Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
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Hey weirdos, it's Ash here, ready to share a little secret. Have you heard of Wondery Plus? With ad-free episodes and one week early access, it's like having an all-access pass to our light-hearted nightmare. So come join us on the dark side and try Wondery Plus today. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a Morbid Network Podcast.

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Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. Hey. It's Morbid. It sounded like you said smorbid. Smorbid. Smorbid, bitch. You can have s'more of morbid. Funny. We've just been roasting each other all day. I love the ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I was like, ha ha, you're so funny. We have been roasting each other all day. The whole week, really. And it's not just me roasting Ash. Ash is roasting me back. Guys. Don't worry. Somebody come get her. She being mean. She being mean. Nothing has happened since the last time we recorded. Because the last time we recorded was yesterday. Was yesterday. Yeah. I'm trying to think. Did literally anything happen? What can we talk about, guys?

what do you guys want to talk about raise your hand if you have something for the class uh we're coming up on our 666th episode and it's going to be a listener tales episode yes which means we're going to dress up and boy do we have something so that's exciting i wanted all the uh good romance of my costume today fun me too and we got some good news yesterday for for the near future

Oh, yeah. Some good things. Not me being like, what? You're like, what's she talking about? I said, what did we learn yesterday? We learned some wonderful things. So there's, you know, I'm looking forward to that. Oh, we watched a very interesting movie on Scream. This is just a random thing to tell you guys, because in case you haven't listened to Scream, what are you doing over here? Ash picked it. So good. And I think it's worth...

I'm throwing it over here in case you haven't been listening to Scream. You should. It's fun. Go listen to Scream. What the hell are you doing? It's fun as hell. Caleb's a goddamn hoot. A hoot and a half even. He's a hoot and a half. A hoot and a half. And, you know, we take suggestions for movies and we also pick our own. It's a lot of fun over there. We don't take it too seriously. And neither will you. You will. Nobody will. But it's really fun. So go listen. But if you haven't yet and you're like, what are you talking about?

Ash, her pick for the movie last week was a movie called Hellbender. It was so fun. It is such a cool movie. I'm looking up the girl on TikTok who recommended it originally. Yeah.

It's Kate. It is Kate. Feral Pisces. Wow. Listening to you just remembering the TikTok name. Because I too follow Kate on TikTok. We love a Feral Pisces. So that's her TikTok handle is Feral Pisces. She's great to follow. Yeah. Because I was watching Yellow Jackets and then I follow Kate anyways. Yeah. Just our friend Kate. Just our friend. Hey, Kate. Anybody I follow on TikTok, I'm like, we're friends.

And she recommended it. She was like, it's very similar vibes. And it is. It's sort of similar. It's got folky horror vibes. That's the thing. I think it's got the DNA of that kind of vibe. Yes. It's a very unique story. Uh-huh. The people who make it are like a family. So they have a really unique story. And I think they're like the Addams Family, literally. Literally, yeah, they are. Their last name is Addams. And they're like...

They're really good. They are. At what they do. I think they do a great job, and I think they tell stories really differently in...

It's fun. There's another movie that they did. I can't remember. Where the Devil Roams, I think it's called. Yeah, I think it is Where the Devil Roams. That we're going to cover next week on Scream. I'm excited for that. Yeah, I'm very excited about it. So again, this is literally just us being like, hey, this is a cool thing that we've got to pass on to you. So if you're looking for like an interesting, really spooky, really cool movie. Like something you've never seen before. Yeah, that's just going to make you go, huh.

what the fuck afterwards but like in the best way hellbender it's really check it out it is a weird way beautifully shot beautifully shot and like weirdly a beautiful story it is yeah like not but yeah but yes but yes at the end so give it a shot i just thought that was like a fun little little thing yeah good call you guys you know we're always trying to tell you cool stuff i want to watch that movie again i do too it's great

But unfortunately, we have to talk about this shit stain. I know, but at least I feel he gets apprehended in this part. Yeah, he doesn't win in the end. So there's that. I did look up a couple things because I just needed to know for my own psyche last night. Well, you always have to see what they look like too. Yes, that was a trip. That is a trip if you look him up. He looks very normal.

when he's younger. When he's younger, yeah. You can see why people got into his car and landed him a hand. He came off almost clean cut. No, literally, yeah, he did. You know, like he very much was. It's actually interesting that they called him the hippie killer because he doesn't look like a hippie.

So he's called the hippie killer, I think not because he's the hippie in this scenario. For killing hippies? He was also, while he had some hippie ideals, he also had disdain for hippies. Oh, okay. So I think this is like a double-edged sword here. Interesting that he had disdain for hippies. Yeah. Because like everything that you've described about his personality so far, like as far as

you know, like new age thinking and psychedelics is pretty hippie coded. Yeah. He was very confused. Yes. I would say. Yeah. And what we'll see with Herbert Mullen too is he is mentally ill, obviously. Yes. But he is not insane.

He knows what he's doing. Yeah. And he knows what he's doing is wrong. Yeah. And we will see instances where he covers up things or make sure he takes bullet casings or stuff. He's very... He does not have diminished capacity in the sense that he doesn't know what he's doing is wrong. Yeah. So that you can hold on to that as like, fuck this guy. Yeah. But...

The last we talked about him, he had, you know, he had killed Mary Guilfoyle. He had killed Lawrence White. He had killed a literal priest in a confessional. Yep. And he is now wondering whether he is doing things correctly.

That's quite a time to ponder that. He's wondering if this is the mission he's supposed to be taking. And so he starts, and he's also thinking like, okay, I don't think I'm stopping an impending disaster from happening. So when we last left you, I said that he was also, the voices in his head that he said were in there included his father's voice at this point. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he was now considering whether he could find a more morally righteous way to continue this mission of his. You've already killed three people, so it's a little too late. There's no, like, turn back now. Well, and also, like, the mission is to sacrifice. So there's really no morally righteous way to do that. No, there's not. What he was thinking in January 1973 was that he could join the military.

So he tried to convince his father to allow him to join the military, and he submitted an application to the U.S. Marine Corps. Okay. In Martin Mullen's mind, which is his father, the Marines would give his son some stability, some direction, help him grow out of whatever phase he was in.

You know? It's not a phased dad. It's not a phased dad. But from Herbert Mullen's perspective, the military is kind of ideal for him because he could, one, make his father proud of him finally. And he could also continue what he saw as his important work, saving the world, because he would be in an environment where killing wasn't just permissible. It was kind of expected. Yeah. So...

He figured that was like the way to make this better. Okay. Now, having talked to so many doctors in the previous five years or so, he had become really good, and I mentioned this in part one, at like anticipating what people wanted to hear, you know? So like he could, he knew how to work the system. He knew how to get out of stuff. So the initial paperwork and interview phase flew right by. Like he killed it. Damn. But when it came to the criminal record and drug history part of it,

He couldn't talk his way out of that one. Yeah. Can't talk your way out of your own past. No. His criminal record showed several interactions with law enforcement, many of which ended with hospitalization. And he was still actively using drugs, which was going to show up on drug tests. It usually does. So in just a matter of weeks, his plan to turn his whole life around and manage his responsibilities, it all fell apart. But...

Although there was really only one person to blame for not being accepted into the military, he obviously wasn't going to blame himself. He wasn't going to accept his responsibility in this. So this just became yet another paranoid delusion that the world was against him.

You know, it wasn't his behavior that had caused him to be rejected. It was society's conspiracy to prevent him from the greatness that he was destined for. Totally. So he wasn't just disappointed with this. He was pissed. That's not great. Now, in Herbert Mullen's mind, it wasn't just the universe that was conspiring against him, but it was the drugs.

The drugs were conspiring against him? Well, they had clouded his mind for years and he blamed marijuana worst of all, which is wild work. That's truly wild work. Out of all the ones he's doing to blame the pot. I'm like, bro, you were doing LSD. Yeah. And even still, like that probably fucked you up, but it wasn't totally all of the drugs fault. No, no.

In his, like, wildly warped logic, he reasoned that smoking pot was what led him to make his bad choices.

Yeah, it was the pot that was responsible for his bad relationship with his parents. And most importantly, it was what led to so many hospitalizations. It was totally that. Just the pot. Just that. Okay. So, but again, like his rejection from the military, he couldn't take responsibility for his drug use over the years. It wasn't him who had decided to do this. Instead, he was like, I'm going to place the blame on the person who started me down this road in the first place.

So a little before 9 a.m. on the morning of January 25th, Kathy Francis was just barely awake, just starting her day when she heard not a knocking on her door, but like a tapping. Oh, I hate that. A very light tapping. And she wasn't expecting anyone. It was the morning. So she was like, excuse me, what? That's fucking sinister. She was not happy. So she opened the door and she found a slightly disheveled Herbert Mullen standing in front of her. She kind of knew him.

Like she barely knew him, but she just kind of recognized him by sight, essentially. So she tried to be a little polite because like she was kind of like, I think I know you. Yeah. He had actually come looking for Jim Giannara, who was the former occupant of this house and the guy who had first given Herbert Mullen his first joint back in high school. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Yep. How old is he at this point?

It's like in his early 20s. Yeah, early 20s. I couldn't fucking tell you. Early, like mid-20s, I would say. I have no idea who gave me my first joint. And also, what? It's not that guy's fault. It's not that. You took the joint. You smoked it. And that's not even the fucking problem here. That's not even the issue. Yeah.

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Well, Kathy explained that Jim hadn't lived in the house for a few months and then gave him directions to Jim's new house because he thought he was a friend. Yeah, of course. Like Kathy. She didn't do anything wrong. Kathy knew who he was like a little bit. So like a complete stranger. Yeah. And like she was like, oh, you're looking for your friend. He kind of made it seem like I'm looking for a friend. Yeah. Like, OK. And she was like, oh, it's like a few blocks away. He lives in a different house and then just closed the door and went back to bed.

Now Herbert Mullen got back in his car and drove the seven miles to Jim and Joan Gianera's house on Western Drive. Jim and Joan Gianera. I'm obsessed. Yeah. This couple had bought the house sometime earlier and had finally finished renovations and were able to move in a few months earlier. Unfortunately, since then, Jim had struggled to find work and they'd run out of money. Oh, no. So that January, they'd been living without electricity. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, like Kathy Francis, Jim hadn't been expecting anyone that morning. So the knock on the door was a little bit of a surprise. It had been a while since the two of them had seen each other. They went to high school together. But Jim recognized Herbert Mullen immediately, but didn't invite him inside. And out of nowhere, Herbert just said, I'm really pissed about the time I've been wasting. And Jim was like, sorry, sorry about that. Like, I

Okay. Like he was just confused. Like what? And before Jim could say anything back to him, because what the fuck else? What was he going to say? The phone rang. And so he's like, excuse me, I just have to answer the phone really quick. Yeah. And he went in to answer the phone and Herbert walked in the door and closed it behind him.

Now, Jim hung up the phone and turned around and was like, what the fuck are you doing in my house? I didn't invite you in. Yeah, you can't just walk in here, dude. And he was about to yell at him to leave. And then he noticed the revolver in Herbert Mullen's hand and he turned to run. And from behind, Jim heard a crack and a bullet grazed his right arm. Oh, man. He made it to the kitchen and he flung the refrigerator door open, hoping to shield himself. But another bullet struck him in the left elbow, shattering the bone. Oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah.

So he grasped at the counter for a knife or anything he could use to defend himself, but he didn't find anything. And instead he just charged at Herb, who simply sidestepped and then turned and shot Jim again, this time hitting him in the back. And the bullet this time tore through his lung and sent him crashing into the stairs. Oh my God. So Jim struggles and gets himself up. Now his lung has been like shot, like a bullet went through his lung.

He gets himself up the stairs in order to warn his wife. Oh. He heard the crack of the gun again as he's trying to get up the stairs, and the bullet struck the door jamb above the door and, like, exploded the wood. Now, Joan had been showering when Herb arrived, and the noise of the water blocked out all the chaos downstairs. Oh, wow. She didn't hear a lot of it. So when she opened the door and stepped into the hallway in a towel...

She was shocked to see her husband now stumbling towards her. Bleeding. Blood was pouring from his left side and streaming out of his mouth. Oh, my God. He managed to shove Joan back into the bathroom and slammed the door and yelled at her to lock the door. As he's bleeding to death. Yeah. And he, like...

shoved his wife into the bathroom to like protect her. Oh my God. And from inside the bathroom, Joan heard the gunfire two more times. One bullet hit Jim in the stomach and the second went through his back and struck his heart and killed him. Oh my God. And she's just standing in the bathroom having no idea what the fuck is going on. No idea who this man is.

Now from inside the bathroom, so Herb could hear Joan hysterically sobbing from inside the bathroom. Oh my God. And so he just broke down the door with his hands and feet, just kicked open the door. Oh, this is like a nightmare. Yeah. Once inside, he aimed the gun at Joan and fired three times quickly.

hitting her twice in the neck and once in the face just above her left eye. Oh, my God. He was never fully confident that a gun was sufficient for the purpose of sacrifice, so he decided to take out his hunting knife that he had with him, too, and stabbed Joan in the back three times, once for each bullet. But didn't do that to the husband? No. What? He then collected the shell cases from the bathroom floor. So he knows what he's done is wrong. Yep.

and from the hallway and then proceeded downstairs to collect the rest of them and he stuck the gun back into his waistband and then he noticed that a button from his coat was missing but he was like yeah whatever and he just left the house good now back at the francis house remember kathy who originally opened the door i would like to give a quick trigger warning uh this part is very upsetting oh no um back at the francis house her two children had woken up

And Kathy was doing her best to get nine-year-old David and four-year-old Damon ready for the day. Nine-year-old Damon had had a cold the last few days and he looked like he was going to be staying home from school one more day. So she went out into the yard and found some kindling to get the fire started in the stove. She just put down some breakfast for the boys when she heard a knock at the front door.

When she opened it, she was looking down the barrel of Herbert Mullen's gun. Oh my god. Kathy didn't even have time to say a word before Herb fired the gun and hit her straight in the head. Killed her immediately. He stepped over her and he entered and closed the door behind him and he thought he was going to find a husband or a boyfriend in the house and he realized that he heard voices but they were children's voices. So...

Just to be clear, remember before he was saying that he was considering like how morally wrong this felt and he wanted to find a morally righteous way of doing this. I don't know what happened here. He didn't stop to think about, you know, the moral implications of killing children here.

Because he simply raised the gun and fired twice and hit both of them in the head, killing them instantly. Oh my god. Then he walked around and stabbed each of them with the hunting knife to make sure that he had properly sacrificed them. And he also has, like, no matter what, this is so fucked, but he has no idea who this even is. No. So that's not, it's still not fitting the narrative that he's trying to, like, create. Yeah. What? Mm-hmm.

A nine-year-old and a four-year-old. And a four-year-old. And their mother. And a nine-year-old. Oh, my God. Yeah. Now, unlike the three previous victims who had yet to be linked, investigators immediately suspected the Gianneras and the Francis's had been killed by the same person because there was a personal connection between the victims and similar circumstances under which they had been killed. Yeah.

Right. Right.

was unaccounted for and hadn't been seen in at least two days. Okay. In a press release the following day, Sheriff Doug James stated, there appear to be drug overtones in the case. And when they did finally locate Robert Francis, he was ruled out immediately as a suspect. Yeah. Now, not wanting to cause panic, Santa Cruz Police Captain Dick Overton urged residents to, quote unquote, keep cool. Stay cool, man. Just stay cool. Don't be all like uncool.

And he said, just go about your daily lives as normal. Keep cool. Two families have been slaughtered, but like, keep it chill, man. And also he said, this is not a case of somebody running amok and shooting people. That's actually exactly what this is. This thing has a pattern to it. It's not a case of some crazy man running around shooting people. No, that's literally exactly what it is, sir. And what basis do you have to state otherwise? What are you talking about?

So since the murders of the Ota family two years earlier, we talked about them in part one. Yeah. And the recent disappearances of a local, a number of local college girls. Thanks to Ed Kemper. Santa Cruz residents had started arming themselves. I would. Which over to new increased the potential for an accidental shooting to happen. But.

While his desire to avoid, you know, like panicking the public and having some accidents happen that could have some real consequences, he was very wrong. Because this was one of the rare incidences of someone, quote, running amok and shooting people at random. This literally was. Now, the more time that passed, the more...

kind of like adept Herbert got at justifying his murders. He was able to convince himself that it, which shows you also that he was doing some real mental gymnastics here to make it. Yeah.

And investigators shot and killed two kids. There's what are you doing? Exactly. And investigators ability inability to connect the crimes only served as further evidence of his divine purpose in his mind. He's not getting caught. Exactly. By February, he had stopped taking drugs altogether and replaced his drug use with long hikes in the mountains around Santa Cruz, which my goodness, I wish you had done that your whole life. Yeah, just do that instead. Yeah.

Literally take a hike. Yeah, take a hike. Now, on the morning of February 10th, he went out for a hike in Henry Cowell State Park just off Highway 9, not far from where Lawrence White's body was discovered. And these hikes, he said, gave him time away from his parents, you know, gave him peace, gave him a little quiet, made his head feel clear. Why the fuck were you doing this forever? So...

He loved these. Like, this was his moment of, like, peace. Yeah. So he was very irritated when he came across four teenagers camping in the woods that morning. Oh, how dare they? Yeah, how dare they do a thing they're allowed to do. In nature. Like what? Yeah. The teens, 18-year-old David Olicker, 18-year-old Robert Spector, 19-year-old Brian Scott Card, and 15-year-old Mark...

I believe is how you say it, had come to the area a few days earlier and they'd been living at like, like they'd made themselves like a little lean to. Oh, okay. And when he came upon them that morning, he was absolutely disgusted because he saw a bunch of trash around the large tent and he intended to speak to them about it. So his initial thought was not to immediately kill them. Yeah. Which is also interesting. Or so he says, right? And well, he doesn't.

Oh, initially. Like that's this isn't the first thing he does. OK. So he stands outside the tent and he coughs loudly to get their attention. And so they all made their way out of the tent and he tells them you're on public property and it's illegal to camp here and you're polluting the woods with your garbage. OK. Pick it up. So they are teenage boys. So they mocked him.

which only made Herb angrier with them. So he told them he was a park ranger and he was giving them until the next day to clear out the area or they'd be arrested. Okay. Which is so weird. Yeah, that is weird. You know, so he left the area and he continues his hike, but he just couldn't get this interaction out of his mind. If there's anything I've learned so far this year, it's that small habits make a huge difference.

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From afar. Because it feels like he had like a moment of clarity of just being like a curmudgeon there. Yeah. And just being like, where, where, where? Like, you dumb kids. What are you doing? Yeah, do-gooder. And he was leaving. And then as he's leaving, it's like the, it clouded again. And it's like that rain cloud set upon his brain and was like, no, no, no. Like, you need to be rational here and be rational.

So it's very interesting to see how this all played out. Yeah. It's like he, it's like an urge that he just can't fight against. Yeah. It's very strange.

So he can't stop thinking about it. You know, in his head, here he is doing everything he can to protect the world from this impending natural disaster. And these teens are just throwing garbage all over the place and then mocking him when he shares his concerns about the environment. What the fuck? Yeah. Under a normal circumstance, you would be like, yeah, that does suck. Mm-hmm. Under normal circumstances. If he was like a regular Joe, you know, you'd just be like, wow. You'd be like, damn, what a shitty day. Yeah, you'd be like, man.

man like wow but him you're like fuck you yeah dude yep um so at first it occurred to herb that he could just go back to the campsite and kill them all and then he was like you know what i can't do that because this would be a personal grievance and not keeping with my mission wasn't the last murder a personal grievance thank you you're welcome because jim

was the first person to give him a joint, which he considered the beginning of all this. Which is a personal grievance by definition. Yeah, like that's not part of your mission. Maybe he was feeling some type of way about that? Yeah, I think he's just a lying sack of shit. And I think that he, by his own admission, he knows how to convince people.

Of certain things. Ah. Knows how to convince people that he's okay to be let out of a hospital. Well, and remember. Knows how to convince people to let him in the military. He was really smart. He's very smart. Like excelled in school. Yes. One of the top students. Great athlete. And he's very manipulative. Yeah. He admitted it himself. That's how he got out of the hospital. Like hospitalizations every time. Multiple. Yeah. So this to me feels like.

Him later being like, oh, well, this is why I didn't do it to make it seem like I'm still under that fog of like I have a personal mission, like trying to make sure he stays in that narrative. Yeah. But he forgot that he had fucked it up already. Right. I think this is one of those like, oops. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah.

Because that makes no sense. No, it doesn't. So over the course of the afternoon, he kept obsessing over this interaction, slowly convincing himself, of course, that while he had, you know, it had been a bad interaction with him, with these kids, the fact remained that they were polluting the planet. So sacrificing them to him felt like it made sense. He eventually convinced himself that this was okay.

Okay. So later that night, he came back under the cover of darkness, came back into the park. Damn. He hiked back out to the campsite and approached it. He wanted to catch them off guard. This is so scary. Yeah. Because they probably thought nothing else after he left. They forgot about him completely, I bet. Like that just wasn't even a blip on their radar. Right.

But the fire was still burning when he found the camp. And inside the tent, he could hear them chatting and laughing with each other. So armed with a .22 caliber pistol, he approached the tent and started unfastening the snaps that held the flaps closed. Oh, my God. He startled them, obviously. And as soon as the tent opened, none of them had a chance to say a word because he just started firing.

And all six shots hit their intended targets. Each of them got hit in the head. They all crumpled to the ground in a literal pile of bloody bodies. Oh, that's awful. And they're all, these are young kids. Oh, yeah. They're teenagers. And it's like they're in a pile now in this tent with down feathers everywhere because he shot through pillows. Right. Tattered sleeping bags. Like what an awful scene. Yeah.

So after shooting the boys, he went through their pockets and took whatever money they had on them. It's weird because I thought this was just for like, you know. A mission. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What did that do? I thought this was all for like higher moral purposes. And then he just tossed their wallets on the ground and left. And oh, he also grabbed a rifle that he found in the corner of the tent because he said they didn't need it anymore. Oh, wow. This guy's a grade A douchebag. Yeah.

So since he began his project of, you know, saving mankind in November, he had killed 12 innocent people. Wow. Very innocent people.

Chosen mostly at random. Yeah. Since then, his mental health had deteriorated considerably. And it seemed like no matter what he did, the voices in his head were there, just demanding more. Supposedly. Just three days after killing the boys in Henry Cowell State Park, he was out for a drive in Santa Cruz when the voice came into his thoughts again, demanding another sacrifice. This is according to Herbert Mullen, by the way. Can we go back for a second? He pick up the trash? Yeah.

That's a great question. What about all those down feathers? Are those good for the cuponers? Yeah, that's polluting the environment. What about all the trash you were so upset about? And you just left the tent. That's not biodegradable. So fuck you. None of this is for what you're saying it's for. It's ridiculous. Sorry, go ahead. No, don't worry. I'm glad you said it.

But so he's driving through Santa Cruz. He hears the voice saying, you need to make another sacrifice. And at first he said he thought about resisting. But instead, he just pulled a U-turn and headed back into a quiet neighborhood that he'd just driven through. As Herb drove slowly down the street, he spotted 72-year-old Fred Perez. Are you kidding me? Just standing on the sidewalk.

Stop it. Nice. Aww.

It's not known what Fred was actually doing that afternoon. He was just hanging out on the sidewalk. Yeah. But it's likely he didn't even notice the Chevy car, like, slow to a stop nearby, and he definitely didn't notice the driver aim the .22 caliber rifle in his direction. So he hit Fred Perez directly in the heart with a shot and killed him instantly on the sidewalk in his own neighborhood. And this man is just in his own neighborhood living his life. And he did everything...

He had a successful career. He provided for his family. Just trying to enjoy his retirement now. He passed his... And then he went into another business to provide even more for his family and then passed that business on to his kids. And he's just retired and just living that. But this is totally about sacrifices. But this is definitely about that.

Now, and so he was killed instantly on the sidewalk. Herb, having done his what he considered his duty, put it, you know, the safety back on the rifle, put it back in the trunk and left the scene calmly, drove away. Insane. So Fred Perez likely never saw his killer.

but someone else did. That afternoon, Fred's neighbors had been out in their garden and they saw Herbert Mullen drive by. You don't fuck with a quiet neighborhood. No, you don't. We got neighborhood watch going on. Fuck yeah. I love my badass neighborhood. I pull in my own neighborhood and I see people looking out their windows. Hell yeah. So his neighbors watched the U-turn happen. They watched him slow to a stop a few yards from Perez and they watched in horror as he was shot.

They also managed to write down his license plate number before he'd gotten too far down the street and immediately ran inside and called the police. That is a real one. Now, as luck would have it, the first officer to hear the report of the shooting go out over the radio was a patrol officer who was in the neighborhood where Perez lived. Oh, wow. And within a minute of the shooting, Herbert Mullen was pulled over on the side of the road. Wow. Within a minute. One minute. Yep.

When the officer approached the driver's window, he noted the man behind the wheel matched the description of the man who'd fled the scene of the Perez shooting. And he noted the .22 caliber pistol laying on the passenger seat. Yeah. In the days that followed, that pistol would be a match for the slugs found in nine murder victims. But for the time being, the officer placed him under arrest for the murder of Fred Perez, effectively ending Herbert Mullen's five-month murder spree and

That ended the lives of 13 people. It's crazy all that happened in five months. Yeah. Now, when he was arrested on February 13th, 1972, the bodies of Mary Guilfoyle, David Olicher, Robert Spector, Brian Scott Card, and Mark Drabelbis had not been discovered yet. Oh, wow.

But Santa Cruz police were still able to hold him for the murder of Fred Perez while they were still investigating. In their interviews with those who knew Herbert Mullen, police learned very little about his background and any potential motive for these murders. The owner of the Pacific View Motel, where Herb had been staying for the last few days, described him as an ordinary guy. He said he was real quiet. We never saw him except when he came by the office to get his mail.

And a former classmate was equally shocked by this whole thing and told reporters that Herbert Mullen was extremely bright and very popular in high school. He said, Herb always seemed to be uptight, but he was popular.

Which is so wild. That is really wild. While reporters just went ham trying to get information about the accused killer, detectives were busy linking the gun back to the Francis and Giannara murders. On the afternoon of February 15th, he was brought before a municipal court judge and arraigned for the murders of Fred Perez, Jim and Joan Giannara, and Kathy David and Damon Francis. Which kills me.

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The next day, fingerprints found in the confessional at St. Mary's Church were determined to be a match for Herbert Mullen. Wow. And he was charged with the murder of Father Henry Tomei. What a way to find that. That's great. Yeah.

The arrest of Herbert Mullen came as a big relief to the residents of Santa Cruz. Unfortunately, they did not know at the time that there was definitely another killer on the loose. Yeah. They had not got Edmund Kemper at that point. But the motive for the murders was still a mystery. Nobody could understand this was so random. Right. And Herbert Mullen wasn't talking.

So Peter Chang, who was the district attorney at the time, told reporters the motive for these slayings is not clearly defined. But it appears that each of these people was an acquaintance of the suspect at some time during troublesome phases of his life. Not all of them at all. Yeah. So it's like the logic. Actually like two.

The logic, I guess, like, you want, I don't know, it doesn't make any sense. It seems like they were just trying to make people feel better. I think it made sense. About random crime? Yeah, it made sense in the killings of, you know, the Gianeras and the Francis's. Yeah. Because he did have an acquaintance there. But it didn't explain the murder of Fred Perez or Father Tomei or Mary Guilfoyle or Lawrence White. Right.

Or the boys in the woods. Like it didn't, none of those made sense. Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah. According to Santa Cruz Sheriff's detective, Ken Pittinger, who spoke with Herbert Mullen's family and former friends, Herbert, quote, freaked out on acid during a visit to San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury district two years after his high school graduation in 1965, which apparently could have accounted for his random and extremely violent behavior.

I'm going to go with no. I'm like, I know that. It didn't help. No, it didn't help. But there was definitely other stuff here. Yeah, that's not that like. Yeah. Everybody knows a lot of people who have had a bad trip. Yeah. You can't account a murder spree to a bad trip. You can't blame it on that. No. No. So the picture became even more opaque a few days later when the bodies of the four teenagers were discovered by Brian Scott Card's brother, Jeffrey, in the woods. Oh, God.

He had not seen or heard from the group in two weeks, so Jeffrey Card hitchhiked from Los Angeles to Santa Cruz to the campsite, where he found his brother and three friends dead in the tent. Oh, it's awful that he had to be the one to find that. There was no evidence found at the scene to link Mullen to the killings, but investigators suspected he might be the one responsible anyways.

And the body of Mary Guilfoyle had been discovered in the mountains a few days earlier. Oh, God. Which must have been horrific. Yeah. And Herb was suspected in that killing as well. And in a statement to the press, Chang referred to the murders as a, quote, psychopathic type of killing. And the link to Herbert Mullen was entirely speculative at this point. Okay. Because it was. They didn't have any evidence. Within a few days of finding the teenagers in the woods...

The murders of all four boys were linked back to Herbert Mullen through the .22 caliber revolver used in the other killings, and four more counts of murder were added to him. Additionally, the rifle used in the murder of Fred Perez was soon traced back to the teenagers because, remember, he took it from their tent. He stole that, yep. Which only strengthened the case against Mullen in the murders of David Oeliker, Robert Spector, Brian Scott Card, and Mark Drabelbis.

Now, after a brief delay, Herbert Mullen finally appeared in court in mid-June, and he entered a plea of innocent by reason of insanity. That plea obviously required the trial to go in two phases, one to hear evidence of diminished capacity, the second to determine guilt. By the time the case went to trial in early August, Herbert Mullen had been linked to the murders of Lawrence White and Mary Guilfoyle, bringing his victim count to 13, though he had only been charged with 10 murders at trial. Mm-hmm.

Now, at trial, one of Herb's evaluating psychiatrists, Dr. Charles Morris, laid out his motives based on what Mullen had told him during their consultations. He said, I think he premeditated, considered it, and went ahead and did it. Dr. Morris explained that Herb had sought revenge against Jim Gianera for, quote, leading him down the garden path to drug use.

And he had killed the Francis family to get rid of any witnesses. Because he had already knocked on that door. Which means. That tells you what, that he knew what he was doing. He knew that was wrong. And he tried to cover it up. Yep. As for the boys in the woods, Morris claimed Herb, quote, had a thing out for hippies. And since these people were hippies, it was a good time to do away with them. I feel like it's not even like a thing for hippies. He was just pissed about the trash. Yeah.

I think he just wanted to. Yeah. Basically, Dr. Morris didn't believe that Herb was criminally insane at the time of the murders. Agreed. Rather, he had been under considerable emotional strain and ultimately killed Fred Perez in order to get caught. Yeah. They think he literally did that to get caught. Do you think so? I have no idea, honestly, with that one. I can see both sides of that argument. Yeah. Because one...

He does these, I mean, he did it to Lawrence White. He did it right on the side of the road. He hit him with the bat. But it was a little more of a... Off to the side kind of thing. This was in a residential neighborhood on the sidewalk. Yeah, it did break pattern. And he was calm as a cucumber. Right. So, and I have to wonder, did he even, did he see the neighbors? Yeah. He might have even seen the neighbors and been like...

I don't know. Yeah, it is interesting to think about. Because I do believe he is a mentally unstable, mentally ill man. Absolutely. For sure. I don't think you can argue that. I just don't think he's insane. Same. Agreed. Those are two different things. Yeah. I can see both sides of the argument with the did he do it intentionally to get caught thing. I can see it being that. Yeah. And I can see it just being... Coincidence. A coincidence. That he got caught. Now...

Mullen took the stand to testify in his own defense a few days later and did his best to refute much of what the doctor said. According to Mullen, quote, he didn't think it was right to kill and he had gone to a Los Gatos church to give him strength to never attempt to kill again. Apparently that didn't work. Because then you killed a priest. Yeah. In the church. So like...

I don't know how much ground you have to stand on there. Yeah, and then continued to kill many, many people after that. Exactly. Over the course of several hours, he went on to claim that he was commanded to kill by the voices in his head, which sounds a lot like someone who is trying to get that insanity defense. And he gave what one reporter referred to as, quote, a rambling answer complete with biblical references.

Which is kind of textbook. Kind of textbook. His testimony was often unfocused, very incoherent, frequently contradicted himself, you know, that kind of thing. For example, when asked why he killed the four young campers in the woods, he said, quote, I had been arrested in 1968 for camping in possession of marijuana and it bothered me that they should get away with it. I'm sorry, what? I thought it was the polluting. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, what are you talking about? And at no point earlier did he say they had marijuana on them. No. And it's like, now you're saying that you were annoyed that they were allowed to camp there and you got in trouble for it, so you killed them? What? Yeah, like, hello? Yeah. And in that way, he said he was enforcing the law.

No, that's not how the law works actually at all. But then only a short time later, he said something different about it. He said he, quote, received a telepathic message from the young men saying it was all right to kill them. So he did. It sounds like he just had an urge to kill people and follow through on that urge. And he tried to come up with a reason for it. He tried to explain it. Yeah. Yeah.

On August 19th, the jury deliberated briefly before finding Herb guilty on two counts of first-degree murder and eight counts of second-degree murder.

effectively removing the question of diminished capacity from the case. The jury appears to have recognized that he definitely struggled with mental illness. No one is disagreeing with that. But they believed there was sufficient evidence to suggest he knew what he was doing and he knew that it was morally and legally wrong. Yeah, like he literally walked around a couple of scenes and picked up shell casings. Picked up shell casings. Like...

Got rid of witnesses in another scene. He got rid of the whole friends. He got rid of children because he knew they could point and say, he showed up at my door. Right. Like, come on. In his statement to the press, Herbert Mullen's attorney said he felt the jury had not wanted to find him criminally insane because he might end up being released at some point in the future. He told reporters, if a man found innocent by reason of insanity went to a hospital and was never going to get out, I think we'd have a lot more insanity verdicts.

I don't think that's the case. I think they think he knew what he was doing was wrong. And baby girl, why don't you look up the definition of legally insane? Like, don't sit here and try to say, like, they just don't want him to get out of prison and get out of the hospital. It's like, no, we're just looking at the definition of legally insane. And depending on the jury, like, that is just such a cop out. Yeah. Like, fuck you. Like, you failed.

Well, and also just days after the verdict, jury foreman Ken Springer wrote a letter to the governor expressing his outrage that no one had intervened to prevent this loss of 13 lives. Like no one had intervened in Herbert Mullen's life and made this stop. He wrote, I hold the state executive and state legislative offices as responsible for these 10 lives as I do the defendant himself. None of this need ever have happened.

And he cited his multiple hospitalizations and releases as missed opportunities to keep a killer off the street. That's the thing. Like the defense attorney there wants to point to the jury as having it be their fault. It's like, no, it's actually a system failure. Like it is most of the time. Very much a systemic failure here. Yeah. And he was just pointing to what would continue to be a systematic failure because a lot of times people who are proven criminals,

proven criminally insane do go to these hospitals and they do get let out. Yeah. And the whole fucking issue starts up again. Yeah. The cycle begins again. Right. So it's, it is a systematic failure. Yeah. He, he wrote in the letter, according to testimony at his trial, Herbert Mullen could and did respond favorably to treatment of his mental illness.

Yet the laws of the state certainly prohibit officials from forcing continued treatment of his illness. And I have the impression that they, as a matter of fact, discourage continued treatment by state and county institutions. Probably. Which, like, all right, Ken. I know. Like, good for you writing to your governor and being like, fuck y'all. Like, these 13 people didn't have to die. More people need to do shit like that. Yeah, because it's like, there's a, this is a failure on many levels. Mm-hmm.

Herbert Mullen was ultimately sentenced to life in prison and sent to Mule Creek State Prison and loaned to serve out his sentence. He tried many times to gain parole, but he was repeatedly deemed unsuitable by the parole board and denied. While at Mule Creek, he corresponded regularly with supporters outside the prison. That's absolutely fucking bonkers. And even attempted to find a wife.

Did he? No. Good. In 1987, he placed an ad in the Scotts Valley Banner. Why is that allowed? And he wrote, seeking an Irish wife. And he described himself as 40 years old. I'm 14 years in prison. I desire to sire children now. No, thank you. You killed children. Yeah, absolutely not. Crazy. The ad was unsuccessful. That's wild. I know. Also saying sire children is fucking nuts. Yeah, I was like, I gotta go. Yeah.

On August 18th, 2022. Yeah, recently. Herbert Mullen died of natural causes at the California health care facility in Stockton at 75 years old. Unfortunate. It's very unfortunate. He got to live his life out that long and die of natural causes. Very, very unfortunate.

I hate that he got to live. I do too. Because also he outlived Fred Perez and that makes me angry because Fred was 72. Yeah. I'm like, fuck you. A lot of times actual justice is just really never served. It's hard to come by sometimes. Yeah, it is. I mean, at least he went to prison, but just the fact that...

Somebody like that shouldn't have had access to put an ad out for a wife. No. Like, I don't understand. Obviously, like, prison shouldn't be this, like, horrible, like... Let's throw away the key. You know, yeah. Like, it should be a... Like, the whole part is supposed to be. It should be for reform to a degree. Yeah. And we've had that conversation so many times. But I just don't feel like somebody of that level of, like, lack of humanity should be able to put a fucking ad out for a wife. Exactly. I totally agree. Like...

Should he be able to take a class and, you know, maybe better his mind a little bit? Exactly. But like that kind of thing. But putting out a personal ad, like really? We're trying to do that? Like, come on. No, absolutely not. Ridiculous. Well, that was a crazy tale. Yeah, that's Herbert Mullen. With all that being said. Yeah. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it.

But not so weird that you go to prison after murdering a bunch of people and then place a note in your local paper saying that you want to sire children. Gross. With an Irish wife. Yeah, so specific. Yeah, adorable. And strange. And upsetting. Wow.

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