Quit Trying to Outearn Your Stupidity!
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Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr. John Deloney are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait. Get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com slash tour. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work,

that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author many times over, host of The Rachel Cruz Show and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Networks, and my daughter. She's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5255.

225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Tim is with us. Tim is in Minneapolis. Hi, Tim. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, how's it going, Dave? Thanks for having me, guys. Sure. What's up?

Yeah, so, you know, long-time listener, I hear you guys talk a lot about how housing prices aren't coming down, you know, due to supply and demand. But with boomers owning, you know, almost 40% of houses in America, is that something we should expect, you know, in the next 10 to 15 years just based on life expectancy? Well, I'm a boomer. I'm 64. My life expectancy having made it to 64 is 90.

statistically really yeah statistically you'll be around for a while yeah the average i mean if you make it to 60 you know so the average male death in america right now is 76 average female death is 78 but that includes infant mortality teenage death and so on so when you have a healthy boomer make it in so the gradient is not 10 to 15 years the gradient is 20 to 30 years

Got it. To which point the answer is the absorption rate will not even notice it. You won't even know it happened because the inventory shortage is far superior to that gradient. Okay. That make sense? Yeah. No. That makes a lot of sense. Literally, I'm 64, and so over the next 30 years, the boomers will die off, roughly. Yeah. Not over the next 10 years. If they were all to die in the next five years...

then your question would say, okay, there's going to be a rush of supply into the market, and he could cause prices to adjust. Right, right. That's what his question really had under it. Right. And if there was an effect or something happened and they all went within 12 months, you know what I mean? Like it's enough of a spread that it's going to be so gradual. If we get the boomer virus. I don't know. That's what I'm like. I don't know. It could happen. It could happen. It could happen.

Something that takes out all the old people. So, yeah, I mean. We would miss y'all. Yeah, it's kind of like you're thinking we will miss you all. We would miss you. That sounded not sincere. I don't know. It is. Oh, I love it. Michelle's in Dallas. Hey, Michelle, what's up?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure, how can we help? Yes, so I have an employer that offers student loan forgiveness and I am debating whether or not when I go back to nursing school to pay it cash to not add on to the debt that I already have or should I go ahead and take out the loans, be better financially stable during nursing school and then apply for the loan forgiveness after.

I graduate. Never take out debt. Okay. Period. Because you're assuming one possible track in this scenario, that everything works exactly like your little plan you just laid out. And 100% of the time, things don't work like you planned. Something different will happen. And here's the other thing. If they will give you student loan forgiveness and they won't give you education funding equivalent to that,

I'm going to find a hospital that will because there's a shortage of nurses and someone will write you that check. If that group won't, somebody else will. Like tuition reimbursement. Yeah, exactly. Got you, got you. Because they're already coming out of pocket for student debt. What's the difference in that and tuition reimbursement?

None. Gotcha. That makes sense. And if they won't do that, talk to somebody across the street that's a different hospital or a different medical group, and they will. Because I've got to tell you, I'm thrilled for you. You are picking out probably, assuming you love it and you're engaged, which I guess you are, what I think is one of the best careers in America is nursing. Thank you. Because I've been doing this 35 years, and the entire 35 years I've sat in this chair, there's been a nursing shortage.

So you can always pick and choose, get whatever you want. You could work as many hours as you want. You could work 72 straight. You could do travel nursing. You can pick up ER on the weekends at triple time. I mean, you can make bank and control your life how much you work in this field like no other I know of. It's almost the equivalent of being self-employed, except self-employed is harder.

You know, I just I'm thrilled for you. If you love nursing, you're in the right place. And don't don't shortchange yourself as to what somebody will pay to get you out there. You are a commodity, baby. You can you can demand a price. Got you. OK, that's that's cool. Very fun stuff. I love that.

I mean, some of the best stories we've had, you know, back during COVID, the travel nursing stuff, the people that were still working and they were paying people like, we had one lady, I think she got half a million dollars in a year. It's crazy. And she paid off like $300,000 in student loan, I remember. Yeah. And in that same vein, you know, that there's a lot of different tracks and a lot of different career paths, companies, associations, all different things that are going, that take this route of, you

We will pay your student loans if you come work for us, or we'll pay your tuition if you come work for us. Right. And so that guaranteed time though, still a good idea to have someone else pay your tuition. Even if you are stuck in a sector or stuck in a, in a specific company, how long you're stuck in it, what would be your, your, how long you're stuck in it and what's the price that you're stuck in it at? I mean, yeah. So if, if you're being underpaid versus the market substantially, uh,

You would have been better off to pay your own tuition and not be stuck there. Right. More than a year or so. Yeah. You know, or if there's no advancement because of the thing, because you're stuck, you know, in that sense, you're getting a you're getting a good rate today. But it's not it's not going to be a good rate three years from now because, you know, entry level on that's got a curve to it. Right. Right. And you're going to be stuck then.

So, but, or it's a five-year deal. But if it's a two-year deal and your competitive salary position or competitive income position, then you ought to do it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because there's some great tracks out there. And then we've also heard on the flip side. Be careful. Be careful. There's a hook in there. I don't know. Yeah. There's a hook in there. Just to make sure that it is, it's a, it's a,

obvious way and that it's for a shorter amount of time, not a longer. You know, it's gotten a little bit quieter and we need to probably ask Ken Coleman about this because I've not checked the research and he probably has. But if you remember during the great resignation, a whole bunch of people quit their jobs like 24 months after COVID because they

realize someday they're going to die and they want to live life, right? And so this existential crisis hits America. And we have the largest resignation in a 24-month period of time nationwide that we've ever seen, people voluntarily quitting. And during that time, to attract people, people like Target, right?

At $20 an hour, we're paying tuition. And I wonder if that's still going on. I haven't kept up with that. We need to ask Coleman about that and get that back on the air because, I mean, 50%.

FedEx and Target and Walmart. UPS. At $20 an hour to go in there and stock shelves and they pay your tuition. That's crazy. That was a great deal then. If it's still there, it's still a great deal. And that falls in that same bucket of discussion. Because we're seeing a lot of that, that kind of creativity from employers to attract people. Good stuff. This is The Ramsey Show. ♪

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah. I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit.

the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner

changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Yes. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. You know, that's why we're partnering with them.

because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service, and the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up, and we got an account. And I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes,

It was so user-friendly. The step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds,

Again, they make it so easy. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.

Nancy's in Las Vegas. Hi, Nancy. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave, and thank you for taking my call, and it's such a pleasure to speak with you. Well, you too. How can we help? Well, I recently won $200,000, a little over, on a game show. Wow. And I'm 70 years old. That's more money than you'll ever have ever had. Can you tell us which game show? Are you allowed to? No.

The game show was called Snake Oil with David Spade. It was just on for one season. Oh, my gosh. Very fun. So have you gotten hit with the game show tax yet? Yes, I have. And that was approximately $55,000. It was California taxes, and it's pretty expensive. Okay, so your $200,000 is left over after that, or you have one...

45 left. I have one 45 left of that. Okay, all right. Way to go, Nancy! I know! That's awesome!

So what are you going to do with your $150,000? So, Dave, that's what I want to know. I'm not sure what to do. I'm 70 years old and basically retired. We're retired, my husband and I, and I work very part-time instead of my husband because we're still able to and we feel up to it. And right now I have the money.

I have actually a little over 200,000 in a money market, which is about a pretty good interest rate, 5.5. So, yeah.

And then we recently downsized, and I owe about $85,000 still on our house. And I'm not sure if we should pay the house up. Is $200,000 your entire NISTIG? Yes, besides the equity in our house. Right, but you don't have any other 401k retirement? No, no. Do you have pensions coming in?

We just have Social Security and between two of us that's about $4,500. What's it take you to live a month?

Oh, gosh. I don't actually know. That's terrible. I don't know exactly. Are you living on Social Security or Social Security plus your income? Yes. Well, we both work part time, too. I make very little money working a part time job. If I'm lucky, I make six hundred a month. It's just kind of a fun thing I do. And then my husband makes a couple thousand extra working part time B.C.,

besides our social security. And, of course, we're not going to be able to do that forever. It seems as though we're in our 70s. How much is your mortgage a month, Nancy? It's about $756 a month. Okay. It is $756 a month. Yep, yep. So the answer to your question is I'm not sure what you should do, but we can talk it through together.

Okay. If you had $600,000, I would tell you instantaneously write a check and pay off your house today. Right. If you had $100,000, I would tell you not to pay off your house because you would be starved. Right. And you're kind of in the middle. I know. It scares me that we're getting ready to use half of your money to pay off your house, but it also scares me that you go into your 80s with a mortgage. Right.

That's right. So those two things are competing here because we've only got $200,000 to work with. So I guess I would say if you do some other things...

And I'll give you those things. I would pay off the house. The other things are I would set up an automatic draft into a mutual fund, possibly a Roth retirement account with a SmartVestor Pro to the tune. If you pay off the house, you don't have a 756 payment anymore. So I'm going to make it at least $1,000, maybe $1,500 every month going into retirement.

Okay. Okay. And we can rebuild the $85,000 in just a couple of years doing that. Okay. Because that's $1,500 is $18,000 a year plus growth. So two years would be $36,000, four years would be $72,000. So it's going to take you about three years to get your $85,000 back if you do $1,500 a month.

So if you all are willing to get on a detailed budget and sit down with a smart investor pro and open a good mutual fund and move some of that other hundred and something that's left into that mutual fund too, so that it's growing, I want it growing more than 5%. Now I do want you to keep about 30,000 as your emergency fund in a, in the high yield savings or the money market, but the other 70 or so,

after you pay off the house, 80 or so, you should move that as well into a mutual fund. Now, let's talk that through for a second, and I'll show you why I'm doing that, okay? Okay, okay. If the mutual, the stock market since it began has averaged, meaning some years not, some years more, has averaged 11.8. If it didn't do that well and it only made 10, right?

the money that lump sum that you've got that you're going to put in there will double every seven years. And so let's not counting what we're adding to it monthly, but just taking that 75,000 or so. I'm going to call it 75 for math. At 77, it'll be 150, not counting what you add to it. At 84, it'll be 300, not counting what you add to it.

Okay. And that's if you continue to have your lifestyle be at Social Security plus part-time jobs or less, or you're not tapping into this money. Okay. Okay. So you'd have $300,000 in a paid-for house plus what you're adding to it, probably close to a half million dollars when you're in your mid-80s.

Wow. Well, that sounds pretty good. In a paid-for house. That all sounds good, but you've got to follow through on... But you're in your mid-80s, too. I mean, that's... I mean, mid-80s. I know. I know. I mean, I'm a really young 70, but mid-80s, that's a ways away. Well, I can tell. You just won a game show with David Spade. That's not an old 70, okay? That's not an old 70 right there. So, you're awesome. I love you. So, yeah, I...

I would pay it off, but only if you guys agree to, number one, get on a tight budget and detail out where every dollar's going so that, number two, I can put $1,500 a month away. Okay. Okay. And sit down with a smart investor pro, go to ramseysolutions.com. And if that's too much, $1,500, if they can't swing it. I still would. They can swing it. Yeah. She's got $6,000, $7,000 a month coming in, and she doesn't know where it's all going. Mm-hmm.

um other than it's getting spent and so i mean he's making a little money she's making a little money and they got 4500 social security yeah so they can swing that i don't know how long they can swing it but they could do it for three years they get the money back for the 85 yep yep that's that gives me comfort that gives me comfort because those three years yeah otherwise we leave them sitting there with almost no money or too too small a nest egg

And a paid-for house. Because what we have run into over the years, folks, is somebody gets to retirement and they have a paid-for house and no money. They end up digging up the bushes and trying to eat them because there's no money to eat with, right? I mean, you've got some problem here. So you've got to have some cash in addition to the paid-for house. We want you debt-free, but you've got to have some cash. Not sacrifice and not eat. Some investments. Not just cash, but some investments that are outside of your home. But having a paid-for home going into retirement is...

It creates a sustainability way beyond somebody has debt going into retirement. Yes. Well, and considering the mortgage is usually the highest line item for people of what they're paying every single month, and that's money. I mean, $800 is pretty good. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's a lot of mortgages.

A lot more than that. Oh, definitely, definitely. Being able to pocket that every single month and being able to use that to live off of versus having to pay the mortgage. I mean, that's where the math, that's where it gets crazy. Yeah, and you know what? The other thing gave me comfort, and I didn't realize it until you were saying that. They've already downsized.

She downsides to get to that. That's right. That's right. Yes. And so these people are already noticing where they are. Yeah. They're not struggling with reality. Yes. And so that gives me comfort, too, because they're reality-based people. And their decision-making is wise. It's clear. Yeah. It's real clear. And long before they got to this phone call. So that helps. Snake oil with David Spade. Snake oil. 200 grand. Man, I thought she was going to say prices right or something. I got 200 grand from snake oil.

I didn't. She did. This is The Ramsey Show. If you need health insurance for yourself or your family, you might be lost in a maze of confusing terms, overwhelming options, and questions about networks. Not to mention high costs and bad service from insurance companies that don't care about what you want.

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Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author. My daughter is my co-host on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Steve and Nina are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Great. How about you? Better than I deserve. Where do you guys live? Danbury, Connecticut. Danbury, Connecticut. Bit of a haul to Tennessee. Worth the trip. And a minor culture shock, too. We like it.

Very cool. Very cool. Welcome. We're glad to have you. So how much debt did you pay off? $141,908. Oh my gosh. Wow. How long did this take? 37 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $115,000 to approximately $180,000.

Whoa. It's a jump. And what kind of debt was the 142? Our house. Our house. Oh! Congratulations. You leaned in on this house. These numbers, you've been on rice and beans doing the house. Yes. Baby step two in it. Just all right. You didn't let off the gas. You just went on through. Yes. The only thing is our daughter loves beans too much now, so we can't. Good

Good nutrients, you know, for the little ones. Oh, my gosh. We'll eat tacos and tuna fish the rest of our life, yeah. Were y'all both on agreement for being in tents? Because we usually are like, y'all both are. You're both like, we're going to just... Who wanted it the most, though? Like, who's the one that...

I think. Okay. I like it. Good to know. But towards the end, we slowed down a little bit, enjoyed life a little bit more. But hey, I mean, golly. Not with this math you didn't. No, I mean, this is pretty serious. I mean, you're making, okay, so, you know, $40,000 a year that you're paying off out of a 180 or 115. That's,

leaning in. I mean, you're serious. In addition to normal living, in addition to regular payments. Yep. Yeah. Well done, you guys. How old are you two? 30. Wow. Oh, my gosh. So what is a house like this in Danbury, Connecticut, sell for? About $450. Woo!

and you're 30 years old pretty i love it and how much in your how much in your retirement nest egg already around 220 000 in a 401k and then you know around maybe 35 000 in cars and you know a few 10 you know 10 000 in various other assets yeah you're measuring towards the net worth he's reaching for it he's reaching for you're gonna be there easy by the

slam dunk by 35 though you'll be millionaires looking forward to it wow I'm so proud of y'all thank you well done so what in the world you weirdos what made you do this

Well, it basically all started, I was always into reselling on eBay and various things. And my friend gave me a giant box of books and I was looking through them and the Total Money Makeover happened to be in there, your book, and it looked interesting. So I decided to give it a read and the rest was history. We had a little bit of debt at the time. We were a new couple, just trying to start life. And it was just a great, just...

way to just, you know, be free and, you know, have financial peace through all of life's challenges. Yeah. So, so basically we started out Ramsey-ish about five years ago.

We started paying off our consumer debt, but then we kept a credit card and we still, we weren't budgeting at the time. But that all changed about three years ago when I quit my job. So I was in a really toxic work environment. I had a really rough boss and it was really impacting my health.

So I was trying to look for other jobs, but it just wasn't happening quick enough. And I had a panic attack. And I said, you know what? We have an emergency fund. That's it. I'm going to create an emergency. Exactly. But a few weeks later, I got another job.

And it was about a $30,000 pay cut. So at that point we knew we needed to get dialed in. We needed to start budgeting. I cut up the credit card and we were just intentional throughout that time. And then we got pregnant with our Cecilia, which we'll meet shortly.

And she was in the NICU for a few weeks. I came early. Yeah, she was five weeks early. But thanks to God and our family and friends and the fact that we had financial stability, we were able to get through it. And yeah. And then ever since then, on our parental leaves, we actually both got better jobs and better paying jobs. And that's why you see that big jump. And I actually ended up going back to the company that I originally left because that manager was gone. So...

It's great. What a full circle moment, right? Absolutely. Of the kind of person you were when you left. Absolutely. From health, financial, all of it. Yes. And then when you walk back in, you're like, I am just a different person. That's amazing. Yes. So great. Well, thanks to you guys. This has been incredible. Really. Well, you guys did it. I mean, absolutely amazing. Okay, so what was the hardest part? Because I always find it fascinating when families, they have babies in the middle of doing the baby steps, right? Because it's a lot. It's a lot of life that you live. Yeah.

But what was the hardest? Would you say, I think, patience? Yeah, being patient and finding community and like-minded people. It was hard to come by where we were from. Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. So you got called crazy a lot. Yeah, a lot. Definitely. A lot. But we embraced it. Yeah. Yeah. If your broke friends are making fun of your financial plan, you're right on track. Yes. Yes. And that's always hard, too, because you're like, this is amazing. You want everyone to do it. But-

You know, they have to figure it out themselves. So hopefully this will help. They need to get a free book that was given to them and a box of books that you're getting ready to resell. Golly. You got a bargain. I think the ROI on that's infinite. That's pretty incredible. Wow, dude. This is so awesome. I'm so proud of y'all. You're going to be so freaking wealthy.

And that's good because Steve's kind of money motivated. Yeah. He's kind of had his eye on that. He's got the nerd money maker thing going. Yeah. The rain maker thing. Yeah. Very good, you guys. Very cool. Man, y'all are something. So now that you don't have single debt in the world. That's crazy.

And you're making almost $200,000 a year and you're 30 years old. What are you going to do? How are you going to celebrate? We need a new roof. We need a new roof. I said, how are you going to celebrate? We need a new roof. Okay, so that's how we're going to get up on the roof. Yeah, all right. Party on the roof, baby.

And you need a new car. Yes. What are you driving? Well, right now, Nina has a small Subaru Impreza, so we're hoping to get a bigger family car. He has a 2016 Silverado. Okay, so you're driving 10-year-old cars. Mm-hmm.

And so it's time to upgrade mom with a little better car with the baby. And you can do that in like two months. I mean, it's not a big deal, right? You got no freaking payments. When you start to feel the muscle that you now have that you've never had before in your life, it's going to blow your mind how quick you can do stuff. It's crazy. So way to go, y'all. Way to go. How's it feel?

Feels good. Feels really good. Weightless. Yeah. I mean, it's nice to have options and just, you know, be able to take control of your life, right? And do what you need to do, what you want to do. So,

So, yeah. And, I mean, we have only had a couple months and we had a big tax bill due. Yeah. Taxes and taxes. Yeah, we're like, all right. So, we haven't felt it 100% yet, but it's coming. It's coming. Oh, for sure. For sure. Wow. Good for you guys. What do you tell people the secret is to getting out of debt? Definitely budgeting. Yeah, being consistent. Yeah, being consistent. And every dollar every day, having budgeting meetings. And just don't make excuses, you know. Yeah.

You can definitely do it. And you just got to, you know, plan and talk to your spouse and communicate. And that's kind of the key. And that's really impacted our marriage too, for sure. No more money fights. We're both on the same page. And also, I think just because it's a no right now doesn't mean it's a never. I think that's been really... And even with job stuff, with life, I think that really carries through. Yeah. Yes. Which is a long-term mindset, which is so hard for people because they don't want the...

present pain right yeah exactly looking forward okay so how old's cecilia now she's almost two is she okay oh did you bring her with you yeah okay is she gonna help you do the scream yeah she's been well bring her up here let's introduce her i want to see this beautiful child wow that's wonderful very cool you guys

This child has no idea how big a hero her mom and dad are. They've completely changed their family tree. Everybody look in the camera. If you've got YouTube going, you can see what heroes look like. This is pretty stinking cool. I'm so proud of you guys. Well done. Well done. Steve and Nina and little Cecile. You're Danbury, Connecticut. Wow. 142 paid off in 37 months, making 115 to 180. House and everything.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! I love it. So good. That is awesome. Sweet girl. Oh my gosh, so good.

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Thank you for the trust, and I promise you it's good. I promise you it's worth reading, and it's definitely worth a lot more than $29.99. Information there should make you millions of dollars. So pre-order today at RamseySolutions.com slash store, or click the link in the description, and you're on your way. Jackie's with us. Jackie's in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Jackie. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? So my question is, I am going blind and I wanted to get some advice on what my husband and I can do financially to set us up for success for the day which I'm unable to work. I'm so sorry, Jackie. When did you get this diagnosis? Thank you.

So I got the diagnosis in 2023, but I have a progressive retina disease. So I'm just my retina cells are dying over time. And from the outside in, my vision is decreasing. So it's been going on for a long time. But I finally, you know, went to the eye doctor, got the diagnosis in 2023. Wow. How long are they saying until you're legally blind?

Did they give you a time frame? Yeah, so it's 10 to 15 years at this point. It could be more, it could be less. It just depends. Okay. Are you working today? Yes, I am. Okay. What do you earn today? So between myself and my husband, we bring in 130 pre-tax. Okay. And how much debt do you have, not counting your home?

We have $19,000 on a car and $650 on a pesky little medical debt that can go into times. Okay. So $20,000 makes you debt-free and you make $130,000. Do you guys have any money saved? Yep.

Currently about $6,000. We actually just moved into a super cheap rental. This is like a godsend for us. So we're actually able to save more now than we ever have been. So that's actually why I'm calling because it's the perfect time for us to figure this out. Okay. The emotion and the, I guess, fear is the word that I would feel if I were in your shoes today.

would maybe make me reach and try to change some kind of thing and try to accelerate it and try to get into high gear or something, so to speak, which is kind of why you're calling, I think. So I completely identify with that if it was me. I've never been in that situation, but I can only guess how I would react. It would put me into high gear. We've got to get something. We've got to get moving here. Mm-hmm.

And so here's some interesting numbers for you. Okay. That run through my head. We did about four years ago, Ramsey Research did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America. Okay. When they, the people reached millionaire status, the vast majority of them, 89% of them became millionaires, not using inherited money.

They did it themselves. Nine out of 10 millionaires in America are self-made millionaires. Okay. Um, the, the, uh, that's good information. The second piece of information is it took on average 17 years. Lots of them did it in 12. Interesting number for you. Okay. Um, and what they did was they poured money, uh, and cleared their debts. And, uh, then they started putting money aside into retirement, uh,

And then they paid off their home. And so when they got to the millionaire status, they're sitting with a $600,000 or an $800,000, $900,000 paid for home, and they're looking at $600,000 or $800,000 in their 401K. And they did that in 10 to 17 years, you know, is the range, right? So like I was saying, a lot of them did it in 12. Some of them were longer than 17. But one-third of them had an income under $100,000.

So you're ahead on that and your timeframe does that. And so if I step aside from the emotion, which is my reason for bringing it up, and I said, I'm going to work the baby steps millionaires system, that's your best, your family's best shot at being prepared for this.

And starting kind of from scratch from the home side, they're renting still. So that's going to be the next big amount of time. Well, now I'm going to get rid of this car payment. Yeah, well, getting rid of the consumer debt. We're getting rid of this consumer debt in 20 seconds, and then we're going to build an emergency fund. Then we're going to save a down payment for a modest home, and we're going to put it on a 15-year fixed rate. And then we're going to start putting 15% of our income into retirement, and we're going to throw everything else at the house and get it paid off. You're going to see raises and increases during that decade that that all occurs, and

And, um, and then when the house is paid off, you load up all your retirement and other miscellaneous investments. Um, you may want to have some outside of retirement, some mutual funds outside of retirement, because you may need access to that money. Um, if you know your site were to leave before 59 and a half. And so, but honestly working this standard system we have is the fastest way I know how to get you guys ready.

And I gave you all the background as to why just now, okay? Yeah. Jackie, do you all have kids? We do not. Okay, okay. How old are you? 31. Okay. And so 15 years puts you at 45, 46, yeah.

All right. Right. So, yeah, you, okay, there's a term, you can remember this too, it's a nuanced issue, but you'll discover it later when you meet with a SmartVestor Pro. I'm going to give you three or four things to do to go do what I just told you how to do, okay? Now, and I'm going to load you up with gifts in just a minute, all right? So, it's called, the term is bridge investing. To have some money in a good mutual fund, a pile of money, and

to fund your family's wants or needs between 45 and 59 because you can't access your Roth IRAs and 401ks until 59, okay? So you have some non-retirement investing in your mix, and that might be something that is a little different for you all than I would normally do.

because I'm giving you 15 years out there of site, 12 to 15 years, and then things are going to get rowdy, and I need a half million dollars laying over there of my million and a half laying over there that I can get to, not because you're going to use it all at once, but because you might need the income off of it, and you can't even access that if it's in a Roth until 59, okay? Okay.

Right. Bridge investing. All right. So here's the things we're going to send you the full enchilada. All right. We're going to give you a financial peace university. We're going to give you every dollar premium, which is the budgeting app. You and your husband go through all of those lessons immediately. And then, uh,

tear into this budget, tear into this debt, work these baby steps, get the debt paid off, get the emergency fund saved, get the down payment saved for the house, work baby steps 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, exactly like we teach with great intensity, and you have every reason to do that. And then I'm going to send you the book Total Money Makeover that is the baby steps on steroids. It shows you exactly how to do all this also. And I'm going to send you the book

with a study of millionaires in it, in the back of it, the white papers in the back of it. It's called Baby Steps Millionaires.

So I'm going to give you every bit of that. And then the second piece is I want you to go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro and find one in your area that has the heart of a teacher. Meet with them and tell them your story so they can help you begin to plan the investing when you get to that stage. Hang on. We'll get you set up with every bit of that. And we'll walk with you, kiddo. You're not by yourself.

We're scared with you, and we're also excited about how wonderful your future is going to be. This is The Ramsey Show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies, and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.

I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect yourself.

Thank you.

so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them, and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch. Give them a call at 800-356-4282.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that you love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author many times over.

And of course, my daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Josh is in Phoenix. Hey, Josh, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Josh. Thank you for having me on. Absolutely. What's up, man? Hey, not much. I have a quick question for you guys. I'm trying to be brief. Me and my wife, we just moved out to Phoenix, Arizona about a year and a half ago for my job.

As we moved, she was job hunting and, you know, she sees she follows a lot of social media, some influencers, and she's like, man, I can do this. So she was kind of doing that on the side, kind of fun, creative thing for her to do while she was job hunting. And a year and a half later, she's kind of blown up all over social media. I mean, we're about she's about to hit a million subscribers a little over on some TikToks and Instagrams.

And we're starting to get some pretty big brand sponsorships and ad revenue, you know, just stuff like that that's reaching out to us. People asking about doing a podcast with her. We haven't said yes to any of this. We don't know how it's really going to affect our family's life. I know you guys kind of handle this. We don't know if it's like, oh, is this something that's going to work out well for us? Do we pursue this? And it's a lot of money that some of these companies,

brands are thrown at us or people that want to sponsor. What's a lot of money?

People asking podcasts. No, I'm talking about how much money. Give me a dollar figure. We haven't cashed in anything yet. We're just kind of on standby because we don't know how it's going to affect our family. If we want our family lives on social media, we're starting to have kids. But we've had podcast people reach out and say, hey, let's do an episode, 75,000. We've had ad revenues say, hey, make a video with our cross-border

product in it will give you 10 grand or 15 grand and that's for a 30 second video on tiktok um and that number is real the other one's bullcrap okay nobody's paying you 75 000 an episode for a podcast that hadn't launched that's what we don't know yeah well she don't know people who have a podcast want her to come on and they're going to pay her 75 000 for being a guest

That's what people are throwing at us. Like the actual podcaster or some goober agent.

Like some goober agent. Yeah. We don't know what's real. I'm calling BS. Okay. Maybe on that. But on social, it is very common for that size of an audience. To get paid. The ad revenue is very real. Yeah. That's why I said the first number is very real. Yes. Okay. And even more. That could be even a conservative number. The podcast number is not. I've done five or six podcasts this week and I haven't been paid for one. Right. So we don't know. And my footprint's a little larger than you're talking about.

I agree. That's why we're reaching out. I'm just saying it's just not real. I know. But there is a whole world out there, and it is wild what people will pay. So all that to say, you guys could make, I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year by her just doing this. So you're asking. I hear two questions. One is how do we control it impacting our family, and what do we do with the money? Is that the two questions?

Yes, sir. Like how lucrative is this? Is it worth doing it? And you guys, I know you guys are all over social media. And so how has it affected your family with people knowing about your lives and trying to, you know, I don't, we just don't know. Is this something we want to dive into and explore or is this going to ruin our lives type of thing?

I think it's all on how you guys approach it, how you position it, and the role that it plays in your life. So I do think that they're very healthy to create boundaries where you guys want, and I would be stricter on the boundaries early on.

And as you get used to something, maybe you're a little bit more flexible and you're like, yeah, that can kind of move. We feel good with that. I don't do it for a living. And I do think there's a world out there. Yeah, where this is their world and their life and their family is their content completely.

And so with those people that I've talked to in that space, a lot of them do have very strict guidelines of times that they shoot, times they don't. Because I do think this mingling of the phone and social and videoing everything for content, which is the job, essentially, is

it i think it does affect the family in a very negative way over time and so for you guys just to say yeah we can enter into the space but you know from 5 p.m to 8 p.m we're not we're not filming this stuff like you know we may do some content here or there throughout the day i don't know do you know me i feel like you have to be very very yeah very intentional and seeing it as a job versus it being so fluid with your life because people that i see do that it it

It can consume you. Yeah, it just takes over, you know. It consumes everything if you're not careful. It's like a reality TV show being in your house. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's it. And you're the camera crew. Yeah, totally, totally. So the other piece I would add to that is just to say, you know, you can make decisions about kids and those kinds of things. You also need to make decisions about subjects that are not going to be on the air.

What parts of our life are our life? And they don't go on the air. The first 10 years Rachel was married, no one ever saw Winston. He hated it. Now he's Mr. Internet. But in the last two years, he's embraced it, right? But John Deloney's kids' faces don't show up on his. He puts cartoon fake covers over them.

Rachel shows her kids. Yeah, I put mine on sometimes. And so forth. But again, Rachel made a comment there that's accurate. We're not in that business. We utilize social media, but we're not in the business of, quote, being an influencer or running a reality show over our Instagram or something. We're utilizing the platform differently. So we're monetizing it differently, number one. Number two, we don't have to –

we don't have to have quite the shoot schedule that you guys might have. Can I say this too? I would, and I don't know how you would, I don't know how you would discern this, Josh, but it's,

somewhere along the lines that this can be an industry, I think, because I could feel myself get into it, that you make money so fast and pretty quick. Like he's true. Like, like, yeah, I need three stories back to back and we'll pay you 15 grand. And you're like, oh my God, it can end up being golden handcuffs where you're making so much. You're making, you know, 400, 500 plus thousand dollars a year. And it is work. I'm not saying it's not, but it's like,

How could we say no if it ever got to a point where it's stressful and it's starting to ruin the family? It could be a hard no to stop because it's such like lucrative money. Does that make sense? You get addicted to it. Well, yeah. And it's like we even if it's ruining us, it's such easy. It's money's right there. Like, oh, my gosh, that would be so hard. So it's like there would be some hard and fast rules of stopping.

If you could lay out ahead of time, which I think is hard, but it can be a golden handcuff kind of thing where you end up sacrificing the family in a sense, even if it's going down because it's just a lot of money. Does that make sense? And people feel that in other jobs, too. But Rachel's in a group of ladies that you would know all of their names and they meet periodically that are friends. And some of them, that is their gig.

And so she's getting the inside scoop on what they're making in that group. And I don't. I'm not in the middle of that. But I've heard the numbers, and I know some of the ladies we're talking about, and they are making bank. So her advice is dead on. What I would tell you is this. The ones I see get messed up, and I'm looking in from the outside, are the ones who this becomes their God rather than God being their God.

And rather than their family is first, their relationships are first, and this is just a job.

That's all it is. And so it doesn't take over. It's in the fourth rung down the ladder of importance. So we get to it when we get to it, but we're not sacrificing the child's mental health or our personal relationship, and we're not violating people. But other than that, I think you try it. I think you put some boundaries on it and move forward and don't believe everything you hear and try to cash some checks.

It's Holy Week in Jerusalem and the city is restless. The people of Israel welcome Jesus as King, his followers ready for revolution. But instead of taking the throne, Jesus turns the tables. "Woe to you scribes and Pharisees! How will you escape being condemned to hell?"

Experience Holy Week like never before. What have you done? Coming soon to theaters. The Chosen. Last Supper. Get your tickets now. I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas. Money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you. Join me and Dr. John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff. And possibly change how you live forever.

Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at ramseysolutions.com slash tour before they're gone. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host and special guest, special gift for you guys to get to meet one of my favorite people on the planet, Lewis Howes. And if you've been listening a long time, you've met him before because it's not your first trip on this cabbage truck.

But Lewis is a New York Times bestselling author, keynote speaker, former professional football player, member of the USA men's national handball team, multiple bestsellers, has an incredible show called The School of Greatness. I've been a guest on it. Rachel's been a guest on it. Everybody. And he's been a guest here many times. We're just friends in this space of helping people change their lives. Welcome, my friend. Welcome back. Thank you very much. Appreciate you guys. Good to see you. The new book is Make Money E.

So he's on the money show to do that. Create financial freedom and live a richer life. Very, very cool. Because most people try to make it hard. They do. So make it easy. Make it easy. And kind of in a different way. We were on my show earlier, and I love the setup because it's not about, or you can say it, but it's not about the investing and the interest rates and the mutual funds and all of it.

It's so much more. It's about the emotion, the heart, the feelings behind money, which you have to get right or it'll ruin you. The stuff that Dave loves talking about the most, the feelings. You know, that's what we talked about earlier. Dave's big on feelings. Loves the feels. Yeah, because, you know, you guys are the money experts. I was just coming to this approach of like, I see so many people struggling with money, trying to understand it. I didn't understand it growing up.

And I was afraid of it. So I was like, how do I have a better, healthier relationship with the idea of money when I receive it, when I spend it, when I give it, all these different things. It was very messy for me. I learned how to make it, but I almost felt trapped by it still. I still felt like I was living in kind of an anxiety, a stress, an emotional like scarcity around it, even though I had a lot of it in the bank. So what made it easy?

Well, getting in touch with my feelings is as weird as that sounds, but kind of going back into the past and assessing my money story. And I grew up at a time in the 80s when my parents didn't have a lot. They got married very young. They worked very hard trying to make ends meet. Four kids. I was the youngest.

And essentially, I didn't have a good belief system around money. And there was different moments and memories that I created meaning around these money stories that was like, okay, I'm not good at making it. I don't understand it. There's a lot of stress involved around money with my parents. Therefore, it's a feel like it's for someone else. Yeah. And it was like scary. And I was like, how can I receive it if I don't understand it?

And as I started making it, it was out of survival to get off my sister's couch. I was living on her couch for about a year and a half when I was 23 to 25. And I just wanted to feel like I could take care of my own life. And so I started finding many mentors, started watching some of your stuff, learning from people locally in Ohio. And I started making it.

But I didn't feel safe with it, and I hoarded it. So I was like, what's the point of all this money if I still don't feel good, if I still feel like something's off inside of me? Amen. And so it's really been a journey over the last decade of, okay, I've got financial peace, but I have a lack of emotional peace still. And that feels...

really scary yeah and the tricky thing is we live in a world where they say if you just have success and money everything's fine yeah and it was the absolute that's a lie yeah money didn't solve my my problems that's right it helped me have a apartment to live in and buy things but it didn't make me feel emotionally safe yep and so I was like what's the point of all this then if I can't feel safe with the money I have and I also feel like it's it's triggering so much more of my

what do we want to call it, wounds or scarcity, where I felt like people were taking advantage of me and they were hurting me. They just wanted to be around me because I was making money. So I felt unvalued even with the money I had. I was like, what's the point of all of this? Yep, totally, getting to that. So that's the approach of this conversation. So you just cycled back through each one of those things, touched them and went, okay, I'm going to own this so that it doesn't own me. Exactly, because every time someone...

poked my emotional wounds, I would react in bigger ways. And I think the money just made me feel even more scarce around it. So it was really going back into the money story and healing a lot of these parts of me where I felt broken and feeling more emotionally whole. So again, I could truly have the financial peace. Well, I think it's such a great example when we say money is a magnifying glass. We've been saying that for years. And that's it, right? Where you're like, all of this was in you, in all of us. And then when you start to win with money,

You are magnified the good and the bad of us. And if you don't go back to those bad parts, which are coming out as stress, coming out as anxiety, all of that,

Yeah. It's like, what am I doing? Like, I was almost better off without all this. And you know what I mean? And it's like, what do I do? And that's where I've seen a lot of people kind of sabotage the money they have because they're like, it didn't solve the problem. Let me spend it all and just go back to being broke. Yeah. Or spend it on vices to medicate or whatever. To numb the emotions. That's right. And Dave's favorite thing to talk about is feelings here. Yes. Yes. So it's really getting to a place. I interviewed Dave earlier and we had a joke about feelings. But it's really getting, for me, it was getting to a place. I just,

I just want to feel more at peace. And having financial peace is one part of the picture, but it amplified my lack of inner peace. And that has to affect relationships too. Every relationship. Like you said, somebody's out to get it or I'm being looked at as a transaction here. Yes. And at the first time I met you, you're now happily married. Yes. When I first met you many years ago, you were a single guy. It had to affect the dating relationships. Absolutely.

It affected all my relationships, business partnerships, friends, family. I had some stuff with family I had to deal with because now I'm the youngest and I'm making the most.

And it felt, I just didn't know how to create boundaries. I didn't know how to have courageous conversations. I didn't want to upset people. I wanted everyone to like me. So let me just give them what everyone's asking for. But then I feel taken advantage of. Now I resent people. Now I resent. All these emotions were swirling around me, the center of money. How did the spiritual part of you kind of weave into some of this too? Because that was a big part of your story. Yeah, for me, it was,

You know, getting, I really appreciate every time I get to talk to you, Dave, because I feel like I get to ask you these questions every now and then, and I don't hear you talk about them that much. And I'm always like, I'm worried about asking a weird question to Dave around spirituality or relationships or feelings, but I get so much value out of it. So I appreciate you for sharing these things and opening up when I talked to you about it.

But for me, I got to a place where I was always making more money in my business. And then one year I made less. And I remember the last time I had, I talked to you, you were like, we made less than the last year. It was still a ton of money, but you're like, it wasn't as much as the year before. And when that happened to me, it kind of broke me psychologically. I mean, it didn't ruin my life, but I was like, I was trying to grasp like air because I couldn't control me not making more money this year or something like some things happen shifts. Yeah.

And it messed with me. And I had to get to a place of really connecting more with God and faith that like money's going to come and money's going to go.

Whether I get way more money this year or next year, I'm going to be okay. If I make less, I'm going to be okay. As long as I live in the values that you guys talk about, which is we're here to serve. I'm going to keep showing up and giving my best. I'm going to live with generosity. And I'm also to keep reflecting on how I can improve and shift things and not just be a victim to what's happening, make decisions, make changes. Right. But I'm here to serve. And I think living in that state makes-

Because it's other-centered rather than self-centered. And all that crap is self-centered that you were dealing with before. And I was ego-driven for not always, but it was like, I need to make more and it needs to look good. And what if the followers are down? And what if the rate? Totally. And I just said, screw all that. Let me serve. Let me add value.

And good things are going to happen. Which goes such against the grain, too, of the applause of the world, right? And so some people are out there and they're like, this may not be like what you're specifically talking about, but it's like, well, I want the nice car to feel like I'm successful. You can plug in any element of this and you're fighting against the world for what the world applauses versus what's really true inner peace. And God's applause. Yeah. Yeah.

Make Money Easy is the new book by our friend Lewis Howes. Recommend you pick it up immediately. You'll notice it by the little kind of dull green cover. No, it's a little bright, got a battery in the back. I love the color. It's excellent. Makes it jump off the shelf. Good marketing, brother. Good marketing. Well done. So we say money is 80% behavior, 20%.

head knowledge and that really those behaviors almost flow out of the piece that you're talking about or don't flow out of the piece you're talking about

So it's not really managing the behaviors, it's managing the emotional state to get to the behaviors. And you talk about this, our beliefs influence our behavior. So if we believe we're not worthy, we're probably going to not create an experience or the working environment or opportunities that add more to our life. If we believe we're unworthy of love, or if we believe we're worthy, then we're going to step into things naturally and behave in accordance and alignment with that belief.

Lewis Howes, make money easy, create financial freedom, and live a richer life. Highly recommend it. Recommend this guy. Be sure and check out his show, The School of Greatness. You'll love it. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Y-Refi. Feeling stuck with defaulted private student loan payments? Y-Refi can reduce your payments and help you regain control of your money. Take the first step toward getting unstuck. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Kayla in Montana.

I want a new car. My husband lives and breathes by Dave's rules and he thinks we can't afford one. We're both 35 years old and together bring home $700,000. Our only debt we have is our $600,000 mortgage on our home and a $65,000 rental home.

Our net worth is close to $1 million. We have two young daughters and plan to add it to our family soon. So I want to save up and buy a new midsize SUV this year. My husband wants to purchase a used full-size SUV and keep it for a minimum of seven years. Which one of us is correct? I don't understand. My husband wants to purchase a used and keep it for a minimum of seven years. She wants to buy a brand new car.

Oh, buy new. I hear, I hear. And he wants to buy a used one and keep it. Okay, I see, I see. Yeah. So the problem here, Kayla, is not the car. And the problem here is not your husband following the Ramsey rules because your husband is not following them. The Ramsey rules include working with your spouse and being on the same page with your spouse. And you, Kayla, have nothing to do with anything here.

You just stand back and ask for stuff. And he decides if he's going to give it or not. That is not a Ramsey rule. Instead, you should be like a grown-up person, not a child wanting something from her daddy, and be one of the two votes on where this freaking $700,000 goes. That is what we teach. We don't teach what your husband is doing, nor what you are doing. And so you guys got to get...

talking about okay here's the future I want and here's the steps it's going to take to get to the future yeah and how do we get there how does a car purchase fit in that future but you sound like a 16 year old having a hissy fit because your daddy won't buy you a car

and that's just ridiculous that's not the position you should be in as the wife no but she may feel on the other end of the coin frustrated if they're making there's a serious amount of pouting in this no but if they make if they make 700 000 a year they make plenty of money that's what i'm saying but she doesn't she's like hey can we spend 50 grand on an suv and he's like nope nope nope nope and she's like they're not they're not this is again this is like

Daddy, we got the money. No. And daddy's saying, no, we don't have the money. I follow Dave. Well, you don't follow Dave because you don't treat your wife like a 16-year-old child. Yeah. Your wife is a full-grown woman and stuff. Okay, so what if they... And so she needs to be involved in the discussion. Okay, so if they're both... The thing is positioned wrong. Okay, that's the first... Okay. That's my point. Okay, so what if they're both adults?

And they're both talking about it. And she's like, listen, we have plenty of money. We can do this. Our net worth is. What we teach is and what I lived with my wife who had a vote and I had a vote. What you have lived with your husband who had a vote and you had a vote was that we don't buy a brand new vehicle because they go down in value regardless of your income until you have a million dollar net worth. And you, darling, don't have a million dollar net worth.

And so, no, I would not buy a house. I would buy a two-year-old SUV. Yes. And I don't think you have to keep it seven years. I don't care how long you keep it. But you buy used cars and let someone else take the butt kicking on the depreciation. You don't spend money on things that go down in value like a rock while you're trying to get out of debt and build wealth, even if you have a $700,000 income. Because they do have a $600,000 mortgage, right? So I'm like, there's like... There's something wrong. Where the heck is all this money going? Right, right. I mean, my gosh.

You ought to be able to write a check by that SUV and not even had this discussion. And pay off the rental house. Pay off the rental house and get your house paid off. Right, right. And live on $100,000 one year. Right. What the flip are you people doing? I mean, there's money going out of here like you guys are in Congress.

So, yeah, and, you know, but the immaturity in this is just dripping. Yeah, that's fair. So the positioning of it is wrong. So you guys need to be like we're both going to sit down. We're both going to say, okay, this is the principles we're going to use in our house.

And based on those principles, we are going to make these decisions together. And that's not him dictating that to you or you dictating it to him. This is we're going to decide where we're going. And if you want to follow the Ramsey rules, it would be, I don't know that Ramsey has rules. If you want to follow the processes that we teach that have caused people to build wealth, it is two grownups working together toward an agreed goal and the shortest possible distance between here and that goal.

two grown-ups. Now, they'll come at it from different angles. We can have discussions based on our different personality styles or different histories. We can have all kinds of discussions here, but it's never, I want a car and Dave Ramsey, my husband's a Dave Ramsey nut, and he won't buy me a car. And that's exactly the way this sounds. I think you're offended that she... No, I mean, it's just...

I'm kidding. No, I'm kidding. I'm not offended at all. I know. But you're right. And I think the frustration comes from when we've talked to so many married couples. The positioning. Well, that and it reveals the state of the marriage and probably how it is. And you care more about their marriage in that sense. You as people need to become healthier. And these decisions coming out of that...

become way more peaceful and you know more mature if you want me to get really tacky i could start guessing how he makes 700 a year that causes him to be the daddy what i could do that and i probably would be right but i won't that's tacky so i think i know what he does for a living and uh like a whole life no no no no no he's in an industry where he's god and he's used to being in charge

And he makes a ton of money. He has power. And he's used to telling people what to do all day long. And his wife is on the list of people he tells what to do. And so she's adopted the position of kid rather than wife. And that's where the seven, assuming he makes all the 700K. I got a feeling she doesn't make hardly any of the 700K or she'd be raising up even heavier. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. If she made the 700K, we might not have got the email.

Mm-hmm. So in the way this thing's positioned. So this is the dynamic we're talking about. Why are we covering this and why are we poking such holes in it is because in all the millionaires we've studied, the data is very clear. 80-plus percent of them have a solid marriage relationship where the two of them are both aligned on the goals and the process to get there.

not you know and have the guy the guy's not like well my wife won't give me any money I work all day but she and she treats him like he's 15 years old he brings a check home and gives it to mama and

and mama don't take care of him. And, you know, we don't hear that from the millionaires. Or the other. Or the vice versa, which is this one. Yeah, the dictator in the home, yeah. Yeah, and that we don't, this model right here of relationship does not, the data does not bode well for this model. It says you're not going to do well. I don't even care if you make 600K. You cannot out-earn your stupidity. I've tried it. Well, yeah, and money is such a reflection, though. It's kind of what we were talking about with Lewis in the last segment, is

it's a reflection so much of who you are and your character and the health of you, right? And money either magnifies those healthy versions of you or it magnifies the unhealthy broken sides, which we all have both. Including relationships. Including the marriage. So him bringing in, or them, she says we bring home together $700,000, so I don't know who brings it home, but the idea that you're making a lot of money is magnifying through a car purchase...

some of those dysfunctional parts of the marriage. And, you know, looking at that and becoming healthier in that fixes some of this. And I don't want... I guess maybe I did rise up on this. I'm thinking about it emotionally. I don't want any of you using our name or the stuff we teach as a weapon in your house. And that's what's going on here. He lives and breathes by Dave's rules and thinks we can't afford one. So he's using...

Like bad guying off of us. Well, Dave says you can't do that. Right? Instead of actually manning up and walking through the concept and getting agreement based on logic. Instead, you blame it on somebody off in the podcast land. And that's complete cowardice. So yeah, quit using my name as a weapon. Pisses me off. This is The Ramsey Show. I knew that was in there.

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Bob is with us in Pennsylvania. Hey, Bob, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Good afternoon, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I want to preface my question by saying thank you for giving us the tools to be financially successful. Cool. We've been drinking the Kool-Aid for six years, and life is way different today than it was. Well, thank you, sir. I'm glad. Thank you. That being said, I'm still paying for some of the sins of the past.

We are co-signed on five private student loans for two of our children to the tune of $37,500. Total? $37,500 each or total? Total. Okay, good. I about passed out. Okay. They are struggling financially, and some months we're co-signed, so we've signed up for it. We have to make some payments on these loans. We have $500 a month in our budget.

We don't ever exceed that, but we use it most months. So my question is, we're in Baby Step 6, fully funded emergency fund. Do we back up the Baby Step 2 and pay these off? I don't really want to give them a free pass. Or do we continue to just use our monthly budget to make the process continue? How many kids?

We have three. Two of them are involved in this process. Child number one, his loans are done. Okay. And what do you guys make? What's your household income? $150,000. Okay. All right. Yeah, I don't want to give them a free pass, but when you co-signed, you did that. Free pass is already out the door. Okay.

I wish they had gone out and built careers based on their education enough to pay $37,000, which is not like the largest number I've ever heard. It would be like $15,000, $20,000 each if they were split into it. I wish that really should be very reachable. So I'm trying to think what I would do. How old are these two? 32 and 26, and they each have about half of it. Okay. I'm...

hesitant to try to teach someone that old a lesson, even if it's my kid. You know what I'm saying? And so, you know, if this was a younger, a little fresher, I might say, okay, I'm going to. 22 or something. I may pay it off, but I'm going to weave into that some kind of thing where they pay it back or something like that. But I think this is already way down the river, it feels like. These kids have been out of school a long time.

Right. Well, the 32 year old is one semester away from finishing his doctorate. So he's really been a student for a while. In what? The young music. What's he planning on doing with it, Bob? Do you know?

Um, he, he was, his goal was to be a professor and I think he got very close to the end and decided that, I don't know that I want to do that. And he kind of just bailed. Well, there's no use for a PhD in music then. Um, I mean the knowledge base you got could be useful in the music world, but the PhD is not necessary for, it's not, it's not an entry barrier. Um, um,

Yeah, it's a tough call. Yeah, it is. I'm struggling with it a little bit. And what I'm trying to have go through my head is, you know, Rachel's in her 30s. If this was me, am I going to just pay this and go, okay, it's my fault, my mistake. She ain't getting around to it by now. I'm probably not going to. I need to get this off my plate for my sake. And that's what's running through my head. I think you need to clear it for your sake, even though I'm pretty aggravated at these two.

I wish they had done better. I'm not, I'm not really yell at them, but I'm, I'm mildly aggravated like $37,000 worth. And so, um,

But I think for your sake, your wife's sake, this is going to haunt you and nag at you and nip at your heels and bite you every three months. You've got to make a payment and all that, and you've got a good income. I would probably go back to beans and rice and just clear this like in a year and get it out of my life and not worry about it and then let the chips fall where they fall. And if the kids wake up one day and send you a check, I'd cash it.

But if they don't, fine too, and I'm not going to worry about it. The big deal is it's not about them, it's about you. And so I think looking at it through that lens, that tells me to pay it. So would you dump the emergency fund and start over? Yeah, how much is in it? 30. 30? We're a little short. 30, yeah. Yes, I would. Yeah. Yeah, I'd just start clearing them off.

And then you got to decide what, you know, send your children an email or and to follow up with a phone call and go. We paid this off, not for you, but because we wanted it out of our life. We feel like you're still responsible for this, but you do with that what you want or something like that. But I'm not going to.

you know add to a burden or take away a burden from them necessarily well and i was going to say too but they need to know it's paid off because they're going to see the thing has the zero balance so you need to talk about it yeah and then even the strings attached element still affects the relationship right like if you were like i still expect you to pay me back you know what i mean i really wouldn't go into that level i just go you do what you think is right we paid it off and we didn't pay it off for you we paid it off for us

That that's the true statement because you didn't, you didn't pay it off to help them. You paid it off because you were stupid and co-sign. And now you got to clear it. Me too. I did that too. Okay. Not with student loans, but I've done it with other stuff. So not picking on you, but, um, and I'm sorry. I it's, that's a bit of a quandary though. It's an interesting discussion. Thanks for having it with us. I think I'm going to approach it through what's good for you and your wife and

and let the 30-year-olds figure it out. What was your gut, Bob, you and your wife? Did you guys have a strong opinion or leaning a certain way, either one of you? We've kind of declared war on our mortgage holder, and we're down to 102. Oh, man. Oh, no. And so this will put that on hold probably for about a year because last year we paid almost $32,000 on principle. How old are you guys?

61 and 58. Yeah, you're going to be there. You'll be there in a heartbeat. And this is going to just change because every time this bill comes, you revisit all the emotions. And if I'm you, I selfishly don't want that anymore. That's what I mean. It's like a dog biting me once a month. You know what I'm saying? I absolutely know what you're saying. And so I'm fighting for you guys and...

And I think it's just the last thing you do to clean up. And your kids are just too old to put them in some kind of headlock and teach them a lesson is my opinion. I can't imagine. I mean, my kids are similar ages, and I just can't imagine doing that. I can't imagine it working is what I mean. I can imagine doing it, but I can't imagine it working. Four.

forcing us into a life lesson. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so hard. I mean, if they're 22, you can sit them down and have a good talking to, you know, a little come to Jesus meeting, but they're not 22. And it's just, it is another example, which we have. Never. We have a textbook full of these examples of co-signing. Never co-sign. But I mean, it's this. And thank God, you know, Bob, they have the money. We talked to a lot of people that co-sign for a car and they can't even make the payment, nor the person that, you know, had the, like,

But again, it's the relational aggravation and strain that debt causes on people, and it's not worth it. And I know he said they're still paying for it. It's kind of like almost the stupid tax idea. By the way, Junior went on and worked on his PhD while he didn't pay the loan. Yeah. He's been paying for that. So, oh my gosh.

So pretty inconsiderate of mom and dad when your job was to clear the loan. Yeah. You're not even making your payments on time. You're 33 freaking years old. Yeah. While you're working on a PhD that marketplace value, if you're not going to be a professor, is not probably wasn't worth what you paid for it. So, wow. Unbelievable. Thanks for the call, Bob. If you're a professor, it'll come back. Oh, man. I'm sorry. But thanks for having the discussion with us. I think you guys are fine. You're still going to be multimillionaires. You're still going to get your house paid off.

And you won't have the next three years of aggravation. And that's good. This is The Ramsey Show.

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