"Stephen Graham"
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Mmm, so tasty. So I love this. I had this summer berry refresher delivered to my house from Starbucks. I drank it in like one gulp. It was so delicious. And it's blue. And those little like pearls at the bottom, the little raspberry. Oh my God. It was just so refreshing. I loved it. I'm going to drink it all the time. Anyway, however your summer, your summer favorites are ready at Starbucks. Hey guys, good morning. I'm drinking some tea. What do you got?

Uh, spit? Spit in my mouth? That's about it? Welcome to Smart Less. Smart Less. Smart Less. Smart Less.

Hey, what do you got? Do you call it a toiletry bag or do you call it a dop? Is it dop kit? D-O-P? D-O-P as in Paul? We went through this on stage in front of thousands of people. Oh, I don't remember things. Yes, yes. Do you not remember? No. We were on tour. We were in Washington, D.C. It was our first night. And we got Sam Jones as a gift, right? Yeah.

Didn't we? I don't remember that part. Oh, look whose memory is a little soft. But what does Dopp Kit mean? D-O-P. It's German, right? For toiletry stuff. It's German, man. Remember, somebody in the audience yelled it out and they said it's German. I forget how it came about. Anyways, yes, D-O-P-P, Dopp Kit.

Hey, what, why? Go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to say, why, what happens in the morning when you, like, I can't sleep. I'm constantly clearing my throat today. Uh-huh. Does that mean I'm sleeping on my- Is there a joke here? Guys, real quick. The word was coined by leather worker Charles Doppelt who patented the idea of dops in 1919 and marketed them locally before landing a contract with the U.S. Army during WWII. And that he was a German?

Leatherworker. I think he was American. Let's see. Well, it sounds German. More to come next episode. Trust Doppelt. D-O-P-P-E-L-T. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I'm looking at it too. I also have the internet, Bennett. So... Congrats, guys. It's like when we get back, you know, when we brought this up before and people go, I did my own research. Like, oh, you've got Google? Fuck off. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And you know, it takes like five seconds. You know...

So last night... Oh, sorry, Sean. You were trying to get to some business. Sean's like, yeah, I know. It takes five seconds. So my story that I've got ready. No, I was actually serious about like the, I can't stop clearing my throat. I don't know why. Does that mean I'm getting sick? I don't know. Or do you want to reschedule today's recording? No, no. It might be the smoke from the Canadian fires.

I think that's the Toronto Maple Leafs fans still being a handful up there. What happened? Did they win? Dude, we don't need to get fucking shots fired over there. Are they not doing well? It's, Dave, that's an understatement. It's been a minute. Oh.

It's been a tough, I haven't mentioned it since. It's been a while, but they lost again in another game seven. And it was really good. Boy, that, I can't believe, I still haven't talked to you about it. I watched all three periods of you and Biz doing your commentary on that game with your blazers on. I can't, I mean, I sat there, I had the clicker in my hand the whole time, never punched it.

Just watched you two... I want to see it. ...blather on. I didn't see it. You know what the best part was? And I took a shot at you because I said, baby was supposed to be here. He was like literally a mile away and he didn't come. I was less than a mile away. Less than a mile. Still just smiling at you saying, yeah, you know, he might even stop by during this. And I was just like laughing at myself. That's not going to happen. But, you know, we...

The best part was they go, do you guys want to go do this? And Biz and I were like, yeah, let's do it. And we get there, we do the pregame, and then we go to this other studio to start this kind of alt cast thing. And then just the dude goes, in five, four, three, two,

And I'm like, hey, everybody, we had no plan, you can tell. Just sitting in chairs. And then we had like... And you just commented on this game? Yeah, we just literally watching the game along with the audience at home. That's fun. And doing their own commentary. We had Charles Barkley kindly called in. He was amazing. He was great, yeah. He was hilarious. And then our buddy Al Michaels. He's a singer.

Yeah, also amazing. Also amazing. Sorry, Sean, you think Charles Barkley's a singer? I always think he's the singer, right? Isn't there a singer named Charles Barkley? Gnarls Barkley. Do you think it might have gone the other way? Oh, Gnarls Barkley. Yeah, you think maybe Gnarls got it from Charles. Do you think that the Arnold Palmer was... Do you think Arnold Palmer the golfer gave himself the name after the drink or... Sweet Sean. I know. Hey, by the way, Sean, think about how sweet Sean is. Um...

Franny, my eldest listener, she had a scavenger hunt last night. And I guess one of the boxes they had to check was get a picture with a celebrity. And Sean was nice enough to stay up until- Introduce them to some celebrities? That's so nice. 1030, 1045 or something, she drove over to your house with all of her friends and took a shot of you? Yeah. I'm like, what's going on with your dad? Can you just take a shot with him? I guess I don't count. Yeah.

Yeah, it didn't count because... Now, did you go through the works before they got over there? Were you... Check out that photo. Was your hair and your makeup all set? Check out that photo. It's horrible. I look like I'm 95 years old. Oh, so you checked it. You said, let me see it. Yeah, well, I did it myself. Because, you know, when somebody stops and asks for a photo, which is so kind...

I always grab the phone. I said, "Let me take it because it takes me two seconds to open the phone. Otherwise, it takes half an hour for them to wait. I got to find my phone icon." I'm like, "Just give it to me." And so I took it with all them because it's a scavenger hunt. So you only have five seconds. So I said, "Everybody stay behind." Whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't know that rule. What are you talking about? Well, it's a scavenger hunt. You got to get your thing and you got to go. You got to get your thing on the list and go.

But I had to hang out with them for like five, 10 minutes because their friends were in another car. Anyway, who cares? And I took a photo of myself and it didn't look great. But Franny's the sweetest. I hope this is going to be in your book. I mean, that's riveting. You know, you're telling me that story about grabbing everybody's phone and taking the picture of yourself all the time. And I immediately go to all the germs that I would be taking on my hands by touching everybody else's phone. You know, it's the dirtiest thing in your life.

Your iPhone? I think your mouth is. It's dirtier than your toilet seat. Again, I just want to point out, are you watching people drop dead on the street or something? Yeah, they're wrong. We're all fine. No, it's just a gross factor. I'm not worried about getting sick. I did, though, but I did want, Franny texted me earlier in the day. She's like, are you going to be up like around between 10th and 11th? I'm like, yeah. Yeah.

And then, and I'm watching the Osama Bin Laden documentary and I'm completely falling asleep. It was really interesting. So good. Is it great? Yeah, it's amazing. Oh, really? And it's so interesting. And then I'm just falling asleep on the couch and I'm like, Scott, I gotta go to sleep. I'm gonna fall asleep. And she's like, we're here. I was like, oh God. And the doorbell rang. I freaked out and I went outside. And then my phone goes up at like one in the morning. And she's like, are you still up?

Want to retake it? Because I think they needed something else. Really? Yeah. Oh, no.

No. That's like the worst are you still up text you can get. From Franny? On the scales of you still up text. Yeah, it's not what you think. Can we get a photo with you? Yeah, exactly. Maybe the photo was bad, but I was freaking out. I hope she won. Do you know if she won? I have no idea. She hasn't surfaced yet. It's 9.40 this morning. Well, she went to bed at like 3 in the morning. We should do a smartless scavenger hunt. I would love that. I love a scavenger hunt. I do too. That would be super fun. Yeah. Yeah.

So how would that work? The three of us would be individually against one another? No, no, no. It's not for us. It's for our fans. It's for people who listen to the podcast and then we have a whole... Yeah. God, that sounds like a lot of work. What's the prize?

You're so angry about it. A dop kit. A smart dop kit. Nice. And because you wrapped it up with such a nice bow, Willie, we're going to move on to our guest today. Beautiful. Oh, nice. Who's this? Is it yours today, Shawnee? Yes, yes. That's a delicious segue. Oh, you guys are going to love this. It's so exciting. He got his first big break by tagging along to a friend's audition and improvising his way into the role. It was a big movie.

He has such a thick Liverpool accent that fans don't often believe it's real. He used to tear up the streets as a teenage breakdancer. So did I. And he's been punched, stabbed, and screamed at in more scenes than I can count. But somehow he's the most gentle guy in the room. I met him once on his native soil, the UK, and I've been a fan ever since. It's the ridiculously talented and allegedly intimidating Stephen Graham. Hey!

Steven Graf! Hello. Hello, gentlemen. Good morning. Look at that sweet face who would beat the shit out of me, I'm sure. That was a world-class reveal. It was just so dramatic. It was great. Thank you very much. That was very good.

Now, Will, do you want to get started on the Liverpool Football Club? No, we're going to end on that. We're going to end on the glory on Liverpool. Okay. Because I'm a massive supporter, Stephen. A massive supporter. So we'll get to it. Nice, Will. Can I jump in on the scavenger hunting? Please, go nuts. I always had a mate because we were in LA for a little bit. I heard about this because my wife was there at Guy's house, right? Yeah.

Yes. Guy Ritchie? Close. Yeah. Oh, wow. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My wife's Amanda. Amanda was there. She was probably the one that made your ears bleed just a little bit when you were wondering, why are my ears? No, she was talking quietly in the corner with somebody holding their arm.

Oh, yeah. Or it was, yeah, her. No, I didn't. Yeah, she was lovely. What's the story, Stephen? What happened? It was just during the day, a friend, we went to his sister. She graduated. Correct. And she was telling us about her scavenger hunt that she was going on. And I'll tell you what.

It was a bit risky, some of the stuff that they get really high points for. I know. Oh, really? Like what? Yeah. Like, I mean, eating a bagel off a man's penis. No way. That might be up on that, Jason. Isn't that true? LAUGHTER

Jason, did you win that? Did you win that one, Jason? Well, you know, you need to get a unit that'll actually fit inside that hole. I just had that for breakfast today. Wait, Jason, Amanda was doing this? What's happening? It was a little bit more of a bialy for me, but... Wait, that's crazy. Is that real, like crazy shit like that? Well, here at this party, right, Stephen...

This was also get a picture with a celebrity. And at your party, there were some real celebrities there. Sean, all due respect. Sure, now I get it. We're talking about, you know, the tops in the business like Steven. Sure, yeah. And there was a whole group photo. So they got major points, I'm assuming.

Yeah, because we went outside and took a photo. But it was just when they were explaining to us in the morning what kind of things actually happen and how many points you get for certain things, it just got rather disgusting, I thought. Really? My eldest said to me when he was doing his a couple weeks ago, he said, hey, can I get my nose pierced because I'll get massive? And I was like, no. What? Yeah.

Really? Get your nose pierced for points? Yeah. I think one of the funniest ones was if you make out with one of the parents. Oh, parents. I self-wrote that in. And he left his door open. Forensic handwriting check for Jason on that one. There was also to drink a shot of certain bodily fluids as well. Oh, wow. No, yeah, I was too young.

Jesus Christ. I thought, what the fuck are these young people doing these days? I know. Wait, so Stephen, this is somebody here in LA's house's daughter? No, no, no, no. No, it was a friend's sister who was telling me about, and my sister was telling us about what it was. Now, do you have kids, Stephen? I do, yeah. And thank God mine don't do any of this scavenging and shit. Well, hang on. Are they old enough yet? How old are they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alfie's 18 and Grace is 20.

And so you're saying they never did anything like this in high school? We just don't have that kind of behavior where I come from, Jason. It's normal. That's normal. I don't think they're being honest with you, Stephen. Jason, one of the major things my children are is honest. Now, we do the Mooney, which is like stick your ass out of a window. That's as far as we go. Right, right, right. What do you ever do or against the window, which is a pressed ham? Well, yeah. Yeah.

That was always on a bus, though. That was on a bus, that one. On a bus, we would do the press. Yeah, you'd do that one on a bus. But then the worst thing was you'd do it, and then the car that you did it to would pull alongside you later on in the traffic. We used to do that when we'd go to football. What would be the name if you pressed it against the window and you spread it? What would be the name there? Oh, God. Sliced ham. Yeah, there you go. Thanks.

That's what I'm here for. Stephen, first of all, thanks for being here. By the way, I just found out this morning, I found this out this morning,

First of all, congrats on your recent Gotham Award. And Adolescence is the second most watched show of all time on Netflix. That's awesome. No way. That's amazing. That's crazy. Well deserved. What an accomplishment. I mean, truly, I mean, and I know you've talked about this a lot because I've seen it out there and I watch the show. It's fantastic. You're fantastic. Also the co-creator of the show. Yeah, incredible. Which is no small feat. I mean, for people to understand that,

they might see the credit and the creator and you think like, okay, well, that's just another hat. It's the amount of work and thought and years and preparation that goes into just being the creator of the show and then on top of that doing it, shooting it all in effect live in one shot is so impressive. And I know you've talked ad nauseum about that aspect of doing it, but for people to really understand what it takes to pull off

doing an entire episode, each episode of that program live as if it were happening in, or it was happening in real time. And not just in one location, but getting into vehicles and moving to different locations. Everything that goes in that, the preparation that must have gone into that,

When you came up with the idea of the show, was that part in parcel with it? Was it like, we're going to do this show, tell this story, and we're going to do it this way? Well, to be honest with you, Will, we did a... The whole thing kind of began with me doing a favor for a friend, actually. My mate, Phil Barantini, he was an actor, and he just one day he just phoned me up and he said, look, I really want to direct this.

would you help me out and be in a short film and I said no which is what you should do I said no he was like what I went well go and make your first short film and then we'll have a look and then we'll talk again

good for you I don't want to be part of the experiment of course but it's also Jay you know it's that kind of show me what you can do first exactly so he did he went and he made this beautiful oh also though he was asking me if I would play the trainer to a boxer and the lad who he was going to play the main role was a boxer and an actor and I said well doesn't doesn't

Doesn't Robbie have a trainer? And he was like, yeah. I was like, well, just use Robbie's real fucking trainer. And he was like, well, I went, because he knows what he's doing. I said, has he got a good face? He went, yeah, he looks great. I went, well, cast him then. Yeah. I got shit to do. That's a really good idea. I was like, yeah, just use him. They've got a relationship. So we did. Anyway, and it was really good. But to get to the point,

Matt, who he'd met, the DOP, had this glorious idea of doing a short film in one take, but setting it in a restaurant.

So again, Phil said, look, Matt's had this wonderful idea. I think it'd be really good because Phil used to work in the restaurant industry. He was a chef for a long time. And it was just this concept about a shift at work. And this man going through a bit of, you know, lots of troubles at home and trying to navigate that in work. And also he has his own addictions and stuff. So it was like, look, we'll shoot it in 22 minutes. That's how long it takes going to be. And I was like, that sounds great. How many days? And he went five. I said, I'll give you three.

He was like, oh, okay. I went, we can shoot it in three. So we did. We shot it in three. And the primary purpose of it was to try and use it as a calling card to get Phil an agent. So I give it to my agent. She sent it around the office. And then literally within four to five days, he was having meetings and he then got his agent, Jago. And that was how it happened. So it was all starting to do a favor for a friend. And then Jago said, why don't we turn this into a feature? Yeah.

So we did a little indie film called Boiling Point. And just to go to that, you know, that you never know what can happen from these things, as we all know with this industry. You just don't know. Cut to three years down the line, four years down the line, we're sat at BAFTA and films nominated for Best...

actor. The film's up for best British film. I'm nominated alongside Will Smith and Leonardo DiCaprio and Benedict Cumberbatch, all for doing a mate a favor. And so we had proof of concept with that particular piece. And then we were asked if we would be interested in turning it into a television show. And that's basically how it all began. So then Boiling Point is similar to the story in Adolescence?

It's a completely different story, but it's all shot in that one-take format. And that's more controlled. It's an environment. It's all set in a restaurant, in a kitchen and in a restaurant. And it's this one particular shift. And I think the film is an hour and maybe an hour and 15. And the thinking behind the creative effect...

that you guys were aiming for by having it all intact in one take and not distracting the audience with any cuts whatsoever or coverage or anything like that.

was what? Did you guys ever kind of put words to the purpose behind only one take? Aside from just like the incredible rush, the creative challenge of that. I think that was it, basically, Jason, to be honest with you. It's that kind of trying to grab the audience's attention straight away. And you have kids, I have kids, and we live in an age where

I mean, I don't know if you... We'll be watching a film, but yet they're still looking at the phones. And it's kind of like, put that down. We're trying to watch a film in many ways. Do you know what I mean? So it was that wanting to grab the audience's attention, but also make sure that it wasn't just a gimmick shot. And hopefully, you know, that's what we achieved. But the movement of the camera perpetuates the story. So there's kind of like little things that we came up straight away with.

where Matt decided that we could never just move the camera where it doesn't have a purpose to move. Sure. So what that does then as well is that kind of helps you, you know, it's like we all jump on a train and then we don't get off until we finish. But for people to appreciate, and we all sort of work in this medium so we understand, but to really appreciate the difficulty, not just the...

Not just the closing of the roads, not just the, you know, hiding crew in camera and all that kind of stuff, but the light changes, for instance. By the way, there is that... Am I wrong? Did I... I'm like, did I imagine it? There were light changes when your son...

the actor's name is is it owen uh owen cooper yeah oh owen cooper is brilliant owen cooper when he gets moody did the light darken in in those moments am i right about that or is that obvious or no that was really that was very subtle um and that was also a decision that that matt kind of made right at the very beginning there's moments where it does subtly change um and phil wanted that concept that psychological aspect of of it just changing slightly dramatically within

Was that a lighting cue or was it an iris ride? It's a lighting cue kind of. It's a lighting cue within the police station, within the cell when he's brought into the cell. I mean, think about that, JB. I mean, think about making that call. So you're doing all that stuff. You have all these different, and then in the moment, you've got to get it right. There's basically a lighting cue in the middle of it. There's so many elements happening at once. The logistics. Yeah, the logistics. We'll be right back.

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And now back to the show.

and so the obvious question which i had which how many takes did you do and like how did i mean i'd be so afraid to be the one to screw it up well the beauty of it i mean and it was also look it was beautifully written by jack jack thorne our wonderful writer who constructs the human condition so beautifully and so amazingly and we had that kind of discussion right at the very beginning what it was going to be and how we were going to try

To put this story across without pointing any fingers, but it's just that kind of accountability of parents. You know, maybe the parents are accountable. There's the school system, the education system, the society and the community where they live and also the government and also on top of that, you know, you have the internet, which none of us had when we were kids. So we've never had to navigate that kind of thing. You know, if an incident happened in school, it was kind of finished by the end of school.

when the bell went and then you'd pick it up again the next day. Hopefully it didn't continue too much. But today, if anything happens on their phone straight away, it can carry on. So it's that perpetual kind of fear that some of these kids live in, do you know what I mean, with incidents happening in school. But to go back to that, it was more that kind of, to navigate it the way we did and make sure that everything is bang on. We did, it was a different process. So you spend the first week just working through the script, right?

which we never have that luxury, do we? We never have that luxury to be on set with the writer and the director and just discuss the words. Yeah, it's like theatre. Yeah, well, that's exactly what it is. Sean, it's that beautiful process of being a theatre company and having this brand new script. So we take it to pieces. It's kind of, and I don't mean to be pretentious, but it's kind of like analysing every single word like you would a Chekhov play and understanding the importance of it and why it's there and why it's being said. Right.

So we spend that week just amazed in it as the actors and the company. And then the second week,

We spend the whole week rehearsing with the camera team, the sound department, the ADs, like you said, whether we're dressed in police uniforms or, you know, teachers in the school. So we then spend all of that week having a whole dress rehearsal. And by the end of that week, by that following Friday, we'll go for a little take. We'll see what happens. And then when you get back in on the Monday, we go for two takes a day. So you do one in the morning, about half ten,

have lunch, reset, and then come back again in the afternoon. So it's a beautiful experience. So ultimately, we were looking at hopefully trying to get 10 takes by the end of the week. But episodes two, three, and four were all the final take of each one. So it was that final Friday. So I think take episode two was take 14, right?

Wow. And it was the only time that the drone actually got attached to the, the camera got attached to the drone. It flew up. I don't know if you remember that in the school where it flies up in the air and then it comes down and then it gets taken by the camera department and it comes to where I'm stood with the flowers. It's insane. Now imagine that though, Will. This is, I mean, the wind had been shit so we didn't have a take at all. So it's the final Friday afternoon and it's all going great and I'm sat in the, I'm sat in the, I'm sat in the van and,

being an executive producer, listening to Sarah on the radio. Okay, go. So we've got the kids coming out the thing and I'm listening to it all and it's like, okay, that's good, that's good. And then it's like, okay, drone's attached, the drone's up. And I'm like sitting there going, okay, so the drone's up. And then I see it.

And I see the drone, I'm like, oh wow, okay, so the drone. And then I see the van coming round the corner. I see all the fellas jump out the van. I see Matt run over as the drone. They catch the drone. Matt takes the camera and then I go, oh shit, I'm in it? Oh my God. Get your headphones off. Yeah, I remember that I was in it. And I've grabbed the flowers, composed myself and then I've opened the door and got out. How about that? And we managed to get that take.

But the picture went off when the drone was attached.

So everybody back at base had no idea that we'd completed the scene. Right, right. They were just holding their breath. They were just panicking. Yeah, they didn't know. It's just so... I mean, just aside from just all the logistics, the sequencing and all the planning and all that stuff, the fun of that and the excitement of that, but specifically for this subject matter and the way that the scripts are constructed and this linear storytelling, it's...

A goes to B goes to C goes to D and you're, as you said, on a train and you can, you never get off. You're never tapped on the shoulder by an edit and knocked out of your trance. You're staying in this one place

and you're stuck in the best sense of the word and you can't stop watching and it's just so propulsive and it's such a perfect concept to use this device with. JB, I'll add to that, which is that I think that linear storytelling is something that

that we kind of take for granted and don't, we sort of try to get away from and try to dress stuff up. And there is something because of the way that you told it and there is no cut to distract you, but also because it's happening in real time.

you feel less like you're watching it and more like you're in it. Yeah, exactly. Right, right. And so it's much more immersive in that way. You feel like you're, do you know what I mean? You're not, it's not performative. It's not something that you're not observing. You're actually in it. Yeah. And given the subject matter, it's very, very.

- Visceral. - Yeah, you're so affected. It's like you just step on the audience's neck and you don't get off. It's outstanding. - That was, thank you very much. They're lovely things for you both to say. That was kind of one of the things we thought of at the very beginning. And like I say, Jack's one of my favorite writers of all time. He's a wonderful man. I've worked with him six times. And Jack's kind of idea as we create the story was to grab the audience. But it also, he said what it gave him as a writer was a lot of freedom.

Because a writer is totally, you know, with writing that script, he's totally in kind of control of not just what the story is, but also the rhythm of how it moves and how it's set and the kind of pace of it. Yeah, the music of it. And then you're just amazed, like you said, it's that kind of voyeuristic element, but as well, conventionally...

you know, the story would be told, but it'd be slightly disjointed and you could go to any point in time. But when I said from the very beginning, look, this goes over 13 months and we're just going to grab the audience four times in this story, but it's going to be for an hour. And we allow the... I think what we did as well was...

Like, you know, treating the audience with respect and with intelligence. Let them fill in the gaps. And it doesn't have the answers. And it wasn't open. And as an actor, was it exciting to be inside of the take, of the one hour, knowing that

you know no one can get to you just like theater so like between action and cut you're dictating the pace the rhythm the timing everything it'll never be it'll never be changed it'll never be manipulated by an editor's choice or a director's choice or um a scene won't be cut um so all of your

all of your ideas about how you're going to arc out your performance is completely in your control. Well, you worked it out beforehand though. I mean like... Yeah, but still, but like each... You say you do this multiple times. Yeah, but JV is right. Like once it's rolling... Yeah, exactly. So each take can be completely different. I mean, everybody has to hit their marks because of all the technical sequencing. But...

There's just performance stuff you know is going to be married to this particular version of this episode. This particular take will always be my reaction to her line is always going to be that. It's not going to be taken from take two, married to her reading in take seven. Like it's all unique to that one piece. Completely. It's kind of cool, yeah.

Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head because, you know, as we all know, when you perform, we're not in control of the choices that get made. Yeah. Which we all understand and that's great. Like Frankenstein. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, completely. They take the little bits like you just perfectly described. But with the process of this, and again, you know, back in Sean as well, we have that wonderful rehearsal process like we would with a play. But then you're right, on the day...

No take was identical to the others because what it does, and again, I don't...

I'm a working class kid from Liverpool, do you know what I mean? I can't sound pretentious. By the way, you never run the risk of sounding pretentious. Yes, yes. Just for clarity. All right, good. But it's... Now, give me a moment, because I may do. But it's the most zen I've ever felt as an actor. And it also puts you right in that place. No, you did it. You did do it. Thanks for joining us, Stephen. That's what my microphone's leading on, do you know what I mean? So...

It's not I'm just saying it for shits and giggles. That's me. I love that. So in the same respect, it's that kind of, you know, you're completely, like you said, Will, it's that immersive experience for the audience, but picking up on you, Jay, it is for the actor because you have to be present, truly present. And what it does is, to me, acting is all about listening and reacting.

Oh, I've got to write that down. So you're constantly listening and reacting to what's being, what's in front of you. Well, you know, somebody, as you know, Stephen, I had this discussion with somebody very recently. He said, oh, is it hard to memorize lines? I was talking about this, having lots of dialogue. And Jay, I know you just came off something where you had a lot of dialogue. And the truth is, as we all know,

It's not hard when if you're present and the person says something to you, what you're going to say next makes sense to them. You don't have to memorize because it makes sense what you should say. If the writing's good. You know what I mean? If the writing's good. Yeah, if the writing's good. But that's what I love about your process about it being like theater. You can discuss like, I don't know that I would say that. I would say, I feel like this would make more sense. And that collaborative experience probably made it all the better. Completely.

Yeah, tell me about, wait, so I want to talk about breakdancing. First of all, what's scouse? So like scouse is what? What's scouse?

Scouts is like a terminology for the particular type of person who comes from Liverpool. It's like a subset of... Well, it's like, you know, if you're from Liverpool, you're called a Scouser. If you're from Newcastle, you're called a Geordie. If you're from London, you used to be called a Cockney. Do you know what I mean? Oh, right, right, right. And if you're from Scotland, you're called a Joch.

Why? So it's different kind of saints. Where do all these come from? Like if you're from Beverly Hills, you're called the douche. Right. So, yeah, a scouser is... So a scouser is someone who comes from Liverpool. Who's like a true Liverpoolian who has a, you know, who's right... Yeah, yeah, that's it. Working class, full... Why do people think you're faking the accent when I read that? I have no idea. That's how I've always spoke. So to me... That's so weird. I don't know. It's...

I've never heard that one. All right. Tell me about breakdancing because I did it too and I would –

I would absorb the pain and then walk away like, that was really fun, but I'd been in so much pain. Like, I never did the head spins or anything, but I constantly was breakdancing. It was just... What? God, that's not the same thing you did as kids. Because he did it in Liverpool, and I did it like... I was like... When I read that, I was like, I did that too. That's so crazy. Where was you when you did your breakdancing? Oh, anywhere. Anywhere there's a... A mall. A fucking dinner theater. Yeah.

Anywhere there was a piece of cardboard, I would just go, watch this. We even bought lino. So, you know, the lino that people used to put in the kitchens back in the 80s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We used to carry our own bit of lino. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like back in the days of Electro 7 and Grandmaster Flash and Melly Mel and The Furies 5 and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

And we just, yeah, I don't know, it was just this whole thing that just popped up. Obviously, it came over from America and it ended up in a little town where I'm from, Kirby. And we used to go and do it in the town centre. We'd...

I don't even, because we couldn't watch videos or nothing like that to work out what they were doing. So I don't even know how we, I think it got past that. But now it's an Olympic sport. Yeah. Isn't that funny? Yeah, that video. Because it is. It's amazing, isn't it? It's pretty funny. It's the next level. How were the outfits? Were you proud of your outfits and your hairdos? Yeah, I used to have a, I had a shiny shell suit back in the day. Oh my God. Something that you could spin on, do you know what I mean? Sure. And the parachute pants and like, yeah.

Sean, were you in like an Adidas track suit or were you like MC Hammer pants? No, no. But I did have parachute pants because I thought they were really cool. Yeah.

I used to have a really lovely Velour Adidas. Oh, yeah. Oh, nice. Velour. Wear that straight to bed. Yeah. It's lovely. So you grew up in Liverpool or outside of Liverpool. Kirkby, where's Kirkby? Kirkby, it's just kind of like 35 minutes from the city centre. Do you know, Stephen, you must know John Bishop.

Not personally, but I've... Not personally? No, I've met him a couple of times socially, but I don't know him personally, yeah. Okay, so that's the guy you did the film that's based on, Willie? Yes, who's also a scouser. Yeah, the film that we did is based on his life, yeah, his story. When's this film coming out? But I thought you would...

Fairly soon. Yeah, we just, I met John by chance and he told me a story of how he became a stand-up comedian, which is a really kind of an interesting story. And he kind of by mistake, and he was going, he was separated from his wife and they were getting divorced and he went to do stand-up. He went to go for a drink and they were charging a cover because it was open mic night and he put his name down just so he could get in and they called him and he had a few and he went up and just started doing stand-up.

And then it was quite cathartic and he started going back and he didn't tell anybody. And that's how he got into stand-up. Will, did you ever discuss doing it as him and doing the whole Liverpool accent and anything? Not really because we didn't want it to be too much, you know, too like Billy Elliot or Full Monty. You know what I mean? Like all due respect to those movies. We just wanted to tell a difference. So we set it in New York, Stephen, in New York.

I wrote it with an Englishman with Mark Chappell and Bradley Cooper directed and Bradley's in it with me as well. Will, do you think you could do a Liverpool accent? Yeah, you can. No, it's tough. It's a tricky one. It is quite tricky. Yeah, because you hear him say, it's a tricky one. Like there's a kind of like an almost like an... See, but then he sounds a little bit like Miss Doubtfire there. It's a tricky one, children.

Let's go. No, we're going to speak later. It's a very difficult accent. That's why I just kind of, I leave it alone, that one. It sounds like there's a little bit of Scottish in there. Is Liverpool north?

Yes. Yeah, it is. And it's kind of, I think it's an amalgamation of Irish, Scottish, but also kind of because of the docks and the pollution, it's kind of to do with nasal and throat kind of extractions or whatever. Do you know what I mean? Will's got that down. There's a science behind it. There are a lot of Irish people who immigrated to Liverpool. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, because it sounds a little bit Irish. Well, a lot of Scousers I say, Scousers are just lazy artists that couldn't be arsed going through America. When the boat came, they just stayed at Liverpool and didn't move forward. Do you know what I mean? Now, the fellas in the Beatles, did they have famously thick Liverpool accents? But back then, the accents were slightly different. Really? And obviously, it's changed. But yeah, all of them, Paul...

Ringgold, Leon and George, George, obviously, they all have that Liverpool accent. But theirs was a lot more kind of singy at the time. Do you know what I mean? Right, right. It's more melodical and like nice little notes and things. That's the go-to when anybody does an impression of a Liverpool. Yeah. So wait, so growing up there, what was your window to want to be an actor when you were breakdancing? You're like, wait, if I'm not a breakdancer, I'm going to be a...

For me, it was really interesting because when I was about, I think, 11, we were doing a play in school. And across the road from my Nana's house, a wonderful man called Drew Schofield lived there. And he was an actor and he was on television and he was on a show called Scully, which was really popular. And that was about a young man who had this dream and this fantasy of playing for Liverpool.

And he was the lead role in that. And he lived across the road from my nana's house. And no one in my family was ever into the arts or anything like that, you know what I mean? Me and my dad used to go to the gallery and stuff like that and everything, and heavily into films. My dad got me right into films when I was a young lad. But no one had done anything like that. But I could see Drew across the road, and he was on the telly every week. So it made me realise that it was a possibility. And he came to watch a play we did in school.

His nephew was in the same play. And at the end of it, he said to my mom and dad, he said, look, I think Stephen's really talented. You should look at maybe taking him to a youth theater or something. Thank God, you know what I mean? I did. I went to the Everyman Youth Theater and that's kind of where it all started. Did you ever think along the way in high school, maybe I should do my studies in such a way where I can get into a college and maybe study up on another career? Was there ever a backup?

There wasn't, but there was also that kind of... My intention was to go to university and, you know, if I couldn't make it as an actor, but give it a go, then I would hopefully fall into being a teacher.

That was kind of the other role I was looking at and the other way of going. Really? Like an elementary teacher that teaches all subjects or specializing in one in high school or college? No, just teaching drama in like a high school. Do you know what I mean? Because over here we have GCSEs and stuff and that kind of. So that secondary school, being a drama teacher, that was another possibility that I looked at. Or if not, believe it or not, I wanted to be a fireman.

Yeah. Sure, why not? Same. Now, wait, but this is pretty wild. Like, I had no idea. Be with a fireman? Be with a fireman. What did you say? No, no, it's the firemen and village people, that kind. Yeah. That's right. I keep forgetting that's what it is. Wait, your dad, your biological dad was Jamaican. My granddad was from Jamaica, yeah.

And your stepdad, African-American. Yes, yes, Pops. That's awesome. Yeah, and Pops, you know, has been there since I was 10, so he's the man that's raised me. He's my father. And did you ever talk to your biological dad? I mean, when he was... Yeah, yeah, you know, we haven't spoken for a while. There's no animosity there, you know. I suppose kind of through that...

But he didn't... Sean, are you familiar with this area? Yes, yes. Oh, God, hang on. I've got to get that. Dad calling. One second. Hello? Sometimes you grow apart, don't you? You know what I mean, in many ways. Yeah, well, sometimes you just drive away. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's the running joke, Stephen, that my dad left when I was five. Anyway, so...

Okay, so, and you have siblings. And did he really leave when he was five? Oh, yeah, he spun the wheels. He just threw it in drive, and there was a screech. They didn't see any warning signs, I mean, other than he bought a sports car, a two-seater sports car with five kids. No, no, no, wait a minute. Let's be serious for a second. Did he just say, I'm just going to go to shop, I'll be back in a minute? Yeah, he wanted to get some milk. Yeah.

He was in a Korean war, and he came back and he married my mom. A Korean war or the Korean war? The Korean war. Okay. It was just one of them. He was in the army. And then he came back and he married my mom and had five kids and said, this isn't for me. Back to Korea? Yeah. I don't know where. This isn't for me. I'd rather be back in a war theater than be part of this. Shit. So we... Hang on. So...

Five? Yeah. And then he made the decision to fuck off. Yeah. Wow. Selfish bastard. If you spend a lot of time with Sean, it'll make sense. No, wait, wait. Sean, what number are you within that five? Five.

What? What number are you within that five? Are you the first? Oh, I'm the youngest. I'm the youngest. Yeah, he's the one that really sealed the deal. Fuck me. Well, he stayed for the first four, Sean. Yeah, you were the one. I'm sorry, mate. The bank on the money there. I mean, he put up with four and he was around. As soon as you came, it was like, get the fuck out of here. Sean, do you think it was the break dancing? Do you think that was the plan? Maybe. He drove him to the Miata lot. I ain't raising any kid that does that. Sean, you really were the straw that brought the camels back, weren't you?

It really was. You get a lot of therapy now, though, Sean. Oh, God, I love it. Totally, I love it. Yeah, you know what? I got to say, of all the jokes that we do about it, Sean is so in front of this trauma, if you will, in a way that you talk about it in such a very healthy way, which is why we do joke about it for our listeners because sometimes people are like, man, you guys are really rough on Sean. No, I mean, the way that we deal with stuff, all of us, is by laughing about it. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

And it's earned laughter because you've been through all the processing and all the therapy. That's right. And now you've landed in the laughter. And I don't know, Stephen, I grew up Irish Catholic, so we stuffed everything. So my therapy is to talk about the shit that I wasn't allowed to talk about when I was a kid. Exactly. And so it feels good to do. That's why I talk about my mom's fake eye. Yeah, Stephen, so we can move over to the mother now. You're with her, just the fake eyeball. Yeah, yeah. Ad nauseum. We were talking about it. Stephen just was like, what? What?

His sister, we were on tour and his sister brought the eyeball out on stage and opened it in a box and stuff and we took it out. It was a lot of fun. Steve doesn't know whether we're kidding or not. It's true. So your mom had a fake eyeball? Yeah, we were never allowed to ask about it.

- Except when she's-- - Through a glass eye then. Yeah, through a glass eye. How did she lose it? Nobody knows. She still can't find it. She had cancer when she was two years old. And so they had to take her eyeball out. Anyway, it's a hilarious story. Is your mom still alive? Nobody knows again. No, she passed away-- No, but the eye is. No, she passed away-- Oh, God.

Six years ago, maybe seven years ago. Anyway, I want to talk about... The irony that you don't remember in that she... Well, I know she... It was January of 2021. No, 2019, maybe? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But look how well balanced you are. I know. Whatever it is, you did a nice young boy. No, no. I mean it. The way that you talk about it, that you're so open about it and that you have come out the other side, as JB said, and done all the work. It is very healthy. Well, thank you. It's very nice. To be honest, it is inspiring. We'll be right back.

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Wait, so you had brothers and sisters growing up, yes? And were they interested in what you did or no? Not really, no. They don't do anything near what you do? My life's very complicated because with that biological father, similar to yours, he went off and he had four children to four different women. Wow. Yeah.

But, you know, look, everyone's east of their own. I'm all right now. I'm out the other side of it. Are you an only child from... No, I'm not, because my mum and pops, they had Nathan, who there's a 20-year gap between me and Nathan. Older or younger? He's my little brother. I'm 20 years older than him. My mum had me when she was 20, and she had our kid when she was 40.

Wow. So the beauty of that, though, is I had all my time with my mum, who, God bless her soul, I adored. And all that time with Pops, who, you know, I loved to bits, who raised me. Like I said, you know, he taught me about my history, Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, Toussaint Louverture, all of those things about my historical, you know, background and where my origins are from.

So I was given all of that beautiful information by him. So I was always educated in that respect. And then when I was ready to leave to go to university at the age of 20, Nathan was born. So we never had any of that sibling rivalry. And I love our Nathan to bits. You know, technically, look, he could have been my child. You know what I mean? That kind of thing. That age difference is there.

But it's a wonderful relationship I have with Nathan and it's a beautiful relationship I have with my dad who's there for my kids massively. I love that expression, our Nathan, that you get. Like my friend who grew up in sort of the West Country, they say like our Mark. Yeah. You know, I love that. There's something really endearing about it. The inclusiveness of it and, you know, it's...

Sweet. I mean, my dad, sorry, just to pick up on that point as well, when I was about 14 and I said, I think I really want to be an actor.

Dad was like, all right, come on, let's go. And I was like, what? And he was like, do you want to do it properly? And I was like, yeah. So he took me to the video shop. Remember the old-fashioned video shops where you go into like a library? Yeah, Blockbuster Video. It was before Blockbuster even. This was just the local video shops, just the little independent ones. And we went in and we looked and he picked these three films. And it was, he picked The Deer Hunter.

The Godfather and Taxi Driver. And then we went home and he was like, right, we're going to watch these. This is how you do it properly. Let's watch these films. And we spent the whole weekend re-watching those three films. Which is your favourite from those three? It's a tricky one, isn't it? I love The Deer Hunter. I love The Deer Hunter. Yeah.

I love that. And then when you were in your 20s, you were in gang... Like, 14 years old, you said you wanted to be in it. Six years later, you're in Gangs of New York with Martin Scorsese. I mean, that's crazy. That was so fast. Another incredible film. Mind-blowing as well to be a part of. What was that like from the moment that you knew that it was a project that was happening to getting an audition to being there? Well, it was...

I got the call from my agent and said, right, we need you to come in and do a read and put yourself on tape. And so I went into London and I met Ellen Lewis, who's wonderful. We just had a really lovely time and I read these couple of scenes and then I went away. And it was one of them, you know, where you don't air for like four or five weeks later and you kind of go, it's over, there's no chance. So...

As a job and actor and a young lad, I had to go for this. We've all done it, lads. Let's be honest. I had to go for this bag of shit audition. And I really didn't want to go. It was fucking awful. But I'm on the train. I'm sweating. I'm on my way into London. You know, you've got to pay the rent, haven't you? You've got to eat. So I'm there and I'm like, and I'm going through this fucking awful script. And I'm like, okay, all right, yeah. Having a coffee. And then the next minute my phone goes.

And it was my agent, Jane, and she said to him, she said, are you sitting down? I was like, yeah, I'm sitting down. She went, right, okay, you've got that part in Gangs of New York. I was like, what? She went, yeah, they came back today, you've got to fly to Italy. I'd say this was Friday, you've got to fly to Italy on Monday. Marty wants to sit down and talk to you and go through the character. And I was like, what?

I was made up. But then the best bit was I went, does that mean I don't have to go for this audition now? No, you don't have to go for that. I was like, fuck that. And so then I flew out there and we met and it was wonderful. It was just a wonderful experience. Yeah, that's great. That's when I became friends with Leo as well. Yeah, Leo. And there was some story about a golf cart or something. We were on a golf cart and we were on the set. Yeah, I tipped the golf cart over and I nearly broke his leg. Oh, okay, okay.

Yeah, you can get really messed up on those things. Yeah.

that you don't realize. They're dangerous. I think if you go to my Wikipedia page and you look at my filmography, Stephen, they all fall under the category of you have to pay the rent. For what it's worth. Okay. And then this is wild. So one of the three movies you mentioned was The Godfather. And then you're with Pacino, you know, in The Irishman. Well, can you imagine that phone call to me, Dad? I mean, that's incredible. That's incredible. What it...

I had to go to... It was a wonderful, wonderful story. I was doing a little series over here called The Virtues with Shane Meadows and it was a wonderful experience. And on the Friday, I had to fly to New York to go to Marty's house to meet Robert De Niro because Rob was an exec and you had to meet him and he wanted to make sure that I was right and things like that. So...

So you can imagine how nervous I was and I had to fly to New York. So I finished work, I think, first thing Monday, they let me go early. So I had to fly out and then I got there. Literally, I had to land, go to Marty's house and...

And then I met, I'm sitting there and then Bob comes up and he's got his little cap on and he's got the paper underneath his arm and a pair of shorts and a little baggy shirt. And he's like, hey. And it was unbelievable. It was amazing. We had a wonderful afternoon. But Ellen had said to me, look, he doesn't really talk much. So, and I'm thinking, oh shit. She's like, so you might have to make some conversation. I'm like, okay. Anyway, cut to, we were there for about two and a half hours.

And then they went like, right, okay, you best go. And then I said, have I got the part? I can't leave now without knowing if I've got the part. And then Bob was like, just give us a minute. Go on, just give us a minute. And I was like, oh, shit, okay, I've tried my hardest. I don't know if this is going to work. I hope so. I don't know if he likes me. First of all, he was like, you're not Italian. I'm like, no, I'm not Italian. And so then I come back in and I sit there and he goes, sit down, sit down. I'll let Marty tell you. And then Marty was like, okay, kid. So, uh...

"Do you want to do this?" And I was like, "Of course!" And then I got a hug off them. And I felt like, you know in all the films, I felt like I was a made man, do you know what I mean? - Or you were about to be killed. - Yeah, or I'd be taken out the back and put two in the head. And then,

You can imagine that phone call to my dad and the pride gets me emotional just thinking about it a little bit. You know, I'm a young kid from a block of flats, a young mixed race kid who had a dream to be an actor. And my dad took me to that video shop, like you say, Sean, and the next minute I'm phoning him up saying, I'm going to be in a film with Robert De Niro and Al Pacino and being directed by Mark Scorsese. Yeah, that's so cool.

That's really cool. Oh, man. It's one of those beautiful stories. And Martin Scorsese is famous for many things, one of which, though, is his kindness and his warmth and his spirit on set. And you've had the chance to work with him at least twice. Three occasions. Wow.

Yeah, good for you. Yeah, it's really cool. And then when I met you, Stephen, at the Graham Norton show just in February, and you were so, I mean, I just fucking loved you right away. You were so normal and kind. That's such a fun show. They should air that here. Stephen, what did you think of Sean? I mean, he said that about you. And be honest. And be brutally honest. I'm sorry.

He was lovely. He was wonderful. He was like a ray of sunshine. Sean was a ray of sunshine. Yeah, he was lovely. Our Sean. Your Sean. See, look, see the end here and there. Your Sean was lovely. I found him really wonderful. Do you know what I mean? He was very gregarious. It was lovely. And afterwards, I was like, oh, my God, you've got to come on the show. So it's nice of you to do that. Yeah, he did. But wait, you were promoting a movie where you trained to be this boxer.

And the movie's called A Thousand Blows. It was yet a TV series on Disney, A Thousand Blows, yeah, set in the 1800s, that one. And I haven't seen it yet, but those clips, I was like, that looks incredible. Oh, go ahead, A Thousand Blows. No, Sean, Jason and I are just looking at each other. Who's got the joke here? Who wants to go on A Thousand Blows? Do you have it? I don't have it yet. I'm still writing it. Well, if you're there, go ahead.

See, my missus went, as soon as he said, right, a thousand blows, my missus went, sounds a bit like a top shelfer. I mean, it's just, it's like, it's like, Sean, right? It's like my summer in, Sean Hayes, my summer in Mykonos. A thousand blows. So. My timeshare on Fire Island. I imagine it's different than that, Stephen. Yeah.

The movie? Are you, are you, did you train? Did you, did you train as a fighter? Yes, I trained. Oh, sorry, you're asking him. Yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah, I did, Will, yeah. Yeah, I did a lot of boxing and shit loads of protein and did, yeah, it was great. I had six months and I got into the best shape I've ever been in. Yeah, I mean, you're very young. I mean, you're not 20, but you're still pretty young. I'm 51, yeah. Yeah, to do all that training at 51, that's crazy.

crazy like you were you a boxing fan or are you uh yeah yeah i've always been a boxing fan yeah yeah and how do you feel about where boxing is now or have you have you transferred over to ufc or are you still a purist with the box i like ufc um i just i just i just i'm not a hundred percent on the kind of look it's attracting audiences i get that i understand that but i think it's gone a little bit sensationalist now um and they're kind of i'm a i'm i'm

I'm more of a fan of the pure art of pugilism, do you know what I mean? And the belts. And I feel like the belts are important and to be number one in the world or a world champion is an important thing to be, do you know what I mean? I'm going to say something that's maybe unpopular, which is that my problem with the MMA in general is that there is a, to me anyway, there is a kind of a darkness around it that I find...

you know, around the culture of it that I find really... -Almost a bloodlust. -Yeah. There's something about it. Boxing, you get that is sort of the purity, right, of the sweet science, or is that what they call it? Right? And that's sort of the art of it. And of course, there's a ton of art to MMA, and I'm not disparaging what the athletes do. But the sort of the culture around it, to me, there's a... I don't know, there's a sort of a darkness to it.

Just me. I mean, starting with them doing it all in a cage. Yeah. The office of it. But it's still, it's really fascinating. And it's the multiple disciplines inside that cage too. It's kind of cool. So yeah, I'm conflicted on it myself. And to me though, one of my favorites is Paddy the Baddie, who is also a Scouser. He's amazing. He's great. He's fantastic. Do you guys know this guy? He's so funny. He's so funny.

Is he a boxer? He's an MMA fighter. He's an MMA fighter. He's so professional.

profoundly funny to me every time I see him god he's good and he's tough as nails yeah he's amazing he's brutal but he also doesn't take himself too seriously at all and I love the kind of showmanship of that look Ali was the best showman we ever had but you know he also and you go yeah but Ali respected the other fighters no he didn't no if you listen to some of the things he used to say especially to George Foreman some of the things he said to him was

and I'll do a horrific... And Paddy the Batty, he uses that thing that you guys, the Scousers do of calling everybody lad and putting lad in everywhere. And there's something sort of hilariously disparaging when you use the term lad, yeah? Yeah.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Have a look at him, Jay. Some of his videos, he's really funny as well. Oh, my God. He's very sharp. What weight class is he? I'm not too sure. It might be lightweight. Oh, yeah? Yeah. All your tattoos, did you have to... Did you just...

not cover them up and or no i did i did yeah which is that was you spend like 50 minutes in this year getting painted when we did the thing yeah it's it's yeah and they don't come off in the shower the the cover up and it's just gonna be oh really and you had you have a a tattoo of your nan or for your nanny or something and i i never heard this term a fairy cake we just call it a cupcake yeah i mean no my nana did she used to when we were kids she used to make fairy cakes

Cupcakes. Yeah, cupcakes. Cupcakes, okay. Yeah, fair. Nothing on fairy cake, Will, no? I'm sorry, GB? No. No? I'll give you a couple more minutes. Go ahead. Continue with the interview. I never heard that before. I never heard fairy cake. No, no, no, no. Obviously not a lot of Americans have. Hey, fairy cakes, did you...

So then what is your – when you're not doing these incredible projects, Stephen, what is something – what is your primary hobby? It's not – I bet it's not boxing. What is something that occupies your time that people might be surprised about? Um –

Oh, meditation. Yes? Great. Meditation. I love that. I'm constantly trying to learn how to do that without falling asleep. That's the key. It's right on the edge. No, just bang on the door and you may laugh, but that's the key, yeah. The key is not to fall asleep. There's a wonderful practitioner called Mooji. Yeah.

if you get a chance, go on YouTube, type in Muji and have a listen to him. His voice is fantastic. But his pointings and his teachings are wonderful. And he always says, you know, look, the basic aim is to try not to fall asleep in many ways with meditation. But in the same, because that's, but

but if you think about it when the head shuts off most of the time is when you're asleep yeah right you know but that's when the subconscious comes into effect but predominantly it's that kind of trying to stop the white noise and that constant pounding of the head to step out but it's just allowing it to

oh, where have I gone yet? It's just allowing it to be. It's trying to get your brain to think about nothing, right? But then that's the key, Will. Sorry, Jason, that's the key, isn't it? We're trying to get the brain to think about nothing. And in that trying, you're already doing. So it's that kind of just letting the clouds pass. Yeah, I love that. Do you know what else I've got into? If you thought...

ice baths, but not in an egotistical sense. Just that kind of like maybe two, if you do two minutes, it does everything your body needs physiologically. Will does it all the time. I've been doing it for 10 years. I've been doing it for 10 years and it's been a game changer for me, man. Absolute game changer. And it is, that is, I don't, I wish I could meditate like JB. I've thought about it. I've sort of, I've gotten apps before and I've tried it and I've had, and I remember somebody saying to me once, like imagine a stream of,

and leaves are falling off the stream, and each thought is like a leaf, and then just let it go with it a little bit, and then you can just reset back to another thing. Yes, I just started doing it. And it does work, but I do it in the cold. I do. I get in that thing where I just, I'm like, I'm going to do three minutes, and I just think about my breathing, think about my breathing, and then, yeah. When I first started doing, when I first started meditating, this is, I'm talking about a month ago.

like really doing it, I start every single time I would do it, I'd start to cry because my brain works overtime constantly from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed. I'm like constantly thinking about blah, blah, blah. And it's going 80 miles an hour from anxiety or whatever. And then, so I didn't, I didn't, and sugar. And I didn't know what to do with myself when I'm still. So I would just start welling up and I was like, but now I'm not anymore. That's

That's good. That's it. Oh, yeah, you seem fixed for sure. You nailed it. Look, you can be mindful with anything you do. You don't have to, the art of it itself is the art. The practices are the art. Do you know what I mean? At least you're taking that time. You also might be out of tears, Sean. You might just be rebuilding the well. This is true. But there is that thing of also like when you're doing it and then you hear like you, you,

you isolate the sound of the refrigerator running or whatever, and that's okay. Then think about that. Then focus on that. Then allow those things. And it's just, it's the allowing. It's the constant. And then when you're done with the meditation, you really do feel calmer and more focused and present. Right.

Have you ever tried TM? Steven, have you ever tried TM? I've wanted to do that. What is that? Oh, transcendental. What's the difference? Yeah, I don't really know, but I guess that that's a different, it's a different practice, the transcendental meditation. That was all that kind of David Lynch skill, wasn't it, and everything? Well,

Was it? Yeah, I think so. Steven, we've taken up way too much of your time. Thank you for being here. Not enough of your time. God, I could talk to you forever. I know, I love you. I agree. Where are you right now and what are you going to do the rest of the day? I am in New York. We got here on Monday and then...

Seth Meyers I think we're doing today this afternoon later on and then I'm going to go home and to answer your question as well Jason my family is my favourite thing to do in the whole world I feel very blessed and very I'm very lucky and I'm full of gratitude that I have the most amazing wife and two gorgeous kids I love them to bits that's so great I love that well we love you thank you for being here Steve thank you Steve huge fan

I'm a huge fan of yours, man. Keep going. Keep going. Thank you. All right, my friend. Thanks for doing this. How do they say goodbye in Liverpool? I don't know. Ta-da. Ta-da. Ta-da. Ta-da. Ta-da. Ta-da. Ta-da. Ta-da. Enjoy the rest of your day. See you, bud. You too. Take care. Thank you. Cheers. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

Sean, what a guest. I love him. I mean, when I met him at the Graham Norton show, I was like, oh, I totally know Stephen Graham. Like, I know his work. But you never know how anybody is. And I met him. We ended up just talking and talking. And I'm like, he's such a great human being. A nice spirit. Great vibe. Yeah. And so talented. And so many things...

That we all know, you know, it's so many big movies and TV shows. Yeah, she's been a really high level character actor for a long, long time. Like you'd probably like, if you like put one of your favorite movies on, you haven't watched for a while, you go, oh, there he is. Oh, there's Stephen Graham, yeah. Another great example, we were talking about recently of somebody who had talent, came from,

didn't come from an environment that was conducive to making his way into Shobas and had a mentor, had somebody who said, hey, this kid's great. He should go here. And just another, you know. Yeah, we've talked about it before. You need that next stage of people that believe in you after your parents. Yeah. I'm still looking. Oh, I know. Listen, I believe in you. Sean, look at me. I'm looking at you. Hey.

Yeah. You're great. Oh, no, your eyes are crossing. Your eyes are crossing. I'm trying to find you. I'm trying to find you. So... Jason. Here we go. Jason and Will. I had... I ordered... Remember when I told you I was in Ojai? Oh, my God. You know what the worst part is? It's just the fucking... It's his face. So... I'd love to watch you change lanes on the highway. You must put your car into a four-wheel slide when you do it.

I love, I'm still laughing at, so Fairy Kicks, listen, so no, I really did order some when I was in Ohio last weekend. I ordered some tea and it was, it was hibiscus tea. Yeah, okay. So the opposite of hibiscus tea would. Chamomile?

Are you trying to get us to say bybiscuits? Bybiscuits, yeah. Well, that's not a thing. That's not a word. We do that sometimes where it's not the thing. No, no, sorry, Jay. I deciphered that. I mean, we almost needed the Enigma machine for that. I was nowhere near. I can't believe you got that. I was nowhere near that. Bybiscuits. Okay, let me do another one. We know what we just planted in the backyard. Did you see him click the file? No.

This is what you do during the day. I was in the backyard and we planted some hydrangeas. Okay. Okay. And so after we were done and I walked away, I said, bye, dranges. That one's not bad. Jesus Christ. Sorry, listener. We'll see you next time. Smart. Less. Smart. Less.

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