Stuck in a Financial Pit? Here’s How to Climb Out and Stay Out
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Welcome to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win at work, in your work, and win with your relationships. All three of those are coming together. Hopefully you're winning. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is the voice.

And the fabulous face that you see next to me. And we are here together. We're going to help you out. Take your phone calls. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Partner, you ready to go? You warmed up? I'm warmed up. Did you do your salt cleanse on the throat or any kind of lozenge? Stretch the hammies. Yeah.

Okay, warmed up the voice. Okay, I like you stretched your hammies for sitting here for three hours. That's pretty good. We're going to start it off in Springfield, Missouri with Isaac today. Isaac, how can we help?

Hey guys, so I'm 26, I'm married with two kids and I own a business that we just opened back in June. It's really taking a lot of time from us. My wife and I are both working at it full time and we're not making much money yet. And so we're just kind of stressed about bills and stuff. We're kind of wondering how we can organize our lives better to be able to make more money and move forward.

Okay. What kind of business is it? So it's a franchise that a friend of mine and I bought into, and it's a cookie store. And it sounds like we've got a myriad of issues. So I heard we've got to organize, but then we've got to figure out if this franchise can actually work. So which is the bigger problem, spending or budgeting the money, the little bit money you're making? Are you making any money at all? What's the bigger problem here? Because I heard several things.

So I guess to get more specific, so we have that business. I'm also a realtor on the side. And so any extra time I have, I'm spending on that trying to sell houses and stuff. I knew it that too just a few months ago. So I'm just barely starting to make money. The business itself, the cookie shop isn't making really anything. We're just barely breaking even.

And then we're just doing all kinds of little side hustles where we can. DoorDash and Uber Eats and delivering for Walmart and stuff like that. So let me ask this. I got an idea now what we're talking about. So is it you, your buddy that you mentioned, you're the two partners and your wife is also helping out just because you can't afford to pay anybody? Give us just a little bit more clarity on that.

Yeah, so we did stuff the stupid way because we hadn't found Dave Ramsey yet. And so a friend of mine, he's just a silent capital partner. He put in money up front and helped us get into it. We have a big loan on it. How much? It's a quarter million. Oh, mama. And you owe $125,000 of that?

Yeah. So I owe 70% of it. Yeah. Oh, no. Well, that ain't 125. Last time I did. Oh, that would be. Okay. So you owe 70% of it. And the rest you owe to your. I'm the 70% partner. Oof. And you guys aren't making anything. You're barely making it, keeping the business going. It's just barely making it. Do you know why? Do you know the problem? Basically, yeah. Have you figured out what the problem is?

Well, kind of. We think we do. So our sales were really, really good when we opened in the summer and we would have made money, but we didn't have our expenses under control. Once we got our expenses under control, we cut payroll costs really down. We got control of our inventory costs, stuff like that. We're doing a lot better on the expensive side.

but our sales went down and we hit the winter. Part of that is because our marketing budget was kind of gone, so we weren't making as much because our marketing was suffering. Did you expect that? Did you expect that it would get slower during the winter considering it's the winter and folks aren't just out? Yeah.

Yeah. And in Missouri, the winters are pretty brutal and cold. So, yeah. Okay. So you expected this, but it was too early to have had any reserves kind of piled up is what you're saying.

Right. Yeah. So we're, yeah, we're just barely making it. But yeah, my capital partner, he's out in a different state. My wife and I are here and we're operating the business. How many hours are you working, the two of you, on this cooking shop? We've been able to bring our sales up just a little bit. So we've been able to hire one more part-time person.

But my wife and I are both, are each putting in about 25 to 30 hours a week. All right. So what I'm trying to figure out, Jade, is they got to make money. You got to go out and get business. You're a cookie maker. I'm trying to, if I'm you, and this is just me, I'm brainstorming ways they can make money. If I'm you, I'm trying to host every party, every wedding, every, I want to cater every event with dessert. I'm going to companies and saying, what can I do? Because you've got to make money. Otherwise, this is not going to do well for you. And I

want to know if my competitors are making money because if they're making money and I'm not then I do know that I'm doing something not only doing something wrong but I'm not taking advantage of every opportunity that's out there for my business.

Yeah. Well, and I guess there's kind of another part and that's just, I'm really worried because I totally get what you're saying. And that's where my head is too. It's like, I need to, we need to get our sales up. We need to get our sales up. That's all we talk about with the business. And so I'm trying to reach out and get catering orders and stuff. But then we're worried because the more time we dedicate to that and it's not a sure thing that money will, you know, the sales will go up.

That takes away time where we're doing like door dashing and stuff and we're trying to pay the bills on the personal side. And so that's kind of where we're stressed. Yeah, that's where I'm coming in. I don't know. I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to do what we always do here and I'm going to answer this the way. Go Ken style. So I don't know what you're going to say. And I'm anxious to see what my partner says here on this. But if I were you, I got to take care of my family first. I'm not worried about the cookie business.

I'm really not because I hear it in his voice and I think there's a greater reality here. And I'm going to try to keep the cookie thing afloat with other part-time people. This is already a slow season.

You and your wife have got to be spending time actually making real money, taking care of the family. And I'm not sure that there's a future on this cookie deal. And I'm the kind of guy that go, I don't want to prolong misery. I want to cut bait.

At some point, I'm not saying it's now. I'm not willing to say that because I don't know enough. We have limited time, Jade. But I do think the most important thing is that one of them has got a full-time, decent-paying job that will at least take care of the family. So, again, this is ideal. What would I do? I'd go either Ken or Stacey has got a full-time job that takes care of our expenses so that our family doesn't go below water. And then we fight to keep the cookie thing alive until...

we can apply some lessons and hopefully get more foot traffic. What do you think? I 100% agree. One of you needs to be working full time and, and, and find a full time job instead of doing all these odds and ends. I think that's also part of the equation here is you guys are burning the candle at both ends in many different ways. Yeah. I I'm curious to know, I know you told us the actual debt. I'm curious to know what you're burning every single month. Like what are you losing? What are you losing every month? Cause you said you're not making money.

But we were losing money. We've gotten to a point where we're either just breaking even or making about $1,000 or less. And when you say break even, does that include you guys paying yourself or that's just you keeping things on and keeping things going? Okay. Yeah. And then my next question before, the next question I'd have before making this decision is, have you ever run a successful business before or is this your first go around being an entrepreneur? So,

So as a brick and mortar business, this is my first attempt at all. I've done other like side hustles and stuff like helped with marketing for other businesses, helped with bookkeeping for other businesses. Yeah, I think this is going to be different for you. And I think for me, there's going to be a moment, like Ken said, where you're going to have to cut ties with this because if you're not making money, you're losing money.

I'd give it a run, but one of you has got to go make a really good living and not all this door dashing and scrapping. Let's get some comfort. See if we can give this thing a run, or is it worth it? At this point, just go, all right, I'm going to take my 70% that I owe, and I'm going to pay it back, and I'm going to learn something. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show where we coach you to win with your money, win in your work and winning your relationships alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. Uh, Jade, are you fired up? You're ready to go. You got your talk ready for January 23rd. I'm talking about the take control of your money live stream. Let's get ready to rumble. I saw your face out on the gigantic jumbotron as I was walking to lunch yesterday. I was like, hello, Jade. It was too much, but, uh, going to be a lot of fun. Uh,

Dave Ramsey and you are going to be teaching people how to stop living paycheck to paycheck so they can pay off debt and finally get ahead. Also, I'm told, Rachel Cruz and George Campbell will be joining for a Q&A, a little cameo. Factoids, yes. They'll be there. So when you sign up,

Here's an extra little potential bonus. You will be entered in our cash giveaway. Five people are going to win $4,000 each at the Take Control of Your Money livestream. That's this January 23rd.

You can sign up. It's free, by the way. You can sign up for the live stream at ramsaysolutions.com slash live stream. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash live stream. Can I put you on the spot for a little preview? What can you tell us? What will you tell us? I will tell you that your money is the most expensive thing that you have, and yet most of us treat it

without care we don't know where it went we just kind of guess about it and here's the thing ken if i bought you oh i'm very excited what's your what's your favorite like luxury brand

Well, Gucci... Category? Yeah. Can you give me a... Like fashion. Give me fashion. Ralph. Ralph Lauren. If I bought you a brand new Ralph Lauren trench coat, like a really nice one, you would treat it with care. It'd be on a hanger. I would get it dry clean regularly. You want to keep those nice. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. But you wouldn't get home, ball it up, throw it in the corner, step on it, wonder where it went. Wouldn't do yard work in it. Wouldn't do yard work in it. No. If I said...

Ken, where's your coat? You'd know exactly where it's at. I'd wear it in with a little bit of pride. Meanwhile, most of us with our money, we're like, I don't know where it went. Some of it's in my wallet. Some of it's over here. I don't know what I spent. And it's so expensive. We spend our time, our effort, our sanity, our sleep. We spend so much to get it. And then we just treat it like, I don't know where it went. And so I'll be talking a little bit about that. I like that. Great metaphor. That's going to put people in a good place of tension. Yeah.

The way you just set that up, a lot of people are like, ouch, ouch. I'm treating my purse, my shoes, my fill in the blank better than I am my greatest resource, my money. We're not realizing it. It's going to be fun. All right, let's get back to the phones. Melissa joins us now in Orlando, Florida. Melissa, how can we help today?

Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I am pretty new to The Ramsey Show. I just started listening maybe about like a month or so ago. I'm still learning and I definitely want to change my relationship with money. But I'm calling because I took out a loan back in. It was the end of 2019 to consolidate my credit card debt.

I was paying it. I was able to afford the payments and then the pandemic started. So I ended up getting furloughed from my job and I also moved to a different state in

in 2021 and it was just a lot for me and I just couldn't afford the payments. Okay. So I kind of just stopped paying and I guess like I thought it like disappeared somehow. I don't know. But I never really got... Speaking of the example you just gave, she did not know where it was. You were... That was a hope. That was a wish. Maybe it just evaporated. Maybe it just evaporated.

Yes, there's a lot going on during that time. But so I did. I remember seeing a couple emails from the company telling me to give them a call to like get back on track. And yeah.

Again, didn't answer those emails, which I wish I did. But a few years later, now we're in 2025, but I did get an email from a company saying that they sold off my loan to Debt Consolidator. And they basically were giving me very little options as far as like paying it off. How much is it? It's a little over $8,000. Okay.

So what are they saying to you? So they offered to pay it in full by end of December, which I couldn't do. And then they also offered 90 days to pay it in full, but they keep going back to paying it in full. And I told them, you know, I have like medical bills and stuff that I'm trying to take care of. So this is what I can afford. And it's,

there's just a lot of back and forth and I just don't want to delay it because I just don't want any legal issues or anything. But, um, and then just some backstory. I am currently, I live at home with my parents. Um, I'm a single mom and I am planning on moving out this year. So this whole thing just feels like such a setback for me. So it's a little discouraging. Well,

Well, don't look at it as a let's change our thought here, because if you're if your goal is to move out, don't think of this as a setback. This is just something that's going to when you deal with it, it's going to get you on a firmer foundation so that when you move out, you're in a great position. So this is like you cleaning house. Right. And, you know, that feeling that you get after you clean everything out up, it's like, OK, everything's in its place. Everything's where it's belong. It belongs. I might be tired, but I feel good. Right. You've accomplished something. Yeah. Yeah.

So let's talk about your debt snowball because you said you've got some medical bills. Are you listing them from smallest to largest? Like logically what debt comes next? So I actually just paid off my two smallest credit cards because I started that process. Good. So my largest would be my car. I have a few years left on that. And then right now my smallest credit card balance is probably like 400. So...

And what's your income? Right now, a grocer net. What do you bring home? So every month, how much money do you bring home? Each month, I bring home $3,800, but I also do get some child support as well. How much is that? That is $800 a month. Okay. Okay.

What are your actual expenses? Like, what do you, like, you're living with mom and dad. I know. That's what I'm wondering. What's your bottom line? Like, you could make it if you only had this much coming in.

So my biggest payment is my car. Another setback was last year when I had my baby, I went on an unpaid maternity leave. So I went about three months with no income. So I had debt. The whole point of me moving home was to pay off my debt, which is also $8,000. Melissa, I'm jumping in only because we have limited time with you, and I want Jade to be able to get to this. So what is that minimum number?

that you need to just survive because you don't have housing. What's giving you a ballpark number? Is it $1,800, $2,000, $1,500? What is it that you have to have? I would say for the month. Yeah.

I would say about maybe because with my minimums and my car, I would say maybe about like two, three thousand. Well, I think we've just discovered the issue. I think Ken just discovered it, which is you don't have a budget because people who have a budget know their numbers. And I'm not saying that to be, you know, ugly in any way, but definitely.

we've just discovered, I think if you have the budget, which we'll set you up with before you get off the call, you're going to be able to see, okay, here's what my life costs. And here's how much margin I have after I pay for everything that my life costs. Um, so for you, you're in, you're in a wonderful situation and the fact that you're not paying for housing and you've got to capitalize on that to the fullest extent while you're there. Okay. Um, and you're going to be able to do that with the budget. Um,

you're going to be able to say, okay, here's the truth. I have $4,600 every single month. How much is your car payment? It's $570. And how much is the total amount that you owe? I have about $21,000 left. And what's it worth? Do you know? I don't know, actually. Okay. I'd be curious to know how much that's worth. If you want to get out of this really, really fast, it might mean downsizing your car. $570 is a lot of money to be paying when you're trying to

do things like save up to get out of your parents house pay off debt take care of a one-year-old that sort of thing so I'd be thinking about getting out of that car but the budget is the number one thing and what you're going to do is you're going to put your income at the top you're going to subtract everything that you think you might spend money on and then Melissa whatever's left goes to your smallest debts you should be moving

You should be spending $3,000 a month on paying off debt. I agree. There's no reason why you're not. You don't have a house. You're about to not have a car payment. Let's get going. Hang on the line. What are we going to give her? Are we going to help her out with anything? Yeah, let's give her every dollar premium and total money makeover. I like it. All right, you can do this, Melissa. We're walking this through with you. This is The Ranch. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here to help you win in your life. We want you to win with your money, win in your professional life, and win with your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside 888-825-5225 is the number. West Palm Beach, Florida is where we go next. Katie is there. Katie, how can we help?

Yes, hello. What a great opportunity. I just want to say thank you guys for taking the call. Sure, thank you. I'm going through a divorce. I was married to somebody in the military. He brought me down to his hometown two weeks within arriving.

left me with nothing. And because of jurisdiction, I can't leave. This town doesn't have a lot of work opportunities. I've managed to kind of make it on my own without any family or friends here. But in my current situation, I obviously want to get out. I'm getting paid $13 an hour and I'm living in an RV. But I am very thankful for the blessings that have come my way. But obviously,

I just want to see my way out. My thing is I want to go to school, and I don't want to get in debt, but I feel like that might have to be an option, and I just need to, I guess. Sure. All right, let's start with two quick questions. Number one, do you have kids? Yes, I have two little ones. How old? Six and a four-year-old. And nobody to watch them? No, it's just been me. Right now, because of Florida being 50-50, I don't know.

But I actually have the kids most of the time. When does your four-year-old go to kindergarten? In the fall? Or do you have another year to wait? He's in daycare. So yeah, this year he should be going to preschool. Okay, so you do have a daycare option. That's good. Yes, and there are certain programs that help with that. But right now, I'm paying full time.

the full tuition for both my kids and not getting any assistance. Okay. And no child support. All right. So let's just, let's try to get you some clarity. Let's back out of the situation because this is, this is tough, hard to see some things. If, if money were no object and I just gave you this degree or certification, whatever you're referring to, and you're talking about schooling, um,

and I just gave it to you today, and you had that done, what would you be using the schooling for? What is this path, direction, you're thinking that you need schooling for? Well, I just, it's not exactly what I want, but it's what pays. Hey, listen, no judgment. So nursing, that's what you've selected? Yes. Okay. And what would you make, would you have done your research, what would that allow you to start out at?

28, around 28. 28 an hour? Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, we've got a real challenge because you just literally have no money for the nursing program. How much would the cheapest nursing program cost you?

From what I've seen... And I mean the cheapest, because nobody cares what brand name is on the diploma. We just need the degree. Yeah, this is at the local community college. I have the numbers, but I should have been more prepared. That's okay. But I did look into it, and I have the numbers. I just can't remember them, but it's absolutely the cheapest. Okay. Do you have a ballpark idea if you had to guess? Hmm.

If you don't, that's okay. I don't want to hold us up. So we need to know that number. Okay. So Katie, I'm talking like... It would be for an associate's $13,000, $13,840. So around $14,000. So total with $14,000, that would allow you to become a nurse, $14,000. Okay. All right, Jade. That at least gives us a target on the future. The deadbeat dad thing, just real quick question. I'll get out of Jade's way so she can coach you on this. But

Are there any legal recourse on this guy not paying you what he owes you? So I was able to get the military to pay me because he got out. Right now we're in a limbo with the court. Okay, gotcha. All right.

Okay. Well, we've got to get our income up. There's got to be a bridge, Jade, just on the income side. There's got to be a bridge from where she's at making $13 an hour now. If we could get her to $20, $22, $24 an hour, I don't care what it is, Katie. It's just you're doing something. You don't have to have a degree to get that kind of money, potentially. Now, I know you're in a limited area with

Within reason, if we can get your income, is there a bridge or a second job, friends, old grandmas at the church you go to? You've got to get really, really innovative in thinking who can help with the kids when they're not in daycare so you can make more money to be able to cash flow this nursing program. Help me understand the limited area. Is it you're on base? Is it...

Help me understand that. It's a very, very small town. Everybody knows everyone. West Palm? Like, if you get a job, you're... West Palm Beach? She's not in West Palm. Where are you? I'm not. I know South Florida. Where are you? Okeechobee. Okay. Okay. Listen, I...

I think there's more. I have different questions to ask you because I'm thinking about how we can cut around your budget. I thought I heard you say that you're paying tuition for a six year old. Explain to me their daycare and whatnot. Like the daycare, I'm paying for daycare and aftercare for my kids. For both? Because I don't. Yes. Is the six year old in kindergarten or still in daycare?

Um, he's in daycare, the four-year-old's in daycare. And when does the six-year-old go to kindergarten? I'm trying to figure out when your time and your money frees up because daycare is super expensive. Plus there's the time aspect. So I'm trying to figure out when they will be in school, you know, from, from eight to three and when you'll have that money freed up. Uh, the aftercare for my six-year-old is at the school.

So, because I get out around 4.30 and she gets out a lot earlier, so I don't have anybody to watch her. I've only been here, I think, a year. All right, I understand. Trying to get to know people, yeah. I'm just trying to understand when they both will go to kindergarten. When will the four-year-old go to kindergarten?

It should be this fall preschool all-union kindergarten. Yeah kindergarten yeah okay so that's going to be a huge that's going to be a parting of the seas for you because you're going to get a lot more money back in your pocket and you're going to have built-in child care for this portion of the day which is.

right now with a single mom, limited options, we need to know when that's going to be. So I think for you, that's going to open up a lot of opportunity. In the meantime, I do think that there's other things you can do for $13 an hour. For more than $13 an hour, I think you just need to expand your horizons, even if it's you finding work from home things, right? I think the nurse idea is great and I want you to do that. But

we've got bigger fish to fry in this moment and maybe just for the next 12 months until you can get your kids off to school, that not line item is back out of your life. You're starting to figure out what's going on with the child support and then you can start to devote money towards nursing. So I think this is a dream deferred, not a dream denied by any means. But I think the next 12 months is about you devoting

Being in a survival mode and looking for work that you can do that's going to earn more money until you get to the position where you can get this degree. Is that fair, Ken? I agree. Just from a logistic standpoint, Katie, because I know you're overwhelmed. Who would watch the kids and when would you do the nursing program if you had the money today?

Somebody's got to watch the kids. What's that song? Right. And so I've been trying to plug myself into some churches, but it takes a while to build up. Of course. Friendship and trust. So it's a work in progress. Okay. So here's the thing. You're doing the right thing. Here's my point. You are.

Jade's 100% right. I want to see you get more income. Let's solve the who can watch the kiddos while I'm making more money problem. I think that's huge. Let's get a budget. Jade will help you out. We'll give you every dollar or something along those lines. But I think real quick, let's get help for kiddos. They know you're a single mom. They know you need a little help. Let's get the finances completely under control. Let's increase our income.

And once you're stable there, I think you can save up $11,000 to $12,000 faster than you think. If you have better income and you got everything kind of under control, you know where your money's going in and out. I think that's the plan for me. Please don't do the debt. It's just going to put more stress on you. I think it's worth waiting.

I agree wholeheartedly. I would not go into debt. No, it's just, and I get it. This is the lure, by the way. Well, she wants to, she's in a hot pot that's about to boil and she wants to jump out and jumping into debt is not the option. Hang on the line, Katie. We're going to take care of you. Kelly will get you hooked up with some great resources to kind of get control of the money. And when that clarity comes, confidence to move forward on the advice we've given you. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. Glad to have you with us as we coach you and others up to win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Today's Ramsey Network app question is from Louis. We just finished paying off $100,000 in debt, however.

We have only $80,000 saved for retirement and have $15,000 saved for our teenager who will be going to college in three years. I'm 50. My wife is 47. Our annual household income is $175,000, and we only live on maybe half of that. Should we not put money into our daughter's college fund at this point and just hope she can qualify for scholarships or cash flow college when we get there so that we can save more for retirement? Any advice would be appreciated.

I like this question. So I always like to set the tone for these sorts of questions by saying that there's no requirement for a parent to pay for their child's education. Like that truly is really a privilege for both a privilege for the parent, if they can afford it and a privilege for the child, if they receive it. It doesn't make you a bad parent. If you do not pay for your kid's college. I know for me,

My parents told me they're like, listen, there is no college fund. You better be smart and good at sports. Right. And so the moral of the story here for you, Lewis, is as long as you're really communicating what the plan is and if the plan does not involve you giving them all the cash that they need for all four years or whatever it is, maybe they go to a technical college, maybe they go to college.

whatever they decide. If you're not paying for the whole thing, what you do need to be saying is, and here's how we are paying for it. You're going to get these scholarships or you're going to work part time and have it thought through and talk to them about what that plan is, as opposed to leaving them hanging or, uh,

putting any room for them to think that student loans are an option. And so in this case, I think it's up to you and your wife if you go, hey, this is because you're going to retire like that day is going to come and you're going to need the cash to be ready for it. So there is an inevitably an

inevitability there that you can't get around. And if you've sat with your smart vester and you've realized, hey, if we don't get on the ball with this, we're not going to have the money we need for when we stop working, then yeah, that is a reality that you have to face and say, okay, kids, this is all you get or you don't get any and here's what we're going to do instead. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I know people who can afford to pay for their kids' college and choose not to because they want their children to have skin in the game and they want them to pursue, you know what I'm saying, that side of it. So this really is up to what you guys decide. You have a really great...

household income. I'm wondering if you can continue to put 15% aside and cash flow a portion of this. Whatever you decide to do, I just want you to know that there's not, the only wrong answer is you not talking about it and coming up with a plan. That's the only wrong answer. Yeah, good answer. Love it. I can't add anything to that, so I won't. Let's go back to the phones. Kirk is joining us in Denver, Colorado. Kirk, how can we help today?

Yes, I'm just calling about just some financial question. I'm a pastor, been in ministry my whole life. We pastor a small church in Wyoming, and so we've lived in a parsonage all that time, so we don't own a home or anything. We've gone through financial peace in our church. We use cash for everything. We're completely out of debt. But my wife's parents were involved in a tragic car accident, lost their lives. And so they had they live in Missouri and they had a couple of farms.

And so we sold one with my wife's brother. We sold one and just put the money into Edward Jones. And we made, we have about, I think there's about $460,000 in there. And last year we made 19% interest on that. I think our cash interest was around $75,000. Anyway, my question is, we've been talking with her brother about this other chunk of land. And so,

I don't know if he's thinking we should keep the land. My question is, are we going to make more in interest if we would sell that and put it in a financial institution or keep it?

Keep the land thinking that the value of the land might go up someday. Depends on the land. And it depends on the stock market. Yeah, but well, yes, but we have historical averages on the stock market. So we know what the stock market has done historically. So you've got a range there of what that's going to do.

What matters is this land. That's the asterisk in this. What do you know about the land? Is it just farmland? Is it in an area? What do you know about the land and the future around it?

Yeah. The land it's, it's North of Springfield, Missouri. It's, and it's so just a rural land. It's just farmland. It does have some water that goes through it. So we're, we're probably going to just sell it, not like, uh, to be developed, but just someone who would want the farmland to run cattle or add to their farm or, or whatever. Uh,

And so it's not in a county with like a big city. So the value per acre is lower. Maybe it's like $10,000 an acre. We're not sure exactly what it's going to come up to. You're on the right track. I would want to know what's the potential of this land over 15, 20, 30 years. Because if it's a retirement...

Because you're asking apples to apples, and these aren't apples to apples. And so that's what I would be doing. If I'm looking at this as retirement money, I'm either going to put it in mutual funds the way we teach here, or I'm going to hold on to the land, and at X age that we determine, we sell it. So as you look to however many years that is from now, when you would actually want to use it for retirement, what do you project or what do some land experts in that area project that land value to be? That would be the answer that I'm looking for.

And based on that, then I make my decision. And, you know, look, you're going to probably get much better return on getting that cash out now and putting it in mutual funds. That would be my guess based on what you've told me. But I would want to know for sure. Is there anything? Yeah, and I'm just going to say I'm 58 years old, and so we're going to be retiring here soon. What do you think you guys stand to make on that? On that land, I'm thinking maybe $750,000.

I'm figuring it's like 150 acres, so if my wife gets 75 acres of it and it's worth $10,000, that's $750,000. I'd probably go buy a sign today and smack it in the dirt, me, and take that money and put that away. Do you need it? That's the other question. Are you banking on it? Is it something that you need in the short term?

not in the short term, but definitely through retirement, because like I said, we don't have a whole lot. And so this 400, close to 500,000 that we already have in mutual funds,

We're going to need to buy a house. We're thinking maybe $250,000 to $300,000 house. So that's going to take a big chunk of that and then just live on the rest and put it in a trust and give what we can to our kids. The other question I had is, does it cost you anything? Is there any upkeep on this land? Are there any animals on it? Does it cost you anything? No. Is it just sitting? Not really.

And her brother lives down there. And so like fixing some fence, we actually lease it to a guy for, we don't really make a whole lot on it. He just runs some cattle on it. So there is some upkeep on the land somewhat. I don't know. What would you do?

What popped in my mind is, is there a way that I'd want to make money with this land as it's appreciating in value so that I can make money two ways? That's what was in my head. And then cash out when you're ready. And then cash out when I'm ready. I like that if you can. And if I'm not going to do that, then I'd probably cash it out and invest the money. That's me. I'm not saying that that's necessarily right. It's just what my brain would be thinking of. I'm trying to find ways to get money. Yeah.

Right. And that's why I said I'd take the $750 now because it doesn't sound like – I actually agree with you, Jade. I'd want to know what that looks like. And then again, I'm comparing. So I'm with you. I'm 100% going. My goal here is to make more money. And that's your goal too. So the question is, what allows you to make the most money? I think my gut tells me, and I'm not informed –

But I told you what I would do to get informed. I would add to it what Jade just said, which is...

Could we be making more money than just leasing to the current guy who's letting cattle run on it? Run all those numbers, at which point I'm going to go, if my money has a chance to grow faster by getting it now and putting it in the stock market through the mutual funds, the way we teach investing, then that's probably the way I'm going. Because you've got, what, 12 years before you're going to go after it? What do you think, work until 70? I'll be...

I'll be 59 in February. I mean, I want to retire whenever I can. But yeah, so I'm figuring, you know, 60, 67, 68, something like that to retire. Okay. I will say I love a lump sum. I love the idea of dropping a big old lump sum and letting that... Let it do what it's going to do. Let it do what it do what it do. Yeah, I agree. And then, you know,

You got options. I love that plan. I'd probably sell that dirt tomorrow. Yeah, see what the wife wants to do, too. She's got a good intuition. Glad you brought that up. This is The Ramsey Show.

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with your relationships. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. We're both thrilled to be together for you. So we'd love to coach you up. Here's how we do it. You give us a call, 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Jade's our resident money expert. I'm the resident professional advice expert. Let's make Mo Money so that Jade can teach you how to keep money.

more of the money. That's our tango today. So can we help you? Let's go. Christian starts us off in Portland, Oregon. Christian, how can we help today?

Hi, Ken and Jay. Thanks for taking my call. Yes, I am just starting the new year off the right way with trying to get out of debt. I'm following the baby steps. I just don't have a lot of accountability and I need direction.

And I really wanted to make a big deal about this, so I wanted to call the show and get some professional advice from people that I trust. Well, I've got good news for you because I'm sitting next to the Budget Queen. Not the Dancing Queen. Budget Queen.

There it is. Do your thing. I think this man needs to know how to figure out a budget. First off, Christian, I love that you're understanding the importance of accountability to the point where you're like, I'm going to call on the show. People are going to hear it. Post about it on social media. I actually really like that. Some people kind of like to do their goals in the quiet and in secret. And I...

Listen, I'm no psychologist. I don't know. But I have a feeling around that. I think that when people do their goals quietly, it's because they're afraid that if they don't accomplish them or if they fail, no one has to know. Right. And so I love the accountability of you saying, no, I'm putting it out there. So my question is, what is it that you're trying to accomplish? And what is it? What is the thing that you're worried about being a roadblock for you accomplishing it?

Well, I've never really been good at my finances in the past, keeping a budget, keeping up like a record of my finances. And I'm about 90,000 in debt. It's

35 of it, 35,000 is, is an auto and the rest of it is credit card. Um, and, um, I, um, um, I work part-time, um, seasonal on a farm in Oregon. Um, I don't make very much, but I'm very fortunate and blessed to have a, um, um,

a trust that I get money from every month. And, but I've been very irresponsible. It's a 7,000 now. So you get 7,000 a month from the trust and then you're working part-time on a farm. What do you make from your part-time work?

When I am working, which I'm off season right now, but usually about $2,000 a month. Okay. And I work part-time because I have a two-year-old daughter, and I watch her half the week. I have her three and a half days. Okay. Do you have any support around you that could help with her? Well, so her mother watches her the rest of the time, and she is a big support, and

and and and my daughter and everything i know but i'm talking about you're you're a daddy now and i'm jumping in here because i don't like what i'm hearing and i'm not like criticizing you but you need to be working full time even when it's your turn uh your custody side of things that means you see her after you come home from work that means someone is helping you or you are paying for them to help you because you need to be making more money in this off season yeah is the trust for life

Yes. Okay. I have a question. You told me earlier that you've never been good at managing your money or sticking to a budget. Do you know why? Why is that? What do you do instead? Well, I was never really taught that. Okay.

Yeah, I am. And when I get around math or numbers, I choke up. I didn't get very far in math in school. Okay. And it's a very uncomfortable subject for me. Is it also fair to say that you haven't needed to budget? Yeah. No. Well...

What do you mean by that? Meaning you've never had to worry about not having enough money. So therefore...

there was never a need to watch where this dollar was going and where that dollar was going. Yeah, because $7,000 a month, you can live on that. $7,000 a month is a good check. No, I haven't had that. I only got, it hasn't been that long since I've had that. Okay, gotcha. And it hasn't always been $7,000. I started getting it in 2008, and it started off at $2,000. Got you. Which is why, by the way, Jade, I want him working, even though this is a nice blessing, I still want him working. Yeah.

So let's get into this a little bit. I totally buy it. None of us were taught this in college. None of us were taught it in high school. Few of us were taught it in our own homes. So it's very, very important. And I'm also with you on the math.

Despite popular belief, I actually hate doing math and I'm not very good at it. I made C's in high school and college. So there we go. The good news for you is that we solve those problems here for you with EveryDollar. So before you get off the call, I want you to have the EveryDollar app. It's a budgeting app and it's going to help you do the things that you said you struggled with, which is...

making a plan for your money, sticking to the plan with your money and doing the math on your money. It does all of that for you. The only thing that you have to do, Christian, is the only commitment you have to make is to make the thing, right? Plug your numbers in and just make

To take atomic habits, habit stack it with something else you do, right? So if you have a habit in the morning of you wake up, you make your morning coffee and you read the news on your phone, right? You just add and after I read the news on my phone or before I read the news on my phone, I track my transactions in every dollar. That's it. If you can start that habit this year, you're going to see things with your money begin to turn around because for most of us, we're just not

It's not part of our day-to-day rhythm. And so we're not seeing the fact that we're overspending on food or we're not seeing the fact that we're overspending and accidentally spending the money for something more important on something less important, right? And so for you, I think getting that habit into your life is going to be really important. So that's numero uno. The next thing I want to talk about is this car.

So you said you've got a $35,000 car and then you've got another 55 or 60,000 in credit card debt. So I kind of want to tackle the car. What's it worth? Um,

I think it's probably worth a little bit less than $35,000. I haven't actually looked it up. I don't know those numbers. Okay, then that would be my second piece of homework. Number one is every dollar. Number two, I'm looking to see if this thing, if there's a break even here or if, you know, if it's a very short amount of upside down-ness, I'm going to take that bet and I'm going to probably get out of this car because what are you paying every month for it?

Hey, my guy, let's get that money back into your wallet. That's a lot of money for somebody who's in $90,000 of debt. So if I were you, I would get out of that vehicle. I'd buy something far less expensive in cash.

And yeah, that's what I would do. That's almost half of that debt. Not quite, but almost. Yeah, you're clearing out a big portion of it. And then with these credit cards, you know, don't consolidate them. Don't, you know, do a shuffle game. Just list them smallest to largest and pay them off one by one. Ken, what's he going to do with the career real quick? I don't know. We didn't have enough time to get into that. What do you want to do? If money wasn't an object, say it, go. If money wasn't an object, um...

Something to do with plants. I work on a veggie farm. I moved to Oregon so I could do permaculture design, which has a lot to do with, you know, plants. So here's what we're going to do. Hang on the line. Kelly, let's get him a copy of Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It's the best-selling book with an assessment. It'll help. This is The Ramsey Show.

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The Ramsey Show continues. Thrilled to have you with us, America. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. We would love to hear from you. We want to coach you up. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside. Hey, our Ramsey Show annual listener survey is now live. We'd love to know your favorite parts of the show, what you like, what you don't, what you want to hear more of, whatever it is. We do want your opinion. There are a couple ways to participate. You can text the word SURVEY

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a $500 gift card. So got a chance to win 500 bucks just for telling us what you think. If you're going to say anything mean about me, just go ahead and decide not to. There might be a few of those. You think? A few? Just joking.

A few. Ken's sweater. Today, my sweater is just very low-key today. Yeah, you're doing good. I can't help it that I like some bolder statements from time to time. Yeah, you do good. As do you. Indeed. But I think you pull it off better, and maybe people are going, he should probably not try to keep up with you. I'm playing your song, Monochrome. Yeah, I like that. That's a good look. All right, back to the phones we go. 888-825-5225. Dag is joining us in Seattle, Washington. Dag, how can we help?

Hi, Jay and Ken. Thanks for taking my call. I've been listening to you guys for a few months or several months and just love everything you guys are doing. Thank you. So I'm heading in the direction of my retirement from my primary career, probably in the next as early as three years, but could push that out a little bit. So I'm looking at the sunset of my retirement

my main career and what I'm looking to, you know, do as a second career. And then also, you know, building some wealth in that I've already paid off. I kind of flip flop baby five and six, uh, paid off the house. So now I'm bolstering the college account for the kids and then trying to build some wealth tools. Um, and I'm, I'm playing it really conservative. We've got some money in high yield, um,

I'm just looking for a little direction in a couple of those areas as my sunset of my career kind of approaches. All right, so direction in what you do for work after you retire from the main career and then direction in how to invest? Is that what I'm hearing?

Yeah. I've been in public service as an emergency responder, and just that length of that career is wearing and tearing on the body a little bit. All right. Let's just dive in. Let's dive in. I have a sense that a guy like you calls this show, you have a couple of ideas that if there were zero resistance, you would go, this is probably one on my list. This is two on my list. Am I right?

Sure. Yeah. All right. So give me number one. What would you do if there were zero resistance? Let's say we fast forward and we walk away from public service and boom, we walk into this. What is it?

It probably has something to do with teaching similar to the field. So basically shifting my knowledge and experience into some kind of teaching environment to the new up-and-comings, whether it's through my teaching LLC or at a local community college.

Certainly an option. I don't have a teaching credential, so I have to go down that route. Well, what about instructing within the actual department? And I do do that currently. It's getting out of the emergency response side of things, kind of the wear and tear of the 24 and 48-hour shift. Right. So the question is, are you working for a municipality or the state?

A municipality, essentially. I wonder if there are some training instructing opportunities in different departments. And so the idea here is, here's where I would start brainstorming, Dag. All right.

These people know me. I've been a city employee or county employee for X amount of years. I'm in the system. If I can get out of the environment, that's what I'm hearing you say, an emergency, and I can move somewhere else and still take some of that transferable experience and get into instructing, then I'm not having to go necessarily get any qualifications. That's one option. The other option is, yeah, over the next couple of years, whatever.

You moonlight and get an online teaching degree and then decide, I can go to the local high school, I can go to the local community college. I think it's just laying out all the specific training slash instruction options in your area. Make a list. Where could I go if there were zero options?

um, challenge or hindrances. Then we look at that list and we go, well, I kind of like the idea of teaching at this local trade school, or I like this idea of teaching at this local public school, whatever. And you begin to make the list of this is more desirable than that. And I got my top two or three options. And now I started asking the question and these, I wrote about this, by the way, I'm going to give you the book, um, Paycheck to Purpose. Um,

But I wrote about this. There's four qualifying questions. Once we know, Dag, what I want to do, they are, what do I need to learn? That's the education question. Could be a certification, may have to be associates, may have to be a four-year degree. What do I need to do? What experience will I need? Okay, that tells me where I'm entering or I'm transferring certain experience. Then it's how much is that going to cost me? That's the finance piece.

And then finally, based on my finances, how long will this take me? And those are the four questions, Dag. And they're in the book. And I'll give the book to you at the end of the call. And it's in the get qualified stage. But those four questions right there, that comes up with a plan. And now it's not intimidating, Jade, because now he knows what he's got to do. So I think that's your homework there. I want to get Jade in here on the retirement piece so she can give you some guidance there.

Yeah. Tell me more. The only thing that made my ears perk up is when you said that you were very conservative and you were utilizing high yield savings accounts. So I didn't know what percentage we're talking. So tell me more about that. Yeah. So, you know, the houses, I'm fortunate that I got my house paid off. Nice.

I'm going to have a small pension, deferred comp. And I've put quite a bit of money away to pay for my stepson's college. And my goal is to have that 100% by the time I retire. Okay. But then I have some extra in there that, you know, I'm

I know that I can do better with that outside of a high yield. How much extra? I would say in the $100-ish range, I'd be maybe comfortable with freeing up out of there. Oh, that's the amount you'd be comfortable freeing up? How much is in there total? $240. Oh, my goodness. All right. Great job saving. Listen, if I were you, if I were in your shoes...

I would keep three to six months of expenses. You sound like a guy who wants 12 months of expenses, but I for sure keep six in there. And then if you're not, if you don't have something that you know that you're intentionally about to do with this money, you know, you're not remodeling your kitchen or you're not about to do something. It's not college money. I'd invest it.

I would. I'd be maxing out Roth IRAs every single year. If you have HSAs, I'd max those out and then I'd throw the rest in a brokerage account. And that's what I'd be doing. I'd definitely be investing this money and getting a better rate of return somewhere between 10 to 12 percent if you're investing in the mutual funds that we teach, the type of mutual funds we teach. Yeah. What gives you pause about that? Say that again. I'm sorry. What gives you pause about investing it?

I think part of it is a good portion of the money I've saved. A little bit of it was inheritance, probably about a third of that. Okay. And I just want to be, I kind of treat that as it's not really, yes, I received it in inheritance, but it's not really my money. Oh, it's yours. Yep, and I want to, it is, but yeah, I just...

Can you imagine if I gave Jade a gift and then took it back the next day? No one's taking that money back. It's yours. Or if you gave me a gift and I just set it on the shelf and didn't use it to my advantage. Boom. Hey, get with a SmartVestor Pro so you can learn about this and feel good about investing that money. Come on, Dag. This is the range. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up? What?

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I want to get out of debt. I want to lose weight. I want to make more money. But that's where most people stop. The problem is without a plan, those are just wishes. Most of us set goals with the best of intentions but have zero follow-through. Real goals require a plan. That's why if you want to see real change with your money this year, you've got to get on a budget.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman, 888-825-5225 is the phone number. It's time for our question of the day. It comes...

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Alrighty then. You have to turn your microphone on. I don't know if that works. You do. Okay. Today's question comes from Tyrone in New Jersey. He says, I work for a small company with less than 20 employees. Recently, I discovered that while my employer has been taking deductions from my check for my 401k, they have been holding the money and making a few small deposits into my account throughout the year.

and then one larger deposit at the end of the year. Huh, I confronted my employer and their only response was that they were sorry.

Does this sound legal or unethical? And is it time to seek new employment? Yeesh. That does not sound right. It does not sound right at all. It smells very fishy. Yeah, because you're missing out on time in the market if they are not investing the money into the funds that you chose. This needs to be dealt with instantly. Instantly. Like sitting down with lots of leaders going, hey, look, I got questions. Don't go in accusing, but a lot of questions, right?

And good questions. Good questions. Why has this been happening? Yeah. You said sorry. That implies a mistake. Has it been remedied? What are you going to do about all the back stuff? But what's the tone? I need to know tone because I'm having a strong tone. I'm going to say serious tone. A serious tone. Yeah, I'm not messing around. Very serious. Yeah. I like that you asked this. So I want to set this up well. Okay. The questions themselves...

Take care of the tone. In other words, you don't have to be accusatory, angry, a really pointed, specific line of questioning. Pre-thought out, maybe right there in front of you on your lap or on your phone.

And in the moment, you're serious. Serious face. We're not joyful about this. No. No smiles. No amiableness. It is seriousness. But I think the questions asked properly...

make it very serious. They go, this is a person who did their homework. This is a person who has follow-ups. There is a line of questioning. They feel as though they are on a witness stand, and that's how it should be. You don't have to be ugly and accusatory because you're hoping to get to the bottom of this and get an actual solution. But by doing this, you're going to find out really quick if this is a fishy situation or if this is a fixable situation. That would be my take. What do you think? I like that. I love a fixable

a furrowed brow and but a nod yes like yeah that what that way first question how did this happen yeah oh okay and stop talking yes how did this happen that's a serious question then the follow-up is has it been fixed will this ever happen again what happens to the money

that I earned that should have been put like these questions are going to imply a whole lot of seriousness. That would be my posture. Spoken from a guy, by the way, who's not done it well. All right. I mean, because I get it. I get how the heat should be pretty hot under the hood there. It should be steaming. But can we keep that in? And can we ask the questions that way? That helps us hopefully get some real responses. I hope so. Yeah, this needs to be dealt with quickly. Would you seek

I almost might seek an employment lawyer on this. Not lock up a lot of time, but maybe a consultation. I don't think I, I mean, don't get me wrong. This is not the type of thing that would ever happen here, but let's just pretend I looked at my investments and said, wait a minute, like my thing didn't go in there. I mean, I would go to my leader and, or, you know, who's over HR or whatever and say, Hey, here's what I discovered. I,

I would not be lawyering at this point. I'd be doing what you're doing, which is asking serious questions. This is the thing, though. They've already apologized. That's true. We have an admission of...

We have an admission of guilt here. At this point, then I wait for the next round. And if I see it again, because my thing is if I see it again, then yeah. I'm sorry. I should have done a better job asking you. If you know you've got to go have this conversation with the leader, which they do, I might consult an employment lawyer. Yeah, I probably would at that point. So I know what should be. You know what I mean? This is very fishy. Give me a look.

Listen, I don't want to say do anybody wrong, but they took a loan. It smells over there. That was a loan. I get it. Let's go to Denver, Colorado next where David awaits. David, how can we help?

Hi, I'm starting to work the, well, I'm working Baby Step 2 and I have been using a credit card for all of my like day-to-day purchases and I pay that credit card off every month, but I'm looking to stop using it. And I'm just a little hesitant to like start carrying a balance so that I have like the balance

money to just use the debit card for other things and then like have to carry that as I pay that one off too instead of just like paying it off and so I'm not sure like is it something where I should like wait a month or two and save up the extra money or should I just go and carry the balance and pay it off as quickly as possible so okay let me filter it through the baby steps so

When you're paying off debt using the debt snowball method, what we say to do is you pay minimum payments on everything so that you're satisfying whatever your debts are for that month. You're paying, you know, you're doing the things on your budget that are necessary for that month, whatever they may be. I mean, everybody pays their rent or mortgage. You pay your groceries, you pay your minimums on your debt. And then the extra money after that goes to paying off your smallest debt. So you do need to satisfy with your own cash your

the things that the month requires. And which for you, that's going to feel some type of way because you're used to doing that with your credit card. So essentially, you're used to taking all of your income and throwing it to your credit card to paying it off. And this month, you're going to go, no, I'm going to take my income and I'm going to use it on my life. And what the margin is, I'm going to use to pay off that credit card. And what you're going to discover there when you do that is what has been true all along, which is that money was debt.

and you were borrowing it, and now you owe it and have to pay it back. That's what that's going to feel like. You're going to actually feel that you've been in debt this whole time. Does that make sense? Yeah. Listen, I'm proud of you. I'm glad that you've seen the light. You've had that moment. What caused you to go, you know, I don't want to do this anymore? Um...

It's a little hard to plan when the bill is finished on the 20th of the month, but you don't pay for it until the 15th of the next. So it seems a lot more simple to manage the other way. Mm-hmm.

Well, listen, I want you to have every dollar. That's going to be a great way for you to make this transition into using your own money. And let me just say, and Ken, I know you can speak to this. When you have been a person who...

you've let credit cards run their scam on you, which what credit cards do is they say, hey, we'll make your life easier for you. Easy in the word in quotes. But what it's really does is it steals your confidence to handle your own money. That's what it does because you have this crutch that you've been relying on. That's always there. It's debt, but you don't feel like it's debt. And then the moment you remove it, suddenly most of us are like, oh my gosh, I don't even know what to do with my own income. It fails.

It feels exposing. And so that you're going to feel that for a moment and then you're going to go, oh, wait, I actually make money and I work hard for my money and I should have the dignity of managing it and spending it in and of my control.

Okay. There you go. That's it. And what will change is, I was waiting for him to respond because the emotion there. He's licking his wounds. He really is. But I love that he told you why the call, why the change. The stress-

And you're not behind a month.

When you do that, you're always behind a month. And so what happens? That's the feeling, yeah. You put everything on your American Express, and then what happens if you lose your job? Now you just owe the money, but you didn't get your paycheck. Yeah, yeah. So there's method to the madness, people. Good stuff. Thanks for the call, David. It's going to work. Take a deep breath, maybe three or four, and it's going to be great. All right, don't move. Quick break. More of your calls coming up. She's Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave Ramsey here. Dr. John Deloney and I are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. You, the audience, will vote to choose the topics we talk about, things that impact your life, like investing in your future, money, stress, and marriage, and more. We're coming to Louisville, Durham,

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Colmagey. Warshaw is with me, and we are here for you. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. A couple quick things here before we get back to the phones. You need to be tuned in to a new show called 90 Day Money Makeover. I'm a little excited about this because my partner today, the colleague here next to me,

Jade Warshaw. You put it on your old Instagram the other day. Ken, just tell the folks we're friends. Partner, colleague. We are friends. Thank you. I just mean in the... Okay, but...

Sam and Jade and me say, we all go to dinner. We hang out. We hang out. Thank you, Ken. Sorry. Just put some respect on our relationship here. Well, the respect was the colleague. It's a broadcasting thing. I'm old school. I was trained on things like that. It's all just throwaway words. She's my dear friend. Thank you. We actually hang out. Let's get into it. I was bragging on you. You posted something on the gram. And I saw it. And I was like, oh.

Because I'm not paying attention to your schedule. I know, I know. 90-day money makeover. You want to tell folks about it or I can tell them about it? I'll tell them a little something. All right. So a while back we said, what would it be like? You know, we take calls on the show all the time, Ken, and we give them advice. Yeah.

But we don't know if they're actually going to take the advice. So we thought it would be really cool to follow somebody who calls into the Ramsey show and actually help them take the advice. And so we followed them over the course of 90 days. And we've done a couple of these episodes. And they have been really, really, really. I remember you telling me about this one where you were out like on a farm. Like I'm talking about on the farm. It took you a while to get there as I recall. It did. I was fired.

Fighting for my life out there. Let me tell you, it was great, though. The life change that takes place over the course of 90 days is absolutely incredible. And it really just I mean, it's amazing. So anyway, a 90 day money makeover. It's available now. The first episode came out yesterday. It's on YouTube. You can go to the Ramsey Show highlights page and watch it.

The first episode, we follow a single mom, Heather Hartman. Let me tell you, Heather is amazing. I feel like we're bonded for life after this. But she's such a strong woman, hard worker, but she was drowning in debt. My production notes say that you may or may not have challenged her to sell some chickens, a calf, and even a calf. Is this true? When I met her, she had 50 chickens.

How much does a chicken fetch? Bro, I don't know. But you told her to sell them. I told her to sell them. She had three cows. I can't wait to watch it. Were you wearing overalls by any chance? No, but they convinced me to wear boots. No flannel though? They convinced me to wear flannel. Oh, I got to tune in just to see that. Listen, I was in my Green Acres era. I

I went. Did you buy boots for this episode? And they were ugly. They were terrible. What were they? Do we know? Amazon. Oh, you didn't go Timberland or anything? No, because I wanted people to know that it was a joke. I didn't want them to think that I was trying to. I could see you wearing some really killer Timberlands on this episode. Maybe next time. Maybe next time. I'm sorry. I interrupted you. So you coach her up in this episode. Yeah. Coach her up. And she's gone through a lot. She's divorced. She's divorced.

trying to work through a divorce. She's got children. She's got debt. It's a lot and a huge farm that she had. So watch the episode. She really does change your life. So again, available on YouTube or click the link in the show notes, or you can just write on in there to the highlights. As much as you laugh about going out to the farm, they made a good choice in choosing you, not me. I mean, there's no chance you're getting this, this J crew Ralph guy out there and on the chickens. And I'm not, I'm not,

Instant entertainment. I don't belong out there. Jaden can on a farm. Yeah, from a silly standpoint. It wouldn't be much redeemable content.

They show me all these farm tools. I'd be like, what do you do with this? I have no idea and I don't like calluses either. Unless it's from a pickleball paddle or a golf club. Those are the only two that I like to get a callus from. Good to know, Ken. All right. It's going to be fun. It's really good. It looks good. I saw it on Jade's Instagram. It's very, very good. The trailer looks great. Yeah, it's very good. I can't wait.

You know what we need to do? We need to have you and Sam over and we'll watch it. We'll do a watch party since we hang out all the time. Yes. People want to know that. Not in the hot tub because we won't do that. No. I didn't know that was an option. Well, you guys don't know this, but during the break, Ken told me about his hot tub. He told me about his new espresso machine. He told me about his deck. I'm like, I need to come to y'all's house, Ken. All right. You're welcome. Take a call. Moving on. Jenny is on the line in Dallas, Texas. Jenny, how can we help?

Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade. Thank you for taking my call. You bet. I just have a question. My husband and I have about $160,000 worth of debt, and I really wish I had found y'all sooner. We are on baby step two, and the

The house is $125,000 and we have some consumer debt of $42,000. Okay. And my question is, my husband has... We've been married for seven years, seven plus years. And...

He has a separate account than mine. We have two checking accounts, and then he has an emergency account that he only has access to, and I'm not really sure how much is in there. But he does use it for emergencies and for, like, we have all of our vehicles paid off, and they do need work from time to time, so that has come in handy. Okay. And he's...

He's kind of, we've kind of done this thing where he pays the house note and then I pay the consumer side of it. And he's wanting me to like just get in there and get us out of debt. Oh, okay. As fast as possible. And I'm like, we need to put everything in one checking account, right? What does he say to that? Yeah.

And he just says, well, I want you to have your own money. And I'm just... Is there precedent? Like, is there a... Can you see a reason for this? Like, are you guys coming from relationships where there was lack of trust, where there was some form of abuse or control? Is there a divorce? You know, was there anything that would cause him to say, I want to keep mine over here and you over there?

See, and that's something that I've asked him before because I don't have a problem with us having the same account. We've been together for over seven years. I mean, I'm not going anywhere. He's not going anywhere, so...

I'm not really sure. And at this age, I mean, we're in our 50s, so it's not like we're spring chickens and we're just trying to, I want to get all this. Well, that's kind of what made me ask, because if you're coming from previous relationships, I'm just trying to get into his headspace a little bit. I'm talking to you right now and clearly you're on board with it, which I, by the way, I think you're right. I'm just trying to understand what, what's giving him,

fuel to that fire? Did you have a season where you were spending like crazy? Like tell, is there anything other than just him wanting it this way?

Honestly, I'm the one that gets stuff paid off, and he's always bragging about me. And I'm like, well, if you really want to do this, I want to do the scorched earth approach. And he's not a fan of that, which I can get. He does put a portion of his check, every check, into this other account that I don't have access to, which is for emergencies.

And all of that. Have you asked for access to the emergency fund account? Yes. And what does he say? She just is kind of like, well, it's okay. I've got you covered, you know, and I'm just, it kind of frustrates me in a way. Yeah. Listen, uh,

That's a red flag. That's definitely a red flag. I don't like that. I feel like that's a controlling effort, if I'm just being honest. And what I find, and Ken and I are both, we both have been in long-term marriages. Ken, I've been married 18. You've been married... Coming up on 27. Right. So...

Here's what I know. If I say to my spouse, here's the way I'm feeling. I'm feeling like we're separate in this area and I want us to come together in this area. Or here's something that's causing me to really feel unsafe or on bad footing here. Sam is going to come and go, okay, let's fix that. The fact that he is not aware or caring about

The things that are making you feel unsafe or making you feel separate from him is a red flag. And I would take that to counseling immediately. I agree. Couldn't agree more. I think this is a therapy session. Marriage issue first, money issue second. I also would say to you, let's get him on that page. Let's chill out on the scorched earth and teach him the momentum once we get him on the same page. Good hour, Jade. Thank you so much for joining us here, America. This is your show. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey.