Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
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This is a very special episode of Morbid that we have been lightly teasing for a few weeks. I'm sure everybody's like, what the fuck is going on? Lightly. Lightly. Today we have prolific songwriter and storyteller with 10 billion streams, which is astronomical.

five Grammy nominations, American Music Awards, iHeartRadio Music Awards, and a vast congregation of very devout fans. We have Tobias Forge from Ghost. Welcome to Morbid. Thank you so much. You're making me blush here. That's the plan right out the gate.

Thank you so much for talking to us. This is awesome. You've had, you just came off of really in the last few months, an epic tour, I would say is the least way we can describe it. It was basically two years. Yeah.

Yeah, I guess it's stretched over two years. I don't remember exactly, but something like that. Yeah, it's insane. You also just put out the highest grossing hard rock cinema event in North America. No big deal. Casual. Yeah, very casual. You've gone on kind of like a media sabbatical in between and you've written an entire album. And you also collaborated with Dark Horse Comics to expand the whole ghost lore with a four issue comic book arc, which is really cool.

Are you a vampire is our first question, or do you sleep? Considering the fatigue I feel, I'm apparently not. No, no. Let's put it this way. I mean, last year when I was...

working on on the record simultaneous with the film there were there were definitely moments where i felt like clear signs that big endeavors like that are better handled singularly i don't remember whatever you call it you do one thing at a time it's it's very hard to keep focus somehow i managed to do that but it's it was definitely hard you know the good thing about

The film was that a large part of it was based on footage that we'd already, you know, secured that that we'd already shot in in L.A. So that was, you know, a good lion's share of the content, if you will.

you know, sometimes with making records or making, making films, you just have to stay on script. You just, you know, just do what we decided. My problem is that I don't really, I don't really work like that. I'm, I'm, I'm sort of off the cuff, do improvising stuff. And so it, any project will demand a lot of my mental presence and acuity, which is fun when you've done it, but it can be really tiresome. And I've definitely sort of,

Not to be ageist here, but I'm sort of approaching that age when I start feeling a little bit of results when things get a little bit too much. That makes sense, yeah. But, you know, obviously it wasn't too much because I'm here now. Yeah, you're doing okay, I feel like.

It's working out. Yeah, you know. I feel that, though. I literally, if I do two book signings in like a week, I'm like toast for three weeks. So I have no idea how you did two full years of a tour and did all the things you did afterwards. I would be gone. Yeah, I don't know what to answer that. I mean, but it's also the good thing. This is the weird thing about my job compared to, you know, friends that I have that make films or whatever.

friends that I have have that are just writing songs all the time that might not have much of an artistic career, but more just like writing and is that they just go from one creative to another. And even though I'm, you know, constantly creating to a certain degree, I also flip flop between a creative period to a less creative period. That is the tour where you, you, you're, you're creative and,

in the beginning but it it is actually more of a dare i say more of like a normal job in the sense that you you show up in time and you do your job and then you're done yeah right the creative work is done in a sense job is like oh it never has to make the thing it's always what it's like the creative part is like i have to make this whole thing and then that's just like all right let's go through the but we got to do it now yeah that makes sense yeah

Well, before we get to, we're going to go fully into what is next for Ghost, what has happened. I had one quick little side quest I needed to take you on before we get into it. I don't know if you have heard, but they think that they have named Jack the Ripper. And I need to know if you think that they named Jack the Ripper. Tell me his name. So you have it. They think it's Aaron Kosminski. Okay. No. Okay.

I don't know if you've ever, because I know you're into the case. You've researched the case, obviously. Yes. Have you heard of the Catherine Eddowes shawl that they claim was at the crime scene? Yes. I know that there is a DNA...

question mark on that. Yeah. For some reason, it's been everywhere that they are 100% sure that this shawl has led to the identity and they think it's Aaron Kosminski. And the reason I bring this up is because a lot of our listeners, we did like a four episode, you know, deep dive into Jack the Ripper. And I think I did, it was like my, I couldn't stop researching it. So of course, I've been asked a million times what I think of this whole thing, if they've really named him. And it's

Not people asking me, but the fact that they're saying that this is 100% Jack the Ripper. But I needed to know if you had heard about it and if you were like, oh yeah, it's Aaron Kosminski or if you were like, no.

Alright, so I'm going to let Tobias finish in a second, I promise. But before I do that, I just need to let you guys know that we had very limited time with Tobias this time around. So I really wanted to make sure that you guys heard my feelings on Jack the Ripper and I didn't want to just like vomit them all over Tobias and use up all our time. So here's the thing.

I don't think they have found Jack the Ripper. Not one part of me thinks it, in fact. There's many reasons for that. The fact that this has been a thing that comes around every few years is a big red flag to me, and it's the same person bringing it around every few years and not really updating any of the actual info. That shawl that they're claiming they have this DNA from is a shawl that they're claiming was found at Catherine Edo's crime scene. One...

They have no way of knowing that. The only way of knowing that would be if it was among the exhaustive list of her items that were found on and around her at the crime scene that is well documented. And it is nowhere. There is nowhere that says there is like an eight foot long, really expensive shawl that might actually even be a table runner found on her person. Nowhere. So if we don't have that.

Then how do we know that this thing is hers and how do we know that it was found at the crime scene? Here's your answer. We don't. So there's a big, giant hole of doubt that has already been thrust through this entire thing. I don't think it was found at the crime scene. I think she would have sold it at one point. I don't think she would have held on to that kind of shawl. I mean, there's all kinds of stories of her selling, you know, shoes earlier in the day and selling anything that was on her. Yeah.

It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't buy that one at all. Furthermore, the story of this whole thing is that Sergeant Amos Simpson was the one who is said to have taken the shawl from the crime scene, a supposed blood-soaked shawl he took from the crime scene. One, that would have been an immense risk.

to do that. And two, I think we all need to remember what I said a thousand times during our Jack the Ripper series. We can't really comprehend how dark these crime scenes were. There was no light. We're going by candlelight. You're telling me that this man plucked a blood-soaked shawl from a crime scene and just brought it home for his wife? I don't buy that. Also, there's the fact that Amos Simpson was

was a Metro cop. He was a Metropolitan police officer. Mitre Square, where Catherine Eddowes was found, that is London PD jurisdiction. He has no business being there, and even if he is there, he has no business at that crime scene. So that gives me pause. The DNA.

The DNA, we don't even know what it is. It might be blood. It might be semen. They have no definitive answer for that. So that 100% match, I don't believe. They don't even know what the actual DNA source is for this. And also, there is no evidence of him leaving semen alive.

at scenes. Of course he can depart from his pattern. Of course that's happened before. I am fully willing to admit that and I'm willing to accept that if there's other pieces of evidence along with it. But the fact that he never did this and there was never evidence of any classic sexual assault or rape at any of these scenes, it was really violence and mutilation.

It doesn't really fit with the pattern. And once again, I'm willing to admit that a pattern can be broken if you give me other evidence to tell me that that's so. I just don't see it here. The DNA itself, it's mitochondrial DNA. That's what they're not telling you in any of these things.

This is not straight up DNA. This is mitochondrial DNA. It can eliminate a suspect, but it cannot identify a suspect. Absolute. Anyone in the maternal line of this DNA match can also be the person. This can be thousands of people. Thousands of people in London can match this DNA. So that's not good enough for me. That's not identifying. That is, you can eliminate. And also, just to put a pin on this,

The researcher who has put this forward is Russell Edwards. He doesn't have a track record that I'm willing to follow here, really. I will, of course, give benefit of the doubt if he can provide more evidence. But he also claimed once, and so did his team, that they found a victim of Ian Brady and Myra Henley that has been missing for decades and decades, Keith Bennett.

And his family has been looking for his body on those moors forever and hoping to find his body on those moors. And it was really fucked up that his team basically announced on social media that they had found Keith Bennett and they hadn't. So that upsets me. That makes me question it. Of course, one massive monumental mistake doesn't mean that you can never do anything good in your life.

So if he can provide more evidence that says this is a 100% DNA match, which I don't believe he can, then I'm willing to listen to it. But no, Aaron Kosminski is not Jack the Ripper. Mic drop! I am very interested in the subject and...

I definitely don't think it's Aaron Kuzminski. No. Okay, I'm glad you agree because it's been driving me insane. Yeah, Elena's been going down rabbit hole after rabbit hole. Every once in a while, I'll just yell out another thing that doesn't make sense about this, but everybody's running with it. But that is my official statement right here, and Tobias Forge agrees. It is not Aaron Kuzminski, everybody.

Well, yeah, I think I spoke about this last time as well, is that the problem with most of the names that's been thrown around is that what they all have in common is that they somehow have some exotic or weird treat that makes them...

eccentric or typically weird it's interesting how in this case especially now when we know so much more about serial killers i don't blame people back then to be sort of dumbfolded and sort of screwing up everything when it came to the to the investigation but it's interesting how we now

I have a tendency to believe that this case is so different from every other serial killer in the history of serial killers. We know now that serial killers are not necessarily an eccentric weirdo. They shit openly and have circus. We know that they are more likely to be perfectly...

functional family men. Yeah, they blend in. There's this very interesting reoccurring. It's sort of part of the mainframe of the story that if you believe in the limitation of the canonical five, that after Mary Kelly, no one can do that

that number on another person physically could subject someone to that ultraviolence without losing their minds. Yeah. That's like a very... Excited that. Like since when? That does that and way worse. And then they can sit and speak coherently. And go have dinner with their family. Pick their kids up from daycare.

It's really fascinating as a human social experiment talking and listening to theories about this because it's mired in such a mist that for some reason makes people sort of completely unrealistic.

But, you know, I'm also just an amateur. I don't know who did it. I can't present you with facts that that's the difference is you're saying I don't know who did it. I don't know who did it. Yeah.

It's the same. I don't either. I don't think any of us do. It's been very widely reported as like 100% we figured out who did it. Yeah, like fully fact. Like what? This is from the 1800s. It will serve me well if people think it's Aaron Kosminski for some time. Yeah. Continue thinking that. Okay, it's officially him. Yeah, okay. 100%. Tobias is going to come mic drop later. There you go.

There's so many little things about it, but I won't get into it because I could literally talk about this for like six hours and you don't have that. So let's take it back. We're going to talk about the Impera tour, which again, you toured for almost two years. It was seven legs. We were at a few of them. It was an amazing tour. Congrats on that success, by the way. And again, the stamina that it took to do that. Thank you so much. You're welcome. And it had, I feel like towards the end of that tour, everyone became kind of like,

in a flutter of like what's going to happen and like what's what's next. And it was like a very it had like its own like mythos. You could hear like people talking about it everywhere you went about it. So but luckily we didn't have to wait too long because you chronicled, like you said, the final two performances of the tour in the film right here, right now, which again, I just need to state it's the highest grossing hard rock cinema event in North America, which is a crazy title to hold.

But you ended that on the cliffhanger of all cliffhangers, like right before revealing Papa 5. One thing I have to ask you is I was in one of those audiences watching that film. And the first thing I heard very clearly when the credits rolled was someone behind me yell very lovingly, fuck you, Tobias Forge, like at the top of their lungs. So mad because they were like, what the fuck?

Did you feel audiences cursing you at the end of that? Like, did you know that people were going to be like, no. I went to the premiere here in London. I'm currently in London. So I was here for the premiere. So that was the first time I saw it with essentially a bunch of strangers. And there was this murmur.

No one like there was no cursing. But yeah, there was definitely a noise that signal. A grumble that went through. It's your gotcha moment. It is. It was such a good gotcha moment. It's your gotcha moment. Yeah. Yeah. It was like right up to it. And just like, oh, yeah. Close the door.

So in that film, there's like a lot of allusions to twins and a lot of implications that there's twins involved in some other capacity than what we've seen. Is there can you tell us anything about that or should we just like shut up and wait? No, it's easy. It's more fun if you as a fan, you get to follow the story the way that I've rolled it out with the comic and onward.

It's a boring way to explain it, but it's just better explained that way. I'm fascinated, not in like a Mengele sort of way about twins, but I think that there is this, I mean, obviously I do happen to have two children who are twins. Me too. But I think that there is this fascination with, especially when it comes to grown-up people who've been separated at birth for this, that, or the other reason.

Sometimes by accident, sometimes by choice, sometimes by, you know, force. More than often, it's been a result of, you know, girls who basically couldn't take care of their children and their

wasn't at that point maybe equipped or or had the ability to take care of children so they had no choice but to leave them up for adoption and and um you know there are cases where where uh they they have felt forced to give up one and um i've always been fascinated with

I don't know, the concept of family ties and bloodlines and all that. And I think that that comes not necessarily from the fact that I have twins myself, but it comes also from the fact I have several adopted siblings. And, you know, just a few years ago, I did what most people or a lot of people do nowadays. You do the ancestry and, you know, you check your DNA and then you get like a whole slew of people that you're...

related all over the world the place and you know dawned on me pretty quickly that if some of my siblings would do that their thing is completely different like yeah that they they belong to some other family with their own background and their own everything and um i i really wished that they did in a way but as far as i know they haven't because it's it's it's such a

trauma for them. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I can imagine. So when I say the word fascinating, it's not always like from a joyful, it's from a, it's really affecting stuff. And it really can do a number on someone when you learn something about your life. And especially if you feel

that something that you believe was true was all of a sudden not true. In my family case, they are very well aware that they are adopted. So that is not a thing. But I'm just saying that it never does it become more clear. One does the test and you can trace back and the other one to you is like,

Oh, that's cool. Look at that. That's a surprise. And that's like a relatively new thing too. So I feel like that's like a whole new generation of people experiencing that like very specific and very unique kind of trauma sometimes. Because we didn't always have these tests that we could just like send away for and get the results on your phone. So it's very interesting. It's an interesting concept and I

I think for the most part, it's a really good thing. I do believe that. Simply put, knowing your history, and I found it to be very humbling to be able to look at my family tree and seeing all these people. Obviously, most of them I couldn't see photos of or I could only see names, but

you know, watching generation of generation of people struggling and more than often, especially when you go back a hundred years and it was, it's common that you see, you know, mom and dad that gets like 12 kids out of six of them die. It's wild. Yeah.

like a year two years three years and that was just normal back then it was a completely normal thing for us it's like that's a cataclysmic event oh yeah you can't even i'm not saying that they weren't suffering but i'm just saying that it was like a completely different time and um they spent very probably spent very little time uh wallowing in

affairs and worldwide things that didn't bother that that wasn't directly affecting them and they just kept head straight and and they worked and and they made sure that the kids that survived survived and and um you know i i have a tremendous amount of respect what's the word humility yeah like all that work that was put in in order for me to sit here and

Talk shit. That's a good way to look at it, actually. Yeah. That's what they did it for. So we could sit here and talk shit. Yeah, you know. Well, getting away from the last tour and heading into the future a little bit, this album, I was lucky enough to listen to it. It's this new album is it's like a masterpiece. I'm obsessed with it. I love it. It might be. I think it's my favorite so far. It's really, really good. I love it.

can't get over it. I wanted to like scream it from the rooftops. I really can't. And I know you're probably like, oh, that's what you tell everyone. It's not. She doesn't. I really don't. I loved this one. I loved it immediately from the first note. And again, like this album feels, it's just got like a different feel to it and it feels more personal. Yeah.

and a little more like introspective. Like it just has a different vibe to it, a very good different vibe. Can you tell us a little bit about why, if I'm correct, why you might have went in that direction with this one? Yeah, I simply put the previous record especially was such a channeling of me deciphering external influence. And I felt that even though I mean, I'm super proud of Impair, I thought that that that

That was the record that I wanted to do at the time. Nothing wrong with that. But I felt not at all inspired to go back and make a, you know, a sequel to that, like an Impera 2. Even though, I mean, obviously there's plenty of fodder if you want to have like continue down that path. But I just felt that that's not inspiring. That's not, it doesn't,

That is simply not what I need. And and therefore, hence, I don't think that that's what my like people are interested in what I think feel or need either. I'd rather make a more introspective record that that deals with evergreen things.

feelings and basic human sentiments instill hope. It definitely comes across in this one. Like each one, I feel like it's kind of like a little mini movie that you can see in your head. And it feels like there's sentiments in each one that you can relate to on some level in some part of your life. You know what I mean? Like they all have that. That's why this one like struck me as so different. But it was different in the best kind of way.

I'm glad you say that. I, you know, at some point when you, when you, you, you, you, you sketch out this little idea that, oh, so this is a thematic concept and these are a few songs that I've been fiddling with. And it's, it, there's always this process when you're, when you're practically putting together a record and, and, you know, at the end of the day, I mean, regardless of, regardless of what message that you want to stay on point with,

You know, it still needs to be like a entertaining piece of work, a piece of art that, you know, with rhymes and new words. And so there's so many things.

hurdles to go from like a pure, pure intuitive idea to actually looking at like 42 minutes of qualitative entertainment. Yeah, that must I can't imagine that. Yeah, I mean, to boil it all down to that. Yeah.

And making it like palatable. Yeah, I mean, but that's what I do. I love that. But it's definitely like, it's always a challenge. Oh, I'm sure. Fun challenge, but it's always, especially when you're trying to do thematic things. That's why sometimes I'm also like using the theme as like, that's a loose direction that I've used as a more, originally most for myself in order to sort of stay on

on brand might be the wrong thing, but stay on point, stay focused. So I know where not to go. Stay the course. Yeah. Did you have a bit of a different process writing the songs this time around? No. No, same process? Same process. All right. I like that. It's simply because I don't really have one go-to process. So I was using the same process as Seas. I think that this was the first time, first record where I

worked with collaborators that I and I worked only with collaborators that I worked with quite a lot before I didn't have any new any new blood so we were we were working with with a certain amount of rapport and background which was very comforting um because you trust the other people you trust them you know that we're we're working towards uh the same goal and

everybody has you know the intent of making making everything as good as possible i know that no one who the hell would go into a production and with with the opposite you never know it's never no anymore definitely feel sometimes that someone is phoning it in and especially if it's like a big production with a lot of people and

Obviously, someone is there. Someone is there because they're getting paid. And they're functional too. So that's not a problem. But yeah, it was quite closely knit. And we were not like a big bunch of people working on this one. And as some of you fans might know, we, I...

basically have a little bit of a divide between how I make the records and then whom is performing on stage. And, you know, across my 15 years career as this band, I've experimented a little bit with that, but I've learned the hard way that if you're not going to use everyone,

it's better to use no one. If not everybody's being called in for their ability and their special gift,

Anybody who's excluded from that is going to they're going to take that the wrong way. It's not going to be great. Yeah. So it's just better. I've just found it more comforting and more more productive and nicer to everybody to just work with others. And then once we get the band together, you know, then we haven't nagged each other down and worn each other down throughout the process of making a record, which a lot of other bands do. Oh, sure. Yeah.

They have already been in the studio and, you know, killing each other for a year. Oh, yeah. I hear about that all the time. Some of the greatest bands like Fleetwood Mac wanted to kill each other half the time. Yeah. Making records, especially if you are collaborating, it's very I don't have a better word. It's an intimate process. I'm sure. You know, it's a very you have to you have to be very open and open.

And daring. Well, and it's kind of like you're letting your own personal journal, your own diary, you're giving it to a bunch of people to kind of help make into something that everyone's going to listen to. I can't imagine that. No, but it's pretty much what you do. Of course, when you've done it a couple of times, it's simply not a part of your... It's kind of like getting naked with someone you're together with. It's not a thing after a while that you're...

And once you've started writing with someone and it feels good, it does become more natural. You don't have that initial obstacle of having to put the shades down. Yeah.

Well, and we, the first single video for, that is coming out from this album is Satanized. And it, when this episode airs, it has come out already. That video is amazing. Loved that video. It is the first reveal of Papa Five, Papa Perpetua. And it's a phenomenal reveal at the end of the video. I think Ash actually filmed me watching it for the first time and I was like speechless. I couldn't even form words.

I have a couple of questions about that video. And again, if you can't answer, just say absolutely not. Is that you heavily, heavily made up as the priest? Yes. I knew it.

But the point is not that it's me. It's the point that it's a priest. Yes. I want people to focus on... It's a priest, yeah. I mean, of course, I understand that people will sort of notice. It's good. It's hard. Good prosthetics, but it's obviously not to the point where I'm completely beyond. But the song itself has a...

So this is how meta and weird Ghost is sometimes. Love that. The song is written in eye form, eye perspective. But on the record, Papa the Fifth Perpetua is singing, pretending to be another character. Oh, I think I'm right about my theory. Elena has quite a theory. And I think you just confirmed it. Because Papa the Fifth Perpetua is a singer in a band.

So as any other band who has songs that are written in I form can be about someone else. They're not always about their personal experience. Yeah, them personally. Oh, that's good to know. So in the video, a problem sort of arose because of this, because we needed...

My idea was for this love stricken monk to go through the hurdles of confusing his infatuation with being possessed. And of course, his surroundings within the monastery, of course, Dave, they confirm that the symptoms they're showing is clearly the sickness of being possessed by a demon. And the cure for this is, you know, an exorcism and repentance and all that.

So technically, you know, it was important that, okay, so I mean, obviously, I can't transform into Papa, that becomes really poor and bad. Yeah. So we needed to have a, another character coming in. So we had this, this, he's a Swedish actor. I don't know if anybody was so good. You guys, you recognize him?

He was familiar, but I couldn't... I didn't know if it was just because he has a very kind face. His name is... I hope I say this right internationally. Like, David Denchik. And he is... He's been in all kinds of stuff. Like, he was in a James Bond film. Oh, wow. He was in...

Lot of Swedish and Scandinavian films. I mean he he stars he's half I think he's half Danish or something Oh, okay. Oh, so he's in a lot of Danish films. Oh, that's cool Maybe it wasn't just his kind face really like he's a very talented actor. He's very well known in Sweden Denmark Scandinavia

hugely talented very very nice um lots of fun to work with so he really graced that video with this this uh this personality uh that i think was needed and which which sort of put me in a little bit of a uh you know being superfluous um which is fine i don't have to star or anything but somebody need to be the priest and uh it's always interesting to be

Plain asshole. That must be the most fun, I feel like. Absolutely. The villain is always the most fun. If I looked more like a stereotypical sort of strong...

angry man like you know with all those features you know how some men are just like badass I can't really play that you know what you're looking at right now is me sort of having spent some time being sick I'm glad you're feeling better by the way so I'm sort of in home mode in the sort of the hobo

Look, it's chic. But, you know, when I'm clean shaven and all, I can't really scare people. And sometimes as an actor, I mean, as to whatever extent I am an actor at some point, I would say so. You just have to live with the fact that you're you know what what your look is, is sort of got to work with it.

That's what you can play with. I had to screw him up with some sort of feature that gave him a little bit more of a character. I loved it. I'm so glad you confirmed it for me because it was driving me insane. I've been saying it in here. I'm like, am I just looking for things that aren't there? Or am I going crazy now?

But in that same video, because we've, you know, I had to analyze it a million times. Corinthians 619 flashes across the screen. It's in the little notebook.

It's definitely like right there. And in case anybody didn't, you know, immediately look up that verse in the Bible, I did not know what that verse was at first because I'm not super up on my biblical verses. Now, before this interview, I think I'm like an expert on the book of Revelations, by the way. I'm telling everybody stories. Elena's held her own Bible study now. I have. So I know all about it.

But Corinthians is basically touching upon like sexual immorality. It's when Paul went to the Corinthians and told them, you know, stop being so loose with your business. And the Corinthians were like, well, why does it matter? This body doesn't go with me when I leave. So like, it doesn't matter what I do with it. And he's like, no, it's a temple for God. And you're sullying it with your reckless, you know, sexy time.

So that's the story there in a very loose form, obviously not the word of God. And this seems to be a theme, obviously of the Satanized video for sure. Like we see the nun showing some clogged ankle for a minute, loved her. I thought she, her facial expressions are so good. And it's even, it's part of the video. It's part of everything for this. And

There's another song, I won't name it because it's obviously not out yet, that I listened to on the album that definitely had some like spiciness in it, I would say. So it had like a similar theme of this. But I wanted to know if that kind of theme plays like a bigger role at all in the thematic arch of the album as a whole, or if it's just kind of like just a part of something bigger. You mean Book of Revelations or the Corinthians? Corinthians, I would say.

Like that whole like sexual immorality thing. This is I mean, no, this was specific to this song. Okay. Just because it in that specific verse. I can't paraphrase it in English exactly what it says, but it but it's it's somewhere along the lines of keep your body clean because at the end of the day, you know, it belongs to God.

And in the context of the song and the meaning of the video, I think it's fairly poignant and on point to this misconception that anybody who's love stricken is somehow opening themselves up to

destroying their bond and their covenant with God. A higher being. Which is completely wild. Unfathomable. Truly. And what is, and again, you might not be able to answer this, but in the notebook, we were looking at what the things that were written in there, because they were funny in the music video. And there's something that's crossed out. Can you tell us what that said? Because I think next to it, it says like idiot.

I think the first thing that was crossed out was masturbate question mark. Yeah, that was definitely one. And obviously he didn't want to suggest that. And then it's, was it suicide? Oh, that's what it was. But he didn't want to like, no, that's not great. He didn't want to suggest that. Maybe he was starting going through the Bible verses there and he landed on

2 Corinthians and anybody who knows current history knows that 2 Corinthians does not exist. It's 2 Corinthians. But when you pose with the Bible and try to trick your followers that you have any clue what you're talking about and you say that wrong, it becomes kind of humoristic.

It does. So that was a little bit of a little nod and Easter egg there. A little wink. I like that. All right. I'm glad we know what that is now. It was driving us nuts. We're like, what does that say? It has an S in the beginning. So quick little like side question. Have you ever seen The Devils with Oliver Reed and Vanessa Redgrave? I don't.

I don't know off the top of my head. You should watch it. I believe that this is a quite old film, right? It is. And it was like banned. But I think like the W like Warner Brothers wouldn't release it again. So it's one of those things you have to go looking for. Yeah. Yeah. I am. I don't remember. I don't remember. I vaguely have it in the back of my head. I think I know which film it is.

Sometimes I do have a problem remembering or simply detecting which film someone is referring to because...

Even though in Sweden we don't dub films, we have other titles for the films. Oh, I didn't even think of that. Which is too much ridicule and the laughings of my band members, the band that I'm traveling with, because they have picked up on this little anomaly in Swedish cinema.

I kind of love that. So sometimes I get the question like, what's this called in Swedish? So like simple, simple old school things. It's like Jaws is called Highen. That means the shark. And, you know, towering inferno.

And that means the skyscraper is on fire. I'm obsessed. I love that one. That one's awesome. You know, over the course of touring and you sit in the bus and do exactly what we're talking about right now. Like we just like, have you seen this film? I'm like,

Maybe. No. Then I see, you know, a picture of it. Oh, yeah, of course. I've seen this. But, you know, I remember this film and then I have to tell them the title. And it's like, whoa. It's such a simplified, stupid. I love it. You know, the old one that's fairly known is that all Mel Brooks films in Swedish is called Springtime for. Huh. Springtime for. Springtime for Hitler.

Wow. And a lot of the Goldie Hawn films was the girl who

fell overboard. The girl who did military service. That's great. The girl who knew too much. I love that words are added into the title too. It's like overboard is not just overboard. It's like we have to explain it first. Yeah, all the National Lapoons, National Vacation or Christmas Vacation, all that. Yeah. All the ones that, all the Clark Griswold films. They're called A Pair for a Dad

A pear for a dad. It's päron till farsa. So that means like a pear as in the fruit. Oh, I thought you meant a pear. Yeah, a pear for a dad. Huh. Celebrating Christmas. All right. A pear for a dad on a European vacation.

You know? Why is there a pear? So when I say, if I ask anyone in Sweden, like, have you seen National Lampoon's European Vacation? They'd be like. They will most likely not know what I'm talking about. They're like, is that the one with the pear? With the pear you're talking about? That's the one with the pear. Yeah. That's amazing. I'm kind of obsessed with that. You're going to have to let us know if The Devil has a different, or The Devil's has a different name. It's the one written, produced, and directed by Ken Russell. Is it Criterion are the people who made it? Yes. I don't know why that just popped in my head.

Yeah. I'm going to check it. Vanessa Redgrave. Yeah. And Oliver Reed. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, this rings a bell. Because as soon as I watched the Satanize video, for some reason, that movie just kind of like popped in my head and I was like, huh.

I gotta ask. Oh, okay. Yeah. So moving away from the Satanize video, we have a couple of like kind of random questions for you. But last time you were on, we had a lot of random questions for you and people really liked hearing what you had to say about very random things.

So I'm sure you know this, that you grew up in Sweden. Is there any folklore or tales that you heard growing up that you think maybe shaped how you approach music or just creating cool shit?

I mean, obviously, my music for almost forever, I mean, as soon as I started writing songs, especially for bands and stuff, it was always driven by a certain level of supernatural presence, if you will, because, you know, I started writing songs for like, especially metal and death metal and stuff like that. So of course, there's this

supernatural horror element and then that that just sort of continued even through my sort of inter wall bands where it was still sort of darkish and now obviously it's influenced by that too or at least wrapped in a in some sort of wrapping that's supposed to be horror-esque so of course I

I think that Scandinavian folklore had, I don't know how it is nowadays because I'm obviously not a child now. And I do have children though. So I'm not sure if they, I'm not sure that they have sort of dealt with the same fairy tale, you know, murkiness that even when I was a kid and Scandinavian folklore is a lot about

Trolls and various creatures that live in the forest. Yeah. Where I grew up in Linköping, we had, I mean, anybody traveling to Linköping or anybody who's ever been there knows that there's a stream going through the city.

And it's like a built stream and it's in the form of sort of a city park, if you will. It's not just sort of licking between the houses. It's like a long, long park that goes through the town. And because it's part of a system called Yatakanal,

a channel. It's, it's adjoined to, to Yatakanam. It has these sluices and stuff. So you can actually take the boat. Oh, okay. On and travel. Oh, that's cool. And where I grew up and where my kindergarten was, it's still there. It's still a functioning kindergarten, like a,

daycare place. It was really nice because we had it, it was sitting right next to, very near the stream. So there was like a huge park, like a big park right next to where we were. And we had the sluice, you know, where old wooden boats would come and they would, you know, fill water up. But there was also like a waterfall there.

It's actually a pretty beautiful place. If anybody travels to Linköping at some point, go down to Hawaii. It's called Hawaii because it's like a little peninsula where me and my friends and everybody we knew would go with six packs and get fucked up. We all have that one place. Not when you were in kindergarten. It was later. Not when I was in kindergarten. But yeah.

Anyway, and there's this character in Swedish folklore called Nekken. And he is like a naked man sitting. That's scary. And by the water in a waterfall or where the water streams down downstream. And he'd sit there and play fiddle naked. And if you ever hear him, you will be enchanted by his playing and you will be

And he will lure you and he will drown you. Oh, that got dark so fast. At first I was like, all right, sounds cool. Like this guy. Yeah. And I was like, oh shit. I like the fiddle music. When I was little and you know, and we were down there playing, you couldn't help but to sort of think that

If there was such a thing as neck in, he would probably sit right over there. Sounds like it. Because that is a typical neck in place to sit. Yeah. Why not? If we know anything about neck in. Yeah. He's going to sit there. He's going to sit in that waterfall. That's great. So, Tobias, we told you at the beginning of the episode that we had a very special guest who wanted to come in and just congratulate you and say hey. So if you want, we can let them in now, if that's good. Of course. Who is it? Please.

I'm very nearly here. He's here. Welcome to the show, Doug Bradley. Hi, Toby. Hey, man. How are you? I'm very well. How are you? Good. I'm doing fine. Doing just fine. It's been a while. COVID kept getting in the way, huh? Yeah. Have we not seen each other since then? I think at the Peterson, they wouldn't let us backstage. And then I think the last one, you needed to kind of

voice preservation, energy preservation. Yeah, I remember that now. You didn't need annoying groupies. Exactly. And I might have been also disturbed by... Do you still have that insect infestation in Pittsburgh?

Oh, that was crazy. Which one? We had the stink bugs. Ugh. Then that was followed by the spotted lanternflies. Oh, even worse. That was what I was referring to. But conclusively, I just want to say we are coming to Pittsburgh. You are? Yeah, this summer. So I'm looking forward to see both of you then. Yeah, we already have our tickets. We will be there. Yay!

We'll all be there. We'll meet up some some bugless place. Congratulations on the movie. Thank you. Thank you so much. Which was terrific. And so the tour upcoming, you could lay claim to being the hardest working man in show business, I think. I think so. I try to put my miles. But it's I think it will be 10 years this year since we first saw you.

Is it? House of Blues, Dallas, I think, 2015, was it? Damn. 14. I'm losing count. Okay. 11 years. Look at that. Yeah. I bet they suck. I bet they're going to go. You just happened to step in on the one night when we didn't do that.

Elena, congratulations on the novel, which I read and enjoyed hugely. Thank you. With a plot twist for the ages, which I did not see coming. Thank you so much. I mean, it was literally a kind of, what? That was the plan, so I'm glad it worked. I haven't cleared the decks for the sequel yet. It's coming. The third one's coming, so get ready. Is that when you stop at a trilogy or do you just...

I'll keep going. Probably you'll get some more. I didn't congratulate you on anything, Ash, but... That's okay. I just exist. Congratulations for being wonderful. Oh, thank you. Back at you, Doug. Look at the love here. This was so amazing. And it was so amazing to have Doug come in as a surprise guest. We wanted to give you that at the end. I know. We thought it would be fun. We love Doug so much. Thank you for coming, Doug. We love Tobias. We love Doug. It's just all love here.

And just to wrap it up, the album comes out on April 25th. It's incredible. Everybody go get it because you won't be disappointed. The single for Satanized and the Sister Imperator comic are available now in this

episode comes out. You can access all the above plus some really sick merch on ghost-official.com and I encourage you to do it. Tobias, you're amazing. We're huge fans. We'll stick with you. Can't wait to see you on tour. We'll be at a couple of the dates. Looking forward to that. And thank you so much.

Thank you so much for coming on. We really, really appreciate it. Thank you. And we hope you guys keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. Bye. Can't find my go away button.

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