The Road to Financial Freedom Is Paved With Grit
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Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting today with my good friend, Ken Coleman. And listen, if you love The Ramsey Show, if you are an active listener, we need your help. We want to know.

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for you to do that. Now you can give us a call at 888-825-5225 and Ken and I will be answering your questions. You know, I'm looking at the screen here in the studio and it just occurs to me we look like we're very coordinated today. We did not communicate ahead of time, James. This is just, you know. Ken loves a coordination of outfits and here we are.

I'm a little excited about it, which is why I pointed it out. It's rare that we coordinate outfits. It never happens. So this is fun. But we're here to coordinate efforts on your behalf. How about that? Well, well done. Do you like that? Like that segue? Well done. Okay. Up next we have, which is one of my favorite calls to take, is actually two people on the line. I'm assuming there are a couple. You're kidding me. And this is Valerie and Bill. I couldn't be more excited that we have a couple on with us. Yeah, they're calling from St. Louis. Hey, you guys. Welcome to the show.

Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for having us. Absolutely. And you're both here, right? Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. So fun. Okay, so great. All right. How can we help? What's going on? Yes, ma'am. So I inherited a large amount of money from my dad. How much? A million plus. Wow.

And it's in the sale of his house is where it initially comes from. There's actually an addition to that inheritance that's in IRAs and things of that nature. It's like 2.5 in locked up in that. But 2.5, wait, hold on real quick. 2.5 in the investments and the million from the house or is that 2.5 altogether?

No, separate. Yes, ma'am. Okay, so 3.5. Okay. Yes, ma'am. So my question is, I would like to give a little bit of this money, not a lot, just a little bit to our four children right now. My dad didn't leave him anything. I was the only child, and so he pretty much just left everything to me. But I would like to gift them some. And the dilemma I'm having is that I have four kids and four different financial –

My oldest one is married with three kids, a wife that works, has a house, he's financially okay. My second son is married, has a wife, two children with one on the way. Could use a financial bump, if you will, owns a house.

My daughter, who's also older, she owns a house that is living with her boyfriend, who they own the house together. I know that's a real Dave Ramsey no-no, but anyway, and so she's financially well. She's graduated nursing school, and she's

got a good head on her shoulders financially. She's the saver. And then I have a daughter who is currently in college and still lives at home who needs to get hit heavily in the head with the Dave Ramsey financial piece seriously. So you can see I'm kind of all over the map with if I give them some money,

how do I gift it to them? I don't want one. I don't want to enable one. I don't want another one to just blow it. I don't want to, you know, potentially give them money and put it on the house. Let me, let me jump in for a second. So how much are you planning to give each child the same amount or different amounts?

Same dollar amount across the board. It's not huge. I'm just thinking like... Where's Bill? Maybe just $10,000. Just like $10,000. Just something to kind of help them ease their financial life right now. So where's Bill at on this deal? Bill?

Yes, sir. Where are you at? I personally think they wait until something happens and we pass on to the other side and they get the whole shebang that's in our truck. Okay. This is a fun... Okay. This is a... Yes. This is an interesting discussion. Okay. Um...

Because I read a book, which you guys should read just for this discussion because I don't agree with the entire book. I love that you're coming with a book recommendation. It's called Die With Zero. Have you heard of this? I know this book and it's on my list to read. It is interesting because part of this discussion is what you guys are talking about. And his philosophy basically is give your kids their inheritance. Now. What now? So that's because the most time...

according to the book, that people need money. So to your point, Valerie, is really between 24 and 34. You're paying off student loan debt. You're getting your first home. Usually transitions within marriage and kids. Like the most happens usually within that timeframe. And they could get a head start, quote unquote, financially if they had help with a down payment or whatever it is. And then they get to build above that.

and they get to start earlier versus them getting money. This is not kind of against you, Bill, a little bit, but versus the older kids now being in their 60s when Bill and Valerie passed to the other side. Well, when you're 60s, you're pretty much all set up. You don't really need it or you shouldn't. And then what do you do with that? Right. So it's just kind of like. All right. So let's stay there. Go ahead and use it. So before we get there. So if that's the case.

And you're not necessarily saying they do that here. No, it's just a take. Valerie and Bill, to my knowledge, you two, you all speak up here. You don't have already a set amount that you were going to give outside of this conversation of give them all $10,000 out of this inheritance. But Bill, if I'm hearing you right...

You're going, we don't know what chunk it'll be, but whatever we have left when we die, that's what they get. There's not a certain amount of money that you would be in favor of giving them now, this idea that Rachel put out there. Would the two of you go, all right, if we gave them a larger chunk now, would you be okay with that?

Well, my thing is, so we're going to be paying off our house and a few other things that we have. I just don't want to, I would rather that money continue to grow because now we will be financially set. And then in hopes, if the market is the way it should be, we would have multi-millions in there for them whenever we die. Okay.

All right. But that's contingent on you guys stewarding it as you would, and it grows over time. So I appreciate the book idea, but I feel like that's only applicable to people who have a large chunk of money now. That is true. Yes, that's fair. Which is them, in a sense. They have $3.5 million. Yeah. So in this case...

Uh, you two, you guys are, you're calling us to weigh in the middle of this deal. I want to know Bill from you. I mean, it's 40 grand, which granted it's nothing to sneeze at, but 40 grand out of 3.5 million. It's not a ton. That's where I'm at. So is it what, what's bothering you about it? Bill's it, is it, it's less about the dollar amount and probably maybe the principle of it.

Is it truly equal to all four because there's four different situations? Yes. I'm going to tell you as a father of three, Rachel's a mother of three. My vote is yes. Each one of them gets the same amount. You create a whole...

I don't like giving them all different amounts based on their realities. And you could wait with like the one in college and say, we're going to hold it until you're 25. You know what I mean? There could be an age. But where are you at on the 10 grand each? Forget the number amount. Is it an equal amount? Oh, it's equal. Yeah. You agree with me? Yeah, for sure. I think it needs to be equal. I feel like it'd get real messy real quick. Yes. Even though...

certain kids obviously maybe need more right now. But I also want this, whenever you give a gift of money, you want it to be a blessing, right? You want this not to continue to harm. So if you do see a situation where this could be actually not good for them and leads them in more of an unhealthy path, that would be more of a pause for me just to think through. That's why the age limit may be something to think about. Like when you're 25, you get it.

I don't know. Yeah. Just throwing it out there. But no, I'm in favor. Sorry, Bill. I am too. I'm on Valerie's side. Sorry, Bill. 10 each. And it's such a small percentage compared to what you guys will leave them anyways. So this is The Ramsey Show.

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I'm doing well. I sent an email because I didn't think I could get on, but then I called and got on. There you go, Kel. Looky there. You're live right now. This is exciting. I have a two-part question. One about investment, and the second part is about beneficiaries. Okay. All right. What's your first question? All right.

I started watching Dave Ramsey heavily last year. I love his advice. All of you all, your perspectives on life and your sense of humor is just amazing. Thank you. I feel like she's talking about me there. So I really appreciate that, Kel. Thank you.

I've always been done well financially, like pretty decent, but there is definitely room for growth and improvement, and this show has really helped me. As a social worker, I make about $88.6 annually, and I get about $4,200 a month for my rental properties. I own the rental properties outright. I manage them myself, so there's not a whole lot of overheads.

There was this one episode Dave talked about being able to charge low rent, give grace, and et cetera due to circumstances, and that just really resonated with me. But also I have quite a nest egg in savings, and that comes from...

There we go.

But I'm really not sure about the best way to go about doing that. And some of my ideas just don't align with your principles. I know that I'm just going to say them anyway. So I'm not sure if I should finance the multi-unit, get a HELOC on my personal residence where I owe one-on-one.

and it's worth about $300. My nest egg is $175 cash. That's not quite enough to purchase outright. Mm-hmm.

And the prices are just rising. And sometimes I feel bad for not doing this a couple years ago when the prices were lower, but I was scared and all of those things. Okay, let me interrupt you real quick. Okay, let me ask this. So you make $88,000 a year. You bring in $4,200 in rental properties that you own outright. How many homes is that? Five. Five. And how much are they worth?

They're not worth a lot of money. They're in Alabama. They're not worth a lot. Okay. No, that's fine. That's fine. No, I mean, still, it's fantastic. And then you have $175,000 in just savings. Is that what you said?

Different savings accounts. One is an account where I put all the money from the rental. That's about $100,000. I just pay insurance. I just do the repairs. And then the other one is just regular savings. But recently, one account had $30,000 in it. And I was just looking, and it was gaining like 25 cents a month. And just listening to you all, I'm listening to the mutual savings.

Yes, totally. No, I hear you. Well, Kel, you've been, let me just tell you, I mean, it's very impressive what you've done. I mean, you are in an incredible spot.

So you call the Ramsey show. Yes. Any of the examples or options that you gave to purchase a multi-unit, we would not go for because they all pretty much involve debt. So I'm not going to go down that route with you. But what I would encourage you in is, you know, I so appreciate your willingness and urgency to continue to grow, right? You want your money to grow. And what's the next thing? And I think that that is fantastic advice.

But what happens so easily is that emotion and that motivation sometimes crosses a line of risk. And then people take on debt and then take on risk. And they take this beautiful, peaceful life that you have where you're just not. I mean, you're making $4,200 a month on rental properties. I'm like, you have this incredible life set up.

And then they go and kind of mess with it. And suddenly now you have a bank in your life. You're worried about tenants. And suddenly this peaceful life has now brought on a level of anxiety and work and risk. And, you know, it takes a part of your about a part of your mindset away from you and away from the peace that you have. So I want you to grow financially. We are all about that on this show. I think that that's fantastic. I just want you to do it in a slower way.

wiser way that's going to ultimately for you, Kel, set you up as a whole person, not just the financial piece of your life, but every element of your life to still continue this piece that you have. So what I would do is either continue to do, because you can't, I mean, from our regards, you can't afford to go buy a multi-unit complex. So what I would say is either continue to do what you're doing, maybe save up and

And go buy... You said that our homes aren't worth a lot. Maybe you go and step up in rental and go buy in a nicer neighborhood somewhere that's more expensive. You can get more rent that way. Growing in these ways that is more within your means when it comes to cash. Because right now, you're on baby step seven. I mean, you're good. I'm sensing, Kel, that...

You gave us a real window into what's really going on here, and I think you need to be okay with how well you've done. I think Rachel nailed that. And there's the same thing that you identified at the start of the call where you have some financial insecurity.

and you've saved all this money up and you're just afraid to spend it, that's also driving this question, which is I feel like I need more and more and more and I'm willing to be risky and go into debt to fill this hole in your soul. And the hole in your soul here is whatever you come from that you've conquered, by the way, but you still have that fear. And by the way, we all have those. Right.

So you're not abnormal. Rachel's right. You've crushed it. I think you need to identify today that the same thing that's not allowing you to go spend some of that cash and live some of your life and enjoy the fruits of being disciplined is the same thing that's making you question, should I add more to my portfolio? Do exactly what Rachel said. When you can upgrade in cash, right, to better investment properties, do that. But don't have this

burning in your soul that I've got to do more to break some generational poverty or whatever you've come from. And I sense that that's probably true with you. Am I right? Yeah. Okay. So Rachel's already giving you great advice. I say amen to what Rachel said. I'd add one other little thing. I want you to enjoy some of your money for a bit.

Stop thinking about adding your portfolio right now. And why don't we just take a really great vacation? Why don't we bless some people in your community with some nice, generous financial gift that's easy for you, but you begin to see the value of what you've done and allow you to soak in that

that, hey, I've earned this. I've broken this generational poverty. I'm never going back. I'm the future. I'm the model. So let's model the way. I think that's my encouragement for you today. And I would say, Cal, too, jumping off what Ken was saying, and I think he is so spot on

is that growing your portfolio, again, that's not wrong, but we want it to come from a right motivation. And if the motivation is out of a lack of fear or scarcity or, oh gosh, if I don't do this, what's going to happen is you're going to get the complex, right?

And then the finish line moves again. And then it's like, well, I probably shouldn't have gotten one over there. So maybe I should. You're going to keep going, going, going, going. There has to be a level of contentment in your soul. That's it. Like a level of peace. Well, it's been about six years since I invested in anything. So I have. I was content. And this was a long-term goal. And I just started to feel like, okay, I think I'm ready. Yeah.

Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, yeah. So then maybe your motivation is pure, but I would just do it then from a tactical sense in the right, wisest way, which we would say is not with debt. It is to continue to be autonomous when it comes to your money and not have other people telling you what you have to do because then you make totally different decisions with your life and money when other people are involved.

You are in a state of autonomy, and that's where I would stay, Kel. Continue to grow. You've crushed it. And you're doing great. And go take a vacation. Yes, spend some money on you. Go enjoy. Thanks for the call. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts, and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up? What?

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. One of the ways for you to get a handle on your finances in 2025 is to get control of your money. And we have a live stream January 23rd free to you called Take Control of Your Money. It's hosted by Dave Ramsey and Jade Warshaw. And you're going to learn how to stop living paycheck to paycheck today.

free up some breathing room so finally you can pay off debt have some margin and some peace when it comes to your money and then george camel and myself are going to join them cameo huh yeah later on in the live stream we're going to take some live q a's and kind of do like this show and uh take some questions and talk to some of the viewers there and what's crazy too is if you sign up and you attend this live stream we are giving some

Cash away. Yes, there's a cash giveaway for five people to win $4,000 each.

I mean, that's unbelievable. It's 20K. Unbelievable. One night. What quick math you can do there. You know, I went to basic math classes. Unbelievable. So sign up for the free live stream by going to ramseysolutions.com slash live stream or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube and join us. It's free. It's going to be a great night. It really is. These live streams are always very helpful at the beginning of the year to either just get the motivation back again and kind of get back on track or

Or if you are new to all of this and you're thinking, I need to start a fresh start with my money, this is what you want to attend. So again, join us for Take Control of Your Money on January 23rd. Up next, we have Rose in Washington, D.C. Hi, Rose. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys? We are doing great. How can we help?

So my question is financial, but it's also affected by, like, relational stuff. So my question is, is it the right decision for my boyfriend and I to move out from living with his family when the lease ends, knowing that our rent will double and we're still on baby step two, and then we also have two colleges we have to pay for starting in the fall? For some background, I'm 31, he's 27, and we're currently going through, like, an intense disclosure process in therapy. So we're thinking of being with families, like,

adding some stress. And then at the same time, we unexpectedly got custody of his niece a year and a half ago when she was 17. So we got her late in life. So we know we won't make it to baby step five in time to save up for her college that we have to start paying for in the fall. So what's the alternative if you don't move out of the brother's house?

Um, we would have to stay, uh, living with like family members, which the rent is cheaper, but just, um, and it's not with his parents. It's with like brother, nephew, family. So yeah, it's a disaster. You know, you want to get out of there. You know, you should get out of there. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So is there not a better rent option?

Um, it's just like right now, each like me and my boyfriend are each paying like $550. But if we move out, you know, getting an apartment near the D.C. area for like a one bedroom or two bedroom with our niece would be like double what we're paying now. Where? Okay. I know that area somewhat. Where are you now? What what area are you in?

We're in the suburbs. We're in Springfield. We're in a big house, so we split it between six people versus if we go out on our own, we'll be paying double for ourselves. Yeah. So run the numbers for Rachel here. What your income is versus what this new rent would be.

Okay, so I make about $86,000 per year with multiple jobs. And then last year, my boyfriend made $20,000 because he was part-time in college. He's about to take a break on that. So together, it's about $106,000 total per year. And then the rent that we're paying right now is $1,120.

But if we move out, it'll increase to about $2,500, which I think is still in the 30% monthly income. But we're nervous about that we're going to be cash-flowing colleges starting in the fall. Okay. Rose, let me tell you this. A little bit of a red flag that I have going up is that you're saying a lot of our, our, our. You're taking care of...

and putting money towards a family member and a situation that you don't have any legal right to in a sense, meaning that you are putting your money in to a life and a relationship that there is no marriage, there is no legal binding. And there's a part of me that worries me because even though I'm sure you guys are in love and you've been in a relationship for a while,

We get calls on this show quite often that, you know, we get a call and it's like, yeah, my boyfriend and I just broke up and I, you know, still have debt and I don't really have a ton. And then it turns out that they were giving their money and your income to a situation that if something were to happen with the relationship, you don't get anything from on the back end. Does that make sense? Like there's a big risk there. And I'm not a huge fan of you feeling this burden either because it's

It's not your niece. It's his. And so I there's a little bit of breadwinner. I hate to say in this situation, which I really don't like.

A boyfriend needs to get his act together. Why don't you get married? Well, there's that. So, okay. Well, that's the little part. But, yeah, so we've been together almost six years, and we were about to get engaged, but he had a relapse, and so that's why we're in the intense therapy process. What do you mean? We kind of put that on pause. Without getting into the nitty-gritty, what kind of relapse?

Like a full relapse? Are we talking about substance abuse? No. Okay. But I am on a 12-step program. You are?

Yes, and him too. He's in recovery now, and then we're in the disclosure process. Okay, when you said disclosure, I figured there was something. Yeah, we don't want to dig anymore. Okay, yeah. So, Rose, I would be... Separate, separate, separate. Yeah, and again, this isn't to punish him. This is to be wise for Rose. And I would tell you this...

I mean, honestly, Rose, we are one of the shows in America that... One of the only shows that tell married couples to combine their finances. A lot of people say, just keep everything separate regardless if you're married or not. We say, when you get married, you need to combine everything. Except for with the asterisk, if there is an ongoing addiction, if there's abuse, if there's something in the relationship, we do recommend separating, again, for protection of the other spouse until trust is rebuilt and all of it. So from...

a financial perspective, Rose, I would really, and again, it's not to punish him, but it is to say, hey, we are not married and we were going that direction. There was a relapse, which again, I think happens in the recovery world. We have a good friend, you know, that is in recovery too. And so like,

It is wonderful and there is a healing journey and a process that I totally believe in. But I would slow down and I wouldn't be fretting about the niece's college that's not even your niece yet. I mean, all of it. Do you know what I'm saying? I agree. I would keep some things very, very separate until...

You feel comfortable enough to marry this man. And at that point, then he is trustworthy then to together start working on this life financially together. But until then, there's no we in it. It's his niece.

He got custody. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I know that probably goes against so much of how you guys have been living, and I know that feels really counter to it, but that's the advice I would give you because, again, we hear the other side of it too. Yeah, and just a follow-up, Rose. Is it fair to say that when you're going through whatever you're going through now, is it possible that this process leads one or both of you to the point where you guys go, we're not going to stay together or we're not going to get married?

Oh, no, we're pretty sure we're going to make it through the process.

then he needs to be truly paying 50-50 on the rent. And you, I'm just clarifying something that Rachel said, you're not taking any of your income to help out with the niece or anything else. Not until you guys are a legal couple. You pay for you. That means you pay your half of the rent. You pay your half of the utilities. You pay your, that's the, and then everything else is separate until we get legally married. I want to make sure you catch that. And that keeps things really nice and clean. Okay.

Which means he may need to delay college for a little bit. That's right. Yeah. And get his income up. Yeah. If you guys are going to move out of the family situation that is toxic and not fun to be in, then your rent goes up. And as two adults, we have to split that rent. Well, if he looks up and says, wow, I don't have a lot for this rent, then I'm going to have to figure out a way to pay for this rent. And you have to problem-solve in that, right? Instead of just leaning on euros for...

for everything and I yeah I would be very cautious of that which again is is this is hard and messy in the point of the journey that you guys are relationally too so I know we're adding on probably an extra layer of hard conversation but you called so good luck to you Rose hope nothing but the best for you guys this is the Ramsey Show.

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Today's question comes from Carissa in Oklahoma. I'm 25. My husband is 37. I have been the main breadwinner since we got married because I wanted my husband to focus on his writing career. I recently had our second child and would like to stay home to raise the babies. The problem is I can't convince my husband that we can make it on one income. He has not consistently held a job for the last three years due to company layoffs.

I'll address that in a minute. I make about $30,000 a year. My husband, when he's working, by the way, that's in parentheses, makes about $30,000 as well.

Our rent is $800 a month, and besides our normal bills, we have a car payment of $300 a month. We also owe $3,700 in medical bills. We budget and don't live outside our means. It would probably be a big financial change to only have one income, but I feel like my most important job is to take care of my children. Is my desire to be a stay-at-home mom unrealistic in this economy? In the economy, no. In your household? Yeah.

In your husband's reality where he can't seem to hold down a job. Tell us about what do you think, Mr.

You heard me? Okay, so I'll address that one. I want to know the layoff situation. Well, okay. Let me get my tea. All right, let me remind you. He has not, these are her words, he has not consistently held a job for the last three years due to company layoffs. False. If I had a buzzer sound, I would hit the buzzer. It should be worded, he has not consistently held a job for the last three years due to his lack of effort. Now,

What I'm not disputing is that the guy's been laid off, maybe multiple times over a three-year period. But when someone is not consistently holding a job down for anything longer than six months, it's an effort issue. And that's going to cause a little stir with some people. Let me explain. In the American economy as of today, one can go work.

It may not be the career that you got educated in or that you want to be in, but I can promise you that if I'm shown the door later today after the show, which the jury's still out, I'm not going to be without work for three years, no matter what happens.

I am going to work somewhere and I will make 20, 22, 25 an hour at a bare minimum. Not because I'm great or I'm special or uniquely talented. Because I have a pulse. Am I making a clear point? And so there's zero reason for him to go 36 months, and I'm putting it that way on purpose, without consistent income.

Uh, you know, I, and I have a heart for this. It's what I've been doing the last seven years at Ramsey solutions on the Ken Coleman show. It's coaching people who aren't where they want to be professionally, but there is no excuse for a man that has a wife and a child to go three years without consistent income three years with, um, industry, uh, volatility. Sure. That's happened.

So I want to make sure that the critics are really hearing what I'm saying. I'm not saying he hasn't gone through layoffs in maybe his industry or what, but you can go do something.

And we're talking about $30,000 a year is what she's making. Right, right, right. And he makes about $30,000 when he works. I've got to get my calculator out here. I'll give it to you. But I believe that $20 to $25 an hour range gets you there. It does. It's well over that. Let's just go $20 an hour times 40 hours a week. For those of you, it's $800. It says $3,200 a month. So that does it. Don't tell me that in America today...

You can't go get a $20 an hour job or a $15 an hour job and then a $16 an hour job. My point is I'm going to take care of my wife and I'm going to take care of my baby. Yep. So that's what I think. Carissa, the issue here is not that there is a lack of opportunity out there for him to go do that so that you can have the desires met. Yes.

The ball, in a sense, is in the relational court of your marriage, not the financial, because there is something that he, a mental block he has, whatever his thing is, and that's your issue. And now to get a man to see that, a husband to see that, who is in a belief system, obviously, that is not that, that is counter it, is difficult. You know what the bro needs? What?

He needs some grit. Mm-hmm. Good old-fashioned grit. Hey, dude, I know it sucks. Go landscape. I know it sucks. Go do some manual labor. Right. That's what I would tell him. Get some grit, man. I wish I had a big, fake, what do you call those things? I'm blanking out. You give people a shot. What do you call it? A syringe? Thank you. I need a big, giant, fake syringe, James, and it's filled with grit. Yeah.

I'll get right on that. Thank you. And I just bring it out on calls like this. I know this is horrible and they're making fun of me, but it's making the point. And I just hold it up. I go, you need a shot of this, my man. Help this woman out so that she can go home and take care of her babies. Because we've talked about this before on this show. Because she wants to. This is her desire. Being a stay-at-home mom is the highest honor and the greatest job on the planet. Period.

that's what i think i love it my heart's that can i mean amen hallelujah i mean it well let me tell you it's it's harder work to do that than to do what i'm doing right here chatting with adults right and by the way that's not that's right seriously yeah it is very difficult and by the way that's not to say to be a stay-at-home mom that i knock professional women because every time we do something i listen my wife you

was working outside of the home. One of my dearest friends on the planet, my little sis right here, she does it. I'm not knocking, I'm just saying we got to get to a point where there's no shame for stay-at-home moms. And the ideal within a marriage family unit like this is that both people individually, that your desires, your needs, your wants, your passions in life, all of it. How are we able to live in a world where both of you have that

And you can support each other within it, right? So that's holistically, I think, what makes part of a really healthy, beautiful relationship when that is in play. It doesn't happen all the time. It doesn't happen every season. But when you're kind of in that rhythm. That's right. And so when you can do that for each other. So for Helm, that's what I would say to Helm.

is like there is a level of sacrifice. Yes. And in reality and grown-up world that you're an adult with kids, like you have to go have a job. Like you have to make money. And then if your wife is able to stay at home after you go and do those things because that's her desire, like that's beautiful. Like that is something that we should all be reaching for to do the things that we want, right? That's a great point. I know that you and I could speak to this, but there are many times in our two marriages where –

Each one of our spouses has made sacrifices for us to do what we get to do. That's right. Yes. With the travel and the speaking. Yes, totally. Multiple. We could go down a list. And I think it's really important what you said that, you know, there are times where one of the spouse has got to make some massive sacrifices for the other spouse, knowing that your season is coming.

And it's just part of the deal. I believe that both can have what they want. They may not get it at the same time. No, that's right. But when you can set it up. So, yeah. It's a really good point. It's a long-winded answer for us. And I want to say this, too. We're talking about, in this case, $30,000. We're talking about, I'm giving this guy a hard time with my fake grit syringe and all the stuff I'm saying. But he could get to the point pretty quickly where she could come home.

Yes. Well, and their bills, I mean, they owe, you know, $3,700 on medical, which, you know, it's not $15,000. We got a car payment. That's a big chunk. But of $300 a month in the scope of life, though, is what I'm saying. This is manageable. This is manageable, right? This isn't two car loans that are $900 each, a student loan, $15,000 in medical debt, you know, $90,000. Like, it's not this, like, overwhelming amount. This is a very doable amount.

It's going to have to be, yeah, does he make the decision to do it or not? Boy, needs some grit. Good luck to you, Carissa. We'll be mailing out that syringe to you soon. James has already got one. He's Googled it. It's going to be ordered. It's going to be great. It's going to be a great prop. America's going to love it. Thanks, America, for a great hour. Thanks to everyone in the booth. And thank you, Ken Coleman. We'll be back.

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Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, Ken Coleman, and we'll be answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we'll chat about your life, your money, anything and everything. So give us a call.

Up first, we have Hunter starting us off in Oklahoma City. Hey, Hunter, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys? We are doing great. How can we help?

So I just finished the complete money makeover book. Me and my husband have been living off of a budget for the past year or so, and we were able to pay off our cards last year. And now we're just working on the remainder, which is our student debt. So we currently have $39,000 in student debt. Part of that's my husband's and then the other part is mine. And we have $20,000 in savings right now. So I'm

I'm just wondering, would it be better to pay off like my husband's student loan right now, which is $15,000. So pay it off right now. Or if we stay on track with our budget, we would be able to pay off the remainder within like pay it off altogether within the next four months and just pay it off like at one time. And I'm just wondering which one do you guys think would be better?

So the question is, do you pay one of them off today because you have the money or do you wait for four months and then pay them all off together? I would go ahead and pay it off. Yeah, go ahead and pay it today. I mean, I would start that momentum because as soon as you can hit the principal and get that lowered, then everything else ends up being more in your favor even over the next four months. So I would, yeah, I would for sure go ahead and pay some of it off today, get that momentum going. So let me ask a question to you.

what would keep you from paying the big chunk of it today? What's keeping you guys from doing that? You know, we just, we, my husband just got a bonus and I just got a raise within like the last like couple of weeks. So we kind of just acquired like a large amount into our savings account, which is super exciting. And I don't think that there's anything that's like stopping us. We're both on the same page of like, okay, we're so excited to pay off debt. Like,

We're pumped about it because it can happen really soon. We've both been blessed immensely. But I think, I just think of how exciting it would be to just pay it off all at one time and then just be done with it. I think that that's just what's exciting to me is like, oh, we could do it that way. But the other part is to just pay it off now and then pay off the other half later. Let me tell you why. Let me tell you. And I love that answer. And I believe you. I think that's an honest answer.

The challenge is the humanness in all of us. And so what happens or what could happen? Let me put it this way. What could happen, Rachel? At any point, tell me if you think this is off. I will. Always. Oh, I know. Like I even had to say that. But you got that money in the bank.

And it sits there. And the whole goal, it's earnest, it's honest, it's well-intentioned. We're going to wait until we get the whole chunk of $39,000, then we're going to pay it off. It's going to be woohoo and great fun. Okay. But you sit that money in the bank and you keep looking at that. You wake up every day and you wake up differently when you get a big chunk of change that goes in the account. You just do. You wake up. I do. Yeah, it feels great. And I go, I wake up and I go, oh my God, X amount of dollars in the bank.

And what happens is you get real comfortable with that money sitting in that account. And then you don't want to actually have that money leave. I remember the first time we got a fully funded emergency fund years and years ago. We first started this process long before I worked for Dave. An emergency would come up and I was coming up with ways. Not to use it. To not use it. Yes, totally. I'm making this up. $3,000 emergency.

And I'm selling stuff, breaking my back, stressing out. And Cece would go, we have the money. And I go, I know, but I don't want to pull it out of the account. Yes, totally. And so just being, I think, honest, the human condition is to hold on to that. And then life comes up and an opportunity comes up to do something. You go, oof.

We could pay off the student loan debt, Rachel, or we could go on this trip. And I think that's why we always say, act now. That's right. Get the win today. And I mean today. And you're still going to feel great when you're paying off the $19,000, right? You may be paying $4,000 next month, $5,000 the next. You're going to be chomping away at the $19,000 remaining. And it's still going to continue to feel great. And that momentum, what Ken's saying, you just kind of keep on this track and this trajectory, and you're going to do it.

So Hunter, great job. You agree with that, by the way? Yeah, 100%. We tend to sit on the money. 100%. Well, and people, hers is pretty short term being four months. Some people that are like, oh, I could wait 18 months. For sure don't do that because a Christmas trip comes up with the family and you want to travel and you pull some, you know what I mean? Like you end up not really sticking to the plan. So as much as you can, just staying on track helps your behaviors and the rhythms of your life.

All right, up next we have, is it Nadine in Chattanooga? I'm going to say Nadine. Nadine, did I, yeah, which one's right? I'm so sorry, Nadine. That's why you have me. I'm always your pronunciation guy. Gosh, the phonics. That's why I'm here. It's tough. All right, how can we help? Hey there, thanks for having me. It's Nadine, thank you. One point for Ken. I'm in a bit of a...

Weird pickle in a sense. I inherited my family's farm, my parents' farm, and some money, and it excluded my siblings.

And now they're, I, well, two out of three of them are millionaires. So the original will kind of mentioned like $10,000 each. And then, yeah.

And my dad had mentioned after my mom passed that he's going to put the farm in a trust, the little pass-through without probate, and he was going to change the will. I had no idea he'd cut out my siblings, and now they're all mad at me because they think...

I'm the one who did it. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So it's kind of like opposite of winning the lottery. You know, everyone wants to be your friend when you win, but when you inherit something, they feel like you're the bad person. And even if I were to, I mean, $10,000 is not going to make a huge difference in their lives.

Is that all that's left? Is that what you're saying? If you did split it four ways, is it just $10,000 to each person? Is that what it would be? No, actually, my parents are savers, so there was a little bit more than that. Okay. So what's your question for us? Is it what to do?

Yeah. I mean, $10,000 seems so nominal to be petty about, but even if I were to give it to them, I feel like it's never enough. Well, hold on a second. I'm still confused, and we have only about a minute here. Is the amount that was given to you, is how much? It was over, well, with the farm and everything, it was like half a million. Okay. Where do you keep coming up with this $10,000 number?

I don't understand. That was in the original will that my dad had before my mom passed. And is that what they're wanting? Is that $10,000 or are they wanting a fourth of the $500,000? That's the thing.

the thing. I'm not sure. Why don't you sit down with your siblings and have an honest conversation and go, guys, I had nothing to do with this, and that's why I wanted to have the conversation. What do you all prefer we do? What do you all think is fair? If that's what you want to do. Now, you've got two directions. You can either say, I'm going to honor Dad's will, and I'm going to deal with the fallout, or I don't want to deal with the fallout. I love my siblings. Let's get in a room and solve it. Yeah, we're all adults here. Let's figure it out. This is pretty easy. And again, if they are...

competent, healthy people and you can do that. That's great. Millionaires too. Yeah, it's true. Oh, I hope that helps. Thanks for the call. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey folks, we all have stories. The family and cultural stories that we were born into, the stories of the things that have happened to us, both good and bad, and the stories that we constantly tell ourselves.

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I don't know about you, but I love the new year. It's a fresh start and I get to reflect on the good things I want to keep doing and the not so good things I want to change.

And I know a lot of you are psyching yourself up thinking, okay, this year I've got to get my finances in order. And big goals like that are really exciting, but they can also be overwhelming. That's why it's so important to have a plan. So before you do anything else, start with a budget. Start with every dollar. I love every dollar because it's so easy to plan out your spending and keep track of it every month.

Plus, most people free up on average $400 in their first budget to go towards their goals. Guys, this could be an amazing year. And if you choose just one good habit to start, choose budgeting. Download the EveryDollar budgeting app for free today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Ken Coleman. And we're going to Wilmington, North Carolina and talking to Jeff. Hey, Jeff, welcome to the show.

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? So I'm powering through the baby steps. I'm about halfway through baby step two. I'm paying off all my debts and I've gotten to my next smallest debt, which is my wife's student loans. The balance is about $8,500 and with our debt snowball, we can kill this in about four months and I'm ready to do so. But there's a caveat that I can't find the answer to. So it went into default.

before we were married and we have now entered a loan rehabilitation program with the department of education. And the deal is if we make nine months of consecutive payments, they'll remove the default status from the loans and transfer it back out to a normal servicer. So unless with two options,

Either A, I can debt snowball this and kill it in four months, but I'm stuck with that word default on my credit history, even though it's a paid in full account, or I stretch it out, keep accruing that interest, and go through the program to remove the word default from my credit history and just do it that way. And I really don't know which one's more, or I should say less harmful to me.

Well, the only reason I'd be really concerned is if you are needing your credit score credit reports for a reason, right? So the main reason someone would pull your credit score, obviously, is to go into more debt.

Also, your credit report, if you're looking for a new job, you know, maybe an employer pulls it. But if there's any situation that they pull your credit report and you have another human that you're talking to and being able to discuss and talk through why that is why it is and be able to explain it, then I mean, I would get out. I don't like I always hate playing the system game of trying to like, you know.

figure our way through it because of this, that, or that. You know what I mean? I like the idea of paying it off, being done with it, and then in the next 12 to 18 months, if someone pulls your credit report for a reason, to be able to actually have a human conversation about why that word defaulted is on there. And honestly, Jeff, when it comes to student loans and defaulting and all that with COVID and everything that happened, you're not going to be the only one either. I mean, it's not like it's this...

you know, thing. Now, it may drop, it may hurt your credit score. So, if you guys are, you know, if you're going to go borrow money, which I wouldn't suggest you do, then it could hurt that, you know, the loan process. But I don't want you doing that anyways.

Okay, you don't think it'll haunt me when I try to get a mortgage in a couple years? Not in a couple years. At that point, your credit score will basically be non-existent because if you stop borrowing money after this and you're done with debt completely, your credit score will continue to actually get worse because the way the credit score is calculated, you need new debt recurring to continue and paying on it to keep that credit score high. So when you stop this process, and anyone listening that is doing the debt snowball, always know this, your credit score is going to go down

until it gets to undetermined. It basically gets to zero. And then when you do that and go and buy a home, they're going to pull it and see that you don't have a credit score because you haven't borrowed money in over two years. And you can do what's called manual underwriting and get a mortgage that way. Okay. Thank you very much. Yep. Absolutely. Thanks for the call, Jeff. So that's, yeah, that's a big, that's a big reason I get so annoyed with this whole industry is they like make you play these games, right? And if you're like, I'm not playing your games.

And I'm going to figure out a way to actually do the plan that I want to do. And I want to get out of debt in four months and not wait nine, 10, 11 months to play this game. It's so frustrating because a lot of people, I mean, it's a very legitimate question that Jeff asked. And I think a lot of people get in those situations and they're like, yeah, what do I do? But when you just kind of don't play their game, it's amazing that you can still survive. And really a different form of consolidation. The best consolidation is the baby steps and the snowball. Really the debt snowball does. It's like you're consolidating your money and,

towards that debt. That's where the greatest momentum is. It's not through one of these consolidation programs. It's like, all right, I'm going to consolidate my own payments and really work that debt snowball. That is absolutely the number one psychological and financial way to pay off debt, period. It just works. Up next, we have Stacey in Philadelphia. Hey, Stacey, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for having me. Absolutely. So my question, so I have,

a bit of problems, me and my husband, we recently purchased a house over the summer and we've gotten into a lot of pretty much debt, even more than we had before, just from purchasing the home with renovations. So we want to know what steps should we prioritize to manage and pay off our current debt, given we have the renovation loan that we took out, our student loans and car payment.

And even with credit card debt. Okay. Will you give me a list of the numbers of everything? So like how much in credit card debt, how much in car debt, everything. Okay. So the car we owe about 15,000. Okay. Student loans. It's about 130 for the both of us. Okay. Yeah. And that's just our undergraduate loan. And then our renovation loans, we took out about,

$70,000. Okay. And then with credit card debt in total with both my husband and I, it's about, I would say, $60,000. What were you using the credit cards for?

Yeah, so we used the credit cards. Just a little bit back story. When we took out the loans, it was to pay a contractor to do work in our home, but the contractor did not finish everything that he did not actually complete what he promised to do. So we ended up having to use our credit card to cover a lot of the other expenses. We had other contractors and even people to come in and fix some of the issues that he had left with the house.

along with just buying appliances and everything. All right. What's your combined income? So maybe about $75,000. It would be close, with his two jobs, roughly about $180,000. Okay. And you said that's for our undergrad. When I asked you about student loans, do you guys have more student loans that's not undergrad, or you're just saying we just have our undergrad degrees? Yeah, just our undergrad degree. Okay, perfect.

All right. So, Stacey, I need to know your why. What's making you guys want to clean all this up? Because, yeah, yeah, you kind of got a mess on your hands. And what's what kind of got you to this point of, oh, gosh, we got to start paying this off?

Well, one, he ended up getting a part-time job and it's just been a lot where all of our money is just going towards bills or we find that we don't have any other wiggle room to do anything else. Yeah. And then we just, it's,

On March, we'll make a two-year anniversary since we've gotten married. So we're a pretty young couple, and my husband would like to go back to school eventually and go into medical school. And he has that dream since he was a child. So essentially, we would love to pay off our debt so we can start living our lives again. What's his degree in? Right now, we're just drowning. What world is he in right now? You said he's got a full-time job and a part-time job?

Yes, they're both in the health field. Okay, and is the part-time job just to help pay these bills? Yes. Oh, okay, I got you.

Well, you guys are going to have to dig out of this. Yeah. We got a plan. So, I mean, Stacey, here's that. One of the reasons I ask you why is because you're going to have to feel that really deeply in this process because you guys have, you know, you are going to have to have a lot of intentionality because there's a lot of debt here. And so what you're going to look at, and I'm just running the numbers. I'm like, if you guys made 180 and even if you went and got an extra job,

and made $1,000 more, right? You could get up to 192. Like you guys could be on the brink of $200,000 income today

And completely scorched earth in your lifestyle. Not going on vacation. Not going out to eat. Doing zero more furniture buying. No renovations. No trips with friends. No celebration on the two-year. Sell a car. Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. And if you can do that and you guys could live on, let's say $70,000 a year. You got $120,000 to $130,000 freed up.

And you can sit there, pay off that car. You go down the list. So it's the car, it's the credit cards, and then next is the reno, and then the student loans. So you go smallest to largest. And if you have multiple credit cards in that, then I would...

Split those up where you have each individual card within that debt snowball. Again, listing all of your debt smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything, Stacey, and attack that smallest debt first and working your way out of this. It's going to take some time and intentionality, but you can do this.

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slash Ramsey. Hey, Dave Ramsey here. Dr. John Deloney and I are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. You, the audience, will vote to choose the topics we talk about, things that impact your life, like investing in your future, money, stress, and marriage,

and more. We're coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Kansas City, Fort Worth, and Phoenix in April and May 2025. Tickets are at their lowest price right now. Grab yours at ramseysolutions.com slash tour. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Coming up next, we have Jana in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, Jana, welcome to the show. Hi there. Hello, hello. How can we help?

Hi. Well, I'm making this phone call a little earlier than I anticipated. My husband and I have worked really hard and paid off our home. We'll have paid off our home this January. We have our last $5,000 left on our home and will be paid at the end of the month. Oh my gosh, Jana. That's amazing. I mean, paid off everything.

Yeah, just 5,000 left. However, I'm really... Actually, I wish I could be celebrating, and I'm so upset right now. My husband just left our home at 3 o'clock this morning to drive across the country to buy a brand-new truck. I guess this is his way of celebrating, but we haven't even done it yet. Unfortunately, we're going to have to take out a car loan for the brand-new truck that he is traveling across the country for. And I'm just...

This is a total surprise. Oh, Gina. Yeah. Yeah.

With more debt. Okay, so... Was he on board all this time? Like, he's been with you? Oh, yeah. We've been... We are the dream team, yes. I don't know what... When did you find out about this car purchase? Was this, like, yesterday? Oh, he's been saying it forever. Like, forever. He wants this...

you know, the doctor, like Dave Ramsey. And so I just always, I'm like, after our house is paid off, after our house is paid off, after our house is paid off, and obviously when we can afford it, right? I'm not taking out a loan. And he just- Okay, so if I heard you right, okay, so if I heard you right, he got up this morning at 3 a.m. today and told you, hey, I'm heading out

And you say, I mean, please don't. And he says, you don't even know. He doesn't discuss this at all. He just literally says, matter of fact, I'm going across the country to get a Raptor like Dave Ramsey.

I mean, we've had lots of talks on this truck, and he knows I don't agree. And he says, I'll never agree. I don't handle well big purchases. Well, I just paid off a $300,000 home. I can handle big purchases. I just can't handle down purchases. So, okay, you've got to give us a little bit more here. I'm sorry. I'm going to dig a little bit, Rachel. Okay. That's fine. All right. So this conversation, he's been on board and paying off the house and the debt and the baby steps. Oh, yeah.

But how long has the, I'm going to go into debt for a Raptor, how long has that conversation been going on? And when was the last time it was had before 3 a.m. this morning? Right. So maybe for the past two months, he's like, I'm just going to do it. I don't care what it takes. And you say...

I'm not on board with you. Not at all. I don't agree. Okay. So while today was the day, he'd been kind of tipping his hand that he was going to go do this and I'm going to go get a loan. How big is the loan? Well, probably about, he's going to trade in his truck. We had another $30,000. So I think it'll be around $30,000. And how much is left on the house again? Five? Yeah. Yeah.

So I really, in the big scheme of things, will pay it off quickly. I'm just angry. How much do you get? Well, yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, and the anger and the hurt comes from not being hurt at all and that your opinion doesn't matter. That there's no pause in the person you're doing life with, your partner, your spouse, that there's no back and forth. It's this like dominant,

I, I, one way and you know, I'm not going to listen to you. I'm going to do what I want to do. Um, that is hurtful in anything. Right. And this could be a husband calling us and his wife's like, I don't care. I'm going to go do what I want to do. Like, I mean, it doesn't, you know, it's not a, um, look, you know, a wife, husband thing. It's a, it's a spouse, right? Like you're, you're Rachel and I commiserate with you. We're here to listen here to encourage you. But I can tell you right now, this is a, this is a marriage therapy session or two or three or six. Yeah.

I'm serious. That's how I feel today, for sure. Does it sound like him, Jana? I'm curious. Like, is this, oh, yeah, I can see him doing this. I can't believe he's driving across country for this. Well, not that, but I'm just saying not listening to you. Not the actual idea of buying a truck, but this idea that he would go make a decision.

that you so adamantly do not want him to make, and he still makes it. Is this a pattern? Yeah, does that happen in other parts of your marriage? No, not at all. Not at all. We have a great marriage and great relationship. Yeah, you know what I think? I think this guy has been on board, and he was like, okay, this all makes a lot of sense. But what also makes sense is after we do all this, we can handle the truck payment, and I'm going to go do it. He's been telegraphing this for months. Yeah, how much do you guys make a year? Yeah.

I brought in, I think, 137 last year, and we haven't finished up his yet, but it's between 140 and 145. Yeah. I don't think this is a crisis based on what I'm hearing, but I do think this is a marital. No, listen, I'm trying to validate your feelings. Everything you're feeling, I completely understand, and I completely understand why you're feeling that. I think you should feel that.

But I don't think that there's only so much. And I'm saying this philosophically, you know, there's only so much Rachel I can do today other than say, man, we feel you. I don't think that's right. I don't think it's a good marriage move. Should have talked it through. Should have come up with an alternative plan. He knows how much this means to you.

Um, but then I will also say the reason that why I believe you guys need to sit with a marriage therapist is because I can also see, I don't agree with his action at all, but I think I'm seeing a window into this, this dude. And I think he thinks it's justified. And I, here's what I would say, not knowing him at all. And if I met him for the first time, I said, Hey, uh, Jana just called me on the show and she told me what happened. Hey, listen, bro. Um,

I don't think you think that's as big a deal as it is. It's a big deal. He's minimized it. I think so. And I think because he's justified. And because he makes almost $300,000 a year. He's crunched numbers. We're paid off the house. We have no debt. We'll pay it off in two months or whatever. In his mind, and I'm not defending him. No. But I am trying to make maybe, Jana, you feel a little bit better. I think this is a situation where he is completely unaware of how he is truly making you feel.

I think he's clueless. And I'm not insulting him. I'm saying we are all that way in relationships at times where we are in a place where we're not healthy enough or we're not attached enough that we don't realize what we're doing. Yeah, in the truck conversations that you guys have been having in the last few months, Jana, have you said, I would love for you to get this truck? Let's map it out. And in May, let's take a road trip and go pick up this truck together. I'm so excited for this truck for you. Like, have you... Did you have...

Any excitement and celebratoriness Towards this truck for him At any level? No, Rachel, I did not No, that's fair I appreciate your honesty I have a hard time with it So I think that's going to be The relational rub that you guys are feeling Is he doesn't feel I'm assuming, we're all guessing here

That you are so gung-ho on this. You don't want to spend any money. You're fear-based. You're scarcity-minded. Life is fine. We make $300,000 a year. In the grand scheme of things, yes, in six months, none of this is going to matter. Jana, have some fun. Now I'm going to have to go make my own fun and enjoy this

And again, not the right move, not the right move, but right, that's his mindset. So you guys, you guys have to come together. And that's where, Jana, I would really push you and him. I hope he listens to this call. That you have to embrace the differences of your spouse and that your spouse's differences is not the enemy. And in fact, they can make you a healthier, rounded person.

because he's going to bring things to the table, Jana, that may make you uncomfortable, not debt, but the fun and the spending. And he's going to bring that and you need to embrace life and he's going to help you do that. And then also he doesn't need to be a freaking, I won't say it. And

And just like basically middle finger your wife and go in the middle of the night and go get a truck. That was not okay. I do not agree with that. I got to add this. Our friend, mutual friend, Ian Cron, we were together yesterday. He said, when we're upset at somebody over their behavior, we're really irritated. He goes, it reveals in us something where we can grow. And I'm adding that onto what your advice and your insight. I thought that was really good. We're going to leave it there. Pay this truck off. Thanks, Jana. Pay the truck off. You'll be okay. I'm sorry, though. Get a therapist in there. It'll be good.

Alright, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at RamseySolutions.com slash Agents.

agent. RamseySolutions.com slash agent. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. When it comes to your money, Ken, one of the largest purchases that majority of people make is their home. Yes. And when it comes to buying and selling your home, it can be very overwhelming, right? The whole housing market, the industry. When it comes to real estate, it can be really hard to tackle, especially alone.

And so that's why we created Ramsey's Real Estate Homebase. It's a place with all the tools and resources that you need to be prepared when you buy and sell your home and to give you the confidence that you're doing it the right way. So there you're going to find calculators, a start to finish guide, multiple of them to help you, how-to articles, a podcast, a book, and even a video course, all packed with actionable steps to help you navigate this process of buying and selling your home.

So if you're ready to take the next step towards your home goals with peace of mind, make sure to go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate or click the link in the description if you are listening on YouTube or podcast. All right, up next, we're going to Diego in Sacramento. Hey, Diego, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. Absolutely. My wife and I just had a baby, and we've been having a discussion about opening a college account for him at 529. And my wife's on the side of saving as much as we can, enough to pay for his whole college tuition. And I'm more on the side of maybe not doing that just because, you know, for me, when I went to school, I didn't have that. And I think it built a lot of character in myself.

Um, you know, my parents, they provided a place for me to sleep. Um, you know, they, they didn't charge me any rent and, you know, they provided food for me every day. So, um, I felt like I was really blessed that in what they gave me, you know, and what they could. Um, and I felt like it, you know, it built some character in me. I worked through school and, and it, um, you know, showed me like, you know, the value of money and how, you know, um, you know, what I'm paying for it for school, it, you know, it, it,

It just shows me the value in it. So I just wanted to get your guys' opinion on whether maybe there's like a middle point between my wife and I or maybe you should just avoid it altogether or, yeah, saving all of it that we can. Maybe that's a good thing. Well, I think this comes down to, Rachel, how big of a stressor this is for you guys when you talk about it. Are you both pretty adamant and it gets kind of tense and there's a lot of separation? Or are you guys...

a couple more conversations from going, okay, I see it your way. What's the real tension level now on this? Oh, super low. I mean, we're very good about communicating. We've never had a problem with that. So when you told her your point of view, did she agree with you and go, hmm, that's interesting? Or did she go, eh, it's too old school and I want to help?

No, yeah, she says, yeah, pretty much what you're saying. Yeah, like she would prefer, you know, us having more, you know, better means than our parents did. She's saying like we should, we should afford something that we didn't have. So let me tell you, Diego, your, the way you're going about this and your heart and your thought process, I really love because I do think,

that our kids have to have grit. Our kids have to have a level of struggle. Our kids have to be able to know how to appreciate things, not be entitled, know how to work hard, right? Like all of these elements of who they're going to be, the character part of them, we all want as parents, right? Or at least I hope parents want that for their kids. And that's what you're wanting, right? And so what you're thinking is you're going to do it through the means of paying for their own college. So where I would challenge you is,

Are there other places that they can learn those same character qualities and also be able to have their college paid for?

Because Diego, my parents paid for my college. And I'll tell you, there was stipulations around it. And so we had to go to an in-state school. We had to graduate in four years. And that was kind of the main barriers. So I remember thinking, you know, I went to go to Auburn University and I remember dad being like, all right, well, calculate the tuition and the difference between

a school in Tennessee, a public university in Tennessee, minus the tuition of a school in Alabama, you pay the difference. And I looked and I was like, no, thanks. Go Vols. I'll go instead. And then it was all right. Well, now I have to take 15 hours every semester while some of my friends were taking nine. So, you know, cause people will graduate a semester late or a year later. And they kind of just like work their way through. I had to be on a screw. You know what I mean? Like I,

I had to have that schedule. So I think it's a misnomer to generalize. If your school is paid for, you're not going to have hard work and grit.

I don't think that's true. I think it's a way that you feel that Winston, my husband, you know, he had to work his way through not the tuition part, but everything else he had to figure out. He had to have a job to pay rent and pay for food and all of that. Right. So, but I, so I think that there are ways to accomplish what you want for your kids and it may look different. And I'll give you one more example. Now I'll be quiet and like, can I jump in? But like for us right now, Diego, we have a nine, seven and five year old.

And Winston sold his lawnmower about three years ago. And we have a lawn company mow our lawn. And he really, really struggled with our kids not growing up watching him mow the lawn.

Because he had a lawn care business in college and he was like, I want my kids to see physical. He was so hard on himself on that. But then as we talked, he was like, but right now my time is better spent with them on Saturdays than going and doing that. What are ways now that we almost have to manufacture a life where they don't get what they want? They're going to have to work.

and do things to get what they want. So does that make sense? I just don't want to overgeneralize that if your college is paid for, you're going to be some spoiled entitled brat. Because let me tell you, there probably are some spoiled entitled brats whose college is paid for and isn't paid for, but it's more of the character of who they are.

And maybe it's revealed to that. And I'm glad you really segued nicely for me. You didn't even know. I'm going to throw a different angle at you, Diego. Because on one hand, I love the fact that you're going, I don't owe my kids a college education. And I don't think you do. But I'm not going to qualify this. I'm just going to say this. And this comes from experience. Diego...

Just because you worked your way through college and you took all the benefits that you obviously did doesn't mean that your child or children are going to do the same as you. They aren't you, number one. They really aren't. They aren't you. They will have some of your DNA, but...

they are not you and they will have different experiences. They will have different environments growing up. And I think one of the challenges that we face, and I'm just being really vulnerable here that I've had to learn as a father of three is that the things that I did, the things that I learned, the way that I handled life is so unique to me. And I know I'm saying something that's completely obvious, but I think we forget this. And I would just say that in this case, if you played this out,

The way that you desire. Let's say your wife just went, I love that, Diego. Let's do that.

There's a really high, high probability that one or both or all of your kids, however many you have, won't deal with it the way that you dealt with it. And they may go, dad's out of his mind, the old coot. He's a goofball and I'm going to go get a student loan because I can. And they get it done so effortlessly. And the very thing that you idealized and kind of thought, this is how I see it going, it would even break your heart. And so to that end, I would say, if you can learn,

Fund it. You should. As an option. And the 529, as we teach, I'll give it back to my partner here. It's flexible as to how you can use those funds for lots of qualifications because the world... Here's the other thing. The world's changing. The world is changing so quickly right now. What will higher ed look like when these babies are to that age? You and I have zero clue what it's going to look like. So I hope that perspective helps you identify

I don't think it's as easy as you just going, this is how I want to be because that's how it was for me. And I get that. If anybody gets that, believe me, I actually talk like that sometimes. You know me well. I'm trying to be transparent. And I think that's true. And I think, and again, I want to reiterate Diego's

The sentiment of what you're longing for your kids to have is so good. Like, that is so good. Absolutely. Because we want our kids to be able to do that. And you're right. Other ways to do it. But I think that there is. I'm like, there's different other, and there's so much between. And like, have them pay for their car when they're 60. Right? I mean, like, there's things you can implement along the way. Have them try an instrument. A sport. A hobby.

hobby let them fail and they're going to and the world's hard enough in general right I'm like they're gonna bump up against it but I think you can create an environment within your home between now and 18 that creates you know I knock on wood I believe this and I hope it's true you know not perfect kids

But kids that you are able to shape under your household and you as a parent get to put some of those guardrails in place. And if you give them everything they want, are they going to be more spoiled? Sure. If they got to work and figure out and problem solve, then that's going to be good for them too. So I think there's ways you can do it. But thanks for the call, Diego. Thanks for all the guys in the booth. Thank you, Ken Coleman. Thank you, America. We'll be back.