I’m Tired of Supporting My Husband and His Daughter
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I'm wanting to get help to understand if it's reasonable to stop supporting my husband financially until he gets a job. I imagine there's a lot here, huh? I have every confidence in him that... You shouldn't have any confidence in him. Good morning, good afternoon, good night. This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so grateful that you're joining us.

On this show, we talk about your mental and emotional health, your marriage, your kids, local schools, whatever you got going on in your life. My promise is I'm going to sit with you and we're going to figure out what's the next right move for you, for your family, whatever y'all are working with. If you want to be on this show, this is real people going through hard stuff. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291.

Leave a message and we'll holler back at you or go to johndeloney.com slash ask A-S-K. All right, let's go right down the street here in Nashville, Tennessee and talk to Christine. Hey, Christine, what's up?

Hey, good morning, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call. Of course. Thanks for calling. Thanks for getting up early with us. What's up? Absolutely. So I am hoping to get some help with making the next right move. Quickly getting into my question, I'm wanting to get help to understand if it's reasonable to stop supporting my husband financially until he gets a job. I imagine there's a lot here, huh?

There's a ton. Yeah. Let it rip. Let it rip. Okay. So, um, by trait, he's an accountant. Um, and a couple of years ago he transitioned into the mortgage industry and became a branch manager. That's been a rough couple of years, huh?

Oh, it was. It was. Yeah. And in August of 22, decided that it was no longer a healthy place to be. So it's the mortgage industry. And he spent the last couple of years trying to figure out what the next great job is for him. And unfortunately, there just hasn't been a lot of progress. So as an accountant over the last three years,

in one of the most bananas job markets in the history of the United States. Where in many places it was a sign-up sheet, right? It was like to get a job.

And I know that's not the case across the board, but for a licensed accountant, for somebody who knows how to manage numbers, good God almighty. And he quit, I was going to say, the last two years or so, it's been a bloodbath in the mortgage industry, but 22, it was still raining mortgages. So he quit when this thing was hot to trot, right?

Well, it started slowing down in June and by August things had really just for him dried up. Okay. But more than that, it was just sucking the life out of him. Sure. And he was miserable. So we agreed it was time for plan B. But he jumped off the boat without just into the lake. He didn't have another boat to jump into, right?

Correct. Yep. He tried the e-commerce world for about six or seven months, actually more like a year. What does that mean? Like buying and selling, reselling eBay stuff? Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. So he just watches a lot of Instagram reels. Yeah. Yeah. So have you sat down and told him I no longer respect you? Yes. Okay. How'd that go? Um,

He understood. Okay. He apologized, recognized the failure in providing for the family and needing to find a job and turn things around. How have y'all paid the bills the last three years? Me. Okay.

Yeah, so I am the sole income for our family. He has a daughter and we are not receiving any child support from his ex-wife. So everything is sitting on me financially from end to end. Is she not your daughter also? No. I mean, she's my stepdaughter, but no, she's not my daughter biologically. How long have y'all been married?

A little over 10 years. So you've had a youngster living with you for 10 years and you don't consider her your daughter? I do. The relationship is really strange. She's got a lot of trauma with her mom, so she doesn't trust women. And her dad is the end-all, be-all. And so we're more like friends than she's my daughter.

Not for lack of trying. It's just the circumstance. We'll let that be another call. That'd be another call. You can call for that. That's a whole nother thing. So go back to your question again. What are you asking? I'm trying to figure out if it's reasonable to stop supporting my husband, to cut up the credit card, to cut up the debit card. And, you know,

almost force him to go get a job at Home Depot or something like that to help bring in income. So we'll actually support himself as well. So the answer is you can do whatever you want. You're an adult, you're grown up, right? I would suggest that is essentially an in-home divorce. Okay. That is you choosing to formalize the separation that has already taken place.

And it wouldn't be a legal formalization, but it would be a financial formalization. These are your bills. That is your kid. This is my house. Yeah. And I don't want to do that. But then the next step is he won't, right? Forcing him is not going to work. It hasn't yet. You've tried all sorts of ways. I can almost guarantee it. And I don't know any...

couple in this situation where the wife has lost the amount of respect you've lost. And I'm trusting you that it's not about a dollar amount. It's about like, this is three years and like you said, fine, you don't have your dream job, but like you haven't been working at Home Depot and then going to throw boxes at Walmart until midnight and then getting up at 5 a.m. to drive Uber to make and then getting up the next day. Just as I know men across the country get up and grind it out on behalf of their families. Forget their dream job. Forget their purpose and passion or whatever other

BS that is on Instagram. Like they get up and they make things happen. They mow lawns. Then they go clean up the church. I remember my dad being a policeman who made hardly anything. And then we clean the church on the weekends and then we go mow lawns. And even like, you do what you got to do. And, um, I've never met a couple in your situation where your sex life is great.

where y'all are exercising together or going for walks or hikes or your dating life is great. You get what I'm saying? So it's just like the whole relationship's in ash. Yeah. And so it sounds like you're at an or what moment, so I guess I'd ask you, are you done being married to him? Not at all. Okay. I have every confidence in him that... You shouldn't have any confidence in him. Well, I was going to say that when he does something, you know...

He does it well. I just- Yeah, like what he's doing right now is nothing and he's doing that remarkably well. Well, that is true. That is true. Here's what happens. People in your situation often want to own part of reality. They want to hold on tight to this image that this is a good man. He's a good guy. It's just been three or four years since he's had a job. He just plays a lot of video games and lets his wife get up and go to work while he's still in bed every day.

and then come home and make dinner three nights a week or four nights a week and like whatever. So there's, and then always has a scheme, right? You want to hold like, no, he's a good man. He loves me, whatever. And on the other hand, he completely abdicated his responsibility to provide for his daughter, provide for his wife, to do anything remotely contributing to the household. And what I want to tell you is that you only holding part of reality. The reality is behavior is a language. Your husband said, I'm out.

I was afraid you were going to tell me that. Until you rest in that. Because now you have impetus to act. You have to do something. Actually, you don't have to do anything. You can live like millions of couples do, which is a completely lifeless, bloodless marriage. Yeah, yeah. Where you watch TV and scroll and he watches TV and pornography and he's just waiting to get the girl out of the house and he found somebody to pay the bills.

Because, by the way, he probably doesn't want to be in his skin right now either, does he? No, not at all. I don't think so. Is he struggling from depression? I'm assuming he hadn't gone to see somebody, right? No, he hasn't. Okay. I think there's an element of it there. What does he do all day? Well, it's really weird. So, I guess technically, he has a job.

But he hasn't been paid for anything that he's done. And so I'm in my office. He has a hobby. Yes. Yes. I'm in my office upstairs. He's in his makeshift office in the bonus room, doors closed. I don't know what he does. I don't hear him on the phone. If I walk in to ask him a question or whatever, he's sitting at his computer, but I don't know what he's doing.

There's no tangible evidence when I ask him about this deal that closed, what's it look like getting paid. Christine, there's no deal. You know there's no deal. Yeah. You know that. Yeah. And I think in some ways you're letting the closed door keep you from the conversations that you know you need to have.

And I just don't know how to have the conversation a different way. It's like, it's not that many of them. So I heard, um, man, she really challenged me on this. I heard Dr. Becky Kennedy say recently, a boundary is something that requires nobody else to do anything. A boundary is for you. It's a declaration of what you're going to do. And I think that you're at an either or moment either. I love him. I'm not getting divorced. I'm married to a guy that won't work.

I'm married to a guy that is giving a yet another troubled picture to his daughter of what marriage looks like. But this is a guy married, partridge in a pear tree. I'm going to make the best of it. I'm going to go on about my life. That's option A. Option B is I've tried every conversation statement. I've tried dressing in sexy things. I've tried these kind of pseudo never again conversation. I've tried everything. So I'm at the end of my line here.

So you get a job by this date, and by job, I mean there's a direct deposit happening in our joint checking account, or you are choosing to leave. I don't know another option because right now you're choosing misery by sitting in the middle. Yeah. And you're worth more than being miserable all the time. He is too, by the way. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Have you ever asked him, hey, do you want to be married to me?

That was actually a conversation I was planning on having this weekend. Yeah. And here's what I would do. I would write down your conversation points. Okay. And be very clear about using I statements. Yeah. And you probably heard me say that a million times and I know it gets hard when it's something's like this. Yeah. But if you say I'm tired and I'm getting the message loud and clear, you don't want to be married to me anymore.

I'm ready to go. Like, if that's what you want, I'm ready to have that next step conversation. It's going to break my heart, but I'm not going to hold you here anymore. And I have to have something different in my home. I have to have a husband that contributes that I can anchor into also. Okay. And for whatever it's worth, um, I know often women know this intellectually, but just from just speaking from my guts, um,

I don't know that it can be overstated how much dull-eyed men walking around have been told explicitly, implicitly, it's the air we breathe, that you... I mean, the question is, what are you worth? That's the question. And men answer that with a number. I am worth this much. I make this much. Not I make furniture, not I make people...

uh have more peaceful lives i make this many dollars and so i'm not defending him but i'm providing a context that sometimes when a wife grabs her husband and says i don't care about the number i care about watching the man i love have no purpose and ultimately the house is is is the life is leaving this home because the life has left you so i don't care what the number is right now i don't know what your financial situation is that can be a whole other call but i don't care what the number is right now i'm assuming you'll have money for groceries

But you got to do something. You have to go regain purpose. And for most people, regain purpose is done in tiny steps, tiny wins. I'm going to go get a job at Home Depot. I'm going to show up on time. And I'm going to wash my clothes and put on my uniform. And I'm going to help other people have better days. I'm going to go work at Walmart from...

8 o'clock p.m. till 2 a.m. I'm going to put on headphones and I'm going to listen to podcasts and I'm going to throw boxes. I'm going to stock shelves so that some exhausted mother comes in off her night shift at 6 a.m. and she can get the food she needs and she can get back to her kids. I'm going to go do that. I'm going to go provide some value somewhere. The money will follow, but maybe sit down and say, I know you're not making what you used to and I know you feel trapped and yada, yada, yada, but forget the money. I'm watching my husband lose purpose and this has to happen.

But at the end of the day, here's your boxed in, Christine, and I want you to unbox yourself. And that's either accepting what it is, making peace with it and deciding I'm not going to complain and whine about it. This is what it is, what it is. Or here's my line. And then your husband gets to make a terrifying choice. Is he in or is he out? And if he's going to be in, here's what that means very clearly.

Let me know how that conversation goes, Christine. And if you all have that conversation and he wants to give me a call and ask for next steps, I'm happy to walk alongside him too. Thank you so much. We'll be right back.

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and every time we launch this event, tickets sell out fast, so hurry up. Get on it, ramsaysolutions.com slash events, or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on the tubes or on podcast. All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas, and talk to Fletcher. Hey, Fletcher, what's up? Hey, how's it going? Doing great, brother. How are you, man? Good, good. Can I give you some context? You can do whatever you want, man. Cannonball.

So when I was, from the time I was maybe 13 to 18 or 19, I struggled with porn about like most guys do, I guess. And I was able to get on top of that. And fast forward till now, I'm 23 now.

And, uh, my girlfriend and I have, uh, of three years or I'm, I'm wanting to get engaged to her by the end of the year and get married next year. Awesome. And, um, I've had a couple times of, uh, struggling with that again in the relationship. And I've been super transparent and honest with her about all that. And we talk about everything and, um,

she tends to be more of a insecure person anyway, and that's not made her feel super safe. And, you know, I just want to make sure that everything is as it should be as we go into a marriage and we're not going to, I don't want to bring any issues into the marriage. Does that make sense? Oh, you're going to bring plenty, dude. You'll bring tons of issues. Most of which you don't even know about yet. And she will too.

And so I want you to exhale on that one. Marriage is two people agreeing, come what may, we'll be right here. And when we turn this corner together and you realize your dad wasn't who you thought he was or her mom wasn't who she thought she was or whatever, like, I'll be right here. And when you get sick and when you go through challenges and when you struggle with addictions, I'll be right here. So how can I help you today?

I just don't want to bring that particular issue. I know we're going to keep growing up and everything, but I can't afford to make her feel like that. I don't want her to settle for someone who would still deal with that, which I don't feel like I do, but I just want her to feel safe and heal that trust that's been damaged before.

I feel like there's a question beneath this question. Because, I mean, cutting to it, you struggle with pornography as a teenager. And you were a teenager during the years when it was the Wild West, when moms and dads just gave their kids cell phones. Like, gave them open access to the World Wide Web in one of the most insane parenting shifts in the history of humanity.

And me growing up, you had to find somebody who had a dad who had a playboy or a penthouse. And now every pornographic, everything of all time ever is in a cell phone. And parents just hand them to their 13 and 14 and 15-year-old kids. It's madness. It's insanity. Yeah. But listen, bro, you're a child from 13 to 18. Let yourself off the hook. Relax. Okay? Don't go to war against your teenage self, your kid. All right?

You bringing in self-hatred, I'm more concerned about that. Let me put it that way. I'm more concerned with you going into your marriage thinking you're gross or something's wrong with you. The second thing is, let's just be honest. Is that cool? Just you and me and a couple million people listening? You're always going to be interested in seeing beautiful naked people. Always. And so beating yourself up about that, it's madness. Don't do that.

There are beautiful, attractive people everywhere, all over. It just is and is. It's that next step, dude, when you decide to log in and click on it, right? Right, right. And you can set up systems. You can set up accountability. Whatever the things you got to do, you can set those things up so that you don't do that thing. Yes, sir. You get what I'm saying? So that part...

That part is something we can work through. You're not a bad guy. I don't think you're evil. I don't think you're a terrible person. But what's beneath this is something I want to dig into more. What's the thing beneath the thing? Is she having doubts about marrying you because you looked at pornography before?

- No, she's all on board. We're both on the same page, but just looking back on those times, I know really hurt her, you know? And I just don't want to do that again. - Okay, then I'm gonna tell you something crazy, all right? You have a pen and paper, write this down. - Okay. - Don't. You know what I mean? - Right. - If she truly forgives you, then you need to do the hard work of forgiving yourself.

You messed up. You violated y'all's shared trust. She said pornography is infidelity as far as I'm concerned, and it makes me feel less than. And you said, I hear you. And it sounds like a couple of times you broke that trust. And you're a courageous 23-year-old. Most 23-year-olds are just a ball of hormones and cowardice. You're not that. You went and told her, hey, I messed up, and I'm sorry.

And you had to deal with the consequences, which is her telling you that breaks my heart, it makes me feel less than, it makes me feel not beautiful, whatever she said. Right. And if she says, I forgive you, I still want to marry you, then you need to stop carrying those bricks around. Yeah, she's been nothing but what she should be. She's been nothing but loving and supportive. Okay, so why do you hate Fletcher?

I think when I was younger, you know, like you're saying, there wasn't a lot of talking about all that, you know, with parents and everything. And definitely didn't feel like guys were dealing with that anyway. Here's the thing. You also grew up in a generation where 99% of sex ed came from pornography.

It's how it's because parents sure as hell weren't having that conversation because they were raging cowards and they either didn't know how to do it or they refused to go get the tools to do it. So they had this awkward super talk one day and then called it good or they never had that talk. They put a pamphlet on, you know, in your backpack and said, go on about your day. Or they outsourced it to some 25 year old youth minister who, you know,

Don't get me started, dude. So here's the thing. You were set up to fail as a 13-year-old. And your parents may be amazing and wonderful, but most parents handled this terribly. Okay? It is what it is what it is. But here we are. Now, your adventure moving forward is to learn how to not blush when you hear the word penis. To be able to stand in front of your wife and say, this is all of me. Do you still love me? Because I love you.

And to be able to have frank and fun and erotic and hilarious and awkward conversations with your wife about sex, and nobody taught you about that. And so you're going to have to fumble through it, but keep committing. I'm going to mess this up. We're going to screw this up. Let's try it again. Let's try it again. Let's try it again. Do you get what I'm saying? Yes, sir. I like it. But man, I don't think you're a bad guy, Fletcher. In fact, I think you're one of the good guys. Thanks. And you're going to struggle with the idea of pornography probably for the rest of your life. And so you...

I mean, you'll get old and you don't care. But when I say struggle is you're always, I mean, it's like being an alcoholic and they just are not alcoholic, but it's like having struggling with alcohol. And then all of a sudden, a couple of computing companies give you an endless stream of a super insane alcohol and put it in your pocket and say, you have to have this at work. You have to have this for your social life. You have to have this for everything. And by the way, don't drink, right? It's madness. It's madness. Yeah.

Um, so it might be, you're not going to have a personal computer. You're just going to have your work laptop. That's all you're going to have at the house. It might be that you get one of those accountability software programs and you give it to one of your buddies. You give it to your wife. It might be that the next time you get, you, you find yourself like starting to scroll and wanting to go down, um, to find some pornography on your phone or on your, on your computer, you stop and you say, okay, what's going on in my life? Do I feel lonely?

Do I feel tired? Do I feel bored? Do I need to release? Do I feel super horny? Like, what am I feeling right now? And let that be, be curious about it. When you go into judgment and you go into just that dark shame and then your body has to do what it's got to do to try to feel better real quick, right? Yeah, that's true. So the thing that has helped me eating junk food, which is one of my great vices is

is right when I'm about to grab yet another handful of cookies is to ask, am I actually hungry? What else is going on in my life? Almost always when I'm just grabbing junk food, I've got some sort of relationship challenge, whether it's with my wife, my kids, my parents, my work colleagues. I got something relational going on. And it was such a revelation to figure that out. Do you get what I'm saying? Yes, sir. So track it back. Track it back. Every time you're about to click on something, just stop and go, okay, what's going on in my life?

But I'll tell you this, no one has ever gotten permanently better by hating themselves into behavior change. You have to decide your worth, not poisoning your mind and blowing out the hedonic parts of your brain and super charging your sexual appetite in a way that no human on the planet can satisfy. Thank you. Is that fair? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Do you trust that girl that you're about to marry? Yeah. Does she say she loves you? So much. Yeah. Okay.

Then if she's someone who tells you the truth, I want you to believe that. And I want you to be sad for a minute. Maybe you write 13-year-old you a letter and say you're about to go through six years of unfettered access to the most vile, crazy, supercharged, bananas things in human history. And you're a kid and you shouldn't have gotten access to that. And I'm sorry that the world did this to you. But now that I'm an adult, I'm going to take control of this thing.

Yes. Is that fair? Let that little kid off the hook, man. He's a kid. He's 14 years old. 16 years old. Right? As a society, we don't let those kids smoke cigarettes and drink beer because they're kids. So it doesn't help anybody to get to be 23 years old and turn around and yell and scream at them because there was a lack of adult supervision in their life. And there was some really supercharged algorithms that targeted them and took their souls from them. I'm not going to blame a 16-year-old for wanting to see naked girls. I'm not going to

Blame a 16 year old for being curious about sex because nobody else in their world's talking about it I'm not gonna be cured. I mean be upset with a 16 year old who's wants to see what naked men look I'm not gonna get mad at that. They're 16. I expect adults to be adults and right now they're not and by the way adults are like No, I don't care. Do you let's get my kids a phone? It's fine. It's just like it's not this is what we get We get 23 and 24 year olds who want to get married and they hate themselves

for things they did when they were 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, and whatever because nobody helped with boundaries. That's what we get. As adults, man, we got to do better. We just do. Fletcher, thanks for the call, brother. Let me know when y'all get engaged. We'll be rooting for you. I think your future fiance, your future wife is marrying one of the good guys. Blessings to you, brother. We'll be right back.

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Pay me a picture here.

Um, so over the last couple of years, there's a lot of behaviors, um, that my wife has experienced in the house and with me that causes calls for concern. Uh, some of them are, she's had a lot of weight loss and no appetite. Um, I have witnessed her, um, like hitting at herself, like in her arm, like she's in pain. Um, something's bothering her. I've seen her hit her face. Um, I've seen bruising on her. Um,

Um, she locks the house continuously. There's tape over closet doors. Uh, she puts barricades up inside the pantry. Um, is she using not to my knowledge? No. Um, she on any sort of prescription medication.

The only prescription medication that I recall, and this was about a year ago, is she was taking Topamax for migraines. And there was lots of calls for concern because of some of her behaviors. My daughter confronted her with it, and I did too as well, and I don't believe she's still taking that. But I do believe it had some impact on her. Okay. Based on what you're telling me...

How old are you guys? How old are you? How old is she? I'm 53. She's 56. Okay. And this is all sudden and new? This hasn't been going on for 23 years? Not for 23 years. Me and my daughter have talked about it. She's brought up things in the past growing up that kind of like small indicators that some of this, some tendencies were there with the paranoia and the concern that, you know,

that other people were doing things to her or she's always walked around, you know, scared to death of what other people think about her. Um, but here are the last two to three years, it's gotten worse. And then here recently, it's,

that I was out of town one weekend for work, and I had my son come and stay out of concern for her safety, for her. And while he was there, he witnessed it firsthand, and he confronted me about calling the police because he felt like he needed to call the police with some of the behaviors. Okay. And one of the examples was there were some lights outside, and she swore up and down it was people stalking the house. Sure. Okay. So there's...

and the nerd word is decompensating so it's you're just watching somebody um essentially turn to ash or a pillar of salt right in front of you right they're becoming a shell of who they were and descending into um i guess the crass way to say it is descending into madness they're they're experiencing a world that objectively doesn't exist but to them is very very real correct okay and i have tremendous i've sat with those folks and i've sat with people

I mean, holding their hand with them, clenching me as though there is somebody with a hatchet coming at us and there's nothing there. And so my compassion for folks in her situation run very, very deep. Okay. I also understand that the perception of, let me say it this way.

You as a husband, how long you been married? 20, 30 years? 30. Okay. 30 years. There's a sense that, um, and this isn't to call you out. This is to give you peace. There's a sense that, um, a, these things sometimes happen by degrees and it's kind of like seeing an old friend from high school that suddenly gained a hundred pounds. They don't recognize it. But when you see him, you're like, Oh my gosh. Right. Or the opposite. They've lost a hundred pounds for them. It was just,

a couple ounces a month for the last 30 years. And so this might be happening by degrees and you're just picking up extra weight because it's kind of your life. But your son shows up for a week and he's like, whoa, dad, mom is not safe. So there's that. But there's also, here's the other side. You're not a bad guy. You're not an unattentive husband if your wife is using and you don't know.

So I want you to, I want you to, I want you to free yourself from, no, I'm confident that's not true. And I want you to put everything on the table right now as a possibility. Okay. Right. Okay. So give yourself some peace. If, if she's somehow got a hold of some medications, some drugs, and she's using, and you don't know it, that doesn't make you a bad or unattentive guy. Okay. Sometimes people who struggle with deep, deep, profound paranoia, uh, are extraordinary at hiding.

Because in their souls, they have to because nobody else knows what's going on. Okay. Okay? So I tell you that to tell you. You are at a place now, I'm just telling you professionally, she desperately needs you, the man who loves her, to intervene on her behalf. And what that looks like is a direct conversation. This ends today. You're going to go. You can come with me or someone's going to come pick you up. You get to choose. But you're going today for a psyche vow.

Okay. And that's an end of a conversation. And it has to be done in a way, and sometimes people can do it by themselves. So I've done it for people, right? When they think, you know, no, I can manipulate my husband, I can manipulate my wife, and I show up to the house, I'm like, yeah, yeah, manipulate me because I don't care. I don't have a stake in this, but you are going. Or sometimes people get their family together. You've probably seen some of those intervention kind of shows, but it's basically a declaration, this ends today. Okay. Here's the...

Depending on what state you're in and depending on any number of other factors, sometimes people can walk in and the standard for a state to take away somebody's civil rights, to say you are no longer in control of your life, we are. That standard should be and is very, very high. So sometimes adults will get angry.

Like committed, they'll be in an institution for three or four days, and then it will occur to them, I can just leave. I'm an adult. And often they're right. What does that look like when she's still holding a job and has for the last couple years without incident? I can almost. And that's the confusing part. Yeah, I mean, you don't know what they're dealing with at work either.

Well, I know she's a healthcare professional. Okay. So she helps others at an assisted living, nursing home, caretaker, and has for her entire career. And my daughter is also a healthcare professional as well. And we've had the same conversation is she still holds a job. She still goes to work every day and everything seems fine. But as soon as she comes home, it's like,

She does all the things that I'm describing, and that's where I struggle. Well, I would say two things. Number one, that's yet one more data point that she may be, to put it nicely, borrowing from a pharmaceutical cabinet if she's got access to other people's pharmaceutical drugs, and you're watching her rapidly change in front of you. Because one of the things I want to know if I'm doing an assessment on somebody is do they have access, and if they're a healthcare professional, the answer is undoubtedly yes.

Yes, correct. That's number one. Number two, people who struggle from extreme paranoia sometimes are experts in compartmentalization because they think they're running a game on everybody else. Not a game, but they're running a – they're having to survive. So think of it like a Sherlock Holmes episode where he has to dress up and go and play a part. Right. And so it can go on for years. And here's the other thing I would tell you.

Without a proper clinical assessment, you at home trying to armchair quarterback it, you're watching her get worse in front of you. That's my fear is it's getting worse. And in all honesty, I believe she thinks I'm the enemy. That's great. That makes sense. That is okay. And when you tell her you have to go see somebody, you've got to go get a clinical assessment because I'm losing my wife, you will be the devil incarnate. And you have to love her enough to walk through those hot coals.

That's my fear. I mean, here's the other thing, brother. What's the other side of it? Well, that scares me too. Yeah. I mean, it's almost a no-win because it's what's worse. Choose your heart. Can I be real crass with you? Yeah. Or not crass, just real direct. You've got to choose your heart. You're going to choose for a season to have your wife, who is not well, think she hates you. She doesn't.

But to confirm, when you think everyone's out to get you and you find out somebody else is noticing your behaviors, it just confirms it. It makes it worse. It's like gasoline on a fire. Right. Right? Except, et tu, Brute? Like, not you too, right? Like, you're my husband. You don't see this? And so, yes, expect an amplification of this a hundredfold and it all to be channeled on you. The other side of it is often when somebody is unspooling like this, they know it. They feel it.

And it often ends with loved ones planning a funeral. That's the scary part, but I do know that living like this now is not sustainable. Correct. And so anytime I'm talking to somebody, I'm always looking at trend lines. Everybody has bad weekends, bad days, bad whatever. That's fine. This is something that is on a negative trend line. You stepped out and had a third party show up, and your son went, oh, my Lord, we've got to get her some help.

So unless your son is a hypochondriac, and I say that in a funny way, not in a clinical way, but like he's overdramatic and you know your kid. But it sounds like when he said it, you were like, I know, you're right. Well, I know he's right, and he did confront her with that. And she immediately replied, I don't have any mental problem. I don't need mental help. But we all, me, him, and my daughter all believe that she needs something. Okay, so I would not use the word mental help.

I would have all three of you. Are they adult kids? Adult kids. They don't live at home. We all live in different areas. Perfect. I think all three sit down and say, we love you, and we know that you're not well, and everything about you tells us that you're terrified and you're scared of your own home and your own skin. We want you to go talk to somebody. I'm fine. I'm not going to do that. Well, here's the deal. Today you go, and I'm willing to risk you being upset with me and have you involuntarily committed, or I'll go with you and we'll get you checked in.

So what does that look like? Do I just take her to the hospital? Well, if you, yeah. Or prearrange it? Yeah, you prearrange it. And you can go to an inpatient where they can do a 48-hour or 72-hour hold. If she signs up for it, then that's a whole other track. But you'll have to wait, unfortunately. You'll have to wait until something bad happens if you're going to have her involuntarily committed.

You have to wait until she flies off the handle or starts banging on stuff or hitting herself or stuff like that. Because, again, that threshold is very, very high. Right. Because they don't want old grouchy husbands who thinks their wife is annoying in the middle of a football game to get committed. So that line is very high.

And I've struggled with that too. Cause even my son, I've told my son if she ever pulls off one of these again, that I would do that. And she disappears into the back room or to the bathroom and starts to step crying and screaming and yelling and like she's in pain or something. And I don't know if that's the right time to do it because 20 minutes later, she's back to normal. It seems like for a little bit and then she'll lay on the couch for 30, 45 minutes. And that's right.

It's exhausting. Something happens or, yeah. It's exhausting. Correct. And it just wears me out. And I know, and I probably should have mentioned this earlier, is she does been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. Mm-hmm.

And I don't know if that's tied to it or not, but I think sometimes that causes some pain. And that pain, she, in her mind, it's being caused by someone. Right. But fibromyalgia is often a, almost, I don't want to say almost universally. It's been a minute since I read the latest, but it's almost universally. It's rarely diagnosed in somebody that doesn't have existing mental health disorders. Right.

Right. Does that make sense? And I'm sure there's a chicken or egg component to it, but chronic pain often is highly comorbid with other more significant challenges. It's your body's way of saying, I'm trying to get your attention. We're not okay. Right. We're not safe. Okay. And it could be relationship challenges. It could be work challenges. It could be any number of things going on.

Right. But I think it's sitting down saying the time has come. I love you enough to risk you not liking me, being mad at me, hating me, whatever you think you're going to say, but you got to go get some help. Do you have any, and I say this very delicately, do you have anybody at, know anybody at her workplace where you could sit down and talk? I do not. Okay. I would be stunned if they don't know something's up.

She's done well with this one. Now, I know previous to this one, there was a couple instances in previous work where, and she wouldn't tell me everything, where she left the work. She actually got in a leadership position and then something, it seemed like it was going south, a lot of the paranoia stuff that she would bring up, but then all of a sudden she left, took another position.

And then within a month, she was at home for a couple of weeks. And then she came back and told me she, there were some differences. And then she left and then got this one. And she's had this one for about a year and a half. Okay. My guess is it's unspooling fast too. Okay. That's, I mean, I mean, all, and again, all we're doing is following patterns and trends here. Um, I think you want to validate her lived experience. I don't want you to say, I don't think you're hurting. I don't think you're scared. All those are very, very real.

I think you use I words a lot. I can't sit here as your husband of 30 years and listen to you go in the bathroom and scream and then collapse. I, as your husband of 30 years, I, as your son, cannot listen to you hitting yourself in the face, hitting yourself on the arms, screaming, yelling. I can't be here to watch you falling apart like this and hurting like this.

I'm going to call and sometimes it's threatening. I'm going to call somebody and they're going to come pick you up or we're going to get in the car. We're going to go down and get you get the help you need. I don't think you're crazy, but I think you are hurting so bad. It's cruel of me to let this continue to go on like this. I'm just telling you, Rick, once you get on that roller coaster, it is indeed a roller coaster. And we are playing a two year, five year, 10 year game even.

You're going to risk not being liked. You're going to risk her saying evil and awful things to you. You're going to risk her writhing and having no place for that pain to go. And so you, you're the, you're, you get, gets dumped on you. That's for sickness and health for better than worse. I hate that, but it is, but I promise you, I promise you it's better than planning a funeral. I promise you. Thanks for the call, my brother. Thanks for the call. You call anytime and happy to talk to her too. I can be of an encouragement to her. We'll be right back.

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All right, we are back. I want to read some questions from recent money and marriage event. These are questions that people can drop in an anonymous box, an anonymous box. I'm great at talking. Here's a couple of questions. How do I tell my wife of over 10 years that I still feel inferior and compare myself to her former husband and boyfriend, but she still makes me feel special? I just don't know how to get over those other men.

Here's another one. How do I rebuild trust after an affair? I would love some steps to learn to trust again. Here's another one. I am broken and not feeling like I deserve or can be fixed. I cope by trying to give to everyone else, which helps me feel a little better, but I still feel depressed at times and can get angry with myself and others. Is there even one thing I can do to help me? Here's one more. What do you do when you've both been married before? How do you make yourself stop feeling like you're plan B or plan C?

And this is strange for me personally, just because I get questions all the time on Instagram. By the way, I don't answer social media questions ever like this. You get tons of comments and things like that. And for whatever reason, there's a distance in those questions. I don't know if a person wrote them or if a computer wrote them. They come just across in the same font. There's something about reading these note cards, people's... I'm thumbing through them if you're just listening here, but it's written in people's handwriting. And some of this handwriting...

Looks clean and some of this handwriting looks desperate. And I know I'm reading into that, but it's just heavy. And so if you're asking yourself questions like this, this is going to sound bananas, but I want you to turn off the podcasts. And I want you to have a spark from a YouTube show. I want you to put down the books. By the way, I have a podcast. I got a YouTube show. I write books.

Those are good for awareness. They're good for step-by-step plans. But when you're asking yourself, I'm feeling broken and I don't feel like I can or deserve to be fixed. I had an affair and I don't know how to rebuild trust in myself and my partner. And I need someone to walk with us step-by-step-by-step. How do you stop feeling like plan B or plan C? Because if both of us, if both of our lives had worked out as we'd originally planned and we wouldn't know each other, we'd still be married to our original people. Like if you're there, can I recommend, please go see a counselor?

Especially men we all go see a therapist, please And if the therapist is terrible Go a couple of sessions and go somewhere else and ask for action steps and I know as well as anybody does. Um That sometimes it's cost prohibitive 250 bucks an hour cash 175 an hour cash and you're trying to figure out how to pay your light bill these days. I get it or um

It's yeah, I would love to see you. Our next available appointment is in seven months and you live in some rural community and that's all you got. You got no access or you can go into a local church and sit with somebody who's completely untrained. They don't know what they're doing and they, they beat you over the head with kind of out of context Bible verses and you just walk, you stumble out into the light thinking something you're even worse off than you. I get it. I get it there.

This is one of the reasons why I support a program like BetterHelp where within 24 hours they're going to talk to you and they're going to see you. And they can do couples counseling and all that kind of stuff. If you can't get into a local therapy place in your local community, in your town, if you can't afford it, please call my friends at BetterHelp. They'll answer the phone. And if you don't like the therapist, if it's not going to work for both of you, then you can switch.

But please make a commitment to yourself. If this is you, if you're walking around feeling like you can't be fixed, if you're walking around thinking, I'm always going to be a plan B. I'm always going to be a plan C. I don't know how to flip that. Please, please go see somebody. Please go see somebody. Whether it's a local therapist, whether it's a local trained pastor, whether it's my friends at BetterHelp, please reach out. You are worth being well and you're worth waking up full of joy in the skin you were born in. Thank you so much for being with us on this show.

You are worth being well. I like the call. Love you guys. Bye.