Brad Pitt
02:08:13 Share

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Mrs. Mouse. Hi, Dan. The mightiest of the meese. I'm here. I'm mighty. Wow.

Yeah, I have to imagine many people have guessed about this episode because we've obviously been so excited for a while now. We have. Knowing and so excited that I was like, even though he said yes, I just feel like there'll be something will happen. I know. I'm still scared. Yeah, I am too. Until it's been out for like even two weeks maybe. Yes.

But yeah, the number one from when I sat down, the notion of interviewing this person was absolutely implausible. Hilarious. It was a joke. It was a funny joke. Yeah. But then, Monty got Matt Damon and that maybe cracked a little ray of hope. Oh.

Dreams do come true. Dreams come true. Without further ado, my dream boyfriend, Brad Pitt, an Academy Award winning actor, a producer, Fight Club 7. I feel embarrassed even listing these. Mr. and Mrs. Smith, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and Glorious Bastards. And the new most kick-ass movie of the summer, I'm going to declare it is the most kick-ass movie of the whole summer and maybe the decade, F1.

hair raising fucking a point of view you've never gotten this is as close as you can get to what it feels like to be in a race car oh it's incredible and he's fucking perfect he's perfect god we love him we really do and he i mean as you'll hear he's just such a delight so kind gave us so much of his time yeah charm the fuck out of us really yeah well get your spare nope don't say it

Please enjoy Brad Pitt. We are supported by Liquid IV. You know how I feel about hydration, mainly electrolytes. It's your religion, and you know what? Tis the season because summer is upon us, and you got to be extra careful about your hydration goals. Yeah. I'm going to Palm Springs this summer.

The last time I went, it hit records like 120 degrees. We were busting out the liquid IV and we're going to do it again. Yeah, you just dump it right in the bottle and you're good to go. Oh, and they have a new flavor, Arctic Raspberry, which I'm so excited about.

So excited to try. Look, it's the perfect companion for hot summer days. Liquid IV has sugar-free solutions powered by LIV Hydroscience for smart hydration. I love Liquid IV because it's so simple for me to just add it to 16 ounces of water and get the hydration I need much better than water alone.

With an optimized ration of electrolytes, essential vitamins, and clinically tested nutrients, your water will transform from ordinary into extraordinary hydration. And it's always non-GMO, vegan, gluten-free, dairy-free, and soy-free. No matter what your summer brings, tear, pour, live more. Go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first order with code DAX at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code DAX at liquidiv.com.

This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Each Apple product, like the iPhone 16, is thoughtfully designed by skilled designers. The titanium Apple Card is no different. It's laser-etched, has no numbers, and earns you daily cash on everything you buy, including 3% back on everything at Apple.

Apply for Apple Card on your iPhone in minutes. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. ♪ He's an up-chance man ♪ ♪ He's an up-chance man ♪ ♪ He's an up-chance man ♪

- Hi! - So nice to meet you. - You too, sorry I got ice hands. - No, you're good. What'd you get? - I tried this new thing here. It's a blueberry latte. - Ooh, okay. - I'll take a sip. I'll absolutely take a sip. - Thank you for offering. - Oh yes. - Is it nice? - Blueberry's my favorite fake flavor. - You want in there? - Take a little rip. - Not really, but I feel pressure. - No, I will, I will. - I've put two nicotine products next to you in case you are wanting. - No, I'm done.

For how long? A couple of years now. Zero nicotine. None. Why? I think 30 years of smoking. I've just figured I've had enough. I've had enough. Good for you. I've had enough. But nicotine is really good for your brain, is it? That's what he likes to say. Listen, I got in reserves. You don't need any pick me up. Now, is there any problem with advertisement? No, no, no. You can do whatever you want. We can advertise for Topo Chico. Those are just what we thought you might like.

We threw a lot of beverages at you. But we're going to ask you to hold the filet of fish at one point and say, God damn, this is good. You don't have to say McDonald's. I have no idea what this means, but I'm doing a fucking ad for God's. You are, look it. Yeah, supporting. Is that? Sure. Wow. Is that a waffle? What is that?

What do we call that? Yes. Yeah. It looks fucking great. The blue is really nice. Okay. Not only is this God's true cashmere, I'm pretty sure this is the one you gifted me. I've got a few now. I was like, I think that's the one he sent. You know what I think he's doing? I think he's kind of like pining for another. Oh, there's no question. I think he's like trolling a little bit. I mean, I'm not going to rule out that I don't want one. She has some true. I do. I have some shorts.

Shorts are fun. They're so cute. Yeah. The green and white. Would you do a hoodie? I would do a hoodie. Even with long hair? Because sometimes women with long hair, they don't like the hoodie. Yeah, but I keep my hair up a lot. You'd cut your hair off, right, for a free hoodie? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great, great. For God's true? Or a blanket? You guys do blankets? Oh, yeah, we do cushy blankets. That sounds nice.

How did we come up with the name God's True Cashmere? My dear friend, who is originally a holistic nurse that I met around the time we met. In your age of discovery? In my age of discovery. And I came in one day and she said, I had a dream about you. You said, I want more green in my life.

And I literally said that to someone the day before, just at a whim. I want more green in my life. And so she made me a green shirt. This super soft, super cash. Her name is Sat Hedy. It means God's truth. Oh, what do you think of this? We started making them and we really liked them. Then we started making for our friends. And we thought, all right, let's make a little side hustle and have some fun with it. It's been a lot of fun. But yeah. So she said, what do you think of God's true cashmere?

I went, it's bold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's memorable. It sticks out. Can't find a reason not to. Might get a certain segment of the country mad, but hey, let's roll with it. Well, I mean, everyone's got their own definition, right? They sure do. Well, everyone thinks it's you, that you're God and it's your true cashmere. That would be very worst. I think people might think that. I thought it. No! In a good way. In a good, oh no. I've really stepped in it already. Wow.

I gotta go. Yeah, Pitt, he's known for his ego. No, you are not. Okay, so on that topic. I like that there's no entry to this. No, we get right in. Don't you like that? Because don't you think when you're acting, action is almost...

And there have been famous directors who don't say action. I asked on the last one not to. Okay, yeah, because all of a sudden it's like, be great now. Yes, go. Jarring. As opposed to like, we're talking, we're hanging. Given the way you and I met, does it make you nervous? Of course. He wishes. That's hopefully where it ends. You know, I've never had a gay experience. I kind of missed that window. But if I did, yeah, it wouldn't be you. Ah!

Oh, man, you had me. I was like, wow, he's going to say it. I was like, Dax is going to die tonight. Maybe 14th or 15th. I don't want to brag, but you're going to need to build up to me. Oh, boy. I do recommend you start with some starters. Okay, back to the real thing. Given the context in which we met, which is like really heightened honesty and vulnerability, does it make you nervous to have to talk with me in public?

No, not at all. Quite at ease. Oh, okay, great. We can say men's group, right? I say AA. You're not supposed to, but I say it. I said that. I went on some New York Times interview and what an amazing thing this experience was for me. It was a men's group. It was AA. It was when I first was getting sober. I just thought it was just incredible. Men sharing their experiences, their foibles, their missteps, their...

wants their aches and a lot of humor with it. I thought it was really special experience coming from the Ozarks where we're like, everything's great. Yeah. And so I do this interview and I say this and I got admonished by someone of the higher ups. You did? It's anonymous. How does that help anyone? Not for you. That's what I said.

Here's the truth. There was a period of time where if you were known to be an alcoholic, you would be run under your neighborhood. You couldn't find employment. There was a great reason for it. But even deeper than that is they didn't want alcoholics just showing up at their doorstep. No one had a fucking solution. And you would be kind of inviting just the town drunks to show up. So a lot of reasons. My excuse, because I say it openly and I've gotten some criticism as

I've had a couple dozen, maybe more people come up to me in the last seven years and go like, I'm the best man at my brother's wedding and my family wouldn't talk to me. And I found out about AA from you. And I'm like, I'll take that dude over 1,000 fucking haters. I've had a few of those as well. But you go around in a circle, it's kind of spiral because it's a really crowded room. Dax was usually near the end because he's been there a while. He's kind of like a... Elder statesman. Elder statesman. Thank you.

And I really respected it. It was really open, honest. It was a way to take whatever theme seemed to go in the evening and then put it in the funniest package. And it meant a lot to me. It really did. Good job, Dak. Haven't talked to him since. Yeah. Understandably. I'm so impactful that I have not seen him since. You use him for what he's worth and then you walk away. That's what we do. Send him a couple of the free products every now and then. Did he tell you about our date? He did. But we keep you on.

of the DL a little bit on this show. Yeah. And this is really kind of this fun theme. And I often tell people this, and I wonder if you can relate to this. Surely you've worked with people where you're holding two things simultaneously about them. Like if you were to have worked with Paul Newman, I imagine you have Paul Newman and then you would have a man you know. I think it's okay to keep both those things alive. Yeah, I think that's fair. I have a handful of friends. Robert Downey Jr. I saw him as a kid in Weird Science.

And him dumping the fucking malt off the top of the mall. He's not even a main player in that movie. We had a rad cardigan on. And like a zoot suit or something. Yeah, he was wild. And I'm like, that dude's awesome. I love that dude. Followed him throughout the years. Ultimately became friends with him. And it's like, yeah, I have Robert, the dude I know. And then there's the guy I just was in love with.

from Chaplin and all these things. They don't intersect, right? Yeah, they don't intertwine that way. Did you have anyone like that? You said it. I remember meeting Newman, working with Redford, working with Hackman. You know who I have that with? Sean Penn. Oh, yeah. There you go. 89, Sean Penn. Oh, fuck, yes. He'd be number one. Oh, my God. How about Racing with the Moon? How about At Close Range? Oh, my God. You know this one? I haven't seen that.

Rush Holmes put this one on. He's in it with his brother. Christopher Walken. Yep, Chris. And he got fucking huge for it. Remember as you were younger, like, oh shit, Sean Penn's fucking huge. Yeah, he's badass. Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker. But he super stylized the way it's shot. Jamie Foley directed it. But I think younger actors should study it because so much is said without saying it. It's such a...

Streamline script and everything is undercurrent. The movie's pretty quiet. It's great. Okay, we share another one while we're on this road. Mickey Rourke. We do. Whoa. Love that Mickey Rourke. Where does it start for you? I started really looking at acting. It was late 80s. And so at that point, Mickey Rourke. Wow. He had this Bogart roughness to him.

Super tough, but also this really vulnerable. He could walk both lines. He was doing something that was so extraordinary. She watched Angel Heart. And Lisa Bonet in Angel Heart. That's incredible. Oh, just incredible. Oh, my God. That's your number one. When I was a kid, I'm like, I'm naming my daughter if I have one epiphany. Lisa Bonet. Oh, epiphany, yes. Lisa Bonet.

Her first name is Lisa Bonet. One word, Lisa Bonet. He's got great vulnerability. That's the deal. To be able to walk with that kind of strength and toughness. And he was sexy. Come on. Dudes weren't really sexy then. Pope and Greenwich Village. Oh, what a stunt. Dated movie, so 80s. He still is timeless. He is so badass in it. I'm the Pope. Oh.

They took my fingers, Johnny. Took my fucking thumb, Charlie. Chalutz. Okay, go. Back to that situation. Which? Meeting you in that context. You're at this meeting. We're going to get into the fact that a bazillion famous people have come to this meeting and everyone's used to it. And then you came in. It was pretty overwhelming. And I got a real sense of what your experience is in this way that I couldn't really fathom. But you have the power of when you are in a place where

everyone can't stop thinking about you. And I was like, God, he has to be aware of that. What does that feel like? That's a lot to deal with. How is he ever going to open up and be honest in this space? And then it dissipates a bit. People get a little more comfortable. And then you were, you were so fucking honest. And I was like,

He must have a stubbornness like I have, which is like, yeah, all this is going on, but I refuse to let it not let me be a person. Oh, it's interesting. Never thought about it that way. You know, I was pretty much on my knees and I was really open. I was trying anything and everyone, anything anyone threw at me. It was a difficult time.

I needed rebooting. I needed to wake the fuck up in some areas. And it just meant a lot to me. So yeah, the first is, oh my God, it's coming around. You know, it's coming around. It's getting closer. It's going to be yours. But everyone was so open. It gives you permission in a way to go, okay, I'm going to step out on this edge and see what happens. And then I really grew to love it. When another dude shares so honestly about his struggles and his defects and it gets to you, you feel,

Like you owe him that honesty in return. Anything could go because some guys would be like, you know what? Didn't have such a bad week. And talk about their wins. Little failures and little successes. And you know what? I woke up and I'm going to do it again tomorrow. So that too. What do you think? Is this about 30 guys roughly? Yeah, on a big. Different guys come in and come out. Especially when you fucking showed up. People are knocking us apart. There's always one guy though. Just loves to hear himself talk and he'd just go.

Yeah, that's tough. And wait till you get through the next one. It's actually not tough. It's pretty funny. Well, Dax got in a fight with someone over at once. I did get in a fight in that room. Oh, really? I missed that week. We told the story on the podcast, so I don't mind saying it out loud again. But the actor Eric Dane, who I now fucking love. Yeah. I have such a sweetness for him. Yeah, we all had a mini group over there. Right, right, right. He was hosting. But when we first were around each other, it was not good.

And then he threatened a dude in the meeting. Wow. And I said, let's go, motherfucker. In the middle of the meeting, he goes, if you hit that timer again, I'm going to fucking throw you in that candle. That was right at the time. And I go, that's it, motherfucker. Let's go. Stand up. Let's go outside. He stands up. We go outside. And I'm going to beat the fuck out of him in Tom's driveway. At an A.

We were coming for healing and understanding. But what's great is we're friends now. And we told that story on the podcast. And it's quite a hilarious beginning for us because now I love them. But anyways, I set all that up just to say I felt very compassionate to what you go through. And I never sweated you. I wasn't like coming up to you. Hey, man, I'm Dax. Nice to meet you. So I didn't really interact a ton with you. We'd met before that. We'll save that to the end. I think. Okay. It didn't leave a mark, but I'm pretty sure we did. Okay, listen. Yeah.

I think it would have left him. So I didn't sweat you much. I do want everyone in the world to know you're insanely gracious. You learned everyone's name. You engage with people. I thought you were particularly good at assessing who was kind of low status and you seem to really be kind to those people. It was really moving. Some of these men were so moving. And then you come up to me at the end and you go, hey, are you going to this track day next week?

And I go, yeah, I am. And then I go, oh, right. We both know Duffy. This must be how you know I'm going to that track day. Track day, motos. Vehicles. Motorcycles on the track. Two wheels. I know about vehicles. Two wheels. She's been on some vehicles. I've been on a couple. And you go, hey, you want to ride up on a helicopter with me?

And I go, absolutely. Where's this going? Who's going to say no to that? Of course I will. What should I wear? Bachelor style date. Do you have a favorite color you want me to dress in? So you invited me and I was like, oh, this is incredible. I wasn't even sure if he knew I was in this room. And then we went on this glorious helicopter ride. For me, it was very romantic. Chatting the whole way. And were you like giving a tour? Just

Just slowly. Yeah, slowly get that hand around. Three-hour drive up there, something like that. Oh, it's a beatdown. Yeah. So to get up early and work time on the trail, it's just one of those rock and roll things you get to do every now and then. Yeah. You said you want to go on. I was like, yeah, I'm not sure how I'm going to get on my bike. I'm saying yes, whether I'm on a bike or not, I'll ride someone else's. Yeah.

Let it be known, Dax is rapid. He's fast. You brought him here to give you so many compliments. Let the record also reflect. Brad's very fast too. Okay. Not that much on two wheels. I wasn't as quick as these guys or Channing. Well, he's been doing it a lot.

Chaney was annoyingly good really quick. Really good. And I'm like, yeah, he's one of these athletes that can kind of do every single. Like Lewis, we had Toto on and Toto was like, you know, Lewis is one of these guys who drives you crazy. He can do everything. Just he tries it and he's immediately fast. You just kind of got to do like a subdued Schwarzenegger. It is. It's all

Almost the same. And it's bang on. If Schwarzenegger went to a four-year college, you know. I have a quick question about the meeting before we leave the meeting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go. When you first get there, when it's going around, are you thinking, are people going to talk about me specifically? Is there any nerves going into a meeting when you do have to be very vulnerable and you know people there might

have an extra interest in my story. So I've heard of stories where like Philip Seymour Hoffman went to one and someone videoed it and put it out. Yeah, see, that's scary. But I've been assured by another friend this was a safe place. Two, I am a stubborn fuck. But also when I've stepped in shit, I'm pretty good at taking responsibility for it and owning up to it. And now it's a quest to, you know, what do I do with this? How can I write this? And make sure it doesn't happen again or just... Be better. Yeah, be better.

Step up. So I was really open to that. And I was really open to see what these guys were doing who had their thing and been there for a while. Sure, I was a bit shy. I can generally be a bit shy in any kind of situation first. But I just remember getting my arms around it pretty quickly and it became a thing for me. It was really something I'd look forward to. Me too. That was very kind of special. But it's hard.

Even me in therapy who no one cares, but I'm like, should I tell her? My therapist could care less. But I'm like, should I tell her everything? What if she tells somebody something? No, when I jumped into therapy then, I was just blah, blah, blah, and I did this, and I did that, and da-da-da, and I did that. Good for you. That's trusting. Or... Stupid? Desperate?

Well, desperate's a good reason. Yeah. Yeah, you don't come into AA because everything's working out fantastic. No, that's usually not the entry point. It's not the winner's club. Your hair has got to be on fire before you go like, yeah, I'll go hang with a bunch of dudes and talk about emotions. My feelings. Yeah, my feelings. It's not the most appealing offering. I want to know about Mizuno.

Missouri. Yeah. I think we've bonded over this before. And you saying I want more green in my life is something that I constantly think of as like lakes is in my DNA. You and me both. Shocking. I hadn't read Huckleberry Finn or Tom Sawyer, any of that until maybe two months ago. I read both. Amazing. And now I'm reading the Chernow biography on Mark. I just got it. Good.

Is it great? Yeah, it's awesome. How close were you to where he grew up? It would have been the same. It's the Ozarks. I mean, it's a beautiful country, but it's also the Mason-Dixon line. North and South fought there. It's birthplace of televangelism. Oh, wow. A lot of meth labs. There is this dichotomy that's always at play. And because it's this confluence of Midwestern and Southern, it all kind of flattens out there in a way. You know, our accents are kind of more like this. We just kind of like talk like this and we just keep on going. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And your dad owned a trucking company? At the tail end, he did. He ran a trucking company. Was he himself a truck driver? No. No.

I worked there on the docks. Loading. No, they didn't let me load. They didn't let you. They didn't let you near the fork. And mom was a counselor? She was a teacher and then raised us and then got more into counseling after we left. So you have a very confusing, when I go through my stereotypes of where I grew up in Michigan, people didn't play

tennis. They weren't swimmers. Like your sports, I can't really put you in a box. You were an athlete, but you're golfing and swimming. No, I rebelled against golfing because everyone was golfing. Well, it was rebelling against, it felt like the sport of the religious right. Oh, a little bit to me. My dad, he did all right. We were middle class. He gave us certainly much better than what he had. He was outhouse poor, Oklahoma, and gave us much better.

but I don't know how to bug up my ass about that one. And yet, I've watched all the masters. I love them. I find them so relaxing. They're great to take a nap to, right? They're good to doze and come back in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not much has happened. Come in and see hole 16, 17, 18. That's not really a good selling point. Like, it's good to nap to.

too. You like Nappy? But it is incredible what these guys do. It's amazing. I had no interest in it and then I got sucked into Full Swing, which is the same fucking company that did Drive to Survive. Me too. Love that one. Everything they make, I watch. Do you watch the Jockey one? No. The race for the Triple Crown? No, but we just did one with him. Isle of Man. T.T.

Oh my God. Wait, what? Four episodes with Channing's company. No. And then Channing's going to do a film. Oh, baby. You've been then. I've never been. Okay, that's what we'll do together. Have you been? No. This is the most insane race. And you want to race in it? No. No. Okay. Oh my God. These guys are another breed. Okay. I've told you about this race. A couple people die every single race. Yeah, that sounds horrible. Not last year. Last year they got through. Was that the one you were filming at? Because that would be good. Yeah.

Yeah. You got lucky. Like even the MotoGP guys go, uh-uh, those guys are fucking nuts. Okay, great. We're right here. What it enrages in me is you're a coward. I'm so afraid to do that. And now weirdly, I have got to do that because I'm a coward if I don't do this. That's what drove me to it. He has so much shame. What drove you to it? There is that white trash side of the Ozarks. Gross.

Growing up, getting on a mini bike and being at the lake and in bass boats. And my dad would give it to us at 12 and we'd take the boat out ourselves. And then driving too early and driving on dirt roads, driving in the rain, driving in the ice. Did it snow there? Oh, yeah. Driving in the snow is the funnest thing a young man can do. Except you hit the black ice. It'll surprise you. Yeah. The motorcycle thing, just you started watching it.

No, I had one when I was a kid and then kind of lost it in the 90s and then got back on it. I'd kind of watched a little bit in the McDoon period when he was winning MotoGP. That's a crazy story because he had a horrible accident in the early 90s. They were going to take his leg. He said, don't.

Please don't. Don't. You may not. And they revolutionized this thing that's now a common practice where they fused his two legs together to get blood supply. Whoa. And worked, got up, won five championships. What? Yeah. And now his son is Jack Dewan, who was driving for Alpine. Oh, my. That's his son? He's a rookie this year? Yeah. Oh, wow. I had no idea. I just had a flashback. Did you ever go to Demolition Derby? Oh, God, yeah. Okay. So Demolition Derby is...

A bunch of guys get in a car, any kind of car. Usually station wagons won because they would go in reverse. And they just bang the shit out of each other and the last man standing wins. Sometimes there's a figure eight. But I went to those a lot. And then I had a crazy uncle who was a preacher, had this kind of Elvis hairdo, and he raced stock cars. You just grew up around him.

Yeah. How much were you in search of masculinity? I was deeply. My story is my dad wasn't around. So I was like, whatever the dude said to do, ride a wheelie, jump your bike, whatever the thing was, fight. I was racing towards it. I had to get some kind of masculine validation.

Were you in search of that? I never put that much thought into it. My dad was a pretty cool customer, and I think I absorbed it. You know, I see it in my roles. I'm either doing him or I'm rebelling against him in some way. Oh, fun, yeah. Is he with us still? Yes, he's 83. Going to see him next week. Oh, wow.

He's pretty cool. But, you know, going to the drive-in theaters, they didn't have a lot of money, so we would pop popcorn by the time we got there. It was wet. They'd make Kool-Aid, and we'd go sit on the front of the big Buick and watch movies in our neighborhood. We had a drive-in theater. Yeah, but also these ideas of masculinity because...

We've seen a lot of Clint Eastwood. We would see Butch and Sundance. Yeah. Do you have brothers and sisters? I got a younger brother, younger sister. Okay. So you're firstborn. Yeah. That wouldn't have been my guess. You don't read as firstborn. Why? You're kind of too nice. What was your thing? Because I'm firstborn. We are bossy, I suppose. I associate that type of adventure with a middle or youngest. Right.

Ah, okay. That's the other thing. I had an older brother five years older than me. So whatever he was doing, I was trying to do. So he was in a BMX and then I was in a BMX. You're always trying to raise the stakes when you're a younger sibling. Improve yourself. That'd be my brother, certainly. Really? Always getting in trouble. Yeah. Is he wild? He was wild then. Now he's uber successful and whatever he takes on, he masters it. But that was the thing, I think, when you talk about masculinity, maybe I put in terms of capability because that was...

A big thing with my dad, you get up and you do it. And he had us mowing the lawn at eight, you know, like he shouldn't be wearing these blades and things. But all my life I had a job. Okay. So maybe that's another thing I chase and maybe do is competence. Competence is so hot.

I'm going to agree with you. You talked about all those sports. I was okay at all of them. Didn't stick with any of them long enough to be great at them. Not that I even could. Yeah. But to be competent in all of them. Yeah. Did you ever have to beat anyone up to save your brother? No. In fact, I remember he got in fights before I did. Oh, okay. Yeah. I remember getting in a fight and I grabbed the guy in the balls. Oh, wow.

it worked yeah desperation again it worked i wonder why it worked though it was it because it hurt so bad because everyone's such a homophobe was that happening then was there like a lot of calling yeah don't cry yeah don't be gay yeah a lot of that that was that era error that era but error it's

It's still happening, though. We thought it was gone. And then we were talking to Dax's kid the other day. She was like, this kid in my class is racist. And she was like telling, I'm like, he is racist. Oh, yeah. Like crazy racist in L.A. school. And there were 10. And I thought it was done. And maybe it's just human nature to be cruel. It is, I think. Yeah. And nice. Yeah. No, benevolent is the word I was looking for. Yeah. Okay. So you go to University of Missouri. Yeah. You must have had pretty good grades. I was all right. Yeah.

Yeah, just all right. Good enough. Yeah, good enough. And you wanted to do journalism? I wanted to do architecture, but there wasn't an architectural...

path at Mizzou, but they had the best journalism school. And then I thought, I don't really want to interview people, but I'll design magazines or movie posters. It was going kind of the design angle. Had you read Fountainhead already? I had not read Fountainhead. Okay. Let's talk about Fountainhead for one second. Okay. I'm not a big fan, by the way. I, 20 years ago,

I read some interview with you. I swore it said you liked Fountainhead. I think I did then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what I want to talk about. Because I was like, I'm going to check that book out. This is his favorite book.

I read it and I was like, oh, yeah, Howard Rourke. I want to be Howard. No matter what happens, it's just proven I'm right. That's a very appealing archetype when you're young. People who haven't read it, what is he like? Howard Rourke is basically Frank Lloyd Wright, right? That's the kind of model. That's the idea, his model. Yeah, Ayn Rand modeled it off Frank Lloyd Wright. Yeah, so he would design things for people, but he wasn't really interested in what they wanted. He was a genius and he would come in and he would build something for you that would show you what you want.

Yes. Yeah. It's his vision. Certainly people would be against it, but when it was all over, he would be right. And I think when you're 20, you're like, yeah, man, validation. I was right. That's all you want. I'm a genius. And there was also this idealism of she came from socialism and this idea of an individual voice and supporting the individual voice, I think meant a lot to her. And I think is the basis behind this. And so as a young person, you read the idealism because she,

Spoiler alert, he'll burn it all down if you take his thing and corrupt it. There was no group sport in it. So in this day and age, blowing up buildings is not really... It's not cool. Yeah. Not the cool. It's not the course you want to take. There's other ways to handle it, probably. Yeah. Okay, so you already had loved architecture. So yeah, if you already loved architecture and you're in your 20s and you read that book, it's like, this thing was written for me. Yeah. Then did you read Atlas Shrugged? Yes. James Galt, what is it? Galt. Galt, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I read it and then I went...

Yeah, it fell apart for me reading that. I know so many people love this book, but for me, it was like, we're special and we're going to keep our specialness to us. Similar theme. It was all about individualism. Yeah. But it was also this entitlement to our opinion is right and we're best and we're going to keep it to ourselves because you don't deserve us. Compromise would be a very ugly word for her or any of those books. Right. Now, is this true? No.

That you left college a week before graduation? No, I actually went through graduation. I just didn't finish my last week of classes and actually graduate. But my parents were already coming. Oh, you went to the ceremony, but you didn't graduate. Fucking walked the line, hat and all, cap. You wanted to be able to throw your hat. Well, sure. It's very much. I'm going to miss that. That's a crazy fucking decision. No, because I decided, come to L.A.

You only had one week left. I had one week left, but what's the Spike Jonze movie adaptation? Remember when Chris Cooper talks about, he's into orchids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He talked about his former Jonze was about some kind of fish breeding. I think it was Merrill asking him what happens, and he says, done with fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It felt like that for me. Just done. I was kind of lamented that movies weren't an option. I'd always loved movies. I met this friend whose dad had a condo in Burbank.

and said I could stay there for one month. Ugh. And I went, green light. I'm going to it. And he moved to Beverly. Wow. What car did you drive out for that? Datsun 200SX. Oh, wow. With the bumper hanging off. Okay. It wasn't in great shape. Do you still have it? No. Oh, sometimes it's

It's fun to have those old original. Do you fantasize about getting any of the stupid cars you have? Because I had a 91 Honda Civic DX for a decade here. And I want to get one and make it fucking fast. I was just looking at my dad had a 74 Monte Carlo. You got to get it. Just looking it up. You got to get it. Just for fun. Just a little tribute. How often are you scrolling those cars?

Be honest. Almost as often as I'm scrolling Zillow. Yeah, I know. Zillow will really hit you. I love house porn. House porn, car porn, bike porn. Well, you've been in this situation for a long time, but for so long, it was just, I dreamt about it and then I could do it. And then I did it. I bought too much stuff. I saw the toys out there. It looks fun. This is me now constrained. So I,

I have these rules I have to have in place. Like I have to look at the car like 10 times. So you make sure that you put the time in to make it worth its while. That's right. Because I'm dangerous. I get on bring a trailer and I'm like, oh my fucking God, I need that thing so bad. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare.

We are supported by Domino's. You know, I have the app. Me too. It's not talked about in this ad spot, but I do got to give a shout out to the lava cakes. Mmm.

They're outrageous. I want it right now. At long last, Domino's finally, finally has stuffed crust pizza and not just stuffed crust, Parmesan stuffed crust. Oh, man. What are you waiting for? Who doesn't love a little Parmesan? Nobody. That's who. It's hard to believe it's taken them this long to make a stuffed crust pizza, but let me tell you, this was worth the wait. They've taken their buttery-flavored handmade pan pizza dough and stuffed it with melty cheese. Wow.

And if that wasn't enough, they topped it with garlic seasoning and, yes, real Parmesan. I can taste it. I love mine smothered with pepperoni. Oh. The more the better. Okay, all this talk about Domino's has got me hungry, and I think I've got tonight's dinner plans all figured out. Order Domino's new Parmesan stuffed crust pizza on the Domino's app and use code DAX to get any three-topping Parmesan stuffed crust pizza for $11.99. That's code DAX on the Domino's app to try it today.

Prices higher in some locations. You must ask for this limited time offer. Prices, participation, delivery area, and charges may vary. Delivery orders subject to local stores. Delivery charge.

We are supported by BetterHelp. You know, there's still a bit of surrounding stigma for men's health. I think it can still be challenging for men to admit they're struggling and seek help. I have a friend who just started therapy, a male friend, and he loves it so much. But yes, I think it's taken a little...

extra long because you're right, there is a stigma, but there really shouldn't be. Yeah, men today face immense pressure to perform, to provide, and keep it all together. So it's no wonder that six million men in the U.S. suffer from depression every year, and it's often undiagnosed. If you're a man and you're feeling the weight of the world, talk to someone, a friend, a loved one, a therapist. I'm a man.

I've benefited greatly from therapy. And BetterHelp is a great option if you're looking to start therapy. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Armcherries get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash DAX. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash DAX.

The CareCredit credit card lets me pay over time for just about anything my dog needs, from food to vet care. But, but, what if, hypothetically speaking, I got a bird? No, a horse. Well, I've got good news for my hypothetical self. CareCredit is accepted at more than 270,000 locations and works for, wait for it,

And the even better part is, it also works for me. I can use it for spa trips, dental treatments, and more. CareCredit offers flexible financing for all my hypothetical animals and hypothetical me. Visit CareCredit.com to apply and find a location near you, subject to credit approval. Why are there ridges on Reese's peanut butter cups? Probably so they never slip from her hands. Could you imagine? I'd lose it. Luckily, Reese's thought about that. Wonder what else they think about. Probably chocolate and peanut butter.

music

Okay, so you drove out into Dotson. I did hear a funny story about you wanting to get your SAG card and interjecting a line. Oh, I got shut down so hard. I was doing extra work for about a year and a half before I got to do something real. And I was thrilled. I loved it. I couldn't believe I'd be on set. When I landed in Burbank, I got the paper, I went to McDonald's, I had $275 left in my name. There were three extra agencies, you could pay them 25 bucks and you were in. I've

I found it in the paper and I got in. I'm doing an industrial video by the end of the week. And I get this, I get this gig. You're already inflating what happened. I'm an extra in this movie. I land this role. I land this. The job is extra. It's a wager. When I started, I put them on a resume like they were real. And it still haunts me. That's great. It's a restaurant scene. The main characters, Charlie Sheen and D.B. Sweeney and a bunch of other actors that I wasn't necessarily aware of.

And I am the waiter. I'm supposed to bring up champagne and pour champagne. They show me how to do it. You got to pour, you spin, you wipe the thing. I said, great. That's more than an extra. Well, it was a chosen extra. Oh, wow. I got put forward. Oh, my God. And the whole game was, how do you get your SAG card? Because you can't get a job if you don't have your SAG card. But you can't get your SAG card unless you've had a job. So it was just catch 22. Specifically, you need to speak. Yeah, that was the barrier to entry. Yes. Yes.

And like a jackass, they're doing the scene. I get to the last actor and she seemed lower on the totem pole. Like I thought. Maybe. And literally the scene is going on. I pour her champagne and I go, would you like anything else? No.

I want the dailies from Matt. We do. Oh, my God. First AD runs over. You do that again, you're out of here. Oh, my God. It was just Shane for the rest of the night. Took a shot. Look, it was there. These are the best stories. Favreau has one. Took a shot.

Favreau is an extra. I think it's Hoffman, Hoffer or something. Something's shooting in Chicago when he lives there. He's an extra and he's in a van and he's driving through the background of a scene. It occurs to him, they're not going to be able to see me. They're

There's not enough light in here. No. So he decides, no, I'm going to turn on the interior lights and I'm going to drop the visor and turn that light on. Take three. Someone finally knows like what's going on. Why is it extra lit in the van? God, you can't light yourself. Oh my God. Industrious. Oh my God. Yeah. We're desperate. Yeah. It's so hard. Oh,

How long before you were, I guess when Selma and Louise, how long before we get that? They would say, what, five years. If you're not working in five years, go home. I got that at year four. We just need to honorably mention Monica and I shared favorite movie is Seven. Yeah, it's actually hard for me to...

With you sitting there and think it's you. Yeah. That's that thing. It's that thing. You've watched it so many times. It holds up. It does hold. Oh, it's bulletproof. That's David Fincher. That's Andy, Kevin Walker. But the two of you also. Yeah. What about working with Morgan? I interviewed Morgan this year. Put the gun down, David. Yeah. Oh my God. No, he's the voice of God. I had hit a point. No,

94 is such a bugged out year. That's Cobain. That's OJ. The whole summer. I had had not such great experiences coming off a couple of jobs. And I just wasn't sure what I was doing. I had the weirdest summer. I had this girlfriend who was into reptiles. We bought 40 chameleons. I was living in Errol Flynn's old bachelor pad, glass windows, and they were filled. Our house was like a terrarium. Girlfriend who was into reptiles.

It's so specific. Not five or ten. I know. I know. I know. Were you showing off like, we'll take them all? It was the most unhealthy time. I just needed to check out. I would wake up. I'd get a bong load. I'd have four Coca-Colas on ice. No food. This particular summer, and I've watched the OJ trial, and trying to figure out what do I do next? What do I do next? Yeah.

And then I read this script, my dear friend and manager and basically my sister. Now, Cynthia sends this over. She says, you got to read this. I read the first seven pages. I call her up. I go, are you kidding me? The cliche, the old cop wants out. The young cop comes in. He's looking at his trophies, his high school football trophies. She goes, just finish it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then I go meet Finch, and he was just talking about films like I'd never heard anyone speak about film. Yeah, what had he made already? Just Alien 3, and he had had a crap experience on that. Got fired off it three times. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. And I just got the Jones back and finding that. It just reinvigorated what I wanted out of this thing, what's possible. Can I argue there's a humility to that performance that...

I'm wondering, was that new? Because you're coming off of California. Like, I watched California, and that's kind of the dream role I would want to play growing up. Hey, Dale, put your titty back in your shirt. Hey, Dale, put your titty back up. Back up. Yeah. That's who I want to be. I want to drink the fucking beer and be a badass and all that stuff. And so to go play, you're kind of a putz in Seven. Yeah. It's the naivete or even the hubris.

that you think you know the world. And that's what I liked about the Mills character. You grow up in this vacuum, you see the world as your own backyard, and you do not appreciate that there are people who think differently than you, have ulterior motives, other beauties, different beliefs. And that was always kind of a theme for me, this idea of...

of your own hubris anytime I've ever gotten knocked down it's been because of hubris it's been because I think I know what's going on yeah yeah I think I know the score but you gotta go in there and say lines like no he's fucking dancing around his grandma's underpants or whatever the hell that line is yeah yeah

Like there's no vanity in that. No, he thinks he understands. There's good and there's bad. There's black and there's white. And that's the world. Bad guys got to go. It's that kind of stupidity. Was it already the situation where it's like a bazillion takes? I answered this with a lot of insecurity. Like, I'm not sure I belong here. That would have triggered for me, like, I suck.

I don't think it's completely fair for my friend David Fincher because I think he's brilliant and he knows what he wants. The only time I ever did that was on Fight Club and it was a big Steadicam shot outside in the parking lot, coming into the bar, going down, starting the Fight Club. That was like 40 takes. But they're so technical. Yeah. So usually there's a technical aspect of it or...

If he needs to beat the acting out of the actor, which is the Kubrick way. And that's the only time I've ever seen it flare up in that way. It never triggered your insecurities. He is not shy to do it. No, in fact, I was more insecure...

The first three takes, four takes, I'm trying to find my way. At that time, I'd feel safer. Now, like two takes, please. Yeah, I got to get home. Take a half. Stitch together. Yeah, take the half and take that and you can edit. I guess it's true. If you're doing that many, you feel safe that one has worked. I did, but it was so important to me. How much insecurity were you working with at that period? First half of the career was a lot of insecurities.

and always doubting. You know, you get in there, you get in the ring, and you have this amount of time, and that's concretized. That goes into cement, and that's it. Also, it's not like you necessarily had some long period where you're working with okay actors. You're pretty immediately working with, I don't know, Legends of the Fall. You were with Anthony Hopkins right out of the gate. Yeah, it was cool. I feel like my learning has really been on film. Also, it came from just a love of movies and a love of performance and wanting to make sure I got it right. Like, there's this idea, right? And what you learn to understand is...

It's just being truthful. And if it's truthful, it's going to play. What's the first time you felt that? Oh, that's a good question, Monty. It is a good question. Oh, man. I just know the best moments I started figuring out in the 90s were things I hadn't planned for. They were...

being in the moment and then it flows. I'm not sure when I'm good and not. There's times I thought I was great and I'm just okay. And there's times I think I suck and I'm kind of good. That's the early stuff. Yeah. Fucking rock that one. And you look at it and you go, oh my God. I do have some moments. One of the first one was in this teen horror film. One of my very first jobs. For some reason, I was thinking I was Sean Penn. I run into high school. I see a dead teacher and I go, no.

No. I don't even know this guy. I wish you had a wall to fall on against and slide down. Is it your street car moment? Exactly. I'm afraid to ask you this one, but here we go. Have you ever heard this Cary Grant quote? Everyone wants to be Cary Grant.

Even I want to be Cary Grant. Yeah. Do you relate to that at all? Maybe the earlier years. I don't know. I don't even think much about perception anymore. But yeah, certainly people look at you this way and I don't feel that good. Other people look at me like I'm an asshole and I go, I feel a little better than that. Yeah. You run into that. But I don't think about perception much anymore.

I believe in what I'm doing. I understand my craft. I feel like I elevate the jobs I'm in and I make sure I do and I put the work in. I work hard. When were you able to drop that? I made a big switch. I remember going in the 90s going, you could plug any one of us into this role, this kind of movie, this leading man kind of thing. It's all going to be the same. So that's boring. And it's really about chasing an image. And then I made a switch.

in the early aughts where I said, I know the movies I've enjoyed this far and why. I'm not taking anything because someone tells me it should or it's good or someone else is going to get it if I don't. I did a couple of those and it always didn't work. And I just made the switch and really I enjoy what I do. Now, and I'm going to admit that this is really Malcolm Gladwell's question because I admire him so much and we're pals. And I called him and I was like, I'm interviewing Pitt and I'm nervous. Yeah.

I want it to be great. And I'm wondering if we have the same curiosity. What is your great curiosity about him? And he said, I guess I'm most curious the gap between the public Brad Pitt and the real Brad Pitt, if that gap has shrank or gotten broader. Wow. And I thought that's a cool question. And I guess I'm curious. I don't break a lot of this down. That's a hard, I don't know if I'd put it in either way because I'm

I go in and I go in hard. I work hard. And then I always need to disappear and step out. I just need to refill. I'm not that guy that's really can be out and about in the public and people. And I've always enjoyed my solitude, not my loneliness, not those periods, but the solitude. That can even be with loved ones and friends or family. And I really need it.

I'm getting ready to start now this big press gauntlet juggernaut for this film that deserves to go worldwide. And I got to go do that. I'll get up for it as I need to do. I don't feel like I'm very good at it. I've always been a little embarrassed.

this side of it. And I still have that feeling each time. I got to get myself up for it. And it takes a lot out of me. So then I need to step back and really disappear. And that's worked well for me. So has it gotten bigger or smaller? I think it's gotten smaller, my relationship with it. The gap's gotten smaller. Is the embarrassment because it feels...

Like there's some kind of lack of humility in that part of the job? Yeah, you know, where we grew up and especially that era, you're a braggart if you talk about yourself, you're conceited. And I got accused of that a lot as a kid, even just being quiet. I'd get accused of being conceited or something and I didn't understand that. And then there's just the fear I'll always have of just putting my foot in my mouth or stepping in a pile of shit. Yeah. Having to live with it. I've never considered this my specialty. I'd rather...

make things, whether that's a chair or a shirt or a movie and let it speak for itself and move on and get to the next. But this is a group sport and we got to support it. My arc, I'm embarrassed to even try to compare it to yours, but my arc was I wanted it so bad. It happened. It was so fun for a minute.

Then I was down in Austin, I was making Idiocracy and I was in Fuddruckers and I was like, oh, that table of people staring at me. Oh, that table's also staring at me. And I remember leaving the restaurant, calling my girlfriend, almost in tears going like, I have no control over my environment anymore. And it felt very claustrophobic. Then I hated it. And then I came to accept it. And then even more profound in therapy, a few years back, the dude really figured out or helped me figure it out.

I feel very fraudulent receiving that attention. I don't feel worthy of that. Yeah, that's fair enough. But when you say worthy, because the importance isn't there. It's looked at from afar like it's important in some way. And I have a similar version of that. I mean, the way I was able to get my arms around it was, I just remember when I saw my first celebrity. I moved here and in a week I saw John Cusack at a Fishbone concert. I embarrassed the person with me because I was like, I thought about that. And they were like, shut up.

You're in LA. She turned her back on me. That's not cool here. Yeah, that's not cool. But I just remember what it meant to me. I met the Harlem Globetrotters when I was a kid. I got pulled out on the court. No. Yeah. First taste. Metal Ark and all of that. Remember? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Curly and the OGs. The original squad. And what it meant to me. And so when you look at it that way, that you can brighten someone's day, it could be like a highlight in some way. Like those days were for me.

That's how I found my way around it, at least. Yeah, I was doing an interview with Owen Wilson years ago, and I thought he summed it up the best. He goes, you know, it's kind of cool if you think about the fact that you can just make someone's day. I was like, well, that is a cool power. Yeah, it's a lovely thing. You need to, like, accept it. It's easy to get caught in fighting it. Yeah. And you can ruin your life, I think, because no guidebook tells you that part of it. I just love movies. I didn't really understand movies.

fame. Yeah, that part of it. What you lose, what the trade-off is. But we got to talk about Punk'd because Punk'd was pretty revolutionary. Jackass and then into Punk'd were

We're coming off this time where we got to be tough guys. We don't show weakness to this punk rock kind of approach. Like, no, no, no, not only that, we're going to embarrass ourselves the most we can. And there was a real freedom in that switch that happened. I don't think I can appreciate that. I rank punked up there as something kind of revolutionary. Really? No, I mean this. I mean this. Thank you. Yeah. Jackass as well. Okay, great. So that's one of my questions. Okay, great. Great. Thank you for the compliment. I want nothing but approval. And then when I get it, I'm like, I don't.

All I want is approval and yet I can't stand it. You don't think of someone who needs approval at all. Do you? I think you do. I wouldn't put it that way either. I know if I like the work I'm putting out there, if I like the stories, it's

Not going to speak to everyone, but I know it's going to speak to someone else too. And I have a comfort in that. So it's different than approval. When I think of what movies meant to me as a kid, living in a Christian vacuum, you saw different ways to handle things and you saw different cultures and things around the world.

You saw John Travolta swearing at his dad for messing up his hair. I was caught on my hair. That kind of shit. And I was just enraptured with it. And movies for me was that kind of other teaching. You as Brad, do you need it? Like Dax...

And I need. We're bottomless pits. Approval from, let's be really honest, people who we think are. High status. High status. It's the gross way of saying it. It's my grossest quality. People I admire. Yeah. Exactly. Yes. So that's fair. Yes. And by the way, I still feel like that kid in Oklahoma.

Oklahoma, Missouri, Ozarks, who's still like groping his way through this whole thing. Still kind of can't believe you're here. No, I take total responsibility for being here. But to me, it's just another craft. Like anyone who works hard at what they do and has confidence in what they do. Now, Jackass, the person I admire the most is Will Ferrell. I will not miss a Will Ferrell movie. More what I love is his art installations as a human. So I'm at a Lakers game one time. I'm with Chris and I go,

a security guard looks like Will Ferrell. You know, the Lakers, the guys with the red jackets. Yeah. Thank God. It really looks like Will Ferrell. And I'm like, that's Will Ferrell. Will Ferrell sitting there as a security guard next to the other security guard. Oh my God. I interviewed him. I'm like, whoa,

I saw you at the lake and he goes, oh, I have this bit with Adam where on our birthdays, we give each other outfits and then you have to go use the outfit wherever. And so Adam gave him the full security. And he smuggled it into the Staples Center and he went into the bathroom and put the outfit on.

And I'm like, I just admire it so much. I'm almost mad at myself. I haven't thought of that. But I love the sabotage, the underground fun you got to have with this thing. We'll do that with interviews, going down press lines on Oceans. Like, Matt, you have to use God willing in every single interview. Or give him some word or something. But what I really like about you is I'm watching Jackass one time, which I loved.

And all of a sudden, you're on the show. And they kidnap you. Celebrity kidnapping. Yes. It was great. What? And I'm like, he likes Jackass. Did you reach out to them? I'm not sure how it happened. I knew Spike through Fincher. They were shooting Bing John Malkovich right next to us while we were shooting. We'd visit the 7th.

18th and a half floor, whatever it was. I loved Jackass. I loved what they were doing. Again, I thought it was revolutionary. Maybe with Spike, I said, if you ever need, I'm in. And then Knoxville called up. How'd you end up on Dave? There's another thing. I'm watching Dave, you're on, and I go, oh my God. And then I reverse engineer. I go like, Brad loves Dave. How rad. I love Dave. My favorite humor is the most irreverent humor. Maybe because I'm so worried stepping shit, people who say the wrong thing.

I will at times say things that are so wrong and it just makes me laugh. And so maybe he got word that I really liked his show and he wrote me, said, hey, you want to do something? And I just said, I'm trying, but I can't find a reason not to. So I guess I have to. Oh, that's a great answer. It's good karma to go participate in the things you love in my genius show. Yeah, he's incredible. And I so admire that wit because I don't feel like I necessarily have that really quick wit.

Isn't it funny who people like admire? Like I was watching the you and Adam Sandler, you did the actor on actor thing. Oh, right. And I was like, drama dudes love comedians. Comedians love drama dudes. I love comedians. All of us want to be musicians. I love comedians. Love musicians. Yeah.

God, we all just want to be the thing we're not. It's wild. How could you not? Okay, so I saw Once Upon a Time when it came out. I liked it a lot. Then five years went by, and I'm on a plane a year and a half ago, and it's there. So I start watching it, and I'm like, this movie is way better than I remember.

And then we get off the plane and now I got to finish it. So now I'm in a hotel room watching it on my iPad. And then I'm like, I got to watch it in my theater. I come home, I watch it in the theater. Then I'm like, I got to watch it with my friend Nate in the theater. He's got to rewatch it again. And I've watched it now sincerely probably eight times in the last 18 months. I'm so obsessed with that movie. I think it's second best to only Pulp Fiction. It's so good. And then I started thinking, wow.

The one bummer about being in a Tarantino movie is do you rob yourself of the experience of getting to watch the Tarantino movie? There's no bummer about being in a Tarantino movie. Okay. That dialogue. Come on. I encourage you to watch it eight times in the next 18 months. That will never happen.

If you need to watch it with me in my theater. Watching your own shit. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. That could rob you of the experience. Can we talk about Leonardo in it for one second? Come on, he's great. In my obsession with this movie, and the more and more I watch it, the more and more I'm blown away with his performance. Me too. I haven't watched it eight times, but he's playing like six layers.

He's an actor. He's not as good as Leonardo DiCaprio as an actor, but he's got to have the scene of his life. But it can't be as good as a Leonardo DiCaprio scene. Yeah. I don't think people understand the math of what he's doing. That's the thing that's least understood is the degree of difficulty. And even we'll get credit for a great director or great writing. Perfect song choice. Yes, absolutely. Great editing. We need all these accoutrements to help us out. But no, he was doing multiple layers in there and

That star tantrum cracks me up. Buddy, I'm a has-been. That's it, old buddy, I'm a has-been. He's crying as he leaves the place.

I'm not going to ask you to rank your co-stars, but just where does he fall now? Do you love acting with him? Yeah, he works hard too. I watch someone like him or Margot works so hard. I can go through phases where I'm approaching it a little easy. I'm wondering if maybe I don't have the fire anymore or maybe not offering. Then I find something else or I see performances like that. And then I go, ooh, got to up my game. I want to be like that. Yeah.

Look at all the cast in that. These were all up-and-comers, new kids. You got Austin Butler, Margaret Qualley, Sidney Sweeney, Mikey Mattson, Ethan Hawke's daughter. Pretty incredible. Now they're all doing their own things. That was part of my joy of going back and watching it over and over again. I was like, oh, I know all these people now. Yeah, that's really fun to see. Yeah, that's part of his genius is being able to scout talent and then help them blow up. Your resume is annoying because we're not going to get to talk about- No, we're not. We don't.

Oceans is one of my favorites of all time. I came into this show, talked about Moneyball for like three months straight. We just had Michael Lewis on. Oh, really? What a fucking dude. What a brain, huh? Oh, my God. He's so charismatic and charming. And eloquent. Genius, but chill. I would want him to like me. Yeah. Yes, me too. Approval. I wanted him desperately. Okay, the only thing I want to ask about once upon a time, and then we'll move on, is I was getting Duffy vibes.

Is he at all in the mix? We owe Duffy an explanation of who he is. Ah, that's funny. I thought I was watching Duffy. I see my dad. But I understand Duffy's got some of my dad in him. That's not a bad call. Our mutual friend Duffy was a Navy SEAL. He's the toughest human being on planet Earth. Yep, rock solid. He's gorgeous. Okay. If you can't see that, you need fucking glasses. He's the only 60-year-old man I see like 30-year-olds fucking buying him drinks and shit. Okay.

There's one scene I always love to point out. G.I. Jane. He's a trainer. Thank you. He's a trainer. How long has he been your trainer? I met him on Troy. Okay. So I trained him on Troy in a few, probably the next decade. In G.I. Jane, they needed real Navy SEALs in the movie. And he's in the movie. Is that right? Watch it. Okay. Because there's one moment where they need someone to do the ultimate Navy SEAL thing, which is they're in a Zodiac boat and they're flying. Someone's got to hang out of the side of the Zodiac with a fucking inner tube. And the guy in the water grabs it. And then Duffy rips the human.

being out of the water. The lats are like that wide. Yeah, that's him. And you're like, how'd that dude just rip a guy out of the water on a Zodiac going 25 miles an hour? Those guys, Navy SEALs, Rangers, Delta Force, I mean, their baseline is discomfort. Where we would tap out, that's where they begin. So if that character's your dad...

You said they're either your dad or you're rebelling against your dad. What are the characters that you are actively rebelling against? Really my upbringing, when I say my dad, probably my upbringing, like Fight Club and things that are more irreverent. Maybe even being flashy in Oceans. Was I flashy? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're embracing the flash in that. I feel like we lost our way after the first one, or at least my guy, because he was kind of the Deval Consigliere guy to George's Danny. I'd like that much more. And then, you know, when you watch CSI or something, they're trying to give a speech, but they got to give each actor one line. Yeah. They just pick up in each line and just equal distribution. Everyone needs a moment. Yes. It kind of went that way.

One last question, then F1. You've worked in four different decades now. 90s, 2000s, 2010s. We're now in your fourth decade. Do you have a favorite of those decades of working? No. Then I don't have a follow-up question. Oh, okay. Is there a sweet spot you get nostalgic about? It's more like periods. So certainly seven and then losing my way a bit with choices and then landing back with Fight Club and Snatch. Snatch. This area felt good. How did you learn that accent?

G'day, Cadaga. Can you still talk like him? She's terribly partial to the Perdy Winkle Blue Boy. Bice? Something like that. Perdy Winkle Blue Bice. Oh, my God. I don't know. She's terribly partial. I don't know. It's taking a bit. I would be so scared to take that role. I was, too. I'm sure. Yeah, scary. Okay, so motorsports. We talked about why you're into motorsports. Oh, wait. Before we started, I brought you a gift. Oh, you did? I brought you a Apex GP souvenir. I cannot wait. I didn't bring you one. That's so funny.

You're gonna understand why. I don't even know what that is. Could you give her like a hundred bucks or something? Oh my gosh, this is exciting and unboxing. I wasn't anticipating it. Yeah, it looks bag and all.

I'm on the team. Okay. Look at the front. First of all, you don't know this about me. Black and gold's my scheme. Maybe I did know. This is day one. This is the pit crew shirts. And we have real crew. Proper car guys. And they bring the shirts out all for the guys. It's day one. We're in Silverstone. We're shooting. The crowd's there. It's race weekend. And they start getting shit from the other teams. Just look what's on the back. The action factory. But they put it on tramp stamp. Oh. Ha ha ha ha ha.

And we started getting so much shit from the other crews. We were between Mercedes and Ferrari. And they were laughing their ass off at our team. That is fantastic. So they switch out all the shirts, change them, but I saved one. Someone went, can you get Glenn from wardrobe? Oh, my God, Dex, that's so special. You got a tramp stamp one. You got the tramp stamp one.

Maybe by the end of knowing you, I'll have a full wardrobe of clothes you've given me. I've got two items. I'm going to work on the waist down now. Okay, so I had it wrong, and I've wrongly taken a little bit of credit for this. Again, I'm an approval junkie. But my telling of it is I text you at one point, and I said, are you watching Drive to Survive? If not, text me when you've...

I bet it'll be in 18 hours, something along those lines. Yes, yes, I remember this. You did. You texted me like eight hours later. You're like, oh, fuck, I watched them all. Yeah, probably nine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you fell in love with it like I did from that, right? Well, I'd been watching a little because MotoGP races, there's just not enough of them. There's not. So then you start dipping into F1 a little bit. Now there's not enough F1 races, so I started dipping into Indy. You watching Indy? No.

You're in. Oh, I love it. I've even, as a tourist, I've stepped into NASCAR a little bit. Oh. Okay. Okay. Okay. I've done a little dabbling in NASCAR too. I really recommend the night race at Bristol. That's a vibe. Wow. That's like old fashioned. You feel like, yeah, there's bootleggers out here. Yeah, yeah, good. Just real quick, Valentino Ross.

Oh, come on. Still miss him. Don't we miss him? Number one God. Don't you? I don't even want to talk about it. I miss him so much. If I had to say the number one God on planet Earth, I think it's Valentino Rossi. Yeah, it's Valentino Rossi. He's so fucking charming. Have you ever seen that thing with Lewis and Valentino? No, I've been told. I keep meaning to go look it up.

So Lewis gets on his bike and Valley gets in his car. That's right. And they go out on the track and they both put down times. And Valley's fucking fast. I'm sure he is. And Lewis is fucking great on the bike. Yeah, he's going to be. Yeah. You seen there's some video he's put out where he went to a gun range? No. Oh my God. Yeah.

He's just like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Oh, my God. Yeah, I guess he's a great surfer. He can do everything. And well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you fall extra in love with it, though, through Drive to Survive, I'm imagining. Yeah. I've been dipping in, I guess, a little in the aughts, you know, in the Schumacher period. I wasn't in, like, the religion that it is now. I think the show really...

I think he did a lot, especially for America, bringing in new fans. But people have their driver and it's like the success or the struggle of this driver is emblematic of their life. The emotional rollercoaster we've been on by being really good friends with Ricardo is almost too much for us. It is too much. It's heartbreaking. I know. We love him so much. I know there's a second generation of where he's going to go in the sport doing something. Absolutely. Yeah.

Oh, I know. You know, like the gods are with you. Everyone has their own path. And the confidence and how tenuous your grasp on the confidence is. Yeah, even Lewis talks about that. Oh, he does. You know, there's a win last year in Silverstone in an inferior car. He was having doubts. And we're talking about fractions of a second. Such a mindfuck. Fractions. Sometimes one or two hundredths of a second for Paul. The idea that 20 guys can go around four-mile track, three-and-a-half-mile track and be within a second of each other. It's crazy.

And the guys on the back end are considered slow. Yeah. Yes. So you don't initiate this. You get approached. I get a call from Joe. Okay. The director. Joe Kaczynski. This mapping technology that he discovered on Top Gun Maverick, mapping in the planes. He has this idea he can do this with the cars on the track.

Formula One cars. So very wisely, he said, we're outsiders. I got to have the tap on the shoulder from someone on the inside. And he goes to seven time world champion Lewis Hamilton. Let's go to the greatest driver. Yeah. And you got to understand, I've been trying to get a racing movie made for 20 years.

in cars, in different classes, in bikes, Isle of Man even. And for whatever reason, it just never came to fruition. They're kind of high risk. They're hard to do really well. They are hard to do really well. In fact, when we talk about this one,

The most difficult thing of it was threading this needle between a faction of fans, again, that revered this sport as the greatest thing on this earth and people who don't understand how the sport works, but are just going to enjoy the movie. So this thing that we're constantly trying to negotiate, like Moneyball,

the analytics of it all. - Yeah. - We only used the surface analytics of the easy things that we could understand of don't steal, go for walks, and the analytics that they were doing were so much deeper, so much more complex. So how to tell the story, it's not gonna piss off the fans. - Right. - And you're not dumbing down for the fans.

but it's not going to be over the head. It's a tiny needle to thread. Took us two years, really three, developing the script from nothing. And I think Lewis was an incredibly smart move because here's the unbelievable triumph of the movie is I think its closest comp, and I say this in the best way because I fucking love the movie, is Days of Thunder. First of all, I write him, what'd you think? And he goes, it's titties. Oh, I said fucking titties. So titties, I guess we all like titties. If Jack's saying it, that's good. But then he says,

It wasn't a but, but Kristen loved it. I said more importantly. Oh, more importantly. Okay. It's like, you know, after a screening, you can't quite get it and you go, man, the music was awesome. Yeah. You got to say something, you know, when you're in one of those screens and you're literally going like, I got to pick something I can say believably. Oh no. Boy, that shot with the crane was incredible. That must've been really hard. How many feet was that crane? A hundred? Diversion, diversion, diversion. Yeah.

No, fucking titties is my ultimate compliment. All right, great. Because titties are the best thing in the world. They kind of are. Yeah, not been to, they kind of are. They've been around for 300,000 years. I think men and women would agree. I agree. Yeah. But the genius of having Lewis is, it's really hard to make a movie about F1 that could exist actually within the world of F1. I think that's a really tall order. Dude, this is unprecedented. Yes, the fact that they're involved is crazy. That's a coup. We're infused into the racing season. I don't know what other sport you could really do that with.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

This is Nick. And this is Jack. We're best friends, ex-finance guys, and resident 90s experts. And every week on our podcast, The Best Idea Yet, we're bringing you the untold stories behind your favorite products. For instance, can you guess which billion-dollar fashion company went viral thanks to a rhinestone-covered tracksuit? Or which cartoon turned four turtles into a global toy empire by accident? It started as a joke. Last one, which cold beverage was so hated by Starbucks

they actually ended up acquiring it. Spoiler, the Frappuccino. Howard Schultz apparently thought cold coffee was super lame, and then he bought it. From Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to Juicy Couture to the Orange Mocha Frappuccino. Join us every week to learn how your favorite things got made. Follow The Best Idea Yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. And if this podcast lasts longer than 45 minutes, call your doctor. Ha ha ha ha!

Today is the worst day of Abby's life. The 17-year-old cradles her newborn son in her arms. They all saw how much I loved him. They didn't have to take him from me. Between 1945 and the early 1970s, families shipped their pregnant teenage daughters to maternity homes.

and force them to secretly place their babies for adoption. In hidden corners across America, it's still happening. My parents had me locked up in the godparent home against my will. They worked with them to manipulate me and to steal my son away from me. The godparent home is the brainchild of controversial preacher Jerry Falwell.

the father of the modern evangelical right and the founder of Liberty University, where powerful men emboldened by their faith determine who gets to be a parent and who must give their child away. Follow Liberty Lost on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪♪

I think having Lewis there is all of the mechanisms and devices that were driving the plot could really happen.

And they're so intricate and they are true to Formula One. We all know the reality of it. As you say, it's by a tenth of a second. If you're not on the right team, that's that. There's so many things that are antithetical to a great movie. You can't have a magic device in this. It has to all be real. There's so many clever things your character does that are totally believable, that are so fun. And they're very Days of Thundery. We're a last place team.

So the idea of you got to play with what you got. So how do you win with what you got? Which is a money ball. There's good teams, there's bad teams, and there's 50 feet of crap. Then there's us. Yeah. Well, the gap in real life is you have Mercedes and Red Bull spending $500 million a year. And then you have...

Name the team, Haas, doing it on $100 million. That's really significant. So how on earth are we going to build any stakes where anything can really happen in reality and it all really works? When I'm saying Days of Thunder, the reason that I think that's a compliment is

that took something that not everyone was into and it made it so widely available. Yeah, okay, fair enough. Everyone loved Days of Thunder. You did not have to be into Cars. Kristen came with me because she had to. I'm like, come on, we're going to go see this movie. And it ended and she's like, fuck, that's one of the best fucking action movies I've ever seen. That's incredible. I think it's fun as shit. Yeah. Did you...

I wasn't able to go because I had work. But you did get an invite. She got an invite. I did get an invite. He didn't cut you out. No. No, no. I get myself in places. It almost made me question who Monica was because she was going to ride with us. And she goes, I'm not coming. And I was like, what has happened? Look, I'm not coming.

I have an operation to run here and I had to do it. You had to edit. And Dax made a good point. Sometimes it's good for me not to have seen the movie in case things get very esoteric. I also edit the show. So if I'm like, no one's going to understand any of this. I wondered if this was going to be an hour and a half just talking about wheels. No, no, no, no. It was the danger of us sitting down here. I know. That's why I'm here. You did really well to hold it off, by the way. Thank you. I have a lot of practice.

Anytime someone arrives in a cool car, she's like, we're fucked. He can read my face where I'm like, you ready? Ready to move on from this part? Really specific look that says you're in the weeds on this and no one gives a fuck but you and the guest. But the driving is a huge part of this. I can't imagine you want to do this movie unless you're going to drive. I'm so grateful the others didn't work out. They put us in the fucking cars. During the race? Yeah.

During the race weekend. Okay. That was my first shot, though, was the race weekend. I mean, it was the whole cruise first shot. So it's race weekend, you're driving. It's race weekend, and the first thing we're going to do is put us out on, it was quality day. It is such a military precision design machine that whole day to this second. We're going to get 15 minutes to go out in front of the crowd of however many hundred thousand people are at Silverstone. Wow.

Silverstone's Wimbledon, to put it in perspective. Yeah. It's a cathedral. This is the UK track. F1's British. That's their track. Yeah, it's the beginning of the official F1 in the 50s. We started on this track. It's hallowed. Yeah. And they strapped me in the car a half hour early. I'm sweating my balls off. It's really hot. And they screw in the horse collar. You have a Hans on and everything? Hans helmet. It's really sensory deprivation at that point because you have earphones and you got the fire retardant gear underneath. Then you got your suit and you got the helmet and you're sitting like you were in a bathtub. It's too short to stretch out.

And they screw in the horse collar. And you can only turn your head about this far with the horns on. And they put us in a half hour early because we couldn't miss our window. Wow. We had to prove ourselves. Like if this weekend went bad, if it went tits up, this movie isn't happening. How come tits up? That sits you in a bad way. You end up on your back. On your back. Okay, let's say if we cock it up. Yeah, I like that better. Let's make it better. If it goes pear-shaped, let's say over there.

So we go out, and I had practice. It's a whole other thing to have all these fans there. I'm not going to be hitting the speeds that those guys are hitting. You see them go around cops flat out. Dude, it is so breathtaking. I stood at the base of Eau Rouge. This is a story track in Belgium. Okay. Spa. For me, it was the greatest track we got to drive. But I stood at the base with my back at the bottom, and they go up this blind ass up. Oh, man.

Lewis talks about the G's are first it compacts your spine into the ground then you get up to the top it's blind you lift up he said it's the only track where you have down and upward G's anyway it's amazing but you stand right next to the wall like this the cars are right here they go they're flat out

It takes the air out of your lungs. It is so staggering. Wow. Yeah, it is. It warps space and time. Yeah, if we could Chris Nolan that moment. Yeah. So it's race weekend. I had practice in my mind driving the track. This is stressful. I know. I don't want to spin out because if we spin out, we go off the track and I'd taken a few misadventures. So I don't want to lose the car and it's the fans. So I'd practice in my mind, people in the stands.

and just hitting my breaking points. Practice, practice, practice, practice. And so when we got there, I just told myself at the last minute, just have fun. And it was such a joy. Was it? Yeah, but I'm going to break 10 yards earlier just to make sure I'm not going to get on it hard coming out because, again, this is our first attempt. And then the next day, we're shooting on the grid.

national anthem. We're off to the side. The main feed cuts us out. You just see the drivers. It's me, Damson, Max, and Checo, and then Claire. And I'm almost embarrassed because I have such reverence for these guys, this sport. And here's this jackass actor standing at the end like he knows what he's doing. So I just had to swallow that. I'm like, we got to do it. And there's this real energy because we have

10 minutes to get back to our cars and then have a little scene there with Javier Bardem and Tobias. And then we got to get in the car. So we do that two takes, we get off the grid and they're lining up for the start of the race for the warmup lap. And then our cars, one's going to go, it's already choreographed where he's going to peel off. And we had two great drivers with us. We couldn't have done it without them.

Luciano Baccetta. He was F2 champion. And then Craig Dolby. They're in the cars. We're not doing this part. And one of our cars does not start. The one that's supposed to take off. But they had already had plans for that. If it didn't, guys came running out, push it off the track, and everything went. Oh, wow. And so then we were in and running. But then we went on strike the next day. I was going to say, you have this triumphant, fuck, this movie's going to work. We got it. We're in. And then we went on strike on the Monday. Fuck. It was such a...

Let down. I was just bumping into walls. It was such a high. And you had to do a unique thing on this, which is the movie has to be insured. If something goes wrong, there's so much money on the line that someone's got to insure that. And they've never insured a movie and let the actors drive 180 miles an hour. No, this was Steve McQueen's problem. Filming Le Mans the last week, he was supposed to drive in the race and insurance stepped in at the last set. Uh-uh.

We lose you, there's no movie. Right. Yeah. Our movie was predicated on us being on the track and driving. Did you personally have to explain to them, like, look, these cars don't work till 180? This is a really good point. This happened...

Because we're hitting speeds. We're running with 100 kilograms of extra weight because we got camera gear. We got a block camera here. I got a camera here where I can't see brake points, turning points. Oh, my God. Or it's on here and one over here. Sometimes they'd be a big camera up here, which would diffuse all your downforce on the back, the rear, so you'd be sliding out. And we don't have power steering because we're on an F2 that's been chopped and stretched and arrowed. We're in Abu Dhabi, and we've been getting away with a lot. And insurance got hip to it. And they came in, they said...

Speed limit, 140. And it actually, in these cars, it becomes more dangerous. You don't have heat in the tires. You don't have heat in the brakes. And they actually become undrivable and unstoppable. You're not creating the downforce so you can't go through the turns. This thing would go off and I would just ignore it and we would go. And the guys, especially Looch and Craig, put together a case for the insurance to show them that.

This is actually more dangerous. It is actually safer to go at 180 and brakes and get the heat in as we need than keep us down at 140. So it took three or four weeks of negotiations, and we got there. I watch F1, and I am deeply humbled by it. I know that you have to believe this car is creating so much downforce that, yes, you can turn right at Silverstone in seventh gear going 190 miles an hour, and that's a leap of faith. It's shocking. Yeah, so what was your...

- The first time I got in, I just could not believe you could take corners at these speeds and the car would stick.

Every impulse is to get off the gas. But you do that, you destabilize, you'll go wide. Then you'll go off the track. So you actually need to stay on it. They say if you're not on the gas or you're not on the brake, you're not driving the car and you're upsetting the car. I just kept saying, trust the car, trust the car. I had this mantra going in my head. This is week one. And then the braking capabilities are shocking. Now what they did kind of defies physics.

Yeah, they call it an upside down airplane, don't they? Yeah, yeah. When you're driving it, you can't be in character, right? Because you have to be so focused on... We do the scenes, but we're also in a helmet like this. So if you fuck up the lines... Yeah, so how are you

you doing that? And we're getting to drive and we can actually use our side view mirrors. So that leads to the authenticity of it all. But you asked about downforce. Yes. I don't know how to explain it. It's the greatest feeling. You want to go roller coaster, but no, that's not it because you feel the fulcrum under you and a roller coaster on corners. I was in an aerobatic plane once and a guy took me for a ride. That'd be the closest thing I think. It is a high. I just can't wait to

Do it again. Yeah, what's so great is these cameras are fucking mounted on the car in such a way and Joe can control them. And we're seeing you and you're almost blueprinted to think, oh, yeah, he's on the green screen and we're watching him. And then it's just a fluid fucking pan. And oh, no, we're going 180 and there's the other cars. It's so intense and novel. It's really a technological kind of accomplishment. Yeah, I think so, too.

It's really visceral. Yeah, it's interesting to hear that it was tech first almost. That was what started this whole thing. Tell me about you go out to a track. I think you're at a Porsche training center and there's a GT3 and you get to go out for a bit and Lewis is there and then he takes you for a ride. This is after the controversial 21 finish. This is the only time I felt some stress between you and I. Yeah.

Because I love Max, who's undeniably so damn good. Especially this year in a shit car. Oh my God. He's incredible. But yeah, I've been in a few arguments over that. Yeah. So this is the first time he's been on a track since that controversial end where he loses the title. I just feel like an idiot. He's getting in the car with me. So I'm not going to even try to push. I know lines from being on the bike and on the track and understand trail braking and when to get back on the fuel, the throttle and all that. And that felt good. But I was just...

Oh, I was feeling such an idiot. Yeah. But then I got in with him and it's this bit on the track where it's just a straight way. And then it's got this, what do they call it? The carousel. And it's just one of these banked things and it's walled. And the guy says, take it easy going out, giving Lewis instructions. There's a bump. It can really unsettle you. Oh God. He just takes off. We hit the bumper here. We're going, going. We hit this corkscrew.

He comes sliding up around, and the back end kicks out. Now we're in the gravel, and it inches from a wall, and he comes out, and he's just laughing his ass off. He loves it. These guys have such control of this car. They're at the very max, and they have control. You know, he came in, we're getting close to the final cut, and he is so detailed. He would come in and go, no, no, no, that's the wrong gear. You're turned 11. You need to be in fifth by sound. Yes. Wow.

Because we're in an F2 car, so we got to redo the sound for it to sound like an F1 car. He would go down the straight. There's this reverb that comes off the left wall. You need to add that in. What knowledge. Have you ever seen these videos where they just put headphones on the drivers and they play the audio from the car?

And these guys, within about 30 seconds, will go, Spa. Have you seen them do that? No. There's many videos of them doing this. They can tell just from the audio. Oh, it was third gear, then fourth, then third real quick. They'll name the track. Did you get to do all the tracks? No. We drove Spa. We drove Koda.

We drove Vegas. That was weird and sketchy and cold and slippery. Just sketchy. And we got no rehearsal on it. And we just had to go out and we had our one 15-minute window. 10, I think even. Sketchy. Yeah. Slippery, right? And not only that...

There are points in it where you're breaking on a curve. It's just odd. Technical. I went. Wait, wait, wait. I want to brag some more. Yeah, please, please, please. Abu Dhabi. Oh, yes, because this is where the GQ guy was at. Silverstone. What about Abu Dhabi? Because it's night. Amazing. Goes from day, dusk, night.

Oh, I'm so fucking jealous. The fact that for your job, you had to go drive all these tracks. You should be. You should hate me. No, this one I will rub in. I can see how lit up you are about this. This is so fun. Both of you. I'm hard as a rock for the listener. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Slight chub over here. We have so many actors in here and they're artsy for the most part. That's why they got into it. Do you sometimes feel like an outsider?

Amongst all these artsy actors? Because you're their peers, but you're also this guy. Am I not artsy? You are artsy. Right after I went right into a man and a dog survival story out in the wilderness of New Zealand. Okay. So...

I'm trying to mix it up. You're doing both. But this part of the conversation is the happiest you've been in the whole conversation. Let's be real about that. No doubt. And we could go on for another few hours. We'll wrap this thing up and we'll still be at it. I know you will. I want to add something. There's so many rad things about the movie. The fact that all the real teams are there. Is that insane? You're in shots with Charles Leclerc. We could not do it without them. And we had to go into the driver's meeting and make our case. And of course, they're going to be suspect of us. What are we going to do? How Hollywood is it going to be?

who are you going to make the bad guys Ferrari or Red Bull like because you have Lewis you're going to make us you know didn't know what this thing was going to be and little by little we made our pitch I think they understood our respect and told him we're going to be here in the race weekends wherever you're in the way tell us to fuck off no problem fucking off we know how to do that I'm quite good at fucking off

At first, certainly, weekend, I felt like a tourist who had no right to be there. By the end of it, we'd been so integrated into the old ecosystem of it all, just having laughs with the guys. And we could not have done it without their participation, without the teams. Toto's in it. Fred's in it. Yes. All the team bosses are in it. I mean, this production value. There were $30 million cars and their entire teams.

for the whole pit lane and they gave us an hour. They pulled out their cars. They all came in, worked on it. I mean, it was unbelievable. The whole F1, Stefano and his team. I think once we proved ourselves, they were super accommodating. I've talked to some of these dudes. They're pumped. They like it.

And they're all in it. There's only a single completely unbelievable part of the whole movie. Go. And it's when Toto offers the kid a ride on Mercedes. And he says, no, thanks. I'm like, bullshit. Everyone wants to drive a Mercedes. Had to get Toto in. We love Toto. We had so much fun. I've never encouraged you to watch anything that I've done. But I text you like, you got to watch Toto on the bike. He's so playful. He's so playful. Yeah. He's really charming. I didn't watch it, by the way.

Yeah, I know. I know. I'll get there. You're smart. You know I'm an approval junkie, so you withhold enough to keep me on the hook. He has to get through eight viewings of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood first. The only thing we've done a bad job at is the premise of the movie, which is fantastic. We meet you and you are driving in an endurance race. You're one of the drivers, 24 hours of Daytona. In a Porsche GT3. And you come out. You've gotten the lead before. Then the other drivers lose the lead. You come up.

You get him back in the lead. You get out of the car and you're like, don't fucking lose this lead. This guy's like a fucking has-been, but he's a genius. He's still incredible. Oh, very good. Well, 100. So you're obviously an insanely good driver, but you're kind of a fucking renegade and a vagabond. And then you get approached by Javier Bardem. Yeah. The great.

Javier Bardem. Oh, my God. Can that man wear a suit? Dear Lord. He'll be my number two. Yeah. Okay. That's a good pick. Yeah. He's so good and such a beautiful guy. He, Penelope, his whole family, they're just beautiful people. When you watch a movie, one scene makes the cut or some kind of amalgamation of one scene makes the cut. But this guy, take after take, just doing different things. And any one of them you could throw up there. And it was so fun to watch. That's the other side of being behind the making. These Spaniards, too, they have like an...

Art of living. Were you attracted to his whole thing? Europeans, certainly more than Americans, they carve out more time for enjoyment of life than we do. Yeah, they know how to get in the fucking zhuzh. Yeah. Okay, so he approaches you. He is the owner of this terrible team at F1, and he's in this situation where he has to win a single race or he's going to lose control of the team. And he's got this incredible rookie driver. Damson Andrus is a rookie, young phenom, but he's just got to get reeled in a bit.

This is great. This is Bull Durham. Bull Durham is probably the closest connection where two guys have to work together who are at odds through the whole movie. And that's the fun we have. Yeah, it's a great, great relationship. He's a gem, man. Snowfall, that's where he's from? Yeah. He's cocky? Yeah. Yeah. I like cocky. Yeah. Not only that, he enjoys this whole parade in a way I never knew how. I admire that about him. But on the court, he's in on the joke. He doesn't mind being the brunt or he'll give it back.

He's really well-rounded. Well, it's spectacular. You guys did it. You made the most realistic racing movie that's ever been made. You're fucking radical. Okay, I'm going to end on this. You said, no, I met you before the meeting, and you did. And I'm going to tell you when. You wouldn't remember, but I don't think you know the punchline of the story, and I think you'll get a kick out of it. Okay.

We're at the Academy Awards, Kristen and I. I've never been. And I go to take a squirt and she knows you're my number one. You're like three rows ahead of us. We're coming back to the seat. And as I'm getting close to her, she's mouthing something to me.

And I'm like, wow. And I hear, he's talking to you. And I go, what? Brad Pitt is talking to you. And I'm like, what? Brad Pitt's talking to me. And I fucking turn around and you're standing up and you go, we loved your movie. Right. And you're talking, I guess, about Hit and Run, but I lose my shit. I don't really remember that I've directed a movie at that point. I'm just like, oh.

Oh, thank you. And you're like, yeah, we loved it. It was so nice. You know, if you see people up on screen, you still recognize your people. And I'm doing 100% of the driving in that movie. And you know, as someone who does these things, like I'm in shots, you can't be in unless you're sideways. There's also just a down home, more country vibe that you just recognize your people. In Ireland, New Zealand, on screen. So you're standing up at the Academy Awards shouting to me, we loved your movie.

So then I sit down and this is the punchline you don't know about. The second after you said that, the very next thing that happened was they started the in memoriam portion of the Academy Awards. And I'm sitting down and I'm like this. I'm so happy that Kristen goes,

Honey, stop fucking smiling. This is the in-memoriam part. And I couldn't not. Talk about things I also want the outtakes of. If there's any camera on me during that in-memoriam. You almost got them canceled. I would have been escorted out of the business. I've never been happier watching this group of dead people be celebrated. So that was the punchline that you missed from that exchange. That's a highlight of your life. I love that shit. I love big fails. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm so grateful that you did this. Thank you, man. I really appreciate it. I so appreciate what you guys do. And this is the one I got to. I didn't have a choice, did I? You did not. No. I mean, we've been talking about wheels. I mean, I think it enters every conversation we ever have. That's awesome. Something about wheels. It's inexhaustible. F1 is out June 27th. Don't listen to me because I wouldn't trust me. I love everything with engines that you put gas in. But listen to Kristen. Kristen fucking loved it.

And it's fucking titties. It's fucking titties. Put it on the poster. You can quote me. It can be on the poster. It's fucking titties. Dax Shepard. All right, brother. See you soon. All right. Thank you both. Love you. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got to let him have the facts. We had a fun run in this weekend.

Yeah, we did. Delta and Aaron and I went over to Mustard Seed. Cafe. That's a cafe nearby. Which I've recently become all renewed obsessed with. Yep. Because they got a dish for me in there that is, it couldn't be more perfect. Describe. Broccoli. Egg whites. I add capers. Oh.

Oh. So broccoli, egg whites with capers. Scramble? Yeah. Okay. Turkey patty. On the side? This is all one dish, you know, one plate. Right. But is the egg on top of the patty separate? Everything's separated on one plate. And I get this remoulade sauce, which I don't know if I'm saying that correctly, but

I have a whole history with this, which is I thought they made just a special sauce at that place that was their signature proprietary sauce. And I was obsessed with it. And then I was there recently and she said, oh, we just ran the like somehow she said, like the bottle just ran out. And I was like, oh, they're buying it. So then I went home and I searched. That's a popular Cajun sauce. Do you know about remoulade? Remoulade. Yeah, they have one at Houston's. Oh, it's got horseradish in it. Some kind of.

Stuff that I think is fishy, but I don't focus on that. Sure, probably anchovy. I think tartar sauce. Yeah, there's just maybe some cocktail-y type sauce vibes. Okay.

Does cocktail sauce have fish in it or just you combine it with fish so often that I've associated it with fish? You combine it, but it does have horseradish often. But no fish in it? It might have anchovy. A lot of things that are tasty have anchovy. You wouldn't know it, though. Earmark that. Ewan McGregor on his motorcycle show, he eats so much fish paste. And I'm just like, he's so much more manly than me. I can't eat fish paste.

I want you to try it. Nothing sounds worse to me than fish paste. I already don't like fish in its original form. I know, but that's what you think. Remember, we talked about this on a previous episode where you've been to a restaurant and you were like, I don't like any of these things. And then you like it. Yeah, yeah. French laundry. If the French laundry had a fish paste, I would try it. But they're getting it at a gas station in a tube and they're gobbling it up.

Anyways, remoulade sauce ordered. It was great. I'm there getting that wonderful breakfast. I think it's called the lean plate there. And I see you and your tall gentleman friend. Jess. Stroll by. You pass through frame. Yeah. I'm facing the window. Okay. You were inside? Yeah, eating. And I said, Delty Monty just walked by.

And so she ran out, flagged you down. She ran out. It was such a fun pop out. By then I was past, I was at Maru. I was tempted to also run out, but then I had this thing where it's like, it was, we had already eaten. I really felt like it was going to look like we were running out on the check. Dine and dash. Dine and dash. There's another couple of good terms for it. But of course they wouldn't have thought that because I'm a regular customer there and they know I'm a nice person. But anyways, that stopped me. But then-

You guys were in route to the protests. Yeah, we went to the rally in Los Feliz on Saturday. No Kings rally. No Kings, but definitely short Kings. We'll get to that. No, not if they're trying to be monarchs. No, just I like all the boys that have been getting short King love. So you guys are still good. Not Napoleon.

He took it too far. Yeah. Yeah. He wasn't just getting some dates. No. He wanted to take over the world. So then I said, where did they say they were at? Let's go look. And then in route to there, we saw you guys. We shouted at you. You were probably already on edge because you were going to a protest. And you thought the cops were there. Yeah. We had a very fun run in. Yeah. And you guys looked so excited. Yeah.

And yeah, we were excited. It all happened very fast. Okay. Tell me. I told, I think also on the last fact check, maybe, or a couple of fact checks ago, I was saying that I've been pretty overwhelmed by social media. Yeah. So I was, I kind of wasn't paying much attention to it. Um, and so I didn't,

I didn't know there was like a day where the country was protesting Trump's birthday. Yeah, you would only find out on social media, right? I would. I mean, I don't, I also didn't. You don't watch the news. Exactly. Yeah. So Jess texted me in the morning or he texted me and he said, there's a No Kings rally happening in Los Feliz right now. And I was like, we should go. And I was already on my walk.

Oh, okay, great. So it worked out. And he was like, okay, let me just like finish a couple things. And then next thing he knew, two minutes later, I was at his door. Knock, knock, knock. And he said, oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, I guess we're where we are going. Yes. And so he put on his sunscreen and his tall socks. Uh-huh. Yeah. And off we went.

And we walked there and we ran into you and it was a lovely run in. And it was so, it was so, so fun. Can you pause for one second? Right. Yeah.

So it's almost as if I planned that. Planned the whole rally? No, just now you had to step out because there was a dog barking a lot. Oh, yes. It is almost as if I planned that because I want to talk about something about dogs. Oh, okay. But first let's finish up the rally. I thought maybe you like farted while I was gone or something. No. No.

It feels like a great place to meet a lover. I mean, sure. Like-minded people. I could see that. But that really wasn't on our mind. And it had a good party vibe. Like I drove through it. It was. Yeah. It felt very much like a parade kind of a vibe. It did. And that was one thing.

about it that I will comment on. It was very heartwarming. Yeah, yeah. That's what it felt like. As we were driving through, there's also so much to look at. There's so many signs. Everyone's got to put a spin on their thing. I know. There's some fun ones. There was really fun ones. There was really... There were some we disagreed with. Okay. What did you disagree with? Well, one of them, it was this man had done a very...

a beautiful oil painting of Trump. And it said, this man has never had a friend. And I said, well, that's, that's, he's assuming quite a bit. He seems to know a lot about that. And then we were, then we were making up signs, the three of us of stuff like you couldn't really know, like he stubbed his toe in second grade on the way to the pool. Well, that was your, your claim that you knew. Yeah. Um,

And then there was really clever. There were really, really funny ones. A lot of plays on the word ice, which I found very, very fun. I did really like the one that said, you were worried about the cost of eggs, but what about the cost of ice? Yeah, there were some great ones. A lot of Dictator, but D-I-C-K.

Oh, sure. That's a fun one. That's fun, yeah. Anyway, it was... Everyone got playful. Everyone got really playful and it was a happy environment. Yeah. It was kind of emotional. Like there were some...

You know, there was this like young boy with this like Mexican flag and it was really sweet. It was very it's like, yeah, that's what we're doing this for. And anyway, it was heartwarming. And I'm really, really glad that we went. Yeah. And what I also like about it is it's not.

It's not for the purpose, like it's to show up and say, we don't like what's going on. It's not active in that, like it's not a vote, you know, that's what really is going to make a difference. Right. But it's solidarity and it's like, look, you're not alone. Yeah. People are here to support you.

Whatever. So anyway, it was lovely. We did that. And then we went to the Beverly Hills Hotel and had a martini. Oh, wonderful. Yeah. Very classy of you. Uh-huh. Okay. Now, pivoting. Yes. Dogs. You know, I've taken a break from speaking ill of dogs. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Because people don't like it. No, they hate it. And I know, I get it. Like, I get that you love your dogs.

But I had a resurgence of annoyance for them this weekend. And it was a one-two punch, okay? I'm so sorry. I just thought of a very funny analogy. Oh, my God.

He's like, Chappelle just couldn't stay away from trans. It kept just pulling, even when he was saying it's not going to be about trans and then it is. And he knows like this isn't going to go well. Yes. And he just, he can't resist. Yeah. That's how I feel. So I almost texted you Saturday night because I need you to pass along a really important message for me. Okay. To Amy Poehler. Okay. Okay.

Babers. Babers, a.k.a. Babers. A.k.a. Babers. Amy has an awesome podcast, new podcast, newish, called Good Hang. And...

She had Dakota Johnson on her podcast. Who you're obsessed with, people should know. I am currently a bit obsessed with Dakota Johnson. I've been going down real rabbit holes. It started because obviously I do watch a lot of, not obviously, but I watch a lot of Vogue videos. You know, obviously was the right word. Yeah. I watch a lot of Vogue videos and there's a lot of like get...

ready for this red carpet or get ready for this, whatever. Yeah. So I'm served a lot of that content. So I was served Dakota Johnson getting ready for Cannes. Okay. And I love the dress she wore. It's a Gucci dress, pink fringe, sequined silk. Gorgeous. Okay. So I was obsessed with the dress. So I was like watching that. And then once that happened, it's all I'm getting. Auto load. Yes. And then I saw the,

A Vanity Fair. Is she Melanie Griffith? Yes. And Don Johnson's daughter. Yes. Okay. And she notoriously has kind of wild press tours. Oh, I didn't know this. Yes. She has some controversial press tours. Political opinions? No. Okay, so she was in Madam Web and it was like a whole thing because she was...

Pretty much shitting on it the whole time. What's Madam Web? It was some movie. It was a movie. Superhero. Superhero. Okay. And she did a bad job. Yeah. She didn't. Speaking favorably about the product. Correct. Okay. And it was a whole thing. Okay. And I will be. So she's a liability on a press show. I will be honest.

During the Madame Webb thing, I was like, I just think if you're in a movie, it's part of your job. You got paid to be in that movie. You gotta. It's too late. It's too late. Sometimes they turn out good. Sometimes they turn out bad. You kind of got to stand by it unless you were like abused or something. Sure. You gotta go down with the ship. Yeah. So anyway, so I had this idea about her based on Madame Webb and Callie loves Dakota Johnson. Okay, great. And Dakota is her kind of girl crush character.

Yeah. And I was always like, I don't really get it. And now I get it. Now I totally get it. Okay. And I...

I have been wanting to get her on this show because of my new obsession with her. Yeah. Also because I saw a Vanity Fair lie detector test she did and she doesn't know a lot. Like, that I found interesting. Like, she didn't... They slid a picture of Alex Earle and also Alex Cooper. Ding, ding, ding. Alex Cooper's episode came out today. Great episode. Great conversation. Anyway, um...

She didn't know who they were, but she was like, oh, for Alex Earl, she was like, oh, is it call her daddy? Okay. And they were like, no. And then they showed that picture and she was like, this is a different person. Like she didn't, she doesn't know a lot about pop culture. Okay, great. I find all this kind of interesting. Yes. And it feels authentic to you. Yeah. It does feel authentic to me. Okay, great.

Um, and any who, so I've been sort of obsessed with her and I've been, I've been trying to get her on. It can't happen. And all of a sudden I see her pop up on good hang. Oh, okay. So I have mixed feelings about this, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be honest. I was like, fuck. Yeah, sure. I wanted her. Yeah. But I love Amy. So of course, next best thing. Yeah. And I, I turn it on and, um,

Dakota has her dog with her, Tokyo. Very, very cute dog. Yeah. But this interview is happening. Oh, and I will say she, Dakota said she had never done a podcast. That was her first podcast ever. Okay. She doesn't, she's kind of afraid of them. She's never heard of a podcast until that moment. She's kind of afraid of them. Yeah. And she felt she'd be safe with Andy.

Anyway, the dog was really taking up a lot of the conversation for the first chunk. And I could feel talking about the dog or the dog was being rambunctious and they were having to corral. He or she mainly talking about.

About the dog, talking about the dog, but the dog was like drinking water out of the cup. And then they had to address that the dog was drinking water out of the cup. You know, it was just very dog centered. Yes, yes. And Amy said, you know, she has a no dogs at work policy. Oh, she does. That must be very controversial. And I have, I mean, I didn't think I could love her more, but my God, did I feel so bad.

and loved. I felt loved. Wow. Okay, great. And I want you to tell her that. I'll tell her that. Please pass along the message that I felt stressed on her behalf that the dog was, and it wasn't anyone's fault, especially not the dog's fault. Yeah, he's not supposed to be at a podcast. He's supposed to be in the woods. Correct. Yeah.

He was really cute, actually. Yeah, he won you over. Anyway, whatever. Tokyo was commandeering the conversation, and I could feel like...

If that was us, I would be a little like... You'd lose it. We need this dog to get out of here. Yeah, because you get... There's Tokyo. Oh, wonderful. Tokyo looks like a puppy. Like, if she also, if she brought a puppy... And actually, to be fair, Tokyo was very well behaved. Tokyo just fell asleep in her lap pretty quickly after that sipping of the water. Wow. Anywho, so I...

I just really respect Amy's policy. And then, God, I'm going to get in trouble for this. That's okay.

From my friend. So I feel bad. But I have to say it. Morally, you feel obligated. I do. I'm watching this on Sunday. I feel like Amy's a hero for handling Tokyo so well, but also stating her boundary, but not sticking by her boundary. Sure. Okay. It's mixed. Yeah. And then... She gets a C on that part. I go to Anna's house.

And Anna has a dog who we love. We love Mona. Mona, we love Mona. I'm just saying this morning, I wish Mona was my dog. Mona is a great dog. And Jess and I went over there to, she got a new apartment. We were going to see her new apartment and we were going to go on a walk. And as we were getting ready to go, I was like,

Is Mona coming? Because I could sense that Mona was going to come with us. Okay. And last time we went out, she also came. And I'm very hyper aware when we're out at a restaurant and we have Mona. Also, Mona's huge. Mona's gigantic. Yeah. Yeah. She's a Mona. And she's empty.

Yeah, she's like a puppy. She thinks she's a puppy. Yeah, but she's a big girl, like a horse. Look, we are in L.A. A lot of people are like totally fine standard. People are fine with it. But I'm like, Mona is in that person's lap and they're trying to eat and they're strangers. So I already had this last week. And then here we are again. With the dark. Well, I think it is Mona, by the way. I think the same offender. It is. Yeah, that was barking. It is.

Yeah, because Anna brings Mona to work. Yeah, I know. So then we're- But I love Mona. I love Mona. I do too. Because Anna was really nervous that to bring Mona to work because of me-

And it took me telling her like a thousand times, like, I love Mona. I don't mind seeing her in the backyard. I know, you've been very kind. I keep thinking like, what if someone has an allergy? And then at one point Mona got on the seat. Even if you're not allergic, you might not want to step over a dog. You might not want to sit on dog hair. And she did get up on the furniture and then someone did come over and say like, we can't have her on the furniture. And I, you know...

As someone who is a rule follower in general, and I think maybe that's at play. You don't want attention. I don't want attention. That's really what it all is. It's all about attention. I don't want attention for something that I fundamentally feel like we're getting in people's way. We're inconveniencing people. Yeah, I really don't like inconveniencing people. It feels selfish. Well, it's very tricky for the dog owner because...

A huge percentage of the city loves it. I know. They genuinely love it. Kristen's happier when she runs into a dog at a restaurant or she's got to step over one. Like it improves her day. But she doesn't bring her dogs out. Nope. Ours are assholes, so they would bite people. But we used to bring Lola around. Lola was cool to take to a restaurant and stuff.

If we were going to sit outside at like Ding, Ding, Ding, mustard seed, she ate there a lot. For the dog owner, they're running into tons of people that are so excited to meet their dog. Yeah. And then the people who don't enjoy it are not saying anything, nor should they. Why? See, this is what's unfair. Well, I'll tell you why. Because it's small. You have the choice. And overall, you should go...

It's Thanksgiving, this group of people, a lot of joy. I don't like it. I can live with it. I think it's definitely the aspirational version is to just let it be without it bothering you. I think Buddhism, I can't get you, but maybe Buddhism. It feels unfair to me. So I recognize they might not be fully aware of how much people, but I would urge the people, you have to acknowledge you're bringing an animal somewhere. Yeah.

Like, the restaurants and our transportation, they were designed for humans. You throw a... There's not, like, parking for dogs at restaurants under the table. Exactly. Yeah. Or on podcasts and stuff. Or at work, if you're Amy. Although, we got to be honest, we loved having Nico. I know, but Nico...

That's a different thing. Like a service dog. No, Rob, no. This is also, it's like everyone's just calling them service dogs. That's crazy.

crazy you know what my service need is no barking no dogs and barking and funny listen yes at the aforementioned thing these two so one person with a freaking boxer another with a pit bull and they're they're both insisting the dogs are nice they're not nice they get into a fight they're all barking and causing a scene and making people sort of trip and like i don't i don't i'm fine

With it, I guess. I mean, I'm not, but I am. I have to be in this world. But I want some instead of me being the enemy, I'd love some acknowledgement that like people who don't like dogs are constantly just dealing with dogs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All the time. In L.A., for sure. And they don't get to say anything or they're bad. I don't know what it's like other places. I feel like L.A. would trend towards the liberal. Definitely. Maybe crazy is to be like Portland, like where you can, I imagine. Yeah, they're like up on the counter. Yeah, yeah, like they get seated and everyone's got their husky. Well, you said that you went to a pet-ster-ant. Pet-ster-ant.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I picked up food and delivered to a dog recently. Yeah. For my other job. Oh, this is outrageous. Do you want to hear about Father's Day? Yeah. You know, the tradition at this house is on Mother's Day, moms get to have a spa day and the dads take the kids away. So you're pretty much in our house, I think in our pod.

If it's your father's day or your mother's day, you get an indulgent day. Yes. Right? Yep. So mine was, we had just had a guest on. It was one of my funniest favorite moments we've had. Back to me loving being embarrassed.

It's a male guest and myself. We come upon the topic of the Godfather. And then we start, the male guests and I start talking about Godfather. And now we're starting to explain to you some things about Godfather. And it hit me all at once. I was like, oh my God, we're Ken from Barbie. Yeah. Oh my God, was that funny. You guys were Ken. We already have been made fun of about it. I know. And we still did it. You couldn't stop yourself. Oh my God.

I think that's so funny and embarrassing. Yeah, it was very funny. So then I decided, oh, I am in the mood to watch Godfather. I haven't in 15 or 20 years. Yeah, we made a group plan to watch it.

with this guest who doesn't live in this city so it's going to take some real planning yes um and but you couldn't wait so you had to watch it on father's well and i would watch it again next week for sure if everyone wants to get together uh but yes i had um two other fathers over and we i ordered a ton of italian food oh nice really good italian food and uh watch godfather and it was a blast both

No, no. That was the goal. Can't be done. It's like three hours long. And we were pausing to go make plates and we were making a lot of jokes. It was very fun. Good. But then it was kind of early on the earlier side. It's five. I still have a bunch of leverage. They're basically like, what do you want to do, dad? And I said, well, if...

If everyone's up for it, I would want everyone to be up for it. I would love to watch a movie together as a family. Let's grab something from the kids list. I keep a list in my phone. Kids movies, romancing the stone. These movies that I know they'll like. Yeah. Oh, Pirates of the Caribbean. That was recently. And so I said to the family, so yeah, something off the kids list. So I was thinking either Rocky or Smokey and the Bandit. And Crispin goes, yeah.

When did Rocky get on the kids movie list? And I was like, oh, I added it. Sure. Because we were watching Friday Night Lights and I was like, oh, yeah, these sports stories are really simple. You know what the goal is and you know the stakes. Yeah. And Rocky was either one best picture. It was certainly nominated for best picture. It's like an incredible movie. We all watch Rocky. It is a great movie. It holds up. Yeah. Great.

Yeah, there's so much cool stuff about it. The fact that he, you know the whole story behind Rocky? Yeah, he paid for the movie. No, he had been, he was completely penniless. He wanted to play Rocky and he turned down a million dollars in 1974 for a screenplay. And do you know why I know that? Oh boy. Good Will Hunting. Oh. They reference that a lot. Oh, they do. Mm-hmm.

So you're watching this guy that really gambled it all. And it worked out. And it worked out like as big as could work out. He was the biggest star for 15 or 20 years. But anyways, I felt like I really, I was FaceTiming with my father-in-law. And when I told him what the day was, Godfather, and now we're watching Rocky, he just started laughing so hard. And I said, my powers are so strong today, aren't they? I've convinced everyone to.

Watch Rocky. Yeah. Good Father's Day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did the kids like it? They did. They loved it. Yeah. They really, really loved it. There's weird stuff. There's really compelling stuff you have to talk about as a family, which I loved.

Because have you ever seen it? I don't think so. He's not smart. This is one of the things I like about it. Like he wrote himself this role and it's so not vain. Like Rocky is a simple guy. He has to carry his combination to his locker that he's had for six years in his hat written on a piece of paper. Like he's very simple. Yeah. And Adrian works at a pet shop and she's like morbidly shy. Okay.

Okay. And Rocky knows her brother and he keeps trying to date her. He keeps going to the pet store and she's just too shy to deal with it. And he eventually goes on a date with her and then they have this date and then they're at his house and he's like, come inside.

And she's like, no, I don't want to come inside, Rocky. He's like, come on, come inside. Come inside. You're going to like it. And she says no like six times, right? Oh, boy. Okay, yeah. So you're watching this with your kids and you're like, wow, well, this wouldn't be a scene today. Let's just start there. Yep. And so she says no, she says no, she says no. And she says yes. Then she comes in and then she wants to leave and he doesn't want her to leave.

And at this point, we now pause to talk about this. And I said, so number one, a woman should never go into a place she doesn't want to go into. She should not have to. Number two, any guy who would not listen to a woman say no three times and keep pushing her to come in is off the table, is a no-no. Right. Three, she is morbidly shy. She's not going to get to this point ever if some...

super assertive man doesn't come in and invite her to cross her fear. And in her total life, that's also maybe what she needed for her life. Isn't that complex? What do we do with that reality? It's complex, but it is, it's an invisible line, but there is a line. And I think you, you,

gutturally know it. It's just interesting because I said, you know, the analogy I gave them is like, Jackie did not, Jackie was in love with our dog, Glenn. We needed to get rid of Glenn. She was in love with him and would not take him because she had such commitment anxiety. And I literally at one point had to shove him in her hands and I shut the door and locked it and said, you're taking him home for the night. I find this story complicated actually. And it's

It's the love of her life. She's thanked me a bunch of times for forcing her to take it. And I knew what would happen the second she got the dog home. That's the part. It's the part I knew that is complicated. Yeah. And because you hope you're a good judge. You know what I mean? You were in that case, right? Yeah. But there is no knowing about what a person does.

will or won't feel. So do you risk never helping the nine people that you're right about to prevent the one person you're wrong about? I actually think, yeah. Personally, I think if Jackie's going to let the commitment issue derail her life, it's not really on you to change it. It's not. But we're attracted innately to people that we think can get us someplace. Yeah.

That can benefit us. Sure. Like, you know, like a lot of betas are, they're super attracted to alphaness because that they, they,

desire someone who doesn't have decision anxiety. Yeah. But that's different from, from forcing you to make a decision. You might, you can be attracted to someone's self-assuredness and confidence in their ability to make decisions. And that is attractive if you aren't good at that. I don't think, I think, um, but that then, then it crossing over onto you is where, um,

That is different to me because I think if you're attracted to that, what ends up happening is you sort of take some of it on by osmosis. Like you like it. You're seeing it modeled and it looks cool. It looks good. You start, you know, you start trying those pieces on. Yeah. But the forcing is where things get muddy for me. Right. And then you're talking about the like the nuance between forcing and pushing. Yeah.

Yeah. There's like, there's a difference in my mind between forcing and pushing. Like people do, some people want to be pushed. Yeah. They want to be helped and pushed in a direction. Do they want to be forced? They don't have a decision? No, I don't think so. But I do think people seek out people they know will push them. Some people love coaches. Like I'm not this type of person. Right. But there are people that love being coached, love being pushed and yelled at and the whole nine. Right.

That's not me. Yeah. I think it, God, though, it's so dependent on the person, the scenario. It's dependent on the outcome because like for Adrian, she undoubtedly would, if you asked her, she would go, thank God he made me come inside and thank God he didn't let me leave. Because it worked out. Because, yeah, she would have never, ever come out of her.

her shell unless someone drug her out. And then she was so happy and loved Rocky so much. That's wonderfully complicated. Very complicated, yes. I love it. Like, what a fun thing to hear their opinions about. Yeah. Yeah. So, it delivered in a lot of ways. Great. Yeah, yeah. That's fun. Yeah. Well...

I'm glad you had a good Father's Day. Oh, thank you. Me too. Fathers are fun. Yeah, they can be. Talked to my dad on Father's Day. Doing good. Was he spoiling himself? No, he had exercised when I called him. He exercises every day. Oh, good. He's very disciplined. Yeah. Extremely disciplined. What's his chosen exercise? What do you think? Naps.

He doesn't nap. I've never seen him nap in my entire life. What do I think? Knowing me. Jogging. Walking. Walking. Yeah. He goes on a long walk. Plotter. Plotter. Outside and on the treadmill. Mm-hmm. Wow, I like dads. Yeah, me too. You want to do some facts? Sure. Let's do it. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

Thank you.

Wow. Wow. Brad Pitt facts. Who would have thunk that sentence could possibly come out of my mouth? I'm a little scared for us. Like we'll die. Yeah, just like. It's too good. Yeah. Life's too good. This is so suspiciously good. There's some real suspicious stuff because that day, the day we recorded Brad, we also recorded an episode before.

super suspicious that it happened to be on that day, the subject matter. And I'm not going to say what it is yet, but when that episode comes out. I would, but you're going to protect us. Okay, fine. It's on the simulation. It's on the sim, guys. What are the odds of the day that we have the sim, then BP walks in? Your dad's getting playful. I don't know if he's getting playful or if we are going to die and he's like, let's give them a lot of good stuff before they die. Let's go out big.

Let's throw Pitt their way. Let's throw a SimEx. I'm getting scared talking about this. I'm getting scared talking about it. What a dream. What a dream. I said it to you. I've said it a couple of times. I want to say it in public. I appreciated you so much in that interview. You did the perfect job. I was just really, really grateful for you.

the way you just handled the whole two-hour baknalia. Thank you. There were moments where you could feel that I...

probably value being on his good side enough that maybe there's like a next emotional question I would normally follow up with that I was incapable of at times. Yeah. And right as I was thinking like, oh, I should ask that. I can't, I'm afraid to ask that. Then you would come. It was, it was, it was every time I ever thought that you immediately kind of were there to do that. Oh, that's nice. And that was awesome.

You also were like, you knew it was a big day for me. I could see the generosity in your spirit. And then also you would click out of it and go like, no time to make the donuts. And you'd make the donuts and you'd hang back. And then beyond actually all that stuff that was for me selfishly, I was filled with such joy, sincerely.

That the little girl that was afraid to talk in front of Mike Schur was sitting across from Brad Pitt and letting it rip. Yeah. I just felt so proud of you and happy for you. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah, we've come a really long way. We really have. You were so confident. I just was really happy for how confident you were. Well, BTS. You had shit yourself three or four times. Yeah, I had already unloaded. No, I had a whole morning.

You know, where I had to talk to myself. Steady yourself. Yes, about expectations. And knowing it was him and knowing that there was a chance that I really wasn't going to

It's hard to... That I might not be able to say much. I could feel myself, when I would think about that, getting upset. Yeah. Like, I should be able to say stuff, and I am going to... I'm big enough. Yeah, and I'm going to do it. But also, I'm not. Like, I doubt there's going to be space, and how will I... You know, and it was starting to happen, and then I had to really, like, take a second and...

and say like, this is such a big deal for us, not just you, for us as a show. And it's kind of like the thing, it's kind of like before Matt Damon, when me and you were in a fight and you said, don't let this fight- Fuck up your big day. Get in the way of this moment. Yeah, yeah. And you need to be present for this moment. Yeah.

And I sort of circle back to that. Like, this is just a big day for us and it is a big marker of the show and it's something to be proud of regardless of what I singularly do. So just enjoy it and be excited. And also because I guess, you know,

making not having space was highly possible because this is your dream guest this is what you've sort of been looking forward to for seven and a half years yeah yeah and you guys also have a shorthand you know each other um

It would have made kind of. So anyway, I was then very, very grateful that it did not feel like that at all. It felt like there was plenty of space for me. It did not feel like you were like, if I spoke, you were like, yeah, we're off story. I have a whole arc plan. Yeah. Well, I was having my own ruminations in the morning as one would have. And I, yeah, my thing was like,

Uh, you got to prioritize the audience and not you. Cause recently I did prioritize me hanging with a guest and we left and I was like, I could have, I could have gotten a lot more out of that person. That would have been more rewarding for the audience. But I was definitely, uh, I have prioritized my own experience. Yeah.

I was like, so we can't do that today, Dax. Dax Shepard. Yeah, the whole laundry list. At that point, I'd watched enough interviews with him. I saw him and Adam Sandler talking for an hour and a half. And what I saw immediately is like, he is so fucking allergic to you saying he's good and stuff. Like, he just doesn't like it. Yep. I got to get through two hours with this guy and not fawn over him. Yeah. That's a deal breaker. Because I had a lot of deal breakers going in. Sure. Yeah.

Well, it went great. And I'll just credit and thank him. He showed up like so cash, feeling good. Relaxed. And he put us at ease nicely. He really did. He's such a nice guy.

He is. And it was great. And we all had fun. We had a ton of fun. That's all we can ask. Yeah. I wanted him to stay forever, but he had to carry on and promote this. We kept him way past the amount of time we were supposed to. Yeah, that was another thing I was like, I was juggling in my head. I'm like, 90 minutes. I don't know. I'm going to have to read him and see if he's cool going over. Yeah. Or did we blow by that 90? We didn't look back. We kept on going. Yeah.

Okay. The one thing that I, so before he came, we were getting kind of worked up into a lather. Yeah. Like really feeling. Well, this will remain a mystery. So I text him like 14 minutes before he was to arrive. Hey, this is the gate code. If you want to just pull right in. Yeah.

And then he wrote like, bueno. Yeah. And then he wrote, oh, is that today? And I wrote, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. But then I'm like, I don't know if that's ha, ha, ha. I know. We don't know. We don't know. Yeah. But suffice to say, we did have 10 minutes while we were waiting for him to get here where we were just sitting. Yeah.

waiting to do the thing we've been thinking about all day long. And for me, three weeks, maybe. Yeah. Our whole lives. Yes. Yes. But so then when he walked in, you, you went out and you got him and then you guys walked in and he,

I, you know, I get up to go introduce myself and this part's embarrassing. I was going to cut it, but I left it so people can see it if they want to. I like stuck my hand out to shake his hand and his hands were like full. Oh.

I missed that part. So he like had to like kind of put down his coffee and he had and he was like, oh, my hands are wet. And so I but I just had my hand out straight. You weren't moving it for the whole time. All this was happening. And I thought, put your hand. But then you have to put it back up. So just leave it. This is the stress. And then I yelled at you for not hugging him.

You did? I think that's in there. I didn't even hear that. No, that was with another heartthrob. That was with another heartthrob. And then you hugged him at the end. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But then you hugged Brad at the end, too. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so...

That was bad. That was the worst part, the handout. Rough start. Yep. But then it was fine. Yeah. Then he was just a regular old boy. What did you say, though? You said something, then you go, oh, this is off on the wrong foot. Yeah. You came hot. You came hot. What was it? No, I said, I stepped in it already. Yeah. Do you remember what it was about? Yes, I do. And actually, it leads into my first fact. Okay. So the first fact is you asked if he was wearing a waffle.

Oh, waffle shirt. He's wearing his brand God's true cashmere, which you're also wearing. And I actively did not wear, I have the shorts. They're so cute. Um, and I actively did not wear that, but, uh, that's like when I was with Gwyneth and like, I didn't wear goop on purpose. Um, it's that move. Yeah. Your famous move. It's like one of my moves. So he's wearing, I'm pretty sure. So I'm on the site right now.

And I think he's wearing the Cerulean Melange cashmere shirt. It is not a ruffle, a waffle. It's not a waffle. I think that's the one. It's either that one or the Azure cashmere shirt. Now, no one's going to like this. Both of those are sold out.

Yeah. Anyway, if you want to look like me, my shorts are the... I love the origin story of God's true cashmere. Emerald dot cashmere surf short is what I have, and it is so cute. What happened is he was telling the...

of God's true cashmere. And I said, oh, I thought like, I think the assumption is it's you. That you're the God. And he was like, what? He did not like that. No, I was like, well, I know he hates compliments if he gets told he's God. But it was, but it was, I thought it was sweet because his shock and horror. That he would do something like that. That anyone would think that was actually very endearing. I agree. So.

So it was worth it. And I did think that, and I just had to be honest. I appreciate your honesty. I did not think that. Well, you were right for once. He mentioned that maybe Robert Downey Jr. was wearing a zoot suit. And cause you had said weird science, but actually the term zoot suit is primarily associated with Robert Downey Sr.'s film, Greaser's Palace.

About zoot suit guys. I guess. Do you know about zoot suits? It says he didn't wear a zoot suit in Weird Science. Do you know what a zoot suit is? Yeah. Okay. Right.

And like LA gangsters wore zoot suits. Yeah, we learned about them, I don't know why, in college. The suits were first associated with African Americans and communities such as Harlem, Chicago, and Detroit in the 30s, but were made popular nationwide by jazz and jump blues musicians in the 40s. Okay. In the movie adaptation, the ghost orchid is the flower. The ghost orchid.

It says the film uses the idea of finding your flower, your soulmate or passion as a metaphor for life's journey. That's an incredible movie. I don't know when the last time you watched that is. I don't know if I've ever seen it. It's exceptional. But what's so great is in the same way I love Fall Guy, it's like acknowledging the meta reality that they're in a movie, making a movie, trying to figure out the story of the movie. It's just so satisfying. Yes. And he is reading...

this very famous writing book, how to, called Story, the most famous screenwriting book there is. It's like the Bible. Oh, is it like Save the Cat? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so he is struggling to write a script about this orchid hunter. And the movie is about him trying to figure out how to write this script. And he has a twin brother who's like a hack and he goes to a story book convention. Oh.

And he's like, oh, it's so easy to write. And he's like getting stuff sold. Oh. And it's like it's talking about all the rules in story as it's breaking the rules in story, which is really fun. That is great. Yeah. It's very, very meta in the most satisfying way. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Okay. The Harlem Globetrotters. The original Harlem Globetrotters founded in 1926. Oh, I guess he didn't meet the originals. Exactly. That's what I'm unfortunately. He needs some.

He needs to know. Although he mentioned Curly and Curly's...

In this mix. And he's from 1942, born in 1942. I think I mentioned Curly and I think the characters recycled. I think new basketball players came in, but these roles that the Harlem Globetrotters had, I think they might have recycled. What? No, his name is Curly Neal. Yeah. And when I was a kid, there was a Curly as well that was in the Harlem Globetrotters. I'm pretty sure. It said the first lineup included players like Walter Toots Wright,

Byron Fat Long, Willis Kid Oliver, Andy Washington, and Al Runt Pullens. There's nothing in there about the characters. Frederick Curly Neal. I think there was only one. Okay. It's weird I knew that one. Played for 22 seasons. Sweet Lou Dunbar. Well, I think I know Sweet Lou. I think he maybe mentioned Sweet Lou.

Mainly Curly and Sweet Lou and a bunch of others. They were kind of gone by the time you were on the scene. I've heard of them. Yeah, there would be ads all over when they came to your city. It'd be a big deal. Because they did like tricks and stuff, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they always played the same team. And it's like big time wrestling, but with basketball. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah.

That's it. That's everything. So Brad Pitt done. No Wiley. Not done yet. Not done yet. But hopefully. Nick Cage still out there. Yeah. We have. Leo. We still got some. We still got good old Tay. Yeah. She's always going to be on the hook. Jay-Z. That's right. Yeah. Okay. Thanks to all those people. Yeah. Thanks for keeping us going. All right. Love you. Love you. Bye. Bye.

Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.