How A Bigger Paycheck Could Lead To Bigger Problems
01:27:42 Share

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney, best-selling author of Building a Non-Anxious Life. I guess I'm an aspiring best-selling author, John. I just...

pre-launched a book and I hope that it's successful as yours. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. It's on pre-sale right now at ramsaysolutions.com slash store. Work hard, George. May you accomplish all of your dreams. But we're both YouTubers so we succeeded in that regard. Well, you're crushing me on YouTube. If that's success.

Well, let's take some calls. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll help you take the right next step with your money, your mental health, your relationships, whatever it is. We will give you our advice. That is a guarantee. All right, let's start with Jessica in Boston. What's going on, Jessica?

Hi. So I'm wondering how my husband and I have, we're a family of five. We have three kids, five and under. We both work. We make a very good living north of 300K a year, which almost 50 of it is tax-free because my husband receives VA disability pay monthly. But we are, we've had several crisis, crises, I guess,

come up the past two years. And we were debt free, but now we, due to the unexpected occurrences, we're now living beyond our means, paycheck to paycheck, have no savings. And, you know, our emotional, our physical health is taking a toll. Our marriage is taking a toll. And we want to stop living paycheck to paycheck. How do we get out of this? And

And how can we repair the relationship along the way? I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. Yeah, what happened? What were the crises?

Yeah. So we, um, the height of the real estate market, right. We, we sold our first house, you know, this is our opportunity to get debt free. We were probably, I want to say between 50 to 65,000 in debt, um, at the height of the market in 2021, we sold our first home, uh, walked away, bought free, um, paid off the entirety of our debt. Um,

And then I got pregnant with our third child. I was only six months postpartum. And I was actually struggling with postpartum depression in the interim. We had major complications. I was in preterm labor for almost three months. And I am the breadwinner between me and him. Very high-pressured, you know, software sales, technology sales, I should say. And

and which forced me to, uh, need to take a medical leave of absence due to my postpartum getting so bad. Um,

It was literally for the safety of myself and my family that I had to take a medical leave. And the day I returned to work, I was laid off. In turn, we literally two weeks. Yeah, it was bad. So I want to say a month prior to me going back to work, we had just closed on a new home, our forever home, and the bills piled up quick. So how much debt are you in now?

It's probably, I want to say between $22,000 to $25,000 total. And what kind of debt? Yeah, so it's unsecured loan debt, credit card debt. Should I include the car or no? Yes, that's debt, isn't it? Okay, then it goes up from there. So I would tack on a total, an additional $60,000. So you're probably $85,000 in consumer debt. Are you back to working now? No.

I am. I am. I found a new job fairly soon, within a month, and I am working. Are you still making $300,000? It takes some time to build the pipeline again. Okay. What's your husband do? Yeah, he works for the government, and he was a Marine, and now he works for the government as a safety inspector for OSHA. So I'm going to let George talk you through this debt situation, but I want to say a couple things, okay? Okay.

Okay. The first thing is I'm really, really glad you're still here. Thank you. And making that call when you're holding a baby is one of the scariest calls you can make, right? It is. Yeah. Cause there's that demon telling you that they're going to take your baby away. People are going to say you're crazy and they're going to lock you up. And I'm so, so proud of you for doing that. That's hard. And we're good now, right? Yeah.

For the most, most of the time. I still have moments. Yes, there you go. Let me ask you this way. You're always going to be around here, right? Yes, for sure. Good. The second thing is, if you haven't already, there's going to come a moment when y'all are going to have to, and the quicker you get here, the quicker you can begin to do the walk the path that Jordan's going to lay out for you. You're going to have to make peace with, grieve the crap out of, but make peace with

Here's the life we had. And now here's the one we're in right now. Okay. The more you try to quote unquote, get back to what we had, the more you're going to make yourself nuts. Cause you're just going to run into the circle.

You're going to be dragging what used to be. Right? So we used to have $60,000 cars. We don't anymore. We're a Camry family now. We used to have a humongous house and we had our forever house. It's not our forever house anymore. You and me are forever husband, but the house isn't. And that's okay. Okay. And we used to make 300 grand. Now we don't. And maybe one day we will again, but that's not the world we're in right now. And so when you make peace existentially with those moments, then you're

Remember we had Alexis? Yeah, but now we got a Corolla and it gets us where we need to go and you got a bunch of dope marine tattoos, but you're going to look awesome. Smoking hot, getting out of a Camry. That's just the world we have now, right? And it's not less than, it's just different. It's different. And it'll be back. It'll be back. You're a hustler. Your husband's a brilliant guy. I mean, you'll be back, but let's make peace with that new world, right?

And that new world is awesome, by the way. It's top 1% of planet Earth. It's a great world. Just we've got to let go of what used to be. It used to be awesome, and then we got laid off, and it sucks, and here we are now. Now it's awesome again. Just a different kind of awesome. Okay. So, Jessica, this is going to start with some simple math, but it's going to end with some sacrifice and behavior change. You ready for it?

Absolutely. Okay. Keep the mind as... Is your husband on board too? This is an important factor. He is. He knows how you feel about all this. Okay. We're going to get you to solid ground and I'll give you some options. It'll be a choose your own adventure. My guess is your take home pay is somewhere around 15 grand a month. Uh...

Yes. Correct. Okay. So let's look at what our expenses are. What do we need to keep the household running? And you're going to do that with a budget. I'm going to gift it to you. It's called EveryDollar. I'm going to give you the premium version. It's going to have paycheck planning, connect to your bank account, all the good stuff. Your homework is to list out every single expense you have as a family and ruthlessly cut out the stuff that doesn't matter that you don't need right now. You got that? Okay. Give me a rough estimate of what that would add up to. Five grand? Yeah.

The total expenses that would keep the house running? Food, shelter, utilities, transportation, all that? $12,000.

Yep. With our nanny included, child care included. Oh, my. Okay. Remember those sacrifices I mentioned, Jessica? This is where we might have to figure out how to get that $12,000 down to $5,000. So we have $10,000 to throw at the debt, and we can be done in eight months. That might mean selling the cars if you can't make those sacrifices. It might mean letting the nanny go for a season. This is not going to be fun, but your life on the other side is going to be way better for it. So hang on the line. We'll gift you every dollar. We're wishing you the best.

One of the questions I get all the time is, which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy? A valid question since there are hundreds of companies out there with rates all over the place and riders and add-ons that are simply a waste of money. You need to get this done and make the right decision.

That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 25 years is Zander Insurance. Zander is a broker who shops the top term life companies for you and finds the best rates available from the only plans I recommend. They also save you time whether you want to work overtime

online, over the phone, or via text, their team will cater to your needs and help you make the right decision. This is an absolute necessity, and Zander has made the process easy and convenient. Call them at 800-356-4282 or visit zander.com for instant online quotes.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Today's question of the day is brought to you by YRefi. YRefi refinances defaulted private student loans. Defaulted meaning when the borrower can't make the required payments. So if that describes you and you've got private student loans, contact YRefi. They can offer you a low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be available in all states.

Today's question comes from Andrea in Arkansas. My husband's mom inherited the family hunting ranch. Oh, I would love to get this call one day, which is worth about a million dollars. My husband and I pay most of the expenses. We use our personal equipment to maintain it, and we are the ones who schedule and host hunters. I also handle all the bookkeeping. Andrea, call me.

So I told my mother-in-law that an LLC needs to be created for the amount of business we do. She met with her attorney and now the ranch is now only in hers and my husband's name. I feel like she's trying to cause a rift between my husband and me. I'm trying not to judge their family history, but every one of the other four kids are divorced. This seems to be her way of creating an easy way out of it if we were to divorce. My husband and I have a strong relationship and he assures me not to worry because this will change nothing in our marriage.

But I'm the one doing all the legwork and hoping this doesn't mess up our relationship. Am I wrong for voicing my opinion in this matter? What happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? We have two questions. We have two kids that will need to be cared for, and we earn nothing from the ranch. Those last four words tell me a whole lot. That's really the resentment. She's putting a whole lot of work in. She's getting zero dollars for it, and her name's not attached to it.

So there seems to be that's all playing into this picture. Yeah, this is a mess. They use their personal equipment to maintain it. They're the ones scheduling, doing all the, she's doing the bookkeeping, and she's the one handling, telling the mother-in-law to meet with this person. And I personally don't know the full story. I don't know if the mother-in-law is being malicious, if this is really a strategic move. This was inherited family land and property. Right.

That she inherited. So the daughter-in-law doesn't have a right to this land, even though she's doing work for this property. Right. Yeah, so there's multiple things happening here, I think, George. I think one of them is you're running a business that doesn't make any money. Stop. Stop running a business that doesn't make money. Who is making the money? That's the question.

The only thing I could think of... She said, we earn nothing. So the husband, she's not getting anything. The husband's not... Is mom making all the money? Yeah, so husband is using all of his tools and stuff like that to help because he wants to help out mom. And he's the one good kid. He's the... All the other kids are divorced and causing problems and he's the one good kid. So he's just going to dump some money into this thing. Um...

That's one thing. If it's mom's property and she wants to bring on your husband as a co-owner of an LLC in case she passes away, it's easy to go to him. I wouldn't lose sleep over that. But the fact that you're asking this question tells me there's something else going on here. And if you had trust in your mother-in-law because of the way she has treated you in the past and this came up, you wouldn't think twice about it.

right? If my in-laws, one of my in-laws, my father-in-law or my mother-in-law was to do a joint venture with my wife that I helped with, I wouldn't think twice about it because I trust both of them implicitly forever. This tells me there's other trust issues and that mom's maybe been trying to cut you out for a long time. And this is another way she kind of edge. Anyway, whole thing's messy. So I would ask this way. Number one,

If your husband likes hunting on this property and it's fun and he likes doing it and he likes to make a little side money bringing in hunters in, y'all figured that out. Even if you bring in side money and all it does is pay the taxes on the land and pays for the feeders, fine.

If husband's trying to do this to win mom's favor and maybe one day she'll leave it to him, hopefully. And now we're getting into messy stuff. And if you're running a business that's not earning anything, you don't need to have that conversation. Whole thing's a mess. But I want to go back to this one question here. Am I wrong for voicing my opinion on this matter? If you are a part of a marriage where both people have a voice and both people can be heard and to say what's on their hearts and on their minds, no. No.

No. If you have voiced your opinion and your husband said, I don't care. Don't worry about it.

then nagging or complaining or going to war is not going to solve the problem. Then your marriage has deeper issues, which is your husband doesn't care what your opinion is on these matters. He's going to do what he's going to do. You'll need to address that core issue, right? Yeah. And talk to him. You said, what happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? Figure out what the will looks like and what the estate planning journey looks like and what will happen with this LLC that he's a part of. I think you have a right to know what would happen there, but I also wouldn't

I feel like there's just more resentment here because of the effort she's putting in. So maybe she goes, I'm going to back out of this, and y'all can hire a bookkeeper. That's exactly right. You can hire a bookkeeper. You can hire somebody who is booking these hunts. I'm going to step out and just be with the kids. There you go. And it's not a job. It's not like we're going to lose money on it, and y'all knock your lights out if that's something y'all want to do on the side. Not much to lose here. That's right. All right, let's go to the phones. Daniel is in Cleveland up next. What's going on, Daniel? Hi, thanks, guys, for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

So I'm 23 years old. My wife is 24. We have a three-month-old daughter. My wife stays at home. I'm a nurse. Our yearly income is probably around $60,000. We bought a house around six months ago. We have about a $150,000 loan at like 5.6% interest, I think. So my question is, we have about $100,000 in a high-yield savings account.

It looks like we'll end up getting another $100,000 from an inheritance, basically, within the next month. We have zero debt. I guess just looking forward, I guess should I be paying off my home? I just don't know exactly what to do with the money. I just don't want it to sit there. Yeah. So the $100,000 in the high yield, does that include your emergency fund? Does that build into that?

Yeah, that's built into that. Yes. Okay. So what number would that be? Let's separate it out. I think probably around 20,000. So 80,000 is freed up. You've got 100 coming in from the inheritance. You owe 150 on the mortgage. I would pay off the house as soon as that inheritance comes in.

Okay. That's going to lower your expenses. You've got a stay-at-home wife. It's going to free you up with more margin to build wealth, to give, to up the lifestyle, whatever it is you want to do with that. But that's absolutely what I would do, especially as you filter it through the baby steps. Are you guys currently investing 15% of your income? No, we're not. So I haven't invested anything yet. I'm just starting to try to...

I honestly haven't listened to Dave Ramsey much other than in the last few months. Cool. Welcome to the cult, brother. We're glad you're here. That means you're trying to better your finances and your family's future. So I love that. So I would be, I'm sure as a nurse, you have a retirement plan, right? Yeah, I think they match like, I think 4% on a 401k. So I need to do that. And then my wife actually has a Roth IRA that her father set up a long time ago. She hasn't put much money into it since then, but-

But I'm going to have good building.

So I'll send you a copy of that. But the spark notes here is I'd get that house paid off. What's your mortgage payment? It's around $1,200. Okay. So I'm guessing principal and interest of that is a big chunk. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we're paying $800 in interest, just the way that they set up the...

Dude, what a gift to be 23 and 24 and not a payment in the world with plenty of money in the bank. If you just keep living like that, you're going to be a multimillionaire giving very generously. You know what? If you pay the house off tomorrow, you just got a raise to $72,000 a year.

Yeah, because of the... It makes sense. I mean, I guess, like, for us, I just feel like I'm at somewhat of a pivotal point because I just don't know exactly what I want to do. I also am thinking about going back to school to try to increase, obviously, our yearly income. I'm really hoping my wife can continue to stay home long-term. Well, no house payment with money in the bank. You can do anything you want. You can cash flow school, and it'll give you the margin to do that without needing seven side jobs so you can be there with those young kids. Bro, you don't have a house payment! Yeah.

This is a great place to be. You won. You won. If you don't screw this up and go take out stupid student loans because if you're an anesthesiologist, don't take out any loans. Grind it. Take this extra money and spend it. Invest it in yourselves. Bro. George, you're right, dude. You won. You won. If you never have a payment again at 23 years old, you're going to be just fine, my man. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's that time of year. It's starting to get a little bit colder. It's getting a little bit dark earlier. And sometimes if you're like me, you just want to stay inside and get cozy. And for me, my perfect cozy night is me and all of my family piled under blankets, watching a movie, sitting by the fire, maybe even reading a book. Listen, whatever your perfect night in looks like, sometimes therapy can feel a bit like that. A time when you can settle in, finally relax,

Exhale, replenish your energy and begin to take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or any other time of year.

Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one of the reasons I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy with licensed therapists. You can talk with your therapist just about any time and just about anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a therapist and you can switch therapists for no extra cost.

Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. If you want to jump into the conversation and talk about your money, your life, your relationships, your mental health, your boundaries, or lack thereof, we want to help you take the right next step. Shelly joins us up next in Dallas, Texas. Shelly, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for taking my calls. I'm really just calling because I've been listening to the show a lot and I know the baby steps and everything. And I know that I'm in a position where I can afford therapy, but my question is, it's just, well, it's not more of a question. It's just an emotional issue around spending the money on therapy. I just feel bad. I know I need it and my husband supports me, but, you know, just...

It just makes me feel bad to spend... It costs a lot. My insurance doesn't cover the license therapy part of it. So what's it going to cost for you to get this help? Well, I was looking at BetterHelp, and I even saw some more affordable options, too. So I did sign up with BetterHelp, but I'm just feeling like I'll try it for the first four weeks, and then...

cancel it. I start something, you know, I'll start it and I started therapy before, but it was just costing like a hundred a week. And then I was- So do you feel like this is a wasteful expense in your budget right now? Like, hey, this money should be going toward this. What's behind that? I start feeling like, I don't know. And it's part of my anxiety. It's part of the reason why I think I need therapy. Well, I think it has nothing to do with money.

I think money is the excuse that presents itself that gives you an out so that you don't have to go through this fire where healing's on the other side of it. Yeah, it could be. I don't know. I think you should go. It's all confusing. Honestly, the feelings might be confusing sometimes.

But even if you guys were up to your eyeballs in debt and you needed to go to counseling, we would tell you to stop paying off your debt, pause, and go to counseling. Get the help, you can care that you need. Yeah, I'm trying to wrap, I'm trying to, you can tell yourself, I know this is so important, my health, but it just feels...

It just hurts to pay it. I don't know. I was raised poor, you know, grew up in a poor family and we're doing really well now. And I just feel like that's it right there. That's it right there. You know why? Because when you grew up, other people, those people over there, they got counseling. They took quote unquote, took care of themselves. We don't got time for that. We don't need that. Only weaklings and wimps do that. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, it was. You didn't even want to say, oh, I need therapists because you would in my family would be like, oh, well, you're crazy. You know what? In your family. Tell me if I'm wrong in your family. You didn't say that you needed anything.

No, I actually struggled with eating disorder and everything starting when I was a teenager. Now I'm in my 40s and having panic attacks. And I had a traumatic event last year, medical, with neuropathy for chronic pain for like eight months in my face. It's time. It's time. And I can't sleep without heavy medicine. It's time.

It's time. Whatever it takes. If there was a medication, Shelley, that was $300 a month, but it changed your life, would you say that was a worthy $300 to spend that wasn't wasteful? Yeah. Well, I am spending a lot on my psychiatrist for the medicine, so I have to have that or I just can't function. But your psychiatrist has been telling you for a long time, I'm going to give you these meds, but you need to go talk to somebody, haven't they? Yeah, he did say CBT would help me. Correct. It's time.

I think we need to refile this in our brain as this is not a wasteful thing that I could be spending in this. And this is, it's too much in our budget into, Hey, this is like paying for insurance. This is keeping the lights on. This is paying for the internet bill. This is going to add so much utility and value to my life that I can't imagine not doing it. And it may not be forever. This may be a season that you go through and then it's over. Yeah. Yeah. I was kind of wondering about, I know everyone's different, but I was wondering about like on average kind of how, how long it,

could take up, you know, I've had friends tell me, oh, it took so-and-so a year to, to, to really, but I mean, there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you've struggled with disordered eating since you were a child and you grew up in a pretty tough place and a pretty tough situation. And if you think so little of yourself,

that the idea of spending money to make sure you're whole and well so that you can show up for you and for your husband and for others, if that shuts your body down or sets off your body's alarms, it's going to be a while. So I think it's counterproductive. I'm telling you it's counterproductive to say, okay, I'll give you four and then I quit. That's like going to the car dealer and saying, or to the mechanic and saying, hey, everything's broken on the car. You got 30 minutes and then I'm just going to come pick it up.

Yeah. I want you to completely reframe this. I put this dress on myself that I feel like I have to hurry and fix myself in this amount of time. Right. And you're not somebody, listen, I used a bad analogy. You're not somebody to be fixed. Okay. You're not broken. Your body's working exactly as it should, given the set of circumstances you grew up in, plus some genetics. And what you're going to learn is different ways your body can get through a day.

That's what counseling is going to do. It's going to let you practice. It's going to teach you relationship. It's going to teach you some new skills. Over time, your body's going to learn, hey, we weren't safe then. We're safe now. All of that is worthy of an investment. Go. Don't think twice about it. And listen to this. This is important. Your feelings are not designed to tell you the truth. Your feelings are designed to keep you safe given a set of circumstances. So this morning, I did not feel like writing in a journal.

I didn't, but I did it because I'm a better husband and a better dad on the other side of that. When I get all this crap out of my head and out of my body and onto a piece of paper, I will not feel like working out when I get home tonight. I don't feel like it at all. I'm tired. It's the weekend and I'm going to go do it because I promised myself I would. And it makes me a better fill in the blank, fill in the blank. So your feelings, I feel like I want to quit. Cool. I get that. I'm going to acknowledge those feelings. That's real. And then I'm going to keep going.

And I feel like I'm wasting money. Cool. Your body grew up poor. It put a GPS pin in poverty. It put a GPS pin and stopped spending money on quote unquote you getting well. Cool. I feel that. And I'm going to go anyway because I'm going to get well. I'm worth being well. That's a good word, John. And tactically, Shelly, adding this as a line item in your every dollar budget that says Shelly's

therapy. And then, you know, what's going to happen is December, it's going to feel like, oh gosh, that $300 came out for those sessions. Then January, it's like, oh yeah, we have that in the budget. Then February, it's like, oh yeah, we've had this in the budget. And all of a sudden it becomes normal, especially as you excel through the baby steps and you get to a different place financially. There's expenses in my wife and I's budget that, you know, 23 year old George would be like, whoa, that guy's blowing some money into us. It's no, we're buying ourselves peace. We're buying our time back with some of these things. And it's

therapy is not a luxury. It is financially for people who can't afford it, but it's not a frivolous expense. It's definitely worth being well. And John talks about this in his new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, which I'd love to send Shelly a copy of that, John, if you don't mind. Absolutely. And stay on the line. I'm going to hook you up with three free months of better help with my friends there, okay? I'm going to take that excuse away. Three free months of better help. But if you and your therapist decide, hey, it's probably best if you keep going, I want you to keep going and stay plugged in.

That's very kind of you, John. You wield that kind of power here on the Ramsey Show. I don't. I've got an extraordinary partner with BetterHelp, and they really, really care about people getting well. And so it's their generosity, not mine. That's very kind. So hang on the line, Shelley. We're going to send you a copy of Dr. John Deloney's bestselling book, Building a Non-Anxious Life and Three Months of Disorder.

better help on us to get you started on this path. We are cheering you on and I'm proud of you. That's not an easy thing to call into a national radio show and put that all out there and go, I'm struggling with this. I want to get the help I need. And I know a lot of people are benefiting from this call who probably need to take that next step too, John. Dude, I remember being a six foot two, 195 pound Texas male sitting at my kitchen table while my little boy was asleep and my wife was asleep in the other room, weeping at my kitchen table.

Because I knew I had to. And I also felt like such a wimp and such a weakling and such a coward and all those things. And I went. And it's changed everything. Go get the help and care that you need. Thanks so much for the call, Shelly. More of your calls coming up. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll be right back.

Hey, I'm excited to talk about a new sponsor, Burna. You all probably know I'm a gun guy, but I'm big on safety, so I'm also a Burna guy. Burna is the un-gun, a less lethal option that protects you in more ways than one. A Burna is effective self-defense when you need it. It also helps protect your assets from lawsuits,

If you have no choice but to use force because a Berna pistol immobilizes attackers without fatal harm. I have several Berna pistols and I love them. In fact, I had a Berna before they started advertising with us. They're easy to use with no recoil and no noise reduction needed. They're legal in all 50 states with no permits required.

And because they're not firearms, they can be shipped right to your door. And you can train with a Burna right in your backyard. Plus, our listeners can get the Ramsey Burna bundle for 10% off, which includes a Burna pistol, CO2 cartridges, and ammo. And other Burna products like safety alarms, defense sprays, and body armor are also 10% off for Ramsey fans. See why Burna has more than 15,000 five-star reviews...

Just go to Burna.com slash Dave to learn more. That's B-Y-R-N-A dot com slash Dave. 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined here by my good friend George Camel. Let's go out to Alexis in Phoenix. Hey, Alexis, what's happening? Hi, can you hear me okay? Absolutely. What's up?

Alright, so I'm 15. My mom just told me this morning that my parents have had to dip into their savings the past two months. Okay. My mom has stayed home with us and homeschooled us for 10 years and she's going to have to get a part-time job. And I'm just wondering like how my savings and how me saving for my future fits into that because I kind of feel guilty.

having extra money every month or having my own money putting into savings while they're struggling. Yeah, man, they are lucky. They are, they are lucky to have you as their kid. You are the oldest 15 year old I've ever talked to. It's fantastic. Okay. I'm going to tell you something really hard to internalize and you're going to hear these words and your, your guts aren't going to believe me. Okay. Okay. It's not your job.

You are doing an incredible job planning for your future. And your parents have made grown-up choices, like whatever job your dad is working at is a choice he's chosen to work. And that's his trade. That's what he does. And your mom made a choice. We want to stay at home. That was a collective values-based decision that they made.

And then there was a math problem they ran into. And like adults all over the country, brave adults are saying, okay, this is what we wanted. This isn't going to be, this isn't the way this is going to work out for a while. So we're going to have to alter our plan and do something else. And so I'm actually proud of your parents for doing that. It's awesome. It's just going to look different.

Okay. The greatest thing you can do for your parents is you take care of your business in the classroom. You take care of your business, like as a teammate around that house, right? Make sure you take care of your responsibilities with excellence, which I know you do and be sober minded, be intentional about planning for the future. What college is going to look like, what it's going to cost, where are you going to go? What are you going to study? All of those things. That's the way you support your parents, not by taking your,

part-time job money and trying to keep the lights on. Now, there may come a moment when they ask you for that. It doesn't sound like that's what's happening. It sounds like your mom sat you down like a good mom. She actually sounds incredible. Sat you down and said, hey, we have some hard realities that we're dealing with and so I'm going to have to go to work and so home's going to look a little different for a season. Is that what happened? Yeah. I applaud her because a lot of parents would try to hide that. They'd be ashamed of that. They'd be scared of that and your mom did the right thing. She sat down and told you a hard truth and that also means that she trusts you.

Does that make sense that she thinks you're wise enough to hear that? That's scary. That's scary stuff. Okay. But keep that in your mind and in your heart. It's not your job. Okay. Yeah. Do you believe me? Yes. No, you don't, but it's okay. It's okay. So there are some tactical things you can do. Alexis one is, you know, you're 15, you're starting to enter that age where you can go get some part-time jobs. And one thing you can do is instead of going, Hey mom and dad, I want the new iPhone. It's $1,200. Okay.

You can go work for that and save for that, and you cover your own expenses of things that are kind of the luxuries in your life. You don't have to go pay the water bill, but you can cover, you know, going out to the movies with your friends. It sounds like you already do that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I just, I wasn't sure if that was okay for me to continue to have, like,

Absolutely. I think that's great. Flexing that muscle at 50. I wish John and I were that smart at 15. Goodness gracious. I didn't know what day it was when I was 15. And yes, you, listen, we often think that pain is some zero or that grief is some zero. And what that means is that George loses his job and I get a flat tire.

And I am upset. I'm whining about my flat tire. And George goes, oh yeah, you think that's bad? I lost my, listen, grief and sadness aren't some zero. You can go have joy while your parents are making life adjustments at their home because one doesn't, you not, you just sitting at home and not having fun and not hanging out with your friends and spending your spending money by going to the movies. You doing that doesn't help the bills get paid. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah. It's just you joining into their misery into something that you didn't cause. It's not your job. Okay. Yeah. And so, yeah, go have fun with your friends. I love what George says. Um, if you know, Hey, now's not the time to go ask for the iPhone, whatever, 13 or 17 or whatever number they're up to now. That's cool. That's fine. Um, but do go have joy in your life. Okay.

I'm going to do one better for you, Alexis. I'm going to gift you Financial Peace University. And one thing you can do is you're casually hanging out in the living room watching Financial Peace University and you go, hey, mom, dad, if you want to join me, I'm learning so much in this. If you guys want to join me, I think it'd be really cool for us to go through it together. And not from a place of shame of like, hey, mom, I know you're just telling me you guys are broke. This might be good for you. I called a couple of idiots on the radio. I got you solved. Telling the person who wiped your butt seven years ago this. So

Just go watch it yourself. And I think you modeling that might inspire them, motivate them, give them some hope. And...

When the time comes, you're going to get older and they're going to be asking you for advice. That's right. And so it's a great place to be. So hang on the line. Jenna's going to pick up. We're going to gift you Financial Peace University for one year as well as every dollar premium. And you can get on a budget at 15 and they might see you doing that and go, what was that you did? That's pretty cool. Go ahead and send her Anthony O'Neill's debt-free degree too, Jenna. And she can start reading on now. Kit and caboodle. College is going to look like in the future. All right, let's go to Vanessa in Charleston. Hey, Vanessa, what's going on?

Can you hear me? Yes, ma'am. What's up? Okay. I'm so grateful to talk to you. Thank you. I'm struggling with some issues. All right. Bring it on. We are too. Okay. There's so many details. I'm going to try to keep it nice and tidy. Okay. I'm 51 years old. I've dated a man for about 10 years. We've lived together. I'm wanting to end the relationship. Kind of my issue is when we met, I sold the house that I've raised my kids in and

And I had went through Dave Ramsey, and I had cleared all my debts. So when we met, I was debt-free, and I had a little bit of money in the bank. About four years ago, we bought a house close to my daughter, and it was real small. And then another house came up around the corner, and it was in foreclosure. I got a decent deal on it, so I bought it. I own another house about 20 minutes away, and part of my issues are, number one, I wanted to end the relationship with my boyfriend.

My other issue is I'm having some domestic issues with my daughter, if you will, and I think maybe some space between us would be good. So I have a total of four houses. What's your mortgage total on those four houses? I'm broke. When I leave the relationship, I'll have nothing other than these houses and my income. Is his name on the deeds? No, not on these. So your name only is on all these deeds? Yes.

That's right. Okay. So can you sell all four houses? Yes. I think it's time to start fresh. Yeah. So my issue with it is, I mean, you know, my daughter's having some issues, you know. Is having, being broke and having all of your money tied up in these four houses going to help your daughter? No. No. No.

No, I guess where I'm struggling with it is, well, I mean, two of the houses are rented out. Do I sell the rentals and try to save the house that I'm in, which is not necessarily desirable to me. It's the nicest of the houses, but it's nice to me because I'm close to my grandkids, but my daughter and I are having some issues trying to decide whether or not to put space between us or what, you know what I mean? Or do I... Well, when are the leases up for the renters? When do I...

Okay. Then we say we're not renewing the lease. I'm selling the properties. Here's what I want you to do. Start thinking of it this way. You're trying to look at this as a math problem, as a mothering problem, as a mental health issue problem, as a relationship problem. Whenever my life gets this chaotic, I'm going to clean up my environment and take as many variables off the table as possible.

And right now you are leveraged to the gills in four houses that you can't afford. And it doesn't sound like you even want them. And if I'm you, again, I would talk to an attorney before you start dividing all this up because he may be claims to this and that. I'm going to take the variables that I can control off the table. I can't control the relationship mess. I can't control my daughter's situation. We're going to have to work through that. I can control how chaotic my life is trying to run four households at the same time.

I'm going to sell the houses and clear that debt. George, what do you think? Agreed. Awesome. All right. Hey, that's the first hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you for listening. We'll be right back.

Hey guys, I've never done this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field of Greens. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver, and kidney health, plus metabolism for healthy weight. And your doctor will notice your improved health, or Field of Greens will give you your money back. I can get behind a promise like that. Go to fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey and get 15% off with promo code Ramsey. Field of Greens.

Fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my good friend and one of America's favorite Johns, Dr. John Deloney. And we are here for you, America, taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Maybe you need some advice.

advice, some motivation. Maybe you need to take that next step with that broken relationship, the toxic boss, the debt that's been hanging over your head for far too long, and you're just ready to make some changes and live a better, more peaceful life. That's what we're all about on this show. Mary is going to kick us off in Cleveland, Ohio. Mary, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you doing today? Doing well, how are you? I'm going to be honest, I'm a little nervous and anxious right now. We got you, Mary. It's just us here. Just us girls. Let's talk. Okay. What's going on? So, I'm calling in because my husband is a gambling addict and has been since January of this year when it became legal in Ohio. Okay.

It has caused the heaviest toll on our marriage, on our relationship, our family, and I'm at the point where I have tried many routes with this, trying to be very gracious on how I go about it, trying to be respectful as a wife, trying to support his mistakes, but trying to get him the help he needs, and

Nothing is working. And at this point, he is very adamant about continuing to do it. And I'm at the point where I feel that I need to, you know, take my daughter and take a step away, not divorce, but maybe take some separation until he figures it out. But I honestly don't want to have to do that. But I don't know what else to do right now. What makes you think that or what's happening that you feel like I need to get me and my daughter out of this to be safe?

I think you're right. I think you're right, by the way, but I want you just to articulate what something else is going on. Like what's happening in your home. It's just an extremely tense environment. We argue all the time. Are you arguing because he's losing thousands and thousands of dollars or arguing because he just glued to his phone all the time and he's angry because he wins and loses or as most, as is most of the time.

The gambling behavior and the addictive actions that are like this compulsion is indicative of a much bigger issue in your marriage. Y'all don't talk to each other. You don't listen to each other. There's no intimacy. It's just become a mess. And gambling is the way he's choosing to handle that global dysfunction inside your home. Correct. Okay. All of it?

Yes, and I mean, the line is the biggest thing as well. So anytime somebody has a boundary inside of a marriage that they're thinking about laying down, right? Like, this is my final straw. This is my line that I won't cross anymore. I always want to encourage them to have an or what statement because the person they laid the boundary down is going to want to know.

Can you give an example? Yes. So you need to have an or what statement. You sit down with your husband and say, if we don't go to marriage counseling by the end of this weekend, or if we don't have a date on the calendar by the end of this weekend and it's next week, and if you don't go, here's the or what. Me and our daughter are moving out. Okay. Period. Period.

You just have to be prepared for the or what, because the or what comes with a lot of complexity. And I know it sounds super cool to be like, you can Google this and on these stupid websites, they're going to tell you like, just leave him. You don't deserve. That sounds all well and good. But there is a significant financial complexity to this, right?

Yeah, and I mean, I really don't want it to have to come to that. Of course not. I still love him. Of course you do. And we have a family together. Of course you do. I want you to keep this front and center as you move forward. You are simply doing what you have to do to keep your family safe and responding to somebody that's thrown a grenade inside your home. Yeah. You're not the one doing this, and he will paint you as the villain here. He has. That's right.

Because he gets to do whatever he wants to do whenever he wants to do it with, quote unquote, y'all's money. And you're just whining and nagging and complaining. Online gambling, online sports gambling is destroying gambling.

individuals and homes across this country, period. And dude, I always watch the fights. I love watching the games. I love having some fun with my friends. So it's not that I'm like this fuddy-duddy that sits in my house and plays bingo all the time. I love the whole environment. And yet this is destroying people. And you've told him that. And he has told you, I don't really care what you have to say. I'm going to keep doing whatever I want to do.

Yeah. And I mean, it's been the past few months, I guess to give just some quick context. So pretty much in a lump sum, he has spent between $30,000 to $40,000. Has he lost it?

Oh yeah. Like he's lost all of it. We don't, there's no, I mean, he's, you know, won a couple thousand here or a hundred here, things like that. But it's, it's, he's all together since the beginning of this year, it's been around $40,000. And can we be honest? This is what you know about. I promise there's more. This is all I know about. Let me ask you some, a very tactical question. If you move out, do you have, do you have a job? Do you have money?

Um, yes, I have a job, but we, um, so he's in nursing school. So hold on, hold on, hold on. He is making choices. You're keeping yourself safe. If he's in nursing school, then he gets to take care of his pay for nursing. He gets to make all those choices on his own. You need to have your four walls covered for you and your baby. If you choose to have your own bank account.

Yes, I actually did. Probably about two months ago at this point, that was one of the steps I took was separating our finances. We never recommend that except in this moment. Does your check direct deposit into that account?

It's still in our joint. And I will just say so pretty much because we don't have any, like we don't have any financial security right now. So with my job and his job, we get paid each week. So I get paid and then he gets paid the following and so on and so forth. So with our money that we have right now, I want to take money from like my check and put it into ours. But then all the

Bills come out from our joint because we haven't switched any of those yet. So all of like pretty much each paycheck that we get each week is going towards bills, going towards groceries and gas. And then there's nothing left. I want you to get with a friend and I want you to map this out. OK. And you're going to have to move your direct deposit to your new account. And you know as well as I do, he's going to hit the roof, isn't he?

Yeah, he already did when I, I mean, everything I do, he does. That's right. Are you safe? Yes. Okay. He's not going to hit you or hurt you? No. Okay. So we are getting with a friend and we're going to map this out. What's an apartment going to cost? What are the light and water bill going to cost? And we're going to get all this mapped out and lined out. We're going to make sure that our check can cover that. And you might need to get some new hours and all that kind of stuff. Childcare, all those things.

And then we're going to sit down and be very articulate and clear about my or what statement. This changes or here's what I'm going to do. You can't control anything he does. You can only control what you do. I hate that you're in this situation. Stay on the line. We're going to hook you up with every dollar so you can begin to control what you can control if and when you have to step away. We'll be right back.

You've got a lot to keep organized in life. Kids and calendars and carpooling and cleaning. I mean, it is so much. That's why you need a knockbox. That way, if something happens to you, you leave your loved ones with happy memories and not a huge mess. Knockbox is a complete system to help you organize your accounts, personal history, estate planning documents, and all your other info in one place.

I'm talking about everything from life insurance policies and social media accounts to your dog's vet, divided into 15 simple categories. Plus, they've got checklists that tell you what to add to each folder so your family won't have to guess where everything is.

So start getting organized today at knockbox.com slash Ramsey. Your family will thank you. That's knockbox, N-O-K, box.com slash Ramsey. I don't know about you, but I love the new year. It's a fresh start, and I get to reflect on the good things I wanna keep doing and the not so good things I wanna change.

And I know a lot of you are psyching yourself up thinking, okay, this year I've got to get my finances in order. And big goals like that are really exciting, but they can also be overwhelming. That's why it's so important to have a plan. So before you do anything else, start with a budget. Start with every dollar. I love every dollar because it's so easy to plan out your spending and keep track of it every month.

Plus, most people free up on average $400 in their first budget to go towards their goals. Guys, this could be an amazing year. And if you choose just one good habit to start, choose budgeting. Download the EveryDollar budgeting app for free today. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney this hour. The number to call to ask your question is 888-825-5225.

Jane joins us up next in Lawton, Oklahoma. Jane, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? We're doing great. How can we help you today? Oh, okay. So this is tough. So I've been married about two years and before we got married, I agreed to not sharing the bank account.

I understood his reservations. I do have a full-time job. All right. And a couple of months ago, I thought, well, maybe I really do need to learn to manage my finances better because according to him, like, I haven't proven that I know how to manage money. And I started listening to the Dave Ramsey show because I thought that, you know, I do love the Ramsey network.

And I have realized that my problems are a lot more intense than just a financial disagreement or a communication issue. Okay.

You know, he's gone half of the time with his job and he doesn't leave. He will not give me money for groceries, any necessities. Anytime I bring that up, he tells me I need to manage my money better. Do you have a debit card? Do I have a debit card? How much money control and access does he give you to money?

Oh, zero. So you can't spend a dime if you even wanted to? No, I mean, I have my paycheck, but that's it. Okay. And you're working full-time? Yes. Do you have any kids? I mean, I have one daughter. How old is she? Ten. Okay. Is he the dad? No. Okay. Are you safe? Yeah. I mean, physically, yes. All right. I'm going to trust you.

The data suggests that guys who act like this are physically abusive as well. And I would even go as far to say maybe hasn't thrown a punch, but has created a world that is so unsafe for your body that it shuts itself down and tries to get small because there's a bear living in that house.

Yeah, I mean, I've been through some pretty traumatic things in my life, but like on paper, that would be way worse than this. I've never had a panic attack until recently. So I know like full on like panic attack. And I know like I'm educated enough to know that like your body starts to do things when it's trying to get your attention. Yeah. Right. So what's keeping you there?

Well, I mean, I do. I mean, I did make a vow to him and I take that seriously. But I mean, I have a couple of thousand dollars in debt now that I didn't have before because I have to put gas and groceries on credit cards sometimes. Do you know? He makes about four times what I do. Sure. I don't want to weave this back and forth into a finance situation than out of a finance situation. You're in a situation.

extremely toxic environment. You're in an unsafe environment. And if we haven't crossed lines yet, we will at some point. And even when the way you started the call, he told me I haven't proven my, like just those words alone let me know this is very much a

father-daughter relationship far more than it's a husband and wife creating a future together. Right. I mean, he does control everything. I mean, not just money. And if something's not done the way he wants it done, I mean, he will threaten to put me out.

I mean, trivial stuff like beds not being made. Besides the vow, which, I mean, this doesn't sound like a marriage if you just talk, hearing you say this out loud just sounds like toxic roommate situation. What is he actually signing up for when he signed up for this marriage? I had recently asked him that, and, I mean, he was like, well, I married you because I love you. Is this love? I don't think love should feel like this. It does not. This is control. This is power.

I'm speaking on behalf of John Deloney, not on behalf of the Ramsey Network here. I take a much broader view of the word fidelity. I think you can cheat on somebody and never sleep with another person. But if you steal from somebody their dignity and their autonomy and their ability to have feelings and thoughts and a partnership in a relationship...

um that's not fidelity right you are cheating that person out of their life you're cheating that person out of connection okay and so i take a much broader view i think and some people are very narrow like you got to have sex with somebody else otherwise it's not cheating i i i have a much broader view than that but i'm listening to my sister jane here and you're slowly drowning and you know it your body's trying to get your attention and so i guess what george and i are asking you um two guys who love our wives and we're not perfect man but

I'm trying to sit across the table from you and say, what are you doing? Why are you here? Why are you staying? What's the hook? You got a couple thousand dollars. Who cares? You're too tough and resilient and brave. You'll have that paid off in no time. Like something else is here. Like what's the hook? Why are we staying?

I mean, I don't know that I could... Well, I mean, some of it's like I want to say that I gave my all. I don't think you're being allowed to give your all because the person you're connected to is saying, you can take your all and flush it down the toilet. Go make the bed the right way. Yeah. Are you scared to leave? What would be the repercussions if you said, hey, I'm out? I mean...

I mean, I just want a stable life for my child. This is not it. Your child is absorbing, top to bottom, what love looks like, what marriage looks like, what equality looks like, absorbing it into their DNA. Now, I will never, unless somebody is being physically assaulted, I'm not going to tell somebody they need to leave their marriage. I've often told people, you need to get to where you are safe, and we may need to take a structured 30-day break.

I'm going to go move in with a friend for 30 days. We're going to be very clear on when I come, when I come back, what the conditions of coming back are going to be. And again, you and I, you've got to make this choice. You're an adult. I don't see that going over well. Do you see your current situation going over well? Well, I mean, I probably wouldn't have reached out to you guys. I know, I know, I know.

And I hope you hear that we love you. I'm worried about you. Neither options are easy. Let's just make that very clear. Staying is really hard, and leaving is going to be hard. But one leads you to where you're free, and that your daughter's safe, and you're safe, and you can get to a better place financially instead of living in this prison. And we just want what's best for Jane. Yeah. I mean, I'm scared to make a decision. Yeah. And...

Do you have people that you know and trust that can sit with you and hear the entirety of the story? Yeah, a little bit. Have you opened up? Do they know? Yeah. What do they tell you? To leave. Okay. If your friend was in the situation, what would you tell her? I mean, I never imagined myself in a situation. No, that's what makes these abusive situations so surreal because it's like there's no way that's happening. I've heard that over and over. There's no way this is happening to me.

And it may even be, in your case, happening again, right? Yeah. I've never experienced anything quite like this. But I'm just scared of, I'm really just, I don't know what, I mean, I know what I need to do.

Here's what I want you to do. I want you to reach out to a couple of friends. To reach out to a local counselor in your community. Not to go quote unquote get well right now. But you need someone that's going to walk alongside you as you have a very challenging road ahead of you. Whether you stay and try to figure out how to make this thing work. Or you decide to create an alternative life outside of this relationship. But listen, you're worth being well.

Hey you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit unions because they're non-profit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt.

and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years, and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide.

You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000. It's easy to join and Fairwinds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience, you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location.

So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. And while you're there, look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances.

That's Fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Hey guys, no matter what your goals are in 2025, our New Year's sale has tools and resources you need to get the year started strong with prices starting at just $9.99.

Whether you want to make progress with your money, grow in your career, or create a more peaceful life, you can achieve your goals. And these books and products can help. Shop the New Year's sale now at ramseysolutions.com store. That's ramseysolutions.com store.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, host of the Entree Leadership Podcast, a fine print and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour. Joined this hour by the host of The Dr. John Deloney Show. You guessed it, America. It's Dr. John Deloney himself. But how funny would it be if it was a different host? If it was Dan. Hey, my name is Dan. I'm hosting The Dr. John Deloney Show.

It's kind of like us, me and you hosting the Ramsey Show. That's true. At least Dave took his first name off of it to make it less awkward for all of us. It's great. Well, we are here for you, America, taking your calls about life, money, mental health, relationships, career. It all kind of blends into one blurry thing we call life, and we're here to help you take the next step and help you make a breakthrough in that. So 888-825-5225 is the number to call. Renee joins us up next in Orlando, Florida. Renee, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. So just a little bit of backstory. My husband and I were in our mid thirties and we both work for front in frontline positions at one of the major theme parks in the area. And we also have a six year old son. And for the last three months, we've been living in a hotel because we could no longer afford our rent in our apartment. And financially we are just not in a place to buy a house. We've,

Been able to secure an apartment, but the real issue is we ended up falling for, as you would say, George, the stupid tax of getting into payday loans and installment loans. And now we're like $25,000 in debt and we make like $75,000 a year. But between the weekly payments on those loans and our regular bills, we're falling.

under our debt. And we don't know how to get out of it.

We were just turned on to your show, the Ramsey Solutions, maybe like a couple days ago from a co-worker of mine. And we've found hope in it so far, but we've been hearing stuff on the show like baby steps and emergency funding. We don't know what any of that stuff is. And we just, we don't know how to start. We don't know where to go from here. We don't have anything in savings. We don't have anything for retirement. We don't have anything for our kids.

and we would like to have more children someday and set up a stable future and a stable home life for them eventually so sorry to hear all about this for me gosh are you ready

Yes. Like, when George starts talking here, you have to say you're ready. And what that means is you're ready to quit your jobs if you have to. You're ready to move out of the area if you have to. You're ready to change everything. Are you in? Yes, we're ready. My husband and I, we've already started looking into...

schooling to get different jobs. You know, stay in the jobs that we have right now so that we can fund the schooling that we're going to because the company we're at, they will fund higher education for free. And my husband, he currently has a bachelor's in psychology and wants to go to school for a master's of social work to be a guidance counselor. And I'm looking into real estate school because I...

I don't have any desire to go to college per se and throw money into a system where there's no guarantee of me getting a job in that field. Okay, so you're ready. So George is going to walk you through it. So I love that you guys want to further your education and get out of this hole, but right now we're in survival mode. And so I'm not thinking about school. I'm thinking about how are we going to put food on the table and stop living in hotels and make sure our six-year-old is taken care of.

And so A1 is to stop going into debt. Are you guys done there? Are you still having to take out these payday loans to get by? No, we're done. We did take out some credit cards a couple months ago, but we have since stopped using them. Cut them up. Can you physically cut them up? Yes. Cut them up. And throw them away so you don't know the numbers anymore. Okay. And then we're going to pay those off completely, and we're going to close all of those accounts. Okay.

And we're not going to look at credit card companies and payday loans as a blessing to get us through next week. They are snakes. Okay. They prey on people in your situation, okay, who are working their butts off to try to make it work and want the best for their little kid and just can't make the ends meet. They prey on you. They give me and George, they give us free flights, and you pay for them, okay? They are not your friend.

So once we're saying no to debt, let me ask the interest rate on these payday loans because I think it's going to make us all throw up. Too much to say. Is it in the hundreds? Probably. I mean, we're spending $1,200 a month on these payday loans. Alone. What other debt do you have?

We both have car payments, and I've looked into selling them off, and we are basically upside down on both of our cars because, again, it was a buy here, pay here kind of place, so astronomical interest rates. Okay. You have two car loans. You've got the payday loans. You have the credit cards. What else?

The credit cards were actually not in debt on. We make those payments. Zero balance. Okay. We just stopped using them. But we also have medical bills in collections. I have maybe $1,200 in medical bills in collections, and my husband has $1,400 in collections. Okay. So what we're going to do is A1 is we're not going into more debt. That's baby step zero. We're going to stop the bleeding.

Your next step is to scrape together $1,000 as quickly as possible. That's going to go into a savings account. I know that sounds like, how are we going to do that? We have no margin. And this is where we go. Obviously, you guys aren't living lavishly. All of your money is going to debt. We haven't lived lavishly in a long time. So right now, your expenses are your four walls, is what I'm guessing. Food, utilities, housing, transportation. Okay.

Yeah, basically. And then anything my kid needs. Okay. Our kid needs. This might mean that we are working 60, 70 hour weeks and we're trading spots to take care of the six year old for a few weeks just so we can get out from being underwater. Let's tell her what that means. Your husband gets off of work and he doesn't come home.

Yeah, that's what we've been doing. My husband's been doing double shifts six or seven days a week because he can. My role at this theme park, they don't allow overtime. Have you talked to your employer, your leaders there, and explained what's going on? Yeah. Okay. And there's...

Could they put you up in some of their housing on the property temporarily? They don't have it. I mean, they have it for the college kids, but not for actual. Do you have somebody who could watch your kid for you?

We will now because like our closest family is three hours away. But we recently acquired an apartment, thank God, in a complex that's an hour away from work. But we actually have friends that live in the complex that would be willing to. So it might be for 30 days. From time to time. Well, it might be for 30 days. You ask them, tell them, hey, we're in a mess. And the moment you get off,

you're going straight to drive Uber or deliver Uber Eats or deliver Instacart. And all we're trying to do is get $1,000, get $1,000. You are going to get $1,000 in your account and you're going to take a deep breath for the first time in a long time. Okay? Okay.

And you're going to do whatever it takes. Even if it's I'm staying with friends, I'm going to get plugged into a local church and do whatever you can to get there. Baby step two is listing all the debts, smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate and attacking it with a vengeance with all the margin you can muster up with all the income you can create with all the expenses you can shave down. And it might be hard at first, but when you knock out that first debt, you are going to be on cloud nine and you're going to feel like, oh my gosh, we can do this thing.

And you're going to knock out the next debt and the next debt. And what does that do? It frees up the payments on those, now giving you a bigger snowball to keep rolling. And that's called the debt snowball method. Okay. And once you do that, over the next, you know, it may, what's the total amount of debt you guys have? I would say between $25,000 and $30,000. You guys can do this. Easy. You make $75,000, you got $25,000 to pay off. We've heard much smaller incomes with much bigger numbers, and they were able to do it. So I want you, the key to all of this is just believing that you can do it.

And we're going to help you and walk with you by giving you one year of Financial Peace University. Watch all nine lessons with your husband to get fired up, to give you knowledge, to give you motivation. We're going to give you one year of every dollar premium to get on a written plan, a budget every single week. You're tracking every expense, making every dollar stretch as far as it can go.

And I want you to call us back when you're debt-free and share your story because it's going to give so many other people out there hope who didn't think it was possible for them. Hang on the line. Jenna's going to pick up. We are rooting for you. We are in your corner. Please call us back if we can help in any other way. This is The Ramsey Show.

Between Christmas shopping and holiday get-togethers, investing might be the last thing on your mind, but there are certain things you might need to take care of before the year ends, and you don't have to do it alone. The SmartVestor program can connect you with a financial advisor near you. Whether you've got questions about retirement planning,

Required distributions or anything in between, a SmartVestor Pro will walk you through what you need to know. Head to ramseysolutions.com slash SmartVestor to get connected. Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramseysolutions.com slash SmartVestor.

This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. If you're a fan of this show, be sure to check out my friend Dr. John Deloney's show. It's on YouTube and podcast, and he does it right next door to the studio, and it's a real good one. And if you want more from me, which is a rare small group of people, you can check out Smart Money Happy Hour, a podcast I have with Rachel Cruz. That's real fun. And then a brand new YouTube channel where I'm making hopefully fun, entertaining personal finance videos, breaking down all the traps and trends to help you guys. So go check that out. You're blown by me, but...

Numbers wise, you're doing it, man. Well, I think it's because I went all in. I'm a YouTuber, like a true YouTuber. Yeah, you're like a YouTube native. Quick edits, highly produced, a lot of pop culture and memes, you know, less sad calls that are people in really tough situations. So I have that going for me. Excellent. And they're short. Well, it's crushing, dude. You're long-winded. I'm short-winded. You told me not to talk about your height on the air anymore, so I won't. Leave it alone, John. Bye.

All right. Let's go to the phones. Caleb is up next in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Caleb, welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. What's going on? Well, I'm having some financial struggles with my girlfriend. Really, like, I'm doing all right myself. We have a separate bank account. You know, I've never really thought of combining them or anything, but

She just hasn't been handling her finances very well, and it's kind of putting a real strain on our relationship. In what way? What's your involvement with her money? She hasn't been able to help out with any of the bills. We live together. Ah, there it is. Okay. So a lot of combined bills. She can't pay the bills? No. She can hardly even pay her own bills. Why? And...

Is she working full time? Yes and no. She just recently relocated. And that was the issue. Like, she took a job that didn't really pan out. And so for about a month or two there, she really didn't have the income coming in. Yeah.

Okay. And, you know, on top of that, she didn't really have any money saved up to fall back on. So she was putting stuff on credit cards. So are you covering all the bills right now? Yeah. Like all of the household bills. Caleb, is the problem financial or is the problem you're growing increasingly...

Disgust is probably a strong word, but you're growing increasingly frustrated by the character of the person you're trying to play house with.

Yeah, I mean... Are you starting to believe, like, I don't know if I want to be married to someone who rolls like this? Yeah, I mean, that's definitely, I think, you kind of hit the nail on the head right there. Okay, because here's the deal. One, George and I are both going to tell you, if you're not married, and we can say there's a moral issue, fine, but there's a legal issue. If you're not married...

paying each other's bills, playing house, playing each other's bills. It just makes for a mess, dude. If you own a house together, the whole thing is just so complex. And so we would tell you, man, if you're going to play house, get married, because at least there is some legal protection as you separate things out if things go sideways. If you're just dating, it just turns into World War III and IV and V. But beyond that...

Man, both George and I are married. We both are all in on the woman that we are with. And if there's a season where we got to do extra, that's what, I mean, there's no problem there. That doesn't seem to be your issue. That seems to be like, you're just getting increasingly frustrated that this is who I'm dating? Like, come on. And she's just like, nah, you got it. Is that right? Yeah, I mean, that's definitely...

You're going down the right hole there. I mean, what kind of frustrates me is I feel like a pressure. Like she wants our relationship to move to like the next level. What is the next level? You guys are already living together. That would be like marriage or kids. And I'm not comfortable doing that with her because of her finances. Have you told her that? Hey, hold on. It's not because of her finances. It's because of her character.

that are expressing themselves in her finances don't get those two screwed up because she's going to make you a bunch of promises and say okay well i'll pay my credit card off and i'll go get another job that's not going to cure the underlying which is i'll do whatever i want i don't have to participate in building make creating a home together and also in her defense i y'all are kind of just make it up i mean you're just it's very wishy-washy and it's hard to it's hard to anchor into wishy-washy right

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Have you had a conversation with her yet about all this? Yeah, I have. And it just ends in like arguments and yelling and stuff. I'm just kind of at my wit's end because even as we speak, like she's getting like opening up new credit card accounts and stuff like that. Have you said to her, being in debt scares me to death?

And when you borrow money, I can't breathe. And moving forward in my home, the home that I want to raise kids in and build a family with, we are going to be people who don't borrow money. And so if that's the way you want to get through your world, I love that you are opting out of relationship with me. Have you said that? No, I haven't. Have a backbone, man. You got to stand up and speak your virtues out into the world.

Because you're going to wake up three years from now, you're going to have two kids, you're going to be considering a wedding, and you are not even going to know what day it is. You're going to be so frustrated. Is that fair? Yeah. I would never, and listen to me, don't go tell them, hey, I called these guys on the radio, they told me to dump your butt. That's not what we're saying at all. I'm telling you, the only thing in the world you can control is your thoughts and your actions. So you go be a person of character and say exactly what you need and what you feel.

And then she gets to opt into that and y'all create a life together. Or she gets to opt out of that and have a bunch of shiny plastic toys. That's it.

I know I made that sound real simple. I know it's super, way more complex than that. But Caleb, this is eating you alive, man. This is turning into resentment. This is turning into you feeling like you're enabling her poor decisions. And if I'm in your shoes, I just go, this relationship isn't working. Our values are too dissimilar for this to work. And I wish you the best. And you know what that means? Someone's got to move out and it's going to get real awkward real quick.

Because your first thought is going to be like, I've been paying the bills. And she's going to say, bye, Felicia. And then the whole thing starts over. Then George and I high five and we're like, told you so. But we won't do that. I know the next few steps are going to be real hard. But what's even harder is just sticking this out, hoping things change. And it just gets worse.

And then you've got a lot of resentment. And John Deloney, he quotes another super smart psychologist guy who said, choose guilt over resentment. Yeah. And you're going to feel guilty. You're going to go, ah, she's already going through a tough time. I can't believe I do this to her. But man, it's going to eat you up. Choose that over hating the woman that you love, right? Or hating your mother-in-law or hating your dad. Like, choose guilt. Choose the boundaries, right? And it goes back to...

I don't think I'm a lot of talked about it yet, but I think I've talked about a little bit. It's a secret. Well, it's just like I got a new book coming out in the fall. And but one of the discussions comes from the great Michael Easter, which like you got it. It's hard. It's life is hard. If you are overweight by 100 pounds, it's hard. And it's so hard to lose 100 pounds.

So you're not toggling between a one's real easy and one's real hard. My life is super simple if I'm 100 pounds overweight and my knees hurt and my back hurts and I'm exhausted. And it's not, you're not choosing between a real fun time and a hard time losing weight. They're both hard.

Right now, what he's choosing is nobody taught that dude how to say his needs out loud. And nobody taught him how to sit down with somebody and build a picture of what marriage could look like for us and building a life and a home together. No one's done that. Doing that will be almost impossible. And living with somebody that you don't share their values and they are just digging a hole that expect you to clean up.

That's hard too. So it's not an easy, one's easy and one's hard. They're both hard. You got to just choose your heart, right? One's going to lead to freedom. What's the path? That's right. That's a good word. One path heads to freedom. Man, wishing you the best. Choose your heart, man. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to all the folks in the booth keeping the show running. My co-host, Dr. John Deloney, and you, America, we'll be back with you before you know it.

What up, what up? It's Dr. John Deloney from The Dr. John Deloney Show with some amazing news. The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app.

This docuseries follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90-day journey to transform their lives, and I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now, here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app.

What's up, Kelsey? So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life? What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that. All right, so you're ready to jump in? I'm ready to jump in. We're going to check in with Kelsey 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. I cannot even function because I'm just crying.

My mom left us when I was four. I truly felt like for a while I had no family. She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy. He triggers me a lot.

Scared of losing Paul, scared of doing the wrong thing, scared of not being enough. It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey. It is. Whenever somebody's playing whack-a-mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay. How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show. One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off. How is this burden? You're burdened, that's right. To the one person.

Who should carry it? All of it. Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault? I don't know what to do. You either have to choose to let this guy love you or you got to choose to let this guy go.