Catt Sadler and Law Mother: Saving Your Wealth and Health During Divorce
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I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. Rehab.

Hi, money rehabbers. It's Pamela Moss Garrett, aka Law Mother. I'm a lawyer specializing in growing and protecting your wealth. And this week, I'm filling in for Nicole while she's out on maternity leave. In this episode, I'm talking about a seven-letter word that's hard to say out loud, divorce. If you've been through a divorce, you know there's no sugarcoating it. It's tough. A

emotionally, legally, and yep, financially. And if you haven't been through a divorce, statistically speaking, there's a solid chance you know someone who's going through one right now.

I personally went through a divorce in my early 20s before I became a lawyer, and I made a few mistakes now reflecting back on as a lawyer that I wish I would have known. And I'm going to share those with you in a moment. Today, I'm remarried with two kids, and I feel like the lessons I learned through my divorce have made me an even better person and partner.

Today, we're tackling divorce in two parts. First, I'm going to give you strategies around how to protect your money when splitting with your partner. Next, you're going to hear a conversation between myself and Kat Sadler about protecting your mental health during a divorce. Because in cases of divorce, it's all about protecting your health and wealth. So let's start with the financial side of things.

Divorce is a business deal, meaning when you go through it, it's best to approach it with a rational, calculated mindset like negotiating a business transaction.

Yes, it's also emotional, but the legal process, it's about untangling assets and liabilities. And if you go into it only thinking with your heart, you might get financially wrecked. So let's talk strategy. I'd make yourself a to-do list with these seven things on it. Number one, get your financial house in order yesterday. Before you even say the word divorce, start gathering financial documents.

This includes bank statements, tax returns from the last three to five years, retirement accounts, investment portfolios, credit card statements, mortgage documents, and other debts or loans. Why? Because if things get messy, you don't want to be scrambling for paperwork while emotions are running high. And in some cases, although I really hope this doesn't happen, a spouse might try to hide assets once a divorce is on the table. So you want records of everything before that happens.

Separate property is anything you owned before the marriage, inheritance, gifts given to only you. And in some cases, this is yours to keep. But depending on your state, this can get messy. For example, if you had a real estate prior to the marriage and commingled it, it becomes marital property, which I'll talk about in a moment.

And in many states, if you have assets that increase in value, like real estate, stocks, and a business, this increase in value during the marriage is seen as marital property. For example, if you owned a condo before the marriage worth $200,000 and during the marriage increased in value to $500,000, then that $300,000 increase can be seen as marital property. Marital property typically gets divided unless it's otherwise stipulated in an agreement like a prenup.

How this gets divided is going to be state-specific and can often be related to how long you've been married. If you have a prenup, prenuptial agreement, amazing. That'll clarify a lot. You know Nicole and I are both pro-prenup. If you don't have a prenup, you'll need to work with a lawyer to untangle who gets what. Number three, protect your credit. If you have joint credit cards, now is the time to get your name off of them or freeze the account. Otherwise, your ex could run up debt

and legally you could still be on the hook. Also check your credit report regularly. If your ex is making financial moves in your name, you need to know as soon as possible. Number four, be smart about real estate. A lot of people get emotionally attached to keeping the house.

But here's the hard truth. If you can't afford the mortgage, taxes, and upkeep solo, keeping the house might be a financial disaster. So run the numbers. And if you do keep it, refinance the mortgage in your name so your ex isn't still tied to it. If they keep it, same deal. Make sure your name is off the loan. This is one of the mistakes I made during my divorce.

In our divorce agreement, my ex-husband was to take over the mortgage and refinance. However, he never did. Unfortunately, this was back in 2008 when the housing market crashed. So six months later, the house we bought was worth half the price and my name was still on the mortgage. When he stopped paying the mortgage, it wrecked my credit for about seven years. Number five, don't forget retirement accounts.

Pensions, 401ks, IRAs, they all get divided too. And depending on how your assets are split, you may need a qualified domestic relations order to get your fair share.

A qualified domestic relations order is a legal document that divides retirement plan assets between spouses during a divorce, ensuring that non-employee spouse receives their rightful share without triggering early withdrawal penalties or tax consequences. Number six, hire the right lawyer, not just an aggressive one. An aggressive divorce attorney might seem like the right move, but the right lawyer is the one that understands your needs and will get you to the goal you need.

There are divorce attorneys who are known as sharks, who are extremely aggressive, but that can also be a liability and risk for you that may backfire. For example, if you want an amicable divorce, yes, those do exist, especially if you have kids. A lawyer that's known for building bridges and being reasonable is more likely to get your case resolved sooner.

I've personally seen extremely aggressive attorneys draw out cases longer than they need to be, which ultimately costs you much more money. Be sure to interview a few lawyers before you'd commit. I'd say the most helpful criteria is to find someone who's handled divorces like yours, so don't be shy in the first meeting. Share the details that might be relevant, like how long you've been married, what your ideal situation is.

I mean, really, don't be shy. And if your divorce is relatively amicable, a mediator could save you a lot of money and legal fees. This was a mistake I made. I hired a very cheap attorney, and because he was so cheap, I felt like he cut corners.

For example, he didn't advise me with regard to real estate issues and my ex not taking me off the mortgage. He dropped the ball there and that cost me big. I really wish I would have spent a little bit more money to get someone who would have helped me cover my bases. Number seven, plan for life after divorce. Divorce is not just about getting through the process. It's about what happens next.

Make a new budget, update your will, trust, and other estate planning documents. Adjust your insurance policies and start thinking about rebuilding your financial future. One of the biggest mistakes I see is people forgetting to remove their ex as beneficiaries on their accounts and they unexpectedly pass away and their ex receives everything.

Okay, so that's the money side of things. But as we all know, divorce isn't just financial. It's a full-blown emotional rollercoaster. So let's hear from someone who's been through it in the public eye. You may have seen Kat Sadler from her work as a reporter on E! News. But now with her podcast, Kat Sadler Now, you really get to know her. Today, I sit down with her to get her advice on how to protect your mental health during a divorce. Here she is.

Kat, you have an amazing podcast, Kat Sadler Now, and you used to open the show with this introduction. I'm going to read it to you. You used to say, after a broadcasting career spanning three decades, raising two kids, and dissolving a few marriages, I've learned a thing or two about life, about love, about becoming the best version of ourselves.

Today, I want to talk to you about how you learn those lessons in the wake of divorce. And I want to start with a story you told on your podcast about a driver who was taking you for the first time, your first time covering the Golden Globes, and he totally changed your perspective on the divorce you were going through. Can you tell that story? Oh, sure. Wow.

It's interesting because I hadn't really thought about that story for many, many years. And it wasn't until a recent Golden Globes that I kind of jogged my memory. It was such a seismic moment in my life. So yes, I'm happy to share the story. I was back in 2007 and I was working for the E! Channel, E! Entertainment at the time, and I was heading off to cover

the Golden Globes for the first time in my career, which for a girl from Indiana who had dreamt of going to Hollywood and had engineered this broadcasting career, that was like the epitome of like the creme de la creme kind of opportunity for me. What people didn't know at the time was that I was in the middle of a split with my husband, the father of my kids, Kyle. I'm sure we'll refer to him a couple of times. So I'll just give him a name, Kyle.

But I was heartbroken. You know, professionally, all these wonderful things were happening in my life and being realized for the first time. But at the same time, my family was crumbling. And what was really going on inside of me was just feeling like a failure and feeling just so depleted and exhausted and devastated, really, with what was unraveling in my personal life and what was happening to my family. And so I get into this car with my driver because...

Because on the national level, one of the perks is they send you a card and get you to the big award show. And I had my sweats on. I had my coffee in my hand. And I was heading off to go do my job. And as glamorous and exciting and thrilling as that day seemed to be or appeared to be or I had anticipated it to be,

I really didn't know if I could pull it off. I was the shell of a person. I was, I was felt like I was dying on the inside. And so I get in this car to go to work and I'm kind of,

feeling quite weak. And this, this man, the driver, and for the life of me, I can't remember his name. I think it might be Monroe. He just bestowed upon me like this kind of wisdom for the moment I was in that felt really ordained. Actually, it felt really like this divine energetic moment where I felt like he was sent to me in that moment on that day during that drive for 45 minutes and

where he kind of reframed my idea about my divorce in a new way. He was asking me questions. I was a complete stranger. He was a complete stranger. I started telling him my story because it was so raw and it was so of the moment that I just kind of unloaded on this guy. And he was...

You know, like now Morgan Freeman is popping in my mind because he like he was like playing God. And then what came out of his mouth was even more beautiful. And he just spoke to me in a way which essentially was, you know, did you ever consider that all of this?

happened for a reason and that Kyle came into your life for a reason to have these two remarkable children. And then maybe that job was done. Maybe that's where your story would end with Kyle. And while you have this idea that a family looks a certain kind of way with these four people until the end of time, that maybe that wasn't meant to be your story. And if you can make a kind of peace with that and let go in a, in a,

a freeing way, then this other story that's unwritten for you has all the potential in the world. And I wish for the life of me I could replay that day, but it completely comforted me. And a lot of my

pain melted away in that moment and it gave me the strength to literally go forward into my day and do what I needed to do. So I reflect on that as just a really poignant, profound life experience that really led me on my way on this new path to how we would dissolve our lives together and all of the many choices that we all have in those moments as we move forward and create the next story.

That's powerful. And what I'm hearing is the driver kind of gave you a new perspective. And why do you think that was something that you really needed to hear at that moment? Well, anyone who's been a child of divorce, I mean, divorce is such like a dirty word or it used to be. And it's, you know, no one ever gets married hoping to be divorced. You know, that's not what you go into it.

thinking about. And I had watched my parents divorce and there had been a lot of remarriages in my life. And so had Kyle, by the way, his parents had divorced also. And so I think the reality of one end, it was definitely an end. An ending can be really challenging.

I just, maybe I hadn't considered a more hopeful narrative following all of that. I was still so raw. Like I said, it was still so new. Maybe I would have gotten to that, you know, down the line after grieving and doing work on myself and all those things. But yeah,

I think he circumvented a lot of my own work and just at least planted that seed for me that made me realize that I really did have a choice and I had some power in the situation to create however that was going to look. The reality is over here, but we always in our suffering still have an opportunity to shape ourselves.

things how we want to. We are the co-creators of our lives. I always say that all the time. I didn't know it then. I was only like, this was like almost 20 years ago. I just turned 30. And yeah, it was really beautiful. Hold on to your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back.

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As a lawyer, I know that divorce is obviously a legal process, but it's also emotional. Can you talk a little bit about your emotional arc during that time? I know we just kind of started with you going to the Globes, but then you went through the whole divorce. Can you kind of tell us about how that was emotionally? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Well, and to your point, luckily for me, the procedural formalities of divorce, that was the easy part. Like that was really clean. And I know a lot of people who aren't as lucky who, I mean, I hear some stories and I'm sure, you know, some stories that can be really, really, really harrowing for people. So, so the whole thing was emotional, really, you know, I had mostly, it was my kids, my kids, my kids, I, they were six and two at the time.

And again, I think I had had a rocky experience personally as a child. My parents, my biological mother and father, just, you know, they were angry at each other for years. And so I,

I just didn't want them to have a similar experience growing up. I wanted their birthday parties to be fun. I didn't want there to be animosity or, you know, bitterness. So at first I had to make that kind of decision. And luckily with Kyle right away, that was the one thing we agreed on. Listen, we had some things we had to work through and there was some therapy involved and that kind of thing. But the one thing we definitely agreed on was,

we're going to do this differently. And eventually we're going to have to figure out our co-parenting situation. We're going to have to figure out how that looks, but no matter what, it's a kid's first approach. And so even though of course, the, the unsettled feeling, those emotions of the uncertainty of your future and what your family is going to look like and worrying about kids and worrying how they're going to adapt to the back and forth and all of these things that play into the

the transition, you know, there wasn't a day that went by that didn't

invoke some kind of emotion. So that's going on as the mother, you're just really wanting to protect your kids and make sure that they will be okay through something like this. And mine were quite young. I mean, that really stung looking back. It's still just, it's like, Oh, he was two. Orion was two. I was two when my parents divorced. So it's like, Oh man, are we repeating a cycle here? Is this a pattern? And so again, you have to really forgive yourself, I think for, um,

maybe not meeting a certain kind of standard that you think that you're supposed to set for yourself. And then the other difficult part of my divorce was that I was on TV every single day. I was on set every single day and you're interviewing people and you're on, I mean, as if you're on stage on Broadway, you're presenting yourself to the world and

And I always think back about that time. In many ways, that's what saved me because I didn't really have the option to like not leave my house and stay in bed all day and drink a bottle of wine or whatever to just get through those hard times.

I had to keep going. But at the same time, that can often delay your grieving process, you know, because you're kind of just going through these motions. And that's what I was doing at the time. But still, I think it did. It served me in a good way. I mean, I was able to soldier on through the pain, through the divorce, through all the nitty gritty, because I had a job that I loved that I didn't get to just eject from.

And I have the love of my kids that were nearby and that I do everything for. So yeah, you know what? I got through it. You live through it. Hard times, they come and they go and time is a great healer. And we got to the other side of it.

There's so many powerful things that you mentioned there, but you mentioned some triggering of pain and some triggering of, you know, childhood with going through it with your family, which is very understandable. My husband, his parents divorced when he was three, and we still talk about all of that with them yelling. And so I definitely resonate with that.

I'm curious if there was some things that triggered healing. And you said so many beautiful things about how you weren't going to repeat the pattern and you wanted the birthday parties to be wonderful. Were there things about it that triggered healing for you, whether it was with regard to your relationship with what you went through as a child or in other parts of your life now reflecting back? Without question, the thing that stands out that...

completely has allowed for a letting go and a healing and becoming whole again after that really difficult time was not just saying that we were going to co-parent, but really walking the walk in a beautiful way. I mean, Kyle and I, to this day, now our kids are just turned 20 and turning 24 next week. And we're not only...

good friends who respect each other, but now his wife, who he married only a couple years after we divorced, so she's been stepmom to my boys for decades. I like to say that we consciously uncoupled before Gwyneth and Chris Martin made it a thing because it was about the same time and it was very much the same approach. It's like...

God, we've seen how this can go and we know how it can be. And who does it hurt? It's, it hurts the kids. It's poisonous to hold onto that anger and be contentious. And it's just, it serves no one. And so it wasn't the flip of a switch, but it was definitely baby steps in that first year where it's, you know, it's still a little awkward. It's still, of course, like the, the pain is still new and it's difficult, but we were always, always, always

communicating the best we could. We were kind as much as we could be when other partners came into the mix, there was a real respect level there. And I'll give you an example of that because we had been divorced about a year and Kyle had met Sarah, his now wife, and there was a birthday party. And I remember he called me again, the respect. I mean, God, I feel so fortunate because I know a lot of women don't have this and or men, but it's like,

He called me and he said, I have met someone we've been dating for six months or whatever it was. And I'd really like to bring her to Austin's party. Are you okay with that? And, you know, you can imagine it's like the first, you know, anybody that's not you. And mind you, we'd been together for 12 years. We were college sweethearts. We'd had, you know, we were so close and yeah.

And I just was immediately like, thanks for asking. And sure, that's fine. Bring her to the party. And of course, all my girlfriends are like, oh, what? Oh my gosh, who is she? What's her name? All these things. But I was like, we're moving forward. I mean, I think I luckily had enough emotional intelligence even back then to be like, if we're moving on, you know, what's the past is the past. We're all moving towards our futures. And she could not have been happier

better at that party. She came up to me during the cake cutting and literally said, is there anything you need? Can I help? And I said, yeah, I'm going to cut the cake and you can scoop the ice cream. And it literally started like that. And, and we're friends to this day. We even have a working relationship. And so I think the healing was possible because there really was still

aversion of love there. I mean, it wasn't romantic love anymore and that had ended, but there was love and respect for the mother and father of our kids. And we just set a precedent with anybody who was going to come into our lives that if you can't get on this same page, then you're probably not going to be a part of this family. And it's worked. It's really, really worked. And again, I know that it's rare, but I feel so, so fortunate. I am just here to tell the story that it is possible. It really, really is possible.

One of the things that you shared is your initial moments of going through a divorce and kind of the fears that came up. And for those listeners who maybe they're in the initial part of it, or they're supporting someone that's in the initial part of it, back then, what was your biggest fear? I mean, I keep coming back to the children, but it really was, it was about them. You know, I was afraid that they would feel like they were part of something broken, you

I definitely had some fear when I started dating again. Also, you know, I think I had work to do on finally putting to bed some of my own childhood wounds and then having a failed marriage, which I hate to even call it that. I keep trying to call it something else and a marriage that ended, you know, because it was a lesson. I mean, it really was. Let's bring it back to the first story. It's like,

Kyle came into my life. All of this is just part of my own learning that I'm going to continue to do throughout my lifetime. I'm an eternal student. And that was, that was a major, major lesson for me to learn. But of course those fears were real. And so when I was dating Kyle,

I don't think I had a lot of faith in men there for a while. You know, I've had to kind of learn that a few times since probably. I hear that. Yeah. I think we carry that as, as women often, if you've ever been burnt at all. Yeah.

And not even burn. I'm not even saying like, I'll burn me. But like when things don't go as you planned or how you dreamed or you're ever disappointed in any kind of way or let down by someone that can be really, really hard to put your heart out there again and believe in love again, as cliche as that sounds. But I think I had that fear for a while also after my divorce.

I put myself out there in ways I never expected and did things that I never thought I would expect it that like reflecting back. I think if I had stayed in the marriage, I would never have pushed myself as much into other areas. Can you like looking back? What did you learn about yourself during that time? Well, I learned that I would still know how to kiss another man other than my husband. Yeah.

That was the first thing, because I've heard other women say this. Like if you're with someone for so long, my first fear was like, am I, is it my pride in the body? I don't even know. These lips haven't touched anybody else's lips for like a decade plus. I hope I know how to do that. But I did. That came right back. Man, you know, I don't really think I allowed myself any real like journey of self to

Until my kids got older, honestly, I was so busy with my career. I mean, that is really the truth of it is that that was the season. And I look back now and I'm like, how did I do that? I was a single mom. It was like 50 hours a week of work. It's high pressure and traveling the world, being on red carpets, like everything.

interviewing these A-list celebrities, like the pressure, immense pressure work-wise and crazy hours and weekends and all these things. And then two kids at home and juggling that and figuring out how you're going to get them to school and how you're going to make it to your interview on time. And I mean, and then missing things and missing doctor's appointments and occasions at school and these kinds of things. So I was just in a real season of pulling it all off. I mean, really, I wasn't even...

working out. I wasn't consistently, I mean, I am night and day different today than I was then. And I understand why I hear from a lot of women who I talk with on my podcast about just like

Where's the time? You know, we're always like, you see the jokes now on social media and people are like, there's so much to do and so much to think about and what you're eating and what you're putting in your body and how you're choosing and what you're shopping for and how, you know, getting your kids all exposed to all the things. And then, you know, all the emails from the school, like it was literally all of that. So yeah.

I wasn't like going on retreats around the world and like trying anything new. I was just staying above water. My big philosophy at the time, I actually have a tattoo on my wrist. My big philosophy through that really demanding time in my life was,

Be in the moment. That's how I justified being away from my kids when I had to work and being with my kids when I was, was I was really practicing being present. And when I was with my kids, I was like on the floor eye to eye with my kids. And when I was at work, I had a job to do and I had to not feel guilty about that. And so I was able to navigate that with just the practice of trying to always be in the moment. And that did serve me. It really got me through that.

those wild, wild years. And now that I am an empty nester bar, I have four kids step. They're not, I'm not married to my partner, but it's like we are. And we, he has four kids. So now I'm back to little kids in my life. But until just recently I was an empty nester. And so in these past couple of years, um,

That's really when I've been able to do that kind of exploration of self and go on these adventures or go on these retreats around the world and trying my hot yoga and working out consistently. And I'm just so turned on by becoming the best version of myself and experiencing life at an

optimal level. And so, you know, I think that's the nature of life for all of us. You know, you can't be all the things all the time and there are different seasons that come your way. And I'm really enjoying this time in my life to actually go in a little bit and be more introspective and do those kinds of things for myself. It's, it's a really great feeling. It's one of the best things about getting older. I tell everybody that I'm like, it's actually a

kind of awesome. I have a one-year-old and a four-year-old, so I'm definitely in the season of what you're describing right now. And I think on one of your recent podcasts or the podcast I listened to, you had an intro about being in the now. And I just remember like,

Oh, thank you, Kat. Thanks for saying that. And there's so many moments of in the day, like you said, with me balancing work and, and taking care of them and just being like, okay, like I'm changing my son's diaper right now. I'm going to connect with him. And even if, you know what I mean? It can be just so powerful. It's not so much about the quantity, right? It's about that quality. So I think that's such good advice.

Yes. And it's especially hard for yeah. Mothers, women, your with kids, your age. I know it's so, so hard. We're so much is asked of us all of the time. And the thing is we're so good at doing it. Like we're so capable of multitasking and doing all the things and being in all the places. But yes, I just think if you can really ground yourself and train your mind and have that mindset to just

Be in that moment. Turn on all your senses. Like you're, you, you're, you're getting your diaper. Like, you know, they smell so good. Not the diapers, but the babies. Yeah.

But like really leaning into those moments. I mean, all we really have. I mean, that's the name of my podcast, for God's sakes. I mean, Kat Sadler Now, it's really about the moment and it's all that is promised. It's all that there really ever is. Even the past, we were in the now then. So get comfortable there. I think something that surprised me in my divorce, and I don't know if it was the true with you, was some people's reactions to it that I wasn't expecting. Hold onto your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back.

And now for some more money rehab. I think something that surprised me in my divorce, and I don't know if it was the truth with you, was some people's reactions to it that I wasn't expecting. Like there were certain family members that I was expecting to have a certain reaction that didn't. Like, did you have any family members or friends that were like,

that you had a surprising reaction to or that you were expecting something different? Not that I can remember. You know what? It probably is, Pam, as it was so long ago that I'm like the old brain fog is here and I can't really remember what everybody was thinking at the time. Again, I also think that part of that is because, again, so much is required from us to just get through our days, especially if you have...

people, humans that are depending on you, like that's where my focus was. And maybe that was a great thing because I wasn't distracted by opinions or, I mean, listen, I mean, I suppose that now thinking back, because I was on TV and a public person to some degree, it was newsworthy even, I guess, you know, that I

oh, now she's divorced. Like it's always a hyphenate or it's always something that like follows me now. And, but look, I'm here talking with you about it in a way that I hope is positive. So it's not all bad, but I guess,

That is the difference when there's a Wikipedia page or whatever that lists your whole life and your partners and all the things that's like going to follow you around forever, which it does. And now I've got that cemented in history forever that I have been divorced. I remember posting, I was talking with one of my guests on my show and we posted a clip on TikTok and it was about, we were talking about exes and I had said something like,

Well, with my second husband and like the comments, like people who, you know, didn't know me or whatever, like, can you imagine my second husband? Like they were all just like, you know, trolling me forever. And I was like, that's okay. I mean, I think honestly, again, when I was in my twenties, starting out in television and people started, um,

having opinions long before social media and they would write an email to my television station and say horrible things about how bad my hair was or what an ugly shirt I had on or whatever, like, you know, they hated my voice or whatever it was.

Don't get me wrong. It crushed me. I mean, I was young. I was impressionable. I was just starting out in my career and those kinds of things would totally devastate me. But the great thing about having a broadcasting career or having people who know who you are or whatever, I'm so used to people just

talking shit for lack of a better way to say it, that it's, I, you grow a thick skin and it's actually great because you learn to just deflect all that. And you realize how it's like none of your business, what other people say about you. And so I'm sure that that was in there somewhere where with even the divorce and people's thoughts or opinions, it's like, and I knew that at the core, my intention was still all love, even in a divorce to stay friends with my ex and

and pour into my kids. And so nobody can take that away from me. Yeah, I think that's very powerful. And I think that it sounds like you had already kind of built that muscle of not shutting, even though it still affects everybody, hearing that stuff, but you'd already kind of developed that muscle of, hey, I'm gonna focus on myself. Your opinions are yours and had that practice so that when this happened, it wasn't so...

maybe as intense or maybe it was in the first versus the second, but that,

Did you have support system, friends, family, help or no help throughout the process? And how did that impact you? I have a wonderful family. My mom and I have always been very close. She was really comforting during those times. My sister as well is one of my dearest friends. So when I was going through divorce, she was definitely on speed dial and I did have a close knit group of friends. So yeah,

That was invaluable for sure. Talking about my feelings. And I will say for anyone who's been through divorce knows this, you actually do have some time because your kids for most traditionally are spending some times with their mom or sometimes with their dad. So I did have some,

periods of time where I was able to just be social and let my hair down. I mean, I remember doing that. I wasn't spending my time when the kids were at Kyle's doing anything really deeply cool, but I was having fun. I remember I was trying to have fun because I wanted joy in my life. So I would travel or I'd go on trips with my friend, my girlfriends or

a weekend in Vegas, like literally. So that was for me to feel alive and feel okay and feel like myself. Those were really important times. And I think that people should feel okay doing that. That's

That's so important. Did going through the divorce change the way you think about relationships? The way that I think about relationships has changed over time for sure. I don't know that it was divorce that really contributed to that. I mean, I've been married twice and I have had a handful of other serious relationships since. And those relationships actually...

have the biggest significance on how I now approach relationships because I had some really bad ones. And it's odd that my marriages ended in like, you know, nothing absolutely catastrophic happened. It was just like, it was like letting go in love and like, we can be friends. There's still respect there. This has run its course. We really did try, but it just wasn't going to work out. And then I had some, some relationships,

after that in my 40s that were the worst relationships of my life and so we'd be here all day if i told you the psychology of all that and all the reasons why i think that happened but it was my worst relationship and by worst i mean just unhealthy really really unhealthy that

profoundly changed the way that I regard love and healthy love and romantic adult love and how it's supposed to be. It took me a long time to get there because like I said, you know, my mom was married multiple times. I had then had a couple of marriages. I just don't think I ever really had this healthy love model to me.

The kind of love that's safe, the kind of love that's secure, the kind of love where you can trust someone, the kind of love where there's open communication. Like a lot of those pieces were missing in my more recent relationships. And it took me being very, very mistreated, betrayed, deceit, the whole thing, a very toxic relationship that basically just cued my rock bottom ever and forever.

I had to just go on a real journey and it was during the pandemic and I couldn't go meet my friends out. I couldn't go travel it away. I couldn't go to the bars, you know, whatever it was that would make me like numb out and not feel the pain. And so I had to,

I had to figure out what my part in that really bad relationship was and why I was allowing that kind of treatment and why I kept signing back up again and again for that kind of treatment and re-examine my own self-worth. And so when I decided that to go on that journey and then do some intensive therapy and be alone and not date at all, finally, I

I had, that's when I had a real transformation and my real healing journey began. So it took me decades of trying to navigate relationships, not really knowing what it was that I had to work on for myself to summon in the kind of partner that I would really want for my life. And we finally got there. We finally got there. So I,

It's a, it's a, it's work. It's, it's being honest with yourself. It's choosing your, it's self-love. It's consistently showing up for yourself and being the person that you deserve to be for yourself. And then it's funny how, when you get that right, then you attract a like person as your partner. And that's, that's the situation I'm in today with Greg.

Yeah, I think there's probably listeners on right now that are going through something similar where they either are currently in a very unhealthy relationship or they've gotten out of an unhealthy relationship and kind of hearing your perspective is so powerful.

I used to, as a prosecutor, prosecute domestic violence. And I didn't realize how prevalent domestic violence was in our society until I became... Until I interned at the DA's office in law school and then...

really saw that it really goes across every socioeconomic, every race, every culture. It's so prevalent in society. And so I kind of went on my own journey asking a lot of those questions. And then I went through the same thing where I did allow some toxic, horrible relationships to

that were way worse than my divorce, right? So thank you for sharing that. There were a few things that you said that really drew me in. And I think one is that level of shame. And there is this level of wanting to take responsibility and ask yourself and get to the other side of that. There's also this level where it becomes so unhealthy, right? Where you're creating more damage to yourself that you don't want to do.

What do you think really made a difference getting yourself out of that? It was a lot of things. And I'm so grateful that I had support. I had really good friends that I could talk me off the ledge. Often the people that love us see it so clearly. And

And if you're in that kind of really unhealthy situation, there is a type of emotional abuse and brainwashing that happens where you are a shell of your former self. I mean, it's like you were just talking, you see these types of cases all the time and everybody else is like, well, why wouldn't the, why wouldn't she leave? Like, what is she sticking around for? And you, you don't operate like who you used to. And so that's the whole grooming process is to make you off

off kilter and to stop trusting yourself. And so when you lose the trust of yourself, you're not making the kind of decisions that the healthy whole you would be making. And so it's a really slippery slope and a dangerous place to be in. But luckily I had friends who would tell me, tell it like it is. And

not let me call back or not let me text back and hold me accountable. And if I thought I was gonna, they'd help me out. And it is like an addiction where you're addicted to this kind of love or this kind of cycle. And so that was very helpful in those critical moments. And then again, I finally, thankfully, through another friend was referred to the first therapist in my life that I stayed with, that I was honest with.

I kind of call him the crisis therapist because there was some pretty dicey situations that I found myself in. And he was, again, also on speed dial. And it's crazy to talk about now to even think that I was in that kind of situation because it still kind of sounds crazy.

Unbelievable to me. I kept showing up when I didn't want to talk. Even if I didn't want to go to therapy, I'd still show up. And I just, and I, you can't lie to your therapist. I think a lot of us like even go to therapy, but then are you really telling all the things? And are you really like being that vulnerable? And so I,

I think when you're in so much pain, eventually you just surrender and that's when the healing can begin. So between the therapy and my friends, and then putting that into practice was really interesting too, because if you really decide and declare the kind of love you want, I took at least a year off. I was just completely not dating at all. But when I decided to get back out there again, it was really important to me to act as if

I meant what I believe. It's like one thing to say, I want this kind of partner. And I, you know, but it's like a different thing after you've,

literally behaved one way for so long to try to enact these new, new ways of loving or these new boundaries you have for yourself or these new virtues that matter most to you. And if you don't get those, are you going to stay? Are you going to leave and remembering that you have the power? It's not a pick me. I want to be loved. It's a, I hope you're good enough and I,

You check all these boxes because this is what I want for my life. Not that I'm going to settle for, but this is what I will accept and I hope is additive to my life. And if not, I'd rather just be with myself and love myself and keep it moving. It's a really, really good place to get. It's hard. I remember when I did start dating, I definitely had some tests and I was so proud of myself when I would just like cut it off.

And then I remember like this one, the one guy in particular, I was like, oh, this is the same kind of guy, the chemistry, the sex appeal. There's too many reasons that this looks like really attractive. But I know that that's not the formula anymore. I know where that's going to end up. I know about the liars. I know about the cheaters. I know what that looks like and what I use to gravitate to that.

And to have the love of self to be able to go, yeah, you can stop calling me. And then you hear, what, what, why, what? And I'm like, no, it's just not working out for me because I just knew where it was going to go. And that was a real breakthrough for me because I'd never been able to do that in the past. And yeah, that's when I knew I was...

I was healed. Feels great. I love that. And I think just the having the boundaries, being clear, reaching out for support, and then that level of clarity of what you're looking for. Once you take that time to do that, there's so much power of that. And I know when I first started dating after my divorce,

I was so young and naive and I was just like, love is, you know, it's not definable. And I went out with a whole bunch of jerks and losers. And then I was like, okay, I need to get my stuff together. I need to think about what I'm really looking for in life. You get your heart broken. Once you get that level of clarity, it's so much easier to attract it into your life.

And to not settle for anything else. So that was really, really powerful. I feel like a lot of people feel a pressure to bounce back quickly after a divorce, after a breakup. What would you say to someone who feels like they're behind in starting over? That there's no such thing. And there's no such thing as being behind when it comes to starting over. There's no timetable. It is a very, very personal thing.

journey. And so don't compare yourself to others and how they did it or they've done it.

I think your biggest guide is that instinct you have inside. I call it my, just my compass. It's there for a reason. I like to say it's my sixth sense. Pay attention, get intimately familiar with how it feels. You just said something interesting that, Oh, I thought love is like love. Like love isn't, isn't a feeling in my opinion. Love is,

doing, love is being, love is action, love speaks volumes, but it's much, much more than a feeling. There is a knowing, I think, that we all have within ourselves. And it's very easy and very human of all of us to lie to ourselves. I mean, and oh, it's fine. Or oh, if I just call him back that one time, or oh, if I just...

don't stick to my plan to go to the gym or all these, these little like teases that we have that take us away from what it is. We really, really want for ourselves and deserve to have in our lives. And so I think if you can really tune in, let that be your guide. If you're going through a divorce and just sit with it, you know, sometimes it can feel like just the void you're in the void and there is so much uncertainty and

But the quieter you get, the longer you stay with it, I think it's better. I think that is your healing process. If you rush that, it's going to bubble up in some way later down the line, and then you're going to have to start all over again. So don't we only want to go through this once? Probably. So just stay with it as hard as it is.

And it's hard, you know, it is hard, but just allow that for yourself would be my advice. I mentioned your amazing podcast, Kat Sadler Now, where you have powerful conversations at the intersection of wellness and so many other parts of our lives, business, relationships, personal growth. Do you think having to navigate challenges in your life has affected how you approach these big conversations on your show? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know,

I feel so fortunate. I swim around in gratitude all the time that I just like, I am forever practicing gratitude. I love being in a state of just appreciating, again, all those little moments and the now and all these things. But I definitely have had adversity. I mean, I'm writing my book right now, Pam. I've got stories, okay? It wasn't a perfect anything. My life has not been, you know, it sounds rosy. And sometimes when I'm like,

I'm friends with my exes. It sounds so nice. And I know that's not like the norm for people, but what I do want to say is I, I have had adversity and I've had some really dark times and I've been exposed to some very dysfunctional things. And looking back again, I think that has allowed me to have conversations with people from all walks of life, from all backgrounds, through all different kinds of experiences, because I've, I've lived a pretty colorful life myself and it allows me to connect with people and have these conversations. So yeah,

I'm grateful for the adversity I've had. I do believe that suffering is a teacher and it doesn't, you know, it doesn't mean it's easy, but it is there for us. You know, that is the, the nature of life. It is this river and it flows and it's constantly changing and it's fluid and there will be highs and there will be lows. And if you can just remember that and kind of find your peace within all of that, regardless of what the weather is doing, um,

It's a beautiful place to be. Well, thank you so much, Kat. Thank you for having me. Great questions.

Divorce is tough, no way around it. But if you go in with both eyes open, financially and emotionally, you can come out stronger. Whether you're navigating this yourself or supporting someone who is, I hope today's episode gave you some clarity. And if you like this episode, share it with a friend who might need it. It's been so fun guest hosting Money Rehab this week. I hope you found these three episodes helpful.

And as a parting gift for you, I've got two incredible freebies for you. First, I want to send you a free copy of my best-selling book, Legally Ever After, your guide to securing your future and protecting what matters most. And that's not all. We're launching something huge in May, an exclusive new app designed to make growing and protecting your wealth easier than ever. As a listener, you have the chance to join our Insider Beta group and get early access before anyone else.

Claim your free book and beta invite now by heading to lawmotherco.com forward slash money rehab or clicking the link in the show notes. And if you liked what you heard this week, follow me at lawmotherco on Instagram for more tips on protecting your wealth. I'll see you there. Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. Our researcher is Emily Holmes.

Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram at moneynews and TikTok at moneynewsnetwork for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.