Talking Dateline: The Day Alissa Disappeared
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Everybody, we are talking deadline and judge me what I am here .

with Andrew, a canning your best friend, yes, and colleague.

so great to see you. And we are talking about Andrews episode called the day elissa disappeared. Now if you haven't seen this yet on television, first of all, shame on you.

Second of all, if you haven't heard of in podcast form, IT is the episode right below this one in the list of pod guests that you just chose from so go there, listen to IT or watch IT on television um and then come back here okay um I really love this episode and I uh, there were so many great things about IT. And I guess my first question, how did this get into a courtroom? Where's the evidence? Where's the blood? Where's her body? They can improve. She's dead yeah I mean.

josh, we know there are definitely cases where there's no body and the prosecution is able to get a conviction, but there's usually a lot more evidence pointing to the killer you in this case the alleged killer, my tourney, they or he's not even alleged anymore. He's been acquitted. So this was an extremely rare case where the whole things tossed in the middle of the trial, which was the first for me.

I don't think I have ever covered a case where there is a directed verdict of a quintal at the end of the prosecution case and the defense doesn't. You have to put on any witnesses.

There's silence in the court room, right? everyone? No one can believe that everyone IT was apparently, you know, was like silence for like ten seconds or something where everyone was just what just happened.

Like did we hear right? You know, I was in IT, was all over and in the family know, they said that the prosecution capt. Calling them, just wait until closing arguments, wait until closing arguments, and that never came. So the family was extremely upset. They finally thought that this was their shot, and I just all fell apart.

One point, your store, you talk about how prosecutors to the cops, you don't have IT. We needed to go, go get more. What happened between that? And when they decided to file what what new evidence came up?

There wasn't any new evidence IT was a new prosecutor and you know sera toro ney, a lsa sister the one who kept pushing and pushing and pushing you know, to get eyes on the case SHE wouldn't let go uh to her credit and the new prosecutor, the new da, thanked her in the press conference when he announced that he was going after my tourney but no, there was no.

no, there was no. There was no big development.

No, no just a new person you know .

bill belgic coach. The patriots hasn't uh A A tremendous overwhelmingly good record in super balls and particularly in play off games. He's a he's a championship level coach. Prosecutors across the country tend to have a Better record than the below check when they go to court on on homicide cases. I mean, IT IT is so rare for prosecutors to get creamed like this.

IT is rare and but they felt like for whatever reason, you know it's it's now or never. And they decided to do to take that hill, mary. And the past was not complete. Yeah, if you want to talk football, one of our producers, Britney, spoke to one of the jurors who said this jar did not believe mike tourney but also felt that there was not enough evidence but would have like to have hurt closing arguments, would have like to have possibly deliberated but never got that chance because he was acquitted um and this is a case now of double jeopardy where they can go after him again for murder so that that's IT so .

let's just say hypothetically ally that the that they find ellis body today and her father's D N A is on the knife that is still stuck in her um he might be to be charged with other things but trying and for homicide again is not gonna en no um what I do know is that .

the cases open office officially right one of the things I thought that that your .

story really sort of played up is that you know you have the families of the missing out there. They are looking at all kinds of different outcomes. Um maybe the missing person will be found alive. That best case scenario unlikely, but but but that's the best case scenario. Um another is that you find them ah and they're dead and you can have a service and a grave site. You can put someone on trial and maybe that person will be convicted, maybe they won't be in this case, you don't know a lisa, you don't know what happened to or and that sort of the end I mean, it's a IT is in many ways one of the least satisfying outcomes ah that the family of a missing .

person can have and after all the effort Sarah put into shining a light on her sister's case know SHE devoted herself years and years as to finding out what happened to a lisa seeing her father, you know, be charged with murder. I mean, that was, that was what he was working toward.

Years ago we put a question up on facebook, on social media saying, did you ever know anybody who vanished? And we got this flood of people, uh, saying, yes, I do. I have personal knowledge of someone and one of them was this case. One of them was was Sarah.

Yeah, Sarah torney reached out to date line and told us about her missing sister and we did IT a spotlight on her sister's case you know we showed pictures and we told our viewers about illicit tourney because of Sarah. This is when sa was really getting her efforts going um to to have people know about her sister's case. I realized a lot of transpired but you know we still want to shine a light on the lisa tourneys case even all these years later, because, as we said, IT is open. We're definitely .

gonna keep talking about that. We have the missing an american series digitally on our website in which we feature. We featured hundreds of cases and way of the budget series that you and I have both done talking about specific missing cases because that is a public service. I mean, that sort of the true is part of public service journalism. I take the to explore the case of somebody who was missing and .

his family is you know that it's it's crazy how people just vanish and it's sad and and when you think about all these family members that just don't have those answers, they just have no clue where their loved one is. And you know, i'll just spring up a case that even was came from this story. Uh, producer brittney Morris was booking a venue for us to do interviews and the woman at the venue in arizona said, my friend Sarah marton went missing in malawi in two thousand one the same year that a listen went missing.

This was a twenty four year old and brittney said, you know, what will profile her for you? You know, all these years later she's the Sarah would be forty six years old now and I just was doing some research on her before the podcasting and SHE uh is five, three hundred and ten pounds, blond hair, blue eyes. If you have any information about ceara marton um call them a Walker police department four one four nine three five seven four zero five four one four nine three five seven four zero five and if you .

need to reach out to date line, there's a lot of ways to do IT. You can do IT on social media on on twitter or x and were on facebook and I know we're on instagram and you can also email il deadline, not contact us at N B C U N I dot com one anyone of those will reach us.

We're always interested in in missing person's cases. So of course, please reach out to us and we're always coming through the messages and the, you know the social media posts looking for we stories are any way that .

we can help we read all we do and and we appreciate them.

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Let me ask you what one thing that I noticed in the story, why didn't you interview Sarah SHE was not in our in your story except there was some clips of her from her from her tiktok in her bodger.

We did request interviews with her multiple times um SHE is focusing IT appears on her tiktok on her um her social media efforts, her podcast and so SHE declined to do the interview and we try to highlight what an incredible job sa has done in getting her sister's story out there. I mean, for me, I know SHE didn't do the interview with us and that's okay because she's been through hell and that's her choice.

And I would never blame someone for not wanting to do an interview. Instead, i'm just in all her in all of her efforts and that she's devoted her life to this and it's really, really impressive that that he would fight that hard um for her sibling. So you know I always say in these stories, there's always times where people just don't want to do an interview and instead of getting upset, I I don't get upset.

I think about what they've been through. And I think, you know what? This is a story to me, I care, but it's a story that's their life. This is what they have to live with every single day. And I don't know what that's like.

I think that is true, and I agree with you. I mean, this is, this is, this is our story, but it's their life. Let's talk about mike journey here because at first he's the father that we've seen before on dateline， the one who daughter is missing and in his opinion, police are not taking IT seriously enough.

I have to say if he, if he were in fact guilty, he went a long way down the road of suggesting, uh, that he wasn't, I mean, he played the the, the, I want justice for my daughter and you're not you long force when you're not paying at attention. He played that card a lot of time. I mean, he agitated for a very long time. He's the guy he's suit to get the phone records right now.

I mean, company.

I mean, generally, when we have somebody who is guilty but is pretending not to be guilty, like you know, they're not participating in the search as they seem .

involved in bio appearances. He did everything that you would hope a dad would do if their child was missing. Um you contacting police as congressmen, suing the phone company, working with the center for missing and exploited children, driving out to california to see if she'd gone to be with her unt driving out to california to track down that phone number.

He's not under suspicion by law enforcement during the vast majority of the time .

that he's doing that, one that police and prosecutors say killed his daughter, but for years he's trying to find her. So IT was a very strange economy of things happening in this case.

You know, lots of dates are strict. Lots of single parent dads are strict. And so when you first see that in your story, I think like, well, you know okay, that's you know, he used to be in the enforcement. He he knows what bad things can happen. I sort of understand that.

And then there's this progression that you guys document, which I think is great because like you know here we're recording her at work is like when you first sort of get the impression as of you or like, wow, this is not Normal. Setting up a video camera inside your house to secretly survey your own family I mean, come on. Uh, did everybody who came in that house? No, they were being recorded. I'm guessing they probably did not know.

Because my turny put the Cameron event. The one of the living room camera was hidden in the event. So no people, people did not know. And he also recorded all of their phone calls as well IT IT was a little strange SHE known that to have cameras like .

that I mean your parent multiple times um I know I don't see you doing any of that and I know yeah .

and you .

you got how many times six I mean, your kids are not the workforce yet as far as I know. Yeah not almost.

They're going there. I don't I don't .

think when they are, you're going to show up their workplace video tapping .

them yeah so so that's a hard no for me. If I got my husband doing that in which he would never that that would we do have some issues um you know and if IT wasn't just the recording, which was, so to meet personally as a parent, I think you have to be a parent to find that odd um what was also strange world these contracts you know that he had between him and elisa. It's like it's one thing to give your child a contract. I will never drink and drive or things that we've heard parents .

do with with their kids when I was five years old um uh which was right around when lincoln was assassinated. I think um my dad said to me that if I got to be twenty five without smoking, he would give me one thousand dollars.

This get a contract.

this what we can write IT down but I was was A A verbal contract, but IT was a deal. And when I got to be twenty five, I had not smoke. I still have him and he gave me a thousand .

hours love that contain he .

made the same deal of my brother yeah.

And those those are healthy parent child contract.

Yes.

you know that really can just make your child a Better person or healthiest person or ever you want to look at IT but having your child sign contracts saying the you never sexually assaulted like it's just that was weird. It's bizarre. And he said IT was preemptive because, you know, he thought he was gonna go in and and make these accusation. So he figured he would get ahead of IT. I find IT all strange.

It's all super strange. The sense that you get is that living in that house was an ordeal. IT sounds awful.

And if I can only imagine how my teenagers would react if that was going on in this house that I would be, it's horrible.

That's the of thing that makes kids to n away .

yeah and he told her brother James SHE said to him, um you know, in the weeks before he said, I can I come live with you you know, SHE wanted to SHE according to James, he wanted to leave.

I'm not surprised. I mean, SHE wrote that note clearly at some point. I mean, when I saw that at point when you see that note, it's pretty obvious that is that is the that that looks like the handwriting of I I I .

believe at her nose. Yes, yeah, but they don't believe he wrote at that day.

okay. But I mean, it's impossible to believe the hero that note because it's too I would be too good of forgery, but also just as hard as to believe he saved that thinking, ah, yeah, this is gonna great for when I killer because then i'm going to leave this behind. I mean, that's a reach to so many questions .

in this case.

So a this story was unusual in a couple ways. One, we talked about the directed verdict, acquittals, but the other was, you know, you didn't have the person who sort brought the story in the door, which usually is the is the main character in the deadline story. Kids would have been the sister, but you did have the defendant now generally, you know regular deadline views. Now those people usually don't talk and we get the defendant in a minority of the stories and usually they can't talk because they're in custody uh, or they won't talk because, uh, the trial has not happened yet and generally people's attorneys tell them not to talk even if they want to but in this case, you got IT tell me .

how that worked yeah we um requested the interview and he said, yes. I mean he he's SAT there, you know, for quite a long time, answering every single question he wanted to do the .

interview and there no, there no ground rules. He didn't say i'm not to talk about this because I I thought you did a great job of really pressing him on the things that he would have faced if there were across examination me he and testified and half to but um he was there. He was never questioned by prosecutors but you like totally took on the role of the prosecutor in that interview. Did you talk to prosecutors at all before you interview him?

I did my dream job in another life would have been as a prosecutor I always sit there in court. I'm so jealous. I'm like I would love to be a prosecutor up.

They are asking hard questions um but I did not ask the prosecutor you know what he would have asked him. I just kind of knew what I wanted to ask him, all the things that i'd learned in the previous months. I finally, because he was one of the last interviews.

you you want to be able to ask him the stuff at the end did his attorney, did mikes attorney weigh in on the question of whether or not that was a good idea for to do the interview with you?

Well, Jimmy Jackson was there and Olivia hicks, the his his defensive journeys um they were in the other room watching. They had a monitor and they didn't interrupt. They they let .

you go from beginning and then they're not .

signals in the interface do with thing. And um I mean, I would say he mostly kept his cool. He didn't he doesn't come across as some .

type .

of weirdo in the interview. We hear these things about him, right? You think this is gonna some complete rock job, but in the interview, at least he does not. No come across that way.

He is very persuasive. In the interview, he comes across like like, Normal, Normal, bad.

Exactly and it's interesting because you know I brought up to to the detective and um Alyssa brother, you know I said he came across very common collected and you know they saw that as that I am just another person that he's trying to manipulate you know he's trying to convince me that he is the Normal double, that he did everything he could, that he didn't do .

this mean you go in there I know with your eyes open. I mean, this is a guy who who's either telling the truth or who has had a lot of experience telling a very good lie. 对。 So you're watching for the right.

Um one of the things one of the reasons James did the interview elyssa brother was um he really wanted to talk about covers ve control and it's he feels that his family his siblings were almost under my tourney spell, if he will, that he was controlling them about what what they should do, what they should believe he is in charge you what he says is the gospel like mike turney is king in that house .

and he didn't have any boundaries like he didn't see the one to let anybody live their own life which again is not a crime. But it's it's going to make the other people in your home um very unhappy and that .

some of what James at least believes as far as Sarah goes that you know because Sarah I was initially supporting her dad and then and then made that transition into not supporting him and not believing him and I was James feels that he finally got away from that course of control SHE got out from under his spell and was able to think for herself and this is from talking to James, of course, because we we did not talk to sera about that. But this is what James beliefs.

The problem is, I mean, if you if you're looking at this from the outside, which I am, all of that makes IT much easier to understand why somebody in that house would either make up an allegation against him to get away from, or to get him away. I mean, I to get there, I want run away.

You certainly could make that argument.

H, there's a couple of great twists in here. First of all, there's the guy that that confesses to killing .

her the the criminal killed self proclaimed social killer .

who turns IT turns out they didn't believe him and then the other is the the bombs, the guns, the the the possible mass casuality event that my tourneys planning. I mean, to quote um my favorite daylight corresponding ly cow, I love IT when you said that. So I really .

like what 为什么？ Why can you imagine being the neighbors? You find out what your neighbors up to and then you know we're were in the backyard with the one duty the neighbor and she's SHE took us back to that time where she's looking over the fence and they're searching for a listen the backyard and you know the other thing that was really interesting was, you know we talked about the defense attorneys um Jamie Jackson, you know um mix defensive tourney has a really interesting story himself um he he's a canadian who was a hockey player and um he was on A A bus that crashed and he lost his ARM and um he ended up obviously switching gears, became a lawyer and found himself at the vegas shooting .

of years ago yeah .

the mass shooting right Jamie was there and um as the story goes from Jamie he ended up he saving a woman's life, he saw a woman who was a bleeding to death and he found a belt and with his one ARM in his mouth essentially created a turn ict for her gotten to an off duty police officer um who then managed to get her to the hospital in and saved her life wow but he and he's a very good defense attorney um and also remembers is a public defender well.

I mean, there there they are. They are overworked and underpaid and they have too many and they don't and they don't have the resources that they that they often need. Yes.

exactly what I was just going to say um in this case, you know I was just so impressed and I don't know you find this as well. A lot of times public defenders won't talk to us um and but Jimmy and oliva a did you know did the interview and they were and just I thought they were .

obviously just so effective for a public defender to get a directed verdict of equal um in a homicide case is a home run. I guarantee you they're still talking about jammy at the courthouse down there.

Absolutely he's talked attorney and Olivia.

Let me ask you finally sort of about about Sarah and about James um because even though there's there's been a verdict for them, this case is over.

It's not in Sarah, uh continues our efforts when IT comes to lisa, keeping work the word out there, keeping attention on the case seras now also helping other families anyway he can with her podcast and her social media efforts. James um feels very vulnerable with his father now free, which is really sad. Um he's concerned about his father. He is concerned about his safety. He is really struggling with this this outcome.

He didn't live in fex anymore. I want to be moved away in sort of several al contact.

He he wants nothing to do with his father.

Fall out of stories like this.

Yes, but you know what I told her? I said I, I said, I am so impressed with how you turned out. You know, with everything he had been through, he seems so well adJusting and he talked so much about his daughter and how much he loves his daughter, his partner um and I was just so impressed with how he spoke so eloquently about everything and everything he'd been through and what he's learned from IT.

So that's one one thing to feel good about in this otherwise extremely set story in which there's not a lot to feel good about.

So he he's come out on the other side quite well, I would have to say from from talking to him, which made me really happy.

The episode is called the day Alyssa disappeared and Andrea canning. Thank you so much for coming here into talking date line.

Thank you.

Always a pleasure.

See on the vision. See on television.

Friday night on the line, did you .

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