Stop Letting Other People's Problems Ruin Your Finances
01:31:20 Share

Hey guys, it's James Childs, producer of The Ramsey Show. Hey, this week Dave and the personalities are living it up on the Ramsey Cruise, so we've put together a compilation of some of our favorite calls and segments from the last year. Regular shows are back next week. Hope you enjoy. ♪

What up, what up? This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney joined by the great George Camel. Live from Nashville, Tennessee, we are taking your calls on your money, building wealth, doing work that you love, and creating and sustaining and hanging on to great relationships.

So glad that you're with us today. We're taking live calls, 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. We have a packed house out here in the audience. Good to see everybody coming to visit us here in, actually we're in Franklin, just north of Nashville. But we are glad you are with us as well. Let's go out to Milwaukee. No, no, no, no. Let's go out to Dallas, detone and talk to Cyrus. Hey Cyrus, what's up man? Hello, how you doing? Doing outstanding, my man. What's up?

Why'd you jump to that conclusion? What makes you think you can't crawl out of this?

Well, I've been working a lot, two jobs, constantly. I'm not really able to get anywhere. Recently, about a year ago, I caught a case for a felony charge, and I

I am still going on actively with that case, trying to get probation. So it's been very difficult for me to find another job now that my background check has shown a felony charge. So what are you doing now for work? Yeah, so I'm working at Amazon. I'm making...

about $4,100 a month at a minimum. I can potentially make more depending on if they allow me to get overtime or work a six day. I'm working five days there right now. Last year I made $60,000 off of it, off of Amazon alone. But I'm just like drowning right now with payments. And I did...

I rounded up all my minimum payments for all my loans and everything, and my minimum is $5,300 a month. And that's just on minimum payments. That's not including food or rent or anything else. How have you made it so far? What's getting you through every month if you're going underwater? So...

How did I make it so far? Well, I've been doing... Are you going further into debt every month? No, no. So I'm tapped out. I can't even get the debt consolidation loan. My credit is shot. What kind of debt is this? What is this debt, man? Can you break down the 160? Yeah. So I have a vehicle that's 51,000 I would have left on it. 51,000? Yeah.

Yeah, it's a Tesla Model Y Performer. Oh, not a Tesla. What's it worth? Yeah. Not $51,000. It's only worth $35,000. How much? $35,000. Okay. What else? I have nine credit cards that are total of $55,000 with the debt on that.

And then I have the rest of my loans, which is $98,000, which is three personal loans and then my auto loan. Your other what? My auto loan. Auto loan. You have another auto loan? Yeah.

No, no, no. It's the Tesla. Okay. So you got 51K on the car, nine credit cards that are 55K, and then the other, what is that, another 50 or 60 is in personal loans? No. So total with the car, it's 98. So it would be another like 40 in personal. Okay. Where did all this money go? What have you been spending on? So... We're talking 100K and just spending. Okay.

Yeah. To make a long story short, as I mentioned, I had a three-year-old daughter. I was in a relationship with this woman. Basically, she was unfaithful to me. We broke up. Ever since then, I've been trying to honestly repair our relationship for our child and also because, you know, it's a woman that I love and care about.

Well, long story short, it's been years of nonstop taking on her debts, you know, paying, you know, for food and basically living like two households the whole time. And, yeah, basically just... So she's been scamming you for this. I mean, she's been just leeching off you all this time, huh? Yes, yes. And now, you know, recently I got, you know, we...

You know, I moved, we basically broke up again and I'm left with all this and I just, she doesn't want to make it work. And I've been continuing trying to make it work for my child. And I just, this is where I'm at now. Making it work for your child is different than digging $150,000, $160,000 hole trying to impress a girl.

Those are two different things. And you have lied to yourself for the last two or three years saying, I'm quote unquote doing this for the baby. But you've been running around with your peacock feathers out trying to woo this woman. And man, she's been just happy to take your money, happy to take all your stuff. But it wasn't about that girl. And now again, I think you love your daughter. I think you're working as hard as you can. But man, you got to let the fantasy of this woman go. It's burying you. What's this felony charge about?

So, she had a guy in my apartment for the second time. All right, let's do this. Let's stop there. I don't want you to say something that's going to get subpoenaed on the air. Let's just roll back to the money part. Is that cool? Are you living alone right now? So, I was going back between my parents and her. I was in my car for a month. Last month, I was in for a whole month just because I couldn't go back to either one.

So now I am back with my parents. They stopped drinking, supposedly, so I'm there for now. And this is another reason why I was thinking about bankruptcy, just because I have a case going on. I'm an unstable household. I can't rely on nobody right now. I'm a worker. Two years ago, I made...

you know 93 000 working doubles when i mean i've been working non-stop two jobs for the last three years but bro if you if you if you make 98 three years in a row you're out no no not three years in a row no no i'm telling you like i want you to hear george and i say we believe in you if you make 90 grand for three years in a row just straight hustling you'll be out you'll be free

Yeah. Listen to me. You'll be free. If you file bankruptcy, you're putting a chain around your neck and you're jumping into a lake. Yeah. The problem I have is I've been applying for jobs in my record with the felony charge. I got it. I got it. The deck is firmly stacked against you until you get that clear. 100%. Yeah. But I have never one time... I mean, I've never...

The guy who mows my lawn, I don't know if he's got a felony charge. He just does a great job, right? I mean, there's work to be had. It's not traditional work and it's not fun work. And it is hard, grinding, hot, cold work. But there's work. What do you think, George? Yeah, there's no shortcuts here. We got to get your income up ASAP. I would not file bankruptcy. You can get out of this, but it's going to take three years of hustle throwing 50 grand at the debt. And that means getting that income up.

And man, you're going to have to get creative. You might have to get a roommate or two. Keep living with the parents. Do what you got to do. But do not throw that chain around you just yet. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And

And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Terrifying. You're going to have a crisis here. You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. These are the two options. Yeah.

It's saying I love you to your family. Term Life Insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Tammy's on the line from Tampa, Florida. Tammy, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you. Sure. How can John and I help? Well, I'm just needing some assistance with stopping giving my ex-daughter-in-law money. Okay. I have an awesome tip for this, before you even ask your question.

Yeah. Okay, you ready? Yep, go ahead. All right. Do you have a pen and paper you can write this down? Sure. You'll remember it. Okay. All right. Stop giving your ex-daughter-in-law money. That was incredible, wasn't it? That was genius. That was incredible. I went to a lot of grad school for that one. That's called trolling, Tammy. Don't fall for it. So why can't you stop giving her money?

Well, I did. I've been giving her money for a long time trying to help her because she's a single mom. What's a long time and how much? Since my husband died in September and probably about $4,000. Total, four grand since September. Yeah, I've paid her rent since January. It's $800 a month. Where's your son in this? He is not in the picture at all. So he is paying support. In your life or hers?

He's paying her child support $25 a week. Okay. A week. Where is he? He's in North Carolina, and he's dropped out of her life or everyone's life. Is he legally supposed to be paying more than $25 a week? No, that's what the courts awarded him. So he's indigent. He's not working. Is he struggling with addiction pretty bad?

Not addiction. He's a transgender. So he's not, he's just not in the picture at all. Okay. He just dropped out of his life. So are you, are you giving money? Cause you feel guilty?

A lot of it is, yeah. Well, because she's a single mom, I don't want her to go under. And this is your grandchild still. It's not an ex-grandchild. It's still your grandchild. Yeah, she's raising my grandchild. I gave her a car. I gave her my car, and then I bought a car so that she would have a reliable vehicle because she was going under with the used car dealership. Well, if you want to keep giving her money, then...

Why do you want to stop giving her money? I don't have it anymore. There you go. I'm 59. I want to retire someday, and I can't just keep giving her money. But the latest was Sunday night when she messaged me that she's going to be evicted if I don't help her pay her rent. Is she working full-time?

She works two jobs. She gets food stamps, child support. She no longer has a car payment. I mean, I don't know where her money's going. Here's the deal, though. Unless you want to file with the Child Protective Services in that local area and take custody of this kid because the kid's not safe, where her money goes isn't any of your business. And I know that's hard to hear, but it's not.

Yeah. And she, you've been giving her money, thousands and thousands of dollars. And you'll probably had a ton of conversations about your son who's transitioned. Like you've had tons of conversations with her. Y'all are close and she's going to keep calling you in the middle of the night because she knows you'll bail her out of whatever situation she finds herself in. Yeah. And so until you say upfront, Hey, I don't have enough money for me. And so from this point forward, um, here's the last $500 I got and this is it.

And she's going to call you again because she doesn't believe you. And you're going to have to hold firm to that boundary. You're going to have to be sad. You have to be upset. You're going to be angry at your child. You have to be angry. You have to be frustrated all of it. But you don't have any money to give. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And it seems like there's a lack of trust on your part because you don't know what she's doing with this money. And you don't think it's going to the things you want it to go to.

That's sort of correct. I don't understand. She works like two towns over. It's an hour away. Why not get a job closer to home? Why not? I just don't know where her money's going, and it's always an excuse, and I'm just tired of the excuses. I just don't want my granddaughter out on the streets, and now she's going to be evicted in three days. Are you in a position to take temporary custody of your granddaughter for a while?

I've told her, yes, she can come stay with me. I mean, I haven't done anything legally. I'm not sure what I need to do legally, but I've told her I can put up my granddaughter. I just, I can't have her in my house. Sure. Of course. What does she say to that? I'm waiting for a response. I just sent her a long message today saying no more financial help. So let's stop communicating in messages because that's how my teenage son communicates with his friends and we're adults and this is too big of a deal. Let's make phone calls. Okay.

Okay. Just pick up the phone and call and say, I'm going to come pick up my granddaughter and she can stay here until you get on your feet again. If that's what you feel like you need to do. Okay. I like that. I think I agree with that. And she may say, I hate you and I can't believe this. Or you may bail her out for three weeks and then she'll come over to the house and say, oh my gosh, you took my kid. Like who knows what's going to happen in the back end of this deal. But at least for three weeks, that little girl's got a safe place to put her head. That's what I want. I just want her to be safe. Yeah.

And I'm not trying to take her child away. I just want her to get on her feet and stop wasting money. Of course. But listen, you don't get any say into her budget. You don't get any say into where she lives and where she works. That stinks, but you just don't, right? Yeah, I know. And we want the, man, I can't even imagine being in the situation you're in. But just because it hurts doesn't mean it's wrong. You don't have a pain-free path forward here.

You have to choose the one that's going to hurt and also lead you to where you want to be, which is right now a safe place for your daughter and your bleeding cash that you don't have. And have you grieved your husband's loss?

Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's, I think that maybe it's just being taken advantage of since my husband's passed. Okay. It's tough, you know, and he would probably, he's rolling over in his grave seeing me give our money. It's okay. Hey, you went through a period of having to survive.

And you're still breathing and you're good. And now we're going to start making some harder and firmer and more safe and rational choices, right? Yeah. Yeah. Forgive yourself, man. I can't. My life would end if my wife passed away. It would stop. And I would hope to give myself some grace on what I did the next few months. It would just be, I can't even wrap my head around that. So I'm going to give you some, give yourself some grace.

You've been trying to keep your family afloat as it's kind of drifting apart from you. Thank you. I'm proud of you, okay? Thank you. And now you've got to put your oxygen mask on and make sure you're in a stable enough place so that if you do end up having to take custody over this little granddaughter or whatever you choose to do or your child comes home, whatever you've got to do, you're going to be in a more stable place to do that. I agree. Okay? I'm proud of you. And, George, the one thing I always tell parents in this situation is don't –

Don't pull a gotcha, meaning if you've been giving money for month after month after month after month and it's up to thousands of dollars, in my opinion, that warrants a conversation, not just an overnight cutoff. Because somebody has begun to lean on that money and you have shown up time and time and time again, it's worth a conversation and that can be an uncomfortable one.

'Cause she's gonna say, "Hey, this is it. I don't have any more money." Oh, she's just gonna let us, like, it's all her fault, right? I can't control how your budget, how you spend any of that stuff. I'm just telling you I don't have any more money, right? It's worth that conversation. And then you gotta hold those boundaries firm 'cause those waters are coming and we're gonna see if they're gonna hold. - It's so hard. And I know a lot of people, not this particular situation, but a lot of people are going through some version of this where they're trying to be a good, nice person. It's turned into this enabling. They have to have the hard boundary conversation.

and it's a close person in their life. How do you even begin that? - Well, I'll take it one step further. It's not only like we talk on the show, we often oversimplify it, right? Like you just cut that person off. What if I cut that person off and they have my granddaughter who's four, right? Like it complicates things.

And so like, like we talked about in that call, what's the end goal? The end goal here is I can't give you any more money. And the end goal is I need my granddaughter safe. Okay. Well then maybe she's gonna have to come live with you for a couple of weeks. Cause that's the only option, right? Is anybody want that? No, but that's, that's the next right thing. So I think it's, it's sometimes it's as simple as telling your 25 year old kid, like you got to move out of the basement.

Often it's sitting down and saying, okay, what's the best thing for the children involved in this deal? And what's the reality? My financial reality, I don't have more money. I can't give you anything else. Or I'm going to have to be calling you for money. And you got to make those hard decisions and think through all the ramifications of that. But none of it is easy. And I think we all want an easy path. None of it's easy. It's all hard. And you got to go do it anyway.

So good. Well, Tammy, thanks for the call. We're wishing the best for you. Hope this ends up with a good situation for you and your granddaughter. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

I hate to admit this, but I don't always eat right. I know I need to eat more fruits and veggies, but sometimes I just have to pound some chips because they taste so good. That's why I love my Field of Greens. It helps me eat healthy when I don't have much time. And each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens was doctor selected for a specific health benefit, heart health.

lungs, kidney, metabolism, even healthy weight. And folks, I ain't getting any younger. It's super easy to mix with water. And here is the great part of it. I thought it might taste like grass, but it tastes great. And Only Field of Greens makes this promise.

your doctor will notice your improved health or your money back. So go to fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey for 20% off your first order. That's fieldofgreens.com slash Ramsey to save 20% on your first order. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by George Campbell, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Selling a house the Ramsey way makes home ownership something to celebrate, not something that ruins every part of your life.

The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find an agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey. And here's the deal, to get you the best offer on your house or find the right house for you, nothing is worse than having a real estate agent who's pressuring you to buy a house that you can't afford or is at the top, top, top end of your budget that's making you queasy, but they got to get the sale and they want to get their number.

Ramsey trusted agents don't do that. They walk with you. They know what you're trying to accomplish and they know that you want to get a house and you want to have peace inside that home.

We send you the top agents in your area, folks that we trust, that we use in our homes and our lives. You can review their stats. You can interview them. You can decide which one you want to work with. Ramsey Trusted Agents have years of experience and will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, marketing, and making or choosing the right offer. Find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent for free. It doesn't cost you anything. Just go to ramsaysolutions.com slash agent.

All right, let's go out to Charlotte, North Carolina and talk to M-A-T-T. What's up, Matt? How we doing? Good. How are you? We're partying, brother. How can we help, man? So I sort of have like one question. So I'm not like an avid watcher of the Ramsey show, but I see a lot of clips online where you guys talk about mutual funds and investing in mutual funds. I was wondering, why do you recommend mutual funds over index funds? Great question, man. How old are you? 21. 21.

Lovely. And are you investing right now? Yeah, I've been investing since I was 15. Oh my goodness. Dude, that's amazing. Who taught you that? My dad taught me a little bit and I read about it. Nice. What have you been investing in for the past six years? So I was doing like mostly index funds, but I like to play around, do some stock picks, but obviously not a lot of

Not a big portion of my portfolio goes towards that. Okay. Are you working full time? Yeah, I'm in marketing. Nice. That's amazing. Okay. And how much are you investing as a percentage of your gross household income? Probably like 25, 30%. Oh my goodness. Okay. So you're going to be a multimillionaire regardless of this conversation that happens next. Can we agree on that? Yeah. Okay. Where do you live, Matt?

Um, right outside of Charlotte. No, no, no. Like, do you have your own house? Your own apartment? You living with mom? Where are you living? No. I still live with my mom at home. Okay. All right. Cool. How much do you make a year? Yeah. Um, 80 to 90. Oh my goodness, dude. You're crushing it. So you're, we're talking, you're investing like 18,000 a year. Yeah. And you've got a 401k through your employer? No. I use a Roth IRA. Okay. So what happens after you max that out?

I just put in a regular brokerage. Okay.

Great. So let's talk about index funds versus mutual funds. And for the listener's sake, if they're like, what are these goober nerds talking about? Index funds are basically passively managed mutual funds. So still a giant group of stocks, but it's tracking an index, basically a set list of companies. Whereas the mutual funds that are actively managed has an investment manager that is selecting the funds that make the list. Let's go even simpler for guys like me. When you say indexed, they're indexed and they're passively managed. Right.

So index, there's no one running the show. It's just a set list. So they pick, I'm making these up. The S&P 500. There's 500 companies, the largest U.S. companies. And if they go up, then the index fund goes up. And if they just all go down, then the index fund kind of goes down. And over time, we hope these companies just keep getting bigger and growing. And then can companies fall off the S&P 500 and new ones pop in? Yes. So the whole thing should be just going up over time.

Exactly. And so index funds means nobody's driving. It's just following whatever. It's the autonomous vehicle of the investing world. You like that? You just ruined it for people. I know. There we go. Excellent. Okay. Is that a good summary, Matt? Because you know about this stuff just as much as we do.

Yeah. I mean, one thing that's sort of important to note is that mutual funds sort of have built-in fees, right? You know what I mean? Correct. There's built-in fees. There's an investment manager. There's people to pay because this is their job to run these. Exactly. So they do have fees. The perks of the index funds, as you know, diversification, which mutual funds have, low expense ratios, which index funds have, and predictability. Right.

And, you know, every investing rose has its thorn. For starters, your index funds won't beat the market because it represents the market. Does that make sense? So you'll settle for the average of the market. You can never beat it. The goal of the mutual fund is that that investment manager is picking, is hand-selecting funds based on tons and tons of research that they're doing every day, day in and day out, in order to attempt to beat it. So let's say the market does 10%. Well, the goal of the mutual fund is to do 12% or 14%.

Now, as we know, they won't hit that goal every year. We don't have a crystal ball. We can agree on that. Do you look for specifics in a mutual fund to try to hit those funds? Because I know 80% of mutual funds don't beat the market. No, that's actually factually incorrect. Morningstar did this article and they said nearly 57% of mutual funds, these active U.S. equity funds, they beat the average index fund peer over the 12 months through June 2023. Okay.

So that means six out of 10 mutual funds beat the index. Wait, over how long? Over a 12 month period. They looked at here's the mutual funds did. Here's the peer index funded six out of 10 beat the index fund.

Right, but why are you looking at a 12-month period versus like, you know, decades? You can look at decades and it's going to change depending on the decade you look at. And the truth is there's going to be mutual funds that don't beat the index and there's going to be years the index beats the mutual funds. And so the goal here is to slightly beat the copycat of the stock market, which is the index fund. And so the index funds also do have a fee. You'll see it listed as a 12B1 fee. And so that kind of makes up for the fact the mutual fund fees there.

So it's not exactly free. And here's the thing. We're not anti-index funds. There's a time and place. In fact, Dave Ramsey invests in index funds outside of retirement. You have that taxable brokerage account, right?

Yeah. Dave would say index funds are the smart play there because of the low turnover. They're not moving things around as much, which makes the fees less. But in retirement, you're not having to pay those fees because you're not worried about turnover because this is a long-term play. And therefore, he invests in mutual funds for his retirement accounts, index funds outside of retirement. So there's a time and place for both. What do you look for in a mutual fund, though?

Well, there's a lot of pieces of it, including, you know, rate of return, the expense ratio, what the fund is made up of, who the fund manager is, have they switched the investment team recently? You know, if it's been doing great for 30 years and all of a sudden they switch the crew, well, that's something you want to look out for because things might change. And we actually covered this in depth, Matt, in our investing essentials live stream. And it's not currently available, but just for you, I'm going to send you a link to watch that for free. How's that sound?

Good. But, um, isn't that sort of, um, inevitable? I mean, if, if a mutual fund has a 30 year history with one manager and I'm 21 and I want to invest for another 30 years, you know,

Isn't there pretty much a guarantee that the fund manager is going to change, the fund management team? Sure, over time, you know, things may change. But what we're looking for is that longer-term track record. And so we're not going to choose a fund that's been around for a year. We prefer the one that has a track record of 10 or 15 that's had the same team with the same record of success. But, dude, that's like saying I don't want to –

Yeah.

Some teams are better at integrity than others with the teams I just labeled. I know. Kelly's looking at me not to ask. Kelly's upset. But you see what I'm saying? Like, yeah, the fund managers are going to roll over, but it will change over time. Matt, here's the deal. We can argue all day and I can tell you like this, but you can be a multimillionaire just from your index funds. You don't have to ever touch a mutual fund if you don't want or are going to still be friends. You're doing great. The key is your savings rate.

That's the key. That's what's holding people back from having money. It's not the discussion of index versus mutual. That's for another time. But for everyone else listening, just freaking invest. Be like Matt. At 21 years old, invest $18,000 a year. You're going to have money in retirement regardless of where you put it. And for what it's worth, George and I both put our money in mutual funds. Call me a dummy. Me too. They do, George. They call us dummies. We'll be right back. ♪♪♪

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah. I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why is that? Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the

the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner

changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Yes. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. You know, that's why we're partnering with them.

because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service, and the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up, and we got an account. And I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes,

It was so user-friendly. The step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds,

Again, they make it so easy. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.

This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. This hour, open phones at 888-825-5225.

While you're listening or watching this show, do us a quick favor. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the follow button. Leave a review. Text a link to a friend. Let them know about the show or your favorite clip, a highlight, anything that can get the word out because you guys truly are the best marketing tool we have to keep spreading hope in a world filled with a lot of noise and distractions and hopelessness. And so we try to displace all of that with shows like this, and we appreciate all of your help getting the word out.

Lester is up next in Dallas, Texas. How can we help you, Lester? Hi there. I was calling to see about some advice on how to talk with my wife about saving more than spending. My wife's a spender. I'm a saver. We're aligned on our goals, but she just spends a lot of things here and there. And so just some advice on that. Was there like a spit shake on, hey, here's how much we're going to spend. Here's what the budget says. Stick to it.

Yeah, we've budgeted out a lot of different things. We even have a split to where we have our own fund money where it's like $100 a month that we can spend it on whatever we'd like. But there's a lot of gifts and celebrations and things like that that my wife wants to make sure we're showing love to our friends and family. And then just things add up very quickly, and then things are gone. Is this a communication challenge, or is your wife...

being spiteful because there's two different ways to approach this. I don't think it's, I don't think it's either. Um, my, my wife and I communicate very, very well, um, and frequently about it, but, and I don't think she's being very spiteful at all. She, she agrees that, um, we need to be saving and we want the, we want the things we want where a house and being able to retire as both of our families, um, are in that basket at all and don't have a retirement even in their fifties and sixties. Um,

Um, and we don't want to do that, but she just kind of forgets about the things and it doesn't think about the $20 here or $20 there, a hundred bucks here. And it just kind of adds up. And so if there's anything that we can do to try and try something different, cause we've tried like different cards that only have a certain amount of money on it each month to help limit that. But obviously I don't want her stranded. So she has access to a card that, um,

It has access to the main fund for gas and all that kind of stuff. Are you guys only using debit cards or are there some credit cards still being used? No, no, no. We only have debit cards. I hate credit. I always have. But, yeah, we only use debit cards. I don't mean to overly gender this, but this is just the way it plays out in the real world. Most of the time when I talk to men in your situation, they try to solve this with a plan.

a strategy, a new card, a new spreadsheet, a new commitment ceremony. And the only way I've ever seen somebody be successful is if they are honest with their spouse about the story behind the story, the story behind the strategy. And that would be you sitting down and saying, I need to be open with you. Can I tell you something that's scaring me to death?

And her say, oh, sure, honey, what's going on? And you say, I'm scared about not having any money. And I'm feeling like I'm not communicating this well because every month there's another $250 in gifts and stuff like that in $20 increments. And I don't feel like I'm being fully honest here at the table. And you notice I did two things here. Number one, I was honest. You told her how you felt. You didn't throw a strategy at her. And number two, you used the word I.

Not you keep overspending and you keep doing it because when she does that, man, she's going to go back to her childhood. She's going to go to war. Yeah. My guess is she's going to have to decide...

I would rather feel the short-term discomfort of not having a gift for every single thing that pops up because I never could buy gifts for anybody or I never got any gifts for anybody. And now I can, so I feel like I have to. She's going to have to give up that short-term pleasure for the long-term safety of me and my husband don't have to worry about not having anything to eat. And that's hard. And I haven't seen a way to get there without emotion, without a story, without you saying, this is how I feel.

Yeah. And if she looks at you and says, I don't care how you feel, I'm buying gifts for this thing. Well, now y'all got a deeper issue y'all got to deal with. Yeah. Can you do that? Yeah, most definitely.

The other side of this, Lester, when it comes to the tactical, is that you should be sitting down with her before the month begins going, hey, what's happening this month? A birthday should not be a surprise. We know when the birthdays are happening. Christmas happens on December 25th every year. I check my calendar. Still happening. And so you kind of know what's coming up and you adjust the budget accordingly. So if we need to add a gift...

line item in the budget, let's do that. If we need to add a miscellaneous sort of little catch-all of 50 bucks or 100 bucks, let's do that so it doesn't derail our plans. Well, that's often really important because that's when the $20 plus $20 plus $50 turns into 310 bucks and she goes, oh gosh, I don't want to do that.

Yeah. And the other thing is we check the budget before we make the purchase. So if we go to the gift and we go, oh gosh, I wish we're going to have to do a handmade gift. Let's make a little basket. Let's get some roses from the garden. Let's get creative. George made me a basket once. John still has it. He loves it. It was a great gift.

So Lester, that's where we come up with a solution together and have the conversation. But there is a part of this that's on her as far as accountability going, you need to check the budget before you make the purchase. That's how I do it. That's how you do it. We can't just hope that we lined up with the budget perfectly. We use that as our guiding kind of North Star. And I think when you do that, you start to add in these line items. It starts to be less and less of a surprise. You get to kind of align it a little more. And on top of that,

What is your next goal? What is the thing you guys both agreed to is the next thing that we're saving up for?

Well, it's not necessarily saving up for, it's like being able to pay off our debts. So you're in baby step two. Correct. So even more in baby step two, there's even more intention, intentional sacrifice and intensity here where it's going. We can't afford to buy people gifts. We got to put our own mask on first. We're broke. And think about how many gifts we can buy people. Once we're debt free with an emergency fund, we're preparing for our future. Then we can look up for opportunities to give and be generous.

And so I think that's part of it is you need to have a plan together going, we're going to pay off $700 a month of debt and here's how we're going to do it versus we really need to save more, really got to get rid of this debt. We need to get more specific so we can actually hit the target. Lester, have you tried any of these things we're throwing at you? Does it all sound crazy?

No, no, no, no. Yeah. And these are conversations we've had, but I agree. I haven't been very specific with it. My wife and I are blessed to be in the positions that we're in. I mean, I'm making more money than I ever thought I would before. And it, it's not been specific of, Hey, we're going to spend X amount of dollars on our debt every single month because we have to, um, it's just been, we want to spend more on our debts. Um, and realistically we don't have a lot of debt, um,

even student loans and medical debt and things like that included. We don't have a lot. And so within a year, we could easily have 80% of it paid off. Put that plan in front of her. Put that plan in front of her and y'all talk through it. And then more importantly than that plan, paint a picture for her of how you're going to be able to breathe in your own home. How you and her are going to have something neither of y'all have ever had, which is economic security.

Let her just absorb that and feel her husband radiating this thing that you've probably never radiated before, which is just peace. Man, there's not a lot of gifts I'm going to buy in exchange for my wife's peace, for my peace. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. And then, by the way, once you get that peace, like George said, you don't owe anybody any money. You can buy gifts for everybody. You could be kind of over the top and reckless with who you buy gifts for because you don't owe anybody any money.

So this little plan, this one year thing we're after, this is just part of reverse engineering the picture you painted her. So instead of we got to get on a budget, you got to spend less, it becomes, hey, remember, that's what we're aiming for. This is a little blip on that timeline of intentionality and sacrifice. Are you with me? And I hope that helps. We're going to gift you every dollar premium, Lester. What are you using right now for a budget when you guys sit down together? Uh,

pen and paper. And then I use an Excel sheet and that's kind of it. Yeah, you show a spender an Excel sheet, they implode inside. They die inside. They just die. So we're going to gift you every dollar premium. It's much easier to look at, easier to use. You both log in, you both have accountability. So while she's out, she can actually check the budget versus Lester's spreadsheet at home. So hope that helps Lester. We're wishing you the best.

as you attack this debt. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to Dr. John Deloney, all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat, and you, America, will be back before you know it. ♪

It's Holy Week in Jerusalem and the city is restless. The people of Israel welcome Jesus as King, his followers ready for revolution. But instead of taking the throne, Jesus turns the tables. "Woe to you scribes and Pharisees! How will you escape being condemned to hell?"

Experience Holy Week like never before. What have you done? Coming soon to theaters. The Chosen Last Supper. Get your tickets now. ♪

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my best friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney. He's in the house. He's ready to help. We both are. So give us a call, and let's talk about your life and your money and help you take the right next step forward.

regardless of what's going on in your life. Joseph kicks us off this hour in Los Angeles. Joseph, welcome to the show. Thank you. How are you guys? We're doing well. How are you?

I'm doing really good. My question is, so just to give you a little backstory, my wife and I are debt-free. We're saving up for our fully funded emergency fund right now, and then we plan on to start investing from there to fund our retirement. But yeah, so we're super blessed, grateful to be debt-free. So my question is, though, how can we...

Can we be sure that the dollar is going to maintain its value over the next 30 years since we are going to be investing and following what you guys recommend in like mutual funds 401k? Like, should we be worried about the economy or what do you guys take on that? Where's that question coming from?

It's a question I hear all over the... I mean, I hear that question everywhere, and I've actually lost many nights sleep over that question. Where are you getting it from? So, you know, I have some friends, and they're talking about Bitcoin and all these cryptocurrencies, and I'm not going that route, but...

I don't have a, you know, when they say, well, what about the dollar? I don't really have a good answer or a rebuttal as to why dollar is going to, you know, maintain its value over something like cryptocurrency. So I just wanted to get, so I guess it's coming from, you know, what is trending. Just kind of in the air. Yeah. I'm going to give you my very primitive answer and George, who's way smarter on this stuff, we'll give you a more sophisticated answer. Okay. Yeah.

Can I guarantee anything over the next 30 years? No, you can't. But here's what I can guarantee you. If the US dollar, if we woke up one day and the US dollar had collapsed as a global currency, as a localized currency, Bitcoin would not save you. Having an alternative, oh, okay, we've got this special email account with these special zeros and ones and ones and zeros in it that say it's worth stuff.

Because the world's debt is in U.S. dollars. Bitcoins are bought and traded in U.S. dollars. Everything revolves around that. And so when people are calling for the collapse of the dollar, I can't guarantee it's not going to happen. What I will guarantee you is you'll be fending off your neighbor because they're going to be trying to kill you for your water.

Like it's, it's, or you're going to be figuring out how to walk 30 miles to work to an office that doesn't exist anymore because there's no gas to put in a car. Like it will, it will so change the way we do life for a while that, um, as one of my buddies told me, he's a, he's a bank executive and he said, Hey, cause I was just peppering him with these questions. And it was actually the response that freed me. He looked at me and said, Hey man, I don't have a meteorite plan.

I don't have a plan for if the world gets hit by a meteorite. I'm not building that world up, right? I will deal with that if it happens. But until then, I'm going to do the next best smart right thing that I got, which is buy real estate and invest wisely. Right. And so I think most people don't have a – what kind of scorched earth it would be if Wall Street goes away, right? Yeah.

Definitely. No, that's super good. All right, that was my dragon's end, like,

swords answer. What do you think, George? I fell asleep about three seconds into that, John. I know you did. I was bored to tears. No, I'm just kidding. That was a really good answer. And I have similar things to say, but I'll add to that and tell you this. I grew up in a very evangelical household. My mom can't wait for Jesus to come back, right? She sang the songs. She watched Left Behind. We were all in. And so my thing is always like, Jesus could come back tomorrow, and that could waste all of the effort I made trying to save up this retirement account. But also, what if it's not tomorrow, and I still have to feed my family?

And I kind of feel the same way about the crypto. Like, yes, the dollar could get devalued. I don't think it's going to collapse. If that happened, we're not worried about crypto. Like John said, we're worried about feeding, you know, trading for gas and ammo at that point. And so to your point, I'm going to invest 15% into mutual funds in the stock market because for decades and decades and decades, I know there's a large chance of a 10% return.

With crypto, I'm losing sleep because 24-7 that number is moving and the goalpost is moving and now it's down 50%, but now it's up 1,000%. And what if I had just gotten in and instead I just want to live with peace? I want to sleep well at night. I got to go to work in the morning. And so for that reason, it's fine to keep those friends around. They're probably good guys, well-meaning, who want to take care of their families too. But it's not a peaceful way to live.

And so for that reason, it's fine to put fun money in Bitcoin, but I'm also not going to do it under the guise of my paranoia apocalyptic plan that I'm going to be the one to survive it if I put money in crypto. Hey, Joseph, I'm going to ask a question on your behalf to George. Is that right? Okay, he's smarter on this stuff than I am. Yeah. George, I remember doing an event with Jocko once, and at the end of the event, he said to the audience, we were both on stage there, and he said,

We talk a lot about military stuff. We talk a lot about might and our Navy SEALs ability. But he said the thing that the U.S. has is the small business, is the economics, the economy. And as I dug into that, because I started asking people like, is that true? I mean, it sounds good from a stage, but is that right? And what one finance wizard told me, and again, I'm asking you because who knows, but said when a country says we're going to devalue the dollar,

And they have bought U.S. treasuries. They have a vested interest in the U.S. economy that they actually are going to lower the amount that we owe them. And so the advantage we have is if a country is like, we're going to try to crash the dollar.

then the investments that they have made go away. It hurts them financially. It hurts them significantly. And so my understanding is the world's debt essentially traffics in U.S. dollars. And so if a group of countries get together like, let's crash the dollar, you can do that. And it may be to your advantage over 100 years, but it's going to be ugly.

Right? Because you're crashing the amount you're actually owed back. Yeah. And as much debt as we have, we have a lot of friends out there, John. And so they go, hey, that's my friend. You don't mess with them because they're protecting us. And so it's a very, it's, you get into geopolitics and economics. And Joseph, I'm not smart enough to answer that question on that end. But I just tell you what I do, what John does, and that's investing in our 401ks and IRAs, paying off our houses and saving.

sleeping well at night, not looking at our investments 24-7. Joseph and George, that was ultimately where Joseph was. I was spinning out, man. I wasn't sleeping for weeks. I was asking everybody all the time. Ultimately, I came to what can I control here? And if it all goes away...

If I don't owe anybody anything, then there's not going to be somebody knocking on my door and say, that's mine. Right? Whether it's a car, whether it's a house, whether it's land, whatever it is. If I don't owe anybody anything, then there's not going to be somebody. Somebody might try to come take it, but they're not going to be saying, hey, that's actually mine. Yeah. And that to me feels like the smartest hedge is I don't owe anybody anything. Let's start there. Joseph, thank you for a great conversation, man. Hope it helped.

Thank you. Have a good day. You too, man. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. 888-825-5225. What does the future hold for business?

Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system.

Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too.

Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data.

And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free.

at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Listen, I know a lot of you would rather watch paint dry in slow motion than file your taxes. But thankfully, you don't have to dread filing when you've got Ramsey Smart Tax. It comes packed with everything you need to file online before the big deadline. That means all major federal forms and deductions are covered

This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Bologna. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Danielle joins us up next in Milwaukee. Danielle, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can John and I help? Well, I'm calling about a question regarding paying for my father's phone bill. Basically, my dad...

uh, lives below the poverty line, um, due to his own life choices. I've helped him financially throughout the years. Uh, and currently I am just paying his phone bill and I, I want to help him. And this has been a way that I've been able to do so, but he has been making some questionable choices and, uh,

I don't want to parent him. And I just, I'm not sure if this is the right thing for me to be doing. Yeah, I'm happy to give more color to that. It's, you know, family, it's kind of complicated. Yeah, it always feels so complicated when you're in it. And in Georgia, in my seat, it's usually way less complicated. Can I ask you a hard question? Yes. Are you paying his phone bill for him or for you? Yeah.

For him. I know, but are you paying the bill for him or for you? Well, I guess I want him to be okay, so I guess for me in that regard. Has he listened to any of the wisdom or advice you've given him over the years? No, not really. If behavior is a language, what has he been telling you for a long, long time? Well...

I guess that he doesn't value my input. Yeah. He'll take your money. He'll take your phone bill. Cool. But when it comes to, I want to live a different life, a healthier life, a safer life, a more loving life. Yeah. I don't really care about that. I'm especially not going to take that crap from you. And then with the healthy dose of who do you think you are? I'm your dad. How long have you been chasing him? Your whole life? No. Um, I would say, um,

When my parents were married for 35 years and once they divorced, I kind of, not right away, but as he just continued to make bad choices, I sort of, unbeknownst to me, took the role of my mom. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I know. That's a weird position to be in. And while you chose to be there, he had a part in putting you there. And you have a choice also to get out of this and to say, hey, dad, listen, I can't cover your phone bill anymore.

What would happen if that were the case? What would the conversation be like? At this point, it's going to be me probably writing him a letter. I've tried to... This is the second time I wanted to go out and visit him. He lives out of state. And I don't know if he just doesn't want me to visit him or what, but he always has a way of just bringing... We don't always agree on kind of

everything right and I'm fine to just leave those things out of the conversation but he has a way of bringing them up and just Would you call this relationship transactional at this point?

No, it's not. I mean, he was a really good dad to me growing up, and he's not a bad person. He just makes really bad choices and doesn't seem to learn from them. So that's why it's, you know, he's not a bad guy. Well, it's not about his character, but I'm saying the relationship right now is I pay the bill, he doesn't really want to see me, he doesn't want much to do with me, but please keep paying my phone bill, and thank you. Yeah.

it's more nuanced than that, but I mean, yeah, I realize I'm calling you guys asking you for your advice. I mean, is it more nuanced than that? Yeah, I really, I really think it is. I mean, he, you know, expressed that he was excited to see me, but then he's telling me, you know, he's, I don't want to get into, I don't want to take too much of your time, but you know, he's, he went through, he's not even technically divorced, um, the third time, but

He is separated, I guess, legally. And...

He started these, like, some kind of dating site. I don't know what he's doing. And there's been, you know, people he's been talking to. And, you know, I thought all of that was behind him now, but he just shared with me that he's been talking to, like, 30-year-old women on some weird encrypted app. I just don't understand. And now I feel like he's putting my own safety, like, with my phone account, like, linked to his in jeopardy. And I'm just, like...

Yeah. Your gut instinct is right. And there's more to it than this too. Yeah. Yeah. I think if to circle back to the first question I asked you is, are you paying this phone bill so that you can sleep at night knowing I tried to preserve my relationship with my dad as I watched him slowly, the man that I love, the good dad that I had, um, as I watched him slowly implode his life. Um,

getting involved with all these people, getting married a bunch of times. Now he's just slowly just unwinding. Often we try to hang on because something inside of us says that if there's just, we say the right thing or we can just give the right amount of data or just do the right, nice, kind thing that suddenly they'll be like, oh, amazing. Hey, by the way, can you help me with my love life and my money? And unfortunately, this call is not going to come.

And so if you want to make, if you want to pay his phone bill and just pay his phone bill and make that a part of your life and, and not hope for that, that will have an R a relational ROI on it. Great. Knock your lights out. George and I just say, make sure you're not putting on a credit card. Right. Um,

If you're just tired of being involved with all this and now you're wondering what he's even doing on an encrypted app that's linked to you and your bank account. Dude, I'm going to write him a letter and say, hey, I'm going to step away from this. Yeah. And then you're going to have to spend some time in this scary black hole called grief. It's not supposed to be like this. Your parents are married for 34 years.

Yeah. Here's the spark notes. If a cell phone bill is propping up the relationship and this is one Jenga piece that knocks the whole thing down, there was never a relationship there. And that's the hardest, scariest part to face is that whatever was, I know he's a good guy. He was a great dad, but it's changed. The relationship's changed. And I think that's the hardest part to grieve is the guy he was and the guy he is now. And I know you know this, but I feel compelled to say it. You didn't do anything wrong, Danielle.

You've been a good daughter. I've certainly tried. I know, but there's not a thing you could have done differently in a conversation you didn't have. He's your dad. He's a grown man. He's way older than you. He's made adult choices. Like we told the previous caller, there's just nothing harder than watching someone you love flush their life away, especially when you're standing there on the bank of the river saying, I can help, I can help. And they're like, no, I'll just stay here.

It's heartbreaking. What is his portion of the cell phone bill? I'm just curious. What's the financial amount? Maybe like $70 or something like that. So if it was on him to cover $70 from now on, do you think he could do it? No, I think he'd have to go back to a flip phone. That's the best thing he could do. That sounds like a great idea for him. Honestly, ever since he got this iPhone and he's had more time on his hands, I just don't even understand what's going on over there. Yeah.

Yeah, it might keep him out of jail. I think it's a good idea. Seriously? Yeah. Something's weird. Yeah. I'm so sorry, Daniel. That is not a fun thing to deal with. The theme so far of the show, John, has been you cannot change people. No. No matter what you want to give them or cover for them, it's not going to make the relationship better and it's not going to solve their problems. You can create good boundaries. You can be graceful and merciful and forgiving. Yeah.

And then you can do the next right thing for you and for your relationship. And sometimes that's walking away. Sometimes that's just saying, I'm taking my hands off the wheel. You're driving. Cool. I'll be here when you're ready. More of your calls coming up. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right. You've heard me say this a thousand times, and I'm going to keep saying it. You're worth being well. And I believe therapy can help.

Right now, BetterHelp is offering 90% off your first week of therapy now through March 31st. So if you've been on the fence, this is your chance to try therapy for a fraction of the cost. Because let's be honest, we all spend money on things we hope will make us feel better, like new clothes, organic groceries, gym memberships. But when it comes to actually digging in and getting real with our mental and emotional well-being, we hesitate.

We pause. And I know actually going to therapy can seem like a huge first step, but please hear me. Your mental and emotional health are just as important as your physical health. BetterHelp makes therapy more accessible than you think because it's online, so you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost.

Your well-being is worth it, and this offer makes it easier than ever to start. 90% off your first week of therapy now through March 31st, 2025. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get started. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.

I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships. That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships Tour to a city near you. Join me and Dr. John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever.

Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at ramseysolutions.com slash tour before they're gone. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel. My co-host today is Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Our question of the day is brought to you by YRefi. If you're in default with private student loans, contact YRefi. Obviously, we don't encourage letting your loans get into default. We teach responsibility. But these amounts have some of you really struggling out there, and this is a path forward. YRefi was created for people in your situation. So go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states.

All right, today's question comes from Scott in Michigan. Scott writes, I have been in the auto industry for almost six years. I started as a mechanic at a large dealership, moved up to service advisor, and recently was promoted to sales consultant. I bring in about $150,000 a year. After reading George Campbell's Breaking Free from Broke and the chapter about car loans, I felt guilty for being a part of this industry. Way to go, George. Sorry. You guilt peddler.

I've always thought of myself as an honest salesperson, and I don't just sell people a car. I try to educate my customers into making the right decision, but yet I feel very convicted after reading this chapter. Thanks again, George. I went to college for business management, but dropped out so that I wouldn't accumulate any more debt, and I've been gazelle intense so that me and my wife and kids think I've gone crazy. I fear that if I pursue another career, I would not be able to earn what I currently make because the auto industry is the one I know.

Is it hypocritical to continue to work in an industry that keeps people in debt while working my butt off to get myself out of debt? Hey, Dave, can I come work for you? Honestly, we are hiring, Scott. So we have a lot of sales roles open at ramsaysolutions.com slash careers, but that's for another day. To your question.

Truthfully, here's my take. John may have a completely different take. I feel like we need Scott in the car industry. We need people with integrity who are leading people to the right decision who aren't scumburgers. And it's easy to generalize an entire industry as this is a...

gross industry. But I think what Scott's doing here is noble. It's moral. There's no issues with it. If you are in the lending department and it eats away at your soul, you need to get out of there. But as the salesperson, it's not your job to say, hey, here's the lending part. Here's the financing part. They're going to go to another guy to deal with the financing. You're there to say, hey, what is your budget?

Here's a car that is in your budget. And then if they have questions along the way, you can steer them to go, hey, this one might be better for you guys. I want you guys to walk away from here debt-free. There's nothing wrong with that as a salesperson. And yeah, you might not get as many commissions as going, you should get the car that's way too expensive because it has the sweet feature. I think we need people with integrity steering people toward that. So you think Scott can sit down with people and say, okay,

Until it eats away at his soul. What kind of money do you have? There's a soul tax to pay. I think a Corolla is a great option for you. Instead of saying, oh, they just walked in the door, let's get them in a Land Cruiser. Even though we know they can't afford the payment, right? So they may be the voice of reason. And people are adults when they buy cars, and they could always... It's not on you. So don't feel the personal responsibility of that person's decision to buy a car they can't afford. And I want to address the bottom of this. Okay.

And this is a heavy one. This idea that for whatever reason, and we live in a wild world now where because of Twitter and because of social media, we know how our bosses vote. We know who they vote for. We know what they think about this issue and that issue. And we know where they stand on this and this. Not to mention, oh, I thought I was selling cars. I didn't realize that y'all only make money on finance, right? We know so much more.

millions of people look in the mirror and say, can I be a part of this particular business for X, Y, and Z reasons? Because I've got this set of values and somewhere along the way in this chain of value hierarchies, we don't align. The question often comes up, but I won't make this kind of money.

A, I think that's a false sense of scarcity. If you've been able to work yourself up, like clearly this guy is good at what he does. He's a person, a character. He works really hard because he's moved from this position to this. He continues to get promotion. So let's let what has happened be the map forward. You'll find a new industry and you'll work really hard. You'll be a person of integrity. You'll make your way through. He's a problem solver. That's right. That's the skill set. He's clearly a good leader or they wouldn't keep moving him up.

That's number one. Number two, you always have to go back and ask yourself, what's your integrity worth? And that's a scary, hard question. That's a scary, hard question for a guy like me, right? Like what if it's in my core guts? I just thought at the end of the day, when I put my head on my pillow, I think you can get rich from airline miles. And my boss, Dave is like, you can't get rich with airline miles. I'd have to ask myself, what's it worth, right? What's it worth?

And so I think all- - But there's incongruence every day. - Right. - That you walk into. - And I just haven't been able to find a way to sleep at night when there's incongruence in your life like that. And so I think all of us have to ask that hard question and then go ask, all right, what must be true? But your kids will feel that lack of congruency. Your spouse will feel that lack of congruency.

your body will feel that lack of congruency. So you might think you're just plugging along, making such and such paycheck, but man, it will burn the rest of your life to the ground. It's tough. It's tough. So if you can be a change agent here, Scott, and stay in it and make peace with it and not eat away at your soul, do it and keep helping people. But if you can't, like John's saying, then you got to make the move out of here. And we both believe you have the skill set to move into any other industry and know that the other industry, they probably also sell stuff that someone can finance. Right.

So can I tell you that there was a pivotal moment in my life from a friend and extraordinary mentor of mine. His name is Dr. Richard Beck. He's a psychology professor. He's an experimental psychologist. He's a genius, literal. One day I was sitting with him and some things had happened to some students and I was really struggling with it, whether the university's response was appropriate. It didn't sit well with me. So I went and sat with him and here's what he said.

He said, John, like, I get your tension here. I get the angst. And I think you're right. Like, as a mentor, as a friend, I want you to know you're free to go. Like, you're right. And then he said, just know that if you leave, those students will still be here. And if everybody runs out the door, just because, quote unquote, because they can. Right. And that particular interaction shifted.

So now I want to find places where maybe I can offer an alternative voice or maybe I can say, well, let's think of it this way. And where can we find, where can we, like, I love it. You said this, Scott, this may be the greatest place for you. You may be the one salesperson that continues to say, you know what? I don't think you can afford the Camry, but the Corolla is an amazing car. Let's go check it out.

and that you're the person constantly getting poked fun at by your fellow salespeople because your commission checks are smaller because you keep directing people to cars that they can actually afford. You know what? The new lot is not for you guys. Let's go over here to the certified new lot because I think this is going to be a better option for you and your family long term. What if you were that guy?

You slowly, painfully changed the culture in that. And people kept coming back to you because they trusted you. Well, that word of mouth alone, I'm going to go, hey, you need to go see this guy, Scott. Go see Scott. He's the good guy. He'll tell you the truth. It's so much easier to stand out in an industry filled with scum. Yes. You're the one good guy. So if there's a place where your boss votes differently, okay, or...

What if you stayed? What if you stayed? And what if you said, let's think about it this way. What if you became over time a voice of reason, a voice of a new perspective, and you continue to show up and continue to show up? I think that's how the world changes. If everybody heads for the exits when it gets hard and scary and uncomfortable, nothing changes. In fact, everything gets more polarized and everything gets harder. And so ask yourself that question, Scott and everybody listening. What if you stayed? What if you stayed and you just began to

slowly offer different ways to see the world. I think that's how the world changes. Well, and especially in this industry, cars are amoral. Now, if this was a product that is inherently gross, if he's working for a payday or a title pawn, I'd say, all right, get out of there. That whole place is scummy. Or like Dan, the cocaine dealer. Yes. It's a car. Suddenly I can't. It's a car. It has utility. So...

This was the choose your own adventure, Scott. We're not going to tell you to do one thing or the other, but you need to follow your conscience and your values. And the fact that you wrote in maybe tells me it might be time for a different career shift. Who knows? There you go. Or you come here, work for Ramsey. And thanks for reading the book, by the way. I didn't know I was that convincing, John. That's amazing. Yeah. And you've convinced me on some things. Really? Yeah. To do what? Name one. Put them on the spot. I got Venmo.

Oh, that's right. You convinced me to get Venmo. You've almost convinced me. I was in Pennsylvania two nights ago and I reached out to you and said, hey, will you...

Sean doesn't know how to do like Instacart or like food delivery. Well, you sent ice cream as a surprise to my family. And I said, John, I'm not your personal assistant. I'd be happy to do that for my hourly rate, which you can't afford. I can't afford. You can't afford that. I can't afford that. But I would do it as a friend. But you did convince me to get Venmo and I may get Instacart? Baby steps. I think I'm going to get Instacart. Let's take it one day at a time, John. I'm going to. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Welcome 21st century. Here I come. This is the Ramsey Show.

Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. The truth is you get to decide what happens with your money. And if you want to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The EveryDollar Budget app makes it easy for you to plan every dollar you've got coming in and every dollar going out. Plus, it's free. So no more excuses. Go download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play today.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. The Employee Benefit Research Institute recently did a study asking how many people have a million dollars saved for retirement. According to their research, only 3.2 of Americans have a million dollars or more in their tax advantage accounts, like a 401k and IRAs. 58% of Americans have less than $10,000 saved in their retirement accounts.

Dude, that's dark stuff. I had no idea it was that bad. 60%. Six out of 10 Americans basically could do a month and a half in a retirement home. That's it. As a listener of The Ramsey Show, are you staying on track with the baby steps to reach your financial goals? Here's the deal. Take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you.

simply head to the show notes, click on the link titled, Are You On Track With The Baby Steps and complete the free quiz. If you are one of the six out of 10 Americans that have less than 10 grand,

There is a light for you, but you got to get on it, right? You have to, you got to begin to act differently. George, that would freak me out. That would scare me to death. Yeah, and people think it's a life sentence. They think their DNA inherently has this in them where they go, well, I'm just going to, I'm a broke person, John. You can change. You can just snap your fingers and go, I don't want to live like this. I want to change my family tree. I don't have to retire broke. And so this quiz will help you start to take the next step, figure out where you're really at. And if you just look at,

basic demographic data. This same six out of 10 who have less than 10,000, I'll go as high as 70%, 80% that are, that are fragile. It's about the same stat that are living paycheck to paycheck. But also everybody knows that there's, they're ringing the bell saying, Hey, uh,

Your Social Security is going to be less than. We're not solvent here in the next 10, 15, 20 years. By 2034, they're going to reduce the benefit by 27%. It already wasn't that high. It's a slow car crash coming. You've got to be your own financial planner. Act today. Act today. Act today. Check out the show notes. Are you on track with the baby steps? Complete the free quiz. Stare down this anxious moment in your life and begin to do something different.

Let's go out to Stamford, Connecticut and talk to James. What is up, James? Everything above the nose, John and George. How's this day finding you? Excellent. The same. What's up?

Excellent. I need some advice. We're going to tread a little bit carefully because I am trying my best to thread the needle with my mother-in-law. She keeps giving financial and career advice to my family, specifically my wife, that do not work for our family situation and really do not work in 2024. So James...

You do not have a problem with your mother-in-law. She is your proxy ward. You have a problem with your wife. I would think that you are probably correct. I am worried that my wife is going to listen to her mother. My mother-in-law was able to raise four children in the Midwest through the 80s and 90s without working. She, I don't believe, has ever worked a 40-hour-a-week job in her life. She...

couple of days, you know, helping out at this nursery school, a couple of days here. So what do you disagree on with your mother-in-law? What does she want your wife to do? Stay at home? Well, yes, basically all of the, uh, advice that she's giving involve things around, we have two children under six and it's comments along the lines of, you know, when both the kids are out of daycare, my wife works as a daycare teacher as well. Uh,

When the kids are out of daycare, you can leave that job and just teach music lessons. I make $60 an hour teaching music lessons, and that's great, but that doesn't make up for the income that we need in order to live where we do it. Here's the thing, James. I have the greatest mother-in-law who's ever lived. She's amazing. And I expect my mother-in-law to give the advice that she sees fit for how she wants the world to work.

I acknowledge that too. But when it comes to the life that me and my wife have to build for ourselves, she doesn't get a vote. And so your mother-in-law can say whatever she wants. Good for her. That's awesome. It's amazing. She's not the problem here. The problem here is you and your wife are not on the same page. And so it doesn't matter what your mother-in-law is saying.

It matters that you look at your wife and your wife says, hey, I want to stay home. And you say, we can't afford to do that. Or we can, but here's what it's going to cost. You have to sell the car. We can't live in this particular house or in this particular neighborhood. Yeah, and at this point, we're having to have this conversation about every six to nine months or so. And I've tried showing my wife the math and that it does not work. So, James, I'm hearing your wife wants to stay home. If she could have it her way, she would stay home. Is that true?

I think that she gets the impression that she is working to pay for daycare and nothing else, and that once the children are out of daycare, that that need might disappear. And then she wants to stay home? I think so. I think part of it may be a byproduct to that's the home environment that she was raised in, so she has seen it work, but that...

I don't think is realistic or sustainable. I want you to reverse engineer y'all's dream that you decide together. And that might mean, okay, here's the math of it. We can't do this right now. Here's why. But if she says, hey, my dream is really I want to stay home and you want to support that dream, then you go, let's do the budget. What's it going to take? Okay, I need to do this many more music lessons. We need to do this. We need to cut our lifestyle by this to get in a financial place in order to do this.

So I think she's the wow, you're the how, and you're going, well, we have no way to actually accomplish this. But then there's also the part of you don't want this to happen right now. So this is really, like John said, this is between you and your wife. She wants to stay home. You don't want her to stay home. Take the mother-in-law out of it. Yeah, you keep crafting all these stories and imaginations like, well, it's probably because of this and maybe it's because – it doesn't matter. Just forget all the story parts. Just sit down and look at the woman that you've made humans with.

Look at the woman that you said, I do till death do us part. Like, what kind of life do we want to have? What do we want this house to feel like when we get home every day? How much are you making a year, James? Just you. Just myself, about $60,000. And are you doing music lessons full time? No, Mother-in-law does music. My wife, no. She is a music teacher by trade. What are you doing full time? I am a program director for a medium-sized nonprofit. Okay. Okay.

So I think we also need to go, okay, if this is in the future, my wife staying home, we're going to be a one income family. What changes do I need to make? What education do I need to get? What career moves do I need to make in order to sustain a good life for my family? And that's the part that I think scares you is this involves you having to change too.

Or at least it involves y'all having to have a truthful conversation about, hey, what do I want? What do I really want? I really want to work at this job. I love my nonprofit work. And I know I make half of what I could make in the for-profit world, but I feel valued and loved here. And then your wife looks across the table and says, I really want to stay at home with our kids. I see what happens in daycares. I want to be with our kids.

Okay, now we have a desires challenge. Both of us are being honest. Both of us on the table. Now we're just going to look at them at math does not care about what we want. Math is just math. So let's look at the math problem we have here. And maybe it's for three years. I'm going to stay at this nonprofit, but I'm going to work an extra job so that you can stay home because I know that's important to you.

And maybe it's, you know what, for three years, I'm going to keep working at daycare because at least I get to see the kids half the day. And we're not netting a lot of new income. But this mission that you're called to at this nonprofit is really important. But now y'all are actually talking substantively. You're being honest with one another and you're putting your hearts and minds and souls on the table like you promised each other you would at your wedding. And your mother-in-law doesn't get a vote. But right now when your wife says, well, my mom says that I, that's her problem.

knowing if she just tells you what she wants, you're going to blow by her with a spreadsheet. And when your wife says something and you go, well, it's just your mother-in-law speaking, that's you not being able to say, I really love my work. It means something to me. Do you get what I'm saying? Let's just take mother-in-law out of the equation. Let's just talk directly with your wife. Is that possible? Yeah, yeah.

Most of the time, you sound like a spreadsheet guy. You can pull up a spreadsheet and you can make the math work or you can be real honest about it not working. I want you to sit down with your wife and talk about emotions and feelings, which is maybe a scary thing. Here's how I feel about this. Here's what I want. I feel like your mother-in-law has a seat at our table, at dinner table. I feel like your mom has a seat in our bedroom. I don't want her in here anymore.

I want it to be us. What world do we want to create? Thank you so much for the call, my brother. This is The Ramsey Show.

You're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.