Short-Term Thinking Keeps You From Building Long-Term Wealth
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Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jay Bosh, our Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Megan is with us in Chicago. Hi, Megan. How are you?

Hi, how are you? Thanks for having me. Sure, what's up? Well, just quick context. My husband is an addict. He, on average, spends about $6,000 a year on his addiction to tobacco and marijuana. We've had kind of a rough couple of months. His father passed away, his grandfather passed away.

I'm currently pregnant with our third child and taking a toll on him. So I've actually seen his spending go up a little bit. I shouldn't say a little bit. It's kind of doubled in the past couple months. Last month was $700 alone on his addictions. Anyway, that by way of context, my...

Main question is we have a car payment. It's $600 a month. We currently have the cash that I could write a check and pay off the car. The loan is $20,000 and some change. And we would still have six months emergency reserve, like you suggest. My concern is with his kind of out of control and erratic behavior right now,

I'm afraid if I do cut a check, pay off the car, and we gain the $600 monthly to help with groceries and other bills, I'm afraid it's just going to go out the window and we can't contribute to savings. Things are super tight anyway. What's your household income?

Right now it's 156. Does he agree that he has a problem? Is he willing to get help? He does agree and he says he wants to get help, but I have to say like the come to Jesus talk happens about every two weeks. So wait a minute. Okay, one more time. What's your household income? 156 a year. Okay, and what do you make and what does he make?

I'm a stay-at-home mom right now, and so the whole salary is on his side. So if you said to him... You use language differently than I do, okay? Okay. If I was to say that my wife was an addict, that would mean that our marriage was either getting ready to end or she was getting help next week.

Yeah. But you use this like it's part of the budget. Yeah. Yeah, it has been for several years. Yeah, that's on you. Yeah, that's why if you said you've had several come to Jesus moments and he's clearly not gotten the help, at the very least, have you had the conversation of, well, if you're not going to get help, I need to be in control of the money because you're going to starve us.

Yeah, I am in control of the money. Then how does he get money for pot? Right. How is he getting the money for drugs and tobacco? He only has access to his paycheck, which goes into our joint account. He has the only paycheck? Yeah. So you're not in control of the money? No.

Well, we have a joint account that he has. But when I say you being in control of the money, I mean he doesn't have access to it because he's not well. I see what you're saying. If you're going to call him an addict, you're going to have to act like it.

Yeah. Otherwise, you could just say, my husband smokes some pot sometimes and he drinks sometimes and it runs about 500 bucks a month and I'm not OK with that. That's a different statement than opening the call with my husband is an addict. Agree. That's what I mean by language differences.

Because I kind of think your husband smokes some pot sometimes. And I think he drinks sometimes. And it runs $500 to $700 a month. And he makes $150,000 a year. He can actually afford it. It's not really killing your household unless his behavior becomes erratic and he loses his freaking job because he's so freaking mellow from smoking dope all the time.

Okay. On the spectrum from what Dave said, where is he? Where does he lie on that spectrum? I mean, if you want to call him an addict, I'm okay with that. But you're going to have to act like it then for your sake and the kid's sake. You don't leave children in the home with an addict. For years. Yeah. It's unhealthy. Yeah. I get it. I get it. So, you know, you're either going to have to reclassify this in your mind, right?

Or you're going to take some more severe action than you have been willing to take so far. So because you're not if OK, if he drinks a six pack of beer or whatever, I don't know whatever this equates to. I don't even know what it amounts to. But anyway, the the and it's not affecting he's not drunk and it's not affecting his work life. But you don't like it. That's different than an addict.

Yeah, that's the question I have. Is this is this just like Dave said, is it a budgetary thing? Is it a thing that you think, hey, you shouldn't be spending money on this? There's better things we could be spending money on. You said his behavior is erratic. What do you mean by that?

Yeah, I guess I didn't want to go into everything, but yeah. We're here now. Okay, I'm happy to divulge, but I was just trying to keep it to the point. Well, the problem is, here's the issue, okay? The problem in the household was presented as,

You have, there's an addiction in the household. And I can't tell you what to do with the car loan until we address the problem. Okay. Because the problem is, you're right, but you're trying to say, oh, well, not paying off the car, keeping some savings back is going to make this living with an addict. Okay, it doesn't.

No. And paying off the car and working our plan, doing the smart things with it, getting yourself out of debt, using $156,000 to be debt-free, living on a budget where you're not worried about food and that kind of stuff because you mentioned food. And you shouldn't have a shortage of food in a $156,000 household, even if there's a $700 addiction problem. It's still the math doesn't keep you from eating, right? Well, it does. No, it doesn't. What are the other factors we're missing? Mathematically, it does not. Tell us what we're missing, Megan. Okay.

Okay, well, so just this past month, he spent $700 on his addiction. Our mortgage is $3,400. Your car payment is $600. Car payment is $600. What's your take-home pay every month, just so I know? I'm doing this math with you. After bills, after everything? No, no, no. What is his check? What check hits the bank?

The check is $393,000. $3,900. Twice a month? Yeah. Okay. You got way too much coming out of this check. You must be putting money in 401k. Yeah, I know he's contributing to 401k. I'm not sure what that is. Yeah, okay. You guys got serious other issues, hon. Y'all need to sit down with a good marriage counselor, and you need to come to a conclusion that this is not an addiction. It is a use.

or it is an addiction and the marriage needs to come to an end and the children need to be moved out of a house of an addict. It's not safe for them. But when you're making $8,000 a month take-home pay and you have a $3,000 house payment, you are not out of food because he spent $750. Now, you are going to be out of food if he loses his job because he stays drunk all the time. So I can't tell what the flip's going on here.

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Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Caleb is in London. Hi, Caleb. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. Sure. How can we help?

My father has got terminal cancer. He's got about a year to live and he's decided to give me and my brother some money before he dies for me to buy a house and my brother to pay off his house. So he wants to give each of us $340,000. And my question is, should I try and get kind of the best house for the money I can get or should I try and just get the cheapest things, if you know what I mean, the cheapest house straight out the gate?

What else? What's the other picture of your financial situation? Are you out of debt? Is it time for you to buy a house? Okay. So I've just started the baby steps. I'll have completed, I'll have my emergency $1,000 by the end of this month. Good. And then I have $1,600 of credit card debt, but nothing else. Oh. And I rent at the moment. I rent at the moment. So what does $340,000 get you in your area? Is that an apartment? Okay.

So, the low range of houses in my area is $600,000, but I could probably borrow up to $850,000. Now, my kind of gut instinct is to... Me and my girlfriend are very simple people. We don't... When we think of what we'd need in a house, we just want three bedrooms. We don't really care about too much else. So, I'm kind of...

You know, we don't have children and we're not planning to have children. So it's not like I foresee us having to move, you know, another couple of times in our life. So that's why I'm kind of thinking, should I kind of get something that we'll be happy with for the long term? Or do we just try and get something very basic to start with? I don't know. I would start with what you can afford. And if you have 340, I like the idea of putting more than half down on something that's maybe in the $600,000 range.

Because then you're doing what we teach in Above and Beyond, which is going to put you in a really great situation. Because the truth is, you don't know, Caleb, what's going to happen on down the line. Maybe you will get married. Maybe you will have a family. And maybe you will want to move up in house. And if that does happen, maybe five to seven years from now, you'll have gained equity and you'll be able to transition out of that house into something more and maybe pay cash for it. Because at that point, you'll have no payments. Maybe this current house will be paid off. So it does set you up in a really great way.

If you were in America, I would tell you that your assumptions are BS because the number of times that people stay in a home longer than six years or seven years in America is almost none.

The average house rolls every six years here. And so when someone in America tells me, this is my forever home, I call BS. That's never true. Because your only forever home is heaven. And so you're not going to be there forever. That's just a bull. But I don't know the differences in the UK and in London, whether that might be –

You might be there a long time. I don't know that that would be a cultural difference is what I'm saying. And that I could, that is possible. I'm not familiar with, but I'm with Jade. I think you get into something that, you know, you can afford your dad's it's, it's one of his last wishes that you have a home. It all needs to be in your name since you're not married again. I don't know UK law, but in the States you don't put girlfriends on houses.

Okay. Not when daddy gives me the money. We do plan to get married. Well, that would be after you get married, the surname could be on the house then. Because, again, I'm going off of U.S. law, and I don't know what divorce law looks like there and all that kind of stuff. But in the States, it's suicidal to put your girlfriend on your house or your car. You're asking for trouble. There was one other related question I had to this, and that was whether I had the idea.

It looks like you fell off, but I saw the other part of the question. It looks like you wanted to possibly invest the money. No, I would put it in the house. Because this is what, it's his dad's money. His dad's giving it to him. It's his last wish and his last year of life. Buy a house. Yeah, that's not, no, I'm not going to do something else with it.

Yeah. And I think you're right. I think you buy a conservative property. In his case, that sounds like it's five or six hundred thousand with three hundred down. And then go ahead and get it paid off and put it in your name. And that isn't going in step with the baby steps. 3B is when you would save up the down payment for a house. In this case, it was gifted to him. We didn't change anything for that call. Yeah. Very good. Good point. Dan's in Philadelphia. Hi, Dan. How are you? Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

All right. I had a quick question. I have about $130,000 in crypto. I'm sorry. Can you hear me? Yeah, I'm sorry. Oh, sorry. I have about $130,000 in crypto. No, but he's sorry that you have the money invested in crypto. Oh, okay. It was a joke, but not really. Oh, okay. I've made out pretty well on the investment side.

And after newly listening to your show and hearing what you have to say about cryptocurrency, I'm starting to get a little scared with it. Yeah. So also at this time, I'm looking to buy a house. I was wondering, do I...

When I go to sell that cryptocurrency, do I put a large majority of it towards the house or would I sell it and keep some kind of like and have a large nest egg? Good for you. Okay. The only thing I want to change in the conversation is I want to change the word invest because you don't invest into commodities that are new and don't have a history. You speculate. Right.

So you're a crypto speculator. And there's people that have made money speculating in crypto, but it's a short-term play. It's not a long-term play. And it's very volatile. And so, yes, I would a lot rather, based on all the data we have on wealth building, the number of people that bought homes that became wealthy far surpasses the number of people that became wealthy in crypto.

Okay. So if I were you, I would take the money out and put it into something much more predictable, much more stable, which would be a good home purchase. And yes, I'd put it all in the house because we're going to lead you. And if you've been around this for more than five minutes, you know we're going to lead you out of debt because then you get control of your most powerful wealth building tool, which is your income.

and it's not crypto. Your income is your most powerful wealth building tool, and you go use that to become very wealthy once you get the house paid off, and you get the house paid off faster by putting the whole thing down. Now, you make sure you're debt-free. Yeah, emergency fund. And you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, and then we put everything else we have above that on the house, as big a possible down payment as you can. So the last two calls bring up the exact same point, and that is...

wealthy people do not see mortgages as forever. Middle class and poor people see mortgages as forever. Wealthy people ask how much, poor people ask how much down, how much a month, how much a month. That's a big one. And so if you're going to, if you're going to get your mortgage or your house based on how much down, how much a month you're thinking like poor people,

You're thinking, I want to be a slave to the bank the rest of my life. Wealthy people, if they take out a mortgage, detest it, hate it, fight to get it paid off. And then when they do, they yell, I'm debt free. OK, then this is the path of the wealthy, not just Ramsey people. But when we study millionaires, this is what they do. And millionaires have a mindset that is long term.

And it is very freedom oriented. That's right. Free from control by other people. One of the reasons people build wealth is it gives you margin. It gives you distance between other people telling you what to do. If you have a million dollars in a mutual fund and you have zero debt and your boss walks in and starts cussing you, you can just walk off. Where are you going? I don't have any payments. I'm not putting up with you. Bye.

Right. But if your boss starts cussing in you and you have, you know, payments coming out your ears and a student loan that's been around so long, you think it's a pet. Right. Then you'd be stuck in a toxic job because you got to eat and stuff. But you put yourself in that corner. You painted and painted and painted and painted. And now you're standing in the corner and you're going to get paint on your shoes. That's it. And so that's this is the thing. So the both of those calls are.

You know, should I invest it instead of putting it all down on the house? Both of them said that. $340 from dad, $130 from crypto. Should I invest some of it or put it all on the house? The answer is put it all on the house and write in the four column of the check freedom. That's right. This is an investment to freedom because freedom is where wealth comes from. It doesn't come from stepping up to the bank and kissing their butt.

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of 2025. Plus, right now, you can get 50% off a new SimpliSafe system with 24-7 professional monitoring at SimpliSafeDirect.com. That's 50% off at SimpliSafeDirect.com. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Mike is in Pittsburgh. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, how you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right, so I'm 36, or about to be, and I want to propose to my girlfriend, but we disagree on finances. We agree on everything else. But the problem is I want to combine finances. She has a rental property, and I have a house. I just sold a piece of land that I'm going to walk away with $180,000. And I want to pay off my house. I have a budget. I made a budget. It's paid off in about four years. And I want to rent it out and then buy a bigger house with her.

And, you know, I talked to her about, you know, paying off my house quickly and then throwing a bunch of money at her rental and pay that off faster so that we have, you know, more cash flow coming in from the two houses. Well, she wants, you know, she said if we do get married, she wants to sign a prenup, which, you know, I don't agree with. And I see no reason for it because, you know. Your asset base is fairly similar. Right. So you're not ready to propose. Is her family wealthy? Yeah.

No, no. My family's got a beat on that half. Hey, Mike, how long y'all been dating? About eight months. Okay. All right. You've got some more work to do on this relationship before it becomes a marriage. And here's why. Right. You called to ask our opinion, so I'll give you my opinion. I'm going to treat you like you're my kid because my kids are your age, okay? And I...

The number one cause of divorce in North America is disagreement over money, money fights, money problems. Okay. And you are sitting square in the middle of it. And here's the problem. Jesus said, your treasure is where your heart is. People spend their money on what they value, right?

And Dr. John Deloney says behavior is a language. And so when she says, I don't like your plan, I don't like it so much that I want my stuff to be separated in a prenup. What she's saying is, I don't agree with how you're spending your money and our value systems are not aligned. You value different things. And if you want to go super extreme, she likes her rental property more than she likes you.

All right. That's super extreme. That's super extreme. I think she's sort of short-sighted in her views because all she has is her savings, which is $160,000, she says. This is not a dollar amount thing. This is a power struggle.

And we're not aligned on our values because you spend your money on what you value and you value different things than she values. This makes for a very long and uncomfortable life if you stay married and you probably won't statistically. So you guys have got to continue to have this discussion until we can come to some kind of mediated conclusion.

agreement on what we're going to do with our lives and that we like each other. We love each other more than this stuff. Yeah, because the response to conflict can't be, well, then I'm just going to take my stuff over here. I'm going to take my toys and go home.

The response is let's enter into it and figure out where we both stand and how we can do this together. So that's to me, that's a red flag. It's no, it's a it's a it's a it's a no go forward flag. It's not just a red flag. It's I think a lot of don't go forward until you solve this. I'm not saying you have to break up with her, but I please do not get engaged and get married because you're statistically you have almost no chance.

Right. I think a lot of it comes from her mother. You know, her mom's always raised her. Once you have kids, your life is over, even though she wants to have kids. And then her mom, you know, she kind of has the outlook of you need to have money to run away if something goes bad. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. There we go. So we're already planning our exit and we hadn't even gotten to the altar.

Yeah, and she says she goes to therapy to work on all that because she doesn't agree with her mom and she doesn't like that outlook. But I think, you know, we always say the apple never falls far from the tree. Well, it hasn't yet. It hasn't yet. It can roll away over time. It can, but it hasn't yet. So because she's functioning in exactly the same fears, as soon as you bumped into –

We're going to be closely and completely knit together with the restructuring of this situation after we get married. The thing you proposed was very interwoven. It violated this keep things separate so I can bolt thing, and she retreated to a prenup.

And all of that is it's not an issue of the prenup. It's not an issue of the real estate. It's an issue of how the relationship's going. And it says you're not aligned. There are four things that if you're aligned on them statistically, you will have a 90 percent probability of your marriage lasting money, money.

In-laws. Oh, wait. Mothers involved. OK. Children. Oh, wait. We're already talking about that and possibly disagreed. OK. And oh, wait. Religion. That's the only one of the four we hadn't got to. And you've got to get some alignment on those things. So you guys have some work to do on the relationship. I would suggest some good pre-marriage counseling.

And see if you can begin to not only discuss where these fears and values come from, but which of them we're going to keep and which ones we're going to take forward into the future.

into the marriage. It could be that you're a little uptight and spreadsheet dude, nerd dude, and you need to loosen up on that. That might be. I didn't hear that, but it could be. If you were going to fall on one side or the other, that's the side you would fall on based on talking to you. Yeah, it sounded like that. But it didn't sound toxic. But I think you scared her. Well, I think what...

It sounded to me like what she was dealing with was fear-based and it wouldn't have mattered who the guy was. Oh, that's what I mean. That idea of getting... The proposal of the interwoven freaked her out. Freaked her out, yeah. And so it's not a discussion of the validity of prenups.

It's a discussion of the proper way to do marriage relationships for statistical probability of success. Right. That's right. Hello. I mean, that sounds like no romantic at all, but there you go. So because, you know, I got, you know, 43 years I'm in. You want the statistical probability of success. It's really, really good. Yeah. You want to be where I am. It's sweet. I got eight grandbabies. I got...

three wonderful people have married my children that I love dearly yeah I actually like them all that's so weird you know that is weird that means I raised children to pick well okay and and so the whole family actually got together Sunday night we had a blast oh yeah I saw some of the videos yeah yeah dunking them yeah the whole bit so the I mean but I mean that's

That's not an accidental thing. Well, let me ask you this, because I don't want to put a broad blanket over it, but I kind of feel this way. Don't you feel like when you're dating, like when you're in that phase between dating, about to get engaged, don't you think it should be easy? It's been so long, I forgot. Like, I just feel like,

I'm like, man, to have these level of disagreements and fights, like that always just feels like... That's true. They're a little bit older. I was 22. Yeah, I was 22 as well. We got married when I was 22. That's true. So I don't have anything to put that on. He's been single a long time. Yeah, standards are higher. You got two older singles. Yeah. They're more entrenched. That's true. That is very true. When you're 22, it's like...

Or at least it was for me. And for me too. Now that I think back, I'm like, okay, that's why I said I don't want to make a broad statement. It's very important to be aligned on those four things. And if you combine that with a six-month or so engagement period minimum...

maximum of a year or year and a half, and you combine that with pre-marriage counseling, those six things combined will put you in the 90 percentile that you'll still be married 25 years later. Yeah, I believe it. And so pre-marriage counseling aligned on those four things and a reasonable length of engagement, not too long, not too short.

And the data, that's all from research, folks. That's studying the actual divorce stats. 50% of the marriages end in divorce. Yeah, that includes all these people that should not have gotten married in the first place because they didn't do any of those things I just talked about.

Right. And if they did them, they would have run away. That's right. Run away. Like Jeff Foxworthy said, when I was a kid, we had a cat and it tore up mama's curtains. Uh-huh. And the next day that cat ran away. Oh, yeah. So you run away. You go to the farm. Yeah.

You go to the train station. You run away. You run. So I don't think that's where the stage that he's at. I don't think Mike's at that stage. No, he's got a lot of thinking to do. But he is at the, as the teenagers used to say, the define the relationship stage. Yeah, they got a lot of thinking and decisions to make. The DTR right now. And you're going to have to sit down probably with a good pre-marriage counselor and help you work through that. She's probably a keeper, but not yet.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly right. These are the two options. Take care of your dadgum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually...

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you make too much money to be this broke and you wonder where your money's going, well, the first step is getting a plan. It's called a budget. Our team is hosting free budget trainings this month to not only show you how to do a budget, but show you how to get out of debt and become wealthy and outrageously generous.

You'll learn step-by-step how to make and stick to a budget using EveryDollar. Plus, you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q&A. Spots are limited. Sign up for free at EveryDollar.com slash webinar. Justin is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hey, Justin, what's up?

How are you, sir? I am looking at building a new house for my family and I'm just worried about the mortgage on it and the monthly cost and what that will kind of look like for our family considering we have a little bit of a unique situation. What's the unique situation?

So, I have twin boys, my wife and I, that are turning five years old, but they both have semi-severe disabilities. And we are outgrowing our current house, and we need a bigger house. But...

due to the things that need to be in this house, the size of it, etc. It is not going to be a small house and it won't be necessarily cheap and I think that the monthly payment will be about half of our take-home pay. What is the nature of their severe disabilities?

So they were both born, well, they're twins, obviously they're both born at the same time. They were born three months premature, one having a significant brain bleed, which has caused fairly severe cognitive and physical delayments. And then the other one has a condition called central core myopathy. Sorry. Yeah.

He's on a ventilator and requires pretty much 24-7 constant care. We have some day nurses and night nurses that are able to help us out, but on the times they're not here, one of us kind of has to be with him 24-7. So sleep in his room with him. They both need to be picked up and carried wherever they need to go. So

Their bathrooms are going to need to be bigger. Bedrooms are going to need to be bigger than standard size. Things like ceiling-mounted Hoyer lifts. We need a larger garage because the van, you know, has a fold-out ramp. All sorts of that kind of stuff. And actually, I'm also paralyzed. You're paralyzed? Yeah.

Yes, sir. Yes. I was paralyzed at the age of 12. And I work in actually the architecture field. I'm a designer. And so I've designed the house and there's nothing fancy in it. No granite countertops, no hardwood floors, trying to make this as affordable as possible. But with current construction prices and interest rates, it's looking like it'll be about half our take home pay. What does your wife do? Yeah.

She's a teacher. Okay. Justin, I can't imagine what y'all are facing. Just the day-to-day grind of care in your home is overwhelming. And so I want nothing but good things for you, my friend. And the last thing I want for you is a house payment that's 50% of your take-home pay. It will add to your stress, not relieve it.

Yeah.

You've undone all of the advantages of all that care by putting your family in a bankruptcy scenario.

And so you just cannot function when your house payment is 50% of your take-home pay. It will not work. It's not sustainable. You can't eat. Everything that you do from this point forward, any other things you do with your life will be new debt, and the debt piles up because you've destroyed what economists call disposable income. There's no room left in your budget for life. You become what we call house poor.

And so what we've got to do, and I don't know how to do it on the phone call, on the radio, on the podcast, but what we've got to do is we have to solve for a better living situation that doesn't break your family. Because you've got two options right now, and both of them suck. Staying where you are in an untenable physical condition situation with all the things you guys are facing, and the other option is bankrupt your family.

And you don't get a pass on math because of tragedy. You don't get a pass on math because of unbelievable, heartbreaking challenges that you guys are facing. So I'm not diminishing those things at all. But the math will catch you and make your life worse. And I don't want that for you, my friend.

So, I mean, what you've got to talk about is, okay, what elements of the square footage are we going to do away with if we build to get the price down to where we can do it? Or do we take some money and just start renovating where we are and create a more tenable situation there? On the twins, can I be – you've been very kind to give us all the information, and it's very hard information. Can I ask a hard question? Sure.

Yes, sir. Is the life expectancy on the twins long-term? For one of the boys, yes. The brain bleed probably has no, you know, effect on his long-term life. He'll just need assistance and care throughout life. My other son... That's why you couldn't get those words out when you were talking about him, right?

Yes, sir. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. I don't blame you. I can't breathe. I can't breathe, and I just met you, so I get it. Okay? Yeah. They don't know a ton about the condition, and so it's hard to predict. Oh, and I don't want to be indelicate, but you also don't want to – gosh, I don't even know. I'm going to say it just because I'm supposed to, but you don't put the family, the entire family –

in, um, jeopardy to build a room out where there's not good life expectancy.

And that's not fair to the rest of the family. And that sounds very cold and like I don't care about the kid. That's not what I mean at all. But I'm stepping back, and you called for us to love you well, and I want to be kind to you and tell you the truth. So I think you do all you can for all your kids. All of us do that. We all love our kids. And everyone listening right now's heart is broken and is praying for you guys right this second.

And I want you to do something that has a good long-term plan for your family. So we've got to reset your plan to where it's not 50%. And I don't know what else to tell you. I do know we'll put one of our financial coaches over there to help you at our cost. We'll pay for them and get them in your corner and see if they can give you a better answer than Jade and I were able to do here on the air.

I mean, if he's designing this house, I wonder if there's a way he can design something that's a little less upfront but provides the space over time to do the things they need. The thing we designed would be the best for every single thing, but something's got to give. Yeah, what's the least priority? So let's start force-ranking these features in the house, and what features in the house can we cut back on that cut the cost down? That's right. That's right.

I did that, but for much less noble reasons when I built the last house. We grew it up and we went, I don't think so. So I think we're not going to do that. And we're not going to do that. And we're not going to do that because it got into the stupid zone. Right. Which is tough when everything seems like a necessary item. Yeah. When this is all. But my stuff was more like little selfish little boy stuff. Not noble dad taking care of kids stuff. That's right. What a wonderful man. I know. Wow. You're a good dad, Justin. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you hang on, and we'll hook you up with one of our coaches and see if we can walk with you through this and see if we can be of service to you. And I hope I wasn't unkind to you. I didn't mean to be. Wow.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Jade Walsh, our number one best-selling author. Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Dylan is in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Dylan. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I'm looking at switching careers, and I'm just trying to make it make sense financially because I need to go up in income, but I cannot do that where I'm currently at. But I don't know how to get somewhere better without going down first, which I can't afford to do. What are you doing now versus what you want to do? Right now, I'm a pharmacy tech.

And I wanted to transition into the trade, either like HVAC or electrician or something like that. What are you making now? I'm making about $24 an hour. So there's some overtime opportunities, and that's kind of how I'm getting by. So an apprenticeship in HVAC doesn't pay $25 an hour? Everything I've looked around, I've put in a couple applications, and they're paying $17, $18 around me right now.

You're single? No, I'm married. What's your wife make? She's working part-time as a pharmacy tech right now, so she's bringing home maybe $1,300 a month. How many kids you got? One, and hopefully one more soon. Okay. Are you saying you're hoping to add to your family, or she's pregnant?

We had a miscarriage recently. Okay. So someday. Okay. All right. I'm sorry for that. Okay. It might be coming up here. So, you know, I think the trick is how long are you at $17?

Yeah. So I looked into like the electrician union close to me and they'd be paying 16 to start. And that would be after four years, I'd get back to where I am now. Okay. Doesn't sound like a good trade. No. Well, and then after that, you know, you'd be making 38. Yeah. But it still doesn't sound like a good trade.

So I think I'm going to keep looking. I love the idea of the trades, and you probably could actually get into something where you're making what you're making now starting out if you keep poking at it. Now, it might not be a union gig. It may be something else. Union gigs are pretty well set. They're going to be what they is. What caused you to choose HVAC? Or electrician.

I love working with my hands and doing something physical. I never really intended on becoming a pharmacy tech. I just kind of ended up in it as a story. But I'd much rather be... Well, if you could find something where you're 18, 20, or even what you're making now, if you find something you're making now, it's a no-brainer. Go do it, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, but every time you take a cut, then how long is the cut going to be? It's a step back to take steps forward. How long is it? Four years doesn't work for me.

One year works for me, and you work weekends as a pharmacy tech to make up the difference. Do you have an every dollar budget?

Yeah, I got to pull up right now. Okay, so I'd play some games on that and find out what's, you know, figure out these numbers. What's the lowest amount you can live off of? What does that look like when she's pregnant? Like run a couple of different scenarios based off of your life now, what you think it could become, what happens if she gets pregnant again and there's another child and, you know, she's working part time. Run a lot of those scenarios out so you guys can get a clear picture of what's going on.

what this will be and what it can look like in all those different scenarios. But the price you pay might not be a pay cut. It might be a per hour cut, but an increase in hours. You might be working pharmacy tech and some, and you might be working your 40 hour on the new gig, 18 or 20 or 19 or whatever it is. But you make up the difference with some overtime. You keep your part time, keep the pharmacy tech job part time.

And you put in $1,300 and she puts in $1,300 and then you make the other money and you end up making more, but you're going to be working all time. And that's the price you pay to make this transition. And you have to have those non-negotiables set in stone before you start. Yeah, that's why four years doesn't work. That's what I'm saying. You have to set in stone, hey, no matter what, we're not,

when we're not using credit cards, we're not going into debt. There's no debt that's going to be part of this transition. And you guys need to agree with that on the forefront. That's why I said run those scenarios so you don't find yourself in a situation where you think that's the only option.

Yeah, you don't back yourself into a corner. Yeah, exactly. That's a good point because it'll not go well. But is it okay to sacrifice to win? 100%. Absolutely. But we have to sacrifice a reasonable amount to win an unreasonable amount. Yeah. That's what we want to do. So, yeah, if you want to move towards the trades, the trades are a good place to be right now. And the pay is really, really good, and there's a lot of demand there.

And I think I'd keep pushing around and keep checking. Again, just because the union thing doesn't work doesn't mean that there's not another way of doing this. Yeah, there's going to be some sacrifice in this at some point, and you're going to feel it deeply is my guess. My pastor used to say highly successful people tend to be highly sacrificial people. There's just a part that goes with it. Yeah. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. Yeah, that's right. Exactly. All right.

All right. Kula is with us in New York. Hey, Kula, what's up? Hi. Hello. Hi. Can we help? Yes. I'm definitely a big fan of your show. I did have a quick question. So me and my wife are expecting a baby in the next couple months. Yay! But we're trying to be wise with our money and trying to be...

just be better at our money, especially as this baby is coming. But we do have student loan and we do have around $25,000 saved up for a house. The question that I have is, should we just focus on that loan before this baby comes or start looking for housing with the baby on the way?

It's a good question. I mean, the order that I would do this, knowing that the baby is coming, I would start putting aside a lot of money, but I wouldn't pay it towards the debt or the student loans yet. I'd save it up and keep it aside until the baby gets here really nice and healthy and everything's good. Everybody's home. And then that money, I would walk the baby steps with it. Whatever you have saved plus the $25,000. Yeah, I'd knock that down to $1,000 in baby step one and then everything less left. I do baby step two, which is your debt snowball. How many student loans do you have? How much?

Just one. That's the only debt we have. How much? To kind of back, $51,000. $51,000? $51,000?

uh 61. okay yeah so i'd make that the goal for the next nine months can we save up another 25 000 or more and then when the baby comes can we virtually knock out these student loans and then after that yeah we're saving up three to six months here's what i don't want i don't want you to buy a house after this baby is born with a bunch of debt and no savings no if you have to buy an extra bedroom for sally may you did it in the wrong order

Yeah, so we do. So I did save up for the baby and the mom for the last couple months. We have around $18,000 just for the baby and the mom until the whole thing kind of clears. And we do have an emergency fund of $25,000. I want to save up enough that when the baby comes and comes home, like Jade said, we write a check, the student loan's gone, we rebuild the emergency fund.

Then we save up a down payment for the house. And that's the process that we use. Don't do not buy a house. It's wonderful having a baby coming. It's wonderful that that's your wake-up call and you're like, I got to get my crap together. Good for you. You're going to be a good dad. Now do it in the right order. Don't go buy a house with a student loan of $61,000 hanging around your neck. That's the wrong order. You're going to get yourself in a mess. Get the loans cleared. Get the emergency fund in place. And then buy the house. ♪ music playing ♪

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You know, sometimes investing, when you sit down with an investing professional, they sound like Charlie Brown's teacher. Are you old enough to remember that? Yeah, that's it. Your investing professional needs to speak in clearly discernible English so that you know what they're saying. They're there to teach you, not to impress you.

You're supposed to know and understand your investments before you do them. And if you're a complete beginner or you're looking for next level strategies, go to RamseySolutions.com slash investing or click the link in the description. It will help you with the whole process. John is in Atlanta. Hi, John. How are you? How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Yeah, so I was just looking for advice on what my next move should be. I really was considering bankruptcy. Right now I'm going through a divorce. Well, my ex-wife, she also filed for bankruptcy. She forced me into to consider bankruptcy because of a co-sign on the car that was being pushed onto me. Then I had my car that fell behind. Then on top of that, we had...

On top of that, we had also our son together, and then I lost my job. So I really don't know what my next move is. I do own a business, but it's a cleaning business. And, yeah, that's pretty much everything. But I did have my student loans forgiven, though. Wait a minute. You had your student loans forgiven? Yes, sir. Why? The school. Oh, the school was a sham.

Yeah. Yeah, okay. Does the cleaning business generate like a living income? What's it generate? Well, my expenses luckily are very low for right now. That wasn't what she asked. She asked if you're making any money. I'm making money weekly. What kind of money are you making with the cleaning business, honey?

Probably around 500 on average. It can range from 500 a week to 1,000 a week. Okay. All right, good. Can you ramp that up or do you need to get a job? Definitely I want to ramp that up. That's mainly what I want to go towards because I don't know if I want to work for anybody else anymore. Okay, so if you get this tuned way up, could you get it to a couple grand a week?

Yeah, definitely. Okay. And how long would it take you to do that? Four or five months? Six months? Well, definitely trying to figure out the blueprint to that. Is it you need more people helping you or you just need more clients? Yeah. Yeah, more clients. Both, probably. Okay. All right. Well, here's the thing. You're not bankrupt. Everything in your life got ran over by a train. Yes. You lost your job. You lost your wife. Debt is piled up on top of you.

I mean, you just got the snot beat out of you, man. You're not bankrupt. You're just bruised and battered. You've been in a car wreck, kind of. You follow me? Yes, sir. And you'd be a weird human if you weren't moving slow right now.

If you weren't sore, if you weren't scared, if you weren't paranoid looking over your shoulder. That's the way we all feel when we're in a situation like that. And so but the fix to the whole thing is to create a sustainable life that you can project out over 10 years. And then we can figure out what to do with the debts. Right.

But that means we've got to get a steady income. So either you go pick up a job and you continue to grow this business or you grow this business very quickly. Okay. Okay? In other words, if you start making $5,000 a month from some source, we have a completely different discussion than we have today. Agreed? Mm-hmm.

Agreed. Okay. Now, then let's go ahead and move forward and say, let's pretend you did that, because I think you're capable of it once you get past your broken heart and the normal things that people, the anger and everything else that we face when we've been through all these things. So you said there was a car co-sign and there was a car repossession?

Yeah, so the co-signed car was my ex-wife. She filed bankruptcy, which I was magically going to push that on to me. Wait a minute, this current divorce or the divorce before? This current. Okay, this current. Okay, all right. So how much is that debt on that car? $36,000. Okay, did that car get repoed? Yes. Good. Okay, that's perfect. And then the other car, is it repoed?

Yes. Good. And what was it? It was at $20,000. Okay, perfect. Do you have any other debts? Well, we had eviction also. You had what? An eviction. An eviction. Yeah. Have they sued you? Yeah, so they left a balance of $5,000 on top of that. Gotcha. Anything else? That's pretty much it. No other debt? Yeah.

Okay. You're not bankrupt. You're not bankrupt. You're not bankrupt. You're broke. Okay. And you have a broken heart, but you're not bankrupt and you're angry. And all of those are normal human emotions for where you are, but you're not bankrupt. This is not hopeless. And let me walk you through why. Okay. Car repossessions. They sell the car.

and the difference, let's say they sell the 36 as an example for 20 on a repo lot, all right, then they're going to come after you for the difference, which is 16. That's called the deficit balance, okay? Okay. They will settle that for a quarter on the dollar in lump sum. Well, if I may add, I think most of the added money on top of that is interest. That doesn't matter. Yeah, okay. They're going to come after you for something,

And whatever they come after you for is the deficit balance on the loan, and they will settle that for a quarter on the dollar. So the $36,000 car, probably $4,000 or $5,000 will get rid of both of these car loans, and the eviction is probably going to take $0.100 on the dollar. It's probably going to take $5,000 to get rid of it. But you could offer them three.

Okay. So in other words, let's just pretend we cleared the two cars for five each and we cleared the eviction for three. That means you have $13,000 in debt. You're not bankrupt. Okay. You just need to go make some freaking money to be able to have a little war chest, a little stack of cash when these guys do call. And you go, okay, I don't have enough to pay you in full, but I can pay you $3,000 if you'll take that as settlement in full. Okay.

Because I'm trying to not have to file bankruptcy. And they go, okay, I'll take that. Or no, but we'll take $3,500. And you go, okay, no payments, lump sum. Hear me? Yes, yes. So you stack some cash by making money, by gearing this business up, getting a job or both.

You stack some cash, and somewhere around $15,000 will make you debt-free if you negotiate settlements with all three of these situations. You are not bankrupt for $15,000, dude. Is your son with you or with his mom? So we're doing split custody, but most of the time he's with me. Okay. Because I was going to say, if not, then this is you working day and night, night and day. When he's not there, you're working.

Okay. Because you need a stack of cash to get this crap out of your life. So let's fast forward one year from today. You're 100% debt free. You have $15,000 cash in the bank as an emergency fund, and your income is $5,000 a month. And you've had a horrible year with a divorce in your rearview mirror, and you thought you were bankrupt, but you weren't, and you made it out, and you're a hero. That's where you're going. And you're a business owner. Yep. Successful. Yes. Yes. Feel better?

Way better. Okay. And you call us back if you need some help. We're here. But I've walked thousands and thousands of people through this. You are not bankrupt. Okay. You just need a stack of cash, and you know where to get that. Works what makes money happen.

Yes, sir. Go get you some and get this mess cleaned up. Put this mess in your rearview mirror and then get about the business of being a great dad and a great businessman. And we want to talk about the time that you called here 10 years later and now you're a Baby Steps millionaire. That's right. That's right. That's the time I want to talk about. And believe me, I've been doing this for 30 years. I've seen it happen many, many times. Because this is more about hope.

than it is math. And the weird thing is, sometimes the math will actually give you hope if you know how to run the numbers. This is The Ramsey Show.

Okay, you guys, remember the four walls of a budget. Food, utilities, shelter, and transportation. Right now, I want to focus on food because inflation is driving up the cost of groceries and we're all feeling it. But all these shoppers can save up to 36% on an average shopping trip, which adds up to be about $4,000 a year for a family of four. Four.

♪♪♪

Our question of the day is brought to you by YRefi. YRefi works with borrowers who have defaulted private student loans, even when other lenders have said no. With a lower payment and a low fixed rate, you could have a clear path forward. Visit YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey dot com.

Might not be in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Jackie in Massachusetts. She says, everywhere I go these days, there's a tipping screen now at the end of the purchase. For the average person who's not in Baby Step 7, when is it appropriate to leave a tip at coffee shops and restaurants versus not giving one? That's actually a really good question. I mean, I definitely feel like since COVID, since the pandemic, tipping has kind of gone into the stratosphere, I think.

I think. And there's been some tipping fatigue out there. I definitely think whenever you're in a restaurant situation where you're sitting down, you're placing an order, there's somebody attending to your table, you should always tip. And I think that you should tip between 18 to 20%. That's just me. I'm a 22% tipper. That's Jade's personal thing, but you need to at least be, I think, 18%.

at those places. Now there are, I think also anything that's really a close, close, I'm going to call it a closely felt service, right? So somebody who's cutting your hair, someone who's doing your nails or like involved in your bodily person while they're doing a service. I think that those people also should be tipped. Again, 15% is a great place to start on that. Things that I don't tip for,

Or, you know, sometimes it's like it just depends on if it's really great. Would be, I don't know, like a barista service, something like that. It's like I got my coffee. If it was really good and I know the person and it's like always the same guy or something, I might tip them a little bit. Grocery delivery. If it's raining out, always tip them. What about you, Dave? I'm just trying to think. What do you not tip for? I'm trying to think what I don't tip for. I'm a tipper, though. I...

I lean heavily into tipping. For me, tipping falls in the bucket with generosity. Yeah, I think me too. And so I overdo it to the point that my wife cringes. Well, we have it on our budget as a line item. She's like, you don't need to leave that match. It wasn't that good. Yeah.

And I'm like, yeah, well, they don't care if it's that good. And, you know, here's the thing. The kitchen might have screwed up, not the poor waitress. That's right. No, please don't take it out on the waitress. Rarely. Sometimes a waitress is an idiot, too. That happens. It does. But in my case, I don't really have a choice because they're going to have a Dave Ramsey story. It might as well be a good one. That's true. You're a known fellow. I'm a known felon. Fellow. Fellow.

That too. That too. So I have to. I have to leave a tip even when I don't want to. But I want to. I like doing that. But the times that I walk up to the counter and someone spins an iPad at me and I leave a tip is precisely zero.

I do not tip there ever. That is not a tippable. Well, if I know that person is going to be touching my food. There's a tip jar on the counter at the gas station and I just walked in to pay for my gas. No. No, I'm not tipping. You can flip that screen at me all you want. I'm not tipping. Yeah. No, you didn't do anything. And so, sorry, it's not anything. Yeah. But I over tip on everything else. Here's one where people don't tip and I think this is horrible.

A hundred percent of the time I stay in a hotel, I, I pinch a 20 and I leave it in a standing on the end of the bed when I leave every day. The maid service. Yeah. Every day the maid gets tipped. And, um,

My wife is like, well, they didn't even do turndown service. Oh, my God. Would you quit with this already? So you don't wait till the end. You do it at the end of each day. Every day. I like that. Every day. And so and you know what? I never have a problem with the room either. Yeah, that's true. Ever. And the one that drives me real crazy. I saw this happen the other day. This guy pulled up in a Mercedes. It's like $130,000 Mercedes. And he's parking a car of the valet. And it's raining heavily.

And he gives this kid $5. Stop it. I don't like that. And I'm like, no, this is just dumb. You just gave him the keys to your $130,000 car, Ferris Bueller. Man, he's going to mess with the seats. He's going to change all the stations. And you gave him $5? Are you a moron? I mean, come on. So I've tipped valets $50. You better tip.

tip the valet you know what that car sitting right there when I come out to they didn't even park it it's just sitting there they didn't even touch it and so uh that that's good I like that so that's good service goes with the good tip so yeah and I um

Listen, I used to work in food service. And when I pull up with the valets, in some cases, I almost always hit them on the front end. Yeah. And then another person brings a car back. And get them to... And so, no, sometimes I do. But sometimes I go, hey, the other guy, I hit the other guy on the front end. He goes, oh, I heard about it. Oh, okay. Yeah. They usually tip share anyway. At least they knew what was happening. So you want to do that. But that's...

a reputation thing and it's a generosity thing. But this thing of you just poured some coffee at Starbucks and you spin the thing around, face it in my, I don't buy coffee at Starbucks. Why am I saying that? But I'm saying that type of scenario, I don't care. I haven't been in a Starbucks in 15 years. So what am I saying? But, uh,

But I mean, coffee shop. If I went into a coffee shop and they pour me a cup of coffee and they hand it across the counter. Quick serve. No, thank you. I don't tip Chick-fil-A. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. No, it's not what I'm doing. I'm driving through. You're handing me the...

Jesus chicken out and I'm gone. Now I do feel like if you can't, like when you go to actual restaurants, I feel like if you can't afford to leave a nice tip, you can't go. If you can't afford a tip, you shouldn't go. You can't go. Yeah. No, that's for sure. Because those people are working for tips. They're working hard. And a lot of them aren't being paid well unless they're tipped. And have a nice demeanor towards them too. Because listen, back in the day when I worked at Applebee's, I don't want to tell you some of the things I saw back there.

No, let me tell you. When tables were acting up. Payback's hell on that. Oh, man. You don't want to know. You don't want to know what happened to your food before it came out. I never did anything. I would never do something like that. No, I don't think you would. I never would. Well, it would be against your religion to mess up food because you like food. I love food. I love people. Even if somebody's wilding out, I still would not do some of the things that I have witnessed. No.

But I'll tell you the other one. Do you know what we used to do? Because one of the things we now do by door dashes and whatever to get out of debt. That's our get out of debt side hustle. But it used to be that we all just go, hey, go deliver pizzas. And so we had a thing for a long time on this show. And we could start it again right now. This says, OK, if DoorDash or if Domino's or Marco's or Pizza Hut or whoever shows up at your door with a pizza.

And you say, how are you doing? And they say, better than I deserve. Oh, that's great. That's code for I'm working this job to get out of debt. You got to double their tip. I love that. You got to double their tip. I love that. And so because they're trying to get out of debt and you're now helping them. They're out here hustling. They're bringing you food in the rain while you're sitting on your butt. Yeah.

So double their tip. Man, and give it to them in cash. Like if I can catch the DoorDash person, like over the holidays, you know, you're ordering food and people are hanging out. I always do cash. If you can catch them at the door and give them cash. I always do cash. Yeah, I always do cash. Yeah, because if somebody's working Christmas Eve. Well, on that kind of thing. Yeah. You know, valets, that kind of stuff. Now, if I'm in a fine dining restaurant, I'm going to pay a part of the bill. Yeah, for sure. With a debit card. And they always make fun of me. Is this a debit card? Yeah. Well, is this your tip? Yeah.

So, yeah. We'll see how this works. But, yeah. Anyway, yeah, absolutely. It's a kindness. It's an exchange. But this spin the iPad around is not an exchange. Yeah. And I got zero obligations. I picked up some queso at the Mexican restaurant to go.

to take to Rachel's house for Father's Day Sunday night, and I did not tip them. They had the queso at the door. I paid them at the queso. They did not serve my table. You drove. Yeah, you drove and got it. I drove up. I walked in in the rain, got the queso, got in the truck, went to Rachel's house. Yeah. No, we don't tip that. No, I don't tip that. No. Now, if they bring it, there's one restaurant I go to where they'll bring it out to the car.

to your door and I'm like, I do tip that one because I'm like, you packed it up and you brought it out to me. I did drive. That one I'll tip. That one's up to your discretion. Yeah, you can hit in the middle there. But this thing of, it's kind of like it's manipulative. Well, you have to. The spinning of the iPad is a manipulation. Well, then they stand there and stare at you. It's the other one is, do you want to give to the

Wounded Pet Association or something. Do your change up? Add on a dollar to your groceries. No, if I wanted to give to the Wounded Pet Association, I would have already given them money. I'm not adding it to my grocery bill and you get the credit for the charity. No. So zero on those. I don't add a dollar for the Blind Cat Society or whatever the heck it is that they put on there. It's just...

They come up with some crap, man. It's unbelievable. Or Blind Dog Society. I don't care. Whichever one you want. It doesn't matter to me. But yeah, just no. We're not. No. Not even the 12-cent stick. That's not a tip, though. But it's a manipulation at checkout. It is. It's the same thing. It's still a manipulation at checkout. And it's nickel and diming you to death. And no thank you. And I don't feel guilty. Kate's in Chicago. Hi, Kate. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hello. Hey, what's up?

My question is, how do I start a business when friends and family owe me debt or owe me money? What's one got to do with another? How much money do they owe you? We've got one friend who owes us about, I want to say close to two grand. And then I've got another friend or family member that owes us $1,000.

close to four grand and it has caused us to go into debt. Why did that cause you to go into debt?

Uh, cause at first we had the money and then we didn't. And my husband and I had a conversation about it and I told him I didn't want to loan these people money and he didn't want to listen. So you don't have a friends and family problem. You have a husband problem. Yeah, that too. Yeah. Um, so what's your philosophy on, on loaning money? We know your husband's what's yours. Um,

We had made a vow to not loan anybody money after we had gotten out of debt the first time. And then when COVID hit and everybody was out of work, then all these people came to us and I didn't want to do it. And he was like, well, it's just a little bit. And I'm going, yeah, but these people won't pay us back.

So you're okay. Got it. Well, they're not going to pay you back, so you might as well forget all that, and you need to stop doing it. But what's that got to do with going into business? Over the years, God has planted a seed in my life to start a business, and I didn't understand what it was. And I've come to more realization of what he wants me to do. And the cost of...

Purchasing the land to start this business is way more. It would be a camp slash school learning center for both adults and children. You don't have a $2,000 problem. No. Okay, so these things are not related at all. No. Well, that's how you framed it. You said, I can't open a business because I keep loaning friends and family money, and that's just not a true statement.

You're not six. You don't have a $6,000 problem. You have a $300,000 problem. So let's tackle the first one first, the debt, the loaning of money. I, you and your husband need to sit down and decide. I would tell you since you called in to stop loaning people money, period. If you have the money to give, give it to him, you give it. And then there's no strings attached. And I would call both these people and just say the debt is forgiven. Yeah. Yeah.

Forget it. Correct. You're not going to get it back anyway, but no more lending. And then as far as living your dream, so if God gave you the dream, if it is God, and I'm not saying it's not, because I'm living a God dream myself right now, he will give you the money. And some instructions, like...

To build the thing. Yeah. I've been currently praying about it, and it has been to create the plan. Good. And I read your book, Building a Business That You Love. Mm-hmm. Good. And that made me realize that I need to pause on this dream and pay off my debt first. Good.

And that is the step that I'm currently working on. We've completed baby step number one. We're in baby step number two. We've got about $20,000 in debt that we need to pay off. Great. Let's get it cleared up. What's your household income today?

With my income and my husband's combined, we are at $100,000 yearly. Excellent. So let's clean up the debt, and then let's start saving towards the dream, and let's see how God provides. And I will tell you that he is not going to provide a loan. Correct. Zero times in Scripture, zero times in Scripture, did God give people something to do and then put them in debt doing it.

Never did the children of Israel get him down in the valley, and the Hittites were getting ready to kill them, and so they did a bond issue. Never. Never. It never happened. So it's not in the Bible. So you involve God in this discussion, so I'll just jump on the bandwagon with you. God will provide. God has provided at Ramsey Solutions over 35 years what we needed when we needed it, not when we wanted it.

But when we needed it and we have paid cash from the profits to grow the business little bit by little bit by little bit by little bit. And now it's a big deal. But all those 35 years of little bits.

All in cash. All added together. Prophets, P-R-O-F-I-T-S. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're talking biblical stuff. I don't want anybody to think woo-woo stuff. Isaiah was not involved. No cash from that prophet. Yeah, exactly. No one brought in a suitcase of money and said, God told us to give you this. No, didn't happen.

It was we sold more books. We sold more Financial Peace University, and we were able to pay cash for another studio. We were able to pay cash for this, and we continue to bless people, continue to serve and feed his lambs. That's right. And that is our call, and that is what we do. So, yeah, it's just, you know, I think the time – I'm not doubting the call of what he's given you to do, honey, but I am 100% sure he didn't ask you to do it today because he has not provided the money today. Yeah.

And so it's not today. That's right. And in the $2,000 or the $4,000 that's owed to you has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at all, except you got the opportunity to have us tell you just forgive it and move on and quit doing it. Oh, Drew's in Sacramento. Hey, Drew, what's up? Hi. Thanks for having me. Sure. A little short on time. Go straight to your question. So I'm wondering if I should, I'm at a place where I have no debt.

Except for my house, which I owe $260,000 on. How old are you? I'm 39. Okay. Cool. Good for you. Thank you. There's a family incentive. If I get it down to $100,000, my father will pay the rest. That's cool. And I have enough in my 401k to pay it off. Nope. I'm wondering. No. Okay. You're going to get hit with your tax rate plus a 10% penalty. You're borrowing money at 30% interest. Okay. Okay.

You're going to get killed financially to cash that money out of that 401k. What's your income? $140,000 annually. Good, good. And I'm the sole provider with four kids. Good for you. Okay.

Well, I mean, I would just, I would say we're out of debt. We have our emergency fund. We're on a budget. We need to come up with $160,000 worth of debt reduction. So dad writes the other hundred and, you know, let's start working towards that. It's not going to happen in one year. It might happen in four years and it would still be a wonderful story. That's a wonderful story. I like the idea too. That's a great incentive to...

Yeah, really, really good direction to go. I like it. So but yeah, don't don't borrow money at 30 percent interest or 40 percent interest to make that work because at one hundred and thirty thousand your tax rates, 31 percent, 32 percent. And then you get a 10 percent penalty. So it's going to be 40 percent interest.

That you're going to be the equivalent of, I mean, you're going to get hit with taxes and penalties of 40%. Dave, would I borrow money at 40% interest to pay off my house? No, you would not. And that's probably not what the dad wanted when he said, I'd give you the $100,000. Well, if he wanted that, he hasn't done good at math. But yeah. That's right. And he probably wouldn't have had $100,000 to give away. So there you go. But yeah.

Yeah, I think it's a wonderful situation you're in. You've done a really good job at 39 years old, and I would continue to plow through. And I understand the temptation, but the math tells you not to do it. Yeah. Never cash out your 401k, folks, early, except to avoid a bankruptcy or a foreclosure.

Because otherwise you're effectively borrowing money at 35% or 40% interest to pay off your debts, and that never, never, never, never, never makes sense. Wow, yeah. So stay away from that game. It's a bad game. It's one you will lose. So I want you out of debt. Jade wants you out of debt. Ramsey wants you out of debt. House and everything as fast as you can. We love that idea of freedom for you, but we don't want to trade one form of stupid for another form of stupid. Not a good trade. Good point, good point.

This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walsh, our number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Logan is in Tampa, Florida. Hey, Logan, how are you?

Hey Dave, good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, my wife and I decided in January to move into a camper. We bought a camper and decided to try to get out of debt, save some money. We actually relocated down to the Tampa area for a job. And

We're going to work the debt snowball and all that good stuff. But what we really did was just started spending more money because we had some more money with our living expenses going down. And we found out last night that she's pregnant with our second baby. So we are trying to figure out what to do now. We've got about $55,000 of debt. I make $75,000 a year.

So we're just trying to see should we sell the camper, should we sell my wife's car. What do you owe on your wife's car? I'm sorry? How much do you owe on her car? It's around $14,000. Okay. And what's your household income? $75,000 a year. Okay. I'm sorry. And that includes your wife working? She doesn't work. She stays home with our first child. Okay. What did you spend on the camper? $75,000.

So we financed it, and we owe about $15,000 to I think $16,000 on it now. So your plan was to get out of debt by going $16,000 into debt? I know. I know. Okay. It doesn't make much sense. No, it doesn't make any sense at all. All right. So what will the camper sell for? We could probably get, I would imagine, between $10,000 to $15,000 for it, I would imagine. I hope so. This has only been six months, yeah.

Okay. All right. And so, I'm sorry, you said you had 55 in debt? Yes, sir. Okay. So 16 on a camper, 14 on her car. What's the rest of it? 22,000 of it is my wife's student loans, and there's 3,000 on an old credit card. Okay. All right. So the way I answer questions here is if I woke up in your shoes knowing what I know today, what would I do? Okay? Okay.

Now, I've been married 43 years. We had three kids. I have eight grandkids. The chances that Sharon Ramsey, at any point in our life, no matter how broke or how poor we were, was going to live in a camper is pretty close to zero. So the first thing I'm going to do is put my wife and my pregnant wife and new baby into an apartment, a one-bedroom apartment, and put the kids in the living room. And I'm going to sell the camper. And that clears half your debt. And I'm going to work 80 hours a week.

And we're going to live on beans and rice and we're not going out to eat. If she's staying home with babies, she cooks and she cooks from scratch because it's cheaper and better for you. And we're not going on vacation. And you work 80 hours a week and you clean up this dadgum mess you made. And all this stuff about we're going to move into a camper, but we spent more money. All that's bullcrap. That's all done. It's time for you guys to get your crap together. You got two babies and you're broke. What's the $14,000 car worth?

Probably could get $11,000 for it. What are you driving? So she uses that in my company. I have a vehicle. If we're not together, I'm driving my company vehicle, my company truck, just back and forth to work. I got you. Okay, good. That's good news. That is good. Okay. Yeah, I think you can get it paid off, but I think you're just working all the time, and you guys just got to go, okay, it got real. A pregnancy test came back, and this just got real.

We've got to do this.

This thing where we moved to Tampa, moved into a camper. Tampa's not bad camper bad. We got to undo that. We got to get an apartment a little cheap, as cheap as you can get that's safe and your family's not getting, you know, some kind of crime ridden thing or something like that. But I mean, you get into something cheap, find a garage apartment out back of some rich old lady's house and cut her grass for half the rent or something. And you guys just start like you were starting fresh because you are starting fresh. And let's clean this mess up fast.

You can do that once you decide to do it like your life depends on it. But now your life depends on it, and the life of these two babies depends on it. Agreed? Yes, sir. Yeah. You can do this. How old are you, 26? 31. 31. Okay. Yeah. Well. So we shouldn't cause that snowball and save up for the baby. Well, I still want you to get out of the camper. Do you have any money saved anywhere whatsoever? No.

From this deal? Not really. Yeah, you got to get you got to get rid of the camper and you got to get into an apartment and for your family to have a good environment is what amounts to. And, you know, and so, yeah, you just you need to take care of this wife and kids right now. And then, yes, you can pile up cash if you want, but you need to pile up fifty five thousand dollars in the next nine months.

minus the camper, so $40,000, so that the day the baby comes home, you write a check and you're debt-free.

So the end of the story is one year from today, you're 100% debt-free with $10,000 in the bank and starting to think about saving up towards a house. And you move with the intensity as though you were paying this money off on the debt today. Absolutely. Just because you're piling it up doesn't mean that you can kind of take a smoke break. And anything she can do to add some income to this situation is a good thing. There's always something you can do. Right now. I mean...

You got a baby and a baby on the way. But still, I mean, whatever you can do that's legal and moral, let's get after it. Time to get it. Time to get it. Make it happen here. And yeah, this would, you know, what is it? Desperate times require desperate measures. Desperate times call for desperate measures. And, you know, this is kind of your backs against the wall here, man. Yeah. So you got to come out fighting.

Yeah. And you got to get with it. And that's what we're doing here. This is very doable once you look in the mirror and say, dude, you're doing it. Yeah. And she says, I'm going to get out to eat. Tough.

No, I think this is the time like for her. If I'm her, I'm getting with a buddy or a family member and saying, can you watch the kids four hours a day so I can go do this side hustle? And even if it's even if the deal is we do that until we can get out of the camper to get the, you know, the first and last month's rent, whatever that deal is, I think she can contribute as well because she needs to like this.

Yeah. But you got to get six jobs. I mean, y'all got to go create it. Stack as much cash as you can stack. Clear the camper. Get into an apartment. And then let's stack $40,000 worth of cash in the next nine months.

And clear the $16,000 camper and you're there. And this is doable. But you're not going to see your pregnant wife much. You're going to be working all the time. And you can ask Sharon Ramsey. That's what happened at our house. I worked all the time because we were broke.

And that's, you know, work is a surefire money-making scheme. It is. It is. We were B-R-O-K-E broke. It was no fun. I don't ever want to go back there. Oh, God, no. Thank you. But the good news is you can get out, Logan. This is The Ramsey Show. ♪

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the Money in Marriage Getaway over Valentine's Day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more.

This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th, and early bird prices start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets today at ramseysolutions.com slash events. So many of you out there are trying to share this Ramsey stuff with people. You want to see them win, but you're...

You don't know exactly how to unpack all this stuff you hear because you're listening to the Long Form Show. Thank you for that. We're making it even easier with the Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube. The playlist is filled with the classic Ramsey clips like what are the baby steps, how to pay off debt with the debt snowball, how to build an emergency fund, how to agree with your spouse on spending, putting together a budget, all this kind of stuff.

So the Ramsey 101 playlist, click the link at the top of the show notes to open Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube. You can text it, DM it, send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I think this might help, guys. If you're listening on the radio, share it. You've got the playlist featured at the top of our YouTube channel. Jump in there. Who's one person that you could share this with? It's one share, one step. It could change everything for that person.

And obviously, all this is completely free. Dave is in Louisville. Hi, Dave. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

I don't really know how to handle credit card collectors while I continue to fight what's turning into being a messy custody battle. So going on three years now and don't really see an end in sight. I'm not really sure what to do. Are you putting the legal fees? The legal fees are going on the credit cards. Is that what's happening? No.

No, actually, that was initially. But thankfully, my attorney's actually offered to extend credit. And she's done that for over a year now. And that's just been because she believes in the case. And so I've racked up, in addition to the credit cards, about $30,000 to my attorney and actually a little bit more to a different attorney who...

is involved in the case and is extending credit as well. So how much credit card? Part of it. It's just under $40,000. What's your income? $100,000. Okay. All right. So $70,000 plus or minus $80,000 makes you 100% debt-free? Yeah. Okay. And you make $100,000. And it's just you? Yeah.

Yeah, and then, you know, partial timeshare with the kids, but correct. Yeah, okay. All right. Have you stopped 401K? No, I haven't. You should. I still match. You should. I don't care if they match. You can't pay your bills. What kind of work do you do? Finance. Okay. Yeah. So here's...

What I would do in this situation, the credit cards are at the bottom of the list of things to worry about. I'm not worried about them today. Your credit's already trashed. You haven't paid them in some time, right?

Correct.

And so we need to start building up some cash for the next bill so it doesn't become extended credit. Because you make enough money. I mean, what's your rent? $1,200. Yeah. And you don't have a car payment? Correct. Good. Okay. Can I ask a question about the case? I'm just curious. At any point, could your financial standing have any weight on what happens with the case?

Not that I know of, no. So they couldn't look at your financial situation and say, oh, his home is unfit or something like that? No. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, if I'm you, I'm going to live on like nothing, like $15,000 or $20,000, beans and rice, rice and beans, and I'm going to work as much as I can possibly work, and I'm going to squeeze every dollar out of this budget. I'm not spending money on anything at all, and the first goal is to not add any more money

attorney debt. Second goal is pay down the attorneys and clear them. I mean, if you lived on $60,000, you would be attorney debt-free in one year. Do you do any work outside of your 40 hours job? I did that for a little while. So there was a period where I got a second job, and I was working literally seven days a week. The problem I was having is

It was affecting my relationship with my kids, which I only have part-time. And because it's a custody case, my relationship with my kids is more important than paying down the debt. And so I actually quit that second job because I was missing all of my kids' sporting needs on the weekends because I was working 20 hours on the weekends. So it was one of those where I just had to pick.

And so I'm just trying to then hold. And, you know, I don't know if we don't have a lot of vacations or not doing that stuff. But, I mean, it's $100,000. So let's pay off these attorney's fees. Okay. Yeah, I think you can live on 60. Yeah, nothing. In Louisville. Definitely.

single guy in a one-bedroom apartment man i mean definitely you need to you need to get get on in every dollar budget make all of these dollars scream and let's clear these attorney's fees and then let's not add any more debt to attorney's fees and then once we've done that then we call the credit cards up and save up some money and start settling for them lump sum but um uh

One thing about being in a situation like you're in, it is an emotional drain as well as a financial drain. And the financial stuff mounting up, mounting up, mounting up, combined with the

You just get fatigued of dealing with lawyers and judges and idiot exes and all this. There's just a fatigue factor for it. And it's harder to fight through that when the debt is mounting rather than the debt is being reduced. That's right. If you were sitting here a year from now and you've cleared all of the attorney debt and you're not adding any attorney debt, and the only thing you've got is the old credit cards, and then a year later you've got no credit cards...

you're in a different headspace to fight. That's right. That's right. I think there is a fatiguing quality to this. I'm thinking this is not the same thing at all, but I'm thinking about when we all went through the pandemic and there was a fatigue that set in and people started to ease up

on good habits, right? It's like, I deserve this. And you did less of the things that you're supposed to do. And I could see the same thing happening here where you're so tired. It's like, yeah, I'm going to let go of that other job where I'm so tired. You know what? I do deserve to go out and, you know, let off some steam, that sort of feeling when really you want to put your foot on the gas even more and stay. I'm going to find a weekend job that's Saturday night and Sunday night because there's not any kids sports on Saturday night and Sunday night. That's right.

So I'm going to find a way around this. There's workarounds. And there's only so much of this we can not do because we're a dad so that we can do the other stuff because we're a dad. Yeah, exactly. So I missed your baseball game, but you don't have to live with an abusive mother. Oh, there's a good trade. That's a great trade. I'll take that trade, you know. And so, you know, whatever, that kind of stuff. So.

My kid's upset because my dad missed my baseball game. Well, guess what? All dads miss baseball games.

And I have eight grandkids, and that means there's 17 sports on every weekend. And you know what? How many of them I make? Almost none. Yeah. And I'm not a bad grandpa. I mean, I've had this conversation many times on this show about what it really means when you say your family is the priority. And a lot of times the first thing we go to is, and the way I make them the priority is time. That's the first kind of like bullet point under priority, when really there's a lot of different ways that we show priority. And when it comes to family, a big part of that is family.

providing financially and making sure there's stability and all those other things that are just as valid of bullet points. And during any given season, we get to decide what's the number one bullet point underneath that heading of family as priority. It's not always time. Yeah, that's true. So, I mean, I don't know, but I'm going to add income and I'm going to pinch every dollar. I'm going to stop all of investing temporarily. Well, this is a temporary battle. This battle is not going to go on for 20 years. It's not. It's not.

And so we're going to fight it through. And the better financial condition you're in, the better your headspace is in. And the way you get there is sacrifice in hours and sacrifice in spending so that you've got the money to attack this and clear these debts. And that's the only thing I know how to tell you to do. And it'll work, too, by the way. ♪♪♪

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I can help you finally get ahead. You can get Breaking Free from Broke today at ramseysolutions.com slash store. That's ramseysolutions.com slash store. Brock's in Indianapolis. Hey, Brock, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, how are you? Thanks for taking my call today. I appreciate that. Sure, what's up? Let me get to it. Yeah, so my father passed away in February of this past year. I'm sorry. How old was he? Yeah.

He was 82. It wasn't unexpected. He was pretty sick overall. So with that, he didn't have a lot of investments per se, right? But what he did have is he did have a house. And so my sister and I were both trustees of the estate. And so we are now working on redoing the house, et cetera, et cetera, getting ready to sell it, right? Okay, all right. We think we're probably going to get...

So 180 grand, maybe each out of the house. Okay. And so my question is, we met with our financial counselor actually last week, funny story, met with him last week and we were talking to him about, do we take that money and put it on the house and pay off the house? Well, not all of it. We probably still owe 80,000 on the house or so, or do we go ahead and invest that 180 grand in,

and thinking about the time value of money and so forth and what we could do with it, I'm just not really – my thought on it is I want to have peace in my life. Yes. And so I don't know whether or not – because if we pay off the house, we'll hold the money. It's actually the shortest direction to have peace and the shortest direction to have wealth are the same answer, and that's pay off the house. Right. And here's how I know that. It's not just an opinion, okay? Okay.

And Jade was there. We did the largest study on millionaires ever done in North America. We studied 10,167 of them. Eighty-nine percent of them, nine out of ten, are not millionaires because of an inheritance. Okay? Nothing to do with your inheritance, but a lot of people say all wealth is passed down. No, it's not. Most people that are wealthy started from nothing and became wealthy.

Nine out of ten in America. Okay? That's the numbers, which gives everybody hope. Now, having said that, the number of millionaires that said, I started from nothing and became a millionaire by not paying off my house and instead investing the money was very close to zero. Right.

Okay. The majority of them, like 85%, 90% of them, paid off their home and all other debts as quickly as possible and then used the cash flow to invest, and that's what built their wealth. Okay. And, by the way, when the house is paid off, you also get peace. Right, right. And that's what I'm sort of shooting for. So I'm 55 years old. We haven't done a great job on our investments. We have some money invested. How much?

He was saying, well, we're right at about $140,000 or so. So we really goofed off in the beginning. So if you pay off the house for $80,000, you could put $100,000 in investments, and you could put the house payment on automatic draft out of your checking account into investments, right? Well, we could. Without the house payment, we'd have about $11,000 in margin. Good. I was going to put like $5,000 to $6,000 in investments each and every month. Good. I like that.

And then, okay. All right. So I guess my thinking was correct. And my wife's like, well, I want to use it to fix up the house and all this other stuff. And I'm like, well, we can do that after we get the house paid off. I would do that out of the cash flow. I would invest a little less and take instead of $6,000, make it $5,000 and put $1,000 in the rehab fund every month.

Okay. That's a thought. Yeah, that's good. I know she's really keen on doing stuff to the house, so I sort of have to keep that in mind, I guess. I don't think that's unfair. I mean, you're in good shape. You're going to be a multimillionaire when you're 65.

That's the plan, I hope. Well, that's the math. Have you run the numbers out? The math on what you just described will be that, okay? It's important to run those numbers out, Brock. If you've not done it, get on RamseySolutions.com and use that investing calculator and really see what this looks like for you. That'll give you a lot of the piece that you're looking for, and it'll give you a plan, and it'll help you better understand what we're telling you.

Yeah, so if you're investing $5,000 a month for 10 years and you started with 100 plus what you've already got, which is 140, so you started with a quarter million, you're easily going to be worth several million dollars in 10 years. Okay, okay. I mean, if you're putting it in good growth stock mutual funds and getting the average returns of the market, that's what you'll have. Yeah. And all of the while been fixing up the house and all of the while have a paid-for house. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, to me, I think that's just key. I really want to be under the guise of debt. And so, I mean, we're in Baby Step 6 now. We have no other debt at all. Still putting the child through school, but we're paying cash for that, basically. Good. Well, and see, when that's done, that helps the renovation on the house budget.

Oh, immensely. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, you get that one off the payroll. It opens up everything. So you're in really good shape here. But yeah, follow your instincts. You've got good instincts. Yeah, I agree. You know, there's a big, I feel like that's one of the number one temptations we get when people call in is they want to invest. I mean, we had two calls earlier. They wanted to invest over paying off the house. Instead, and the data says you're wrong. The data says that the average millionaire doesn't do that.

There you go. So buying or selling a home, by the way, is a big deal. And clickbait headlines, confusing data is out there. Right now, the median house price in America is a little over $440,000. That means half of them are more, half of them are less.

Just to give you an idea. All the houses? No, bull. That's the actual number. The average 15-year fixed rate is still under 6%. If you want to know more about housing market trends and get some free tools, go to RamseySolutions.com slash market or click the show notes on the podcast or YouTube and we'll help you out with that. Ashley's in Tulsa. Hi, Ashley. How are you?

I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, we have quite a bit of debt, so we're kind of looking at two options, kind of consolidating all of our debt or bankruptcy. So the primary debt is student loan, house, personal debt, and then medical, and then car. Okay. Okay.

You understand if you file bankruptcy, student loans are not bankruptable. And if you want to keep the house, it's not bankruptable. And if you want to keep the car, it's not bankruptable. So you're not really doing much filing bankruptcy. Okay. It's kind of useless. So how much is all these different debts? What's it all total up to, not counting your house? Not including the house? Yes. Not including the house. About $200,000. Okay. And what's your household income? $65,000. And what do you owe on the cars? $65,000.

We owe $22,000 on just one car. We actually have three vehicles and we own two. How much of it's medical debt? About $10,000. Okay. And so that's $32,000 of $200,000. What's the rest of it? Student loan debt is about $80,000, which is the majority of mine. And then personal debt and credit card debt. What's the personal debt?

Personal debt is, if I'm doing my numbers right, about $15,000. Okay, and credit cards? $7,000. Okay, you're nowhere near $200. Am I not? Oh, that's including the house. Okay, what do you owe on the house? We owe $89. What's it worth? It's worth $130. Okay, and why are you guys only making $65? Who's not working?

Well, we're actually both working. Your job sucks. Well, my husband's job actually pulls in $45,000. I pull in only $19,000 a year because I actually work full-time at his school. However, I only make like $15 an hour. But I am actually in the process of trying to find a better job. I would hope.

finishing my testing for teacher. Good. That doesn't, that doesn't, even if you make more money, it doesn't, it doesn't mean that you, just because you have more money doesn't mean, doesn't erase the problems that you currently have. Yeah, it does. You pay them off. True. True. Yeah. You went $80,000 in debt to go do something, not $15 an hour. You didn't go $80,000 in debt to do $15 an hour, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So let's get our incomes up, both of you, and get in attack mode. Get you on a budget. List these debts smallest to largest. No more eating out and vacations. You're spending money like you're in Congress around there, and y'all ain't making much. You're not working much. Y'all got to get a bunch of hours, get your income up, and start attacking this debt like you're mad at it. And that'll make it go away, kiddo. ♪♪♪

Buying and selling a home is a big deal, and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agents. They're hand-picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back when it comes to buying a home.

from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey-trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com slash agent, ramseysolutions.com slash agent. Our scripture of the day, Philippians 4.8, finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things.

Herb Kelleher that started Southwest Air said the world isn't going to shower gold coins on you just because you have a good idea. You're going to have to work like crazy to bring that idea to the attention of people. That's wonderful. Love it. Jennifer is with us in Phoenix. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

I'm fine. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? That's what I expected. I have been a forever listener, but I'm attempting to get out of the hole again. I just got over three years of aggressive breast cancer and a post-breast cancer-caused neurological disorder. Oh.

And I am seriously in medical debt. It's causing me not to be able to work full time. I did pay for long-term disability on my own. So I am getting paid by that, which is $2,500 a month. And I did move to a home that was less expensive, but I've been so sick for

for so long that, um, everything's, it's just been, it, I went through everything. I went through all my money and more. I am. And, uh, I've, I've raised three amazing children, ones in the Navy and, um, you know, and. Are you getting social security disability as well? Well, my, uh, long-term disability company, uh,

uh, demanded or actually required me to use their, their partner to help me get social security disability. Uh, but it's, I'm now being told it's going to take two years and, um, okay. So you have 2,500 a month to live on. Yeah.

Yeah. My son in the Navy is paying me $300 for a room in my house so that he can keep the address there, which is like the most amazing thing. And I do work a little bit, but I've been told I can't make more than probably $1,500 a month and be...

At some point, they're going to start following you around with cameras to make sure that you're not working. You know, so, yeah. Well, I work from home. I work from home most of the time. I know, but I mean, they're paying you $30,000 a year to not work. That's the point. So they're pretty. And I don't have insurance, Dave. I haven't had insurance since March. Okay, so how much? Why not?

Because I was on COBRA for 18 months, and then I went on to the ACA, and it was $1,500 a month because they were looking at my previous year, which was too much. So how much medical debt do you have? $50,000. Okay. All right.

And I have no car, no car. I can't drive. So I sold my car to live off of. I have cashed out two very small, uh, $5,000, uh, uh, IRAs. Okay. So where you start is food and you have enough for food. Then you go to lights and water and you have enough for that. Yes. Um, and, um,

My mortgage is $1,000 a month. Okay. And we have enough for that. I'm three months behind in that. Why? Because I had two abdominal surgeries in December, and I wasn't able to work for three months. Okay. But my point is this. You know, you've got a very tough situation. There's no question about that.

So what we have to do is we have to go all the way back to primitive basics, almost eighth grade civics class. We buy food before we buy anything. We keep the lights and water on before we do that, and we pay the house payment before we do anything else. Those three things first, food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. Basic four walls of life. And the medical bills simply are not going to get paid right now.

Right. And that's and I'm not paying credit. I only have like seven grand in credit cards. You can't pay them. You can't pay them either. Can't pay them either. Right. Not right now. Not right now. Right. Because this but everything's temporary. It's either going to get worse or it's going to get better. Well, this is the question is, do I just abandon it all because it's going to take so long that there's no way. It's not going to take so long because we're not going to be exactly here five years from now.

This situation is not going to be the definition of your life for the next decade. It's the definition of your life for the next five months, but it's not for the next decade. How is it going to not be for the next five months? I'm going to make the assumption that some healing is going to occur. Well, this is the question. I don't have medical insurance. I understand.

So I haven't had my third year oncology appointment. I haven't had the critical appointments that will allow me to take the medication that I need. And the state is obviously taking forever because they're not getting answers. And...

And I don't know what to do anymore. Can I ask a question? Those appointments, are you not going because you're just not able or because you're afraid of the bills that will come because of it? Correct. What does the appointment take to go and see that one doctor for that one appointment you're talking about?

Well, for my critical appointments, it'll be probably a grand. Okay. I'd go get your care. Go prolong your life. You have the money to do that and eat and pay the house payment. But you don't have the money to do anything else. Right. So you can scrape out the very basic appointments. You can't do a $10,000 one. You don't have that unless they want to do it as a...

pro bono thing and as an act of kindness and you can ask for that I certainly would but as far as I say I think what's happening is is the there's two the well I you're a human and so with all the hell you've been through it's very easy to lose your a portion of your perspective and so what I'm trying to do is block this out and set things to the side so that I can see clearly and

Yes. And so I'm saying I'm not worried about the $50,000 in debt. I'm not worried about the credit card debt today. We'll get around to that. We'll either bankrupt it, never pay it, or we'll get around to paying it when you're healed and making good money and your life is back to some semblance of normal again. That's going to be a little while apparently.

It's probably not 20 minutes from now, but it's also not 20 years from now. So something's going to happen and things are going to move in one direction or another, a devastating direction or a much better direction. And so and in either case, the medical bills will be dealt with. So I'm.

I'm not worried about those, but I do want you to go get the basic $1,000 item, a $500 item, $1,000 house payment, and food and lights and water. And other than that, I'm not paying anything. Right. You don't have the money. Well, you know, when people call... Then just tell them I don't have any money.

That's what I've been saying. I'm on death's bed. I'm a cancer survivor barely. And right now I don't have a single dime because I don't have any money. I will call you back when I have some money and hang up. There's no sense having a conversation with them. They're what's called a bill collector. Right. And all of that is getting, you know, somebody in a cubicle 500 miles away is interfering with the forced ranking of priorities here.

Right. And that's what I'm trying to force upon you is food. Right. Lights and water. House. I had a hard time with doing that. I keep going to... Well, you're a person of honor. You would like to pay your bills. And that's a good thing. You're a person of integrity. But it's literally survival mode. But today...

The best way for you to pay your bills is to not pay your bills. Yeah, you got to live. You got to live first so that you can pay your bills. That's it. Yeah. I'm sorry, kiddo. Man, what a mess. I'm so sorry. Wow. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Hey, you guys, I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsey Show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey 101 YouTube playlist. And if you're new to the Ramsey Show,

a quick start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsey Plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So here's what's inside. What the baby steps are and why they actually work, how the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast, and how to build wealth and invest for the future, and so much more.

So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube playlist. Copy it. Text it. Send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I thought this might help. Because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One share. One playlist.

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