Your Feelings Don’t Build Wealth — Discipline Does
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Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work,

that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walsh, our number one best-selling author. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. It is a free call. Nathaniel is in New York City. Hi, Nathaniel. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi there. Super happy to be here. Glad to have you. How can we help?

Good. Let me try to be brief. So I'm 26 years old. I'm a law student, got no debt, got a job lined up at a big corporate law firm once I graduate.

And actually, doing better than that, a few years ago, I inherited about a million dollars. Wow. Nice. Yeah. This inheritance, to me, it's like I treat it like a sacred gift from God. And I feel like I have a responsibility to be a really excellent steward of it. So I'm very safe, principal protection, investment strategy for this money. It's in a trust account. Only I control it. I got a financial advisor on it. Feeling good about that. Good.

Good. Thing one. Thing two, I'm getting married in a few months. I've been dating my now fiance for almost four years. She's the youngest of many siblings. She has no assets or liabilities of her own, virtually no income potential. She's a pianist, but we're actually happy about this arrangement. She wants to be a mom. I'll be a breadwinner. This seems good. My question was about my future in-laws. So her parents are retired.

They actually live in China and they lost a lot of money by mortgaging their fully paid for apartment for leverage in a risky investment, which of course failed. And there's something like $25,000 in the hole. So I guess my question is, I'm thinking about,

how I should manage this. Like, what's the right thing to do here? This would be my future in-laws. Like on the one hand, they're a family. I could pay off their debt, like literally 40 times over. Would I be a jerk not to? But on the other hand,

Part of me doesn't really feel like using my money, soon to be our money, to help people who in retirement mortgages are only safe asset for leverage in a single risky investment. Are they asking you for help? No, I'm just thinking ahead. In fact, my fiance doesn't actually know about the full extent of my wealth. And I haven't really been sure how to explain this to her. Interesting. So you know this about the in-laws. The in-laws don't know about your wealth, nor are they asking for you to do anything about it.

Correct. Interesting. I'm just, yeah, thinking ahead on what, because I imagine this could come up. Yeah. Okay. Full stop. You don't go another day promising to marry somebody and you're keeping secrets from them. That's the first thing. Yep. Unhealthy, dude. Unhealthy. You guys got to sit down with somebody and unpack what's going on between the two of you.

She has to know what's going on in your life. You don't marry somebody and, oh, surprise, I have a million dollars in debt. Or surprise, I have a million dollars in high-yield savings accounts because I got this inheritance and I didn't want to tell you. No, that doesn't work. This is somebody you're going to spend your life with. And you've got to be able to trust them. If you can't trust them, you don't need to be able to marry them.

Okay. So we've got to work on that immediately. And while you're doing that, you can just have this discussion, not in the same breath, but a week later after you come clean. But then you just say, Hey, I'm worried about this and I'm a little bit conflicted. I kind of feel like I want to help. I kind of don't want anybody asking me to help. And I kind of don't want to reward bad behavior because,

and I'm conflicted. And I think that's a wonderful thing to discuss with your spouse. Wonderful. And see what she says. And if she says, well, of course you have to help. Well, now we've got another problem, right? That's a good indicator of issues. Now we've got another problem. So like I was, a friend of mine's kids were getting married and the young man, his mother was a single mom who didn't have any money.

And the marriage counselor, the pre-marriage counselor asked them, well, what would happen if y'all are married and have your own life and his mom gets in financial trouble? And he just instantly said, oh, she'd move in with us.

And the fiance's head spun around twice. Oh, I bet. And said, I don't think so. We hadn't talked about that. I don't think so. You need another plan for mama. Yeah. And, you know, and, you know, so that's the kind of stuff you need to get. That's really good, healthy things to be on the same page about before you go in. And then whatever the two of you decide together that you can both work through the awkwardness on will be okay with me. There's not an ethical or legal, as you know, thing.

mandate that you take care of them. But it is a small amount of money compared to the amount of money you're dealing with. And so you could reach over with absolutely no impact on your life and pay off their little debt and set them up. But you don't want to do that if they're going to turn and do the same kind of stupid stuff again. So I want to get into the

under the hood and find out what's broken that caused them to be stupid in the first place. And is it a track record? Yeah, is this like a pattern or are we going to do it again or have we learned our lesson? Because I did stupid stuff and went broken and never did it again as I learned my lesson, right?

And so, you know, that doesn't invalidate me. We didn't talk about this, but Nathaniel, I mean, you're in law school. You've got this big chunk of money. Are you thinking about like a prenuptial agreement? Is that what's caused you to hold off on telling her this? Yeah, maybe I should clarify that a little bit more. I think initially, so this came somewhat recently. It was kind of a surprise to me. I had no idea this was coming. And also, I just...

There was a part of me that wanted to make sure to feel secure that she's interested in me only because of me and not the fact that I happen to have the pot of gold behind me. And I live a lifestyle which doesn't at all reflect that I have the pot of gold behind me. Yeah, you can do that in about a week. Yeah. Yeah, you don't lead with the fact that you have a million dollars that you inherited, but I don't think that you keep it a secret for as long as you have.

Right. Yeah. I mean, she knows I'm not suffering. She knows I've never been struggling from anything like that. Right, but that's a lot different than knowing somebody just inherited a million dollars. Those are two completely different things. You need to get on the phone. You guys need to sit down in the next 24 hours and talk about this, dude. If you can't talk to her about this because of this or this or this or this or this and you've got 73 reasons, you don't need to marry this girl.

Because, dude, I mean, you're going to be swapping unbelievable tragedies over the next 40 years together. Unbelievable blessings over the next 40 years together. And if you can't get, you can't even get this to come out of your mouth because you've got 73 reasons you're worried about her, then this ain't marriage material, dude. You've got to get this straight. Yeah.

No, no, you do not. If you have to deceive someone because you're worried about their authenticity, we don't marry them. Well, honestly, that's more on his authenticity than her. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? I feel like Nathaniel, you're more of the problem here than...

And they are. Yeah. Nine out of 10, Nathaniel needs to come clean. One out of 10, pay off the 25K or don't. Yeah, that's how this weighs out on this call. This is The Ramsey Show.

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions. Possibly, yeah. Yeah, I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions, for one thing, are non-profit, which means that the members, the customers, own the credit unions.

the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking, and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer-centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds.

They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer. They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service. And the deals that they're offering, the Ramsey Tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love it. The things that we teach, they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. Yeah. And I'm not kidding. It took less than five minutes.

it was so user-friendly. Like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I...

I so, so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds.

and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Fairwinds is federally insured by NCUA. Mark's in San Antonio. Hey, Mark, what's up? Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hey, I am struggling with getting my wife and I on the same page on getting out of debt. I've been an avid listener for you guys only about two months, but yeah, multiple times a day I'm trying to catch up on Spotify and Instagram.

I'm really buying in. I really, I think the only says drinking the Kool-Aid. I want to go gazelle intense and really get after everything. And I got, I got the heavy dollar, every dollar I did our budget. And we have a lot of debt and my wife is not as terrified about it as I am. I just need you. I wanted some advice on how I want to get her to see things my way, but I'm smart enough to know that we have to see things the same way, not my way. That's good. Um,

Does she listen? Does she listen at all to the show? She does not. Have you sent it to her just to say, hey, I've been listening to this podcast. I really like it. You might like it too. I've said a couple things. She likes the message. She doesn't always like Dave's delivery. So it's hard to get her to follow through with it. Okay. Yeah. I think you know this, but the way that I'm hearing it is you're going to... Wait a minute. You didn't send her the podcast. You sent her social media clips.

Uh, yeah, probably. I think she ever heard a podcast on the Bluetooth in my truck when Dave was on. Yeah. Cause my delivery, my delivery in the social media clips is a hundred percent smart ankle, but it's different on the podcast. If you listen to the whole thing in context, that's right.

So, yeah, I don't like me on social media. Yeah, it's meant to be controversial. It's meant to push people, you know, make them think. It's meant to get 40 million views. That's right. That's what it's meant to do, and it does. But it has nothing to do with who I really am or how this message works. So, yeah, I would be careful with that anyway. But anyway, the thing, the mistake that most people make, including me with Sharon on some things, is I would ask you,

Okay, you said, I'm ready to drink the Kool-Aid. I want to get out of debt. I'm ready to do all this stuff. I'm ready to be gazelle intense. And my question is, why? Why are you doing that? I make good money. I'm a young man. I mean, I think I'm a young man. I'm 27. I make really good money, but it's paycheck to paycheck, and that's how my wife and I both grew up. Why do you want to do this stuff?

I want to give my kids the life I didn't have. Ah, there it is. A good why. Good why. How many kids you got? Two. Good. Okay. So guys are worse than ladies on this. We generally, when we come to our wives with something, we tell them what instead of why. And if you'll tell her why a lot, she'll start asking about the what.

Because there's very few women on the planet, unless they've got psychological disorder, that when their husband looks at them and says, I want to give our children a better life and I'm terrified, they say, oh, we don't want to do that. So she agrees. She wants to get out of debt. And she even explained the snowball and things. She likes the process. She just doesn't have the same intensity. Well, of course. You have about 5,000 more hours of information than she does. Uh-huh.

Sure. What happened? Can I ask you about like the catalyst to all this? What happened that you found Ramsey or that made you start listening to the show? What in your life kind of made you go, I need to look for something here? I have a long commute to work.

And so you're just listening to, and I've seen the social media clips and I like what you say. So I started listening to the podcast. Okay. Okay. So go back, go back to that. Then again, the, you saw the social media clips and it scratched an itch. That's Jade's point. Okay. And even if the delivery is not her style, uh, which is perfectly acceptable, that completely understand that.

Um, my wife doesn't care for my delivery, so that's okay. And so, but the, uh, um, but it's compelling and it works. So we're going to, we're going to keep doing it. But the, uh, uh, anyway, the, the, uh, whatever the itch was, it's scratch that caused you to go down this rabbit hole.

This Ramsey rabbit hole. That's what we need to just keep talking about with her instead of like, are we going to do the debt snowball? Cause intensity doesn't come from information. Intensity comes from buying a dream. Sure.

We sacrifice, we live like no one else so that later we can live like no one else. And we believe that if we plant corn seed in the hot sun and we get the hoe out and get calluses, hoe in the weeds out, that the corn is going to come in and bring us a lot bigger crop. Otherwise, we wouldn't do all that crap.

You know, you're not going to pay a price unless you think you're going to win. I mean, nobody goes to the gym. Well, most people don't go to the gym because it's fun. They go because they're tired of being overweight. They're tired of being out of shape. But people's tipping point is different to get there. Yeah, exactly. You're tipping point.

point to use Dave's analogy, you step on the scale and you see 185 pounds, that could be like, that's it. I've had it. I'm going to the gym. That might not be somebody else's tipping point. Somebody else's tipping point might be they go to put their jeans on and the button's too tight or they go to sit on the plane and they feel like they're too squished in on the plane. Do you see what I'm saying? So you had a tipping point that scratched a niche that you had. She's got to feel that. And I think the way that you do that is you have these conversations, you make it very clear on the why and you

This is not a light switch. Very rarely do you have one about something major like this. Very rarely do you have one conversation and that's it. That's settled. We've decided. Usually this is more of a process. And some of the things that I think will help along that process is

To your point, if you are living paycheck to paycheck, there are going to be many symptoms that are playing out in your lives today. So as those things play out, say, honey, this is just the type of thing. These are the types of things I want to make better. Do you see how much struggle that was to pay that bill? And then you can start to show her, here's some of the symptoms that we're feeling and she's going to get on board. But I think the idea that

hey, I'm just going to say this. She's going to be excited and we're going to ride off into the sunset in one night. It could mean a lot to me if you would listen to this stuff and tell me what I'm missing here with this because I'm really excited about this idea because I've been so scared for so long and I really want to change our family tree. I really want our kids to have a different life and the way we've been living with the kind of money we make is not okay with me. I want us to prosper. I

I want us to end up with something at the end of the story. I want the kids to have a different life and just keep talking about that kind of stuff. Instead of talking about when you sell your car and let's get on the debt snowball, you need to be more intense and you ought to go get a job and start talking about all these what's nobody lines up on the what's until they get the wise.

So you got to talk about why, why, why, why, why? And you can talk about your why and you ask her, okay, what would it be like for you? Dream together, dream in HD, high definition dreams. What would it be like for you if we had a million dollars?

I mean, the best question I remember when I used to listen to the show long before I worked here is what would life feel like if you had no payments? You know, that's. I feel like they have no debt. I mean, we were putting this much away. What could we do with that money? What would it feel like to get our paycheck every, you know, twice a week or once a month, whatever it is. And it's just our money and we get to decide together the fun things we want to do with it. That's a great question to ask. Yeah. So, yeah. Those of you that are just picking up on this stuff, be real careful that

Either one of us and our personalities or the stuff that we teach or the name Ramsey becomes a cuss word in your house because you use it as a club on somebody like, you know, because like suddenly you got smart and everybody else is dumb. And and you come in there swinging the bat at everybody and they're like, I don't like this Ramsey stuff. I don't even know what it is. I don't like it.

Of course, they're not going to do it. But that's you coming in and saying, you know, we're stupid and we're not doing this anymore and we're selling your car. And what? No, I don't think so, buddy. And all of a sudden, you've got a spouse that's not plugged in. And instead, you got it. And the other thing is this very rarely.

are both spouses at the same intensity level exactly the entire time. That's so true, Dave. So true. It's an unrealistic expectation. Yeah. You can balance each other out and push each other where one is falling off. And you know what I'm saying? I need some level of intensity. That's right. But if you're, if you know, Mark, if you're running at a 12,

If she's running at an eight and you're running in the same direction, you're going to be fine. Yeah, that's great. It's if she's running at a zero or a negative four, that's when you've got a problem, right? But yeah, it's okay. But all of that comes back to why not what? And listen to this guy. He's telling us we're stupid. Because I will tell you that. Because I love you and I want you to stop being stupid. See, there's that delivery thing right there. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Are you staying on track with the baby steps? Take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you, which is like what a personalized plan is. So simply head to the show notes, click the link. Are you on track with the baby steps and complete the quiz? Very easy. And then we'll ship you out a thing straight to you that is just for you, baby. Yeah, that's fun. Devin's in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Devin. What's up?

Hey, how you doing? Good, man. How can we help? Yeah, so I'm kind of going through something now. I'm just being sued for $15,000. I'm trying to figure out how to go about it, I guess. What are you being sued for $15,000? I got into a car accident probably about two years ago now. I didn't have insurance on the car, so they're coming after me for damages. Oh, okay. All right, cool. And it's been two years? Yes.

Yeah. And who's the insurance company? Who's the insurance company that's coming after you? Safeco. Okay, cool. All right. And have they sued you? Yeah, the judgment went through the 7th of last month. Awesome. Okay, cool. And what do you make? At this point, I'm starting my job Monday, so it should be gross around $1,800. $1,800 what? $1,800 what? A week. A week? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

All right. And you're working 40 hours at the new job? Yeah. How old are you? I'm 24. I'll be 25 tomorrow. Why didn't you have insurance? Oh, well, I mean, just let it lapse and pay the bill, and I guess just being stupid with my money. Yeah. That didn't work good, did it? No. You got insurance now? Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. You learned your lesson then, right? Yeah. Good. Okay, cool. So the new job, what are you doing? Building RVs.

Okay. You're working 40 hours. Yeah. Okay, cool. Cool. All right. So here's the deal. A, um, insurance company, let's put their lawyers shoes on their managers shoes on for a minute. And I'm going to look over at this guy. This guy owes me $15,000. He's not a multimillionaire. He doesn't make a lot of money. He's 24 years old. He's a young broke guy.

Right. That's what I see if I'm coming after you. You're going to be hard to collect from because you don't have anything. Right. That's what I see if I'm looking over from their shoes at you. Is that fair? Yeah. Okay. That's to your advantage, dude. Okay. Because that's the card you play. So the attorney that sued you, you've got their name, right? Yeah, they gave me the name and phone number. Good, good. Okay, here's what I want you to do. I want you to scratch together.

by working two extra jobs on top of the one you just got. Are you living at home? Yeah. Okay. So you don't have any expenses much? No, not really. No going out on weekends, no happy hour, no nothing. You're broke and being sued. You need some money. All you're going to do is work and stack cash for a minute, okay? Mm-hmm. I want you to work three jobs, okay? Okay. I want you to get $5,000 really fast. Okay.

All right. How fast can you get $5,000 if you do what I'm telling you to do? A month and a half. A month and a half. Yeah. And then I want you to call a lawyer. Are you in a good church by chance? No. You know any good lawyers? Just their personal friends or family or anything? No. Okay. Then you're going to have to take a chance. But you're going to call the lawyer, and I want you to play broke kid. Okay.

records for him. Okay. I'm a broke kid. I'm 24 years old. I got no money. I was stupid. I didn't have insurance. I screwed up. I know this is a debt and I know you can come after me and I got nothing. So you're not going to get nothing, right? There's nothing for you to get, dude. But I did work six extra jobs because my financial coach told me y'all would settle with me. I'm your financial coach. And I just told you that.

Okay. And I'm going to offer you $5,000 cash right now to settle this whole thing. Let me tell you what he's going to do. He's going to whine, spit, roll around the floor a little bit, and he's going to say $7,000. And you're going to say, I don't have seven. I have five. And he's going to whine. He's going to run around the floor. He's going to spit. You're going to say, I got five. Do you want five? Because I'm a broke kid, and after this phone call, I'm going to use some of that and just go file bankruptcy, and you're going to get zero. But I'd like to just get this settled. Okay.

And you're going to have to negotiate, play broke kid, broke kid records and get him to take your five grand as settlement in full. Remember that phrase. Okay. I want to settle this in full. No, I'm not paying payments and I'm going to settle it in full and they'll take your money. You're going to work at it a little bit. Okay.

But this is the price you pay for not having insurance, and you're going to go get it straightened out. And you'll never forget this the rest of your whole life. I did stuff when I was 24 that changed the trajectory of my whole life, too. Then they'll take it, won't they, Jade? They'll take it. They'll take it. They'll take it because they don't think they're going to get anything, dude.

Right. They're going to consider this a gift from heaven. That is true. Okay. Because statistically, you're a bankruptcy looking for a place to happen. But, dude, there's no way you're bankrupt. You can make this kind of money and pay it off. You're going to get it all cleared up because you just stack cash and live at home and go work five jobs. You'll clear the whole thing up if you have to, but you don't have to. You call them and work a deal, get it in writing from them before you give them any money.

Okay. I need it in writing that you accept $5,000 of settlement in full on this claim, on this judgment. When I get that in an email, I will wire you the money that day. But you got to go get the money first before you make the phone call, right? Right, right. So are you going to do that? You think this will work? Yeah. There's no reason it shouldn't. You said you're making $1,800 a week now and you're living at home. Yeah. Instantly.

Yeah, I was on the verge of calling him in this morning making a payment plan. No payment plans. No payment plans. You have the $5,000. No, you put the $5,000 in your hand and you wave it under his nose and you play broke kid records. Okay. And he's a lawyer. He'll bite.

Right. Or she's a lawyer. She'll bite. And because they know there's not going to be any payments. My financial coach said under no circumstances. Bad guy off of me, Devin. Just say my guy told me I can't do that. My guy. I'm your guy. Okay. Because I just told you you can't do that. And you say, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just a broke kid, but I got $5,000. I do know that. And I give you that if you want to be done with this. But you're not getting that and payments because my guy told me I can't do that.

Right. You going to do this or not? Yep, I got you. All right. You're not bankrupt, dude. You just need a plan, okay? No. I appreciate it. Go get them. If you need more help, you call us back. That's why we're here.

Got to have a plan. You got to have a plan. Yeah, I would. No way in the world would I go payments on that. Or bankrupt over that. No, you can't. You don't file bankruptcy on $15,000 when you're making $1,800 a week. Come on. And you're living at home. You don't have the biggest expenses that most folks have. Like any. Mama going to cook you some meals. That's what I'm saying. You're going to get this mess cleaned up. You don't have rent and you don't have daycare. Quit going to happy hour and pay your dad going insurance bill. Right, right.

I was going to say it. I didn't say it. I'm like, in many ways, we went easy on you because we could have said, listen, you've got the money. You make $7,200 a month. Pay it off in two months. Pay it. But I get it. Make a deal. You can go the other way, too. But you just work it. And the whole process is going to be good for you.

Because, you know, you're never going to do it again. No. You always make sure the insurance gets paid. And it could have been so much worse. It could have been bankruptcy. You know what I mean? I mean, he could have hit my car. That's what I'm saying. Woo! Woo! Oh, God.

Oh, gosh. That wouldn't have been 15. I'm just saying. Didn't you once tell me that somebody hit one of your cars in a restaurant parking lot? Yeah, he just put a little thing on about the size of a quarter, which would have cost him... More than a quarter. It would have cost more than a quarter, but...

A quarter of what? The night I turned 16, my daddy let me have the keys to the pickup truck, and I went to the Pizza Hut, and I first got my driver's license that day. First time I ever drove by myself out into the wild. When I'm backing out of the thing at the Pizza Hut, I hit a Corvette with the bumper of the truck. So, been there, done that. Man. Been there, done that. 16 freaking years old and an idiot. Wow. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Thanks for joining us, America. Next week, I will be with Dr. John Deloney in three more cities, concluding the Money and Relationships Tour. Monday, we'll be in Phoenix, Arizona, May the 5th. Fort Worth on Wednesday, May the 7th. About four tickets left on that one, a handful only. Kansas City sold out for Friday, May 9th, and Fort Worth basically sold out. But you can probably get a... You can pull up the thing and see which seats are there, but it's a handful.

And so you can find out what's going on. Phoenix, I think we got plenty, but it is coming up Monday, so need to get your tickets. We'll be out there. If you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show notes and you can buy. There's no reason to be trapped in the same money problems, the same relationship problems. And you get to hear Dr. John and I. I can promise you this. It'll be funny and informative. Your reluctant spouse will actually have a good time.

So make a date night out of it and come out one night. We'd love to see you. Christopher's in Knoxville. Hi, Christopher. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you for taking my call, Dave. Sure. How can we help?

I am in about $19,000 worth of debt. I have about $25,000 invested in a mutual fund. I recently moved out to Knoxville from Albuquerque, and I'm just trying to get some clarity on what I should do next. I'm only making about $3,000 a month out here in Knoxville. I'm a personal trainer at a gym, and I...

Me and my girlfriend that I came out here to support, we're going through a breakup right now and just trying to figure some things out. So you moved all the way to Knoxville, doing the personal training thing, not making too, too much. But what's your point of staying there? Did you go just for the relationship or is there any other reason you're there?

Yeah, pretty much just for the relationship. Her and I are still living together, trying to work things out, but it's not super clear on if that's going to happen. But I'm just trying to do some growth as a man right now. So I told everybody I'm going to be out here for a year. I'm going to help her get to PA school. And I'm still trying to stick to that, even though, and I'm not like a stalker or anything like staying out here. No, that's bull.

You absolutely do not need to help somebody get through PA school that you broke up with, and you don't need to be living in the same house with somebody you broke up with. Yeah, what's that mean, help her get through PA school? Are you paying for it? You don't do that unless you're married. Emotionally, making sure all the things around the house are done, just all those things. Yeah, and we broke up maybe a month and a half, two months ago. But you still live there?

yeah i we you know how weird that sounds it's weird yeah you wouldn't it's weird all of it yeah i would move out immediately basically if you can like get out of there you guys need to separate your living situation oh wait a minute i mean i'm so confused because i i it's i'm old so i don't understand this stuff but um like i've been married 43 years so i don't know how to do what you're doing but um

Uh, so I don't know how you go through it. You either are together or you're broken up. I don't know how you kind of stand in the middle with one foot on the boat and one on the dock and the boat's leaving. I think you're just going to get wet. So, um, I am I missing? I mean, so I think it's probably healthy for you to make a call. Are you done with this relationship, Christopher?

I don't want to be. I didn't ask that. I said, are you done with this relationship? No, sir. Okay. Is she? No, sir. Then why are you telling me you're broke up? Because we are not technically boyfriend and girlfriend anymore. That's kind of like being done with the relationship, dude.

And here's the problem. You've created all of these high stakes that are causing you to make decisions you might not otherwise make. If you were just dating somebody and you lived in your house and she lived in hers and you lived in the state that you wanted to and you didn't follow her somewhere...

the things that happen in the relationship, you could very clearly filter them as what they are. But now the stakes are high. You've moved all the way out here. You're sharing a residence. So it's not as easy to look at a situation and go, that's not for me. I'm going to hightail it out of here. Now you have to think about where you're going to live. Are you going to stay in this state? What about rent? What about this? Do you see how it makes something that should have been so simple, very, very complex with a lot of weighted stakes? Yeah. So I think you're going back to Albuquerque. I do too.

Okay. I appreciate you guys. Thanks for the call. Sorry, man. I don't know what he's doing, but I think he should do that. Yeah. I don't know what he's going to do. I can't tell anything about it. He should go back. He should. Not go back home. Just go back to Albuquerque. That is home. Well, not home-home, but I got you. Not to Mama's house is what I'm saying. Do the man thing. Have your own place. Pay your own bills.

work like a person, all that kind of stuff. Do the man thing and stand alone, and then you'll like you better, and the next time you go into a relationship, you'll be a different person rather than... Mistakes are research. They're a good way to learn what not to do and what works and what doesn't. I figured out that leaves a mark. That's right. Ouch. Sam is in New York City. Hi, Sam. How are you? Hey, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it. Sure. What's up?

So, as you said, by me living in New York City, I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, but I have some money saved. I'm not in any debt. I'm on baby step five, I guess. I don't have kids, but I'm saving for my future kids' college. I was just wondering, with the money I do have saved, would it be better to

To invest with the volatility in the market, I'm a little afraid to invest right now or just to look into buying a house or something like that. The definition of investing is you're going to leave the money alone at least five years. Yeah. Otherwise, you're parking money or you're saving money or you're speculating. So if you're investing, I don't worry about the market's volatility because the market smooths out over time. Right. Yeah.

All these, the news story of the day that the market throws a temper tantrum with, stock market's a four-year-old with a temper tantrum on a given week. Over a given decade, the stock market's a wise old woman. Okay? So you're looking for the wise old woman. You're looking for the decade play, and then you don't worry about market volatility. I see the volatility, but I don't care. I put money in it every week.

I just keep putting money in. Now, but are you going to be leaving the money? Are you going to be leaving it alone, Sam, for five years? Or have you got something else in mind? Well, that's honestly kind of what I could. You know, it's just, it's really just a matter of, like, so basically, if I was to break down my, like, my money, you know, I've got,

like 240 that I can't touch in retirement and just like good mutual fund investments out. And then I have, and then I've got like 75, not like cash, but you know, like investments that I could cash out. Right. And I just don't know what that, like, first of all, I just, I constantly feel like I'm just like,

behind the game and I'm just like you know not doing enough and because I don't own any property I'm renting like and then what do you compare it to what what do you make I make like I just switch jobs I just switch careers um and I do sales what are you gonna what are you gonna make this year Sam so well it depends on uh you know if I quote us there Sam what are you gonna make this year

Probably like 200. Okay. That's what I'm thinking. All right. And so you're doing great. And you're how old? 26? I'm 29, sir. Okay. Pretty close. All right. Good.

I appreciate that. Maybe she'll get that. No, you're doing really, really good. Really great. I mean, you're killing it. You're a great sales guy. You're confident. You know what you're doing. You're a saver by nature. You're stacking cash. You're doing nothing wrong, man. You're doing nothing wrong. I mean, you might be a little heavy with a 75 sitting in cash. Some of that's in investments, though, right?

Yeah. It's just not in retirement. That's fine. Yeah. It's just not in retirement. Yeah. Yes, sir. So if you're in mutual funds with some of that and some of that's your emergency fund, I think you're perfect. I just continue to stack some cash. You're not a loser because you haven't bought real estate at 29. You've already got a $300,000 net worth and you're making 200 a year. You're on your way to millionaire, man. You'll get the real estate when the right time comes and when you settle into wherever it is you're going to be. If it's going to be there, that's fine.

But there's nothing, you haven't done anything wrong. I think it's excellent. Way to go. I'm proud of the guy. Well played, sir. Well played. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, you've heard me say it a thousand times and I'm going to keep saying it. You're worth being well. And listen, therapy can help. I see a therapist and let's be honest, a lot of you should too.

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do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Linda is in Detroit. Hi, Linda. How are you?

You could thank you for taking my call. Sure. I'm wondering if my church should go into debt to purchase a personage. No. So we own a home. I figured that'd be your answer. Yeah. Could I share some more information? Sure, please. But I mean, that's the answer, but let's hear the details. Yeah.

Okay, so we own a home that's next door to the church, and we're members at the church. We've used this house as a rental, but now we'd like to sell it. And when we bought the house years ago, a few members that are on the church board had asked for first dibs if we ever decided to sell the house. So we gave the board the opportunity to purchase it for $210,000 on a cash offer. The home appraised at $233,000.

So the board presented the opportunity to the church and then the congregation voted to go ahead with purchasing the home, but they left the option for how to pay for the home up to the church board. So we were then presented with a counter purchase agreement, but it's a financed offer. And we were really clear with the board that this was the opportunity to purchase the home for $210,000 cash. We wanted to, you know, give the church a deal as a, you know, act of goodwill, um,

And the church has the money. They have well over $400,000 in extra savings that they have in CDs right now. And you go, you attend this church, you attend this church, correct? Yes. Yes, that's correct. Okay. But the board wants to keep that money in savings and not spend it on the home. And so I, we feel like we don't want to accept that mortgage offer for two reasons. One is because I don't think that the church needs to go into debt to buy the home. It's not a need. They have the money in savings to pay cash.

frankly, I think it's completely foolish for the church to go into debt for it. And additionally, we buy and sell a lot of real estate and we know that mortgage offers can tend to drag on and on. They take longer to close. Sometimes they require dumb little stuff to be fixed on the house. And so we're willing to accept less on a cash sale just for simplicity.

Where like, if we list it to the public, we would probably ask closer to the appraised value or even more to help us, you know, give, give us time and feel like we can put up with the nonsense that comes with a mortgage because we're getting more money for the house. So unfortunately, a lot of our friends at church have told us that we're straight up in the wrong, that we're being absolutely ridiculous to insist on a cash sale. And I just wondered if you agree, if you think that we're being ridiculous to say that we want it to be a cash sale.

I mean, just that first pass on this, it's your property and you get to choose what offer you accept. That's thing one. But if you're attempting to control, are you on the board at all? Are you part of that at all? Are you in leadership? No. No leadership. No.

But I think she's a member of the church and she doesn't like what they're doing and she doesn't want to participate in it. I'm fine with that. That part I think is fine. And it's your property. You get to choose. The only thing that I thought you do have to be careful of is trying to manipulate it too much. The side of it that's on your side is your side. That's the property side. You trying to manipulate the church side to do what you specifically want them to do, I feel like you have to be careful of that. Well, if this was an independent issue...

and it wasn't your house, but the church was going to buy another house, and you're a member that has the same concern, then there's still the concern. It's still stupid. And you could voice it, but you can't control it. She's right. Well, you can't control it because you're not part of the leadership. The only thing, you know, you can just decide whether this is a deal breaker or not. So here's the interesting thing that you're pushing against and don't even realize probably. Larry Burkett used to say that oftentimes in churches,

The business leaders that are members of the church end up on the church board. And so the church board can start to look like the Chamber of Commerce. It's a whole life agent, a car dealer, and a banker, all of which believe in borrowing money. And so then the church business starts being conducted like the world conducts businesses to the church, where instead maybe we ought to actually say, what does the Bible say about debt? Right?

And find me one time in Scripture that there's a positive thing said about debt. You can't. It's not there. Find me one time in Scripture that debt is used as a tool for God's kingdom. Not in there anywhere.

So these guys are functioning like the banker that they are or the car dealer that they are or whoever it is that's sitting on this church board, and they're thinking like they think down at the office instead of thinking about managing God's stuff God's ways. And that's what the breakdown is. That's the breakdown. And so I would challenge the church board to start making decisions about the church's business through the lens of Scripture, not through the lens of a finance professor. I think...

That's really good advice. Thank you for that. Yeah, I don't think they're going to do it, though. Yeah, I don't think they're going to do it. And so I think what I would do if I were in your situation, I would just say, you know, we made you an offer. We do not agree with the church going into debt to do this. And the offer was on a cash basis. And that's the only way we're going to do the deal.

And if you don't want to do that, that's okay. We'll just sell the house. We're fine with that. Yeah, I agree. And we're not throwing a fit. We're not throwing a temper tantrum. And by the way, your friends, I don't know what the flip they've got to do with any of this. They don't get a vote in this. Well, friends that are on the church board that do have the vote, they're making the decision. Okay. Yeah. Then I think they're being unreasonable. Okay. To dictate to someone how they deal with their own asset.

Okay. Yeah. This is, you know, so if I guess if you've got friends on the church board, maybe you need to tell them, let's, why don't we use the Bible as our guideline since we're in church and all, Ooh, there's a novel thought, you know, and instead of you telling me about how you're going to be wise and hoard cash over here, man, this sounds like some drama. This, well, I'm, Hey, you know, I didn't, I didn't start the fight.

I mean, all you did was offer to sell them the house. And then they got all up in your business telling you how to do stuff because they're a freaking car dealer. Is one of them a car dealer or a banker? Am I right? Yes. Oh, man. Almost like I've done this before.

So, yeah, I mean, here's the thing. I had to decide years ago that I'm not going to leave a church over this kind of stuff. Okay. Unless there's an integrity issue, because this kind of stuff is in every church every day. The slim pickings that happens to be the church that I go to now, the pastor has been a good friend for many years and he believes in the stuff we teach and it runs the thing debt free. But,

The church I was at before that borrowed money, and I didn't leave over them borrowing money. And I'm freaking Dave Ramsey. So, I mean, you know, come on. So we're not trying to pick a fight all the time. But I do challenge pastors and church boards or elders or deacon boards or whatever you want to call them at your place to use the Bible as your guideline instead of what they taught you in finance class.

And when you're handling God's assets, by the way, they're all God's assets, including yours. But yeah, so but I can't always get them to do it. And I have to just be friends with them anyway. And I've got lots of friends that do things wrong and they're still my friends. That's true. That scene y'all were playing out, though, that sounded like a movie. That sounded like a movie scene. Keep you calm and still be smiling while you're doing it all. There you go. There you go. This is the Ramsey show. God bless your heart at the end. Bless your heart. Yeah.

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People ask me all the time, George, what's your number one money-saving hack? I'm glad you asked. Nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend. So here's the hack. Get on a budget. Seriously.

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So what are you doing still listening to me? Go download the EveryDollar app for free and start saving more money right now. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for being with us. Samantha is in Chicago. Hey, Samantha, what's up? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure, how can we help?

So just to preface, I want to say that I have more views that are in accordance to you about saving, being debt free, all of that. And my husband is more on the line of investing into business. So I have a question about investing into farming for first generation farmers. So my husband and I started our own hay business three years ago because it's always been his dream. And then we've just been building it up slowly as a side business alongside our regular jobs.

Last year, we bought a $12,000 tractor that we still owe on, but that is 0% interest because it's just through a farmer, not a bank. And then this year, we bought a $20,000 tractor, so we would have two tractors and then just start upgrading our equipment slowly. And that tractor has an 8.4% interest rate through a bank.

My husband's point of view was that the tractor's profit that it would bring in would pay itself off in two years versus if we didn't get it right now, then we would probably be saving for about five years before we could afford it. So we want to know if you think that it was a bad idea to invest in this equipment and if you think that we should just be cash flowing all of these big purchases since we're new to farming. Farming is a business.

Anytime you borrow money in business, you increase your risk, your probability of failure. The more money you borrow, the more likely you are to fail. The number one cause of small business failure is cash flow problems, and the number one cause of cash flow problems is debt. The more you borrow, the higher probability is you fail. Simple. And he acts like there's no risk involved, and that's absolute bull crap. Of course there's risk involved.

You're freaking farming. Of course there's risk involved. I mean, the very nature of farming is we don't know what the crop's going to be. Yeah, true. It's not predictable. He acts like it's automatic. It's not automatic that in two years. It's not automatic that it's going to take five years to buy a tractor either. So we encourage all businesses to, in the name of sustainability, in the name of probability of success, to avoid debt.

And I avoid that. I avoid that. I've grown this business for 30 years with never borrowing a dime, and I've invested heavily into the business, but it was all profit that went back into the business. Yeah. I'm sitting in a building that's, you know, the campus here is about $600 million cash. Mm-hmm.

Cash, no debt. There's also the mental side of it. I think for whatever reason, people break it up mentally and they go, well, personal debt is my personal debt and business debt is business debt. But at the end of the day, the same person owes both of those debts. Do you see what I'm saying? So that's another lie. Yeah. At the end of the day, you're still liable for it. Yeah, you're liable. That farmer doesn't care whether...

that you bought the tractor from and financed it with, he doesn't care whether the hay comes in or not. He wants his money. That's right. A banker that's got eight and a half percent on that, they don't care. They don't care if your husband falls and breaks his leg and unable to drive the tractor and bring the crop in. Yeah. They don't care if somebody else in the family gets ill and so he's unable to, because he has to take care of his family in another way and unable to cut hay.

They don't care. They just want the money, period. So you have to decide whatever your philosophy is. If you choose like this is my philosophy in life, then this is my philosophy in life, whether personal. I've had this argument. I mean, I've been I grew up in rural America. I'm not anti farm. I'm pro farm. But I've had this argument with farmers. They act like they're like they get somehow a pass on math.

because I'm a farmer. You don't get a pass on math. Math is math, whether you run a heat and air company or whether you run a farm or whether you run a real estate business. I don't care what you run. Math is going to kick your butt if you screw with it. And y'all are messing with it. You're asking for trouble. Yeah. You're begging for problems.

Because these purchases are made only the only way this all works in his theory is if everything goes exactly as planned and the number of things times things go exactly as planned is precisely zero.

Yeah, luckily I'm more very much into budgeting and financing. Well, it won't help if he keeps buying tractors on credit. I know, yeah. I have it worked out, so I'm not including any of the income from the hay business, and we can have both of those tractors paid off in 16 months and all of our other debt. No, now you're assuming and presuming on the future. Yeah, but I'm also assuming that we're going to keep our jobs and be okay. Can you spell COVID?

You can't predict the future. And you can't out-earn bad money habits for very long. There's going to be an end to that. No, I teach people to never borrow money on their business because I want their small business to thrive. I want farmers to thrive. I love farmers. And I don't want them spending their whole life paying a dadgum combine payment because it's got GPS and air conditioning. And that's necessary to ROI in today's world. Bull crap.

ROI is called return on investment, and that includes factoring in risk. If you're a sophisticated business person, you factor in risk, and you all are ignoring risk in this. So if you keep on this track, you're going to go broke because you're acting. The track is there's no risk. I'll always make more than the tractor payment, and I'll be okay. And that is a falsehood. That's what I'm saying. It's a falsehood. It's going to bite you hard.

So, no, I don't think you did a smart thing, and no, I don't think you are doing smart things. Steve is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Steve. How are you?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? I have a question about risk. Okay. So I am, I'm 64, I'm retired, I'm an everyday millionaire, I have a piece of commercial real estate that was part of a business that I sold that I still own. It's a triple net lease and I've got five years left on the lease.

And I'm just wondering when I should sell it. The kind of a wrinkle in the ointment is that I have...

It's in a rural area, and it's owned by a big corporation. They're having some trouble attracting people to move out to rural areas to work. So when the lease is up in five years, I'm not sure what's going to happen. And so I feel like I have a great deal at the moment. Things are going very well. I don't really want to own it if it's empty in five years, and I just don't...

I don't know, help me out trying to frame this and understand the smart way to make this decision. Well, the property is going to be valued based on the lease. Commercial property, we place values on the commercial property based on the income it produces.

And the lease has got a fuse burning that's five years long. And so if I'm buying this, I'm going to value it based on it being empty in five years. And that's better than if I'm buying it and it's going to be empty in two years. Right. And that's better than if I buy it and it's going to be empty in eight months.

Um, and, or we are, it's empty. Oh, now we got a real deal. Right. Okay. So, uh, if you know what I'm looking at, if I'm you is what's the probability they turn this around and they stay there.

Is it 50-50? Is it 90-10? You know, that's kind of what you've got to think about because you've got some actual insight into the situation. Thank God, right? And so if you think it's 50-50 or less that they're going to be there in five years, if I'm you, I'm selling that.

Okay. Because you're going to have a problem, right? And the problem, the closer the fuse gets to the bomb, the less value the property has and the less marketability it has.

Is that right? No, that's exactly right. And I have, honestly, I get calls all the time from some various groups who, I mean, it's got five years in the lease. They are very happy to buy these properties. Yeah, yeah. You probably got some REITs lining up to take it out. What's the value of it?

It was appraised a few years ago. It was $600,000. Okay. So you probably get a million out of it. And you could probably do a 1031 and roll that into something that you think has a better long-term future than you think this does. But if you think there's a 90% probability they're going to renew and stay and you want to hold it, then I would hold it. All we're doing here is looking at the probability risk, like you said. You accurately said it when you opened up the call. Good question, Steve. You're thinking correctly. I like that.

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade Warshaw. And look, if there's anybody who knows about student loan debt, it's me. My husband and I had $280,000 of it, but we were able to dig ourselves out and you can too. If your student loan payment and interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be the solution. Now,

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Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about. And all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Homebase is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly.

What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to RamseySolutions.com slash real estate. That's RamseySolutions.com slash real estate. Jack is in Chicago. Hey, Jack, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

How are you today, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, looking for some advice here. I've been in my job for about two years now and just really burning out. Not sure if I should take time off and then go back to the job or should just completely quit and figure out, you know, what truly makes me happy if it's a different industry or a different job in general. You know, made around $157,000 last year. I'm 25 years old. What's the burnout?

I think one, just not really believing the product, and two, being ADHD, if I don't truly enjoy it, I have a time limit before I just hate it. So that's not burnout. It's just inability to stick with something. Yeah, could be that as well. If it's the ADHD-related, how do you see that?

playing out long-term, will you just, and I'm not asking this to be facetious, I'm truly asking, if you feel like it's related to that, how will that affect other jobs? Will you experience the same thing? Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm afraid of because, you know,

You know, I've always thought about that since, you know, I had my IEP in fourth grade. Like, is this going to be like something that happens constantly or is it, you know, I just got to keep changing until I find what I truly like. So, you know, it's something I think about every day. Maybe I'm just, you know, being a wuss and I should just muck it up and keep going or, you know, maybe taking time off to like figure out

If it truly is that or if it's more of the burnout side. I mean, have you put it out on paper? You're not burnout. Let's just establish that. You need to quit using that phrase. Okay. You're not burnout. You're distracted maybe and maybe you don't believe in the product, but neither one of those are burnout. Okay. Burnout is you've been working 80 hours a week.

And you hate everything in your life. The whole thing's toxic. And none of that has come up. You just don't like the product. And you have trouble staying on task for 40 straight hours a week. That's what you told me, right? Yeah. I mean, similar work probably, you know, 60 hours a week just because it is a tougher job. Yeah, me too. 60 hours a week doesn't create burnout. Burnout comes when you're doing something you hate with people you hate.

I feel like getting this on paper and kind of having a I like things on paper where I can see it with my actual pen in my hand and having the category that's like this is these are the things that are going to be present with any job, no matter what. I'm going to have to work 40 to 60 hours.

I'm going to have to do things that I sometimes don't like. Right. You've got that category of things that are kind of non-negotiables. They're there in any job, no matter what. And then you've got the things that, you know, are related to ADHD, which is like you said, staying on task might be a little bit tough and you've got that column. And then you've got the column of things that really are specific to this specific

specific job that you don't enjoy. Let me tell you, the deal breaker in the whole conversation, you're right, and that goes on this list of things, is I don't believe in the product. You should not be doing something that you don't believe in the product long term. It's not good for you, it's not good for you, it's not good for the customer, it's not good for them. Yeah, because for the first year and a half, like top performer, I like the product better than, but you know, I have... Why don't you like the product? Wait a minute, why did you lose, why did you fall out of love with the product?

Yeah. Well, so like the first year, year and a half, I was selling different products and then I changed teams and now I'm on this team. I just like, the reason why I don't believe it is because there isn't enough data out there to figure out, okay, is that truly working? Plus it's expensive and it's a big commitment. And so that's where my trouble is. Like, you know, I haven't seen that. So can you go back to the old product? No, I mean, you have to, you can't, our company doesn't do that. Okay.

Then, so I would not tell you to keep selling a product regardless of how we start the conversation or in the conversation. I would not tell you to keep a job long-term where you don't believe in it. It's not, again, it's not good for you. It's not good for the company. It's not good for the customer. Nobody's winning here. So, um, and I, if somebody, if you work for me and you said, I don't believe in this thing, I tell you, go look for something, man, go find something you love, go find something you believe in.

Um, it doesn't invalidate the product just cause you don't like it. It just, you don't want to do it. That's okay. You know, there's stuff that I think is valid out there that, um, you know, but so if you're, especially, especially in sales, you've got to really like it, the thing you're selling and you got to believe it's good for people because you feel like you're serving then rather than manipulating. Yeah, of course. Do you quickly, yeah. Do you think it's,

Why is it take some time off travel for a couple of months and then come back to it? Or should I have my next role lined up? No, you need to go get something else and do something else. Okay. You know, I, you know, you don't get a gap year in the middle of your career.

Yeah. It's not, it's not how, I mean, you can, but that's not, that's not normal. And so, no, I would go, you know, and take, if you want to do some traveling, take your PTO time at the next place and go travel. And that's fine. But you know, you're, you're,

you're not a 21 year old senior in college that just graduates taking a gap year. I'm going to go hike Europe before I start my life. That's not where you are. You're like a grown man and stuff. So no, I'm unless he's got a bunch of money sitting somewhere we don't know about. I still wouldn't do it. I just keep moving. And because he's looking for happiness in all the wrong places. Yeah. And the idea that I don't have to, if I'm not working, I'm going to be happy. And that's bull.

Now you're working at the wrong thing. That's why you're not happy. It's not because you're working. Work is not evil and work doesn't kill you and work doesn't burn you out. None of those are true things, but working at stuff you don't believe in will do all of that. So, Hey, hang on. We're going to give you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, find the work you're wired to do. And it has in there a wonderful assessment that is really good for self, um,

to do some self-analysis on, and, you know, what is it I want to do? And by the way, I will tell you this. The, is he gone? I guess he's gone. Oh, well. Anyway, the best salesman I know, including me, have a touch of ADD, okay? Have a touch of I can't stay on task. Because they like moving from thing to thing to thing to thing to thing, and sales is a good thing.

it's a good field for that. And you can make a ton of money and you can serve people and be proud of what you do and be tired sometimes, but not be burnt out. And so, yeah, that's what I would do.

what are you laughing at i'm gonna take a gap year hey you never you never know like i am truly a boomer that's when i know it's just it's over i'm completely over there in the old guy column i mean you didn't even consider it no i didn't even if if and and no no i didn't uh matt matt's in st louis hey matt what's up

Hey Dave. Hey Jade. How are you guys? Great. How can we help? So, um, basically I want to get your advice, um, for my wife and I, so I'm self-employed. She's been a stay at home mom for, I don't know, 12 years, probably at this point. Um,

Being a business owner, we have, not because we're business owners, but we did start retirement savings a little later in life. So collectively between the two of us and our Vanguard accounts, we have about $80,000. How old are you? 43. What do you make? Well, my company pays me about 65. Top line revenues range anywhere because there is a seasonal component. You own the company.

Yeah. So what is your taxable income, sir? Last year was $495,000, but typically it's about... Where's all the money going? Well, we're sitting on north of $500,000 in cash today.

Um, and we have, you know, home cars. Well, that's the thing. I don't like having all those soldiers sitting on the sidelines. I just don't really know what to do with it. Uh, we do max out our retirement accounts every year, but I don't know that's going to be enough. You haven't been doing that for long. No, we have not. Um, like two years. So,

Yeah, approximately so, yeah. So it's been one of those I don't know exactly what to do. I know enough to be dangerous, right? You're making great money. Congratulations. I'm proud of you. What kind of business is this? It's an automotive restoration, you know, detailing. Good for you. Well done. You're working your butt off, man. What's the top line? I am indeed.

Last year we did 1.5. I'm proud of you. Good, man. All right. So you're making a half million dollars a year and you got a half million stashed and you need to learn how to save it and invest it, right?

Correct. Good. Now you have a new task. So go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor and sit down with one of the SmartVestor pros and let them teach you, not do it for you, but teach you. And then the two of you together will make the decisions and you're going to get those soldiers off the sidelines. And now you've got a half million dollars moving towards your $80,000. And we're going to be millionaires pretty quick with our retirement plan.

Big news, business owners. It's here. My brand new book, Build a Business You Love, is officially available to start reading now. Look, running a business is tough.

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Dot com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Jenna in Nevada. She says, my husband is in the military. I am a stay at home mom and we're in our mid 30s. He really wants to purchase a cyber truck, which will cost about 80,000. We take home roughly 150,000 a year and our net worth is just over 950,000.

I drive a 2011 car, which runs fine. Our only debt is $250,000 on a home, which is valued at $750,000. I hope you're tracking with me. We have $420,000 in investments, $50,000 in cash, and $20,000 of that is our emergency fund.

I want to pay off the house before making luxury purchases. We'd save up to pay cash for this Cybertruck and trade in his current truck, which is worth about 30. Okay. Is it unfair for me to be unsupportive of his dream in our current financial situation? All right, let's sum it up. That was a lot of numbers, a lot of numbers. So they want to buy the Cybertruck. It's 80,000. He could trade in his current truck.

Get 30 for that. Plus they have 30 available. They have 50 in cash. Yeah, but 20 of it is their emergency fund. So...

That gives them 30. So now they've got 60. So, yeah. And I mean, honestly, here's the thing. $950,000. Let's go ahead and round that up to a million. It could be there tomorrow, depending on what anybody in the offices do. So I would round that up to a million for this. I'm not going to be a Pharisee on that. And then, yeah, if you want to talk about the rule of it,

being no more than half of your take home, you're right on the line there. I still think it would be fine. Dave, you can stop me, but I think it'd probably be fine to do it. You save up the other 20 if you want to. Um,

I would be fine with doing this. You save the other 20. I probably wouldn't sell off anything in order to do it. I'd probably just save it up right quick. And I think it'd be fine to do it. You guys just have to decide together because in your mind, say doing the house is the next thing. And in his mind, you guys have worked really hard and now it's time to live a little. And I totally understand that. If I had to vote, I'd be on his side. Hmm. Well, we'd be voting against each other. Would we? Yeah.

It fits with our guidelines for him to do this. You're right about that, so I'll go with your vote on that. Because the guidelines are baby steps four, five, and six to be intentional, not intense, pay cash for whatever you're doing, and he's doing all that. So in baby steps four, five, and six, you're putting 15% of your income away for retirement.

You're putting kids college away and you're paying extra on the house to have the house paid off as baby step six. During that time is when you would buy a new couch, a new car, go on a vacation and do some other things. And every one of those other things you do slows down the paying off of the house. That's correct.

And so the only thing that bothers me about this is... The brand new factor? Well, no, they're not going to million dollars. So they're not worth a million dollars. I'm with you on that. I mean, yeah, but I always like to save money. So for me, I'd still maybe look for something used, but it's not technically wrong if you did. It's hard to relate to the cyber crook thing anyway. But the... Yeah, so...

The thing I'm thinking about is, okay, if I'm the guy sitting here and I'm looking at my wife and we have a mortgage of $250, am I going to buy me a truck, my dream, which sounds like a little boy talk, not man talk, while my house is still sitting there with a mortgage? So when Sharon and I were doing this, we would have bought something nice,

Maybe not that probably wouldn't have pushed the edge of everything and played the dream card. I see. So you're she played. He played the dream card. That pissed me off.

I hear you. I don't like it. I don't like him playing the dream card on his wife. Am I wrong? Because she feels like she's the only grown up in the thing now because the little boy wants a Cybertruck and mommy won't let him have it. And that's the way this is framed. And you know what, Dave? I'm going to give you a not that you need a check on your side, but I am putting a check on your side of the board because they're in their mid 30s. So it's not like they've been at this for 30 years.

And finally, he's getting this thing like, yeah, I'm fine calling it a draw because you legally can do it under our guidelines. So that's a draw, right? Yes. According to our guidelines, you are meeting the everything we teach. Okay. In baby steps four, five and six and being intentional.

But then I have to put my shoes on and go, okay, if I'm in your shoes, what would I do? They have to agree about it. Number one, you got to agree about it. And I don't want, it's not fair for him to put you in a position that you're being unsupportive of his dreams. If your dream is a cyber trick, you need a better dream, a bigger dream. Seriously. Okay. So that's, I mean, really, I mean, if your dream is a car of any kind,

and you play this emotional card with your wife, you need a different dream. My dream is, you know, extreme wealth, extreme generosity. It should include both of them. And, you know, that's my dream. And somewhere in the byproduct is some great cars. We'll get some cars. I got a nice car. I'm not against that. My truck costs more than this one, so it's okay. Dave, be honest. If we were talking about anything but a Cybertruck...

Would you change your mind? You probably got me there. You probably affected my answer. But I just, what I'm always looking for is the language that we're using with each other. And I don't like where she's sitting. Is it unfair of me to be unsupportive of his dream? It's a little manipulative. A little manipulative. On his part. Yeah.

And, you know, she's like, you know, it's like I love it in the Christian world when somebody plays the God card. Well, God told me, well, I can't argue with you now because God told you. You know, it's like, but God told you something that's not consistent with Scripture, so that wasn't God. It was last night's pizza. You ought to go back and check that.

It wasn't the Holy Spirit. It might have been a spirit. But, you know, that kind of stuff. They start playing the God card. It's the same thing, right? It's this thing. So God told me, well, I'm done then. You can't argue with that because it's God. But if it is, you know, so that's the trick. And so that's always, Jenna, that's the bigger problem than the Cybertruck.

If you both said, okay, we like doing this, we both want to buy this, and it wasn't couched in the thing of it's my dream or I'm the unsupportive wife, I'm the nag, and he's the

hero who's in the military and I should let him have whatever he wants. Let's not go there. Let's say together we sat down and we both agree that this is an okay purchase in our situation. Do you guys think it's okay? Then we would go, yeah, it's okay. Yes, I'm with that. Okay. Yeah. So yeah. And it's okay. It's not what I would do, but it's okay. Yes. What I would do is I pay down on the house. I think I would too. Or I want that house paid off, man. Cause I got to tell you, once you got your house paid off,

You walk different, man. It's a, everything looks different. You got, you, you're, you got a little swagger you didn't have before. And you know, you don't have, you got to pay for a house. It's worth a million dollars or 750 grand here. It said, right. That's a, and his current truck sounds, seems like it's all right. If it's still worth 30,000. Yeah. I mean, they're okay. It's not, it really wasn't that, but it's just, it's a good discussion. It is because one of the things you want to look for is, uh, and I look,

for it. We look forward to here on the air, but you need to look for it with each other. I do the, you know, am I manipulating Sharon to get her to do something? You know, am I, am I playing that card or is she trying to manipulate me? Right. Giving me the eye roll or something, right. You know, that kind of thing. And so we're,

How is this going on? Because this matters more than the actual decision because it's the framework in which you make all of your decisions. That's right. And everybody's got to feel good about it. It's your money. So you both have to feel good about the decisions you're making with your money. That's good. You know what I'm saying? When you guys can get aligned on something and both of you are at least moderately excited about the direction, then that's way more important than the actual direction. That's right.

That's right. Because you will go get it then. You're correct. And these couples that stand on this stage and do the debt-free screams,

The unity of direction that they all have is pretty incredible. But I had a similar discussion. Sharon was driving one of those nasty old two-tone blue Astro vans. You remember those things? Yes. And it had 900 million miles on it. Oh, man, yeah. I'm like, I got $20,000. I need to do some stuff at the office. And she's like, no, I need a car. And we figured out we did both.

But we did her car first. We moved her up into a Suburban, and she needed it. Yeah. She was right. So it's okay. Just talk it through, right? Don't call every social media account.

Hey, what are you still doing here? You know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app, right? So you gotta jump over there to continue watching. You can download it for free. Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey Network. It's completely free, and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you. So jump onto the app and let the fun continue. All right, go on now. Don't make it weird.

Okay, I got nowhere to go, so you need to go. Okay, bye-bye now. All right, this is getting weird over there, guys. What do we do?