Small Changes Now Mean Big Wins Later
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and make a difference.

Create actual, amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, Ph.D. in Counseling, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, and a couple other things he does around here. He's my co-host today. So we're going to talk about you right in front of you, baby. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Boise, Idaho is up, and that's Brittany. Is it Brittany? Is that right? Yes, sir. Hi, Brittany. How can we help?

Hi there, Dave. I was calling for some advice on how to handle a very financially abusive relationship regarding my mother and father. Talk me through it.

Okay. The basics are my parents are still together and I'm in my 30s. It wouldn't be a big deal for me if it was just my mom and dad. But the problem lies with my parents raising the next generation. They actually raised my sister's twin daughters who are now 10. And I'm terrified that it's going to ruin their upbringing like it kind of did mine. What's going on? What are they doing?

Um, my mother is financially reckless. I mean, for years, I mean, she did prison time for stealing from her employer when I was 16. Um, once she got out, she took out false loans in my name, my father's name, um, false grants through the state. And she's just been financially reckless on credit cards in her name and my dad's name. And it's just left them in financial ruin. Um,

Wow. She's not only reckless, I mean, she's like a criminal. She's a toxic human being, yeah. Wow. So what does your dad do? And the problem, well, once he finds out about certain things, he does have a verbal confrontation with her, but he rolls over and pees on himself, basically, and he won't stand up to her. And I think his spirit is just so beat that he won't stand up for himself at all.

And I'm just left here as the auntie who's trying to make sure that her nieces don't go through the same situation that I went through as a child. So you experienced all of these things as a child because she was doing the exact same behavior and he was doing the same behavior. You talked about that twice. How do you think it affected you? Because you sound pretty adjusted to me. No, well, thank you. I'm not saying it didn't hurt. I'm not saying I wasn't a problem. Lots of therapy there, you know. Was it lots of therapy? Is that what did it?

Uh, therapy helped a lot removing myself from the toxic situation. My mom kicked me out when I was 17, um, right after she got out of prison because there was a fight between us on, you know, the vehicle situation after she got out. So I, you know, I had to grow up real fast. I raised my younger sister for the last four years of her life. How does somebody with a criminal record get custody over two seven-year-olds?

Because it was over 10 years after the fact. So after 10 years, their felony is erased or expunged from their record after seven, I believe. Okay. So, and they were in the system. So they went through the process to do parenting classes and become foster parents and they got custody of the younger two. So whenever I hear a conversation like this, I always want to ask the, what feels like an obvious question, but it's only obvious when you're looking from the outside. It's really hard to see on the inside.

What of this can you do anything about? And the way you've outlined it, you can't do anything about your mom's behavior. She's been who she's been forever. You can't do anything about your dad's behavior. He's been who he is forever. The state has awarded these children. Right. So what can you actually control here? I guess you could sue for custody if you want to take the two girls. Or you can have this big... I could do that. This big...

I call it like a William Wallace type speech to your dad, and maybe you'll get through to him, which I can tell you right now you won't. No, I've already done that. There he goes, right? So what are you looking for? Like what are you hoping happens? Maybe some advice on how to proceed, because I know my mom's a lost cause for me, given our history. Your dad is too. We don't talk, we're not on speaking terms. Your dad is too. That's, I guess, the tough pill. It is. Behavior is a language, and he's told you for the last 20 years he's not interested in your advice or wisdom.

And that's really hard to hear on you. I'm saying it kind of callously and direct, but he doesn't care what you have to say. No, he doesn't. It never affects his

his actions and I've convinced him two or three times to leave her and he's always on board and he, you know, I have a big house with a basement that him and the girls can move in with me because I have a 10 year old too. I mean, I have four kids and we have plenty of space for them and I'm like, dad, just get away. Just get away. Every time you do this, this just damages you. It damages your soul. It damages your spirit. It's affecting those girls and you're teaching them and conditioning them to

that this is okay behavior, and it's not. And it took me years to figure that out myself. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know if I should just wash my dad off and be like, Daddy, I love you. You're my favorite person in the whole world, but I cannot support you on this topic. I don't know that you wash him. I don't know that you wash him. I don't know that you wash your hands of him. He's still your dad. He is. He's my favorite human being in the entire world. You might quit trying to fix him. Yeah, you live in reality.

Yeah, so I guess that's what I was asking for is just maybe a secondary opinion on looking at this from the outside and telling me I'm doing everything I can the right way and there's no fixing them because they don't want to be fixed. Exactly. There you go. And that's really tough. One of the hardest things in adulthood is that other adults are allowed to misbehave and you can't make them not. If they call here, I can hang up on them and move on to the next one. But I can't make them go on and do it, right? Right.

um yeah exactly i wish they would because i know what would happen if they did change and and i know that this can be fixed i know that you know the power of god in their life for instance could intersect either your mom dad or both and you know in a matter of months i've seen people change their whole households um and then they seek out the therapy to finish the work and they do all the stuff they need to do but um none you know

My grandmother used to say those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still. And so that you're just, you know, you're just barking at a brick wall is what you're telling us. I mean, so I think you pray for him. And I think if you ever think of someone that might speak into their life that they might listen to because it's not you that you send that person over there. If there's an uncle or a cousin or someone that they admire or a pastor that they say they like.

Have them speak into it because maybe they have a foothold. Maybe they have a toehold of credibility. And you might write your father a letter and just call it my last letter, right? And I'm still going to love you. I just need you to see in writing you always have an open door at my house. Yeah. And maybe when you start talking and start lecturing him, he shuts you off like he shuts off his wife. That's just his default setting. But maybe –

um are on the glow of uh you know the refrigerator at 11 o'clock at night when all the other lights are off in the house he reads that letter and he exhales and says i'm gonna go i wish that would happen i know i know and have you have you are you married reach out to i am married i'm happily married so have you and your husband talked about taking in the two girls is that a possibility

Okay, but what about right now?

Right now, no. They're in school. No, would you take them if they would let you? Oh, absolutely. 100%. Okay, make that offer in the letter then. There you go. Yeah, maybe make that offer and say we would love to let them grow up around their cousins and take that burden from you guys. Yeah, you guys deserve to be free in your retirement years. There you go. And, you know, that'd be an interesting thing to see happen. But, yeah, I think you're right. You just got to lay it out there.

It's heartbreaking, man. It's heartbreaking, heartbreaking. We don't do grief well in this culture. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.

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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, Ph.D. in Counseling, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. New Hampshire is on the line. Garrett's calling. Hi, Garrett. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help?

Uh, I've racked up about $156,000 in business debt and I've kind of been contemplating bankruptcy and I didn't know if maybe you thought I should or maybe had other advice or options. Wow. I'm sorry. It's scary, isn't it? Yeah. Are you married? No. Okay. How old are you? 25. Okay. Okay.

And what do you owe the business debt on? What kind of debt is this? Credit cards or vendors? So about 30,500 is vendors. $55,000 is I was dumb and took out a merchant cash advance. And then I owe my parents like $65,000 in

Okay. And then another vendor, $7,250. $7,250. Yes, sir. Okay. All right. And what kind of business is this or was it? I sell cabinets and countertops. Okay. All right. And so a merchant advance on what? Yes. So my future revenue is...

Basically, I gave them my bank statements, and then they said, we'll give you this much. And it was like a daily payment. And last year in 2024, I had a very slow time, and it pretty much just took me for everything I had. Yeah, that one got you. It was a payday lender of your world, yeah. Because the interest rate's also ridiculous, correct? Yes. Okay. And...

So what method do they have access to your current checking account? Is that how they, they clean you out ever so often? Um, they were, I've since put, um, like stop payments on them. And I'm actually, I was working with like a, or am technically still working with a consolidation agency, uh,

But that cost is like $1,200 a week, which I can kind of do, but it's hard to manage that. And every time I miss a payment, they're threatening to cancel the program, and it's nonrefundable, and it's still another $28,000 I have to pay into it before they'll negotiate with them. Yeah, I think you stopped that immediately, too. You jumped from the frying pan into the fire, didn't you?

Yeah, I panicked, and I did all that before I'd kind of talked to anyone about it. Now, pretty much my whole family knows, and I've been a little more open lately, so I've been getting, like, some more advice. Yeah, okay, so if you didn't have this mess, did you do all this because you weren't making money?

No, I was doing pretty well, and then I took a pretty sizable loss on a job, and I also got a little full of myself after like a really good four-month stretch. Mm-hmm.

And I fell behind on my bookkeeping, which looking back, that was kind of a debt. That was like my detriment to it all. You did a really good job in two sentences describing what happened because that's exactly what happened. I can smell it. You're really on top of that. That's very well done. You weren't doing your books. One job, you got out too far over your skis on, and they set you up for a fall, and you were feeling invincible.

Those three things together put you here. I believe you. That's well done. Congratulations. Most people aren't that self-aware when they're in this much pain. Well done. Proud of you. We work with entrepreneurs and have for years. I've been bankrupt when I was your age, so I know exactly how it feels to be where you are. So the way we fix this is we take the things that are working and we apply them in a forced rank system.

Order of importance. Bankruptcy is not going to solve it because you can't bankrupt mom and dad. You can legally, but you're not going to. You're going to pay them. No. So half of this almost is one thing, and it's them. Okay? Yes. So.

The rest of it is $90,000 worth of stuff. How quick can we make that? Now, let's pretend that you were just operating properly. You weren't out over your skis. You weren't taking jobs that could take you down. You weren't feeling over your feeling and you weren't borrowing any money. What can you make in this business? What kind of profit in a year can you make if you just started fresh?

Um, so last year I did about $400,000 of, uh, revenue. Right. And I have a, my margins are right around, uh, 31%. Okay. So you can make a hundred, you can make a hundred grand a year and you have a $90,000 problem. Yes. Cause mom and dad, mom and dad aren't pressuring you. No, but you want to pay them, but they're, they can be, they can be at the end of the list and that's okay.

Yes. Okay. So now here's an idea. Nice as well. What vendors do you have to pay to keep supplies coming to keep the business open? What dollar amount does that represent? Pretty much the... $37,000? Mm-hmm.

Not entirely. Yeah, I didn't think so. Half of that. Yeah. About 20. Gotcha. Okay. So you need to get on the phone with them first, and we need to get on a program with them where we're going to clear them first. And in return, they're going to keep sending you supplies COD.

Yeah, I have been. I've been paying them. It was a large amount. Now, listen, I'm giving you a program. I'm not asking for the story now. I'm telling you what to do, okay? Okay. Get on the phone with them and set up a program to pay $37,500 plus your new material needs going forward out of your $100,000. It's the first thing you do. The merchant people tell them they're not getting paid maybe ever, but they're certainly not getting paid right now.

you're going to sit on the sidelines and we're going to settle up later. If you want to sue me, sue me. But I don't have any money. And if you sue me, I'm going to file bankruptcy and you're going to get nothing. So you need to just sit over there until I can get this thing cleaned up and then I'm going to come pay you off. Okay? You have a conversation with them, but you give them no more money and no more access to your business. You're going to make $100 a year, $120 a year. You clean up your vendors first, and then you keep the cash flow running. You keep your books up to date.

And then you save up $30,000 and you call the merchant people that you owe $55,000 to and you settle with them for pennies on the dollar. Then you go pay mom and dad the next year. Right. You're out of debt. I just got you out of debt in three years. Sounds good to me. It's doable. What I just described is very doable. I've done it a thousand times. Now, the trick is you've got to believe it and you've got to be tough enough to run off these people that have been scaring the crap out of you. They've been running your life emotionally. They live in your head rent-free. Yeah.

Can you tell I've been there? Yes. Yes, for sure. It's no fun. And you feel like, you know, they're saying you're not a good guy and you're a good guy that made a mistake. You're not an evil person. You didn't set up a business to go screw somebody. Right. You're just a young guy that made some mistakes and now you got to go clean up your mistakes. You can file bankruptcy if you want, dude, but you still going to have to pay your parents and you did all of it over 90 grand that I just settled for somewhere around 50. Yeah.

And you shouldn't file bankruptcy when you have the ability to make $120,000 a year. Not morally, but I mean mechanically you shouldn't file bankruptcy when you've got the ability to make $120,000 a year and $50,000 cleans up your mess. Because you're going to pay the $37,000 worth of vendors because you've got to keep them in your life. The other people you're going to settle for $0.50 on the dollar. And then you're going to call mom and dad and pay them as quick as you can. And never borrow money again from anyone. Not even your parents.

Have you learned your lesson? Yes. Yeah. You can do this, Garrett. You can really do this. I promise you can. Isn't that cool? Yeah. It's the master class.

When we get scared, man, we go to fight or flight, we stop thinking. And sometimes it just takes someone to sit down and say, hey, here's a plan. Here's the forest. Here's the trees. Yeah. Don't burn everything down. I'm lost in the woods. We don't have to burn the forest. Yeah, that's exactly right. Just got to cut that two trees over there and then we can get out. But you got to keep walking. Yeah. Just keep moving, keep moving, keep moving. And the good news about this guy is he's really smart because he quickly self-analyzed. Very unusual. Very unusual. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Jumping in on the microphone to join us for a segment, my friend Jefferson Fisher and John's longtime friend, Jefferson Fisher. He's a trial lawyer, writer, speaker. His work's dedicated to helping people communicate during life's everyday arguments and conversations. If you've ever seen him on Instagram, on Facebook, his stuff is absolutely brilliant, this stuff on communication. The new book is The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More. He's one of the speakers at the upcoming Entree Leadership Master Series, and he's

that will be in, it's not Master Leadership Summit, it's in May, in Denver, May 18th through 21. He'll be hanging out with us there. We're excited to have him be exposed to all those entrepreneurs. There'll be about 3,000 of them there. And so welcome. Good to have you, my friend. Thank you very much. I'm honored to be here. And of course, I learned everything from Dr. Deloney. Continue. You can continue. I told him earlier on, Dave, when...

Me and my faculty friends at the law school there would talk. We would all know, hey, we all need to be nice to Jefferson because we're probably going to be working for him someday. So we all knew that. Jefferson's been brilliant. Yeah.

So the short version of the story is you were at the university where he was in law school. Correct, yes. He was already a student when I showed up, so I can't claim him. He was my last year there. That's right. Your first year. That's right. In an indirect way, he's a former student. I claim that. Exactly. Okay. All right. Very cool. So how did you get, I guess, trial lawyer? You get drug into the idea of argue less, talk more. How do we have a conversation? How do we...

and uncontrollable situation. How do you intersect these things and reset the conversation? I guess that's what drug you into it. Yeah. Studying to be a trial lawyer. Well, it's really just truly a gift that my parents have prayed for. They've always prayed for wisdom and discernment over my life. And I learned to communicate well at an early age. So my mom can tell you I probably spoke too much. But being a trial lawyer certainly honed that skill of just dealing with conflict. Yeah.

Okay. So there's a lot of conflict out there right now. There really is. A lot of division, a lot of anger. I mentioned your stuff on social media. Anytime you put something there, you get trolled. Anytime you stick your head up and your site's massive, your footprint's huge on this. So you got people coming at you all the time. But in a society where people don't know how to communicate, how are you navigating that in teaching?

I teach that arguments are not something to win. You never want to win an argument because you start to lose the relationship. Instead, you want to see arguments as something to unravel. Find the knot in the conversation and start to unravel it rather than tugging your way and me tugging mine. And so when you go into the conversation with something to learn rather than something to prove, you're going to walk away with a much better communication.

All right, I'm going to use that tonight when I get home. Yes, exactly, exactly. I'm not going to try to win the argument. Well, and Jefferson –

I think that's important because we often are looking for feelings, right? We're looking for some sort of emotion to let this relationship know it still has got spark to it, right? Right. And so we end up fighting and fighting and fighting instead of asking the harder question. And you taught me this. Yeah. Like, what do we both want with this conversation? Yeah, absolutely. And at the same time, we are trying to repress

replace connection with transaction. Like you're meant to feel the warmth of a smile, not read it in an emoji. And so too often we replace one for the other when all you have to do is just pick up the phone. And most people don't want to do that nowadays. Why not?

I think it's much easier to stay safe and not feel like you can be direct or aggressive or say what you need to say. You'd much rather kind of stand in the back. But if you really want to level up your life, you have to practice the skill of disappointing people. You have to practice the skill of being direct and saying what you need to say. You can still be kind. You can still show grace. But at the same time, to avoid clarity is to create confusion. Mm-hmm.

We say around here to be with our team, being unclear with a team is to be unkind. Yes. Because in the name of being southern and nice, we're passive aggressive and we don't deal with it. And bless his heart. Yeah. Bless his heart. Yeah. Hey, I want to give you a wild – this is just a story that's come into my mind. Let's pretend you're a mid-level professional –

and you have a very opinionated, outspoken CEO that runs your company. Who would that be? I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. Again, this is total, I'm just making this up on the fly here. What are some tips you could give a guy like me on how to honor and respect the person that I work for, but also challenge?

Well, you always make sure that you say what you need to say right up front. People believe that confidence is something that you need to say everything all at once. Confidence is very quiet. Insecurities are very loud. And so when you're always just holding...

holding it in or feeling like you know better and you only wish I could only just say people that are in positions of power or positions of superiority they will appreciate the more transparent honest conversation every time rather than you trying to be a wallflower and just be a yes man every time so you you have to be able to get out front of it and say what you need to say put it up put it out there yeah every every time or else you're really doing yourself a disservice yeah and I I

I've noticed when we're teaching people leading financial peace university classes, for instance, that to hold someone accountable to a behavior that you're trying to get them to do it for themselves, for their own benefit, I always tell them you have to have your arm around their shoulder before you can smack them in the back of the head. I mean, there has to be a relationship before you can hold someone accountable. Yes. Yeah. I think that when you come at it from a position of making them feel good and close to you, but

Also being very firm. My dad would say this. I would come with him with something that I didn't like and I needed to vent. He'd say, well, that's fine. You don't have to like it, but you need to understand it. And it was this idea of you can connect with somebody and still be mad at them. I can still love you and still be upset. And so he would always say, well, you don't have to. That's fine. You don't have to like it. You just need to understand it.

And that allowed me, I mean, I didn't like it when I was young. I didn't feel that great. But now I'm seeing the wisdom in it, that he was allowing me the time to connect with him and truly be on the same page. At the same time, say, well, then's the breaks. This is what it's going to be. You don't have to like it. It's fine. We're doing it. Yeah. You don't have to like it. But you need to see why we're doing it. Exactly. And that made the difference. Yeah. If you get the why, then it helps. I'll go back to what you were talking about when you first, when we first turned on the microphone, you said argument is a not to be unraveled. Mm-hmm.

And I think the first time as a hard-driving person I ever realized that the best negotiation was

is a win-win. And so trying to find out what the other side needs to win, and there's a similarity to that, I think, the win-win negotiating versus win-lose negotiating to what you're talking about. Yeah, I like to teach that when you set out to win an argument, you begin to lose the relationship. So if you and I were in an argument, and I, as intelligent people do, we like to send that zinger, that thing that's really going to make the point hit home and zing and hurt them

Congrats. What have you done? You still have to live with this person. You probably still have to work with this person. You've now just won to be first up to apologize, most likely. I mean, you've now just had the... You've earned that awkward silence when you still have to pass them in the hallway. When you set out to win an argument, you only win contempt. You have to see things as...

something to learn rather than something to prove. Rather than pushing my point, I want to learn more about why you believe what you believe. If I have my glass full and you have your pitcher full, I've got to let you pour it all out before I can ever pour anything of what I have into you. And so it's being curious before you start just pushing my way, my way, the highway. That also means that if I'm sitting with somebody who we are just not going to come together, I have to be confident enough

to push my chair back and head out. Or I've got to be confident enough to say what I need to say and then go on about my day and not hope that I can still outsource my self-worth to you, right? You got it. I mean, and that's why in the book I set up this framework of how I teach communication is that when you say things, you're going to say it first with control, and you're going to say it with confidence, and you're going to say it to connect. And when you really have those three main pillars connected,

communication. It's going to set you up much better for success. I like to say that most people don't know what they're saying until they're already talking. And so what this book allows them to do is have a GPS and point you north. I love it, man. The new book is The Next Conversation. Argue less, talk more. You can follow him on Twitter

Jefferson Fisher on Instagram and you should. You'll be entertained and educated simultaneously. Good to have you, my friend. Thank you for having me. Welcome to Ramsey. Look forward to having you at Summit. Thank you.

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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thanks for hanging out with us. If you're a business owner or you know someone who is, you know that running a business is hard. We've got a new book that we launched the pre-sale on this week called Build a Business You Love, Mastering the Five Stages of Business. It's out right now for $29.99. You can get over $350 worth of free bonus items if you buy it.

I haven't done a book in four or five years now. So this is my latest. It might be my last. I don't know. You never know. So if you want to share what we've learned over the last 30 years, come and check it out. We're going to show you what we've learned working with 10,000 small businesses and growing Ramsey from a card table in my living room to where it is today.

RamseySolutions.com slash store, or if you're on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. Our question of the day is brought to you by YRefi. If you're struggling with defaulted private student loans, YRefi offers a great solution to get you back on track.

For a low fixed rate and more flexibility, go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Madison in Ohio. My husband and I have been happily married for six years.

The only place where we struggle a bit, I love that, a bit, is on our finances. My heart is with my babies and raising them while his is focused on money.

I'd rather him tell me what our monthly budget is so I can just follow it, but he wants me to be on his level of monetary ambition. We have no debt, save roughly $1,000 a month, and we have $25,000 in savings. If I'm not negatively impacting his goals, then why is it bad that money doesn't excite me like it does him? I feel like finances is his thing and raising our family is mine. I'll support anything he wants, but I don't want to lose myself in his ambition."

I think they've got more than a bit of a struggle here. Yeah. Yeah, this is a bigger challenge going on, man. Yeah. Okay, it's the Ramsey Show, so I'm just going to say what I think. Yeah. I'm calling BS. I am too.

Okay. I think this is a bunch of crap. I think she just wants to be taken care of and buy anything she wants anytime, and he said no. This feels like, in counseling they call it the one down position. It's like when somebody's mom goes, oh, I'm going to go to the doctor.

That's okay. I don't want to eat there, but I'll just eat the napkins in the glove box. I'll be fine. That's that. We're not going to buy me a dress. I'll just use the drapes. Right. I don't want to get my fingers dirty, my hands dirty with the money stuff. The money stuff. I'm the mom. Right, right, right. Oh, brother. You're killing me here. Okay. Now, there is some truth to this, and there's a bunch of bull to it, too, but the truth is

that, um, you're, you're the free spirit. You're not concerned about spreadsheets and that's fine. He's the nerd and he's all into the details and that's fine. You can function in your strengths, but to what you've done here is you spent the entire email making him the evil bad guy. That's all money hungry. And you're the sweet person that loves little children.

And bull crap. Yeah, if you want to take care of your kids, you've got to have money to take care of your kids. Your kids like food and dry diapers and college degrees and whatever. So you've got to do both. So being a grown-up mom involves being an adult woman that is raising children, involves having enough say and enough involvement in the budget and in where our money is going that I get a vote and I'm in agreement with

And we're aligned on where we're going. That does not make you money hungry. And the fact that he has a gift with detail doesn't make him money hungry and doesn't mean he hates children. And actually, I guess where I can feel my heart rate getting up a little bit, getting a little frustrated is the number of calls I get from wives saying, I wish my husband would just include me.

And I have somebody here. And now he's not, he's, he's speaking spreadsheet, which if he was here, I'd bonk him on the head and say, bro, lead with your heart first and do spreadsheet second. But this is somebody that sounds like they're trying to connect and trying to bring mom in, bring his wife in on the finances and the money. And here's where we're headed. Here's what we're going to buy. And she's kind of beaten him up for it. And I, I kind of, I mean,

So based on this little paragraph here, I honor the fact that he's trying to connect with you, even though you keep saying, I don't want anything to do with the money part. I just want to do the mom part. Yeah. I don't want anything to do with evil money. I just want to be the sweet mom. And that just that really drips off of here. And it's insincere.

You want something to do with evil money if the rent isn't being paid. If the light gets cut off and the water gets cut off, believe me, my wife was there when she had little babies, and she was concerned about that. So anyway, so I would say – Can we get to the root of this? I don't like him. He annoys me. I don't like having conversations with my husband. Let's get to the truth here, or –

I'm really kind of spoiled and I don't like to deal with some of this stuff. We need to get to the root of these things because this is the way some people just operate in the world. And it ends up in ash. Yeah. It ends up. And then he's going to get painted as the bad guy. Yeah. He already is. And he didn't know his wife didn't like him. I don't like you. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

So he could take the thing. We could give him some help. The help we would give him is, like you said, lead with your heart. And what does that mean in a non-cheesy way? What I believe is I believe you have something to add to this conversation, honey. And so your vote counts.

I want your vote in this. It doesn't mean you're overwhelmed with money. It doesn't mean I'm overwhelmed with money. But we're two adults trying to make our way through this world, and it involves money. Or the dreams you talk about, these babies that you just want to be yours, you've said, I want them to drive this kind of car, go to this kind of college. Well, that takes us planning right now for that to happen down the road. Let's talk about what we're not going to do so that we can do. That's right. Let's dream about it together. Let's make that decision together. You're way too smart to be a kept woman. Right.

And he needs to lead with that rather than, we're going to save $1,000 a month and here's a spreadsheet. That's right. Which he probably is doing a little better. Of course he is. Yeah. And the other side of it is, hey, these are my kids too.

I want to be a dad. Yeah. You don't get to like, just do the kids and I do the mat. Like I want to, I want to be involved with the kids. And if he's not Madison, then sit down and say, your kids need a dad more than they need a spreadsheet right now. They need you to talk to him, hang out with them, go do whatever dad's, you know, dad's doing this house. But, um, so ultimately this first line, we're having been happily married. I think things are not as great as they seem. Let's be honest with each other and go from there. Yeah. Yeah. We're married. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes it's happy. All right, Cale is in Edmonton, Canada. Hi, Cale. How are you? Hey, good, Dave. How are you doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? It's an absolute pleasure to even speak to you, to be honest. I'm shaking a bit. I'm calling in lots. Biggest thing for me, love the book, Red Baby Steps. I have a small business, and I'm really torn between personal debt

business savings and what to do. There's no perfect plot for everybody. I'm worried about retirement. I've got a young, small family. In the business, you need to set aside a percentage to grow your retained earnings in the business, a percentage of your profit each month.

Yes. Okay.

The business said, okay, this much is going to retain earnings, and I've got to set aside $10,000 over the next 12 months to buy this piece of equipment. I'm making up something there, but I'm saying that's $800 a month. So I've got to set aside $800 a month to buy a piece of equipment, and that's $10,000 in 12 months. And then everything else is coming home, and I'm going to work on the budget with it. Everything else is coming home, and we're going to attack the debt with it. So there is a perfect plan. It's just a detailed system.

And then if you're not saving for a piece of equipment, that's $800 more you're bringing home. Would you pay yourself a quote-unquote higher salary if you have personal debt and a small business that's kind of crushing right now?

It's not a salary. I mean, I just take everything home that the business didn't need. That's what I mean. All of it. Okay. I just bring all of it home, whether it's salary, whether it's bonuses, whatever you want to call it. Whatever it is. I'm taking everything out of the business other than what I'm setting aside for retained earnings and other than what I'm setting aside for this marketing program or this piece of equipment. And that's line item in the budget of the business. But then the profit above below that all comes home.

Yeah, it's not a vague thing. When you make it a vague thing is when it feels like, oh, my thing's different. Your thing's not different. Write it down. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey guys, I'm Jade Warshaw and I want to talk to you for a quick second about student loan refinancing. If your payment and your interest rate are burying you and you feel like you can't dig out, refinancing your student loan debt might make sense. That's because a lower rate could free up more money in your budget and a shorter term could help you pay down your debt faster. So reach out to the student loan refinancing experts today at laurelroad.com slash ramsey.

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Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. This is a Baby Steps Millionaires Theme Hour.

If you've never been with us when we did one of these, Dr. John Deloney and I are going to take calls from real millionaires, regardless of how they became a millionaire. Because I have found millionaires all over America for the past 30 years, and I found a whole bunch of them in the last decade that I helped create, showing people what to do. And they went and did the stuff we teach. That would be the baby steps. So whether you followed the baby steps,

Whether you won the lottery or whether you got an inheritance, however you became a millionaire, we want to hear your story. But that's all we're going to talk to today is real millionaires, not people on Instagram with an opinion. Because my pastor used to say, a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion. So we're going to really talk to real millionaires. Now, let's help you with that. What is a millionaire? Because some people are confused about this. It is not a million-dollar-a-year income. It's a million-dollar net worth.

When people say net worth millionaire, that's redundant. That's like saying, you know, black, black, white, white, whatever. I mean, it's redundant. All millionaires are net worth millionaires. It's the only type of millionaire there is. It's an accounting function. What you own, your assets, minus what you owe, your liabilities, is your net worth. Your house is included. Anything you own that is of value is included.

Now, some of it are higher quality items than others in terms of financial instruments. Doesn't matter. You don't have to be a cash millionaire. You don't have to be a real estate millionaire. Just what you own minus what you owe when that equals $1 million, you are by definition a millionaire. Well, it's not enough. It's not. I'm not asking that question. We're just asking, do you have a net worth of $1 million? Well, no one should have that. Well, that's a different discussion. Well, you can't make it on that. That's a different discussion.

That doesn't, you know, these don't convolute this. This is simple. Do you have a million dollar net worth? If you do, you're one of about 26 million Americans. And the rest of them are saying, I'd like to build a level of wealth heading in that direction so that I can be stable, sustainable, have a great life, change my family tree and so on. Is that rich anymore? Well, in 1920, it was rich. In 2020, 2025, it's not that rich, but it's richer than most people. So shut up.

They got there. So we're going to talk to real millionaires today and ask them how they did it so that you, if you're not one, can learn something from the ones that actually did it, and you can head that direction. Nicole and Dan are in Stamford, Connecticut. And hey, guys, what's your net worth? Hey, Dave. We have a net worth of about $6.3 million. Good for you. Break that down a little bit by category. How much in real estate and retirement and so on?

Sure. So we have about a hundred thousand dollars in cash, which includes our emergency fund. We have retirement funds that are worth about 2.8 million. We have mutual funds, which includes a college fund for our son and a small charitable trust that we recently started. That's worth about, um, 500,000. Uh, we have paid for real estate, including, um, rental property worth about 2.2, 2.3, depending on how you measure it. Um,

We have some passive business investments worth about $500,000 and then other assets, a couple of cars and some collections and things that make up the rest. Good for you. How old are you guys? Well, I'm 54. And I'm 42. Okay, cool. Very cool. How much of this 6.3 did you inherit? We inherited about $70,000 from my parents when they passed away about four or five years ago. You were already millionaires.

Yes, we were. Okay. All right. And what's your best year working income household and your worst year?

So our best year, we were a little north of a million dollars. Our worst year is probably right now. Neither one of us is working at the moment. Dan was diagnosed with cancer a few months ago. So we decided that we had the ability to step back and focus on that and focus on each other. So we did. But I'd say, you know, our entry level, you know, my entry level is probably around 30,000 a year and Dan's was about 40,000.

Okay, wow, okay. So about 70 was your startup? About 70 was where we started, yeah. What were your careers? What did you all do?

I started as an accountant and then became a consultant and ultimately, you know, just an executive. Dan, you want to talk about your background? Yeah, I started off in the military and then I got out. I went into manufacturing and recently left as an executive with a manufacturing firm handling supply chain. Gotcha. Okay. All right. What do you drive right now? What kind of cars do you drive?

We always buy used cars. I have an F-150, and Nicole has a Honda Accord. Okay. How old is your Honda Accord, Nicole? It's a 2022. Okay. And how old is your F-150, Dan? It's a 2020. Okay. That's not too bad. Sometimes I have to tell millionaires to go buy a car because their car sucks so bad. But y'all did okay. I can see that. You got through this. I can see that.

So, Nicole and Dan, when we talk to people who are concerned about their net worth and trying to build, you know, get to millionaire status, sometimes there's a negative connotation. Like, for what? Talk to the person who is sitting there listening to this going, yeah, yeah, yeah, but so what? Talk to them about the freedom you have when your husband comes home and says, oh my gosh, I just got this diagnosis.

And y'all can exhale and say, then we're going to take some time off and just be together. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, we've been big fans of the Ramsey show and Dan went through financial peace when he was in the military. But we've only decided to call in now for that reason, because we did want to share that. I mean, you know, when we...

paid off our house a few years ago. That felt amazing. And the freedom that we had then to really do some things that were a little more risky so that we could create even more wealth at that point was incredible. But it's kind of nothing compared to the freedom to say, okay, we know exactly where our money is. We know exactly what we need to have coming in every month to be able to sustain ourselves

And we don't have a bunch of debt hanging over our heads and big payments on things. We can actually, we can choose to spend this time together and to fight this battle together. It wasn't even a second thought. We just made that decision and moved forward. And if you need $300,000 to try an alternative treatment in XYZ City, you load up a plane and you go write a check and you go do it, right?

Yeah, 100%. And you don't even think about it. It's incredible. You didn't even think about it. No, didn't even think about it. That to me is the true definition of freedom is we can go do the next right thing and we don't have to think about it.

Yeah. I'm sure Dan has some other thoughts about the freedom and the security. Well, it's putting the plan that you've been building and what you've been working on through these steps and everything through over the years in case something happens, right? Everybody's healthy until you're not. And to be able to take a step back

and have the freedom and just really, literally the peace of mind to know that I'm going to focus on my health and I'm going to go back to work eventually. I'm going to get there. But right now, for the next four to six months, I'm going to focus on this. We're going to beat this thing. Yeah, go beat it. And I don't have to worry about...

you know, the electric bill or the mortgage. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Hey, we'll be praying for you, brother. Thanks for sharing your story. You too. Fabulous. It's a baby steps millionaires theme hour.

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So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. It's easy to join no matter where you live. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Running a business is freaking hard. It's easy to get caught up in the daily challenges and fears that keep you stuck. That's why I want you to reserve your copy of our new book, Build a Business You Love.

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Build a business you love. The essential guide for every business owner like you that wants to grow yourself, lead your team, and scale your business. To reserve your copy, go to RamseySolutions.com slash store. RamseySolutions.com slash store. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host. It's a Baby Steps Millionaires theme hour, which means we're talking to real millionaires, not your broke brother-in-law with an opinion. Where do millionaires really live?

come from? Well, we did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America. We studied 10,167 of them, and they weren't all Ramsey millionaires. There were people, a lot of them, who didn't even know who we were. And we did a detailed, airtight research methodology, meaning the facts that we got out of this are what are known as data, not opinions. So if you disagree with the conclusions of the study, you're what's known as wrong.

All of that white paper from that research and the detail and the conclusions are in the Baby Steps Millionaires book that I did, my last bestseller, number one bestseller. And if you want to pick it up and learn more about what we're talking about this hour, it's very important. One of the things we found, for instance, was that a lot of Americans, because of stupid stuff on YouTube and TikTok, believe that millionaires all inherit their money. And what we found was almost none do.

Three things go on. Number one, 79% of millionaires inherited zero. Number two, 5% inherited a small amount like $5,000. They did actually get an inheritance, but it's not enough mathematically to make you a millionaire unless you live to be 200 years old. Number three, like our last caller, they got a good amount of money, in their case $70,000, but sometimes we heard $200,000 or $300,000 in inheritance after they were already millionaires.

So by definition, 79 plus 5 plus 5% is 89% did not become millionaires because of inherited money. That's 9 out of 10. Now, what does that mean? Well, number one, it means the anarchist, leftist, crazy communist people saying all rich people inherit their money is not. They're factually incorrect. They have an agenda of something else, apparently, if they know what the truth is. Number two.

It should give anyone out there that's not a millionaire great hope because nine out of ten didn't become millionaires because of inherited money. They became millionaires because of habits and processes and things that they did or dumb luck. They hit the lottery or something like that. But anywhere in there, and that can be you, but it wasn't the proverbial rich uncle died and left me a bunch of money.

Or mom and dad died and left me a bunch of money. That's not where it came from. Statistically, that's a data-based fact. Rob is with us in North Carolina. Rob, what's your net worth? Hi, Dave. Hi, Dr. John. Net worth is just over $1.1 million. Good for you. And give me a little breakdown by category, real estate, mutual funds, retirement, whatever.

Mm-hmm. So $475,000 in retirement, $325,000 in real estate, $100,000 in checking savings emergency funds, $70,000 in mutual funds, $70,000 in paid-for vehicles, and about $110,000 in business interest. Good for you. And how old are you? I am 37, and my wife is 31. Good for you. Okay, cool. And how much of this $1.1 million did you inherit?

We inherited zero. Okay. All right. And your best year working income and your worst year working income? Best year was last year, 275 for the household. And worst year would be when we both started out of college. We were about 45 each, so 90. And I'd say average was about 160. What's your career? I am in construction engineering, and my wife is in, she's a manufacturer's rep for a steel company. Do you have a four-year degree?

I do. In what? Civil and construction engineering technology. Okay, very good. What was your GPA? 3.2. Wow. That a boy. That means you had fun. Good for you. Yeah, a little bit. Good for you. Very cool. So what's the most expensive pair of jeans you ever bought?

Oh, I'd say, I'd say $80, $60 to $80 just recently to still have them. I'm a fan of the Costco pants though. So a picture of you just came up. How much do you spend on grooming that amazing mustache you have?

Oh, that thing's long gone. Oh, it's gone. Okay. I had that for a year. That was my dad's stash. Excellent. Good for you. That was to welcome the little one into the world. Goes with the doodle. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Very fun. All right. What do you guys drive?

Well, my wife drives a 2023 Palisade and I drive a 2020 Ram 1500. Good. Good cars. Good. Okay. That's about right. About right. Are you guys spend more time on TV or on books? Oh, I would say more on TV, unfortunately, but we do do a lot of driving and trips together. And when we do drive, we listen to books on TV.

on audio. Gotcha. Okay, cool. Very cool. Do you think someone that's coming out of college with a civil engineering degree today can still do this? Absolutely. What should they do? Absolutely. Well, I'd say surround yourself with the right people and make sure you're on the same page as your spouse regarding money because I'm telling you right now, life gets real easy when you guys don't fight about money.

Wow. Good insight. That may be the most profound moment of the show today. That's a mic drop right there. Just a one-liner and it's just real things there. Just all right there. Life's pretty good when you don't fight about money. Yeah. And nothing left to fight about much. Well done, Rob. Congratulations, hero. Very proud of you. Mark is in Nashville. Mark, what's your net worth?

My net worth is $2.1 million, and then I have a business that's probably worth $400,000, so $2.1, I guess. Okay. Give me a little breakdown by category, retirement, real estate, whatever. Yep. Yep. Real estate, $1.7 million. Retirement, $305,000. Cash, $100,000. Okay. Very good. Very good. How old are you?

I am 59. 59, good. And how much of this 2.1 did you inherit? Zero. Okay. I inherited a Bible and a book. A Bible and a book. I like it. And served you well. I like it. So what was your best year working income and your worst year working income? Best year working income would be about $225,000. Worst year was probably $20,000. Gotcha. What's your career?

I now own a training company, but for years I actually worked as a safety professional in manufacturing. Okay, training in manufacturing. Okay. You got a four-year degree? I do. I have an undergraduate degree and an MBA. Okay. All right. Very cool. Very cool. Do you think people can still do this today? I know they can. You just have to want to. What would your suggestion be to them? What would they need to do?

What helped me was following my very strategic around following net worth, not income. It's just you win the month or the day or the year. When I started doing that, that was probably the biggest. That's what I would tell people. That's very true because you're concentrating on the right things then because you can burn through income. The old saying, it doesn't matter how much you make, it doesn't matter how much you keep.

Right. Right. And that's the essence of what you're saying. So walk me through that. I don't think I was smart enough to catch that just then. Concentrate on building your net worth, not building your income. There you go. Okay. How big is my net worth is a lot more important question than how big is my income. Because you can absorb your, I mean, you can balloon to fill up your income with cars and clothes and vacations and nonsense. That's fantastic. I love that quote. Say that again one more time, Mark.

Yeah, focus on your net worth on a weekly, monthly, yearly basis, not on your income. I think that's something that Congress needs to hear. I think that's something that the average person just driving down the road needs to hear. Yeah, it's very wise because it's long-term thinking. It's long-term thinking. Because the reason for your income for most people is not consumption, although they consume it.

It should be to build a legacy, to change your family tree, to retire with dignity. All those things are based on net worth, not based on your income. So it's the exact correct thing to aim at. I love it. We're actually doing some work behind the scenes with the software engineers right now to build a net worth program.

calculator and be able to track it as a part of the every dollar app continually because that's the exact thing you should be doing mark's exactly excellent brother i agree with you well done hero proud of you man very cool this is a baby steps millionaires theme hour i'm dave ramsey your host

You know how when you go against what society thinks is quote normal, like avoiding debt, it feels weird at first? Well, I'm here to tell you that is okay. I want you to be weird if that means you're being intentional, including how you budget.

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So no matter where you are in your financial journey, CHM can help you reach your money goals and still get the care you need. Plus, programs start as low as $98 a month. So go to chministries.org slash budget to find out more. That's chministries.org slash budget. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here. All right, I'm about to say what everyone already knows, but budgeting is a good thing to do. Now actually starting, well, that's where people freeze up.

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Every dollar keeps budgeting simple and stress-free, just the way you want it. So go download the app for free and get started today. Again, go download EveryDollar today. So Baby Steps Millionaires Theme Hour, we're talking to real millionaires, not broke people with an opinion.

We've painted the glamorous as the millionaire, and statistically that's not true. You don't have to be a rock star, country music star, actor in Hollywood, or sports professional to be a millionaire. As a matter of fact, less than 1.6%, less than 2% of America's millionaires are people of the, you know, famous people like that. They're not. They're just not. So, um...

I mean, there are those that are out there and some of them are billionaires that you know, but the truth is you don't have to be able to play in the NBA. Otherwise, I'd be screwed, right? Or professional golf, I'd for sure be screwed or be a professional actor. I'm not pretty enough. I got a face for radio or whatever.

to be a millionaire. It turns out that it's the tortoise beats the hare every time. It's slow and steady wins the race. And these are the people that we meet all the time. Now, if you've got money some other way, I still want to talk to you because you're representative of what millionaires are. We don't set these calls up. I mean, we do. People call in and we arrange them to be on the air during this hour, but we don't tell them what to say and we don't only take certain types of millionaires. We put the real people

people on that really listen to the show that really have a net worth of a million dollars or more michael is one of them in st louis michael what's your net worth about 1.7 million good for you give me a little breakdown by category

So, probably about $600,000 in stocks and mutual funds, about another $600,000 in IRAs and 401ks. Then I got about $400,000 in equity on my home, and then I've got a vacation home with about another $150,000, $200,000 in equity on that. And then I've got probably $70,000 sitting in a savings account. In cash. Okay, cool. How old are you?

53. Cool. What's your best? Oh, how much of this did you inherit? None. Zero. Okay. And what's your best year working income? Worst year working income? My best year working income is 230 now. My worst year was when I started very, very long time ago at about 18,000 a year. Yeah, that's what I started at. That's cool. Okay. And I'm older than you. What has been your career?

I'm in finance. I'm a CFO right now. Okay. And a degree in finance or accounting or what? Actually, I've got an undergrad in psychology but a master's in finance. Okay. MBA with specialization in finance. Okay. And your GPA on the MBA? 3.7. Gotcha. Okay. Because that's the other thing people believe, the other myth that people believe is that all –

millionaires have like a 4.2 that they're all geniuses or something, and most of us, our GPAs were in the threes. Mine's actually a 297. I'm still pissed about that three one-hundredths of a point, too, but I think beer was involved. All right, so what do you drive? I just bought, so the first time in my life I paid cash for a car. I just bought it two weeks ago. It's a Toyota Land Cruiser. Good, okay. And what's your wife drive?

She drives a Lincoln Corsair. How old?

The car or the wife? The car. It's a 21. Okay, good. That's the right answer for your wife, too, brother. You could keep both of them. Stay at 21. No, I always tell my wife it's 39, and she's been 39 for 20 years. Yeah, it's the 20th anniversary of your 39th birthday. That's right. Love it. Okay, good. Good. Mine just had that. All right. So can this still be done?

Can someone still become a millionaire by age 53? Oh, yeah. It's just about work, Dave. I mean, it's hard work. It's putting money away. It's not, you know, my wife and I talked about this a couple years ago. You know, we watched our friends in our early 20s, you know, go into debt, going on vacation and buying cars. And we didn't do that, right?

we stayed at home. We didn't have our first vacation until we were married for four years and it was a road trip to Colorado. So, you know, we were, our dates were picnics in a, in a local park that had a concert during the summer on the weekends. So we can go out to dinner. We didn't do that stuff. We, we socked our money away. And, and the other thing I will tell you is we also didn't, we also have conversations about everything, right? Like she knows our investments. I'm a,

hide anything from her. We don't make any big decisions without talking. Even when I want to change jobs or move on, I don't do it unless I have her blessing. Yeah. How do you handle the frustration? Because there's a sense that once I become a quote unquote millionaire and you're almost 2X, that I don't have to worry about stuff.

I buy whatever car I want. I can live where I want. You know, there's kind of that leap between, oh, I'm actually a net worth, like my net worth is a million dollars or more. But I still have to think about it. I still got to think about it.

Oh yeah. I, I, you never, I think at that point you're, you're going to lose your million pretty quick. Um, so I mean, my opinion, I mean, I, I agonized about this car for four months before I bought it. I've never, I've never bought a new car. I take that back. I bought one new car early on and my father let me have it. Um, he was in the car business and made it very clear that buying a new car was not smart. So this was kind of a little thing for me. And, and, um,

Even then, if he were still alive, I'm sure I'd be getting a what for for buying a new car. Well, you got a Land Cruiser. That's a beautiful ride, man. Yeah, it's a great car. It's a great car. Way to go, Hero. Thank you for sharing your story. We appreciate you. All right, Amos is in Memphis. What's your net worth, Amos? Right at $1 million. Gotcha. Okay. And a little breakdown on the categories, please.

$400,000 in IRA, $100,000 in cash, $350,000 in property, and $150,000 in savings bonds. Got it. Okay, cool. How old are you? 62. 62 or 52? 62. 62, okay. And how much of this did you inherit?

None of it really. Well, I guess the $100,000 cash is kind of... My parents put me in their trust and they placed everything in my name 25 years ago. And my mom has now moved in with me and everything's... All the accounts are now merged. So it's all mine. Did that money cause you to be a millionaire or you were already a millionaire when you got that money? That kind of put me over the top. Okay. I was already on path in...

On my project, I'm going to be probably at two or three a year very shortly. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good. Good. And what's your best year working income and your worst year? My best year was this last one that counts severance because I was laid off after 19 years, and that was $129. My lowest was probably when I was making $9 an hour driving a truck. Yeah. So it sounds like the majority of your life you've made under $100K. Yeah.

Yeah, under 50 for most of it. It was just the last 19 years. When I started this last job, I had nothing. And I've been trying to get into this company for a while.

And when I got in there, I got into their 401k and put in six matching. And then they had an option. I can increase the percent 1% every year. And so I set that. So every year I'm putting in more in the 401k and they had a pension plan and I had that and they had stock purchase. And I got into that because the jump from my last job to that was almost 20 grand. And we were kind of set in our budget. So I just put all the extra money towards retirement because I didn't have it started. And so,

So in 19 years, you turned the whole thing around, yeah. Right. What was your career? What did you do for a living? DBA. I got an IT. Oh, okay. Very good. Yeah, I went from driving trucks to driving a computer. Got it. Okay. Works for me. Can people still do this today?

Yeah, I like the fact that I don't know if I found anything new, but if you are getting like normal cost of living increases, is something that I learned when I was a kid is like to pay yourself first. And so if I get a 3% raise, I always put a 1% towards retirement. And then you don't even notice it. You just forget about it. And it just snow, like you put it, it snowballs. This is a good one, yeah.

You know, the good kind of snowball. The compound interest gets in your favor, and here we go. And it's slow and steady, slow and steady. And, John, one of the things we have learned is people set it and forget it. What he said there, you create a system where you don't have to think about it. That's right. Reduce the friction, as James Clear says. It's not some kind of like strong, muscular discipline. It's just like it comes out of my check, and I don't think about it. That's right. And it stays on autopilot, and that keeps me doing it. This is a Baby Steps Millionaire's Theme Hour.

Hey guys, Dr. John Deloney here. Finding time to intentionally connect with your spouse can be hard. That's why I'm excited to announce that Money in Marriage Getaway is back. Hang out with me and Rachel Cruz November 6th through 8th in Nashville, Tennessee. You'll learn practical tools to better communicate, deepen your intimacy, and

and more. Plus, we'll dig into your questions with live Q&As. Early bird tickets start at $749, but hurry, prices are going up soon and this will sell out. Get yours at ramseysolutions.com slash events. Thank you for joining us, America. This is The Ramsey Show. It's a Baby Steps Millionaires theme hour. John and I are going on the road here in a couple of months. We're going to be in six different cities doing the Money and Relationships Tour.

We're going to be talking about raising money smart kids, how to fight a fair fight in marriage, finding contentment. We're going to talk, of course, about wealth building, of course, about anything having to do with relationships. And here's what's weird. It's unfiltered, unscripted, and packed with wisdom. What we're going to do is we're going to put up a bunch of topics for the audience when we first get in the arena or in the theater.

And you guys are going to text in and tell us which ones we're going to talk about. So you're going to build the event that night when you get there. And that's going to be weird and fun. And we're kind of excited about it. We're going to be in Louisville, Kentucky, April 21st is the first one. Durham, North Carolina, April 23rd. Atlanta, Georgia, April 25th.

Then a couple weeks later, we're going to Phoenix on May 5, Fort Worth May 7, and Kansas City on May 9. You can get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com slash tour, or you can click on the link in the show notes, and it'll get you set right up. John, this is going to be fun. It's different. Dude, it's going to be wheels off. I was talking to Rachel. We did the Monday Marriage event this last weekend, and I said, I don't get nervous very often for these kind of things.

I'm excited and nervous for this one because it's going to be us two on stage letting it rip, man. We're both going to be out there, and we just got to, you know, it's like contemporary. I mean, I was in like a speech thing when I was in contemporaneous speaking. I can't even say it. But, you know, it would like draw a subject out of a card, a deck of cards, and then you had to go. Let it rip. And you had to go, and that's kind of what we're going to be doing. But people don't get to see us cutting up and having a good time and playing.

poking at each other and i'll be answering your questions in a sense and you know we got a whole interactive format built it's going to be very fun it's something different and every show is so uh cookie cutter now right and like it's just stamp and stamp and stamp and what i love about this one is every every city is going to get a new show and uh the new events it's gonna be fun and in some cases that's gonna be good that's right that's right

I can't wait. So be sure. Hey, it's in April and May, six cities. Check it out at RamseySolutions.com. There's still some tickets left, and we'd love to have you come visit with us. We're looking forward to meeting you when we're out on the road.

Debra is our next millionaire up in Atlanta. Debra, what's your net worth? My net worth is $1.4 million, $1.5 million. Gotcha. And a little breakdown by category? $500,000 Roth IRA, $5,000 mutual fund stocks, $300,000 in my house, and $100,000 to $200,000 in money market savings. It's my emergency fund. Gotcha. How old are you?

67. 67. And how much of this did you inherit? About $100,000, a little bit from grandparents and a little bit from my parents. How long ago? Grandparents, 30-some years ago, and my parents, 15 to 20 years ago. So a real part of you being a millionaire is inherited money then?

No, no, it isn't. It was only $100,000 and the rest I earned myself. Okay. All right. But if you had invested that, it would have been a big part of this, right? Oh, yes. But that was invested. That went into my investments. I never touched it. I see. Okay, good. What was your career?

I was an administrative assistant. Okay. And what was your income, best year and worst year? Worst year was probably when I started. Maybe I made $11,000 a year. And when I retired last June, $42,000. Forty-two. So you never made over $42,000? I never made more than that. And you're worth a million and a half at 67. That's right.

What do you tell people when they're listening to this that are in their 20s that can they do this and what did you do? What should they do to be like you? You can do it. I had a great teacher, especially my dad, started early, had a piggy bank and bank account, couldn't reach the teller window. But start early as you can. Live with what you need, not what you want. Don't try to keep up with friends and neighbors.

Look for the far future, not just tomorrow. You know, just keep slow and steady, slow and steady. Live on less than you make. I always paid myself first. That went into savings. And, you know, and then I lived on the rest. I didn't try to keep up with others. What do you drive? A 15-year-old Honda Civic.

and I bought it used. Incredible, dude. Incredible. What's it like being 67 and not worrying about money?

It's a weird feeling. I still can't get used to it. My financial advisor, who is fantastic and helped me get this far, he keeps saying, you know you're okay, you know you're okay. And I'm going, well, I'm not sure yet. Well, I'm proud of you. That's amazing. You did a great job. I was just well taught. You know, any...

Anything that was extra always went into savings. If you got raises or bonuses, it was like untouched. Put it in savings. When I say savings, I mean in my Roth IRA every year, in my mutual funds. Keep

Keep plowing through it. Well, there's lots of ways to find information these days, and you're one of the rare people that just went and did it. And so that's amazing. We're proud of you. So cool. You know your dad's really proud, don't you? I hope he is. I hope he is. He had a saying. He said, if you're walking down the street and you see a penny on the sidewalk, pick it up because you may need it to make a dollar. There you go. That's how it works. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

Oh, where are those guys? Oh, my goodness. I love it. Alex is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Alex, what's your net worth? It is $1.1 million. Very cool. And give me a little breakdown by category. It is $700,000 in my emergency fund and my retirement savings and my kids' college. And then $200,000 in home equity and about $150,000 in vehicles and other assets and toys. Gotcha. How old are you?

33. How much of this did you inherit? Nothing. My parents did help me out with college, but that's about it. Okay. And what do you make a year? $450,000. Whoa, what do you do?

I'm a financial planner. Good for you. Well done. Very cool. Well, and you're obviously doing it for yourself. Well played, brother. The Cobbler's kids have no shoes. Not yours. They got good shoes. I like it. Well done, sir. Very well done. Well, congratulations. Thank you for sharing your numbers with us. Guys, it's not mythology, and it's not out of reach, and the American dream is not dead. The people out there telling you they're trying to steal your hope, I call them hope stealers. That's an evil thing.

Evil movement. When people tell you you can't win, you need to stay away from those kind of people. You can win. And it's not a panacea. This is not Pollyanna. It's not easy winning.

it's not automatic but it's very doable when you apply yourself none of the people we talked to today were geniuses none of them were crooks none of them were trust fund babies they were all people just like you john this can be done yeah it can be done and every single person on here has remarked about we just did a thing and we just kept doing it consistency consistency consistency consistency and you look up and you're 33 you're 55 you're 67

And you're worth more than a million dollars. So it's just not a hack to it, man. It's just not a hack. I keep showing up and keep showing up. Live on less than you make and save some money. Whoa. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

I mean, that's it. I mean, it's 42 years old, 31, 59, 53, 62, 67, and 33. That was the millionaires we talked to today. They weren't 92. They didn't live in a cave and collect lint and only come out on triple coupon Thursday. They had a life. They're driving reasonable cars, which sometimes I find they're still driving cheap junk and I need to get them to get a car. But because they've been driving cheap junk so long, that's how they got there. Yeah.

But, you know, you guys have done such a good job. This is very doable. If you want to learn more, pick up the book, Baby Steps for Millionaires. I've sold almost a million of those now. It's because I want to make more millionaires. And you know what makes them? It's not magic. It's hope. And that's why we do this hour to give you guys hope.

and offset the hope stealers that are saying the American dream is dead. It's impossible. You're not waiting on the White House to fix your life. What happens in your house is more important. None of these people said the president sent me money because the president never sends you money. Well, if they do, it's a trick. Be careful. He'll come ask for it back. Wow. I love it. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the book.

The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman, and this is what my new show, Front Row Seat, is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more. What sets successful people apart is a never-ending desire to learn and

grow. Each week, I'll be joined by industry leaders and world-class experts to have a conversation about how to get better, move up, and lead well in work and life. But the best part of this show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in studio, we'll have a group of professionals just like you who have the power to ask questions and steer the discussion in real time. It's an opportunity to get real answers to real questions.

like how to make the right decisions, have hard conversations, live a balanced life, and discover your next steps to growth. Join us every Tuesday for conversations that are guaranteed to surprise, challenge, and inspire you. Check out Front Row Seat wherever you get your podcasts.