Nobody Builds Wealth by Accident
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Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with bestselling author and my good friend, Jade Warshaw, and we are answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. We'll be talking about your life, your money, your relationships, your

Your careers? All of it. Anything and everything, we are here for you. So first off, kicking us off this hour is Jocelyn in Lubbock, Texas. Hi, Jocelyn. Welcome to the show. Well, for taking my call, how are you doing? We're doing great. How can we help? Well, actually, my husband and I have been together for 26 years. We have three sons, and he works as a software developer, and I'm a stay-at-home mom for 20 years.

and he handled all the monies and I take care of the kids. So it worked quite well until eight years ago. I kind of expect him to step up for our twin son, but that didn't happen. So I wasn't happy and then our marriage turns out. And then since then, I no longer allowed to know the household finance. He gave me a credit card to buy food and necessity for the kid and, you know, for the family.

but I don't know how much he makes anymore. And he doesn't even ask me to sign the, um, tax return filing. So I really don't know what's going on. And I asked him, um, well, during the COVID, he almost died at the hospital. And I asked him, um, you know, the password to pay the bills on his laptop. And, uh, you know, he refused to do that. And,

and then I had to bring his laptop to the hospital but then after he get better and he got home and I told her him that you know I should know our finance and just in case if he goes to the hospital again and he said you know he'll he said I will figure out after he died oh my gosh yes so we have been living like a housemate and I take care of the kids and like a man

married single mom and um he's like a married bachelor total check out so i don't know what i should do from this point on and um you know this is my only marriage and i have you know like i think this is it for me but then i don't know how to turn this thing around yeah i'm so sorry

Thank you. How old are your kids? My oldest one is 16. It's going to be 19. And I have twins. They are going to be 16. Okay. So, I mean, they are probably getting out of the house soon. Yeah, I mean, at this point, Jocelyn, from the information you've given us, to me, this is...

way more of a marriage issue. I think the effect and the symptom is that he's isolated himself with the money, which is a problem in and of itself, but it is a symptom of what's going on from the root of your marriage. And so, like you said, which I would agree, the context clues you've given us is exactly right. You don't have a marriage, right? I mean, this is not a relationship where there's a partnership and there's two people doing life together. You guys have

two completely different lives is what it feels like and you just happen to live under the same roof. Well, the problem is I'm the only person who lives in this country so I think he sees that as I have no support system. So that may be the reason why he can take advantage of my situation and I have nowhere to go. I mean, and I have been, you know, being a stay-at-home mom for 20 years. Do you have friends? Do you have anybody here outside of family that you can trust? Yeah.

I can talk to anybody, but if they are good listeners, but not really, you know, practically could be helpful, you know, like in the deep situation. But I have a lot of friends I could talk to. I mean, they listen to my problem and they understand. So you're not alone. I'm not alone. Have you voiced this? I mean, aside from like COVID situations where it's really, you know, stressed or extreme, have you...

had this conversation with him, brought it up, not in the midst of an argument and just said, hey, here's the way I'm feeling. Have you done that? And what's been the response? Here's the thing. A lot of times he's very calm and soft, like quiet. Like if he can counter all the problems, he will be quiet. Like, you know, basically it's,

It's his way that I have to learn to adapt, which I'm very flexible and adaptable. But a lot of time it's like, this is the way. And I mean, maybe he's willing to share the information of the finance. He was able to give me. He's clearly not because you don't have it. So he's not. And my worry is, is that he, he has a level of control and power over you, Jocelyn, that is so scary and unhealthy where you have no options or choices. Yeah.

So I think one of the best things you can do is put yourself in a position where you have options and choices. And so where that starts from a tactical standpoint is money. Because like you said, like I'm a stay-at-home mom. I don't have money. And so it starts to be very, very hard lines for me of you either give me full access to our money.

Or there's going to be a more intense step of something else. And I think, Jocelyn, I mean, and again, this is your decision. And I always, these calls, I feel like a lot of weight and responsibility because we'll get off with you here in about three minutes, Jocelyn, and you're going to have to make these decisions. So what I am sensing and laying out for you, this is life changing. And I want to just be careful of how I even communicate.

coat this, but I would be setting myself up possibly for a new life. People stay in marriages where they're unhappy, but it's one thing to be unhappy in a marriage. You go through the ranks, you do what you can. It's another to have no power or control over your own life where they've taken that from you. And I feel like that's what he's done where you don't have...

freedom to make even a decision to leave at this point because you have no access to money or information beyond that. So I would be getting myself in a position for you to get access for the money, not only just to heal the marriage, which I hope helps, but it just doesn't, to me, it seems like there's less hope of that turning around and

And probably more of a reality of you realizing, oh my gosh, I have one life to live. And unless he's willing to do intense work in therapy and us walk through this together, which I would pray that would be the best, that's the best outcome. But would he ever do that? Would he ever go through it? Not for money, but for your marriage, a marriage intensive therapy. He's very passive. He's really what? He's very passive in life.

So it's either I am the one who is being the, you know, the lead and plan for everything for the household or nothing gets done. Well, if you planned it and said, I have a therapist and I want to go every Tuesday for the next nine months with you at three o'clock every Tuesday, would he go?

Probably, yeah. Okay. I don't know if I want that either. Why? I don't know because it's, to me, I have so much accumulation of the grief, anger, or, you know, like...

I don't know. I mean, it's a lot. Listen, what you're saying is I think I get what you're saying. Like, you don't want to open the can of worms, right? Like, there's a lot there. And the truth is, when you do go through therapy, it creates it's almost like it creates more work for you to do more to work through. It's not just like a quick fix, right? It's going to create more and more. The work is on me. So it's like constantly. So that's what the majority of the problem is.

Yeah. So, I mean, if I were you, Jocelyn, you need somebody, I think a professional in your corner and go get individual work for you. Because like you said, you're harboring and holding a lot in life towards him, which makes complete sense why. And then I think over time, it's going to get more and more clear of what you need to do, either pressing more into the marriage or not. But I would be making some hard lines to at least have access to the money. You have to have that.

in my head. I mean, that needs to be your first step. Whew.

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Well, tax season is right around the corner. And one of the best things that you can do for your finances is to get a good tax pro in your corner that you can trust. This is one of the areas of money that can be very confusing. And so making sure you do it right the first time is important. So having somebody that you know is able to help you is really, really key. And so, yeah, these tax pros are going to really help you figure out the best moves for your situation.

especially if it's a little confusing. If you have a small business, if you've had major changes this year, if you've moved, had kids, got married, you know, all the things. So go to ramseysolutions.com slash taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team. Again, that's ramseysolutions.com slash taxpro. Next is, is this Isaiah? Yeah, from San Antonio. Hey, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

Awesome. So basically, I'm 18 and I got married this year in January. And I'm super young. I own a home service business with my actual twin brother. So both 18. And we've been running this for about a year and a half. And I just want to know if I should maybe look at getting a traditional job because there is an opportunity for right now to make more money. What do you mean?

Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. I thought you were finished. Keep going. All good.

Yeah, so I just want to know if maybe looking at getting a traditional job would be a better idea just for consistent income. I also moved out this year, so maybe, well, late last year, so basically this year, but all kind of happened at the same time, so I have a lot more responsibility, a lot more bills. And I just want to know if maybe getting a traditional job, specifically something in sales where I'm something I'm already really proficient at, where I have the opportunity, you know, to make a lot of money,

I just want to know if maybe that is a better avenue to take than continuing to grow this business, especially with the inconsistencies that can often come with small businesses. Maybe. I mean, what are you making right now and what are you guys projecting?

So, uh, right now I make anywhere between like five to 700, sometimes on a good week, a thousand dollars a week. And, um, you know, it's not a lot. Um, we, we pretty much, we split most of the income down the middle, uh, me and my brother and, you know, we leave some for, uh, you know, bills and leads and, you know, all the overhead that we have for our business, which is pretty

Pretty minor. But you personally take home as your pay somewhere between $2,000 and $4,000 a month is what you're saying? Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Okay. And it fluctuates very heavily. But it fluctuates between the $2,000 and $4,000? Yes, ma'am. Yeah, I would say. How long have you guys been doing that? About a year and a half now. Okay. And what are the other options? You said, should I get a better job in sales? Do you have ideas of what that might look like or has someone offered you something that

Yeah. So I, uh, I got an offer like a while back, uh, for car sales position. And then I've also done my own research and looked into different sales positions from, um, companies that are kind of similar, honestly, to what I've been doing already, like selling. So like, you know, roofing and, you know, stuff like that. Yeah. Um, does, does your wife work? Yes, ma'am. Yeah, she does. What does she bring home?

Uh, she brings home. So she makes, uh, she just recently got a raise. So she makes $17 an hour and she works full time. So guys per month, what would you say she's going to bring home? Um, I would say, uh, I, uh, like, I don't know, maybe like, uh,

Okay. Max. Go ahead, Rachel. For your household, for you guys, as you said, you have a lot more responsibility because you've moved out. You guys are on your own. How much does it take to run your household per month? Have you guys done a detailed budget?

Yeah, so we don't have a super detailed budget. We've only really been home from our honeymoon for three weeks. But it's roughly the bills for rent and utilities and pretty much everything that we have to pay the company that we live under is around $2,000 a month. And then obviously gas and everything else is probably...

a couple hundred dollars a month. And we know groceries is roughly at least $100 a week. Okay. Something like that. So I think what would be driving this for me, this decision, is number one, knowing and doing a detailed budget. And before you get off the phone, we will hook you up with some stuff for you guys to sit down as newlyweds and figure this out. Because, you know, so what would drive me, number one, is making sure that we can cover everything we need from food, utilities, transportation,

transportation, all of that. And do you guys have any debt? No, ma'am. Neither of us have any debt. Okay, great. Yeah. So just knowing, hey, this is what we need to live off of. Can we live off of this with me doing this small business and your wife working? And if this is a small business, the other caveat is, is this where you want to be long-term? Like if you looked up in five years, do you want this business to grow? Is this what you want to do? Is this what you enjoy? Yeah.

Yes, man. Yeah. So I do enjoy what I do. Like, you know, obviously the home services itself, like the pressure washing and window washing is not really like my preferred, like, I don't

I don't think anyone really, like, loves, loves that. I mean, some people do. But, you know, running a business, I do enjoy it, especially with my brother. Yeah. You know, we have a good time and we work hard. But, you know, I also wouldn't mind, you know, working a sales job. It's always been something that's been in my head. Yeah, that's what – I didn't know if there was something you were doing that was a passion and you were like, this is what I want to do for the foreseeable future. But if it's kind of like a, it's fine and it's fun to run a business –

And you can make more somewhere else. I mean, why not do both? It feels like from what you described, especially based on the pay and the like some timey nature of it, it feels like it could be more of a hobby side hustle as it grows, if it continues to grow, and maybe you continue to do it. But why can't you do this job while you do another job?

Like, is this like you've got a book of business? Is it something that your brother takes on more of the load and you take on a smaller load? So you still got, I don't know, a thousand bucks coming in a month, but you're still doing another full time job. Yeah, actually, I've never even thought of that. And that's a really good thought, just because he already like he almost takes a more lead role in the business anyway, just with his.

I don't know. He just, he just always has, he's just been more kind of hands-on always than me. Um, and so I, I've actually never thought of that, you know, almost me just taking more of a, a backseat and just doing it as a part-timer side hustle, you know,

Yeah, I like that idea because at least you have some stability. It's almost like you can keep doing this until you land the thing that you want to do and then you can pull back on that. But it still serves as a really great side hustle because you guys are just getting started and there's a lot in front of you. So being able to

to stack up cash and kind of just like get the wheels going, I think is going to be good. And I like what Rachel said about really deciding long-term what that looks like, like what your wife wants to do, is there school or any sort of training in the future that you might need to pay for? So really stacking up money in this phase is also really good. Yeah. Yeah. And this is, this is jumping a little bit ahead, but something to think about because the business is small. So you guys may not, but just know small business, especially when there's a partnership and especially between brothers, right?

If this thing starts to scale and you guys start doing this long term, I would have some very formal documentation right up, even sitting down with like a business lawyer to make sure that the terms and everything, ownership, stock, I mean, anything that you guys in the future, if this starts to become important,

and more long-term that you really want to think about because sadly, I think people get into this small business with a friend or with a sibling and it all is great and fun and then it starts to grow and then we just see anything with money or business when you're with someone close, the more communication, the more that you lay out ahead of time, the less messy it gets down the road because I just don't want this to hurt a relationship down the road.

That if he feels like you're not doing as much, but he's doing it all, but yet you still have 50% ownership. But you know what I mean? Like just talking through all the agreements and all the situations. I actually definitely know exactly what you're talking about. Like me and my brother, we're twins, so we have a very close relationship. But there's even times where this has put a lot of strain on our relationship just because especially since we both have bills, we both have responsibilities. There's a lot kind of,

Yeah, and Isaiah, it may be one of these things you look up and you're like, hey, he can take it and own it and you can get paid out and you work for him. Work for him for a season two. That feels better to me already. Yeah, because I'm going to be honest, before he started it initially himself,

before I ever joined him and quit the job I had and came and started working with him. And before I ever joined him, he was making a lot more than he's making now, which is kind of sad to admit that. But a year and a half, we've really grown. There are weeks that we've just blown it out of the park and we're so happy. For sure. Yeah. Sorry, I have to cut you off. We're going to a break. But yeah, I would have that conversation with him and maybe there's a sense that he owns it and you work for him making some extra money. This is The Ramsey Show. ♪

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That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Shannon in Alaska. She says, how do I save up for a divorce when I'm in debt? I separated from my husband of eight years after he committed multiple incidents of financial infidelity. I've since increased my income to $100,000.

which was what we brought in combined when he could work. The problem is that we have tons of debt, including money owed to the IRS and credit cards. The house is in my name only, and I don't want to move our kids out due to their current schools. Do I treat saving for a divorce as a sinking fund or should I pull from my retirement so I don't have to spend more time in this marriage? That's a really good question. Um,

The good news is you are making money, like you're making a good living, not just for a married couple, but for a single person. So that's a good part of it. It sounds like you're spending a lot of the income on like whittling away at the debt, if I understood that correctly. So I would pause that. I would pause whittling away at the debt because the truth is once you get divorced, it's going to get the assets are going to get split. The debt's going to get split. And I don't want you paying money.

more than your share at this point plus you've got to pay for the divorce so yeah right now I treat this like storm mode and I would stop and I would save up and I'd really kind of put my feelers out there and find out like how much is this going to cost me how much can I save up for it and it doesn't say whether or not they're separated oh she does say I separated okay so I would kind of

take my time and make sure I have the money because it sounds like you're in your own life at this point. The paperwork just hasn't been done. And so rather than go deeper into debt, yeah, I'd save up for it and pay as you go. It's not like you have to have the entire lump sum all at once. Yeah. And especially depending on who you hire to help you with it, if they want to retain her or whatnot. So I would say that. And depending on the states, I mean, divorces, depending on the state, have different clauses and-

It depends really state by state. But usually with the assets, yeah, it'll be split, including the debt. And so what that looks like from keeping kids...

Like you taking the house, meaning less assets. You have to make sure the debt is all paid, but keeping the kids in school, all of that. And we get that call a lot of people that have taken on. I got this call with John Deloney last week, and she took the house to keep the kids in, and she can't afford the mortgage anymore. So there's a lot. Money is just one.

one factor of a divorce when a marriage ends and it's just horrible and terrible for everyone around. But making sure, Shannon, that yeah, you're setting yourself up well and that especially in something like this, that the emotions don't drive all of this because that's where some people get into financial trouble is they just, they want to protect the kids, which makes total sense. And if you can, absolutely. But also I want to make sure that you're doing logical things to set you up well, where you will have more peace and

and less stress when it comes to money after the smoke clears with this. But I'm so sorry you're going through that, Shannon. That's just, that's so difficult. Up next, we have Aaron from San Francisco, from the Bay Area. Hi, Aaron. Welcome to the show. Hey, thank you so much for having me on. It's a pleasure to speak with you. Absolutely. How can we help? I'll do my best to be brief and succinct here. But essentially, my wife and I have been presented with an opportunity by my in-laws, her parents,

to take over a business that they've built very successfully. And the caveat to it that is making us a little uncomfortable is that they're offering half of the business to us, half to her brother, where they would essentially gift us half of the value of the business, which has no debt. We would owe them back for the other half, but we'd be in partnership with her brother. Now we love her parents, love her brother. As a family, there's no real issues,

but we both come from family businesses that we've seen just create a lot of turmoil and a lot of pain kind of in both of our families. And so when we got married, we swore that we would never go into any type of family business. It would never be something that we would pursue. And then this opportunity came up and we want to,

We want to be wise. We've worked really hard to get out of debt, have been longtime listeners and adherence to, you know, to Ramsey's baby steps. And so we just feel like, man, are we going backwards by jumping into debt and going into a family business? Yeah, so I have a question. Her parents, yeah, it's their business. Yeah.

And let me make sure I understand the terms correctly. Are they needing you to buy them out, basically, for them to retire? Or are they gifting you all the business? Like, are they basically going to put you guys as owners? Yeah, they're essentially gifting us half the business, and then we would owe them back for the other half of what it's worth. Almost as if it was kind of an early inheritance, essentially. They want to...

My mother-in-law has expressed, you guys are good kids. You work hard. I'd like to help you out before I die. And I think they're looking for a way to do that. So Aaron, are they owning half and then you all and the brother have half? So you basically have like a third? A third, yeah. Or is it that the brother has the other half and you all have the other half?

Yeah, so we would owe mom and dad back for 50% of the appraised value of the business. And then my brother-in-law would own a quarter. My wife and I would own a quarter. Okay, so you and the brother together have to... You guys owe together 50%. So you're 25 and he's 25. How much is that? Yes, ma'am. That's correct. How much will that be? About...

So your cut of that's $2 million, you and your wife's cut? Correct. Okay. But

But if you didn't, if you didn't, like what's the projection on being out of debt? Like, have you run the numbers to see, okay, if we did this. Yeah. What's your cash position now? You and your wife.

So not $2 million, that's for sure. Not whatsoever. I mean, we're doing, you know, I think okay, but, you know, just maybe a couple hundred thousand. Yeah, I think, honestly, the cleanest way that I see going forward would be, would the parents consider just selling the business and then giving you guys part of the inheritance early in life where there doesn't have to be this ownership loop that happens? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. That's another that's kind of another piece of the conversation that that we're looking at. But it looks like they're leaning more towards because it's a family of business owners. I think they like the idea of giving us an opportunity to grow a business. But do you like that business? Is it your passion as a person or your wife's?

Uh, no, truthfully, no. I wouldn't say that it's a passion, but we're passionate about the opportunity. Well, what kind of business is it? What is it? It's like a real estate company, essentially. Okay. So what you're... Sorry. Oh, no, I'm just, I mean, what you said is really profound to me because what you're interested, you're interested basically in the money, but you're not interested in...

the work, like the type of work that it is. And I mean, I get it, but I don't think that that would be a good reason. I feel like that's the recipe for disaster as you get into this. It's not what you love. It's not what you're passionate about. The business suffers. You feel some type of way because you're having to carry this thing that you didn't really want, right? You just cared about, well, yeah, it feels nice to have the stake. Like there's a possibility to really have a lot of money long-term, but I like Rachel's plan a lot better. Yeah.

So Aaron, there's a way that this all works perfectly and everyone's great. That's just a very small percentage of all the things that can go wrong. And when you start adding the layers of complexity from the parents still have 50% ownership, you have 25%. There's a brother that has 25%. It's in an industry you don't know and you owe on top of that. You're having to pay your way out of it.

And again, people do this and it works, but it's such a small percentage of nothing going wrong from a financial or a relational aspect. And so, you know, what I would do, it would be unfair for your wife to be cut out of a deal from an inheritance standpoint where the brother somehow gets it all because he wants to take on the debt.

So they're neat. You guys, I mean, honestly, with this amount, because we're talking about a $6 million deal here. So I would sit down with a family business estate planner and start kind of walking through. I want multiple options for you and your wife, Erin, where there's a level of fairness within the family, but also you have multiple options of what you guys can do versus just A and B. It's too big of a conversation to limit it to two because I think there's other ways around this. And I would get a professional involved from a family business standpoint and estate planner. Yeah.

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On this show, we talk about living like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. And so this whole journey when it comes to your money and us talking about this so often, you know, there's a season of sacrifice of getting out of debt and saving up cash. You know, 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency in cash. So, you know,

even getting above that step, right? I mean, like there's like these small wins along the baby steps. And then you get to a point where you actually start to get to build wealth. And within that, you-

change your family tree you have options and choices with your life you get to be unbelievably generous and you know that starts that that's the second half of this journey so we always like to highlight some stories of people that have accomplished the first part and as they move into that second part or living in the second part of living and giving like no one else always get to talk to them and share their story with you all and so we have rob from new york city on the line and he is a baby steps millionaire thanks for the call rob

Hey, how's it going? Doing great. Okay, so tell us your net worth right now. That's about $1.1 million. Okay, and what does that consist of?

So we have about, my wife and I combined about 480 in our retirement accounts and then 520 equity in our home. We have about $80,000 in paid for vehicles, $10,000 emergency fund, and about 20,000 miscellaneous investments. Amazing. Okay. So for your income, what was the worst year from an income standpoint that you guys made and what's been the best year? I mean...

When I first started my career full-time, probably about $50,000 income. And now it's $150,000. And then my wife probably started around $30,000 and is now $90,000. Okay, awesome. How old are you guys? I'm 33. My wife's 35. Wow, way to go. Well done. Was any of this money inherited? No.

Ironically, we actually just were gifted $50,000, but that was after we hit our millionaire status. Okay, yep. So the inheritance did not equate or help in that sense advance it. And what do you guys do? What do you and your wife do?

I'm a police sergeant for a small city and my wife is a high school special ed teacher. Wow. Both just public servants. Yeah. Police and teacher. Yeah. Rob, you guys are literally your part. Like when we do our millionaire studies, the one, the recent one that came out teacher was in the top five of millionaires. And so, yeah. And you guys, I mean, that, that's it. Did you guys go to school? I guess she did obviously for teaching. What's your, what's your, do you have any higher ed?

Yeah, so I actually, I don't need any college degree for my career, but I do have an associate's and I am going back online. My job is paying for it. Okay. And then my wife has a master's, obviously, as you can imagine. Yes. You guys are pretty young, I mean, to accomplish this. This is a major accomplishment. So my guess is you've avoided debt or did you have a big amount of debt to pay off? Tell us about that.

No, I mean, I made some dumb purchases early on. I bought a new truck and a new motorcycle when I first started my career, but I quickly paid it off and then just saved and saved prior to buying a home. Wow. Well, clearly that paid off, like that way of life of getting out and staying out of debt paid off. Wow. That's amazing. Okay, so what do you tell someone? Because you guys are in your early 30s, which again is so impressive. Yeah.

because I think that there's, you know, it's hard out there, and a lot of people feel this tension of either the paycheck-to-paycheck cycle. They feel inflation when you go grocery shopping. Like, life feels expensive, and just keeping up for some people just feels hopeless, and they're just trying to get traction. And they look at you guys as like, oh, my gosh, I could never imagine, you know, being at that state. So what encouragement do you have for people out there of –

Kind of the American dream that it's still this ability that you get to make choices in your life. And, you know, from a timeline perspective, it may be different for everyone. But what would you tell someone out there that wants to be you guys in the next 10 years? Just work really hard, have a plan and live within your means.

That's all there is to it. And that's the secret. Yeah. I mean, truly though, like we say all the time, it's a simple concept. The work is hard, but it's simple to talk about doing. Which I so appreciate it because again, I think there's so much, especially on social media and everything, it's like this attention grab of what can I do today to get me something different tomorrow where I just make tons of money. Like it's like this quick approach, but it really does come back to this common sense mindset

way of living of below your means. Know what you're doing. Pay attention. Stay away from debt. And it's incredible what you can do. Well, I love this example. They're 33 and 35 years old. They started out making 50 to 150. I mean, for each of them, nobody is making 300,000. You know what I'm saying? And they're not in their 60s or even in their 50s. And so I really do think this is a great example of how if you just...

avoid debt and whatever debt you have, you pay it off as quickly as possible. And then it's just, all right, we're stacking, we're maxing out our 401ks, we're maxing out our IRAs. I mean-

Yeah. So Rob, my last question for you is when we talk about building wealth, it is not just to like accumulate dollars in an account, right? There's so much of our world and society that there's like such a pride and this like ego driven thing of like, what's my net worth, right? But doing it so that you're able to be generous and have margin to do things. So what has living life in this way, in a common sense way with money that you guys have succeeded and are Baby Steps millionaires, what

What's the pro of it? What would you say is the advantage besides just having money?

I mean, really just having that financial security. We have two kids and one on the way, so just never having to worry about food and paying utilities. That's just big for us. We work just as hard as we do now with a really good income as we did when we didn't have a good income. So no matter what our net worth is, we just stay focused and keep working hard. Owning a home is insanely expensive, especially in New York. So, you know,

People out there that questioning renting, you have no idea how expensive it gets until you start having to replace things yourself and paying insane electric bills. So it's not easy, but you have to just keep working hard and stay focused.

Yeah. So good. So great. Well, Rob, we really appreciate you. Yep. Calling and sharing your story. I always think it's encouraging and hopeful just to hear from, you know, from real life people that are doing it. So thank you, Rob, for your time. I appreciate it. It's also I feel like I feel like that call really cut through a lot of the stigmas, even the the home purchasing part of it where it's like,

uh there was a lady that called in a couple of days ago and she's like we're you know we're we're millionaires including our house but my husband says we shouldn't include our house you know that kind of thing i'm like just because you're even if your home's not paid off yet if you still have the equity like that's still counting towards this so it's like yeah i mean it's still value yeah it's still value and assets and so i just love their story really good yep so good

All right. From TikTok, Jade. Are you ready? Yeah. A little TikTok action from Sydney. Okay. She's asking, is it worth consolidating debt if the interest rate is lower?

I would not consolidate. I don't know if she's talking about student loans or just in general. No, she didn't say. We can make the caveat with student loans. Yeah, with student loans, even on that, sometimes I'm on the fence because let's say you have a total of $70,000 of debt, but it's broken up into little bits and pieces. On the one hand, if you're working a debt snowball, that can be so motivating to say, okay, I just knocked out the $5,000 one and now I'm doing the $7,000 one. But

But when it's a big chunk, even though it's a lower interest rate, sometimes that can be very, very overwhelming. So part of me, it's kind of like your personality type on that. But for student loans, I will tell you, I tend to be one of the people that's like, hey, if you can go quicker and be motivated, the interest rate might not matter as much in the end. Because I know for Sam and I, our last student loan was a $91,000 student loan. I was going to ask how much. I knew it was your largest one. And it was one chunk. And I was like, shook. Yeah.

I was just like, no, God, no. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. So that's probably the reason that I would take that approach. Obviously, mathematically speaking, you would say, yeah, if you can get a lower interest rate, do that. But these consolidation companies, like when we talk about debt consolidation, the ones you see at midnight, those are the worst. I would never pay someone to do for me what I can do for myself, which is basically...

ask for a lower payment or get yourself on a payment plan. Those are all things you can do on your own. You don't need to pay somebody a lump sum. You don't need to tank your credit in order to get a deal, right? Like all of those things. So I would not use one of those like late night

consolidation situations. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it is, it's a question we always get and it always goes back to, it's more than just math. Yes. Right. From a mathematical standpoint, sure. But also from the motivational standpoint, totally different. And you actually can get out faster with better motivation. That's right. Just right. So, so great. Well, Jade, thanks for the great hour. Thanks to all the guys in the booth and thank you, America. We'll be back.

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Try it today and get 15% off at fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey. Promo code Ramsey. Fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey. Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with best-selling author and my good friend, Jade Warshaw, and we are answering your questions about life and money and...

relationships career anything and everything so give us a call at 888-825-5225 and we will be taking your calls this hour up first we have maya in atlanta georgia hi maya welcome to the show hi thank you so much can you hear me yes we can how can we help you today maya

I am terrified, to be honest. I'm expecting my first child soon. Congratulations. Thank you.

I am in a very big hole. I'm considering filing bankruptcy just because that's kind of what's been recommended to me by a couple of friends. But I'm just more so looking for guidance because I don't really know where to start or what to do or if that's even the best option for my situation. Yeah. Well, tell us more. How much debt are you in? A little over $200,000. Oh, wow. And what kind of debt is that?

So it's kind of a mix. About $25,000 of it is strictly credit cards. $14,000 is from student loans. And then the remainder is pretty much delinquent, like previous bills that I am behind on or kind of got charged off or auto loans. Tell us about the auto loans.

Okay, so I had a car rental business that started last year, but it's pretty much a failed business at this point because I'm not really making any revenue. And I've considered and tried multiple times selling the vehicles and, you know, trying to trade them in. How many? There's five different ones. Can you go through and tell us the story on each of them, like what you owe on it and what it's worth?

Yes. So there's five different ones. I can pull it up if you give me one second. Sure. So what were you doing, like Turo or something? Yes. Okay. And so my guess is you pulled debt on all of these vehicles with the intent to rent them. Correct. And you ran up the miles on them, so probably they depreciated very quickly, but you just weren't making the spread that you thought you would. Is that what...

Right. One of the vehicles actually started out as a personal vehicle, but then I eventually, of course, used it for the business side of things once I resigned from my previous job. Got it. Okay. Okay. So that makes sense because before when you said, hey, 25,000 credit cards, 14,000 student loans, the rest is in like other stuff. I'm like, gosh, that's like $160,000 in other. Okay. It makes sense now that it's cars.

Do you have that info? If not, we can move on to the next thing. I do have all of the cars and how much is owed on each one. But as far as the value of them, I kind of got the information a little while back. So it's not as up to date. Okay. Well, as much as we can go through them and kind of give you some insight. So the first car, let's call it car number one. What do you owe on it? The first one I owed $24,000. And what do you think it'd be worth, private sale?

Um, what I've tried or what I got last information on was about 20,000. Okay. And how long ago was that information? Probably about three to four months ago. And this is for all of them about three to four months ago. Okay. So one is 20, your $4,000 upside down. Okay. Not as bad as I thought. What's the next one? The second one is about 28,000. It's what's 28,007 is what's owed on it. Mm-hmm.

Do you want me to keep going on the other one? You said you owe $28,000. And you can get $28,000 from it? As far as that one's worth, it's probably a couple months ago, it was around $25,000 is what it was worth. Okay. What about car number three?

Number three is $37,500. Okay. What I was told it was worth is about maybe $33,000-ish and some change. And just for clarity, what did you go to, like a CarMax type place? Where did you get that information?

Correct. That's why I got them all previously appraised. Okay, that's good to know. The good news is what I want to encourage you, like before we even get through the list, the good news is CarMax value is like probably the lowest value you would get for them. If you sold these private sale, you might actually break even. Yeah, yep. So keep going. Let's hear number four, number five real quick, and then Rachel and I will give you our advice.

Okay. Number four is about 40,000. Um, that's old on it. And I, that's the one that I really don't know what it's worth. Um, but if I'm guessing it's probably about 5,000 upside down, but I'm not a hundred percent. Okay. And then the final one, the final one is 42,002 is what's old. And, um,

The last time I got it appraised, it was about $6,000 upside down. Okay. Okay. So the good news is I really think for sure the first three, if you sold them private sale, you could probably break even or get really, really close. But I think if I were in your shoes, and I'm not saying this, this is not a sexist comment by any means, but I'd be getting with whoever I know that...

has a little bit more cojones in this area and like more expertise. Like I'd be calling up my dad and brother and be like, help me sell these cars. ASAP. Yeah. I just added this up. That's $171,000 in cars. Yeah. And if in worst case scenario, you're probably 15, $16,000 upside down. So,

I would be making, I would say, I'm getting rid of these in the next two weeks. I would be putting them everywhere, all over the internet, anywhere I could. I have some great cars and I'm selling them, get them out of my life. Because that frees up. I can't imagine the car payments you're paying every month on these cars.

I mean, like that's, yeah. I mean, I, that would be my number one. And so there is a lot of hope in that situation. 100%. Yeah. The majority of all of these, I mean, yeah, you could be. Have you tried to sell them and not had luck? Is that what's holding you back? Yeah. Um, there are also a few of them are like extremely tied to, to the point where they're kind of out for repossession. So it's like, I'm trying to get rid of them. So they're back payments. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um, okay.

Okay. Which would make me get that. And I would take less to get them out quicker so that it doesn't, they don't get repoed because then you have nothing to offset the debt. So even if you have to take less, I would, I mean, this is more of a desperate situation because of what you're in, you know, my, it's kind of like, you know, with, you know, with people that are behind on their mortgage and it's like, you'd rather sell it quickly than get foreclosed on. I mean, it's kind of the same equivalent. So the hard thing though, is you've got to be able to give them the title.

So how are you going to close the gap from the one? Do you know what I'm saying? If you take less, how are you going to close the gap so that you can actually sell it free and clear? Do you have any money anywhere saved?

I only have as of today, probably about a thousand dollars to my name. Okay. So what I would do then with that thousand dollars, because one breaking loose on one of these is going to help you avalanche through all of them. So the one that you was the least upside down was number two, the one that you owe 28,000 on that was worth 25. It,

If you can just really quickly get 3000 bucks saved and just focus on that one, you even clearing one of these immediately is going to rock your world. Yep. You know, absolutely. And so that's what I'd focus on. And then after that, they're going to go like dominoes because it's going to clear up that payment. You're not going to feel the stress of it. And so focus on one at a time. But there's a lot of hope here, like Rachel said. Yep, for sure. And what you can do to make money between now and when baby comes is going to be as helpful as possible. That's right. That's right. That's right.

Maya, if you stay on the line, Christian's going to pick up and we're going to get you with a financial coach to even walk with you through some of this because there's a lot here. And with a baby coming, I know it's just life. It's difficult. So hopefully that helps. Thanks for the call.

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I guess you could be in a podcast, on a podcast. There you go. All right. Next, we have Joseph in Lafayette. Hi, Joseph. Welcome to the show. Hello. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. How can we help? Okay. Well, my fiance and I, well, I should say my fiance wants to move. We currently live on her parents' property in a back house.

While we're paying off our debt. And when we get taxes in, she'd like to pay off one of the loans, but then move. And I like from all the numbers I've touched, it's like I'm trying to not break her heart, but tell her that we might need to stay longer until we pay off all of our debts before we add another bill expense. Yeah. Why does she want to move?

It's always, we're getting a bit older just to get away from, you know, parents. Nothing wrong with parents. It's just something we want to move to a bigger place for the kids. Okay. So it's more out of a desire, not a necessity. It's not like something is going awry relationally and it's like we got to get out of here for the health of our family. There's not an urgency to it necessarily. It's just a deep desire of like, I want to be on my own. Yes, ma'am. Okay, perfect.

um so how much um how much extra do you guys have a month if you were to try to say okay yeah what here's what we would probably rent for um have you guys put that into a budget just to see what that looks like paying i have paying off the loans still like if we were to move instead of paying off the loans i'd be like negative 350 every month how much are the loans

I've got three loans that all average about $2,500. $2,500. Okay. Okay. Yes. And what are you paying right now to live in this other property that your parents have? Electric. Are you there?

Yes. Okay. How much are you guys paying? Are you paying anything or are they letting you live there for free? Pretty much free. I just pay the electric bill. How much do you make a year, Joseph? You and your wife combined?

My wife's a stay-at-home mom, and this year I made $44,000. $44,000. Okay, because I was going to say, I mean, you have $8,000 of debt. Yeah. Well, were you paying off other debt before this, and this is just what's left? This is what's left. Oh, okay. That makes more sense. Sorry. Yeah, that's true. Okay. So when do you think, like, based off of the progress you've been making, how quickly can you have this $7,500 paid off?

I mean, I could pay off one loan and that loan, that's $400 a month that I can put towards other loans. It's like paying off one, but it's times the hard variable. So it's like I could pay off the biggest and then pay off the other ones. Well, you want to move smallest to largest. Like that's the way that we would teach you to do it. But even doing that, how quickly do you think you'd be through the whole $7,500? Yeah.

within the next six months. Six months. Okay. Yeah. So that gives you adequate time to start doing your research and seeing what it would look like to rent. Like Rachel said, you're throwing it in a budget. You're kind of running the numbers and getting used to what that idea would feel like. And by the time this debt is gone, it's going to be, you know, you packing up that. Yeah. I mean, how many, how many kids do you guys have? Three. How many? Three. Three. Okay. Because Joseph, I would say, what do you do for a career?

Warehouse management. Okay. Because 44 grand, you know, with a family of five... Before taxes. Before taxes, you know, I mean, yeah, you guys are running on a tight ship. And so to just... I mean, I'm going to say as the kids get older and as you guys start looking... Because eventually, yes, the goal is to own your own place one day. You know, it's either going to take...

oh it's going to take longer right with on a 44 000 salary yeah or if she decides to pick up some work and do something from home to bring in i mean even a thousand bucks a month or something to help kind of speed this up as well right i mean i think that's what's always um you know difficult in a situation is you know we are all for stay-at-home moms like that is not a slam against her i mean i think that that is

incredible, absolutely incredible. But when you make one choice there, then other choices, you know, so she has to understand too that there's a reality of what you guys make every year and what you bring in a month. And there's a reality of what you can afford. So either if, you know, and I don't want you working 80 hours a week to be able to

own a home right i mean like they're like there's a reality too to your time and enjoyment of life but um but that's a that's a reality she needs to realize so even though i know she doesn't like being there um there's a math issue here too how old are the kids uh six seven and two so is she doing the homeschool thing or are they are two of them already in kindergarten and

Yeah. Homeschool. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Which is great. So I think that, you know, and you guys do a budget together. I mean, I'm assuming she sees all these numbers. We just started. Like I just discovered the Ramsey solution two, three months ago. Oh, awesome. Well, you guys make great progress. Well done. That's awesome. So, and how old are you guys? You may have said this.

I am 24. She is 25. Okay, okay. Well, and the positive thing is too, Joseph, I mean, if this was the case and you guys were in your late 30s or something, I'd be like, okay, we got to keep moving. But you're young in a sense that you will only be moving up in income from every year you should progressively be making more. And that's the positive. So it may not happen as fast as she may want it, but also they're not

I would make it a goal though to at least get out. I understand what she's saying and become, you know,

your own crew somewhere and renting, but buying a home and all of that, it may just take a little bit longer. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah. I understand that. And like, I hope she does too. It's just, I don't want to break her heart because she was like, we need to move. We need to move. You're not breaking her heart. Math is breaking her heart because she's not living in reality. She can be sad about it. And that's, that's appropriate too. Right. Where it's like, Oh my gosh, I want to be gone out of here. Yeah.

And this sucks and I hate it. But you know what? Grownups, we all do things that we don't like. But I would say, again, hear me say, we are pro being on your own. Even if you were a single guy, Joseph, and you were 24, like, hey, Joseph, how can you get out of your parents' house, right? So for the time being, you guys are on a plan and have an end date as well. This would help her too when you actually look, because you said we can be done in six months.

And, you know, it's February. So what is that? August-ish or so. And make it a plan to say, okay, by September 30th, we are renting a new spot. October 1, we'll be paying rent for a new spot, right? And you guys together need to be at the timeline and have that end date because that's going to help her. If it's this just like forever, we're going to try. We'll see.

That ambiguity, I feel like, stresses people out. And I understand that in her case. So have a plan. And then you guys, yeah, rent. And then, again, I don't know. There's a reality, too, for her to realize. I mean, you guys are in a great spot, a situation to pay off this debt fast versus having to pay $800 in rent somewhere in Lafayette. So that's what I would do. What do you think, Jade? I think you're right. You know, I like...

I love when moms want to stay at home. I think it's a great idea. I love the idea of homeschooling, but there's two really, like you said, facing the reality of a financial situation. And like I've said many times on this show, a dream deferred is not a dream denied. Just because you say, hey, in this season, I'm not getting, you know, I'm not able to have my cake and eat it too. So in this season, I've got to work hard. And then once I get ourselves in a better situation, then I can do those things. I can stay at home. I can do the homeschooling. And so I'm

I think that there's a little bit of sacrificing to win that needs to take place here. - Yes, or you're sacrificing by choosing to be home and homeschooling, which again is great.

But then you're sacrificing homeownership down the road. That's also true. And that's the thing, right? You guys just have to look at the math and the values of your family, Joseph. And that's what you want to drive you. But math has to be a reality that we have to live in, that we can't just want something and it just happened. That's not being a grown-up either. So I hope that helps, Joseph. But you guys are killing it. I mean, you guys have made so much progress already. So keep up the great work.

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Every quarter, our research team sends out a survey to listeners of this show, but also just the general public, just to get a pulse on what's going on when it comes to personal finance in America. And our Q4 results are in, and they've taken everything, all the data people, they're so good at it. They are good at it. And they figure out all this stuff. But we have some highlights from the study, which we just think is great.

We think are interesting. It's very interesting. So the first one is that saving money was the top New Year's resolution for Americans. Saving money. Yeah, I get that piece. I can understand that. OK, 37 percent of Americans said their personal finances will get better during the second Trump presidency. Listen, I think that's we saw that at the polls, obviously. For sure. 37 percent.

One in four U.S. adults plan to use their tax refund to treat themselves, whether it's travel, clothes, eating out or something more. Which caveat, y'all, if you're in debt and you don't have savings, use your tax refund for that stuff.

When you get it and adjust it so you don't get a big refund. I know, right? That's so funny to me. That's that Disney money right there. Okay. I love this one. Grocery shopping was the number one category where Americans said they're likely to overspend, which we've been telling you guys that for years. That's us. Food is the budget buster, right? We did a Costco run two weeks ago. I don't even want to tell you. It was terrible. Absolutely terrible. I thought, oh my, if I spent this on clothes, I would have.

I already know what it is because it's the same at our house. So bad. It's so bad. Nearly 6 in 10 American adults said weekly meal planning is an essential task, but 44% wish they did it better. Well, 6 out of 10. 60%. That's pretty good because back to this grocery thing, eating out, food in general is always a budget buster. So grocery shopping for sure.

But if you don't plan for it, you end up going to a restaurant, getting to go. I mean, it just ends up being like the catch-all where you end up spending more doing that. Yeah. But it's like, I mean, when I look at that, it's like eating your vegetables. Like we all know like, yeah, I'm supposed to eat broccoli. Like I should probably eat Brussels sprouts. But-

We don't do it. You know what I mean? But meal planning, do you find, I, this is like, it's a love language to me. I love it. I feel in control. I'm like, I know exactly. Tonight we have spaghetti and meatballs. Yesterday we had chili. We plan out exactly what we're going to eat every night. And it feels good. I think, I'm like, I feel in control. I think if you have, Rachel, those go-to meals, the ones that are easy, the ones you know your family likes, it does make meal planning easier. I think it's the folks who are like,

I hate cooking. Yep. I'm bad at cooking. I don't know what to, like, those are the folks who really struggle. That's fair. That's fair. All right. So this one is a heavy hitter. It says American said the ideal interest rate for them to consider buying a home in the next 12 months is 4.5%.

Keep in mind that right now it's 6.13 or something like that. Yep, absolutely. Okay, 45% of Gen Z and millennials said that if the government increased the child tax credits, it would be a big or moderate impact on their decision to have a child or additional children. That's 45%. That's a lot. Are we going to have a kid or not? Depends on the tax credits. I mean,

I mean, don't get me wrong. Like Rachel, we're always talking about considering finances and family planning, but I feel like that's definitely next level. All right. About half of Americans have given money to a person in need or a charitable cause in the last three months. I think that's great. Prioritizing generosity. I think no matter where you are in the baby steps, if you do that, like there's nothing wrong with that. That's a wonderful thing. Gives us some humanity. That makes me feel good.

About people. All right. 30, the last one, 33% of Americans said that it's acceptable to borrow money from the person you're dating to pay a bill. Let me tell you something, Rachel. Let me just tell you something, Rachel. If I'm dating, listen, if I'm dating Leroy and he slides into my text, like, can you give me, I need extra 300 bucks to cover the car payment this month. Yeah.

Do you think it's different between guys and girls? If a girl comes to a guy- It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. But it feels different. It does. It does. It's way less attractive for a guy to come to a girl for some reason for money than a girl to a guy. I don't know why. Can you spot me a few singles for my utility bill? No, I can't. Sorry, Leroy. Leroy?

Leroy, budget. What are you doing? Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Oh, boy. Well, I'll go back to one, though, Jade, with buying a home. And they want to have the interest rate drop, which, again, makes sense. If it's around 6.1%.

percent right now and they want a 4.5 almost a two percent drop yeah it does it saves you a ton of money in the long run but let me tell you guys get in the game if you haven't already like if you have the ability to buy a house meaning you are out of debts you have an emergency fund you have at least five percent down and your you know your payments you know no more than 25 percent of your take-home pay on a 15-year fix like all the parameters are there don't sit and wait on an interest rate because you can always refinance later and

But you don't have control over that. But getting in the market as soon as possible, I really think is a good bet because, Jade, as we've seen it, that the housing market, it's not shooting up. Prices are not shooting up like they were three years ago. But they steadily are still increasing. Yeah.

That's right. A small percentage. So it's just going to get more and more expensive. So if you have the ability to get in, go ahead and get in. The earlier, the better. And again, I want you to be financially ready before you do so. But if you have any questions around housing, go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate. And we have so much information on there, you guys, because again, buying a house is a big part of your financial plan. And we want you to be set up well with the information and with the people around you to be able to make that as smooth as possible.

All right, up next, we have Lisa in Raleigh. Hi, Lisa. Welcome to the show.

Thank you, Rachel. Rachel, my husband and I are 64, we'll be turning 65 at the end of the year, so of course we're thinking about retirement and that kind of panics me a lot. I feel that we did not plan very well and it came very fast. We do not have a pension, I took my 401k to pay off some debt, but

But we do own a home with no mortgage of $700,000. And I do own a business that is grossing $1.3 million. A month? Or I'm sorry, a year? Yeah.

A year. A year. And what do you take home from that? If it's grossing, what's the profit of it? About $200. Good for you. Great job. I know that we just find it very hard to save money and money is always going back into business. And of course, we like to live a nice lifestyle too as well. But so my question is,

How do you have enough income for retirement if you don't have the pension or the 401k? Would it be wise to sell the house at some point and the business and then invest that and live off the income? Yeah. Do you guys, are you, are you married, Lisa?

Yeah, so married 40 years. Okay. Oh, congratulations. Do you guys have any retirement? Any Roth IRAs? Any 401ks? Any mutual funds? Anything? No, I took it. You'll love this. We paid off our kids' college with that. So, no. Okay. And does the business you guys run together, so your husband doesn't have a separate income? He takes Social Security. He doesn't take...

A salary from the business. So he takes $2,000 a month Social Security. And just to clarify for me, you said the net profit from the business was $200,000, but it sounded like that's not necessarily what you take home because you were investing a lot back into the business. Did I hear that right? Well, I would say $200,000. Is what you're taking home. Right, of course. And that's what you guys make a year total household because he's not working. So are you guys living off of $200,000?

Yes. Okay. What are you doing? Where's the $200,000 going? Exactly. Well, we do help as parents, and that's about $2,000 a month. They're 92 years old, and they have round-the-clock care. Okay. And so we do help with that. We do have two car loans. Oh, okay. How much are those? Those are two cars, $400 each. But what do you owe on them?

Okay, so you're paying $800 a month in leased cars, $2,000 to parents. So...

I think what you guys really need is to get on a budget and we'll give you an every dollar budget, but that's going to help you see where all the money is going. And when you see that, you're going to have this moment of, oh my goodness. And that's going to give you the opportunity to reshift your priorities. You and your husband and saying, we might not be able to afford some of the things that we're doing specifically the leased cars. And we're going to retire soon either. At least unless you have a plan to sell the business.

You guys could downsize and put some of that money in investments, but my fear is, Lisa, your habits haven't changed when you do that, and you guys will blow through that money. So I would sit down with an investment professional, a trusted pro, and really look at this retirement. If you hold on the line, Christian will pick up and we'll direct you where to go. Thanks so much for the call, Lisa.

Okay, picture this. You sit down to do your taxes, but instead of stressing out, you're actually ahead of the game and filing with an affordable software that makes your computer shoot confetti when you're done. Okay, not that last part, but Ramsey Smart Tax does make filing easy and doesn't make your bank account cry.

Ramsey SmartTax is a 100% accurate software that's honest about its pricing and is backed by a company who's been in the business for over 50 years. So go to ramseysolutions.com slash smarttax to take advantage of early bird pricing and stress-free filing. That's ramseysolutions.com slash smarttax.

If you're wondering if you are staying on track with the baby steps, make sure to check out our quick quiz, check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. So go down and click the link in the show notes. Are you on track with the baby steps and complete the quiz? And I'll just give you a quick snapshot of where you are financially. All right. Up next, we have Edward in New York City. Hi, Edward. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thank you so much for taking the call. Absolutely. How can we help?

Yeah, so I'm looking to... I have an opportunity to invest in a house in a small city in western Pennsylvania. It's a rental. And I've never bought...

Just to give you a little background, if you don't mind, about my finances. I'm 29. I'm single. My retirement has about $85,000 in it. I have about $85,000 in cash. Brokerage account in stocks and stuff like that is about $40,000. I pull in about $4,400 for my day job a month. And then I have a property, my own rental property.

um, that I own. Um, and I do have a mortgage on that. How much is that? The mortgage? Uh, it's about 83,000. Okay. Um, it's valued around like 175, 200. Okay. Um, and where, where are you living? I think you guys are with that. Where are you living right now? Uh, yeah. So I actually, um, I had another apartment and I was fixing it up and then I actually sold it. I was going to rent it out. Um, so I moved back home to my parents. Um, so what's that property? Yeah.

Oh, you sold it. You sold it. Yeah, I sold it. Okay. Where's the proceeds to that? Yeah, that's like, I'm just holding that in cash right now in my brokerage. Is that the 40,000? Yeah. Got it. Okay.

Interesting. Okay. And the question is another property. Yeah, I have a third opportunity that a friend gave me. Also, I think if you guys don't, I think you'll laugh at this. My rental property actually burned down. Oh, no. I wouldn't laugh at it. Yeah, no, rental properties are not passive income. I've learned that the hard way. Yeah. Got you. Amen, Edward. Say it louder for the people in the back, as they'd say. It's being rebuilt, but it's all good. So tell us... Yeah, it's being rebuilt. So it's fine.

Anyway, so I have an opportunity to buy a small house for $44,000 cash. It has a tenant in there. They pay about $675,000 a month. The taxes and the insurance, I was told, are about $150,000 a month. Okay. Here, can I pause for just a second? Let me get a little bit more. So the one that burnt down, what's the status on that?

It's being rebuilt. It's a townhouse. Okay. And I'm the president of the HOA board. So I'm closely aligned with, you know, the construction process and everything like that. So when it's built out, are you planning on keeping it as a rental or are you going to sell it?

I'm going to rent it. Yep. You're going to rent it and keep it. Okay. Um, I mean, I think my, my, my next goal for you, Edward is a, is a home for yourself is a primary residence. Yeah. I'm going to, I'll be moving in with my girlfriend this summer. Uh, and we're probably going to rent. Um, okay. So,

Well, again, I mean, I would be putting my next financial goal, because you don't have any debt, correct? Other than the mortgage. Yeah, no consumer debt. You have an emergency fund in place. You have this rental. I mean, again, from a...

from a goal of getting yourself, not trying to play some game with the real estate market, but just truly trying to get you in the best position at word financially is going to be owning a primary residence and paying it off as quickly as possible. And then beyond that is kind of when we factor in looking into real estate as an investment, because it is a great investment, but also doing it in the right order, I think is key. It brings, I think, more stability and peace to

to you so um can i clarify can i clarify the first rental that you were talking about that you have somebody in there did you say that you owe 83 000 on it and it's worth 175 yeah that's the one that burned down yeah okay um but if you and it's where you live like it's in your area

Yeah. So my question is, you told me you said you have eighty five in cash. Then you've got forty thousand in a brokerage. Why wouldn't you now? Don't get me wrong. I don't think you should do the deal in Pennsylvania. You're nowhere near there. But why wouldn't you pay off the the one that you plan to keep daily? Yeah. And live in a townhouse, be completely debt free. Then. Yeah. Then you can look and say, OK, is there another rental I want to do? I would not do for you know, how far is how how far is this from Pennsylvania? Yeah.

Oh, it's far. It's on the western border. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't, Edward. I mean, I think that's going to be exhausting, and it's not going to be... I mean, it's not a ton. So I think you could save that money. Yeah, it would only make...

I would only make maybe $450, $500 a month. Yeah, it's not worth it. Yeah, so we crossed that one off the list. You pay off the one that you have for $85,000. Now you've got a paid for rental and then you've got another $40,000 to start putting towards a down payment on your house. Would you live in that townhome?

My girlfriend won't. Why? She doesn't like it. But I mean, with some convincing and showing her their financials, I might be able to convince her. Yeah, because I mean, I'm going to be honest, Edward. I mean, you're putting to a degree your financial, not your financial future. It sounds so dramatic. But your decisions about your finances in the hands of a girlfriend, right?

not your wife, not someone that, you know what I mean? So, so there is just, just remember that. I mean, cause honestly, Edward, if you thought about it, just play out a scenario. What Jade said was brilliant. That paid off. What if you lived in there? You had no rent, right? Like, like nothing. And you're making, how much are you making a month?

Just a $4,400. Yeah. So you're making that. You live off that and put some in investments, put some away, have a goal for a property, like run some numbers out of what life could look like. Because when you don't have a mortgage, Edward, that is the largest expense in somebody's line item of a budget. I mean, it is. Your living expenses is always your home, whether rent or a mortgage is always the highest. And if you can eliminate that and you have absolutely no debt, no debt at all,

Then you can say, yeah, maybe I'm going to sell this townhome in two years because it's going to be worth $250. 100%. And then I'm going to go get some... You know what I mean? And I can step up in-house. The way people step up in a car, you have the ability to do this kind of from a home perspective. And just because the girlfriend doesn't like it, I mean, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in that, honestly. And I don't know. And, you know, just...

Just to end off, I totally agree, honestly. That's the wise decision. But, you know, if I was like a seasoned investor, let's say I was like 20 years older and I had a large portfolio, even then, would you think that investing in out-of-state properties is a bad move? Yeah, we always say no to that because of the headache, the hassle. You don't have eyes on it. You end up honestly paying a property manager most of the time. Yeah, that's what I was going to do. To do it. And then it just eats into the profit and...

And for the most part, you're not getting a lot out. And as you'll see with real estate, for most people, you're either making money on a flip, buying it low, selling it high, making the spread. And you have to know what you're doing if you're doing that. And or you're buying property and you make your money at the table, right? When you're buying the property, that's usually where you're going to make the money. And then you don't make a ton of money off the rents. Like that's not what's going to make you rich. It's the value of the property increasing and selling it eventually, right?

and taking the equity, right? That's where you're really gonna win. So having a rent is not, that's not the mindset I go into. It's either I have this and I'm holding it and I'm gonna make the money off the equity, off of the value of the property long-term

or I buy a crappy, you know, $44,000 property that you can see. And if you're into it, Edward, and you're like, yeah, I mean, I could get some subs in there. We could fix it up and I could sell it for 125. You make some cash that way. Right. But that's, that's a, that's a whole other do it. Yeah. He said that's not happening. Yeah. Yeah. So those are the two ways I see. Okay. Yeah. That's the way I see the, the investment on real estate. It's either doing it with cash or,

And you get some short-term gain from a flip, which again, know what you're doing if you're doing that, what you're getting yourself into. Or when you're doing it, it's more for the long game of the equity. Yeah. You know, I was going to put a loan mortgage in, I'm sorry, an application in to buy a house near me. It was severely damaged. And...

Everyone is, I got outbid by a bunch of cash offers and went over asking. Like I can't even compete in this market. Yeah. And let me encourage you to, you know, like in 10 years, maybe this is a game you end up playing, but maybe you just invest for now, you know, build up some money that way. And then taking that and doing some real estate later down the road. It doesn't have to be today, but, but you're doing great, Edward. I mean, you're, you're in a great spot.

Jay, thanks for a great hour. Thanks to all the guys in the booth and thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show.