We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!
Export Podcast Subscriptions
cover of episode What’s hiding under the Antarctic ice?

What’s hiding under the Antarctic ice?

2025/1/22
logo of podcast Unexplainable

Unexplainable

AI Deep Dive AI Chapters Transcript
People
J
John Priscu
N
Noam Hassenfeld
Topics
Noam Hassenfeld: 我主持了本期节目,主要关注南极洲冰层下是否存在生命,以及这一发现对我们寻找地外生命有何启示。南极洲表面环境恶劣,但其冰层下可能存在大量生命,这颠覆了我们对这片大陆的认知。我们对火星表面的了解比对南极洲冰层下地质的了解更多。南极洲冰下湖泊的存在,以及其中可能存在的生命,为我们探索地外生命提供了新的思路和方向。 John Priscu: 我是蒙大拿州立大学的微生物学家,长期从事南极洲冰下湖泊的研究。我的研究团队在南极洲冰下湖泊中发现了微生物,这证明了生命可以在极端环境下生存。这些微生物利用矿物质而不是阳光获取能量,这与地球上其他生态系统中的生命形式截然不同。南极洲冰下湖泊中的生命不仅丰富多样,而且对地球的生态系统有重要影响,它们通过冰下河流将营养物质输送到海洋,对大陆架的生态系统起着重要的作用。 我的研究成果为NASA探索地外海洋世界提供了宝贵的经验和数据支持。我们正在研制用于探索冰下海洋的机器人,例如BRUIE,这将有助于我们更好地了解木卫二等星球上的海洋环境,以及其中可能存在的生命形式。我相信,在木卫二等星球的冰下海洋中存在生命的可能性很大,因为这些星球具备支持生命存在的必要条件,例如液态水、营养物质和能量来源。 John Priscu: 我的研究团队在南极洲冰下Willans湖进行了钻探,发现了大量微生物,这证明了生命可以在极端环境下生存。这些微生物生活在完全黑暗、冰冷的环境中,依靠矿物质获取能量,形成一个独特的生态系统。这一发现改变了我们对地球生物圈的认知,也为寻找地外生命提供了新的思路。我们开发了清洁钻探技术,以避免污染样本。我们对样本进行了严格的DNA测序,确认了微生物的存在及其生存方式。南极洲冰下湖泊中的微生物通过冰下河流将营养物质输送到海洋,对地球生态系统有重要影响。我们的研究表明,即使在最极端的环境中,生命也能找到生存之道。 与NASA合作,我们正在开发用于探索冰下海洋的机器人,例如BRUIE,这将有助于我们更好地了解木卫二等星球上的海洋环境,以及其中可能存在的生命形式。我相信,在木卫二等星球的冰下海洋中存在生命的可能性很大,因为这些星球具备支持生命存在的必要条件,例如液态水、营养物质和能量来源。南极洲冰下湖泊环境与木卫二冰下海洋环境类似,可作为研究木卫二生命的参考。

Deep Dive

Chapters
The episode starts by describing the harsh environment of Antarctica and how scientists initially thought it was lifeless. However, microbiologist John Priscu believed there could be life deep beneath the ice. The discovery of over 600 liquid water lakes under the ice sheet, one being Lake Vostok, and the subsequent expedition to Lake Willans, revealed a thriving ecosystem of microbes that survive without sunlight.
  • Antarctica's harsh surface conditions initially led to the belief it was lifeless.
  • Over 600 liquid water lakes exist under the Antarctic ice sheet.
  • Lake Vostok is a significant subglacial lake under two miles of ice.
  • Life was discovered in Lake Willans, existing without sunlight and deriving energy from minerals.

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
中文

Support for the show comes from Curiosity Weekly, a new podcast from Discovery. Science is constantly evolving, with new discoveries happening every week. And on Curiosity Weekly, they help us unpack the latest science and tech news with expert guests who make it all make sense. From the research behind our brain activity when we're scrolling on social media to finding out why lefties are sometimes more musical than righties. The breakthroughs never stop.

Listen to Curiosity Weekly wherever you get your podcasts. Support for the show comes from Delta Airlines.

No matter who you are or where you're going, Delta believes that you deserve to fly in the utmost comfort and style. It's about more than just getting you from point A to point B. Flying with Delta means you get a curated experience both on the ground and in the sky. From planning to arrival, the Fly Delta app is your ultimate travel companion, with AI-powered capabilities coming soon for maximum efficiency.

We all started looking out that window.

On his first trip to Antarctica, John Priskew couldn't stop staring out that little oval porthole at the cargo plane. This is a whole continent, right? It's covered with ice. It's just white. Most people who've seen all that endless white, they figured it was basically empty. They painted this picture of this awful place for life.

I mean, we all know about the stuff around the coast, right? Penguins, seals, shorebirds. But everybody thought that the rest of the continent was just a big benign block of ice. Which makes sense. Like, it's Antarctica. It's really harsh at the surface. I mean, the average temperature of Antarctica is about minus 60 centigrade. And it's really dry, dark, more than half the year. That's a tough place.

But John's used to tough environments. He's a microbiologist. He studies life that can survive in some of the most extreme places. And when he looked out that window, it didn't seem impossible. You can't have this much real estate on our planet that's lifeless. John knew that if there actually was a ton of life in the middle of Antarctica,

It wouldn't be on the surface. It would probably be somewhere way deeper. Somewhere no one's ever been before. We know more about the surface of Mars than we know about the subsurface of the ice in Antarctica. I'm Noam Hassenfeld, and this week on Unexplainable, is there life miles beneath the Antarctic ice? And if there is, where else might life be hiding? ♪

So, John, intuitively, I would think if you went deep under the ground of an already inhospitable place, it would get more inhospitable. I wonder, how is it possible that life can survive?

In a place that is that cold and no sunlight. Let's go right to the bottom. Some of the largest lakes on our planet are under the Antarctic ice sheet. There's lakes under the ice sheet? Like fresh, like liquid water? Liquid water lakes. Over 600 have been identified. One of the lakes, I think it's the crown jewel of lakes, is Lake Vostok.

It's over in East Antarctica, and that lake is under two miles of ice. The lake is 3,000 feet deep, and it's the size of Lake Ontario. So this lake has been ice covered for more than 15 million years. So it hasn't seen a ray of light or a wisp of wind for 15 million years. And how is it liquid down there? Yeah, now that's the question I was waiting for. How?

How do you get liquid water when the average temperature at the top is like minus 60 centigrade? First of all, you get about a couple miles of ice. Ice is a really good insulator, right? So if you look at the temperature profile in the ice sheet, it starts out really cold and then it warms up, warms up until you get to about zero centigrade or the melting temperature of ice.

Secondly, we have a lot of pressure. So when you put pressure on the system, the freezing point changes a little. So water doesn't freeze at zero centigrade. It freezes like minus one. And then the third and the most important ingredient is just heat flux from the earth. We know there's always heat coming up out of the earth everywhere. Because we have this molten core on a planet in conduction. So we have a little bit of heat.

We have a great insulator from the cold, and we have a little bit of a freezing point depression. It's really a precise system. So how did you get all the way down there and actually study these lakes? Our first expedition was into subglacial Lake Willans under the Willans Ice Stream.

Also, the ice was only like 3,000 feet thick. If we want to go under the Antarctic ice sheet, we get there by melting. So we had to develop a clean drill. It's like a big steam cleaner, a big hot water hose. We had to develop sleds that we could pull and buy tractors. We had to buy like seven tractors.

and get them all the way from the United States to Antarctica, and then drive them for two to three weeks to get out to our field sites, pulling all the loads out, and then make a runway to bring aircraft in. So it was a big effort. So we get out there right at the end of December 2012 and started drilling. The drilling took about a week to get a hole that's about three feet diameter to get our tools in.

And then the drillers popped through and we got into liquid and everyone was just like, this is awesome. There was elation. I mean, you could hear roars from all the tents and everybody in our field camp. There were 52 of us. But then all of a sudden the work started, right? The drillers pulled the drill out, turned it over to us, and we started sampling. The first thing we did was put down cameras to make sure, you know, you got to see something.

And we could see the ice, we could see the sediment on the bottom of the ice sheet. And then we got into the water column and saw the bottom of the lake. So the water was a little off-color, it was a little turbid. The bottom of the ice was very dirty. I remember people said, "Wow, this is not at all what we expected." I mean, we didn't know what to expect, so let's put it in a big frame where it's like, this is all exploration.

And then we sent down a sampling bottle, I guess you can call it, a system. So we brought water up. First thing we did was put it under a microscope, stained it with the water sample with a DNA stain, and we saw cells.

I mean, you're seeing something that, I guess, tell me if I'm wrong, but you're seeing something that no one in human history has ever seen before. That's true. Yeah. Being a polar scientist, it was like the highlight of my career, right? But what surprised me was how much and how diverse it was. It's a thriving ecosystem that lives without sun.

So it's much like a deep sea vent in a way, except it's a cold system. What did the scientific community think? I mean, did people question the findings? Did they think it was impossible that life could live down there? Yeah. For any new discovery, you've got to have extraordinary data.

Think of it as going to Mars and reporting life. You better have your act together. So we wore Tyvek suits. We sampled all of our drill water every day. Is this because you're worried about contamination or something? Yeah, exactly. Like bringing down life from the surface. That's right. Or life from us. So samples went into a clean lab. Everyone's Tyveked up, masked up. And we had to convince the world that it wasn't contamination. But I think we did.

Tell me about the actual life you found down there. What kinds of microbes you found, what they look like. Yeah. So it probably took a month after we brought samples back to really do the hardcore testing

deep sequencing of DNA to really find out who they are and how they made a living. There's no solar radiation down there. There's no energy coming in from the sun, but there is energy in the rocks. Now, plants on the surface of the earth, they use CO2, but they get their energy from the sun. The organisms in the dark

use CO2, but they get their energy from minerals. Okay. So they're just using the chemicals that are already down there instead of sunlight. Yep, exactly. Got it. Like ammonium, methane, iron, sulfur. So they can break those chemical bonds and take energy from them. So what they're doing is then they're mobilizing nutrients. And as these lakes flush to the ocean,

It's actually fertilizing the continental shelf in Antarctica. Are you saying then that there's sub-ice rivers that take this lake water to the ocean? Oh, yeah. In the area where we sampled, in West Antarctica, we're under ice streams where these lakes fill and drain about every decade, and that water flows right out to the ocean.

I teach a lot of biology courses and geology courses, and Earth's biosphere, the definition of the biosphere, never included Antarctica. It took 20 years to

of my life as well as others to convince the people to fund us to do this. And now we showed it. Instead of being a big benign block of ice, we could say that it is a thriving biological community. And it's part of the Earth system. It transforms nutrients to the ocean. It's hosting this whole biodiversity that we don't know about. So now we're finding a whole group of viruses that are unique.

We have bacteria that are quite unique from all the surrounding oceans. So we're just starting to unravel it. But you're saying there's essentially this enormous, hidden,

ecosystem that is shaping the rest of the planet because it is filtering into the rest of the planet and we're just kind of starting to understand and that's the key thing it's it's part of the earth system it's this deep biosphere under the ice sheet and as we're losing our ice we may lose it too so you know it's it's got a lot of ramifications we're just starting uh

John's work has transformed the way we see Antarctica. It's gone from a seemingly lifeless place to one that we know is teeming with life.

But understanding what's down there in one of the most extreme environments on Earth, it might help us understand something way bigger. What life could look like beyond Earth. So now that we understand the life under the ice sheet, it has opened huge doors for me to be part of the NASA exploration to ocean worlds. That's in a minute. Support for Unexplainable comes from 1Password. If you work in cybersecurity or IT,

you probably got a ton of assets to protect. And not just those devices and applications you directly manage, but also all those other connected devices and apps that companies use. Fortunately, there might be a way to help you keep it all safe with 1Password Extended Access Management. 1Password says their award-winning password manager is trusted by millions of users and over 150,000 businesses from IBM to Slack.

And 1Password says their extended access management secures your company without leaving your employees behind by blocking unsecured and unknown devices before they access your company's apps. And 1Password still helps employees create strong, unique logins for every app.

You can go to 1password.com slash unexplainable to secure every app, device, and identity, even the unmanaged ones. Right now, Unexplainable listeners get a free two-week trial at 1password.com slash unexplainable. That's 1password.com slash unexplainable. Support for Unexplainable comes from Select Quote Insurance Services.

We've all got those items on our to-do lists that tend to get put off for another day. You know, maybe it's cleaning the garage, taking that cooking class, or maybe it's life insurance. Well, SelectQuote wants to make it easy to check off that box. SelectQuote says their licensed insurance agents work for you and that they can tailor a term life insurance policy for your individual needs easily.

in as little as 15 minutes. That's why SelectQuote says they're one of America's leading insurance brokers with nearly 40 years of experience. Since 1985, they say they've helped over 2 million customers find over $700 billion in coverage.

And if you've got a pre-existing health condition, SelectQuote says they partner with carriers that provide policies for a variety of health conditions, including high blood pressure, diabetes, and heart disease. You can get the right term life insurance for you for less at SelectQuote.com slash unexplainable. You can go to SelectQuote.com slash unexplainable today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com slash unexplainable. SelectQuote says they shop, you save.

Support for this show comes from Curiosity Weekly, a new podcast from Discovery. Science never stops. There are new discoveries happening every week. And Curiosity Weekly is a new podcast that'll bring you up to date on the latest discoveries and innovations and breaking them down in a way that you don't need a PhD to understand. ♪

Hosted by Dr. Samantha Yamin and joined by a variety of expert guests, this is a podcast for the curious thinkers out there who want to learn more. From neuroscience to climate tech and from AI to space exploration, the topics are endless. So if you want to expand your curiosity and keep up the latest breakthroughs in science, listen to Curiosity Weekly wherever you get your podcasts. Allow me to break the ice. My name is Unexplainable.

Around the same time John started exploring lakes deep under the Antarctic ice, NASA made this groundbreaking discovery. There might be liquid water hiding deep under ice on other planets and moons in our solar system. Like entire oceans worth of sub-ice liquid water. Which means there might, might be life there.

One of the most promising spots is Jupiter's moon Europa. And a few months ago, NASA launched the Europa Clipper probe to figure out just how habitable it might be. Three, two, one, ignition.

And liftoff. Liftoff of Falcon Heavy with Europa Clipper. Clipper took off Monday from the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Arriving in 2030, Clipper will make 49 orbital flybys of Europa to search for the basic ingredients of life. But NASA needed someone who really knows their way around subsurface ice. So they teamed up with John. And over the last few years, they've been working on a way to figure out if there might be extraterrestrial life.

right here in our own solar system. So tell me about Europa. What do scientists think it's like there? Firstly, it's got an ice shell, a full ice shell. So that ice moves around just like our Antarctic ice sheets do.

The ice is maybe 10,000 feet thick, and then it's got a liquid water ocean under it. You have an iron core at the bottom of that moon that generates heat, right? And at the surface of Europa, there's a huge amount of radiation coming from Jupiter's magnetosphere. It'd be really hard to live there.

But you got this nice, clement environment under the ice, nice, thick, insulating blanket, a heat source in the bottom, some pressure to lower that freezing point a little bit. And there's no sunlight under that much ice. So our subglacial work under the deep ice sheets is a perfect earthly analog to what we would see in the ocean worlds beyond Earth.

I'm curious, you know, what we've learned from the kind of subglacial Antarctic microbes you've studied that could help us find or maybe understand life on Europa. Well, first, we've defined a habitat. That's really important. That could support liquid water in a place you'd never think it would be. We've defined in Antarctica organisms that can survive in this habitat, that eat minerals for energy.

They can transform nutrients. They can live in cold environments. So we've defined a habitat.

What's the actual work you're doing with NASA? What's the research? We're putting robots under ice in lakes that are frozen. We call that rover BRUEY, it's a buoyant rover for under ice exploration. This was developed at JPL with NASA funding. It's positively buoyant and has big wheels on it. It has lights, it can do 360s, and it crawls along on the bottom of the ice. Now what we're doing is putting instruments on a little tail.

to collect data. Because I would hope the follow-up mission to Europa after Clipper will be a lander. Got it. So the Clipper is going to give you a lot of data on the surface so that we can then plan a lander. And then eventually a drill...

to get into the ocean and then to put under ice rovers in and let them collect data. There's no way we're going to make it. A human is not going to walk around on the surface of Europa any time in our lifetime. But we're going to have to have some kind of rover that has like a 10,000 foot drill attached to it? There are many concepts. I've been to many think tanks on how to drill through it. You can't do it like we do in Antarctica with hot water. And, uh,

They'll have to go down and the hole will seal behind them. It'll free shot. And when they break through, they're going to have to open up a little bay. Out comes a little rover, right? You know, and I mean, something's going to go around and swim around. Yeah. So that's what we were doing a concept of in the Arctic with our rover called BRUIE. That's BRUIE. Yeah. Do you have any sense of when...

if something like that could be possible in our lifetime? - Yeah, I do. I think it will be in your lifetime, maybe not mine, but. - Do you think there's life down there? - I do. - Do you think we're gonna find something down there? - I'd be in denial if I said no. Yeah, why not? - You really think there's life down there? - Yeah, so I don't think we're alone. And I don't mean higher life forms.

You know, these ocean worlds beyond Earth have been around since the beginning of our solar system. So to get life to originate, you need time for all these molecules to come together and make complex molecules like DNA and RNA and proteins. You need liquid water. You need nutrients. We think the Europan ocean has nutrients from this satellite imagery, the salts.

I mean, yeah, why would it not? I mean, I'm taking off any metaphysical hats or anything. I'm just looking at pure chemistry and physics. You've got everything to support life out there. And do you think life on Europa could potentially look like the life in the Antarctic lakes? I do, because the environment that we defined in Antarctica looks like it's pretty similar to the environment in the Europan Ocean.

Yeah, it's got all the ingredients. I don't know, just the idea of...

Antarctica being an analog for a moon of Jupiter. Pretty cool, huh? It makes me feel like there are parts of Earth that are as unknown as Europa, that are as alien as Europa, that there's so many parts of this planet that we still don't know. I mean, you're talking about a completely hidden ecosystem that is shaping our biosphere. I wonder if the connection between your research here at home

and the search for alien life, does that make you think about Earth differently? For sure it does. Now, when I'm out in the deep field and I'm walking in the same area where Robert Falcon Scott walked, I've been there walking, you know, and I just know that under my feet, it's teeming with life, just huge amounts of life. Maybe I feel a little more at home by that. It's a little more habitable.

I would have not thought that before. And if we found life beyond Earth, not little green man, not the purple blob, but a whole microbial system that's with organisms similar to Earth or even different, I would hope that the human population would be humbled for at least 10 minutes by the fact that we're not alone.

This episode was produced by Mandine Nguyen. It was edited by Meredith Hodnot, who runs the show, mixing and sound design from Christian Ayala, music from me, and fact-checking from Anouk Douceau. Thomas Liu is working on a universal translator. Bird Pinkerton is making her way back to the octopus hospital. And we're always grateful to Brian Resnick for co-founding the show.

We've also got some news this week. This was Mandy Nguyen's last episode on the show. She's been with us almost since the very beginning, and we couldn't have made this show what it is without her curiosity, her incisiveness, and above all, her empathy. When I think of Mandy's contributions to our show, I always think back to the time she flew to Texas to search for a lost species of salamander. She went swimming in an underground cave in

And afterwards, she sat down and collected her thoughts. Pure darkness. All I can hear is our breath and the light splashing of water. I stop feeling cold. I don't notice my own short breath. I can't register anything. For a moment, I feel myself disappear, dissolving into the dark world of water and salamanders. Mandy is an adventurer at heart.

And she cares so deeply about understanding the world around her. Everything from mushrooms to the Mariana Trench. But most of all, she cares about people and their stories. Thanks for everything, Mandy. If you want to tell us how much you love Mandy, or if you have any other thoughts about the show, email us. We're at unexplainable at vox.com. You can also support this show and all of Vox's journalism by joining our membership program today. You can go to vox.com slash members to sign up.

And if you signed up because of us, send us a note. We'd love to hear from you. Unexplainable is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Support for the show comes from Delta Airlines.

Delta believes that every journey should be as unique as you are. So they're leveraging digital tools to put you and your preferences at the center of every trip. Delta is evolving the in-flight entertainment experience with new partnerships, features, and functionalities unlocked by your SkyMiles membership. With fast, free Delta Sync Wi-Fi presented by T-Mobile on most domestic flights,

and personalized seatback entertainment, there's always something new to discover on Delta. Go to deltaunlocks.com to learn more about the future of travel with Delta.