Building Wealth Is About More Than Just Math
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Live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions. It's the ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jet wash, rmc personality number one best selling author is my cohosh today.

Open phones at tripoli. Eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. Marta is with us to start this, our martis and important organ.

I'm marta. How are you?

I don't OK thanks .

for what's up. Um so I and fifty seven years old, i've been married for thirty three years and i've never managed are going uh financials um but I find myself that that was a big mistake on my part and I need help with trying to figure out how to sort out my finances. I have a house that in my name and the my husband has a gambling problems that I just discovered and has been snowball lings ince。

I started discovering the problem. I signed a hillock, not knowing, but I actually was signing. 嗯， so I ninety thousand dollars, uh uh, start and haven't done taxes for for years. So I know that at least I know ten thousand dollars out of the irs on to everything oh, because he was taking money of my retirement without my knowledge and so that's gonna come down the pike for me. And I just overwhelm about how how to get things.

How do you find out .

um I found out a letter because you know he hang over the mail. He had every I opened the letter in a unfilled and found out that he had borrowed money from there and I confront to them about that now is last he said um he was paying and he could pay IT and I told them not to take any more money uh but he continued to do that not only dad but he had taken money prior years and he never m told me that his Scott conflict, they also store money from a nonprofit that he was a treasure .

are you still together .

unfortunately? Yes because and people I am denied um ww is getting that the orses and to be very expenses and so i'm trying to get my finances in order. He's just so are you .

you're just biting. Are you just biting your time? Is that what that amounts to? You're trying to get your finances together so that you can get out of this marriage or you guys going to counselling .

to see if you can solve this? Oh, no, we did. Was not there. yeah. I mean, i've been begging them to do things since OK.

So I may I understand where you are that one i'm sorry, what a heart break um yeah you you don't know you don't know what's going on and that's terrifying and you got thirty for your marriage ending and that's terrifying. Am I understanding you correctly say you are saying you're going to end this?

I am. Yes, i'm done with IT head's not .

up to help you in organ. You can file for the allow to do that .

way 这样 就是 and .

do you work out of the home？

Yeah， I am. I'm not. So I so where .

the money go that you make.

well, IT was going to a joint account. I finally um OK, so it's going .

into your you change this going into your name now? Yes, good. How much is in that .

account right now? There's about eleven thousand.

And when you hang up the phone, I want you to call a divorce attuning and sketch le an appointment for tomorrow. please. You keep.

You keep thinking you're gonna wake up and this is all a bad dream and i'm your old ugly brother. This telling you it's not it's a reality and it's unbelievably sad. It's unbelievably scary. But it's going to get worse every moment that you don't deal with this. You do not have to do anything except player retainer, get a lawyer and file for divorce right now okay.

I did see one and um at the time I didn't leave and how the money .

for the routine now you do yeah okay, this is that the one you're going to use?

I don't know. Yeah, I, I, I only solve one. And he told me he fight and he.

I don't care what he thinks. He no longer has a vote.

Yeah.

he gave that up when he stole money from an on profit, when he stole money from his wife, when he had designed documents that he didn't know what he was signing. This is a full, raging lunatic addict who has no boundaries.

And it's going, he's gonna burn the house down around you if you stand there and watch IT and and ignore the smoke please, darling, for your say while there's still something left, get get in a tourney and get him around the throat and shut down all of the financials, shut down everything. So he has no no concept of anything. Move IT all out from under his and care until attorneys til he's atterley and the court makes you put IT back. It's time for you to get very aggressive to try to salvage what you can for the next chapter .

of .

your life on marter. Who knows about this? Are you going through this alone? Or do you have some folks around you?

Oh no, I mean everything. I I have friends, i'm going na count plain k my kids know but I mean he took what sixty thousand dollars from my son who um whose married have two babies, saying he was gna pay back. He had A A business that he went bankrupt, an artist point of.

yeah, paratus.

this has been done a long time and you've ignored IT thinking IT was going to get Better on because you're a sweet person. But listen, you killing yourself here. Okay, please, please deal with this.

Okay, now, this is your big brother that loves you talking. Okay, do IT now OK quit going around with this is not good. If if, if he suddenly gets healed, it's lightning ball struck from heaven and changes. We can always come back and talk about that later. But right now, everything you have told me in the last few minutes screams .

emergency yeah, well, in Better.

But he, I don't care what he thinks. He lost his vote and there .

is no proof of that.

Every time you tell me something about him, it's where he stole something or took something that a your entire description of your husband, he's a raging gambling addict. And there's no fix for that. We work with that ex all the time.

The only fix for that is to break the cycle. And this guy is not interested in breaking the cycle. Addicts can get Better, but one hundred percent of addicts are master manipulators, and they are master liars. He'll make you think this is your fault.

Oh, he does make me that's .

part part of the addiction. okay? There's only one thing you can do with this.

And let's get distance, financial distance, physical distance, housing distance, call editor ney bag or call anatta ney today and please army, take action on this. It's not going to get Better as goza abuser. I'm so sorry.

What a heart braking thing to do with fastest growing addiction in north amErica a day online porn, second fastest growing addiction gambling we're seeing in our financial counselling offices. Those two things destroying more families than anything else. Thank you to the internet.

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If you're listings on youtube with the podcast, you can click the link in the description and go straight there. Polis in canada. Hi polo.

Welcome to the rami ship. Thank you very much. What's up?

I have a question about adult children finances helping them. I hear a lots of people um trying to help out with wedding, the education and that sort of thing. I'm at the point in my world I actually I can do IT um but am I am likes to do IT when they show that they aren't finally responsible themselves。 我 我的我 is who would .

do you mean more or spiritually obtain or I me who are to you you I know what you're。

Talking about i'm .

asking you said, am I force obliged is a sweet way. Am I required is what you're saying? Who's why? Who requires requires IT?

I guess I feel that they require IT. When IT comes to fairness.

that would be called entitlement. That would not be called yeah that in fact, poli vena requirement. You need to send me some money. Here's my address. Who gives a correct what someone else requires, right?

Who is that that wants IT and what do they want?

I don't know. They wanted as far trying to treat them fairly and five of them in one sees that I spend money on one or the other um trying to help them out or or spending money on weddings are having babies and then the other ones think, well, why isn't SHE giving me money? Why isn't SHE find me give you know and i'm not point my wife for I I can do IT, but I also want to be able to travel and enjoy my retirement and that kind of thing when I don't know how to make IT fair between the side of them.

So I do think that that's an interesting question. I've got two kids and IT would be a strange of me if both were good kids. If I paid for one wedding but didn't pay for the other there, I could see why they would say, well, what's the difference? You've got five kids that a lot more. Is there is something going on that's making you say, for a child, number one, i'll do this, but for a child number two, I won't in here's why is that is that a behavior thing is a yes.

I think so because my one of my children is had a baby and another one is is in is having a baby again soon and I spent all sorts of money on one wedding but not the other um and why and why .

not the other and one of my children .

is financially being a responsible and I do want to help them but in other friends like can I help them with stipulations like I don't want to give you cash because back to change question .

because i'm not sure I heard the answer if if you paid for one wedding but you didn't pay for the other, why you decided that why did was the one that you didn't pay for being responsible and so you didn't want to fund IT, what was the reason for the differences?

Um I I think I was a marve some of them have had the big flashy wedding and then others of them haven't children to have the big clash wedding. So do I.

So they wanted the money instead.

Yes, exactly.

Okay, right? And you just you felt like paying for the wedding was okay, but you didn't want to necessarily be uh to to fend everybody.

The shine amount or or have you make IT equal? You know if if i'm spending five thousand dollars.

well, if it's your money, I think you get to set the premise. If you say OK for each of you, this is the budget and that's what IT is and you make IT fair. I mean that my point is they don't get to decide what you give. You get to decide IT OK.

yeah. But if you already .

gone down the road, yes, i'm kind of .

stretch between two different things in this and I don't know exactly where to land. And we told our kids growing up there is no fair fares where the tilt to world is in the cotton Candy is we're not socialist or capitalist. There's not fair.

okay. So that's out works. Things don't work out that just the way IT is.

And I don't get to decide all of the what life treats you fair or didn't treats you fair. But fair a joke. Fair is only by communist college professors.

There is no fair OK. Uh, welcome the real world. Now that's what that's on one sense. I don't have to do what are our families not socially? On the other sense, I don't want to scar one of them and make them think there is a unless i'm refusing to fund their misbehavior.

I mean, if if one has a splicing wedding in, one of them doesn't, and the one that doesn't is doing heroin. I don't want to give them I don't need to give them the same amount of money. Well, that's not fair.

I don't care. It's not not onna fund of misbehavior. But on other hand, if there's no differences in their behaviors, IT feels a little weird that they are not getting the same amount of money.

So no, you're not obligated. But i'm just thinking through with you the emotional and the relational parts of the discussion. You are not obliged here.

IT is your money you get to decide. I don't get to tell you what to do with that. They don't get to tell you what to do with IT. You can just look at someone and say no and no is a complete sentence.

But from a relational standpoint, if there's not a reason for difference, rentiers, that would give me as a dad concern, I can see how that would cause you a problem. There's a reason like a misbehavior for differentiating. I can lean into that releasing.

And I do think it's fair to say, let's say, you have ten thousand dollars to put towards the wedding. I think it's fair to say I have ten thousand dollars for your wedding. But if one of them says I don't want the wedding, I just want the ten thousand dollars, I think it's fair to say, no, the ten thousand dollars is for the wedding.

right? I mean, those they are okay. Well.

in this case, especially since you're saying some of them are misbehaving with money. You gave me them ten thousand dollars. Is them saying i'm going to do whatever I want with this money? And to your point, if they're doing misbehavior things and that's not the gift you .

wanted IT to be no magnetic stupidity when you give them money. So um that he does for all of us, anybody that gets money and magnifies who you are, good and bad. And so when you put some zeros on the end of that, you're doing that. So I don't know.

I think one of the things we've learned doing the ramsey household in itself because I am convinced my wife our time, but still the day I and it's not because of my kids are their exon cage, but I think a adult children is a weird phrase to start with. That's like an oxide moronic phrase to start with. But raising adult children is the hardest st phase of a parenting.

IT was much easier when they were under my control. And I could just tell them, what if we can do IT was a lot easier now they have these ideas of their own and stuff I taught him to think and damned if they didn't you know oh my god is so hard. So um you know and so it's um it's a difficult time in emotionally in that state for a lot of parents polar.

But I think if you're going to differentiate for a reason, one of the things we've done a really good job about is we just communicate. We just say there's a difference here and here's why and you know what that lets all the year out of IT. And you say in front of the whole family family, right? You put ever buy in the room and o this what were doing is thanksgiving, by the way, and here's what we're doing and IT clear the air.

Yeah, I remember a Rachel had our first big book coming out and we know what personalities is make on a big and so we were at thanksgiving and I said, here, I don't stop just a second here and yellow all they're all in their twenty and i'm like, Rachel s going to have a great ear from some hard work she's done and some of your years aren't gone be as great because you have not done that same exact work and you get the decision right now to decide whether be jealous and petty or whether to congratulate your sister and cheer her on. To their credit, once you set IT out loud, they immediately became cheerleaders. But IT took the air out of the balloon of jealousy.

Once you say IT out loud, and so you you, it's harder to do IT. Once when I said that this is the ramsey. Show i've been doing this show for over thirty years and some of the sad calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah and was so hard as I feel like one of those especially the ones that i'm like a it's terrible air people that call in and their spells has passed suddenly and they don't have life insurance when you have to think through how I onna pay my bills in middle yeah .

in the middle of that grief like .

it's just IT is it's terrible to life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with little kids that I like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Thunder is the place that once and I actually get all of our life insurance.

And IT doesn't because ander shops among a gazillion an different companies. IT didn't call much. You just have to admit that someday you're not gonna be here.

You got to say out loud and you got to say i'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put the stuff in place to costa stinking pizza to get a free quote, call eight hundred three five six, forty two, eighty two. That's eight hundred three, five, six four to eight two or go to a sander dot com. Shal number one by selling author and ramsey personality is my cohoes.

It's that time of year and a few weeks, we're going to be doing a special giving generosity edition of the ramsey shows, one of my favorite shows because we want to teach you to live like no one else so that later you can give like no one else. So here's the deal. Maybe you've been the person that was generous and you got to see someone's face in life changed.

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That's how you get on the radio show. If you want to leave a message there and you put giving on the subject line, we'll get on the podcast. The youtube show, when we're doing the giving show, we do this every Christmas time, is one of our most popular shows.

People love IT because IT reminds us how wonderful human beings can be out there, and often are. It's coming up on december eighteenth. S so send us your giving stories starting today so you can live like no one else.

A later you can give like no one else. Ramsey, solutions not come si ask, put giving in the subject line hand, as in columba's, south korea. Ina, hi hanna. What's up?

Hi dave. Hi jane. I'm so excited. Pok.

you guys, you too. How can we help?

okay. My question is I have been asking to guys for about two or three months and i'm really junco um my husband ire almost later steps four, five and six and I know you guys say to be tencel windows and do them together. So when you're in those steps, why in my human and I not put the extra money into um an investment that has a twelve percent return instead of paying off our health? That has an interesting of two point five.

A great math question and the reason is more than math. Um so we studied ten thousand, one hundred and sixty seven a millionaires.

Okay, and ask them, how did you become a millioned? Did you inherit the money? Did you win a lot to? Are you a country music star? Did you save and invest? How did you do IT? What did you do? What your age? What your income? Watch your career? So we could find some correlations in in ten thousand people's enough to study to draw some real air tight research based conclusions.

And we got a lot of wonderful data from that in other word's facts. Um here's what's interesting, the number of those million's said I became a millionaire because I borrows on my home at a lesser interest rates so that I could invest more, which is effectively what you're talking about doing. You're not borrowing on but you're not paying at all, which is the same thing.

okay. The number of them, they said I delayed paying off my home so that I can invest more. And that's how I became a you know how many of them was at ten thousand? Not zero.

We never had one tell us that, that that's how they became a million or was that they leveraged to their home into investments in that? interesting. And yet the math that you bring up is actually accurate.

I mean, you know you can borrow money, or you might have a mortgage of three percent, and you can make ten, twelve, maybe ten percent in the last twelve months. You can my thirty percent on the essence. P okay, which is not Normal. But but you know you're twelve percent.

I I don't argue with at all the differences is that um you're gonna paying taxes on the money unless you're investing IT into a rough and um you know you've also taken more risk because your home so something happens to people when they get their home paid off. The freedom that they sense in their relationships, in their careers causes them to prosper more and faster than the difference in the interest rates. And so that's the only explanation i've got forward, and i'll take that.

Here's an interesting thing you can do. Go and pay off your house. And if you hate IT, just go out into the mortgage.

That's what I am. I really want to do that. But i'm also married to an account. He said he, like, he knows the math.

And well, here's the problem he let let me admit to him that is doing a naive, primitive, incomplete math formula because his math formula does not include risk and his math formula does not include taxes. And if he can quantify the risk exactly and put IT into a math formula, he's Better god than I am. And i'm a math nerd from now on.

But the but IT is a real risk because we can all honestly say the more debt you have, the more risk e you have agreed, yes. And do not mathematically factor that into this formula makes this formula not even in complete. So I don't care for an account. He's wrong.

right? That's the thing. I mean, now how do you convince him of that? I don't know if you've been convincing him is wrong. He is wrongs and you got married so maybe you can work on IT .

yeah my biggest question for him would be, what what is his ultimate goal? And why are you guys doing ultimate goals?

Build wealth and he thinks she's leveraging the money, right? Am I right?

Yes, you yes.

you are right.

But I guess my question is, is IT a let's let's say he says my goal is to have eight million dollars, right? Is that a time frame? Is IT a time frame he so caught up on? Or is their way that you can present that argument and say, hey, we can still get there. We're just going there in this order and this is gonna give me more peace. Do you see him saying.

hanna, he was trained by the same people I was trained by. My finance professor was broke. What's wrong with that picture? A broke finance professor like a shop teacher with missing fingers. My grandpa was not broke, and he was also an account.

The reason was not broke though, as he avoided debt like the plague because he was a child of the great depression and he had no debt, no debt, no debt, no debt, no way, no debt. When I start gone in debt like crazy amount houses in my twenty, he said, i'm going to throw you out of the family. You couldn't be one of ours.

You're too dumb. He didn't say that, but he, he, he made me feel that there you go but at me because so polar opposite of what that generation that had come on since lived. So the problem, hanna, is your husband was trained by a broke finance professor to believe an incomplete, inaccurate maths formula.

And you can play this back form but um enjoy you know it's an interesting conversation because we get this question like once a week. And when I first started this journey, um this journey being common since money, i've got a finance degree. I've got letters and licenses of all kinds after my name.

This is i'm supposed to know about money but i'm eight years old on bankrupt money and I got the opportunity start over. My wife left, but he never a car. I mean, IT was awful, horrible.

And I was a brand new Christian. And so I started learning from the scanning liberta that the bible had financial principles. And I read in there the borrowed is slave to the lenders.

And then I read in there he who is impulsive, exhausted, folly, and then are reading there the blessings and cursings to the house of israel as they crossed the Jordan. After moses is, let them in the wilderness. The blessings are, you will be so wealthy, you will be a Linda.

The cursin s are, you will be a. Every single thing in scripture that I was reading as a brand new believer was negative about that. And yet my intellect academics all told me that to borrow money like her husband's account, and I I struggled the exactly the same thing.

But I made the decision in those days on the basis of faith. I just said, okay, I tried. I tried to the an academic way.

I won't grow, and I will try this bubbles stuff and is common sense. Now, years later, I discover, oh, they left out risk. I let that math formula ms complete these academic, aren't dad gum smart after all? Oh, no.

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That's fair. Wins F A I R W I N D S dorg sash ramsey. Jay walsh ramsey personality is my co host today. I'm dave rampy, your host ramsey show question, the day is brought to you by why? Rei, if you've made student long mistakes with zeros on the end, well, we're not judging you.

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All right. Today's question comes from brody in maryland. He says, is, is unfair for me to feel angry that my wife wants a bigger house.

We bought a fourteen hundred foot house last April. I sold all four of my investment properties that I worked very hard for to completely pay off our debt, including the new house. Our house is a three bedroom, two bath branch with a backyard on a quiet street.

And it's in a good school district. So much sacrifice and saving when into making this happen. Now he wants a bigger house, even though he said he want to this particular house before we put the offer in.

I don't see how I can make this happen without going into debt again. And I will not go back into debt. This is juicy. I listen at. Here's a thing.

I do think that some people's personalities, because you don't talk about any type of pay rates or situation where you guys as lifestyle is change drastically, but I do think there are some people that, uh, the goal post is constantly moving, right? It's like if I just get this, i'll be happy and then they get that thing and they're not happy. Or if I just get this, i'll be content and then that happens and they are not content because things don't make you happy and things don't make you content. You know, I think they're fun, but they don't they don't feel that void.

And yeah, you can buy fun, but you can't buy happiness.

Yeah, and you can't buy contentment. And if you're on social media, what he might be every single days growing through and looking at what the influences are doing and looking at what their friends know their friends houses are SHE spinning all night. Watching hg TV IT IT is very difficult um for some people to kind of go well that's them and that's OK my life is fine and truly I think that that's what this is. I think .

she's got a contentment issue. What you actually stated there, I just saw an article there the day that um the more hours you spend on social media, the typical the court, that is a direct correlation to the more credit card .

debt you oh really i'd love to see that I know .

there and the more over spending you do because, you know, I I do IT and I have the money but I like looking at some gun thing and I like all I need more those yeah but if I had stayed off for that, I went onna, known that was there and you know but so I know other people do and not teach this clapt. So you know means like goal live, i'm doing IT. It's got a bit so okay, here, here's what happened.

Brody, you guys need to reset your marriage relationship. This is not about a fourteen hundred school food house, is not about you being angry. You are acting like the daddy, and she's acting like daddy.

Little prince and daddy sold everything .

and did everything and sacrificed and worked his fingers to the bone. And what did he get? Bony fingers. And he got a house and he's real proud of the house and now he walks any good? Yeah but there's a one paper.

yeah.

And so we need to reset this. And instead, let's be too like grown ups. So the conversation i'm going to have is and actually we had IT at our house, but in a little different way when we were batteries age, probably i'll take about hours in the second, but the conversation i'm gonna is okay.

We are gonna get a line on hour goals ah. My goal is not to perpetual make an unhappy person happy. I am not going to get on that trade mail.

We you're a grown woman. I'm a grown man working. Sit down together.

And here's one of mine. Okay, I don't borrow money, period. Here's another one of mine.

I like to provide nice things for my wife. Here's another one of mine. These are what you might say.

Brody, okay. And she's saying, well, I want a house as nice as my friends. Okay, what can we do to get that you don't work, you could work.

You don't work much, you could work more um you could quit coach bagging IT and we might save that money towards the house. I mean, what are we going to do as to grown up people to responsibly? Because I am all in.

I put all my chips in the table. I sold off everything. I had to buy this house for us.

And what you did though, was you did that without her. He was not aligned to that. He was giving you lip service. But this was not her idea. IT was sure.

Yeah, now, now you're .

surprised that she's unhappy of your plan that did not have include her. So this is like, I got to, you know what? About ten years been married forty three years, about ten years in a marriage age. I don't buy Sharon jewelry anymore that he hasn't seen.

Tell us why.

because why ugly?

I know.

according to her, but I spent a lot of my beautiful money on her ugly crap and then SHE didn't. She's like, I was I was about that and i'm like cheese or let's just not do that again. So I don't mind if Sharon has I mean, she's got erring the of a headlight.

but SHE picked them out and .

then he says they are healthy. They're that big. okay? And i'm like this ridiculous.

I'm like, okay, just get your air lobes and do some air low. Bfs start doing some workouts there in the gym because you picked them out. So see, that's a difference. See this girls not involved in this.

Yeah, you can tell by the the language. I saw all of .

my investment of sacks.

Yeah, he's only, he feels like he's the only one sacrifice. You can tell by the language weather.

but it's a thing, equal thing. Yeah, yeah, you can. I think we ve got a reset and go. We're not going anywhere from here. We're not making any major decisions without both of us involved.

And I learned that I went broke because I made a lot of decisions that were stupid, that talking to my wife, proverb, thirty one, says, who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trust her. And here's my favorite part.

He will have no lack of gain. And it's not in the bible, but IT might be in one version like second hesitations. Yeah, right after no luck again. SHE no longer. I told you so.

But you can .

say that when .

you .

are in decision, all you can say is we together made a dumb but decision. That's all you can say from this point and that IT, you can say you're an idiot. You can do anymore because now you can have to use plural, which change your Prices.

We are ideas. We did this right. And so that's what's going on here. Dude, you've got a reset. Uh, this idea you have put a little superman cape up of you're the pope and you're the provider and all this stuff and she's just a little woman and you're going to you're never gonna make a little happy snot going happen. So um she's going get on the same page and be like a grown woman and stuff and then sh'll become happy.

So weird. BaLanced power.

It's a big deal. Man, it's a big deal. This alignment and marriage is one of the things we find all the time.

And people's ability to get out of that people's they they succeed in their careers at a greater rate, they are. And their ability to build wealth because their aligned on sacrificing and they make decisions together. The first time we did that after going broke was we finally saved up a little bit of money. And I had ten thousand hours. He was driving a blue three tone astro van.

Remember those? Oh, one hundred percent .

completely ugly. The carpet was covered in toddler gold fish from the third kid. And I was nasty. This was a bad car, was an embarrassing vehicle.

When they first came out.

they were all right. Well, this was not first come out. And she's like, I need, I need a Better car. We need to move up to a suburban.

And I was going to I had ten thousand and fifteen thousand saved at the company getting ready to do this investment. We're going to buy this thing. And I was going to make one hundred thousand with this, fifteen thousand down here.

And she's like, we need to a car. And you know what, we did both, but we did the car first and then we did the company. And IT turns out now all these years later, I was okay, but in the moment, are lining on that with two grown ups was a big deal, a big deal.

This is the rami show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feet? Well, that's why we created the ramsey network, your single source for content that keep you motivated.

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Jay wash w. Ramsey, personality number one, best selling author of the book. Money is not a math problem.

She's my cohoes today. Open phones here at triple, eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five Scotts and lots of vegas. Hey, Scott, what's up?

I have you, dave longer listener. Um I really appreciate you guys taking my call 是 i came across the question today for investing purposes on my road k my work and I were looking for next year and looking at up and question came up about if I were to put that， say, fifteen percent of my income and I hit the I R S cap that say october and november little that negatively negatively affect how my company match for the remainder the year where i'm not at any money. I don't know if a number that's gone to be a six number regardless this will the company is six percent match be the same if that .

if I hit ted and not to U H R. Team, that's not a, not a reg. A way to be able to .

calculate that, to be able to look at even previous, because a couple years I had made I hit that number in I tower, and then two years only have a little bit more money in my pocket throughout the course. And I spread IT out with a little bit lower number and let IT hit the last page up in december, know if that was gonna from the negative impact of the world.

I look at the total for that year, total invested by you in then the total match and divided until what the percentage was wrote.

I tell you .

I mean some companies match up to a certain among some companies match all away through um we match a percentage regardless of what you put in when regardless of when you put in. And so I mean, i've got some high income owners that fully fun theirs in the first quarter, and then they just don't they don't have that because they can they max IT out completely. They are not allowed to put any more than that.

And so not by us, but by regulation. And then we match that as they do IT whenever they do IT whatever they do same. But that's a company decision as to what how the match is done. Um and if you have to drag IT out to get the full match.

I would drag IT out they if you need to do twelve .

even months to get the full match, then do twelve match match more valuable than the early portion of the investing. But the other that brings up another interesting thing, j, that sometimes people ask you, you know, should I spread my personal routh over twelve months or just do IT in january? You know, you should do IT in january as well.

Is the answer mathematically because the entire amount is earning throughout the entire year rather than a portion of IT earning each month more that. And so well, what if the market went down? Well, if the market goes down, none of this works.

So IT only works when it's going up. And overall, we know it's going to go up. IT could go up or down in a short time. But yeah so I scot, that's that's an hr and payroll and whoever managing your four one k your company question and you could get a hand before you even call on m by looking at the percentage they gave or the dollars they gave last year as a percentage of what you put in last year and see if that matches their standard match rate.

And that would tell you, you know, if you looking like six percent, then you go, okay, you know, I put in ten thousand dollars irregularly, but they still put in six percent of that six hundred box. And so, you know, whatever the number is, but that you can still look at that and figure that out 是 very cool， very cool, good stuff, man. That's a great question, by the way.

And here's a anything about all this people like him. It's not the answer to this technical question that matters. What matters is he's actually thinking about IT.

I was going to say that no, people don't think about IT there, not they think about IT. So the fact that he's maxing IT out, the fact that he's thinking .

through that is really, really great. Yes, the tension um you know one of things i've got a friend that uh his dad was the governor of tennessee in the thousand nine hundred and fifties and so he's seven in seventies but he was a little kid in short pants in the governors mentioned in the thousand nine hundred and fifties and um you know had a great discussion with him when I said the discussion in our family table growing up was politics and he said you know rich people talk about at the family table generosity and investing and value purchases, not cheap o .

purchase the important .

things you can do with my long term decision and so a rich kid grows up with a silver spoon because their parents got rich because they were concentrating on money. Not obsessed by IT, not worshipping IT like means that I didn't worship politics. They weren't obsessed, ed, but they were in that world is what they did.

And IT made me realize that's how, you know, if you grow up, uh, uh a uh, got a cousin, a car daler. And guess what? He owns a bunch cars. I wonder why.

Yeah, I think you end up talking about the things that are a of value to you in your life, whether it's religious beliefs, moral beliefs, hobbies, whatever that is that what you talk about, that what you pass down.

And so you you need be thought ful about that. But that's the same thing of the of Scott being intentional. What's him in his first center on the table talking about? Not other people's careers Carry in a football. Well, let me tell you about their careers and how they're gone. Well.

I think that's one of the I mean, we kind of talk about this early, but if you're if you're on social media and you know more about pedi and you know more about other celebrities s finances and you know more about what you know so and so is driving and you don't even know about your own stuff, you don't know the state of your own affairs. You don't care that much about your own financial situation, about your own relationships.

That's yeah red flag backwards.

Really more into pop culture than your own culture.

I was at a tightened football game one time a long, long time ago and the seats were not great and the guy in front of us um was a large man species without a shirt and he painted .

his his .

big self blue were the big tighten thing on his chest and he yield and screamed like the world was coming to and on every play he cost the coach, you don't like that and on every play he cuts the players. And I told my wife, I said, if he was as enthusiastic about his career or his marriage as he is about watching these Young kids down here play in football, he, he would probably have a good life. Wrong, wrong. Dose you know.

you got a channel to the right cause? I mean.

i'm sorry, I get IT. If you're in college and you and your buddies all have too many beers and paint letters on your chest and take your cloth off or whatever I get that, take your your shirts off anyway, I get that I don't get fifty six years old yeah and obese. I don't get that one.

okay? It's just gross. All right, i'm just saying IT, just saying IT for all the rest, I was out there. This is the msy show.

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I'm not mad about that. And speaking of inflation, americans are about to spend close to a trillion dollars as Christmas, and get this, one third of that spending will be swiped on credit cards. Yx, now I get IT you want the holidays to feel magical and you want to have a good time, but trust me, there is nothing magical about staring down a mountain of credit card debt come january.

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J wash a ramsey personality is my cohoes today. Sydney is in sinani, ohio. Hi sydney, welcome to the ramsey show.

Hi, thanks for taking my call.

是 what's up um so i'm .

kind of new to the day and the universe um but I and currency like working to your steps currently on step three and over there this here I got and by and soon long forgiveness um and a refund check with that so I am completely consumer that free outside my mortgage .

OK stop second stop。 Stop your second present. Biden has issued several press releases, but the all of the debt forgiveness was all programs that we're already in existence.

He took credit for him, but they're already there. Aside from that, what um what was the forgiveness that you got with what type? What was the situation?

Just my like student loans like my school was deemed predatory or whatever .

OK OK that's been implied for twenty years. Schools that are predatory and go broke. The student loans are forgiven for the last twenty years.

and there should be.

and that is a standard, forget. So so the student loan that you took out with this predatory trade schools, what they typically are or some kind of online schools, something like that, they they took out, they gave you student loans.

They were federally insured student loans and the federal government forgave those because they deemed the school to be predatory, right? You get back ah how much did how much did you have you paid into IT and they gave you that back. That's what the refund check was.

yes. And so I use that to pay off um my car, my form killing that I used to do my mortgage. I know that's like against the I learned that now you .

are get into that .

then OK OK and paid up my credit card. So i've been consumed .

that for every one.

No.

I take that off as well. good. where? How did you get back?

How much .

that I like sixteen.

seventeen thousand back? Okay, okay. That cleared up some of the reminder mesh shall let me thank you.

You pay so.

right? So the student loan was taken out. The money was given to the predatory school. The predatory school goes, ke, you are forgiven the student loan, and they refunded you what you had paid on the student loan. I don't think that type of loan forgiveness is taxable. Most loan forgiveness is taxable, but this is a different program because you did not actually receive the money here. The money you receive back with your money you .

paid paid against .

the loan yeah that was already yeah. So if you take out a credit card long and you go back something for yourself or you put the money in your pocket, right, and then they forgive that, that's taxable, but you got the benefit of that. You did not get out any benefit here. I don't think this is taxable, but you're gonna have to check with the tax professional .

to be sure yeah that I want to see really had inside because i'm currently getting laid off and my plan is to file my taxes like first thing next year to help bird any potential government employment. And i'm going to take on do I wait?

I don't I don't think you're gonna get taxed on that. I don't think you're going to here's the White let's get you appear answer. Here's the way to do IT go to ramsey solutions dot com.

And we have and we call endorsed local providers are people that we have voted, and we are comfortable with their professionalism and the quality of care that they give. One of them is in the area of tax. So you're looking for a tax E L P indorse local provider at ramsey solutions dot com in your area of since sina.

There will be one or two or three of them. Okay, holler one of them and talk to them about preparing your taxes and ask them on the phone if this type of loan forgiveness is taxable. Tell them, dave said he doesn't think IT is, but for them to double check .

IT yeah and I see something on here that says, and I don't know, this was a part of american rescue because this was kind of in place before .

that this is not american .

rescue yeah but he says that if they are discharged between january first in december thirty first of twenty twenty five, they are not taxable. so. You shall see.

okay. I don't think you're going a text on this one. Okay, okay, good question.

Good question. And lesson learned. Politics aside, politicians tend to take credit for things they didn't do. It's part of being a politician.

And like when I was an interviewing president trump, uh before the election um one of the things I told him was people like me that own small businesses and actually do create jobs a kind of pisses us off when your politicians say you create jobs because you politicians don't create nothing or you can do create an environment for those of us that actually create jobs to function and he kind of laughing goes well as right but then know the next week he comes out, talks about all the jobs he created but that's that's politicians and biden didn't forgive these loans either. This program has been in place that since student loans have been there, predatory landing. So like a trucks driving school that goes broke or A A tech school, you go get a computer certification.

But there are just are are some of times they like hair care or A A massage thai or something like that. And they they'll get student loans, go on to these things and they can get up, up and they make a turn of money, and then they turn the key and walk away with all the money their pocket. They're their scams. There are front is what they are and they pop up and then they die.

They pop up and then time television, if you're watching judge Matthews or all, I feel like that's all that's on T V R. These I don't want to call em education institutes.

but that's what they call themself. Yeah so we would be doing IT as a man. But but the federal student loan forgiveness has been there for those types of situations for at least twenty years at least till listen.

if you really want to get technical, it's never administration forgiving to its taxpayers, forgiving your we .

don't get a choice, we just .

get the bill. Let's put the the check on who is really yes.

that's for sure. Yeah anytime the government what was that right and said if the government says, if somebody says i'm from the government, i'm here to help yeah run yeah that's that's the bottom line there and that's either party or to tell you so this is but that's the thing to remember. And just a either way, the good news is bothering if you pay if someone passed away in your family, the student loans are forgiven.

They spend that way thirty years. If someone is permanently disabled, their student loans are forgiven. It's been that way for thirty years. okay. That that's not a new program.

It's been since i've been on the air, you know that we've been talking about this so that the stuff but either way, you do have to deal with the tax question. So sydney smart to ask that question about the taxes. I think i'm pretty sure you're not going na get tax, but don't take the taxi ice. So here here .

IT is I found IT borrowed defense. So this is a program that eliminate their student learn belonging to borrowers who their college misled them or if their school engaged in misconduct, if they violated any state tells the IOS has issued notices for these, and they are not taxable as income OK.

That's according to google also also checked that out because it's on the internet and I M. Lincoln said everything on the internet. So yeah, yeah.

that's thing .

you get me, but that's probably you probably .

you found that on .

the once again, please don't take the advice or mine. Please get a professional to be sure. But IT sounds like that we're on to something.

There sounds like we're on the right track. So good stuff. Very, very cool.

Hi, ladies and gentleman. That's how we do IT listen the way the student loans go away. Jay, have your student loans.

Go away, work all. There's that it's it's a new program. It's a brand new programme is out.

It's called dk, yeah, it's called you wake up in the morning, you go to work and you stay at work all day and then you take the money and you pay off your loans for a long time.

You want to get radio show.

You don't have you don't do a whole lot other in between. You just work and pay off the loans and work and pay off the loans.

My grandmother used to say there's a great place to go when you broke to work. Love IT. This is the ramsey shape. Hey, guys, i'm never done this before, but i'm partnering with a nutrition company, field of Greens.

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Jane wash w. Ramsey, personality number vestings author, is my cohosh today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage, alex and bra or others. Hey, guys, how are you itself? welcome. welcome. What do you all live?

We're in party.

CoLori just itself. Denver, all the way over the nice, fail to do a debt free scream, how much if you paid off?

So day we paid off three hundred and five thousand dollars, or three hundred and five, four hundred and fifty.

Sorry, how long did that take?

Three years, two months and thirteen days.

three years and two months. wow. And your range of encounter in that time.

our land of income was one hundred and forty eight thousand to two hundred and forty thousand.

Wow, I jump. What do you all do for living?

I am full time with the color red army national guard.

and i'm a civilian with the army national guard as a cost account.

A very good, very good. Well, thanks for your service. Well done, you guys.

Good one. Very fun. What kind of debt was this? Three hundred and .

five thousand .

I made up.

I can talk about .

the smile. I love IT. Wow, you guys are so weird.

I love IT. Where dose good work? How much is this house worth?

Eight hundred fifty thousand.

how. Older you .

too early thirties wow.

And you paid for eight hundred and fifty thousand. How much in your nesting? And you're four one case in retirement.

around three hundred.

So you're millions in your early thirties. We are. I'm so proud of you.

Thank you. Look at you too. Wait to go. Man, when you got married, how broke are you?

We are actually fairly new to this made about four years ago. So end of journey as singles.

Okay, okay. yeah. All right. So you just took off and get this quickly. what? Tell us your rampage, or how do you get plugged into three years in two months ago?

Well, SHE started a long time before I did, was kind of mess around. And then he gave me your total money .

make when we were deciding if we going to date or not. I was like, read this book and let's talk about IT. I have the right answers .

next dinner because .

I read IT and only like doing all stuff.

Anyway, I got that being broke. And then like, all this is easy enough. So being kind of money person anyways, I was like, I, well, this is simple. I read the book at the seven steps and I just like.

okay, to do IT, here we go. I love IT. Very cool, very cool. So you guys met at the national guard has, yes, yes, okay, very good, man. That's a great situation you're in after just four years of marriage in your early thirties. But IT sounds like, brad, you had a head start on IT.

Yes, I go up with parents who didn't do that. And so when I moved out, I I didn't do that .

at the house after marriage.

we did. As soon as we got married, we became a family of five. We had his son and my two kids the day we ve got married. So I lived in a tiny little house, and we went out and we put over fifty percent down on our house and decided just to kick IT. So we made this kind of like our baby step two, okay, just take off pretty .

intense then.

Yeah, yeah. A big part of this was that we wanted to teach F, P, which we had done the past. And we, you just actually finish doing a week ago.

yes. Yeah, we just so we wanted .

to kind of be like placate you reach and because we didn't have a step two together, we kind of treated, you know pay off the mortgage like our step to even though not exactly advised.

I get that, alex, would you pay off before hand? Because for you that was kind of .

the the change. I was working a credit card in my car, paying those off. And I think together, that was nineteen thousand.

Okay, wow.

So to put the screws to IT.

yeah.

he said, not allowed. Very cool. Well, thanks for.

thanks for teaching for entropic, an university that had to be a great class. You guys had to be like cloud nine.

yeah. yeah. Pretty excited.

Yes, we thought IT once and then we we took the most motivated couple that was there. And we we were their coal leaders next time around.

So this last time and we just finish yeah later.

that I love IT build the next generation. Good for you. Good for you.

Alright, when you're coordinating a class or when someone else how you're a million air at age early thirties with a paid for eight hundred and fifty thousand dollar house and you don't make two million dollars a year either um when someone ask how did you do that? What are you tell? The key to getting out of .

that is hard work for sure. I think between the two of us, we had about thirteen jobs. We had a solid job and then we took on several side jobs. We can tell you what .

more so now the same time. But over the three years I were doing this, um I work at home people for a summer. We both worked um delivering packages for amazon. I was a tax assistance as at R C P A office um we both had landscape in I did you burn lift? I was a service national guard. I did andy men work SHE sold items on next door so as a whole bunch of not all at once, but like there was always something going on just a kind of keep IT new and different so so what happens next?

You've got a paid for house. You don't have a payment in the world. Where are you planning?

Um I think our next thing is public cars. I try very old, various cars, nothing new but new to us, probably newish or newer minivan. And then he needs a nicer computer cards from six cars.

something from I love that .

I first want to move .

up to this decade and move, that's good, very cool. Well, I mean, you drove those beaters and now you'll never have to. Again, make sure you take pictures of them before they leave.

Because I, i've got pictures of every car except one. And I really wish I had that one, the original those beers I head somehow managed. And not that was back when when we actually had film and stuff like that in cameras. So anyway, anyway, but but you good, good job you guys who was cheering you on, as you will .

have a home a time so matter like I mentioned our cohosh finial peace a .

little cheat cheat .

yes at all angles brother loyd .

and his wife hai .

are on this journey and the right behind us and baby step two um paul in velocity and shann rosa in our class and F, P U were join us along and also learning along with us and then several coworkers we have missis's ms. Morano m mislead. And was Jennifer um that .

mother later?

Did you have anybody telling you not today .

this a people kept say you were crazy, right?

What what was the most lucrative sad hustle? And they make the most money.

probably amazon flex, just because they give you box of time. And if you finish IT early, you get paid for that full box. Whether or not we would take our older kids along with us and they would draw us packages from the back, we could finish IT three hour road in an hand half and then go pick up another one.

Which one did you dislike the most?

Probably there was .

a lot of days we would .

be up three thirty in the morning we go, or actually earlier than that would be there three thirty we go. Our real jobs at six thirty seven. And then sometimes effort.

I want .

to take a shift, so sometimes work in ninety hour plus weeks.

And the was IT worth IT. IT was truly worth that.

The grass really does feel different under your site yeah .

tell somebody why because people call on all the time and they're like i've got a low interest story. It's they feel like it's not worth IT to them. But here you are doing IT and you sacrifice to do IT.

I was a simplified kind of person, so I just want to worry about and now we really get to, you know, put IT towards our retirement accounts. So we ables to max out our roofs. And I think five years ago, I like my, you know net amounts. And so I wasn't you making this mount you know, five years ago, and that's after putting in know max roth contributions and having all things come out. So it's just it's a big thing all the way and now .

I get to stay home.

Yes.

but oh, wow, very good, I guess. So you're million. That's me of IT.

I'm so pretty. Your amazing. I mean, in the early thirties, so well done.

Are the kids is going to scream with you. Yeah, let's get him up here. Inroads some give us our names and ages 哦 oh.

we .

lose one, become all the little say it's okay, should get up here that, oh my god, all right, how that's perfect. Our election. Brenda, ed, leon lo, ana and five thousand counter.

Three, two, two, one.

where?

Going to scared the little one that that's good baby steps millionaire in their early thirties. What they do follow the stuff we teach. This is the ramsey show.

Hey, guys, day rams here and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the money and relationships tour with doctor john loney. This is the most interactive event we've never done.

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J watch rampy personality mo host today, rams is black friday is going on right now yet early access to some of our best deals of the year, meaningful gifts for family and friends as low as eight dollars, our best selling books like the total money make over baby steps of millionaire oh, your past change your future only twelve dollars audio books and e books only eight dollars Rachel cruise wallet right now. The in black and camel and Brown and champagne on sale questions for human cards on sale at just twelve dollars, including the new Christmas edition. Check out the black friday sales and you can check out everything, including James book.

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It's a little champagne action. There are her. That's what they call IT. Grand rapids is in michigan. IT is then as they're high down, how are you .

the argument to this Better .

than I deserve?

What's up?

Okay, make a long stories short. Um i'm then between bigger step one, bigger step two, you know, this is going good stuff. Stuff breaks from my thousand dollars. Get rebil baby. Step one, um I ve got my girlfriend who is going to married that family.

SHE has .

twenty thousand dollars in credit, her debt SHE SHE found his company a created debt relief. They offered us a payment of three hundred and fifteen thousand months for forty eight months that's to pay off the credit guards. The problem is that only sixteen thousand four hundred dollars. I don't understand how this .

should work um because it's the same as falling bankrupcy. It's going to destroy her credit. Here's the way they work. Stay away from them. Stay away from them.

But here's why, okay? The way they work is when you sign up with them, they take over all of your payments. And the first thing they do, they stop making any payments and they let all the credit cards go into default.

If they're not, they're already and ah so that they go to default and the credit or companies then will settle a bad dad. Now he will be in collections on every one of them and then they'll settle the bad debt for a lesser amount than his old and set up payments on that. And that's how they know that they can get you a sixteen thousand.

And by the way, if you did this yourself and just quit paying for a year which I don't recommend, same thing would happen. Then you can call them and settle for probably a quarter on the dollar. So you probably settle this for five or six thousand bucks, but that is also not paying your bill when you're able to number one.

Number two, you've completely destroyed your credit. I mean, nasty by nasty, you got a bunch of outstanding bad debt at that point. And that's the way these people work.

And IT basically does the same thing to your a credit as falling chapter of thirteen bankrupt. He does. You can do in the p you can file with the trap of thirteen bankrupcy.

If you qualify for the bankrupcy under guidelines, then you can pay a percentage, not one hundred percent. But you could pay, in this case, you said sixteen out of twenty one, right? Yeah, yeah.

You could pay. So you could pay seventy five cents on the dollar. You could agree to pay seventy five percent to my unsecured creditors in my chapter thirteen. That's not forty eight months at sixty months.

But um they could do the exact same thing there and it'll do the exact same thing to our credit only technically she's file for bankrupt and the other one SHE didn't technically for for bankrupcy, but IT does the same amount of damage, if not more, to your reputation into the process. Plush your screw. You're indeed twenty one thousand dollars for forty eight for four years when you could have paid IT off by next Christmas work in five .

jobs yeah why can you just pay? Why can you just work more paid off till us more about that? What's the income?

Uh I worked the railroad. I'm on twelve right now, which is legally the most I can work. Um she's a teacher and she's still starting to games on flags but he is a daughter .

but what you did just .

like the director of .

uh but you different .

um like daycare shes she's be a data teacher but she's not like the direction a bunch of those he makes about fifty five thousand years okay.

All right now instead of doing now that I explained to you and answered your question what IT does, i'll give you a suggestion rather than doing that. okay. And what i'll do is i'm going to give you financial patient sly and every dollar plus for both of you.

She's going have her account. You're going to have your account because you're not married, okay? And I want both of you to get on a detailed type budget, don't spend any money on anything, live on being some rice, no eating out, no vacations and working extra. If he has a teaching degree and a talent in a particular subject like math or english can do tutor and make more than amazon flex, but if SHE can get some students from the local elementary or local junior heart, whatever, and SHE teaches math in the afternoons or the math and the evenings after SHE gets home, I mean, you can make thirty to fifty dollars .

an hour doing that yeah childcare .

two and your kids set in the other room while you're doing .

this if they come to your house .

yeah i've got a friend that's a reading specialist that makes bank while our kids sit the other room and on the side and am is serious money there because I got reading problems and man, she's while it's really cool stuff so anyway, yeah, that's what I would add to this. And they are were going to increase our income. We're going to tighten down every thing, our new thought.

We're going to get all these credit cards tonight, have plastic surgery and we're going to pay about a hundred percent more amp ign so fast that they're in our review mirror and we get a life but forty eight months, men like saying i'm going to jail. You got to go to jail for four years and you barely ly gear switch. We bring the food slided under the bars.

No, thank you. I don't want live like that. I want to get choice. No, man.

the goal needs to be if you can find an extra, if you can make a goal that we're gonna or she's gona make seventeen hundred extra dollars.

find IT .

every single month.

What does that look like is is have already yeah yeah so um yeah that that's kind of stuff for doing dance so we're going to help you with that um it's the hard way but it's the fast way. It's deep sacrifice, but it's a new review mirror. You get to have a great life on the other side of IT versus signing up for a long slug through the mud.

That's what we're doing. And and at the end of IT, at the end of the story, you're still screwed because you just completely destroyed everything as far as credit goes. So he probably going have some dings on her credit probably really does, yes, but nothing like what you'd be signing up for if you go to those type of a company.

So we do not recommend them at all. Hang on the line. Uh, the team will pick up and we will get you signed up for financial page university, get her sign up. You guys you can go through the class together um but you need your own separate budgets because you're not married yet and you live you keep your finance of separate tier your marriage so good question, sir. I appreciate your check in on her behalf. Wow those things are, uh you see among cable T, V, and and those couple have been found like four hundred may one of got fine, like I can be four hundred million was at the fine the sum ridiculous one that tom so icon dressed in a veal trade commission hamar than with fines a couple of years ago because they just there is just a scummy sight of the world yeah.

it's scheme. And I I don't like situations where you take control from you and give IT to someone else to do things on your behalf.

And what they're doing is acting like I didn't pay my bill so that they can get a discount. I mean that in trashing my stuff in the meantime, but we're we're in the um we're in the debt relief business just like dmc. No, you're not not not even not even close, not even close the same thing.

So you have stay away from those things and they call themselves are also that consolidation ah and it's not that consolidation ation. You're not consoler dating that because all dying, that's when you get one debt and pay off all the others with the one debt or you don't pay off, you ve IT to the one debt. But that's like a home actually one that's debt consoler dating but not paying them and you paying these goobers one payment that's not consolidation at all and it's really not debt relief.

No.

it's not relief. It's well at the end. I guess that isn't one sense, but one to one, two percent of people that completed IT is probably pretty low.

That's a good question. interest.

You don't finish at your rubbish group. I puts this hour of the rami show in the books.

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