Talking Dateline: Family Matters
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in all states and situations. Everybody, this is talking date line. I'm josh makos and our guest today is then is mercy.

But how are you? I'm good. Great to see you this episode.

LED family matters. Now you haven't to heard the podcast of this or if you haven't seen in on television, it's the podcast episode right below this one on the list of podcasts that you just chose from. So go there, listen to IT or watch IT on television and then come back here because we're doing things little differently this week.

We have a lot of questions for denis about this story and you do to a lot of you posted questions on social media after the show. So i'm going to ask those of Dennis later on and will talk about what IT is that you want to know. We also have an extra clip to play you from one of charlie jail house conversations that something that we didn't have time to include in the broadcast.

So there's lots to get to. So let's talk day line. The the word that that that came to me again and again while I was watching this was velocity. Um there is not a slow moment in this.

This story changes by the minute judge been going on for ten years. But if you were up to date as of a month ago, you don't really know the case. It's the shoes just keeps dropping.

Not only is charly convicted a first agree murder, he's gone away for the rest of his life. One week later, police arrested the mother. That is the absolutely new, incredible head shaking development in this case.

I guess the moral here is, no matter what, try to get along with your spouse, parents.

Oh boy, have a good thanksgiving. This really is like A A super bowl of florida crime story. There's a murder. And then he moves into this extraordinary story. We go from a place procedure to these huge themes of blood and rage and hate and and Venus between family members, that IT is really only found a shakeup, I think. But there are so many great things that happened.

The police procedural, the csi, tell a, hey, starting with the guy next store who's having a cup of coffee having this morning, and he hears the gun shots, and he looks at, and he sharp enough to say, it's a light color car, and if you press me, I would say it's a press and then all of us suddenly, at every camera in town, going through its memory, looking forward. And they found that they saw the car at the the drop off for the Price school. They are at the gym where but danny had gone to work out. It's really chilling. It's watching this guy being .

stopped and they see the fast pass on. That's right. I mean, I mean, that's great.

That's just just how about you go through one of those know funky cameras on the A, T, M. And IT takes a picture suitable for framing of these two guys who have just arrived back in the miami after killing danny markle and you know, one almost leans out of the way so you can get a good shot of .

the other guy missing you in Sunny florida. I was.

these guys are not like luthor master criminal. The rent car is at the start of all this thing. On the rental document, he puts his real name with his real address, with his real phone. Once they come upon that, I mean, all start to fall together.

You ve got all these people. You get the inlaws and you get the outlaws. You know.

how can you commission a murder for higher on your brother law?

IT is, I have to say, just unfazed. And while I was watching this in the first fifteen minutes of this story, the name that kept coming to my lips was dia polito. Because this is that kind of bunker story that you just can't take your eyes off of.

A brief andella. SHE was a Young, beautiful, unhappily married bride who wanted to get rid of her husband. And SHE made inquiries, and he ended up hiring a winton beach undercover police officer.

And they staged this great fake killing when he was away at the gym with crime scene tape and cameras and look like a violent thing that happened and SHE boo hoos and goes into the interview room. Of course she's done in walks, in walks. The dead husband.

Oh, good.

Is one of the great moments, all time. One more thing that I thought this showed, which was so great, was the the value of not just a great police investigation identifying the suspects there were twenty two months, but also the wiretaps and the and the capturing of the conversations.

And the interesting thing, I think that almost could be a break away special um hour is this brilliant shake down of dona on the streets of miami outside her condo. It's called the bump. Imagine a game of pool and you take the cuban and you you make the break and ball fly in all directions.

That's what they wanted to do. They wanted to make the break there and see what would happen if she's provoked with us a parent extortion attempt from a very bad guy. And you see the guy, so you've taken care of some of the people here, but my brother is in and he needs money, and answered this copy of a new story about the denmark al killer with the number five thousand. If you want to get me out of your face, you owe my boy five thousand dollars.

Right now, an innocent person in that situation says, I don't know what you're talking about. Get away from me. I'm calling the police and then you call the police.

He calls charly immediately, and he's playing twenty questions, starting to figure out what's happened. He doesn't know who this guy is. It's intercept the street he says is is IT about major to concern me and he says, I think it's probably the both of us.

That's not the kind of thing you want to have to explain in front of twelve impartial jeers and then the culture of the tape, which is the thing I love about IT, is that it's inaudible. First time we hear IT and then later on actually cleaned that up. You're going, oh, I got that. I love that my di .

put a lot of effort into when somebody point on, I think that's right. If MC bona, just to get too far into the weeds, SHE was tried twice in that time while they're waiting to put her on trial again. Georgia appleman, one of our great american prosecutors, highs.

This guy, this audio experts, to take yet another detailed pass and the ultimate, the tape, and see what they can come up with and sun of a gun. You can hear that, you know, I, it's like a magic sleep. The garbage goes away and the dish clatter.

In the background. Is charlie saying, if they had an anything on us, we'd be at the airport by now? Charly has always been a chatty Cathy.

People said, the first thing you know about him is he always running off for the mouth, so he's in jail. And there is a phone there. And IT says, this call is being monitor.

You should be aware that this is Operated by the leon county blob. Blob and dona is also a chatter box, and SHE and charlie are talking for the next week. There is so much brother there. IT took a lot of our staff a long time with headphones on to figure out what was gone on on.

uh, it's astonishing how many people don't read that sign that says this is being recorded or think, well, they don't mean me, I mean uni vote on cases in which people say things from inside the slam that they later wish they had and say, and then they are astonished when IT turns out there .

a recording of that. The best advice would be, why don't you all just shut up?

And he and deadline, I love that couple of nowhere. Yeah.

charlie said, know this prosecution was like watching deadline.

He wasn't wrong. Something I think we're going to do more of on talking date line is play little bits that did not make IT into the TV broadcast. So here's one and it's from charlie, a post conviction talking about how much trouble is in and how his life has changed and is going to continue to change forever.

区 间隔 一天 时间， 我 这边 因为 现在 只有 一个 事情， 这个 在。

IT is very good shape, I will give you very, very, very, very good.

That's a clip of charlie e talking from behind bars to his mom.

who is self in.

Yeah.

no more boat.

no more beach. No more, no, no more nice dinner. No more dates. I got a solution to that problem.

Don't commission a murder. There are consequences for your actions.

You can do all of those things if you just don't hire any hit men. That phone call from when charlie was locked up, he drops off the call like at six minutes cent, but IT keps, the line stays open and dona keeps talking for like another seventeen minutes.

I want a full make IT out and time that really do.

I know a lawyer, but I would expect that recording is going to get chAllenged on the grounds that at some point that was no longer a jail call and it's essentially her talking to ourself even though you didn't realized he was talking to ourself or it's it's eves dropping on a private conversation between her and whoever was in the room with her.

Yeah, I think it's probably beyond the understanding of what happens in a jail house call.

I'm sure that's going to be litigated at some future point. And I know that the you and your team um that has seen this through for ten years will be there for that too.

I hate to say i'm shopping IT a bit for a development in a murder case, but I really am.

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The phrase killer dentist is not one that appears on data that .

often IT IT really isn't, I believe the prosecution theory in the jury's verdict to date, the charlie was the mastermind, the the person who put this awful thing together.

He's the one that would have known the way to get to those two killers. But you know, the family that slays together stays together.

The wonderful prosecute in this case says the wonderful closing thoughts. You know, you got to a look, step back and look at the mother and charlie and see that he's really a mama's boy.

a real a fortune, right?

Don't you love that? I drop my teeth when I saw the clip, and eight existed. And there he introduced to pat and vana all the children, uh, whose names we now know in a totally different context.

And he saw the puzzle, which a ker in life, the pretty amazing image of this seventy three year old, you know, grandmother getting arrested at the airport and she's going to vietnam. I have trouble believing that he was going to have the kind of life in vietnam that he wanted to have.

But here he is. SHE and her husband of got, they've just finished the passport check. They have got their tickets in and they're not outside whether the gate agents are.

They are in the jet way. One of the miami cops is on this, and there are tuna cops. H has got a body camel, and you see at all. And there is the agent restless for donas cell, which he's got a search one.

And SHE kisses her husband goodyer.

And that's IT just her husband is standing right? There are harvey who's been this mild manor, hard working dentist. I guess he never change.

That's true and and it's like called this guy in uber. Don't need him. I mean, what to see? No, I talked to rose markel, the mother of the victim, in this thing, a few weeks ago.

She's absolutely wonderful person. And I said, ruth, what do you think of donal's role in this thing? And he said, I think she's the architect of the crime. And where does he fit in the grand scheme of things.

do you think? Dona, in my mind, is the architect.

But Donna deny that accusation in court.

How SHE play not guilty.

your honor.

You talk with the prosecutor, the prosecutors I asked in this, you know, are you done trying people and will say, um could when they still be charged?

That's what the court of public opinion wants to know. Just SHE does not have a get energy of free card, SHE testified under what they called limited immunity, which means SHE couldn't be chAllenged. Another thing he said in court that day, but that's not a larger case. So yes, he could be SHE could very well be tried as a matter of looking .

at the evidence and seeing what i've got .

up up in leon county, that final test, fairly unruffled on the stand for a lot of her testimony, until captain went after her directly with, you know, let's let's talk turkey here. Her family did this right, and then he got a little bit ruffled, but he knows how to deflect. SHE is a lawyer. She's words are important here.

he says a couple of times, danny treated me badly.

It's not on the record, whatever is well.

and we would know that because IT would have been an issue in the divorce.

sure. I would brought everything at all the all the all the dirty socks were out in .

the court for everyone to say when windy is told you on camera that dane has been killed. I thought, I mean, if we knew about IT, SHE did a great job. He definitely appears horrified, crushed, Grace struck. And as we know from deadline, that's not always the case. People don't always look right and .

cried out tears here. These problems that seem to the major that he has the sketch account of of a timely of the morning but he's killed danny had the two children that particular day.

She's a few months away and he says he has to go get a bottle of burgan for a party that night, fillip the bark kind of gift and he goes to A A liquor store near her old house uh, but he goes past crime cy tab and doesn't stop and doesn't ask and never thinks to call the daycare, you know what is everything alright with the children? SHE doesn't call danny. It's like what is up? It's one of those. Why are you doing a kind of questions? Does that makes sense?

I mean, the thing that keeps coming back to me is like, nobody thought about those kids. Nobody thought what's IT gonna like for them to have their dad murdered. IT is astonishing that people don't think about the effect of what they do on the kids who are frequently the actual rope in this tug of war. The two sides of a family are finding it's just absolutely nuts.

I thought IT was chilling, josh, and one of the intercepted phone calls. I think it's dona talking to charlie after the bomb and SHE interprets her conversation because she's dealing with the kids who are obviously very close there and you hear their little voices and she's putting on her grandmother voice. It's time to get ready to get your bear think up stairs and think, wow, this is the moment that was denied rule film. Mark l, other grandparents.

uh, your heart just sort of goes out to them watching this thing as they watch, you know, this horr unfold, not just losing their son, but then everything else that went with IT.

Well, what happened is, after their son's murder, they live in canada. They were able to come down to the lord a to visit the children a few times. And then Wendy mother, the children said, that's IT no more visitations. And the kids were out of their lives for the next six years. Ruth markell has had this appealed to see her grandchildren all through this, to the extent of going through this, creating this markel act, while giving a rights to grandparents to to visit their, their, their kids and these kinds of odd murder situations. I've covered .

three or four families where that act would really help because I definitely know other grandparents who for exactly these kind of reasons yeah haven't been allowed to see their grandkids and you know these folks on that side, you know, blameless. Not only are they suffering because they lost their son in a horrible, violent way, but they're cut off from his kids, which is, is, is, is extra punishment and changing .

their last name that really hurts them to.

yeah, what is that .

film or killed tos to look, if you want to protect them by changing the name, don't call matos and call Smith Jones. This just doesn't make any sense.

We're going to come back in a minute with some questions from views and listeners.

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So now we're going to answer some questions from viewer questions that came in a the social media. And before we do that, I should mention that now Dennis is out the fields shooting another story. Um and the you're actually actually on the rod somewhere.

I mean a producers car in the middle .

georgian that will explain the differences in an audio. So let's see the first one here comes from someone whose initials are hr and their message is, uh, repeatedly parking in key space is a firing of, oh, that's internally. Mae, sorry, that's that's not fewer. Mae, let's go to another one. Here's a question for Dennis who asks what kind of dealing with the other man who was driving the getaway car, getting return for his turning on the shooter, did he still left the service some time in prison also?

Yes, he was already in prison and so they added time on to him with the deal that he cut with a, uh, George capable so he did not have a good energy of free card. He's got to serve this federal sense and then he goes on to the next thing.

which I thinks the total .

of nineteen years .

here's one from our friend Jamie grant, long time friend of date line, who asks I just feel like i'd be so good at listening to jail house calls to find a good date line content. Um I think a lot of people volunteering for that job well grow .

up a headset and put the coffee down in front of you and you can join the other sixty liners who SAT with headphones on and listen to some thirty hours of jail house conversations. Tell us when you get tired, but but that's when he takes to put this way together.

Charlie mentioned date line thirty times over four days of calls. He's a, he's a regular viewer. We should send them a hat.

Yeah, that must be something in this White, black. What do you think you get control? That's tough.

I don't think there's a deadline file. So I think we're probably safe.

no. And he said his big point was, you know, I said there listening to this case and I felt like was watching the prosecutor argue, he said he was deadline, deadline day line. If not, he was criminal court. He was charged the first degree murder facing a jury, and he got life.

Here's a question from terra, who wants to know whether charlie and dona are gonna a see your episode, uh, in the slam. What is? Well.

they have got tvs, but their limited, they live in kind of pod areas like thirty or forty people together. And then there is a consensus S I guess, about what they will allow them to watch. They tend to not let them watch shows like deadline. I think, uh, that doesn't mean that IT didn't happen. But I doubt if charlie saw on, I doubt, uh, done a heels on.

Here's a question from Chris ran. And Chris wants to know, why would he hire SHE done to the same attorney that unsuccessfully represented her son, charly?

Well, SHE turned by then rush for music who's been the family alternate ways than two thousand and fifteen so he's been advising uh dota and ardito son all along and then when charlie got invited, he just shifted his portfolio over to charlie merger case and he defended him in court.

Here's a question people wanted to talk a little bit about. Jeff laos. Explain just briefly who he is and what's the significance of his police interview.

He became windy y's boyfriend after the divorce from that, and he is complaining him constantly about the the divorce. And he is some interesting stories to tell, table conversations about he. He's the source of the story that Wendy told him.

He is not joking. Context, you know, Charles has been trying to find a hit man words to that effect, which was a bomb shell that SHE denizen. But jeff l. Cost is a very interesting creature. I thought you look a little like a danmark too then us.

thank you. I have a feeling this is not the last time we're going to be talking about the adults family on talking date line. But i'm not let you get actually covering the next episode of daylight that you're working on, and i'm writing two of them today.

So so we're busy, denis. Thank you. And everybody else see you friday on date line on nbc.

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