How to Hack Hunger and Cravings Using Science With a Doctor Trained at Harvard, Columbia, and Cornell
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For me personally, i've got a bag here. These are black trouble potato chips. These are the pain of my existence. Oh, my god.

My kids of inner duced me these things, I have to tell you, I have this insane craving for black troubled potato chips every single day around two o'clock in the afternoon. And I can plough through an entire bag dy things. I don't even know if i'm hungry or not.

I just all the sudden boom to a clock. I have to have a positive. And I don't know if you've ever been stuck in that cycle of yo dieting or you finish with dinner, you promise yourself you're not going to eat something and always, and you gotta have ice cream.

What is that about? Well, today were going to dig deep into the science doctor. Amy shaw is a double board certified doctor.

SHE received her training from cornel SHE, did a residency at harvard and a fellowship at colombia. She's an expert on internet, fasting, food allergies, hormones, and you get IT, hunger, cravings, appetite. In fact, you've been asking for doctor, any shot to come on the show. Her latest book, i'm so f and hungry, why we crave, what we crave and what to do about IT doctor amy shows here to tell us what to do about IT doctor. And y IT is such a pleasure to meet you.

Such a pleasure to be here and meet you.

One of the reasons why I want to talk to doctor amy is you are licensed and trained nutritionist with ivy league degrees, and you also a medical doctor, and you understand nutrition and the science of nutrition.

And so when i'm listening to somebody who's a wellness expert that got themselves in shape, who has figured this out in their life, I listen to them differently than I listen to a medical doctor who is also a nutritionist and understands IT from the inside out. And so i'm thrilled that you're here and I want to to start with the difference between hunger, appetite and cravings. So we're all in the same page.

Great question. Uh, the simplest way to think about IT when you're sitting at dinner and you have this amazing dinner appetizer drinks, you know on tray and you are full, you're ready, you're ready to go. And winter comes out that we have these special desserts that we just made tonight and they are out of this world and everyone that looked at each other and they're like, well, we're full, but we really want that desert that's cravings oh, that's not hunger.

You're no longer hungry actually pretty fall extra fall, right? But you are working on that cravings pathway and that cravings s pathway is super strong, is the same cravings pathway, alcohol users, drugs, sugar cravings is a dopamine pathway. Hua, whether hunger is your natural need to get nutrient, actually you can go for many days, even a month .

without food a month.

Yes, people fast for a month. Um from my background um my family is jane, and they fast for long periods of time and there is a fasting month where you actually eat nothing and just drink water. So our hunger signals are reminders to eat because your body does not want you to go a full months without remembering to eat so Green.

You might have heard of this hunger hormones. It's released to remind us to eat. So the same time, every day you get hungry, you get reminded to eat and your Green goes.

So some people just aren't hungry in the morning, and some people get very hungry at night no matter what they've eaten all day because of that grow and cycling. If you understand that it's a cycle, it's a reminder. You don't always have to take that reminder, but it's a reminder.

So what is appeal？

Appetite is the overall interest in food. Have you ever seen a dog when they're sick? They're just like not interested. They are appetite and dampen IT will dampen your cravings. Andrew, hunger part ways.

Okay, heal. So hunger is like this. This need to eat.

Yes, right? That is tied to the biological imperative to state life. Appetite is the desire for food.

And we've all had those periods in our life where we've felt sick. And my allergies are crazy right now. I'm not that hungry Normally.

I would be ravenous right now. So my appetite is is the correct word. I don't have much of an appetite and then cravings. This is one of the reasons why I love your book. I'm so f and hungry so much because i've learned that are cravings and the eating patterns that we have that aren't healthy for us based on the brain, not based on emotion, but that actually there is a whole hormone cycle to this thing.

H, it's so complicated. So there was a french philosophy in eighteen twenty five. John cloud, seven in, and he said, show me what you eat and i'll show you who you are. And even today that stands true, right? Show me what you eat and i'll tell you who you are because our lives are dictator through food uh we have now food addictions um and some of IT is not our fault, a lot of IT is not our .

fault that you actually say that in this book that you say that now you get into these habits of eating unhealthy things, that pulling up at the drive through and ordering the extra large fries and the burger on the way home from work and then you feel like crap and then you have a craving and then you eat some mouse and that it's not your fault. How is IT not your fault if you're the one putting the food in your mouth?

Think about IT. Have you ever been to miami? I always talk about miami phenomenon. okay.

The first time I went, I was in meat school, and I saw all the flashing lights and the people in the music and the craziness. I was like, oh my god, dom receptions were firing up. That's what happens.

The first time you eat a good food like ice or a mcDonalds burger and you get a huge versions, top me. And then on day three of being in miami of a sudden, IT doesn't seem loud. IT doesn't seem as entertaining.

You need to turn the volume up. You need to go to the club now because you're kind of used to IT you. You don't even feel excited or happy just from being out in the street.

You actually need to turn up the volume. And so that's what's happening to us. We're having this miami south speech effect in our brains when we eating all of this sweet food. This process is that they don't occur in nature, that dopamine explosion happening day after day after day. And so the problem is you need more and more and more to get the same dobin release.

And guess what happens? Now on the other end, I know dobin has this weird after effect where IT makes you eatable, IT makes you uncomfortable and IT makes you crave that food so badly that you just went like, almost make yourself not feel the pain anymore. And so job in has this effect on us that we will eat IT, we'll get the pleasure. But then there's like that pain aspect .

to IT because you wanted again, there was something that you just said that really caught my attention. I've never heard anybody say this before, is that you get the dopamine rush from eating things that are not available in nature. Yeah, can you explain that .

when you eat apple? Yes, you get the sugar. Yeah, but you get water elector anti ox dans a and fiber yeah. Most importantly that um is how sugar is made in nature. So you see a fruit tree.

Your doping pathway, we think, was made to help us survive and want to find that tree with the right fruit, to keep us going, to keep us agitated enough to, like, try to look for more food just to keep us surviving OK. Now take IT. You know, thousands of years later, we have ultra progress food, which I will define for you later, that don't have any fiber, they don't have any vitamins to tell the body that you've eaten something. And they packed the sugar in such a small amount of food that the explosion of dopamine you get is similar to a drug like coke.

Or being in south age, yes, it's like bob. And then you have a drop and then you crave the Candy bar or the whatever IT was that you just had that was alter process. So I want to make sure that everybody just heard that the connection between your cravings and your appetite and your hunger, and how this is attached to dopamine yeah, the rush of dopamine, the drop of dopamine, the craving cycle that you're now trapped in. So what does alter process mean?

Alter process is really simple. If you could not make IT in your kitchen or any kitchen because the ingredients are not ingredients of food, then it's ula process. Ultra process means you cannot recreate that food in your kitchen even if you have access to any ingredient in the world.

So that's a lot of things. You know the rios kit cats um sunday um if you think about IT, we have often the option of getting the minimum process or non process version, but it's often easier. It's easier the shelf life is easier when they're in package foods. But the ingredients in there, we don't even know exactly what each one of them does. We just know that when you consume them at the highest quantities, you have eighty percent more mental health days than someone who is consuming .

the lowest quantities. You just said that if you eat more whole naturally occurring food, that you will be eighty percent Better when IT comes to the number of days the you are feeling good mentally .

is that is yes, why we are starting to understand that ultra process foods not only make a smart inflamed, which we can talk about, why information, but IT makes IT ages you, gets you cancer. Abet is heart disease. That's the root of all of IT.

IT makes you sad, anxious, and IT lowers your length of life like. So if you look at all cause mortality, ultra process foods will shorten your life. And yet now we live in a world where kids are eating over seventy percent of their diet is ultra cesse.

You said this thing earlier, and I didn't want to interpret you. I'm almost like embarrassed this question. How do you know when you're full?

It's such a good question. We've forgotten, right, what IT feels like to be hungry or be full. Um we're almost always just relying on external cues to tell us some.

So there's a various ways to feel feel. So we have a couple of four month that make us feel for left in as one of them, C, C, K, S another one. And there's various um signals that they give our brain, mostly just to stop eating.

And so if you feel full, um you won't want to eat food. However, the cravings s pathway kicks in. So you may want to a desserts, but you won't want to eat real food. So a quick way to test this yet is, would you eat a bull of vegetables right now?

Are you now? Now.

then you're not hungry.

So can you explain to us what is going on in our bodies? As IT relates to feeling hungry.

we now know now that. Our brain is not just in charge of our cravings and our mood and the way we show up in the world. We always think, oh, if you feel sad, do thera start to think thoughts.

But we now know that there's this connection between the brain and the god when where an umbro they're connected the one and then they stretch out, they move apart to the different ends of the body. So you could say that they kind of happened from one ball of cells. Um and we can definitely say with confidence that changing our good environment has a bigger impact on our brain than we ever thought. And when you eat food, there's an impact in your gut that sent directly to your brain, and your brain then send signals back down to your gut. And the way you show up in the world is a result of this communication.

In my mind. What i'm visualizing is ChatGPT, right? And A I, and how you just insert this thing, yes, fits out that.

Yeah, i'll take what I eat for lunch. So I had a salad. I had a handful walnuts, I had a couple scopes of a chocolate moto thing, I had a coconut macron. And i'm thinking that all of that represents input into, like, the chat. And what can spit out from that is a message to my brain.

Am I getting in my tracking right? Exactly what's happening. In fact, it's two ways. So you have to remember that our bodies really smart. So they usually use two different pathways for each thing.

So when you eat sugar, for example, IT stimulates your brain straight from your mouth. And then you have these other receptors, these neurotoxin, the gut that sends the sugar also. And they are making their own assessment and sending IT to the god s so good, like it's sugar, because I I knew I was coming, because I felt IT from the mouth.

And now you guys are telling me the same thing. So everything matches and that you get the response. So it's they like work together. Wow, in understanding what's happening in your ow.

It's amazing how sophisticated our bodies are. Amazing because I mindlessly truck and walnuts into my mouth. I'm not thinking about the fact that there are these neurotransmitters ors. There's all this signaling going on.

Yes, that is so interesting, doctor amy tell you IT, let's see a quick word from responsable and let's pick right back up on this topic when we return will be right there. Oh, I am so excited to tell you about one of our sponsors or a friends. I love them.

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Welcome back. I melt Robins, and i'm here with doctor amy shaw. Her latest book is, why am I so F M hungry? We're talking in cravings, hunger, appetite, most importantly, what you can do to get yours under control. And so you in your book, doctor amy, write that if you're in a cycle of emotional eating, or if you're in a cycle where you have all of these and you're always hungry and you're eating the wrong things, that it's not your fault.

it's not your fault .

and it's not your fault because your brain and your hormones are getting triggered by all this alter process. food? yes.

And the alter progress food IT sounds like is food that keeps you craving. IT, yes, because it's not occurring in the natural world. And so your brain is like, holy smokes, this snickers bar is incredible. Oh my gosh, whatever IT is that, I pulled out of a box and ripped out of a package and stuck in to the air fire. This is tantalizing because it's got all these .

chemicals in IT. Yes, the miami beach pheno right? You get just, wow.

I want like, your brain is like, I feel good right now and I want that again. And then it's, I want more of that again. And the problem with our world were not educated about that.

I as A I said to myself, how many times was I rewarding myself with star box and, you know, peppery moas and I would say to myself, oh, I know I did a good job today, so i'm going to get this sweet thing. And then I was every day. And then IT was twice a day.

By the end of IT, I had to recognize myself that this was happening to me. We need to talk about IT more, because if we can make ourselves happier, that's able, let's chasing things. We're going to be happier people.

We're gonna live longer. And so for me, this was like, okay, all these companies know about IT, and they're creating foods to trigger that pathway. Why don't we know about IT? So we actually can being control.

oh, you know, when we hear food, you think calories, yeah, you think how many grams of fat, how many grams of sugar? I don't i've never talked to anybody about the fact that there is this dopamine, tony, all of these hormones are impacted by IT, and it's also being driven by this kind of craving cycle in your brain. And so what do we do if we're not responsible for this situation? How how do we fix IT?

Where do we all begin? You know, the thing is, first understand that food creates mood.

Food creates mood.

So we are always trying to find out ways to make ourselves happier, right? Think more clearly, be more satisfied, right? And so that's why I got so interested in this work because with my background and nutrition and being a doctor, I thought, well, if we can control our mood through food and the actions that we take on a daily basis, why are we talking about this? Why isn't this first line therapy? Um there's really good research uh a new study from south australia that the combination of diet, exercise yep, was one point five times more effective for depression than the leading medications.

Now explain why because that's a big research result that just through food and exercise yeah IT was found to be one and a half times more effective, the medication alone.

And if you think about IT, they actually even put therapy and medications, kind of the traditional treatment, into one category OK. And they compare that with changing your diet, with changing your sleep, your exercise, lifestyle habits OK. And they said we should be prescribing this as first line there before.

Depression is an anxiety. Multiple anxiety studies. A, D, H, D. I mean, we are missing the boat.

Obviously, we're not doing something right, because depression is sky rocking those anxiety. So is obesity. So debuted. So is cardiac ties. So the that is was not working. So why not employ these techniques and put them at the forefront? So things like we talked about in already and Better in the book are teaching you that we have control that, yes, do all the things, but also change the way you eat, change the way you exercise, get more sunlight.

Well, you might be depressed and anxious and struggling with a lot of stuff because of what you're reading, yes, and because of your lifestyle right now.

And so I think it's really great news to hear that you can feel Better if you start to eat Better and that this whole cycle that you are trapped in, in terms of the cravings that never end and the cycle of emotional eating and feeling lethargic and feeling anxious, that you can, based on the research and based on the work that you do with patients around the world, that when you take your food and take seriously, you can profoundly change your mood, you can change your body, you can change your lifestyle, all of that. But IT begins with the food. So let's talk about food that you can eat to baLance. Stop me naturally. What are those foods?

yes. So you want to be eating foods that are high. The mini tie in is the precursor for aldo ba in the brain, and then aldo ba gets converted to dopamine.

So that's how we have to open in. So in the past, IT was thought, well, you can't really do anything to boost the dopa levels in your brain like food has no connection. It's down here. The brain is up peer, right? So everyone uses to say, well, IT doesn't really matter to spot calories, you, but now we know that eating more foods that are high entiring can help boost your dog.

Wow, what are some of those foods?

So one of them is dairy foods. So tiring is that acid? So high protein foods. So the soy nuts. Cherry, okay.

So what I would suggest is say you're having a breakfast in the morning you won to boost doping. Depine is very closely related to A E nor epa and a just a general. So in the morning you want to feel awake or learn and motivated. You wanted eat things with .

higher going to boot.

I, T, O, K, I know what to is controversial. You instead who?

So.

I mean, having a moment .

on social media.

it's bad. People either love IT hate divisive food because of the texture of IT. And so I love IT, but some.

but do Better hobby but rents you about .

cottage chees online IT is but it's having a moment, thankfully and um this ice cream, the ice cream, yes it's all the by all you blend the cottage cheese with a little bit of sweetener and fruit and freezer and then you scoop IT out like ice cream.

Wow, yeah. Is there any good?

It's delicious.

Okay, who know cottage and use the new color .

flour IT can turn into anything. So cut ties in the morning with fruit and nuts OK and you have got yourself a high .

dog in breakfast. Wow OK the .

six ways you can is kind of the contal happiness harmony and so that's a nice one to do maybe in the evening. So trip to fan is the a acid, as you might have heard of trip to francs of turkey yeah but it's also ever present and eggs is in um also dairy food, lee meat, fish um and the way you can actually really get your then feeling is pair with a complex carbo hydra.

So sweet potato or squash kwa and have the protein and the carbo hydra and he gets to this nice birth of serotonin. So serotonin is really good for people, for mood, but also for sleep. concert. Ona is very close to malathion, and those people who struggle with nightly awakenings should try the theatre and boosting foods in the evening.

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Welcome back. I melt robbins, and i'm here with dr. Amy shop. So dr. Amy, one thing that you said that was very interesting that sometimes when you feel hungry, you're actually thursday. How do you know the difference?

Hunger and thirst are very closely related in the brain, and it's often mistaken at. And as you know, often when you go on a health plan, what trainers, they intuitively know that i'll say first thing you do is drink eighty houses of wire and I said, I always used to say, like there's no science behind eighty .

water they were supposed to drink like.

no, our kidneys are very smart, very good at kind of time, trading how much water late baLance we have.

And so you know, you wanna drink about eight dances for every hour that you are, you know, eight hours a day so maybe more like sixty four but that's even not science but just kind of an estimate at you can't really overdo IT um so it's nice sure to have more but the big thing that IT does is that IT hopes us calm the hunger because when you're dehy ted, your body sends you third. But IT also feels like hunger. And so when you're adequately hydrating, you're able to kind of um feel fuller because you're not getting confused. And so I think it's an easy, super easy thing anyone can do is increase your water intake and just wash. You're not going to be as hungry as you were before.

So if any time I feel hungry, should I drink a cup of water? yes. Or do I ask myself if I want vegetables?

What's the track? So both. okay. So when you're trying to navigate this, and you have first take out as many ultra sss foods as you can OK step, step is a amy.

No ultra food, it's gonna hard to do.

No will say, instead of sixty percent for a dollar or seven percent for kids, we would want to go to forty or thirty percent, right? okay. So it's the occasional ultra cession.

That way you can actually hear the signals and you're not like getting drowned out by all these altered signaling that happening. And then you start to take note. You say, wo every day around one o'clock is when that's for me.

Giving my own example after lunch is when I start to crave sweets even though i'm not hungry. And so i'll ask myself and i'm in the office usually, and i'll ask myself, am I hungry or am I just wanting something sweet? And that's the first question.

And then I ask myself, that's vegetable test, what I want to bull vegetables right now? no. So then I say, let me just drink a glass of water, see how I feel.

And fifty minutes. So I get up, I drink a glass of water. I might have a Sparkling water.

I try to make a fine you at some lemon lime and then asked yourself, like, are you still hungry or craving or are you fine? And that's a way to kind of get back with yourself, right? We're always trying to be the most authentic version of ourselves and that goes with what is my body want right now? What is really want? What is the world telling me um I want. And if you're on a sugar and processes cycle, you can't hear your own signals.

How can you explain the cycle? Because I think a lot of us are on the cycle, but we don't realize IT. So like you, right around two o'clock, we have a colleague who I A door who always has our chocolate. Yes, and i've worked with her for long enough that now two o'clock rules around and I am looking for the camp, looking for the chocolate. Explain the craving cycle yeah so that we can spot IT when we're in IT because i'm assuming that is a craving cycle.

And okay, this is the best way to think about the craving cycle OK when you eat something that you badly creve, it's pleasure mixed with pain so discomfort so you're eating IT but your almost like, oh, shall I be eating this? When can I get this again? And I having too much, it's like IT isn't a pure pleasure feeling.

It's a pleasure. And then when i'm a going to get IT again, I need to stop eating IT. Right now most people can identify, based on this description, some food that trigger that in them and this could be a warm chocolate chip cookie IT could be know if you just eat IT you're like, ah I can't wait to have a scan or i'm eating too much and that's a craving cycle right there. And you know alcohol is very typical um for people because there I have women clients who say to me all the time, I crave that glass of winter, two glass of wine at the end of the day. And it's almost like if I don't get IT, i'm here able and I I don't feel right and that's that's the cravings s pathway right there.

So it's interesting to hear you describe IT like that because i'm sitting here trying to think if I ever felt that with an apple now, right now, have I ever felt that with broccoli? no. But I do feel that in both the case of chocolate, I feel that sometimes in franchise or a cross on the first bite is heaven. yes. And then I start this conflicted inner dialogue around IT what is actually going on inside of us that creates that in conflict.

It's the dopamine dopa release also activates neural pathways that make us feel uncomfortable, agitated, almost like hi um that's why it's so if you understand that stop me pathway that we're describing now you think about IT and you see why people get head ball. They have poor mood, make bad decisions when they are consistently like releasing dopamine in from food or video games. instagram.

We live in a world where you could actually deplete your dopamine and you'll feel exhausted and you'll feel it'll feel like A D, H D. You can concentrate IT will feel like you're not really interested in anything anymore. Life isn't. You don't want to go work out .

that sounds like burn out.

Yeah it's it's your dopamine pathways can get burned out in this world that we live in because there are so many excessive releases that if you play the video games, you eat the sugary food. And you know, so many of us do so many of these things. Like I said, I was that person. Unless you have all those things, you feel uncomfortable and unable.

Can you explain the biology .

of hunger and cravings? Yes, extremely important to know the difference and to know the difference what's happening in your brain and their body. When you're hungry, you have hunger hormones like Green that are released to tell you to get nutrient from food.

It's the way we survive in this world. And cravings, on the other hand, also have to do with survival. But it's telling us to go for the high impact foods to cravings is the pleasure. Hormonal cycle is a whole different pathway, does not use growling IT is going through the dopamine pathway, completely different area of your brain. Hunger and cravings are completely separate now they obviously pair together in many in many ways, like when women diet all the time.

If you have lived in this world and you have um ever been on some crash diets like I have your dopamine levels, meaning your cravings go up, but so does the volume of your Green. why? Because your body is sensing that you're not eating enough, that you skip meals, that you might be going to a deep chloric deficit.

And so IT is turning up the volume. So on the hunger side is turning up the volume on Green. On the craving side, it's turning up the volume dupine. So the two separate paths become one. And people will say, when you're dating, after you are just starving, both, you know, for food and for dessert and just your hunger is just out of control and sorry, your cravings.

wow. So that's fascinating to know that it's too different pathways. S yeah, that craving is very different and its signal and part of the dopamine cycle and that gremlin is .

that what it's called it's IT sounds like gremlin, but it's glyn grin lapin neuroptera Y Y C. We have all these hormones that are supposed to remind us to eat, to tell us we're full. That's all part of hunger. Um the craving pathway is the one we struggle with all the time. It's the it's the dopamine .

pathway. I really get I think I get this because what i'm realizing is you have a biological need to feed yourself or you will die. Yes, but most of us are not struggling with our biological need to eat. We are struggling with the dopamine cycling and crashing that comes with creating holy smokes.

Dopamine is the most powerful motivator. And food companies, video game companies, gambling porn, every they all know that dopa is so strong men that dopamine is a only no transmitter in our body that can get us out of a seat. Whatever we're doing, stop whatever we're doing, get in a car and go get that thing that dope means telling us to do yeah.

it's like drive, go.

Do you can't think about anything else, huh?

So what you just mention, lapon or lepton, how do you what is IT and how do you use IT to have conger?

Lepton is our fullness signal. So the opposite of garlin. okay. And it's great because IT tells us, hey, you're for you don't need to eat anymore. And so let them when IT gets released um makes us to say i'm good and we want more lepton to a understander. So here are hunger cues are lepton off in we can hear IT uh because everything else is so loud right yeah so one of the ways best ways to sensitizer lupton is to sleep more. Really, that's one of the best ways, if you've ever noticed, after bad night sleep.

I, anna.

eat you. Anna, eat why? And you just don't want, you just don't feel fall. Your lepton is thirty three .

percent less. You're right. You do wake up after a bad night sleep feeling like your service, but if you have a really good nigh sleep, you wake up feeling common.

Relax yes. And I don't have the hunger pain. yeah.

So if you think about IT, we want to start to use our inner signaling pathway yeah, to hear what our bodies telling us, because our bodies really smart. And so lapin that one of the best ways is to get more sleep. Another really great way is to eat more omega three fats. So omega three fatty acid are one of the things in salmon. Uh for people who don't eat fish, its an L G oil um so you can take the L G oil nuts have omega three is a great way to start to get your lepton back up so that a lot of people will start eating more omega three five asses and of a sudden they're not as hungry anymore. And part of the signal is through both lepton and C C K um which are both kind of the association satisfaction, don't we all?

Want to just be more satish. Now can you take lepton in a pill?

Um there's no lepton in a pill as of yet. That would be the million dollar drug, right?

H that's true. That's not what that go, whatever.

So G L P one is a more that .

matches .

that works in conjunction with lepton, okay, to make you feel full, the medications of them big, the gov, all of those medications in that class. Um R G L P one agonis, which means IT raises our level, our natural level of the ation harmon's. And so G L P one is kind of like lepton in the sense that IT makes us feel full and is naturally released by our got.

When we are full, we can eat things like nuts and certain foods that actually released marg L P one naturally. So you can get the same effect naturally. So getting more sleep exercise, these are always to actually get more of that natural .

hormones to make you feel more of wow um do you have a simple way to stop yourself from over eating if you're .

just a chronic over either there's there's a few simple ways um if you want to stop over eating, one of the things you can do is you pair the good activity, uh, a good activity right after the bad activity. So give me so is like a positive replacement behavior OK. So you are did something that you didn't want to do.

Maybe you ate an ultra processor that you are trying to cut down OK immediately after go for a Sunny walk OK, the positive replacement behavior will slowly get longer and teach your neural pathways that you don't want to be doing the negative. The other way is to retrain your brain, so say you create this Candy bar like a sneakers. Okay, what you do instead is you take a dark chocolate is also another pleasure um creating food and replace the seekers with the uh healthier chocolate OK and the way you do IT is in my surprise reward. So let me explain that you okay.

so let's just say it's two o'clock in the afternoon. It's two a clock in the afternoon meal has for many months been reaching for an alter process. Candy bar, yes, and IT is now the new day. I have heard this podcast with doctor amy and i'm gonna try this approach.

What by doing you are going to intimate tly reward yourself with a healthier version of that guk chocolate. So either pick IT out of a um uh um a fish ball with like little papers in IT or ask someone that's working with you to say random three days a week I get a reward OK, but he has to be random because woman works the best when you get a random reward. K and you are trying to rewire your system to not .

want that alter process can be.

instead crave the healthier version. I caught me three, two, one methods, okay, three random days a week, kay, two minutes, telling yourself how much you love this chocolate. It's so much such a Better choice. C, B, T, which is cognitive behavior author saying, i'm so happy, I choices one minute saverin, IT. And you have, you do this for two weeks, and you have replaced that bad habit with a good one.

Okay, okay. So let me just make sure I got this. So if it's three, two, one method and i'm picking three days this week, could I if I don't have somebody to do this with me, could I just set an alarm in my family?

Randomly, alarm goes off. Bm, that's the random, yes. Intermit and replacement, yes. Second thing I do is I tell myself the reasons why this is a Better choice, the reasons why i'm proud of myself. And then the final thing I do, I sucked my mouth and and slow .

down the .

process of enjoying how the heck, after a couple weeks of doing this with this, make my brain no longer want the alter process.

Can you are? Because i'll tell you why, if you look at the other way around, in the negative sense, you, this happens all the time. You get addicted all the time to things that intimately reward us with doping, gambling.

问 你 问 你 问。 You win big doping explosion. Now you wanted, again, you do that a few times.

And guess why? Now you are creating that. And so the way IT works in real life is the most addicting. The biggest dopamine releases is when you get an international reward. Think about relationships, toxic relationships OK.

Let's talk toxic relationships.

That guy gal gives you the international rewards. They give you what you need just enough to keep you craving and going back for more. You know how this works? This happens all the time.

You won't hear from someone, and then you will. And I kind of keeps you hooked on that person. And the the people who do IT often know that intimate ally kind of giving them love attention and will be enough to keep them coming back for more. It's so true because if you .

think about either the times in your life when you've been stuck in that pattern or if you have a friend or a family member who's super annoying ah and is stuck in a very toxic relationship dynamic, what do they do? They spend a lot of time explaining those international inconsistent moments where the person actually was a good person, but he actually did do this.

They follow through, yeah.

they followed through. And so if I go back to the Candy bar, ideas so fascinating, do you still eat the ultra process Candy bar during the two weeks that i'm trying .

this intermit redev would to take that give yourself a new kind of addiction, or a new craving that is a healthier craving. So you can do that with anything but bar to start. Chocolate is a great example.

We can do that with so many different things in our life. But food, you can create new memories, new craving pathways, because dopamine has neural pathways from when you a kid. So reversing those are tough. If you have to do this a few, you know, that's one thing you've got to do IT for a few weeks to really feel like now you've replace that behavior.

Tell me about cycle bio dict. What the heck are those? And how do they help you stop this cycle of craving?

They found yeah, that they're certain gut bacteria, and they call them psycho biotics because those good bacteria that present in people who have depression a are the same and there's got bacteria that are people that are always like happy uh or they have a positive outlook on life. They have a specific set of got back. They noticed that there are even studies where you can take private teller. You can take what, what is a type of bacteria. You can take lack of salas, a type of bacteria OK.

You can add, I take this like, I know my, and I don't know what to do. I want to be happy or not depressed. And yeah, I don't want to be eating a chocolate at two o'clock, doctor amy.

So the world of psychosocial tics is the next for a for mental health .

because sexy psycho biota ah .

IT is that you can actually change your brain .

yeah through the .

bacteria in your gut.

So this is very similar to what you said about food mood. yes. So if you start to take what doctor amy saying very seriously, SHE is making the case for why alter process foods are fucking your move up and keeping you trapped in these cycles of craving and doping that make you feel miserable, that make you feel out control.

And now if i'm tracking correctly, we're on a air deeper. Because if we get specific about the bacteria that you put into your gut, the stuff is gonna break all that crap down and it's gonna create some sort of magical alex r in your gut that will then chat GPS. And the message up to your brain that this has implications for depression, for anxiety, for all kinds of mental health stuff is out.

What you're saying, that's what i'm saying. And it's not just exciting depression's. More IT is autism, parkinsons, A D H D. Every single mental health condition that we are struggling with in our modern world seems to be stemming from that by directional. Like I said, they talk to each other both ways.

the brain and the gut.

The brain talks to the gut. The gut talks to the brain. And now we're learning that we left this whole half on the table in terms of the gut, you're .

absolutely right. Because think about IT everybody. We've been addressing mental health from the neck up, and we've been addressing IT typically with talk therapy or some sort of pharmaceutical drug that presumably on your brain and your neurotransmitter ors, but aren't the majority of your neurotransmitter ers. And you got, yes.

people will say to me, while those newer transmitters in the gut are so far from the ones in the brain. But what's fascinating is that we're seeing a very tight correlation. Like I said, they talk to each other.

And when your god is producing lots of dope, means salton's. These good bacteria are signaling to the brain in at least four different ways that we know to also release dopamine and serotonin. And so what they're doing, they're sending signals through the nerves.

They're sending harmon's. They're sending these things called short chain fat acts, which the'd got Better a mic, and they go to the brain and they make IT feel happy or sad. So we are now aware of at least four different ways that what's in your gut is affecting what's going on in your brain.

So, doctor amie, give me the list. What are the bacteria I need to be taken? And what is a bacteria anyway? Like, how was bacteria different than food? I know ya bizarre question, but if I am eating an apple, the second that you described an apple, you're like, okay, you've got sugar, you've got water, you've got fiber fibers really important.

You're got certain vitamins that signals to your brain that that you're actually eating something and that's going to help you make you be fuller. And I didn't even think about the fact that an apple has all that stuff in IT. Where does bacteria come? Okay.

this is such a great question. IT goes back to the fact that we're actually not just ourselves where equally um bacteria selves our body is equally bacterial .

al cells. I don't even know what the hell that mean.

Okay, so in when you go through the mouse yp, you go into your throat, yes, you go into your stomach and then there's this instant, yes. And then there's the s out in that gei track. There is a world that lives there, and it's full of bacteria, viruses and even protosova like these organisms. There's a world that is living inside of your body that doesn't belong to you.

Wow, if you really think about your mouth and how your mouth leads to a series of internal tubes that lead to the pop shoot, you get IT all out of there that that's like an internal soul. yeah. IT is a super highway for outside access through your body. yes. And when you put food in your mouth, your entire gi track is trying to freeze nutrient from IT and get the waste out.

And guess what, they can't do IT without the thick lining of got bacteria that go all the way through to the inner opening. So what i'm saying to you is that there's more bacteria. There's like a thick bacteria lining. There's just like one layer of our own cells that do the work that we need to be done.

If we didn't have the bacteria in there, what would happen? We would .

damage our body all the time. What we are learning now is that as we are modernizing, our thick layer is becoming thinner later. And then there's areas that um even then it's almost like blank and that just a one way of uh gut cells.

So what happening is they get damaged. They get damaged from the toxins that we eat, the foods, the alcohol, the antibiotics s, the I, B. Proof in all that should that we eat and taking.

And what happens is those cell walls get damaged. Yep, and you start to have problems because when that sell well, get stems, i'll give you a visual. There's something traveling through god IT damages that cell all of A N your whole immune system comes there because it's like a cut, like something hurt you. Your whole immune system comes there as if you had a cut and says, hey, where there's a inflaming response here and this keeps happening all over the place. You have all these fires that are now happening and that inflation tion of the god.

So when your stomach hts.

after you eat IT, uh, after gluten, people say, oh, now I can't stand gluten, I can't eat um this food. I can eat food. I am having an allergy.

AmErica t that's what's happening.

And when you hear the word leaky, god, that's what they are .

referring to. Got IT. okay. So do we take bacteria, what probiotics are like? What is going like? I don't even know where to start.

I love that question because I get this every single day. People are always like, so which .

bacteria is? I take .

a pro .

bacteria, meaning we are for the bacteria. Yes.

going in a probiotics is an actual um bacteria. So we're trying to add more bacteria to that thick lining yeah that can help us right IT OK. But the problem is, is that study are inconsistent.

Sometimes we're seeing lack abilities and provoke ller are boosting you depression a mood. Other times it's not doing anything. Other times it's helping the antidepressants.

We still, we still say, I say, hey, I already know well, well how to improve your gutters acra and you don't need pills or a probiotic, what you do that you need to eat the food that feeds s up, meaning fiber, real food, not ultra ses food. So fier you need eat food that have natural bacteria. In IT yoga, kim chema.

the crowd is .

vinegar, apple saor vinegar, the raw kay, you need to eat more of that. In fact, they are found that four savings, four to six servings a day of a probiotic food 啊 was actually the best at increasing the amount of happy bacteria。

That seems like everybody's adding probe on things.

Our body are so smart. Everybody knows that when you're Carrying bacteria in your, in your god, they're gonna first try to kill IT because there they think it's foregone. So when you're taking a probiotic pill, a supplement, a lot of IT gets killed because body like h this is a bacteria we got to kill IT could be bad bacteria, right?

When it's in in the mesh you think about like in the net of the food, yes, in a small cwd and a kim t even an apple sider vg, nature occurring, they let the pass through and so gets the lower part of the cut where IT needs to be. And so we are now realizing that a way we should be doing more things that increases a happy bacteria. You know what? The number one, probiotics.

I have no idea.

exercise. How the hell is .

exercise of probiotic?

Got bacteria. Love when you move E, M. And they produce this thing called short chain fatty assets. And I mentioned short chain fatty assets before, when I was talking about the brain gott connection.

When you exercise those short chain file assets, go to the brain, go all over the body and calm the information. They calm your brain, you feel good, you feel, and they grow the bacteria in the gut. It's a signal.

It's very clear, based on the case that you're making, that if you were to focus on mostly whole foods and you are really become diligent about removing as many unhealthy processed food ds from your diet, you would see a significant change in your mood.

You would see a significant change in your energy and a significant change in your overall health if you add an exercise, not only because that helps boost the natural production of bacteria, but we also now know, based on this new research study, that a change in your diet and consistent exercise can be more effective than taking an anti depression, going to therapy for depression, because your body is designed to him itself and to run properly. And even if you have spent a lifetime jamming big max down your face and you feel stuck in this craving cycle that you can reverse this, I think that's so hopeful. You say that you can get rid of, let's say, like a sweet tooth and thirty days. How do you do that? For those of us that like sugar and our coffee, you know who i'm talking to, for those of us that I love dessert, we crave IT baby, like how do we get rid of IT?

I'm going to tell you me so profound k OK, when they did a study, they planned IT to be thirty days actually to change someones very drastically OK. So I give me the dry go from so I had to rank the worst food, be like high fructose concern, so so so as, but drinks also. So juice, orange juice from the grocery store is in the .

soda category, by the way, way. Orange juice from .

the girls y store is part rise. It's hot. So all those bans are we hoping four or looked the fiber is filtered out and all you're left with is the water and the sugar.

So it's like people drink juice as if it's a health food, right? So to has a bad connotation, right? But juice is just as bad, like rivals a soda. wow.

OK. What's another one?

So high fruit s corn syrup soda is probably the top. Kay, process meets .

what is a process meat. So process .

meat means not your grass fed Better, but the one from the drive through there's additives in IT. It's not just to meat. Bacon often have night trades and they have flavors and sugar.

So process me hot dogs is a great example OK. They're just basically putting a bunch of meat together, but they're adding all these other non food items OK. They said, let's to switch their diet so drastically and actually do IT in a clinical center where they're only lowed to eat with us.

And they change to a high vegetable and fruit, no juices or soldiers, no process me. They started to look at their stool to see what they got bacteria were doing. Yeah, can find, find out. Okay.

like how long does this? Really, how long does this take?

Guess how long IT took? Tips, see a market difference. I have no idea. Three days, three days in three days of this rapidly shift and diet.

Kk.

you had a whole new got bacteria colonies happening.

all IT took.

That's all IT took. This is a study in nature, the highest level journal in in the world, like the harvard of journals. The big picture here is you have the power, like you always say.

And I always say this too, we can save ourselves. We can change our mood. We can change our lifespan.

We can change how we come into this world every day. We have the power. And IT takes three days.

Wow, talk to you about drinking warm water. Why warm water that is horrendous .

is not to meet to say that water, I would say, is so good for you yeah whether you drink a cold, whether you drink at warm. But there are some theory that if you drink water, warm our room temperature, it's more easily absorbed for you. But I give you like your body body and so there's no warming that needs to happen because you know internally where ninety eight degrees .

are all extra, how do you know if you're getting enough sleep based on the things that you study? Yes, because for eight hours.

yeah how many how many hours you sleep by the .

way the older I get them, more boring I am so I would say nine or ten .

yeah I love that people who sleep less than six hours have a higher mortality. They have lower mood um and they have are hungry as we said with the lepton um what you wanna do is really to realize what how much sleep you need is when you sleep without an alarm, how many hours do you sleep and not when I sleep deprived.

But I bet I sleep ten hours but I don't have an alarming. I sleep way longer than I think i'm going to.

When you look at the last couple of weeks of your life, yeah, the best days, the when you felt the most refreshed, the best mood were the .

days I got the best, the highest to sleep.

That's how much left you need. And every american that's listening to this is gonna like, I can sleep that much. But you think about your best days of your life happened when you slept adequately.

IT changes your hunger hormones. IT changes your hormones in general, you know, for women, especially as we get older. Um this is important. IT changes your mood. IT changes your ability to make decisions yeah and your interactions with other people.

So why would you, anna skip on that? Why would you say that you'll be like everybody else, you know, sleep when you're dead. When you look at the data, the data says opposite.

He says if you don't sleep, you'll be dead much earlier. That's true. If you don't sleep, you will be more depressed, more anxious, have more uh, hunger and craving signals. You are gonna be a version of yourself that is is a shell of what you want to be.

Can you walk us through what you would recommend? What is on our plate and when are we actually eating? Okay, for for, like, you know, complete hand .

talk about rhythm, t sunlight and darkness. Run our bodies. We have internal clocks in every one of ourselves.

So routines are excessively important OK in terms of our mood and our body, our nutrition. So when you wake up in the morning, you want to get sunlight. I have a rule, when you wake up, go get sunlight first. Sky before screens.

Oh, I love that.

So sky before screens is how you should start your day. Your body is wire to see sunlight in the morning, even if it's a cloudy day, just has to be great light. You can just walk out outside.

My back door just walk out for few minutes. You could be two ten minutes you could do um for me, i'm usually just in my pajamas. I'm coming back in and getting ready for the day OK. So you don't want to have food or caffeine in the first forty five minutes of your day.

why?

I'll tell you why when you wake up you feel groggy, right? Yeah, that goes. Ss is partially mostly from a deny in your brain in dance.

And IT clears out within thirty, forty minutes to clears out. Then you have your coffee, then you each your food. And the reason why is coffee blocks are a deny recept IT just blocks IT from actually binding k. So if you don't let anything clear out and you just drink your coffee when the coffee wears off in a couple hours, that a denting still there and just bind those receptors and you feel excessively tired.

and that's why you think you need another cup of coffee.

And then you fully like the people that wake up and they need the coffee right then, and then they needed to get at at ten o'clock and then they needed to get at one o'clock. It's because you're not letting that a dense OK. You need to let that .

clear out guilty. So i'm going to try this tomorrow. I'm onna wake up.

I'm going to wait forty five minutes. Then i'm going to have my coffee. I'm going to see if I have a craving for a second cup. Yes, that is fascinating.

Okay, so you want to get out nature because it's not naturally. If you start the caffeine .

cycle right away. Got so cleared IT out for forty five minutes. Get our sun in. What's next? And okay.

no minute. So everybody, I love interment fasting.

Then why are you reading?

Because I do, with the opposite way.

Talk to me.

There's a very good evidence that for thousands of years we ate in one scheduled way, which is daylight hours. Oh, there was no mic waves. Uber eats, you know, there was, they had a fire.

And you maybe eat an hour two after sunday. That's IT right here. You are not snacking at midnight. There is nowhere store of the food.

Thousands of years ago, our internal clock are set so that when more tony hits to the three hours before for bed, your organs shut down. You cannot press sugar as well as you did. You cannot take IT into your muscles.

You're not really in digestive enzymes. When you're eating late at night, you are waking your body up in the middle the night and asking you to do a math problem. Your body's gonna be like, I don't want to do this. That's what happens when you .

eat late at night. Holy smokes, you put your body in conflict with itself.

Yeah, so meant facing everyone's doing IT the wrong way. They're eating way late into the night and then the don't eat all day when the sun is out, right? Like that's the time that you what your body's ready for food, right?

So ideally you know you wait in the hours. It's nobody needs to be eating every minute of every day. Americans just, we just eat fourteen to six hours a day is just too much, right?

So you wake up, maybe get a movement and you get your sunlight. You eat about hour or two even after you wake up. You don't to push you to two, three, four collect.

People are doing this thing. There's good evidence that skipping meals is actually bad for you, and that people who do IT habitue actually have worse health outcomes. Okay, got IT.

So eat your breakfast. You wanted have a hy dope, mean, breakfast. Yeah, cotched eggs to scramble vegans.

not spirits. hungry. I am I hungry right now? What I eat, the veils I would ever sus me. I'm hungry, but I got a type of glass of water first, and then asked myself that again.

yes, SHE learning. Then you tune in with the inner male, you know, brain, god mail OK. So then you can eat when you're hungry again.

You can use your inner cues. Could be twelve, be one. Whenever your inner q OK, you'll notice your glin is set to at on a timer.

Every day you'll get hungry at the same time. So hello and so what do you eat for lunch?

The healthier you eat earlier in the day, the Better your chance of um seeking to IT. So I always say exercise and eating healthier foods, breakfast and lunch is your best chance for me. Try to eat the same things every day.

So what do you at for large? So I eat a salad for lunch. I usually put a protein source on a IT can be different beans not to get to.

You could do eggs. You could do sam and what everyone, protein and vegetable, a salad with protein on in the end. I always have a ferment probiotic food with my lunch because that's the best time for you to get in.

At least one to two servings of the kim tea of the car craft could be a computer for a, you know, a drink, apple sider video, inner dressing, so that when you have the best chance, really simple IT can be very simple. And then your dinner is when you want to eat. If you are someone, yes, you're learning, paying attention. So um if I know it's not sexy to say e cards, but carves actually can be very healthy for you, especially in vegetable form, sweet ka whatever IT. You can eat that later in the day if you want to have that big boost of serotonin.

And what about snacks? If I like legit hungry, but i'm not really craving anything, yes, that i'm legit hungry midday. What's your go to speak? So remember .

that protein has this affect body that IT tells your hunger to hunger hormones to stop. So if you want more lepton, eat more protein. So your snack can be yogurt, your snack can be approach check, your snack can be A, A, A piece of is something with protein, because that will keep your doing levels up OK and IT will keep your hunger holds hormones stable.

So protein snack, I think women especially, were eating just too little protein. There is a theory, yes, that the reason we get fat from eating ultra process food is because it's so low in protein that your brain never gets the signal that you're full. Your protein thresh hold is never met.

wow. One final thing I want to ask you because we didn't really cover IT gluten. Everybody I know is gluten free. Yeah.

it's not the gluten. There is very few people who are actually literally to gluten. And like I told you, I have a degree allergy. And the way we look at IT is that if you're allergic to gluten, you you'll have animal axis that's glute logy. IT is very common to have G I issues with process gluten.

So when you need a lot of bread, pizza cards, but that that the gluten itself is the fact that you're eating processed food, so gluten gets mislabeled LED all the time. What I say to people is go gluten free for a few weeks, three to four weeks. okay?

See how you feel when you add the gluten back. Don't add back the bread, the cookies, the cakes and the process. Add back a small weet bulger like in a salad OK, add back um a healthy 3 bread， add back you know we in small unprocessed amounts and then see how you feel. And what I realized is that people have vanished gluten all the time in america. Gluten free um has become such a tag line that those food are more unhealthy.

Oh because of all the processing look at you, doctor, amy or anything else on this topic that we did not get.

I think we covered so much. I think I like you said, and I have taken this to heart, is that there is no pill that's gona save you. There is no person that's gona save you. You, when you learn about all this, when you actually listen to your own self, you are gonna be the one who save yourself.

Well, doctor amy shah, let me just say thank you, because without this information, we can save ourselves. And you've explained the internal extremely elegant but complicated systems inside of us so that IT makes sense, so that we understand why these choices, these substitutions, why IT actually matters like that. My huge takeaway, i've never actually understood any of this at the level that you just explained, and that's an enormous gift. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I appreciate you. You give so much amazing information to everyone that it's just a gift to be here and to speak to you. Well.

feelings mutual bay, wasn't you great? Well, you know who else is great? You are. So before we go, I just went, remind you that I love you.

I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to take back your health, to make a million happy, psychotic otis yourself. Now go make a bowl of raw vegetables, put down the potato chips. See, i'm learning.

I hope you're learning to. I wish I had not worn these high wasted pants. It's like wearing a turnkey.

When you sit down, we have ten minutes before doctor shaw rives, hey me, those potatoes, I cannot stop them is not, by the way, OK, I start over? yeah. but.

I don't think you are. Is chewing, I am. I'm sorry, guys, here we go.

Is there anything like tip my just coming. Take these pp chops. Oh, and one more thing I know, this is not a blue pen.

This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers, right? And what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

I am not a license therapies, and this pocket is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physical professional coach, psychotherapy or other qualified professional. Got IT good. I'll see in the next episode.

stitcher.

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