Max Winkler - Architect of the Kiss!
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I like that. Yeah. Yes. That's a wrap. That's a wrap. That. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Hi, how are you? I'm really good. I'm really happy to see you. I was just thinking about you. I was talking to the person who's writing the book about New Girl and talking about you. Wait, what book about New Girl? Someone's writing a book about New Girl. I gave an interview. I'm sure they'll come to you last.

Really? Yeah. I genuinely don't even know what you're talking about. Yeah, it's like a full, like, giant book by this journalist. It's not Jessica Radloff, is it? Was it Jessica Radloff? No. Who did the Big Bang Theory book? No. Someone else.

Yeah. Oh, well, hopefully this podcast is helpful to them. They could just listen to this podcast. I'm sure we've had everybody on and everybody's been really like honest about their experience. How honest? Honest. Wow. Pretty honest about their experience, which has been nice. It's been really nice for Lamorne and I because we've learned so much stuff that happened that we didn't know happened.

Right. So I guess this book will lend itself to that too. Um, so today, Max, we are having what we call a loft meeting. Um, you directed seven episodes across season two and three, including the season three premiere. Um, right now we are in the middle of ending season two on the podcast. We're near the end. So you are the perfect guest to kind of help us transition from season two to season three. Um,

What was your New Girl origin story? Like, how did you get involved and how did you get to direct your first episode? It's two-pronged things. It was a relationship with Jake Johnson that started probably seven years before New Girl where I was making a web series with Clark Duke and Michael Cera called Clark and Michael. And we were filming the finale of it. It was like a very ahead-of-its-time web series. I say that not patting myself on the back, but patting Michael and Clark on the back. And...

It was like a web series before web series is basically where, you know, you had it was I think it was like the one of the first ones with like two people's first names. And we were filming the finale. And there's it's a scene where Michael Cera has to audition for a network television show and his scene partner in the audition room is.

improvised with Michael Cera in a way. I'd never met anybody in my life that was as funny as Michael Cera or could go toe-to-toe with him improvisationally. And this guy had a mustache and there was something dangerous about him and there was something that was just I had never seen before. It was a fully formed comedic voice that

I hadn't seen there wasn't it wasn't like, oh, he's doing this or he comes from Apatow or he comes from Vince Vaughn and those guys. And I was like, who is this fucking guy? And I went and I met him. I said, hey, I'm Max. And he said, hey, I'm Jake. And it was Jake Johnson. We fell in love and we started. He took me to like this cop bar. It was our first date. He took me to like this cop bar.

And we started talking about why we felt like The Deer Hunter was a comedy and why we wanted comedies to feel more like that. And he had – he's from a very specific part of Chicago, Texas.

grew up in car dealerships and, you know, collecting junk and putting them in the back of a pickup truck. I grew up in Los Angeles on the West side and we were like the odd couple. And we immediately were like, no one, we had no rep, we had no representation. We had no manners. We had no age or maybe he had an agent, but like no one gave a shit about either of us. Right. And we started writing shows. We pitched a show. We ended up doing this insane television show that we filmed in my backyard and

that we wrote like 155 page Bible for, um, about a guy who goes on a, um, on a, on a reality show about being a prisoner of war and has a nervous breakdown and thinks it's all very real, which is very Jake, obviously. Sure. And, um,

And we went, we somehow attached the, we somehow attached by this point, then I had an agent. We UTA was like, you guys got to meet the reality television producers of breaking Bonaduce. You were like, great, we'll do that. So we ended up going, we somehow get in the door to pitch with Jake, me and the reality television producers of breaking Bonaduce. And we'd go in. No one knows who any of us are. We stopped. It's putting a DVD of the make of the thing we filmed. And people are like,

We're like, and we're going to leave behind this 175 page Bible. You guys can read it. We won't pitch it. Needless to say, nobody bit. Like it was one of the great failures of Hollywood history. And we constantly were trying to make things. We wrote so many movies that no one has ever seen or knows about. And it wasn't, I made my first movie.

And the first thing I did was cast Jake Johnson and it was called Ceremony. And I couldn't get the financiers. The financiers were too intimidated by him.

So I had Jake meet with this financier who was this really gentle, nice Mexican billionaire who had concerns about Jake as a person. And I was like, Jake, you need to do your hair weird. You need to shave your mustache and you need to go in in a suit. And Jake bought a suit. I don't believe he owned a suit at the time. And he went and he met with this guy and they let me hire him. And simultaneously, I was...

Now, like kind of like a writer and a director and like wanting to make my first movie. And there was a script that everybody was obsessed with and it was called Fuck Buddies. It was the most brilliant romantic comedy I'd ever read. Everyone's like, no, it's like a modern day Harry and Sally. Like, it's great. It's going to bring romantic comedy. None of them are. This actually was that. It was the greatest script I had read about sex.

From the male and female perspective of dating and sex. Everyone was lined up and wanted to direct it. And everyone wanted to star in it. And I couldn't believe how funny and sad. And it was like, it kind of, I was like, who the fuck wrote this? And everyone's like, it's this playwright. She's from Michigan. She went, she's just moved to town. And like the town was like, everyone was talking about Liz Merriweather, this writer. Right.

And I ended up becoming friends with her. I don't remember. I think it was through Jason Reitman, maybe, who ended up producing the first movie with Jake. But I became really close with Liz. And we talked about Les Miserables and our favorite plays. And I just, we loved hanging out. And she ended up meeting my friends, one of whom was named Schmidt. Really? Yeah. My best friend's named Schmidt. Get out of town. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

And she thought my group of friends, just like Jake Johnson, was very funny and strange. And I adored her and loved her. And we became friends simultaneously. Now, by the time my movie was made and I was editing my movie, we couldn't afford an editing room. So I was editing it in my house, in my childhood bedroom. And...

Liz Merriweather was now a very, very hot writer getting paid money to rewrite movies, one of whom being a movie that I wrote with my friend Matt Spicer and my friend Jonah Hill that Akiva Schaefer was going to direct called Adventurer's Handbook. They were rewriting that movie to go into production that never ended up going into production downstairs. I was editing my movie upstairs. So Liz would keep coming upstairs and watching scenes for me and giving me thoughts. And she kept seeing Jake and obviously fell in love with Jake.

Now, simultaneously, Ivan Reitman was ending up directing Fuck Buddies, which was now called No Strings Attached. Mm-hmm.

And we, Liz and I both, and Jason Reitman, wanted Jake to be in No Strings Attached. So Ivan came to our screening room, or our editing room, and we showed him No Strings Attached. And we all did whatever we could to make it happen. Because we knew, like, being around Jake at that time period was like being around a time bomb. Like, you knew he had this unique set of...

and he has something that very few movie stars have, which is you either want to have sex with him or have a beer with him. And some people want to do both. And he ended up getting the part and we stayed best friends and we stayed working together and he had an amazing time working with Liz and everyone on that movie. And by the time New Girl came around, you know, he was really set up to do it. He still tested and everything, but it was great. And so, and Liz and I stayed friends throughout that whole process too. Yeah.

I had made that movie. That movie had come out around the first season of new girl. No one gave a shit about it. It did terribly. Um, and I really want to give a shit about it. I saw ceremony and I loved it. Thank you. So, so much, but truly. Thank you.

I did. I remember watching it and I remember loving it. And I was like, wow, it's rare to see films like this anymore. I remember. I remember where I was when I watched it, actually. Where were you? On an airplane? No, I was in a friend's living room. And I feel like people were like kind of wandering in and out. And I was just like wrapped. I was in. That was a theatrical experience, too. People were just coming in. So needless to say, that movie came out. I needed money because I was broke.

And all I wanted to do was New Girl became, as you know, just a supernova. It became this magical thing, like kind of the last one that was just beloved by everybody. Everybody watched. It was a live experience. People talked about it the next day. Zoe doing television at that era was like unprecedented. She was like a movie star. She was beautiful. She was talented. She was funny.

It captured what... I never watched Friends, believe it or not, but it captured what everyone said about Friends, which was you just want to be with these people and you want these people in your living room. And I really, really wanted to direct it. A, because I was broke, and B, because I wanted to hang out with you guys because I was such a fan of the show. And...

Everybody did everything they could. Like Liz did everything she could. Jake Hasden was super helpful. And Jake obviously fought for me. And then by the time second, it was, you know, first season was so hard to get. It was like these crazy feature directors like coming in and doing television was wild. And then by second season, they were like, we'll find a slot for you. We don't know what episode it's gonna be. I was like, I'll, they're like, just be ready. I was like, bro, I have nothing. Yeah.

I'm ready. Yeah, like I'm ready. Like, just let me know. And that was my story. So it was like through the back door, basically. Everybody has been there. Traffic was a nightmare. You got home late and your dinner plans are out the window when you hear the inevitable tiny voice saying, I'm hungry. Yeah, that's when dinner dread sets in. What are you going to make tonight? How can such a simple question be so hard to answer? Well, it

It doesn't have to be, because a delicious, family-pleasing meal from Stouffer's is only a ding away. So if your dinner plans are derailed, don't worry. Just turn to a delicious solution from Stouffer's, a meal that will always leave everyone happy, especially you. Maybe some chicken enchiladas. Spaghetti with meat sauce is always a winner. Or how about some cheesy chicken and broccoli pasta bake? Yes, please. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. Shop now for family favorites.

The Temptations brand, America's number one cat treat brand, is on a mission to show the world just how irresistible cat dads truly are and make 2025 the year of the cat dad. And let me tell you something, it's about damn time. Being a cat dad is a huge green flag. Cat dads are some of the most tempting,

caring, and compassionate men of all. You know, two out of three Gen Z adults believe that cat dads make better bows, too. The Temptations brand knows there is nothing like the bond between a cat dad and their cat, and the brand's variety of irresistible treats make cat

dads even more irresistible to their feline friends. You see, Temptations cat treats are so irresistible. How irresistible are they? They're so irresistible that they make it easy for cat dads to build a lasting bond with their cat and the perfect way to show their love and affection. From athletes to musicians to gamers to scholars to Emmy Award winners and everyone in between, the Temptations brand knows that proud cat dads are living amongst us. And it's time. Oh, it's high time. They got

their moment in the spotlight. Cat dads yearn for a long-lasting bond with their cat, and irresistible temptation treats are key to helping foster and keep that. You see, our treats make cat dads irresistible to their feline companions. Cats lose their cool. Treat a cat in your life to Temptations Treats and discover what makes cat dads irresistible at TemptationsTreats.com. This summer, Disney Plus is going retro for real with all of your Disney Plus and Hulu throwback faves. Shh!

endless rewind on Disney Plus with The Princess Diaries, The Lizzie McGuire Movie and Freaky Friday. Could you like chill for a sec? Then with Hulu, throw it back with Gilmore Girls One Tree Hill and Full House. You got

All these and more now totally streaming with Hulu on Disney+. Bundle subscription required. 18+. Select Hulu content on Disney+. Additional content on Hulu app. Terms apply. One thing about Chicago is it empowers you to want to live because it has so much love. If these walls could talk, they would say stability. They would say neighbors. They would say hope.

they definitely would say love. If these walls can talk, it would say family. JPMorgan Chase Community Development Banking understands that the buildings we invest in are more than just four walls. They are you. They are us. They are Chicago. Wild. I had no idea that your relationships ran so deep with Jake.

Like I knew you were friends and knew that you guys knew each other, but I didn't realize that you guys had been trying to find a way to work together, be together and continue it creatively for that long. Beyond. He's like my brother. He's like my older brother. I still call him about stuff when I'm having a hard time about being a dad or...

I just had to put my dog down recently and the first person I called was Jake, if that says anything. Yeah. No, it's okay. It was for the best. It's interesting because he serves that purpose for, I think...

So many of us. Yeah. Like I always call him my unofficial manager. Yeah. Like I'll call him like when I get an offer or something comes through and I'm like, should I do this? Does this matter? Should I fight for this point in the deal? And he's the only person I truly believe will tell me the truth. He's the person who'll just be like, is this is about ego. Forget this. Why are you talking about this part? This is what you need to focus on. This is what you need to push for. I know Lamorne, the same thing with Lamorne. He's just become this like.

de facto, like super honest big brother that genuinely has your interests at heart, but will also tell you when you're being a real idiot about something. And it's beautiful. It's a beautiful relationship to have. And it's rare. I don't have many people like that in my life. No, it's there. But Lamorne is an incredible person, too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's like my real like brother, brother. Yeah. He just kind of came into that world.

and had no idea about anything and just felt so lucky. I remember Jake actually was the one who talked me into like, um, finally selling my like old beater car, you know, cause he had just done it himself. Jake and I walked that path too, of just being like, is it safe to do so? Like, are we actually going to keep a job? Are we actually going to make money? What is this? And he would, he was one of those people, at least for me, where Jake just didn't front the

You know what I mean? There wasn't like the most authentic person I've ever met. Yeah, it's really special. It's funny you talk about fuck buddies because I actually I think I like blocked it out because I wanted it so badly. And so my brain just went like, let's just get rid of this like it's like trauma and hurt. But I auditioned for it.

I auditioned for that role and had no idea who Liz was. But I remember having the same reaction when I just read the sides. I didn't get the script because I was like, nobody. They just sent me like my one page of sides. And just reading that, I was like, who's like, who wrote this voice? I know. It was so special. And but Ivan Reitman was in the room who in Canada, I mean, for everybody was like a huge hero. But like in Canada is...

The guy. Yeah. And I think I just walked in and the whole thing felt so surreal that I was standing in front of Ivan Reitman that I was like fully out of my body. Like I said the words, but I couldn't focus on what was happening. Yeah. And then Mindy got the role. Right. It's crazy. I mean, Greta, Mindy, James.

Yeah. It was, yeah. The script was unbelievable. Unbelievable. And then at the same time, I remember like another movie with a very similar name, but similar premise came out. Right. And people got them confused all the time, which was like Dante's peak volcano, um, Pythagorean theorem. Right. It was like a very weird thing. And it's a deep impact, no strings attached friends with benefits. Oh, that's right. That's what it was called. Um,

I need to ask you this because we put out there that we were talking to you. And I would say nine out of the 10 questions that kind of came in were all about you directing probably in the top three most iconic New Girl episodes of all time. Yeah. Which is cool. Are you talking about Tinfinity? Yeah.

I was for me, by the way, Tinfinity was huge for me because for my storyline, I was like, whoa, they're really like investing in this and pushing this forward in season two. And I'll never forget. There was so many weird things that happened in shooting that episode. And, um, the thing I'll never forget is being under a tent and it was raining and it was cold. And there was like this thing around this jacket I had to wear, but I'll never forget. Um,

your like just relentless infectious enthusiasm of just genuinely being so happy to be there and to do the scene and it was like

It was really nice. Like you were excited to work with actors as opposed to being like caught up in the thing or like feeling stressed. It was like, you just like, I'm glad you got how like lucky we all were to do it. And I think a lot of us at that point had been kind of like getting a bit grumpy. Cause we, it was a bit of a confusing episode, but I remember, I just remember you walking in with like the biggest smile on your face and being like, all right, we get to do this.

And it was... - So happy to have that reflected to me, 'cause it didn't feel like that at the time. - No, I remember that because I was feeling overwhelmed and you did something that brilliant directors do, which is like, you got me to forget about what my personal experience was and to remember one, I'm really lucky to be here, and two, this day of work's gonna be really fun and we're gonna get to go with it. And none of the other things matter as long as we're just gonna dive right into this scene. I remember that clearly. - Okay, good.

But that's not the episode people ask about. They ask about Cooler. Yes. And the most iconic moment at the end of that episode. And people want to know how much of it came from the director, how much of it came from the script, how much of it was just the magic of Jake and Zoey. Like, what do you remember of that big moment? It was my first episode. It was my first job in TV, really. And I had no idea what it was. I just saw it just said like 207 or 206, The Cooler.

And it was like a full Aaron Sorkin-y type, just like the network and all the studios involved. The kiss was such a big deal. The whole episode is actually really good. But the kiss was like everyone was involved. There was just like there was so much tension. It was like an incredible television experience I've never had really where the stakes were so high. Because it's different when you film something and then it comes out.

really long time ago in like a bundle or a drop like it was so important and like we filmed that on the last day I believe the kiss was in the last day the the

It just was like a – it was a really – I felt like really lucky to be there, and it felt really cool, and it felt really great that I got to do it with Jake and that I got to do it with Liz and I got to meet all you guys. And it felt like important actually. Like – and it was like – and it felt important because A, I'd never done television before, and B –

there was so much network and studio involvement about all of it. They were there for rehearsals, they would come in and out, we would have meetings, Jake would be there. It was just like this very big deal. It felt like my favorite movie is the Sidney Lumet movie Network. And it just like had a network vibe to it. Just like the stakes felt so high at the time, even though it was like a sitcom and a kiss on a sitcom with a very prominent will they, won't they relationship. And

They both like they were so close at that point. And and Jake is so good at making people feel comfortable. And Zoe was such a pro. And it felt it was after this really long week of filming that was like very fun and cozy, I think. And like that, I think the most setups I've ever done in my life in a movie or a television show was the day when we did the true American thing like that was I think it was like.

I remember we did like 177 setups. It was the craziest shit because we were just making up the rules as we went. And then by the time it actually came to the kiss, like we figured out the blocking and we figured out the moment. It was all in the script. It was very planned. But then you just don't know what's going to happen when you say action. Like it just like – and that I'm pretty sure was –

I mean, I'm sure we did it more than once, but like it never got better than the first time. And I remember after we did it the first take, everyone applauded and it was like a very big deal. And it was just kind of like an I just kept being like, I cannot believe someone gave Jake and I drive ons and like we're not parking across the street and walking onto the studio for general meetings anymore. Like it was a real pinch me moment just for that.

And the show then came out and it was like a huge deal. And like, it was like a big, like water cooler, all those buzzwords kind of moment. And like, it was such a big deal that Jake and I ended up getting a studio deal off of that one episode. I, we got, we got, we got a production company. If you remember, it was called Walcott. We made zero shows. We made one pilot. But we had like an office on the lot. It just felt like, like the last days before like,

Heaven's Gate took out the studio system. It was kind of like where pod deals were just reckless and also pointless. The worst idea ever where a guy at a studio would give everybody the same person, like Gerard Carmichael, get him to develop with you. Then everyone would take Gerard Carmichael out to dinner and try, and then he would go with somebody else and be like, fuck. It just was like, I was like, how is this happening right now? What is going on?

And yeah, I was like honored to be a part of it. And it's still after everything I've done for however many years, like one of the things that I hear about the most is like that episode in that moment. Yeah. It's a funny thing because like I went into show air and I watched it, but I've never rewatched the show except for this podcast. So I kind of had forgotten about cooler. Like I knew it was a big deal. I know about the kiss, but I,

You know, I wasn't there on the day to watch it. I must have watched it, whatever that is, a decade ago now. But then, yeah, I just rewatched it. And man, it's like you get weird goosebumps, which is interesting to hear then how produced all of it was. There was so many people and which, as you know, when you start to like load in all the cooks.

Sometimes then it just it you feel it when you see it. You're just like this is there's there's too much going on. And that is like such a credit, I think, also to to to Jake and to Zoe that they could kind of like cut through all the noise that was probably happening around them.

I think Rebecca Adleman, who wrote the episode, she said that she gasped out loud, audibly, almost in a way that could ruin the tape. It was truly insane. And I just feel like it doesn't happen anymore. It just like...

I feel like people wouldn't have had the patience to let it happen in season two, even though some people thought it came too early. Like, I just like, it was such a moment. And again, the thing that makes it different and makes it feel unproduced is having two stars do it. And Jake like grabs her like, and he's like, it's just like fucking hot. Like they're so good. And they had such incredible chemistry that it just becomes like,

iconic, you know, and not just like a lame kiss on a television show. Yeah. That's also credit those like so much credit to you too, that you could just stand back and let it happen. Right. Cause sometimes when the pressure is put on you, so like on a director, I think so much, then all of a sudden their hands kind of get sticky in the business of what's about to happen. Yeah. That's, that's when things get shitty.

Right. Like, can you just like step back and now just like trust that they've got it? Yeah. And we've all seen when a director can't do that. And all of a sudden then it's like stilted and you don't, you can't even get like the breath of what's going to happen afterwards, which is sometimes the most beautiful moment, which is what happens in this kiss. I was very willing to be surprised. Yeah.

And I was very willing to like have the experience of they never kissed until we said action, not on rehearsals or anything like that. So I was I was very interested to just see if it didn't work. I would have said something, but it obviously I knew it would work.

And it did. So there was very little for me to say, except like, great, let's do another one just in case. Yeah. Amazing. What an incredible moment. I had no idea. Everybody has been there. Traffic was a nightmare. You got home late and your dinner plans are out the window when you hear the inevitable tiny voice saying, I'm hungry. Yeah. That's when dinner dread sets in. What are you going to make tonight? How can such a simple question be so hard to answer? Well, it's not.

It doesn't have to be, because a delicious, family-pleasing meal from Stouffer's is only a ding away. So if your dinner plans are derailed, don't worry. Just turn to a delicious solution from Stouffer's, a meal that will always leave everyone happy, especially you. Maybe some chicken enchiladas. Spaghetti with meat sauce is always a winner. Or how about some cheesy chicken and broccoli pasta bake? Yes, please. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. Shop now for family favorites.

The Temptations brand, America's number one cat treat brand, is on a mission to show the world just how irresistible cat dads truly are and make 2025 the year of the cat dad. And let me tell you something, it's about damn time. Being a cat dad is a huge green flag. Cat dads are some of the most tempting,

caring, and compassionate men of all. You know, two out of three Gen Z adults believe that cat dads make better bows, too. The Temptations brand knows there is nothing like the bond between a cat dad and their cat, and the brand's variety of irresistible treats make cat

dads even more irresistible to their feline friends. You see, Temptations cat treats are so irresistible. How irresistible are they? They're so irresistible that they make it easy for cat dads to build a lasting bond with their cat and the perfect way to show their love and affection. From athletes to musicians to gamers to scholars to Emmy Award winners and everyone in between, the Temptations brand knows that proud cat dads are living amongst us. And it's time. Oh, it's high time. They got

their moment in the spotlight. Cat dads yearn for a long-lasting bond with their cat, and irresistible temptation treats are key to helping foster and keep that. You see, our treats make cat dads irresistible to their feline companions. Cats lose their cool. Treat a cat in your life to Temptations Treats and discover what makes cat dads irresistible at TemptationsTreats.com. This summer, Disney Plus is going retro for real with all of your Disney Plus and Hulu throwback faves. Shh!

Endless rewind on Disney Plus with The Princess Diaries, The Lizzie McGuire Movie, and Freaky Friday. Could you, like, chill for a sec? Then with Hulu, throw it back with Gilmore Girls' One Tree Hill and Full House. You got it!

All these and more now totally streaming with Hulu on Disney+. Bundle subscription required. 18+. Select Hulu content on Disney+. Additional content on Hulu app. Terms apply. One thing about Chicago is it empowers you to want to live because it has so much love. If these walls could talk, they would say stability. They would say neighbors. They would say hope.

they definitely would say love. If these walls can talk, it would say family. JPMorgan Chase Community Development Banking understands that the buildings we invest in are more than just four walls. They are you. They are us. They are Chicago. We had a few fans that wrote in some questions just for you. Sure. So...

This one is from Andy in Massachusetts. He said, Lamorne wearing the red suit from delirious was hilarious. Just the look of him in the suit killed me as a director. How do you enhance the comedy in that moment? Did you give Lamorne any specific directions? No idea, but probably not. Lamorne in the delirious red suit is funny enough. And there's very little you have to do to make that funnier. And, um,

I just like I just I just found Lamorne so funny and I found him so patient like to find like because he really just like his star just kept rising and rising and rising as the show went on because the part was he came in late. And so everyone was trying to figure out like how do we make Winston funny?

iconic where it's like actually just to embrace who Lamorne is ended up being what did it because he's so human you can get him doing anything and I just I think like yeah I think like like I I I just thought that was inherently very funny yeah it's funny Lamorne talks about this a lot how season one he rewatches and it's a little hard for him because he can tell he doesn't know

who Winston is because they didn't really know who Winston was. And so he can't really do all the brilliant stuff he's capable of because it didn't exist. There was no way for him to kind of get there. And then season two, it starts to click. It starts, they start to understand him. They start to write better for him. He starts to trust himself and like kind of dive into it more. And it was, there was like a big shift. Yeah.

It was the same with Cece. Like, they... I think, like, you are so disarmingly pretty that some people can first not understand how talented of a comedian you are and how natural you are and how funny you are and how game you are. And so...

Schmidt is like a – we get Schmidt. Put Schmidt in any situation, they could write for Schmidt in their sleep. Nick, Zoe, like for Winston and CeCe, like you guys just kept growing and growing and growing as the writers just started having more trust and understanding how talented you guys are. That by the end of the season, you guys were as good as anyone in character arcs and stuff like that because you guys are so talented. Yeah.

And it was like, yeah. Thank you for saying that. That's so kind. Yeah. It's, Lamorne and I talk about this too, where, I mean, I don't know if this is something that you, you recognized or, or felt when we worked together, but I feel like when I got that role, it was, it took me a while to not, to almost like step out of a place of feeling like,

so, um, so hyper grateful first, like before you even get to like the work and the fun of it, because there was, except for Mindy who had just started the Mindy project, like there was no, or no, she came the year after with the Mindy project besides her on the office. There was, um, no one that was like Indian who has just got to be like an American friend. Um,

On TV, you had to like do the weird accent or if you were a girl, you had to be like just like just fully eroticized the entire time. And Liz, you know, wrote this friend called Cece. I happened to then book this role and I happened to be Indian. And so...

But she just kind of like was like, no, this is about like how she fits in the front group. And this is her dynamics with everyone else. And there felt like this huge, it was two things that were happening at the same time for me. One was like this, this gratefulness of like, how did I get here? This didn't exist. There was no path. Right. And so all of a sudden I've landed here because Liz just saw me as like a good, a good fit for this role. And then this pressure, right.

Right. Of like making sure that if something was written, that was a bit of a stereotype or push to like finding my voice and making sure like I felt like the pressure of all these young girls and boys that kind of look like me watching and to go like, how do I make sure I don't lean into all the stuff that I've seen that I have found offensive? Right.

and creating this idea in people's head of what a South Asian person is when we're just humans walking this planet like everybody else.

And so I remember that and I can see it in myself in season one of taking things a little too seriously and being scared to take chances and to be able to do those things because I didn't want to do the wrong thing and hurt or kind of offend what could be a massive opportunity going forward. And it was, Lamorne and I talk about that a little bit too much of like not wanting to like screw it up for ourselves.

And then also just on a bigger picture of like this moment of representation. And so I'm grateful that you and I met in season two where all of a sudden I was like, this is safe. This is a safe place. They're, they're going to hear me if I feel uncomfortable for it. And they're always going to like, I'd seen how the show had been edited and put together. They're always making sure that this show is in the absolute best light. And so are our characters. So,

And that was something I had to learn as this show was happening. I'd never done anything before on this level. I know. Yeah. It was just an interesting like path, I think, for so many of us because it was so big, so fast. Right. Talking about you and Jake getting like a, you know, a pod deal afterwards. You're just like, am I ready for this? Can I do this? Yeah.

Wild, like the launchpad of New Girl. It was insane. It was totally insane. As far as network television goes, it's just not that. The show would never be on Fox anymore. It would be on Netflix or it would be on Hulu or it would be on FX, whatever. It just was a different time where the amount of people that watched the Super Bowl were watching this show on a daily basis or on a weekly basis. It was just...

It was just such an interesting time that feels so now weirdly. Yeah, I know. I always say it's like the dinosaur, like it was like the last of the dinosaurs. Like that's not happening anymore. Too much has shifted. Too much has changed, which makes you realize how experimental playwright who wrote like plays about feminism and sex and like in black box theaters was like,

Now running this this TV show that like had to figure out how to make a Ford product placement like for like trucks like make sense was is was just a wild thing to be happening. And it was like my friend Liz, you know, it was just like it was so funny to just be like in the writer's room passing the writer's room and just like see Liz like brushing her teeth and her pajamas like walking out from the writer's room into her office was just like.

Yeah, it's weird. I feel like that's when you start to realize like that time feels just so like elastic, right? Because like you can remember when y'all had nothing going on. And then all of a sudden you guys are like, yeah, kings and queens of the lot. Like, how does that happen? Wild. Wild. Yeah. I remember I still to the last day that we drove on to that lot. You talk about getting like the drive ons and then being able to like park. Yeah.

like at the stage and not like way deep in some parkade and like walking through and like dragging your, whatever your shit with you. Negative 57. And you're like, Oh, I feel like when earthquake happens, like I'm just going to be crunched. Yeah. It's, it's, it's strange how it happens so fast and so slow and how it's really feels like a true before and after in your life. I know. It's incredible how lucky we were.

Okay, the last question I'll ask you is from Lori in Tallahassee, which is, which new girl character would you rather commit to having a weekly 8am coffee with for a year? I would say them in character.

It says a new girl character. I feel like I could have, it would be like a very steady standard. She would be there on time plan if I did it with Cece. I feel like anyone else, there would be too many. I'll choose Cece as mine. Well, that's very kind of you. I thought you for sure would be like Nick Miller. I could talk about the zombie novel. No, because I feel like he wouldn't show up.

That's also true. You'd be having coughing by yourself, which is not a terrible thing sometimes. Yeah, and I don't want to do that. I feel like the most reliable answer is 60. I'm going to sneak in one more because I actually want to know the answer to this. What scene from New Girl was your favorite to direct? What came out even better than you expected it to? It was definitely, I would say, in that first episode, in the cooler. And...

um, that the true American, um, scene came out better than I thought it would. Cause it was, it came together entirely in editing. Cause we just shot everything. And the whole idea of that thing is that no one, there are no actual rules. So we were just making it up like we were at UCB or something on the day. And so having to do that for like, the days were so long on that show. I remember that day being like 14, 15 hours. And, um,

That came out better than I thought. And I honestly, like, I loved working with you guys. I loved watching Jake and Max make each other laugh and try and make each other break on set. I loved when Damon came. I loved directing scenes with you and Max. I loved working with Zoe. And I loved watching Lamorne find the character, you know, as they started to give him more of one throughout. And like,

I love seeing what everybody's doing now. I was so young when I was working with you guys. We all were. And I just feel like it was very easy to, again, because the days were so long and be jaded or something, or as it kept going on, I feel really grateful. As we're talking about it, it really was a magical time.

Yeah, it was. It's funny you talk about how honest people have been when they've come on to this podcast and shared, you know, because there's ups and downs and challenges and hurdles and all the things. But it was, yeah, we were young and it was a lot really fast and everybody was trying to handle it.

The best they could. And what I always say is, man, thank goodness that we got to do it for as long as we did. Because it's like those seasons of life, right? Where in the beginning you're like, this is amazing. And then it's a roller coaster, right? And then you're family. So then you're at each other and, you know, you're like learning each other's little like isms. And then you realize how grateful you are for the whole thing again. And then we got to like really close it out. And I feel like one of the biggest bonding things that happened for all of us was

was when they just like were canceling us. They were just like, you're done. It's over. And then like Liz is trying to scramble to write this like coda to like wrap up a series. And then we all sat and wrote letters just asking, you know, if we could have a few more episodes to really...

um, finish our show in a way that like honors the show and all of us, I can just see it like in my mind's eye, like all of us just sitting down individually in our apartments or houses or whatever, you know, like begging for the chance just to like finish it with some, um,

um respect was really like a moment where I think we realized that yeah all of those little growing pains we had with each other and in the show and within the characters when they tried things um that our love for for the show and our appreciation for it and for all the people that came and helped us tell the stories including yourself um it just superseded all of it in spades um

Yeah, really lucky. Well, thanks for coming and hanging out with me, Max. I love seeing you, buddy. It's great to see you. I love to see you too. So that is our show. You can join us on Tuesday to recap the season two finale, Elaine's Big Day with the Taylor Swift. And a lovely friend of ours by the name of Zooey Deschanel will be joining us so you don't want to miss it. Bye. Bye.

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