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cover of episode 579. The Irish War of Independence: Showdown in London (Part 4)

579. The Irish War of Independence: Showdown in London (Part 4)

2025/7/2
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The Rest Is History
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D
David Lloyd George
D
Dominic Sandbrook
F
Frances Stevenson
T
Tom Holland
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David Lloyd George: 我是英国首相，我致力于维护大英帝国的统一和稳定。我深知爱尔兰独立运动的复杂性，也理解爱尔兰人民争取自治的愿望。然而，我必须优先考虑英国的国家利益和帝国的完整性。我提出的英爱条约，旨在在爱尔兰与大英帝国之间建立一种新的关系，既能满足爱尔兰的民族愿望，又能维护英国的战略利益。我深知，妥协是必要的，但任何协议都必须在不损害英国核心利益的前提下达成。我坚信，英爱条约是目前情况下最可行的解决方案，它将为爱尔兰带来和平与繁荣，并为英爱关系的未来奠定基础。我个人对天主教怀有偏见，但我相信，为了更大的利益，我们可以克服这些偏见。 Éamon de Valera: 我是爱尔兰共和国的总统，我致力于实现爱尔兰完全独立和建立一个独立的共和国。我拒绝接受任何将爱尔兰置于英国王室统治下的协议。英爱条约是对爱尔兰主权的侵犯，是对我们为争取独立而付出的巨大牺牲的背叛。我理解和平的必要性，但我绝不会为了和平而牺牲爱尔兰的独立性。我坚持爱尔兰的独立和主权，我将继续为实现这个目标而奋斗。我不会参与任何会损害爱尔兰独立的谈判。 Michael Collins: 我是爱尔兰共和军情报部门的负责人，我参与了英爱条约的谈判。我深知，爱尔兰共和军无法在军事上战胜英国。我意识到，为了结束战争，我们需要做出妥协。英爱条约虽然并非完美，但它为爱尔兰带来了自治，为我们最终实现完全独立铺平了道路。我理解那些反对条约的人的担忧，但我相信，这是一个必要的妥协，它将为爱尔兰带来和平与繁荣。我们必须抓住这个机会，建设一个独立的爱尔兰。 Arthur Griffith: 我是新芬党的创始人，我参与了英爱条约的谈判。我最初的目标是建立一个独立的共和国，但我意识到，在当时的情况下，这几乎是不可能的。我支持英爱条约，因为它为爱尔兰带来了自治，为我们最终实现完全独立创造了条件。我知道，这个条约并非完美，但它是一个重要的第一步。我们必须抓住这个机会，建设一个繁荣的爱尔兰。我承认，在谈判过程中，我做出了某些让步，但我相信，这些让步是必要的，是为了实现更大的目标。

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Shownotes Transcript

What were the terms of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, signed in December 1921, following negotiations between the UK and Sinn Féin? How was it received by the Irish people? What was the process by which it was agreed between Lloyd George, Winston Churchill, Michael Collins, and Arthur Griffith? Why did Éamon de Valera object to the treaty, and how did this sow the seeds of civil war? Had the Irish beaten the British militarily up to this point? And, what would be the consequences of this controversial treaty for the future of Ireland, and Anglo-Irish relations?

Join Dominic and Tom as they discuss the totemic Anglo-Irish Treaty - one of the most controversial moments in Irish political history, which would transform the fate of Ireland forever…  

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Producer: Theo Young-Smith

Assistant Producer: Tabby Syrett + Aaliyah Akude 

Executive Producers: Jack Davenport + Tony Pastor

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