Big Dreams Require Big Sacrifices
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, George Camel, also my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour. And we are here taking your calls, so we'll chat about your life, your money, your relationships, your career, anything and everything. So give us a call. A

First, we have Elizabeth all the way up in Canada. Hi, Elizabeth. Welcome to the show. Elizabeth? Hi. There you are. I was worried sick. Okay. We were so concerned. How are you? Yes. Hi, I'm good. How are you guys? We're doing great. How can we help? Okay.

Okay, I'm really nervous. I'm going to pretend like you guys are just my buddies and I'm talking to you from down below. Don't worry, we're extra nice to Canadians. We love Canada, so you're great. You're in good hands. Okay, all right. So I need to know if I'm being a baby and if I have wrongful resentment. I am a Christian, so I want to make sure that I have nothing between God and I, and I'm just going to give you guys a quick snapshot. Okay.

So I'm wondering, am I wrong to feel resentment? I come from a family of four girls. My husband and I are about to enter baby step number three in about two weeks, Lord willing. So we're really excited about that. Congratulations.

Thank you. Yeah. So my parents have been renting for my sister and her husband for about nine years. They pay well above market rent for our area and they take care of their kids before and after school. They fix things around their house.

They do all their yard work, et cetera. So I've been asked to be the executor of their will. I know the will is going to be divided equally between my sisters and I, so four girls, so divided equally into four. And

And this is the part, it really bugs me. I'm wondering, like, I feel like in some ways my sister has already gotten her share of the will, and it's not even about the money. Like, I just, I'm concerned that my parents are being taken advantage of, but my parents are happy to do all these things for them, and it's kind of like they had this agreement a long time ago that they would take care of their kids. And I don't know. I feel like, am I wrong to feel in some way that...

resentful towards my sister that maybe she is being taken advantage of by my um that they're taking advantage of my parents uh no not necessarily where where are you like and from a from a physical location are you close to them i'm about 40 yeah 40 minutes away from them like and um yeah so why did they originally rent from her and not another sibling

You know what? And the thing is, they do. They're fine. Like they make over my parents make over 100,000 a year. They could have bought a house even by now. Right. Like they I don't know why they decided to rent from them. I'm not sure I wasn't part of that conversation and that kind of deal they made with watching their kids. It almost feels like this is between your sister and your parents. Yes. And, you know, if your parents feel taken advantage of, they need to have a conversation with your sister. Right.

But they seem fine. Correct. Yeah, they seem fine with it. Exactly. The only person upset here is you. I know. I'm the baby, aren't I? No, you're not. I think your emotions are valid. You feel hurt. Yeah, I would feel the same way. So is it bad to be resentful? Is it a sin? No. No.

if you let it eat you alive, you're just drinking your own poison. And so that's the part that worries me more is how do we get you to let go of this and go, this is between them. And, you know, I feel like this is a confession. We're the priests here. She's coming to us with this, but I do think there's a level of this where you go, listen, we're all going to get our fair share. We're all going to be fine financially. They're adults. They can make decisions on their own volition. And yes, it can also hurt that your sister got the, you know, the long end of the stick and you got the short end.

We're a sibling order, Elizabeth. Where are you and where is she? So I'm the second oldest and she's the third oldest. So she's right after me in the order. And I know like I've spoken to even my older sister and then the baby of the family. And they they they've always they seem like, OK, like that. They have a pretty good gig happening. Right. And and I know I have to keep.

checking my heart and the thing is like both my husband and I have great jobs we've made great headway in terms of paying off our debt and I know we'll be okay and even my husband always says you know I he's like we're fine like we wouldn't even want my parents to live with us right even that yeah yeah yeah it's not the it's not the actual help that you're longing for it's almost more of this connection of feeling like man I feel like we're working so hard over here

And not only has anything never really been extended to us, but also never even asked maybe. Right. So there's a level of probably just of hurt feelings of not feeling cared for and seeing your parents still in that parental role for another sibling and not for you. So there's like this like kind of abandonment, like what? Hi, I'm over here. You know, I'm not getting attention. Right. Was that similar growing up for you guys from like just say from like a personality standpoint? Yeah.

Oh, that's a good question. Like I, um, I've always been like more of the older sister, like I think with even my older sister with all of them. So that was that part, that part's been, um, So you were more independent, you needed less attention in general because you were more self-sustaining. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. And I have like, I have, I have four kids and my sisters have two and it's like, but I'm, I'm like, that's what I wanted for me. I love to be independent.

like busy and, you know, and we've done fine. And I don't know. I would you want to trade places with your sister today?

No, I think there's our answer. I think that just gives you perspective to know you're only seeing the parts you're jealous of. You don't see the other parts where they go, oh, my gosh, I just want my own space. I wish they would. We don't know what's happening on the other side, good or bad. And so it feels like you're festering on this, making up stories and a narrative in your head that they've abandoned you. And I think it's I think you should have a conversation with them if you feel that way.

Otherwise, I would just let it go and move on with your life and we'll all be friends and you'll get your inheritance. Now, if you're getting zero inheritance and you put in all this work, I'd go, that is unfair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But everyone's getting their equal share. They just have a different situation. Yeah, and I think it's less about the money. I think it's the relational aspect in it all.

For you. Yeah. The hurt that's there. So, so yeah. So I think that's, yeah. I mean, yeah, George is right. I think if there's anything that needs to be said for you to say for yourself that you need something, that's fine. But don't go, if you do have a conversation, I would not go in with the motivation of somehow I'm going to change the situation or I'm going to control, I'm going to say this so that my parents,

will then do X, Y, and Z. Like, you know what I mean? That is the whole... I mean, I feel like that's an issue that happens all the time where we think like, okay, I'm going to go into the conversation and what I say is going to change what they're thinking or what they're doing. And you just can't control them, right? They're still going to do it. But if you, Elizabeth, do have...

things within you that like, you're like, I just need to verbally say this for me, regardless of what happens, like for my healing, I need to say these things out loud, then that is, then maybe that is a conversation you guys need to have. Or maybe Elizabeth, you kind of just like read the cards, own that, yeah, this hurts and this isn't fun, but there's also a level of

I'm an adult. And I and I, you know, you just said you would not change your situation. You wouldn't trade places with her. Right. So. So, no, I don't think you're being a baby. I think that's shameful talk. I wouldn't say that by any means. I think you're hurt. And I think that's totally fine. Right. And so what we do with that, I think, is what's important. So I don't want the resentment, like George said, that eats that eats away at your life and your happiness. And so there's like.

this level of acceptance with our family and dynamics that I think the quicker we can get to the acceptance part. Yeah, it's like five stages of grief. Maybe you write a letter, maybe you give it to them, maybe you just rip it up. But I think just getting it out on paper would help you move through this instead of just wrestle with it. And that's such a prime example, George, of how with relationships and money and family dynamic, it's really about the actual money, right? It's about the relationship and the people that are handling it that can be hurtful. So Elizabeth, thanks for the call.

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Hey, so I've got a car problem for you guys. A little bit under two years ago, I purchased a diesel F-250 for around $8,200 that I've been using to run my small handyman business.

And this thing has just been giving me so much trouble over those last two years. Over the last two years, I've spent $7,800 on top of that in maintenance. I know, quite a bit. And it's kind of been getting out of control more recently to where now I need another probably $1,500 to fix.

to fix this thing and get it, get it moving again. So what I'm asking is how you would kind of handle the situation. If you're me, this is starting to now affect my clients to where I'll have to push off my schedule a little bit because I don't have the truck up and running and that's costing me money there. And I can't continue to keep paying, you know, 325 a month in maintenance. And that number is, you know, kind of growing at this point. So I'm just wondering, I know you guys are against leases. Um,

I don't exactly have the money to buy a new car. I also really don't want to go down this road again and put, say, $10,000, $15,000 into a truck and then just end up buying a truck with all kinds of issues. I mean, this last time I did take it to a mechanic, have him check it out beforehand, and he kind of okayed it. But I don't know much about cars. Cars are not my forte anymore.

I've kind of gotten killed over this whole thing, to be honest. Yeah, well, it's frustrating that you put almost what the car is worth back into maintenance, right? And it's still breaking down. It hasn't fixed the issue. So, no, your frustration is...

totally legitimate. But also, I don't want because of our frustration to make a stupid financial move, especially when it comes to cars, because George and I, we talk about this a lot on our shows and Smart Money Happy Hour, but how, you know, cars and car payments, car leases, all of that is one of the biggest wealth killers in America. It's the trap that people get in. So even though your frustration is legitimate, I want to make sure your solution is as well. Yeah. What year is this truck? How long have you had it for?

So I've had it for probably 22 months. I believe I bought it in July about two years ago. The truck had 139,000 miles when I bought it. It's right around 150,000 miles now. So I live in kind of a small beach town community and most of my jobs are not too far. So I don't put crazy miles on this thing each year. Did you do a pre-purchase inspection on the truck?

Uh, sort of, I took the truck while I was on my test drive. I took it to a mechanic and had him inspect it. And I said, Hey, I'm thinking about paying around eight grand for this truck. Do you think that's worth it based on what you see? Is there anything that I should really be aware of? Essentially? I told him, I was like, I don't want to buy it and have a bunch of maintenance. I was like, I just want a truck. That's going to run. Give me from point A to point B. It doesn't look pretty. I mean, it's two different colors, but, uh, you know, it was getting the job done. So I sort of took it to get a pre-inspection. Does that make sense?

Okay. I'm trying to figure out what went wrong here where you poured the eight grand into it, and was there anything kind of red flags along the way? What is it worth today if you tried to sell it private party?

So I've had it listed out there on the market for $4,000, and I've had people hit me back between $1,500 and $2,500. That being said, I haven't met with any of those people in person. I haven't actually gotten them to come out and take a look at the truck. So I can't imagine this thing's worth more than $2,000, to be honest with you. How is that possible? Less than two years ago, you paid $8,200, and you fixed it up. Where did you buy it from, Trevor? A private party or a dealership?

I did buy it from a dealership. And to your point, I have probably made some mistakes here, at least in terms of the purchase. I probably should have been more aware. Yeah. Yeah. So you probably overpaid is what you're thinking because of the condition it was in. Obviously, it wasn't in a great condition. It should have been probably a $5,000 truck.

Yes. I mean, I 100 percent agree with you. Mistakes were definitely made here on my end. Sure. Which is also why I'm very hesitant getting back into this game. That's kind of why I'm calling you guys, because I don't want to make this mistake again. This has been, you know, I'm not going to say one of the biggest mistakes of my life. No, but it's frustrating. It's legit frustrating. Yeah. I mean, every month, if you're pouring money into this thing and it keeps breaking, it's not dependable and you're using it for your work legitimately. Right. Not even just getting to and from work. It is your work.

It is. Exactly. Yeah. So making sure that this is a sustainable idea. OK, do you. Yeah. Financially, where are you at, Trevor? Do you have any money saved? Anything that's not in retirement? I'd rather not acknowledge that if we don't have to. I have money in retirement and I do have some other money outside of that. We're trying to figure out if you have enough money to go buy a truck in cash. Do you have ten thousand dollars?

Yeah, I do. Okay. Okay, well, you can go buy the truck. So I would, this time, do a bunch of research, do a pre-purchase inspection, maybe go private party, maybe go independent used dealership and make sure that they're well-reviewed. So you're going to do your due diligence this time, and what you're not going to do is go lease a brand new truck because you don't want issues.

Yeah, because there are... That's the dumbest thing you could do. Yes. Yeah, that was not on the table. Yeah, unlike your experience, there are cars and trucks out there that go way past the mileage that you're in that are in fine condition, right? Like you said, they're not pretty. It's not like it's like top of the line everything by any means, but it should get you to point A to point B and stay together and hold together, and this is not, so... We've all had a toxic ex, and so this will be your future toxic ex. It doesn't mean all women are like this. It's just the one that you dated...

She was something else. She was something. She did a lot of work, didn't she? You'll look back and laugh, but you've got the money, and so I would just really start doing your research. What are you making from this handyman business? What's your income per year? It's close to zero. Essentially, it covers my living expenses. Do you make $50,000 a year, $100,000 a year? I'm going to go between $24,000 and $36,000 a year, somewhere in that range. Are you working full-time on top of that? No, sir. I'm confused. Okay.

You're making like $12 an hour in this business. You could go work retail and make more.

Yeah, yeah. I definitely agree with you. So I worked in the corporate world for a while, and I made a little bit of money, saved up, and I decided I wanted to go pursue this. So I make pretty good money while I work, but I've only been in business for about a year and a half. I'm 26 years old, and I can live off $24,000 to $36,000. I really believe that I could grow this to where I'm making around $100,000 a year in due time, but I probably only work consistently 20 to 30 hours a week. So I somewhat sacrifice...

a full work schedule with a little bit more free time to where i'm able to learn and and do other things so yeah i'm kind of investing myself long term i do understand that this might not be the most positive economic play right now but i do believe in myself to be able to make this work more down the road and you're not going to have a lot of time to put in and trevor you're not going into debt for your living expenses you're able to cash flow everything you're not like deep in credit card debt

Yes, I'm pretty intelligent and savvy when it comes to that. And yes, I have, I mean, I do have some credit card debt right now revolving. Not that I paid any interest on. I know that sounds bad, but I've paid zero interest in credit cards ever. So essentially, I just have, I run my monthly bills through my credit cards. But you can't pay the bill in full. No, I can't pay the, yeah, no, I have no issues paying the bills in full. Why haven't you paid it in full? You said as a, like, do you have a balance you're carrying month to month?

For less than 30 days, yes, sir. Okay. Well, that's a call for another day about how we would recommend running your business. But, man, I'm telling you, you run that thing with a debit card, you're going to be spending differently. That's fair. That's a good point. So I would be – you're 26, you're single. I'd be working full-time because you have goals, right? You have future goals. You want to buy a home one day? You want a nicer truck that's not giving you issues? You have a home? Yes, sir. You own it free and clear? Yes, sir.

Uh, no. Oh, okay. You have a mortgage. No, I haven't. So what I'm getting from you, Trevor, is you did well in the corporate world. What was well? What was your best year when you were working besides you're doing this? What were you making? Um,

Well, okay. Not that well, but I made $80,000. Okay. That's amazing. So, so I, I think I, I, I like can picture Trevor. He's in West Palm beach, working the corporate world, working 50, 60 hours, making 80 grand. He's like, what is this life? What am I doing? So you quit, you saved up money is what I heard you say earlier, right? You have savings and retirement and you're doing all of that. And you're like, you know what? I'm going to just pump the brakes. I'm going to enjoy life a little bit, start my own business, you know,

Get an $8,000 mechanic truck and start my own business and slowly grow it and all the things. And I don't think anything in and of itself is wrong. I want to make sure that you're doing all of this and able to support yourself and your business with cash because long-term, that's going to set you up. And if this business...

isn't moving faster in the next 12 months. You know, to George's point, you can make more doing something else just from a time perspective too. So some things to think about. But to answer your original question, Michael, Trevor, yeah. I'd go buy a truck cash. Yeah, for sure. Get a $10,000, $12,000 great truck and yeah, continue living your beach Florida life. Trevor, thanks for the call. ♪♪♪

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Go to Yrefy.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Brianna in Illinois. Is there ever an appropriate time to stop investing? I'm 32 and I'd like to invest up to $150,000 in a 401k with an annual rate of return of 10%. At 60 years old, your calculator says I would have nearly $3 million to retire with without investing anything additional.

If I understand correctly, this will generate $300,000 of interest annually to live off of and still be able to leave the original $3 million to my family. This seems more than reasonable to live off of, though I know things will be more expensive due to the cost of living, but I'll have less expenses. My thought was, why would I continue to invest? I could apply some of the die-with-zero principles Rachel has mentioned and give more to my children during the times they need it most if I stop when I have $150,000 in my retirement account.

Wow, this is very thought through, Brianna. Thank you for this question. Yeah, it is. I got to really think through this. Yeah, so the Die With Zero book, I've mentioned that I've read it, and I really like some of the stuff. I mean, some of the things were really interesting that he talks about. I did say I didn't agree with 100%. So I don't think, and when you kind of get to the end of the book, he kind of mentioned, like, there's a little bit of this feeling of like, okay, doesn't mean like you like truly die with zero, like that the goal isn't to like,

Because you can't predict your death, right? So it's not like, oh, we're going to just like... If you knew exactly when you would die, that would help. That's right. Most people don't. That would be, yes. So that's not the theory. So if you leave money to your kids, which we talk about, you know, a wise man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. It says that in scripture. So there's something about that legacy that I am not against by any means. But the idea is if you do this stuff early and you start to build wealth and you pay off your home...

And you do have a surplus from a high income and you're maxing out investments. Like at what point is it just saving to save? Right. And so I think that that is a good question to ask. And I don't know, Brianna, kind of I'm going to assume you're done with everything because I would want you to pay off your house before any of this other discussion starts to happen. But for those who have.

you can kind of start thinking, okay, yeah, I mean, if I get to the point that I can max out 401ks and all of that is, should I maybe shift after that to investing in things that are not tied up till I'm 59 and a half so that you have investments that are growing that you can get to sooner without penalty, right?

to then maybe help your children if there's enough surplus there when they're 25 or 26. And if you want to help with a down payment or you want to actually use your money in this life to help your kids when they do need it most in their 20s and 30s, I believe, is that a reasonable option? So all that to say, I think there are some ways if you are doing what you're doing and you're maxing out. I mean, she says invest into $150,000 savings.

Oh, maxing it out at, okay. Well, she says $150,000 in a 401k. I wouldn't let the number of $150,000 just having that in a 401k and leaving it. I wouldn't. I would still be investing 15% of my income and still following that. But again, if you want to shift from investing in retirement funds after you max out a Roth or max out a 401k, if you have that high of an income,

to then invest in other things that you can get to before retirement, I would be totally on board with that. Does that make sense? It does. My confusion remains with the invest up to $150,000, earn a 401k. You can't do that at once.

You know what I mean? You can't just throw $150K in a 401K. So I wonder if she's saying that because it's like $22,000. Is that it? $23,000 is the max? Yeah, she's saying I do this from 32 to this age and then I stop. What would that happen? You know, and I haven't crunched the numbers myself to see if this is accurate. And the 10% is just the average. You're not going to just get that every year. So you're not just going to see $300,000 show up in that account every year. There might be years where it loses money. There might be times where you get more than that. And so we don't know what the future holds. And because of that,

I'm kind of a glass half full kind of guy and go, well, I'm just going to invest more. I'd rather have too much than not enough. Right. Totally. That's a good problem to have. I can give more. I can spend more. I can, you know, bless my kids more with that money. So I would continue investing because you have the margin to do it. And again,

In the same breath, enjoy your life. Spend some of it. Give a lot of it. And so I think the balance is important there. Otherwise, you get a flat tire. Yeah, I'm held up. Yes, she's going to put in $150,000 in her 401k and then stop and then just let it grow. And I would not do that. I don't think that's a wise plan. I would still be putting money in my 401k every single year. And if you have the income, again, to max it out.

That's amazing, right? I would be doing that. And then if you're beyond that, then you can look to say, hey, how can I get creative with this investing and not just stick with a 401k where it's tied up till I'm 59 and a half. And at 32, you just truly don't know what life is going to throw your way. So I'd rather just keep building for the future, knowing that- At 32, yes, yes. I mean, you still got potentially 60, 70 years. Totally, yes. Yeah, totally agree. Who knows? We might have hyperinflation.

One day, a loaf of bread is going to be like rent. You're like, oh my gosh, I should have invested more. What are we doing? What are we doing? All right, let's go to the phones. We got Jeff in Salt Lake City. Hey, Jeff. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you so much. It's good to be here. Yes, we're glad you called. How can we help? So three weeks ago, I'm 46 years old. Three weeks ago, my wife and I paid off our house. Whoa. Jeff, congratulations. Thank you. Honestly, I'm a therapist, so I use these words, but it's a weird, open, vulnerable feeling. It's just one of those things you never thought you'd get, especially the family and finances I came through. My wife's

His parents were immigrants from Holland post-World War II, so they were very frugal and smart with their money, so we came from different worlds. But honestly, you know, how we did it is if we had a little extra money, we just threw it at it. But then our payment was like $1,254, and for years we've just been paying $1,700. And it's funny how...

How much is the house worth? Probably $800 now. That's amazing. Jeff, well done. Incredible. What's your question today?

So the 1700 that we've been using, I mean, I've been limping the car along for like 20 years, literally on May 6th, tomorrow, it'll be 20 years. I've been driving that car. We've withheld putting carpet downstairs. Like we have 600,000 invested and saved right now and just letting that grow. And we keep contributing, you know, 15% or more like with that.

Yes, yes, and yes.

I would do it all. And you can increase investing at this point beyond the 15%. You can increase your giving and you can increase your spending. And so I would absolutely be now cash flowing all those upgrades you wanted to do to the car, to the house, on top of investing more. You should have the margin to do with that $1,700. Plus, you probably have more margin where that came from.

Yeah, it's interesting. Once you start working on that stuff, how you just feel blessed. Like I can't even tell you how the Lord's just taking care of us. It's an amazing feeling. Well, you guys have been so diligent as well, right? So, I mean, that's...

That's incredible. But yeah, Jeff, I would make, you know, yeah, the next goal probably upgrading the car. If there's some house stuff around that you guys make a list and make like a three to four year, you know, by the time we're 50, what do we want life to kind of look like? And I would be using that mortgage payment for those things. And then once you kind of have some of that settled,

then you can look and be like, okay, yeah, let's invest more. Let's be giving more. I mean, all of it. But yeah, there's some upgrades you guys could be doing here in the next couple of years that you've kind of held off is what it sounds like to get this house paid off. Yeah, just sacrifice just to get it done. And it feels good. You know, we're still alive, but...

I want to be totally done with work by the time I'm 60 and do some other things, but I'm almost 47, so hopefully I'm on the track to do that. Yeah, I would be tracking all of that. Hey, are we on track for this goal of retiring at 60 with our retirement? Are we on track to upgrade the car in the next year with the sinking fund in the budget? Are we on track to replace the carpet in the next six months? So start to outline all those goals and make it real in the budget with a line item. That way you don't feel guilty about using that money. You already have the goal. That money had a name already. It's not, oh, I feel bad.

So the hardest part for you, Jeff, truthfully, is going to be reversing this gazelle intensity sacrifice life and going, oh, we can breathe. We can have fun. We can upgrade the car. We don't deserve this car. We've been driving the beater for 20 years. Jeff, drive the nice car, man. Live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually...

have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term Life Insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Buying or selling your home, it's a really big deal. It's probably the largest purchase your home that you'll make in your lifetime. And when you're selling it, you want to make sure you get exactly what you can for it. That's why you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the best deal with the right price. So the Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find a top agent that you can trust to

who will make your home a blessing, not a burden. And it's easy. You can just compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the one that you want to work for or work with. So find a local trusted real estate pro for free at ramseysolutions.com slash agent, or click the link in the description if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. Up next, we have Sierra in British Columbia. Hi, Sierra. Welcome to the show.

Hi there, how are you? Hi, we're doing great. How are you?

Oh, fantastic. I think it's a day of Canada. So thank you for having me on the show. We did. We had a Canadian earlier, so it's good that we're back. That's right. So, you know, I understand that you guys promote outrageous giving and I am in a position in my life where I'm able to do so. But I, you know, I also think about cheerfully giving and where do you draw the line? So I recently...

Had a niece who reached out to me to help her with her down payment on a new apartment. She did state that she just found out she was pregnant. She hadn't told anyone, but just shared that with me, but has a past of asking a lot of family members, including me in the past for money, potentially for drugs and bad boyfriend experiences, um,

And I feel like there's a bit of manipulation in terms of making sure I'm the only one who's been told about her pregnancy where we don't really have a solid relationship either. But my sister, her mom had passed away when she was seven. And unfortunately, dad and stepmom didn't treat her well. So I feel some sort of an obligation. And like I said, I'm in a position to. But where do you draw the line?

Where do you draw the line on being carefully giving and sort of that nagging feeling? Sure, yeah, because you don't want to enable, and that's a little bit of the feeling with this situation. So not every chance we have to give is going to be the right situation to give just because the opportunity is there doesn't mean that we actually have to take it.

And I think this would be a situation that, you know, finding that balance between helping and enabling, you know, on this show, we are always teetering on that line because a lot comes into play, right, to decide that actual boundary. There's not this like hard and fast rule. But I think what you have to discern in the situation is how can you best help her? And I think acknowledging, you know, her situation is hard, right? And I mean, I think there is a level of like, yeah, if she's not done any labor,

level of healing or growth like having having a parent die at a young age like that and then being in a toxic situation growing up it's kind of like yeah of course this is probably her road right unless she decides to do something different and I think that's would be your hope as her aunt and

is that she can start to make different choices with her life. Because if she continues to be consistent in these choices, she's going to keep getting what she's been getting. And it's not a fruitful, peaceful life, right? She's not feeling that. So when it comes to the financial side of it, you know, how can you best love her well and help but not enable is the big question. Yeah.

Right. So one of my thoughts was, Hey, happy to help, but I'd like to directly pay your potential landlord. Um, yes. Yeah. You know, when you said down payment, is she trying to buy a house? It's going to the right place. No, it's, it's for an apartment. So you know how you put first and last month's rent. Oh yeah. Um,

I do think that is one of the best ways to help is to do it directly because you don't know if she's going to use this for something else. So say, yeah, I'd be happy to help. Give me the landlord's name. I'll work with them directly to handle the deposit. Okay. So you could do it that way. You can also say no. That's also an okay answer. I don't know that anyone's told her no.

Yeah. And, you know, she has no one else. Like, I think a lot of people have said no, but because of her bad behavior previously. Yeah. And yeah. She just moves on to the next person. And Bank of Sierra was up next. That's right. And what's your relationship like with her? Are you involved in her life at all? Or is it just you hear from her when she needs money? We've...

We kind of go on and off. So, you know, dad had cut us out of their life. We held financial money from when my sister passed that it wasn't to be given until they were 21. So when we reconnected when they were both her and her brother were 21 to give them the money, they, you know, they were told that we stole the money. But that wasn't the case.

Yeah. It's a horrible, horrible. I mean, I could, it would take me days, but, um, anyways. Yeah. And so they did get the money. Um, and at that point we thought we were sort of, you

Oh, boy.

You know, when she asked, I said, I'd love to buy your groceries, but can I take you to the grocery store? And then she wouldn't respond to you. Okay. There you go. I think this is your way out is to start giving directly. And if she says nope, then you know the red flags were there and you did the right thing and your conscience stays clean. Yeah. And Sierra, what George said earlier too, like I do want you to have permission that this is your money and you want to see it being used properly.

In the best wisest way, right? I mean, I think there is a responsibility there. And and I'll say with the caveat, you know, just because there's a family member who is in need and is asking does not mean you automatically have to or you're a terrible person, right? So you could have your own conviction of that you don't want it right that you don't want to give or your heart maybe and again, I think this is up to you. This is not a right or wrong. I think it's just two different options. It's either like I don't feel good about this. I don't the responsibility doesn't feel right to me.

I don't like it. And I just don't feel good engaging it. So that's that is one option. And then the other is that you love her and you're like, No, I do want to be able to help. I just want to do it in the right way. So that right way to me would be going straight to the landlord and helping with food, shelter, utilities, transportation, like the four walls of

helping her in those ways, not going on vacation or something like that. And then talking to her and saying, because I love you so much, I want to see you do better so you're not having to depend on people for money. So let's look at...

opportunities. Let's look at doing a budget. Let's put you through Financial Peace University and go through and learn how to manage money. Like, I also want to give you these resources. You know, maybe you pay for therapy for her, right? I mean, like, seriously, I don't know what else is out there, but it's like tools to help her

become a healthier person? How can we do that and sustain that? Right. So, so that that's option B, but option A is okay too, Sierra. I want you to feel that like that, that is up to you. Yeah. But then there's option B if you feel that way. But I think what you're saying is wise is going, you know, straight to, to the things that you can help. And, and even, you know, and it's, and it's so sad, but it's the reality, you know, she's pregnant. Yeah.

So like, I don't know what health insurance looks like for her and all of that. So it's like, there's a part like we need to understand the reality we live in, niece, whatever her name is. But also maybe, Sierra, you say, I feel like I do want to give and maybe it's maybe through the medical baby route and you help pay for medical bills, you know, to help with that. Right. So like, I think there's ways to help her, but also helping her to become a healthier whole person in the process is going to be the best gift that you can give her.

Yeah, I really like that because I think I haven't taken time to do that. And I think I was also struggling. I'm kind of in a position in my life where I haven't always outrageously given, right? Like I've, you know, and I've kind of turned the corner where I feel like I have to, oh, I can help there. I can help. Yes. Like I think I was trying to find that balance. And so I think that

Just even having a, you know, we've kind of chatted back and forth and I've kind of gone a bit radio silent actually just to sort of discern and pray about this.

Yeah. I think that answer is just, you know, just having a proper conversation with her and how she can grow and sort of determine from there, but also maybe directly help her with the four walls. We have free health care in Canada, so baby care shouldn't be an issue. Oh, that's true. Okay, good. Yeah, that's great. That's fantastic. Yeah. Well, I love your heart, Sierra. And I think, you know...

This is the thing about money. It's a tool to help, but we want to help and not enable. And with family members, I think it's sometimes that hard line that can happen. Giving should be intentional, just like spending or saving. Yep, that's right. So you're doing this the right way. Yeah, for sure. Sierra, thanks so much for the call. Well, that puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back. We'll be back.

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah. I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own banks.

the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds.

They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service. And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love it. The things that we teach, they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding. It took less than five minutes.

It was so user friendly, like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there. And they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I

I so, so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe.

You guys are just incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Fairwinds is federally insured by NCUA. ♪

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author and my co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel. We are answering your questions, so give us a call at 888-825-5225.

We'll chat about your life, your money, your career, relationships, anything and everything. We are here for you. Rachel will get into it. She's not scared. We are here for you. All right, let's have Kevin kick us off this hour in Springfield. Hey, Kevin, welcome to the show.

Hi, so I just had some questions trying to figure out how to get us out of debt here. I mean, we are drowning. I've got some charge-offs, some credit cards. I've got some rental properties. A couple years ago, it kind of took a turn. We were doing well. A couple years ago, it took a turn. We have seven kids under our roof right now. My wife's sister had lost two of her children. We ended up having to adopt them. Oh.

bring them in. So it's been, since it's kind of just financially been straining us, as you know, grocery prices going up and all that. So we've got some hard decisions to make. I've got some rental properties, got three duplexes. I owe about $268,000 on them. I could probably sell them around $360,000 to $390,000.

And then I've got another house. It's a rental property. I could probably sell it around $80,000. So I'm just trying to decide whether I should stick with the rental property. You sell the vehicles. What's your total debt outside of the rental properties? Put those aside. What's the total consumer debt? Total debt would be about $520,000. That doesn't include any mortgages?

Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, that does include all the mortgages and credit cards. So, I mean, consumer debt, you're looking at probably around $40,000. Okay. Between me and my wife, both. And that's credit cards. There's multiple car loans? Yeah, so I've got two vehicle loans. I've got my truck and then my wife's SUV. Okay.

And my wife's SUV, we pretty well got to stick to it because it's the biggest one we've got for transportation for the kids. And you could clear $100,000 profit if you sold the duplexes? Yes. Well, it sounds like you just found your get out of jail free card right there.

What's the net income you're making off of all these rentals per year? We're not so yearly income. We're not making a whole lot. I know we're bringing in about probably after the insurance and taxes and payments are made.

Probably around $4,000 a year, so it's not really much. Even more reason to sell with that mortgage. This is a big hassle, and there's really no ROI because you're not even factoring maintenance and repairs and tenant vacancy and all kinds of other risk. Man, I'd get out of this and get a clean slate if I were you.

Okay. So the one issue with that is we've got my wife's parents living there right now. Uh, we're kind of trading them for babysitting. My wife's not working because of baby babysitting is kind of so high right now. So it just doesn't make sense for her to be able to work. Um,

So we're kind of, we're letting them stay there. They're not in great of health. I know my wife's dad had cancer. He recovered from that, but he's not able to work. They can't afford anywhere. So we're just kind of like, what are we going to do with them? So yeah, it's just, it's very stressful. Is that one of the duplexes? Do you have one duplex or three? We've got three on one lot. Okay. So could you sell the other ones? One of the duplexes.

Yeah, probably. That would probably basically just, that would, yeah, pretty close to pay them off if I sold the other two. I would do that for now, just so you guys can breathe, because you said you're drowning. So trying to get your head above water means let's get rid of two of these duplexes, pay off the debt, build some emergency fund, then we can reassess the situation with the parents after that.

Okay. All right. Are the cars worth anything? Or are you underwater on both of them? I mean, we're pretty well underwater. The truck's about $42,000. It's probably worth about $30,000. My wife's car, we owe $27,000. It's probably worth about $16,000 or $17,000. Oh, you told me you had $40,000 in consumer debt. Sounds like there's a lot more.

Yeah, so yes, there is. Okay. And I've got a student loan. I went to school to be a cop, and of course they don't pay very well. What's the household income? Really just my income right now, we're at $63,000 a year. I thought the kids were helping. I thought the parents were helping with the kids so your wife could work. Well, they do, but we're kind of, we're in a mess right now where...

Everywhere she goes, it's just been a nightmare because all the appointments and stuff. Mom can't take them everywhere, so she plans on going back into it. But, yeah, we're trying to find something. She's wanting to go to school and do all that. Like I said, we don't know if school should hold off. She should just go back to full-time really quick. What was she doing? She was a nursing assistant at a nursing home. Okay. And how much was she making if she worked full-time?

Oh, probably $32,000 to $36,000 a year. Okay. Well, so you got truck $42,000, SUV $27,000. How much is in credit card debt? How much credit card debt is it? Between me and her both, we're right about $20,000 in credit cards. Okay. And then how much in your student loan? Student loan, it's not very much. It's almost $2,000. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, y'all are bumping up to, you know, $92,000 in consumer debt, making $63,000. So, yeah, you can't... So all this rental stuff, Kevin, you guys can't afford it. So you have a rental house, too? Is that what you said? Yes. Okay, I would sell everything from a real estate perspective. And if the parents...

But you told us that, well, the parents have to live here because it's exchanged for babysitting and all. You know what I mean? All of that, I would put them in an apartment. You know what I mean? And do what you can. Because you guys can't keep saving everyone's situation while you're drowning. And so if I were you, from a real estate perspective, you would make – did you say you would clear 80K from the house? Yeah.

So, yeah, we would get about, well, we could sell for $80,000 by $0.60 on one of the rental houses. So you're probably making $10,000, $15,000 off of that, not $100,000 off the other one. Yeah, so this is my second problem. So on my other house I've got right now, we got solar, and we do not know a whole lot about solar. Is that the $20,000 one, or is that the $80,000 house, or is that another house? Yeah.

That's the current house we're in right now. Oh, that you're living in. What do you owe on the solar? Yes. The solar is at $60,000 right now. Oh, my goodness. I'm paying interest-only payments. Okay. I know. All right. So...

This is everything must go. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, so, I mean, I would sell these duplexes. You guys can't afford to keep them. So that gives you $100,000. That clears basically all of your other debt with about $8,000 left. And then you're going to have to work to pay off these solars. Or if you sold the other house and maybe made $20,000, that would give you guys close to what? Is that $35,000 left of consumer debt? $35,000 for the solar. And that's it.

I would do all of that today, Kevin. And the problem is, though, what I'm worried about is that you're selling all these rental properties and you're going to pay off all of this and not feel much. So you guys have to cut up the credit cards. You guys have to just tell yourself we're not doing this anymore because this isn't going to fix Kevin and your wife. What we're saying is going to fix the money situation. It's not fixing you guys. And you guys need to be fixed.

to stop making some of these decisions or you're going to continue. Yeah, the real estate transaction doesn't fix the behavior. That's the route you need to get to. But right now, the transactions are a good start. There's a time in your life and the baby steps for renting. But you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down.

So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket.

and an asset towards turning you into a Baby Steps millionaire. Get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchillmortgage.com. That's churchillmortgage.com.

The Money and Relationships Tour is halfway over, and the energy in every room has been unreal. Each stop has been packed with real talk, big laughs, and life-changing moments. Now it's your turn. Come hang out with me and Dr. John Deloney in a city near you for a night that could change your money, your relationships, and your future. This is your last chance to join us in Phoenix, Fort Worth, or Kansas City the week of May 5th. Grab your tickets today at ramseysolutions.com slash tour.

One way we have found that this show continues to grow, get more listeners and viewers is because you guys have been...

telling your friends, your family, sharing these episodes on social media, all the things which we are so grateful for. We love to see the show grow because we know that means more people are listening and hopefully more people are finding hope when it comes to their money. So honestly, you guys are the best marketing we have out there. Trusted,

People that trust you in your life are listening to your recommendations. And when you talk about the show, it's huge. It really is. And it helps us so much. So we want to thank you for doing that. So again, subscribe, leave a review, share an episode or two with a friend, and we'll keep getting the word out about taking control of your money, George. You never know. One day they're going to say, fine, I'll watch the clip. And they go, oh my gosh, this is actually pretty good. Look at this. Look what I could do with my money. I love it.

All right, let's go to the phones. We have Ryan in Atlanta, Georgia up next. Hi, Ryan. Welcome to the show. Hey, Rachel. Hey, George. Hope you guys are doing good. Stoked to talk to you all today. Oh, well, thank you. Thanks for calling. How can we help? Yeah, so I'm 27 years old. I'm an aircraft mechanic. I make about $70,000 a year, give or take. We get overtime and stuff. But I just had a baby about 30 days ago. Oh, congratulations. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you. So me and my fiance were getting married in October. We're not currently married. So I bought a house back in 2023 and she has a house and her house is bigger. So we moved into our house. And in the meantime, I have my house being rented. And I just wanted to know, like, it was always the goal of ours to get into real estate.

I just wanted to get a clear picture if we're doing this the right way and get a little advice on what you guys will do as far as my situation. Are they both in the Atlanta area? Are they nearby each other? Yes, sir. They're about probably like 10, 15 minutes apart. That's great. What kind of debt do you guys have consumer debt-wise, you and your fiancé? We'll just say wife for the scenario. Once you guys get married, how much consumer debt will you guys have?

Yeah, so luckily we have no consumer debt, just our mortgages. Oh, that's great. Okay, how much do you owe on your primary? So on my home, I owe $177,000, and on her home, she owes $270,000. Okay. How much is your home worth? My home is worth about $225,000 to $230,000. Okay. Honestly, Ryan, if I were you, and you're making $80,000 a year, how much does she make?

She makes $80,000 as well. She'll be getting a promotion next year. I'm sorry, she'll be making $80,000 next year, and they'll creep up from there. She'll be making $150,000 together come October? Yes. Are you guys going to combine finances completely? Yes, sir. And how much are you making on the rental property, yours? So it's renting out for $1,750, and the mortgage is $1,160. Okay. About $7,000 a year, give or take. Yeah. Okay.

I'll tell you what I would do, Ryan and George. I'd be curious your opinion. I don't know where you would stand with this. So if I were you guys, Ryan, I'd probably just sell your house and I would take the equity in it, which will be. It'd be 40 grand or so? Yeah, ish. Yeah. After fees? Fees and taxes and stuff. Yeah. And, and I mean, you put it towards your mortgage now and you guys would have about 210 left on your primary mortgage. Yeah.

And then I would work just to pay it off. And that'd be your single goal. I mean, you know, because again, you're making seven grand on the rental. It's not a ton, right? Like you're not, it's not life changing. So if I were you, I would focus on the primary home, get that sold off. And that will take you guys, I mean, depending on how, you know, how hard you're willing to work and focus, maybe five, five-ish years, maybe, right?

And then from there, reevaluate and say, okay, now what do we want to do? Because real estate investing will be beyond baby steps. It's baby step seven really is where I would put it. So once your primary home is paid off, then save up, pay cash for an investment property. Yep. And I say that, Ryan, because, you know, in five years, you know,

You guys could have two more kids. You know what I mean? You could have three kids. The way life looks, you know, your priorities could shift then when you actually say, hey, we have the ability. You know, your income's going to go up. You guys will have a great income, no house payment, nothing. And if you wanted to save, you know, 100 grand to buy, you know, a fixer-upper and let it be your first rental...

have at it and do it. You know what I mean? Like, absolutely. Or you could see, I don't know, that, man, once you're juggling life and there's, you know, kids running around and everything, you're like, you know, just a good mutual fund feels like really easy in life right now. And go simple.

simple with investing and then maybe get into it later, right? So it's the idea that it's not a never. And I come from a real estate family. I mean, my family loves real estate. And so I am all about it. But I do want the priorities to be in the correct order just for peace and for you guys to have as much autonomy as possible. So that's what I would probably sell it.

And then throw any equity you have at your primary home. You guys get married. I would probably do this after the wedding, by the way. I would probably just like, hold still. Nothing's on fire here. Nothing's on fire. After you guys get married, you know, all of that from a legal standpoint is there. Then, you know, make this move to sell your home. Put the equity into her home, which you should be on the, you know, the title deed. That's what I was going to ask. Are you going to get added to the deed and the mortgage?

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. That was the goal after we get married. We were going to combine everything. I love the idea of throwing that lump sum from the proceeds at her mortgage and then you can recast it or refinance it. But probably you should be able to recast it and just add your name to it with that lump sum. And that'll make that payment so low. You guys will knock that mortgage out so fast. Making $150,000 and your mortgage is now down to $230,000 at that point. Right. Yeah.

That was actually a segue into, so I have like 80 grand in a high yield savings. And so I didn't know if it would have been smart to like throw it at my mortgage now and then recast it towards a smaller payment. But so based off what y'all are saying, it would make sense to sell and then just throw that entire lump. Yeah. Anything beyond your six month emergency fund? I assume that includes your, that's all your savings?

Yes, sir. Yeah, yeah. So anything beyond the six-month emergency expenses, yeah, once you guys are married, throw that on top of the lump sum from the proceeds, use the extra savings, you'll knock that thing down maybe closer to $200. Okay. That'd be amazing. All right. And you guys still have time? You're going to cash flow a wedding, I assume, by October? Yeah.

Well, luckily, yeah, we're blessed in that area. Her dad is in a position to help us out with that. That's great. Awesome. That's great. Yeah, I mean, this sets you guys up, Brian, really well. I mean, to get the primary mortgage down that low. And how much is the house worth? The house is – so she just bought it like not too long ago. It's worth like $3,000, $3,800 or something like that. Okay, that's great. But to think that you guys could have a paid-off house –

In what, four-ish years maybe even? I mean, like it's just wild to think. And then what you guys can do from there is amazing. So if real estate is still what you guys are wanting, then we'd be all about that. Just cash flowing in and going slow. We always say move at the speed of cash. So it's not going to be fancy and big and great, but...

My husband's flipping houses right now, George, and there are some nasty houses that are going from not right. Hey, Winston, how's it going? He's like, man, there's some good days. There's some bad days. I know. Yeah. So you can find some not great, you know, get a contractor in there, you know, figure it out. But real estate's fun. I think it's a great way to diversify money eventually. You know, we're not I'm not just like, oh, just invest in a mutual fund and sit there. I do like the idea of, you know, you're making money on turn. I don't know. It's fun. Real estate is fun. But I just want you to do it the right way.

You'll have more peace about it. Yeah, for sure. And if a deal doesn't go well, George, you know, you just say, well, that happens. That one didn't take. That one happens. But when you do it with cash, it just changes the desperation involved. It really does. It is wild. Like, he had one that, and it sat. I mean, like, it was painful. And it was a larger one than a deal we would normally do.

But we had no mortgage payment, right? So it's like, you know, you can afford just to let it kind of sit there. You're not like bleeding money. Yes, yes. Like you would have. I'm like, seriously, there is something so powerful about it. And, but yeah, there's some, there's some nasty, I

How's this, George? Well, if you just watch TikTok, you don't see that. All you see is buy my course and I'll show you how amazing this is and how I worked one hour a week to make all this money. But the reality of it is it's a lot of pain and turmoil to get the reward on the other side. Yeah, for sure. It's a lot of work. Yes. Oh, no. And that's the interesting thing. You know, that's, you know, flipping versus...

Holding, right? So the investment real estate where you hold and yeah. And that's the thing too, is you don't make a ton of money on the rents always, but it's what you make at the buy, right? If you get a good deal. Appreciation kicks in all the time. Yes, which is beautiful too. So yeah, so there's some fun stuff there that is great. Not everyone does it the wisest, smart, peaceful way. So we are slower with it, but it gives you more peace, which is way more of an enjoyable life, George. Amen. Amen.

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It is time for one of our favorite segments on The Ramsey Show in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Joining us are Micah and Jessica, which can only mean one thing. You guys are debt-free. Can you confirm or deny? I can confirm. Yes. Yes, we love it. Where are you guys from? So we're from Smith Station, which is close to Auburn, Alabama. Awesome. And how much debt did you pay off? So we paid off $163,427. Oh, my gosh. Love it. How long did it take?

29 months. 29 months, yeah. Okay, so great. That is wild. Okay. What kind of debt was it? It was an aircraft. Whoa, we got a plane. You know he's serious if he calls it an aircraft. Yeah, an aircraft versus an airplane. Makes it feel like a business expense. What is the difference? Airplane versus aircraft. Aircraft is anything that flies. Airplane is specifically. So it could be like a helicopter would be considered an aircraft. Okay, but you have an aircraft. Are you a pilot? I am. Okay, amazing. So now you have your own aircraft paid off.

Actually, we sold it. Oh, you got rid of it. Yes. After we paid it off. After we paid it off. Oh my gosh. Okay. So it was an aircraft. What else? A truck. Yeah. And a vacuum. And a vacuum. Wow. And our house. And our house. Wait, what? Oh, your house. You should have led with this. Way to bury the lead. Oh, just the house. The afterthought. The house is paid off. The bigger question, how much was this vacuum that it required going into debt? Yeah, it was about $4,000. Yeah.

Okay, I've heard of these. What are these vacuums? Are they like miracle workers compared to a Dyson? Oh, yeah. They're pretty great.

It's got to be to go $4,000. Not worth the debt. They're pretty good. Is it for your home? Vacuum for your home? Yeah. Y'all have never heard of this. How have you heard of a $4,000 vacuum? Because someone else was like, yeah, we have vacuum. It's $4,000. I don't even know where to buy a $4,000 vacuum. So funny. I don't have access to those. Yeah, I told him I wanted it. So he got it. And he said, yes, ma'am. Put it on the card. Oh, gosh. Okay, so 29 months. So what happened 29 months ago that caused you guys to change what you've been doing?

So I had gotten a new job several months before that, and it was considerably more than I've ever made in my life. But several months goes by and nothing's changed. I'm still living basically paycheck to paycheck. And I was like, this isn't OK. Something's got to change. So I remembered from high school, the Dave Ramsey. Wow. And I was like, hey, we need to do this. And so we did.

Oh my gosh. Okay. So how much money were you guys making during this debt payoff? So at the beginning it was about 160,000 together. And then towards the end is about 140. Of course now because of promotions and stuff, we're back up to about 160. Okay. So great you guys. Oh my gosh. So you were like, okay, we are making great money, but we're literally living paycheck to paycheck. So what would be, cause I'm actually was brainstorming with the team, this exact type video content of like,

you know, why wealthy people, you know, people making 200,000, which was basically you guys are still living paycheck to paycheck. Cause what did it look like for you guys? Was it just payments? Was it just not budgeting? Like what was life like? So he's the spender. Yeah. So it was mostly him. Okay.

I love how quickly she threw you under the bus. It's okay. I'm also the nerd, so it's my own fault. It was a lot of things. It was, yeah, I mean, obviously aircraft, truck, I mean, vacuum, just payments that we had coming through. We didn't do credit cards. I never touched credit cards. But kind of the big thing was we were just...

buying stuff that just really didn't matter eating out a lot eating out a lot yeah all the subscriptions yeah yep just not really saying no correct basically if you wanted it you're gonna figure out a way to do it yeah right you were like a toddler with a you know a richie rich blank check situation yes i love it so what was your life like during that 29 months

Show us the other side of the sacrifice. What did you do? So the first about six months, which is when we paid off all our consumer debt before we got into the mortgage, it was –

rice and beans you know I mean like we weren't eating out hardly at all we had date night that was a required thing that we would do but we cut all the subscriptions up we didn't buy anything like it was bare bones only if we need it did we buy it yeah we started making a list of stuff we wanted to buy after yeah that's good yeah

Wow. That's great. And did you say for the first six months, that was it? That was the mentality? Right. The first six months was that. And then we got through baby step three. So we hit four, five, and six. Yes. And so that slowed down that kind of mentality a little bit. Yeah. Let us grow a little bit. But towards the end, I was like, man, this mortgage just really stinks. And so that's when I started talking to her about, hey, maybe we should sell the aircraft that we've paid off.

And that sped the whole thing on my baby. Yeah, I told him, I said, I'm not telling you to do that. That's going to be your decision. Yeah. How did it feel when you sold it? I was sad. I cheered up. Did you kiss it goodbye? Like, what is the process? I didn't kiss it, but it was close to that. Okay. How much did you get for it? How much was it that fled? So we bought it for $39, but we sold it for $65. Whoa. Wow. Did you fix it up? We got it. Yes. So we got it right before COVID-19. Mark it.

Oh, my gosh. And so the market went crazy high in general aviation. And then in turn that we put 24,000 into it.

Wow. New paint job, new stuff inside, all kinds of stuff. Wow. So you've got no aircraft now? No air... Well, not mine, no. You fly one professionally, but you don't have your hobby? Well, it's actually not what I do for a living. Oh, wow. It's just what I do on the side. I do stuff with Civil Air Patrol, so I fly with them, but on the primary side, I'm actually IT. Oh, nice. So this was a hobby of yours. Correct. That's amazing. An expensive hobby. It's a very expensive hobby. So now what do you do when you want to go fly? Well, it depends.

It depends on what I want to do. If it's with Civil Air Patrol, then I have to get a certain mission set for that. And there's all kinds of training requirements and stuff I have to maintain. So there has to be some purpose behind it versus a joyride. Correct. That's probably for the best. Oh, my gosh. I'm so proud of you guys. That's a big sacrifice. I mean, you think about trying to convince a guy to sell his truck. He sold his aircraft. Oh, he sold his truck, too. I sold my truck, too. Whoa! Did it all.

Oh, you were just like all the way. Okay, so how do you convince another guy listening out there who's going, no one's taking my truck away from me? It may not be a truck, George. It's always a truck. He always, always takes my truck. No one's ever like, no one takes my Prius away from me. No one's ever said that in history. Yeah, I would say number one thing, you're living now. You're not thinking seven years from now. So start thinking about what your life's going to be like and then make the sacrifices now so it can be that.

And so it's more of a mature mentality. Yes. Micah said it so much nicer than I could have. That was good. So good. Oh, man. Okay. Were there people cheering you guys on during this process? I mean, talk about it or did you kind of just keep it between y'all? Oh, we definitely talked about it. Yeah, we talked about it. I love it. We actually led several Financial Peace University classes as coordinators. And so

so we had our parents and stuff who were happy for us. They weren't necessarily on board with everything we were doing, but they were happy that we were going down this path. So, um, but really it was each other and just keeping our nose to the grindstone, so to speak. And just doing it. Anybody make fun of you during it? Oh, yes. Yes.

yeah mainly for the credit card situation yeah because everyone thinks it's crazy you don't have a credit card and we're like we didn't have one to begin yeah that's what that was interesting too what was your retort what was your big comeback when they would come at you with this with uh the credit cards just in general credit cards i would point out something that's been brought up several times is obviously statistics right i'm a big statistics guy i being it right very numbers oriented being the nerd but on top of that i would bring up

you know, what these credit card companies do and who they target with their advertising and who they're going after. The sliminess of it all. The predatory nature. Right. Oh, I love that. So good. Wow. What's the house worth? It's about $242,000 this morning. Awesome. Amazing. So you guys are well on your way to Baby Step's Millionaire now. We are. And Baby Step's Seven. That's incredible. What do you tell people the key is to getting out of debt if it was one thing?

So we were talking about this on the way here, what we would say if you asked us. And my take was invite people into your journey, um,

Because you get to minister to people that way. Tell them why you're doing what you're doing and what's so different about Ramsey compared to all these other financial institutions. That was my takeaway with it. Invite people in. Just keep them updated on what you're doing. Keeps you motivated. It keeps you motivated, definitely. And then you can bring other people in because they'll start asking questions like, oh, how did you do this?

You get to tell them all about it. Yeah, that's beautiful. And there's some accountability. It's like, oh, they're going to ask about this. Yeah, we were teaching the classes while we were in like baby step three. We're like, we just sold the truck that we had paid off and everyone thought we were walking the talk. Yeah, I love it. Oh, my goodness. Well, we have a parting gift for you guys. We have two every dollar premium subscriptions good for a year. So you can use those, pass it on to the naysayers or the cheerleaders to help them on their debt free journey as well.

All right, here we go. You ready? Let's do it. All right, we got Micah. We got Jessica. $163,000 paid off in 29 months, making $160,000. And they sold the aircraft, the truck, to do it. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Oh, I love it. That'll do it. Man. I felt that. House and everything. Golly. So good. No words. So good.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call,

George, you know when you open your phone and you're like in an app and you don't realize you're there because subconsciously you just end up. Do you ever do that? You've never said anything more relatable. Okay, okay. So I looked up the other day. No joke. Judge me if you want.

I was in EveryDollar. And I literally was like... Subconsciously. The budgeting app. Subconsciously! And I literally was like, I don't even remember opening my phone. I don't even remember how I got here or what I was thinking to get here. But EveryDollar is an app that I use...

Instagram and every dollar. It's just muscle memory. Muscle memory. It is. I'm like, I don't know because I love this budgeting app. I really do. And as a spender and as a free spirit, it is the thing that like, it just keeps me in line. It gives me peace. I even did an experiment where I tried not to budget for like two weeks to like see like what, you know, and I just, I don't like it. That's Rachel living on the edge. I know. And I'm a spender.

spender y'all like I like I'm you know I'm not one of these like cheap people in life and I'm like I love to budget but I do I love to budget and I give every dollar a lot of credit because it helps and it's just like I just love this app so much so here's the ad if your muscle memory is leading you to DoorDash and Uber Eats and Amazon download the every dollar app instead so you can get a whole new rhythm on your phone so you can be looking at your budget more and more but it is if you are living paycheck to paycheck or wherever you are

Budgeting is something that is going to help you. It really is. It is a tool. It is a habit to get in, and EveryDollar helps. And our team is actually hosting a free budgeting training this month, George. So you're actually going to learn step-by-step how to use EveryDollar, how to create a budget, how to stick to it. So spots are limited, but you can sign up for free at EveryDollar.com slash webinar. And there will be a Q&A as well. So a lot of things just to kind of get started. But it is. It is a –

It is a habit I'm glad I have, George, for my free spirit. So proud of you. Spending self. It's very helpful. It is. That's a good humble brag. Thanks. You said thanks. It's too late. Like in a job interview where they're like. What's your worst trait? You're like, I just care too much. You know, I just care too much. I budget too much. I just budget too much. All right. Let's go to Elijah in New York City, one of my favorite cities in America. Hey, Elijah. Welcome to the show.

Rachel, George, how are you guys doing? We're doing great. How can we help today? Excellent, excellent. All right, so my wife and I are preparing to start a new chapter in our lives. We're going to be taking over her mom's business. It's a children's consignment shop. We're just kind of curious about what are the logistics behind moving the business over to us? Wondering things like should the business be in one of our names, keeping one of us as an employee, is there tax benefits?

benefits behind that? And also, when it does get passed over to us, is there going to be a cost to us as far as taxes go?

Yeah. When is that? Are you guys doing like an official purchase? Her mom doesn't want to sell it to us. She just wants to give it to us. Just gift it. Okay. Oh, yeah. That's great. That's nice. So it doesn't cost you anything. And this is a physical brick and mortar location? Just one? Correct. And what's the real estate there? Does she rent out of somewhere or does she own the real estate?

She rents. She rents out of it. Okay. And we just signed a 10 year lease. So we're going to be there for a little while. Okay. That's great. What's the structure right now as it stands? Do you mean like, like a strip mall sort of thing or a single? Like whose name is on what? Got it. So right now it's in my wife's name because we had to update the lease. So my, my mother-in-law said, all right, we'll put it in her name. So it's now my wife's name.

Okay. And is there an operating agreement? Is there something in paper, like a buy-sell agreement? What have you guys outlined so far? My wife signed a lease contract. That's about it for now. But nothing with the original owners, your family? No.

Correct. Okay. All right. But is there anything in writing saying that they gifted this to you? I guess that's what I'm trying to get after is this transfer. It was just a handshake deal? Pretty much, yeah. My mother-in-law wants to retire and wants to hand it over to my wife and I. And does your wife have any other siblings? No. Okay, so it's just her. Okay, so there's not like a...

issue of dividing assets and all of that at

Luckily not. Luckily not. Have you contacted like a small business attorney to help with this? I have not. I didn't even know that was a thing, but that's something I will look into. We have no idea where to start with this. Yeah, there's attorneys that will specialize in small business or even an estate planning attorney can help with this. And the things I would want to look into is just making sure that there is some sort of ownership transfer agreement in place.

and something that is guiding the legal structure? Like, is this an LLC? Is it a sole proprietorship? There's so many options out there. It is an LLC? Yeah. And so has the LLC been transferred into your names? Not yet. So there would be one piece of homework there, filing the right paperwork with the IRS and your state, licensing transfers, the lease agreement, that part's done, which is good. Any liabilities? Is there any debt attached to this business? No.

No debt at all. Oh, good. Okay. And then on the tax side, I'd be working with a good tax pro to figure out are there gift tax returns? Does your mom need to file any forms to make sure she doesn't get hit with a gift tax for the sale of this business? Yeah. What's the business estimated at, Elijah? Do you know?

Um, as far as like yearly profits. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So last year, um, projected around, it was around 740,000. Wow. Gosh, this is like a high end. More or less. Yeah. Yes. Consignment. I never realized how much it actually brought in until I started asking more questions. Yeah. So that, so that was top line. How much is, how much is, um, after everything's paid? Yeah.

The net. Not entirely the net. She said between the two of us, it would probably be around 350, 300. Okay. And she just isn't needing that money anymore. Like she doesn't need any level of stock. She doesn't need any stock or anything like that.

No, she wants to stay home and babysit the grandkids. Wow. That's amazing. What a great situation. I know. What a gift. Phenomenal family. I've married into a phenomenal family. Oh, my gosh. And you guys obviously want the business, correct? Like this is exciting to her? There's not like a burden or like a, gosh, we have to take this just from an emotional level.

Not at all. No. My wife loves it on multiple levels. About two years ago, I got hurt on the job. I was an electrician, so I can't do that anymore. So this is kind of my fallback and it's something I enjoy.

It's amazing. I love it. So great. So just to recap, there's three people I would reach out to if I was in your shoes. Number one is that attorney who can specialize in this and help you make sure that the T's are crossed, the I's are dotted. Number two is a CPA to help on the tax side. And lastly, I would make sure you have a good insurance pro in your corner to help with liability insurance and, you know, workers comp and whatever other pieces that the business needs and make sure that's all in your name and you have the right coverages.

Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah, but it sounds like it's as simple as it gets. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, thanks, Elijah. Yeah, and I would say, too, you know, it doesn't have to be necessarily in both names, but making sure that your family, Elijah, you and your wife, your will states that

That the business is put, you know, in your name in the event that your wife passes away or something. You know what I mean? Like if there's clear communication on that end. Yeah, that'll bleed into your personal estate planning with this business of what's going to happen with this business one day. That's what I'm thinking. Yep, 100%. Wow. So that's great. Man, that is a – you don't hear that often. It's usually much messier from the financial perspective, right, of a lot of parents that build a business, you know, they need that –

the sale of that business for retirement, right? That's the retirement plan for a lot of these business owners. They didn't invest. They just went, I'm going to build a business and one day I need the cash and now it's on the kid to pay or go into debt for this business. And they call in saying, well, my dad said it's a great opportunity. It's valued at a million. Should I take out a million in debt to buy the business? And we're like, no, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah. So this is...

This is what it looks like when you do it well. I know, 100%. Yeah. So Elijah is, yeah, in a very... Oh, you know what I should do for Elijah is send him a... I think he's still on the line. Hang on, Elijah. Kelly's going to pick up. We're going to send you the book from Dave, the newest one, Build a Business You Love. It's great. It's going to walk you through the stages of business, the drivers that move through the stages. And I think you're going to find it really helpful as you take on this new endeavor to

to do it with a lot of wisdom, which Dave will outline in that book. Yeah, for sure. 30 plus years of running this thing. Yeah, and it sounds like you guys have a great relationship with her mom, who's gifting you all this business.

And there's probably a lot of ins and outs of running it as successfully as she has. I mean, she's done this without debt. She makes, you know, I mean, a great return. It's amazing. Close to seven figures in this business. Yeah, so that's amazing. I mean, she's really done a great job. Selling used kids stuff. I'm in the wrong business, Rachel. But luxuries.

They're in New York. High end. This is the kind of place my wife would love to shop at. I know. I thought I should go. Before I'm in New York, I'm going to find Elijah. Elijah will find you and shop for our kids at the store. So great. Well, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Go call every social media app.

Hey, what are you still doing here? You know the rest of the show is happening on the Ramsey Network app, right? So you got to jump over there to continue watching. You can download it for free. Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey Network. It's completely free. And I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you. So jump onto the app and let the fun continue. All right, go on now. Don't make it weird.

Okay, I got nowhere to go, so you need to go. Okay, bye-bye now. All right, this is getting weird over there, guys. What do we do?