Mummies and Abduction: Michael & The Rogue Archaeologist | Tim Alberino
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This is Dr. Jordan B. Peterson. Watch Parenting, available exclusively on Daily Wire+. We're dealing with misbehaviors with our son. Our 13-year-old throws tantrums. Our son turned to some substance abuse. Go to dailywireplus.com today. I had this intuition.

There's something under that pyramid in Peru. These three-fingered, tridactyl beings. The largest, most bizarre elongated skulls. Let me tell you the most compelling thing though. Two of the mummies are pregnant. Maybe there is a crypto-terrestrial, non-human race, species

inhabiting planet Earth, probably subterranean. - It sounds crazy. - It sounds absolutely crazy. Even according to the Smithsonian's own records, there were the remains of people of unusually large stature were discovered. - What does it mean for us? What does it mean for everything from our human nature to salvation history if that actually happened? - Well, those are the essential questions. - Three-fingered mummies, giants, and alien abductions.

Three things I don't usually talk about on the show, but I had a guest on. Boy, was it a month, two months ago? We talked about all sorts of crazy, wild discoveries, insane conspiracy theories, some of which might be proven true. And I said, "I have to have this guest on again." That would be Mr. Timothy Alberino. Mr. Alberino, thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me. Last week, we left on a cliffhanger. I don't usually do repeat guests on this show.

I've only done it if there's a really intense controversy caused by it or now in this case Because you left us all on a cliffhanger. I think we're talking about abductions or something like that. You said alright Well, anyway, I got to go to Peru to study mummies. I said well you got to come back once you're back from Peru You're back from Peru. I'm back. I have a barrage of questions for you And I also have a lot of cigars for us. Let's go. Can I offer you? I think we put a couple over there by your table and

This is how you begin a good conversation right here. I agree, especially because you're talking about discoveries that pertain to megaliths, ancient structures, forgotten civilizations.

I have a discovery here for all of you. That would be the Mayflower Dream. This is our third blend. We have the Mayflower Dawn. That's our morning cigar. The Mayflower Dusk, that's evening cigar. This is the third and final piece of the blend. Double Maduro, Pennsylvania Broadleaf wrapper, Mexican San Andres binder, Nicaraguan long filler. I find it delightful. They're not available yet publicly, so you're one of the first people to try it. Excellent. Well, I'm a big fan of this. Is this the Dawn here? That's the Dawn. I

I've smoked probably 10 of these since I saw you last time. I'm glad to hear it. Did you offer any to any of the aliens or the mummies? I did not, no. Okay.

Tell me about Peru. You went down there to study mummies. And the only mummy I can think of in Latin America from some supposedly extraterrestrial being was that little papier-mâché thing that they told us a while ago. It looked like a third-grade art project of E.T. And they said, "This is a mummy of an alien." I looked at it. I said, "That's not even a good forgery of a mummy of an alien." So I had absolutely no belief in this whatsoever. What'd you find? Okay. Well, this is a very long and convoluted saga.

This is a long and convoluted show, so you've got plenty of time. Perfect.

So we're talking about the Nazca Tridactyl beings. That's what they're officially called. That's the ET mummy thing? Yeah. And technically they're not actually mummies, although everybody refers to them as mummies. I refer to them as mummies because in reality they are desiccated corpses. It's a lot easier to say mummy than desiccated corpse. And desiccated corpses, that just means that they're dried out and they have this white powdery substance on their skin.

which is basically the residue of a fossilized algae. Okay. And that contributed to the dehumidification

the body so they're desiccated corpses and they were discovered about ten years ago in 2015 in North of the city of Nazca. Okay in the general vicinity of the Nazca lines of the famous Nazca lines for those of us who are not as educated on the subject what are those the Nazca lines are these geoglyphs that are carved into the soil of the desert

in the Nazca region. And there's different configurations of animals and very straight lines that are carved for, they go for very, I don't know how long they are, some of these straight lines, but they're very impressive. There's figures of people, humanoids, and there's a bunch of different figures carved into the sand there. Nobody knows exactly who carved them, and nobody knows why, because you can only see them from an aerial perspective.

So the big mystery is why would you do this? Why would you go through all this effort? And how could you do this accurately without getting an aerial perspective? What do you mean you could only see it like it's too big or it's... Well, the Nazca lines, so this is the desert and whoever created them could not have had the proper perspective, an aerial perspective from the sky looking down, which clearly these things were carved for that perspective, looking down at them.

And so there's been a lot of conjecture over the years about aliens creating them and things of this nature. I don't think that's the truth of the matter, but it's a mystery. And so now we have an additional mystery to the Nazca Desert with these three-fingered, tridactyl beings, these desiccated corpses. And again, these go back to about 2015.

Now, if there was some design made, some work of art, even if it were from the sky or something, is it possible that just as those were carved into the ground or whatever, that these beings, what you're calling desiccated corpses, I was joking about the paper mache art project, but could it be possible that they're just a work of art, like a sculpture or something like that? It's entirely possible.

However, as I said earlier, this is a very convoluted subject. So in 2015, these things originally came to light around that time, and they were discovered by huaqueros, by grave robbers. And the grave robbers, they revealed some of these desiccated corpses to people

a French explorer, a colleague of mine in Peru, who I have been interfacing with about this. And his name is Thierry Jamin. And he has an organization called the Inkadi Institute, which is based out of Cusco. And Thierry is a remarkable explorer, actually. His objective, the objective of the Inkadi Institute is to discover the lost city of Paititi.

Which is a lost city of the Inca, a fabled lost city of the Inca. We were going to honeymoon there, but we weren't able to get a ticket. So this was their, this is their primary objective. And they've done a lot of work and made a lot of phenomenal discoveries, the Ankara Institute. So they were the first ones to receive, to see these desiccated corpses. But again, the corpses were discovered by men.

- Guaqueros, by grave robbers. - Yeah. - Somewhere in the region north of Nazca. So without getting into the weeds, basically what we're looking at are a few different kinds of, we're gonna call them mummies, even though that's not technically accurate, a few different kinds of mummies. You have small mummies that are about two feet long, and then you have larger mummies that are in the fetal position, and those are four, four and a half feet tall if you were to unravel them out of the fetal position. And,

There's a lot of controversy surrounding this whole situation. This controversy involves the Peruvian Congress, it involves the Ministry of Culture in Peru, the Inkari Institute, the Mexican ufologist Jaime Maussan, and it's become obviously this international story over the last 10 years.

Jaime Maussan, I think in 2003, he unveiled three of these or two of these diminutive mummies in the Mexican Congress. That created a firestorm of intrigue on social media. That's when I became aware of it. Right. I became aware of it actually. I first became aware of these things sometime around 2016.

when the Encati Institute first published some material regarding them. And then I was in Peru on a project in 2018 and 2019. And I was in the desert, not far from the deserts of Palpa, Raunasca. I was actually over by Pisco in Paracas. And it's basically the same swath of desert, right? But that's north of Palpa in Peru. This is one of the driest deserts.

and most inhospitable places on the planet, by the way. I mean, it would be very difficult for anyone to survive there today without modern technology. There's almost no precipitation. This is precisely why these bodies are so well preserved. And not just these bodies, not just the desiccated corpses, but also other kinds of mummies, mummies from the Paracas culture, mummies from the Nazca culture, desiccated corpses, are very well preserved out there.

in that environment. And I was working on a project. We were actually looking for Inca treasure. And we were on a film project, me and my partner, Gary Haven. Gary Haven, by the way, the founder of Curves. Remember Curves? Oh, yeah. And we were exploring this lake out there. It's called Moron. And it's this lagoon out in the desert.

And there was legends of Inca treasure that the Inca had because they would dump treasure. They would, you know, have a ritual ceremony and they would offer treasure into the bodies of water for various reasons. And so we're shooting this film project looking for Inca treasure and other kinds of treasure. And we're driving by this pyramid every day back and forth from the city of Pisco, actually all the way back to Paracas. And I'm looking at this adobe pyramid. Yeah.

And one day as we're driving by it, I had this intuition. There's something under that pyramid. Because oftentimes these ancient sites, what's underneath them is actually more intriguing than what's on the surface. Right. There's almost always, especially if it's a pyramid or megalith, there's something underneath it in almost every case. And so we had procured a state-of-the-art ground-penetrating aerial GPR unit. And this was...

There was only three of these units in the world at the time, and we had one. So this allows you to see underground, basically? That's right, but you can fly it. It operates off of a drone platform. And so this is new technology. Before, you had to drag the GPR across the ground to get the readings. And it was very cumbersome, very laborious, slow process.

Well, if you can fly the GPR, then you can get a much more accurate reading and you can fly around on even terrain. It just opens up a whole new, it opens up new possibilities for GPR work. And we have this unit in Peru. And we have a, with this GPR unit, we have a shallow penetrating radar and a deep penetrating radar. The deep penetrating radar goes down 300 feet and that's used to detect large structures and caverns.

The shallow penetrating radar is much more high resolution. And it goes down about 15 feet. I mean, we can see in the right conditions. We can see a quarter buried 15 feet under the ground. Wow. In the right conditions. Those are perfect conditions. So I had this intuition that there's something under that pyramid. Now, this pyramid is located on what's called the Chongos Necropolis. And the Chongos Necropolis is out there in the middle of the desert. This was the seat...

of the Paracas culture. And the Paracas culture is, I don't know if you've ever seen the Paracas elongated skulls. Have you seen those? Maybe. I actually, I was ready to say no, because half the time you say, have you ever heard or ever seen? I say, I've never heard of that in my life. But I think I might have seen the elongated skulls. Yeah, these are, they're very famous at this point. You can find them all over the internet. But the Paracas elongated, the Paracas people were

were a very, very mysterious culture. And this is going to tie in back to the three-fingered mummies eventually. The Paracas were a very, very enigmatic culture. And they were discovered by the eminent Peruvian archaeologist Julio Tejo.

back in the early 20th century. And there's a few things about this culture that make that, that's very strange. For one thing, they're very diminutive people. They're very small. And they have these accentuated craniums, these elongated skulls. Now, some of these, the elongation of most of the skulls is the result of cranial deformation. Yeah, that's what I assume, which is head binding and head boarding, cradle head boarding.

which means that they artificially elongate the skull. But we're convinced that some of these elongated skulls, some of that elongation is actually a result of a genetic deviation or genetic anomaly.

In the human genome. Why do you think that? If some of them are artificial, why wouldn't they all be artificial? Because the ones that are artificial, the binding of the skull, cranial deformation is done all over the world in the ancient world as an act of emulation. They're emulating something. Yeah, yeah. And I think what they're emulating, whatever it is that they're emulating, has a naturally elongated skull. Okay. And the elongation of the skull...

Again, you see it all over the world. The Egyptians, for example, some of the most famous Egyptian pharaohs had elongated skulls or apparently had elongated skulls like Nefertiti's daughters. But you wouldn't say like in China where they would bind feet. You wouldn't say that the bound feet were emulating some genetic anomaly where a girl's foot was all messed up. Or would you?

I'm not sure in that case, but the reason why I say with the elongated skulls because again There there are very important figures in ancient history who appear to have had elongated skulls like some of the Egyptian arrows Akhenaten for example, but is there a chance that that would be artificial that Akhenaten skull they would have put some sure There's a chance if it's artificial sure and but in Caracas when you have

I've examined these skulls up close. And in fact, we did some genetic testing on them as well. And we got some intriguing results from those tests, from the analysis. And when you examine the elongated skulls, the ones that have cradle headboarding, you can see sometimes, in many cases, you can see the markings where they had the bands because those bands would be pretty tight around the head. And this is done from infancy. Yeah.

Until a certain age, and then once the skull takes the desired shape, then they stop binding it and cradle headboarding it. And you can tell. You can tell the difference. But there are some skulls where there is no indication of artificial cranial deformation. And these skulls happen to be the most accentuated skulls.

elongated skulls, the largest, most bizarre elongated skulls. Like, for example, I'm trying to remember the name of the...

the name of the museum in Lima, there's one of the very first mummies, Paracas mummies that Julio Tejo discovered is one of the most remarkable elongated skull mummies I've ever seen. And it is freakish. I mean, when you walk up and look at this thing, you do not get the impression that you're looking at a human being. Like this is not a member of Homo sapiens sapiens. This is something else. This is like a subspecies of Homo sapiens.

And it is, there's pictures of it online. I don't even know how to reference it exactly, but I have a film that I made with Gary. But this thing is so bizarre. It's not just the elongation of the skull, it's the...

The configuration of the neck bone, of the spinal cord, it's different. And there's a lot of things that, there's a lot of anomalies like these elongated, I didn't plan on talking about elongated skulls here, but the elongated skulls of Paracas, they have more cranial capacity.

In other words, their brains were larger. It's like 30% more, 25 to 30% more cranial capacity inside of their craniums. So that's not empty space. That's brain matter. Their eyes are about, in many cases, the orbital sockets are about 25% larger than a normal human being.

So you have these, not only do they have these elongated skulls, they have extra large orbital sockets, which amounts to extra large eyeballs. And furthermore, we discovered that the Paracas people, we didn't discover it, but we learned that the Paracas culture, they for some reason were predisposed to live under the ground.

This is something that I read in the work of Julio Tejo, an archaeologist, Peruvian archaeologist that I mentioned earlier. He remarked in one of his papers on the Paracas culture that this

civilization had this tendency to be, I think the way he described it was to be a quasi-subterranean, something like that. So they were living under the ground. So you got these tiny people, humongous elongated skulls, gigantic eyeballs living part of the time under the ground.

Okay, that's the Paracas people. So this, remember now going back to the, going back to the Chongos pyramid in the Chongos necropolis, this was the hub of their civilization or at least one of the primary hubs of their civilization. It was a big city at one time. And so...

I had this intuition there's something under this pyramid and we flew our GPR unit around the pyramid and sure enough, in fact specifically the intuition was there's a tunnel under that pyramid. We flew our GPR unit around the pyramid and what did we discover? Not one, two massive intersecting tunnels a hundred feet beneath that pyramid. And these tunnels are so big you could drive a semi-truck through them and they're artificial.

Where do they go? Who knows? We just see them on the GPR images. And by the way, we can render our images in 3D. So we're not just looking at squiggly lines. We actually can get a 3D rendering of the image and on the computer move around it, right, in a 3D space. And these are massive tunnels just shooting out somewhere. Who knows where they go? But somebody constructed them. I mean, this is in the middle of the desert. Could you follow them? Could you fly the unit until the tunnels end? We tried to get into them.

But the problem is on the border of this property, on the border of the necropolis, the necropolis is an archaeological site. Yeah. And bordering this archaeological site, it's all private property.

And so you can't really do anything. You'd have to follow it for miles. - Who knows how long? - And it might go deeper, right? And we were on a shooting schedule, so we couldn't screw around too long trying to get in the tunnels, but we did. We did try and find an entrance for a while. So anyway, going back to the Nazca,

Tridactyl so so Paracas is a little up. No, it's it's further up north on the Peru on the west coast of Peru in the desert Nazca is further south in the desert and then the Paracas and the Nazca people are very Similar some people think that the Paracas the the Paracas the disappearance of the practice culture is a mystery some archaeologists think that the Paracas people became the Nazca people and

And others think that maybe there was some sort of a genocide or something like that, or they just died off. But the Nazca and the Paraks, very similar cultures. The Nazca practiced cradle headboarding, rather cranial deformation, cradle headboarding, head binding, and so forth. And these three-fingered tridactyl beings have elongated skulls. All of them have elongated skulls, or at least the majority of them that I've seen have elongated skulls.

And so there's this strange, and they're elongated skulls, by the way. They've been tested. There's been CT scans done on these things. A battery of scientific analyses have been done. CT scans, x-rays, genetic analysis, dissections by various teams from around the world on these mummies. And one of the things that was determined definitively is that the elongation of the skulls is natural. Huh.

There are no indications of artificial cranial deformation. They're naturally elongated. So you have these bizarre people inhabiting this region of Peru in between 1 and 3,000 years ago. If you include the Nasca culture, going back to the Paracas culture, these... And I should explain that. I don't know if I've said this already, but there's...

Different variety of mummies. Some are two feet tall. Those are the ones that you're referencing that look like dolls. And then there's larger mummies that are in the fetal position. And that's typical of the Nazca culture and the Paracas culture that they would bury their dead in the fetal position because death was like being rebirthed. It was like a rebirth.

So you're in the fetal position in the womb, and when you die, they put you back in the fetal position, and they bury you in that manner. And that's how these things were discovered, the large ones. Okay, so I make a distinction between the ones that look like dolls, that look fake, and the larger ones. And I had the opportunity to go down to...

to Ica, there are approximately 15 of these mummies that have been revealed publicly. I know that there are more because I've interfaced with the people in Peru who are involved in this story. There's more, but publicly speaking, there's 15. Some of them are the smaller variety, some of them are the larger variety. Four of these specimens, both of one large and then three small, are in the possession of the University of Ica.

Okay. In Peru, in Ica, in the same desert region as we've been talking about here. And the professor who's a head of the project studying them, his name is Dr. Roger Zuniga. And he invited me to come down and analyze, examine the specimens that they have in the museum and then interview him. And so last month I was down in Peru, in Ica, and I had the opportunity to see these things up close and to...

and to talk not only to Dr. Zuniga, but the other professors at the University of Ica. And one thing I can tell you

I'm skeptical. Okay, let me get that out of the way right away. Okay, I'm skeptical. I lived in Peru for 10 years. There's a black market for antiquities in South America, especially in Peru and Mexico. Peru and Mexico, I'm always skeptical. Any alien artifacts or anomalous artifacts that come out of Mexico and Peru, my default is I don't believe it. That's my default. And so I refrain from commenting on these things

the Tridactyl, the Nazca Tridactyl beings for 10 years because I'm so skeptical and incredulous as it pertains to these kinds of artifacts. I needed to go and see them for myself. Okay. And I needed to discuss

Them with the professor's and with with the people involved in the story before I was willing to formulate an opinion so you're You're skeptical for ten years about these things. I've been skeptical since they came to my attention Are the three fingered weird-looking mummies real? I don't know You're still hedging so

When I walked up to these specimens, and remind me to tie in because I didn't finish the story about the pyramid thing. - Yeah, yeah. - But when I walked up to the specimens at the University of Ica, they have Maria, which is a large, one of the larger mummies. And then they have Wawita, which is like a very strange mummy. It's an infant with a gigantic head and three fingers. They're all tridactyl, they're all three fingered. And then they have a couple of the smaller ones.

When I walked up to these, they're all there, all four of the specimens. I walked up to Maria first. And I have to tell you, you do get the impression when you're up close to the larger mummies that these were living, breathing beings at one time in the past. That is my sense. Now, am I willing to state definitively that I believe that these things are authentic? No.

But they are compelling the large ones if I put a gun to your head said you got to bet your life savings and your life in fact real or fake you Would lean real on the large ones on the large ones The small ones are kind of a different story for me the small ones that most people are familiar with the small ones Yeah, those I think may be effigies of the large ones or

or fake. They might all be fake. All of them may be hoaxes. If these things are hoaxes, then they're the most elaborate archaeological hoaxes ever perpetrated. I mean, and I'll tell you some reasons why, and I should probably finish what I was saying about the pyramid. - We got time, I have more cigars, we got time. - So let me finish that, and then we'll talk about some of the specifics of the mummies that are, the anomalies, the anatomical anomalies.

I was talking about how I first heard about the three-fingered, the tridactyl beings of Nazca. That's why I went into the story of the Chonkos Pyramid and took that circuitous route all the way back. We were doing the GPR scans on the pyramid, and I was standing next to an archaeologist on my team. He's a Spaniard working in Peru as an archaeologist.

And we're standing there, scans going on, and we're filming some stuff. And he said to me, he said, hey, you guys aren't talking about aliens, are you, in this film? He said, because I don't want to have anything to do with aliens. I don't want to have anything to do with that topic. I'm like, no, no. And we weren't. Remember, we were shooting a treasure hunting show. And I said, no, no, we're not doing anything like that.

And then he proceeds to tell me why he doesn't want me to talk about aliens. And he doesn't want to, you know, be in a film with that sort of content. And he begins to tell me about these three-fingered, tridactyl beings. And this was back in 2018, 2019. And he...

unpack this very interesting story, which I won't go into here. Why not? It's an interesting story. Well, it's very long, and I don't recall all the details. But basically, he was involved early on with the mummies with Terij Amin. He was on his team. He was part of the Inkari team during this period of time when they were working with these mummies, and they still are to this day.

And he was absolute and this guy was very skeptical. Okay. This is a very conventional archaeologist This is not like an ancient aliens guy In fact, he wanted nothing to do with that sort of thing right for his reputation for his career Right and because of experience with these mummies and he told me he looked at me and he said those things are real he said he said I I I know the story I've been there since the beginning and

And I'm telling you they're real. He said, we did the analysis on them, DNA. They've been dissected. That's what I was going to ask. Couldn't you just test to see if it's real DNA or carbon or whatever? They were tested. Okay. So that's when I really became interested in the story, was scanning this pyramid in Chongos. Now, fast forward to my trip here recently in Peru, the DNA analysis that's been done

indicates, and this information is coming from Dr. Roger Zuniga, who's the head of the project in Peru, indicates that 30% of the DNA of the mummies is human. 70% is anomalous. Also, there are some indications of chimpanzee and bonobo DNA. So right there we have a problem. And I believe that's specifically in reference to the larger mummies. Yeah.

Right there we have a problem because if you're hoaxing these things, if you are a walk-in or a grave robber somewhere out there in the desert manufacturing these things, where are you getting bonobo and chimpanzee components? Huh. In Peru. There are no bonobos and chimpanzees in Peru. Those are old world monkeys, apes. I mean, those are only in Africa. They're not in Peru. Peru only has new world monkeys. So...

That right there is very intriguing. These mummies... I thought you were going to say the problem is that, you know, if you get a human and a chimpanzee in a room, even if you get them a lot of drinks and put on Barry White, you're not going to make some other being out of it. That's also a problem. Yeah. No, but from the perspective of a hoaxer...

Why would you go through the trouble to acquire bonobo and chimpanzee components? It doesn't make any sense. So that right there is very, very interesting to me. The fingerprints on these things are horizontal. They have fingerprints and they're horizontal. They're not circular like our fingerprints. So they have very bizarre anomalous fingerprints. But they have fingers. Just that alone is pretty weird. Right. They have three long fingers and three long toes.

They've been subjected to a battery of tests, as I said, the CT scans and the x-rays, and they've been examined by highly credentialed professionals like Dr. John McDowell from the United States, who's a celebrated forensic scientist here in the United States. An award-winning forensic scientist has been involved in this story for a couple of years now.

And all of the scientists from the United States, from Mexico, there's been a team from Japan who've come and done research on these specimens over the last decade. All of them have concluded, without exception, that the biological material that these mummies are using

composed 100% of biological material. In other words, there's no, there's nothing metallic besides the implants, which we'll talk about in a minute. There's no, there's no wires. There's no synthetic glue. There's, there's, there's no plastic. Because even when you say it's 30%,

human and 70% chimpanzee or whatever. When I hear that, I say, okay, well, do you mean like you take one piece of the body and it's 30% and 70%? Or is it like, you know, two arms are human and one leg is chimpanzee? No, that's in regard to the genome. To the actual genome. To the genome. 30% is human, 70% is anomalous. Now,

Now, whether that means that 70% is non-human or some of that 70% simply can't be sequenced, I don't know. Okay. But Dr. Zuniga really reinforced that point with me and told me that, look, we've got 40% DNA commonality with a papaya. Okay. So we're closer to a papaya than we are to these tridactyl beings. Huh. So-

They have the elongated skulls, they have humongous eye sockets, orbital sockets, really large eyes, larger than the Paracas skulls that we were talking about earlier.

And everyone who's looked at them, all of the scientific teams who've looked at them have not found any, this is what they're willing to say at this point, by the way. So they're not willing to come out and say, these are real. But what they're all saying, and what they've been saying, all of the scientific teams that have analyzed the bodies,

They're all saying that we have not found any definitive proof of a hoax. Okay. So that's where this stands scientifically. Okay. There is no proof of a hoax yet. That's what I can say with confidence, okay? Now, McDowell and his team, they were working with Jaime Massan, the Mexican journalist and ufologist. They were on his team, and they did not get access to the small bodies, nor are they very interested in the small bodies themselves.

And I'm not very interested in the small ones either. I tend to think that those are effigies of the larger ones, that those are in fact like dolls of some kind that maybe were buried with the large ones for some ritualistic purpose. But I'm very, very interested in the larger mummies. So then what are they? I don't know. But let me tell you the most, and then we can move off this topic if you want. I want to move off this topic. It's very interesting. Let me tell you the most compelling thing though. Two of the mummies are pregnant.

One of them, Montserrat, she's holding her womb. They didn't realize she was pregnant, but she's in the fetal position and she's sort of covering her womb with her hands. And so someone suspected, wait a minute, she might be pregnant. So they did the CT scan and they discovered she's pregnant and the fetus in her womb looks just like them. Elongated skull, three fingers. And two of them have fetuses.

Now, the smaller mummies, the two feet tall mummies, one of them at least has what appears to be eggs. And there's been testing done on all of that, and it's been determined that whatever those are, it's biological material. So previously it seemed like you were saying the small ones are fake, but that seems... I wouldn't say fake. I wouldn't use the term fake.

I would say that the small ones are facsimiles of the large ones, maybe effigies. And they put biological material, they put eggs in them? Yes, they would have been, you know, I think these are legitimate ancient artifacts. At the very least, these are ancient artifacts. Okay. Now, let me say that in 20, I believe in 2023, there was an incident in the airport in Lima, which is the capital of Peru. Lima is the capital city of Peru.

And this got a lot of play on the news, both in Peru and worldwide. They intercepted a few of these, the smaller dolls in the airport. Somebody was attempting to ship them via DHL, I think to Mexico, and they were intercepted by the Ministry of Culture.

And they were dressed in traditional Andean garb. So they look like little dolls. Yeah, yeah. Right? But very similar to the Nazca tridactyls. And the Ministry of Culture actually dissected these things.

and determined very quickly that they're fake because they found synthetic components. The joints were being held together by some sort of a glue. It was a composite of different animals, right?

And so the ministry of culture came out and declared, confidently declared, we've solved the mystery. We've proved that these things are a hoax. These are not, these were not living, breathing beings. These are composites of different creatures. And I think that

The whole thing was very suspicious to me because I think that the intention was this is going to put this whole thing to bed once and for all. The problem is that the individual who was trafficking these little composite artifacts...

He fabricated them. He admitted that he fabricated them. He admitted that these these have nothing to do with the other ones I was just making facsimiles to sell abroad, right, right? so when that came to light it became obvious that that These are not the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, this is this is something different and I

I mean, I wonder if that whole situation was engineered by the Ministry of Culture in Peru to debunk the whole thing once and for all. Because the Ministry of Culture has tried to forcefully seize the four specimens that are being kept at the University of Ica six times.

They've tried a forced entry into the premises of the university to seize the mummies, to seize the specimens six times. And they've been denied every time. They've been rebutted every time at the university. So the position of the ministry and culture in Peru has been very hostile. At first it was just, oh, this is just a hoax situation.

And then after two or three hearings in the Peruvian Congress, and then one in Mexico, and all of the international interest in these things, and all of the scientific testing that's been done on them, I think the Ministry of Culture went into panic mode. Why do they want to shut down? Well...

First of all, anything that goes contrary to the conventional narrative in Peru is taboo. Much more so even than in the United States. I have some experience with the Ministry of Culture in Peru, and they toe the line. And they don't like any narratives that are unconventional at all. And these are certainly unconventional artifacts. And at first, as I said, they just...

They didn't really pay too much attention. They just said, oh, these are obvious hoaxes. And then they became quite hostile and attempted to seize the specimens by force. And that's never happened before in Peru. Could the things be like, you know, a missing link, you know, like archaeologists, anthropologists, they find Lucy or something, some earlier hominid kind of creature? What the Ankari team and the professors at the University of Ica

Told me is they believe that these are hybridized beings So the inquiry team believes that the smaller Specimens they call them Reptoids or reptilian because they their skin is sort of like a reptile they have they have some Some samples of the skin it's very reptilian. They have eggs some of them have eggs so it's like a reptile and

And they think that the large ones, the larger mummies are hybrids between the small ones and human beings. So you have human species, these reptilian things, and that somebody created a hybrid and that's what the larger mummies are. Now, I don't know if that's true. I mean, I can't confirm or deny that claim, but that's what they believe. And the professors at the University of Ica are also thinking along those lines.

Every single professor that I spoke to at the university is 100% convinced that all of the mummies are real. When I say real, they were living, breathing beings. Right. Having said that, the American team that went down there, they, as I said before, they're not very interested in the small ones. Yeah. And I...

They don't believe that the small ones were living, breathing beings. They think that those are probably some sort of doll or, as I said before, a facsimile of the larger ones, something like that. But they think that the bigger ones... The jury's out. The jury's out with the bigger ones. Again, none of these scientific teams are willing to come out and say these are real. What they're willing to say is they're not. We have not yet discovered any proof.

Proof of a hoax. So this raises real questions about history, anthropology, even religion. So before we get to that, speaking of religion, I want you to go to hallow.com right now. Starting on May 19th, Hallow has a consecration to Jesus through St. Joseph, led by Father Mike Schmitz and Sister Miriam, available to you.

St. Joseph is obviously a refreshing counter to our busy, noisy world. He is a quiet, humble guardian who was trusted with raising our Lord and protecting Mary. So, pretty big responsibilities, I would say. The timing of this consecration aligns with the new Pope and wraps up on Pentecost. It's just marvelous. It just brings in a lot of different elements, various litanies, and all the rest of it. So, you can listen.

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However human beings came about, I think we have to have a common ancestor, and this follows Pope Pius II, Omani Generes. We have to have a common ancestor. We have to literally descend from people that we call Adam and Eve. Beyond that, I don't have particularly strong opinions.

What does it mean if these be first of all how does a human being mate with another being and create a hybrid? I didn't think that was possible and to what does it mean for us? What does it mean for everything from our human nature to salvation history if that actually happened? Well, those are the essential questions Assuming these things are real. Let's just put aside the small ones for a moment Just focus on the larger ones like Maria the one that I was I had the opportunity to examine and

If Maria was in fact a living, breathing being, if we assume that that was the case, then what we're looking at is a non-human species that appears to have been hybridized with Homo sapiens. So that would then indicate that there's another intelligence in the background who's doing the hybridization. Or couldn't it just be a human gets frisky with something?

Not to be too blunt about it. That's also possible. But the reason why I say that and the reason why the NCARI Institute team and the professors in ICA are persuaded that, or at least are open to the idea that we're looking at a process of hybridization or experimentation in hybridization, is because it looks like there were some failures.

Like the project was obviously not successful in some cases because you have the different mummies display a variety of different anatomical anomalies. And it looks like somebody was trying to perfect a hybrid. And for example, the mummy that's designated Wawita, which means baby in Quechua, at the University of Ica, it's

It's a bizarre mummy. It's not one of the two feet one, the two foot tall ones. It's rather, it's an infant of the larger ones. Okay. So it's got, it's tridactyl. It's got three fingers, three toes. The skeletal structure of this infant is very similar to the larger ones, but it has this humongous head.

Like babies. Babies have a giant head. This one's even bigger. Yeah, this is an unusually large head, and it has some, besides the three fingers, it has some very interesting deviations from the larger ones. And there's a couple of other mummies that are like that with deviations, right? So none of them are exactly the same. And so the idea is, the question is, are we looking at

like an experiment in hybridization here. So not just a random, you know, a human meets some other kind of being and does something weird and you get this freak comes out of it. Yeah. But that this was an intentional experiment to create another being. Yeah.

Yeah. Undertaken by humans or something else. That's the idea. Now, I'm not sure I believe that personally, but that's what was communicated to me. But could it be, you know, I remember... That's a hypothesis. I read some pop science bit about how

Sub-Saharan Africans don't have any Neanderthal DNA. Non-Sub-Saharan Africans, everybody else just about, does have some Neanderthal DNA, which suggests some interbreeding many moons ago between Homo sapiens and Neanderthals, but not in Sub-Saharan Africa. Could it just be something like that? Why would it have to be intentional hybridization? It doesn't have to be. That's just one of the hypotheses. Okay. The other hypothesis is

The one that I was originally inclined to favor, and probably still do, assuming these are real, is what you said before. Maybe there is a crypto-terrestrial non-human race, species, inhabiting planet Earth, probably subterranean, that interbred with either the Paracas or Nazca peoples in Peru. By the way, these mummies were...

they tested them for the carbon-14 to get the date and They're approximately between a thousand and fifteen hundred years old so that corresponds to the Nazca culture and the end of the Paracas culture, so

Was there some sort of a contemporary non-human species inhabiting the deserts of Peru? It might not have been desert back then either, by the way. But was there a non-human species that was contemporaneous with, let's say, the Nazca culture, interbreeding with them? Is this where the elongated skull feature comes from on some of the Nazca, the ones that aren't the result of cranial deformation? Again, presuming that there are some skulls that are

that are natural. Well, and if you're talking about 1,500 years ago, I mean, when we think of finding these weird middle stage kind of non-human creatures, we're talking much, much further back than that. 1,500 years ago, you have the fall of the Roman Empire. The rise of scholasticism. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're...

Right, you're saying they go back to like the first century AD basically In that time period and then and then you know Like I said a thousand to fifteen hundred years you're suggesting that that after st. Augustine wrote his confessions there could have been a non-human

hominid-like intelligent creature breeding with humans in the New World, which at that point was untouched by the Old World. That's a hypothesis. I'm not willing to commit to that. I'm not willing to make that declaration here on your show. But that's a hypothesis, yeah, that there's a subterranean cryptoterrestrial species with elongated skulls, three fingers, overly large orbital sockets, different kind of brain, and only 30%...

30% similarity to the human genome. In other words, this is a subspecies of Homo sapiens, not even a subspecies, rather, this is a completely different species from Homo sapiens. But assuming, again, we're playing with the idea that these are real. How do you only get to 30%? I'm no biologist, but it seems to me if you bred two different species together and created a hybrid, it'd be 50-50.

So how do you get to 30? Is it that you create the hybrid species and then you breed the hybrid with another one of the first species? How do you do it? I don't know what the percentage of DNA is when you have, let's say, two different species that are, they're different species, but they're

They're reproductively compatible. When they copulate and produce offspring, I mean, I'm not sure what the ratio of DNA, how much, would it be a 50-50 split or does it vary? I don't know. I always thought it would be, but then I look at my eldest son who looks exactly like my wife. I don't think I contributed any DNA to it at all. Exactly. To him, rather. So I'm not sure how that works. I'm not a geneticist, but anything's possible. If this is true and we're talking about a non-human species,

cohabiting the earth contemporaneously with these ancient cultures. You know, this, of course, this is, this is,

not knew this idea of non-human entities, subterranean, co-inhabiting the earth with us. The Nazis believed this. The Nazis believed, at least some of the Nazis believed in the Vril. In fact, they had a Vril society. And they did go to Latin America when they were trying to flee from the Allies, those Nazis. They did. Wait, what are the Vril? I'm not as up to date, even though these days if you're on Twitter, it's basically all Nazis, but I'm not as up to date on Nazi esotericism. What are the Vril?

Well, then the Nazis there was a book I'm trying to remember the name. I believe it's called in somebody wrong No, I believe it's called the coming race by Edward Lytton Bullen I think I probably got that wrong. So I haven't read it. I did read it a long time ago I read it, you know ten years ago. I can't remember exactly the title and but he he wrote

fictional story, right? But he didn't come out and say it was fiction. A lot of people think he was, the Nazis certainly believed that it was a true story, that it was nonfiction, in which he recounts the journey of an individual who somehow, I don't remember the details, somehow made it to like this underground civilization, made his way underground and discovered these intelligent non-human beings inhabiting the bowels of the earth, and he called them the Vril.

And based on this story, you had the development of the Vril Society, which was an occult society. And you had these women who styled themselves as the Vril Maidens. And they had very long hair and they were part of this occult society. And they were mediums. Huh. And...

And the Vril Society was instrumental in the early days of the Nazi Party. I did know they were into really weird occult stuff. And I was speaking recently to a priest who said, you know, it's not... It used to be 20 years ago, the big task of an evangelist was to convince people not to be atheists.

They said, no, no one's atheist. Atheism is passe and cringe and lame. He said, now the challenge is to convince them not to go into the occult. It's as if the occult, 100 years later, has made a big comeback. That's a really good point. Yeah. No, that's a really good point. And I think I would agree with that. Yeah. But the Nazis, the Vril Society believed that the Vril were real. And they went looking for them. They wanted to make contact with them. And there's a lot that can be said there. That's sort of a, that's a big...

diversion from what we've been talking about. Well, because you left us on a cliffhanger last time about aliens and abductions and that kind of stuff. But now I'm thinking, well, hold on, maybe you don't look up into the sky. Maybe that's all fake news. And the real weird conspiracy theory is, no, you look down into the earth. That's where the abductions are coming from. That's called the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis. I've stumbled onto it unknowingly. You did, yeah. So the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis posits that

That there are intelligent non-human beings who have been co-inhabiting planet Earth, albeit covertly, with the human species for thousands of years. Forever. Forever. Maybe they were here before us, right? Maybe they're indigenous to planet Earth, or maybe they came from somewhere else and established a civilization. And there's various...

branches of this hypothesis. Some people believe that, or some people have theorized that there's an antediluvian race still alive that survived the cataclysm, but now they're living in a civilization under the ground or something like this. This is called the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis. Wouldn't that, though, contradict

salvation history if, if, isn't the idea of the flood that it just wipes out everything except for that which was saved on Noah's Ark, which in your line of work, I recently read an article about how they think they found Noah's Ark in Turkey or something. Yeah. But I don't know anything about that. I don't really know much about any of this. Well, this, okay. So there are a few different perspectives on the flood of Noah.

Okay, so the the the most common perspective in the fundamentalist perspective is that the flood and by the way Let me preface this by saying all three of these perspectives come from using the same a breakdown of the same terminology In other words from the text Yeah these all three of these hypotheses come from the the wording and the text and you can make a case for all three based on the text, right? so

The first, of course, is the universal flood that the flood of Noah covered every square inch of ground on planet Earth, that Mount Everest was underwater. Yeah. Okay? That's the most common understanding and the most widespread conventional position of most Christians. Yeah. Okay? So I would call that the global flood theory. Yeah.

The second is what's called the local flood theory. And this theory posits that, indeed, there was a catastrophic flood, but it was limited in scope. It was geographically limited to Mesopotamia, the Levant.

And the civilizations in the Levant were absolutely destroyed, devastated. So if you were a person living in the ancient Near East at that time, your entire world, the entire known world is inundated. Let's say the Mediterranean area, totally inundated and all the civilizations in the Mediterranean are inundated.

Are wiped out or utterly destroyed well, but maybe the rest of the earth wasn't affected in the same way That's the local flood theory and there are a lot of scholars good scholars like the late Michael Heiser who subscribed to a local flood theory And using again just based on the text not reading anything into the text just based on the text of Scripture and those are in some sense competing theories and then

There's a hypothesis that I subscribe to and maybe I invented that I call the global cataclysm hypothesis. So rather than it just being a localized flood in the ancient Near East, maybe in the Mediterranean area,

The entire Earth was subjected to a devastating cataclysm, and that everywhere on Earth was affected by the cataclysm, but differently, depending on where you lived.

So if you lived maybe in the Mediterranean, you would have experienced catastrophic flooding. It would have been an aqueous cataclysm. But if you lived in a different part of the earth, you might have experienced some other kind of effect from this cataclysm, like extreme volcanism, earthquakes. And this basically, there's a couple of different scenarios that we can think about that may have precipitated

the great flood. In other words, what was the cause of the flood? I mean, you read the Bible, it rained a lot. But I think it's much more complicated than that. I actually subscribe to the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis. And the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis posits that sometime around 12,000 years ago, sometime around 10,000 B.C., in the neighborhood, let's say, of 10,000 or 11,000 B.C.,

There was some sort of a cosmic body, an asteroid or fragments of an asteroid that collided with planet Earth during the Ice Age, the last Ice Age, the end of the last Ice Age, and probably bombarded the North American ice sheet, specifically the Laurentide ice sheet, which covered much of North America. We're talking about a mile to two mile deep sheets of ice. Yeah.

And that event, that impact event is what catalyzed the great cataclysm that all the ancients talk about, including the biblical writers. And if you read the universal testimony of our ancient and descendants, all of the primary cultures around the world, they all have flood myths. Now, most of them have specifically flood myths. All of them have cataclysm myths.

Because you do find some variation some of the cultures rather than describing catastrophic flooding they'll describe black rain and earthquakes and an extreme volcanism and it's so there's some variation but the the general testimony of our antecedents is that there was some cataclysmic event that rocked the earth in the distant past and brought to ruin the remarkable civilization that inhabited the earth and

in the antediluvian world. And this is, you know, certainly the ancient Near Eastern cultures believe this. The ancient Greeks believe this. The Romans believe this. You find these myths among the Native Americans in North America. Everywhere. The ancient Chinese. Everybody has cataclysm myths. So,

I believe that there was an impact and there's been a lot of study done on this hypothesis. I didn't invent it. It's called the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis. And I think there's a lot of evidence and the evidence is mounting that in fact the Earth was bombarded at the end of the last ice age by some sort of cosmic body or bodies that collided probably

With the ice sheets, but in America in the Christian understanding of it doesn't everybody have to die isn't it that the whole earth is so corrupted that God sends the flood and there's only one good guy Noah and he brings his family and two of each animal onto the ark and then everyone else dies crucially everyone else is gone so that every every one and everything that descends that is a existent today comes from

that which was saved on Noah's Ark as a figure of the salvation of Christ. Is your theory, however it comes about, whether it's a meteor or whatever, an asteroid or something, could certain things have survived?

Yes. Okay. Yeah. And again, I'm sure there's a lot of Christians listening to this who are going to protest because doesn't the Bible say X, Y, Z? Well, let me remind everyone that there is a very strong case to be made, at least for the local flood, using the text. Many scholars do. So it's not as cut and dry as a lot of people think it is.

I'm open to all three of the scenarios. I mean, as I said, I do subscribe to the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis. We do know that that impact led to the extermination of the megafauna. That megafaunal extinction event, that did happen at the end of the Younger Dryas. And

Those animals went extinct overnight. What are those animals? Well, you're talking about the mammoths. Yeah. Yeah mastodons the giant sloths the saber-toothed tigers the the short-faced bears All of those magnificent megafauna creatures that roamed the earth they disappeared overnight basically, I mean we have a

We've discovered mammoths or mastodons in various parts of the earth that are very well preserved. I know some have come from Siberia, some have come from North America, in which it's apparent that...

These things died suddenly like they were flash frozen. Yeah, they chewing food like they got the kovat shot. No, I'm joking joking something happened and they all right right like instant death and And it looks like some of them were flash frozen and they're they're they're eating they're chewing on food They have food in their stomachs. That's not yet digest fermented and so forth but

And so something catastrophic obviously happened. And I think that something catastrophic is precisely what's documented in the pages of the Hebrew Bible. Okay. So then I want to fast forward. Maybe there are these weird things living underground.

Maybe there are some people, I don't really believe in aliens or anything, but some people believe there are weird things flying around the sky. Some people, I don't know, they say come from under the ocean or something like that. But there are people who claim to have had contact with these things today. Not in 500 AD, not 10,000 BC, today. Which things? Aliens. Okay.

Or, I don't know, weird three-fingered Peruvian longheads. Or, I don't know. I think it's like hallucinations or demons or something. But do you believe in those things? Do you believe the accounts of people who say they've encountered them? Do you think the people who say they've encountered them are being sincere, but they're just deluded? And if those are real interactions, are they weird three-fingered Peruvians or are they aliens? What specifically are we talking about? Are we talking about

Alien abduction are we talking about people who have encountered UFOs? Let's start with abduction, but then broaden it to people who say they've encountered UFOs. Okay, so were you SOS? I even I was talking to a guy who's a

I'm not going to say he's a totally balanced guy, but he's a pretty sober-minded guy who says that he was underwater once. He was a diver, and he saw an unidentified submerged object that was moving much faster than any technology that he was aware of, government or private. And he couldn't weigh deeper, couldn't explain it, looked like a light, didn't look like a bioluminescent. So anyway, I've heard these accounts even from people who seem at least relatively sane.

What's your take? Okay. Let's start with the UFOs and then work into the abductions because I think we can say definitively at this point

And I think I said this last time I was on your program. You said you saw one. Yes, I did. And that UFOs are a reality now, concrete reality. They're unidentified flying. They're not a figment of people's imaginations. And there definitely are advanced aerial vehicles. Yes. That...

are inexplicable in regard to their capabilities. I agree, even in my deep skepticism of all this. I agree, all that's true. Where people lose me is they say that a little green or gray man took me up on a spaceship and started probing areas that I used to only reserve for the three-fingered Peruvians and the Bonobos. Okay, well, so early on in ufology, and ufology is just UFO research. Yeah.

Everyone was fixated on the UFOs. Yeah, the lights in the sky the the objects that dart around in the sky and perform these extraordinary aerial maneuvers and And we need to I mean we're talking about maneuvers that are impossible Yeah, according to our current understanding of physics, you know right angle turns at thousands of miles an hour for example. Yeah and those objects We now know because back then let's say

10 years ago and 10 years and beyond, there was a UFO controversy. Are UFOs real? Do these things exist or are all of the alleged sightings hallucinations or do they all have mundane explanations? That was the controversy. Today, in 2025, the controversy is over. There is no controversy anymore. UFOs are real.

This technology exists. Advanced aerial vehicles definitely are flying in our airspace and in many cases are restricted airspace. Yes. The government has admitted as much. Yeah. The Pentagon has admitted as much.

And we've had whistleblowers come forth who have claimed firsthand knowledge of what's called the Legacy Program. Yes. And the Legacy Program is the project, the program of recovery of these craft, the ones that crash.

And the reverse engineering of the technology. And they've even said in congressional testimony, these craft have biologics. Right. The recovery of the pilots, the non-human pilots. Yes. This was the testimony of David Grush. Yes. Who worked in the intelligence community and was actually tasked to study UAP officially for the government. And he came up, he ran up against a program that he was not allowed to be read into.

Yes. And this was the legacy program. So this guy says, I've encountered these beings, but they're dead, and they were in some aircraft. And whether you believe it or not, okay, has anyone who says they've seen the things alive, are they just total nutters, as I kind of think they are, or spiritually darkened, as I think they are, or have people met these entities? Yes.

So I think we can confirm at this point that the phenomenon is real. Okay. Advanced aerospace vehicles exist. Yep. Okay. And I think I am 100% confident that some of this technology is non-human in origin. Okay. Okay.

Now, transitioning over to people who've actually encountered the entities, because this is where it gets very interesting to me. Yeah. Lights in the sky is one thing. Yeah, yeah. Seeing a cigar-shaped craft or a tic-tac-shaped object zipping around in the sky, that's one thing. Cigar-shaped anything interests me. Yeah, exactly. We're very much interested in cigar-shaped anything. So that's one thing. But I'm much more interested in what's piloting the craft. Yes. Okay. And...

The only insight, besides the people who are working inside of the Legacy Program, who have actually had hands on the craft and the bodies, but that's... So far, we haven't had anyone come forth in an official capacity at a hearing, raising their hand and swearing under oath that they were inside the program and have held the bodies or have handled the materials or anything like that. We've had people like Grush...

who he's come up against the program. He was made aware of the program, but could not penetrate it, right? So the only insight that we have into the craft are the abductees. And the alien abduction phenomenon really began to come to light in the 80s. It goes back before that. In fact, I think it goes back to the late 19th century.

And but it it came to light in the 80s primarily. I mean, you had the Barney and Betty Hill affair, which happened in the 60s and a couple of other cases with Barney and Betty Hill were kind of the most famous abduction incident was back in the 60s.

Think it was 1961 and they had an abduction experience that was publicized and this was one of the first times not the very first case but one of the first cases that that that was actually publicized regarding alien abduction and they were an interracial couple and they they had this bizarre tale to tell and The media actually took it serious and it was widely publicized but in the 80s you had

You had a deluge of abductees coming forth, describing their experiences, and they were coming to abduction researchers. And the alien abduction researchers are not crackpots. They're not tinfoil hat crackpots. You're talking about very prestigious people. You're talking about highly intelligent researchers such as the late John Mack,

from Harvard University, who was the head of the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard. I thought it was a prerequisite to get into Harvard. You had to be a crackpot. At this point. Today. At this point, yeah. So you had people like Dr. Carla Turner, who was a professor at the university level, Dr. David Jacobs, who was a professor of history at Temple University, and

Others of this caliber who who did a lot of research and collected a lot of data regarding the abduction phenomenon and what you have to understand about this phenomenon the abduction phenomenon is that this This is an area of research that that lends itself to scientific inquiry This isn't just fanciful stories. These stories have every kind of evidence to prove a case in the court of law and

Such as? Well, when abductees are taken, they're physically removed from the point of abduction. They're not there anymore. You've had incidents in which people have been abducted and search parties have been sent out to look for them. And then they mysteriously appear back in their room or back on the couch or whatever. You have cases in which abductees that there's third party witnesses

Like a neighbor sees their neighbor being abducted. Like beamed up to a spaceship? Yes, in some cases, yes. You have abductees have physical evidence on their bodies. Sometimes there's an abduction episode that happens, and when they return, they have scars, fully formed scars that they didn't have the night before. And, of course, you have abductees who return with fetuses in their wombs.

And they weren't pregnant previous to the abduction event. And this is, as I said, this is an area of research that lends itself to scientific inquiry because of the physical evidence. But it's not the fetuses they have in their womb, presumably, are human. They don't have a... Those, no, they're hybrids. And let's...

You know, I wanted people to separate in their mind the three-fingered tridactyl situation to the alien abduction scenario. But we've never seen one of these hybrids, have we? Well, we haven't, but abductees interact with them all the time. So the abduction phenomenon has been going on for a long time. But, like, a woman, you know, says, I got beamed up to the spaceship, I came back, I'm pregnant. I give birth to this... They don't give birth.

They come back with fetuses, and the fetuses are removed in a subsequent abduction episode between nine and 11 weeks before they start to show. A typical abduction episode unfolds in the following way. You'll have, let's say, there's a woman is going to bed at night. She's maybe reading in bed, and then she turns the lights off and goes to sleep. Her husband could be laying in bed next to her. And then suddenly she awakens in the middle of the night.

to a light in her room. She opens her eyes, but she's paralyzed, can't move, can't speak, very reminiscent of... - Sleep paralysis. - Sleep paralysis. But in many cases, they'll see a beam of light in the room or a flash of light, and then a little gray guy appears, or usually three. Three little gray guys appear in the room, bald, diminutive, gray people with large almond-shaped black eyes.

And usually the first thing that happens is these entities will come up to the abductee who again is immobilized, awake but immobilized. And they'll look into their eyes and they'll communicate telepathically with them and attempt to calm them down. And then they extract the abductee from the bedroom in this case. And that usually happens through a beam of light that's projected into the room. And they go through the beam of light, through the window, up into the craft.

If the craft is not in proximity, then what happens is that the little gray guys, little gray aliens, will hold the abductee by the hand. They'll walk him through the house, down the stairs, out the front door, across the front yard, across the field, into the woods, into a clearing in the woods where the craft has landed.

and then they'll escort the abductee into the craft. And that procedure usually happens during a corporate abduction, a mass abduction, where there's multiple people being taken from the same neighborhood. And then they take the abductees onto the craft and they subject them to a series of procedures that are common to all abductees. And you have to understand that as fantastical, as crazy as this sounds... Yeah, I'm not really on board. ...as crazy...

As this sounds, witnesses from around the world for decades now have described the exact same thing. But couldn't they have just read the account? No. These are people from all over the world going back decades. This goes back to before flying saucers and little green men were popular and were a figure of pop culture. These people are explaining the same thing.

And remember, they're returning in many cases with physical evidence. Sometimes when they're brought back, when they're returned to the point of abduction, their clothes are on backwards or they have somebody else's clothes on. Sometimes abductees encounter, they'll encounter other people on the craft and then they'll be shopping in the grocery store and they'll see that person who they've never met in their life in any other context and they recognize each other and remember the abduction episode.

And basically what happens is when they're on the craft, they're subjected to a series of procedures that are, for women, they're gynecological in nature. They're laid out on a table, and the greys will usually take semen from the males and eggs from the females.

And then they take the egg from the female, they add in the sperm from the male, then they add in some kind of alien component. And then they implant the embryo into the woman's womb and she carries, the fetus develops in her womb and she carries it for about 11 weeks. And then there's a subsequent birth.

Abduction episode and they remove the the fetus and they put it into a gestation tank and it completes the rest of its development But now hold on if you're if you're one of these women who says, you know I got beamed up and implanted to use a euphemism and then I come back down. I'm pregnant. Do they go get a pregnancy test? Do they go sweat they do so there is some evidence that they're actually oh, yes, something then they and then one day they say Okay, I'm not pregnant anymore before they're showing so before they can feel this is called missing fetus syndrome. I

Yes. They'll go get the pregnancy confirmed at their gynecologist, and then mysteriously the fetus disappears. This has been recorded, multiple cases around the world. Because for me, to me it's kind of like Jeffrey Epstein in the prison cell. Like, if you've got a guy who's one of the most wanted men in the world, who's got a lot of powerful people who...

want to kill him or who he has dirt on and he's tried to commit suicide before and you have him isolated in a prison cell and then you say, ah, darn, we took our eyes off him. You say like, well, why'd you take your eyes off him? You got to hold on. You got the guys should have eyes on him 24 seven. So if I'm a woman who I think I got abducted and impregnated by an alien and I come back to earth and I'm confirmed, I am pregnant now. Wouldn't you like

I don't know, be extra careful so you don't get abducted again? Most abductees have no recollection of their abduction episodes. The entities that abduct them, the greys, as I said, all communication on board the craft is telepathic. These entities never speak with their mouths. And they have the ability to implant screen memories in the minds of the abductees. And a screen memory is basically a false memory.

So in the case that I described earlier, that a woman who's being abducted, she goes to sleep, she wakes up, she has these little gray guys in her room. Sometimes there's a screen memory and the abductee has this bizarre feeling.

recollection, which is sort of dreamlike where let's say there's an owl perched on her nightstand and it's got big black eyes and it's like communicating telepathically with her and that's her memory of the event. But she has scars. The next morning she wakes up with a scar or her nose is bleeding and she feels like something happened at night but I don't know what it was. Well, what happens is they have these false memories, screen memories that are implanted in

into their minds that are designed to obfuscate the real memories. So most abductees don't have conscious recall of an abduction episode, of an abduction event. You have to circumvent the screen memories. And when you circumvent those screen memories, you get the same story.

I mean, we're talking from hundreds of thousands of people around the world from different cultures. But how do you circumvent the scream memory? Could you not, would that not be...

But what I'm saying is, couldn't that process be implanting the memory? So if the way we're looking at it now is, well, the real memory, the real thing that happened is they were abducted and impregnated by aliens. The fake memory is that you were looking at your owl, talking to your owl, but couldn't it just be the opposite? That the real thing that happened was you were talking to your owl and...

Well, the problem is all the physical evidence that I the aforementioned physical evidence the scratches problem is when I scratch themselves Problem is when your neighbor sees you being abducted. Yeah, that's probably the problem is when you're missing Yeah, when you were when when you know Your daughter went to bed at night and now you can't find her and the police are out looking for her For a couple of hours and then suddenly she's back in her bed. Yeah, I

The problem is when abductees are abducted from their bedroom, and they're not always abducted from their bedroom. Some are abducted while they're driving. They pull over and they're abducted. There's a lot of cases like that. But let's say this happens, actually this has happened quite a bit, where an abductee is abducted from their bedroom, but they don't get put back in their bed. They're left outside on the patio, and they're knocking on the door, and they're in their nightgown, and the door's locked, and sometimes they have to break into their own house to get back in.

I mean, this is not a psychological phenomenon. But a skeptic would say, they probably went sleepwalking. They probably just went out and they don't remember it. They don't remember it. They say they have this gap in their memory. So maybe, you know, like a dementia patient goes out and starts wandering, doesn't know how they ended up on their front porch or something. Couldn't it just be that? No, you're saying the uniformity of the physical evidence points to an alien abduction. And the...

synchronization of all of the testimony of abductees from around the world, different cultures, different languages, different backgrounds. I mean, it's every walk of life. It cuts cross-culturally, this phenomenon. I mean, you have blue-collar guys that are being abducted next to doctors and lawyers and probably congressmen. I mean, it cuts against every

cultural identity every occupation every bias and bias and It's it's a reality. So I Studied the abduction material. I've been studying it for a decade and very intrigued by it And there's a lot of good material like this again. These aren't crackpots. There's a lot of good research and

Eventually, I've been speaking about it on podcasts and writing about it. I write about this in my book, Birthright. And now I have abductees coming to me, telling me their stories, relating things to me. I'm not asking them to come to me. And these people are not... Most abductees are not...

They don't want to publicize what's happening to them. They don't want fame. They're not looking for money. They're not looking to publish a book. This is just something that they live with and they want answers. And I'm sure after this interview, I'm going to get flooded by emails of people who are sending me emails describing the same phenomenon. And, you know, the late Dr. John Mack, he was a psychiatrist and he said, look, either one of two things is happening here.

And this is definitive. Either one of two things is happening. Either people are really being abducted, and this is a physical phenomenon that's widespread.

Or there's something just as intriguing going on. There's a psychological phenomenon happening. Right. Where all these people think they're being abducted. Yeah. All over the world. Yeah. Okay? And remember, we're talking decades back. It's still happening today. But you could say schizophrenia involves hallucinations and... Collectively? Is it corporate hallucinations where everybody is experiencing the same thing and coming back with the same physical... No, no. But you would at least say...

schizophrenia exists across cultural boundaries and geographic boundaries and the same borderline personality disorder exists across cultural boundaries and it seems to be concentrated among affluent people in America, but you know, it exists everywhere. Now, so that's not to say, you know, your neighbor sees you get beamed up to a spacecraft. That's obviously, that's a separate issue. But if it, but to his point, if it were a psychological phenomenon, that's an interesting thesis. Could it not also be a spiritual phenomenon? What do you do with the implants?

What's the implant? You're talking about the fetus? No, no. I'm talking about many abductees. I think all abductees have alien implants. What's the implant? These are small, very small devices. They're about the size of a small pill. They're usually located up in the upper nasal cavity, sometimes behind the air, sometimes behind the neck, but they can be anywhere in the body. And these are very...

There was Dr. Lear, Roger Lear. He extracted several of these things from patients who came to him, and he discovered a few things, a few very interesting features of these implants. Number one, the body doesn't reject them.

So these are technological devices that are implanted in the body. The body does not reject them. They're foreign objects. There's no swelling. There's no inflammation. Number two, they're evasive. They move. And when Dr. Lehrer would go to sometimes would go and others, by the way, not just Dr. Lehrer, the late Dr. Lehrer, he passed away, would go to extract these implants, they would evade, evade him in the body.

So they're mobile. They move around. And then the third thing about them is that they seem to be composed of nanotubes, nanotechnology. And these have been extracted from abductees. Abductees have had them fall out of their noses, their nasal cavity, after an abduction episode. So I think all abductees are implanted.

I mean, we have, not me, but abduction researchers have the implants that have come out of people's bodies. So how do the skeptics explain that? Like me, how do I explain that? There is no explanation. So really, there's, let's say inside of ufology, there's two camps. So among people who believe in an extraterrestrial presence or whatever it is, non-human intelligence, some of them believe that

the abductions are actually happening and that the gray aliens are perpetrating this phenomenon. Others think that the government is perpetrating this phenomenon. Yeah, yeah, okay. That the elements of the CIA are abducting people and pretend dressing up like aliens and so forth. Yeah, I mean there have been agencies of the US government that have conducted experiments on their own citizens. Yes, but the problem, and I understand why people think that, and I think there may be some truth to that, but the scope of that would be very limited.

There is no way, it is entirely, I think, unfeasible that there is some element of any government, not just the United States government, any government that is capable of perpetrating a phenomenon that is so widespread, so secretive. We're talking the abduction researchers, the late Bud Hopkins and then Dr. David Jacobs, who's still alive,

They did a poll. I think it was a Roper poll. I can't remember the year. I think it was back in the 80s or 90s. And it was a professional poll. I forget how many people they, what do you call that? Surveyed. Surveyed in the poll. But they determined that somewhere between 2% and 5% of the U.S. population are abductees.

Two and five per-- between two and five percent. So you're talking about a tremendous amount of people who are experiencing this phenomenon. But we, you know, they don't all have implants in their noses. I would say all of them have implants somewhere in their body. But they haven't been discovered? No, but many of them do discover the implants. And it's usually during a CT scan or an x-ray or something like that. They find this strange foreign object. Sometimes they decide to have the object removed, but not always.

Because sometimes it's embedded way up high in the nasal cavity or back here behind the ears, the back of the neck. And most abductees that I've interfaced with who have implants just would rather not touch it.

They don't want to you know, they don't want to operate and dig in there and try and get this thing out because it's not really Affecting them. They don't feel it. It's not causing any pain Yeah, but if it proves the existence of some intelligent bizarro being or of a nefarious government program Wouldn't you be willing to you know go under the scalpel for it? Well many do and you've got to find you know, I mean you've got to find a surgeon willing to to extract it and and

It's you know, and there are surgeons out there who do it like like I said the late Roger Lear So what does he do so he gets the thing out and looks at it? What it what does it do? What is the what is the implant? Well, it's evasive They're very difficult to get when you do when you do extract them again They seem to be covered in them in a membrane some kind of an organic membrane and they're they're very very difficult to cut really hard to cut and

They've looked at them with the electron microscopes and they've discovered, as I said before, like nanotubes. So there seems to be some kind of a nanotechnology associated with these things. But quite a few of them have been extracted from abductees. So where are they? I want to see one of these things. Well, Laird had some. It's rumored that Steven Spielberg has some.

I've got people who come to me, right now I've got a couple of people who have identified an implant and they want to get it extracted and analyzed. So there aren't a whole lot of people who do abduction research anymore precisely because it just seems so fantastic. It sounds crazy. It sounds absolutely crazy. And so it's the least researched domain within ufology, especially today.

Even though, as I keep reiterating, there is a compelling body of evidence, excellent research, excellent data that has been accrued over decades in regard to this phenomenon. And there are contemporary people all over the world, not just the United States, who are still experiencing the phenomenon. And by the way, the phenomenon is intergenerational.

So if your parents are abductees, then the kids, I mean, then you're an abductee. So if the parents are abductees, then their children are also. But again, wouldn't that, to me, that raises such a red flag of, all right, your dad's a nut and you're going to be a nut too because you got some quirk of your psyche or something. You know, all I can tell you is I have familiarized myself with the data and I interface all the time with abductees, all the time.

And these people are from all walks of life. Some of them are very good friends of mine who I know personally. These are not crazy people. They're totally sound of mind, rational people. And what they described to me synchronizes precisely with the research, with the data that I've read. I mean, it's the exact same phenomenon.

And oftentimes, you know, they describe, they all describe the beings in the same way. They all describe the beings in the same way. One friend of mine actually reached out and grabbed one by the neck during an abduction episode. And she described the feeling, the skin of this creature in the exact same way that everyone else does. It's, you know, it's cold and clammy, leathery skin. So this isn't fanciful. No.

Is it some sort of crazy psychological thing that there's like a collective hallucination happening? How do you explain the implants? How do you explain the scars? How do you explain the disappearing fetuses?

How do you explain? I could explain both of the latter things. The scars could be a kind of repressed self-harm or you'll go into a thorn. That are not there when you go to bed but are there the next morning when you wake up? Yeah. Fully formed. No, you're saying the scar, it's not just an injury but that it's a scar. No, no, no. It's a fully formed scar. Okay. The disappearing fetus, you could say, well, you had a miscarriage or something like that. I don't know. But the implants would be harder to figure out. What about the missing time?

What do you mean? Many abductees. Well, let's say you're driving from one location to another, and it should take you an hour to get from A to B, and you're driving at night. And this is usually the way it works. You're driving along the road, and you see a light in the sky. You're usually on a rural road at nighttime. You see a light in the sky, and you think, oh, that's interesting. What is that? You're kind of looking out your windshield.

And suddenly you realize it's getting closer and closer until it's right behind your car. And you can actually see the shape of something in the rear view mirror. And it's very bright. Then the next thing you know, you've arrived to your destination. But you're missing two hours of time. Very common. That scenario is actually quite common among abductees. Well, they're not missing the time. The time is perfectly accounted for.

while they were on board the craft. You could say that. Being subjected to the... You could say they blacked it out. You know, sometimes I'll be driving. I was just on a long road trip. You're driving and, I don't know, you kind of blank out for a little bit. You say, oh, wow, did 20 minutes go by? But when they're subjected to hypnotic regression or they work with an abduction researcher, and there really aren't many of those left, and they can recall the memory, it's not, I blacked out. It's, okay, here's the

Because the last thing they consciously remember is the light behind them. And then suddenly they're at their destination or they're miles down the road suddenly. And they have really no recollection of what happened in the interim. But they've lost two hours. But when they begin to recover the memories, you hear the same thing from everybody all the time. They pull over to the side of the road because the entities are connected to them telepathically. And there's an element of control.

That might have to do with the implants as well. They pull over to the side of the road and they're just sort of in a comatose state. And the craft either lands and the entities get out and open the door and usher them into the craft. Or sometimes the entire car is lifted up into the craft. And then they're subjected to the typical procedures that happen on board the alien vessel.

And then they're put back in the car, but they're dropped off further or they're dropped off closer to their destination. Sometimes abductees are, when they come to, they're driving on the wrong side of the road into traffic. I mean, there's all kinds of crazy things that happen. And I mean...

There's a lot of things that could be said about this phenomenon. Look, that part too you could explain. They just sort of, you know, got a little drowsy, imagined something, swerved into the other side of the road, or they became British immediately. But okay, so let's say all that's real. Let's just suspend disbelief for a moment and say all that's real. Tying this back in some of the deeper things we've been talking about, history, philosophy, religion,

Last time we were talking a lot about the book of Enoch, biblical parallels. Are the little gray men good or bad or neither? What they're doing is nefarious. Okay. That part I could get on board with. I mean, the nature of an abduction is you're taking someone against their will. Abductees are not willingly participating in what amounts to a breeding program. Yeah. So this is an intrusion.

And most abductees, certainly the ones that I interface with, desperately want it to stop. It's a very frightening experience. And you have no control over it. And nobody wants to feel like a lab rat. So this is...

And this is a, you know, these people have a form of PTSD, like post-abduction, you know, post-traumatic abduction syndrome. And they lose sleep because they're not sleeping. And by the way, an abductee is abducted from the time they're a little child until they're elderly. There's no one-offs? No, there are no one-offs.

Abduction happens for the duration of their life. So again, it doesn't it doesn't that raise a red flag of maybe this is just something No, actually, I think it it it it creates more of a problem for skeptics Because abductees once they begin to recall the the abduction episodes they recall multiple cascade of episodes and

But what about like Freud? You know, when Freud comes around and he's developing psychoanalysis and all of a sudden it turns out every woman in the world got raped by her father. I don't mean to make light of it because some women, like a very small number of women are raped by their father. But the numbers that Freud is talking about are just totally implausible. Yeah, like mass psychosis. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that's, I, I, there's a, and that was the, the contention early on by skeptics is this is just some sort of fat, some sort of mass psychosis phenomenon.

you know, like a collective hallucination, um,

But if so, that's almost as equally fascinating. But again, the problem is all of the physical evidence. That's the problem. All of the physical evidence. As I say, I don't buy aliens at all, but I have many good friends who... Well, you haven't read my book yet. Yeah, I haven't made it all the way through, so maybe I'll believe it. But, though it is on my desk, I had to make it through War and Peace first, so that'll be a nice refreshing break after that. But

You know, I have friends who believe in this, some of whom are in this very building. One of them is a tall lumberjack-looking fellow with flannel shirts. But some of them are much more credible people, members of Congress, you know, are on these committees, who started out skeptical of the whole UFO thing, and now they kind of believe in it. And so I guess I'm willing to keep a slightly open mind on all of it, but it's pretty wacky sounding.

Yeah, I mean, it's extraordinary. It's extraordinary. It's difficult to believe, but again, when you familiarize yourself, when you become conversant in the research, in the material, not accrued by tinfoil hat nutjobs, by highly credentialed professionals, it's conclusive. The data is conclusive.

So, so what's the upshot of it? Why what are they let's say it's all real like what are the what are the gray things you say? They're nefarious. What are they trying to do? Like what's the if I'm reading this as a story? History is a story in fact written by God then What's the conclusion? What's the punchline of it? It's apparent that they're creating alien human hybrids that are indistinguishable from us, okay

that they appear to be integrating into human society. Okay. So what's the evidence for that? Well, I mean, I would refer you to Dr. David Jacobs' book, Walking Among Us. Jacobs, one of the premier abduction researchers. And he believes, by the way, that the ultimate goal is what he calls planetary acquisition, which is a fancy way of saying they're here to take over. Yeah.

Something like that is is afoot something like that is underway I have no doubt that a the abduction phenomenon is real and be The breeding program is real. In other words. They are creating alien human hybrids Okay, so if that's true and they they intend to inject all of these presumably they all look like Mark Zuckerberg these hybrids But they come they were injected into human society. Why not just a

beam the lady up impregnate her with the alien stuff and then send her back down and let her just give birth to the weird hybrid baby. Why do you have to beam her up again, take the baby out, put him in a spaceship and then drop him in a field somewhere? I don't know. I don't even know how they even integrate them. Because the project is clandestine. They don't want us to know what they're doing. But if the lady just gave birth, she wouldn't. She thinks she's just like, you know. Well, I don't know. If women started giving birth to hybrids all over the world, then...

Then that would raise obviously raise an alarm, but they look like us don't they or do they not look like us? Well, so Initially, it's it seems that they've been developing perfecting The hybrid over time so over the decades remember this goes back to most likely goes back to the late 19th century

mid to late 19th century. So the idea is that they've been working to perfect an alien-human hybrid that can integrate seamlessly into human society, and that would be, for all intents and purposes, completely indistinguishable from homegrown human beings. Okay. So that is...

Clear and present threat. Why would it start in the late 19th century? Why wouldn't start 5,000 years ago? I don't know why it would start then but but you're saying this is indications come there's it there's indications that That the abduction phenomenon phenomenon goes back to that timeframe Okay, so they probably not before that so then they're trying to perfect it. So who are they if they walk among us and

They're weird, you know half gray lizard leather skin people and half people people Who are they just is it just like Joe on the street? So I'm not sure How advanced they are at this point, but again when a reference dr. Jacobs book walking among us I forget when he wrote that I think about a decade ago or more it seems that

what he calls advanced stage hybrids, the ones that look like us, because as I said, it's been, let's say there's a spectrum of hybridization in the beginning. The hybrids looked not so much like us, more like the aliens and less like us. In other words, they had overly large head and eyes and scraggly hair and were very, very

spindly limbs. They look like the greys more than they look like us. Would they have looked like they had elongated skulls and big eyes and three fingers? Not elongated skulls, just overly large heads, bulbous heads with eyes that are too big. But as if to say... They look more like the greys than us. But you wouldn't be drawing a connection between like... No, I'm not. No, I'm not. I'm not. Even though it's going to seem like it for somebody who watches this interview from beginning to end. But no, I'm not. I'm not drawing a correlation here between...

the Nazca tridactyl beings and alien abductees. So you're saying, okay, 100 years ago, they tried it and they looked too much like aliens. Why do we think that? That's what has been documented in the data from abductees. So in the beginning, going back to the 70s and 80s,

The hybrids looked more like the aliens, and they didn't have, you know, they didn't have, their personality was not as developed like a human being. But where are the abductees encountering these beings? Is it on the craft? On the spaceship? Okay, all right. Okay. It's not at the grocery store, because then we would have seen them. Well, I think at this point, that's a distinct possibility. Have you been to Walmart? Fair point, fair point.

So the idea is... Now you believe. I know, yeah. Now you're thinking, wait a minute. There are definitely a few places I've been. That's not quite human. So then they're integrating these beings into... And the upshot is what? Are they going to... Is it the presidents of the United States are all lizards or is it... No. No, it's subtler. No, no, no. I don't subscribe to the... Because I've heard that theory on the internet. The lizard thing, no. Yeah.

No, I don't know. I mean, I don't know exactly what the objective is, except I would agree with Dr. Jacobson that the ultimate objective is planetary acquisition. It's conquest by stealth, and nobody really knows what they're up to. I do believe that elements of the United States government are completely aware of this.

and are maybe, hopefully, trying to figure out what's happening, what the end game is. On your point about the greys and the synchronized recollections, I've never done psychedelic drugs in my life. I have a number of friends who have, and I have heard stories of people seeing weird little grey alien-looking demon kind of things.

on alternately gray or green, but they sound like a popular description of an alien. And I think psychedelics are very bad and I don't encourage people to do it. I think it opens you up to bad spiritual things. But I do buy their experience. I think they're experiencing something real and nefarious and similar to what you're describing. Do you think...

there is a connection between these two perceived phenomena? That's a very interesting question. I think that, remember I said that the aliens implant screen memories? Yeah. So that when an abductee attempts conscious recall, they're presented with a false memory first. Yeah. And in order to get to the real memory, they have to circumvent that false memory. Well, I mentioned there's a number of ways that the techniques that people use to do this. One of them is hypnotic regression.

I think what happens with a lot of people who take psychedelics, ayahuasca, psilocybin, that encounter the typical gray alien, what's happening is that they are unintentionally circumventing screen memories. And these real memories are suddenly surfacing. So the psychedelic is...

causing their subconscious to bring up real memories that relate to their abduction episodes.

That's one thing that I think may be happening. There's some other possibilities there as well. That's it. Because rather than, my view of it was, they're taking these drugs, they think they're hallucinating something, but sometimes they think they're piercing through the veil, man, and they're seeing something real. And my view is, they are seeing something that is real. Spiritual, not corporeal, but real.

but spiritual and bad and nefarious. But what you're saying is, no, no, they're not seeing something real. They're hallucinating something that comes from a real memory that they have suppressed of a physical phenomenon. Yes. I think that... That's interesting. That's like the mirror image of my view of it. But it is connected. There's a lot I could say about psychedelics. I think that, you know, in my opinion...

What happens, and this is just a theory of mine, what happens when you take psychedelics is, let's imagine that there's an internet of consciousness. Yeah. Okay? And we can think, we're very familiar with this idea because we have the actual internet. Right. And you can be sitting here in Nashville, I can be sitting in Bozeman, Montana. Yeah.

And even though we are hundreds of miles apart, you and I could be interfacing as if we were in the same room. So essentially, our consciousness, our consciousnesses, our sentience is interfacing over, I mean, instantaneous. Despite physical distance. Despite the physical distance. And in the same way, I think it might be that there is like an internet of consciousness. And when you take a psychedelic, you plug into it.

And if there are other things, let's say non-human entities who are plugged into this Internet of Consciousness, then you can interface with them. It's like a mode of a platform of...

that facilitates communication. And again, because we live in the modern age, this isn't that far-fetched. I mean, we do the same thing. We just do it through... I mean, the telephone does it. It's not even that new a technology. We do it through the agency of technology. And like the internet, just as a raw numbers thing,

Most of the things you're going to encounter are probably very bad for you. I would agree with that. And I think that's precisely why it's so dangerous. I think we're playing with fire. I think that people are interfacing with intelligences that are vastly superior to them and also incalculably older than the human species.

And so we're playing with fire. When you interface with those kinds of entities, you subject yourself to manipulation. I mean, you open yourself up to manipulation. I think this is part of the reason why...

In the Hebrew Old Testament, there's a prohibition of contact with these kinds of entities. Yeah, yeah. Trying to interface with the dead or with demons or whatever. Divination. I always say, you know, the reason... Even many modern Christians will say, oh, that's all bunk, psychics and the occult and everything. They say...

I don't think that God prohibits it because it's a waste of your time. Right. I think he prohibits it because it's bad for you and real. That's right. And again, having a casual conversation about alien abduction like this, it makes me sound like a nut job. But you have to understand, as I keep saying, and this is what I want the audience to understand, there is a, again, I'm going to use the word conclusive body of evidence. Yeah.

There are millions of people who have the exact same testimony, physical evidence. And it's probably, you know, people that we all know, some of these individuals. So you have, I'm sure, going to be listening to this discussion. You have a lot of people who are going to be thinking this guy is completely insane.

This dude's a whack job. He's completely out of his mind. Well, I'll preempt this a little bit right now. If you, if it's 2% of the population, sorry, if you think you've had an experience like this, I want to see it in the comments. Oh, God. I want to see it, and I want to hear, I want details in the comments. Well, I doubt you'll get details, but then you'll have a portion of the audience watching this who's going, oh, my God.

That's me. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I want that story in the comments. And I wouldn't be sitting here saying that if that were not the case. I know the data, and I interact with abductees, and it conforms precisely with the data. Look, in principle, something like what you're describing, I'm not necessarily opposed to, because the sons of God mated with the daughters of men, and I believe that.

So, all right, we've done the weird three-finger things in Peru, and we've done the gray men and the hybrids. Before I let you go, I know we're running long, but that's how it goes. And you still have a little cigar left. I still have some. Yeah. This is the hourglass. This is right. It is. That's how I measure a lot of my time and work, actually. And recreation. Giants.

So there are these, you see giants in mythology, you see giants in the Bible, you see giants, some kind of giant-like thing, and you see giants in all of the weird internet forums where they say they've discovered giants in random places all over the world. Do you believe in that? And what is that? Working within the biblical framework here, within the biblical context, what was the

humanity, what was mankind created to do fundamentally? What were we created to do? I contend that we were created for two purposes, two primary purposes. Number one, to fellowship in the family of God, to commune with our Maker. Walk in the garden with God. Precisely. To enjoy the presence of our Maker and to communicate with other intelligent beings that are part of the family.

who I, in my book, I designate as the sons of God. We are also going to become sons of God, those of us who believe in Christ. We're going to be given the power to become the sons of God. That power, by the way, is the resurrection. But there are other sons of God.

Who you referenced earlier, right, in regard to the giants. The giants, yes. This is the other... We've gone through the Peruvian three-fingered things, and we've hit the little gray men. But this is the last... I know I've kept you late, but what about the giants, which not appear in mythology, in the Bible, in...

Let me complete this thought, and then we'll transition to that, because this is a very important point, and I think you might agree with what I'm about to say. So we were created to interface with our Maker, to commune with the Maker. That's our primary purpose. Secondarily...

The second purpose is to govern the earth. I mean, this is working from the biblical paradigm, right? Name the animals. Exactly. To govern the earth, to be a vice regent for the king of heaven on planet earth. That's what we were supposed to do. So if human beings, if our original design, if Adam was created as

designed to interface with his maker and his elder siblings, again, who I believe are our elder siblings are the sons of God who pre-exist us, and we'll talk about them in a minute, then what kind of communicative capacity do we have? I mean, what does that mean? Because we know that communication...

with God, those of us who are of the Christian faith, we believe that communication with God is, it goes beyond the modulation of our vocal cords. The way that we communicate with each other is verbally, through speech. But all Christians believe, whether they know it or not, that they can commune with the Father on a different level, on a spiritual level, right? Because we know that

prayer, you can pray, a mute can still pray. Yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah, of course. And even, you know, like our Lord gives us the Lord's Prayer in the Gospels, and he says, when you pray, say, our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. I hope most of us out there know the prayer, and if you don't, learn it and pray it. So there is spoken prayer or silent prayer, but that's still mediated by language. That's right. The only way we can communicate is by language because we're incarnate creatures.

But there is also a kind of meditative prayer that does not necessarily require language, even in your own mind. Right, but it's still a mode of communication, is it not? Yes, yeah. So if we were created to interface and communicate with our maker, then that means that we have capabilities that we don't really acknowledge, we don't really think about as...

abilities that are innate to the human species. And I think some of this, we designate this as psychic. So in other words, I would say, I believe that the human species is fundamentally a telepathic species. I think that Adam and Eve were telepathic, that they, again,

But then why did they have ears? Remembering that we were created to interface with the maker, right? I mean, that's fundamentally what we were created to do. So I think that we have communication capabilities that we've forgotten, that are latent. And I think that some of this is...

is stimulated when people take psychedelics. So when people activate something in their brain through a chemical compound, like ayahuasca or psilocybin, they reawaken some latent ability to communicate in a way that transcends verbal. But are we not, not to be pedantic or obsessive on the point, but

It always seems to me that we were made to speak. Meaning, we have bodies, we have vocal cords, we have mouths, we have tongues and ears. God tells us to name the animals and everything, all the plants and everything. And two bodies, Adam and Eve, say, in order to communicate with each other, it doesn't seem to me they would communicate telepathically. I think they'd communicate in time and space. I think they do both.

I think they do both. Ironically, the human species is, or I should rather, I should probably say the post-human species that's coming is going to communicate at the speed of thought because of technology. Right, right. And actually, there is a parallel when a couple's been married for a long time. They kind of can read each other's minds. You don't really, you can have conversations silently. We know that we are empathic.

because we know that animals are empathic. Certain animals are empathic. Like people have their pets, especially dogs, know they can discern the emotional state of the owner. Yeah, yeah.

And there's a lot of research on that. Your pet, your dog especially, can sometimes detect things, your emotional state, even if you are not consciously displaying that you're sad or depressed or something like that. So that's like there's something there. There's something metaphysical happening that we don't really understand. It's connected to consciousness, right?

And I think these are innate abilities that we've lost because we have degraded. We have, you know, the original prototype of our species was much more magnificent than we are. I mean, Adam and Eve weren't, you know, we are. They were incorrupt. Exactly. We are really crappy versions of Adam.

And indeed, in the resurrection, which you mentioned, when our Lord is resurrected, sometimes even his best friends have trouble quite recognizing him. He's in a body. He's in his body. Yeah, but it's a glorified body, which has all these traits that are unusual. But he still has the marks of the crucifixion. Yes, you can touch it. Thomas can touch it. That's right. But also, he can walk through doors. That's right. And also, he can traverse vast distances immediately. And also, there are all these...

qualities, which St. Thomas Aquinas describes in great detail, of the glorified body. So I'm totally on board with that. Now, you mentioned that we have these elder siblings going way, way back to the old garden days, and you identify them with the giants, or no? Well, we are introduced in the biblical narrative to these beings who are identified as the sons of God. And in Job, we read that the

The morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy when the foundations of the earth were being laid. So this communicates preexistence. So there's these beings who are sons of God and that terminology is not incidental. This familial terminology in the Bible is not incidental. It's there for a reason. It's communicating that there's a family. Yeah.

And there were sons of God in existence in the universe before the creation of Adam. They were shouting for joy when the foundations of the earth were being laid. But Christ is the only begotten son of God. Christ is the only begotten son of God. He's the preeminent. Begotten, I guess begotten is an important word there. He's the preeminent son.

So there are sons of God, according to the biblical narrative, that clearly pre-exist us. They're not us. They're not part of the human species. They are both pre-existent and preeminent. And they are heavenly beings, let's say. Angels. They're angelic beings. The word angel is...

It's a description of occupation rather than a classification of kind. So angel just means messenger, an envoy, one who is sent. In fact, in the Old Testament, human beings are described as angels when they're functioning in the capacity of an envoy. Angel in Hebrew is malak.

and in Greek is angelos, it just means a messenger. Right, and to bring up St. Thomas again, as I like to do, there are these classification of all of these different beings, and what we describe as angels are sort of like the lowest tier of them. So there are all these other, you know, seraphim and cherubim. And among them are the sons of God, right? So getting to the topic of the giants, you referenced Genesis 6, right?

And this is one of the references to the sons of God is in Genesis 6, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful, and they decided to take wives from among them, and they copulated with them. And the women conceived and gave birth to giants. This is what's being referenced in Genesis 6. And I think that Genesis, that story, that narrative,

is elaborated on in the book of Enoch, 1 Enoch, which we talked about last time. And that story, the gods descending to the earth, copulating with human, becoming enamored of human women, copulating with them, the women conceive and give birth to giants, that's like the flood myths, it's ubiquitous. Yeah.

across all of the primary civilizations on Earth. So now, are they... Because some would read that and say, well, this is describing the age of the heroes or something, or it's not... It doesn't literally mean physically gigantic, but... Well, according to the Bible, they're giants. Yeah, sure. Is... Do these beings...

to, you know, reports of some giant skeleton found in North America or something? Or no, is that different? Yes. Trying to tie it all into like the little guys in Peru and all, you know, is it the same thing? No, I don't know that I could tie it into that specifically. But at least the big guys in North America. So, so,

So, in Genesis 6, you read that the Nephilim, the giants, were in the earth in those days and also after that. And then when you read the Old Testament, you find this allusion to the antediluvian, the pre-flood giants, that resulted from the...

Sons of God breeding with the daughters of men and producing this hybrid race of giants. Again, that story is, there's an expanded version of that story in the book of Enoch. And then you have giants in the post-flood world.

You have the giants who are inhabiting the promised land. Yeah. Who Joshua's contending with. Joshua and the Hebrews are contending with giants in the promised land. Of course, you have Goliath and so forth. And you have legends of giants all over the earth. Yeah, yeah.

And so, yes, I do believe that those giants, that that's the lineage of the original giants from the pre-Flood world, that those are the Nephilim or the offspring, the descendants of the Nephilim. And they have various names, like the different descendants of the Nephilim in the Old Testament, like the Anakim, for example.

And so those giants are the direct relatives of the original ones that were produced through the union of angels and humans, the sons of God and the daughters of man. So then the ones that people dig up now all over the world, those, they would have died pre-flood or now? Not necessarily, no. I mean, the giants that the ancient Hebrews contended with were after the flood. And

I mean, there's, so here in the United States, back in the, at the turn of the century, turn of the 20th century, newspapers all over the country were reporting the discovery of the remains of gigantic humanoids, of giants, primarily being discovered in the mounds. And, and at one time there was, there was tens of thousands of mounds east of the Mississippi, right?

And in some of those mounds, even according to the Smithsonian's own records, there were people, the remains of people of unusually large stature were discovered. And some of this is documented right in the Smithsonian's records. And nobody knows what happened to the bones. I suspect that they've been secreted away to some repository that the Smithsonian has somewhere, probably in Washington, D.C.

And you find similar accounts all over the world. I mean, I've investigated giants in various parts of the world, Peru as well. And in Peru, there's, you know, the history of the conquest of Peru is,

comes from a collection of documents that were written by the priests, primarily by the priests who came to the New World after the conquest or who came with the conquistadors. Oh, right. You're not saying not the indigenous priests of England. No, no, no. The Catholic priests came over and they were involved in an enterprise to extirpate idolatry in Peru. Yeah.

And these are the records from which we derive the history of the conquest of the Inca Empire, those same historical documents. And this is just to give you an example of how pervasive this is. And I was in Peru investigating giants and megaliths and stuff like that years ago. And I met with a well-known, a prestigious archaeologist. He, at the time, he was giving, not at the time that I met with him, but he was saying

He was about to travel to Washington, D.C. and give a lecture on the Inca. His last name was de la Vega. And I remember interviewing him in a coffee shop in Puno. And I asked him, are there any references to giants in the historical records of Peru? And the historians, they have access to the digital files of the originals, right? They're in a library in Lima. And he goes...

I don't think so. I'm not familiar with any of that. Okay. So I go back to my hotel and the next morning we're getting ready to leave and head out to film something. And he comes walking into the hotel and he's got a big smile on his face and he said, you know, you got me wondering about this question of whether or not there's accounts of giants in the historical record. So I went into the record, into the digital files, and I did a search just to see if

And he said, "I can't believe how many accounts there are of giants in the historical record." He said, "This is just a sample of them. I quickly highlighted some for you." And he gave me a CD. And when I looked at the CD, it was all these different chroniclers from different periods, from the days immediately following the conquest in the 1530s all the way up to like the 1600s.

And he had gone in and highlighted, and this was not all of them. This was just the ones that he quickly went in and found for me because he was curious. And there were dozens of references to the bones of giants that were discovered all over Peru.

And we're not talking about giant sloths. We're not talking about dinosaur bones. We are clearly talking about humanoids. I mentioned St. Augustine earlier. St. Augustine claims to have discovered the tooth of a giant, the molar of a giant. It says it would be the size of 50 human molars or something like that. Yeah, and I'll give you an example. In one case, a specific example, I believe this comes from the records, and I could be wrong about this, from a priest named Arriaga. I could be wrong about... There was a bunch of different guys who...

who wrote in the aftermath of the conquest whose works, that's the historical documentation from which we derive the history of the conquest of Peru. And in this particular case, after the Spaniards conquered Peru,

In the wake of that conquest came two groups. You had the representatives of the Church of Rome, the priests, and then you had, coming with them, you had the representatives of the Spanish crown. They were called the visitadores. And so...

These individuals came to Peru. The priests were interested, obviously, in converting the populace to Catholicism. And the visitadores were there to keep an eye on things for the king of Spain because there was something called the royal fifth. A fifth of all the treasure had to go back to the crown, right? So they were there. And they were making very meticulous records, right? And...

And there was a program of extirpation of idolatry. In other words, the extermination of idolatry among the indigenous people in Peru. And it was systematic. They would go from town to town and what they would do, the priests, the visitadores and their cadre of whoever was with them, probably soldiers and so forth. And they would go into a village and they would inquire of the indigenous people about

they would want to know what their waka was. And a waka in Perus is a sacred place. It could be an object, it could be a place. It's what the indigenous people are worshiping, what they're venerating. And so they, and often cases they're idols, right? Or altars or something like this. And so in this program of extirpation of idolatry, they would identify what's being worshiped and then they would destroy it, right? The priests and the visitadores are there because they're also collecting artifacts of gold and silver or whatever else.

And they are meticulously recording these events. And in one case, they walked into a village and it's usually like an idol that they burn or an altar, like I said, that they'll destroy. But in this one particular case, they walk into a village and they inquire of the villagers of the indigenous people what their waka was. What are they? Where are their gods that they're worshiping?

And because they didn't see any altar and there was no indication of what they were worshiping. And the natives told them that their huaca or their idols were in a cave. So the Spanish, the priest and the visitadores, the representatives of the crown, they went into the cave.

And they record that, the priest specifically records that when they went into the cave, the first thing they encountered was, and these are his words, dead Gentiles laying on the ground. And they surmised that they had been sacrificed. Yeah, yeah. So they penetrate further into the cave. And what do they find? They find that the villagers were worshiping three gigantic corpses.

that had been seated, like they're seated in a sitting position and they're dressed in cumbia. And cumbia is like the traditional garb of the indigenous people. And I don't remember if it was Arriaga, but it was one of the, the priest records that the bodies were six times the size of a normal man. And they had the bodies removed from the cave and burned in the village.

That's right out of the same documents that we derive the history of the conquest of Peru. And that's just one of dozens of examples of the bodies of giants being discovered in Peru post-conquest.

And the same can be said and it's it's very reminiscent of what was happening here in the United States with the Smithsonian Now now some of that under and I think we need to make a note here that that Some of the accounts of Giants being discovered in the mounds Maybe even the majority of the accounts were sensationalized Yeah, because back in the you know back at the turn of the century here in America, obviously the newspapers there's a lot of competition and

And so they would sensationalize stories. But, you know, private revelation and miracles really do happen and are inexplicable by natural means. And also plenty of people dream things up and have hoaxes. The fact that there are hoaxes and hallucinations does not negate the fact that there's real things. No, and I have no doubt that although there was a lot of...

sensationalization happening in the periodicals back at the turn of the century, a lot of those stories were true. Certainly the ones that were recorded by the Smithsonian itself, right? I went to Sardinia. I've investigated giants on the island of Sardinia on three separate occasions. And Sardinia is ground zero for anyone who's interested in investigating giants, or at least it used to be.

Because in Sardinia, you have people, or you did at least a decade or so ago when I was there, and I've been back and forth, but I was interviewing a lot of the villagers in Sardinia, a lot of the people living in Sardinia, by the way, is the island south of Corsica. It's part of Italy. Yeah, yeah. But it's kind of its own thing. Western Mediterranean. They're Italian sort of, but it's kind of its own thing. Right. They have kind of their own separate culture from the mainland Italians there.

Beautiful island, by the way, beautiful people. And I'm traveling all around Sardinia interviewing people, and I am hearing contemporary stories from people who have themselves experienced

dug up the bones of giants. And of course, the skeptics will say, no, no, no, no, they were digging up mastodons and giant sloths and so forth. No. There was a time in Sardinia when they were engaging in a process of industrialization and they were updating their roads and they were digging out foundations for buildings. And I think this began sometime around the 40s

And it continued for a few decades and people were beginning to use mechanized forms of agriculture. So rather than the horse and plow, they were now getting tractors and digging deeper into their soil. And during this period of time, it was not uncommon for farmers

the people out there and they're digging up their fields in the process of doing that to unearth the bones of giants. And it was common knowledge. These were the old timers I was talking to. So a lot of these people have probably since passed away. One of the guys I talked to was like 101 years old telling me stories like this.

I talked to dozens of people in Sardinia. And they would dig up these bones and when they would dig up, let's say they're plowing, they're filled with the tractor, they dig up skeletal remains, unusually large skeletal remains. They would always get excited. And the first thing that they would do is they would look for the hands. Why? Because oftentimes the hands had rings, the fingers had rings.

golden rings or silver or precious jewels and they would they wanted to take the rings and classic Italians they got a priceless discovery and what do they do they go for the gold well I'm Italian too I'm Italian American so so they so we're not talking about giant sloths here we're not talking about dinosaurs last time I checked dinosaurs don't wear jewelry and they would often find pendants around the neck bracelets

And they would keep it quiet, obviously, because they didn't want the people from the university to come and take the artifacts that they had discovered. I love the idea not to make too

too much light of this is very interesting. And I'm, I, I buy this. I, I was a little more skeptical on the green men, but I, I buy this stuff. Great. But I, a gray man, but I love the, uh, I love the idea that the Sardinian giants, the Italian giants, unlike the Peruvian ones or whatever, the North American ones, they just look like my grandpa. Basically they got like gold chains and bracelets and stuff, you know? I, yeah. And it, it was, uh, I heard so many stories, so many stories, um,

I'll give you one example. There's a church in Sardinia, a very old church called Anastasia, and it's in the province of Sadara. And as is common around the world, Catholic churches and cathedrals are often built on top of temples, pagan temples. Whatever the old one was. Exactly. And so a lot of Catholic churches are sitting on ruins.

And certainly in Sardinia, this is the case. And the Church of Anastasia is sitting on Neurogic ruins.

And the Neurogic culture is a very ancient culture. It's very mysterious. I think it's Canaanitish. And the Neurogic people were megalith builders. They built over 30,000 megalithic towers on the island of Sardinia. On one island, over 30,000 megalithic towers in the Cyclopean style. Last time we talked about Cyclopean architecture. Albeit cruder than what you find, for example, in Peru and Sacsayhuaman and so forth, which was the topic for our last discussion. Yeah.

And aside from the towers, there was also hundreds of megalithic tombs. And these tombs to this day are called the tombs of the giants.

And the tombs and the towers, they're associated. Oftentimes you'll find, if you find a tomb of the giant, you'll find the remains of a tower, which are called nuraghi. Nuraghi are the towers. And some of these towers were 100 feet tall, stone towers built in the Cyclopean megalithic style. And so the Church of Anastasia was built on top of one of these nuraghi complexes. And I interviewed two individuals,

who were hired by the University in Cagetti, the capital of Sardinia. They were hired to excavate at the site. And the procedure was that they would go, they were going to excavate the Nuraghi ruins, the Nuragic ruins, in the vicinity of the church. The church is literally sitting right on top of the site. It's just a small church, like a chapel almost.

I've been there. And they would... The procedure was they would... And they worked at two different times. One worked from like... I don't recall off the top of my head the dates that they were there. I think one was like late 80s and then the other one was...

worked in the early 90s. So they were not working contemporaneously. These are two different testimonies from two different individuals who worked two different periods of time at the same site. And the procedure was that they would excavate the ruins and all of the artifacts would go into the church. So they set up tables on the church, they'd excavate the ruins and whatever artifacts they found would be deposited into the church. And then somebody mysteriously would come at night and remove all the artifacts. Well,

They discovered lots of the typical neurologic artifacts that one finds in Sardinia. But among these mundane artifacts, they were uncovering the bodies, the skeletal remains of giants routinely. And when we say giants, we're talking individuals who are 9 to 15 feet tall, really. Let's say 9, 10, 11, and 12 feet tall primarily from their descriptions.

And they described to me in great detail what they were discovering and how they would take the different parts of the body. Sometimes the skeletal remains were very well preserved and they would deposit them in the church. I remember one of the individuals told me that his wife was working with him one day and they're excavating and they discovered this large skull and it still had the vertebrae attached.

And it was so large that it took both of them to carry it into the church. So he had the skull in his arms and she was carrying the vertebrae. And they went and deposited it into the church. And sometimes they would find entire skeletons and lay them out in the church. He found three skeletons. I forget which of these two individuals. Found three skeletons together. And all of them were at least nine feet long.

And he even informed his bosses from the university, hey, I found these gigantic skeletons. What do I do with them? Because the church was getting filled up with artifacts. They were extracting so many artifacts. The church was just getting filled up with artifacts. And the person informed him, lay the skeletons out in the yard next to the church. And they did that. They laid three skeletons out, nine feet tall each. And the next morning they were gone.

Both of these individuals, again, not working contemporaneously, working one in the late 90s or one in the late 80s and the other in the early 90s at the same site. And they discovered, they unearthed gigantic chalices, gigantic plates. The one individual told me that they...

They were trying to open, that they were excavating a tower, one of these, the remains of a, of a Nooragi tower. And that, and it was sealed and they were able to open, open it up. And they went inside and he said that when they walked inside with their flashlights or crawled inside, they were confronted with this gigantic humanoid sitting at a table and he was dead and

And he was very well-preserved. It was like he was hermetically sealed inside of this. Whatever happened, he got hermetically sealed inside of this tower. And he's dead, seated at a gigantic table, sitting on a gigantic chair. And in front of him was a gigantic plate and a gigantic chalice. And on the plate were oysters that he had been eating. And he estimated that this guy had to be about 12 feet tall. And he was very well-preserved.

And they took that body and they laid it out in the church. And the next day it was gone. And he even told me one time, one of these particular individuals told me that they were running out of room to put the artifacts because they were told strictly to put all of the artifacts in the church, except for in that case with those bodies. Skeletons. And they were getting frustrated because they were filling up the church with artifacts so quickly they needed more space. So he went to talk to his boss.

And he said, hey, we need another place to put artifacts. Can we, like, is there, like, another building that we can rent or something? And this person, his boss, inexplicably became very agitated and told him, mind your effing business. Just put the artifacts in the church and shut your mouth.

A very Italian response. And so he even told me, one of the individuals told me the name of a professor that they were working with from the University of Cagetti, who was fully aware of what was being unearthed at the Church of Anastasia. I want to know what happened with the giant skeletons and all the artifacts, but I've kept you too long, so I think that has to be the cliffhanger for our next conversation. I've got a lot more stories about giants, so that's...

We'll have to do a part three. In the meantime, go get the book Birthright. Timothy Alberino. Thank you, sir. My pleasure.