Make Decisions Based on Guidelines, Not Headlines
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Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr. John Deloney are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait. Get your tickets at ramsaysolutions.com slash tour. This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about...

Your money, your profession, and your relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my pal, the Natalie Attired George Camel Laysinger. Wow.

All I could think of was, your profession is Ken's obsession. I think that's a good tagline. I like that. That's a great call. I want to help you make more money. I'm the work expert, if you're new to the Ramsey world. And that's what they say anyway. I don't like actually calling myself an expert. But I'll tell you what I can do. I'm going to help you figure out how to make more money in your work so that...

George can help you with the budget. What do you do with that money? Pay it off debt, investing, and that's the one-two punch today. And we also think we're kind of funny.

We try. We try to make this show enjoyable when we're together. We're going to give you the same advice, but we're going to have a little fun. So if you don't like that, I'm sorry. There's nothing you can do about it. That's Ken's way of saying kick rocks and pound sand if you don't like that. That's exactly right. Speaking of helping people, you ready to go? Let's go. Let's go to Zachary in Omaha, Nebraska. Zachary, how can we help today?

Well, long story short, we just found the Ramsey show here about a week ago. Wow. Congratulations and welcome. Trying to get out of debt. Yeah. And as we were sitting down and going through getting our debt listed, smallest to biggest, to start the baby steps, I had found some debt that my wife's been hiding from me over and over again. Uh-oh. Credit cards, mainly. Uh-oh. How much? And she is...

That's a whole lot of combo meals. Yeah. There's a lot going on here. Was she sneakily going behind your back to McDonald's? Yeah. And

No, I didn't say that. She works really early in the morning. And just stopping and getting breakfast burritos and stuff, it's easier to pay on the app, skip the line, head to work. And it just got out of control. Okay, so you thought it was coming out of the debit account, I mean, excuse me, your debit card or your bank account, and it was actually on a credit card. So was this malicious? Did she know that it was not tied to the cards that you were aware of?

No, I was aware of the card, but I thought it was closed out. But she just says that out of habit, being that we're still connected, you know, there was that line of credit there. She has a very big problem with spending. And recently, because of this, we sat down, we talked, and we have decided that I am going to take over the financial side with bills and stuff. Okay, great. Normally, she paid hers, I paid mine, and I am taking over.

And then we've got a budget set where we put money in savings. We can start hitting all this. And really we've got, without mortgage, $16,000 now with that credit card, with our joint credit card, some medical bills, and a 401k loan. What's your combined income? Combined income is about $1,900 biweekly. We each make about $44,000 a year. Okay.

So what's your question for us? I'm a math and numbers guy. Yeah. How can I go about this to include her, to help her with taking over the finances? I want to be able to include her and hopefully maybe show her the numbers and the best way to go about it, taking on all the finances, but yet help her so she can eventually hopefully control money a lot better. Yeah.

Well, I think number one, we have to realize that this is not a, you know, you're not the chaperone here. You are as guilty of making a lot of stupid decisions as we all are. So I think this needs to, you lead first by going, hey, I have not done a good job handling money. I haven't done a good job leading us in this area. I want to work together on this. Here's what that's going to look like. Do you agree? We're going to meet weekly for a budget meeting. We're going to track every transaction. There's going to be nothing hidden. Everything's got to be on the table if this is going to work. Are you in?

Do you feel the unity and teamwork in that conversation versus a, well, I'm taking over because clearly you can't be responsible for, you know, very different condescending tone on that second one. Yes. And so if you want to get her on board, it's going to start with you leading with empathy and creating a vision for what this is going to look like. And then her agreeing, yes, I agree to that. Great. Now we can actually set some accountability based on what we agreed to in the past.

Which means we have cut up all credit cards. Have all credit cards been cut up and closed? Hers, yes. Mine, no. Not yet. And why is that? Just haven't done it, I guess. It is definitely...

Definitely something I want to do. I want to get rid of it. If I'm the wife and I see you still with your credit cards open, I'm going, whoa, whoa, whoa, butter. How are you going to be over here telling me how it's going to go, but you won't even cut up your own cards? Yeah, Zachary, if I might, and I don't want you to feel attacked at all, but I just am getting a sense that there's a real reason why you haven't done it for your own cards yet. What is it? Because when you paused, I've just done this enough. I got the $10,000. What's going on? There's a reason.

Right now, the way I use my credit card, right or wrong, I mean, I have all my auto pays come off of it because, say, we're living paycheck to paycheck. There it is. And my goal is to have money in the account so that we don't have to do that. Gotcha. Okay, so let's own that. So let's own that. So when George asked you, you were like, I don't know. No, you know exactly why you haven't done it. And you haven't fully submitted to the idea of a budget. And actually, every dollar...

That's why we call our budgeting app EveryDollar. You haven't submitted to that. You need to download it. In fact, you know what? We'll do you one. What can we give him? Let's give him EveryDollar Premium for a whole year. There you go. We're going to get you started. It'll connect to your bank account. Here's what you're going to do. Cut up the cards, and you can set up auto pay on your debit card. Yeah.

So that's going to be a little bit of homework for you to do. And she can sit there and you can walk her through it. So she has total awareness about here. Here's where all the bills are. Here's how I pay them. Bring her into it instead of saying, hey, I'm going to handle it. You step away. Let her be a part of it. And in that process, say, hey, babe, here's the deal.

in me leading us now and doing this, like we're not using credit cards. So if we don't have it budgeted for Mickey D's, you know, burritos and hush, what do you call them? Hash browns? Hash browns, yeah. I almost said hush puppy. I got seafood on the mind. I think Long John Silver's. Like, babe, there is no wiggle room on this. Do you understand? Like, I'm not trying to control you. Like, we're in this together. And so if we budget $50 a month for,

For McDonald's, that's it. And I don't know how far that'll get you. Well, I feel like maybe we got to start eating at home and cooking together as a family. Well, no, I knew you were going to say that. While we're in debt. I'm the fuddy-duddy. Well, no, I'm just trying to teach a little bit. Here you come over the top of the rule. Sorry, I got all fired up. Go ahead, scream at them. You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant until when. Well, Zachary, I just think if there's a commitment that we're both not going to eat out, it changes the game. And so then there becomes an inherent accountability. Yeah.

And so if you guys get on that budget every single week, sit down, track your transactions against your one checking account that is shared, that's going to create some momentum for your money and for your marriage. I think this communication is only going to help the marriage. I think so too. Zachary, love that you just joined us a week ago. Hang on the line. We're going to get you taken care of with every dollar. You guys can do this.

Love that you two want to work on it. Sounds like there's some harmony here early on, and that's all it takes to work. All right, real quick, before we go to the break, if you're going to cheat at McDonald's, what's the one item you get? Because you're Mr. Budget. It's on the dollar menu for sure. I'm going value menu, Ken. I got you picked for a cheeseburger. Bring back the snack wrap. You just want a snack wrap. All right. I think it's fries for me. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business?

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us, America. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside. Karen is up next in San Antonio, Texas. Karen, how can we help today? Hi, you guys. Sure appreciate you taking my call today. You bet. I...

I guess the start that I'm a widow. I'm 66. I have a small business that's kind of struggling. Recently had heart surgery, et cetera, et cetera. No kids, no family, two dogs. Two dogs, little social security and some from my business and credit cards.

I managed to get into a situation. I borrowed money from a personal loan, um, an online personal loan company, um, nationally advertised, all that kind of good stuff. Um,

Went through the whole process because I wanted to pay off some debt, you know, to get rid of my credit cards and to invest in a vehicle for my mobile salon. And managed to find out that the interest rate is somewhere around 48%. Oh, my goodness.

And it's front-loaded. I mean, I heard the 48%, but I thought, that's no big deal because I'm going to pay this off very quickly. And so I didn't pay attention enough to hear that it's front-loaded. So the amount of money that I borrowed... Most of your payments are going to interest, essentially, not touching the principal. Absolutely.

How much was the loan for? Half and half is what it is. I ran a thing this morning. It's not half and half. It's going to principal. How much was the loan?

For $29,000. And how soon were you planning to pay that off when you just stared 48% and went, ah, no big deal? How quickly were you planning to pay that off? Those were your words. Within a year. Within a year. So you were okay with a 48% for a year? I've never heard anybody say that before. That's an extra $15,000 in interest alone.

Yeah, well, like I said, I'm kind of ridiculously stupid at this particular point. I'm not here to bash you. I'm trying to understand the desperation that led you to this. Yeah, is this for your business? Yes. What's your business? It's dog grooming. Why did you need $29,000 for a dog grooming business that's struggling? To...

I went to the next phase and, excuse me, didn't expect that. It's going into a mobile situation, a mobile grooming situation with a very specified market that nobody's really tapping into at this point. What is the market? You know.

Well, I don't really want to say it out loud on the show. Oh, okay. Competition. Okay. You don't want to give away your Shark Tank idea here. Okay. Well, I hire mobile groomers, so I'm just curious because I pay these people and I understand how the business works. And I've used a mobile groomer as well. Right. But this was a... The concept was a little bit different. It's a larger grooming situation where you have two people inside and then you...

And we're situated in an area, a contracted area, that we would be there for three or four days. And we would take care of a certain population. So the only reason we're digging is... It's kind of like a pop-up. Got it. But the only reason we're digging on this is we're trying to figure out how we help you get out of it. So the question is, was the $29,000 for like a van or some type of vehicle? Or was it just the equipment? Or was it just other stuff? It was part of the...

You're breaking up on us, Karen. I'm sorry. It was part for the vehicle and then the other part for the conversion of the vehicle to the unit that I was trying to achieve. How much could you sell this thing for to someone else who does mobile grooming? I believe in an easy $40,000, $40,000, $45,000. And what's your total debt that you owe? Everything but the mortgage.

On the vehicle? No, just everything. All your debt. Because you said you had other debt and you took out this debt to try to pay off some other debt. So what is your total debt load right now?

Okay, total debt load with the thing that I took out before is about $31,000. Then I have $8,000 on Amex and about $8,000 on Citibank, and that's it as far as what I owe. And $4,000 on the RV that I bought to live in. So you're living in an RV right now?

Yes, that's correct. I had a plan originally. We all have a plan until life punches us in the face. So how, if we were to sell this, can you sustain yourself on just regular pet grooming? Or do you have to be mobile? I have a...

Well, it's part of, you know, to continue on with the mobile business just because of the culture of employees and such since COVID. I have a standalone, I mean, I have a stick and mortar business also, but I was going to keep it in a small set. Is that profitable? Is the brick and mortar business profitable? Right now, no. Okay.

So here's what it sounds like. You're jumping from unprofitable to unprofitable to unprofitable, hoping to strike gold at some point. And instead, you just keep digging a hole by maxing out these cards and jumping to another piece of debt to try to cover the other debt. And so we're trying to stop you from playing the shell game and, number one, create a profitable business, and two, get out of debt. Yeah.

And that might mean a clean slate where you get rid of this mobile grooming truck, you sell it, sell the RV, you rent for a while, get rid of all your debt, create a foundation, and then start slow and with cash. Yeah, I just, and to that end, Karen, we're trying to solve for you here.

Um, could you make similar money just grooming for somebody else? Just somebody else who's got a business and they're looking for a solid person like you, you're not going to flake on them. You've got the skillset. Can you make the same amount of money working for somebody else as a groomer?

If I was able to work full-time and work as hard as I used to, yes. Like I mentioned before, I'm 66 and I have a paymaker and a student. What is your yearly income from all of this after all of your expenses?

Fairly anything, because everything I have goes back into business. That's what I'm saying. You could go work a retail job and not break your back doing this and instead get out of this completely. And what about 20 hours? Like, just work part-time. They need groomers. You're a dream for somebody. Yeah, I know. I'm trying to find one. I know, but Karen, listen.

We want you to sell all this stuff, and you've got Social Security coming in, work 20, 30 hours, do whatever you can. But selling the RV and selling this van gets a whole lot of money. I don't have the van yet. That's why I borrowed the money to – So where is the money right now? Well, I was afraid to spend it once I figured out how much it was going to cost me. So I kept it and just let it pay itself. Wait, so it's a money bank. Can you just go ahead and pay off the loan then? Yeah.

I could, but it would take pretty much everything that I had. Better than paying $15,000 in interest that you don't have. Yes, Karen. This is get out of jail here. This is get out of jail, Karen. I thought the damage was done and you already bought the van and did the renovations, but if you have the money sitting there... Oh, yeah, no. No, it's not even there yet. Hit the rewind button. The bank gave you $31,000 at 48% interest. That's it. Rewind this whole deal. And you have to do $31,000. Do it. I'm sorry for the sound effects. No, it's great, actually. I like that. Really? Karen.

Hit the rewind button and get out of this deal. Go work for a local groomer who is going to be thrilled to have a 66-year-old experienced, non-flaky, Gen Z groomer. And they're going to pay you well, and you get some breathing room. Am I right, George? Absolutely. And what's the RV worth? You owe $4,000 on it. What could you sell it for?

No, I owe $40,000 on it. Oh, my goodness. And what I could sell it for is about between $35,000 and $40,000. Do it. It's a $24,000. Do it. Where the hell am I going to live? Rent somewhere. Over some old lady's garage because she needs some companionship and she wants somebody who can... I'm telling you, where there's a will, there's a way. What's your payment on the RV?

441. Okay, take your 441 that you'll save by getting rid of that, plus your Social Security,

plus your part-time hours and you can afford rent somewhere you might need it you know to there's some gold i guarantee there's some golden girls in your community that love would love to have a roommate i mean you gotta look you gotta find it you gotta happen to life karen and we've been talking to a lady who life has been happening to her you gotta flip the script here we told you exactly what to do this is doable but you gotta do it change your life this is the ramsey show

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The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YREFI. With YREFI, you can take control of your defaulted private student loans with a plan that works with your monthly budget. Visit YREFI.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

Today's question comes from Drew in Nebraska. He says,

We have $80,000 saved for a down payment. We have no debt and our emergency fund is done. We're comfortable paying about $2,500 a month in rent. We would like to build this summer and potentially finish by the end of the year. Is this something we can afford?

Well, Ken, this is like a common core math problem, and I don't think he's going to like the answer. I don't think so either. I got my mortgage calculator up here on the Ramsey website. I love it when you talk nerdy. I know. And here's the deal. You're going to have PMI, because right now you guys have about 12% down, $80,000 into $650,000. Tracking? Mm-hmm.

which means you're going to have to pay PMI, which will likely be at least a few hundred bucks, maybe three, four hundred bucks or even more. And so you said we're comfortable paying twenty five hundred a month in rent. That mortgage would be closer to sixty two hundred dollars.

So that's a lot. Now, you guys make great money. 250,000, I mean, that's serious. And so if you want to look at 25% of take-home pay, let's say they're bringing in, you know, 15 grand a month or so. Well, that's probably a $3,000, $4,000 mortgage would be comfortable for them, which just tells me it's a patience thing. We either have to save up more down payment or we need to lower the build of the house.

or look in a different area yeah and so this isn't a no you can't do this this is a we got to be patient here and let me tell you the baby lives in your room for the first six months so you already bought some time there on my room next up now ken's out he's out on that it's going to i'm not a fan of that parenting strategy just going to call that out the baby needs to sleep in its own room

So there's one part of it, but really a baby, you can live where you are for the first year or two of the baby's life and survive. And so my take is have a little patience here and let's wait on this home purchase because number one, having a baby is a lot already on top of moving and building. There's a lot of moving pieces there. And so I would encourage you guys to just stay put where you are and continue saving. And I believe I have my computer plugged in if we want to take a look at that. Oh, you're going to show people what you're doing. I thought it would be fun.

I thought it'd be fun to show them if I can. I don't know that I'm capable. You got to select. This is like trying to get your phone to work in your living room on the TV to show everybody the family videos. There we go. All right. Let's see if this works. See if dad can figure it out.

Is it working, James? Do you like that? Here it comes. Booyah. There it is. Oh, how about that? So I'll even zoom in for you, Ken. I know you have bad vision. You don't have your readers on. But that's what it's looking like. $6,200. Mr. Smarty Pants. I'll put my readers on. And you can go in and play with the interest rate. No, I can't see it. It's too far away. There you go. So private mortgage insurance, the property taxes, home insurance, HOA dues. So you can play around with the numbers.

on this real estate mortgage calculator to figure out, hey, how do we get this within 25% of our take-home pay, which, by the way, is after taxes but before other deductions. So we're not talking about after the 401k, after the health premiums. Just take out your taxes, state and federal, and then see what your take-home pay would be and aim for a quarter of that. And again, it's just a parameter. If it's 26%, we're not going to yell at you. It's just a parameter to make sure that you can get through the other steps. But congrats on the...

impending baby. That's right. By the way, I'm going to fully commit to the readers now on the air since you outed me. They look great. You outed me, so I'm going to go ahead. It's giving Clark Kent. Well, you know, it makes it a little easier to read, folks, because I'm very mature.

This week's average 15-year fixed mortgage rate dropped to 5.79%. I wanted to mention that. Now, this is the lowest since October 2024. So if you're thinking about buying a home you love at a price you can afford, and it becomes very possible when you work with a Ramsey-trusted real estate agent. These are pros that are handpicked to guide you. Find a local pro for free at ramseysolutions.com slash agents, ramseysolutions.com slash agents, or click the link in the description if you're listening today.

or on podcasts and watching on YouTube. The show notes is a treasure trove, as I like to say, of all the information. But, you know, now's the time to move if you feel like you're ready to move. You can't guarantee that these rates are going to keep dropping. Yeah. Well, a lot of people have these golden handcuffs, Ken, because they refinanced or bought in 2020, 2021, and they're going, well, I got a 2% or 3% rate. I'm stuck. And I hate that for people. Yeah, I do too. Let's go to Seattle, Washington, where John is waiting for us. John, how can we help?

Hi. Sorry, this has to be kind of brief, but my wife's a big fan. She listens to you all the time. We have the every dollar premium. We've been trying to budget every month for the last...

five months or so. I work in corporate America. I do marketing, digital marketing, and my wife is a part-time homeschool hybrid teacher. She makes $18,000 a year. I make $105,000 a year. We have roughly $200,000 left in our house. We have no other debt, nothing at all. My wife and I struggle to

be under budget with the EveryDollar app every month. We're always spending more than we're taking in. I don't do any of the shopping. I'm just at work. She takes care of our one-year-old son, and it's just very difficult to get under budget each month. So I don't know. I've tried to talk to her about this. She just has issues with spending too much. So is she paying every single bill in the household?

So she does the grocery shopping. I pay all the other bills. So our son goes to physical therapy. So as you look at the budget and the bank account, where would you say most of this money is disappearing to?

Groceries, by far. Okay. And are you saying that you feel like she's overspending on groceries? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, we're spending easily over $1,000 every month on groceries. And is there a reason? Have you asked her, hey, what's going on with the groceries here? Can we change our grocery store? Are we wasting food? Like, how can we do better in this area?

I try. She tries to make everything in one stop. So we have Safeway out here, which is like, I guess, Kroger now for everybody else. But also going to Costco, she just likes to only go to one store and buy everything. So a lot of the Costco bills are $300 to $500. She does that sometimes twice a month, plus going to Safeway. And then things can get up to, you know, $1,200 easy on groceries. But even then, are you guys taking home $9,000 a month? What's your take-home pay?

With both of us, it's about $6,000 a month. That feels awfully low for you guys to be making gross close to $130,000. Well, yeah. And again, our mortgage is not very high either. It's about $1,600 a month.

Like I said, there's just lots of things that just seem like they sneak in there. Yeah, but this is more than groceries. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Even at $1,000 in groceries, you guys still have $5,000, $6,000 of random other bills. And so I think there's more to it. I mean, what are you contributing to this? You sound like you're pristine the way you've set this up, but I've got to believe that you've got some habits.

Not really. I don't buy anything on Amazon. I don't buy anything on Amazon. I run a lot, so I buy running shoes like every other month. That's about it. They're about $150, and I do, I'm very athletic. I run against college kids in D3 schools, but I have a coach that's $150 a month. That's all I really spend on myself. Okay.

So you have your fun money. You've got John's fun money, $150. You've got groceries. Run money. But there's still a lot of money to be accounted for in here, and this is going to be a conversation with you and your wife sitting down with accountability saying, here's what we...

Okay, if we need $700 in groceries for some reason, that's the limit. And once we go over that, it's over. You guys got to sit down. You called us for help, but bottom line, you said she's a big fan. So she's open to all this stuff. You guys got to sit down and track spending for 60 days so that you just have a really good idea about what's going on.

And we've tried. We've tried. No. If you've actually tracked it against the budget, the budget will tell you very quickly where your money is going. You're too busy running. What are you running from? No, no, no. I'm running from my fears, I guess. Yeah, you are. She buys a lot of stuff on Amazon that she thinks, oh, our son needs this and our son needs that. We did.

have a car that was a gas guzzler. We did get a new car, and that was paid for by generosity from a family member. It's completely paid off. You guys can do this, man. This is communication. I hate to keep simplifying this. And we're here on one side. I think you're telling the truth, but I think she might be telling the truth. What if little Junior does need all of this stuff? He's a year old. He doesn't need anything. I don't know what he needs, but, you know, dad's at work and running. Well, I know.

Yeah, a little less running and a few more meetings. That's what we need to do. There we go. This guy, those running shoes aren't cheap. That's why I don't run, Ken. I save so much money. This guy's so much into running, he's got a coach that's coaching him how to run. That's next level. I'm going to start racing against elementary school kids. That's my version. What are we doing, man? Tell you what, I'm not running. I'm sitting on this break. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Isaiah is going to join us now in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Isaiah, how can we help?

Hey, gentlemen. Thank you for your time today. I just started a new job about nine months ago. I work for a medical supply company. And, you know, obviously, everyone's paying attention to the news. These tariffs are kind of scaring us as a business and a company. And so my question to you guys today is, you know, we're on baby step two. We're taking the course right now. So we're like on our seventh or eighth week in the course.

And we've been paying off debts and it's been feeling great. But with these tariffs, there's, you know, there's communications and stuff from our uppers and CEOs, and they've been very good with us. But at the same time, there's no guarantee that our jobs are safe. So my question to you today is, do we continue to make these extra payments with

a high concern in job security, or do we hold off on making those payments to kind of see how things go and just save that money? Tell me what's going on. Where are you guys getting your parts from, these medical supply parts, I'm assuming is what you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah. So a few years ago, they moved everything from China to Mexico. So obviously, that has a big impact on our business to the point of significant losses for us. So hold on a second. Hold on, hold on. I just got to ask a few questions. So your company is importing medical supplies from Mexico, correct? Exactly. Okay. And all of them?

or some of them of your inventory that you're offering, how much of the business is affected by imports from Mexico? Yeah, it's a complicated structure, but I would say probably we're set to lose 17%, 18% of our business. Why are you losing it? You guys are just going to stop buying and selling those? No, do we have more profits? No.

Yeah, exactly. We'll lose most of our profits, and that's kind of my concern is how that impacts us. Okay, gotcha. All right. That helps. That's why I'm digging in. So you're talking about your profit margin is definitely going to get hit, but you're not necessarily losing business. No. Okay. And what is your leadership? Because here's the other part of this equation. It's how much of that cost are you guys going to pass along to your customers?

You understand? That's why guys like me, free traders, I don't like tariffs, never going to like tariffs. So don't at me or send me hate email. I'm not going to read it, and I'm right. So we'll just leave it at that. Tariffs become taxes. It's just that simple. So are your leadership, are they talking about, hey, we think we're going to actually lose accounts because we would have to offset our increased costs by importing these

parts from Mexico and now they're more expensive due to the tariffs and we can't offset that by passing along to our customers so therefore we feel like we're going to get really hit hard. What are they communicating because that will help George and I in answering your question. What's been communicated to you or are you just looking at the headlines?

No, they've been communicating and everything's on a table. We'll try to eat some of it, obviously, but we also, it's a medical field. So there's, there's set contracts and fees and stuff that are already locked in. So you can't raise the price. So they locked in the price at, you know, a dollar a needle. And now you guys are getting charged a dollar 10. And so you're losing money on the contracts essentially.

Essentially, yeah. Okay. By the way, while I'm here, I'm just going to leave this here for all of you who want to be educated on things beyond just your personal money. This is why I don't like tariffs. You have fixed contracts, and this creates a problem. Well, and there's the retaliation tariffs from Mexico that now affect U.S. businesses. I know. Trade wars are never fun. Okay. I'll leave it at that. There's your geopolitics lesson for today. Okay. So...

George, does this constitute a storm? I think until leadership is actually saying, here's what's going to happen, and hey, phase one, here's what happens. Phase two, layoffs. Here's who goes. And even Ramsey did this during COVID. Our team communicated, leadership said, here's what's going to go down if things take a shift. And then you kind of know the game plan. And so I think there's not enough information right now to go, I'm going to pause. Because this could be

A year long? This could be three years. We don't really know how short term this is. And if it was a short term storm, I'd say let's pause and save up. But if this is going to be four years of who, will they or won't they? I don't think it's going to be. I do think that...

I can't predict this, but I do think that the tariff situation is going to be settled at some point in the near future. And can you guys change suppliers next month and then this will be solved in 90 days? Yeah. I would keep my ear to the ground. I'd keep my ear to the ground, Isaiah, on this. But how much debt do you guys have?

Yeah, so we have about $15,000 to $16,000 in consumer debt and then another $36,000 in student loans. And over the past five years, we've paid off probably $70,000, $80,000 with no real intensity. But now that we're taking the course, we're trying to stick to the course and do what we're told. Yeah. What's the $15,000, $16,000 outside of the student loans?

You know, one of them is a private student loan, one's medical, and then one is a refinance that my lovely self did a long time ago. Okay. So how quickly would you get out of debt? If you just stayed on the Ramsey plan, how quickly would you get out of debt at this point? You know, we were shooting for probably two, three years. Three more years to pay the rest of this debt off? Something like that. That feels like a long time based on, I mean, what's your household income right now? I think it's like $120,000.

So 120 grand and you have another, what, 40, you have 51 grand left in debt?

Yep. So why can't out of that 120, you take 25 and be done in two years or less? I feel like that's even conservative. Well, yeah, I mean, I said two or three years, yeah. So I'm thinking we get really intense about this and try to knock this out very quickly. And if you do get wind that, hey, layoffs are imminent, they are happening, I would then pause and save up. But right now, I don't know that there's enough ammo to go, we're going to push pause on life and just stack up cash. I'd wait for a little more communication. I concur. I concur.

I just feel like everyone's on edge, and so leadership is preemptively communicating. Now, his is legit, where their business is affected directly and instantly. You know what? I feel like we need to take a couple minutes here and talk about guidelines versus headlines. Ooh. Can we do that? I like where this is going. So here's what you're going to see in the headlines. You're going to see the stock market drops yesterday almost 900 points. I haven't looked at it today. You're seeing...

The tariff news, right? Trump's not backing down. Canada's bowing up. Mexico's bowing up. Are they going to negotiate what's going on? China's getting involved. You're going to watch all these headlines. Now I'm seeing stuff, and I look at all the different news sites, by the way. I'm apolitical in my news gathering because I want to know what people are seeing. You're going to see headlines about, is a recession going to happen?

You got realities right now of stagflation is kind of hanging out. For those of you who didn't pay attention in the sixth grade, stagflation is where inflation goes up and the economy goes down into a recessionary state. That is real. So you got all these things. If we're not careful, George, we get so focused on the headlines and we feel like,

Oh boy, I got to be nimble. What am I going to do? I got to get in front of this storm when it's not actually a storm. And then I want to say, we've got to be focused on the guidelines, the stuff that we teach and

Makes you recession-proof. Yeah. You know? Not owing people money, having an emergency fund, that's the goal is getting to that financial piece to where no matter what's going on in the headlines, your family's going to be okay. So in this case, would you tell our friend Isaiah, hey, I might be looking for a different job. I would be doing that. In a similar field and maybe have something lined up in case you got a jump ship. That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't pause the baby steps, but I would say, all right, let me look at if worst-case scenario happens, which by the way,

Based on what I could pull out of that situation, again, this is the negative side of tariffs that nobody wants to talk about if you're in love with one side of the aisle. You just, well, he said we're going to do it. Let's all do it. Woo-hoo! It's like, whoa, hold on a second. This has real economic impact, and this is an example. So in that situation, you cannot control what the White House does. So we say you control what you do in your house. And so don't stop knocking out debt.

But start looking for a fallback plan if for some reason you got laid off. And it's a good lesson in diversification for business owners out there. You can't just rely on one supplier because if something happens to that supplier, prices, they shut down, whatever it is, COVID, now you're stuck and your whole business relies on that. So it's important to have backup plans. And to tie a bow on all this because I'm trying to...

to inform you folks. This is why if you're going to do tariffs, you've got to deregulate. You've got to cut taxes for businesses because the whole goal of this is to not be reliant on foreign countries for imports. Let's make products in America, American-made products. I'm all for that. And you heard small businesses. That's the backbone of the economy right there. Not good. There's your lesson from the headlines. Follow our guidelines. You'll be okay. This is The Ramsey Show.

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I would add hygienic, but thank you. Well, I was going to take people to that mental image, but you did. So I do find you to be very hygienic. Thank you. You know, a little known behind-the-scenes fact here before we get to our first call. George brushes his teeth and mouthwashes before every show. Thank you. I stay fresh for America. And the guy's got a real minty fresh breath coming at me when he throws a comment. So I thought you ought to appreciate that.

Excellence. Excellence. That's what it's all about. That's right. Excellence in the ordinary. It's a Ramsey value. Nicole is joining us now in Sacramento, California. Nicole, how can we help?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. I was calling because I needed some advice on far as what I should do next. A little back story. Last year, my mom handed me a Capital One card. No explanation, nothing about it. I threw the card in the closet, didn't think about it.

A few weeks ago, you guys had on the caller asking about a friend wanting to be an author's user on a card, and neither host at the time was a fan of that. My eyes immediately... You're breaking up on us, Nicole. You're not in the closet with that credit card, are you? No, no, no, I'm not. I'm not. I'm sorry about that. But I pulled my credit report.

to find that this account was on my credit report. I called the credit card company and asked them to remove me as an authorized user. Okay. And they said that that would take about two days, but now I need to know what I need to do next because I want this off of my credit report. How long has it been since you've been removed?

Um, maybe about two to three weeks. Okay. Yeah, it'll take longer than that for it to fall off the report. It's going to be more like a month or two. And you can also contact the credit card issuer. You can also go online and file a dispute with the credit bureau saying, hey, I'm not a user on this account. Please remove it from my report. And so you can do a few things to just kind of check in on it and expedite it. But it should be falling off here shortly. Okay.

Oh, okay, okay. Did you see anything else on your report? Or was it just that one card?

It was just the one card, and I don't know if it even matters with it being a FICO score there, because I've never had a credit card. I have never applied for any credit whatsoever. So that's why I didn't understand the authorized user thing and why that was even done. And then to see that on my credit report, it's like it –

Yeah, that would bother me too. If someone did that behind my back, that's not cool. Have you talked to your mother about this? I have not had the conversation yet because that was an immediate headache. You called us, so I figure you're trying to avoid this conversation. Do you think it's not going to go well? Yeah.

I just, yeah, I guess. Feels like it's a habit. No, I don't think it won't go well. It's like I just kind of am annoyed that I even have to deal with it. You're trying to cool down before you call mom. And maybe it's a boundary. You know what I love about this, Nicole, is that you have the discipline to get rid of it. And I feel what she's feeling.

She's like, do I really want to have an unnecessary conversation? Because she shouldn't be having it in the first place. Well, what I would do, Nicole, is freeze all of your credit bureaus. Just freeze all accounts so no one can do any of that anymore. And you can also check your credit report weekly for free at annualcreditreport.com. And so you can check back in on this. I might check every two weeks or so. You don't have to be on top of it. But I wouldn't worry about it because you're not in debt and you're off the card. And so the risk is gone. It's just the annoyance of having this thing fall off. I think it's a text.

I'm going to go with a text on this, Nicole. Okay. I think I'm feeling you, and I'm going, I don't want to talk to mom about this, but maybe a text. Hey, mom, listen, I don't need a credit card. Don't ever want credit cards. Don't do credit cards. I went ahead and closed it out, but just FYI, don't need one. Thanks, and just let it go.

You know? Yes. Yes. It's just, I get you. You're going, I don't want to burn the calories trying to explain to mom all this stuff. It's not that she's going to be angry. It was just so out of the blue. How old are you? I'm 30. That's a weird thing to do to your grown adult child. I can see it. Was she worried about you? I think she must have got a deal or something. Maybe she clicked on something. No.

Really? Yeah, there's no reason to be worried about me. I've never had issues with money. It's like I hang on to my money. I just want to get to the bottom of it. I know, but I think mom must have clicked on a deal or something. It feels like you've got to go through a few steps to get an authorized user. I know. It's a weird thing. It is a weird deal, but I think she had proper motivations. She didn't get how you do it. Let it go. That's my two cents. I'd let it go. I'd do a text, and I wouldn't do a phone call on those kind of things. It's like trying to explain a way of living.

Yeah. To somebody who doesn't live the way you live. That's a lot of brain calories. It's a lot. It's a lot. As you would say, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. That's what I would say. I would say that. And it's true, by the way. Samantha's up in Syracuse, New York. Samantha, how can we help? Hi. I guess it's like a two-part question. So my husband just finished building a house for us. With his bare hands? We saved up a lot.

Pretty much. He did 90% of the work. See, George and I, we cannot even process how manly he is and how talented he is. I couldn't draw a house, let alone build one. That's impressive. I couldn't build a house with popsicle sticks. Couldn't do it. Well, about like four years ago, I gave him this idea that I wanted to sell the house we had. His family had land.

It didn't work out that way. We sold the house. We bought a piece of land near his family and had a really old trailer on it. We lived in that trailer for two years while we saved up about $20,000 before we started building, but we also used $40,000 to buy the land. Hey, I just want to tell you, we got two minutes, and I know you have part one and part two.

Yeah, sorry. So that's all we had up until January for debt is our mortgage. It's $190,000. That's all we have. In January, I totaled my car. Oh, no. Yeah, it sucked. I hit a deer. So it paid off my loan. I ended up getting $2,000. I was...

you know, I was on top of it. So that's not the end of the world. My husband hadn't had a vehicle loan in the five plus years or whatever. So he went out two weeks after I totaled my car and bought himself a $33,000 truck. So I'm just wondering where to go from now. I got about $6,500 in the bank for savings. And I'm just wondering, um, and you don't have any car, you have your one car family right now.

Well, nope, nope. We have cars. They're just a matter of beaters at this point and his nice truck. So we kind of just bounce between his nice truck and the beater to get me to work right now. Okay, so you have two cars total? We have three cars total. He has his old truck that didn't have a payment. It's in rough shape, but it does the job. Okay. Then we have an older car, and then we have the newer truck right now. So we have three vehicles, two of which are paid off.

We've gone backwards here financially. So I would look into selling the truck. I don't know if you can convince them of that. And you don't need a new car. You need to buy cars you can afford in cash and keep it that way for the rest of your life. So this is going to be a come to Jesus moment. But it's not going to be, well, you got a new car, so I get a new car too. It's going to be, hey, we need to figure out a plan to become completely debt free. And that means selling your truck and buying two cars in cash and selling the rest. I agree. This is a tough conversation because...

My guy went out and just got himself a new truck. A man and his truck will not soon be parted. And so now he's got to say, what? Huh? And she's got to hold the line and he's got to agree or else this is going to be ugly. This is the Ramsey Show.

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We'll be right back.

at ramseysolutions.com slash realestate. ramseysolutions.com slash realestate. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Let's go to Dylan, who's joining us in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Dylan, how can we help today? Yeah, so I have fallen into the personal loan trap. Uh-oh.

Well, the good news is my co-host today is George Campbell. Oh, boy. I'll see if I can pull you out of the well. He wrote an entire book about this. Be aware of the traps. That's right. If you fall for the trends, you fall for the traps. There it is. His signature quote. What's going on? Why are you falling for these traps? Man, it's so easy, it seems like. Oh.

So easy to do what? To go into debt? No, to fall for the predatory stuff like interest rates and stuff. Okay, but what happened? What did you take out debt for? So I got a trip actually last year in July with my mom to Boston. It was a 4th of July trip and I took out a loan for that. That sounds like it's on you. Yeah.

I don't think you fell. I think you jumped voluntarily. How old are you, Dylan? I am actually 40. I turned 40 in February. So a 40-year-old man decides to take his mom to Boston for July 4th. I mean, I get it because I like history, but I mean, that's like, I mean, like how are we taking out a loan for that? That's not like a big deal, like that big of a thing. You could have saved up for that. Am I right? Right. How much did you take out?

$11,000. Goodness gracious. Would you sit in the front row of the Boston Pops? No. What were you doing for $11,000 in Boston for July 4th? So I used it for other stuff. There we go. Oh, here we go. Dylan, we got to be honest with each other if we're going to make this relationship work. Is that fair? Yeah, I got you. Okay. So how much total debt do you have? About $30,000. Okay. And what do you make a year?

Um, I made 85 was my 85,000 was what I made last year. Okay. And what kind of debt is the 30? You got 11 in the personal loan? It's all personal loans. All personal loans. Why is that? Did you not? Yeah. But like a credit card, did you not have any credit cards? I'm just curious why you went personal loans all the way. No, I don't have credit cards at all. Okay. Okay.

He draws the line there. You draw the line. So what's the interest rate on all this debt? It's quite a bit, actually. I looked. It was like one was like 300%. That's what I'm saying. These are not like personal loans from your credit union. These are like payday loans. 300%. I'm dizzy. Why did you darken the door of a payday lender? Oh.

Yeah, I don't know. Like you actually drove to the payday lender and went, yep, this is it. This is where I'm going to get some money. I think I know what it is, Dylan. Can I take a stab? Can I take a stab as what's going on? Because this is how you started the call.

You kind of started the call kind of going, you're presenting as a guy who feels like he's unable to fight the temptation of these type of loans. That's the way you present it. Is that a fair analysis? That is fair. Okay, great. So it feels like the reason, based on what evidence you've given us so far, is you just get this spontaneous hair, this idea of like, oh, I want to do this, or this would be fun, and you don't have the cash for it.

And so you just decide, well, let's just go get some loans right now and I'm going to go do this and figure it out later. It sounds like it's that simple. You can't control your impulses. Is that right or am I wrong?

His dogs are barking. I'll tell you that much. Yes, they are. Dylan, did I just stump you there? No, I think you're right. Okay. Okay. Well, here's the deal. We can't solve the current debt if we don't stop going into debt. And so can you make a truce with me and everyone listening right now that you are not going to touch another diamond debt? Yes. You're not going to go. You're never going to be in the parking lot of a payday lender ever again. Agreed?

Agreed. Okay. Because right now it's like the hot light is on at Krispy Kreme and you can't help yourself but stop in and get a few dozen. And we have to stop. We got to get to the root of what's causing that. I don't know what, if it's something you're running from, if there's a vice in your life, but a guy making 85K in Oklahoma should have a pretty good life. Don't you agree? Like if you told 15 year old Dylan, like, hey man, one day you're going to make an $85,000. And here you are going into debt instead of being able to just save up and pay cash for things.

I think you're profoundly sad about your life. That's what I think. Is there truth to that? Yes, there is truth to that.

And you're using this sort of these loans as therapy to try to go, if I can just have this as a coping mechanism and buy more stuff and take more trips, I'll distract myself. Yeah. And Dylan, I just felt that. And I was willing to take a risk there. And I don't say that to shame you, but I think you need some therapy. I really do. I think you've got to get to the bottom. See, anytime somebody does something like this, it's only a manifestation of something else. It's the symptom. It's not the problem.

And it just sounds like you just need something to medicate the sadness or an uneasiness, a lack of just satisfaction.

And I think if you can reframe that with some help through a professional, I'd call better help. I really would. I mean, I'd start there. And it's affordable. It's convenient. And I'd start figuring out what's going on there because a phone call with George and I isn't going to snap you out of this, if I can be completely honest with you.

Because the temptation is going to present itself tomorrow or the next week. And quite frankly, you're not going to be hearing George and I's voice. You need to get to the bottom of this thing and begin to see, oh, I've got some pain. And if I can get healing on that, all of a sudden I'm not tempted by this medication in the form of these trips or whatever it is you're doing where you go get quick money to get a quick high, the quick high of life.

And I think that's what's going on. I hope that encourages you. But I think that's what you need to be dealing with right now. George, I want to give you a thought. Well, we can hit the financial piece and I'll send you some resources, including my book, Breaking Free from Broke, that'll walk you through all of this and give you some encouragement. We'll put you through Financial Peace University if you're willing to join a local class and go week after week for nine weeks with a group of people who also have made dumb money decisions. Would you do that?

Yes. Awesome. Okay. So after the call is done, we'll get you on with Christian and he'll hook you up with those resources. Let's talk about the debt for a second. What is your smallest current balance? It is like $500. Okay. And I assume you got nothing in checking and savings right now.

I have $100 in, so I have a credit union as well with the company. Okay. And I have $200 in there. But you're still, you're living just down to the bone, down to the wire every single week. So the way to get out of this is we need to cut our spending down to nothing and increase our income. So can you work overtime? Can you take on side hustles in order to get your income up in the short term?

Yes, I've signed up for overtime. Great. So here's the deal. Once you have that $500, we're going to just throw everything we can at that next smallest debt because the problem with these payday loans is they grow like a cancer.

because of the interest, as you've seen. It's hard to get out of them. It's why it's a cycle that we see a lot of low-income neighborhoods. It's why payday lenders sit there because they're willing to take your $100 and they're going to get $100 out of you by the time the month is over. And so you've got to attack these things aggressively to get rid of them. And if you do that debt snowball method, you can get out of $30,000, make an $85,000. It's going to take a lot of sacrifice. It's probably the next 18 months of your life is going to just look like work, work, work, work, work, no time to spend, no time for trips.

Okay. Do you have anything you can sell? Have you bought any toys, items that you could sell to help get rid of this debt? No. You owe nothing to your name? Just a car, but it's paid off. Okay, good.

Well, that's the plan, man. Hang on the line. Christian's going to pick up. We'll send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. We're going to send you Financial Peace University, go through all nine lessons and get some professional help where you can get to the root of what's going on here. Because I agree with Ken. If we don't get to the root of it, we're just going to stay in the cycle. Yeah, I agree. And I got a weird feeling like the pup was agreeing with us.

I do feel like that. Did you feel that? That was like the pup was in the background going, Amen, amen. I think the dog is feeling the anxiety as well. These dogs, they can feel things. It's just a hunch, folks. I don't know if that's true. But I felt like he was really chiming in when we were dropping in the hot stuff. So, I don't know. All right, quick break. George and I are going to discuss the value of denim jackets, and then we'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. ♪

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. 888-825-5225 is the number. Let's stay right here in our neck of the woods. Elijah joins us in Nashville. Elijah, how can we help?

Hey, so, uh, to explain what's been going on is I've been going to work every morning by, uh, a meter car that my parents let me use with my sister. Um, I live with my, I live with my parents. I worked at the local post office. Um, and I recently just got, uh,

laid off because I wasn't able to keep up with the workflow. Oh, I'm so sorry. What do you mean you weren't able to keep up with the workflow? I just wasn't fast enough. Like I couldn't get the mail out the window fast enough as I was delivering. Hold on, hold on, hold on a second, because this will be material later. What do you mean? Were you a mail delivery? Were you a mailman? Yes, sir. I'm a mailman. Yes, sir. I'm a mailman. And you just couldn't get mail delivered in the amount of time that they have allotted for you?

Yes. Do you agree with this? Yes. And what is the reason for why you couldn't get the mail out in time? I'm just kind of a slow human being. I tried my hardest. And they recognized. They were like, hey, we saw that you tried your hardest. We're not firing you. We're just...

asking that you please resign because... Well, they fired you. I mean, it's okay to admit that. I know it hurts. I've been fired before. It's the worst feeling in the world. But it wasn't a layoff in terms of, hey, business is struggling and we can't afford to keep you. It was, you can't do this job. I guess you're right. And so it's okay to own that, but we've got to figure out what's next for you. Well, and I got to ask another follow-up, George, and I'm not trying to pick. I'm trying to understand. When you say, I'm a slow individual...

I'm not very intelligent, and I'm not fast-moved. Like, I just—how do I say this? So you have some mental challenges? Is that what I'm hearing? That's probably what it is. I mean, I've always been slower than my schoolmates. I've had, like—they'd always tell me, oh, I went and did this on Friday night. And I was like, wait, you were out? I was doing homework, trying to figure out the lesson. Gotcha. Okay. But it's not a diagnosed disability? No.

It's not diagnosed or anything. I mean, I might be able to...

go get it checked out at some point, but that's not my main concern right now. I get it, and I don't want to hover on that, but let me just say this really quickly. It is important as we go forward for you to dive into what's going on. You may just have some processing challenges, which is very, very, very, they're calling this neurodiverse now. So the point is at some point you want to get to the bottom of this so that you can realize your limitations and

And then we can get you into a better situation. But I know that's not the main reason you called. So, but it is probably relevant. So go ahead. What's your question? You're right. Yeah. Thank you for that. Calling that out actually made me think about it now. Okay. So they said they might be able to hire me or hire me back in a different position that works better. Great. You know, because they loved working with me. They were like, you tried your hardest. Yeah. We loved having you. Love that, by the way. We'd love to have you back. Love that. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, but, um, they knew that that position just wasn't right for me. So the problem here I'm having now is I'm now that, now that I'm unsure about my, uh, position, I do not have a personal vehicle for myself. Okay. Um, I have $8,500 saved up and I have a check that's probably going to be a thousand dollars, uh,

coming this Friday from work. And then I do not know, cause I don't want to buy like a $3,000 car because you can't find a $3,000 car on car gurus or on, uh, any of the more reputable, uh,

car sites. I go to Facebook and all the $3,000 cars are like, oh, just needs starter. Oh, just needs blank. It's like, okay, well... Well, you have money. The number one rule is don't go into debt for it. That's what I'm trying to do. With the cash you have on hand. Let's say we buy a $7,000 car. What's wrong with that?

And that's what makes me concerned, is I don't know how the—I'm not sure that the $7,000 cars are good long-term. Hold on a second. Well, long-term is irrelevant right now. This is not the car you're going to be driving for the next 15 years. That's right. But, you know, my last car before the one I own now was a $6,000 09 Civic.

And so by the time I got it, it was already 10 years old. And so it's okay to drive something that's older. And here's the deal. Get a pre-purchase inspection from an independent mechanic that you trust. That'll cost you a hundred bucks, 150 bucks. And then, you know, you're not buying a lemon. You know exactly what you're getting into. Okay.

and then buy it from a reputable dealer or person. Don't get scammed in the deal here. Make sure that all the pieces are lining up. Meet in a public place if it's not with an independent dealer. But you can go to an independent dealer right now in the Nashville area and find cars for $7,000. I'm looking at them right now. I'm in the $5,000 range. And here's a Honda CR-V. It's a 2002. It's old.

but it's only got 115,000 miles. Hey, it's got a lot of life left in it. For a Honda, that's a great deal. And it took me 30 seconds to pull this up. But here's what you don't do. Don't go to the new dealership car lot and go, hey, can I get a $7,000 car? They're going to steer you into the nicest, newest cars and go, what can you afford for a payment, young man? Oh, we can make that work. 400 bucks a month, sure. That's what you got to go in knowing exactly what you're doing. Go in with a check. Say, I've got 7,000 bucks and I'm leaving here with a car.

And if they tell you no, go to the next dealer. Hey, Christian. It's going to take some work. Christian, I am emailing you that car right now because it just so happens he's local and I don't want to say it over the, but I'm going to at least give him a start. This car right here, I've got the link. I'm sending it to Christian and he'll give it to you. Ken loves nothing more, Elijah, than researching cars. So you came to the right place. But you're doing the right thing. The next piece is no interruption of income. So how can we get you a job ASAP?

this week to where you're not going with zero dollars. Yeah. So what can you do? Hopefully they'll take me back into training for the new position. And what if they don't?

If they don't, that's what I'm concerned about. Okay, but that's where I was at earlier. A big buffer of money so that I can find a proper job. Right, so we start thinking. You need to start thinking and start looking. So what is a position, based on your past experience or even what the –

the mail service is telling you they're going to reassign you. What is the position? What kind of work is it? And do you feel that that's a good fit for you with some of your, it doesn't put you in a place of limitation. It puts you in a place of, of, of ability. What is that role? Something repetitive would probably work. Perfect. I think. What have you done in the past that has been something you've done well and you've shined in? Do you have anything?

Anything you've done in the past? Well, I'm 21, so the only jobs I've done up to this point was I was a librarian at my college, and I worked at a McDonald's, at a Burger King. Did you shine in those roles? In other words, you'd got the job done. It wasn't something where you were struggling behind other people. I guess, yeah. Great. The library job was... Great.

particularly easy. It was mostly just sitting there. And it's a slower paced environment. Here's the deal. You know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking your big box stores, your targets, your Walmart, your grocery stores. Could you get into some type of, again, very repetitive process heavy. It's not fast. It's not, you don't have to be fast. You just got to get the job done. Be thinking about those things because all of those places need people they can depend on. And Elijah, you got, you got character, right?

This has been established. They said, man, you're a good guy. We want you back. We just need you in a different role. That speaks to your character. So get your chin up, number one. Number two, get your eyes up. Start looking for some of those fallback opportunities. And check out the link that Kristen's going to give you. We just got you a car that you can pay cash for, my man. And it's still got plenty. A Honda? 115,000 miles on it? You can drive that to 2050. Yeah.

And minimal mechanic work. You drove a Honda forever. Love a Honda. Also, I warned you that you started, said chin up, eyes up, hopes up. There's your third one. Come on, bring it in. Right there. That's an alley-oop. That's as close as I'll get. Folks, they call that chemistry in the business. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey guys, good news. Pre-sale is on now for my new book, Build a Business You Love. If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard. That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre-order your copy today and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at ramsaysolutions.com slash store. ramsaysolutions.com slash store. Pre-order today.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. Hey, have you heard about Dave's new book, Build a Business That You Love? I have. Have you? Have you heard about it? Decided to read it. You know what I like about it? He says it's the baby steps for...

for building a business, for growing a business. He gives kind of the six stages of the business. Fantastic new book. And this is timely because we've got a new set of data that's come out, George, that says...

70% of Americans want to be self-employed, but only 6% are. Wow. And I think that the big gap, the reason is because it's very hard. It's intimidating. So whether you're somebody who wants to own your own business one day or you've launched or you've been at it and you just can't get to the next level. That's right. This is a great book for you. As I said, it's The Baby Steps for Running a Business. You can pre-order it now for $29.99 and you get over $350 worth of free bonus items, including...

The Entree Leadership Hiring Playbook, the e-book, and the audio book. And this book is, again, on pre-order right now. You buy it right now, and you get the best deal plus all the good stuff. RamseySolutions.com slash store. RamseySolutions.com slash store. And I got to say, Dave always has his picture on the cover of the books. That's kind of his thing. Yeah, that's a good photo. I think it might be his best photo ever.

He's got the smize going. Is that what it's called? I think. I don't know. A smize? Yeah. What's that? I think it's what Tyra Banks invented. I think that's what Dave was aiming for here. It's not a real smile? Yeah, we have the picture here if you're watching on YouTube. Oh, there it is, yeah. Yeah, it's not a teethy grin. No. It's just kind of a squinted smile. I know what I'm talking about. I feel pretty good about what I'm going to drop on you in this book. Exactly. A lot of confidence there. I like that. He's earned it. Yeah, he looks as cool as the other side of the pillow. I think he's got a shacket on.

um which you and i let's just call let's just call it out stole that from us he did he made fun of us when we first started wearing shackets i think i dropped the word on him which is a shirt jacket if anyone's confused out there and uh true story and he made fun of me you know shacket three weeks later what's he wearing shacket a shacket you know what happened

He made fun of us when we weren't around in front of Sharon, and Sharon validated it. Oh, I like Ken's jacket. I think so. I think it's exactly what happened. So we'll never know. I'll ask him next time he's in. Kara is up next in Casper, Wyoming. You ever been to Casper? Have not. Would love to visit. Me too. Kara, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for having me on. You bet. What's going on? So my husband and I are looking for a home to buy, but we were wondering if it's financially smarter for us to buy a starter home within the next year or just save up for five years and buy our dream forever home. Well, why don't you describe for George the starter, what the cost is, how big it is, and then what you consider the dream home and how much that is.

to get us started. Give us those descriptions. Okay. So starter would be under $250,000, maybe a three-bedroom, two-bathroom. Okay. We already have two kids, a three-year-old and a one-year-old. Are you all renting right now? We are renting. Okay.

So our dream home would be around $400,000, and I guess in five years from now with appreciation value, $480,000. So it might take us more like six years. And you're sure that's your dream home? Yeah, when you said forever, those are red flags to me because as a millennial, we have moved like four times since we've been married, and every next home is the dream home.

Yeah, so I'm not sure, but I am sure that we would be in there. I mean, I'm not sure of anything, but I would hope that we would be in there. That's the honesty I'm looking for. That's what we wanted you to know. We just wanted you to, because a part of answering this question is for you to get to the mindset of going, that's what my dream is now, but in the grand scheme of things, a lot can change. How old are you and your husband?

So I'm 21 and my husband is 23. Oh, sweet. Time is ticking, Kara. Sweet girl. You are truly, truly a child. And I don't mean that in a mean way. I mean, like compared to me. Now, Ken has boots older than you and I know that for a fact. That's an absolute truth, by the way. Sadly. He takes care of them, but yeah. Sadly true. Okay. So I want to make the right choice. Yeah. So are you guys debt free?

We are. So we paid off $32,000 left of our debt last year, and then we're one month shy of saving up our six-month emergency fund. How's that, George? So you're on the cusp of now getting into that baby step 3B, which is saving up a down payment. Yes. So even then, we're not even, this even starter home, it wouldn't be for another year or two. Yeah. Yeah. There was some hesitation there. You didn't say that with confidence. Do you know why he's saying it's a year or two away?

Why? We don't know how you're going to get up that down payment with your income. We don't know. You've got to explain it to us. How are we going to sock that away? Okay. How much do you plan on putting down? Well, if it's $250,000, hopefully $50,000. Okay. But I saw a lot of nice homes in the $230,000 range, too. Okay. How long would it take you to save up $50,000? So...

So my husband, he makes $110,000 gross, so it's $90,000 spent. And our yearly bills, just like rent and electricity and gas, are around $30,000. All of your bills only add up to $30,000 a year? So that's rent, electric, and gas. Okay, I'm talking all in, groceries, insurance. Really, $38,000. So let's say $4,000 a month is your expenses, and you're bringing home $7,000. So you've got $3,000 spread that you could sock away.

Maybe $3,500 if we get tight, right? Mm-hmm. So that's $42,000 in a year you could save up. So in a little over a year, you guys will have $50,000 saved up. And if you do it in a high-yield savings account, that'll help speed it up a little bit. And so let's start talking a year from now, we're going to start home shopping for a $250,000 house. Sound good? Okay.

Yeah. And is that smarter than waiting these, I'm guessing? That's what I would do. Because you hit the nail on the head. It's a moving goalpost. That $400,000 home five years from now is going to be a $520,000 home. And so I would rather you get your foot in the door with a very reasonable mortgage payment, 25% of take-home pay on a 15-year fixed. And then who knows, four years from now, if you keep doing 50 grand a year on that mortgage, you're going to knock it out in four years.

Do you see the math on that? That is our plan to put as much. Yeah, now you're set. And that's what my wife and I did. We rolled over the 100% equity in our townhome that we had into our next home, which then gave us a very reasonable mortgage payment, and then we paid that off fast. So do you see how this kind of snowballs and allows you to not jump into too much home and add stress to your life?

Yes. And it gives you options. So the reason we like you getting the starter home is what George just laid out. Because here's the deal. Five, seven years from now, the dream home might be an $800,000 house with a nice pool.

And you can get it. And every home is a temporary home until the Lord takes us to our eternal home. Isn't that right, Ken? Wow. Are you writing Christian greeting cards all of a sudden? I'm going to jot that down. That's good. You should probably submit that to Christian Hallmark or whatever that is. But, Kara, are you with us on that? That's the smart play. It gives you momentum. Okay. It makes you become a great investor right out of the gate. You guys have no debt. And that home is going to appreciate. That's the point. So that might be a $350,000 home five years from now and it's paid for. Okay. Okay.

You tracking with this? Yeah, I guess I've never moved before, so I was worried about, I don't know how much that costs. But you've never been married before, right? Like, this is a whole new deal. You're only 21. So, you know...

You guys are in incredible shape to even be doing this a year from now at your age is you are so far ahead of the curve. A lot of people aren't buying their home. I just saw the stat, Ken. It's moving and moving and moving. Now people are entering home ownership into their 30s instead of their early 20s or mid 20s like it was back in the day because of home prices. Yeah.

And because of debt, it's holding them back from buying a house. So the fact that you guys are debt-free, got the emergency fund, the down payment's going to be there, you're not biting off more than you can chew, that will help you build wealth. They're just moving slow and steady. That's right. And for all the reasons that that current house in the $400 range is a dream home,

For all those reasons, most likely, it doesn't matter to the kids. They're so little. They don't even know. They'll look back on this first home and think it was huge. Oh, yeah. Do you remember that? I love that. Going back to your original house, and you're kind of like –

This was like a matchbox. Oh, yeah. How did we live in this? And I remember as a kid thinking, this place is huge. We had one little tiny bathroom. If you open the door, you'd hit the person on the toilet. That's how small this bathroom was that all four of us shared growing up. I resonate with that. Yeah, we shared a bathroom with my mom and dad. But now the standard is, well, every kid's got to have their own bathroom. Boundaries. Yeah. Privacy. Yeah. We've lost our mind. We've lost our ever-loving mind. Wow. All right. Well, good hour. Good times. Yeah.

Man, thanks to George Campbell. Sorry it got apocalyptic there, Ken. I just had to bring it, bring us home. It was just very heavenly. You were just writing some great stuff there. Thanks to James Childs and our fearless crew for keeping us on the air. Thank you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show.

You're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.