Debt Can’t Be Your Normal Anymore
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Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney. We're taking calls about your life, your money, your mental health, all of it. You can get involved. The number is 888-825-5225. It'll get you on the line. We've got Nicole who's in Waco, Texas. Nicole, how can we help today? Hi.

I am calling. I have a son who is almost 24 years of age, and I'm not sure how to help him anymore. He has had a drug addiction since the age of 18. He's been in rehab, out of rehab, and he is living on his own now and has an apartment, but recently was put in the hospital for mental help and

I just don't know how to help him because I was able to get him some help, but then he quits the program. And I know financially he needs money for rent, but I've helped him multiple times with rent and I don't feel like I should continue doing that. I just want some advice on how to help him. Yeah, that's, I mean, unfortunately, I've had this conversation with too many parents over the years of young men and women just that age. And there's that balance between

There's a real chance he ends up on the street and there's a real chance that he never learns to stand up on his own two feet. And so at the same time, the greatest gift is letting him learn from some of these consequences. And yet when you've struggled with addiction for seven years, some of those consequences may be catastrophic, right? And that's just a scary place for a parent to find themselves. Yeah.

It really is. He's one of six. He's the youngest of six kids, and none of my other kids have this issue. And he grew up in a good home, but he's made some very poor choices from the time he was 18 till now, and they are becoming very catastrophic. Yeah. So first thing I want to do is I want to free you from what you're carrying around. How about that? Okay? Okay.

Yes, that'd be good. You've got to set down the comparison. He's not like my other five. I must have messed up with this one. Because what it does is it ends up making him an object and he's just not your son. And let's bring him back to being your son, okay? Right. And his choices at this point may or may not, who knows, but trying to reverse engineer how we got here isn't the time right now. Right now is the time we want to keep him alive.

I agree with you. I'm not just going to put money into a bottomless pit because the way he's going to get help from this, he's going to continue to stay in rehab. He's going to work these programs and he's going to learn to begin very gently carrying the weight of the bar that is life. And that's how his body will learn that he can get stronger.

Yes. He just, you know, he was, he just was admitted to, uh, cause he attempted suicide. And so he was, he was admitted to a inpatient hospital where he got some help for a week. And when I had arranged when he came out to do a 10 week outpatient program where he could continue to work and get help, the professional help he needs. And, um, he did it for one week and he's already quit. Yeah. Where's he going?

He was going to a... No, no, not the place, but when he quit, where did he go home to? He went home to his apartment. Okay. Is there a possibility, and I don't know the nature of his addiction and all the ins and outs like you do, is there an opportunity for you to say, I'm no longer funding this, you can stay here, or you can stay in rehab, that's it?

I asked him. I said, well, if you're going to quit because he thought it was stupid and – Sure. What it is is they're calling him to accountability and he doesn't really want the accountability. But here's the thing. Here's what you have to acknowledge, and this is so scary to acknowledge as a parent who loves her kid. He knows he doesn't have to because he has a paid-for apartment that he's going to walk out the door and go to. He knows that. Right. And –

And there's some debate in the literature and some back and forth mumbo jumbo, but one of the cornerstones of addiction is people who are struggling with connected relationships with safe people, right? And that's where – and nobody wants to move home with mom. And I don't want someone who is struggling with addiction that is going to blow up your family living at home either. So only you know the nature of it, right? Right.

But if he knows, man, I can just walk out this door, go back to my apartment. All my bills are paid. I can go use, I can just sleep and get, get back to my life. This sounds nuts, but he'd be crazy to not do that.

Yes, and I did tell him that I would no longer help fund that. I've helped him in the past, but I could not. If he wasn't going to stay committed to a program to get him the necessary professional help he needed, I no longer could help fund him. I love him, but I won't fund if he comes up short on his rent or if he doesn't have groceries or if he can't pay his utility bill. Okay.

I think that's an important part of his recovery, but I hesitate to tell you that's what you need to do right this second because, I mean, this is a seven or eight minute phone call, but I think that's where you're at. And the challenge as a parent you're going to have is never letting him, and this might happen. I've recommended parents in the past for particular situations, write your kid a letter and send it to them every week.

And they may throw it up. They may throw it away. They may rip it up or they may just throw it on the floor somewhere. But one night they're going to look and see all those letters. They're not going to be able to tell themselves the story that my parents don't care.

And yet that only works if they have a place where you can even mail it to, right? Right. Or every week I want you to come over for Sunday lunch. You can't come over if you're using, but I want you here. I'm not going to text you. I'm not going to text you. I love you. I'm not going to text you a Bible verse. I'm going to call you. You don't have to answer, but every day or every other day or every week, you're going to see my name pop up on your thing because I love you and I care about you.

Right. And I can no longer in good conscience keep going into the weight room and taking all the weight off the bar and wondering why you're not getting any stronger. Right. Right. And you have to live with the understanding that he's going to go live on somebody's couch, the exact people he doesn't need to be around. Yeah. I think my greatest fear is that he's going to commit suicide. Yeah.

And if you're at that point, then I think you sit down with the social worker at the last rehab place and say, I want to see if we can commit him involuntarily because he is a demonstrated harm to self. And they may not do that. The threshold for that type of commitment is very, very high because you're taking away somebody's civil rights, right? But if I can show you, he is...

repeatedly said he's going to die by suicide and then I'm gonna do everything I can on that front yes and and that's what I you know I because I feel like I'm the only one in our family who stays connected because everybody else is kind of where's dad in this dad is we divorced a couple years ago after 32 years of marriage and

He's a traveling minister, and he's no longer in the area. Well, here's another thing. That youngest son of yours needs his dad to show up at his front door and say, I love you, and give him a hug, and say, I'll walk with you in this next chapter. But I agree with you. I think the days of just funding this thing, hoping it gets better, you've proven that doesn't work. And so work with the social worker at the hospital to come up with a plan for what's next. But I think that's the right move.

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All right, let's get right back into it. We're going to the phone lines where we have Lisa in Grand Rapids, Michigan. What's up, Lisa?

Good afternoon, John and Jane. First, I have to say, John, as a follow-up therapist, I love you. You're amazing. Well, thank you. That makes me feel good. I appreciate that. You're welcome. Here's my question. Earlier this year, my uncle died and has left me a significant amount of money. My financial advisor is telling me that I shouldn't pay off my debt, that that's a bad idea, and I'm not going to pay off my debt.

I know from following Dave's sense about 2001 or 2002 that he says, yes, pay off your debt. Mine is student loan debt from 2013, and with the amount of money I received last week, and there's a lot more money still to come, I could pay off this debt. How much is the inheritance? Around $500,000 to $600,000. Okay, and how much debt do you have?

How is it being distributed? Are you at one point going to get a lump sum or is it always going to be kind of parceled out over time?

Because we have properties and other things as they sell, it's sounding like we're getting checks as we go. Okay. So I just got a six-figure check last week. Okay. And what was the six figures? $103,000. Okay. And so you're saying you only have $24,000 left of the debt. So at that point, you already went against the financial advisor's advice. Yeah. And how do you feel? I feel right.

To go against his advice? Yeah. Like you paid off the debt. How do you feel having done that? I felt like it was a great thing to do. Okay. Okay, I want to play therapist with you for a second, even though I'm not a therapist. I'm a faker on the radio. What in the world is going on inside your chest that you doubt you so much? Nothing.

In all honesty, in life, I've always been questioned when I make decisions about anything with my parents. And I've often been told that I'm wrong or that it's a bad decision or that I didn't research it enough. How old are you now? Mid-50s. Okay. Can we just...

could we just decide just me, you, Jade, and I don't know, a couple million people listening that for the first time we're done listening to those old voices that said, you don't know what you're talking about. Could we be done there? I try. I know. I know. And the only way, and you know, this as a therapist, the only way to truly get there is to practice it. Right. Right. So who do you owe money to now in the world? Um,

I just do the loans. Oh, so you haven't paid him yet. You're thinking about paying him, but you haven't written that check yet? She paid all but $24,000. All but $24,000. Okay. And that's the only debt I have. Clear it today. Dude, what would that feel like to be like, go into therapy tomorrow and you don't owe anybody anything? Yeah. And just a reminder. Go ahead. You go. You go.

I was going to say, when I'd been thinking about it, I'd been excited. I'd been excited at the idea of my friend's co-op team since like 2001 or 2002. And to know that I would finally be debt-free is a huge deal to me. And then to be able to get the rest of this money and then start to do some things in life that I haven't been able to do, like travel. For sure. Yes. Yes. This is the whole point of why we do what we do at this moment.

Okay. Anyone who says, you know what? You shouldn't be free. You should just let me have your money because I can get a small percentage off the earnings that I'm going to invest in one of my special products. It also gives me a kickback because clearly I'm in this job for me, not for you.

And John just said what I was about to remind you of the fact that he, he makes a commission off of anything that you invest. So for him, yeah, I'm not saying he's a bad guy or like investors are bad. I'm not saying that, but there is a vested interest there for you to invest larger sums of money. And just don't forget that. And don't forget that he works for you for crying out loud. You don't work for him. So at the end of the day, guess who gets to make the decision? Yes, ma'am.

Okay. And if you have a decision to make and it lights you up like a Christmas tree right now, and it's not like something morally questionable. Right. You're 50 plus years old. Those days of you taking that spark inside and that joy and being like, hold on, I got to put that flame out because one time or because my dad always said, or because my mom, dude, they don't get a vote anymore. No more. And

And by the way, your uncle thought enough of you to leave you half a million dollars. So if nobody else, if you don't think I have any other data in the world to say I'm trustworthy, your uncle sure thought you were half a million dollars trustworthy, which is pretty amazing too. Jade, how often, I don't want to gender this, but it's majority women that I hear experience that.

this sense of, hey, you're probably wrong. Listen, you let me make this decision for you. In fact, usually with men, it's the opposite. It's like, hey, listen to other people before you go bull charging into something. But I hear this, man, and I guess it breaks my heart. You have a woman who just got this, who's been dreaming of this moment, feels so good, and then she goes and talks to someone who's supposed to be

Yeah. A supporter and says, actually, you're stupid. You should do this. I think probably even... I think what you're saying is accurate, but I think even more it boils down to just women tend to put everybody else first and what everybody else want first. Not all women. That's not... I'm not trying to generalize the whole population, but it tends to be something that we struggle with. And I think she had this idea of what she wanted to do. Then she goes and talks to old boy and old boy is like, no, I want to do this. And so it's easy to just surrender your will and be like, well, if they want to do that and...

that people pleasing of like, ah, just make them happy. That makes sense. You know, and kind of putting your own thoughts secondary and what your own desires secondary, man, that's got to stop today. Yeah. Um, get online, go to Ramsey solutions.com and check out our smart investors.

And fire this person. In fact, don't even fire them. Just don't ever go back or call them back. And if they are your registered financial advisor, get online and put in your zip code. And we're going to send you a couple of folks in your area that you are. I want you to interview them. And I want you to get that same feeling in your chest. Like I can trust this person. This person is teaching me, not mocking me. This person is walking alongside me. And yeah,

Jade, I've had this experience with Churchill. I've had this experience with Smart Mr. Pro. I've had this experience with Xander. When I want to do a thing and they say...

I will do that thing. But actually, this is in your best interest. And you can make, I can make more money here. But this is the right thing for what you told me your goals are. And that is to owe nobody anything. And that's what you want in one of these advisors who's walking alongside you. 100%. Yeah, you want them to explain their point of view. You want to be heard on your point of view. But ultimately, you're the one that gets to make the decision. And so as long as you feel like they're honoring your choices and trying to feed that into the plan, that's what you want.

And then also acknowledging at some points they're going to know more than you. Like, do you know what I mean? Like there is that part of it. But in this case, this was, this was a choice that didn't really have much penalty. Do you know what I'm saying? Like she could have not paid off the debt and been fine and she could pay it off the debt and been fine, but it was her wishes to pay off the debt. That's not going to light anything on fire. So he should have been like, yeah, 100%. Well, you're talking 25,000 bucks against half a million dollars. That's right. That's right. Good grief. Lisa, pay this off today.

And call us back ASAP and we will scream I'm debt free right here on the show. We're proud of you, Lisa. Congratulations. All right, John, let's let's take a quick question from the Ramsey Network app. It says, is your recommended percentage to pay for rent the same as it is for mortgage?

So we say, yeah, okay. Yeah. So we say that your mortgage payment shouldn't be any more than 25% of your take home pay. And I'd say that goes along with rent as well, because it's not a thing about renting or buying. It's the idea of what portion of your budget is it taking up?

and how much is then left in margin for you to do the other things like pay your other bills and get ahead on debt and just live a life without being tight. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, it's the same thing. It has nothing to do with whether or not you're renting or buying. It has to do with you having the right ratios of money going to the right thing. So 25% is what you're looking for every time. Because when it creeps above that, that's when people start calling into the show, talking to you and I. You know, there's a method to the madness, people.

We'll be right back.

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Straight to the phone lines we go where there's Michael in Naples, Florida. What's going on, Michael? Hey, Jade. Nice talking to you. So I've been a fan of your show for the last couple years. I enjoy the stories. I'm not a baby subs person myself, but I am a self-made millionaire, multimillionaire. Wow. Coming from a poor person to a millionaire.

I feel like I'm in a pretty good position. But my question is this. As a fan of your program, I'm intrigued by the idea of Baby Step 7, which is to give generously. And I've never heard that Baby Step discussed in any kind of detail on your show. So I was wondering if you guys could go into the theory behind that.

Yeah, I love this question. And you're right. We do spend a lot of time talking about getting out of debt or investing or saving. And we don't

generally get to spend as much time on the Baby Step 7 topic, which is great. So, I mean, I can tackle it from kind of my way of thinking, and I'm sure John has a take on it as well. I think that giving is probably one of the most important things that you can do with money, because at the end of the day, money is very much linked to our heart. And I think that if we can

control our heart and control our money by letting money be something that flows freely in and flows freely out. It's really shows a level of self-control in our life. I think money is one of those things that it's,

it's amoral, but if you don't control it right, it can be very powerful, right? And so it's one of those things that by giving, we're really making sure that we're keeping money in its rightful place. We're able to say, hey, this is not mine. I'm not greedy. I'm a person who can let it go out and let it come in. And my heart is okay with both of those actions. And then I kind

kind of think of like, this is the way I was taught when I was a kid. And I think it's so true. Like if you hold money with an open hand, there's the space for it to leave and there's the space for it to come in. Whereas if money comes into that hand and you close it, nothing can get out and nothing can get in. And it's the same way with your heart. And so I

And so I believe that generosity is kind of the crux of so much of what we believe. And at the end of the day, every good and perfect gift comes from above. So what we have, if we have it and it's good, it's from God. And so we have to have that generosity.

we have to have the ability to let him do what he wants to with those gifts. We just are the manager of those gifts. We're the steward of those gifts. And so if he says, hey, I want you to take some of that and put it towards this thing over here, then we have to be willing to do that. And so always having an open heart to do those things. That's kind of my point of view, John, what you got to say on the matter. Yeah, man, Michael, I think this is a great question. Tell me where it comes from for you.

Well, as I said, I'm a fan of the program and became a fan during COVID. And I just love the stories. And, you know, I understand the mechanics of the baby steps. I mean, I became a self-made multimillionaire, not through the baby steps, because Dave Ramsey wasn't a thing when I was growing up or when I'm...

was working. I just had my own way of doing it, which is different from the baby steps. And the step seven is always kind of, well, you know, what is this about? Because is it a motivational factor? You know, it feels so great to give that, you know, it helps you get there.

Is that it? You know, just, and I've never heard anybody call in with this question before. Your call, I mean, your question, dude, I would high five you if we were sitting here together. I think it's a great under asked question. What does the status, you said get there. In your mind, where is there? I'm not sure I understand your question. Is, is, is.

Getting there, this idea of being a multimillionaire, especially as someone as a self-proclaimed former poor person, right? Yeah. What does being a multimillionaire now, what does that mean to you?

Well, it means not having to work. I retired at age 56. And I did it right on my own schedule using basic principles of math. So I think it's more...

you know, not having to worry about different factors affecting basic living because when you're poor, that's what you're concerned about, you know, getting by. Absolutely. When you pay the bills. And so there's a sense. That was my goal. There's a math problem and you've solved that math problem, right? Right. I mean, absent of one of those caustic Reddit calamities, right, that are just fun to go down YouTube rabbit holes about, you're good.

Right. You're going to be good and you're going to be fine. For me, I echo everything Jade said. For me, generosity is it's really this idea of picking my eyes out of my own belly button. Right. Out of my own survival and recognizing this. It's a posture on how I interact with the world, which is.

I may have driven to work and worked my butt off and gone, like for my own story, I worked a ton of grad school. I grew up in the home of a cop and a minister. Like I worked really hard, got a bunch of education, worked a lot of 20 hour days for years to get X, Y, and Z. And generosity is this idea of me taking my eyes out of my belly button and looking up and saying, I drove to work on roads other people paved.

I sat in classrooms at the feet of other people who went and learned a whole bunch of stuff. I use laptops that nobody built. And by the way, there are people in my community that may don't, maybe don't have access to those things and in the same way. And I can now be a link, a bridge towards them. And some of that access with that access access is basic food, but that access is educational opportunities where that access is, um, helping somebody fill in the blank and,

But it is a posture, and I always want to answer this question. I'm a millionaire. I'm a baby steps millionaire. I'm a multimillionaire, and my question is always going to be the same. For what? For what? And if it isn't to make sure I can be the best steward of this money, that I can take care of myself, I can anchor in so that now I can help everyone around me,

So that I can make my community better. I can help people who are struggling. I can help people be a part of some of those same things that I was a benefactor of. It's just a posture. And I go back to that simple thing that Jade mentioned, and I love it, which is, and I got this actually from Dave. Dave has a fascination. He loves to have dinner or lunch with billionaires, right? He's a multi, multi, multimillionaire. Dave's not a billionaire. He loves sitting down with his folks. And he said, except for one thing.

Every billionaire he sat with is a person of high integrity with real open hands. And this idea of generosity is not just the exchange of dollars. It's the exchange of ideas. It's the exchange of compassion. It's the exchange of love and connection. It's all these things that we say woo-woo and you don't show up on a spreadsheet, but have to do with a life well-lived.

So I'll ask you man. You've accumulated millions and millions of dollars and you did it quote-unquote your way use a spreadsheet you just climbed and scratched and clawed and Now you're 56 60. I don't hold you are now, but you've retired You're not working anymore and the question I'll ask you after you've solved for safety like for what what's all this money gonna be for? Yeah, well

I mean, number one is you don't know what's coming. I mean, I think, you know, just history provides us a good idea, but it's mainly, you know, for self-preservation and for preservation of my family, which is a lot. How many family members do you have? Do you have wife, kids? Do you have family? Like, tell me about it. I have no kids. Okay.

Anyway, this goes back. I mean, I grew up in a large family with eight kids. So that will teach you a lot. Yeah, of course. There's only one pancake left and it's a war. Right.

But my father, he always said, you know, you're here for one purpose, which is to serve. And I always thought that's crazy because who's going to serve me? You know, nobody else served me over the course of my life. And I'm 65 years old. Can I tell you something? Yeah. And I want you just to internalize this. And we only have a second. I wish I could talk to you for an hour because you're the kind of guy I love to just have a drink with your line of thinking.

is still rooted in poverty. It's a mindset of what about the next minute and the next minute after that? And I want you to do the math and play it out. If there's a nuclear calamity, your dollars in the account aren't going to save you. I want you to back up and exhale and say, what if I practice serving one person? And then I want you to see how that feels and be about generosity.

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All right. We got David. He's in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. What's going on, David? How can we help today? Hi, guys. I'm calling in because I am just at my wit's end and I need help. For the past couple of years, I had a really good paying job that I ended up leaving in January of this year to move back. I moved from Nebraska to Pennsylvania to be with family.

And in these past six months, leaving that good job, I tried to get another job, and that didn't work out. That lasted two months. And then I finally got hired earlier this month, and in two weeks, they let me go. Oh, no. And my debt has been piling up. I have a credit card that called and said, you owe $2,000 minimum payment, and we're closing your account in 40 days. And I have no way to pay it because I'm out of work. Mm-hmm.

Well, and I'm just calling because I don't I don't know what to do. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's frustrating. I can I can tell it's it's like a double whammy. There's the job thing. And then you've got these debt collectors calling you, you know, blowing up your phone every day, making you feel like a bad person. Am I right?

I mean, it's demoralizing that, you know, I thought I could go and get a job. And I was like, oh, it's easy to keep a job. But I didn't realize how much your world can turn upside down the second you lose out on a paycheck. And then it goes into the next week and the next month and then two months. Yeah. Listen, what you're describing is what we are...

Every day on this show, we're trying to let people know, hey, you're literally one missed paycheck away from it feeling like it's pouring rain outside. Okay, so let's talk about the job site first. What were you doing before that quote good job that you had? What were you doing and what were you earning?

So I worked as a technician for the largest private company in the world and I was earning just shy of six figures, about $80,000 to $90,000 a year. Okay. What precipitated that move where you thought, I'm just going to quit this and I'm going to move across the country without a job, without savings and be around family? What happened to cause you to move?

So it was a multi-month process, but I had a family member back here who was like, hey, I need help. You know, I can't find a place to stay. You know, if you move in, you and a couple of siblings, and they're like, well, you know, it's going to...

be cheaper for three of us to share a place rather than just two. And I'm like, yeah, I can see that. And plus I had some other family stuff going on. So I figured it wouldn't be a bad idea because I got hired for a job before the move. So I came out, moved in literally the next day and working. Unfortunately, that just didn't work out. It was too far. It was almost an hour and a half, two hours commute, and the schedule was on call. So it just didn't work out.

Okay. Too far away. And so now, since then, since you've lost those opportunities, how many other jobs have you been applying for or, you know, interviewing for? Oh, I've been applying to just about everything in the area from nature park ranger to janitor. I'm applying to anything at this point. And what does that look like? Can you walk us through what that looks like? If you find a job you're interested in, what happens next?

Well, obviously I'd want to stay there and build up the... No, no, no. I mean, as you're applying for jobs, what does that process look like? Because if it looks like I go on... Most of it's online. Exactly. That's it. That's where your problem is. Yeah.

And I'm not Ken Coleman. I actually wish that he were here right now, but he would he'd be the first to tell you if you're just going online, filling out resumes, it's going into a black hole. And so we've got to start thinking about who we know. And are they in fields that might be linked to the things that we want to do?

And who can we reach out? Who can we network with? Who can we ask and say, hey, is there anything in your company? Do you know anybody? Can you put in a word for me? If we can create some sort of relational connection, that's really what gets – that's what's going to get you in the door and get your stuff moved to the top of the pile. But that's for career stuff. Right now, bro, you're like in a survival situation. I am. Yeah.

This is like going to knock on the door at Walmart and Taco Bell and say, I'm ready to work today. Well, that's a good point that John made. In the meantime, anything, like nothing's stopping you from doing those basic things that are out there, right? Like he said, the targets and the Uber Eats and the driving job. Yeah. And there's a big, can we be honest, how old are you? 30. Okay, 30.

Like, I just want to put this out there, man. If I'm in your situation and I left a job at the premier company in the world and I was a high paid technician and I left to go bail out a family member to go help them out and I'm struggling to even get a call back from a janitorial service. Right.

There's a part of that that hurts, man. There's an ego part of that that doesn't make you broken or somehow weak or weird. It's just, that's heartbreaking, man. It's a bummer, right? And can we also be honest? Living with your siblings at 30 is not great either, right? Well, say no. You think you're making the right choice. I was trying to help. I know you were. And that's why I'm doubly, I'm triply heartbroken for you. One, you had a great job and a great place and you were standing on your own two feet.

And you did something altruistically to go help family. And when you moved in with those three siblings or however many people are living there, you probably got a real quick understanding of why they don't, they struggle, right? Man, John, you just made a really great point. Like this hurts all the way around. You left a job to go help somebody and now you're the one needing help, right? Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That orbit thing is real. It's almost like you just got sucked into an orbit that wasn't the one. You maybe should have sucked them your way over to what you were doing, which was successful. But I mean, that spilled milk. I think right now...

The main thing is today, your homework today is, like John said, you're going out, you're going to Walmart, you're going to Target, you're calling Amazon Flex, you're just landing anything. And I get it, like John said, it's going to feel beneath you. And that's fine. Just know that you're doing this, you're in survival mode to keep food on the table. And then as for the money side of things, really do focus on those four areas that are of the

biggest concern right now, we call them four walls. So this is your priority, not the credit cards. Your priority is first I pay my portion of rent, I pay my portion of utilities, I make sure my transportation, I've got gas, I'm paying my car note if I have a car note, and then I have food, right? Those are the four things that no matter what, those are your priorities. If the credit card companies call, you can tell them to piss off because you don't have any money to give them right now, right? Right.

Right. And they're going to kick and scream and threaten and all this stuff. And at the end of the day, you're like, yeah, go ahead. I have nothing that you can take from me. I have no money. I have four roommates. I'm 30. Come get it. Exactly. Exactly. But knowing those four things are on lock is going to give you a little bit of peace and it's just going to make you feel, okay, I'm in control. I have a game plan. And yeah, pick up one of these jobs. And I think that

If you continue to pound on doors, we're going to make sure you have all the resources you need. We'll give you find the work you're wired to do from Ken Coleman. It's got a career assessment in there that'll help you get started. We'll give you paycheck to purpose. Hey, we're even going to throw in a couple of every dollar. We've got some gift cards that are for Aldi that'll give you some extra groceries. Just anything to kind of stretch this out for you so that you can have

some breathing room until you can get landed. And I don't know, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but it doesn't seem like there's much for you in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Yeah, David, while you're knocking on doors and driving between places, because for real, this is emergency time. You got to go get several jobs. And that's not where you thought you'd be at 30 helping out family. But here we are. I want you to be honest about the question. Do you think you can solve the puzzle that your family member has put in front of you?

Or is this a moment when you exhale and say, I've done my best. I tried. I moved across the country. And I'm going to call my colleagues back at my former job and see if I can get my job back because I'm going to move back across the country and rebuild my life because I had a good thing going. It's okay to say, I moved across the country. I gave up everything. This is not for me. And I'm going to start looking nationwide for new jobs because I'm going to get out of this three...

roommates at 30 situation. Confession, folks. When life gets really hectic, I don't take time to plan my healthy meals. Some days I can't even remember what a vegetable looks like. That's why I keep Field of Greens handy. It's a superfood powder made with real fruits and veggies selected by doctors to help your heart, lungs, metabolism, and more. I mix Field of Greens with water, I shake it up, and I'm ready to go. And to tell you the truth, I did expect it to kind of taste like compost, but

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Thanks for hanging out with us on The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney. Continuing to take your calls. It's a live show if you didn't know it, meaning you call in and we answer the question right on the spot, even though technically it does air the next day. Right, John?

Always. It still counts as live. You can get in on the action by calling 888-825-5225, and we'll get you on the line. And if nobody picks up, just leave a message because we do go through those, and we want to make sure that we hear your question. All right, we've got Carrie, who's in Minneapolis, Minnesota. What's up, Carrie? Hi. I'm so happy to be here. I'm calling. I'm 47 years old, and I'm concerned about my retirement.

set up and I don't know if it's too late for me. Well, tell us what you're concerned about.

Well, I was married for almost 18 years, got divorced, met someone with no plans to get married because we've both been there, done that. And I'm just now in my sixth year of full-time teaching at 47 years old. So I haven't been paying into the retirement system very long. Okay. I do have some savings and things like that, but I'm definitely worried about my future down the line. So tell us what you have in real numbers. What do you have put aside in retirement? Okay.

Right now I have $122,000 in a savings account. Just a regular savings high yield?

Yeah, just a normal savings account. That's where my paycheck goes and everything every month. And then I have another $26,300 that I get from Bart. I bartend as well on the weekends. So I make between $1,000 and $2,000 a month there. Okay. That's a weekend gig. Okay. And what about retirement? Did you put anything in a 403B? It's whatever the school contributes there. I'm not...

Yeah. Okay. So what I'm hearing, I do have a Roth IRA too. Oh, okay. What's in the Roth IRA? It's about 70,000 right now. And I put, I contribute about a hundred dollars a month into that. And I don't know if I should be doing more or what. And you said you don't know what's in the education, the 403B, 401k. Yeah. I'm not really familiar with it. Okay. But you know, they're putting something in there.

Yes. Okay. So here's what I kind of hear, and then I'll tell you what I think we can do here. I feel there's a lot of

I think we can streamline this because there's a lot of scattered thinking. I asked you what money you had set aside, and you've got this account that's housing savings, but it's also housing your paycheck. And then you've also got your bartending money going into there. We're not sure what's in the 403B. Like, does that make sense? So I think a lot of this, a lot of this you're going to feel better about to just get some real answers pinned down. So I like giving folks homework. So I think your homework today is,

You're going to find, you know, you're going to dig through the junk drawer or go through the notes app on your phone and you're going to find the login and find out what's in that 403B because it's your money and you should know what it is. So that's your first thing. So that way we can know specifically, okay, here's all that I have in retirement.

I have the $70,000 in my Roth IRA, you know, and I've got this much in the 403B. So that's thing one. Your next piece of homework is I want you to separate these accounts a little bit. I want you to have a checking account that your check, like your income comes into, and that's the account that you budget out of. And then I want you to have a separate account for your three to six month emergency fund.

And that can be that same high yield savings account that you have. But I want you to separate that money. OK, so that's thing number two is separate accounts. And then thing three, I want you to do is what I'm about to go with you and do right now, which is I want you to play with the retirement calculator. So right now I'm just on Ramsey Solutions dot com slash investment calculator. And I'm going to put in you told me you were 47 years old.

And you told me, let's just start with the $70,000 in the Roth IRA. So I'm going to plug that in. And then you said you're putting $100 a month towards that. And probably if it's invested well, you should be getting an annualized return of somewhere between 10% and 12% to be somewhat conservative. I know that. Okay. So if I calculate that,

in 20 years at age 67, you're going to have $588,000. Okay. I would say that that is not enough to want to retire comfortably. So that's why I want you to play with this because I want you to see what happens if I contribute $300 a month, what happens if I contribute, you know, and start playing with these numbers to get to the point where you feel comfortable about where you're at. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Yes. So right now you told me you're making the $26,000 from bartending. What else? What other money are you making? I make $2,800 a month teaching. That's my main gig. So the $2,800 and then the other $2,000 from bartending. So you're like $48 a month. Yes. Okay. And how much is your rent?

I actually don't have rent. I'm very lucky. The person I live with, I just have to contribute just my own bills, like my phone and my insurance and things like that, my car. How long does this arrangement last? Right. Right. That's, and okay, yeah, we've been together nine years. Are you married? No, there's no plan to get married yet.

He's been married. I've been married. You guys just like it the way it is. That's just how it's going to be. I guess so, yeah. Are you fine with that? No, you're not fine with that. Well, I mean, I get it. I'm fine with it. I mean, our stuff is separate. All right, think about this. Think about you in 15 years, and he goes out for a walk and falls over from a heart attack, which unfortunately I wouldn't have a job if that didn't happen all the time.

And are you going to quote unquote, is your 65 year old self going to be fine with this? Is your 70 year old self going to be fine with this arrangement when you look up and you got nothing?

And he's 15 years older than me, so that is a concern because he is older. So you've made peace with this arrangement that you don't love, but it just is. But you have a math problem that I hate to say it like this because it sounds cruel, but this math problem doesn't care about this arrangement you've made peace with. You've got a math problem ahead of you. Right. And if through this arrangement you've just decided this is going to be the way this is going to be,

Man, then you've got, like Jade was saying, you've got years of work ahead of you because that's the only other way to solve this math problem because y'all aren't living a true partnership. And the hard part is, here's the thing. Let me, I agree with what John is saying, but let me just back out just for a second because let's pretend that you're like, Jade, this is our arrangement. We don't, I don't hold your same values and I'm living with this guy. It works for us. Fine. What I would then say to you is,

What's your plan? There's two things to think about. A, is your name's not on this mortgage? Your name's not on this. You don't know. Is he leaving the house to his former children? Is he leaving the house? Do you see what I'm saying? I just want you to make sure you're in a place to where if something happens with him and your housing situation should change, that you're able to stand on your own two feet if you guys are not going to get married and you're not going to change the situation. That's what I'm concerned about.

You're totally right. I know the houses will not go to me, so I'm pretty aware of that. My dad did put me on his house, but it's an hour away and it's two hours from my job. So I do have, I will have a house someday. I mean, that is there.

Here's what I don't want. They don't want to depend on that. Yeah, exactly. And here's what I don't want. When people go into retirement, the line item that they need the most stability around is their housing. That's why we don't like folks renting going into retirement. I want you to have something that by the time you retire, it's yours, it's paid for, right? Right.

which feels pretty impossible to do while you're living with old boy, right? So you need to figure out what does this look like? If we're living together, am I going to be part owner of this thing? Do I need to have my own space and he has his own space? But you've got to create and solve for your own security going forward. Most phone plans are like bad roommates, unpredictable, always asking for money, hard to get rid of, and they never do the dishes. But

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I am calling because I am looking to get some debt in a row to buy a house, hopefully in the next couple of years. And I've been debt free since 2018, but I'm hoping to get manually underwritten through Zander or another company like that. So I recently looked at my credit score and saw that it is still there. It has dropped significantly, but it's at a 668. And I was just wondering how to get rid of it or how long does that take? Where did you check your credit score? Okay.

So Credit Karma actually sent me an email this week and they had two different scores from two different agencies. I'm going to tell you right now, Credit Karma plays games. First off, it's not real. Okay, I'm telling you. I'm going to tell you a real, this is based on a true story.

When my husband and I were going to buy our first house, we had paid off all my debt was paid off and had been paid off for about eight months. And I was waiting and waiting for my credit score to drop to zero so we could apply for this no score loan. And I kept checking Credit Karma and it was telling me, yeah, my score was in the 668s and it was offering obviously loan products to get your credit score up. Right.

Don't you know when I finally went on like a real credit reporting agency and I looked to see like directly from TransUnion, Equifax, it was zero. It actually was zero, but Credit Karma was reporting it as a low credit score so that I would engage in debt products.

Oh, wow. Well, that's a relief. Yeah. So pay, pay the 75 bucks or whatever it is. I think it's free. I think, I mean, when they pull it, isn't it like 75 bucks? You can go to annualcreditreport.com and get it for free. Annualcreditreport.com and get them for free. Yes. Get the real one and see what happens. And then if, if for some reason you still check and it's there, then really go through with a fine tooth comb and make sure and find out what is it that's open. Cause that means something is open somewhere.

Okay. Well, according to Credit Karma, I checked and it shows that everything has been closed since 2018. And there shouldn't be anything else outstanding. But I will check the other website. Thank you so much, guys. I appreciate it. Yeah, do it. Yes. I tell you what, man. You have to remember those sites, the whole point of them is to make money selling... A dead product. Yeah, another credit card or another personal loan. And they'll tell you, here's what we recommend in order to get your credit score up. Yeah. Dude, I didn't know they could do that. That's kind of shady. Kind of.

Super shady. It's super shady. And by the way, you'll get your mortgage not through Zander. Zander does insurance products. You'll get it through Churchill Mortgage. That's right. That's right. Very good. All right. Jordan's in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Jordan. How can we help? Hey. So I was wondering if it makes sense to buy a car. I'd be paying off in cash. I'm following the rule that it's not more than half my income. But it is going to be a Dodge Challenger. And I can drive a lot for it.

Are you concerned about the fact that it's a Dodge Challenger or the fact that you're just paying cash for it? I'm sorry. We're not trying to make fun of your car. I kind of am. I've driven a Fiat and a Hyundai Elantra. This is my fun car now. Okay, okay. Hey, you know what? You do you, Ru. What's it cost? I heard a comedian recently say that actually Dodge Challengers are part of a secret government program to identify those guys in every neighborhood. Okay.

Exactly. You know, I'm trying to make it easier for them. There you go. There you go. So what's the cost? Yeah. So it's going to cost depending on which one I get anywhere between, you know, 20,000 to 24,000. I'm buying it used. Um, I invest 15% of my income, you know, all that's kind of covered. Are you already married?

No, I'm not married. Yeah, see, I don't think anybody's going to date you in this car. That's a lie. Don't listen to John. I'm totally playing. Unless it's a bad color. What color is it? You know, this was supposed to help out with that. No, bro. No, get a truck. You're in Dallas, Texas, for God's sake. But hey, I'm serious. You do whatever you want to do. It depends on the type of lady you're trying to attract. Okay, so here we go. You've got the $20,000. It's going to be $20,000 to $24,000. You've got the cash to pay for it. You're out of debt. Yes. You're in Baby Step 4. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Okay. So do you own a home? No. So I've moved like six times in the last five years. So I wasn't going to buy a house until I kind of settled down. Okay. And so I have like a separate saving fund for house payment. And you've got three to six months of expenses? Yes. Yes. I have a little bit more than that. And how much is that?

Yeah, so I have $30,000 for emergency fund, and then I have my down payment, like just an S&P 500, about $46,000. My guy. Good job. Yeah. Bro, you're marriable. Just get this car and vroom, vroom it. But please get it in black. Don't get it in a crazy color. No, get it bright orange. If you're going to go for it, dude, go for it, man. Go for it? Okay. Get some racing stripes on it. Man, that's...

I just want to tell you, get a Camry, but you do you, man. You get your Charger. Yeah, I mean, I think you've got it. You're doing everything right. You've got your emergency fund, $30,000. You've already got $46,000 in this house fund. I think $20,000 to $24,000 is a... We didn't ask you, though. How much is your income? $85,000 before bonuses. Okay. Yeah, get your car, dude. I'm proud of you. I'm happy for you. That's great. Yeah, good for you, man. And hey...

I could tell he knows. He's cool. I like that dude. Yeah. Are you convincing yourself? No, no, no. It's kind of like this. Like back in college, like if I was like, hey, do you like Seinfeld? And they're like, I hate that show. I just knew we weren't going to be friends. Yes, yes. And so normally if I'm somewhere and somebody cruises up and like their charger, we're probably not going to hang. I like that guy though. I would want to hang out with that dude.

You know what I mean? Yeah, I got you. It's like when somebody pulls up and it's just like, we're probably not going to be friends. I just like, I can just probably tell. So do you feel like you're only friends with people who drive trucks? No, goodness. No, goodness. No.

How do you feel about people who drive Cadillacs or Teslas? I was just saying, George drives like a Gen 1 Tesla that I've had to push down the highway. No, he's a great friend. He might not want to be friends with you now since you roasted him mercilessly. No, he knows. He knows. He gets it. No, good on him, man. Good on him. So Sam and I were out. Where were we? We were out this weekend, and I saw a truck that looks like yours. And I said, oh, John just got a new truck. It looks just like that. He goes, oh.

He goes, I didn't know he was that guy. I know, dude. Trust me, I'm struggling with that, too. I'm like, you are this guy. No, I got in. I did. I got a new truck and I got in it and it automatically adjusted for where I had set it last. And I was like, dude, I'm that guy. No, it's great. I'm happy for you. I don't have crank windows anymore. I just push a button and the window comes down. The whole thing, man. Well, that's been since like 1998, but...

Not in the cars I drive. No, I'm still struggling. I'm struggling. So Jordan from Dallas, I'm taking out my own insecurities on you, brother. I'm glad you're buying yourself a charger. Charge them up, man. Oh, man. I love this. Okay, so. I'm just saying nobody in Fort Worth would drive that car. That's all I'm saying. All right, go ahead.

Dallas. Okay. So in that same vein, let's take this question of the day from the Ramsey Network app. Let's see. There's a couple of them here. Let's go with this one from Abigail. She says, why do you use the term fund money instead of allowance for spousal personal spending? Because my spouse isn't my child. Yeah. Listen, I wish Sam Warshaw would be like, here's your allowance. If I said the words to my wife, hey, here's your allowance.

I would wake up and I'd be on a feeding tube somewhere. You'd look like Rocky Balboa after Clubber Lang. Just done. Oh, gosh. Yeah. With the guy in the middle. Like, yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah, because we're not children. It's disrespectful. Yeah. And by the way, with all due respect and love and care, Abigail...

Use whatever term you want to use. Like you're all grown up. You could call it shenanigan money. You could call it singing and dancing. I don't know. Whatever you want. Yeah. Whatever. Whatever. I want money. Yeah. I want money. Not your money. Like I don't. Yes. Allowance. Allowance sounds like somebody is giving me something as a handout.

somebody else giving it to me, not giving it to my, you know. Not me making an adult choice to, we agree on this is what you're going to spend, this is what I'm going to spend. We shake hands, we high five, and we can call it whatever we want. Yes. Yeah, that's really where that ends. Fun money sounds fun. Allowance sounds like somebody put baby in the corner. Yeah.

And nobody puts baby in the corner. Exactly. Yeah. I'm big on vocabulary when it comes to money. How we talk about things really matter. I, you know, we talk all the time. If you're married, you say things like we, our, us instead of mine, you, yours. And it's the same thing with this. It really doesn't matter the vocabulary that we're choosing. So I think I think I have to go back and check. I think the line item that Sheila put in the budget is John's crap.

I think that's what it says. That feels accurate. I like that. I think that's what it says. I like Sheila. I need to spend more time with this woman. These days, business as usual is anything but. Tariffs make trade policy a moving target. Supply chains are squeezed and cash flow is probably tighter than ever. So if your business can't adapt in real time, you're in a world of hurt.

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I have a... I'm sorry, I'm a little emotional. You're good, brother. Oh, that's okay, Ronnie. Forgive me. No, there's no forgiveness needed, man. We're with you, bud. I'm glad you called. I'm sorry, it's really hard to talk about. Yeah. What happened? I'm calling because...

My wife, we've been married 25 years, and she, like the day before Mother's Day, she came up to me and said that she didn't love me anymore, and she wanted out of the marriage. Oh, man. And so here I am today. I have to pick up the divorce papers. I was going to pick them up Thursday. Mm-hmm.

And more than likely, I'm going to end up losing my home too because I have a feeling, I don't know what's going to happen. The house is either going to get sold or she's going to buy me out. And I'm assuming she's going to buy me out because she loves the house. And we have a 17-year-old. And so that's their home. And I don't know what to do. I've got, as far as money, for me, I've got like,

$36,000 to my name, and that's money I saved up in savings, and I was going to use it. Our plan was I was going to use it to pay my automobile off, and the job that I'm doing right now, I was going to help my wife pay the house off early so we wouldn't have any debt before we retired. Wow.

So this came out of the blue. You feel completely blindsided. Yes, ma'am. How old are you, ma'am? I'm 57. Yeah. Dude, I'm so sorry, brother. I'm sorry. Before you get into any big decision making, before you start talking, I'm going to have to do this and cash this out or whatever, this is going to be a humble pill to swallow.

But I want you to exhale and not make any crazy decisions until you're actually looking at the paper in hand. Okay? Okay. And do you have an attorney working with you? I'm attorney shopping right now. So I meet with one Friday. All right. If you feel a sense of trust and a sense of partnership with this attorney, I'm going to give you some language. It's really hard to hear, but this is just the most honest truth I can give you. Okay? Okay.

If your wife has said our marriage is over and papers are coming your way on Thursday, then you are entering out of a marriage into a business transaction. Yes. Okay. And so you want to make the best business deal both for your 17-year-old and for you. And you want to remain a person of dignity and respect towards your soon-to-be ex-wife. Okay. Okay. And we're going to take care of that 17-year-old.

And that might mean selling the house and a portion of the funds go to like whatever, but y'all got to figure that out. How you divide up retirement. That's what, that's what the attorneys are going to do all that stuff. Okay. Um, and dude, there's going to be all kinds of stuff about infidelity and questions and like years of your wife's text messages and emails are going to come to light. So are yours. All that mess happens unless y'all shake hands on a mediation, but all that stuff's going to get taken care of. I,

I just don't want you cashing something out, going and selling a bunch of stuff. Don't do any of that right now. Just don't do anything until you actually have real facts in your hand. Hear me say this. Facts are your friend, not the stories you're making up in your head because you're scared and because you're heartbroken, okay? I can't afford a lawyer. Well, you can't afford not to have one. I know. Okay? It's going to cost you $5,000 of that $36,000 or $10,000 of that $36,000. It's money well spent if it's going to save you money.

Half a million dollars against this house you have or $250,000 against this house you have. Yeah. And whatever retirement y'all have saved up. She doesn't have any. I've got $18,000 of a 401k that I have from a previous job. That's all you got? That I was thinking of turning over on a CD. No, we're not doing anything. Don't do that. No. Okay. Sit tight. Yeah. Don't cash out anything. Okay. How much other retirement do you have?

That's it. That's all I got. Okay, so I'm going to say something harsh, okay? Because I love you and I only have a few minutes. You're broke, right? Yeah. Okay. So we're probably talking about going to a one-bedroom apartment for at least a year while you let the smoke clear on this deal. Okay? And you got the cash to do that right now if she ends up getting the house. Well, what am I supposed to do with my truck payment? How have you been paying it? I've been taking it out of that...

$36,000. That's what it is. Are you working? Are you working full time? I'm doing a small job. I'm doing a, I remember you talking to somebody about doing Amazon Flex. I'm on the Amazon Flex waiting list, but I'm also doing Spark delivery right now. How long have you been doing that? How long have you been out of career work? Since March. And what were you doing before that?

Before March. I was working at Benzo Manufacturing. Would they give you your job back or they let you go? I would love to go by there and see if I can't get my job back. I would go there today. And if not there, you stop by Home Depot on the way home, stop by Walmart on the way home. You've got to get a job. You've got to get several jobs. Because forget this. Let's say your marriage was strong and ironclad. You're knocking on the door at 60 and you have no money.

You get what I'm saying? Yeah. And I also think this is, mathematically, this is a very solvable problem, okay? I don't want you to do anything drastic or anything like that. But you do got to, you got to just get after it now. All right. And by the way, this is going to sound counterintuitive. You're heartbroken right now. But having a sense of purpose every day when you wake up, a thing to go to, will help your nervous system. It'll help your body immensely. Yeah. All right? Yeah. Yeah.

Ronnie, let's talk about that car, your truck real quick. What do you owe on it? I owe $34,000 on it. Okay. Do you happen to know what it's worth?

Well, the dealership actually sent something in the mail wanting to buy it back from me for $27,000. Well, we can't go by that. They are lowballing you this side of Sunday. That's not going to happen. Your homework is to find out what that would be worth private sale because I want you going into those negotiations with the idea that you're going to sell that truck and

and use some of the $36,000 to get yourself a cash car. You're not going to do that today, but I want that to be part of your... Would you do it today, John? Brother, I might. Because I'm just saying mathematically, if you were still married and you called this show, you don't have a job. I would tell you sell that truck and take $10,000 of that $36,000 and go buy yourself a used F-150.

Or use 2006 Tundra. Yeah, I'd pull the trigger on that. Yeah. Because you can't afford the truck you got. You don't have a job, man. And when this starts to go down and unravel, you're going to need every dime you can get your hands on.

Yeah, I know. But if you went and sold that truck today, private sale, somebody will buy that truck on Facebook Marketplace this weekend, especially where you live there in Knoxville. A good truck is always marketable. And you took $10,000. You got $36,000 in the bank. You took $10,000 and went out and bought yourself a truck that runs. Nothing nice, but something that runs well. Now you've killed two birds with one stone.

And now you don't owe anybody anything. Well, the reason why I have this truck to begin with is I bought it back in 23. And I was driving my wife's Honda Accord that had... She bought it when we were dating. It had like 320,000 miles on it. And...

And I was, I couldn't build a savings account because I kept dumping out money out of the savings account. Right, but that's not going to be this next truck, right? Don't put that on this next vehicle. This next vehicle is going to be a nicer $10,000 vehicle. There's plenty of vehicles out there that's got a couple hundred, you know, 100,000 miles on it, but it'll still run. It'll be great. My Cadillac's got 150 on it. It's just fine. The truck I'm selling to my son...

It's got 200,000 miles and it's a great, great truck. I've been driving it for years. Just make sure you get the insurance. You're not in 2023 anymore. Your life just transformed, not by your hand, but in your lap. Get the Carfax on the vehicle. Make sure you know what it's been through and make an educated guess there. And let's go get two jobs this weekend. Game on, brother. We're with you this whole way.

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All right, today's question comes from Todd in Wyoming. Todd writes,

My fiance wants her name added to the title and mortgage once we are married. Would that be a wise decision for me to add her name onto the paperwork?

I feel like this question is not about the question. No. If that makes sense. This is about, I'm doing good with my money. My wife, the woman I'm about to marry, is not so good with her money. Yeah. I mean, okay. So let's back it out. In any normal circumstances when there's trust and everybody's feeling good about combining finances...

You know, the whole thing about adding someone to a mortgage, you can't do that unless you refinance, right? And that's kind of a big deal, especially if you're one of these people who had like a 2 or 3%. Yeah, six years ago. This dude's got a low interest rate. Exactly. So I wouldn't necessarily do that today. You could easily add her to the deed, and that way she's joint owner. She's an owner of the house. Yeah, and you can do that very easily. Now, if you were to...

let's say you get married and you never add her to the mortgage, you never refinance and you were to pass away, it's still going to go straight to her. She would still be able to assume that mortgage. Yeah, I call the mortgage professional and the professional said, if somebody's an owner on the deed, but their name isn't on the mortgage,

That doesn't matter when it comes to ownership. And if the person, if the husband, if you died in the situation, that's the one and only time her name would get moved to the actual mortgage if she wanted to keep the payments without a refi. So it would be all taken care of. Being able to afford it is a whole other question. Right, there you go. But just being able to make that transition. But that being said, I don't really feel...

I almost called you Ken. I don't really feel, John, that the question is about that. I feel like he's more thinking, like you said, she's got this debt and I don't. And I kind of don't

know if I want to combine finances. That's what it sounds like. Well, and so here's the deal. I think this is the way I would look at it, Todd. And check me on this, Jade, if I'm wrong. Todd, yes, I would add my wife the day after we get married, after my honeymoon, probably, I would add my wife to as an owner of the house. I put her name on the deed. No, absolutely. I wouldn't worry so much about

refinancing, especially you got this house six years ago. You probably got a good interest rate, but I want you to think about this. Y'all together, um, make a little over $300,000 a year and y'all are going to have $175,000 in student loan debt. Right.

And y'all are going to have to bust your butts and get this paid off. You make 300 grand a year. You can get that paid off in two years and just move on with your lives. So that's the way y'all need to think about y'all's money. And if that makes you feel uncomfortable, then I would check myself before I wreck myself and get married. Listen, I agree with this statement. The only thing I disagree with is the y'alls. I'd say you guys.

How about that? That's Texas versus Florida. It's all good. You people. All right. We got Meredith in Huntsville. What do you mean, you people? Meredith, what's going on? Hi, James and John. Thank you for taking my call. My question is, can I afford tickets to a Dolly Parton concert, or should I focus solely on buying a house? And where is that concert located?

It is in Vegas. This is my kind of call, John. Okay, this is baby step 9A, which we don't talk about very much. And that is, if you can see Dolly...

You go see Dolly. Always see Dolly. And always see her in Las Vegas. Okay. I mean, maybe not always. Let's roll it back. Listen, I want to say yes no matter what, but I can't. So you said, should I do this or focus on a down payment? So I'm assuming that you are actually and correctly on Baby Step 3B, which would mean there's no other debt. Can we check that green? Yes.

Yes. No other debt. Okay. That would also mean that you have three to six months of expenses. Can we check that box green? Yes. Okay. That would also mean that you have begun baby step four in some capacity or negative? Remind me what that's for. Investing. Investing 15%. Have you started that yet? Oh, yes. Yes. Okay. So we can check that green. And then have you started anything towards the down payment or you're just thinking about it?

Yes, I have probably about $50,000 that I can put toward it. Of course, that's really including any expenses like closing costs, etc. Sounds like you're going to see Dolly. Girl, get good tickets. Well, I like that. Get good seats. Yeah, get right up front. Who's going with you? I'm not sure yet. Probably a family member or friend if I can get them to go to Vegas with me. Wow, I love this for you. What's your income? You're doing great. What's your income?

About $60,000. Wow. You've done so well. Thank you. Yeah, I'm proud of you. And really, the math problem here is this. When it all comes down to it, this might mean you buy a house in January instead of December. After tickets, after plane rides, after hotels, it's going to be a couple thousand bucks, and you're saying, I would rather buy a house in January and have had this amazing experience before buying a house in December, right? Yeah.

Right. Yeah. And I'm definitely a saver. So I'll probably be trying to get it closer to a thousand dollars for all the expenses. But yes, definitely. Best of luck to you. I don't think you can sneeze in Vegas for a thousand bucks. If you're going to go, you might as well go. You've got the money. You said you got three to six months plus fifty thousand saved. Plus you've been investing. Plus you don't owe anybody money. Go enjoy yourself. Have a good time. What hotel are you staying in?

Cosmopolitan? I don't know, but I know that the show is at Caesars Coliseum. Okay, great. Don't stay at Caesars, though. Stay at the Cosmo. All right. I like this call. I'm so excited. Meredith, that's great. That's fun. Are you a Vegas person, John? If I'm going for a thing. So like me and Blake Thompson and Brian Williams, two guys who work here, we went down to see Social Distortion, my favorite. We had the time of our life. If people are like, let's just go to Vegas, I'm like,

I'm not a fan. Really? I get burnt out within 24 hours. Well, you can't stay long. I feel like three days is the limit. If I'm going for a thing, then I love it. If I'm going to watch the fight, I love it. If I'm going just to look around and stand in circles, I don't care for it. No gambling for you. No tables. No blackjack. No. I like...

Oh, yeah, I do. Got you. Okay. That's why you got to set a limit on it for sure. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. This happened the last time I was there. So the concert, the Social D concert has a big mosh pit and it's a big chaotic event. And I was down in there and I had, I did, I had took a little bit of money to set on fire and I ended up sat by some guy who helped me out and

I had a silly, silly day at the blackjack table. Nice. But I was so over the top, which I know is hard for you to imagine. I was a little bit a lot. Somebody stops me in the mosh pit and they're like, hey, there's that guy. And I was thinking they were talking about the show. I was like, yeah, what's up? I'm kind of cool. And he goes, that's that goofball from the casino earlier. And I kind of made a scene. I never win anything.

that's so fun when people are winning and they make a scene or a table is hot but then here's the deal we all got to get t-shirts got to pay for like breakfast and dinner it was a blast man so I yeah it was a good time oh man that's right are you are you a Vegas person Las Vegas aside from going to the beach that's my favorite trip if I can go every year I go every year yeah that's my jam Sam Warshine I good on you man listen go see Dolly Parton Meredith go see Dolly Parton I saw Bruno Mars in Las Vegas wait

No, I saw him in Miami. Who did I see in Las Vegas? Oh, you two. Was that pretty awesome? Oh my gosh. Did you go to the Sphere? Yes, I went to the Sphere. You did? Yes. And, and, and. I heard that was a spiritual experience. It was okay. I didn't have great seats. I sat in the wrong spot. But my memory from that is I passed Bono in the hallway and he said, what's up? Did you say, what up, B? It took me a moment. I was like, oh.

Like, you know, you have that moment where you're like, I can't believe this is him. But Bono spoke directly to me. I can still feel the glow. I lifted off the ground a little bit. James is in there weeping. He's like, Bono never talked to me. Look, James, I don't feel like James cares about Bono. Are you kidding me? Do you care about the edge? I love Bono, but the edge would mean more to me if I saw him. Yeah, I didn't see him. You know what? I think I feel the same way. I think I would...

I think you guys both need to seek professional help immediately. Does U2 not make your list, John? I love U2. I just think The Edge makes jangly noises with tons of reverb. No! Don't say that! Yeah, that's excellent. You're kind of right, though. This has been The Ramsey Show. These days, the Internet is chock full of so-called investing advice from random goobs with zero qualifications.

Listen, folks, you deserve guidance from someone who knows what the flip they're talking about. That's why I recommend the SmartVestor program. SmartVestors can help you find a professional financial advisor who can teach you to make your own best decisions with your own money.

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From the Ramsey Network app, it's The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Gorsha. Next to me again, Dr. John Deloney, continuing to take your calls. It is a live show, so if you call in, you're talking to us live in the moment. How about that? We got Linda, who's in Fort Worth, Texas, on the line. What's going on, Linda? How can we help today? ♪

Hey, you guys. I am in credit card debt. I pay about a third of my net income in credit card debt. Holy smokes. And I am wondering, yeah, I know. It wasn't intentional. From the beginning of 2024 to the end of 2024, my job changed and I got like...

Okay. So what are you making now? Okay. How do you not know? September? Okay.

How do I not know? Because I know my base pay, but I'm teaching English and there's stipends with that. So we don't know what the stipends are. They should be about $5,000. I used to get a stipend schedule, but you may have to call central office. Are you with Tarrant County? Who are you with? So I'm actually, I live outside of Fort Worth. I'm in Gregg County. Okay. I would...

If you haven't already, I would call them just for the peace of mind, just to see what the stipend schedule is. Yeah. For whatever that's worth. That not knowing, because that's 500 bucks a month, right? Yeah. Yes, it is. That's a lot of extra money on an annual basis. I would just reach out and call them because they should have a schedule that should already have been voted on and everything, right?

So, yeah, so they just sent out like two weeks ago what the pay scale is going to be. So I know I'm getting a $2,000 rate for sure. It's just the stipends that they haven't sent out yet. Okay. Okay. So we think it's going to be 52 in September. That's what I'm. Yes. Okay. So the problem here is the credit card debt. Is there other debt to speak of?

So I do have a student loan, which I don't I only pay like $40 a month on that, which I know that's right now. That's like not a major issue for me right now. It will be. And I know what's the total amount of it. But it's the fifty three thousand. I would call that an issue. So we got the student loan. We've got the student loan. We've got the credit card debt. What is that total?

$25,742. Okay. And then what else? Any vehicles? And then I owe a family member about $7,000, which they said, don't worry about it. I'm worrying about it. It's on my list. It's going to get paid back. When they said, don't worry about it, is that, hey, this was a gift? Truly don't worry about it? Or was it, hey, it's still a loan, but you don't have to worry about paying it right now?

It's a loan. You don't have to worry about it. If I don't pay it back, they're not going to be upset with me. Like there's not going to be any problems, but they don't, they're, they're not rich. So $7,000 to them was a significant amount of money. How long have you, how long ago did you borrow it? About six months ago, I had a plumbing issue that obviously, I mean, I can't even pay my bills right now. Like I go into debt every month right now. Do you have a summer job?

I do. So I taught summer school, which I just finished last week. And then I do visitations for CPS, like parent-child visits. Fantastic. Cool. Good. Okay. So yeah, so we've got student loans, credit cards, family loan, any auto loan, anything else we should know about? Oh, thank God. My car is paid for. Great. Yes, I'm happy about that. And are you currently working? Are you using a budget every month?

I do. I do. So right now, bills, not including food, my bills are $3,200. And I make $3,188. Okay, so where's the overage going? So I have a mortgage, which is $1,433. And then I pay $9.55 in credit card. And that's just my minimum. Okay.

And then that leaves me about $800 for general bills and some food. Okay. But you said, I thought I heard you say that your bills are $32 and you bring home $31. Yes. So where's the extra? $31.88. What are you doing to cover the extra? Is that going on credit cards actively? Yes.

Yes. Okay, so there's, okay, this is good. This is good. We're finding the source of the issue. So I say this all the time. And I'll say the same thing to you, Linda, you can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. Okay, so debt is your problem. So at some point, you're going to have to cut this thing off at the source and say, I just the first step in solving this is you have to become a person who doesn't borrow money.

Otherwise it's all for not like, what's the point of paying and working so hard to scrap to pay these things off if you're actively borrowing against your own efforts. Right. Yes. So today, because here's what's going to happen. You're going to put yourself in a position of survival when you do that. And you're going to say, okay, I must, now I must make changes before I kind of had the option, you know, just in case if I don't, I still know I have this credit card here. Right. But now when you cut that credit card up,

And, you know, it's not an option now. It's like, oh, my gosh, it's it's it's game time. I got to get in here and make some real moves. I have to earn money. I have to make this happen. I have to cut back in other areas. Right.

Yeah. So that's what I would say is numero uno. A lot of people miss that step and it's it's a costly one. So let's draw that line in the sand today. That's your homework piece of number one. And then number two, now we're just solving this like any other equation. And John, it's the same two factors every time you got to get money in. You got to get more, more and more money coming in and you've got to get tighter about the money going out.

That is always going to be the solution to these problems. And it's not easy. But what else could you do to find money for the rest of the summer? And what else can you do to find more money when the school when school starts up in September?

So I'll continue doing my visits when school starts. Right now, I'm currently – so my original job was with the government. So I'm in an alt-cert program for teaching. So right now, I'm like in college this summer. I've been there. That's exactly what I did. And honestly, I love teaching. I have – and I have equity in my house. I was blessed with – like right now, life is –

So freaking good. Yes, but that's not the problem. Yeah, you're drowning, hon. Well, no, I mean, I'm not spending. But you called in because you make $3,100 and you spend $3,200. Yes.

So that's still a problem. Many things can be true at the same time, right? Like life can be good in a lot of other areas, but financially your life is not good right now. But here's what I want you to do. Several simple things. I want you to get on the phone today with Xander and check all of your insurances. Okay. I want you to cut every single solitary streaming service you have. All of them. Okay. Because what you're trying to do right now is find 150 bucks a month just to break even Steven. Mm hmm.

Yeah. Everything. And you have to tell all your friends, I can't eat out anymore. And that means when you're going to do a home visit, you pack a ham sandwich to go with you. Now, I don't know anything about this home business. Yeah. What do you make it on those home visits per visit?

Not very much. I only make $15 an hour. Then I think you've got to find a better side hustle. Yeah, make $25 an hour tutoring English or math at the local school. You're going to make more money doing that. Yeah, that's what this amounts to. I know that you're burning the candle at both ends. I know that you're out there trying to do work, but you then have to say, hey, is this worth the time I'm putting into it? Or can I find something that I can make more per hour so that I can get this thing right side up and actually start making progress on this debt instead of minimum payments? You'll be paying minimum payments forever if you don't change this.

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If you want to get a little bit more savvy about it, we built something very special. It's called the Ramsey 101 playlist. And this will help you help those folks that you're sharing the show with. Okay. It's free. It's an easy to share playlist that really covers all the basics for someone who's really just getting involved with the Ramsey plan. Okay. So on that channel, there are clips on what the baby steps are.

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Hi. Well, I'm wanting to know how I can deal with my own debt while going into a marriage without pulling my fiance down. And he's in a really good spot financially. So I don't want to, you know, ruin the relationship. I know finances is the number one reason for divorce. Sure. Have you guys talked about this? Does he know about your debt? Yes. One of the first things we talked about. Great. How much do you owe?

It's only about $12,000 in credit card debt. I don't have any student loans. I don't have any car payments. Okay. So it's just the credit cards. And you're done with using credit cards?

I'm trying to be. I've switched jobs. I had to move towns to move in with him, and then that caused me to have to switch jobs, so I was out of work for about a month or so. He pays for a lot of the stuff because he makes really good money, but I'm still on the lower end. Okay. Listen, I'm 100% about paying off debt for anybody, single, married, married.

to be married. I'm always looking, though, for a change in behavior because it's

that's what's going to make this thing stick, right? It's like doing, otherwise it's like doing a crash diet to lose weight and you never get to the core issue and you immediately put the weight back on because you keep eating nachos, right? Like it's that same thing. And so for you, yeah, the core issue is you're utilizing credit cards instead of doing whatever it takes to make sure that you're really in a secure place financially. So you could pay off this debt, but if you hit a hard time again, you're going to fall right back to credit cards. And I don't want you to do that.

So similar to the last call, there has to be that switch that flips that you say, this has been causing me heartache and pain. I'm not going to do this anymore. And are you and your fiance, do you, is that going to be the move going forward? What's his, what's his thought about debt? Well, he's, like I said, he's in a really good spot financially. That's not what she asked. What does he think about debt?

Well, he wants to get it paid off, but he also knows that, you know, going forward, we want to start like a real estate business. So he knows that you sometimes have to go into debt to make money. Interesting. Like buying a rental property. Obviously, you have to go into a little bit of debt to get the property, but then you earn it, you know, earn it back.

He's definitely the more financial savvy person out of the two of us. I don't know about that. Yeah, that makes him unsavvy. So here's what John and I want to do. We're going to gift you Financial Peace University because I think that you...

could benefit from more financial literacy, right? I think you're just seeing he seems to have more money in the bank. He's better with money. I have a little bit of debt. I'm terrible with money. When really, I think you guys are both young and it's so important to really learn

how money works, how debt works. Is it necessary? Is it unnecessary? All of those things, things that I know, I don't know, John, about you, but I wish I had known it when I was first getting my start. It would have changed everything. So we're going to make sure you have Financial Peace University. We're going to make sure you have every dollar. And to answer your initial question, yeah, I would work really hard to pay off this debt, Emma. But again, remember, the point of paying off the debt is because you've said, this is a negative thing for me.

This is stealing my paycheck. It's stealing my joy. It's making life frustrating when I have transitions between jobs, right? Because now I got to pay my debt and I lost my job. So remember that. And remember that debt is not your friend so that after you pay it off, from here on out,

we set this foundation to where, yeah, we can use our cash. We've saved up money. If there's an emergency, we use the money that we've saved. If we'd like to purchase something, we save up the money to purchase it, even if it's real estate. And so I just want you to remember this moment and remember this call going forward, because I think you guys are going to pay off this debt. And I think you're going to go on to have a great marriage. But in two seconds with real estate, you could pile up another 500,000 like that. And think how that would feel.

Yeah. And now you were, go ahead. Our wedding is August 30th of this year. When we get married, combining finances, how do we, how like, how do we do that? I'm not really sure. That's a good question. So the, the practical side of it is,

you're going to have a checking account. And that one checking account is going to be the one that both of your paychecks go into and that both of you have access to. And in that one checking account, that's going to be the one that you link to your budget. And so that's the one that you can say, okay, we're forming our budget based on this checking account. And this is how we're spending that money. Then you guys are both going to have a savings account.

And that savings account is going to be where your $1,000 Baby Step 1 Emergency Fund goes. It's going to be where your three to six months of...

fund goes when you get to that step. And that's going to be that. And then from there on, you know, if you decide you need another extra savings account, once you get beyond three to six months of expenses, you can do that. But the point is from here on out, everything is done in full transparency together. You're both on the accounts. Nobody has a side account over here for a rainy day that the other guy doesn't know about. Nobody's taking out debt that the other person doesn't know about. So that's kind of the practical side of it. But John, I mean, obviously there's a...

emotional component to it as well. Yeah. And this is the money fights that you've, you've heard that, that, that phrase that you mentioned at the beginning of the call, like money fights are the big fight that breaks up relationships. It's not about owing $12,000. It's about something in your relationship dynamic makes you feel so less than because you have $12,000.

It is, I'm going to work really hard. We're going to pay this $12,000 off. We get married. We get one checking account. And one person says, I'm not putting my money in one checking account. Are you crazy? I get my money. You get your money. That's a money fight. Or, hey, we got everything paid off. I want to borrow a million dollars for two rental homes. That's money fights that breaks up marriages and relationships. Yeah.

Yeah, and we've had the conversation that it's not your money or my money. It's our money. Perfect. Good. Once we're married, I think I just have a hard time with guilt feeling like I'm taking advantage of him because he's got like over $600,000 of assets and investments. He's talked to a financial planner. He has like a financial planner. Okay, listen to me very carefully. He's not better than you. Yeah. Okay? He's not better than you.

He might know more about a thing. My wife is, was, when we got together, was a world-class elementary school teacher. She became nationally renowned for childhood literacy. You know what I know about childhood literacy? Almost nothing. And I sit with people whose lives are falling apart. That's not what she does. Neither of us are better than the other person.

All of our money goes into the same account every month and we go from there. And so it's you not coming into this marriage. And if he makes you feel this way, you need to have this conversation before you get married. And if he tells you every day, I love you and I can't wait till we're married and you're bringing this in, I want you to go talk to somebody. Talk to our friends at BetterHelp. But you've got to talk to somebody to work on that idea that

He's so much better than me, smarter than me. He's a better partner than me. And I'm just kind of this dead weight being pulled behind the car because I'm bringing $12,000 in. No, not at all. He picked you. You picked him. Keep your head high.

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Well, it was up there. Getaway? It wasn't Getaway. It was Events, I think. Oh. I think that's the same thing. Is it the same thing? Okay, try both of them. Type them both in. You'll get there eventually. Or just click on the link in the show notes, YouTube, or the podcast. There you go. I like that. Let's go out to the Utes. Rebecca. Salt Lake City. Utes. That's funny. Yes. What's up, Rebecca?

Hi. So my husband passed away and left me a $4 million investment account that I have no idea how to run, to be honest. He took care of all the finances and everything.

Yeah, I'm just... It's a steep learning curve. I'm learning, doing a lot of reading. But the problem I'm coming up on is that people have sort of come out of the woodwork asking me for money and help. And I've always had a hard time saying no to people. Yeah. And...

So I'm just having a really hard time navigating all the learning curve of learning how dividends work and investments work on top of people coming to me and saying, hey, I need four grand here. Who are the people? I need 10 grand there. Who are these people? So I grew up really poor. I have 10 siblings. So it's family, my mom, a couple of friends.

But I guess my husband was always a buffer because it was his money. It was never my money. Hey, do me a favor. When did he pass away? In May. May. Wow, that's... What was his name? His name was Oscar. Pretty awesome guy? Yeah. You miss him? Yeah. Yeah, I'm so sorry. Yeah, he's my best friend. Yeah. Here's...

Jay's going to walk you through the money part of this. Here's my rule of thumb no matter what. The first thing I want you to do in some of these... We're not doing anything with this money for six months. Unless they mail you a check and they liquidate stuff, we're leaving the stuff where it is. There's no pressure here. The second thing is...

If anybody calls you within a month and a half of your husband's passing asking for money, they are declaring themselves unfit for any sort of support. That callousness and lack of care and compassion for you and your grief is – it's hard for me to wrap my head around. And I spend my time working with people who don't know how to handle grief well. That blows my mind, okay? Down the road, I want you to always keep in mind this idea –

When you spend money, when you give money, I want you to sometimes close your eyes and imagine Oscar sitting right next to you. And is he nodding his head with a smile or is he shaking his head no with that old Oscar smirk on? Okay? Yeah. How are we going to be a best steward of the resources he left you to live on the rest of your life? Yeah. Okay? But we're not going to do anything right now.

Jay, tell her about the smart investor that sit with somebody. You don't need to be researching dividends on your own right now in the middle of all this grief. No, what you do need to be thinking about is kind of amassing a team of helpful humans that can help you walk through this. If I were you, yeah, I'd want a tax professional. I would want a smart investor. I would want just an attorney just to be on my side, just somebody I know I can call if something pops up.

You're hiring buffers is what you're doing. And they're the people who are helping you think through these things from all sides. The good news is you can find all that on RamseySolutions.com. We can help you with the tax professional. We can help you with the smart fester. And, you know, we can even kind of put you on the right trail maybe to help you find a lawyer in your area. But...

it doesn't change what John said. Nothing's happening in the next six months to a year. That money is just going to sit there. My guess is, are you drawing some sort of an income from it already?

Yeah, yeah, I am. So my husband was retired, and so we lived off. It's a bigger estate than what I inherited. He split it 50-50. It was about a $20 million estate. Okay. So I own a home that's paid for. I own two cars that are paid for. I have no debt. Got it. And then a $4 million investment account that I live off the dividends of.

But I've had people tell me, like they've said, you should just get a job. Like that's what you need to do now is just get a job. Well, let's talk about that. I've got a five-year-old daughter and...

And so I'm like, you know, I was a stay-at-home mom, so like my life's just been flipped upside down and people are... I mean, I had one person say, well, a good nanny solves everything. And I'm like, but I gave up my career to raise my daughter. So I don't feel like it's irresponsible. It's not. You get to live your life the way you want to live your life and...

There's a lot of haters out there that wish they could make the choices that you're going to have the freedom to make.

And a lot of times people say things out of their own emotion, their own uncomfortableness, their own what they wish they had, whatever. I can't comment too much on that, but I can comment on you have the freedom to do what you want to do. And in this season, if you want to stay home and take care of your five-year-old, you have the freedom to do that. And if you decide that that's, you're going to do that until she's 18, you can do that. And then if you decide, hey,

There's some things I want to go out and pursue. You can do those things as well. So I think what I'm hearing the most, John, is a lot of these outside voices trying to kind of creep in and tell you what you need to be doing and how you need to be living your life. And here's your stock answer. Yeah, I'm not doing anything till after the new year.

I'm making no decisions. And that's not financially irresponsible? No. God, no. For what? You have $4 million in a paid-for house. And that stuff is on... It's on set it and forget it because you're drawing the dividends on it. You likely don't need to move anything.

And when you sit with a smart investor pro, they're going to say, hey, everything's going to be fine right now. Let's exhale. Let's get through the grief. And you, like most people, are realizing how much paperwork there is, how much filing. There's a whole job to do after somebody you love passes away, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Not to mention, you're clearly having to grieve alone because the vultures started circling two days after the funeral was over. You don't need any of those people in your life. And I'm telling you this as someone, like, listen, you're going to have guilt because you didn't grow up with very much, right? And you're going to have brothers and sisters calling you like, well, you need to, all that nonsense. Yeah.

They don't get a vote. I want you to repeat that line in your head. They don't get a vote. And if somebody presses you, you need to be, listen, I'm not doing anything until 2026. Right now, I'm going to get through this fall, this summer. I'm going to get through this fall semester. I'm going to grieve. I'm probably going to see a counselor. I'm going to meet with some professionals to deal with this estate issue.

I'm not getting a job. I don't need to get a job because my husband set us up amazing. I gave up my career. So, man, we're so grateful that you're with us. We'll be with you every step of the way. You hang in there, okay? ♪♪♪

Scripture and quote of the day, Matthew 634, one of my favorites. Don't worry about tomorrow because tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. On first glance, that kind of sounds kind of sad, but it actually is very helpful to just take it one day at a time. Because that's the only thing you can control. Yeah, for sure. Well, Jordan Peterson said, if you fulfill your obligations every day, you don't need to worry about the future. All right.

I'll take it. Listen, I don't just take it as it must be wise because someone said it. I like to think about it and marinate on it for a minute and see if it really is wise. Okay. Connor's in Houston, Texas. What's up, Connor? H-Town. What's up, Connor? Hey, not much. How are you guys? Doing all right.

So I think I may be one of the few where we're thinking about taking some of the credit card debt that we've built up over a couple years and consolidating that under a HELOC, which I understand is a popular topic. You're one of the few who what?

It may be a good idea for me, particularly just with the context, but obviously I'm here for y'all's opinion on it. I would love to hear why you are the unicorn.

You are an Astros fan, which of course makes you a unicorn. But I want to know what makes you a unicorn in this mathematical situation. Yeah, so just a little bit of context. I'll be quick. You know, 30 years old, married, no car loans. We've owned our home for about five years. I'm a commercial real estate broker, kind of in my third or fourth year.

starting to make pretty decent money. You know, it's a tough kind of sled up for those first couple of years and

And we racked up about $32,000 in credit card debt. Holy smokes. Yeah, some of that was kind of emergency stuff on the pet side. And just kind of... Okay. What? Oh, yeah. It's a long story. The pet side? What is the pet side? Fido needed a root canal. Fido almost died. Oh, no.

Bro, how much did you spend? I just got to know. Oh, boy. All in all, it was about $12,000. It was about $12,000. And it was kind of in for a penny, in for a pound. But, yeah. What is that? I'm hurt. How poetic. What does that mean? Well, he had trouble breathing, and we kind of checked him into the emergency room, which

which was unbelievably expensive you know on oxygen so the first night was five grand they did a test to figure out what was wrong with him and pretty much found the cure of what we need to do in terms of antibiotics and so i'm you know you're in you're in seven thousand dollars yeah just like that um right and it's like okay i know the cure i'm not gonna let him die uh how old is fido

He's nine, nine. What kind of, just, I'm curious. Now we're curious. What kind of breed is he? What is he?

A mutt, you know, a lab kind of mutt, big muscular dude. Okay, so here's what we've derived. You guys kind of have this thought that if something pops up, we can put it on the credit card, and that's gotten you $32,000 of debt. And now the thought is, hey, this feels like a lot to deal with it. Let's just sweep it under the rug. And by under the rug, we mean roll it into a...

HELOC rolling in the mortgage. To some extent. I mean, I think we just, you know, we think it's a more efficient use of the capital. Stop it! Connor, Connor! You're like a chat GPT in these words. It's a pound of flesh for a penny of a pony with a frog on a horse and a box of farts to do. What are you talking about? What do you mean? Like use of capital. Yeah.

Well, let me explain it. So I'm just doing rough math. The interest rates on these credit cards is like 25%. Our minimum monthly payment across three cards is roughly $800. I get it. And again, the plan is –

You wouldn't have put $12,000 on a credit card. If you cared about math, you wouldn't have accumulated $32,000 on credit cards with high interest rates. Do you see what I'm saying? So now that it serves your purpose of moving the debt, not paying it off, but moving it, now we're starting to do math. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah.

So I want to just, I'm just making the call out. What I really would say as your buddy and as your two best friends that you called in to talk to on the radio, the best solution here, the debt is the problem. Let's just pay it off. You said, you know, you're moving on up in the real estate game and you're starting to make some good money. What's your income, you and your wife combined? Yeah.

This year it'll be $230,000. Why are we talking? Pay this off. It's done in six months. No, it's done in three months.

Which is the plan. I think the caveat here is we want to maintain some liquidity just from the typical nature. No, you don't. No, you don't. You want to keep your lifestyle as it is. Yes, that's it. You want to keep going out. You want to keep going to Stroh's games all summer, and you don't want to pay the piper. You got to pay this man. Bro, you're talking three months. Yeah, I agree. Listen, I promise you. I promise you. You're going to put this on a HELOC.

And your air conditioner is going to go out in the end of August. And y'all are going to be right back where you started. And now that you have an off-ramp, you're going to be like, hey, dude, we can just exit here. And you're going to take that off-ramp again. I promise you. If y'all suck it up and blow a summer paying off these last bills... Mm-hmm.

You will get in that muscle memory, which is we will never borrow money ever again, which means actually you're going to spend, like Jade said, six months because you can put three months worth of retained earnings or in your words, capital in an account. So you can serve as your own bank. So you never pay interest again. Yeah. Do you guys have any money saved making that income?

Yeah, I just hit my goal of like six months of cash, so about $40,000. And then we have a good nest egg in the stock market. Okay, today. Today, Connor. Debt free. Today, pay it off. Okay, we have our math whiz here on the phone, though. So how much are you making on this $40,000? The $40,000 is in the bank account right now. How much are you making on it? Is it in a high yield? Yeah.

No, it's just in my checking account. Okay, so if we're doing math, you're borrowing that money at 30% or 27% against those credit cards. Yeah. And even if you pay it off and roll it into your mortgage, what's your mortgage at right now? Exactly. About...

$1,200 a month. I mean, it's really low. No, what's your APR? Your interest rate, bud. Oh, just about 3%. Okay, so you're borrowing money in the bank at 3%. Yeah. That's bad math.

- Yeah. - You have the money. - You got it. - And you're gonna have 10 grand leftover in cash. You'll have that back in two months. - And now you're not paying a credit card payment. So how quickly could you stack back up that savings? - Two months. - Yeah, just like that. - Relatively quickly, but you know, I get paid

Every two months, every month, every six months. Why do you not want to be debt-free? Yeah. Why do you not? I think we're asking the wrong questions, Jade. Why do you love a HELOC so much? Why do you think, you know what, I'm going to put my house on the block a second time? I think I just...

The plan was to have it paid off by next year, this time, June of next year. You have the money, but why would you meander through this debt at such a slow pace when you can do it literally immediately? You could go on your phone right now and pay it in the time that we're on this call. And you still have $10,000. Yeah.

I think it's just PTSD of two years of making no money and getting to my goal of having that cash. And it's sitting there. It's a blankie. Just pay it off. It's a warm blanket. It's a warm blanket. We get that. Totally get it. You know what? We tell people when you're getting out of debt to go down to $1,000. Every time I tell somebody that, that's painful. It gets my heart rate up because I remember those days.

And it makes you work like a maniac to get it paid off and to never borrow again. And then the math is going to check out for you, Connor, because right now you think you have $40,000, but you only have $8,000. And you're loaning the rest of it out at...

And you're paying 30% on it or 27% on it. So you're not living in reality right now. You think you have $40,000 minus the debt. You really only have $8,000 to your name that's yours anyway. So you might as well suck up the truth of that and pay the debt off. Pay it off. And then stack up your money and actually have $40,000 of debt. Pay it off, pay it off, pay it off. Pay it off, pay it off, pay it off. You'll like Fido a lot more if you're not paying that off for a year. That's a good word, John. ♪

Hey, you guys, I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsey Show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey 101 YouTube playlist.

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So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube playlist. Copy it. Text it. Send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I thought this might help. Because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One share. One playlist.

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