Talking Dateline: A Promise to Gloria
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Hi everybody, we are talking date line and judgment quotes, and today's guest is entry .

accounting. Hi, hi. Nice to see you.

Happy new year, you too.

I love how with these talking date lines, I get to see you so much more. I because .

here's a little inside line secret, which is the people that I see the least and that you see the least in person are the other corresponds. We're almost never in the same place .

the same time. And you've live in california, I live in new york. Know that of a country between us yes.

Uh, i'm leaving california and IT is it's freezing today.

It's fifty seven. Green, feel so sorry for you night.

So this episode is called a promised Gloria and uh, if you haven't seen them on television or if you have a to do IT on podcast, IT is the episode right below this one on the list of podcast you are just looking at when you chose this. So go there and listen. Do IT or watching on television and then come back here. Okay, a promised the Gloria. You had the greatest .

interviews in this, I really did. And you know, of course, at the forefront of all that was evon pointer. No one has impressed me more than this mother. He is absolutely incredible. SHE is a force of nature, just the loveliest woman, and just so powerful with her voice, with her actions, with what he did with the murder of her daughter.

He said, i'll find out who did this grief took a back seat. How do you plan a federal for your child that think of a god doesn't call the qualified he I mean.

sometimes you just walk away from an interview, from a story, from an experience and IT touches you and just such a profound way. And it's the certain people that you just will never forget. And eve on is one of those people.

Let's talk about how you got on this story to begin with, because, uh, this didn't come in the door.

The usual what I did IT IT was a very strange set of circumstances as to how I got on this story, how I met ivon. We had done an hour on missing indigenous women. And I thought, you, why are we not doing in our own missing black women, or unsolved murders of black women? And so I read this article in the newspaper about a woman named sylvia venit.

Stone SHE runs voices of black mother's united. And so I called her, and I asked her if he had any stories that might fit into a date line. And he told me about glorious story. And so I talked to live on. And I thought, you, me, I guess, fair to say, I was being maybe a little closed minded.

I thought, I feel like the stories gonna maybe too old for date line maybe glory is a little too Young because we don't usually focus on um victims that are so Young being a teenager. Shame on me because few days later I get a call from h our senior producer saying we'd like you to do a story on glory pointer. And i'm thinking to myself, what and I called you on and I said, i'm sorry that I was so close minded.

And he said, no, it's divine and intervention. This is the power of god. This was meant to be so IT was pretty amazing .

thing I noticed when I was watching this is the everyone recounts this story like IT was yesterday. You know, I mean, it's lived on that. You expect that it's gonna live on for the mom, for them. But you know, the prosecutor saved that that box of files all these years, they have to do that. You know um her coach talks about IT like like that happened this morning.

I think I just absolutely rocked that community. You know, if you think about IT, you have this promising Young girl teenager. She's going to get an attendance record because he wants to make something of herself.

SHE was going to go over to her friend's house to get a calm for her hair because he wanted to look really pretty that day for her award. And then her bodies discovered at a house right next to the school. I mean, feet from the school.

you know, uh, the day before her death, her coached, talked all about stranger danger, yes.

teeth, all worth. He had just talk to the students about IT.

And Gloria said, do we have to talk about that? And he said, yes, because people are crazy.

Yeah and this is not the best part of town that made me when .

I ask you something, which is, you know, you have six children, I don't have any, so between us we have a Normal america. Ds, um so um what do you say? What have you said to your kids about this? How do you strike a baLance between wanting to protect them, wanting them to to be, you know, aware of their surroundings, but at same time i'm not make them afraid to leave the house?

Yeah I mean, you just, you know, you try to get them to stick together you know there is that talk of, don't talk to strangers, don't get into anyone's car, I don't care they have puppies, Candy presence, they're telling you their friends with me, they know my name you do not get in that car and I what I tell him is scream and run I mean what else you know there's not like a whole lot you can do in that situation. So I mean of our executive producer liza l did A A series years ago um called my kid whenever and I remember that liberalis was in tears because you know her child did go into that I think I was an ice cream truck or something like that but you know was that series showed that even you can tell your kids all you want and yeah doesn't mean you're onna listen to you because people have a lot of tricks up their sleeves so yes.

they're good at IT.

But in this case you know Gloria SHE was mining your own business and unfortunately he just became a target.

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Jane's abernathy is like the detective you want on the case of your loved one .

was great. Yeah and he was chosen because he had dealt with youth. They felt like, let's see if he can help us because we're dealing with so many Young people here.

But yeah, she's absolutely someone who cares. She's a, go get her. He was really, really into that that case, and then was brought in again later. You know, to look at the case again.

joe, one bar who wrote great crime infection and previously had been a luana the the L I P A um and he's sort of, i'm going to say sort of the father of modern grand fection. One boy used to say that he was interested in not just the stories about how the cops were done, the cases, but how the cases worked on the cops. And this was that because, you know, in this case, you have genes ammonite like continuing to work on IT like after SHE not even on and anymore, you go to floria and put your feet up. But he did not know and couldn't turn her back, which I think well.

because these cases haunt the detectives when they're not solved because that's why they get into this job. They get into this job to find justice, to solve these cases. And when IT doesn't happen and they put so many hours, days, years into IT, it's horrible, especially to retire without solving IT. I mean, you I would say probably fifty percent of the time the detectives I interview will shed a tear in the interview and then tell me not to air that, you know, because they get really emotional and they get invested. And so she's an example about so evan .

said he went through five or six police cheese. One of the things that we've talked about here and elsewhere too is that you know, families that agitate and that make themselves known, the law enforcement and that make repeated calls and having breast conferences and you know having events uh to sort of generate interest in the case those families yeah I I don't get the case solved but IT does help um i've definitely noticed that IT helps .

oh IT helps a lot .

you know mean sitting and waiting for the foundering is generally not the right. And if on clearly a did not do that, he was on this and stayed on .

this yeah and I think that shows you to that to make a difference, to have your case heard, paid attention to. You don't have to be rich, you know, you don't have to be powerful. Look at van SHE had a voice and so SHE SHE just wouldn't let IT go.

SHE made that promised to Gloria, I am going to find her killer every time there's a new chief. SHE would march in the introduce herself. SHE would make the calls.

SHE would talk to reporters. He would do everything he could. And it's incredible. IT took decades, but IT worked. The case resolved.

And I mean, this highlights a problem that i'm not sure there's a easy answer to, which is once a case goes cold, particularly in a jurisdiction of this going me, plenty of other crimes coming in and police move on to sort of the the low hanging fruit, the cases that are much easier to saw, the ones where there there is a fingerprint, there is a DNA hit or there's video table, the suspect or there's witness statements and all the things that you know originally did not have in this case um and that just puts the you know the the case where there aren't ment includes and there isn't as much events farther and father down on the stand yeah I mean.

IT was thankfully, IT was one of those cases in in large part to ivan that did not fall through the cracks. But I do feel like IT easily could have because IT was hard to solve. They just weren't getting anywhere. You know they like, they thought they had the suspect for my room because he had attacked another girl. But something in ivan told her, call IT mother's intuition, that rome was not the killer.

I mean, you know, police were not wrong for thinking that he was unlikely, said, I mean, he was, I mean, he had he had a record for exactly that kind of crime. And previous years and before there was DNA, a lot of murder got hung on the remains of the world because they have committed other similar crimes. IT totally made sense. Yeah.

I think he came down to timing. You know, he couldn't have killed Gloria and then also attacked the other girl. And there is a snowstorm that day.

So I think where evan's intuition kicked in was, you know, he was just going by facts of where where was ramal? Where was loria? IT was announce up for her, but some police certainly hung on to that theory for a long time that I was remelted broom who committed the crime.

So you know, I really I can't think of other cases in which in which this happened least nothing that i've covered in which you have even on writing letters to a guy that certainly could have been her daughter killed um you know um he's in prison and he's gonna be execute and she's trying to get him to essentially confessed to unburden himself and then finally, almost at the moment of of his of his scheduled execution he does write .

back yeah he wrote her back and he said I didn't kill your daughter and you should be looking right. And at that point you kind of want to believe them. Why lie at that point?

Why he's no, he's no reason.

And even though SHE SHE really didn't believe IT was him, but he wanted to be sure SHE just wanted that answer from him.

Real's execution was scheduled in the last minute. Uh, postponed because of something went wrong. I think they .

they couldn't .

find a way, inject the poison anyway.

Spot ed.

execution was he eventually executed.

Oh, you stumped me on that one. Need to go over to google and find that when I actually don't know. But you know who responds to me within like seconds? Is he von.

really?

I'm going to ask her right now.

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SHE so evan just go back and said that the male broom died in prison .

before .

be exeo ched execution and didn't try again. He just he ended up you know .

one of the things we talk about is a you know cold cases are solved through a couple of things, changes in circumstance and the other is changes in technology and this case is changes in technology. Um uh now first of all I you've got ta give all props to the crime scene text back in one thousand nine hundred eighty four who preserved all that events. Um not knowing what changes and technology we're going to come down the road because without all that stuff and without that work and without being as careful as they were, um probably no one's lacked up for this.

It's amazing that yes that they had the DNA and technology wasn't there so they couldn't get a full profile. But to their credit, every time there would be advances in technology, they will try again and again until they finally got that profile. 对。

So let me ask you something that that that occur red to me um while I was watching this and I think it's going to A A OCR to to viewers in podcast listeners too which is you know remains locked up so here I think as an inmate cannot refuse a DNA example so how was DNA not excluding him a lot sooner and the answer is there was some problem with .

the DNA right yeah at one point um they had accidently had the same contaminated by an analyst like by a crime scene person and so the profile comes .

back technician and not the best right .

and so they were going down the wrong road there with the wrong profile. What happened was eventually they cut another piece of cloth out of her clothes and had that tested and that's when they got a full profile. Um so yeah there was a little hick up along the way and before that I had been IT, which just wasn't a full profile. Um so so IT was tRicky because so many years when by and we're talking about one thousand and eighties like we know.

DNA was not a big thing, then I M wanted .

I went there have enough with their profile. So they were putting IT into the database, but they we're getting a hit eventually. Once they had that full profile, they did a direct comparison to hernandez and that was a match.

But you you get the feeling that they were is confident about this DNA head, as maybe they would know on some other cases in which there isn't any question about the DNA or IT ever being contaminated or not having enough of the same because, you know, a lot of times you and I both covered cases like this in which you know they get a DNA hit and then they're like, okay, mr. Smith, you are under arrest. We don't need to talk you about IT is your DNA on the VC but in this case, they really .

try beginning to confess so much time had passed as we know that I think that they were concerned about how old the DNA was, all the problems that they'd run into with the DNA. And I think they felt like, let's go the confession route first and see if we can get a confession because then, you know, we're in good shape. So I think that was the logic behind that because um I love how long DNA last is really incredible that IT couldn't survive all those years but not without its chAllenges because of the age of the case .

once the finger is finally pointed at her hand as Warren, this was a name that wasn't on anybody's radar, right? I mean, no, even though he lived nearby .

and he shed, nobody had seen him. He he hadn't been harassing Gloria or anything to suggest that they could have been him.

IT seems as if her name is running IT to her, that there was chance, like he just happened to be there. He was going.

I don't know that anyone knows, except for him. IT was a strange time, though that had happened. I mean, so early in the morning during a snowstorm, and you take someone down outside, down the stairs to toward a basement, I mean, this all happened outside. I, I don't know the answer to that question, but I I did find IT really bizarre. I would think the one time you would be safe as during a blizzard, you know that who's gonna want to Carry out a crime like that in the frigid temperatures IT was, I found IT very bizarre .

traditionally during bad weather. And I think this is true in a lot. Station crime goes down, you know, I know, like here in a way, when it's, on the rare occasions when it's pouring rain, like crime is down .

but people stay in IT was very a odd, odd timing. You know.

the thing that I keep coming back to is even on sort of incredible reservoir of not just hope, but also forgiveness because I mean, she's ready to not forget, but to forgive.

Yes.

and that comes from some place in her. And you can just say she's SHE does.

IT SHE does and he did go to see her nanda warn, you know, I said, was he, did you feel like he was sorry for what he did? And SHE said no he said that he spent his time crying, unable to talk. He felt that his tears were for himself and he's not wanting to spend .

his life in prison. Um her name, Warren is not the only murder that ivan has visited in prison.

Yeah he goes in to prisons to talk to killers and criminals, and SHE tries to help them understand what they've done and how their actions have affected people in. In fact, evan has is writing a play about a tale of two mothers, the mother of the victim and the mother of the killer, and the loss on both sides. So this is a play that he plans to put on, possibly at the performing art center that he just stops in africa, in Gloria's name prety.

Amazing, since her daughter's murder, even that has gone on to do all these other things that I think you probably never thought you would do, and I think probably you wouldn't have done if Gloria was still like.

I totally agree.

midnight basketball I love.

Midnight baseball, I love.

I know who knows many crimes that prevented many lives that didn't the wrong .

off the giving them a place to go, giving them an activity. Um I mean that that midnight basketball was such .

a great idea I talk about here and and elsewhere. I talk about the river effect of murder, about the effect that has on people that didn't even know the victim. You know the kids who are not allowed to go to the mall because mom's ant ant went to the mall and get killed. Um the the parents who are too strict because their their sister something happened to her. And so this is a story, not just of that, but it's a story of the ripple effect that turned out .

to be something .

good in her her daughters death transformed, even on something SHE wasn't, and maybe wouldn't have been if Gloria SHE .

was essentially a housewife in cleveland. And now she's been on Opera. She's been to the White house. She's been to africa countless times. Her life was just completely transformed. And I know SHE would trade all of IT to have Gloria back, but she's not getting Gloria a back. And this is now how SHE allows her daughter to live on.

Thank you. Thank you for bringing us the story.

Thank you. This is the good part of the job. When you get to meet inspirational people who just want to make the world Better.

I agree, makes IT all worthwhile. It's great. Uh, that's up for talking date line. Thanks for joining us. So you fried is on dateline on abc.

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