Post Mortem | Crossfire at the Shaughnessys'
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Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green. And with me today are CBS News Chief Investigative Correspondent Jim Axelrod and producer Jenna Jackson to discuss Shootout at the Shaughnessy's. Thank you so much for joining us, guys. Thanks.

Thanks for having us. Yes, thank you. The thing about this hour is, you know, the story starts off one way and it ends in a way that's completely different than you expect. There's a break-in at Ted and Corey Shaughnessy's home in Austin, Texas. Ted is killed, but his wife, Corey, actually survives. And initially, it seems like this could have been, you know, a robbery gone wrong. But as the police start investigating, it looks more and more like this is an inside job.

So before we get into the discussion, let's just hear a quick recap of the broadcast. Before dawn on March 2nd, 2018, intruders entered the home of Ted and Corey Shaughnessy, killing him and one of the family's Rottweilers, Bart. Corey says she shot back and called 911. I'm in the closet. There were shots fired. Help me. Okay, we're helping you, ma'am. Help me. Help me.

Paul Salo and James Moore of the Travis County Sheriff's Department say bullet casings were scattered on the floor. We had .40 caliber and .380. It was a hell of gunfire.

At first, Corey Shaughnessy thought it was a botched robbery. The family business had made them wealthy. Being a jeweler, you might someday be a target. But Ted Shaughnessy didn't have any known enemies. And then-assistant DA Amy Meredith says it didn't look like a robbery. There were still valuables all over the house. There was nothing stolen. But there was something missing from the Shaughnessy's house.

a handgun from a bedroom once belonging to their son, Nick. He and his high school sweetheart, Jackie Edison, rushed to Austin from the home where they were then living two hours away. We began discussing the alarm system for the house. Corey says the family only armed the alarm when they were away, though Nick had access to the settings through a phone app. Police suspected he and Jackie were involved in the murder,

But in the following days, the couple moved in with Corey. You could have told me aliens landed on the front yard, and I would have believed that before I would have believed that Nicholas and Jackie planned to have us killed. I was incredibly impressed by her.

She's an impressive woman. She really is. She had a literal shootout. Like, I feel like part of that even gets missed in all this craziness. She literally had to shoot back at two hitmen who broke in in the middle of the night. I can't fathom that. And then hid in the closet when she ran out of bullets. Like, there's so much trauma, you know? She had a good marriage. Like, you go to bed and you've got somebody next to you in the bed who you love.

You have a gorgeous home. You have a thriving business. That guy, that husband of yours is beloved in the community. So as you close your eyes, you're thinking, you know what? This is good. Life's a heavy lift and we're making it happen. You're awakened a few hours later and there is a hail of gunfire in your house and your husband's dead. Like, think about how you have to

Fold all of that into your ass. Just that. Just that is traumatic. And then the rest of this craziness unfolds and it's the other person you love most in the world who did this. There was some incredible detective work done here by detectives Paul Salo and James Moore. They discovered these text messages on Nick and Jackie's phones that seemed to suggest their involvement in

in hiring the shooters. But the trail kind of runs cold until Detective Moore spots a small detail on the security video from Nick and Jackie's porch, recorded just two days really before the attack. Here's Detective Moore talking with Jim about what he saw on the security video. - I see two individuals show up to his front door. - Moore says he noticed something about one of the men that made him freeze the video.

something he was wearing. A green Anderson T-shirt. Window company. A window company. This feels like a break, and it only happens because you isolated a frame of the video from the security camera? Yeah. He and Salo drove to the window company where their hard work ran into more good luck. By sheer coincidence, an employee's daughter said she'd actually met the man in the freeze frame.

Apparently, he'd only worked there for a few days, four years earlier. And this woman still remembered his name. Sergeant, what are the odds of a hit like this on the identity? It was crazy that we got that break.

Okay, so that was a lucky break for sure, right? But it's not just luck because I didn't even, I couldn't even figure out why he zeroed in on that t-shirt. Something about it stuck out to him. Yeah, you know, this is sort of one of the controlling principles of police work. But this case in particular, luck is the residue of design, right? The harder you work, the luckier you get.

I mean, you can say Locke all day long, but unless Detective Moore is staying on this to the degree he did and kept his behind in the chair in front of the screen and went over and over, they would have missed it. Jim's exactly right. They left no detail unturned and they searched and searched to figure out who this guy was.

And thankfully found somebody who remembered him from four years earlier, you know, so it's pretty amazing. It still makes my hair stand up in the back of my neck that that's how they broke this case. That shirt would not have jumped out at me enough to follow up on it. Yeah. And then once they follow up. And drive all over the state, you know, they drove all over the state for like several days in a row to finally figure out which office of this window place sucks.

someone remembered this guy. Okay, but even, let's take it one step further. They managed to find someone who remembered the guy while he was working there for the brief number of hours he was? Yeah. And they remember that? I mean, that is a stroke of luck, but again, it's only enabled...

by an incredible amount of hard work. Now, we should add that the man in the T-shirt they identified in the video was not involved in the killing, but he knew someone who was. And that led police to Nick Shaughnessy and his girlfriend, Jackie, who we later find out is actually his wife, right? So, you know, the way this investigation sort of unfolds and comes together is really incredible. What?

What was Nick's relationship, though, like with his parents? It seemed like they adored him. They gave him all sorts of opportunities. Nick Shaughnessy had everything. He had two parents doting on him. He had every material comfort, anything he wanted. So he was indulged and people might say, well, he was overindulged. But that doesn't create anything.

Somebody who launches this kind of plot, right? I mean, they even helped him start his business as a day trader, giving him money. Everything seems like he was on the right path.

And I think his parents thought he was on the right path for the most part. Corey said at one point during our conversations, he wasn't super motivated yet. I mean, I'm a mom of twin teenagers. That is not unusual. You know, I think they thought their relationship was fine. So as I'm watching The Hour, this episode is really a masterclass in interviewing, not only securing an interview, but also

but also getting answers to tough questions. Both of you did that. Jim, your interview with Nick was really something.

And Jenna, you approach Jackie right after she's released from prison for an interview. I thought there's no way this woman's going to talk. And then she stands there and answers your question. Let me just hop in here for a second. This needs to be said. The degree of difficulty of walking up to someone who you know doesn't want to talk to you and you approach them and not only get them to talk as opposed to just clamming up or running away or whatever.

but then tell you things that become helpful in understanding the scope of the story. No one understands how hard that actually is. You see the final product on TV sometimes. You're like, oh, you know, Jenna really needs to understand

be called out for what a top shelf job that was. And Jenna, what were you thinking when you were approaching her? I mean, apart from trying not to throw up, right? I knew she didn't want to talk to us because I had been to visit her twice in jail. And the second time she wouldn't even come out to say hello.

So she knew who I was. She didn't want to talk. I genuinely always want to hear someone's story, whatever it is. And I feel like people always surprise you. And people generally want to tell their story. So I was just trying to be...

you know, not intimidating and like, look, we're doing this story. You're a part of this story. We really want to hear what you have to say. And while she said, I don't want to talk, I said, okay, well, I'm going to ask you some questions anyway. And she just kept answering them. And I was sort of caught off guard listening to her answer. She had thought about this, you know, so whatever you make of her, it at least gives a little more insight into her, which was nice. So true. And then Jim, yeah,

Your interview with Nick in prison after he's incarcerated. First off, you're sitting across from him. There's a glass separating you two. What's it like interviewing someone?

in a maximum security prison, do you have to sort of block out the environment? The biggest impediment in a situation like that is most of the time when you interview someone you've never met before about something sensitive, you want to establish a sense of trust. And that's done before the lights go on and the camera goes on by accident.

you know, how you doing? I just want you to understand this is what I'm going to talk to you about. All that's out the window when you have to walk in and some public information officer from the prison is saying, all right, you got five minutes to sit down and let's get going. Tweak the camera and let's, and then you have an hour. And this is my one shot. The first thought in the front of my mind was look in his eyes, make sure he knows you are listening to him.

Because that is crucial. I said to him, I'm like, look, Nick, you know I'm going to ask you questions that are not going to be comfortable. But this is your chance to actually explain to a lot of people who are wondering what kind of guy would do this. So if you have something to say, now's the time to say. That doesn't mean I have suspended my own sense as a human being of, oh my God, I'm sitting across a guy from trying to have his parents killed.

You're describing kind of the delicate balance, all the different thoughts that go through your head. And that's part of the reason why I was so impressed with your approach to him, because you did ask the questions that the outraged viewer would ask, but not in a way that would stop him from answering your questions. Yeah.

So I want to play part of your interview with Nick. He very quickly accepts what he did, but accepting what he did is different than taking accountability, right? So, Jim, here's what you asked Nick. Were you at all thinking, what am I doing? Of course. It was always in the back of my head, like red flags, like stop, don't go. The back of your head? Yeah. Why not the front of your head? I guess the...

the validation or approval from Jackie.

So that's when I was like, there it is. Best moment ever, Jen. Yes, there it is. Because the whole time I'm thinking, geez, he seems, you know, really ready, willing and able to take responsibility for this. Somebody said to me, and this is the highest compliment I think I've ever received. They said, man, that was disappointed dad vibe. Oh, yeah. So as I was watching the interview with Nick,

I kept on thinking, why am I unsatisfied with his answer? He's taking responsibility. I know. But I still feel unsatisfied. And it's because you don't say those words without breaking down, without tears in your eyes, something. That is such a great observation on your part.

So Jackie only had to serve 120 days in jail. Nick and his two accomplices, they each got sentences of 35 years. Big difference.

Jenna, you know, you spoke to Jackie and you asked her about that. And she seemed to think that was fair based on her, what she says is her involvement. What was your reaction to hearing the sentences that everyone got? I'm from Texas and have been crime reporting here for over 20 years.

Even 35 years for a murder and an attempted murder is pretty low in Texas. I was kind of amazed at those plea deals. But Jackie did cooperate eventually with the police. She filled in some blanks. So, you know, that could be what sort of led them to these plea deal talks.

Yeah, I don't know if we'll ever know fully what went into that decision. We won't, but there was a woman who survived the murder of her husband and she was a target too.

And after the entire process has been completed, she is feeling a sense of not just sadness and frustration, but rage about the system not protecting her. Because she feels the people who are responsible for this were not dealt with. And it plagues her. DA Jose Garza did not speak with us, but he did provide a statement. Let's play a clip from the show.

A district attorney's spokesperson sent us a statement saying, quote, our office takes acts of violence seriously and is committed to holding people who commit violent crimes accountable. The statement also said Edison is on 10 years probation, and if she violates the terms, she could face 20 years in prison.

Corey Shaughnessy says a full explanation from authorities would have helped her make sense of something that has always struck her as impossibly wrong. So no one's ever explained to you why this enormous disparity in sentence? No, absolutely not. So this is why sometimes DAs simply issue a statement?

Because I can tell you if that was done at a news conference, the first question that I'd be asking is, hang on, you do not answer the question. Why the disparity? So appreciate the statement, but could you please tell me why the disparity? Yeah, I mean, I agree with Jim.

They're not answering the question that we asked. You spoke to investigators and they were convinced Jackie knew something about the murder plot and did nothing about it. Nothing to stop it. Let's hear a clip from Detectives Moore and Salo. They're both to blame. Who took more action? It's Nick. You take Nick out of this, you don't have the incident. You take Jackie out, it still happens.

That's a really important point. Let's underscore that, Emery. You take Nick out of it, it doesn't happen. Take Jackie out of it, it still happens. So yes, disparity, sure, maybe. But this much disparity, I think that's the frustration and anger of Corey and others. It's not that she was treated differently. It's like we're not even in the same universe of sentencing.

At the heart of this broadcast is Corey. Not only does she have to live through this nightmare of an experience of witnessing her husband's murder, but also an emotional journey to discover that her son, what could be more heartbreaking than this? Her son is behind it. When we get back, we're going to get into more of Corey's side of the story.

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Jim, you played Corey a clip from your interview with Nick in which he apologizes to her. Let's hear Nick's apology and then Corey's reaction to it. I wish I could tell my mom how truly sorry I am that this is not something I'm proud of and I failed her as a son. It means nothing to me. Do you think he believes it, what he's saying? I don't know that person. I have no idea who Nicholas Shaughnessy is anymore.

And Corey says there is no point responding to an apology. She was never meant to hear. In my mind, I am supposed to be dead. And so I'm a ghost and ghosts can't speak.

It was such an interesting way of phrasing that feeling. I'm a ghost. Yes. It gives me goosebumps every time I hear that, you know. As a parent, I mean, I just don't know how you accept that news and then how you deal with it. You heard Nick's bloodless, almost pulseless tone when he was apologizing to his mom. It's like robotic. And then...

Corey, who's working hard to keep it all together all these years later, still you could hear the emotion in her voice as she's, you know, sort of, I'm not even going to respond because I'm supposed to be dead. Like she has to still every day of her life try to make sense of the absolute senseless. Do you believe Nick's apology?

I mean, he's sorry he's sitting in prison for 35 years. And no tears, no emotion, no. If those signs matter to you in terms of judging authenticity, did I feel like I was talking to somebody bereft? No. It's hard to believe that

the child that you poured so much into. And we're all parents here. So we know how much the parenting process also changes us. We become different people as a result of being parents. So I can only imagine how difficult it was despite the evidence that

for her to come around to finally sort of believe that he was part of this plot. What's your take on that process that she talked about it? Why it took so long? I mean, I, I think as a mom, if you told me one of my twin boys plotted to kill me, I would immediately think you were trying to frame them. Like no one's going to believe that, you know? And I think she, she felt like a suspect in the beginning and,

And so then I think she was like, well, they're just grasping for straws. Now they're going after my kid. That's not going to happen. You know, one of her attorneys told me a story at one point. There was a moment of realization for her that was heartbreaking. She was in a conference room at the law firm. And this was after Nick had admitted to everything, had been presented with all the evidence. And, you know, Jackie had already turned against him and he was about to take this plea deal.

And it took up till that point for Corey to hear every piece of the evidence connected and laid out in front of her.

And this attorney said, you could see it just wash over her. Oh my God, he really did this. Like, and she had to leave the room because she got so emotional. And then she came back and she was like, okay, like what's the next step? I thought about this a lot afterward. Like as in my particular case as a parent, at the end of the day, as you get to be older, really what, what else matters? Your relationship with your kids matters.

with your family, with what you're going to leave behind. Those are your fingerprints and footprints. And I just kept thinking about Corey. As she gets older, she will not have the luxury of being able to fold in even more, grasp even tighter to her kid. She has to do just the opposite, which is figure out emotionally how she can

how she can forget him. Move on. Yeah. Yeah. So to your point, Jim, when you ask Corey how she feels about her son now, she says something really interesting. I want to play some of that sound. Do you still love your son? I love the person I knew to be my son before this happened. You love that eight-year-old boy racing cars with his dad. Yes. Yes.

I don't know how you do both. Yeah. You know, Corey's got a life sentence of her own, if you think about it. She's got this uphill emotional climb, I feel for her. I do too. She's in an impossible situation. You know, there's no good answer. And at some point, even if it's the full 35 years from now, her son's going to walk out of prison.

So, you know, it makes it even more difficult. You know, you asked about how do you interview Nick in prison? I got to be honest with you. I thought more that that was easy in a sense. Like I knew where the lines were. I knew what my objectives and goals were. It was more complicated to sit down with Corey.

Because I had to also establish a safe sort of interview space. I've interviewed murderers before. I've never interviewed somebody whose kids or son and prospective daughter-in-law were plotting to kill her. Like I had never done that before.

And, and I didn't quite know where the lines were or how to get Corey to be able to talk about some of this stuff, but I was much more intimidated trying to get Corey's story out of her than Nick's out of him. Yeah. Yeah. I totally, I totally agree. Um,

Lastly, you end the hour with a postscript that reads, as a parole requirement for the next 10 years, Jacqueline Edison must spend the night in jail on the anniversary of Ted Shaughnessy's murder. In your experience reporting true crime, is this unusual? I've never heard of it, Jenna. I have never heard of it. I think it's sort of brilliant. I mean... It is brilliant. It is. However...

there are the other 364 nights of the year. That's right. I mean, it still seems like getting off easy compared to her cohorts who are every night in prison. But, you know, I did think it was an interesting thing that was in addition to this probation that I have never heard of before. Well, it was a great hour. Fantastic storytelling, incredible interviewing. Thank you so much for joining us this week.

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