Chasing Easy Money Always Ends in Regret
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With your life and your money. That is our guarantee. Andrew is calling up first in St. Louis. What's going on, Andrew? How can we help today?

Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. I'm a massive fan of the show, so this is kind of an exciting moment for me. So my question is, I'm 20 years old. I had an emergency surgery about a year ago, and now I have $43,000 in medical debt that I had no idea what to do with. And so I'm needing some guidance on that. Goodness gracious. Oh man, did your insurance didn't cover?

Any portion of it? I don't have and didn't have insurance at the time. So no, there's no insurance. Did you tell them you were cash pay? Because usually you'll get a real steep discount. I didn't even mention that because at the time it was a...

all-in-one day thing. It happened so quick. And then at the time, I didn't even know how much it was going to cost. And then when I got to figure it out, I was so dumbfounded. I just didn't even know what to do with it. So I've just been sitting on it. How long ago was that? It's been almost a year. I think we're just shy of a month now, of it being a full year. Have you made any payments? No. Okay. Have they sent it to collections? No.

Yes, I think they've sent part of it to collections. I haven't checked in to see if they've sent the full amount, but I know definitely 5,000 of that figure has for sure gone over there. I don't know about the full. Was that through a letter, Andrew, or how did they contact you? Yeah, so that was a letter I got in the mail and then email from the hospital themselves. Okay. Where are you financially? Are you working? Are you a student? Yes.

Yeah, I'm working. I'm one of three partners in a general contracting business that I've owned for five years with my dad and brother. And then just this past year, I started up a photography studio and that's starting to pick up steam. So I bring in about 20 to 25 a year. That's just what I take, though. I generally don't take more. I've only taken what I need. From the photography or the dental? Yeah.

What did you say? You said you're a general contractor? The general contractor, yes. That's my general contracting. I take $20 to $25 a year. Okay. Do you have health insurance now?

No, I am getting it written up for me now. I've not really paid any mind to it until now because I feel like it's been sitting a little long. It's from a buddy of mine. He writes insurance for me and he's looking in to see what he can get me as far as health. Okay, so he's a legitimate insurance broker? Yeah.

Yes, he's an insurance broker. He's looking into what he can write for me, yes. Okay, that is something you need to get in place today. Okay, I'm wondering why, from an income perspective, Andrew, did the surgery affect your ability to work?

No, not at all. The income number is by standards really low. It's just what I take. So I don't have... Could you take more? I don't understand. Are the rest of the profits...

Yes. Well, I do. I do work. So basically what it is is my expenses are very low because I don't have rent. I don't own a home. I'm still at home with my parents. So I do pay them utilities and rent, but it's very small. I have a very small monthly budget. So essentially I just take enough to cover that monthly budget and a little bit extra to put in savings is all it is. So I don't. So you're not charging full rate of the work you're doing as a contractor? No.

No, the business is that I'm not taking. So where is that money going? Yeah, where's the rest of the money that you're owed for the work that you're doing? Well, it's not money that I'm owed. It's just money that we leave in the business and use for business expenses. And then I just take what I need for my personal expenses. So how much could you pay yourself today? How could you get $42,000 to pay off your medical bill? Uh...

I don't like the way that's structured, Andrew. Do you know what I'm saying? If you're working 40 hours a week, you should be compensated. You're making $10 an hour, busting your butt. That sucks. That's not... You should be compensated. Well, yeah. It's compensated more than that. It's difficult to explain because a lot of my expenses, a lot of other expenses are ran through the business. So...

It's just my personal expenses. I know, Andrew, but you need more money to start saving. You need more money to start investing. You need more money for you to start saving for a down payment for a home. You need more money. You're going to be stuck in the cycle the rest of your life. You're going to be stuck in this forever and not have any cash flow available to you. Does that make sense? You won't even be able to build up an emergency fund making $20,000 a year.

So your structure in this company is pretty whack. It doesn't allow you to be self-sufficient, which is part of the problem of you seeing $43,000 of a medical expense and you don't know how the heck you're going to pay it because you're not making anything. Even though your expenses are low, that's not the way to calculate an income. Does that make sense? Yeah. For you to be self-sustaining. Now, if you are working part time, that makes sense.

But for you to be a self-sustaining adult where you are a full-time worker, you need to be thinking beyond what your expenses are now because you don't want to be where you are now in five, ten years, do you? Like, you want a house. You want to be living on your own, paying your own electricity. Yeah.

And you're about to have health insurance premiums kick in. So you definitely need to make more. Yeah, because that scared me pretty good when I had this happen. Yeah, for sure. So this is kind of your wake-up call to, you need to be restructured. The way you're paid...

needs to be. And my fear is, is that the way you guys have conducted this family business is that they need you only pulling out 20,000 a year because they need more for profit. Like I'm scared that you're getting shortchanged as an investment, quote unquote, back into the company, but they're needing that margin to keep the company afloat. And if you said, hey, I need to be paid market rates as for an income, would they be able to afford you?

I hear what you're saying. I do hear that. I'm just, I don't really know how to explain it because a lot of my expenses are gone through businesses. That makes sense. I don't know. I don't.

Okay, what expenses? Because I'm trying to help loosen this rope for you so that you can make more money to pay off $43,000 of debt that you have. Does that make sense? Yeah. Basically, anything that can be a business write-off is put through the business. We don't draw it into a personal income. Does that make sense?

Yeah, but your food, your grocery. I mean, I know you live at home. It's just it's a very tangled way to do life right now, Andrew. So from a money perspective. So I want you to hear that. I understand you guys are trying to do all these loopholes so you don't pay taxes. But you're getting screwed in the process, Andrew. You have no money. You're on the poverty line. You have no money and you're living with your parents and you're expected to be paying $43,000 of a medical debt. So something needs to be restructured.

for you to make more money. You have to, Andrew. These bills are coming. So I need you to feel the gravity of that. This is an adult decision and the business is going to have to be making some different decisions for you or you're going to have to leave the business and go get a job to pay this debt. You got to face the music and choose reality, negotiate down the debt as low as you can, and hopefully you can get out of this mess soon.

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I'm doing great. So my question is, I got remarried a couple years ago. Cool. And I have significantly more money than my husband. Congrats. Thank you. He's got maybe like $15,000 worth of...

a credit card and student loan debt that I kind of offered to help with. And he was like, no, no, I want to do it. I'm just wondering if I should like push that or if I should just,

Help him in other ways, like with budgeting or just to get him on the path to do it himself. All of it. How much money do you have liquid? Could you write a check today and be done with all the debt and still have plenty of money left over? Yes. Okay. It sounds like this is a pride thing for him of like, no, I took out this debt. I made the mess. Let me clean it up as the man.

He's a firefighter, and he's like, I want to do it. And he's only been on for a couple years, so it's like he's making more now. So I told him to pause his contributions, which he did listen to me. And so he will probably have it knocked out in the next six months anyway. Okay. Yeah, I think for me...

Because, yeah, like you said, the debt will be paid off and it's not going to be even an issue, you know, here in a few months. But I think the bigger problem is the alignment on which you guys are making that decision because you are still speaking as if it is two different things.

you know, money situations under the one household versus if you all were saying, you know, as a couple, our goal is to build wealth and to do these things, whether it's replace a car, go on a great vacation. Like we have these goals in life that we want to do. And what's the fastest way to accomplish those goals together. And the fastest would be to get out of debt ASAP and start working towards those goals together. So, but that's more of a holistic viewpoint that we see this situation as us and

not just him and you, right? So that's it. I mean, the debt's going to go away, but my fear is that this mindset still stays and it'll take you guys longer to win financially and miss so many opportunities to continue to build a level of connection and intimacy as a couple and to say, hey, we are one in every aspect of our lives, including this one. And so it just kind of stunts that if you continue with this mindset. Yeah.

So how would, I guess from my side and from his perspective,

Like, how would I... I've been working, and I don't know how you hit right on that, but you did. Because it is like a struggle for me because I feel like I've worked really hard and sacrificed, and I don't even have a college degree. I'm a really hard worker, and I don't buy things that I shouldn't. So how do I...

Approach it with him. Yeah. I mean, I mean, with him, I feel like I bother him when I'm really like, oh, we need to be budgety. And he's like, all right, all you want to talk about is money. Totally. Totally. Yeah. So I think you can appreciate and George, you probably speak into the suit with you and Whitney. You can appreciate opposites like.

Winston, my husband, is like, hey, look at this Excel sheet for the next seven years. I'm like, I don't really even want to look at that, even though I talk about money every day of my life. He's more into that stuff. George loves a budget. Whitney's a little bit more of a free spirit. She likes to know there is a spreadsheet. She doesn't want to actually look at it. Yeah, there you go. So you guys are going to have different personalities, but don't let that stop you guys as seeing yourselves as a team when it comes to your money and seeing yourselves as one. So

So, yeah, I think if you go to him, to your point, and you're like, we need a budget tonight. I'm just so excited. I want a budget. He's going to be like, oh, Christine. Oh, my gosh. Like, geez. You know what I mean? I think you guys need a dream date and cast some vision. Yeah, but I think it's more of like, it's just the mindset of...

You know, it's not about the budget. It's not about the debt. It's us together as a couple. I want to do this life together. And part of that is like sharing the responsibility money wise like that. I just want to I want to work out of one account. I don't want to Venmo each other bills and and your income and my income like it. Let it all go to one account. And together as a household, we are running this household in this family. And money is just a tool to allow us to do the things that we want to do in life. And let's do that together versus separate. Right.

And so that's kind of the way I would approach it. And then the tactical side out of that, once you guys agree on that holistic picture together is, okay, together as one, what do we need to do to be financially healthy? Well, we need to have an emergency fund of $1,000. Check. Okay, we need to be completely debt free. All right, that's our next goal. Perfect. Let's put some of this money that's now in one account. You know what I mean? Put that $15,000 there, pay that off. Great. Now we need an emergency fund. Okay, great. Let's do that.

Next, we have a dream because we've done a dream date, just like George said. And we have a big dream to take the family to this destination in two years. So what do we need to save each month to do that? Right. Like you start actually planning and living life together. Right. Is that helpful? Because I understand what you're saying. And I think if we I think couples usually go the tactical side. Zoom out. Yes. First. And then you reverse engineer it with the tactical. Right.

It's, I have like a, a good amount. Like I have probably like close to half a million and plus I have about a few hundred thousand and like a rental that, um, I own. So I, I have to, I know I have to work on that and like combining and really switching my mind. Yeah. Is this a second marriage for him?

No. Okay. I'm just trying to figure out where this is coming from, and it feels like, well, she's coming in to swoop in and save me because she's done a great job and I've done a poor job. And his whole life, his job is to save people. He doesn't want that.

You know what I mean? It's emasculating to be like, well, can you come save me from my debt? I messed up. And so I think you haven't been approaching it with any sort of attitude of, well, you need to fix this and I'll fix it for you. I think let him experience some of this sacrifice and also paint the picture of the future and go, what's the best way to accomplish this? Great. Let me just pay this off. You're going to be sacrificing the rest of your life in this marriage to build wealth together. But let's get a clean slate faster. Mm-hmm. Okay.

I hope that helps with him. I mean, if he really wants to do this on his own, he can. But again, it's not going to lead you guys toward the unity that you need as a couple. Yeah. And I'm assuming, Christine, so correct me if I'm wrong, you fully trust him financially? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. Good. Good. Because to your point, there is a level of like, oh my gosh, you know, I've saved half a million dollars and handing that over, right? I mean, just...

We want to just all say out loud, yes, this is a person that is trustworthy to share in goals and us together walk this path. Right. Because we get calls sometimes, Christine, which is not your case, thankfully, but calls that they're like, I don't really trust them. And you're like, all right, well, let's hold the brakes, tap the brakes then before we do that. No, it's not that. I mean, honestly, it's like the opposite. Like he, like you mentioned, George, I

I don't think he does not want to feel immaculated. If anything, we have two small children. He's like, you don't have to work. I'll work more overtime. And I'm like, no, it's okay. I'll keep contributing, and I can. But I don't want to take that away from him either as a man. This is in the South. We call this blocking a blessing.

All right. If you're offering this gift to him and he's saying, no, no, no, no, that's blocking a blessing. All right. If someone wants to take me out to dinner, even though I can afford it, I'm going to say yes, because that's a gift they want to give me. And I think you as his new wife, it's something that you're offering and it feels like he needs to work for it.

And the truth is he doesn't. He got you. That's the best gift of all. Aw. Thank you. So maybe he'll listen to this call and he'll be tracking. Yeah, and it doesn't make you less of a man or a woman. I understand for guys it's a totally different perspective. I think there's differences in men and women when it comes to how we relate and see and view money. But that's the problem, too, is I think we've related so much of our money, either our mistakes or our successes with who we are as a person.

And that's just not the truth. So whether he made a lot of mistakes with money or didn't make a lot or you were really great with money or you weren't great with money, like regardless, it doesn't matter much.

It doesn't affect who you are as a person. And you guys married because you loved the person. And yet we live in this world where money suddenly is like this measuring stick. And so I have to earn and find value and covering up and making up for my mistakes. No, take all that off. That's not on you. We're doing this together. Beautifully said. Thanks for the call, Christine. This is The Ramsey Show. ♪

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah. I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own banks.

credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. And but that's what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds.

They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service. And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love it. The things that we teach, they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding. It took less than five minutes.

It was so user friendly, like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I

I so, so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds.

and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Fairwinds is federally insured by NCUA. ♪

The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by YRefi. If you're buried in defaulted private student loans, you're not alone. Reach out to YRefi to see if they can help build a custom plan to help dig you out. Visit YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right. We have today's question from Denise in Massachusetts.

My 51-year-old son invested $600,000 in a crypto exchange scam, and he cannot recover the funds. An attorney says he can sue the exchange that facilitated the transaction. However, after fees, he can only expect to recover about $25,000 of it. Should he go forward with the process of trying to at least get some of his money back?

Yikes. Gosh, George, that's one of the highest ones I've heard. You invest $600,000 and you'll be lucky to get $25,000 out? You're telling me there's 96% fees? Right. I just don't understand that part. Yeah. But is the juice worth the squeeze here? I'm going to say no. Because, I mean, the attorney is going to cost money. I don't know if that includes – I assume that includes attorney fees.

We don't know. But the time spent and then the mental energy and it living rent-free in your head during this entire time, which could take years to go through with this. I don't think it's worth it. This is...

What we would call a stupid tax on steroids. Well, $600,000? If you were going to get potentially $600,000 back, I'd say, yeah, let's fight it. Yeah. But to get a 4% return on this, I don't think it's worth it. I would try to rebuild as best as he can. I mean, if he was able to amass $600,000 liquid to invest, I hope he does well for himself and he can try to rebuild. Could you imagine? Yeah.

I don't know that I... I mean, this would take years of... This would make me sick. I would take the money you're going to put into this and just go to therapy. Honestly. That's really what I would do. Because you experienced a trauma that no one should experience here. And it's one of the reasons I am not a fan of the...

The world of cryptocurrency. Yeah. Not crypto itself, just the world is rife with scams and fraud. So much scams. Yes. So many. And you can't tell what's what and what's real. And is the exchange going to go down? And that's brutal. But I personally, I don't think I'd go through with it for 25 grand. You can go make 25 grand for the time you would have spent fighting it. Yeah. Yeah. And then, like you said, if you have to pay attorney's fees on top of it, it's up to you. It could get real pricey. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, stay away from scams and don't invest a lot of your world into crypto. Yeah. That's just one man's take. Do you have any desire at all? No. Because, you know, your baby's up seven. I mean, like, if you had a million dollars in a high-yield savings account, George— Would I put any of it into crypto? Yeah. I think I—it hurts my soul to lose money, and there's too much downside to—

It's not worth the upside. You're like, I would just rather put everything in an index fund. Now, knowing what I know, would I have bought some Bitcoin 10 years ago? Absolutely. Right. Wouldn't we all buy into a company stock that we knew was going to blow up? Yeah, right. Sure. I would have bought Uber 15 years ago. Totally. Totally.

Absolutely. Not Peloton, though. Remember we looked that up? Yeah, Peloton. Oh, my goodness. It skyrocketed, you know, with the pandemic in 2021, and then it just flatlined back down. And so it just goes to show you even things that seem like it's a brand that will be around forever. Of course, yeah. And then you see Crocs exploding, and you're like, okay, what is happening now?

What is going on in the world? What's happening in the world? I have no desire. I'm not angry about it. It's not like a staunch principle that I'm anti. I would just rather put that into an index fund and lower my potential upside. Yeah, it's good. It's good. One man's take. All right. Tim is in Newark, New Jersey. Tim, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, guys. What's going on? Nothing much. My question for you guys would be, so I make $850 a month in a career that

I'm trying to pursue, like, long-term. Should I quit or stick it out because of the fact that it's, like, kind of a career I'm still trying to pursue? I think you're being generous calling this a career. What is this? So it's door-to-door sales for solar panels. I knock on, you know, door-to-door. Yep. And why are you only making $850,000? Um...

I think it's just because my skill isn't there yet. But you're telling me this is what you want to be doing? What do you want to be doing in the long term? Something in business long term. And I thought that this would be a good stepping stone because of your faith. I've heard that door-to-door is the hardest, so that would be a good starting point, I think. I mean...

Essentially, yes, door to door sales is very difficult. I think the craft of that and the world that we live in has changed. I think it 20 years ago was actually like a pretty profitable way to make to make some money. Nowadays, I don't think that is I think there's a way better ways for you to make more money and still learn sales and make more than 850. How are you eating, Tim? How are you living paying bills and stuff?

I basically, I mean, I live at home, so my rent is nothing, even though I've offered it. I use my parents' car for getting around. I pay for gas, but I don't. A lot of expenses are not there. How old are you? Which allows me to do this. I'm 23. Okay. Did you go to school? Yeah, so I graduated with a four-year degree. In what? From a pretty reputable college. Homeland Security. Wait, you have a degree in Homeland Security? Yeah.

Yeah. What was the goal in my senior year? So I originally went to college for kinesiology, for physical therapy, but then I failed out of it. So I moved to Homeland Security and like studied computers and computer science. So why aren't you working in like cybersecurity making six figures? That industry is booming. From everything I heard, like in my senior year of college, I figured that like it would make more sense to go into sales, but that's kind of like

Maybe not. I'm not entirely sure what's like, you know, life experience kind of just like,

Okay. Well, I think basic facts are your friends here going, okay, I'm making $8.50 a month. The average starting salary. That's what you can make less than that doing Instacart. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, more than that doing Instacart. I don't know who told you that sales was the answer. Yes, sales is a great skill to have. But if you're not good at it. Yeah. And I don't think doing door-to-door sales is your ticket to this grand career in business. Yeah.

I think right now we need to get a full-time stable job in the field that we graduated in. Even if that's not the full-time long-term thing, just get it now. Get out on your own. That's going to put some onus on you to figure this out in a different way. Okay. And you have the degree. Could you go get a – I'm assuming the field of cybersecurity. I don't know what else is out there in the IT world and the tech world.

Yeah, like, I mean, there's IT, there's cybersecurity, there's a whole... I would rather see you get an entry-level IT job at this point than the door-to-door solar sales. Okay, okay. Yeah, and the product you're pitching, Tom, or Tim, I'm sorry, is very expensive, right? So for people... It's like $30,000. For people to take that on... Yeah, it's a long-term commitment.

Right. Is that what you're paid to do right now? How are you making the $850,000? It's not commission?

Yeah, so it's commissioned. So if the person signs to put the panels on the roof, that's how I make money. And to tell the truth, so that $850 is also including like a first sign-on bonus. So it would actually be significantly less. It sounds like you're doing a lot of work for free, my man. How long have you been doing this?

Seven weeks. Oh, okay. I figured like, you know, it's like expected to be kind of like, you know, bad at the job when you're only seven weeks into anything, right? But the money is where I'm kind of like conflicted. Yeah, but if you're bad at a job that pays stable income, then you at least can eat. And right now you don't make enough to be on your own. And at 23 with a four-year degree, you should be on your own.

And not have to borrow your parents' car and stuff. You know what I mean? We're trying to be progressing towards something. And I think the field you're in, the way that this is being sold, I just don't see it being extremely successful anytime soon. And so, yeah, I'm with George. I would probably just go get a job in what your field is and then start dreaming and thinking. But we need to start practicing adulthood more than we are right now. ♪

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So median home prices went up slightly last month to $430,000. And more homes are on the market, nearly 1 million, which is the highest since 2019. But in many areas, it's still not enough to meet the buyer demand. Average 15-year fixed rate rose to 5.9% last month. It's still under 6%. I don't know if that's still the case at this very moment. I just saw rates for 30-year went up to just over 7%. So if you're financially ready, a small rate increase shouldn't hold you back.

If it went up 0.2%, that's not the difference maker. So if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, head to ramseysolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Zach is up next in Nashville, Tennessee, right down the road. What's going on, Zach? Hi, how are you? Great. How are you? I'm doing good. What's your question?

Yes. So I'm 22 years old. I'm currently making about $30,000 to $90,000 a month.

And I am trying to figure out when to make the jump into real estate because that's kind of where I want to take my end goal. Wow. Wow, Zach. We just talked to a caller who makes $850 a month. Yeah, can you spare some change for our friends? What are you doing to make $30,000 to $90,000 a month? What? So primarily day trading, specifically the futures market. Okay. How did you learn about this and are you using a platform? How does this all work?

Yes. So I've been like practicing for about three or four years now. And then I decided to my initial investment of three thousand dollars into an evaluation for a few prop firms. Yep. And essentially you use their capital and then you normally get to keep anywhere from 70 to 90 percent of the profits that you make.

And so I did that back in October and I was able to pay my student loans off by doing it. And I got a major in finance from Lipscomb. I graduated in December. And so I kind of decided that if I'm going to go all in on this, I might as well do it now and see where it took me. And how long have you been doing this? So with the live funded accounts since February or March. Okay. Which is using your own money.

No. So it's just the firms primarily at this point in time. So here's the question. If you're so good at this, why not use your own money? Yes. So a lot of the times right now, I don't have $150,000 that I want to invest in it. And I'm well aware of the risks. And if someone else is going to take on the risk for me, I was raised a Ranvi kid. So, you know, the less risk and the more success, then that's kind of where I was going with it.

Okay. So what happens if you make a bad trade? You get kicked out of these prop firms, right? Yes. So there are systems in place to where essentially I have certain drawdowns that I can hit. And a lot of times with every single trade I take, I normally try and move the stop loss, which automatically sells me out of the market to break even.

And so at that point, it's I don't want to say it's impossible to lose money by any means whatsoever. But like a bad day would be me breaking even or only losing about a thousand or two. OK, how much money do you have now that is liquid? About fifty thousand dollars. What are you doing with the rest of this money?

So I had to pay off my student loans because I paid for my own college. Okay. And then I've been in the process of trying to move just somewhere else in Nashville. So that's taken up a little bit, a little portion of it, because it was like the first month, last month, and that whole thing. And then I tried to put away some for taxes because I have to do it, obviously, I get taxed after. You're going to get hammered with taxes if you're making $30,000 to $90,000 a month.

Yes. You got to set aside 40%. I have been. My godfather's a CPA, so he's been trying to inspire me with some words of wisdom, and he's been big on like the 40% or 42%. And do you have any debt left? I do not, no. Good. And that $50K, let's call that your emergency fund plus some? Yeah, so that'll be like my emergency fund, and then, you know, if something else happens, like with family or, you know, I like to take care of the people around me. Okay. And what's your question today?

I am trying to figure out, so I've always wanted to get into real estate. And so I'm trying to figure out when the best time would be to make that move and to start investing in real estate as well. Because the trading only takes me about maybe three or four hours a day. And so that's kind of where I'm missing out, I think. And by real estate, for you to own properties for investment, for you to flip and make real

Make a spread for you? Primarily investing, and then I would try and do fix and flips when I could, when I have the time. Okay, so you're wanting to buy and hold and put renters in is what you're thinking? Oh, absolutely, yes. Okay. And obviously, Middle Tennessee, it's not cheap right now, so I was kind of wondering the best way to go with that. Yeah, for sure. Okay.

Yeah, well, with real estate, we always say if you're going to go beyond your primary residence, you want to do it with cash. And so being able to buy... And just really own a home first? Well, ideally, yes, to have a primary residence before you go and start doing investment real estate, yes.

So that would be my goal for you, Zach, honestly, would to move out of your parents and get a place of your own and start working. So I am renting. Oh, you're not living with parents. Yeah, no. So I moved down here from college. My family is in another state. Oh, I got you. Okay. So I've been renting, and then I just signed another year-long lease by myself. I got you. What are your monthly expenses right now, all in?

Probably only about three or four at most. That's probably an expensive month. Okay, so let's call it four grand. So you're telling me if you make 30 grand, you set aside, let's say, 40% of that, right? So you'd still have about 15 grand left to just throw into savings accounts every single year. I mean, every single month. Yes, sir. So then you could save up a whole lot of money in a year. I mean, you could have a down payment ready in six months.

Ideally, yes. Yeah. So the real estate side of the investment portion is it is great, but it's not for income producing. Right. It's more to hold. Like you make money on that at the buy. And then when you end up selling with all the equity because you're holding it for so long. Right. I mean, decades for more of a long term instead of short term. That's right. Yes, that's right. That's right. So. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's a great goal, but I think I think the first step for you, Zach, would be to get your money.

to own property yourself, right? You know, for your primary residence before going and investing and getting a rental home and all of that, because a lot of people do it the opposite way, but what you'll end up finding is you're not really going to make a, I mean, depending on the home, obviously in the situation, you're

When you do that kind of investing, you're not making a ton of money. I think a lot of people have in their mind. I'm sure you wrote the numbers. You're a smart guy. But I think a lot of people in their minds have this like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be making so much passive income. But by the time, especially if you go take a loan out, which a lot of people do for investment real estate, you're having to pay the mortgage. You're having to pay fees on top of that. You're having to pay everything it is to be a landlord for upkeep, all of it. And you end up

from a net to gross standpoint with not a ton of cash. It's not like a big cash cow to have all of this in a residential market, having one or two of these. So I just want you going in, eyes wide open, just knowing what you're getting yourself into. I just feel like I see stuff like this all the time on social media. And why has Wade done this? And I'm like, and

And it's not a bad thing. You know, I like diversification. I like having money in the market. I like having some real estate. Like, I think all of that's really good. But it's not this thing that's like, oh, my gosh, it's gonna be making me a ton of money. If anything, flips will. Like, that's where we've actually seen...

you know, from a short-term perspective, actually see some pretty great returns. Because you're not needing to wait on the market to appreciate because it's been a little stagnant the last few years. Yeah, and you can get some really crappy houses in Nashville and gut them if you know what you're doing. I mean, that's a whole other business that you have to work. It takes a lot more work. I have a buddy that's willing to help me out to a certain extent. And so, but

But then I would, I mean, as of right now, depending on even, even in like Antioch, I might have to take out a loan for the initial part, but then I could pay it off by the time I flip it. So that was the other. Right. So that's the, that's, that's the, that would be the wrong way to do it from Ramsey's standpoint, because that's what ends up, that's how Dave actually ended up going broke. Cause he borrowed on all these homes. And then you get stuck.

and you're having to sell it quickly because you're like, oh my gosh, you know, we have to, it's a flip. And so we're needing to make a profit and you end up selling it for not as much as you want. And then you end up not making the spread that you want. And then it ends up going backwards and it's not good. So cash is everything. And I would not count on this gravy train of day trading for too long. I would get out while you can when the getting's good, but just know this may not be a five-year career. So I'd find something you can sink your teeth into with how smart you are, my man. Thanks for the call.

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From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz this hour. The number to call is 888-825-5225. We are here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Sarah's going to kick us off in Jacksonville, Florida. What's going on, Sarah?

Hi, I'm calling more to see if I can get some help figuring out how to help my dad. He is widowed and he's been scammed a couple of times in the past five years. And it's a decent amount of money that he's lost from what he told me. He was self-employed in a pretty niche business and was recently pushed into retirement. The most recent scam... What do you mean pushed into retirement?

Um, the physical labor of his job was just far too much for him to sustain at his age. He's 65. Okay. Could he afford to retire? So the issue is, um...

He hadn't saved up a lot of retirement because growing up, my mom was very sick with a very rare cancer. And so a lot of the stuff that they were putting aside for their retirement ended up going toward her medical bills. So a lot of what it seems like he's lost from both of these scams were the only nest eggs he kind of had left. It's awful. What kind of scams were these?

The first, it sounds like it was a romance scam. That was my fear. Yeah, the other one was crypto. And to be really frank and really clear, I understand like...

and some of the stuff that he was trying to do. I think he also kind of got sucked into selling things on Amazon type scam because he is trying to take care of himself and he doesn't want to be a burden to my siblings and I. You know, he's made that really clear and I think the effort was noble, although misguided. Right. The intention was good, but the execution was terrible. He kept turning to the next scheme to get him out of whatever mess he was in. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, this man has never gambled a day in his life. And recently I saw two Powerball tickets sitting on the table at his house. And, you know, he's also never carried credit card balances. And now he's telling me like he can't afford a two hour trip, you know, down to see his mother for Mother's Day. So do you have any idea where he is financially at all, Sarah? Like, do you know what he does have?

um he's not letting a lot on to my siblings and i which is making that a little bit harder um i do know that the first scam was to the tune of 80 or 90 000 and he's only really he took a home equity line of credit out on his home to be able to pay that off um

And the next, the most recent crypto one, he's not giving our siblings a really clear answer on that. We've each heard him say different amounts. Is he asking for help? He's not. How did you find out about this? The very first one, and this happened, I want to say 2020, and I remember specifically because I knew where I was when he called me and told me what had happened. But the more recent one...

He also called but was really sheepish about letting on that there was a problem. Yeah. Sarah, are you only solution? Are you are you are you married? I am. Okay. How are you and your husband financially? Where are you guys at?

We're working on our baby steps. Yeah, that's great. We're working on paying off a little bit of credit card debt, and I think we have pretty minimal student loans because I work at a university and most of my tuition has been free. Thank God. And how old are you guys and how old is he?

Dad is in his late 60s, and we are in our late 30s. Okay. The only thing that I can think that would be the fastest way to help him out of it, which sort of puts my husband and I in a bit of a predicament, is we're currently living in a house that he owns that he bought with the intent to flip. COVID happened, and we moved into it because our housing got turned upside down. And we're paying him rent. Yeah.

But the sale of this house would knock out a good majority of the HELOC, but that doesn't take care of the unknown dollar amount of the rest of the debt that he's got going on. For sure. And has he approached you with that idea, or is it just you and your husband thinking through, like, gosh, this is an asset that dad has?

Well, yeah, we've intended to buy this house from him and getting it inspected and looking at a lot of the things. It's in pretty sore condition and the neighborhood is not the absolute best. So thinking of our future and our kids, we don't want to. Yeah, you may not want to. Yeah, we don't want to. So it's sort of a... Yeah, do you guys...

I'm just thinking out loud here. Do you know how fast you guys can get out of debt, consumer debt, you and your husband? We are aiming for December of this year. Okay.

Well, it'd be really, really great. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't know, Georgia, I want to know your thoughts on this, but there's a part of me, Sarah, that he's not, I kind of want to separate your dad's situation and you and your husband's, you kind of have to make those two different ideas in your head. And I think you and your husband need to make decisions on what's best for you guys. And it sounds like it's not a great house. You're probably not going to buy it long-term. Um,

You may even want to get out of it soon. I don't know. But whatever you guys need, you make decisions based on that. And then if he raises a flag and says, hey, as the landlord of this home, the owner of this home, I need the money. So I have to sell this asset. And you all just have to be ready if that's ever the case. But this whole idea of like, I feel like we need to do this for him when he's not asking, right? It starts to tangle us.

the two families and two financial situations where I would want to keep them separate. And your heart is so great, Zara. And I can only imagine. He's such a wonderful, he sounds like such a wonderful man. And you're like, how are you going down this road, dad? Like, you know better than this, right? It's almost so sad as a daughter to watch Zara

your dad make these decisions, right? And so you're just heartbroken for him. But also, it's hard because you can't help people who aren't asking for help either. So I understand that you guys see a way out for him to a degree of this home and everything. And that's very generous. And maybe that's in your spirit. And you're like, hey, we do want to offer this as an idea to him. And if you want to do that, that's great. But also, he's not raising his hand. Do you know what I mean to...

to do anything right now. So I almost in one way, keeping the two situations separate in your mind.

But knowing there's going to be a crossover eventually because it's his house, his name's on the deed. And unless he's willing and open, it's going to be hard to help him. It's like trying to help a brick wall. You're not going to get very far. So, I mean, if he's willing to freeze his credit, cut up the cards, remove all these accounts, just remove anything in the path that could cause him to cause further damage would be what I would do for my own dad. Yeah. And if he called the show, Sarah, and he was telling us this...

we probably would say sell the house and get your financial house. Right. I mean, that probably would be our advice to him, but he's not asking. Do you know what I'm like? So, so it is hard to give advice or thoughts to someone that,

I mean, he's probably feeling a lot of shame and guilt and doesn't want to drag you into it is my guess. Oh, he is. But if you can get him to open up and say, listen, dad, I'm not here to judge shame. We just want to help in any way we can right now. We can't do that financially, but here's what we can do. But in my conscience, I know this asset is here. And if you need to sell it, right, well, you could give it as an option, but give him the out. Yeah. Oh, it's awful, awful, awful.

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Joseph is in Sacramento up next. How can we help you, Joseph? Hey, how are we doing today? Wonderful. What's going on? I just had one quick question for you guys. Okay. I am 22 years old, and I am looking to either keep my credit card in order to maintain a high credit score or just get rid of it altogether. What has caused you to have this either-or scenario?

Well, I've been listening to you guys for the last couple of months and I went ahead and got rid of one of my credit cards. And then I went to apply for a house to rent and they required three lines of credit for three years. And it kind of made me want to keep a credit card for a little bit longer. They need three lines of credit in order to rent? Yes. This one place that we were looking at. Okay. One place. Have you tried, have you ever tried to say, hey, if I don't have a credit score, will I be able to rent? No.

Yeah, I tried to see if they could do some sort of manual underwriting, but I was able to get a cosigner for the place. Okay. And so where are you living now? I'm renting right now for pretty cheap, and I am moving to the place that I was talking about in about a month. Okay. So once you're there, are you asking, should I maintain it beyond that? Yes. And for what purpose at that point?

Just to maintain a high credit score and keep it for business purposes. As in to take out debt for a business?

Just to make transactions and to keep all my business expenses in one area. What I'm trying to get at is that credit score is just saying, hey, lenders, you can trust me with debt. That's all it does. So you can make all the business transactions you want without a credit score and without a credit card. So what I'm trying to poke at is to see what is the real reason you want to keep this credit score? Because I think it's beyond just making renting an apartment easy.

Right. Well, it might help me take out small debt and personal loans to help grow my business. Aha. Okay. This is where I go. I wholeheartedly disagree with that strategy. I believe that you can and should grow and run a business completely debt-free just using cash and business debit cards. Okay. So that's where we miss along. What business do you have, Joseph? It's landscaping. Okay. Good for you. That's great. And you've done it so far, all cash, no debt? Yeah.

Yes. Okay. So what is stopping you from growing at the speed of cash at this point? Do you make enough profit to reinvest in the business, buy new equipment, make new hires, all of that? Is that your goal? Yes, I do. Currently, I do not have any employees, and I've downsized my business to just me to keep things simple. What is your end goal with the business? Um...

My end goal is to grow and have employees, but finding the right employees can be challenging. Okay. So it's really a hiring problem. It's not a debt or credit score problem.

Yes, but I would like to have – because you guys say that having no credit history and score, it makes things a little bit more challenging to rent a car or get a house. Well, in what way? Like tell me – if you're going to get a car, we'd tell you to pay cash for a reasonably used car. If you're going to buy a piece of equipment, I would say the same.

Yes, and I've done that my whole life. But I was just thinking if I want to buy a house in the future, would it be easier for them to look at a credit score or do the manual underwriting? Easy is a debatable question. Yeah, I was going to say easy would be a number.

which is what caused so much of the disaster of people that keep a score and the computer basically saying, oh, okay, yeah, we'll give this person hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then they can't manage it. So easy isn't really probably the bar we're setting here. Americans have chosen the easy path, and they're in crippling debt, and the credit score is living rent-free in their head, and they're wondering why they aren't winning financially.

And so I've done manual underwriting when I got my mortgage and then paid it off. And it really I thought there was going to be more hoops to jump through. It was verification of income, verification of rental history and one line of trade like a utility bill or an insurance bill that was paid regularly. That plus a good down payment. They said, cool, that's it. OK, sweet.

So it's really not as difficult as people make it out to be. Our friends at Churchill Mortgage specialize in these types of no score loans and other companies do it too. They're not the only ones. And so I tell that to say, I wouldn't keep the credit score around just in case. I wouldn't keep it around for the house because what happens is, Joseph, you're going to go, well, I could buy that equipment now instead of saving up for it. And that will increase my business revenue by 2x. And then it doesn't. And now you have payments and you have all this equipment that's going down in value while you pay interest on it.

And it causes people to actually struggle in growing their business. Yeah, they end up having to get out of their business that they started in the first place because some of these moves that they make, they get too excited too fast and

make decisions on a hopeful future that doesn't always pan out. And so just limiting your risk and living with such autonomy, Joseph, over your business, over your own personal money, creates a lot of peace in your life. And I think for a lot of people, they overextend themselves because they're confident, they know what they're doing, or they're trying to work the system of the credit card game and the credit score, like all of this

And I'll just tell you, from a financial standpoint, you're going to win with wealth faster doing it the old-fashioned way of just living debt-free because you're going to have way more money freed up to invest and build wealth. And then also the other end of all of this, Joseph, that we talk a lot about on this show is just your mental state, like the idea of –

Having peace and like sleeping at night and not owing anyone anything like there's a level to that in your life that is huge that you can't put on a spreadsheet. Right. So there's an element of the holistic person that we look at when we talk about money and especially debt.

And debt robs so much from us, not just our income, but also our peace of mind. And so being able to be free from that and make your own decisions, and it's going to cause you to grow slower, Joseph, which is very frustrating. And I'll just say here at Ramsey, like, that's how we've done it.

And there's things like the way that this business is, you know, there's multiple, you know, up to 12 P&Ls within the Ramsey, you know, under the umbrella. You know, there'll be a certain P&L and we're trying to do a project. And it's like, nope, we got to wait on this. And you're like, oh, I wish we could just do it today. You know, like you, we want to be urgent with things, but it actually forces you to slow down and actually make wiser decisions long term from a business perspective, I believe. So, yeah, that's our sales pitch to you, Joseph. But you...

you're you're an adult so you get to make your own decisions with it so the question america wants answered joseph what are you going to do next well i think i might go ahead and just get rid of it um i still gotta kind of weigh a couple options in my head um but i appreciate your guys's time and some advice absolutely what is your business revenue i'm curious

So gross, I do $10,000 a month as a sole proprietor. Amazing. And what are you taking home out of that a year? What's your gross income on your tax return?

So currently, I am not a contractor yet. I have my contractor's test scheduled for this weekend. So right now, I'm a W-2 employee with my business partner. But I've been talking to CPAs, and I'm thinking I should be making $6,000 a month cash. Great. Good job, Joseph. That's an amazing income at your age. Well done. And it tells me you're doing a really good job with this business. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm doing what I can. Yeah, it's great. Well done. And good luck on the test this weekend. That's exciting. That's big. I love this. This was a great call because I think it points out the bigger picture, which is when you stop caring about your credit score, what you're really saying is I'm done with debt. It's not an option anymore. And therefore, what am I going to do next? Well, I'm going to do what grandma used to do and just save up and pay for things in cash. And if I didn't have the cash, I wouldn't do it. Yes.

And you know what? That simple philosophy, George, would save people so much pain. Like we talked to so many people on this show and maybe you're listening or watching right now and it's just like they're just carrying this weight of debt. And when you take out the debt, life is great. And there's probably a lot of people that are like, I wish I was Joseph and I was debt free. Don't Joseph, don't go. Don't buy a zero turn mower with 0% financing. Don't get into it.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Is it an easier life? It's easier to live with peace and debt freedom. Is it harder to save up and pay for things in cash? Absolutely. But I'll take that every day.

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at ramseysolutions.com slash giveaway. That's ramseysolutions.com slash giveaway. All right, George, you don't know this, but there's an anniversary today. Whose? It's not yours. No, it's not mine. It's actually a milestone in our friendship anniversary that happened today three years ago. Okay, think, think, think, think. What happened three years ago?

Do you want to tell them, James? The year was 2020. I'll give you a hint. It made a lot of people pretty mad at you. Wait, has it been that long since horse skating? Yes! It was three years ago today. And we're hosting together. Can you believe that? That's really special. And shout out to Kate. Katie.

Katie and her horse. Katie. Started all of this three years ago. Katie called, for those of you that don't know, a lot of people do know this because it was a very popular call. Not in a good way, popular. You make it sound, it was infamous, I think is the right word. Katie called. She's a horse girl. We all know about horse girls, right? They're very obsessive about their horses. They love their horses and their horses, they will keep their horses.

Even if it doesn't make financial sense. Even if it causes them financial ruin. So poor Katie was really not in a good spot. And we're wrapping up the call. The music's coming on. The segment's ending. And George is like, Katie, you got to sell your horse. You got to sell the horse. That horse doesn't even know your name, Katie. Sell the horse. And I was...

Not a great impression of me, but... Flabbergasted. Rachel's face was the best part. I was like, you can't say... Because you represented what everyone was feeling in America. Yeah.

The horse doesn't even know your name. And I thought, George Campbell. Well, to be fair, I said, Katie, I know this. Would you be willing to sell the horse? It was worth like $20,000, she told me. And she said, well, I've had it for 11 years and it's like family. I said, Katie, the horse doesn't even know your name. Sell the... And then we go to break. And so we had to come back and do some damage control. I know. We ended up becoming friends with Katie. She was very sweet. She actually ended up coming to a live event.

In Indiana. We got to meet her in person. Anyways, it's an infamous call. And a lot of the people that follow the show closely, they know the call well. And they talk about George telling her to sell the horse. Third anniversary of Horsegate. Didn't think that was something that was... Horsegate happened three years ago. So anyways, thought I'd bring that up to you. I had not realized over a thousand days had gone by.

I need a sign. Like, a thousand days has gone by since George was super mean. Super mean to Katie. Yeah. Poor Katie. I hope she's debt free by now. We've got to check in with her. Where are they now? We should. I'll send her a message and she'll give me an update. But goodness gracious, thank you for that. Shall we get to the news of the day? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Yeah. This is a recent article from Yahoo. Liam Payne of One Direction died without a will, leaving a $32 million estate.

Wow. Okay, so we've heard about celebrities dying without a will. Prince famously died without a will. And now his former partner, Cheryl Tweedy, who's also the mother of a son, has been named one of the administrators of this estate. Not a princess of Liam's. Yes. Yeah. Good point to make.

So along with Cheryl, there's also a music industry lawyer, Richard Mark Bray, was named as another administrator. And so now they've got to deal with this estate over in England and Wales and deal with the laws of the state and sit in courtrooms trying to figure out how to do this, all because Liam didn't have a will in place stating, here's the beneficiaries, here's the wishes, here's the

All of the things that go along with making a will. And it's really sad, especially, you know, he was 31. I know. He was so young. And he died from this tragic accident in Buenos Aires. Yeah. Oh, it's a good reminder to everyone out there, whether you have $32 million or $32 to your name, you need a will. Yes. Wills are not for a certain level of wealth. No, no. And yeah, get a state-specific will. They're inexpensive. It takes a little bit of time, but just...

fill it out and talk about it. And it is really sad, George. I just feel like more and more we hear stories. And even in my own, you know, with my own personal friends, you know, there'll be family members that are in accidents or things and like,

It's hard questions to kind of figure out, even from a health standpoint with someone, right? If they are in a condition. Healthcare power of attorney. Yeah, all of that. So doing all of that is such a gift, like beforehand, before something happens, that is such a gift to your family. It really is because the decisions are made. They're not having to sit and battle in court and pick through everything and think through everything like,

It's all laid out. It's all there. And it's just, it is the responsible thing. It's part of being an adult and taking care of it. So life insurance, a will, like all of these things are very, very important. It's not a baby step. It's a get the will done today. And so this is one of those areas as well where people think it's too heavy to deal with. Like, I don't want to have these heavy questions, heavy conversations. So what I'll do is leave it for my grieving family to deal with on top of the loss. They now have to deal with this.

And so it's really important to get done. And I did it online. We have a great partner, Mama Bear Legal Forms. You can head to RamseySolutions.com slash will. And there's no lawyer fees, no fancy offices. You can just knock it out all online with attorneys that are built by attorneys, but without the price tag. So it's super inexpensive. It'll take you a little bit of time to answer these questions, but then it spits out the document.

It's pretty fast. And you have it in place. Yep. So great reminder to everyone out there, get this done today. Let this be the wake-up call. Okay, moving on to Anthony in Chicago. Anthony, welcome to The Ramsey Show. How can we help? My question for you guys is how do I talk to my alpha father about being overworked and undercompensated in our community?

commercial family business that consists of me, my mother, and my younger brother. Wow. What kind of business is it? This is a child care business. And what's your role? Sometimes I struggle with even that question. I know I do pretty much... Everything? Everything. The teacher, manager role, accounting work, maintenance. And what do you get paid?

Right now I'm getting paid $28 an hour a year. We have a pretty good center. Pretty much maxed out. I've been working here. I really gave my whole entire life to this, and I feel as if I'm living my parents' life and not really fulfilling anything in my life. I have a child even of my own now. Are you done with this business? Would you want to just go do something else?

Or do you want to stay in the business, but you feel like you should have more ownership and more compensation? I definitely feel like I should have more ownership and compensation. And I've been in it so long that I feel like it'd be better for me to stay in it. But at the rate of how my peace and how it's affecting my mental health,

It's like I'm at a wit's end. I don't really know what to do. That's kind of what I'm calling you guys. Yeah. Are you at the end of your rope because of the family dynamics are exhausting, the hours you're working are exhausting, the type of work you're doing is exhausting? What's creating that gap for you? It's really the type of work that I'm doing on top of the respect.

Oh, okay. Yeah, when you started the call by saying my alpha dad, what does the alpha term mean here? Is it just he runs the show, he tells us what to do, and we're not going to talk back and make any tweaks? He's not there to listen to us? Yeah, pretty much that. Okay. I mean, that's a sign of just poor leadership. If it wasn't your dad, you would say, man, this is a toxic boss. Man, literally, if it wasn't, I feel like if...

Me and my brother weren't working. I don't understand how I would. So here's my takeaway, Anthony. If it robs you of your peace, it's not worth the paycheck. It's that simple. I think we need to have a conversation with dad and say, you're done. Because he's not going to change. It sounds like he's made that clear. Right. And no amount of money is going to make this better. Yeah, how old are you, Anthony? 33 years old. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I...

I would sit down probably with him, which would be very scary. It sounds like it's not going to be a fun conversation. No, it won't be. But I think as a man, um, for you to say, um,

You know, I don't know what has to change for you, Anthony, for you to be in a better spot. And I don't know if that's, hey, I this is what I need in this work environment for me to stay. Or if there's nothing you need and you really just don't even want to stay, then I would give I would give a notice and give a hefty notice to say, hey, I'll work another 90 days here. So I don't leave you guys in a pinch.

But my my time here is done. But I think giving some of that having some of those conversations sooner than later is very respectful because it is a family business and you want to leave really, really well. But unless there's some conversation about this is what has to change for me to stay. That's one conversation or Anthony, if you're thinking, I mean, there's nothing that would change. So I want to stay here.

then I would have the conversation at the exit, which is so hard. That's what makes family business so sticky is it's so intertwined, and it sometimes can hurt the relationship. These days, the Internet is chock full of so-called investing advice from random goobs with zero qualifications. Listen, folks, you deserve guidance from someone who knows what the flip they're talking about. That's why I recommend the SmartVestor program.

SmartVestors can help you find a professional financial advisor who can teach you to make your own best decisions with your own money. Get connected at RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor. Again, RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor. Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor.

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, you're wondering where your money's going, your first step is getting on a budget. And our team is hosting a free budgeting training this month where you'll learn step-by-step how to make and stick to a budget using EveryDollar. Plus, you'll get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q&A. So go sign up. Spots are limited and it's completely free. Go to EveryDollar.com slash webinar. Adam is in Atlanta up next. What's going on, Adam?

Hi there, how are you doing? Great. How can we help? Great. Yeah, so I'm calling. I am a disabled veteran. I have a spinal cord injury and a debilitating rare disease. So sorry. Because of this, I have a one... Oh, appreciate it. I have a one-year-old and a wife, and I want to build wealth for our family. So I'm calling to ask for advice on how I could do that with a debilitating condition. Okay.

Oh, my gosh, Adam, I guess is the debilitating condition. What like physically, are you able to sit at a desk? Are you able to do any kind of work at all? That's not physical? Or is it is that almost nearly impossible? Sure.

I can explain as best I can. So it's a rare disease that most similar to multiple sclerosis. Oh, wow. I cannot sit up straight in a chair for over five minutes before I'm in debilitating pain throughout my entire spine. I wake up with migraines, nausea, nerve pain. I'm in bed a lot. Wow. Oh.

Oh, I'm so sorry. Do you have disability? I do. I got injured. You know, I'm only 32. So I got injured and got disability. I didn't have a lot of work experience dealing with that. So it's I get about 852 a month from disability. And that's is there any other income coming in?

Yeah. So I do get a VA disability. Um, I make, let me pull that up. I over 5,000 from that 5,600. So that's been very helpful. Um, and, and then, and then my wife, uh, she is a part-time film editor and also gets paid as my caregiver. So we've been incredibly blessed with that. Okay. And what does she make a month?

She makes, I would say, a month over $5,000. Okay. So you guys are around that. $11,000? Yeah, around $11,000. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. And the only other issue I have is so because this is a very rare disease, doctors don't know how to treat me. And I've had to go outside of the conditional, you know, regular medicine. And I pay around 15 to 20 grand a month. I mean, I'm sorry, a year just on my own medical treatment. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's going to be a big part of your budget every month is just making sure that you set aside that amount.

to cover those things. So that'll be an ongoing cost. Okay. And your question is, how can I build wealth?

Yeah. And so, and there's one more thing to explain. Again, another blessing of ours is I've been in, I got into the Tunnels to Towers program as a disabled veteran, and they bought us land and are building us a property. So we don't have to buy our own property, which is, God's been, even though I'm very sick, God's been blessing us incredibly. Wow. Yeah, that's incredible. There's some upside. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, no, I was going to say, yeah, there's a lot of upside to this for you guys, to your point, and being in such a tragic situation. Yeah, well, the good thing is, is your age, number one, is that you guys are still young. I mean, you have a lot of years to be investing in.

and building wealth through that. And it may, you know, look different, you know, it may be one of those things, unless your wife chooses, you know, to go more full time or chooses a different career path and starts making more money that you guys would probably have a somewhat consistent income for a while, right? I mean, nothing really is probably going to change majorly unless I'm missing something. And I guess she would be the only factor that if she decided to change something, you know, that could cause an increase in income. But

But even for that and even with your medical, the fact that you could, I mean, if you guys just even invested, I know you pulled up the calculator, George, but just, you know, even $1,000 a month or whatever it looks like, I mean, that does build wealth long term. Yeah. We always say that your greatest wealth building tool is your income. And even though you're not working, you guys have a great income. And so that's the key is how much of that can we live off of versus invest. And so do you guys have any debt right now?

No, we don't. Great. And you have an emergency fund saved? Yeah, $40,000. Amazing. So, you know, I'm crunching numbers here. What's that? I was going to say, we also have another $20,000 that we've saved just for real estate, or we're just not sure. Yeah, I mean, you can max out two Roth IRAs. Now, VA disability income is an earned income, but because your wife has earned income, you can invest up to that amount. Right.

So the max is $7,000 in both of those Roth IRAs, and you can do the spousal Roth IRA. So you could do that and max out at $14,000 for the year to kind of kickstart this. Do you guys have anything saved in retirement so far? Yeah, actually. So we're in Vanguard, and we have a personal advisor. We have about $150,000 in assets in Vanguard. Just a taxable brokerage account, non-retirement? Yeah.

I have Roth, traditional, and just a brokerage account for my wife and I. Great. Well, I mean, I can just show you with some numbers and stats what will happen. If you guys are 32, you've got $150,000 saved already. And let's say you invest $1,500 a month. That's less than 15% of your income from what you shared. But let's say you invested $1,500 total per month. At a 10% rate of return, from 32 to 62, you'd have over $6 million. Oh, wow. And even more conservatively, 8%, still $3.8 million by 62%.

Oh, okay. So really, the key is you guys are building these habits now, just keep it up, be consistent, keep putting money into the market when the market's down, when the market's up, when you have a good month, a bad month, just keep investing no matter what. And you're going to be just fine as far as the wealth goes.

So that'll allow you to focus on Adam and focus on, you know, raising your one-year-old and being present for your wife. And that's really the beauty of building wealth. It's not to just stack up cash. It's to create that impact, to leave a legacy, and to stop letting money problems live in your head red free. Yeah, and with that, Adam, I think that does give you guys some cushion, especially with your health stuff that, you know, if you look up in two years and there's some treatment, you know, that costs a lot, you guys could pause it for a bit if you needed some extra cash, right, to...

to go and get that done. So it gives you a lot of margin and flexibility. But I think that consistency of investing for you guys is going to be your key. That's what's going to cause you guys to build wealth long term. But gosh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry about all the health stuff you guys are going through. I hope and pray that there's just health care and tech advancements in the future. And so over the next few years and decades, you know, maybe there will be a treatment that can get you back to more mobility and less pain.

Yeah, I'm hoping so. I'm always hopeful. But otherwise, I just keep pushing forward. Yeah, well, thank you for your service, Adam. Yeah, absolutely. What a sacrifice. Yeah, but you and your family, you guys sound incredible. And that said, I think it's...

You know, it's not exciting, right? We've had some, like, calls about crypto and, like, they ended up being scams and people lose money. There's all these, like, shiny things out there. Could make more. Yeah, all this stuff. But it's like, man, just investing $1,500 a month, what that could get you from $3,200 to $6,200. Yeah, I mean, it's wild. That's pretty crazy. This is compound growth at its finest. Because if you look at the contributions of this, it's a little over half a million contributed over those 30 years. Wow.

The growth alone was 3.2 million. It's crazy. So when people go, well, I can't save a million dollars, I'm going, you don't have to save a million dollars. You need to kickstart the compound growth process where your money makes more money. And it starts when you're young and you just keep it going and keep it going. So what we found is most people's retirement accounts, 80 to 90% of the balance is compound growth. Only 10 to 20% was the money they put into it.

So that's very encouraging for me, and it should be for you, that you don't need to make a bajillion dollars. You don't need to put away a million dollars. You need to put away money now, today, tomorrow, whatever you have, whatever you can. Make it a little until you can do more, and that's going to build wealth over time. Yeah, that's right. And we always talk about...

investing 15% of your income into retirement. That's what this is. So that 15% is huge. And then once you pay off your home and you guys are on baby step seven, that's when you were able to up a lot of this too. Yeah, is that you can keep continuing to build that wealth, which is amazing. So thank you, Adam, for the call. Appreciate that. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. ♪

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