Stop Obsessing Over Pennies While Ignoring the Plan
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Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw, and we are here to take your calls and help you take the right next step with your money and your life. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. Carrie is our first victim here in Bend, Oregon. What's going on, Carrie?

Hi, you guys. How can we help? So I have, it's kind of an emotional question, but basically our brother-in-law has died

not done what he was expected to do as the executor of a will that we would be involved in. And it's got to the point where we would need a lawyer. So that is my question. Should we pursue a lawsuit even if we don't have the money for a lawyer?

But we would probably have the money once the lawsuit was settled. Well, you got to tell us more. Make your case for us here. Okay. In front of Judge Warshaw. My father-in-law passed away in 2018 and left everything to his wife, which is my stepmother-in-law. She passed away in 2020, leaving everything to her son, which is a stepbrother, and then...

and then two other brothers. The stepbrother that's the executor of the will went and sold everything in the house, sold the house, the land, all of it. Okay. Behind our back. That was not the stated wishes of the will? No. What were the stated wishes? That the three beneficiaries were her son and then the other two brothers. And is one of those your husband? Yes.

Yes. Okay. How big was this estate? Do you have any idea? The house sold for about, it was listed at $795,000. Okay. Anything else? Everything that was in the house, tractors, cars, everything. I mean, he had two acres. What do you think it was all worth?

Speaking to a lawyer, they said it would probably be about $100,000 for everything in the house because we don't have any documentation for it. So we're talking about almost $900,000. Yes. So you'd be owed about $300,000 at the end of this if all things had gone to plan. Yes, minus the back taxes that were paid when the house sold. How much was that? Not very much, less than $50,000. Okay. Okay.

But he also did a complete remodel to the house that we didn't know about either. I don't know if that is in the consideration or not. So let me just make sure I understand this. The will said everything was supposed to be split three ways amongst the brothers. One brother said, forget that. I'm going to sell all of this myself. Yep. And then where is that money? Like he, so he sold the estate, he sold the property. Where is the money? Do you know?

He's got it. And how long, over what period of time did all of this happen? Well, I accidentally came upon the house being listed on Zillow when I was looking at land prices in that area. I saw the house that my father-in-law built on Zillow. When?

This has been going on a little bit before the household in October. So a couple of months before that. October of last year, 2024. Yes. Okay. So when that happened, did you guys go to him and say, oh, so you just sold everything like, okay, so you're going to divvy it up three ways. And then he said what?

Well, he is not talking to us. He won't answer calls. He won't return anything from his lawyer. And we found out that the only thing that his lawyer has for us is a cashier's check for $5,000. And you said, what's this for? And he said, what? They didn't say. And so then did you then go to whoever the lawyer was who first, you know, read the will and said, this is the executor. You went to him. And what did he say?

He the my brother-in-law won't return any phone calls to the lawyer.

Got it. OK, so now you guys basically on the run. So you guys then need to go to a judge and say, hey, the executor of the will is not carrying out the wishes of the will. And he is keeping all the money for himself when the will clearly states. I feel like, yeah, he essentially committed fraud. So what you'd have to do is petition in probate court to force the accounting of this, force him to show up, force him to deal with this. I don't know. He may have spent all this money.

Exactly. So we just – I don't know that you're going to get what you're hoping to get out of it.

I mean, it sucks that this happened. Yeah, over five years. I'm just trying to understand the five-year play here because, and I don't say this to sound any type of way, but if I know I have an inheritance from grandpa and grandpa died last year, I feel like I would have already known, forget five years, I would be wondering, okay, when are we selling the estate? When are we getting the money? So I want to know more about that. I'm not trying to...

Yeah. Say anything negative. We're not defending him, but there's a lot of other pieces here that we're confused about. Like was the estate officially closed in probate court? What happened with probate? Well, the house was my father-in-law's that he built this house on two acres. And it was just an agreement between all of us that we weren't going to do anything right away because –

A written agreement or just a phone call? No, no, just talking. Okay. That we didn't want to sell anything because we would like one of the three of us to buy the other two out and keep the property. Got you. Okay. But he went behind our back, and we knew nothing about the remodel, anything. He was still talking to us about how it would be ostracized.

Awesome that we moved there and things like that. Completely lying to us. Okay. Okay. And what was your timeline for moving into the house? Because again, we're talking five years. Was this like on like, what was the timeline in you all's mind for saying, here's when we're going to buy you out? Here's when that's going to take place?

When I was looking on Zillow, we were getting prices for the land to find out how much the land was going for. So we knew how much to we would be paying him for us to move back there. Here's what here's the reason I'm asking these questions. I'm trying to get inside of the brain of the son in law here. No kidding. The only thought because you're the only caller on the line. Right. So the only thought that I could think.

pull up in my brain is maybe this guy was thinking, hey, they said they're going to buy me out. They haven't bought me out yet. Who knows what's on fire in his life? Maybe he thought, whatever, they're not going to buy me out. I'm going to force the sale of this by just selling it myself. I don't know. I'm just trying to think what could be going on here because this is a extent, like five years is a big timeline here. So I'm trying to figure out what could have gotten lost in translation. Either way, I think the first advice we gave stands, which is-

You go in front of the probate judge and say, hey, here's what's going on. And do you know if you have to pay an attorney to do that for you? Because that's that's my main question. If we should pay attorney fees for such. Well, I would have gone through the attorney who was dealing with the executor, but it sounds like you can't find him and he's not talking. So now, yeah, I'd be calling up that attorney.

circuit court or whoever, whoever you've been in contact with and saying, what do I have to do to get in front of a judge? I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know. And I've never had to deal with this. I say, what do I have to do to get in front of a judge? Because the executor of the will is not doing what the will says. And then go from there. I'm guessing, yeah, it's going to cost you a little bit. And it's going to cost you your peace. It's going to cost you your time and it's going to cost you your money. And so I would just tread lightly before you pursue this for the next five years, all to find out there's nothing there.

And that's going to really add insult to injury here. So I would try to get all the evidence you can, do all the homework you can, get all the family members you can involved, get a copy of the will, get documentation of everything you can, all the communication with him or lack thereof, and then see what happens. But it might be worth at least reaching out to an attorney to see what the next step would be. ♪

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Nathan is up next in Bozeman, Montana. What's going on, Nathan? How can we help today?

Hi, I was calling in because I'm trying to figure out my next steps on trying to build wealth and spend time with my daughter after my wife has left. Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry. When did she leave? About six weeks ago. Is this a very sudden thing or were there marital issues beforehand and you saw this coming?

There was a few marital issues, but I feel like she left very prematurely. We hadn't even been married a year yet when she had left. Wow. So you have a young daughter? How young is the daughter? I actually have a daughter from a previous relationship. Got it. She's 12, almost 13. Okay. So married less than a year. Wife takes off. Um,

Is the daughter living with you full time? Yeah, I have full custody of her. Okay. So are you filing divorce? Because I wouldn't touch much of this until a divorce because some of it, I'm guessing some of it's in her name, talking about the debt. Mostly a lot of debts in my name, but there is like a car that she took out dead on before we got married. Is that in her name alone or are you on it too?

Uh, it's just on my name, but I did co-sign for a truck for her brother. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're on the hook for that one. If he doesn't pay, is he making payments? He's making payments. Yes. I've also talked to him about, um,

him refinancing into his name. So I'm hoping that he can go through with that. Yeah. Good luck. I mean, he couldn't get the loan without you before. So that's scary. Chances of that happening might be slim unless something's changed for him recently. Yeah. I think the first step is if this marriage is over, like ended officially and figure out, is she going to, is this going to be a situation where you guys can sit down together and figure out how to just divide this right down the middle? Are you going to have to get lawyers involved? Um,

But I would not start on this until you know how it's going to land because I wouldn't want you to end up paying something you didn't need to pay or think that something wasn't going to go on you that does end up going on you, that sort of thing. Yeah. Do you have contact with her? No, she left the phone and hasn't talked to me since. She left her phone. Are you sure that she left and somebody didn't, something foul play didn't go on? That sounds kind of odd. Yeah.

Got it. Okay. Okay. Well, there's going to have to be some level of communication. I don't know if that's going to have to be through a lawyer or if you can't get in touch with her, but we've got to get this thing settled. Yeah.

Because there's no legal separation right now, even. You guys are still totally legally married? We are totally legal married. And I'm trying to do things the biblical way. I hope that there's reconciliation, but there was quite a few problems with parenting and whatnot. And she's with another guy right now. That's not looking too good. What's your total debt? I would say...

The debt that I have for my car and credit cards is about $4,500, and the truck is $28,000. Okay, that you co-signed for. Correct. And what's your question specifically today that we can help with? Well, I'm...

emotionally I'm trying to move on and I have a job that's about 40 hours a week. And I also do like Instacart and spark, which is like delivering groceries to people. And I don't want to spend all my time working because I want to spend time with my daughter, but I'm trying to also find that, that good, uh, comparison. Cause I know that she's going through a hard time and, um,

Well, I think that we hear this question a lot, which is, I prioritize my family. Is it bad to work more? Is this a negative thing? But I do think that when we think about the priority of our family, there's kind of like subcategories underneath that. What does that mean to prioritize and take care of my family? And part of that is I go to work and I make sure that I have...

financial stability so I can provide stability and peace in our life. That's part of taking time and that's part of prioritizing your family. You could say that also spending time with them falls into that priority, right? But it's not the only thing. Time is not the only way that we prioritize our family. It is one of the many ways. So I think if you can view it like that,

It'll kind of free you up to realize, okay, the time I do spend with her, I'm going to make that very quality. But it's also so important for me to go out and make sure I have the stable job, make sure I'm working, paying off this debt, able to stay in whatever living situation you have, all of that sort of thing. Yeah, I'm in public housing right now, like state funded housing. And see, that's proven my point. Like we got to get out of that because that there's no, you know, that doesn't feel stable at all. What's your income?

It's about $33,000 with my mom's full-time job. What's your full-time job? It's working as a mental health technician in a child's hospital. Okay. What's the upward mobility look like in that field? Because that feels awfully low for a full-time job at a reputable facility.

Right. I think there's potential to move up, but I'm not sure what the pay scale looks like. Okay. That's for the long term. I think there's sort of some stages here we need to work through. One is the current urgent putting food on the table, making sure the light bills are paid. Can you cover all of your bills right now with your monthly take-home pay? Yes. And cover all the minimums on your debt payments? Yes.

I can, yeah. And then how much is left over after all that? I haven't created a budget, and that's the first thing that I need to do. I'm taking the Financial Peace University class through my church right now. We just did the first lesson. Awesome. And does your daughter know about your financial journey? Obviously she knows about Mom and what's going on there. How is she doing? What are her urgent needs? I think that it's...

that it's to be there for her kind of, that's what I feel, but I'm not sure. You know, I know that I want to build wealth and I'm trying to figure out a way to do that. But right now we're trying to survive. Yeah. Building wealth is great for the next 10 to 20 years. Right.

But right now she's got an absent dad who's just in frozen in grief right now. Yeah, I think you got to silo this a little bit into the different buckets of what's going on because right now it feels jumbled up. And I understand that because you're going through a lot financially. You're going through a lot emotionally. You're going through a lot career wise. Like there's a lot here. So there's the housing situation. Like that's a line item like of thought. Then there's the fractured marriage. That's a line item of thought.

Then there's the financial struggle. That's a line item of thought. And then there's making sure my 12-year-old daughter is okay, right? So there's all these different things that are going on. Are you speaking with anybody to help you sort through all this other than us, a professional? I am, yeah. I'm meeting with a therapist. Good. It's a Christian therapist, so...

Okay, I think you need that. I think you need somebody who's going to help you, give you some actionable steps for everything. Money does touch all of these areas, but there's a lot deeper issues that are going on that I think you need to figure out what's the priority because it's going to be very hard to tackle all of these things at once. So you need to figure out what is the top priority for me today? Totally.

to work on and what's my goal and at what point do I move on to the next thing getting off this call George I'd say the first thing is to start putting a clear end to this marriage and that looks like filing for divorce so you can start building some closure there

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade Warshaw. And look, if there's anybody who knows about student loan debt, it's me. My husband and I had $280,000 of it, but we were able to dig ourselves out and you can too. If your student loan payment and interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be the solution. Now, if you're a student loan payer,

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jade wanted to sing jump on it so badly they i did felt it the last time i tried that though i got called out they're like jade this this song is no longer like politically correct oh wow i thought it was like an fcc violation they just were like we can't do this anymore no it's just think about it and then every episode i was like yeah this song is a little sketchy wow okay good to know i'll stay away aj's in orlando up next what's going on aj

Hey, how's it going? Great. How are you? So I'm great. Me and my husband are both currently out of debt except for our mortgage, which we bought a house recently. Cool. And I know that the Ramsey program doesn't endorse ever going back into debt after you're out of debt. But we are considering taking out a loan to build a mother-in-law suite in my backyard for my 82-year-old grandmother.

Look at you trying to throw that guilt on us by saying it's a mother-in-law's favor for my 82-year-old grandmother. Okay, is she in very poor health? What's the reason for her moving in with you guys? So she's slowing down, for sure. But you don't want her in the house. You want to build her a dog house in the back.

We both have very strong personalities, and we both agree that that probably wouldn't work. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Okay, what's the in-law suite going to cost? So we think we can build something pretty nice for around $50,000 to $60,000 in our backyard. But she's going to have to come into your house for, like, everything, right? Or will she have her own entrance? So it would be her own entrance and her own kitchenette and her own kind of little garden area in the back. And, like, a shower and...

All of that? Yep. For $50,000? Yep. I've got a bridge to sell you. Are you guys doing this yourself? Are you going to just go to Home Depot and try to hammer it together? No. So we're looking at a couple of the kits that you can get. And so some of the work we might do ourselves after we have the kit to save on cost. What do you mean by kit? Yeah.

So they have like, you know, like modular home kits. So like Deltec or like, you know, like there's, there's like, it comes up a little bit cheaper because then they're not having to put the house together on site. They put the house together before and they either bring it to you or. Essentially grandma's living in a souped up shipping container. Okay. And this. Well, it would be nicer than a shipping container. Souped up. That helps. This is so that as she ages, if you need to care for her, she's on site. Is that why? Yeah.

That is the goal. So she also has, oh my gosh, I can't remember what it's called, but she gets very dizzy sometimes. And so my fear is that she falls. Vertigo? Vertigo, that is it. And if she falls, she's in Texas. And we talk every couple days on the phone, but nobody checks on her bath.

So she's in Texas. You're in Orlando. No, you're in... Yes. Okay. So is there... I'm just thinking through this. Here's where I'm thinking. A, it's debt. We're never going to say to do that. B, I'm wondering what this does to the value of your home because...

A kit doesn't sound like a great thing if I'm looking to buy somebody else's house. And then the third thing I'm wondering is if the goal is to be able to take care of her, what would it look like to just put her in an apartment that's near you?

So Orlando rent is very expensive. She also currently lives on, so it's a family ranch property that just she lives on down in Texas because nobody else lives in Texas. So I just think that like her going from living with all of this open land to putting her in an apartment would be a rough transition for her. You're squeezing her into the little kit as it is. Yeah.

But we are on an acre property. So at least we have outdoors available that she could sit outside and feel fresh air and she's not super close with her neighbor. Like you're not up against your neighbor. What would happen with her property there? Would you...

So it's currently in an undivided interest between my uncle, me, my brother, and my grandmother. Wow. That sounds super simple and not complicated at all. So what would happen? You can't sell it then because there's too many people involved? Yeah, there's too many people involved that it would make sense to sell. Would they buy her share out then? Mm-hmm. We have talked about trying to buy her share out. Wouldn't that be you buying her share out?

It would. It's not something that we can do right now because we just purchased our home. We're not looking to try and purchase that other part of the property. What about the other family members? So, okay, you guys are taking on this burden of taking care of a person who is a family member to many. Is there anybody else who's willing to kick in and say, hey, if you take grandma...

And that's, you know, you're paying a financial cost and a just lifestyle physical cost. You know, amongst the brothers and sisters, if it were my mom, there's four of us, we'd all be thinking, okay, what are we all chipping in to make sure mom's okay? So is that a conversation that you can have with siblings to figure out like, what's the budget here to make sure somebody's here to take care of her and she's, you know, got a living situation that works? Yeah.

Right. So my brother is not financially responsible in a way that he could support that. And then she has two sons, one that lives in Tennessee and another that does live in a different part of Florida, that they would never take on the cost of having her come live with them or near them. So this is all on you for the rest of her life.

Well, and it's not something that I really regret. Like this woman has poured into me. Oh, sure. This is family. Yeah. Yeah. It's something that I'm very happy. I'm just making sure you guys are good to take on that for the rest of her life, which could be 20 years. I mean, let's go back to the apartment thing because I want to clarify. I'm not saying that's it forever, but it is it until you guys can save up the 50 or 60,000 and get this kit. What's wrong with that?

I'm just trying to keep you free. That's my goal here. You guys worked really, really hard to get free. And I'm wondering, why does she have no money? So it's not that she, so she is very small expenses since the house is paid off and it's on the ranch. So it's not that she doesn't have any money. What is her income?

So she has Social Security, and I'm not sure what Social Security pays her a month. And then she had some savings that she got from my grandfather. So I'm wondering, can we use her money to fund this or cover her apartment versus you guys taking it on? Yeah, because you're going to be paying for everything from here on out. Why not use her Social Security to pay for an apartment for her or even like an assisted living community? So it's...

And we haven't gotten in depth into finances with each other yet. She would, she would contribute some of it. So like, but if we paid $60,000 for a kid, she probably wouldn't be able to afford the full $60,000. Well, how much was it? Did she get from what, how much is in her savings from her husband? That,

That I don't know. So we need to find that out. She's very frugal. Well, she might have a million sitting in there, and she's just very frugal. Yeah. She might have a dollar sitting in there. We don't know. She's too generous to be a millionaire. Well, let's...

That doesn't make sense. Hold on. Let's say this. Let's say this. If you're going to do the very generous thing that I think that you're wanting to do, which is say, hey, we want to take care of you. You've got this health issue. We want to make sure nothing happens to you. You've poured into us, like you said. Then I don't think it's unfair to say, what can you contribute? Because the truth is, as we age, it is our job to make sure that

somebody can take care of us with our own money. It's not supposed to be, the burden is not supposed to be passed to somebody else. Even if you don't feel that it's a burden, you going into debt is, and it's not a bad or wrong thing to say, grandma, what can you contribute for your own care as you age? Because we want to make sure we want to know what's there to take care of you. I would not go into debt for this, AJ. I think you want to go into debt for this.

And I think you're thinking of all the reasons why you need to instead of why you don't. My fear is you're paying for this thing long after she's gone. You still have a payment on this kid. I wouldn't do it.

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The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by YRefi. If you're buried in defaulted private student loans, you're not alone. Reach out to YRefi to see if they can build a custom plan to help you dig out. Visit YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Toby in Pennsylvania. They say, I'm seeing some mortgages advertised with only 1% down required.

Is this a feasible way to get a house if we don't have enough for a 5% or 10% down payment? Ay, ay, ay. You owe me a Coke. Wow. Jinx. These just break my heart. It's just these too-good-to-be-true advertisements where they go, hey. And they're everywhere. It's like, bad credit? No problem. Come take out a loan at 98% interest. It's fine. Yeah. That's kind of the vibe with these. Yeah, it is. And...

Think about it. You know, you want to make when you buy a house, you want to make money at the table immediately. Right. It's it makes you feel good. All of it's good. And any money that you're putting down, that is less that you're paying a month. Right. So let's not forget that. I think sometimes people think that like the down payment is some sort of like.

consequence you have to pay for like getting the house. It's like, you got to pay the down payment. You can take out a hundred percent on the loan. Like that's, that's not a win. Like that's not a prize that you get. So I think reframing it in our minds that 0% down or 1% down is not a prize. It's actually putting you in a negative position, not negative, but in a less favorable position when you buy this house.

And so that's part of it. You know, we want to know that there's equity there right when we move in that gives us peace of mind. And the bigger part is, if you're not putting anything down, I want to know what this payment is getting ready to be. Because when we're putting money down, we're making that payment lower and lower and lower, which is it's a smaller and smaller percentage of our world and our monthly budget, which is what we're aiming for. So

So the question I would have for you is why do you want to put 0% down? Because if you're telling me you can't afford to put 5% to 10% down, you're also telling me you can't afford a home. Because what I find all the time, and this is the sad part, people will go in and buy a house for $300,000 or $400,000. They can't afford the payment.

And then when something like the AC breaks for $3,000 or $5,000, they can't afford it and they go into debt for it. So you got to make sure your mind is right. Home ownership is an expensive endeavor. And it's more than just the monthly payment. I mean, that is definitely the starting point. But this is something, it's your biggest asset you're going to have. And you want to make sure it's a blessing and not a burden. And if you go to that thing and say, hey, I can't afford 5%, I'm sorry to tell you, you just can't afford to buy yet. Yeah.

And there's a ton of red tape and very strict rules to even qualify for any of these. And even if you do, guess what? They're going to get you a different way with a crazy high interest rate, with tons of fees built into the loan costs somewhere else that you're not seeing because you're not paying attention. You're just starry-eyed. You've got private mortgage insurance to pay. That's right. And I've never seen this work out where someone's like, this was a great idea. We can totally afford the mortgage. It's usually broke people trying to get into a house before they're financially ready and

And they see these advertisements, which if it's being advertised, that's probably a sign to you to step away. And I hate to say it, George, but you make an excellent point, which is so true. A lot of times these deals are marketed to folks who truly can't afford it. And it's like it's marketed as your way in or your window in. But really, they...

And they're kind of like treating you like a sucker. It's like, this guy will fall for this. We can get them to go for this because they're so desperate. Right. And kind of knowing. They prey on these people. It's borderline predatory. A lot of these USDA loans, FHA loans, even VA loans. Hey, veterans, zero percent down. Oh, gosh. And you're like, kill you with the fees. You're going to cause them. You're going to causing financial harm because they're getting into a home they can't afford. But they think they can because the lender said they could. That's right. Yeah.

That's right. Stay away. Just beware. Just beware. Don't let anybody prey on you. You're not desperate. You're not behind. You're running your race. And when you, it's you against you. So when you hit that milestone of buying the house, that was when you were supposed to cross that finish line. Just remember that. Yeah. Don't let a lender tell you when it's time to buy a house. You decide. Sage is up next in San Antonio, Texas. What's going on, Sage?

Hey, how's it going? I had a question, basically. I'm 25. I just had twins two weeks ago or three weeks ago. And I actually had a stroke last week, a small one, but I'm doing better now and I'm back at work, actually. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, I also have a toddler. He's two. And that

That being said, about two years ago when my son was first born, I got into a really horrible financial decision. This was before I knew the Dave Ramsey show and everything that y'all preach about. I got a car for my wife because we needed two vehicles. I was working out of town. And when I say I have a horrible interest rate, it's horrible. It's 22%.

Man.

Another thing being said, I did recently get approved to get refinanced at a lower interest rate. Still not great, but it's at 13%. I'll take it. So I'm basically asking if I should refinance it or just go ahead and do a voluntary repossession. Why can't you sell it? How far underwater are you? It's pretty bad. The vehicle is worth $7,500, and I owe about $1,800.

What other debt do you have?

I have a credit card I owe $400 on. I'm actually going to pay that off today. And then I have my truck, which I owe $7,000 on. The truck loan, it is a low interest rate because I did a collateral loan on it. We moved into a house renting it, and it was... What's the truck worth?

The truck's worth pretty much what I owe on it. It's worth about $9,500. And then I have a vehicle that is paid off, another truck. So the reason I was debating voluntary repossession of the Jeep was I would give her the truck that I currently owe on. It's a nicer truck, big back seat. It'll fit all three of the kids, the double stroller in the back.

And it's got the best ACI I've ever had. Why can't you drive the paid-off truck and sell the truck with the loan on it? Yeah, that's what I'm currently doing. I'm currently driving my paid-off vehicle for work. I'm a welder. And then my other truck, it's a... You said there's $2,000 in equity in that one. Yeah, I could probably, if I were to sell this one, the paid-off one, I could probably get about $6,000 or $7,000 for it. So why can't you sell that one and drive the one that's got $7,000 to go?

Because it's kind of a funny situation with that one. That one, I don't necessarily make the payment on it, if that makes sense. I have 12 siblings, and one of my younger brothers is actually making the payment on it every month. So he pays the insurance. He pays the payment every month. It was to kind of help him out in a sense and to kind of get rid of that payment for me. How is that helping him out? Well, because he's making a payment on a car he doesn't drive. Is he on it, or did you guys co-sign together? No.

Okay, this financial inbreeding needs to stop. This is chaos, what you guys have done to your family's finances. Yeah, it's kind of a sticky situation. He's 18, and he was

He went out and about, and he was going to be in the same situation I was in. He called me for advice today. He was about to. I said, man, that's when you want to call for advice. So let's not go down. Let's not trace that rabbit too far. So the car is supposed to go to him. There's $2,000 in equity in it. He's been paying the note. Can you just get this out of your hair and just go?

Yeah. So that's our next step with the bank. We're actually talking to the bank about getting the truck that I have the loan on out of my name and financing it into his name. The only situation with that is because he's only 18. They're wanting to give him a lot higher interest rate. Okay. But that's not your problem. You need to give him the ultimatum of, hey, this weekend, we either go and move this into your name or I'm keeping it and I'm doing what I will with it. Like,

that ends this weekend. That's what I'm doing. And what's your household income right now? Is wife staying home with the kids? Yeah, she's a stay-at-home mom. I make about currently probably $5,000 a month net. Okay.

You guys have a lot of car in your life. You either need to save up the difference that you're underwater on, or you need to go get a loan for the difference to lower your debt amount. I don't know that you qualify for that, but do not do a voluntary repo. It's going to destroy your financial life. You're going to sell it at auction for pennies versus what you could sell it for, and then you're still going to owe the difference. Do not do this.

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From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ramsey personality Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Be brave. Call us. We'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Haley's going to kick us off in Huntsville, Alabama. What's going on, Haley? Hi, how are you? Doing great. What's going on in your world?

So we are about just over $60,000 in debt and we are wondering how we can get ourselves out of this situation and what the next steps are. How'd you get into it? Bad choices, bad decisions. What kind of debt is it? Auto, loans, some hospital bills and a little bit of credit card. Can you break it out for us by amount for each of those categories so we kind of see what we're dealing with?

Yes, we have 44,000, just over 44,000 in car loans. How many cars? Two. Okay. Is it split even like 20 and 22 or what is it?

Oh, no. Mine still has $26,000 left and my husband's we just got. And it has about $18,000. Okay, gotcha. Okay, what else? And then we got about three loans combined. That's about $13,400. Okay. Just personal loans? Two were kind of personal loans and one was a shed. Okay. So $13,000 in loans. What else?

Then about $750,000 in credit cards, and then hospital bills is almost $2,000. Okay. Cool. What's your household income? Together we bring home about $90,000 a year. Awesome. Let's take home. Okay, good. The car that you just got, your husband's, is that still worth something since you just took out that loan? It's worth more than $18,000? Yeah.

Well, Kelly Blue booked it and it says it's about worth $12,000. So somehow it's gone down. Oh, gosh. I just got it. Did you roll over? Did you roll over bad equity? No. Negative? I got it myself. I got it as a surprise to him because I started working because I've been a stay-at-home mom. So I got really excited making money and made a bad decision. Okay. So what happened then? Because, you know, you've been in this mindset of

The person who just bought this car is now the person who's calling. So what happened that triggered you to go, wait a minute, this is not good? Kind of just seeing it all together and I don't know, something was going through me. I guess I got a little excited because I was finally making money that I made versus him. And I guess I got excited and thought he deserved something nice.

He loved it. He's quite different from me. I don't think he cares as much about the debt as I do. That could pose a problem for this journey you're about to embark on, right? Yeah, because we're going to suggest some extreme changes, and he's got to be on board with that. Do you think he could get on board? I already told him, y'all are going to hit on my head. Y'all are going to tell us to probably sell some stuff. And I was like, I already know what they're going to say. But what's he think to that?

He usually just agrees with me. Okay. All right. Would he agree with you to sell these cars to get out of this debt? Yeah, because you'd be taking back the gift you just got him. Yeah, I've wanted to do that, but together it's 19,000 negative equity, and we've tried to get a loan to cover that difference. So we could sell them, and we cannot get a loan. Okay. The good news is—here's the good news—

The cars together, they're not... You could reach in and pay these off probably over time. The 750 and credit cards doesn't scare me. You should pay that off this month and cut those credit cards up and be done. You should feasibly be able to reach over and pay off the $2,000 of medical debt really fast. That's out of your life. And now we've got three...

loans dealing with. Actually, the personal loans, I think you could probably break those up in the snowball and knock those out relatively quickly. So...

There are some parts of the debt-free journey that really are, this is the debt, and I'm just locking in. And there's no get-out-of-jail-free card that I can cash in. I've just got to work more, pick up an extra job, sell some of the things I like, and just hit it hard. My guess is your expenses are pretty high because as you guys have made more money, you've increased your lifestyle. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, we have, including all the debts, it's about $5,000 a month with regular bills, everything else. Okay, so that should leave $2,500 of margin, right? Yeah, and I don't know where that's going. It should leave. That's the key word, it should. So we're going to give you every dollar before you get off the call. And I want you guys, this is date night this week.

I want you, you've already kind of foreshadowed that you're going down this path. I want you to tell him, hey, I called in the show. They gave us this gift with the caveat that we would make it our next date night. And we're going to sit down and we're going to list everything that we're spending money on. I want you to have the bank statements from the month of May ready, right?

To see, here's really what's happening each month. Yeah, and so what's going to happen is you're going to do May's budget, even though we're already in May, and you're going to see how much you're probably already over budget, right? And then you're going to start June's budget together on the right path. So it's perfect because you'll be all ready to start afresh.

for June. And then from there on, yeah, with the $2,500, yeah, you're knocking out the medical debt in June. You're probably going to find, because you're going to cut back more, so you're going to be able to pay off the credit card in June as well. That feels really good, doesn't it? Yes, it does. Would he be willing to cut up cards and never use a credit card again? Yes. You said he'll agree with you. So if you say, hey, we're cutting up the cards, we're only going to use money we actually have. We're not going to have a promise that we'll have it. Yeah, we could probably do that.

Because I found that changed it for me, Haley. When I was getting out of my debt, I realized that cutting up the card was one of the best things I did because it's burning the ships. It's saying there is no option to go into debt. I froze my credit. So I couldn't even open up a line of credit if I wanted to. And do you see what I'm saying? You have to add friction back into your life as you're getting more out of control. And Haley, another thing that I want you to talk about when you guys do this budget date night is,

because George is right. You got to stop with the credit cards. But my thought is, if you tell your husband this, what's his name? You don't have to tell us. It's Chase. Okay, I was going to say we can call him Biff. I was going to guess Chase. I love a Chase from Huntsville. Let's say, you got to tell Chase the deeper meaning of why you want to do this. Because if it's just...

We got too much debt. We got to sell these trucks. We got to sell these vehicles. He's going to be like, what? What is happening? What happened to the woman that just impulsively got me a surprise truck? Yeah. So you've got to. And this might take some soul searching for you, Haley, to sit back and go, what do I really want? What is it that I'm trying to achieve and why am I trying to achieve it? Is it peace? Is it stability? Is it, you know, some sort of hope?

identity that you're searching for because you did mention that when you started making money it made you feel like oh I'm here so there's something there that if you can articulate what it is for you first and then now you'll be able to articulate it for him and then that's probably something he's going to be able to connect with you on right he might not get on board with let's just cut up our credit cards because it's a smart thing to do he might not get on board with that but if you say for the first time in my life when I made a little bit of money I felt like

like I was here and I was seen. And I realized I don't want that to be for naught. I want that to mean something and I have a chance to be here with a legacy. Like talk to him and then he'll get it. - Create the vision

And then selling the car becomes a byproduct of reverse engineering this vision. That's a very different story than we got to sell the cars because Dave said, it's I want peace in my life. I want freedom. I want our kid to not know debt. And we've had debt our whole marriage. And we've got to change our family tree. It starts with us. ♪♪♪

so

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Hi guys, how are you? Doing great. Better than we deserve. What's going on? Good. So my question is, I need some help trying to navigate if I should...

Sell my house, rent my house, or stay in my house. And I'm a mom of two. I have a 12-year-old. I have a newborn. And I'm really just trying to, I'm starting to really feel the heat of wanting to save for retirement, save for college, just having money to build experiences with my daughters. And this house is a burden? Can you not afford the payment? No.

So the payment is, it's decent. It's just that I feel like I'm one house emergency away from. So my mortgage, the mortgage I have now, I also have two extra mortgages or what they call partial claims because I ran into like repairs and it really set me back and I wasn't able to make that mortgage payment. So I'm just like, I'm at a space where I don't,

So you basically owe the back mortgage payments that you missed. How much do you owe total? So total is $130,000. I would say $140,000. It's $138,000 and some change. $140,000 total between all the mortgages? Yes. And what's your monthly payment that you have to make? $1,279,000. And what's the take-home pay per month that you're bringing in? About $4,400,000. I make about $85,000, a little bit over $85,000.

Okay. Okay. So you're right there. Tell us what other debt you have because something else is eating your lunch here. Well, I have a newborn. So that's my, you know, the cost of having a newborn. But I also have, I don't have any consumer debt. I have a car payment and I have a student loan. That's it. Okay. Car payment. That's all. That's consumer debt. So how much is your car? How much is your car? What's the balance?

The balance on the car is about $16,000 and my car payment is about $550 a month. Okay. And what's the car worth? Have you looked if you were to sell it today and get something cheaper? No.

Do you know what you can get for it? Okay, let's call that homework number one today. When you get off the call, we want you to go on kellybluebook.com and we want you to look for private sale if you were to sell it today on your own, what it would be worth. Because it could be, yeah, you sell that and you get 500 bucks back in your pocket. That'd be great if you can at least break even on it and then get something, you know, a little...

less nice in cash, right? What's left on the student loans? I guess what my issue is, is even with the house thing. So I live directly across the street from a hospital. I'm able to move back in with my mom and have space and everything. But it's just even the idea of renting it to like traveling nurses and things, it's just the money for the repairs. So even just selling my car, where was that? Where's the money going to come from to buy another car?

car that I need now. Well, I think it's, it's aspirational, right? So if you say, if you look, if you do the homework tonight and you look up and you find, man, I owe 16,000 and you know, maybe the car is worth 14, right? Let's pretend that you're at a deficit and it's 2000. Now you can at least start to, you have the information to go, okay, what would it look like

for me to save up 2000 and then what could I, how quickly could I save another 5000 and what's out there for 5000, right? You can start to use that as a jump off point for different ideas because a lot of times when you're in your situation, it feels like you're painted into a corner

and the best thing you can give yourself right now are lots of options and ideas forward. So right now, one option you have forward, like you said, is I could go live with my mom or I could rent the house, right? You're already laying out ideas and I'm just giving you more. So I would say the idea of renting your house doesn't feel like the right move because what makes home ownership stressful is you're on the hook for everything, right?

And you said that earlier, you know, I fell on hard times. I couldn't pay for it. And now look, so if you're if you're going to sell the house, if you're moving out of the house, sell it. I wouldn't move out and keep it. But is the is the allure to move in with mom? Is it for child care? Tell us more about that.

Well, the allure to moving with mom is just based on speaking to real estate agents. And the allure is to get out of debt. It's really just to get out of debt, simplify, and just really try to rebuild from there. Plus, my mom would be there, so I would have the support. Is she local? Yes.

Yeah, she's local. Okay, so you got the $16,000. Let's look at the size of the problem. You got the $16,000 on the car. How much were the student loans? The student loans are $20,000, $23,000. Anything else? No, that's it. So you have $39,000 in debt, and you're making $85,000. This is a very solvable problem.

That makes me feel really good, do you? Yeah.

Um, not at the moment. No, I'm not able to. And that's what a lot of the things when I was trying to think about like, how would I, like, especially with this newborn, maybe when she gets a little bit older. Maybe. And it sounds like you're doing this all on your own. Dad's not in the picture. I am. No, not really. No child support, no alimony.

No, and really honestly, it's making me feel a lot better if I could figure out what I can do instead of just putting myself out there again to try to see if somebody else would help me. No, that's not what I'm advocating for. I'm trying to make sure there's not other income that is coming in or should be coming in to help you get through this. Here's the good thing. It's all on me. The good thing is, and I want to validate this, A, a lot of times people call in and the mortgage is the problem. Yes.

For you, that's not the problem. So that's a green check. I want you to leave off the phone feeling really good about where your mortgage is. So I don't think that's where we look for the solution. The second thing, Sasha, is there is a seasonality to life that's very real, especially when it comes to the baby steps, not just when we're in debt, but at different points of time. When you have really little kids, that plays very majorly into what you're able to accomplish. Now add into the equation that you're a single mom.

And this it does. It doesn't change what you're able to accomplish. It changes how fast you're able to accomplish it. So there's part of this that I want you to know. Hey, as long as you're looking at this and saying, here's where I see the problem is, here's where I'm going to start to make adjustments in that area. But just knowing, hey, probably for the first year, this is going to be really tough and I might not have the time to.

to do some of the things I wish I could do, and that's okay. And this time, the main thing to do is say this, hey, number one, I am not going into any debt. Like I've drawn a line in the sand. I don't borrow money, period. That is your numero uno right now. No matter come hell or high water, you don't borrow money. So if you can do that, that's a win. And then number two, George, if it were, my number one goal would be, I'm gonna have $1,000 saved. By the way, do you have any money saved?

Yes, I did save my thousand dollars for the first baby step. And I think I have like maybe two more days. So I was trying to figure out how I would do like improvements with the house and stuff like that. Improvements with the house is on down the list. I think your number one goal, first homework, I find out what the car is worth. Second financial goal is how quickly can I save five thousand dollars?

So that I can get out of this car. Because for you to get out of that car and have that $500 payment back, that is the breathing room you're looking for. And you can start to make some progress towards kicking out the rest of the student loan. Are you doing any investing right now, Sasha? No, nothing. Nothing going toward 401k? No.

No, no. And I really want to get into that. And you will, you will. But don't let that be the thing that's making you feel like you're behind or like something's not right. You will get to that. It is truly step by step, baby step at a time.

Think about this, Sasha. If you can find $1,600 to throw at this debt every month out of your take-home pay, you can be out of debt completely in 24 months, worst case. Wow. Worst case. That would be great. If you just consistently, no matter what, like Jade said, you're being very intentional with that budget, throwing this money toward the debt.

It's going to happen. And that's if you don't sell the car. So you can do this. I just hope we can show you the forest from the trees and show you there's a way out. It doesn't involve selling your house, renting it out, moving in with mom. I would pause on that and see what progress you can make on your own.

Thank you.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. If you're enjoying the show, or if you ever have, do us a quick favor. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the like button. Hit the review button. Share it with a friend. All of that really helps us spread the word, get this message out to more people, and it works. The algorithm says, hey, let's show this to more people, and we can help more people that way. That's right. All because you clicked a button. So, means the world. Thank you for doing that. Alyssa is up next in Los Angeles. What's going on, Alyssa? How can we help?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure. So I'm calling to ask if it's okay to use a portion of our children's 529 plans that we have been setting aside to help fund my graduate program. Okay, what's the graduate program? The doctorate for nurse practitioner. Awesome. How much is it going to cost?

The total program is $81,000 without scholarships and grants, which I'm really hoping to get. And how much is in the 529? About $48,000. Okay, so you would take all the money out and still have a deficit? How would you pay for the rest?

Okay, so the program I'm going to do part-time, and it's over five years, and I'm going to try and cash flow most of it. I don't know because I'm still kind of transitioning from stay-at-home mom to working. I do work as a registered nurse right now part-time. I don't know how much I'm going to be able to work while in the program, and so I'm just trying to figure out if I need to dip into it

You know, can is that wrong to be taking out of the 529? It's not morally wrong. You'd have to change the beneficiary to you, which is totally legal. It's more just, you know, knowing that you're not going to have money for your kid when it comes time for college unless you replenish this very quickly. Yeah. How old are the kids?

14 and 16, and I think that their plan is they're trying to do service missions and such after high school. And so they would probably be entering college at the same time that I would be graduating. And my in-laws graciously have made a 529 plan separately that could actually fund their first year of college. And then you would cash flow the remaining years?

Right. And actually, we don't need any of my income. We move off of my husband's income. And so really, like my first year out of this doctorate program, like I'd be able to give all of any income I make to, you know, my kids' college. Okay. What's your husband make?

So after health insurance, what we taxes, what we pay to retirement, because we're in baby steps four, five, six. Awesome. It's about $122,000. Great. So you got $10,000 a month coming in. That's more than enough to pay your bills. So what you're really saying is, can I use these funds and then replenish them or cash flow them, you know, three years from now, four years from now? Right. Okay.

I think that's a great idea. I mean, as long as you're not going to debt, you're cash flowing this. Now, you earmarked it for the kids. But if you're saying grandma and grandpa have another fund set aside, we're going to be able to cash flow this. We've communicated to the kids the plan. You know, I just don't want them to go. I'm not doing missions. I'm going to go to a school that's two hundred thousand dollars. And, you know, regardless of what you say, I just want to make sure that we're all very clear about the near future.

Yeah, so we did. We actually did have a family council about this, and we talked it over with our kids because we're pretty transparent with finances with our kids. And so, like, they're okay. They're okay with me returning to school. They understand what we've agreed to pay for for their college. They know about the 529s that their grandparents have made for them. And, yeah.

Like everyone's on the same page and they're okay with it. They're supportive of it. Good. Love it. I love this. I love this family council. Yeah. And you're pursuing an awesome graduate program. You know, if you were just going because you were like soul searching, that's one thing just to go to more school, but this is going to very much increase your income. Do you know by how much from what you're making now to what you would be making?

Well, so I'm just doing kind of an as needed right now. I probably make about $18,000 a year, which is nothing. But registered nurses make, they can make a lot more. But as a nurse practitioner in this area, and I want to do a pediatric acute care, which is like emergency, they could probably bring between $110,000, $140,000 a year.

Awesome. That's a sweet upgrade. And the program seems reasonably priced for five years of school for 80 grand. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay. Wow. And you'd be Dr. Alyssa. Pretty cool. That's pretty sweet.

I like this plan, Alyssa. Thank you so much for the call. This is great. I got a lot of, most of my family's in that. I'm the black sheep. I'm not going to do any of that medical stuff, but there are great fields. And the less debt you have, the more fun it is. I think that's amazing. If you can cash flow all of this, I'd go for it. Shirlene is up next in Orlando. What's going on, Shirlene? Hi, you guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely.

I just wanted to say praise God for you guys. I have some hope again after putting my head in the sand. I have a lot of medical school debt and we're just in kind of

I'd say one third of the way through baby step two, but I still have a lot of medical school debt left. And so my question was, I have this high medical school debt, but I also have high interest rates on them. So I was wondering if I should consolidate to get a lower rate so that as I'm working through it, I'm not just kind of treading water. Maybe. Tell us more about the debt. How much is it and what are the rates? How many are there?

It's about it's a 700,000 in medical school debt that has accumulated over time. And it's broken down into 11 different loans. And it's between 6.8 percent and 8.5 percent. Are they private? No, they're federal. Oh, federal. OK.

Okay. My gut says I would consider refinancing before consolidating. I'm not a fan of consolidation because you're just moving the debt around and it hurts the debt snowball momentum. So I'm wondering, and Jade, I know we've got a partner over here on the Ramsey Show that helps with this. I was just about to say, Laurel Road does do that. And so you can...

go over there, you can do a five minute consult. And I mean, they're looking at your specific situation. So I think that you 100% qualify to do that. Here's the trade off. And I want to be really clear about this. So sometimes when you do, if you were to do a consolidation, what I don't like about that is it groups it all together and you've got this one payment. And when we talk about doing the debt snowball, that almost feels insurmountable. But if it's something that they could go in and refinance,

It sometimes does still lump it together. So just understand that going forward and figure out what makes sense for you. What's better? Would you rather have a couple of these that have a higher percentage or maybe it's some of them that you refinance? Because you're going to have to work through this. What's you guys' income?

It's about $450,000. Okay. So how much? Okay. So it's the shovel to debt ratio feels more normalized when you put it that way. Yeah. How many loans is it right now if you broke it all out? It's 11. 11 different loans. So, yeah, I mean, I'll tell you my thoughts on it. You know, my husband and I had $280,000 of student loans.

And the biggest one was 90,000. And the rate, I would say probably about that time, the ratio that we were working with was similar to your guys'. And it's just, I'll tell you, it is daunting to look at a big old sum like that because a couple of them had been consolidated for a better rate. So I'll just let you know upfront, like that's what you're facing when you do that. And you have to ask yourself, okay,

With the speed at which you're moving, are those percentage points worth it for that overwhelming feeling of saying, I'm not going to get those dopamine hits every time I pay off one of these guys, if that makes sense? Yeah. So a few things to consider, Shirlene, is make sure that it's 100% free to refinance, that you can get a lower interest rate. None of these are variable, right? They're all fixed rate?

They're all fixed rates. Okay, good. Make sure that you're not signing up for a longer repayment period. And all of that can just help you make a smart decision instead of just chasing a rate at all costs. But you guys can do this. I mean, is this like a three-year journey for you guys at this point to get out of debt completely? Yeah.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, that's what the numbers show. And we're being very intense about it and got every dollar and we're on the way. And I'm probably going to cry, but I had my head in the sand for so long and started out with $400,000 and then accumulated this $300,000. And I feel like you guys are such a godsend. I feel like this is exactly what God was telling me to do. Good, good.

We can be the lenders, not the borrowers. That's right. Preach. Preach, Shirlene. Beautifully said. We're cheering for you.

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Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and get a personalized plan made just for you. Simply head to the show notes, click on the link titled, Are You On Track With The Baby Steps? and complete the quiz. Chris is up next in New Orleans. What's going on, Chris? Hey, guys. Appreciate it. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? So my wife and I were on baby step seven. I'm 36. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. I know.

Appreciate it. We've grinded away our whole lives, lived below our means, done all the things that you guys say. It's worked well. We've got a couple young kids at home, and we're rolling into a nice summer, and we've got the itch to put in a pool. Yes. My kind of call.

That's right. It's a lot of money. The biggest thing for us is something that we're going to do it. We want to do it while our kids are young, but we don't want to put our retirement future in jeopardy either. We want to be able to thrive in our late 40s, 50s, and 60s. So I want to know what you guys would have to say about it.

What's the pool going to cost? You got some bids? Well, yeah, yeah. To do it right, it's probably going to be about $150,000 or so. That was my guess. Spot on. Okay, that sounds about right. How much money do you guys have now outside of the emergency fund saved up for this?

Yeah, I feel like we've done pretty well. For retirement and investments, we've got about $3, $3.5 million. Woo! Is that a thought? Now, wait a minute. Is this a prank call? Why are you even calling us? You didn't need to ask us this, Chris. Now everyone listening is mad at you. They're like, this guy's a humble bragger. Okay, how much do you have that's non-retirement that you can use on the pool today?

Yeah, so in those, it's about 50-50. So split between brokerage. So you cash out, you know, $150,000 of the brokerage, a little more to factor in taxes, right? Capital gains. Yeah, it would probably be a mix of that and then just cash flow in it with what we have coming in. Do it. Yeah, do it. And I try to cash flow as much as possible.

Yeah. Wow. Okay. All right. I didn't think it would be that easy. It's just, we've never been accustomed to spending that. Don't get me wrong. We haven't lived scoresters. We've lived a good life, but we have tried to live the law of means. So when we're talking six figures to dig a hole in the ground and put water in it, it seems, it seems a little bit crazy, but that's not where we are. You do have to consider one really important caveat to this whole thing, which is if you do this, you have to invite George and I over for a pool party.

100%. You got floaties for me? And do it New Orleans style. That's right. That's right. We can do it. Are you going to have a pool house too? I feel like you've got to up it at this point. Now we're mad at you for not spending enough. Yeah, this is going to start the ball rolling.

This is very exciting. In y'all's terms, baby steps, right? That's right. You've earned it. You've earned it. It's good to be Chris today, man. People think, oh, those Ramsey people, they don't want you to have a good life. They want you to be frugal forever. I'm like, nope. You forgot the part where it said live like no one else. So later, you can live like no one else. I know. That's right. Later for Chris is a lot earlier because he worked his butt off. My guess is they've had a high six-figure income for a long time, kept their lifestyle in check. Yes.

And then put away the rest of that money. Do you have $3 million, 3.5 million? Yes. In just investment accounts? Yes. It's insane. And if I may, let me, I got to get on some folks real quick. If I may, because George, every once in a while, my silly self goes and looks at some of the comments. Oh.

of the YouTube channel. I could have warned you against that. Let me do that, Jade. That's my job. Every once in a while, I do. And you guys, what George says is right. You guys get mad at people like Chris who call in and they've done something good. Don't, don't,

don't be haters. Don't sip on that hater rating. Go in the comments talking about, Oh, this guy's humble bragging. He didn't need to call the show. Don't do that. He's our hope. He's the one that's, we can look at and go, Chris did it. I can do it. Instead of being like that, you need to be asking questions. You need to be calling up Chris and saying, Chris, bro, how'd you do it at 37? You got a pool.

How can I do it? That's the spirit you need to have. Not hating on Chris because he's doing well in life. Don't have that spirit. That's an ugly. My mom used to say, you're too pretty to be acting that ugly. Oh, I like that. Yeah. My mom never told me that.

She never said I was too pretty. My mom told me that because, you know. Here's my version. Don't be envious. Be curious. There you go. All right. I feel like y'all are setting up for like a read the comments like segment where you go through and respond like you do on your show, George. We're ready. It is fun. Yeah, that's half my job is just responding to the haters. And I'm like, what am I? I'm dragging myself into the mud with the pigs. You know, they're not going to know who's who in the mud pit at this point. I've responded like two times and I immediately...

It feels good in the moment. You know, it's like Taco Bell at midnight. You're like, this feels like a good idea right now. I'm going to call, James, give me permission. I'm going to call somebody out right now. So I, again, was silly enough to go in the comments and somebody was like, man, Jade's guns are big, but her stomach is big too. Who raised you? I'm sorry.

this he was like jade legit has a gut and in my mind i was like what's happening right now so i'm just selling i see what you guys are saying and i almost responded i almost responded my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard oh my gosh i didn't i would have shut down the comment section i didn't write it i said it instead on i'm a little upset no one's ever commenting look at george's big guns it's always look at jade's big gun i'm sick of this jade i'm like he gave me

He gave me a compliment. Then he gave me a backhanded compliment. That's not right. Let me live. What a time to be alive. Yeah, I know. All right. Caleb, save us from ourselves. He's in Knoxville. What's going on, man?

Hey, guys. It's great to speak with you guys. Absolutely. What's your question today? Yeah, I was calling to see if me and my wife should pause our tithe-giving fund to pay down debt a little sooner. We currently give about 10% of our income. We save it and give it where needed, whether it's our local church or to missionaries overseas.

But we were just trying to see if we'd probably save maybe 600 extra dollars a month if I were to either cut it in half or not give at all. Well, you mentioned the word tithe, which makes me assume that you are a believer and this is a part of your spiritual belief, right? Yes. Yeah. My dad instilled that into me for a long time. So I've been giving 10 percent for a long time.

Yeah. On paper, you're like, what am I? I could save this much and get out of it faster. Like they would want that, right? Here's how I look at it. Jade may have a different take. It's kind of like saying, hey, should I stop showering and brushing my teeth to say 45 minutes every morning?

We'd all be like, no, don't do that. This is a part of your values, your routine, something that makes you who you are. And that's why I would say don't pause this. And you're talking to the math nerd who's like, no, on paper, it's amazing. And so I'm okay with it slowing down your debt progress because I don't see it as the make or break of you guys getting out of debt. I see it as a core tenant of your financial values being lived out.

Yeah. Let me tell you, I think it bothers you. Otherwise you wouldn't have called in. And that's not me. That's just me thinking if you didn't think there was a,

a yin and a yang to this, you probably would have just done it and not thought anything about it. But because it is morals and values based, the fact that you called us lets me know that something for you is not quite sitting 100. So that's why I might pull back and go, if this is it for me, if it's a values thing or a morals thing, if I'm not feeling 100, I can't do it because it's that nagging thing that's like, oh,

Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense. And that's, you know, I appreciate that advice. And, you know, like I said, we've been giving for a long time, and I don't think it'll make it break us getting out of debt. But I was like, man, I could probably put, you know, six, 700 more. Here's what I would do, Caleb. And this is what I've done. I go, okay, how do I now create $700 of margin without losing that? That's a good thought, George. Do I need to work more? Can we cut other expenses? Yeah.

And that encouraged me to get creative without losing my values. And so I don't want you to gain progress but lose peace.

It's not worth the trade-off. And I'll tell you one more, Caleb, and this is not like any shame or guilt because you can walk around and do whatever you want from this and God is not going to – he's always going to love you exactly like he does today. So there's that. But I can tell you when Sam and I were paying off debt, you're right. There is that temptation to be like –

But actually, Sam and I leaned into that and we started giving more. And let me tell you, that for us was the pop off in a lot of ways. And it's not to say you give and God gives back money to you. I'm not saying that. But I am saying there is a principle of when you have your hands open.

Things go out, but a lot of things come in. And it just is something about the posture of your heart that God does honor in more ways than one and in many ways other than just money. So I think you know what to do here. Beautifully said. Thank you for the call, Caleb. And it's a good reminder that tithing is not a baby step. If that's a belief you have as a believer, it's something you do throughout all the baby steps. And remember, you can always give more once you're out of debt. ♪

Go on now.

Don't make it weird. Okay, I got nowhere to go, so you need to go. Okay, bye-bye now. All right, this is getting weird over there, guys. What do we do?