Viral Guitar Riffs and Prison Gigs w/Ben Gallaher :: Ep 61 Try That in a Small Town Podcast
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15 locations at eSpaces.com. That's eSpaces.com. eSpaces.com. That's the thing. It's dangerous climbing a ladder, man. That ladder never ends. You know, so it's a... I find myself...

like kind of enjoying where I'm at and always pushing it. I mean, I'm pushing it every single day, but not missing where I'm at because it's dangerous to live on what's next, what's next, what's next. And you miss what, you know, everything that got you to this point. Yeah. And that's why it's important to get married before, like, like you get a record deal, then go ahead and get married that way before she knows what's going to happen. It's good or bad. You don't know. Just go ahead and lock her in. Yeah.

And kudos to you with Monica. She's lovely. Y'all's stuff is so guitar driven and it's the intro riff. As soon as those songs come on, you know exactly what it is. Well, that's not really a thing anymore.

in country as much. Rock things, it was always a thing in rock, right? It was so identifiable by that intro riff. That's part of the songwriting. Before you even get to the lyrical hook, you know, it's a whole musical hook from the top. What's it like

Cutting a record in there. Because I hadn't seen that with Neil. What's it like? Well, I'll tell you this. I'm upstairs at Pat's studio. And he's downstairs with Pat with a baseball bat hitting the top of the rafter when I'm not hitting the note right.

I can see that. That's amazing. That is so clear to see. What are you doing? That's amazing. I'm not an asshole. No. He gets a little Tommy Tough Nuts with me out there. The Try That in a Small Town podcast begins now. You always do that? No, I'm just starting something new. And? And...

Welcome back to the Try That in a Small Town podcast. We have the stopwatch going. We're here at the Patriot Mobile Studios. We got Kayla, we got Trash, we got TK. Tonight is going to be pretty fun, y'all. Pretty fun. You forgot to introduce yourself.

I'm Kurt Fondue. That's the nickname Neil gave me. It's very cheesy or chocolatey, however you prefer. Tonight, you know, we talk about this a lot. How do we go viral? How do we go viral? We got somebody that went viral. He's got a new EP. He's got a new single. It's called what? Bullet. Bullet. Welcome Ben Geller. Yeah.

Yes. We were just laughing before we got on here. How many people say Ben Gallagher? Like the comedian. Every single one of them. Yeah. He showed up to shows, marquee.

tonight oh no and gallagher what are you talking about so now it's in the rider yeah thousand dollar fine so you got people wearing like trash bags on the front row thinking you're gonna do the watermelon trick on him i thought you were gonna bring some watermelon he does sometimes do you get asked that on radio i mean like when you're out on radio they do they bring up the last name at all yeah

It was like, this is a classic. Right before we're going on stage of his radio show and the PD's announcing, you know, or somebody comes out and announces. And I'll say like, hey, it's Gallagher. It's like Gallagher, but no second G. Oh yeah, got it, got it, got it. He gets up there and he does his thing. It's like...

Man, we're fired up to have you. Asheville, welcome. Ben Gallagher. Two seconds before we had just talked about it. What are you going to do, man? Hey, you know what? Aldine had the same problem. We were just going to say that. Used to be saying it back in the old days. Even still, though. No, they still do it today. Jason Aldine. Aldine. No. Dude. Oh, I have buddies that do it. All the time. Yep.

I can't tell you how many talk shows we were on. The PR person goes up and says, okay, it's Jason Aldean. And then they introduce it. Jason Aldean. And we play. Okay, there it is. So maybe you're onto something.

I could be, man. I don't know. I hope. Thank you all for having me. I'm pumped to be here. Tell our listeners where you're from, Ben. Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania. The redneck sound of Pennsylvania. So, Pennsylvania. What's eastern or western? Kind of central. I'm in between Pittsburgh and Philly. Is that where the Amish are? Nice. Okay.

I'm part Amish. No, I'm just kidding. We had an Amish Mennonite conversation. How much do you know about the Mennonites or Amish? Do you know what a Mennonite is? Not a lot. Okay. Either do we. He would know more about Amish. We learned a lot. Yeah, he would know more about the Amish than he would Mennonites. I don't think there's that many Mennonites up there. They're all down here. Well, the Amish won the election for PA. Yeah, you're right about that. Really? Oh, yeah. Did you see all those videos? Yeah.

No kidding. Oh, yeah. I had no idea. Is Pennsylvania where they say yuns? Yuns. Yuns? How yuns doing? How yuns doing? Gotta go up with it. Oh. Yeah. See? I like those Amish. That does sound Amish. I do. I like those Amish and...

Mennonites, they really had no chance against the Amish. Well, Tully called the Mennonites posers. They are posers. I don't know much. I don't know enough about Mennonites. They're not sacrificing anything, man. Mennonites have cell phones and pickup trucks. Some of them have power running to their homes. I don't know. I like some Mennonites. I don't know how you could call it just because you grow a tomato.

You know, it doesn't make you Amish. Hey, do you guys know of anybody that has complained or said that they felt anything weird or off after having the COVID vaccine? Yes.

Really? Yes. Actually, yeah, Kalo, and there's this study, Dr. Peter McCullough, I just sounded here, a study that's called Risk Stratification for Future Cardiac Arrest After the Jab. It's really interesting. And there's alarming rates on rise in cardiac events among healthy people. I mean, I've seen so many stories and read so many stories about young athletes who,

you know, having cardiac issues. And they never did before. They're perfectly healthy people. Healthy in shape. So a study found that like little patches of heart inflammation that doctors miss could be building up

actually leads to like sudden heart attacks, you know, during exercise and, you know, even when you're sleeping. Yeah. That's why the wellness company created the three in one ultimate spike detox made with natural ingredients. Yeah. It's all real ingredients, right? It's all natural. It helps clear your body of spike proteins, but also reduces inflammation.

And supports heart health. And don't wait until symptoms come on. Try the only formula that is approved and used by Dr. McCullough. And you've got to respect the guy. I mean, he's a top freedom-fighting doctor who risked it all, just like we did when we wrote the song.

You got to respect the man. So head over to TWC.health/smalltown. Repeat it TWC.health/smalltown. Yeah, you can put in the code and you get 10% off. Exactly. Small town. Free shipping. Code is small town. You get free shipping. Free shipping. No reason not to do it. And get back to that pre-COVID feeling. So Ben, when did you leave Pennsylvania and come here and why? Give us a backstory. Yeah.

2011 is when I moved from Pennsylvania. I started playing guitar when I was six. Six? And drums. And drums. A little research. Not even in the US. You played drums. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You can find that on the Wide World Web. I found it out this morning. The Wide World Web. Kalo did his homework. Well, good. I started beating on...

soup cams with pencils before, like when I was five and my folks saw that. So they got me a drum set and

And then not long after, they got me a guitar, and I figured out later... And your parents are rich. No. They just didn't want you to play drums in the house. That's it. Okay. And no, I just took to the guitar. It just fit me. I had a couple lessons early on, but honestly, it's a total God thing. I mean, nobody in my family was musical at all, and I took to it, and it...

from then on is when I knew this was what I was supposed to do. Okay, so go back. When did you start guitar? What age? Six. Oh my gosh. I couldn't add it. When did you start playing? 17. Yeah, yeah. I was playing piano as a young lad. We're still trying to get Kurt to play guitar on the show. He won't pick one up. Why not? He won't back me up.

The passion's gone. That's the passion. Let me ask you a question. When you started, so I started playing around eight or nine bass. Did you have that point where you, because I remember I got my first bass, I was eight or nine, and I played it a lot for like a few weeks and months, and I put it away for a little bit.

Maybe like a year, and then I just picked it up one day and just never put it down. Was it the same thing, or did you just pick it up at six and just continue it? There was times I got away from it, but not for very long. But then that moment when it clicked, I remember that specific moment when I picked it up and I never put it back down, which is interesting at that young age. I think it goes from this crazy pipe dream to, for me, when I was like,

early high school and then middle high middle high school is when it flipped where it's like no like i'm deaf like i'm moving to nashville in like a couple years that's where it flips from so did you grow up listening i want to do this and then no i'm gonna do it that's amazing were you listening to country music like exclusively as a kid or was it kind of everything or what inspired you strictly 90s country yes i didn't get into rock and roll until high school wow

Because that's all my folks had playing in the house. So that's all I was exposed to. So give us some of the artists, like the 90s country stuff. Brooks and Dunn and Tracy Lawrence, Tracy Bird, John Anderson. I mean, Blackhawk. I got down to all that, you know. And then that guitar playing in like, you know, some of the Alan Jackson stuff, Brent Mason. I was like, what is going? It's a chicken-picking thing. Yeah.

And my music now does not sound like 90s country at all. But I always thought you can be inspired by music that may not sound like the music you make, but it helps you. You're influenced by it. I love that. I guarantee you this kid right here could sing every word to every song that we've had cut.

Album cuts, not singles. He knows them all. Really? All of them. It blew my mind. I'm a massive Jason fan, and all those records. Please continue. Extend this segment. But mainly the bass lines inspire you to be a better guitar player. And particularly songs that these guys are a part of. They're like, man, I don't really hear the bass in that.

I wore those records out. Okay. I love that. To the point where they wouldn't even play anymore. Like, no shit. And I remember looking in the credits, and y'all just talked about this recently on one of the episodes on Flippin' Through the Book. That's kind of not existing as much anymore. But I think maybe it could have been a wide open record, and I'm looking at it, and it's

Man, this guy's name is on all these songs. Here's this Neil Thrasher guy. He's writing all these my favorite songs. Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. He's pretty, he's okay. And we wrote one day. And I had no idea. Well, how did you guys meet then? Yeah. What was the connection? How did you guys get together? So when I was signed at Sony, Jim Cattino actually is the one that first put us together. Love Jim. Yep. And this was probably 2015 or 2016 maybe. Yeah, right around there.

And, you know, that's a big deal to write with. I mean, it's a massive deal to write with somebody like that, you know, especially because I knew all the songs. It's like, holy shit. He knew all the album cuts. He was blowing my mind. I'm like, you know, he's looking at, you know, album cuts that I'd forgotten about. You know what's funny? Why did they do them all? A lot of people, they'll talk about the My Kind of Party album as like the

big album. But you know, we hear wide open album. Even my son, like, like,

That's the album he loves the most as well. It's like Michael Jackson. Everybody thinks Thriller, but Off the Wall right before it was the one that kind of ascended him there. Off the Wall, what a great album. So Jason Aldean, Michael Jackson. Did you see what we did there? Ben, is this adding up to you making sense now? It's starting to. Hey, Relentless record was badass. Well, yeah.

We kind of win the take on that one. Look, we hit a speed bump with Laugh Till We Cried. That was not a speed bump. It was a top five record. Look, we definitely lost some serious... Oh, sorry, Kalo. Yeah, we definitely lost some momentum. No, I'm kidding. Relentless was actually... We joke about it, but the actual song, Relentless, I don't know what it went to, 13 or 15. It kind of stalled some of the momentum he had started with the first record. Were you on that one, Telly?

What's that? Were you on Relentless? Maybe the bass line killed it. Yeah. But it's a good thing to talk about, though, because even we worked so hard to get to the Hicktown spot, right? And you first number one, and you're a big song, Emerald Sky. And you get to Relentless, and you're like, oh, well, no way this isn't going to keep rolling. So Johnny Cash, that did well, but it wasn't incredible. And then it just went Relentless. And Laugh To Be Cried was an amazing song.

probably just the wrong time. You know what I mean? Timing wise. But yeah, we, I remember on the bus thinking, well, we're, Aldean was talking about like, well, weird, this might be it. We might've. Yeah. We knew if we didn't come out of the box hot on wide open and you, and you can relate to this. And a lot of artists can, man, it's,

It's tough. And if you don't keep that momentum going, the momentum the other way is faster and quicker and more brutal. Very brutal. And so we knew that wide open had to come out strong. So Neil was all over that one. Thankful for that. Way to go, Neil. Yeah. You did it. I remember the first time hearing him sing, though, like that first writing session that we had. And we sit down and we start messing around and...

He starts singing, and I'm like, man, listen to that raw. Listen to that rasp, that raw. It was a rock thing to me. And I remember it wasn't long after that. Even after we got together again, it was like, man, I could put that kid's voice to tape, work his tail off. If I ever had the chance, it would have some, you know. Because the stuff you were cutting was good, but it wasn't what I was hearing at all.

Not with you. It was just... Ben, that's interesting with the voice because it is like a rock-sounding voice, but the fact that you grew up listening to all country, was your voice always like that? It's very unique. Did you always have that rasp? Yeah. Or did that kind of get developed when you listened to some more rock? No, it was kind of always there. So 90s country was like early on growing up, you know, and then...

you know jason and eric eric church um and the early keith urban records i got down to big time especially with being a guitar player like the golden road but you're a great guitar player you're a great and i always artists like you i wish had would just have the most success because it's it's

artists in every sense of the word you know you're writing singing but your guitar playing that's a whole nother thing that speaks you know so it's i remember after we wrote the first time years ago a decade ago yeah that's crazy dude it's crazy yeah what are you talking about yeah yeah well it happens yep but but i remember telling currently this is really that's real artist you know playing guitar it's really really impressive

What were you on? Was it Sony that you were on? I thought it was Warner then. Was it not Warner? It was Sony. Sony, okay. Yeah. And was it at the end of the deal that we were riding? I can't remember because I was trying to remember the timing of the ride. Yeah, it was. It was like maybe a year before. Give us the ups and downs, man. Is that why you didn't finish the demo? Yeah, I saw it. Sorry, Ben. Yeah, we never finished that demo, I don't think. It was towards the end of the deal, so. Maybe we get back on it. Yeah. I'm cutting soon. Yeah.

I signed at Sony in 2014. Okay. And a couple months after I signed, there was a regime change. Oh. So, and y'all know what that means, but for the listeners, it's like a bank. You know, somebody, the new guy comes in, a lot of times they'll blow out and clean house and restart with their people, right? I actually made it through that cut.

but it was never the same because the new Randy Goodman didn't never really have his stamp on me because he wasn't the original one to sign me. Gary Overton was. So fast forward, I was there and I had cut 18 songs in that span of time and on the shelf collecting a lot of dust on the bottle. And, uh,

turned inside five sides that I was jacked about and they're all excited. And then all of a sudden something happened and they got cold and said, Hey, we want you to go back in and cut some more stuff. This whole edgier thing is not, you know, we need you to be this more softer. Like the pop at that time, pop country was like smooth. That was like,

And after being there for like five years, I asked out. I remember the night I called Coutinho and me and him are boys still to this day. And I was like, that's it, dude. I'm not, I've been here for this long. And you know,

It's hard enough doing it with stuff that you love. I'll be damned if I'm going to go out and play shit that I hate. It's not me. You can't put my vocal on a Dan and Shay track. It's just like, you have to be genuine. I swear, the landscape, it's changed so much. We've talked about this all the time on this show. But I really feel like the type of artist that you are, if the landscape doesn't change, say COVID doesn't happen or say streaming doesn't,

have the foothold it has now. Like if this is, you know, like the way it used to be done with radio tour and radio. And I think you're already way more successful if the landscape doesn't change. Cause you can go out and play clubs, great show, great performer. When he really had to grow things grassroots where it doesn't work that way anymore. Grassroots is now done through DSPs, you know, and YouTube versus beating up the road and your work ethic and your ability to

I wish it was like, I don't want to say old days, but yeah, sure. I mean, 10 years ago, I wish you could had done that then, because I think you'd already be ahead of where you are. There's no doubt. I mean, he, he was, he's been light years away, um, ahead of these. Not that you're not going to get there. Yeah. No, but the frustration is real though. The frustration is real. You know, I've been in a van and trailer for like 10 years. Um, but yeah,

You see all this now's everything's TikTok and Instagram and stuff. And I'm here for it in terms of like, I think that's a great tool that can be utilized. But that also opens a door for new artists to skip a lot of steps. Amen. And I've watched it firsthand. And it's like, there is no substitute for getting out and playing in the clubs. That's why it's got to be so frustrating for you, for me.

Which is probably why. When you see that, these TikTok artists get big and they just, here you are, light years way ahead of them live as far as your chops go. But you're seeing it happen, though. You're seeing like a... It's got to be frustrating. You're seeing new artists come out with a hit and you don't hear from them again. It's happening. Yeah. Or they're not ready. A new artist will come out, have a hit, and then you won't... They'll disappear. And it's...

It's happening a lot. You know, you don't want that either. You know, you want the staying power, you know, but I think getting it's with an artist like you, timing, timing, like just the right time, the right song, you know,

you know, you'll, it's going to happen, you know, I've always just done what I did, well done what I do. So I never really chased anything, you know, as someone who's like, man, let's do it out, you know, let's do like a Morgan Wallen thing as a writing session. And I was like, you can't do Morgan better than Morgan. Like that's not what, you know, and, but point is like, I've never, I've always just, and I've like evolved and pushed it a little bit here and there. And I think that's, I think that's fantastic for an artist to evolve in that way. But,

But I'm not going to go out and chase something that somebody else is doing because that's working. Like, I'm going to do what I do. That's the best way to be unique and stand out is to be yourself and do what you do. That's right. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I don't think a lot of people get that, which is why you see some people that are one and done or whatever. It's like they're just not being genuine to who they are.

And it's such a, you know, I love your story, Perseverance, all that, because people think, you know, oh, you got a record deal. You're rich and famous, right? I mean, that's just what it kind of happens. So you're worth $5 million on Google. Yeah. It works.

I saw that and I think, I got to talk to him about this. You're really monetizing those socials, aren't you? Hey, man, that's awesome. I didn't know that. Did you go to Belmont? Did you graduate from there? I transferred in there. I'm still paying for it. Wasn't it one of your...

instructors or professors that sent some of your music to sony is that why you got it yeah so yeah i always think it's interesting because people are always wondering like how do you make it how do you get the published deal record deal and all that and uh and it's interesting that even for me i went to belmont i was actually there today um for the celebration of life for ben bond which is an amazing service you know amazing amazing guy and buddy and and a huge huge impact but

but such a, uh, such a moving, uh, celebration of life service is awesome. And, but I was there today and I thought about you going to Belmont too. And then that professor sending your music and you getting that deal. And it's kind of the same for me, like the, the, the, um,

you know, graduating itself, the diploma didn't really get you where you're going, but going to Belmont and meeting different people and stuff like that is something that set you on your way. So I thought it was kind of, kind of cool. We had that similarity a little bit that we utilize to not the diploma, but, but Belmont itself to get to music row, which is just a couple of blocks over, you know, for sure. No, I think fan a hundred percent.

And I think, too, like being out in the field, too, you learn more doing it than you do in a classroom. But we utilize Belmont for things other than that, you know. How many shows are you doing this year? We're about to be out all summer, man. That's great. That's the only way to do it. Thank God. Yeah. I love being on the road, man. I remember nights at Belmont, like I would –

stay up at night trying to figure out how to be how to get on on the road formed a band rented a van till I could buy one and we'd play every place you could imagine on the weekends um just because I was fixated on I'm a live guy I mean I feel and I like writing songs but I belong more on stage than I do you know writing every day strictly um

It's the cool thing about Ben, though. Let me chime in here. He's not one of these artists that's like, I've got to write everything. I've got to be a writer on everything. If he finds something, he'll cut it. There's not a lot of them left. Some of the biggest artists...

in our genre have taken that right uh not a lot of the newer artists do but the bigger you know established ones that was the mo best song wins that's it and if not it's an ego thing yeah well i would only want to cut my who gives a shit dude cut the best song there is nobody cares forget these young guys not you the other young guys they forget that the people in the crowd

As far as they're concerned, Jason Aldean wrote all those songs. Those are his songs. They could care less who wrote them.

And that's what it's supposed to be like. The artist is supposed to cut songs that it feels like they wrote. But you're right. Do you want some publishing money or do you want a big old live nation touring contract? Yeah, when you go see Aerosmith and they play Miss A Thing, you're not thinking... Diane Warren! Oh, yeah. You're going to Aerosmith. Yes! I wish more young guys were like you. I mean, that's the thing. You have everything it takes to be successful and it's like...

It's going to get there, but you deserve to get there. Like the work ethic and the ability and the want to, and the smarts. You know, we've talked about this. You've, you come out, hung out on the road before. Well, the smarts even, even, even had some most basic form of being willing to cut songs that maybe you didn't write. Yeah. Because the only people that care about that are on music row. And really, I mean, honestly, like that's cut a hit song, go play it and own it. And,

tour on it, have a hit. No doubt. You know, but, uh, but yeah, being, you know, you know, the poorest we've ever been is when we had a record deal that you don't get poor. Then when you, when you first kneel, it's the same thing. Like when you, you know, artists, you got a song out, like you're going in the hole.

Oh, man. Big time. Oh, living the hole, man. But it sounds so cool. I'm still trying to get my ass out of it. You know what I mean? But it's a trip. It does sound so cool. If you've got a record deal, that sounds amazing. That's kind of worth something in itself. Well, you think so, but like I said, most people don't realize you're –

a million in the hole pretty quickly. That's right. You have to do it because you love it. It's too hard to do it or it's not, you know, you're not going to last. But you have to do it. That's what I mean. I've been in town forever, but I do it because I love making music. I love playing live. And, you know, it's never like about... That's the thing. It's dangerous climbing a ladder, man. That ladder never ends. You know, so it's a... I find myself...

nowadays like kind of enjoying where I'm at and always pushing it I mean I'm pushing it every single day but not missing where I'm at because it's dangerous to live on what's next what's next what's next and you miss what you know everything that got you to this point

Yeah. And that's why it's important to get married before, like, like you get a record deal, then go ahead and get married that way before she knows what's going to happen. It's good or bad. You don't know. Just go ahead and lock her in. And kudos to you with Monica. She's lovely. She's one of the funniest guys I ever met. I'm not lying. He really is. We talk about it a lot.

He gets a little looser on here. He starts getting grumpy. Kalo, you're the man. I don't know. He is the man. Let's take a break.

Hey, but actually, we do need to take a break. But before we do that, I want to talk about this. You were talking about being on the road. And one of the coolest things that I think you do and have done, I'm not sure if you still do it, but let me know. You do these state prisons. And you do this thing every year, right? You go do this thing. I know you're doing it in Pennsylvania. I'm not sure if you do it in Tennessee. But talk about that because that's one of the coolest things that you do. It's just awesome. No, thanks, man. I did it for 10 years. Wow.

And I don't do it anymore. It was all in Pennsylvania. A friend of mine by the name of Chris Hall worked at a state prison in Pennsylvania. And in 2011, he said, hey, man.

Got this wild idea, everything about bringing in music at the state prison. You ever think about coming in and playing? I was like, hell no. I just watched. Oh, man. Yeah. Went in that first year solo acoustic, brought my own speakers, Mackie Thumps. Remember those? Oh, yeah. Brought those in, 250 inmates in the gymnasium. I played, you could have heard a pin drop. It was unbelievable. Yeah.

It spread to all the other state prisons. So my phone started running off the hook with these other state prisons. They didn't want to have me come play, so I started to do a tour of it. And I played about all of them. I could tell you some crazy stories, but it's like...

You're playing to guys that are probably in the lowest spot in their life they've ever been. I'm playing a heartbreak song, and I'm watching a guy in the front that's bawling. There's a dude that's come in in a wheelchair. He's been in there for life. This ain't county jail. This is state max security. No shit. I've told this story a couple times. This dude comes up afterwards. I get to talk to some of them, and he said, Hey, man, I got to tell you.

I've been in here for 20 years and I hate country music, but those songs just changed my whole outlook on life. And you make me want to be a better person and chase my dream when I get out of here real soon. Yeah. As an artist and a writer, that's the reason you do it, right? To connect with, to have a connection like that with a listener and like do a lyric and a melody. And like, I'll get messages all the time from guys that have since got out or family members or,

and said, hey, I talked to so-and-so on the phone last week. I haven't heard him that happy in 10 years. You took him out of prison for 90 minutes. And it's like, dude, that's so cool. So it's just a straight up ministry then that you're doing. Yeah. Well, I don't do it anymore, but yeah, it was. Don't upset any of them.

So when they get up... No, no, no. They give me a necklace. We call it the oh shit button. Yeah. Seriously, there's a button on there and before the show, they'll say like, hey man, you're not really a threat but you never know. You can't forget where you're at. Yeah. And if anything goes down, which it could have, you're going to run into that room right there. It automatically locks and you press that button and it alerts all the guards on the whole state prison to come down. And it was like... That brings it back. This one guy and he's like...

You never would have known. It's like, we were talking guitars, totally normal, like what I thought, you know. Guard comes up to me afterwards. He says, hey, man, I'll talk to that dude. He's killed six people. And it's like, there's a line, it's a dangerous line because I'm not in there to judge. But, you know, they're doing time and they're in there for a reason. But you also can't forget where you're at, right? Where's that? It's like...

can trip you out a little bit and you're walking down the halls and it looks like what you think it would look like. And here's all the guys and I'm walking down with my guitar and everybody's lined up and they're, you know, they're on their suits and stuff in this ratty hallway. And I'm in there by myself is like, it's a little bit of shit, you know, but I'm in there doing a thing and they look forward to it year after year. It's great. You do it. It's, it's fantastic. Cause what you said, like a song you play or the way you play it or the way you sing it,

might change their outlook even for a short time that's just it you know i mean so that's great great that's incredible it is incredible you know we get to go out and play for people that are there to see us or buy a ticket man and you're doing that's that's a hard show dude and then you're like tolly said even if you're just changing the one person's life dude that's enough that's absolutely no doubt i've learned a lot of things actually doing those shows because there is no other guitar player there's no there's no tech i'm by myself you know so you got tech

Wait a minute. Telly could never do that show. They'd be lost. Can't do it. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I'm out of here. No idea, man. Tech slash bodyguard. That's great, man. That's inspiring.

Why you're Ben? Gallagher. Ben Beck Gallagher. And then you did the watermelon trick. We're here with Ben Gallagher. We're live on tape at the Patriot Mobile Studios. We've got a couple sponsors we need to get to. We'll be right back on the other side. My name is Glenn Story. I'm the founder and CEO of Patriot Mobile. And then we have four principals.

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All right, we're back. Try that in a small town podcast from the Patriot Mobile Studios. We got K-Lo, Thrash, TK, Kurt Von D. It'll probably end up sticking. We got Ben Gallagher here.

He's got that guitar. We're going to have to talk about the lick that went viral. This is a man's riff. Dude, a grown man's country riff is what this is. From what I understand, it was 35 million views across socials and all that. And you had people like even Peter Frampton talking about how awesome this was. Dude, I mean, how did this happen? So wild, man. I'm telling you. Get up a little closer here. Absolutely.

This riff was a huge blessing, man. You'll get this as a guitar player. We come up with riffs all the time and they can get away from you and it's like your phones are filled with all of us. All kinds of different ideas and guitar riffs and bass lines and it's like...

That one got away from me. I wrote it five years prior to posting it. And I just had forgot about it. Was it like an exercise riff? Or was it like, hey, I'm going to use this one day. You know, because Joe Walsh talks about life in the fast lane. That was just like an exercise thing for him. And he was playing it. And the guys were like, what the hell is that, dude? We need to put it in a song. So was your riff like that? Or did you always think, you know, this could be part of a song?

I don't know that. It was just something I was messing around with, and I played it for a while, and I was like, man, this thing feels pretty cool. And then I just, I don't know, I moved on from it. And I would sound check and play it a couple times, and then years had gone by, and I was floating through my phone, and I came across it. I was like, oh, man, I forgot about this. This is cool, and it came right back to me. And I was like, I got it down, and then I was like, I'll just throw this up on Instagram. And...

I didn't think anything of it. I wasn't looking at the numbers or nothing. I thought it sounded cool. I posted it and seven days went by and all of a sudden my Instagram starts lighting up. I mean, insane. I was like, what the freak is going on here? That riff is getting serious wings and there's thousands of comments. Song title, question mark. What's the song title? I called Neil and

who produces my stuff with his cousin Patrick. And I'm like, you've got to see this. This thing's going completely bananas. And we got to write, label wanted to write us a song, write a song to it, which we were going to anyways. And,

And so we wrote Stomp and the title came to be because the caption on Instagram was boot stomping because I was keeping time with my boot on a pedal board case doing the thing. So that goes on and I was like, well, maybe I got lucky with all the algorithm bullshit. You know, you never know. So I was like, I'm going to post it again.

And that one went to 8 million. The first one went to 7 million. And every time it got posted, it kept going viral and viral and viral. And it was a huge blessing. And wild that even a short piece of music with no lyric can still make a lot of people feel a certain way. And that's the cool thing about music. Dude. Play that riff. I love it. And then I have a question for you.

Yeah, play the riff. Hey, play the riff and maybe we'll go viral. No, no, let's hear it because there's 35 million people have heard it, but let's hear this thing, man. There we go. How does that work?

Come on. Flawless. Come on. Wow. Now that art. On the 50 second take. That's great. You know. That's perfect. Dude, that's so badass. What I love about that. It reminds you of like.

Back in the day, playing sessions and demos here, music like that, like Corn Floss, how to play those riffs like that, JT. Oh, man. Man, that's really awesome. Have you thought about when that went viral, did it cross your mind? Maybe a guitar instrumental project, like an EP that...

I mean, it obviously connected to what you played. I mean, that's crazy. That's a great idea. I think so. I've never thought about doing that. 20%. You're going to have the idea. But seriously, though, it's a very niche thing. But maybe you tapped into something that is a little side hustle off the artist thing. Yeah, it's pretty cool, man. But so the song was called Stomp so that you ended up

uh recording to that right and you neil you wrote that with them is that right me and wendell yeah yep and um i don't we're not as neil would say i don't remember i live nine miles away no that's awesome it's really who else who else it was and patrick and pat yeah that's right that's right i still don't ever think of pat on a song yeah yeah that's right

It's a great riff, man. We did something cool because it...

there was a lot of guitar players that were commenting on it you know they wanted to learn how to play it so i was like well hey um i'm a taylor guy and i got with them and said hey would y'all want to do a special edition taylor the stomp taylor and um we're going to give it away to somebody but we're going to do a contest i'll do a slow down tutorial on how to play the riff what a great idea open it up to submissions um and

and then just, yeah, they had to tag me and Justin Ostrander cause I did it with him. He played on session with us and, um, and Taylor. And then they could, so there was hundreds. So we got to, you know, watch them, but you know, it's,

did you do that oh yeah that's awesome and the guy that won he was fantastic well he lived in you know he did not live in the u.s i forget yeah where he lived but it cost like eight hundred dollars to shoot so now we'll do we do some more contests still to this day and now they're u.s only and i was like he was the best one i mean

he was the best one no dad had to go to him he was he crushed it he was the only one that like because it's pretty the picking pattern is pretty intricate yeah that's a classic label move though you know they'll blow 800 on a dinner that no one cares about but they refuse to have a worldwide thing go on you know that's where they draw the line i told him i was like there's people playing and posting this riff all over these all crazy countries i was like it's awesome

U.S. only. U.S. only. We don't want to pay for that. That's fucking business, I'll tell you what. It is a great riff, man. Thanks, man. It's still going. I mean, it's still blowing up. It just went the other day. Some guitar page screen recorded the original post and posted it, and it went. It's like the gift that keeps on giving the whole year long. Dude. That's great, man.

uh so talk about the other songs on the project right now you have a song bullet out like this whole side of the table right yeah oh yeah oh i don't know we're gonna talk about that oh absolutely go ahead ben you gotta talk hey man no y'all you go it wasn't my title it was it you or chris august's title no it was uh my title we're writing with chris august and uh he writes for brett james awesome guy i mean he's actually an artist himself you know and um

Anyway, we were just scanning through all your ideas, and I just called Bullet.

And we just started talking about it and, you know, take a bullet for you and all that. It's just a love song, right? Great song. Tough love song. Great song. Thank you. Needs a little bit better bass line. That was out of my control. I would have called you. It's okay. Kalo did play the bass line. But, you know, Neil, he was producing and he said no, he wanted a different bass line. Okay.

But no, but anyway, but Chris August had this, uh, great melody to it and everything been very old school. And I remember when he played it, played it for deal because it was old school organ. It sounds nothing like nothing like the cut, you know? And, uh, and then anyway, you played it for, played it for Neil. And then he said he may change a few things, you know?

If that's okay. If he's fine with that, just cut it. I don't care. He put the kneel on it, and it's like he did his thing, man. Yeah. And it's like you took it over the top big time. We left it open, too. It's my first thing out, writing for these two yo-yos over here. Everybody at this table. No, see, that's why we all posted it. Everybody at this table. Seriously, I appreciate that big time. Actually, you know what's interesting about that song? For me, it's got a cool...

It's like 90s rock thing to it, though, too, which I really like. I don't know if you meant to do that or anything, but it's very, very cool. Yeah, Neil, what were you guys thinking when you were thinking about the production of that song? Well, we rewrote the second verse. Yeah. Did it have a bridge and we took it out?

Yes. You don't like Bridges, Neil. There was a bridge. No Bridge, Neil. The second verse was just softer. It had the dad in there and everything. It was just softer. And then Neil got a hold of it and just made it better for the title. It was more direct to it, and it was tougher. And the way the original version that I heard, he was singing it, I take a bull.

for you and i was like yeah yeah you changed the phrasing of the bullet yeah just it was just little phrasing things and maybe a few notes here and there and yeah really good though yeah and that's what i mean that that to me is a radio hit you know and it's like i i miss the days when um

A staff, A&R staff and the label head will say, you know what, go on the radio with that thing. Yeah. You know, we're going to let it, see if it grows some legs. Instead of, instead of putting it out to DSPs and we'll see what it does. But those numbers can easily be manipulated. And what something does and doesn't. And they are manipulated. A thousand percent. And so it's really, we're taking the,

really the power of the listener away from what the listener for all for all they know bullet could research through the moon at radio research their favorite word researching um but it's great that's just it and it's like yeah i could well this movie get time being like so as one of four writers on it and having a you know 16 month old baby how is it doing i

I haven't heard anything. I couldn't wait for tonight just to get the report. I think you need to call the label for that. Call the label. That's the label. Okay, all right. That's right. That's right. It was their pick for the single. I had other picks, but I'm like, that's a good pick, too. I thought there was a – when you have a handful of songs that you can put out first, you know. It's a powerful song. That's a good thing. Yeah. I mean, it is. And I said this on the live show. If you've ever loved anybody at all, you can relate to that song. Yeah.

And so the EP is called Bullet as well. And when can we expect that? Or is it out? Yeah, the EP came out with the Bullet drop. And we're about to go into cut at the end of the month, which I'm fired up. Nobody gets me musically more than Neil. That's what you need. Well, I mean, seriously, not to toot Neil's horn, but like, you know, I think there's a power to having...

a veteran in the business, a great songwriter, great singer. Like you need that. Like, you know, it comes down to songs and, you know, it's, it's nice to have. I mean, I owe so much to him. I always said like a sign of a great producer, uh,

is when they pull something out of an artist that the artist didn't know they had in them and they make the artist the best that they can be on tape I told him he would hate me at the end the first time we ever cut I still do well and this is kind of love yeah it was mainly for vocal stuff I was like you're gonna when we do start doing vocals you're gonna hate me so this is this is perfect right here this is good so so because we were talking about even I think our last uh show

about co-writing with Neil and sometimes, yeah. So you can say, you know, you feel like you've got something and you're about to say something and he'll stick out his hand and go, shh, shh, shh. That means no matter what you have, I've got something better. So my question to you is in the studio as producer, what's it like? Because I've seen him like demoing songs and stuff and he's cool and talking to players, says, yeah, that sounds good or maybe pick it up a little bit. What's it like?

Cutting a record in there. Cause I hadn't seen that with Neil. What's it like? Well, I'll tell you this. I'm upstairs at Pat's studio and he's downstairs with Pat. This is no shit. Language. With a baseball bat hitting the top of the rafter when I'm not hitting the note. Right. I can see that. That's amazing. So clear to see. That's amazing. No,

No, he gets a little Tommy Toughenuts with me up there. I love it. It's just to lighten the mood a little bit. You know, lighten up the mood a little bit. I can tell you what, when I hear back the final, you know, it's hard because he's right every time about it. And I don't buck him. I trust him completely. Like Tully said, I mean, Neal, I mean...

We've been having fun, but he is, A, a pro, and he's one of the most talented people that we all know. I mean, you are lucky to have him, and it's incredible. We can't. I have to, you know, I couldn't do this without Patrick. Yeah. Because, you know, my cousin Patrick Thrasher, because he's like, I mean, he's a monster. Yeah. He's not just a mixed guy, not just an engineer. This dude...

I mean, he has changed the direction of some songs that we've done that I did not hear. I'm like, what? And I want to, at first I go, we can't do that. You know, and then, then we do it. And I'm like, oh shit, he was right. Yeah. Patrick. That's it. Like, and you as an artist, um,

The first thing that happens when things aren't happening quickly is like, oh, it must be production or it must be this. The most important lesson as an artist, if you're comfortable and you think the producer's getting the best out of you, just stay the course. It's timing, it's the songs, it's whatever, but if you're comfortable, because the label loves that, oh, it must be the production.

That's as old as time is they'll blame. Or blame anything, whether it's production or whether it's songs. But I think it's important. Just keep doing what feels good. I already told Ben, I was like, you know if this next EP doesn't work, you know who the first one to get fired is, right? It's always the producer. I told him that's not happening. Don't ever say that.

Now, there's something to that, though. I mean, even Jason, there were times when we were in a slump, and they're like, well, Jason, maybe it's production. Maybe it's... Like, no. Here's my team. I feel comfortable with this team. It's just timing. And maybe it's a little bit of the label dropping the ball. Or all of it. Maybe it's all the label dropping the ball. So...

But if you're comfortable, that's the biggest thing. I'd go to war with Neon Path Studio. I mean, there's nothing I wouldn't do. Then that's the recipe for success. It's coming. And now it's on tape, so you can't take it back. Yeah, I know. I don't plan on it, right? And we never edit anything. Never. See, what's fun to me is Neon's so melodic, and when I'm doing the overdub,

solos and intro riffs, if I'm like, even if I'm not hung up on something or, you know, he'll start humming a melodic line and then I'll try and then I'll do it on. So like we have, we are me and Pat and Neil are a well-oiled machine. And for an artist, that's a huge deal because some guys go their whole career and still don't find that right match, you know? Well, if you know who you are as an artist, that's the biggest thing.

key even you know you find that out when things aren't going well yeah you know that's when you find out who you are when it's not going well it's okay well here's what i do well maybe what i do well maybe now is not the exact time but i know this is what i do and it's just getting through that and seeing your way through it versus trying to change to what you think someone wants you to be no doubt or what works you know because that that will definitely kurt says it all the time like if

if you're not authentic, then the listener sees right through. They see right through that. Yeah. Well, luckily, the label still believes in us. So we'll see. Benny's been a huge believer in what I'm doing. He believes in you.

He believed in Al Dean? People don't know. It's like the same guy that's heading up Ben's label was the head of the label that Jason started. That's who gave Jason, really, without Benny. I mean, none of us are here. Yeah, Benny Brown was the head of BBR when Jason got signed. Ben's working. And he's passionate about Ben. Yeah, I have the utmost respect for Benny Brown. Yeah, great. Benny gave us our first break at Producing.

No kidding. After breaking with Jason and earning his trust in that way, Benny started letting us produce. We produced those Tompkins Square albums and he gave us the keys to the car for a while. We produced six or seven acts over there. He is a loyal believer in talent and what people bring to the table. And everybody at this table has a song on the next session.

Wow. Nice. Which one? Love hearing that. Which song? Love is hard. Oh, it's a good song. That is a killer bass line I played on the demo. Send it over. I'm going to recreate that magic. So remember that title?

That's a good one. You don't have to tell them ours. Why not? Because I always get weird about titles. You do? Yeah. It's just called Where Do You Go? Yeah. Just don't tell them how we hook it. I won't. And it's out there. If we're so old school like that, dude, all these new artists, they post the song they wrote today and they put it on there. I saw that. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

it's just we're we're old i see it we are they post their writing sessions the audio of their writing sessions out on socials for the world to hear like when it's brand new it's a baby we are a bunch of old men i'm like well i would never do that ever i call that burning songs

Let's talk about Eagle Scouts. Ooh, risky. I have a question for y'all. Oh, no. Bring it. Flip it. Let's go. Flip that shit. I have a question for y'all. So I know in the show, I mean, you guys have so many hits now, it's hard probably to even get them in on your, how long is the show?

it's an hour and a half we do 20 how many songs do we do we do 27 songs with almost no talking to to get a lot it is a lot we don't he doesn't talk much at all and as you've read the news lately he just had a 30th number one and that didn't count in some of the ones that were two five seven you know yeah there's a lot of hits we leave we leave we have to leave some out we don't have enough time but um

Yeah, I mean, these days it's 27 crampacked. I bet you he talks two minutes. Yeah. That's what we always try to do, though, is just play the hits. At this point, for sure. So this is my question, and I get that. You've got to play your hits. Do you ever have, and y'all would never do this, but do you ever have times where it's like, man, I'd sure love to play Back in the Cigarette? Yeah.

album cuts texas was some of those deep album cuts that weren't singles like but and you never you'd never blow out one of the big hits you know you guys i get that but do you ever have times where you're like man i freaking i love that song wish we could play it live we did have some of those conversations it's funny you started to mention texas with you that was one of the songs that we put in the set just because jason loved it and we'd play it uh

We don't do it much or we can't now because there's hits to play. We spent years, and this is fun to talk about because I think when you're building a set list every year in different parts of your career, when Hicktown was at 40 or 39 and climbing, we started with it, played it in the middle, and did an 18-minute version at the end.

That's not, that's true. So, and then we had, you know, why comes out and we had a hit. And so all of a sudden you're, but you were, we spent years building a set list with only two, three hits and make it to four hits. And then at this point, like, honestly, I think we use the, all the years of going to shows. Like I try to go as many shows as I possibly can my whole life as a listener, uh,

i remember going to hear tom petty and all these people i love and i always wanted to hear the song i didn't want to leave there not hearing the song i loved i think jason's as much as we would like to play some b-sides is it for us doing something just for us doesn't seem as important as doing something for the crowd that comes back every year we've been on the road 20 something years now and they're still coming

And it's like this year we put in, we put in why again, which we haven't played in over 10 years. Really? Old version of it. How's it go over? Great. Great. And we have, we have so much fun with it because it's been so long since we played it. It's new to you guys. Yeah. It's, it's, it's fun to do that, but I always like, it's probably new to the crowd too. I mean, yeah, you know, they know the song. They're like, Oh God, I remember this one. Yeah. They lose their mind over it. So it's like,

And all of us are like real cautious about making sure, like if we were out there, what would we want to hear? And we're still leaving so many out, you know, we're still not playing everything. So there's some songs that just aren't in there that, you know,

It's tough to leave out. I think it might have been Paul McCartney that said this in some interview. And it's talking about what songs he plays, how does he pick out of all the hits and everything. And he goes, you know, I usually play the hits. And every now and then I'll play something new so they get time to go get a beer and go to the bathroom. Because he said as soon as he plays something new, they're gone. Gone. Well, you know what's interesting these days, which this is what I really miss most about

and records being released in a normal album cycle. So Tough Crowd, the song we wrote, the last album, love that song. Great song. So in the old days, if we'd put an album out and it was in stores and bought and people listened to an album, Tough Crowd, we opened the show with it.

Great song. It never had the impact it deserved because people don't absorb the albums like they used to. Yeah, that's a great point. So it's harder to build a set now like that because we used to be able to put a song in...

a b-side in but we knew they listened to it yeah if you put in anything from the my kind of party record it went over the same as a single because that thing sold four or five million years you know it's like everybody knew every song on the record but no one's really absorbing albums like they used to where i remember i couldn't wait to listen to an album you know

So I wish, you know, I kind of missed that where I can tell like where we started the show with tough crowd, what a great opening song and people, it's not, they liked it, but it didn't connect like it would have had it been like people buying the album and they had to get them and, and, you know, yeah. Well, people are pumping out so much music now all the time.

As soon as they listen to it, it's old. You put X amount of songs out and one week later, when we get more music. It took a minute to create that. The attention span is definitely...

you know lacking so when you build your set list that's so do you do you have some covers you play to at this point still do a couple covers we're doing yeah if i'm doing like a 75 or a 90 i'll have a handful of covers in there that i'll kind of what are some of the covers you do i do uh i was just telling neil this i do uh old time rock and roll oh yeah but in the middle of it

drummer kind of brings it way down and I'll start doing this lead bit because I'm doing a lot of three-piece stuff right now. I like it. Dude, you're covering some ground now. I like it, dude. And so anyways, I'll go into Sharp Dressed Man. Get down, get down, get down. Boom, boom, boom. And then go right into Life in the Fast Lane riff. And then I'll go into Layla by Clapton. And then find my way back into Old Time. But...

I like doing that stuff, and the crowd loves it, you know, and it's familiar. But I'll do Take It Easy, The Eagles. I'll do a rocked-up version of Old Red. Ooh. I like that. Cool. I was doing Liza Jane for a minute just for a little. Thanks. Really? It's about the only super country. You tackled some Vince? Yeah. That solo's a monster. Yeah. People don't realize Vince, so good. Yeah. Dude, he's legit. He's on tour right now. He's still slaying.

Yeah, Tom Buchabag's playing with him. Yeah. Tom's a monster. Yeah. I mean, he is... Yeah. I mean, it's a guitar town. It's still the best guitar players. We got one sitting right here. I know it. You know? We won't play. One sitting right here. No passion. Somebody behind me? Buchabag here? I think we should ask our listeners. I think we should...

you know, start a coup. Start a coup. With our listeners. Let them just light up the message boards. Oh, it's definitely paywall stuff. We want Kurt to play. We want Fondue to start whaling. Yeah, what's going on, man? Oh, man, this is a deep question. You might need to put me on the couch for it. Here's one of my favorite things. I remember, so we were in a... I don't know. We were in a rock... He's a fantastic player. Yes, he is. I tell you what,

this is great we were in a rock band me him and rich in the early 2000s late 90s and back in those days we would literally sit in the house and we create these crazy songs and parts and kurt comes up with the craziest coolest stuff and like he always jokes about not having passion for the guitar he bleeds passion with a good target the thing about it is is like

We're absorbed. You guys can relate to this. Absorbed in it every single day. And it's a blessing, but also sometimes it never ends. It's a 24-7 job. Our listeners want it. Neil wants it. How bad do they want it? Do they want it for $7.99 a month?

I did wonder on that, because you're playing, generally, you say 26 songs, something like that, 23, something like that. Yeah, 27, yeah. So are you playing...

all the solos and everything pretty much exactly like the record as much as possible? And if so, is that why you might not have the passion for it because you're not creating something new each time? You're playing the same thing you've already created a long time ago. Don't give him an out, K-Lo. No, no, no. I'm curious. I think we relish playing exactly what's on the record. That's another thing we learned. The most annoying thing you can do to a fan is come up with some terrible version of

Because you're bored. Because you're bored. That's right. It doesn't matter if you're bored. I totally agree. They're the one paying the ticket. I always thought that was so disrespectful to your fan base if you find the need to completely change a song around. Yeah, we're not the Grateful Dead. No. You know. Go out there and we, look, we'll do things inside the song to change it up per year. You know what I mean? But the fans deserve, they're going there to hear these songs played

like they know them, like they can sing them. I always thought that, again, that's always learned from like, I saw Tom Petty 10, 11 times in my life. Even when I saw the police on their reunion tour, they still did the stuff like you remember it. I always thought that was... Yeah, no, no. The solos are just like the record. It doesn't matter if it's Adam Schoenfeld that played the solo or me. It's got to be the solo that's on the record.

One of the things I've always loved about what y'all do is those songs. Please continue, Ben. Turn his mic up, Jim. This is paywall stuff.

y'all's stuff is so guitar driven and it's the intro riff as soon as those songs come on you know exactly what it is yeah well that's not really a thing anymore in country as much right rock things it was always a thing in rock right it was so identifiable by that intro riff that's part of the song before you even get to the lyrical hook you know it's a whole musical hook from the top like

hick town she's country tattoos on this town you know in two seconds what that is it's so identifiable and i've always loved that with what y'all do i mean it's kind of a dying breed in today's country it really is and i don't know how to i don't even think we probably all of us don't know how to create music that isn't like that because if it doesn't have a hook musical hook

I can't even fathom that. Shoot, we go into, it doesn't matter, bass part, he creates a hook. If I'm in the chorus, it doesn't matter if something's going on, I better create an alternate melody, a counter hook to what's going on. That's just the way that I think all of us think. Wired. And I'll give a lot of credit to Knox too on that because it's easy as a producer to try to interject too much.

Michael's a great producer. He's a great song guy. His magic tool is that if something feels good to him, then it is good. But he gives us also the freedom to come up with those hooks. You can't have enough of them. You can't have enough hooks. And if something adds to the song and makes someone remember it, then that's a great thing. We've already mentioned their names, both guys.

Because both those guitar players are on the session that we're fixing to do, Bukovac and Schoenfeld. They're the two guitar players that we have on this session coming up. And if you think that me and Pat are going to go in there and think we have all these brilliant ideas about what they're going to play, you let them hear the work tape because we'll play all the work tapes live. We may play them over, but we'll be playing with them and singing them live for these guys so they can hear them. We won't play demos, really. Yeah.

And just so they can use, you know. We hire players for a reason. I've always found that whenever we did stuff with him, if we did a good live version right there on the spot of the song that we were getting ready to do, it lets their creative thinking just, they're not listening to what we think we already want it to sound like. Yeah. You know. Sometimes the demos are,

The other way they need to be. Like, love is hard. We're going to cut that one. It's probably going to be really close to that. So they'll probably hear that one. But on other stuff, we'll play it live for them and let them do it. And I'm not going to tell Bukovac and Sean. I'm not going to keep my mouth shut until we get going. And I'm sure that's what Knox does with you guys. He gives you all the freedom to be creative. Well, plus, you know, we've talked about it before, and

you know it's this same crew of guys in there for over 20 years in the same studio in the same chairs when we do these albino records yeah same everything and so there's a you know it's a comfort factor in being comfortable you know which is a thing that you're figuring out too if you're comfortable with the system then it's there's nothing wrong with that that's right that's working it's it's never

to production. It's never, you know, the songs are great. Production's great. It's timing. It's like, and I hate to say it, but is the label doing everything on their end? Because today's tough. Cutting through all the noise, like you said, the other hundred male acts that are coming out. You know, it's challenging.

to kind of cut through that to really just stay the course. Hey, so getting back to Bullet, is there a music video for that? Yes. Okay, tell us about it. Are we in it? No. Well, we called. You didn't answer. Did you change your number? I'm just kidding. You got my new number, Ben. You know what? You got my new... Come on, Ben. I'm just kidding. Yeah, the music video for Bullet, it's intense.

Is it out right now? Yeah, it's out. Okay. Yeah. YouTube, is that where we find it? Oh, yeah. Y'all look it up. Okay. The listeners out there, check it out. Oh, yeah. It's not what you think it would be. Were you surprised, K-Lo? Talk to me. A very surprise, yes. Really? Well, they'll be so coy. In a bad way. You didn't like it. He didn't like it. K-Lo didn't like it. I just want people to watch it. That's assy, K-Lo. No, I just want people to watch it. I'm giving them teas. You didn't like it, K-Lo. It's all right.

Have you commented on it? No. No? I knew he didn't like it. Burn your phone? When he texted me back, I could tell by the way he texted me. Oh, really? No, I gave you a little flame, a little fire emoji. I gave you a little fire emoji. I gave you a fire emoji and one money bag. Bro, why'd you do that? I'm kind of an intense person, so I was looking for like, man, that was freaking badass. I didn't get that.

I can look it up. I think I gave you one fire emoji and one money bag. That's pretty good. No, one fire emoji doesn't get it. No, no. You need three. It's a minimum of three fire emojis. Not these days. These kids are doing a bunch of fire emojis. It was late. I was milking the baby. Okay. Interesting. No, it's pretty intense though, right? It is intense. I mean, I didn't write the script, but it's intense and...

I don't know how much I want to talk about it because I don't want to give it away. No, no, no. Let's push people there. Tell them about it. They're going to go... You don't need to push people there. It gets intense at the end. Okay. Caleb, were you surprised with the... Did I just give it away? Did I do an M.A.C. Shyamalan? Yes. Were you surprised that the guy got shot? You were. Bullets don't come out of baseball bats. Well, it just wasn't the way that I imagined him...

He didn't really take... Yeah, he took a bullet. He took a bullet. He's going to take a bullet whether she was there or not. It's the whole thing. You know what I mean? He's robbed the store. I got to go watch this thing right now. So, see, he got shot, sure. Yeah, but he would have got shot whether he's with her or not because he robbed the store. Well, he did it for her.

What was he doing? He was robbing for her. For money? Yeah. Yeah. He was trying to feed his family. Getting baby shoes? I know. No, I... You don't like it. I saw it. The point is... Y'all go watch the video. So we do. We need to go watch a video. Leave your comment on what people think of it. If you like it. If you don't like it. Just watch it. Stir up something here. This is fantastic. You didn't like there was a gun in it. No, no. I didn't mind that. Taylor's anti-guns. Yeah. Somebody... There had to be something happening.

And while you're on YouTube, leave us a comment as well, right? Yeah. Subscribe. Go check out Ben's socials. He's doing pretty good. And go see him live. You've got to see Ben live. Not in the prisons. At the regular shows. That's a fact. He is one of the best players and singers. Absolutely. For sure. 100%. Do you know where you're playing this summer?

Yeah. Off the top of your head, can you name a few? Are you going back home? Pennsylvania? No, actually. Oh, yeah. I think we're out with Brantley in Pennsylvania, actually, in August. We're going to Chicago. Nice. We're going to Green Bay. We're going out to Idaho. Where can they go? BenGalher.com or your Insta? Where can they find all these dates? Well, they're about to be announced this week, actually. Perfect. Perfect timing. Yeah. So anywhere. BenGalher.com. Yeah.

Instagram, TikTok. TikTok, man. Oh, yeah. That's a whole. Yeah. I don't even get a shot. You can't go out on the road until we're done with the EP. Yeah. I'll have you locked down for about a month. In the studio. You're mine for a month. I love it. And then that's when we practice our golf game and then we play Neil the day after that thing's done and he's been sequestered for a month. That's when we take it out. Oh, that's when we got to do it. Yeah.

perfect hey did you guys get to try that in a small town tattoos yet kurt did you get one no we needed to get to a million followers we it was so close it was so close we almost got there about them all i'm a big fan y'all ah that's nice i really want to we've got three these guys are been they're they're dragging their feet man you're covered up i always find yeah he's got no spot

i'll find room nobody you don't have any either why do i get the black he's not going to get one well aldine was going to design one for us you know so we're waiting on the design and then it has to go through approvals you know i'm still all about it because i love i love uh i love that song and the moment and you know so it always means something i mean a monumental song yeah

a monumental song thank you buddy this is really we gotta get you a monumental song buddy that's what we gotta do that's the next mission and dude it's coming you gotta you're on it right now and i hope you're not working hard you're such a good good guy and you know that we love you i like keep doing it i know it's i know you're frustrated you gotta be you know but but it's like you're in the game and just cutting great music great producer great songs it's like

It'll get there. Just doing what I do, man. If it was easy, everyone would do it. Totally. If I didn't love it so much, I'd have been like, man. I said that before. You have to do it because you love it, man. Waiting through all the

There's a lot of politics in any other industry, man. Like any business we talk about all the time, dude, there's politics in everything. Yeah, so you have to navigate. It's like the hard thing is I get frustrated on things that I can't control, and I have to remember I can't control that, but what I can control is...

trying to write and play the best I can, right? With the gift that I feel like I've been given, right? That's what I can control. I can't control what all the other shit's going on. I'm pretty good, man, with having like horse blinders on in terms of like

I don't get hung up on, you know, the social media or man, I do got on this or that dude got on like, I don't, which is good, man. It's a, it's been, that's a blessing too. Cause I don't get like, I don't have, I don't struggle with that. Any of that at all. I just do. I try to do what I do, you know, and just keep plowing forward. I never had a plan B figure. If you have a plan B, man, you're already setting yourself up for failure. Never had a mentally never. I think, and I do, I do think, um,

It's interesting because my son, he's in acting and I always tell him, you got to get through all the tough times, but a plan B can be too easy to go to. Totally. And if you believe in yourself and what you're here to do, then it'll happen. You've been working hard for a long time. Your time's coming.

I appreciate y'all. I think Love is Hard might be the one. It would go. Just ask for it through Bullet. Once we get through Bullet. Let's jump off Bullet. It's not that old. I don't know. The video. Love is Hard is sick. Once we get through Bullet, I think we're set. We use Bullet as a good stepping stone to an actual radio single. Do not sacrifice Bullet.

All right. This has been fun. Like I said, go check out Ben's socials. He's all over. You're in all of them, right? All of them. He's everywhere. All of them. Thank you all for having me on. Listen, it's an honor for me to be here with all of y'all. Ben, we love you, and you're one of the most talented dudes on the planet. That is. I 100% appreciate that. You are. It means a lot coming from y'all. You are. We'll get there, man. We're pumped for you.

All right. Don't forget about us either. Go to YouTube, leave us a comment, go to Insta, follow, show us some love on X. We're trying to, you know, get our numbers up there. So go there, show us some love. TikTok, I think we're doing okay on TikTok, surprisingly enough.

Better if you start playing that guitar on here, Gary. We're using that lick of yours and we're going to see if we can juice our socials. That's what I'm talking about. Seriously, Ben, thank you so much for being here. For Ben!

For Thrash, K-Lo, TK, I'm Kurt. Bondu. Cheers, fellas. We're at the Patriot Mobile Studios. This is the Try That in a Small Town podcast. Ben, thank you, brother. Thank you, buddy. Make sure to follow along, subscribe, share, rate the show, and check out our merch at trythatinasmalltown.com.