cover of episode Were the Covid Lockdowns Worth It?

Were the Covid Lockdowns Worth It?

2025/3/20
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Frances Lee
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Stephen Macedo
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Stephen Macedo: 我认为,在新冠疫情的应对中,旨在追求真理的机构(新闻媒体、科学界和学术界)的运作并不理想。存在过早的政策共识、不愿重新审视既有假设以及不容忍批评和不同观点的情况。这些问题损害了我们对政策的回应和纠错能力。此外,我对疫情期间政策的缺乏质疑感到震惊,尤其是在我所处的学术界和主流媒体圈子里,质疑往往被视为错误或不道德。通过对新冠疫情的研究,我发现自己对疫情期间发生的事情感到震惊,这促使我更深入地研究和反思。 在疫情初期,采取封锁措施可能有一定道理,但随着时间的推移,我们应该有更广泛的讨论,包括更多不同领域的专家和普通民众的参与。政策选择总是涉及多种价值观的权衡,我们不能仅仅关注拯救生命的单一指标。 我们应该在制定政策时考虑成本和效益,并进行更广泛、更包容的讨论,避免权力过度集中在少数专家手中。对疫情期间政策进行反思,有助于增进公众对政府的信任,而不是加剧阴谋论。 Frances Lee: 在新冠疫情爆发前,对于封锁、停课等非药物干预措施的有效性存在很大的不确定性,甚至很多证据表明这些措施效果不佳。面对疫情带来的巨大威胁,政府官员可能抱有希望,并听取了他们想听到的意见,忽视了长期思考和多种价值的权衡。在疫情早期,各州对疫情的应对措施基本一致,但在重新开放过程中出现了分歧,民主党的州比共和党的州维持封锁措施的时间更长,重新开放学校的速度也更慢,但早期并没有导致死亡率的显著差异。 虽然限制措施在一定程度上减缓了病毒传播,但并没有显著降低死亡率,这可能是因为限制措施存在漏洞、病毒传播效率高、以及对易感人群的保护不足等原因。疫苗接种是降低死亡率的关键因素,在疫苗推出后,疫苗接种率高的州的疫情结果要好于疫苗接种率低的州。新冠疫情的封锁措施带来了巨大的经济和社会成本,包括教育损失、医疗支出增加以及巨额的疫情救济支出。基于目前的研究结果,尚无法断定疫情期间采取的紧急干预措施是否值得。格林·巴林顿宣言的出现以及其引发的强烈反弹,反映了疫情期间政策讨论的不足和缺乏容忍度。疫情限制措施未能保护基本工作者免受感染,导致社会负担不公平地分配。 Michael Barbaro: (访谈主持人的问题和引导性发言,此处不作核心论点总结)

Deep Dive

Chapters
This chapter explores the initial uncertainty surrounding the effectiveness of lockdowns in combating COVID-19. It examines pre-pandemic planning documents and studies that revealed a lack of consensus and evidence supporting the widespread adoption of lockdowns. The role of the World Health Organization and influential reports are also discussed.
  • Pre-pandemic planning documents showed skepticism about the effectiveness of lockdowns.
  • The World Health Organization's endorsement of China's lockdown approach influenced global policy.
  • Studies from Johns Hopkins and the UK government also expressed skepticism about lockdowns' effectiveness.

Shownotes Transcript

Five years ago, at the urging of federal officials, much of the United States locked down to stop the spread of Covid. Over time, the action polarized the country and changed the relationship between many Americans and their government.

Michael Barbaro speaks to Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee, two prominent political scientists who dispute the effectiveness of the lockdowns, to find out what they think will be required when the next pandemic strikes.

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Guest: Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee, authors of In Covid’s Wake: How Our Politics Failed Us

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For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily). Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

Photo: Hilary Swift for The New York Times

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