Don’t Become a Victim of Your Circumstances
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Hey guys, if you're ready to get ahead with money and start building wealth this year, don't miss our free Take Control of Your Money live stream. It's on January 23rd, and you could win $4,000 just for signing up. You got nothing to lose. Go sign up right now at ramseysolutions.com slash live stream. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, America. This is where we coach you to win in your life. We want you to win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships.

The phone number to jump in today is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Alongside George Camel, who's looking natty and he's looking sharp, man. Thank you. The apparel today, the corduroy coat. Well, we got a big event tonight, Ken, so I had to pull out all the stops. That's right. Our live stream tonight. It's in the lobby right now. Rehearsals are happening as we speak. I hope everyone listening joins us.

Oh, I like that too. If you're listening to the show right now, you have no excuse not to join us. It's free. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash live stream and you'll be entered to win some cash. What if they have plans tonight? Well, they can always re-watch it, but if we sign up, we'll send you all the info. We'll get the email to you, the replay, all that good stuff, and you'll be entered to win. That's what I want to make sure of is that they can be a part of that. I'm Ken Coleman, by the way, and we're here together for you today.

George will lead out on those money calls, and I want to help you on the income side of things, and we'll work together. So let's get to it, George. You ready to go? I'm pumped. All right. Portland, Oregon is where we're going to start. Charles is there. Charles, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? Hey, so I'm about 10 months away from graduating college. I want to become a state trooper immediately after I graduate, and this would require that...

I move, the estate would have the final say of where I would have to move. And my girlfriend, who really likes her job, I'm trying to get her on the same page. You guys have any advice? Where is she right now? Like, I get the same page thing, but what's the actual conversation, the latest status as to her emotion, her openness? Give us a better picture. Yeah, so we live together. She's super, super supportive of the idea of becoming an estate trooper.

Um, but again, she really likes her job. So leaving, uh, our town that we live in is, uh, she's not excited about it, but I think she is willing to do it for about two years. Oh, she gave you an ultimatum two years.

Um, that, that's how long, uh, the state would require that I stay in one spot. Aha. And then after two years, would you have the flexibility or the freedom to say, all right, we want to move back to the town you're in now? Yes, sir. Yeah. That's how, uh, yeah, you can request your transfer after two years. Well, listen, um, I've been married almost 27 years.

Based on what I'm hearing, it feels like she is on the same page. She's not thrilled about it, but she's willing. And I think that willingness, she gets to determine willing, you know, and it sounds like she is unless I'm missing something. Yeah, I think you're totally right. So then take it. So it's almost like you needed some confidence today. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, listen.

The more you waver with her willingness, it could affect her willingness. And so in this situation, the fact that you're a young couple, you're engaged to be married, you guys are playing house already. Have you proposed yet?

I have not proposed, but it's in the works. I must have seen the word. I just assumed that. Thank you, George, for correcting that. But I just think the fact that she said, all right, I'm willing to do it for the two years. She's not thrilled about it. This is a sacrifice that couples have to learn to make. And I would tell you there will be a season or two or three, who knows how many seasons that you're going to have to sacrifice for her as well.

So this is a good woman on the surface here that she's willing to do this because she really likes what she does.

And to the extent that you can be supportive of her and help her figure out, how can I do something that's very similar to the work that I love right now in this new town? That would be great, too. But, George, I would not waffle on her willingness. I would say, OK, thank you, sweetheart. Let's go. Two years from now, we come back. What do you think? I'm in for this plan. I'm just I'm wondering, does she need you financially? Are you supporting her in any way or are your finances completely separate?

Yeah, so right now we live together in an apartment, and she works full-time. And I'm getting supported by a 529 plan because I am a student. Okay. So you need her more than she needs you. She has money. Okay. I'm just wondering, you know, how far away is this new town you'd be moving to? Is it 45 minutes or five hours? It totally depends on what the state says. I...

Um, I haven't gone through the process yet of... Okay. There's a lot of unknowns. So what I would do is say, hey, I don't know where I'm going to end up. What are you thinking when this does happen?

Are you going to live on your own and stay here for a while for a season? And we try that out. And if it becomes too unbearable, then you can move closer. Or do you want to wait it out till I'm stationed, planted somewhere, and then we figure it out? I don't know that I'd drag her with the ultimatum of you're either coming with me or it's over to this new phase because who knows what's going to happen?

You know, we hear the stories of people who move for a significant other they're not married to and things don't work out. And now there's extra resentment because she moved for your job that didn't pan out and now it affected her career and her life. But I don't sense that. I don't sense that that's happening because he's calling us. He already has the green light. From her to say, sure, I'll go. Am I right? It's a reluctant I'll go. I think Charles is a little bit scared. Should I do this? Is that right, Charles?

Yes, sir. I love her very much, and I really...

I want her to be very happy. Well, the fact is she's a good woman and you're a good dude. The reason that you're thinking through this is because you really do have a sense of the compromise that she's making. And I think George is right. I think you guys as a couple need to figure out what our future is. You need to put a ring on her finger soon, and you guys need to start playing this out. What does this look like? What kind of money does she need to make? What's the job market look? She's got a head start on this.

So the fact that we have a general idea of what she loves helps. What we don't know is your location. And when will you know that? Before I start the academy. So I'll graduate with my bachelor's in about 10 months. And then I'll be working on the application process in my last quarter. So I'm trying to figure out what her... About a year lead time on this? How much lead time will she have when you can say to her, hey, we're moving to this town?

So, yeah, I'll know before the academy and the academy is about 16 weeks. Okay. So, you know, not it's not a six month lead time, but it's enough time to do some work and figure this out.

And I think that you guys got to start this marriage with this, hey, we are going to bend together so that we don't break. And she's showing a willingness to bend. And so you want to help her get back into the work that she loves, return that favor. And I think if you do this with a lot of sensitivity, but also with confidence.

then I think you guys will be okay. Sensitive confidence. That's how I've always thought about you, Ken. Well, I'm trying to get to the sensitive part. I'm working on it, George. Do you know what I'm saying? There's an element of, hey, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. If you live apart for six months, you're going to survive. And so if it's 40 minutes away, she doesn't need to uproot her whole life and job for this for a season.

That's kind of where I'm going. I agree, but they may be married. So if they're married, she's coming with them. I'd hope so. I think within these 10 months, let's figure out a plan. Let's put a ring on it. I'm expecting him to put a ring on her finger. And at this point, we're moving together and starting the life off that way. But anyway, appreciate the call, Charles. I think you're a good young man. And appreciate the fact that you want to serve your state. Yeah.

And if I ever get pulled over in the Oregon area, I hope Charles is there. I hope so, too. Don't give me a ticket. Sir, if I need a chance, is your name Charles? Yeah, I like that. All right, quick break here on The Ranger Show. We'll be right back. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or down?

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman. Excited that you all are joining us today. 888-825-5225. Let's get back to the phones. Timothy is joining us in Erie, Pennsylvania. Timothy, how can we help? Hi, Ken. How are you guys? We're having a blast today. What's going on with you?

It's great, man. Well, I appreciate everything you guys do. I've been phoning you since I was 18. I just turned 19 not too long ago. So I'm freaking out right now. Uh-oh. What are you freaking out about? Uh,

Everybody likes to share a little bit of details of their input on life and everything that's going on. And I'm really, really, really trying to get a place to live. I'm going to be proposing to my girl soon. So I'm trying to figure out whether I'm renting or buying. I'd really like to buy, but I'm trying to follow you guys as much as I can. And I don't want to have a credit score or a credit card, but I've called two places and they've given

given me two different answers. I've tried with Churchill and there's just a lot going on. So some advice would be great. Yeah. You got, my guess is you get some, uh, you get some cooks in the kitchen that are on the family side and friend side weighing in as well as my guess. Yeah. Okay. What is the urgency to buy a house now at 19? Yeah.

Yeah, like I said, I'm proposing to my girl soon, so that's the main one. I mean, I have like a year to figure this all out, but I'm just trying to figure out. Is there a law in Pennsylvania that says you can't rent if you're married? No, there's no law. No, no, I just don't know. Like, I want to be putting as much as I can into savings, right? So I don't know if I should be, how long I should be renting for if I should. Like, I know I'm okay to do that, but.

Let me free you. There's no timeline for this. The right time to buy a house is when you're financially ready. If that's at 19, you're crushing it. If that's at 25, you're crushing it. And so I just want to free you from this idea that this has to happen now and I've got to propose in the next two months and I have to buy a house five months later. I can feel that on you of just the aggression toward your goals. And I want to redirect that towards a healthier approach. Yeah. And Timothy, just full disclosure, my wife and I spent three years

uh in an apartment one in one city two in another city before we bought and and it was because of what george said we were renting until we were able to buy a home so tell us about your financial situation sounds like you're debt free yeah yeah i'm debt free i'm working for an amazing company that they'll pay for me to go to school if i want to um i'm going to pursue a career in like uh i'm adjusting and i'll pay for me to do that too so great um what's your income uh

My income right now is about like $35,000. I work two jobs. I work at a restaurant. Okay. And how much do you have in savings? In savings right now, I have about $15,000 in my regular savings fund, and then I have $4,000 in retirement and a couple thousand in my emergency fund. Okay. What's the $15,000 for? Is that for a ring or...

Other stuff? No, that's just for the house. I actually have a fund for Ring. Okay, but you don't have a fully funded emergency fund. We got this twisted. We got to get the emergency fund first, then we can start saving for the house. Okay. So how much would a three to six months... Yeah, what's three to six months of expenses for you? Right now, I know it's lower, but I mean, right now it's...

About like $1,000 and some change a month. Okay. Well, let's pretend like we're in the real world. You've got rent to pay. You've got bills. As you move into this next phase, let's call it $15,000 as your emergency fund, and you have $4,000 for your down payment. Is that more fair? Sure. We could do that. And we also need to buy a ring for this lovely lady, right? Right. But he says he's got a ring fund. How much is in that? Yeah.

Yeah, I've been saving up for that one for a while. I have about like $3,000 ready for that. Perfect. That's all ready to go. You're crushing it. Okay. So if I was in your shoes and I've been in your shoes, here's what I would do. I would pause and I would rent.

maybe it's for a year maybe you renew for two years and you stack up a nice big down payment as you get to be married and experience all of that joy and chaos because it's going to be a wild ride so to add on home ownership on top of that that's a lot at your age but i love where you're going with it and i also know you don't have a credit score because you're debt free and you're saying are you worried about not being able to buy a house because of that

Yeah, I'm terrified. I like they there's, you know, I mean, I keep hearing stuff like people keep telling me like higher interest rates for, you know, even though I can do manual underwriting, but then they'll be like, yeah, I expect higher interest rates. Okay, can I ask you this? Have any of them actually done it? No. Okay. Can I tell you this? I've actually done it. So would you trust my experience over theirs?

Georgia, I trust you any day. That means the world. Yeah. So let me tell you this. There are a few hoops to jump through, one being verification of income. You have that for 12 to 24 months? Yeah, coming up on it. Great. You'll need rental payment history, on-time rental payments for at least 12 months. You'll have that once you've rented, right? Okay. You have a 12-month history of your bank statements and saving statements. Your debt-to-income ratio is amazing because you don't have any.

And then you have something else you're paying for, like a cell phone bill or an insurance bill regularly? Yeah, insurance. Great. That's all it takes to do manual underwriting. So anyone else who's saying otherwise has not done it. And if you call Churchill, I'm sure they told you that. They said, hey, you do need on-time rental payments. Was that the one that threw you off because you didn't have that?

Yeah, yeah. And they suggested what I could do is I could pay a little bit of money. I have a track record to my mom and dad. Exactly. You could pay your parents $400 a month for 12 months, and that could count. And so just rest assured...

It's not as scary as you think. The rains aren't going to be astronomically higher. I've done it myself. I had a great rate when I did this back in 2019. It was a very easy process. Churchill makes it super easy. They'll walk you through everything you need to know. But I would not let that be the stress point. You got enough on your plate right now. I would continue saving. I'd propose, get married, pay cash for the wedding, retire.

rent for a year or two, and then you guys will have a fat stack of money and you'll be able to do it from a place of strength. And the key there, Timothy, is what George just laid out for you. The time it's going to take to save up the down payment, the right kind of down payment, you're going to have all of those qualifications taken care of. So deep breath, exhale, and don't listen to all the voices that want to throw an opinion at you. George just gave you the absolute truth about

There is no other opinion you need to be considering. Period. Okay. You got it? Yeah. Would you recommend what they were saying with like, you know, living at home for a little bit and then giving them money? Or would you say like, get on my own?

I would, I mean, you're, you have a salary. I'd say it's, it's healthy and independent for you to get on your own. If you want to stay home until you have the next step of proposal or engagement, that's totally fine. But I would start making payments to your parents just so that you're not caught off guard, you know, come six months from now. But I do think it's going to take more time to get a down payment, you know?

15 grand is not going to cut it in today's housing market. And so we've got tons of resources for you, Timothy. Log on to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate. We have an entire home hub for you there. And I'll even give you Ramsey Plus, which will include my video course on how to buy a home the right way. And watch that. You can watch it with your soon-to-be fiance and go, hey, this is going to be

on our radar in the next few years. I'd love to watch this and get prepared and see what you think of it. And Timothy, the only thing I'd add is I don't want you to take some of this nervous energy and let's put it into making more money. You're working two jobs and pulling down $35,000. I want to see that change.

You need to be getting more money for your time. And so put all that energy into increasing your income right now. You have everything else under control, and that focus on making more money will help with your nerves. George gave you a lot of clarity.

And the clarity that George gave you should give you confidence now, right? So we want confident Timothy going out there. He's got a plan. And let's go make more money because more money allows us to advance the plan quicker. That'll increase your savings rate. That's right. Help you get that down payment faster. That's right. So it's a great call, Timothy. Thank you for that question. You're far beyond most Americans at 19, so I want to encourage him there.

And to that, the interest rate question. My interest rate. I actually ran the numbers with the folks at Churchill. And they told me, if you do our plan, 15-year fixed rate loan with at least 10% down, you will get the same rate as someone with excellent credit. So he disproved it with facts. But, you know, people don't care about facts in the face of their feelings a lot of the times. Well...

It's just people don't know what they're talking about. And so that's why they come here and George just dispels the fake news, folks. Buck the system. I'm all about it. There it is. That's why he wrote the best-selling book, Breaking Free from Broke. Go get it. Listen to the man. He's wearing corduroy. That's credibility. That's all you need to know. It's all the credibility you need. All right, quick break. More of the Ramsey Show coming right up.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And

And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Terrifying. You're going to have a crisis here. You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. These are the two options. Yeah.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. What are your money questions? You need to know what to do with it. You need to make more of it. Well, you got the duo today. We want to help you make more money and keep it. Let's go to New York City where Rob joins us. Rob, how can we help today?

Hey guys, appreciate you taking my call. I guess I've got kind of like a decent problem to have, but it's kind of a problem nonetheless. I think I've kind of been, I'm 25, I've saved about like 200 grand. I don't know what for, and I'm making about like 120 a year. Yeah.

But I kind of like, I kind of like live like a rat because I don't eat too much. Like every time I move, I get a place with a cheaper rent and then I've gotten promoted every year I've been there and I make more money. But for me, it's kind of like, I've been very removed from the present. I feel like I, I don't know why I'm saving the money. I don't, I'm kind of from out in sticks. I don't really like New York city. Like I like fishing and eating wild plants and stuff. Like,

I kind of don't have much reason to be in New York, but it's like a really good job. Yeah. But I'm not present, and I don't... Oh, Rob, I feel you. I'm so glad you called today. I feel like I walked into the studio today in large part to get to talk to you. Oh, word. Man, this is, first of all, kudos. The first half of your description of you, George, is like you're the poster child for George.

But then you start talking about eating wild plants and fishing, and then you lost him. But the fact that you've saved $200,000 at 25, George. You haven't let lifestyle creep crush you. I love that. You've stayed a very sane person. That's right. And you're self-aware enough at 25 to go, this ain't it. Most people, Rob, it takes 20, 30 years of a career to finally admit that. So I'm proud of you. So Rob, you're a young guy. You may never have heard this phrase before.

But I'm going to introduce it to you because I think it's a great metaphor for where you are. There's an old phrase called the golden handcuffs, and it's referring to somebody who had been in a company for a long time. They make good money. They got great benefits, strong retirement.

and they don't want to be there, but they feel the golden handcuffs because it's good money, and there's an emotional handcuff there that says, if I were to leave this, it would be foolish. Those who don't have what I have would think that I'm crazy. And I think you're experiencing that rarely enough at the age of 25. Does that feel right to you? Yeah, exactly. And you guys also mentioned the term lifestyle creep, but for me it's kind of like...

Maybe I should have, and I can be a little bit more present. I think you should probably enjoy life a little bit more. But the good news is George is on today, and George can speak to that. Because I am, in a fun way, I play with you a little bit on this because George does very well. But he really is the most frugal person, and he will say things sometimes in conversation. We sit right next to each other.

And he will say things sometimes where I literally look at you and I go, bro, like you've earned it. Live a little bit. So I want you to speak to that mindset in a minute. But I want to first focus on this biggest issue. Rob, you don't need George and I's permission today. But I think you need to hear us say it is okay for you to leave New York in a really good paying job.

to go do something somewhere else that is more in line with the way you want to live, and you can still make that $120K and more. And I think just acknowledging that, I hope, will set you free today. That doesn't mean you leave today, and it doesn't mean you walk in and resign and just go, whee! But if there's anybody who could, you could, because you got $200,000 in the bank. That's financial peace right there. And so my question is, what's the work that you're doing? What field are you in?

So I work in like financial services. I work in risk management at one of like the brokers in the city. Very, very prestigious is my guess. I do.

Yeah, and that's like another thing. It's like, you know, that probably attracted me to it. And I do like my job. Like I actually, as far as jobs go, like I enjoy it, but I also kind of burn myself out. Again, I kind of like pathologize the kind of like live to work thing. Well, you know why? You know why? You're trying to prove something to somebody.

Probably to myself. There you go. Hey, by the way, the voice in our head is the most damaging. Hardest person to please. So here's what I would say in short order. You enjoy doing work in the finance field. So there are lots of ways you can do that somewhere else where you're close to fishing, where you're in an environment that you enjoy and the hobbies and the things that you need to be healthy distractions from this environment.

This voice that you're dealing with that says, I've got to prove, I've got to prove, I've got to prove. And boy, you're talking to a guy who is currently in recovery from that kind of stuff. Okay? I'm as serious as I can be. I get it. I've been living my life with a chip on my shoulder because of something that happened to me when I was 14.

I relate to that. Listen, I'm in the middle of recovery. I'm being as vulnerable as I can be. I'm uncomfortable right now, James, how vulnerable I'm being. But Rob, so what has helped me is to go, wait a second, there's this voice in my head that is constantly asking, am I good enough?

So I don't know what your voice is, but I think at this stage of your life at 25, the fact that you resonated with something that I said and it's in your story and I'm not going to unpack that on the air, I think you know what it is. But can I tell you, I would go get some therapy and dig on that now at 25. And I think that will be the bridge that you build mentally and emotionally that will lead you out of New York alive.

leads you to where you need to be and doing similar work that you're doing. And I think you'll be more fulfilled than you can ever imagine.

George, I want you to weigh in on that because you also have a unique point of view. And I think you resonate with this as well. As you guys are talking, Rob, I think you've got somewhat of a flat tire. Your financial life and your career life, you're crushing it. I would assume, prove me wrong, that relationships may be struggling. Social life might be struggling. Spiritual life might be struggling. And I think leaning more into those areas right now can help you realize, oh, I actually like New York. I like this job. I just needed a better community.

I need to get plugged into a local church. I don't know what that is for you, but I realized that at 25, you kind of have this quarter-life crisis of like, what did I, I just followed this path that was laid before me, and here I am, and they told me it would be amazing, and it's not. That's great insight. You know, that's a great insight, Rob. Maybe it's not New York. Maybe it's just you and functioning in New York, but just for a fun exercise.

Uh, if you could snap your fingers right now and you're doing similar work and you're making similar money with a nice path to making more money, is there any place in the U S that you would just go? Okay. If I could transplant from where I am to here, Ken, I think that would be a fun adventure to see if that was awesome. What comes to mind?

So my favorite states are like Vermont and Maine. Um, I, the thing is like, I think I could go like an hour up the train line from New York and be like, I've been up to like Tarrytown and like Sleepy Hollow up there. And it's awesome. Like it's trees and rivers, all that junk, um, not junk, but all that stuff. And, um, my, my, my concern is like, do I overdo it or underdo it? So I felt like I've been not present for like,

five years after college or four years, whatever. And now I'm kind of like, do I like yo-yo and like live in a van for a year and like start a YouTube channel and go fishing? No, no, here's the deal. So, so Rob, the answer is never to yo-yo. And when any of us yo-yo, we're not healthy. And never YouTube in the RV, please. Yeah. Just keep it to yourself. You know what I think you ought to do? And I'm going to be super, super practical here, George.

Please. Tell me what you think. I think you need to spend a weekend. You got all kinds of money. I'd like to see you rent a cabin up there in Sleepy Hollow and see if you can find Ichabod Crane while you're up there. You know, the headless horseman, the whole nine yards. Go full hatchet, full castaway for a long weekend. Yeah, go fish, go hunt.

And practice this idea of being present. I think you self-diagnose pretty well, George. I think he knows he's not present, and I think he needs to feel something. And that's when you see, is scratching the itch enough, or is this a full-time move? I need to get out of this city completely forever. That's right. And we can't decide that for you, Rob, but I hope we've given you enough next tactical steps to get there. Yeah. Rob, listen to your heart.

I'm just telling you, listen to your heart. Listen to your heart. And then engage the brain. The logic, it can move on its own, but the heart and the head must be connected on big moves like this. But I think you're a sharp young man, and I think you're going to do great things. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. Let's go to Jessica, who is joining us in Knoxville, Tennessee, just on the other side of the state. Jessica, how can we help? How do I insulate...

and separate myself from my husband who has a massive spending addiction. Oh no. Can you describe that briefly to us? Yeah, it's super easy. He spends and spends and spends. He has had to empty his four

401k three times to pay off debt that he has accrued. He takes out consolidation loans without my consent. He bought a car without my consent. The payment for that is almost $1,000 a month. Oh my goodness. And it just goes and goes and goes. How long has this been happening? Oh, years. And

And this entire time you have always said, stop doing this. I'm not in favor of this. This scares me. Yep. He has no concept of it. Have you guys been to therapy? Yep. And? And he won't go. Well, then you haven't been. Do you go on your own? So I've been going, and then I started doing the snowball method.

So I have been spending the last five years, like doing anything that's associated with me. And I have like simultaneously been paying off and saving. Um, and I've paid off so far $31,751 and 84 cents. I have, um,

$19,391.17 in cash saved. Do you have separate accounts? Yes. $9,608.14 in investment saved. And I have $6,005.43 left in debt, like on credit cards. Pay off your debt today with the money you have.

Okay. And do you have any debt that's in your name beyond that, or is the rest in his name only? The rest is only in his name. Okay. So that's going to be his problem. But my fear is always the stuff that he's buying, like cars and all this stuff, because they were obtained during marriage. Am I going to get stuck with these? Your name's not on there, so you're not going to be liable for that loan.

Okay. So here's the deal. You've already separated finances. This is heading clearly towards divorce because I can't. Does he know this? I've already explained this to him. Is he in la-la land? Like, does he shut down when you bring any of this up? Yes. Okay. He thinks that because he is the breadwinner and he makes all the money and because I'm on disability that he should be able to spend whatever he wants whenever he wants.

So he doesn't understand that his decisions affect you financially, emotionally, maritally. Okay. He's made that very clear on where he stands, and he's not going to change. And he's not participating in therapy. So I think we've got some real clear gates that you have walked through here, and I think certainly separation is of order here to see if there's a wake-up call. And that's what I mean. I've gone through therapy. Like, I've been doing therapy. So, like...

That's not, this is not like I need to go to therapy. I need to like. Oh, no, I'm sorry. You're right. I think, yeah. But I was, when I asked that question, I was talking about you two as a couple to see if we've actually fought for this.

And you can't do it for him. I know, you can't do it for him. And it's to the, you know, that whole you can lead a horse to water. Can't make him drink. So we're past that part. So I've just been trying to figure out, like, how do I separate and insulate myself from that? And then with what I have saved and what I have, like, investment-wise, like,

In theory, I know that a judge or whatever would maybe do some type of spousal support, but I know that's not guaranteed and it's not for forever. But I have an income of $1,054 a month from disability. And that's my question. Does your disability prohibit you from being able to make a steady income?

I think I can make like $600 a month or something. Why? Because you'll lose the disability payment? Disability. How much is the disability payment? Hold on a second. But you missed my question, Jessica. I'm saying...

Is there an end to this physical challenge that you will be able to get through through medical care, or is this a, I'm trying to understand what you can actually do? Forget the benefit payment. Oh, no, it's permanent disability. So you are unable to work from home, do a remote job, and work 40 hours a week? Correct.

Okay. That's what I wanted to understand. So you've got a, this is George, this is a fixed and a very low fixed income. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Like I've had five separate spine surgeries, like just that part of me. I'm so sorry. Like I'm a mess. So sorry, Jessica. And I've accepted that. So.

I wish I could have my rose-colored glasses on and tell you the three steps to solving all of this. I can't change people. I don't have the magic wand. And so if you've made it very clear of, hey, this is what it's going to take for this marriage to work, and he's unable to fulfill that, I would be talking to an attorney and figuring out how do I at least protect myself? How do I begin a phase of separation so that you don't get dragged down with him? And I would say, Jessica, George told you, I hope you caught it.

Pay off the debt today, your debt. Go ahead and do that. I know that cash is very attractive sitting in that savings account, but one of the best things you can do to protect yourself on a very low fixed income is to have no debt.

So I'm glad she has that, right, George? Yeah. That's what we want. We want saving grace quickly. Get that out now before your brain talks you out of it. Reduces your expenses so that you're going to be able to hopefully survive off of your fixed income, even if there isn't spousal support. That's where I would go sit down and make a budget for yourself based on here's what my expenses would be if I was doing this on my own. Yeah, man. So sorry. Tough, tough call.

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All right. Today's question comes from Camilla in Hawaii. My husband and I are on baby steps four and six. We have no kids. He's in the military and I'm a lawyer. Our gross annual income is $250,000 and we have no debts except our mortgage of $350,000.

We have a fully funded emergency fund and we invest 15% of our income and we still have $3,000 left over at the end of every month. Is it a mistake to put all the extra money towards paying off the house early? I'm wondering if we should be investing a portion of it and taking a more balanced approach. Now that's a fun question of the day, isn't it? Really fun. So here's the deal. Do you have to throw every single penny at the house? No. Baby steps four and six, you're moving from intensity to intentionality.

I'm a nerd. I might be throwing all of it towards the house. Oh, it's a no question. If that's you, every dime is going. But you also might want to go, we haven't taken a vacation in five years. We should probably save up for that. So what I would do is set up sinking funds for things that you actually enjoy, like a vacation. Or, hey, it's really time to upgrade that car. We're in four and six. We make 250 grand. We don't have any debt with the mortgage.

Let's enjoy life and upgrade a little bit with a reasonable approach. And that's where the sinking funds in the budget and planning for that fund money help me let loose of the reins of, I got to pay all, every penny should be going towards this. You don't need to live like you're on fire because nothing's on fire here. But I would set a goal and say, hey, if we put...

A grand extra on the mortgage will be done with this five years early. Let's make that a goal. The extra two grand, let's put towards these other things for now. And you can always change it as you enter different seasons of life. A quick follow-up question for new folks that are joining us all the time. We have so many people joining us all the time that are new to the show, George. When you say sinking funds...

Are those separate savings accounts or is it all just clearly earmarked in one savings account? I like to set them up separately. So there's a car savings account and we're going to put 500 bucks a month into that account. That helps delineate it so you don't go, oh, there's a big pile of money for Lord knows what. And you don't have to have an Excel spreadsheet for that when you've got the separate accounts. And you can set it up in your every dollar budget. I love throwing George the questions like that.

I get nervous sometimes. I try to get in the mind of the people. One of these days you're going to catch me, Coleman. I don't think so. I think you're too smart. All right, fun hour. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Just go to Burna.com slash Dave to learn more. That's B-Y-R-N-A dot com slash Dave. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Cole and George Camel is alongside, and we are here to help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. Chris is going to start us off in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Chris, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for having me on the show. So recently, my in-laws have moved back in with us for a second time. They've made plenty of poor financial decisions and, you know, again, wound themselves back up living with us again as of the beginning of this month. And we're kind of trying to figure out what we can do to, you know, we tried helping them and

They don't really want our help. What was the attempt? Describe the attempt to help. Yeah. So without providing any financial, um, you know, help to them, we have offered to sit down and help them with the budget. My wife and I have taken the financial peace courses. Um, we're trying to, uh, they did actually say they're going to attend it with me as we are going to reattend it again. So they're interested in it. We'll see if it happens. Um,

I'm in school for finances, so I feel like I'm pretty decent at making a budget, so I'm trying to help them with that. And they shut us down immediately and get pretty upset with us. Why did they shut down? I think it's just they, you know, they've struggled with it for so long, and they don't feel like they need the help, and they can figure it out on their own. Well, then have them move out. Why are you enabling them?

You're right. If they can do it on their own, say, hey, we've been happy to help. Sounds like you guys have it figured out. Best of luck out there. Sometimes that's the best thing you can do for someone, even though it feels harsh in the moment. I agree. And Chris, I have a question. Did they ask to stay with you or did your wife offer?

They, they kind of assumed at first and then my wife finally did offer, but under temporary circumstances of, you know, Hey, we can, we can help you for like a month, get you situated, get you going. Um, so we're still, we're coming up at the end of that month. It doesn't seem like they're going to get out. Um, they recently refinanced a payday loan, refinance their car. Um, are they both working?

My father-in-law works, and his take-home comes out to about $60,000 a year. And so is the mother-in-law able to work? Does she have a past work history? She is able to work, yes. But she's just not. She's just putzing around the house. So it sounds like there really were no conditions of them living here other than, hey, let's aim for a month.

Yeah. I would have a lot of strings attached. When this happened last time, how long did they stay? And was there a same kind of a deal? This is a certain amount of time or did there, was that not the case? Right. So when they moved last time, they kind of followed us when we relocated across, across the state because they wanted to be closer to grandkids. They had a house, they couldn't make payments on it and move at the same time. So they decided just to let it foreclose and, and,

moved in for a couple months so they could find a new place here after their foreclosure of their house. If you said to your wife today, hey, babe, I think I need to be the man of the house. I know they're your parents, but this is I'm the man of the house here. To a lot of people, that may sound archaic, but I'm going to stick with it, George.

And you said to her, I'd like to have a respectful conversation, but say, hey, the month is coming up. We agreed to a month and we think that you guys need to move out. It's best for everybody. And we can't. We've tried to help. You've met it with resistance. And I'm enabling you some form of that speech in Chris's words. If you suggested that to her, how would she react?

Obviously, I think she would be upset in the fact that it's her parents. She doesn't want to just throw them out. But she has come to understand that we're enabling them by doing this. They're not willing to accept our help, even if they were to stay longer, but allow us to help them with a budget so they can get going in the right direction. It wouldn't be as bad. But the fact that they won't even allow us to help, I definitely think she would understand.

understand that. All right. But my point in asking that was if she's not comfortable with you doing it, is she comfortable doing it? And we brought that up and she's, she's getting a lot more comfortable with it. That's what I would do. I'd let her lead, but I would keep saying, babe, I'm here to support. You got to have this conversation. If you're not comfortable, I'll be the bad guy, but you've got to kind of, you really got to keep that thing going. You cannot, cause it's going to end up affecting your relationship.

It probably already has. And so she needs to be leading this. It's her parents. And so for the son-in-law to get involved, it's just too sticky. Unless she's not willing. That's why I threw that out there. It sounds like she knows they're not going to care what she has to say. And so that can be a conversation you guys have together, the four of you, and say, hey, we love you guys.

We want to help you get back on track. Here's what it's going to take. Here's the conditions. We want you to be financially independent. You're going to start paying rent. We're going to show you how to budget. You're going to take FPU. And we're going to help you get out of this thing, but it's not going to be by bailing you out financially. It's by showing you the steps. You've got to be willing to do the work. Otherwise, this situation can't work. I think it's already... Sorry, George, to interrupt. I apologize. I think that things... I want to point this out and tell me if you disagree.

because I want Chris to hear this. I think his wife needs to hear this. I don't see a scenario where this doesn't really ruffle their feathers. It sounds like the parents are like, look, leave us alone. We'll figure it out on our own. Obviously, they don't know how to, and they're not interested in leaving anytime soon.

And there is a sense of entitlement. This is now not an entitled, spoiled teenager. These are entitled adults. That's scarier. Who aren't mature in their finances, and they are leveraging their parental position over their daughter. And I don't see how this goes well. Well, it's unfair. It's manipulative. It's immature. My point is that I think this is a rip the Band-Aid off. Respectfully...

I don't mean like, you know, slash and burn, but I don't see how this goes well at all other than it frees up

Chris and his wife and creates a boundary that needs to be in place. Do you agree with that? Absolutely. I don't think they should be living with them. I understand you guys tried it. You tried to help them once. I think at this point he makes good money. He can figure it out. Rent. He's going to have to figure out these payday loans and you can always be there to support with resources and say, Hey, show up to this course with me, show up to this course, but intermingling them with your personal life in your own house. I think that's not going to work anymore. Yeah. And you know, what's interesting too, uh,

George, what I heard, I appreciate that Chris and his wife wanted to help him do a budget, but you know what? Showing somebody how to do a budget is not enough. If they don't want to do it, no amount of instruction or... They're not experiencing enough pain right now because they're living rent-free. But when you need a roof over your head, mama's going to work. She has no option. Oh, yeah. What is she doing? And so I don't think this is going to lead to them actually living on the streets. It's just going to lead to them saying, all right, we got to figure this out. Hmm.

And asking your kids to bail you out is just a gross injustice to me. You know, I was just sitting here thinking, because I have 19-year-old to 16-year-olds. I don't want my kids coming back to live with me. I love my kids. I'm brokenhearted with my oldest at college for the first time, right? But at the same time, it's natural. It's normal. And I don't want him to come back and live with me. The only thing worse than your kids coming back to live with you are your parents.

Can you imagine if you and Stacey... Unless it's a health situation and you're their caregiver. Let me say, and generationally and different cultures that are going to come at us, Ken, is to go, you don't understand. I get it. But this is a very different situation. That's what I'm talking about. Enabling misbehavior versus living generationally with grandma. Thank you for clarifying that. You bailed me out from all the hate. What I'm saying is if your parents come back to live with you because they can't support themselves financially because of their irresponsibility, that's what I'm saying.

Wow. Not easy. Tough stuff, Chris. But you and your wife, you got the right instincts. Follow them. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited you're with us.

888-825-5225 is the phone number. Let's go to Des Moines, Iowa. Monica is there. Monica, how can we help today? Hello. Thank you for taking my call today. You bet.

I am just extremely worried and hope that you can help me break down what I currently have in retirement to maybe give me some peace of mind that at the age of 67, I may be able to retire frugally. How old are you now? I'm 56. I'll be 57 in April. Okay. Give us the numbers. George has got his handy calculator ready to crunch. Great. Great. Well, I'm going to tell you the salary that I make currently is $47,840. Okay.

I currently have an IRA that has $47,702 in it and I can contribute $200 per month to that IRA.

I have a CD that I locked up for 13 months at 5% interest. It currently has $36,022 in it. I have a Roth IRA in a job I started a year ago. It has $2,581 in that. I am contributing 8% and set it up for a 2% per year increase until I reach 15%.

And then in my savings, I currently have $12,237. I put 20% of each check into that savings account. I do not have any debt. I'm debt-free, but I do not own a home. I went through a divorce in 2018. It took years to pay off my debt to get to where I am now, debt-free. What would be three to six months' expenses for you?

Very minimal because I live with my significant other. He doesn't have a house payment. So I just pay utilities. We split utilities. We split groceries. So, you know, maybe...

Maybe $1,200 a month. Okay, so you have more than three to six months in that savings account with the $12,000. That's what I was trying to get to. Oh, yes. So you're doing 17 things at once, Monica, and none of them are inherently bad. So let me encourage you that you're in a good spot

At 57, being debt-free, you've got a little nest egg going. You've got some savings going. But we're doing like seven things. You've got the CD over here. We've got some savings here. We're doing a little investing here. What's the deal with increasing it from the 8%? Why not just go, I'm going to invest 15% with the Ramsey plan. I'm going to do the Roth accounts and see where I go there.

I am so open to that. That's why I wanted to talk to you today. Okay. I am completely, I live very frugally. The only thing that I spend a decent amount of money on is good organic produce and grass-fed meat. Love it. Look at you. Which means you need more in retirement because you're going to live to be 120 at this rate by eating so healthy. Monica, quick question, George, before you get to your crunching of numbers. Do we expect to marry this significant other?

I would love that, but the significant other is 60 years old and never been married, never had children. I'm working on that. We're both Christians, and I'm not feeling comfortable with the situation that we're currently in. I was going to say. Living and we're not married. I'm not sure what church is good with that situation, Monica. Correct. No judgment here. So working on that. I love that you're working on it.

She's working on it. She's working on a lot of things, Ken. A lot of irons in the fire here. But see, that changes the equation a little bit, George. I wanted you to have that information. That's good to know, because you don't have a mortgage, and you may not ever. What's his income? He is $100,000 a year, but he retires next July. What kind of nest egg does he have?

Um, I think he said he'll be able to, with what he has in his pension and retirement, he'll retire with like 50 or 60,000 a year. So it's not a ton. Yeah. Okay. All right, George, take it away. You guys have separate finances?

Correct. Okay. So I'm going to pretend like this is Monica's situation through retirement, is that she's doing this on her own. Okay? Yeah. So I crunched your current numbers. Here's what I found out. You got 50 grand in retirement accounts. Let's say from 57 to 67, you invest 15%. You never get a raise. It's about $600 a month, right, of your $48,000 salary. And assuming a 10% rate of return, you'd have $258,000.

Now, that's great. That's not enough for me to retire on. I don't know about you. I'd want a bigger nest egg. Yes. So what does that tell us? We need to A, get our income up and savings rate up, and B, we might need to work longer than expected.

Okay. If our body allows us. So you might need to do both of those things, and I would recommend it. Because if we can get your income up, get your investing rate up, have you work a little bit longer, now we can go, okay, we might retire with half a million. The other piece of this equation is you're going to have to pay rent the rest of your life if we don't get into a house with a fixed expense. Okay.

Mm-hmm. And so that's the part that worries me here. I hope you guys are together a long time. I hope you get married because that changes this equation completely. But this idea of you sort of just not having anything, not building towards something at your age, it gives me some pause. Yes. Have you had this conversation with him that just how you feel about your own finances?

Yes. How does he react? And I'm going to tell you, to be honest with you, I have so much anxiety over this that it's been a year that I can barely sleep because it takes the enjoyment out of my life because of this constant fear and worry. Now, I know none of us know about tomorrow, but you still have to have a plan.

Yeah, well, and George is addressing that plan. So when George hits you with that, what is your reaction that you can do tangibly when it comes to income, saving more? What immediately comes to mind? Because you've got to stop worrying and start getting busy.

Part of this challenge is you didn't have a clear vision of what you need to do. George just gave it to you. But now the second thing is we start getting busy. And the busier I am attacking something that is a potential problem, the less I'm worried about it. Do you resonate with that? Yes, I do. Okay, so what can you do tactically coming out of what George just told you? Well, first and foremost, immediately I can increase my Roth to 15%. Good. Maybe get a second job.

Good. Or look for another job with a higher salary. Yeah. Can you make $60,000, $70,000 in your field doing something similar with your experience? I have...

a pretty decent amount in Social Security right now, which probably won't be there. But for years, I made six figures. It's just the rigorous travel and the sales that I was in, I just couldn't deal with it anymore. I was on the road, you know, four nights a week. Who told you there's no sales roles that you could do without traveling all the time?

No one. I get it. You downshifted. I get the downshift, but hey, you downshifted. Now you're on the other side of this and you've got a lot of experience. My guess is your resume is very impressive. Yes. Let's go get it, Monica. You can sell. You are a six-figure earner. Let's go. You want to attack this worry and sleep well at night? Start making some more money and putting more money away. Agreed. Come on, Monica.

Do not let this fear happen to you. You need to happen to it.

Let me tell you something I've learned. I've had the privilege at Ramsey Solutions, not counting the Ramsey show, but on the Ken Coleman show, George, I've coached over 10,000 people. And they're trying to make more money or experience more meaning in work. And Monica, here's what I want you to hear. There's a formula that I've learned. Because people call me and they're paralyzed. Do I take this job? Do I stretch out to this? Do I get a degree? They're trying to figure out what do I do to make my life better through my work. And here's what I've learned, George. You've heard me say this. And Monica, I want you to catch this.

Clarity always breeds confidence. And confidence breeds courage. And I think that's what you need today. And George just gave you tremendous clarity. And you got it. You repeated back exactly what we would want you to do. There's your clarity. Let that clarity, that action plan that you laid out for us so clearly, let that be the thing that you focus on. And watch what happens, George. Your confidence is going to go up.

And then the confidence gives you that courage to keep going, keep trying, get a new gig here. The income then goes up along with confidence. There we go. Savings rate goes up. The nest egg will start to grow. And you might need to work until you're 72. And I hope you're able-bodied with all those organic foods that, you know, you're still very limber. Monica's eating clean.

She can work. We can learn a thing or two from Monica. Hey, Monica, hang on the line. Jump on to RamseySolutions.com slash guide. We've got a free investing guide. It's going to walk you through this. Oh, I love it. Much more detail. Anyone can go get it. RamseySolutions.com slash guide. Monica, you're going to be okay. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me and we're thrilled you're with us. 888-825-5225. So this is fun. We get to do this every once in a while. We got John on the line, George. And John is from the Miami area and he's 46 and he's single. That's what I know. And John reached out to us and he said, I need some help with my budget. And we love this. So we're going to go through the numbers. We got, I mean, the

the budget man right next to me that's like cracking my fingers i'm ready to go i love it the people heard you crack the knuckles that was real life no sound effects so this is real so i've plugged it into our budgeting app every dollar so these are john's real numbers here and we're going to see what his situation is we're going to walk through it right now all right let's go john are you there yeah hi guys how are you well we're great man how are you feeling about this live on air uh budget ectomy

Well, I'm happy to be on the show. I recently started to watch some YouTube videos and I came to explore your show and I thought to myself, why don't I reach out to you guys and figure what's my options? Am I completely bankrupt or I'm going to be able to get out of this? And if there is a way...

maybe you can show me i got good news john i don't know what the bad news is going to be george is going to let you know shortly the good news is you can get out of this and boy oh boy do you have the man to help you he's wearing corduroy today so he's got a little extra credibility and confidence all right george take it away let's do this every dollar so john i've got your numbers here and i have them in every dollar but for the people's sake listening out there watching what is your total debt load

Combined, about $96,000 between eight cards. Wow. All credit card debt? All credit cards. Oof. And what is your income? So I lost my job beginning of last year, which was $175,000. I was able to find temporary projects with consistency, anywhere between $6,500 to $7,500 a month. But...

It's only been like four months last year, and I have about two months this year, which is ending next month. So you're going to lose all of that income next month? Correct. What field are you in? I'm in operations. And you're just, what would you say is the reason why you're having a hard time finding full-time employment?

I'm not sure. I don't know if it's something to do with economy. I don't know if it's something that's in my search, maybe combination. I don't know. Are you getting opportunities and just not winning the job, or is it a lack of interviews? Lack of interviews, I would say. Okay, and when you look at the field, are there multiple opportunities that you see out there that you are qualified for and are in the range of salary that you're used to making? Not really, to be honest. It's...

more diluted right now. Yeah, well, that is true. I mean, the white-collar jobs right now, we've seen a slow, slowing, what they call a softening in the job economy. So that's real. But let's stay on the budget, but we do got to talk about income here. Go ahead, George. Well, that's the big key because your budget with every dollar is income minus expenses. So I've got it on the screen here. Our team's going to throw it up for you.

And here's the deal. I'm going to assume 6,500 bucks is coming in this month, right? So I'm going to show you an example of what it would look like to get on this money plan. So you've got 6,500 coming in and you've got no savings? Correct. All right. And then you're not, are you paying rent or mortgage right now? Uh,

I'm staying in an apartment for free for two months until end of, actually, mid of next month. Okay. So we're going to need to figure out where we're going to live and how we're going to afford that. We need income before that happens, of course. And then I see here, it says car rental $1,000. What's going on there? Well, that's only for two months, actually, for this period, just because the project is very far away and I don't have a car.

So what is your plan to get around once this project's over? Probably not having a car and just using Uber whenever I need to, which will cut it probably by half. Okay. We'll keep going here. You've got groceries 200, restaurants 500, correct? Correct. I think I see a spot we can cut right now. Could you just not eat out and increase your grocery budget a little bit?

I mean, I could probably cut it by half. You know, I would say some of it is also to meet some people, talk about some maybe connections about work. Can we do a cup of coffee instead of a fancy dinner? Sure. Okay, that'll cut it down. So I'm going to cut this down to $100 for restaurants. We'll increase your groceries by $100 to make up for it. And so we'll save some money right there. Then you've got a phone, $65 a month.

Correct. We could do a little better there. My friends at Telo, $25, unlimited everything. So that one you could shave off $40 a month right there. And then the rest is all of your debt. I mean, I'm staring at, let's see here, every dollar adds it up for me. You have over $3,500 in just minimum payments on these credit cards? Yeah, that's crazy. Oh, I need some Tums. I know. That is wild. That's why I...

So here's the deeper question. This is not the point of the call, but what got you here to where you ran up $100,000 in credit cards? I think it was just accumulation from like two years before. Maybe it was like third or maybe close to 40%. And I think last year was just a lot more than that. But a guy making $175,000 has no need to go into credit card debt.

So what was going on in your life that you were spending this money on? Well, as I said, I think it started before that. I had probably at least 35 to 40% just being irresponsible in the way of thinking money is still going to flow for a long time. So has that spending addiction ceased or are you still adding to this credit card debt? No, the cards are maxed out. So even if I wanted to, I can't. You know it's bad when even the credit card companies cut you off.

Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay, anything that we can sell? I wish. Did you purchase anything on these cards that was a physical item that you can go sell on Facebook Marketplace? No, I did not go into luxury items spree. So was this experiences? It was...

It was, I had to relocate to another city, another state for the project last year. Some of it was paying for accommodations.

It was just, yeah, I think it was just months of doing that. Okay. Yeah. Well, here's the deal. We need to get income in our life ASAP, and that's where Ken's advice is going to come into play here, because without income, this whole plan is moot. The budget needs income in order to cover the expenses and attack the extra debt. So here's your goal, is cover your four walls. That is your priority. Before any credit card company gets paid, cover your food, utilities, shelter, transportation. Keep it all to a minimum.

Okay. Okay. Beyond that, you're going to start attacking these debts from smallest to largest. So I see here your credit card number one. The balance is $2,600 if I click into it. Yes. So that's going to be your first one to tackle. You're going to make minimum payments on the rest. So you've got to make at least $3,500 of payments. Then anything beyond that, throw toward card number one.

Yeah, I actually was paying all the smaller cards, but the big cards I wasn't able to. Three cards already been closed by the bank. Okay. They're in collections? I'm pretty sure that I'm already starting to get calls. So three cards already been... I call them also to let them know that after years, I'm unable to make payments on two of the cards. And I guess they already closed three accounts. Okay.

Two for personal and one for business. Okay. And are you able to make all of your payments currently on the remaining cards? Yeah, just the small ones, correct. Okay. So with this debt snowball, as you clear each debt, it's going to also clear up that minimum payment, which frees up more money to attack the next one. Are you getting that?

Yeah. Which means once you get started on this, it feels overwhelming now. But man, if you can get that job making 150 again, we can get rid of this debt. Think about it. If you can throw 50 grand at this debt per year, you're done in two years and we're never going into debt again. John, that's what we're talking about. A short season of sacrifice. Is this contract work remote?

Right now? Yeah, the work you're doing on these, you told us you had these contracts. Is that remote work? It's a project that moves around. In that case, they're actually here in Florida. All right, here's my point. The white-collar world, the kind of jobs, it is tightened. It is a softer market.

So you're working really hard to replace it. However, you're also at Home Depot or Lowe's or Walmart or whatever. You are working. You've got operational experience. You've been a manager of processes. That is extremely versatile and valuable. My point is you aren't waiting for another contractor job while you're looking. You are working, working, working to knock these credit cards down. That's the key to winning on this deal.

George, tell people how they can get every dollar just like we recommended to John. We're going to send it to John as well. We're going to give you a premium for one year so it connects to your bank account, has all the paycheck planning features to help you along this process. Everyone can go download it in the App Store. All right.

How many times last year did you end up with too much month at the end of the money? Even if you're able to stay on top of your bills, there's nothing left over. No margin, no breathing room. You work your butt off, but you still feel broke. And now you're wondering if 2025 will be any different. It can be. You are not powerless over your money. When you take control of the things you can control, you will make progress and bring peace back to your home.

and we're going to help you. On January 23rd, me and Jade are hosting a free live stream where we will show you how to free up more breathing room this year. Plus, when you sign up, you could win $4,000 cash. It's going to be a blast, guys. Go sign up right now. Make this the year you stop getting by and start getting ahead. Register for free at ramsaysolutions.com.

slash live stream. That's Ramsey solutions.com slash live stream. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. You know, I think back, uh, George, uh, by the way, I'm Ken Coleman, George camel with me today here. Um, I think back to that last call with John, as you were walking him through every dollar, you know, the, the, the theme there is John, you've got to take control of your money. He's been very successful, but he's never really had control of his money. And by the way,

No judgment or shame there. We've all been there before. And the idea of taking control of your money, that thought,

leads to an action, George, that, again, can turn anything around. And we've seen some extreme turnarounds here in our time at Ramsey Solutions and as co-hosts of The Ramsey Show. And it just makes me think again tonight why tonight's live stream is so important. It's a free live stream event. We've got over 400,000 people registered to join this free event. It's free, live on YouTube, 7 Central, tonight. And if you're one of those people right now, you're listening to us or watching us, you're going,

I've never truly taken control of my money. I really think you ought to tune in tonight, George. Absolutely. Yeah, I'll be a part of it along with Rachel Cruz. Dave and Jade will be leading off, teaching you all the things you need to be doing to get ahead financially, to start building wealth. And then we're going to have a live Q&A where Rachel and I will join answering your questions. We're taking questions live online.

Yeah.

And make sure you create a free EveryDollar account. You'll get a bonus entry in the giveaway for doing that. We're going to be using EveryDollar in the live stream to show you practically, just like I did with John, how to find more margin, how to speed up the progress. So 7 p.m. tonight, central time. We'll see you there, ramsaysolutions.com slash live stream. Now, you don't want to miss a minute of this, obviously, because every minute is planned out.

But people are at home. Life happens. And for people who love you, George, because it's a growing number. Is it? We're up to 10? It's a really large group of people. Do you have any idea about what time you're going to appear if you look at the minute by minute? I believe the first section with Dave and Jade is probably about 45 minutes. And then we're going to do about an hour of Q&A. We really wanted to make it about what people are really experiencing. If you're going to have to get up and go to the restroom, you want to be back in your couch. That's right. Yeah.

Around 745-ish. Yeah. And here's the good news. Are you wearing the corduroy on that too? I am. I didn't want to have to wardrobe change. I want the American people who are listening today who haven't seen this corduroy. What did you say? I missed that. I said I don't want to have to do a wardrobe change. So I thought I'll just wear what I'm wearing. I like that. Well, it's fantastic, Jack.

Thank you. All right. So you don't want to, by the way, I'm going to, I'll have a bucket of popcorn. I'm going to, it must be nice to be Ken Coleman on his couch tonight. Well, watching us do the heavy lifting. Listen, I didn't, I'm not starting tonight. All right. Tonight's the night I'm not starting. It's not my night. So it's going to be awesome. I'll be in the pajama pants, uh, watching you. I appreciate that. A little bit of popcorn, several hundred thousands. And it's going to be great. Your mom and dad are going to be very proud. My mom has always texted me during these saying you need to smile more. My

Mike, thanks, Mom. Very helpful feedback. You know, I don't like your attitude. I think your mom's probably right. She's right. Why don't you do what your mom says? You're listening to questions. You're focused. It's hard to smile. I've got to remind myself. I've never noticed that about you. You strike me as a very joyful person. Thank you. Worried, but joyful. Appreciate that. Steven is up next in Little Rock, Arkansas. Steven, how can George and I help? Can you all hear me? Loud and clear, sir.

Okay, so I'm trying to get out of debt, and I lost the best paying job I ever had. I was making $100K. What happened, and what were you doing? I was driving a truck, and due to unforeseen circumstances, I lost my job. Okay. And so my new career, it's still driving a truck, but I got a huge pay cut. How big?

Like, now I make about $35,000. And that's because that's the only trucking job available to you? I can't really go over the road. I hate saying that, but my anxiety is really bad. Okay. All right. Do you need to find a new career field? No, this is the only thing I've ever been good at. Is what, driving? Yeah. Yeah.

So the question then becomes, and again, before we start talking about, you know, you don't have enough money to pay your debt, we've got to figure out how we get more money. And that's why I kind of interrupted here to figure out where we are here. So I understand the anxiety. No shame in that. Don't be embarrassed by that. That's real. But a couple things on that. Number one, that's treatable. Would you agree?

Yes, I am on medicine for that. Okay. But regardless of what you're doing to treat that, I would be looking mentally at I've got to do the hard work. If it's a chemical thing, I'm doing meds. I've got to get to a point where I can get back on the road for a season if that's the best money I can make.

Um, or I've got to expand my horizons and my thinking to, all right, I, I, I can do more. What jobs do not require me to be over the road for long amounts of time? I'm thinking UPS driving for one of the beer companies, Coca-Cola. I mean, these jobs have higher pay than 35,000 and they also have a nice path, uh,

in these large companies. So just trying to ideate for you to go, man, you can't accept whatever happened in the past. It's got you here. It's going to be a lot longer and a lot harder. And George is going to walk you through this, the debt snowball, but you need more income and soon. Would you agree? Yeah. Okay. Your hourly rate right now is about 17 bucks an hour. Second job.

Oh, then I must have done my math right. I'm making $18. Okay, you're making $18 an hour. So what we're saying is if you can go make $20 an hour temporarily, you'd get a raise right now. Yeah. Which wouldn't be that hard to find. So give George your debt picture. Me and my wife together have around $24,500. In debt? Yes. Break it down for us. Okay, the credit cards around...

$1,500. The two personal loans of one's $2,500, the other one's $1,500. And there's a car that's, I think, around $1,500 and a building that's around $1,500. The rest is the student loan of my wife's. Okay. And is your wife working outside the home? Yes. What does she make? She makes $24,000. $24,000 a year or $24,000 an hour? $24,000.

$24,000 a year. What does she do? She is an occupational therapist or something like that. Is she working 40 hours a week? She's an activities director. Got you. She's an activities director at a nursing home. You see that there's potential for her to be doubling her income as well with not a whole lot of effort? Yes. My man, that's the conversation tonight over dinner.

We're both looking for jobs. One thing I do on the side that I'm really passionate about is on Sundays after church, I go and preach to elderly at nursing homes because they're lonely and need people to talk to. That's another reason I don't want to really go over the road to. What's that pay you? It don't. That's voluntary. And I love that. I love that, Stephen, but that's not a job. And right now you need to get out of debt.

You don't have a ton of spare time to be putting towards a lot of volunteerism. Use that passion to fuel your debt-free journey to say, man, I hate that I can't do that right now because I'm out working three jobs. I want to get back to that. So let's get rid of this debt fast. You see how you flip the script?

Yeah. So you guys are making about 60K. You've got about $25,000 worth of debt, and it's going to take the debt snowball method. And so any money we have beyond our expenses, which, by the way, should be minimal, we're talking about no eating out. Are you guys doing any of that right now? No, sir. The old post-church lunch isn't happening? No, he's preaching. All right. Hey, real quick question. Super quick, Stephen. I just heard something.

You said one of the reasons you don't want to go back out on over-the-road truck driving is because you want to be there preaching to the old folks, and I love that. With the medicine that you're on right now, are you able to drive without the crippling anxiety that got you out of the cab before? Yes or no? No. All right. I'd be working on that. I'd be working on getting to a point where you can manage your anxiety because that's $100,000, man.

They need truck drivers. It's the number one need in the market, George. I just wanted to throw that out. No, that's true. And this income will change everything to clean up this $25,000 of debt. It's not on fire. We've seen much bigger numbers. That's right. That's a good news. But it feels like it is right now because of that lower income. You get that up, this problem will solve itself, man. This is The Ramsey Show.