#BecauseMiami: The Injustice Department
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You know, I don't get paid for this. This is kind of like my community service as if I was convicted of a white collar crime. What I do for a living is I make documentaries and I'm going to do a shameless plug right off the top here. I have not one, but two documentaries premiering basically at the same time.

First up is Men of War. It's our new raconteur pop doc. We're working with a wonderful company called Dear Jen and Neon. You know Neon? Yep. They released Long Legs most recently. They won a couple Oscars, five Palme d'Ors, a can and a row. It is a batshit tale of Florida f***ery about a former Green Beret, Jordan Goudreau, who in 2020...

planned an epic fail coup of Venezuelan dictator Nicolas Maduro out of a WeWork here in Miami called Operation Gideon, but the press dubbed it Bay of Piglets. And that is premiering at the Toronto International Film Festival at the beginning of September. And second up, this is one you'll actually be able to see. Are you going to be in Toronto? Roy, are you going for some hockey practice or what? I wish, but no. Well, irregardless, you'll be able to see this next one

It's about Lev Parnas and the first impeachment of Donald Trump. It's called From Russia with Lev. And it's a comedy about the chicanery and eccentricities and irreverence of the reality show administration and its reality show foreign policy. And it is being executive produced by Rachel Maddow and will premiere on MSNBC later in September. But first, it will premiere at MSNBC's event in Brooklyn, California.

on September 7th. It's a Saturday called MSNBC Live Democracy 2024. And if you go to msnbc.com forward slash Lev, you can get tickets and see me and Rachel and probably Lev and his wife Svetlana there. It'll be wonderful.

quite a thing. And if you just have been dying for an autographed picture of Lawrence O'Donnell, I'm sure that's, it's like a Comic-Con of MSNBC. It sounds hilarious. And speaking of eccentricities of the Trump era, Roy, do you remember Sharpiegate? I do, yes. Back in September of 2019. Kind of ridiculous. Kind of.

Kind of is doing a lot of work in that sentence there. Just making up the weather. Just making up the weather. It was Hurricane Dorian, a brutal Cat 5 storm that was approaching the east coast of the United States. And then President Donald Trump had mistakenly included Alabama among the states that were threatened by Dorian. And so a lot of scared Alabamans, Alabamans, Alabamians? What are you?

Rednecks.

And it all culminated in the notorious, humiliating press conference where Trump showed that weather map of the southeastern United States where the cone of uncertainty was.

had clearly been manipulated at the top to include with a black Sharpie, which didn't even match the... Oh, yeah. If you're watching, you can see it. It's a white line, and then all of a sudden there's this little black foreskin at the top of it, this little black bubble. What? You can see. No, I mean the description you just gave me. Well, I'm just saying. Come on, man. I'm just saying. It was like a reverse moil. It's like you put the foreskin back on the top of the thing. It was bizarre. It was done to include Alabama, right?

When it obviously did not include Alabama just to prove himself correct, which he was not. Yeah, the hurricane was wrong. And Trump reportedly forced the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, also known as NOAA, to release a statement supporting his bullshit and saying that Dorian Welly could impact Alabama. No, no. This is some North Korean dictator shit.

where the weather is not what the meteorologists say or even what you can see out your window, but whatever dear leader says. It's like the famous George Orwell. Quote from 1984, the party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. It's dystopian, totalitarian. It is Orwellian. So while we have clearly seen in our lifetimes, we're Floridians, Roy. We've seen the science, right?

of forecasting hurricane paths vastly improve. It's gotten much more accurate in my lifetime, certainly since Hurricane Andrew devastated our community.

But now, just in time for the science to improve, we're going to take potentially a giant historic step back. Donald Trump and the Republican Party want us to leap backwards to a time when we never saw these storms coming. We were not prepared. And too many people lost their homes and lives for no reason.

If the Right Wings Project 2025, which I know you've heard a lot about, but you can never hear too much about it because it's a thousand pages long and it's all been published. The plan is right there before our eyes. This vision for America. But if this Project 2025 is enacted under a second Trump administration, not only would official weather forecasts be banned. I'm laughing, but this is a real problem.

But national hurricane and flood warnings would in large part cease to exist. Page 675 of the Project 2025 blueprint calls the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, quote, a colossal operation that has become one of the many drivers or one of the main drivers of the climate change alarm industry and as such is harmful to future U.S. prosperity.

So a second Trump administration could force the NOAA to be, quote, broken up and downsized, end quote. And if this is what the future of American prosperity looks like, a future where climate change concern is seen as a bad thing and science itself is treated as some kind of a threat, I can tell you,

As a Miamian who has spent my life at or below sea level, we are doomed. Monica Medina is a former top climate official at the State Department, Defense Department and NOAA. She's currently a senior fellow at Conservation International. Monica, thank you so much for being here on Because Miami or Because What's Left of Miami. Is politicizing the weather a good thing? Oh, gosh. Billy, thanks so much for having me on. Hi. Good morning to everybody. And no, no.

We cannot politicize the weather. It would be the worst thing that we could do in the face of the climate crisis that we are up against right now. And you in Miami know it, ask the people of Charleston this week. Even New York City and its suburbs are being walloped today by what's left of Hurricane Debbie, Tropical Storm Debbie. We are up against real weather threats. And the last thing we can afford to do is politicize

politicize the weather, dumb it down and make it so that people don't have the basic information that they need. The average everyday citizen who relies on this stuff to make sure that their family is safe, that their possessions, their home is safe and businesses are safe. It's crazy. I heard you in an interview, I think, go one step further. You said this isn't politicizing the weather. It's weaponizing the weather. What does that mean? I

I did say that, and I know it sounds beyond belief, but what it means is that if you alter the forecasts the way the president tried to do at Hurricane Dorian, that map that you showed, if the president and the White House and the political teams

alter the forecast. They could do it for all kinds of reasons. They could do it to gin up their base. They could do it to send false signals and get places to prepare that don't need to prepare. But even worse, they could just ignore the impacts. People won't know that it's going to happen. They get walloped. And then they won't provide the kind of aid that is needed to rebuild after these storms. So the storms themselves can be devastating.

Devastating for communities. And you in Miami have seen it all up and down the Gulf Coast. They've seen it in all up and down the East Coast, all the way up to New York. Hurricane Sandy devastated parts of New York. So we know that these storms are deadly potentially and devastating economically. And the president would change not only the forecast, but then the response.

as a result, because of politics, is a terrifying situation. It's using the government against the people, which would be awful. And he did. I know he threatened during his time to not provide aid to California after those devastating wildfires or to Houston when it was walloped by a storm. So we know that politicizing everything could be devastating. And there's one more potential impact if they

fire all the weather forecasters because of their Schedule F plans and put in there people who aren't as qualified and don't have the experience in local areas. Think what that would do. I can guess what the F stands for in Schedule F plan, but could you tell us what it really does?

Schedule F is a plan to basically allow the president and the White House and all the political apparatus that sits at the top of the government to fire all the career civil servants because they're politicizing the weather, which is what they accuse the National Weather Service of doing in Project 2025's report. They accuse the Weather Service of torquing the science, that their research is harmful because it's not fair.

And so they will replace the people who are in there, who are scientists just doing their job. Like the poor guy who actually said that thing that came out that says that, and

And he didn't even accuse the president. He didn't even mention President Trump. He just said people who say that the forecast is going to hit Alabama are wrong. The forecast is not going to hit Alabama in Hurricane Dorian. All those people who corrected the president were threatened with losing their jobs at the time. Now they will. They will not even have a chance to keep their jobs. They'll just be out because the president will have the ability to fire whoever he wants.

under this Schedule F plan. You said twerking the science. I thought you said twerking the science. That's like a Miami Freudian hearing slip there. I apologize. Twerking. Not twerking, Roy. Let's get that clear. I don't know why we got that straight. You were not confused. I was confused for the record. For the record. Monica, you're not the right person to ask about this. I should be asking the people who are proposing this insanity. But why? Why?

Why? Other than, of course, the fun of the abject cruelty of it. Why would someone with the power and authority to help as many people as possible want to use the weather of all things and the science of predicting and forecasting the weather against our own people, against us, against me, against Floridians and Miamians? Exactly.

It's inconceivable to me, but they do seem to have some sort of profit motive, I think, because they talk about commercializing the National Weather Service's data. So what the Weather Service has done for more than 100 years since a giant hurricane wiped out Galveston, Texas in 1900, we've been building up and building up and building up the government's

ability to help people during these kinds of severe storms and every day just to be prepared for what's going to happen in their lives. They help farmers, they help people who live along coasts. All the everyday forecasts are great, but the especially important ones are these weather watches and warnings.

And if the weather service commercializes National Weather Service data, in other words, tries to sell it instead of just giving it away for free, which is what they do now, it could have devastating impacts on local weather forecasts, on the actual services, the commercial services that add layers on top of the government's data.

and the government's forecasts that make it much more easy, much easier for people, ordinary people to get that app on their phone and see what the weather's gonna be today. All of that will be required to be paid for that will put a lot of local forecasts

out of reach for the kind of add-on services that they do now. They just won't have the data because they won't be able to afford to buy it. Local news is strapped as it is. So the idea that they would require people to pay for this information, much less to pay to get the kind of services that you get now for free on your phone through these commercial apps,

that can then add on and charge for additional services, but everybody gets the basics. That's what I think is hugely at risk and kind of what's behind all of this.

desire to make money and to have people benefit. And I wouldn't be surprised if they installed in these positions an agency like NOAA, people who have conflicts of interest, because that's exactly what happened in the first Trump administration. They tried to put in someone who was the CEO of one of these private weather services. And there were lots of questions about whether he had a conflict of interest to run the agency.

Right. I know it's hard to know what I think is outrageous and important because I always sound incredulous and my hair is always on fire. Mostly what we talk about on this show are things that absolutely disgust and or outrage me. But Monica has sort of the opposite problem. Even when she's telling us the craziest shit, she sounds perfectly calm and soothing and has like a wonderful like bedside manner. But.

But she's a mom. But let me let me be clear what she just said, like privatizing the weather, weather for profit. I mean, can we just take a moment and realize as calm as she just presented this possibility, this very real possibility of an imminent future for us in this country amidst all of the climate that we can't say can't say climate change in Florida. It's been outlawed, Monica.

The governor would not allow it. We want you to get in trouble. Yeah, they'll take me away to the camps to be reprogrammed. But just the insanity of what she just said. Like, you know what reminds me of? Remember the original movie, Twister? Yeah. Carrie Elwes' character. This was one of the most absurd things about it where they're just like... The antagonist? Yeah, the antagonist. Because he's like, you know, he's the storm chaser who's just in it for the money. I'm like, there's money in storm chasing? He's like, yeah, he's got all the corporate...

That was like the most ridiculous thing. But this is like, that would be like a real thing here. It would be like, it would be just like, what was it? Dr. Jonas Miller in the first Twister movie from the 90s. This is crazy. I loved him in the hot shots. But this is, hot shots, part duh. So. No, it was in the first one. The same thing is true in this Twister's.

This twister's the bad guy is the one who takes the data that they're getting by chasing these hurricanes and then goes and profiteers off buying properties. Oh, so it's Project 2025 is what you're saying. But by the way, this is part of the Florida of today is the America of tomorrow. If you want to look at the kind of, you know, uh,

the laboratory of democracy that the Republicans have had down here for the last several decades. It's petrifying because this has been the entire platform is privatize, subsidize, brutalize. OK, first take something that is much better served objectively in in the public realm. OK, subject to public records requests and people who answer to the government supposedly privatize it.

When I say subsidize it, I mean use our tax dollars to then misappropriate that into politicians, donors and their friends and their cronies and their family members. Conflicts be damned, as Monica said. So we subsidize those private corporations. And then when I say brutalize, I mean there is no accountability.

There is no transparency. These are private corporations who are not subject to FOIA or public records, and they just do whatever they want. They can hire people who are not certified, who are not qualified. We see that with charter schools in Florida. We've been like we're the number one charter school in the country. We're also the number one charter school for abuse and waste and abuse.

unqualified people who are victimizing children i mean it is a dystopian vision of the future here already another hopeful episode of because miami monica my last question for you as if we haven't made it clear enough over the last several minutes

What are the stakes in this election then for places like Miami, New Orleans, Charleston, any other low lying coastal cities or anybody who, I don't know, just wants an accurate weather forecast or a fire prone city or a city that needs water like Phoenix? The consequences could not be more important. This is.

I know people think, oh, the weather forecast, it's just so mundane. It's something, it's automatic. People take it for granted, but I would not do that. When it comes to what this plan says, they have big plans and they will destroy NOAA by trying to privatize it and break it up. And we will lose the one gem of a thing that we all rely on every single day, which is our basic weather forecast. And we will risk

losing the important thing that we need at these times when we see climate stresses and climate extreme weather happening all the time. And that is those weather watches and warnings. And the Biden administration has been building them up, has been adding things like fire weather. We didn't have great fire weather warning services. And now we're getting them in place by building up our capacity to predict

the droughts that we know are devastating the West Coast so that we can get water to the places that need it when they need it. We need to be expanding these services, not breaking them up and privatizing them and putting them in the hands of people who will either profiteer or who might fail and then we lose it all. It's devastating. So I encourage people to vote. And there's one ticket that's absolutely baffling.

backing all that we need to do. $2.6 billion of the IRA is going to climate resilience on coastlines. We can do more, but we have to elect the right leaders to do it. And there's a clear choice here.

Monica Medina is a senior fellow at Conservation International. You can find her on what's left of Twitter at Monica Medina, D.C. Thanks so much for bringing the good news, Monica. When it comes to weather in Miami, it's never good news. So thank you so much for being here. Hope to see you again. We'll bring our snorkels next time. Excellent. Thanks so much.

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In 2010, 15-year-old Sabrina O'Neill was gunned down. In January, Taji Pearson, the last of five co-defendants with an open case, was found guilty. Pearson got life in prison, but today that sentence was thrown out. Prosecutors admitted some evidence was not given to Pearson's attorneys. Misconduct defense attorney Michelle Borshew says...

was done by the former prosecutor on the case, Michael Van Zandt. Pearson, now one of several cases where Miami-Dade state attorneys have not followed court policy. In March, Michael Van Zandt, a once top prosecutor on the case, resigned after judge found he manipulated witness testimony, hid evidence, and was reckless during a death penalty case against a notorious gang leader. Now, a man once facing life in prison for his involvement in a teen's death

will be free in less than two years. Another week, Roy. Another embarrassing scandal in Kathy Rundle's injustice department. Catherine Fernandez Rundle is a regular character on this show because she is, if you want to know what's wrong with Miami-Dade County...

The answer is Catherine Fernandez-Rundle. She has been our state attorney or as other people might call a district attorney in other states. We call it a state attorney here. She is the lead prosecutor, the top cop, an elected position here in Miami-Dade County and the other 66 counties, total of 67 in Florida. And for 31 years, it has just been her.

I mean, she's never once charged a law enforcement officer for an on duty killing. If that gives you some indication of not just the incompetence, but the sheer corruption, she's abdicated her her responsibility publicly.

her sworn duty to prosecute substantive public corruption cases, not just police, but elected officials, people in the bureaucracy and the government. And when there is a corruption prosecution, she usually has to recuse herself from it because she is connected to the corruption. Now the chickens are coming home to roost and we're finally getting a look inside of

this dark and shadowy and shady world of what's been going on in because in Miami, we don't have a justice system. We have Kathy system. You now have generations of lawyers, Roy judges, people who've come up through her office who play by her rules, not the rules of ethics, not the law, not the constitution for that matter, Kathy's rules. And as we've been

Covering on this show for for years and just this year alone, you've had that case where a death penalty case, which is now basically all in the trash. The prosecutors have been removed for gross misconduct, which includes that. Remember that jail recording we played where the prosecutor sounded like he was allegedly plotting the murder of a witness with a man in jail for a litany of crimes, including murders related to witnesses in other cases.

Like, this is what's happening. These are gangsters. These are not prosecutors. And here's the thing, Roy. It's not just innocent people whose verdicts will be overturned. It may very well be people who are guilty because what they've been doing here is not just framing innocent people, but possibly framing guilty people. And you can't do it. There has to be consequences for that. There never are. Like, they never prosecute police officers or prosecutors for this kind of corruption because who polices the police? But what has to happen is these defendants, they got to be let go.

And we got a case now where we have a death penalty case that's going to get overturned. And now we have a case in which this man was allegedly involved in the shooting of a teenage girl, the killing of a teenage girl in a botched drive by that was targeting other people. Apparently, he didn't get a life sentence. He got four consecutive life sentences. Sounds like a bit like rape.

literal overkill to me. But nonetheless, that's what happened in our justice system here in Miami-Dade County. And now, thanks to criminal defense attorney Michelle Borchu, who identified once again

What I think is borderline criminal, if not criminal misconduct on the part of prosecutors in Catherine Fernandez Rundle's office again, including some of the same prosecutors, by the way, caught red handed in these other cases. Borchu law dot com, Michelle Borchu. We just saw I don't even know where to begin here because you're jumping into an ongoing conversation on Because Miami about what's really wrong with this community and how we can fix it.

And thank you for being a part of that solution. What happened here? This is an evidence suppression or evidence concealment. What injustice occurred in this case?

Yeah, thank you for having me. So I want to first correct you. They were concurrent sentences, the life sentences. One of his co-defendants does have consecutive. Oh, okay. Well, that's much better. But it's still four life sentences. It's still a pine box. He would be leaving in a pine box.

Well, we have one life but to give for our justice system. Yeah, we're not cats, unfortunately. And in Florida, they have mandatory minimums. And on what he was charged, there was a life mandatory minimum with no parole. We have done away with parole.

The two lead prosecutors on Mr. Pearson's case were Stephen Mitchell and Michael von Zomp, who were the two lead prosecutors on the other case that you alluded to that were removed for their misconduct on that case. I took Mr. Pearson's case last year. It was an 11 and a half year old case, but I took it nonetheless. And I prepared for trial and I

The case never really sat right in my spirit. There were two snitch witnesses against Mr. Pearson, no physical evidence, nothing but a jail call. And I have only been practicing in Florida since 2020. And I've had three cases with Michael von Zomp and they always stink of this same something's going on, but I can't put my finger on it. Nevertheless, I go to trial. Mr. Pearson gets convicted.

Obviously, I'm distraught over it, and I still was trying to figure out what is going on. And on his sentencing on January 12th, Mr. Von Zomp and Stephen Mitchell said,

Oh, well, we're headed upstairs. We have another hearing to go to. And I said, OK, well, I'm going to follow you. I grabbed my bag and I followed him up to the hearing. And it just so happened to be the hearing on that separate case that you were alluding to. Wow. Of that evidentiary hearing. Wow. I sat every day through that hearing because I knew that it was Michael Van Zomp's last case in that office.

And I was so mad that I was not able to figure out his misconduct and tarnish him before he left because he would just leave with this untarnished career. When I knew I knew in my spirit there was something going on with this guy. So I I was supporting Corey Smith and Allison Miller on that separate case sitting through that hearing. And on the last day of that hearing, they played that call.

And in that call that you mentioned, Mr. Von Zomp is orchestrating putting that convicted murderer in the courtyard, in the jail, with another convicted murderer named Bill.

Bill was the snitch witness on Taji's case. Bill is 20 years younger than anyone related to that other case. So I thought, why the hell is he putting Bill in the courtyard with witnesses on this case? And on that call, he said, Bill's really smart and I'm going to keep helping him. And I thought, keep helping him. He was convicted of murder and sentenced to 25 years over 10 years ago. He's still sitting in the county jail.

And you're having phone calls saying that you're going to move him around and use him and you're going to help him. So I just started digging. To be clear, this is little Bill, right? Who's known as. Yeah, this is little Bill. And so little Bill, though, Michael Von Zompf is trying to get other witnesses in other cases into the courtyard to kind of coordinate things.

testimony or for little bill to like coach them or something. I mean, that's kind of what I took from it because I knew that little bill had some type of informant relationship going on with the state. And I figured that maybe he was just being thrown into the mix to kind of

explain to the other witnesses how to do it and how to work with Michael Von Zomp like he knew his ways. That's that's no one's ever told me to this day. So that's just my presumption that he was there to kind of coach him and let him know, like, do this. And Michael Von Zomp has got your back. So you start digging into little Bill then. And what do you find? Well, I actually just continued digging into Michael Von Zomp and Mr. Pearson's case because I wanted to figure out

What more was there? What benefits are you giving this witness? Because all benefits given to testifying witnesses is considered impeachment evidence that I deserve before the trial so that I could talk to them about it so that I could say, you know, are you testifying because this is the truth or because you're being given this benefit? So I was specifically looking into like what benefits is he talking about?

So the first thing that I did was I got the phone number of that phone call that was made directly from this guy in jail to Michael Bonzamp. And I requested all phone calls made to that number from the jail. I got over 200 phone calls made directly to Michael Bonzamp by these two convicted murderers sitting in jail.

Wow. And I'm guessing you found worse. Like, wait, as soon as you got to the bottom of what they were chit-chatting about? They were buddies. Hey, hey, hey, bud, how's it going? Oh, hey, what's going on? Talking about evidence on cases, talking about witnesses on cases, trying to get people to get in touch with different represented defendants in jail. But people that are unrelated to him or any cases that he's got, this guy is basically some sort of, like,

unconstitutional officer inside the jailhouse trying to usurp, I guess, attorney client privilege and anything to just try to get information for police, for the prosecutors to make their cases better. Meanwhile, this guy is a confessed murderer who's been given multiple sweetheart deals, including on the Liberty City massacre, what was then back, I think, in 2009, one of the worst mass shootings in the history of this community, cost

two lives, several other injuries. And this guy's supposed to be in prison, in state prison, but instead has just been chilling in county as a secret agent forever. He was in custody initially on the murder of a 19-year-old who he is alleged to have stood over and emptied his gun into. And there was a surviving witness that witnessed it.

And that was that was shot in the back. As I recall, he shot one guy 17 times in the face and another witness in the back. Am I remembering that correctly? Yeah, I got crime scene photos of that. And no, thank you. But I won't show you. But the witness said he stood over him as he laid on the ground defenseless. And sure enough, he has bullet holes in his hands. It was a gruesome murder that he took a plea to in 2014. Twenty five years he got.

And that 25 year plea included immunity for the murder of two other teenagers in that Liberty City shooting that he confessed to and a murder of I believe he was a 21 year old in 2007. So he got immunity for three murders and countless other crimes. And he

continues to work for the state for the next 10 years. He's held in jail for no reason. When your case closes, the courts lose jurisdiction. You're supposed to go to the Department of Corrections. Michelle, I'm sorry. I'm not never been good at math or that they're book learning. I'm a product of the Miami-Dade County public school system. But you just told me that this guy got 25 years for three murders, including what sounds like an execution and the attempted murder of a witness all in the same crime at the same time.

My question is, your guy, Taji Pearson, was accused by the state of, I believe, being the getaway driver, not even the shooter in this particular case, this botched drive-by that killed an eighth grade girl in Miami years ago. He got four concurrent life sentences. What is with the disparity here with your guy facing life? Did you try to make a plea with the state attorney's office?

Well, I'll take it a step further. He was actually facing death for 11 years. Wow. They were seeking the death penalty for 11 years, despite the fact... On the getaway driver. That was their theory of the case, correct? Yes. Their theory was he was the getaway driver. He was not the actual shooter. And there were two shooters that were his co-defendants. And he was facing the death penalty, despite not even being eligible for the death penalty due to his IQ.

He was facing the death penalty for 11 years. He sat in jail with that over his head. And two of his co-defendants were given 15 years. They were the shooters, though. One of them being the shooter and one of them being present, but not alleged to be a shooter. They were both given 15 years. So I sat down with Mr. Van Zomp about a month before Taji's trial. And I said, he'll take 15, too.

Let's close the case out. He'll take it. He's already been in custody for 11 years. He's the driver. He'll take 15. He said, no, 25. I said, Mr. Von Zopp, you gave little Bill 25 years. He's a serial killer. And he said, oh, he's not a serial killer. He's a multi-killer.

Oh, he ain't heavy. He's my brother. What? What? What is this conversation? Yeah. And he said, well, serial killers have a pattern. And I said, so young black men is not a pattern to you?

It made absolutely no sense. We continued to trial, obviously the guilty. And then it brings me to, you know, when post trial, when I'm digging, not only do I get all these phone calls, but I requested all of the emails because Michael Von Zomp is a government employee as are police and prosecutors. So I requested all of Michael Von Zomp's emails with the lead detective on the case and any emails he had that just had the keywords of like the witnesses names.

I get an email where the second snitch witness on the case, who was also being prosecuted and be given benefits, sent an email to Michael Von Zomp saying, I don't remember what happened, but I see you're trying to make me remember. Oh, well, that's helpful. Yeah. So and then after that, Michael Von Zomp FedEx packaged him the deposition transcripts of the lead detectives to help make him remember. Before we go, Michelle, I have one more question for you. I have to know.

Is this I ask everybody this question. Is this a one off? Is this just an oopsie daisy or is this a pattern or practice? Obviously, just from the number of cases we've covered on this show so far, it's clearly a pattern or practice. So I guess my question is, how deep will this go? You know, how much further will this go? How many more defendants are going to be calling and going, hey, there was similar misconduct and unconstitutional conduct?

criminal behavior on the part of this prosecutor's office in my case as well how far will the onion get peeled here how many people are going to have to have their convictions overturned or will go free or maybe innocent people who are convicted or i know you're a criminal defense attorney but guilty people who have who may have to get released out onto the streets and make miami a more dangerous place because these prosecutors are absolutely corrupt to the core

I wish I had an answer. I don't know how deep the rabbit hole will be. I think that's why FACDL, criminal defense attorney, sat down with Kathy's office and said, like, make a unit. We need to review not just actual actually innocent people. We need to have an integrity unit where people can come forward and say this was done on my case, too, because I feel like I'm.

I'm running that unit, the amount of mail that I'm getting from people that are sentenced and in prison because they're emailing or they're mailing me, they're calling me and they're saying that happened on my case too. And I don't think it's a one-off. I think that there are certain people that are more interested in winning than they're interested in giving somebody a fair trial and due process.

And unfortunately, these people like Michael Van Zomp were in positions of power training the younger state attorneys. So I don't know which ones have that same mentality. I can point my finger at a few, but I don't know. I don't I don't know how deep it runs. Catherine Fernandez Rundle has commented.

responded to multiple calls that she create a prosecution integrity unit in English. No, in Spanish. No, that has been her response to that. And if there's anybody that needs an integrity, you know, public integrity unit, it's her office. But of course, she doesn't want that kind of accountability. She's never had it. And why start now when they turn the lights on in that office, Roy, the number of cockroaches that will go running is petrifying to think.

I want to add, because a lot of people get this-- the public gets this perception of who

Who cares? The person's guilty. And that's not the right perception to have because everybody has the right to a fair trial. And when we don't give even guilty people a fair trial, that's when innocent people get convicted. Perverts the whole system. It makes it more dangerous for for all of us, for everybody, for police officers, for merely loopholes. Withholding evidence is not a loophole. It's not a technicality. It's misconduct.

Yes. Technicalities are, as we call it, the constitution or the law or ethics. Yes. Also loopholes, I guess. Michelle Borchu, criminal defense attorney doing the Lord's work down here in Miami. Find her BorchuLaw.com on Instagram at Borchu Law. Thanks so much for being here. Good luck to you. Thank you for having me.

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