From Washington: Inside Operation Midnight Hammer
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Sunday, June 29th, 2025. I'm Jared Halpern. U.S. airstrikes in Iran were more than a decade in the making. A former commander of CENTCOM explains why President Trump chose now to attack. The situation that President Trump, I think our administration was presented here was, hey, listen, the Israelis have done a lot of

a lot of the legwork here. They've reduced a lot of the threat, and this is the opportunity. And those airstrikes are renewing concerns of cyber attacks from adversaries like Iran. Iran and their current regime being in trouble is not good for them. At the same time, they would like to see the United States dragged into something wider so they, you know, so we get distracted from Ukraine.

They have an interest in pushing disinformation, and they're going to utilize their really advanced capabilities to do that. This is the Fox News Rundown from Washington. When U.S. bombers dropped massive bunker busters on a pair of nuclear facilities in Iran, they carried out a mission that military planners had been considering for more than a decade. For more than 15 years, this officer and his teammate lived in

and breathed this single target, Fordow, a critical element of Iran's covert nuclear weapons program. General Dan Kaine, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, detailed an officer with the Defense Threats Reduction Agency who was briefed in a secret location about a major construction project in the mountains of Iran. Soon joined by another teammate, Kaine says the two studied the geology.

and learned everything that was going in and out of the facility. And along the way, they realized we did not have a weapon that could adequately strike and kill this target. That, the general says, led to the development of the GBU-57, the massive ordnance designed to break through deep bunkers

They accomplished hundreds of test shots and dropped many full-scale weapons against extremely realistic targets for a single purpose. Kill this target at the time and place of our nation's choosing. That time came this month when President Trump ordered B-2 stealths to drop 14 of those bombs on Fordow and Natanz.

Retired Army General Joseph Votel knows what went into those strikes. He was the commander of CENTCOM from 2016 to 2019. Before that, he was the commander of U.S. Special Forces. We spoke last week about the military strikes on Iran and what we've learned since about what's left of the country's nuclear program. Well, you know, it was 2009 or 2010 when we kind of first discovered what they were doing at Fordow, and that became...

that we became aware of that. And at the time, that would have been when General Petraeus was the CENTCOM commander. And I certainly know working with CENTCOM at that time, I mean, they were paying very, very close attention to this. And obviously, we were really concerned about what Iran was going to do. So yeah, the concern about

about this facility, about the work that Iran was doing and our need to understand it goes back a long, long way. And I'm glad that General Kane called us out. I think these guys are really the unsung heroes of this. Understanding that and then using that intelligence to kind of help develop a capability that could

We hope to destroy it. I want to talk to you a little about that aspect, but going back to your time as a commander of CENTCOM, were there, you know, you had, I guess, these plans, as you said, kind of on the books, and it was an ongoing process. Were there concerns about carrying out an operation like this in previous administrations?

Well, I think there always is. I mean, these steps are significant steps that are being taken here. And so there has to be careful consideration to all of them. I mean, I don't think President Trump rushed into this either. I mean, I think he

carefully consider the situation that he was in and the ramifications of all of this. And I think as has been pretty well documented that taking the first step is important, but you also have to think through the follow-on steps.

with all of that. So yeah, I think that there's, I mean, I think it's been thought of very, very deliberately. There's no doubt that the, that for example, the Obama administration had a different, had a different approach to this. Their approach was, was very heavily focused around negotiations and trying to reduce the threat or the need to take this kind of action through, you know, through the establishment of the so-called JCPOA. And, you know, that was, that was their policy. That was their approach. So,

So, yeah, I mean, I think there have been different approaches over time that we've had that are reflective of the policies that are in place today.

you know, for the different administrations. Would it have been possible for the B-2s and some of these fighter jets that were involved in this operation to have done that effectively without the, what was it, about 10 days of Israeli airstrikes that seemed to really diminish, if not totally decapitate the Iranian air defenses?

Yeah, well, a big part of the plan, of course, would be that we would have to do that ourselves. And that's what I think made the decision-making so weighty in this case. Because that's the dangerous part, right? It's that first wave. No, that's the hard part. I mean, I'm not minimizing anything that— No, I understand. But having planes go in there without—

eliminating the threat. And so I think that's why I was kind of highlighted and maybe covered as

Completely as they had, but the situation that President Trump, I think our administration was presented here was, hey, listen, the Israelis have done a lot of the legwork here. They've reduced a lot of the threat, and this is the opportunity. And so very strong messaging to the Iranian regime, hey, this is the time to give this up right now. If you don't, we may do it ourselves.

So, yeah, I think the situation is different. The hard part is oftentimes is getting there. And of course, the Israelis do a lot of the heavy lifting on that. Tell me a little bit what you can about how these B-2s operate. They fly centrally around the world nonstop. Right.

These bombs, I imagine, are very heavy. They can't carry as much fuel. What goes into an operation like this? I mean, this is an air refueling operation. This is a logistics operation. And my understanding is they didn't talk much on the radios while they were doing any of this. Yeah. So, you know, first off, I just I'll just caveat everything here, Jared, and remind you that I'm an infantry officer, an Army infantry officer, so.

I don't buy these things. I had the great honor of being a combatant commander, so I had an appreciation for these capabilities, certainly, and I have deep respect for our crews and our commanders that run these organizations. But yeah, what goes into this, I mean, some of the decisions on this, I mean, I don't

I think revolve around the fact that whether we deploy them from the United States and we deploy them the forward locations and then use those forward locations to launch into the area. But, you know, essentially, I mean, these are 30,000 pound bombs. Each of the aircraft we're carrying two, so 60,000 pounds that they're transporting. That's certainly going to impact

The amount of fuel that they can take on and how long they can go. So a critical aspect of deploying these aircraft is the refueling piece. I mean, they probably went through multiple refuelings to get into the area of operations. Of course, those are not without risk factors.

I've been on aircraft that have been refueling. The capabilities of our pilots make it look pretty routine, but it's anything but routine for aircraft to link up in the middle of the night,

at 30 or 40,000 feet altitude and then pass fuel from one aircraft to another and do that. And the space they have to do that in is just inches or very few square feet here that they have to be accurate on. So it's very, very difficult in terms of doing that. And of course, they do operate on what I would kind of describe as radio silence or minimized communications.

Part of the stealth capabilities is the ability to move without having to transmit, to do other things here that draw attention to us. So yeah, and this is something they trained for and certainly something they exhibited in this. So extraordinary capability here, just really kind of a one-off.

Nobody else really has this kind of capability, but fortunately we do, and these guys really were able to leverage this very unique capability to perform this mission. What do you know about these bunker-busting bombs that were used on these nuclear sites?

Well, I think what we know is what actually most Americans know now about them is that, you know, they were specially purpose-built for the mission for which they were employed. They're made of special metal, steel alloys that are designed to penetrate metal.

you know, earth and cement and other impediments that they might get through and get to a deep, deep penetration. And then once the munition comes to rest is when the fuse ignites the munitions and the 5,000, 5,000 to 6,000 pounds of explosive material that is in these munitions and that detonates.

So, you know, that's kind of how the thing works. I think everybody has kind of seen a lot of diagrams of that, and they probably understand it about as well as anybody does now. But again, it's just, I mean, this is really, I think, a testament to American engineering and to our analysts that understood what had to be overcome to deliver these bombs so they could be as effective as they apparently have been.

I know that there is obviously a lot of questions that have been asked this week about, you know, what is left of the capabilities of Iran and its nuclear program. You know, battlefield or combat assessments, I imagine, take time, probably made even more challenging in a situation like this where we wouldn't have boots on the ground, right? How does CENTCOM kind of determine the success or not success? I think everybody views this as successful, but the...

I guess, how do you assess kind of how big a bomb was or how successful that operation was? Yeah, yeah. I think it's a great question. And I'm really glad to kind of see the discussion on this because I think it helps educate the public about, you know, what the military does. But, you know, the way that CENTCOM, the way the military organizations do this and kind of a

post after a strike, after we conduct a strike. We actually have a fairly well-developed process for how we do this. I hate to be always talking about processes, but it very much is a process. And I think what's important to understand is that the military is going to go through that process. So phase one of the process is kind of what's initial assessment. It's the reports from the pilots. It's

Did the munitions release from the aircraft? Did they go to the points that they were designed to go to? Did you see explosions there? What was your initial pressure? That's kind of phase one, the initial reports that are done in the immediate aftermath of this. And then we go to phase two assessment, which is largely imagery based. So we've seen on television here over the last,

several days, almost a week now, these maxar images of the before/after pictures. So what happens in that is we, and CENTCOM does a lot of the work here, is they're looking at imagery and what they're trying to determine is, okay, did these bombs hit at the places that we needed them to hit to kind of achieve the effects? And they're making further assessments on that and gathering more information about that.

And then we kind of move into what is phase three. And that's kind of the phase that we're in right now. And that is, you know,

what are the effects that we've had against the total the total system and in doing that jared what we do is we reach out to the vast uh the vast intelligence resources that our country has a 16 or 17 different intelligence agencies we reach out to partners the israelis uh we look at open source intelligence uh we we reach we get we receive reports from the

organizations like the IAEA. And then we put all of that together. And what we're trying to do is make a total system assessment. How did we do not just against Fordo or Natanz, but how did we do against reducing the ability of the of the Iranians to have a nuclear weapon?

nuclear weapons program. And in this, we also look at the effects of what the Israelis did. So, for example, one of the things people always ask about is the highly enriched uranium. Yeah, we should be very concerned about this. But I think it's important to appreciate that even highly enriched uranium, you just don't take that and you stuff it into the top of a missile and launch it.

That actually has to go through a weapon-earing process as well. And the conversion locations, the conversion plants,

and facilities that are designed to do that were largely targeted by the Israelis. So even though they may have some remnants of highly enriched uranium, they may lack the ability to actually weaponize that and convert that into a medium that can actually be put into a missile. So that's what the last part of this assessment process is doing, is looking at all these things

and helping us form a really a very fulsome assessment of what we've done against this nuclear weapons capability and how long it will take them to reconstitute that. So I know that's a lot. No, it is. It's good, Dawn. So based on all of that, have you seen anything that would suggest that follow-up strikes are necessary?

Well, I certainly, I have not. And again, but I haven't been privy to everything. I mean, I think that, you know, the general consensus, I think, as General Kane kind of highlighted, is that, hey, we're going to be patient. We're going to let the process work. But the general consensus is that there's a lot of damage here. And we've probably set this back for some period of time that's going to, you know, some lengthy period of time that's going to be difficult for them to

to reconstitute in any kind of short or rapid manner. I mean, I think that's the conclusion I think that we're all coming to, at least that I'm coming to now. Again, we'll see what comes out of all of this. We do have to be a little bit patient. But yeah, it appears we accomplished what, at least on the surface, it appears we accomplished what we set out to do.

Well, it was an impressive mission to be sure. Were you surprised and impressed with the operational security here? I know OPSEC is always a concern when you have these types of missions. I was. I thought it was great. I think this is something that the Department of Defense and the administration did a really good job on.

They skillfully use the element of surprise. I think a week ago, people thought, oh, two weeks, we've got two weeks before we're going to see something. And then within 24 hours, we had a strike. And then, you know, the ability to kind of control the information around this, I think, is...

It is very vital. It's very, very important. I know people want to be in the know. They always want to be informed and things like that. But, you know, in the nature of this is our most successful military operations, I think, have always been characterized by a really good adherence to operational security and not letting, not giving anything away, not giving any advantage to our adversaries and giving full advantage to our men and women who are executing the mission.

General Votel, I appreciate your time, appreciate your expertise and your explanation for everything that went into this mission and kind of the broader conversation on figuring out what happens next. Very, very fascinating. Very interesting. I appreciate the time.

Yeah, thanks for thanks for the opportunity to do it. And if I could just say, I think one of the things I really enjoyed about the the Pentagon briefing was that General Kane did a great job of kind of bringing the humanity to it, talking about the pilots, talking about our air defenders, talking about our analysts. And I think we have young those guys are in a cutter.

Yeah, we have to. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, these are great kids out there, you know, doing the nation's bidding. It's a great reminder that, you know, despite everything, we have wonderful people out there who are very dedicated to our nation and willing to stand up and do what's necessary to defend it. And it just makes me really proud as a veteran and as somebody who had an opportunity to serve our nation as well. So, yeah.

No doubt about that. And thank you, sir, for your service.

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Those U.S. airstrikes against Iran raised worries about how Iran may respond with proxies or cyber warfare. Cyber security expert and American AI logistics CEO John Cofrancesco spoke with Fox News Rundown host Dave Anthony about the risk of Iranian hackers and how the U.S. is prepared to respond.

I think we need to pay close attention to Iran's foreign minister and how the Russians might respond to this. And I believe if they haven't already, Iran will in short order have representatives in China. And it is likely that we'll see some sort of response there as well. So obviously, when you're dealing with Iran, Russia and China, you have probably the three biggest cyber attack activist countries in the world, right?

For sure. And then you can throw in their little brother, North Korea, who I'm sure at some point will have a hand in this. So there's no doubt that the Iranians are reaching out to their allies right now to see who's going to support them and to see how that support is going to manifest. So when you see Iran and Russia together and think about China now,

They have different operations for cyber attacks and hacking around the world, and they have for years. Do they coordinate? It is absolutely certain that they coordinate, but they do it in a loose way. So, you know, the United States tends to work very close with its allies. Just recently, we saw that with Israel.

You know, the Chinese, the Russians, the Iranians, the North Koreans, they're a trust but distrust relationship. And I actually think that's the most likely outcome is what we'll see is disruptive behavior coming from the group of them loosely coordinated, you know, along the lines of business attacks, DDoS attacks, things that are really not directly disruptive, but indirectly disruptive. What would you think would be their number one target? Disinformation.

The number one thing we are going to see, and this is going to be driven by AI, is going to be disinformation. Every YouTube video is going to have comments. Every Facebook post, don't trust them. It is going to be a slew of disinformation. And that is because Russia, Iran, North Korea, China, they have aligned interests there. If they can divide the US population, if they can keep us at each other's throats, then they're in really good shape. And if we're united, then...

then they're in really bad shape. So disinformation will be the number one and the most pervasive thing they do. And with the advent of the large language model, chat GPT and other tools, they can now do this at a scale that they really couldn't do a couple of years ago. Yeah, you mentioned artificial intelligence. How much of a role does it play nowadays when it comes to cyber hacks and all that?

Oh, a ton. And it is really pervasive in a few different ways. The first is on what we call phishing or spear phishing. So it used to be it had to have somebody on the other end of the line trying to hack you, trying to get you to give up that information. Now you can just have a bot do that. So we're going to see a lot of that. The second thing we see in this quite frequently is particularly with the advent of some of the voice-to-text capability, text-to-voice capability,

People are getting phone calls from bots that sound a lot like humans, sound a lot like famous people even. And we may see an increase of that. But certainly the bots are going to be used for disinformation campaigns. We know Russia's been great at that. I mean, they certainly were involved in the 2016 presidential election here and other elections. Is Russia better at that than anybody else? Could they help Iran with disinformation? Absolutely. Because if you're the Russians...

This is not good for you. If the Iranian regime stumbles and falls and we end up with a Western positive regime in Iran, that is a huge problem for Russia. They will have lost access to a huge area from which they do operations. People may not always realize, but Russia runs tons of operations in the Middle East and in Africa. Iran is a great pit stop for them when they're doing that. The Iranians obviously are allies on the international stage in all sorts of ways.

So Iran and their current regime being in trouble is not good for them. At the same time, they would like to see the United States dragged into something wider so we get distracted from Ukraine.

They have an interest in pushing disinformation, and they're going to utilize their really advanced capabilities to do that. All right. Let's get beyond disinformation. Let's get into other things that could be targeted. Certainly, you would want to think that the military, United States military, could be something that the Iranians want to attack somehow in a cyber way. You have contacts within the Pentagon. You were with them over the weekend in contact.

What is the U.S. government doing to prevent and try to stop that?

Well, you know, we have an agency dedicated to this. Certainly the Pentagon and DHS have already put out notifications. And I have to be honest with you, it isn't impossible that they would try to do some sort of cyber attack against critical infrastructure or military targets. I happen to think it's more likely that they're going to do business attacks. You know, it's really not that disruptive to the average American if the Pentagon gets hacked. And frankly, the bad guys are trying to do that every day anyhow.

But if your bank goes down or your water goes down or oil and gas goes down, I mean, that is far more disruptive. So because of the kinetic environment, I think Iran will be relatively measured here, but proxy groups may not be so measured. And I think the biggest threat here is in private industry, critical private industry being attacked by Iranian proxies. And again, those proxies could be Russian based or Chinese based. Now, banks also no stranger to Russia.

cyber attacks and attempts to infiltrate their operations. What's different now? They already probably have very good cybersecurity. Well, they absolutely have superb cybersecurity. And I think over the last, you know, 10 years, you know, billions and billions of dollars have been invested into this space. But, you know, with really sophisticated state backed cyber weapons, they're really used once weapons.

So Iran, Russia, China, they will have built and certainly have already a stockpile of cyber weapons that they could unleash. And a lot of those just sit there dormant. So Iran and its allies are now going to have to consider if they're going to unleash some of those. And those will be unique attacks. Those would be attacks that we might not have defenses for. I will say to our credit, we are much better at response than we were a decade ago. So, you know, from my perspective,

Obviously, we're paying attention. Obviously, shields up. But it's not something I'm living in petrified fear about. I think it's something that we'll get a handle on quickly if it happens. Is Iran good at ransomware where they're shutting companies down? Or is that not what is really the biggest threat in this environment?

Well, the Iranians and their proxies are pretty good at that. It's a money-making opportunity. You know, if you were going to name the biggest actors there, you would probably name Russian or North Korean actors as being superior. Chinese actors certainly as being superior. But Iran is not to be trifled with in that space either. They're very effective at cyber. But I really think, you know, given the kinetic nature of this event,

They are going to be measured, and it's much more likely that we see things out of their proxies and that we see them trying to really disrupt our way of life. But ultimately, I think that's secondary to the misinformation. Iran's biggest interest right now is in disinformation. You talk about water treatment facilities being targets and things like that. Have they been...

They've been trying to do that for a while, haven't they? And how well secured do you think that those places are across the country? Because it's not, sometimes it's, you know, small towns or there's a lot of different operators of those kinds of facilities. Yeah, well, I think this is still an area where we're relatively weak. Unfortunately, there are, I think, 38,000 small and medium-sized water operators from, you know,

production to cleaning in this country. So it's hard to put a shield around all of those. It's also very expensive. And some of those facilities are very rural. They don't have that type of budget.

The Iranians and certainly other bad actors have the ability to attack those facilities. But here's what we have on our side. We have smart people who are aware of the threat, and we now have procedures for defending against this. We also have agencies, CISA in particular, that are designed to help us defend this threat. And so if they wanted to strike there, they could. But what the Trump administration has demonstrated is that if you strike the United States or our interests, you're going to get a kinetic result.

And for years, folks in the cyberspace, cyber industry have said that if folks hack us, we respond with a kinetic result. There'll be a lot less hacking. And that's why I do think we need to be concerned here. We do need to pay attention, but I'm not overly concerned because we just demonstrated if you mess around, you're going to find out. A couple of years ago, we did have a pipeline along the East Coast that was attacked, correct? Yeah.

Absolutely. And that was a commercial attack that was really about ransomware. And in fact, if we're talking about the nature of the attacks we're likely to see, that is much closer to what we're likely to see than some sort of TV movie scenario where they take everything out. I think

disrupting our way of life, knocking out oil and gas, ransom wearing hospitals. That is the type of behavior we're likely to see increased. But even then, Iran and its proxies are going to have to be very measured in their response because when a cyber hack is met with a kinetic response, you're going to be very wary of inviting the United States military to... If you're Iran, you just don't want to give the military a reason to strike back.

And so what other things should people do? Like the average person, we know about phishing. We know about all the things that can be a problem for us. What should we, should we be a little more vigilant? What should we be watching out for? If I had to pick one thing and I'm going to sound like a broken record here, it's the disinformation. You should not believe the things that are posted on Facebook. Do not believe the things you see on Instagram. Definitely not the stuff you see on TikTok.

That should be the first place. Use trusted news sources. Go to Fox News. Listen to your news anchors. Don't just listen to Uncle Jim who's reposting something from some strange website. Beyond that, the standard behaviors we advise all the time are the right behaviors. Change your passwords. Make sure you have your antivirus up to date. Make sure you have updates on the software on your home laptop and your home devices.

But like I said, the biggest thing is on the disinformation. You talk about TikTok. We haven't really even discussed China very much. They have had lots of different operations trying to target American infrastructure in the last several years. I mean, the FBI has warned about that numerous times. China, if they get involved and try to help Iran, how much bigger a problem do we have? Well, it's definitely a bigger problem. But you have to look at Chinese interests. The Chinese would love for us to be bogged down in another Middle Eastern escapade.

So the Chinese interest in the Iranian regime's interests aren't perfectly aligned there. And it'll be very interesting to see how the disinformation campaigns out of Russia and out of China and out of Iran now come to a head. Because if you're China, you want our aircraft carriers in the Middle East. You want personnel on the ground in Iran. You want Iran to win that. But you want us distracted so they can do what they want to do in Taiwan. So

It'll be really something we have to focus on. These guys are sophisticated actors, and we may yet see some very interesting and novel disinformation campaigns. How good has U.S. Cyber Command become, in your opinion?

At offense, they're the best in the world. I mean, you know, the only the only close competitor would be the Israelis. And even then, we're just second to none. So Cyber Command is very effective. They have offensive cyber capabilities that are just unmatched. You know, on the defensive side, America is always going to be a little bit more vulnerable than our peers and sometimes much more vulnerable than our peers because we're a free country and being free

means that you have companies that run important parts of your life. I mean, think about Google and how many, you know, your GPS system, think about, you know, your email is probably hosted on a private, through a private company. It's not in some, you know, some publicly shared companies or state-owned companies environment. So our freedom makes us more vulnerable. Frankly, the quality of life and the amount of automation makes us more vulnerable. So

It's something we have to pay attention to, but we have become very adept at responding. You know, there was a time where if you had a bad enough hack, you could knock out a system for weeks or months. That does still exist, but it's far fewer and much rarer than it was. Even if they got us good, I believe that for the most part, we would be able to respond and get ourselves back on our feet within a couple of days. All right. So if something happens...

You don't see a major cyber problem in the U.S.? I think we have major vulnerabilities, and I think there is the potential for them to do a major strike. But I think that we're prepared, and I think that their interests are not in enraging the American populace. That's not where their biggest interests are. They don't want to create ire in the United States. Their interests are really in disinformation and keeping us at each other's throats.

Could they do something? Absolutely. That is definitely a weapons kit they have, but I think that's less likely. And even if it does happen, I think we're quite adept at responding. John Cofrancesco, cybersecurity expert, founder and CEO of American AI Logistics. Great to have you on. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me back.

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Tomorrow on the Fox News Rundown, Jessica Rosenthal speaks with Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt about his plans to turn his state into America's hub for processing and refining critical minerals. Until then, thanks for listening. I'm Jared Halpern. This is the Fox News Rundown from Washington.

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