Ep. 2149 - Trump-Zelenskyy Meeting GOES TOTALLY NUCLEAR
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Got a ton coming up for you on today's show. It is a mega show today. President Trump throws Vladimir Zelensky, the leader of Ukraine, out of the White House after a nuclear meltdown of a press conference. The rest of the world reacts, and we examine whether there's a new Trump doctrine or whether Zelensky simply blew it. We'll get to all that first tomorrow night. Daily Wire Backstage returns live for President Donald Trump's address to Congress. We are covering it all. Do not miss the exclusive pre-show at 8.30 p.m. Eastern, followed by the full address completely uninterrupted. And when he's done, we're back with a breakdown of what it all means.

Watch with us tomorrow night at Daily Wire Plus. Okay, so before I get to the actual nuclear meltdown of a press conference, and we're going to go through the whole press conference because I think that it is a disservice to all involved for us to simply focus on the moment where everything went south. This is a long press conference. It was a nearly 50-minute press conference. And I want to go through everything that led up to the press conference because it sort of

where everybody is, President Trump, Vice President Vance, Vladimir Zelensky, the president of Ukraine, and how we got to the nuclear meltdown. I want to remind you what a wise man wrote in October of 2022, quote, Henry Kissinger has been publicly excoriated for suggesting that the off-ramp to this conflict will be territorial concessions by Ukraine to Russia, a repeat of the Moscow Peace Treaty that was signed after the Soviet invasion of Finland in 1941. But he may be correct. Protecting Ukraine

particularly if the West is unwilling to bear the full economic and military cost of a larger war with Russia. In the end, it may be that the least bad scenario is about simply preventing the worst case scenario. That wise man, of course, was yours truly. I've been arguing since mid-2022 that the off-ramp in Ukraine involved territorial concessions to Russia, Donbass, and Crimea in return for security guarantees that would ensure no renewal of Russian war in Ukraine.

That has been the clear off-ramp for legitimately almost three years at this point. And so my view when it comes to the war in Ukraine is whatever gets us to that durable off-ramp is good. And whatever gets in the way of that durable off-ramp is bad.

That's all. By the way, that also happens to be the policy of the Trump administration, which is seeking an off-ramp that would, in fact, not allow Vladimir Putin to waltz into Kiev, but also acknowledges that the likelihood of Ukraine winning back Donbass and Crimea is basically zero and has been since 2014. So that was the predicate to the big meeting that was supposed to happen on Friday. So on Friday, President of Ukraine, Vladimir Zelensky, was supposed to arrive in the United States and go to the White House, and he was supposed to sign a minerals deal. Now,

There was an immediate conflict between what both parties wanted from this. President Trump, he wanted the minerals deal because number one, he believes that the United States ought to be repaid for its investment in other countries.

in other countries. This has been a longstanding belief of President Trump's that when we get involved in foreign policy, there ought to be sort of a clear return to the United States, whether we're talking about defending Kuwait from Saddam Hussein or whether we're talking about paying to defend Ukraine from Russia. There should be some sort of return to the American taxpayer. Otherwise, in President Trump's beliefs, we are getting screwed. That has been a longstanding Trumpian position. But there is something else going on here. And this is made clear during the press conference.

President Trump always saw the economic minerals deal as a sort of foot in the door to prevent a Russian invasion. Because if the United States has workers in Ukraine who are, for example, mining rare earths minerals,

And then the Russians invade. The United States is immediately dragged in. And President Trump is not wrong about this. In fact, for centuries, this has been a Western way of making war, is that if there is, in fact, the British East India Company that gets involved in trade in a far-flung place, and then they are attacked by the local government,

That does actually dredge up the problem of perhaps the British Empire getting directly militarily involved. And so you don't want to screw with the British East India Company. That is almost how President Trump is seeing the rare earth minerals deal.

That is what he's doing right there. Meanwhile, Zelensky is saying, I can't go back to my people and say that I signed a minerals deal or anything else without security guarantees. If the final settlement does not involve actual explicit security guarantees, I can't actually go back to my people with that. Which, by the way, is one of the reasons I've also been suggesting for years that the United States might have to go over Zelensky's head in order to negotiate the end of this war and then cram it down on him. They might have to, the United States, might have to go to Russia and say, listen, we know the outline of the deal.

You may not like it. We may not like it. Zelensky may not like it. But again, outline of the deal, Donbass and Crimea remain in Russian hands. There are, in fact, security guarantees to the Ukrainians, and that's the best it's going to get. OK, so entering this meeting, all President Trump wanted was a grip and grin. All he wanted was for Zelensky to show up and Trump would shake his hand and there would be a sort of implicit understanding that almost became explicit during this meeting.

That the rare earth minerals deal was a sort of trigger force for the United States providing security guarantees. And Trump comes very close to saying that several times in the actual meetings. Zelensky comes in with another agenda. And as we'll see, it's probably because he was prepped by Democrats, apparently. He comes in and he wants President Trump in the room to say that he is going to give a security guarantee, a thing that President Trump does not want to do.

Because again, from President Trump's perspective, the United States should not have to provide that security guarantee. Basically, Europe should have to provide that security guarantee. So that is the setup right here. Now, beyond that, there's personal dislike between these two leaders. So Vladimir Zelensky does not like President Trump.

He's angry at President Trump. He believes that President Trump and Vice President Vance do not like him, that they've said nasty things about him, which is true, that they have said things that are untrue about the Ukraine-Russia war in terms of casting moral aspersions at Ukraine that are unearned while going easy on Vladimir Putin. There's a case to be made that that's true as well. The Trump-Vance case is Zelensky is being intransigent because he wants my moral condemnation, but moral condemnation don't get the job done. The thing that gets the job done is whatever gets us to that off-ramp. So if that means that we have to sort of massage Putin

in public relations in order to get him to the table, then we'll do that.

That is another one of these conflicts that's happening. And by the way, Vladimir Zelensky, people forget this because of course, he has been a very famous world leader since the outbreak of the 2022 war. Zelensky was an actor. He's an egomaniac. Zelensky likes being on camera. He made his money on camera. There's all sorts of footage of him wandering around the internet when he was a comedian doing bizarre things, body humor kind of stuff. That's who Zelensky is. So he's quite performative, like very performative. And guess what? So is President Trump. And so as it turns out is Vice President Vance. Okay.

So that's the setup. The powder keg is right there. Now, it didn't have to go sideways. It didn't. Zelensky could have come in, could have done the grip and grin, could have gotten the win, could have walked out, and that would have been enough. But Zelensky really blows it. I mean, he really, really blows it here. I will say, of the three people in the room, the adult in the room is Trump. By far, it's not close. Zelensky comes in. He's very aggressive. He is, in fact, rude to President Trump. He's a little rude to J.D. Vance. J.D. Vance

I do not think acquits himself well in this particular exchange. I know there are people on the right who think that J.D. Vance handled himself beautifully here. I think that J.D. Vance actually threw a couple of hand grenades into the middle of the conversation.

Because there may in fact be some foreign policy differences between Vance's view of the United States in the world and Trump's view of the United States in the world. That may be emerging. It's kind of an interesting conversation. We'll save for a little later in the show. What are the ramifications of all of this? Which direction does the world go after this blow up of meeting? Now, I want to get into the actual meeting. So as you can see, the interpersonal dynamics are already set from the very beginning.

for things to be pretty contentious. When Vladimir Zelensky shows up at the White House, he is wearing a sort of military jumpsuit. And now this has been a sort of bugaboo for many people on the right for a long time. Zelensky wears what Trump has called a costume. Why doesn't he wear a suit? Now, would it have behooved Zelensky to wear a suit for Trump? Absolutely. What's the downside?

I understand that Zelensky is trying to keep his country's spirits up, but it seems to me that if he had shown up in a suit, had a great meeting with Trump and walked out, that would have been a pretty good boost for the Ukrainian soldiers on the front lines.

Is it really more important that he shows up in the jumpsuit as some sort of slap in the face at Trump? Again, this setup leads one to believe that one of the things that Zelensky is doing here is he is recognizing tacitly that the United States is out of the Ukraine business. And what he's actually trying to do, perhaps strategically, is blow up the meeting in order to get the EU to step in and try and provide some sort of aid that the United States is unwilling to provide. If that's the case, then Zelensky actually got something that he wanted out of this whole situation. But you can see right from the get-go, there's some antagonism right at the outset.

He's all dressed up today. OK, he's all dressed up today. Right. And Zelensky, you can see, is a little bit ticked off by this. Obviously, a huge size differential. Zelensky is not a big man. And Trump is a very large human being. And then they finally sit down in and they are and they have this conversation.

So again, we're going to go through this in detail because this is, I think, one of the most fascinating and probably historic conversations we have ever seen publicly between a president of the United States and a foreign leader. And we should recognize that conversations like this have wide-ranging ramifications in terms of future policy. For example, the Iraq War was largely begun. The original Iraq War, the Gulf War, might have started because of a stray comment from

from a low-level State Department staffer who sort of implied that if Saddam Hussein had walked into Kuwait, the United States might not actually do anything about it. So her name was April Glaspie. And the State Department had told Saddam Hussein that Washington had no special defense or security commitments to Kuwait. And at that point, Saddam took that seriously and he walked into Kuwait. So stray comments,

Certainly big blowups like this can have some pretty radical ramifications for how foreign policy is conducted. In the same way that the Russian invasion of Ukraine probably has to do with the United States pulling out of Afghanistan ignominiously in disgrace. In the same way, comments that are made on the public stage can have extraordinarily powerful ramifications for the future of foreign policy. That's why we're going to go through this in such detail.

All of us could have pretty radical ramifications for Ukraine, for the United States as well. We'll get into that. First, this country was founded on freedom. Freedom from a country that forced us to buy their overpriced tea and then tried blockading us when we dumped their tea into the ocean. How'd that work out for you, Great Britain? Well, it's time to throw your overpriced big wireless contract overboard as well. You don't need to pay 100 bucks a month just to get a free phone. Pure Talk, my cell phone company, says no to inflated prices.

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And we've been working very hard, very close. So we've actually known each other for a long time. We've been dealing with each other for a long time and very well. We had a little negotiation spat, but that worked out great, I think, for both countries. I think for the world, actually, beyond both countries. And we have something that is a very fair deal. And we look forward to getting in and digging, digging, digging, and working and getting some of the rare earth

But it means we're going to be inside, and it's a big commitment from the United States. And we appreciate working with you very much. And we will continue to do that. We have had some very good discussions with Russia. I spoke with President Putin, and we're going to try and bring this to a close. It's something that you want and that he wants. We have to negotiate a deal. But we've started the confines of a deal, and I think something can happen.

So you can see from Zelensky's body language, he's immediately on his guard. He's already very nervous. He's clearly not liking what he's hearing from Trump. What Trump is saying here is extremely good for Zelensky. Zelensky came in oriented against Trump from the beginning. And you can see what Trump is saying here is he's looking for some sort of win. That's all he says right from the beginning. We had a negotiation spab and that worked out great.

And we're looking forward to getting in and digging, digging, digging, working, getting some of the rare earth. But it means we're going to be inside. And it's a big commitment from the United States. What is he saying there? What President Trump is saying there is we look forward to getting boots on the ground, digging things. And once we're there, it's sort of a tacit security guarantee. Now, Zelensky comes out firing. Zelensky comes out and he's like, I want a security guarantee in the room. Hey, what you got? Yeah.

You understand why he wants it. He is the president of Ukraine. He does not want another negotiation that ends with, in two years, the Russians coming back in. However, these are negotiations that you save for the back room. This is not stuff that you do in the front room. Why is he negotiating in the room with President Trump? Trump isn't rejecting a security guarantee outright here. Trump has said nothing about a security guarantee. It's Zelensky who starts pushing him right out the gate. Thank you so much, Mr. President. Thank you for your invitation.

and really I hope that this

document, first document will be first step to real security guarantees for Ukraine, our people, our children. I really count on it. And of course, we count that America will not stop support. Really, for us, it's very important to support and to continue it. I want to discuss it with details further during our conversation and, of course, the infrastructure or security guarantees. Because for today, I understand what Europe is ready to do.

And of course I want to discuss with you what the United States will be ready to do. And I really count on your strong position to stop Putin. And you said that enough with the war. I think that is very important, Bin, to say these words to Putin at the very beginning. At the very beginning of war, because he is a killer and terrorist. But I hope that together we can stop him. But for us it's very important to, you know, to save our country, our values.

Okay, now, here's the thing. Trump could blow up him at this point. But you're two minutes deep into the meeting. So what does Trump do? Like an adult, President Trump sits there, he listens to Zelensky, and he doesn't blow it up.

He understands what Zelensky is saying. Zelensky is saying, I don't want to make any compromises. Putin's a killer. I want security guarantees. I want to work the Europeans into this. He's having a negotiation in the room in front of the press. So Zelensky is the one who starts this whole thing. And for 40 minutes, Trump allows him to do it. Why? Because that's what an adult does. What an adult does is he says, listen, I understand that you've got to rant for the cameras. You've got to do your thing for the camera. I get it. I totally get it. And in the back room, we're going to negotiate what this actually looks like.

And listen to how sober President Trump is here. I mean, it is an amazing thing. For the guy who's supposed to be the one flying off the handle, in this meeting, it is not Trump who flies off the handle. It is Zelensky and then Vance who flies off the handle. So here is President Trump. I think once we make the agreement, that's going to be 95% of it. They're not going to go back to fighting.

I've spoken with President Putin and I think I mean, I feel very strong. I've known him for a long time and I feel very strongly that they're very serious about it and we'll make a deal. And when the deal is made, I don't think we talk about security. Everyone's talking about the other day. All they talked about was security. I said, let me make the deal first. I have to make the deal first. So what is he saying again? He's saying the same thing.

When it comes to the economy, he's going to make the deal first, and that is going to be the lever that allows for security guarantees. That is what he is saying. Okay, this continues. This is clip five. So a reporter asks Zelensky if he feels like the United States is on the side of Ukraine at the moment. And President Trump's like, what are you even asking that for? I mean, clearly we are. I'm here with him. I'm signing a rare earth minerals agreement with him, like right now.

Do you feel like the U.S. is on your side, that President Trump is on your side at this moment? What do you think? He wants to know, do you think that... It's sort of a stupid question. I guess we wouldn't be here if I wasn't. I think that the United States, on our side, from the very beginning of occupation,

And I think that President Trump on our side and and of course, I know I'm sure that United States president will not stop support. This is crucial for us. OK, so again, that's Zelensky pushing. So Trump says, of course, I'm going to decide what we're going to sign an agreement. All Trump wants from this meeting is to get out of there with the rare earth minerals deal that is going to provide the lever for a broader American commitment or tacit American commitment to the security of Ukraine.

That's what this is. And Zelensky keeps pushing because he feels like publicly he needs to push. I don't know if he thought that he was going to get Trump to cave in the room or something, or if this is all virtue signaling for the cameras.

or if he feels he needs to say this for his own people at home, or if this was all a sort of design to blow up the meeting in order to get the Europeans to step in. I'm not sure what Zelensky's strategy here was. All I know, it's a very, very bad strategy. So President Trump, again, being very sober about all of this. And for all the talk about how Trump was the one who was combative in this, he really was not. For 40 minutes, he sat there while Zelensky effectively attempted to negotiate a deal in the room. And here's President Trump talking about compromise.

I think you're going to have to always make compromises. You can't do any deals without compromises. So certainly he's going to have to make some compromises, but hopefully they won't be as big as some people think you're going to have to make. That's all. It's all we can do. I'm here as an arbitrator, as a mediator to a certain extent between two parties that have been very hostile.

Now, you can see a fundamental difference between Trump and Zelensky here. Zelensky thinks that the United States is full-fledged on the side of Ukraine in terms of this negotiation, meaning they should, like Biden, just pour in the aid without any sort of end, without any sort of designs to end the war. And Trump says, listen, I got to broker a deal. I want the deal. Now,

We'll talk about the ramifications of the meeting and how actually one of the things that the Trump administration might think about doing, and President Trump had said during that campaign pretty clearly, is say to Vladimir Putin, listen, we want a deal. You know we want a deal. We've been very obvious about how we want a deal. I've been giving you all sorts of props in public. If you don't make a deal, then we're going to ratchet up support because we can't just let you win by default, right? But that's not actually the approach that Trump is taking, and that's arguable. But again, in the meeting...

So far, Trump is the person who's being mature and Zelensky is the person, as I say over and over again, you can hear him being combative. This is for 40 minutes. You know, one of these sort of hot moments happened when one of the reporters is a guy from One America News Network. I believe this reporter happens to be dating Marjorie Taylor Greene, the congresswoman from Georgia, and asks Zelensky about wearing a suit. Do you ever, why don't you wear a suit?

Why? You have problems. Really? I don't have such... I will wear a costume after this war will finish. Yes, maybe...

Maybe something like yours, yes? Maybe something better, I don't know. We will see. Maybe something cheaper. Thank you.

Well, there was a sartorial spat inside the Oval Office, and you know, it's kind of fun to cover that sort of stuff. But there are other things I love about working in the news industry as well. Every day I get to connect with millions of listeners, share breaking stories, and work with incredible talent who are just as passionate about politics as I am. If you're doing what you love to do, there's nothing better than being surrounded by people who love it the way that you do. And if you own your own business, you want to hire employees who love what they do to boost the overall success of your business. Plus,

Thank you.

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Here he is. I don't want to talk about security yet because I want to get the deal done. You know, you fall into the same trap like everybody else a million times. You said over and over. I want to get the deal done. Security is so easy. That's about two percent of the problem. I'm not worried about security. I'm worried about getting the deal done. The security is the easy part. Security is very nice. Everybody stop shooting.

And now will Europe put people there? I know France is going to. I know the UK is going to. I know other countries are going to. And they happen to be right next door. We haven't committed, but we could conceivably, you know, we have security in a different form. OK, he's right there giving Zelensky what he wants. This is where Zelensky should say, OK, great, Mr. President, we'll talk about this behind closed doors. And he doesn't. Right. Trump said these words, quote, we haven't committed, but we could conceivably, you know, we have security in a different form.

He's giving Zelensky what he wants. He's giving him the excuse. But Zelensky can't take the W. He can't take the W. So Zelensky keeps pushing. Yeah, so please, about security guarantees and about ceasefire. We can't just speak about ceasefire and speak and speak. It will not work.

Justice Fire will never work because I'm like a president. I have this experience and not only me. Ukraine before my presidency from 2014, Putin broken 25 times. 25 times he broken his own signature. 25 times he broken ceasefire.

OK, so again, you can see Zelensky is saying that Putin can't be trusted. This is why we need security. And again, I don't think that Zelensky is wrong about this per se, but why is he negotiating all of this? And he's not going to get what he wants in the room. So President Trump has asked about NATO. And again, I think one of the things that the people want to attribute to Trump is that he wants to rewrite all the bargains of the of the world. And there are people inside the Republican Party who clearly want to do this.

But I'm not sure that that is what President Trump wants. There's been a lot of talk about Trump, for example, pulling out of NATO. Some loose talk. Elon Musk suggested that over the weekend. That would be, I think, a terrible move. There's been a lot of talk about President Trump basically ripping up the idea that America guarantees the freedom of the seas and sort of conceding the Far East to China and all the rest of this kind of stuff. And we'll get into that in a little bit. But here's President Trump projecting that outright. He's asked about NATO. He's asked about Poland. He's asked about the Baltics. And here's what he says.

I'm very committed to Poland. I think Poland has really stepped up and done a great job for NATO. As you know, they paid more than they had to. They are one of the finest groups of people I've ever known. I'm very committed to Poland. What about the Baltics? Poland's in a tough neighborhood, you know. What about the Baltics? The Baltics, they got a lot of... It's a tough neighborhood too, but we're committed. We're going to be very committed, and we're committed to NATO.

But NATO has to step up and the Europeans have to step up more than they have. And I want to see them equalize because they are in for far less than we're in and they should be at least equal. OK, so again, this is President Trump actually saying the peace through strength thing, right? We want to be in NATO. Everybody's got to pay their pay up, pay their fair share. Nothing here is radical. Nothing here is particularly polarizing in what President Trump is saying.

OK, and then Zelensky, he continues to push. This is the theme. The theme is that for the first 40 minutes, Zelensky pushes and Trump is pretty passive. Trump does not push back too hard. Here's Zelensky talking about Russia's intentions on the Baltics, on Poland. And by the way, he's not wrong that Russia obviously is revanchist, that Russia would love to split apart NATO by invading, say, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia if NATO weren't there.

But Trump just committed to a continued NATO funding in those places. Here's Zelensky. And also, it's about the NATO. Yes, between, like the president said, you have big, nice ocean. Yes, between us. But if we will not stay, Russia will go further to Baltics and to Poland, by the way. But first to the Baltics. It's understandable for them because they've been

They've been in the USSR, you know, they've been one of the republics of the USSR and Putin wants to bring them back to his empire. It's a fact. And when he will go there, if we will not stay, you will fight. You're American soldiers. It doesn't matter. Do you have option or not? Your soldiers will fight.

You know, President Trump could fire back on him right there. That's not true. You know, why would American soldiers have to fight in the Baltics? He doesn't fight back on this because President Trump is actually not talking about surrendering all of Eastern Europe to Vladimir Putin, like all of his critics claim that he is. And then Trump is asked about why he has not said mean words about Putin. And this is Trump's perspective. If I say mean words about Putin, does that get us to a deal or does it not get us to a deal? Here's President Trump.

Well, if I didn't align myself with both of them, you'd never have a deal. You want me to say really terrible things about Putin and then say, hi, Vladimir, how are we doing on the deal? That doesn't work that way. I'm not aligned with Putin. I'm not aligned with anybody. I'm aligned with the United States of America. And for the good of the world, I'm aligned with the world.

And I want to get this thing over with. You see the hatred he's got for Putin. It's very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hate. He's got tremendous hatred. And I understand that. But I can tell you the other side isn't exactly in love with, you know, him either. So it's not a question of alignment.

Again, Trump is just saying, I want to get to a deal, right? Okay, now the meeting could have ended any time in here. Here's where it started to go sideways, like really sideways. And again, it's very tense. You can see the tension. Zelensky's tense. He's leaning toward Trump almost aggressively throughout this meeting. Trump's kind of sitting back, kind of taking it like an adult. And the adult in the room was Trump in this meeting. It just, that is the reality. Okay, so J.D. Vance jumps in. So J.D. hasn't said anything this entire time. And the vice president of the United States is sitting there now.

In my belief, the vice presidents of the United States should have been attempting to facilitate the end of this meeting. OK, everything that needs to be said has now been said. He should have and Trump should have and everybody should. And Zelensky should have been everybody's interest to say, OK, guys, now we've taken 45 minutes of questions. We're going to go in the back room. We're going to talk and then we're going to do a signing ceremony. And so here's what happens. Vance decides he needs to jump in and he needs to defend President Trump.

Again, I know this is Vice President Vance's sort of typical role as bulldog for Trump. I get it. That's fine. But it does set off a conflagration. So here is Vance. And again, what he says right here is not particularly controversial.

But Zelensky decides that he is going to go after Vance. Now, the reality is that whatever relationships Zelensky has with Trump, his relationship with Vance is terrible. His relationship with Vance is terrible because Vance has openly said he does not care if Russia just eats up Ukraine, just doesn't care.

Because Vance associates with a number of public figures who say some of the wildest things about Ukraine it is possible to say and some of the most pro-Putin things it is possible to say. And I'm sure Zelensky knows this. And so Zelensky takes offense, I think, at the fact that he's in the room with Vance. And that's Zelensky's fault. It is. But Vance then escalates. So you'll see. We're going to break this down. This is the critical clip from the meeting.

It's several minutes. We're going to stop and start it so we can analyze what exactly happens here. Here is Vice President Vance jumping in to defend President Trump over the accusation that somehow because he wants to negotiate an end to the war, that this makes him pro-Putin. I want to respond to this. So look,

For four years in the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden of thumping our chest and pretending

that the president of the United States' words mattered more than the president of the United States' actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That's what President Trump is doing. Can I ask you? Okay, stop it right there for a second. Okay, so what Vance says there is totally inarguable. Okay, the vice president, he doesn't think he's about to get into a fight with Zelensky. Zelensky jumps in and starts fighting with Vance. Again, there's some people who think that Vance set up, I don't think that's right. If you hear what Vice President Vance says right there,

Not only does he rip on Biden, but he literally says the words Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. Now, there's been controversy for two weeks over whether this administration is willing to admit that Putin started the war. That is Vance himself saying that Putin invaded the country and destroyed a large chunk of it. So this is not Vance attempting to start a firefight. Zelensky jumps in and starts arguing with Vance.

And I'm not sure what was going through Zelensky's head right here, honestly. It could be that he was planning some sort of conflagration to get European support. Again, it could be that he's trying to signal to the folks back home. It could be he just doesn't like JD Vance. Okay, but this thing breaks into like a wild nuclear meltdown here. Here is Zelensky going after Vance. Sure. Yeah? Yeah. Okay. So he occupied our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of East and Crimea, Ukraine.

So he occupied it on 2014. So during a lot of years, I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those time was Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump, and God bless, now President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the contact line is?

2014. 2014. 2014. Yeah, yeah. So he killed-- I was not here. Yeah, but-- That's exactly right. Yes, but during 2014 till 2022,

The situation was the same. People have been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, bilateral conversations. And we signed with him, me, like a new president in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, Macron and Merkel, we signed ceasefire.

ceasefire all of them told me that he will never go we signed him with gas contract gas contract yes but after that he broken this ceasefire he killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners we signed the exchange of prisoners but he didn't do it what kind of diplomacy jd you are speaking about what what do you what do you what do you mean i'm talking about the kind of diplomacy right here

Okay, so you'll hear Vance's response. So Vance's first sentence in response to Zelensky is the correct response. And that should be the end of the meeting. He should have said, you know, President Zelensky, I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that will actually end this war properly. We're going to have these discussions behind closed door. Instead, Vice President Vance takes the opportunity to throw two grenades. One is directed at President Trump and one is directed at Zelensky. The one that is clearly directed, President Trump, is that he mentions, as you will see,

Zelensky going to Pennsylvania in the final days of the campaign and walking around Pennsylvania with Josh Shapiro. That is clearly directed at Trump. Okay, the reason he is mentioning that is to piss Trump off because that is like a red flag in front of a bull. If you mention that Zelensky, which again, it was an idiot move, a foolish move, I commented on the time that Zelensky went to Pennsylvania and campaigned with Josh Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania, who was campaigning for Kamala Harris.

In the last in the last stages of the campaign, if you mention that in front of Trump, Trump is going to get enraged. He's also going to get enraged because Vance says out loud what Trump has probably been thinking. Trump's like, I've been contained this whole time. And Vance says, you're being really, really disrespectful. OK, if you say to Trump, this man is being disrespectful and loved Joe Biden. That is like a red flag in front of a bull. Meanwhile, he then says to Zelensky, a thing that no leader can sit there and hear, which is you're losing the war.

You're having to forcibly conscript people, right, which is an accusation about the inhumanity of the Ukrainian regime that, frankly, Vance didn't use with regard to, say, Vladimir Putin, who has kidnapped apparently tens of thousands of Ukrainian children and then taken them back to Russia for russification and all of this. So you can hear this is this is the part. So Zelensky started it. And then J.D. just pours the fuel on the fire, like really pours the fuel on the fire. Here we go.

I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. Yes, but if you are not strong... Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the President for trying to bring an end to this conflict. Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?

I have been to... Come once. I've actually watched and seen the stories, and I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people?

Bringing people into your military? And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country? A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning. First of all, during the war, everybody has problems.

Even you, but you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless. You don't know that. God bless. You don't know that. God bless. You will not have a war. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. I'm not telling you. Because you're in no position to dictate that. Remember this. I'm not dictating. You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel.

We're going to feel very good. You will feel influenced. We're going to feel very good and very strong. You will feel influenced. You're right now not in a very good position.

You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position, and he happens to be right about it. You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards. Right now, you're playing cards. You're playing cards. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III.

And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country. I'm with all respect to your country. Far more than a lot of people said they should have. Have you said thank you once? A lot of times. No, in this entire meeting that you said thank you, you went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October. Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country.

Please, you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war you can... He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble. Can I answer? No, no. You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble. I know. You're not winning. You're not winning this.

You have a damn good chance of coming out okay because of us. Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong from the very beginning of the war. We've been alone, and we are thankful. I said thanks in this cabinet and not only in this cabinet. We gave you, through this stupid president, $350 billion. We gave you military equipment, and you men are brave, but they had to use our military. If you didn't have our military equipment...

You invited me to speak -- The President: If you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks. Okay? Mr. In three days. I heard it from Putin. In three days. This is something new. The President: Maybe less. Mr. In two weeks. Of course, yes. The President: It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, I tell you. Mr. Again, can you just say thank you -- The President: I said a lot of times thank you to American people. Mr. -- except that there are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you're wrong.

We know that you're wrong. But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on over here. I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful. You don't have the cards. I'm thankful. You're buried there. Your people are dying. I can't tell you. You're running low on soldiers. Don't, don't, please. You're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing. Then you tell us, I don't want to cease fire. I don't want to cease fire. I want to go, and I wanted this. Look.

If you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you'd take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed. Of course we want to stop the war. But you're saying you don't want a ceasefire. But I said to you. I want a ceasefire. With guarantees. Because you'll get a ceasefire faster than an agreement. Okay, so Zelensky is so obviously spoiling for a fight. He's so obviously spoiling for a fight. And J.D. pushes back on him in a way that is designed to blow up the entire thing.

The people who wanted the fight in this meeting are Zelensky on the one side, who clearly was spoiling for a fight from pretty much the first moment.

And then J.D., when he gets his chance, the vice president of the United States, when he gets his chance, he immediately throws two grenades again, one designed to piss off Trump and one designed to piss off Zelensky. And Zelensky, who's been spoiling for a fight the whole time, jumps on that grenade with his chest and jumps on that grenade. And then he gets into a fight with Trump in the Oval Office. And then Trump, predictably, the fallout is that President Trump says, well, we don't get out from throws him out of the Oval Office.

And then he releases a statement on Truth Social, quote, We had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. It's amazing what comes out through emotion. I've determined that President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiation. I don't want advantage. I want peace. He disrespected the United States of America and its cherished global office. He can come back when he is ready for peace. OK, so what is the actual impact of all of that?

Now, again, the reality is that the end of the war, as I say, from the very beginning, the end of the war is Russia ends up with control of Donbass and Crimea. Security guarantees are issued by Europe. There's some tacit American support of those security guarantees in all likelihood. Whatever accelerates the process toward that is good. Whatever decelerates the progress toward that is bad. Did this whole tete-a-tete accelerate the progress toward that?

So many things can be true at once. One, I think Trump was the adult in the room pretty much his entire time. Two, Zelensky came in spoiling for a fight. And as we'll examine in just a moment, that's probably because he was talking with many of the wrong people in the United States. And also possibly because he's strategizing for European support. Three, Vice President Vance definitely escalated this. You can hear it in the exchange. It is Zelensky who is pushing Trump and Vance, but it is Vance who decides to get incredibly personal.

And I think that that may have something to do with Vance's own views on foreign policy, which, again, I don't know how well those match up with President Trump's generalized worldview on foreign policy, even if they cross over with regard to their perspectives on Zelensky. Zelensky then made the swores. Again, this is either brutal incompetence by Zelensky or an attempt to essentially drive support for Ukraine from the Europeans via hatred of Trump. It may be that could easily be that.

So Zelensky goes on Brett Baier that same evening. And here is Zelensky over and over and over refusing to apologize to the president. So I'm not hearing from you, Mr. President, a thought that you owe the president an apology. No, I respect the president and I respect American people. And if I don't know if president

I think that we have to be very open and very honest. And I'm not sure that we did something bad. I think maybe sometimes some things we have to discuss out of media.

So did any of this like change the underlying dynamics of the deal? Maybe not. But the perceptions from other players, say Russia and China, are going to matter. So Russia put out a statement saying that the United States' sudden shift in foreign policy, quote, largely aligns with its own position. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said, quote, the new administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations. This largely aligns with our vision.

There's a long way to go because a lot of damage has been done to the whole complex of bilateral relations. But if the political will of the two leaders, President Putin and President Trump, is maintained, this path could be quick and successful. And of course, they then insulted Vladimir Zelensky throughout all of this. So...

One of the big questions that we're going to have to answer here is whether this meeting is symptomatic of a broader American foreign policy shift or whether it is reflective of bad political calculations by Vladimir Zelensky, whether it is reflective of specific designs in Ukraine that doesn't have implications for, say, NATO or the Far East. That is the big question that comes out of all of this. And we'll get to that in just one moment.

First, tomorrow night, folks, 9 p.m. Eastern, President Donald Trump addresses Congress. A moment this big demands coverage like never before. That's exactly what we are bringing you. For the first time ever, Matt Walsh and I will be live from D.C. at the president's speech as history unfolds. It all starts with our exclusive pre-show at 8.30 p.m. Eastern on Daily Wire Plus, setting the stage for President Trump's address. Then watch Trump's speech with us live as we bring you the kind of real-time analysis you won't get anywhere else.

And don't go anywhere after. It's Backstage Live, breaking down every major moment in real time. This is the coverage you won't find on Legacy Media. Watch it all exclusively at Daily Wire Plus. Okay, so the Republican reaction to this was to condemn Zelensky quite proper. To Lindsey Graham, there's no bigger backer in Congress of the Ukraine involvement by the Americans than Senator Lindsey Graham. He said that Zelensky probably should resign over all of this because he's now blown out his level of support with Americans.

It was an absolute, utter disaster. The question for me is, is he redeemable in the eyes of Americans? Most Americans witnessing what they saw today would not want Zelensky to be their business partner. And Zelensky felt like he needed to bait Trump in the Oval Office. J.D. was awesome. This was a missed opportunity. And the question for me, for the Ukrainian people,

I don't know if Zelensky can ever get you to where you want to go with the United States. Either he dramatically changes or you need to get somebody new. So Speaker of the House Mike Johnson repeated that general sentiment, suggesting that this on CNN as well as NBC, that we know Vladimir Putin is going to be trusted. We're not abandoning Ukraine. But Zelensky is a disaster area.

I think Vladimir Putin is an old school communist, a former KGB agent. He's not to be trusted and he is dangerous. No, they're not abandoning Ukraine. I was with the president a day before that meeting and he was excited about this mineral rights deal. He believed it and we all believed it to be in the best interest of both countries.

We understand that he is a dangerous adversary and he is the one that provoked the war. Well, something has to change. Either he needs to come to his senses and come back to the table in gratitude or someone else needs to lead the country to do that. OK, so again, this has been the sort of general Republican response to all of this. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said something similar. He said, listen, we're not trying to undermine Ukraine. We're trying to get to a negotiated end here. And, you know, you can preen and you can posture, but the negotiated end kind of looks the same no matter how you slice it.

And we need to figure out, is there a way to get them to stop the war? And the only way you're going to do that is to get Russians engaged in negotiations, something the Europeans haven't been able to do, the Biden administration wasn't able to do or didn't even try. That's the goal here. It's that simple. Can we try to sit with them and figure out whether there's anything, what are the Russians' demands? Under what conditions would the Russians be willing to stop this war? And as I said, we don't know what those are because we haven't talked to them in three years.

That's the singular goal here is to probably bring about an end to this conflict. And it begins by getting them to the table. Howard Lutnick, who's the Commerce Secretary, repeated this. He says, listen, Zelensky came in here and wanted to make a make-believe bargain that wasn't on the table. What was he doing? That's why the president called it World War III. You're gambling with World War III. We're not going to give you security guarantees while you're at war with Russia. It's just ridiculous. His requests were ridiculous. They were not reasonable. The president let it go for a while.

you know, was very he was there to make peace. Our president is there to make peace, as he said, end the death. And Zelensky was not there to make peace. He was there to strike some sort of make believe bargain that he had in his mind. And eventually that just ran its course. And then Scott Besant, who's the Treasury Secretary, said something similar. He says, listen, the whole point of getting to an economic deal is to get to a peace deal. I mean, this is like the this is what Trump was saying in the room. Again, Trump was the adult.

It is impossible to have an economic deal without a peace deal. The sine qua non for an economic deal is that Ukrainian leadership wants a peace deal. I thought this was a building block towards getting to a peace deal. Well, it was supposed to be, but President Zelensky came into the Oval on Friday and

There were three things that were going to be done. There was going to be a press conference. There was going to be a private lunch with 16 of us. And as you can see from Dan Scavino's post on his ex-account, we were already set up to sign the deal. So it's unclear now. President Zelensky has thrown off the sequencing.

And this is right, by the way. Again, this is not just from the United States. The British ambassador to the United States, again, Impedal Mandelson, he said that that was the whole point. The whole point of the rare earth mineral deal was to set up the possibility of a peace deal that would then include some security guarantees.

And yes, I do think it would be a good idea if he signed the economic and commercial deal put forward by the United States. And the reason I say that is quite apart from the economic gain that Ukraine will derive from that. It will also give the United States

a stake in ukraine's future it will mean that u.s commercial interests u.s individuals citizens will be on the ground there and that will be an even greater added incentive for the us to protect uh the u the ukrainian future and make sure that war does not ensue again

Okay, by the way, you know who agrees with all this? Donald Trump. Donald Trump agrees with all this. So yesterday, President Trump went to Truth Social and he posted a quote from some dude named Michael McKeown, who I've never heard of. And here's the quote he posted, quote,

But here's the genius part: Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the U.S. into war. By negotiating a mineral drill, Trump ensures that Americans will be involved in Ukraine's mining industry. This prevents Russia from launching an invasion because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives, something that would force the U.S. to respond. Trump played both sides like a master chess player. In the end, Zelensky will have no choice but to concede because without U.S. support, Ukraine cannot win a prolonged war against Russia. And once U.S. companies have mining operations in Ukraine, Putin will be unable to attack without triggering massive international consequences.

Don't underestimate Donald Trump in this game of chess. He's 10 moves ahead of everyone. Okay, so that's what Trump was trying to do. Trump was trying to give Zelensky the W and Zelensky wouldn't take the W. So why did this go so wrong? Well, one reason apparently is because according to Michael Goodwin writing at the New York Post, Zelensky decided that he was going to take his hints and his advisory opinions from Democrats and

Quote, before meeting President Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. Quote, just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed the Ukrainian people will not support a thick peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine. The meeting, as the world now knows, went quickly off the rails and ended with Trump angrily ejecting the, quote, arrogant ingrate from the White House.

But apparently, again, the goal here for Democrats was to basically sink the deal. So Chris Murphy, who had advised Zelensky before the meeting, and he is a hardcore Democrat who'd love to run for president, senator from Connecticut. Here he was now suggesting that Trump was a Putin acolyte for the failure of the meeting. So in other words, Murphy sent Zelensky to get absolutely creamed in that meeting. And then he turns around and says that Trump is working for Putin.

It is absolutely shameful what is happening right now. The White House has become an arm of the Kremlin. Every single day you hear from the national security advisor, from the president of the United States, from his entire national security team, Kremlin talking points. For the last week, the White House has been pretending as if Ukraine started this war. That's essentially saying that Poland invaded Germany at the beginning of World War II.

So Murphy set this whole thing up to fail, presumably, or at least he was involved in it. Okay, so what is the actual outcome of all of this? Well, first of all, you have the idiot protesters. So a bunch of protesters showed up. The Vance family was supposed to go skiing. And people showed up for miles around to yell at J.D. Vance. They had to go to secure locations. This kind of stuff is gross. Really, really gross. Here's what that looked like. Yeah! Okay, you can hear people screaming at various cars.

They're just trying to go skiing for the weekend. So that's just absolutely delightful. What are the actual impacts from all of this? Well, on the one hand, it could be that Europe finally steps up and Trump actually gets what he wants out of this. That Europe decides that they are going to actually fill the gap. According to the Wall Street Journal, the UK and France said they would lead a European effort to forge a Ukraine peace plan to present to President Trump as they sought to patch up differences between Kiev and Washington following Friday's White House clash.

British Prime Minister Keir Starmer hosted nearly 20 allies in London on Sunday, said the progress had been made in building a coalition of the willing, which would commit military assets, including troops on the ground, to secure any eventual peace. He said more countries would need to come on board if Europe is to build a force that would actually deter Russian aggression in Ukraine.

Well, I mean, that's what Trump has been calling for all the way. And it's very weird to hear the Europeans suddenly doing the stuff that Trump actually wants them to do. Like, for example, spend on defense and commit to defending their own continent. Here is Ursula von der Leyen. She's the head of the EU, suggesting, weirdly enough, peace through strength. We had a very good and frank discussion. Basically, we've discussed everything that is around peace through strength.

And of course security guarantees are of utmost importance for Ukraine, but we need comprehensive security guarantees. This includes that we have to put Ukraine in a position of strength, that it has the means to fortify and protect itself from the economic survival to the military resilience.

Now, again, maybe this was Zelensky's play. Maybe Zelensky's play was alienate Trump, knowing that Trump doesn't like him very much, and then play up to the Europeans and get what you want from the Europeans. There's some problems with that, namely that the United States' materiel is way better than the Europeans' materiel. And the other problem, of course, is can you trust the Europeans, given the fact that the Europeans have a long history of being absolute suckers when it comes to being taken in by foreign dictators? I mean, it is worth noting at this point that during this war, during this actual honest-to-God war,

EU imports of Russian oil surpassed the financial aid they sent to Ukraine. So in other words, they paid the Russians more than they sent to the Ukrainians, which just shows you their levels of commitment. But perhaps reality is starting to set in for the Europeans. The Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, he said, of course, Europe should step up. It's bizarre for Europe to ask the United States to be the one that actually fills the gap. There's this paradox here.

Because, ladies and gentlemen, there's a paradox and someone has already overlooked it. Just listen to this. 500 million Europeans are asking 300 million Americans to defend them against 140 million Russians.

I want to repeat these words: If you know how to count, count on yourself. Start relying on yourself. Not in isolation, but with full awareness of your own potential. Europe, if there's something we lack today, it's not economic or demographic power, but the belief that we're truly a global force.

Now again, there's a reason why President Trump likes the Polish because again, they're saying the correct thing right here. Even the UK's Keir Starmer, of course, is a left-wing socialist type. He says we'll put boots on the ground and in the air to preserve any peace deal. Not every nation will feel able to contribute, but that can't mean that we sit back. Instead, those willing will intensify planning now with real urgency. The UK is prepared to back this.

With boots on the ground and planes in the air, together with others, Europe must do the heavy lifting. Okay, so again, Trump seems to be getting what he wants here. Europe steps up. They do the heavy lifting. Probably Zelensky has to come back and sign some sort of deal with the United States.

And the deal gets cut, in which case, good job. Everybody goes home happy. You know where your business would be without you. Imagine where it could go with more of you. Well, with Wix, you can create a website with more of your vision, your voice, your expertise. Wix gives you the freedom to truly own your brand and do it on your own with full customization and advanced AI tools that help turn your ideas into reality.

The reason there's a lot of heartburn that is happening around this meeting is not really to do with Ukraine. It really isn't to do with Ukraine. The question is whether there is a resetting of the world order that is happening right now. Now, a reset from the sort of bizarre vision of the Obama-Biden era would

would certainly be in order because the leading from behind, America should not actually engage in peace through strength. The United States should essentially allow America's enemies to walk all over America's friends and then every so often throw some half-hearted support to America's friends that we would bloviate on a sort of Wilsonian moral level without actually filling that gap. That is ending. And the era of sort of hard power is returning.

But the question really is whether the Trump administration, what the Trump doctrine is. Now, I've said before on this show, because President Trump told me on the show that the Trump doctrine is peace through strength, that America stronger in the world is better, that America with strong allies is, in fact, better. But there's an open question because it turns out that there are members of the Trump administration who don't necessarily believe all of that. So The Wall Street Journal has an editorial this morning

Saying, Okay, now that is the question.

That's the question. The question is whether he is interested in hammering traditional U.S. friends like Canada and Mexico in violation of his own USMCA trade deal or whether he is interested in sort of ceding control of Taiwan to China. He says Trump hasn't articulated this. This is the Wall Street Journal editorial board. Trump hasn't articulated this. Some of the intellectuals surrounding him have.

Elbridge Colby, nominated for the chief strategy post of the Pentagon, has argued the U.S. must leave Europe and the Middle East to their own devices to focus on the Asia-Pacific. But Colby has also said South Korea might have to fend for itself. And he said in a letter to us last year, quote, Taiwan isn't itself of existential importance to America. Mr. Vance is the most vigorous promoter of the abandoned Ukraine strategy, arguing the war with Russia is little more than an ethnic dispute. Ross Douthat of The New York Times.

who is sort of the clarifier for J.D. Vance, says the vice president and president are merely, quote, stripping away foreign policy illusions. So this is the question, right? The question is whether what we are looking at is America withdrawing from the world, ceding the Far East to China, allowing America's allies to basically run on their own in those areas. And if they get invaded or taken over, Taiwan, South Korea, well, that's their business.

Whether Eastern Europe will be left open to the predations of the Russians, whether the Middle East will basically be left up for grabs between Turkey, Iran, Saudi, the Israelis, and what that will look like. What does it look like in America withdrawing from the world? So that's sort of the open question after the Trump-Ukraine meeting. Is this symptomatic of a broader foreign policy shift away from America being the world's hegemonic leader and toward the idea that we're going to retreat from the world behind our oceans and then assume that everything will be okay?

Now, I don't know that that's the case. In fact, I think that's probably not the case because the truth is there are a lot of conflicting signals.

It seems to me that if you look at the Russia-Ukraine situation in isolation, what you are seeing is President Trump trying to get to a deal through any means that he can. I may not agree with the means, by the way. I may think that the best approach to Vladimir Putin is to say, listen, you can see we're making every possible signal. We're saying it openly. We want a deal. We want to get to a deal. That deal will keep you Donbass and Crimea. That deal will not allow you to invade the rest of Ukraine. That's the deal. And if we don't get that deal, then we're going to pour resources into Ukraine. We're going to hit you so hard. Because again, that is how Trump typically negotiates. It's kind of weird he's not doing that here.

Typically, the way that Trump negotiates is Colombia does something we don't like. We threaten to increase our tariffs on Colombia to 50% and the next day they cave. President Trump has no problem throwing his weight around. And the sort of strange notion that we have to throw our weight around with Ukraine predominantly and that Russia is actually the conciliatory party here. What are the signs of Russian conciliation? If we saw those, I might be on board with that. I'm waiting to see those still. It seems to me that what actually happened in terms of real politique

is that Russia now feels emboldened. If you're Vladimir Putin, don't you pour troops across that border as soon as possible? You now know that Zelensky and Trump don't get along, that the United States is not fond of Zelensky. They don't like how he's handling it, that the Europeans for all of their big talk aren't going to do much in the moment. Wouldn't you try to push as hard as you can? Because that is the Russian strategy is to push where there's mush.

I mean, the war may have been lengthened by this meeting, not shortened by this meeting. I don't know. We'll see how it works out. But the real question is overall American approach toward foreign policy. So I want to talk for a second about why, in general, America's involvement in the world matters for America. Here's some stuff that you're not going to hear me say. I'm not going to talk about democracy. I'm not going to talk about Wilsonian values. I'm not going to talk about the spreading of free speech and the blessings of liberty. All that stuff is super nice. It's great. If we can get it, terrific. But

That is not at the center of America's interest. You know what's at the center of America's interest? A thriving America. That's what the center of America's interest is. This is the difference between

Quote unquote neocons, people who in the 2000s were suggesting we needed to spread democracy all over the world and people who are real politic aficionados, people who let's be real after the Iraq war, everybody is now in the real policy category. There are very few Wilsonian thinkers who think that it's the job of the United States to spread democracy everywhere in the world. That's it. That rhetoric has been blown up. It's why it was so irritating when Joe Biden used to use it because it was stupid.

But let's be clear. America's national interest does, in fact, rely on a strong America abroad. Because here's the thing. With us being the world's hegemon comes enormous economic benefits to the American people. So, for example, if you think that we can continue to fund our unbelievably onerous welfare state via debt, if we are not the leading power on Earth, you got another thing coming. That is not the way this works. We sell our debt, trillions of dollars of debt every single year abroad.

The question is, why does the rest of the world buy American debt? And there are several reasons. One, they think that we'll repay them. And this has several elements. One, we are economically strong. Well, part of America's economic strength is not, in fact, autarky, overpriced products. One of America's economic strengths is that we are not a highly regulated society, unlike much of Europe. Our tax structure is better than that of Europe in many ways, particularly for business. We are more globally competitive.

Thank you.

foreign policy strength, which undergirds that economic strength. This is something people don't like to talk about, but the reality is that free trade, for example, isn't something that just randomly happens. It happens because the United States Navy is guarding all the shipping lanes on planet Earth. It is the United States that ensures the Straits of Malacca, where a huge percentage of world trade goes, is open. The reason that there are so many countries that are willing to buy our debt is because the United States is involved with those countries in ways that include security.

In fact, as we'll talk about in a moment, one of the reasons that the United States dollar is the world's global reserve currency is because of our foreign policy strength. And then finally, lack of viable alternatives, right? Because we occupy so much space on planet Earth. That means there is no alternative to investing in the United States. What are you going to invest in China? China is a debt driven society. You're going to go invest in the EU. The EU is the most non-innovative society in the developed world by far. Hey, second,

Why does the rest of the world buy American debt? Because they want fungible assets that translate into dollars. So, for example, foreign banks will buy American bonds. Why do they buy American bonds? That's debt. Because they can then easily exchange those bonds for dollars. And people need dollars because dollars are the world's reserve currency. What does that mean that dollars are the world's reserve currency? You hear that all the time. It's a huge thing that the dollar is the world's reserve currency. That means money.

An enormous percentage of trade all around the world, not involving the United States, happens via the dollar. So, for example, if, for example, the Indians want to trade with the Chinese, they both translate to dollars. They don't just go rupee to yuan. Instead, they both translate to dollars. It's true all over the world. If you want to trade a euro for a ruble for decades until the current sanctions, both the EU and

and Russia would translate that into dollars and then trade with each other using dollars. So banks around the world will exchange these foreign currency into dollars, and then they'll trade those dollars for other forms of dollars, other currency. So according to the Brookings Institute, 54% of all global trade invoices are done purely in dollars. And then even the ones that are not done in dollars,

The foreign exchange happens in dollars. 88% of all foreign exchange transactions happens in dollars. And there you are talking about tens of trillions of dollars every single year. And this has huge benefits for the United States because when people buy our debt, because they want access to the dollar, it funds our welfare state. Where do you think, who's paying for that? Ain't you, ain't taxpayers, it's debt. It injects capital into our markets. If there's lots of dollars wandering around abroad, those dollars have to go somewhere. And it turns out a lot of those dollars go into our capital markets, our stock market.

It also, because we have such enormous leverage in global markets, allows us to use economic weaponry like sanctions against Iran or to increase tariffs against our enemies. It gives us leverage in foreign policy. So what keeps the United States dollar as the world's reserve currency? Well, there are a few factors. One, stability of the currency, and that requires stability in the country. That means economic growth in the United States. Two, availability of the dollars.

If the United States is really stable, but we trade with a currency you can't get elsewhere, no one's going to use that as a reserve currency. So that means that trade, that means that global involvement matters an awful lot. Now, here's an example.

The reason the U.S. originally became the world's reserve currency is because in 1971, the U.S. ended something called the Bretton Woods Agreement. The Bretton Woods Agreement was an agreement that was signed in 1944, very end of World War II, in which the United States basically allowed, we pegged our currency to gold, to the price of gold, and then all other currency pegged themselves to the United States dollars. In 1950s and 1960s, the United States wildly overspent. We spent way too much money on our welfare programs, and we started to bankrupt ourselves.

So what happened is massive gold outflows. What people were doing is they were showing up at the central banks in the United States and they were saying, we want to trade our U.S. dollars for gold. And so Nixon said, we're not going to be dependent on gold anymore. We stopped pegging the U.S. dollar to gold. So that should have completely debased the dollar, right? Because now what is it pegged to? Well, instead, Nixon pegged it to the full faith and credit of the United States, right? Look at your dollar bill. That's essentially what it says.

So how did we ensure that people would trust the dollar? Well, one of the ways is we created something called the petrodollar system. So we went to Saudi Arabia, which is at the time with OPEC, the dominant oil trading firm on planet Earth. And we said that they should only use dollars for transactions involving oil. So if you wanted to buy oil from Saudi, you couldn't use a ruble. You couldn't use a yuan. You had to use a dollar. What did Saudi get in exchange?

We would provide military protection, economic aid, and security guarantees to Saudi. So again, foreign policy matters an awful lot for domestic economic policy, for how we spend, for the value of the dollar. What factors undermine the dollar as the world's reserve currency? Well, number one, foreign policy weakness. If we retreat, then it turns out people don't want dollars as much. They do not see us as a good bet. They also are going to move away from the dollar and start embracing more local forms of currency.

Every time we use economic weaponry, for example, its effects diminish. So this is why peace through strength matters. Peace through strength is a deterrent. You don't want to have to use economic or military weaponry. You spend on your military so no one wants to screw with you. And then you don't have to, for example, levy enormous sanctions on the Russians. If we had had a peace through strength policy before Russia invaded Ukraine, then Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine.

And then we wouldn't have had to put giant sanctions on them. And then the Russians wouldn't have moved into a full-on satrapy relationship with the Chinese. And then they wouldn't have moved away from the dollar, which has led to a broader de-dollarization. Other factors, domestic overspending. If we spend too much money on our welfare programs, this makes us way more dependent on foreign purchases of our debt. If we withdraw from world markets in trade, that makes dollars way less available. And if there is chaos in the markets in general...

If, for example, the free trade lanes start to break up, if the U.S. Navy retreats, there is now pressure for regional trading blocks to stop using the dollar as the reserve currency. So what would actually happen if we lose that status? Why is all this important to you? One, massive increase in borrowing costs. So the national debt, we can no longer pay that off. We can no longer sell more of it. That means radically increased taxes at home or radically increased inflation or both. Two, currency depreciation and inflation.

Because if less people are buying the dollar globally, the price of the dollar goes down. If there's less demand and the supply remains the same, the price of the dollar goes down. So that means all your prices go up. It means less foreign investment in U.S. financial markets. So your stock prices drop as well. The availability of capital to start businesses drops pretty dramatically as well. And of course, we lose our ability to use economics as leverage. I can no longer use sanctions because obviously if you're trying to cut somebody off from the use of the dollar and they're not using the dollar anymore, it don't matter.

So all this is materializing in real time. As the United States retreats from the world, as the United States loses its relative power, it's not absolute power, it's relative power. As that happens, things start to get worse. Here is a chart of the United States dollar as the world's reserve currency. And as you can see, it's from the IMF. As you can see, the U.S. dollar share of foreign reserves has dropped from somewhere around 72% in 2008

all the way down to if you're adjusting for interest rates and exchange rates, all the way down to about 56%. That is a massive decrease in the U.S. dollar as a share of foreign reserves. That is a problem. It's something that we should be looking to fix. The only way to fix that is with productivity at home, a strong and healthy market here at home, cuts to our national debt, cuts to our welfare state, and yes, a continued presence abroad that ensures a stable economy

world and global situation. Again, that is not for the good of other countries. That is for the good of you. That is the good for me. That is good for American citizens. At no point during this little disquisition have I mentioned the following words, democracy, liberalism, free speech, sexual orientation. I've not mentioned any of those things.

And when you're talking about clear, real policy interests, that is why it matters how the United States orients itself to the world. And if China goes after Taiwan or goes after the Taiwan Straits, that's going to have massive knock-on effects for American citizens, not just in terms of the semiconductors at TSMC, but in terms of the breakup of the global trade system, of the free market, of American power and its perception abroad. And yeah, that's going to cost you. It's going to cost all of us. It doesn't require an invasion of the United States. We have big oceans, thank God.

in order for the United States to suffer because the United States, it turns out that when you dismantle a global hegemon like the United States, that doesn't tend to be amazing for the global hegemon. Meanwhile, as it turns out, other things were happening on planet Earth that were not important at all. That would be the Oscars last night. So this may be the first you heard of the Oscars because no one watched any of the movies. We reviewed all of them on Friday, and it turns out the only two that did any box office at all

were Wicked and Dune Part 2, and neither one really did particularly well last night. The Oscars itself was semi-apolitical except for one bizarre statement in support of Hamas that happened when a documentary that was all about the evils of the Israelis, you know, like a year and not even a year and a half after the mass murder of Jews on October 7th and the continued holding of hostages in the Gaza Strip.

These schmucks got up, a person named Basil Adra, Rachel Jor, Hamdan Balal, and Yuval Abraham. It's not too hard, by the way, to find a left-wing Jew to join along with people who wish to slaughter Jews in order to rip on Israel. Actually, not all that difficult a task. So there's a movie, a documentary called No Other Land, which earned approximately 128th of Am I Racist? I believe, at the box office.

And these guys got up to talk about how Israel was the problem in the Middle East, you know, the week after Palestinians held a giant ceremony celebrating the strangulation murder of two toddlers before returning their dead bodies to the Israelis. But, you know, Hollywood's going to be Hollywood. About two months ago, I became a father and my hope to my daughter that she will not have to live the same life I'm living now. Always feeling, always...

Always fearing settlers' violence, home demolitions and forest-filled displacements that my community, Masaf Riata, is living and facing every day under the Israeli occupation. No other land reflects the harsh reality that we have been enduring for decades.

decades and still resist as we call on the world to take serious actions to stop the injustice and to stop the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people. The atrocious destruction of Gaza and its people which must end, the Israeli hostages brutally taken in the crime of October 7th which must be freed. When I look at Basel, I see my brother, but we are unequal.

We live in a regime where I am free under civilian law and Bassel is under military laws that destroy his life and he cannot control. There is a different path, a political solution without ethnic supremacy, with national rights for both of our people. And I have to say, as I am here, the foreign policy in this country is helping to block this path. And...

You know, these people are high on their own supply. Why? I don't need to listen to this schmuck anymore. Honest to God. Just disgusting. Truly disgusting. Get up there and stand for Hamas. Let's be real about this. The Palestinian Authority pays terrorists. That's what they literally do. Hamas is a dominant force inside the West Bank. Hamas continues to occupy the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians are by and large supportive of terrorism against Israelis in which to exterminate the state of Israel.

The reason that there is a quote unquote military occupation of these areas and not domestic home rule by the PA is because every time Israel attempts to withdraw from these areas, terrorists take them over and use them as bases for terrorist attacks. The reason for checkpoints is because of terrorist attacks.

The reason that Israel has to maintain a military presence in these areas and put its own people in harm's way is because of Palestinian terrorism and exterminationist hatred for Jews. So, yeah, for sure, you definitely should give a best documentary award to this sort of propaganda on behalf of

of terrorism in the year and a half after the worst terrorist attack on Jews since World War II. Just vile stuff, but you know, leave it to the Academy. Okay, meanwhile, there were some good things that happened during the show. I think the best moment came when Kieran Culkin was given an award for a movie called A Real Pain. He won Best Supporting Actor, and his speech was really, really charming. He basically suggested that he get his wife pregnant for the fourth time. It was very funny.

About a year ago I was on a stage like this and I very stupidly publicly said that I want a third kid from her because she said if I won the award I would... she would give me the kid. Turns out she said that because she didn't think I was gonna win. But... and people came up to her and were like, you know, really annoying her. I think it got to her. But anyway...

After the show, we're walking through a parking lot, she's holding the M, we were trying to find our car. Emily, you were there, so you're a witness. And she goes, "Oh God, I did say that. I guess I owe you a third kid." And I turned to her and I said, "Really? I want four." And she turned to me, I swear to God this happened, it was just over a year ago. She said, "I will give you four when you win an Oscar." I held my hand, she shook it, and I have not brought it up once until just now. You remember that, honey? You do? Okay. Then I just have this to say to you, Jazz. Love of my life, ye of little faith.

No pressure. I love you. I'm really sorry I did this again. And let's get cracking on those kids. What do you say?

That's great. That's charming and wonderful and hilarious and good for Kieran Culkin. Seriously, like the best thing I've seen at the Oscars in years is that particular moment. And then there are some low moments. Like, for example, every prostitute in America has to be thanked. So the movie that won Best Picture is Anora. Anora is the story of a sex worker, which means a prostitute, who cynically marries a half-moron, 18-year-old Russian oligarch son.

And then it turns out that the romance doesn't exactly work and she's sad. That's the whole movie. Hope you enjoyed it. Well, the guy who won Best Director and Best Picture for it was a guy named Sean Baker. And he felt the necessity to thank the prostitutes. Let's do it. I want to thank the sex worker community. They have shared their stories. They have shared their life experience with me over the years. My deepest respect. Thank you. I share this with you. Deep respect. Deep respect for people who sell their body for money.

The whole movie, by the way, is a repudiation of that. The reason she's sad at the end is because she has to go back to being a sex worker. And that sucks. It is amazing to me how people in Hollywood will make movies with very clear conservative messages at the end, and they don't even realize the movie they just made. Mikey Madison won Best Actress over, apparently, Demi Moore. So I guess that the plot of the Oscars was just the plot of The Substance.

where the young, better-looking young woman apparently wins the Oscar over the older woman. Whoops. Anyway, here is Mikey Madison also thanking the prostitutes of America. I also just want to again recognize and honor the sex worker community. I will... Yes.

I will continue to support and be an ally. All of the incredible people, the women that I've had the privilege of meeting from that community has been one of the highlights of this entire incredible experience.

It's true. There is no more incredible experience than hanging out with the prostitutes. Okay, also, Daryl Hannah showed up to show support for Ukraine. Now, I do find it hilarious that Hollywood has decided that this is the same Hollywood that will stand for Hamas, will also show support for Ukraine, which is interesting.

Um, I have a feeling it has less to do with their support of Ukraine than the fact that Trump does not sufficiently support Ukraine in their view. It's all oppositional. Here is Daryl Hannah doing her routine. Okay, well, you saved Ukraine. Great job. Also, Adrian Brody won Best Actor for, again, playing a veteran of the Holocaust. So he played a very similar part when he won for The Pianist, and now he won again for The Brutalist.

And I have to say, it is pretty incredible that he tried to call it antisemitism, but Hollywood is so perverse that he can't just call out antisemitism in a movie about antisemitism. He also has to call out racism and all the rest of it. Like in Hollywood, the way that it works is you can't say antisemitism without saying also racism, sexism, and homophobia. It's like a formula. And if you don't say the magical incantation, then they smite you. Here is Adrian Brody. I'm here once again to represent Hollywood

the lingering traumas and the repercussions of war and systematic oppression and of anti-Semitism and racism and of othering. And I believe that I pray for a healthier and a happier and a more inclusive world. And I believe if the past can teach us anything, it's a reminder to not let hate go unchecked.

And it's always the same crap from Hollywood. It can never be a specific malady. It always has to be racism, sexism, racism, bigotry, homophobia. And if you don't say them all at the same time, then obviously it's because you don't like black people enough or something like that. Speaking of black people, apparently we have to have a standing ovation anytime a black person wins any award for the first time. So we're getting low on the list. We've had a black president. We've had a black secretary of state. We've had a black vice president. We've had

Best actors who are black, best actresses who are black, best directors who are black. And so now we've reached the point where we need standing ovations for the first black man to win best costume design. When we get down to best key grip, and I guess we'll still be doing standing ovations for this as though black Americans could never win costume design until this very moment. Here we go. I'm the first black man to receive a costume design award. Huge. Broke that glass ceiling.

I'm so proud of them. That was the remaining glass ceiling, guys. We beat racism. Thank you everyone in the UK for all of your beautiful work. I could not have done this without you. Until this very moment, until this very moment, when a black man finally became the first black man to win best costume design, I thought that racism really was going to triumph in America. But now that Paul Tazewell has become the first black man to win best costume design, I got to say,

Man, I think we're there, guys. I think finally we're there. Okay, that was the whole Oscars, basically. Conan O'Brien was fine. He didn't do anything particularly shocking or wonderful. He wasn't as annoying as some of the other hosts. He wasn't Jimmy Kimmel or something. Maybe one of the best moments for Conan was joking with Adam Sandler, who showed up in shorts and a T-shirt, basically. For such a prestigious night, it's important that everyone is properly dressed, okay? You're dressed well.

Adam. Conan, what's up, my brother? What's going on, man? Adam, what are you wearing? What are you doing right now? I'm asking you what you're wearing. Nobody even thought about what I was wearing until you brought it up. You're dressed like a guy playing video poker at 2 a.m., Adam. You know what, Conan? I like the way I look. Because I'm a good person.

I don't care about what I wear or what I don't wear. Did my snazzy gym shorts and fluffy sweatshirt offend you so much that you had to mock me in front of my peers? Okay, I'm sorry. Okay, so some people like this. I've been reliably informed.

I've never been a fan of Adam Sandler so far. That is what it is. Well, that was your Oscars review. It was lackluster, as were virtually all the movies this year. Hopefully we'll do better next year. All right, guys, coming up, Andrew Klavan joins the show to analyze Inora, the film that won Best Picture at the Oscars last night, as well as some of the other pictures that were nominated first. However, you have to be a Daily Wire subscriber. If you're not a member, become a member, use code Shapiro, check out for two months free on all annual plans. Click that link in the description and join us.