Hour 1: What Happened To Aaron Rodgers?
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Ian, after your exhaustive research and you quit your job and you spoke to all these people. Why are you saying it that way? I'm just, I'm asking them a question. No, but there's some tone in your voice. Well, I'm just wondering, did you get the sense after all of that research that Aaron is going to play 17 games this season? That's all he cares about. Stu Gatz, and listen, I want the Jets in the Super Bowl because I was four years old the last time they were in the Super Bowl. I'm about to turn 60 in two weeks, so...

I really want to see it. I want it to happen. I know you do as well. I think that the Jets are going to go 11-6 this year. I see them in the playoffs as a factor. I see them unfortunately losing the AFC Championship game in Kansas City, but

One of these years, the Jets are going to win it. It's just like in 2004, I was there when the Red Sox won it. Their fan base assumed something was going to go wrong, and it went wrong for everybody else that year, particularly the New York Yankees. And the Cubs, same thing with their fan base, even going back to the New York Rangers in 1994. Those fatalistic fan bases were ultimately rewarded. And I do believe that will happen to the Jets. I think it's possible that will happen this year.

But that's asking for a lot. I think Aaron Rodgers, I would sign up now, Stu Gotts, for 14 starts because I think Tyrod Taylor can win two out of three. As long as the injury is in the middle of the year, I just want him to be healthy for the playoffs. I just didn't know Tyrod Taylor was there. Team mobile.

That was the huh. Ian, so can you tell me in in when you write a book like this, how does this come together? How did he agree to it? Did you were you already down the path of writing it and then you got him to agree?

I always want to make sure the subject hears it from me first. I don't want the subject to ever hear I'm doing an unauthorized biography from somebody else. So when he was traded, the first press conference at the Jets in Florham Park, New Jersey, I had obviously alerted their PR chief, Eric Gelfand, that I was about to start this project. And he arranged for me to talk to Aaron for a few minutes after the press conference and

And I explained to him my process and I said, "Do you have any questions about that process?" And he said, "Yeah, I have a question. Do you plan on interviewing me for this book?" And I said, "Well, of course, I'd love to, but that's up to you." And we went months and months and I was making requests. I contacted him directly, his agent. Obviously, I was going through the jets a lot.

And I handed in the manuscript in January without him. And I assumed he was not going to cooperate. And then I got a message in February from the Jets that Aaron's now willing to talk to you to see you. So I flew out to Malibu. Obviously, we had to reopen the book. I had a bomb scare on my plane, by the way. I got diverted to Chicago for seven or eight tense hours. That wasn't fun. But got to Malibu. His backyard is the Pacific Ocean. We sat on a bluff overlooking the ocean.

talked and so that interview helped the book definitely and I appreciate listen I could have used 15 hours with him but he wasn't there to tell me his life story he agreed to at the end of my process to basically let me check facts against his memory his beliefs and that's what we did for two hours and where did he most object to something you were presenting as a fact

I would say the family estrangement. And I thought that as much as I -- and I interviewed his parents, and they had never really spoken about it to any length or any degree. His brothers didn't talk to me, but I talked to some of his relatives, his grandmother, his aunts, and others. And, for instance, he didn't go to a wedding of his college roommate and teammate and good friend. He was in the wedding party, and at the last second, although he

refutes this he he contacted the does name is Francis play me as a and told him I'm not going to be at the wedding I'm not going to be in your wedding party because you invited my family and I asked you not to and I said Aaron that's how do you do that to the guy he it's his wedding he gets to decide who who's invited and who isn't I'm sure he could see you at a different table

but I'm gonna criticize you in the book for making that decision because that day was about him that was not about you and you gotta rise above whatever issues you have in your family I'm gonna criticize your brothers for other things they did and perhaps your parents as well by just want you to know upfront if you wanna counter that and he did he said

"Listen, I understand your opinion, but it's wrong, and you're uneducated on the complexity of the situation." And so it got tense a couple of times, but frankly, I've always found him to be, and I didn't know him, but just being in his presence at some big games that he played, I think he's the best interviewer in the NFL. He's thoughtful, even if you don't agree with a lot of what he's saying.

He is a reporter's dream to cover, at least in season. He's available. He's thoughtful. He's engaging. And so, yeah, I would say that the family estrangement issues were where it got a little tense outside of that. The COVID admission, really, that he made a mistake by saying, I've been immunized, I found that to be pretty revealing there.

But it was an interesting and fascinating couple hours and really all my months in researching his life were really among the more challenging of any book that I've done, including Belichick. I actually found this project to be more of a challenge than Belichick. Because? Belichick, even though he's a mysterious figure, there was a sameness about him as a character throughout his coaching career. And I thought Aaron was more of a moving target.

And he was one of the good guys. And then he became the ultimate villain in the NFL. And I handed in the book without him. And then suddenly he wants to talk to me. I reopened the book. And then he went on after I talked to him and didn't have access to him anymore on some podcasts talking about more conspiracy theories. And I had to keep reopening the book and adding that you had the JFK Jr.,

You had the CNN Sandy Hook story. And it was just a lot of moving parts with him. And I found him to be a little more elusive than Belichick. Take me through those controversies you just mentioned. How does he really feel about 9-11, Sandy Hook, all of those things? Well, obviously he said what he said about Sandy Hook and that he didn't have that belief. And that's the one conspiracy theory that if he had...

That is unforgivable. You don't have to be a parent to understand that one's different. And his friends that I talked to said they had never heard him share that conspiracy theory. And listen, that was odd. I think, Dan, we go back as old newspaper guys. I can't remember an outlet ever holding a story for 11 years and then running it.

And I'm a fan of Jake Tapper's, but I don't know how CNN has that story with a public figure in 2013 and publishes in 2024. I just don't understand that.

Yeah, that one would be would be unforgivable. And I think that some of listen with conspiracy theories and started with him in high school when he was a sophomore and he did a project on the assassination of JFK and he got fascinated with conspiracies back then. And he read up on this theory.

this vile project called Operation Northwoods, which really was hatched by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the 1960s.

And it was a plan for the American military to attack American military and civilian targets, blame it on Castro as justification to start a war with Cuba. Thankfully, President Kennedy nixed it and said, what the hell is this? We're not doing this. But I think Aaron reading up on that and other things, he sort of came to believe that with every government crisis, there's an Operation Northwoods behind it.

which obviously isn't true. I will say that if he embraces seven conspiracy theories now, it's probable that one or two of those will be proven true. Some conspiracy theories are true. It's just that a number of his definitely are not. You mentioned a couple of the places where you're going to be critical, that wedding story, COVID. Where else are you most critical in the book? Well, listen, as a football player, you look at his postseason record, he's 11 and 10.

And I think that I just in going back and watching so much video of his highlights and his big games and his prime, it's just hard to believe that the Packers only won one Super Bowl with him.

And his teammates all thought he was much better than Tom Brady, and physically he was. I think Mahomes and Rodgers are separated from everyone else in history by their talent. So I think there were some moments where he did not come through, particularly the NFC Championship game against Brady and the Buccaneers, where

He had an opportunity to get that game into overtime and couldn't even gain a yard on first and goal. And you figure Brady played terribly in that game, but he would have found a way to get that ball in the end zone and get the two-point conversion. So I do think there was an intangible...

maybe lacking with Rodgers that Brady had. So it's stunning, really, that the Packers could not find a way to win multiple rings with him. And though I do believe most of the blame goes with the fact that he had Mike McCarthy and not Bill Belichick. He didn't have the greatest offensive coordinator of his generation like Brady did.

And his special teams units let him down. Defenses let him down. If they recover an on-site kick in 2014, he gets to the second Super Bowl in a year where he beat Brady and Belichick in the regular season. So there are obviously mitigating factors here, but there were times when he could have made big plays in the postseason and he did not. And so that's an area where I am critical of him as well.

His name is Ian O'Connor. He's a four-time New York Times bestselling author. The name of the book is Out of the Darkness, The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers. We all had the same reaction about a minute into that answer, which is we heard a fart that can also be described as out of the darkness. And we think it's your chair. We don't think it was actually you. But since you're not afraid of asking... Coward. Since you are someone... What do you mean, coward? I mean, just ask him if he farted. I'm going to...

All right. From one journalist to another. I was going to set it up with hard-hitting questions. I do have a squeaky chair here, but I can assure you that did not happen. Okay, that's fine. I'm not a tape. The denial is unconvincing. Whoever denied it supplied it. We will conduct our own investigation shortly to play the sound for the audience and let them decide. I'm promising the audience, though, that if this man is writing the book,

The book is good, it is thorough, it is exhaustive, and it is worth your time. This is not something that is just being, to forgive the phrase, farted out. He's working hard on making sure that this is properly vetted and reported. That's my book. That is correct. Can you tell me who was the most interesting person you talked to, Ian? Who did you find most interesting or revelatory?

Aaron Rodgers. Yeah. He was a good answer. Great answer. Perfect. I'm buying two copies. How about that? I mean, he's the best interview in the league, and I found that to be the case. It was a very intriguing two hours that I spent with him. Again, I wish it were five hours, but...

Now, I've always thought and found him to be from a distance the most fascinating figure in the league. A lot of people hate him, but there are a lot of people who love him, too. And so, yeah, talking to him about a very sensitive issue. Listen, I come from a big Irish Catholic family, so I'm a veteran of family strife to some degree, not to his degree.

But his willingness to address some very sensitive topics, I appreciate. I appreciate the fact he didn't owe me anything. And he sat down with me for those two hours. It's an unauthorized biography. He had no control over content or anything else. And so not owing me anything, but granting me

at that time was very much appreciated. It did make it a better book. And one thing, too, is he understood that I had to write about his family issues. And I know that's something that not a lot of athletes would have accepted. I said--

I just can't do the story of your life and leave this out. Do you understand that? Do you want to debate that? Do you want me to explain it to you why that's the case? He said, no. He goes, I understand that you have really no choice but to do this. He wasn't happy about it. He wished that I wouldn't write about it. But I did appreciate the fact that he understood it because I know athletes who would not have understood that point.

Who finished second then to Aaron Rodgers in most interesting person you talked to? Rick Rigsby, his junior college coach at Butte College. He's like a Charles Barkley figure. He's not afraid to, there are a lot of people out there afraid to talk about Aaron Rodgers. That also made this a difficult project and maybe more difficult than my Belichick book, but he wasn't. He'll tell stories on Aaron all day and not back away from it.

And he saved his career, really, because as you probably know, he didn't have a single Division I scholarship out of high school.

And as the local JUCO coach, he was sitting, he was living a few houses away from Rogers, walked over to his house. That was his recruiting visit and basically sold Rogers on a vision of I can give you the platform to get you to a Division I school. Believe in me. And he did. So Craig Rigsby is a guy that if you ever had him on the air, he's

he would light it up for you. He's just, again, he's like a Charles Barkley figure, and Aaron can't control him. So actually, when I had that conversation with Rodgers at his Jets press conference,

He actually brought Rigsby up and he said, listen, this guy never lets the facts get in the way of a good story. So when you talk to him, you might want to keep that in mind. So, of course, immediately I said, I got to talk to this guy. And he was a cool. He really was. Ian, through the process of doing this book, did you get any sort of sense of what Aaron's relationship with Brett Favre is like? It's gotten better, Stu Gatz, over the years and more.

Listen, Favre treated him in a way early on, even his parents told me and others close to Aaron, it really affected Aaron. And so Rodgers learned from that and he treated Jordan Love in a way that he was not treated by Brett Favre. And I don't know if Aaron's gotten enough credit for that. And so I think that right now, Favre and Rodgers are in a much better place, certainly than they were in in 2005 and 2006.

And I think Favre saw what happened to Rodgers and Rodgers got a better appreciation of what happened to Favre when he was a young player that they came together on that front as well. Ian, good seeing you again. And I will tell the audience he has my heartiest endorsement because he tackles the good stuff and he does it in a way that's old fashioned and thorough. Good seeing you, Ian. Thank you for being on with us. My pleasure as always, Dan. Thanks, guys.

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Chris Cody, has the video team concluded its thorough library investigation that would allow us to discern whether or not award-winning New York Times bestselling author Ian O'Connor indeed farted during the Aaron Rodgers interview? We have the sound. Are you ready for it?

the sound, which way are you leaning? Do you not want to contaminate the jury pool? You don't want to... I want to let the people decide. All right, let's see. Physically, he was. I think...

I mean, come on. What are we doing there? Physically, he was. I think... I mean, that's... That's a fart. Ian O'Connor, salute to you, brother. You are my good brother and personal friend. But you, sir, are a farter. Physically, he was. I think...

Blamed it on the chair. I blamed it on the chair. I gave him the out because he denied it pretty vigorously. Let's hear it again because I saw Tony was the only one that reacted to it. I saw both Tony's eyebrows go up. Physically, he was, I think. Classic. I heard it. I was just trying to rise above, but...

You did have to acknowledge it. But his eyebrows went up. I mean, our audience wouldn't have gotten wouldn't have let us get away with not acknowledging that that appeared in the middle of the interview.

we should get him back and play it for him. I mean, seriously, he can't deny it. Let's get him back on and just play it for him and just help him understand that if he is buried in circumstantial evidence, there's no one who's going to hear that and say it's not a fart. That is not a chair. It might be somebody came in and was playing the trombone in the back of the room. Definitely sounds like a wind instrument. It was

It is a wind instrument. Physically, he was. Out of the Darkness is the name of the book. Out of the Darkness is where that sound came from.

Get him back on. I want to accuse the investigative journalist. I want to conduct our own investigation. It was a very smooth release, though. Like, he's talking, and then it comes out, and he's just on to the next word. Like, there's no hiccup. Well, it's because he didn't actually fart. There's some other explanation, but we are now accusing him as a show of farting. Because it's a fart. I mean...

Speaking of farting, I have to pay homage to the most brilliant Olympic athlete I have ever seen in my entire life. My sister, Ray Gunn from Australia. Thank you. The break dancing machine. Oh, my God. You may get the salute of the day. Yes. She lost 54 to nothing. She. Wait, what? Yeah. She lost all three of her matches. That lady didn't win. The Internet fooled me.

No, she was terrible. The best tweet I saw on the subject is, she just did a breaking routine that is what my five-year-old does when she says, watch this, and then does it on the couch. Like my capoeira routine. I've got to tell you, I just flatly got it wrong when it came to breaking. Everyone was excited that breaking was in the Olympics, and I thought it was going to be awesome.

It wasn't. It wasn't at all. Now, unfortunately for her, she's the face of it and seems like she's being a pretty good sport about it. But no, it was pretty whack. I didn't like it at all. It was bad. I mean, at some point she just did what was called the T-Rex because it's not breaking. It's just, yeah, it wasn't breaking. To hit the kangaroo on them.

How did we get from a fart to breakdancing? I mean, that was an amazing transition. A breaking wind. Yeah, I like that. Need to say that, though. How that works. Thank you, Chris Cody. You have found your executive producer wheelhouse. This is exactly how it is that you're supposed to be using sound around here. I don't know if all of you saw Dion's contentious speech.

controversial press conference with the local media. Let's not get carried away there, Chris. I know you're going to enjoy that. You just got the compliment. Take the compliment, man. Yeah, just take the compliment. Put it away for a minute. Chris, see if you, and I understand what you descend from, okay? See if you can show restraint. I don't think you can. Yeah, I think you're going to fail at it. But see if, unlike your father, at some point you can just show a modicum of restraint.

I wanted you to hit it again there. I mean, that was the setup, dude. You threw him off. You were supposed to. I did it in the middle of the setup. Yeah, but I didn't want it in the middle of the setup. I wanted you to work with me, not against me. I wanted to play music with you. You're the trombone player. Every time I pause, you make the sound. We make music together. It's in order. It's in sync. That's the way you do it. That's not the way you do it.

Deion Sanders is boycotting local media, Stugatz, or at least... CBS. Yeah, but not just CBS. He was contentious with a few different people. The season hasn't started, obviously.

When you raise the bonfire to this kind of burn, there are a lot of things that can get swallowed in it. And I'm not even putting this on Dion. I'm saying everything Dion has represented for 30 years invites this, and everything Dion has represented for 30 years fights this way against it. He does not care.

that he is going to have to go face first into the buzzsaw. He's been doing that for 30 years in America. So he does not... I will...

Having watched the entirety of his career, I do worry about his stamina for this because the America he's been fighting for 30 years hasn't been allowed to be as brazenly racist as the America we are presently in. I think the next Republican candidate should run on a platform of make racism subtle again.

because Dion is certainly used to this, and he welcomes these fights, and he does well in these fights, but he does well in these fights when he is singularly banking on his confidence in his skill, which is otherworldly, at playing, I don't know if it's that, at coaching.

He thinks it is, though. He thinks, given the time, that he will be a great coach. And why would you expect him to think any differently? It's not that I expect him to think any differently. It's that I know where his confidence came from, stacking successes on top of each other as a skilled athlete who is better than everybody. He is now not in a world where however good he is at coaching, he's going to be better than everybody the way he was as a Hall of Fame football player where no one could do anything against him. He was the best.

cornerback close the position you may argue for Daryl Green or someone else my answer is there Deion Sanders most electric player in the game Deion Sanders special teams Deion Sanders the skill level rewarded the arrogance the arrogance was born because of the skill level he takes that into coaching that skill level

the people that he's coaching against, there's not that big a gap, whatever it is that you make of his coaching. And so it's harder to cash the checks. And he's older. He's had, you know, his feet have been amputated, correct? That's why he... Part of it.

Toes, yes. That's why he walks the way he does. I hope he has the stamina for the fight the way that it will reveal itself now. But here is some of the contentious back and forth that he is having before the games have started, before the winnings started, and before the losings have started. That's the end of that question, I guess. Next guy. Eric Christensen with CBS Sports Colorado. I'm not doing nothing with CBS. Next question.

I ain't got nothing to do with you. It's above that. I ain't got nothing to do with you. I got love for you. I appreciate and respect you. I ain't got nothing to do with you. They know what they did. I'm here in Denver, not National. You are who you are. CBS is CBS. All right. I ain't got nothing to do with you. I respect you. That's why I told you that. I'm looking at you now as a man. I respect you. I got love for you. But what they did was foul.

I'm not sure what they did. I've read some about it being about where he was ranked, but I'd like where he was ranked by CBS in some rankings on second worst coach in the conference. That's a $5 fine for you, Stugatz. What did I do? That was your computer. No, it's not. That was not Stugatz's. Stu, don't do that. Yes, thank you. That's a Windows sound. Thank you. Whose sound was that? Stugatz's. Brr.

No. Was that you, Chris Cody? Was that executive producer Chris Cody? Sounds like it's $10 for you. I think it was Louis, actually. Huh.

Who was it? What got Dion upset? Do we know the facts of this as opposed to me speculating on partially read information? No one really knows. He says they know what they did, and that would be news to everybody else. I think Awful Announcing tried to piece together some theories. What could it be? Could it be the ranking? Could it be a story that they ran on one of his sons? It was pointed out that a local affiliate has a Dion Sanders show, so no one really knows what this problem is. It would have helped contextually for that other than just be a bad look.

Yeah, I don't think, though, Stugatz, that Deion Sanders' mind, I think he's got a higher pain threshold than most for, yeah, there's going to be bumpy headlines. I've been dealing with it for 30 years. I don't care. I'm going to set all my own boundaries, and I do not care how it is that you react to me setting all my own boundaries. You mentioned that he doesn't mind putting his face in the buzzsaw. Who put this buzzsaw here? Yeah.

He did. This is just a normal. He was asked a question about Aflac earlier on. It's a normal, light press conference, and it was made awkward by Deion himself. No one saw this coming. No one even understands where the beep came from. But Deion's going to do it his way, though.

right like he's a guy if the man don't want to answer the question he ain't going to answer the damn question if they don't offend him in a certain way well there wasn't a question though i'm saying but whatever it was with cbs he has it still in his mind so whatever it is we don't know so he's sticking to his guns the only thing i would say is that's a national story don't let it trickle down to the local beat writer that you like you know that you're sitting here acknowledging hey i like you

But you're with CBS. You are what you are. You can make whatever your rules are for this. I will simply tell you that Deion Sanders has earned in his mind, which is the one that's controlling his behavior, money.

The right to behave how he behaves authentically at all times. Sure. Without caring what the optics of it are. I know. Without caring how uncomfortable it makes anybody. And without caring where it is that it tramples journalists whose feelings might get hurt because they...

Behave or think of how things are presented differently than he does of course he has that right But we have the right to respond to react to what it is We see that hasn't been bad for Dion's business though at any point in his career And it's not going my point is he's going to continue to invite Whatever it is that is because he doesn't care how high the bonfire flies because

He's always ended up winning at the end of whatever it is that all the burning of that is. Well, I was going to say he has to win, right? You need to start winning. You know, when he coached at Jackson State, first season was okay. Second two seasons, I think he was like 24-3, right? Like, he was really good. That team was really good. No, it's going to wear thin at Colorado, Dan, unless he starts winning. Stugatz losing. Unless Colorado only cares about having Deion as their coach. Stugatz losing.

losing wears thin everywhere. He's got three years either way. He's gonna do it his.

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Don Levitard. You know how these late season games are. We don't know. It's a big game for the Knicks. We have absolutely no idea how Boston will play. I don't know who they'll play, who they won't play. Stugatz. Okay. All right. That's fine. That's an excellent promotion. You know, I love that. That's great. Sold. That's it. That's perfect advertising for the game, the national game on TV tonight. I was going to watch it.

Mike, where's your gear head?

Where's your gearhead? Why are you not wearing your gearhead if you... Am I supposed to wear it at all times? I mean, I'm a gearhead perpetually, but I didn't know... No, no, but I had just talked to you as soon as the microphone started to come on. I said I wanted to talk to you about the NASCAR Cookout 400 finish. And if we're doing that, you need to be wearing your gearhead.

And you can't just leave the gear head in the back. The gear head has to be something that's worn because we have not been a show historically that that talks about auto racing unless it's Jessica doing it as quickly as possible. Our fans motorsport, our fans probably aren't fans of motorsport the way that you've become a fan of motorsport over the last four months.

Yeah, I'm about this life, as you can see. I also been there, done that, bought the hat. Okay, yeah, huge race. NASCAR is back from the Olympic break, and it wasn't without fireworks at Cookout 400 in Richmond. This is what is considered Denny Hamlin's home track. Now, NASCAR, they've introduced not too long ago the playoff system, and basically you can get an automatic spot in the playoffs if you win a race.

Outside of that, it's all determined by points. Austin Dillon driving the very familiar number three car that Dale Earnhardt made famous is very low in the rankings. Basically, the only shot that he had at getting into the playoffs was by winning this race. He had a bit of bad luck in front of him. There was a crash that he navigated around, but caused a caution with under three laps to go in the race. What does that mean? Well, NASCAR said, we don't want races ending under caution.

caution, so they've introduced overtime, which is three laps no matter what happens out there, three laps so we can race to a finish. But it also forces a restart. Austin Dillon is really bad at restarts. I think the analytics suggest he's the worst at

at restarts. So he's there in the restart. Denny Hamlin behind him. Joey Logano, who's pretty good at restarts, right next to him. Joey Logano has a real good restart. So that leads us to the end of the race. This is courtesy of USA Network. NBC's coverage has been stellar. Great commentating here as someone calls the shot of what's going to happen. Remember, Austin Dillon needs to win this race to have a shot at the playoffs. If he wins...

So, what does he do? What's the strategy after a bad restart? We take it away. One more time around. Life flags in the air. If Dylan gets to him, there will be contact. He can't do it in one and two. Logano looks back. He has a car length now. Joey Logano through three and four for the final time.

There's the contact. He does get to him. Hamlin's pulling ahead. He pushes Hamlin out of the way. Whoa, holy shit. None of that should be allowed. Rubbin' his rice in. Dan, there is no rule.

Against this in NASCAR. So the dude did what he and credit to the commentary team. They're like, well, he's just going to push him out of the way. Now I've heard audio of the spotter that just goes like this. I swear to God, this is me quoting directly from the audio that I heard from the spotter. Wreck him, wreck him, wreck him. Yeah.

Yeah! So if you see, like, in that highlight, he gets Logano out of the way, and Logano was properly pissed, and we'll get to that audio in a second, because he had a fair enough lead there. Austin Dillon had a bad restart. The only way Austin Dillon could win this race was by wrecking Logano. But then, on top of that, Hamlin, who gets by free and clear...

Dylan runs into him and runs him off. Now, he wasn't able to finish in the top three. NASCAR has since changed that. It has been reported that NASCAR is reviewing everything that happened here because it's a little unfair. A guy that has no shot at the playoffs can just wreck you on purpose. So here's Joey Logano, and you'll hear some boos because Joey Logano isn't the most popular driver either. But Austin Dylan was interviewed first, and he's like, yeah, I don't feel great about it, but woo-hoo!

And he's there with his family. It's a great deal for him. Here's Joey Logano after the race.

I was checking. There's no doubt about it. He's four car lengths back. Not even close. Then he wrecks the 11 to go along with it. And then he's going to go up there and thank God and praise everything with his baby. It's a bunch of BS. It's not even freaking close. I mean, dude, I get it. Bump and run. I get it. I didn't back up the corner at all. He came in there and just drove through me. It's ridiculous that that's the way we race. Unbelievable. I get bump and runs. I do that.

I would expect it. But from Fort Carling's bank, he was never going to make the corner. And then he wrecks the other car. He wrecks the 11 to go with it. So what a piece of crap. So what's fair game moving forward? How do you race him? Next week or in the playoffs? Wait and see.

So like the wait and see answer is like he has to do the math that like David Saban said, he has to do the math real time. So normally everybody on the circuit is pissed at him. Primarily Logano and the guys that were in the wreck with him, Denny Hamlin. Denny Hamlin's got a weird situation. I actually don't really know how it's allowed because he's got a very clear conflict.

He doesn't race for the team that he co-owns with Michael Jordan. Tyler Reddick, Bubba Wallace, famous drivers for his team there. Denny Hamlin's not racing for that team. But Reddick and Bubba Wallace were backing him up too. This was a record for chicken shits over the course of a broadcast that was carried out over there. But yeah, what exactly do you do? This guy's in the playoffs now, and you're going to hurt him. He doesn't really have a shot to win, even though he's technically in the playoffs.

You've got to prove them a point and take yourself out of the race, potentially. Austin Dillon worked within the rules of the sport. This is what sets NASCAR apart from the more refined motorsport across the pond, which is, yeah, this is legal. The rules say I can just run you off the road to win. And look, I'm a fan of the Intimidator, and I've got to tell you, watching the three-car do that did bring back some old feels, Dan, but...

the intimidator was never like last in the standings desperately needing to do this like as a move to remain relevant this is uh kind of a bad look and nascar is looking into it there is a slight chance i doubt it but there is a slight chance they overturned the official results of this and denny hamlin would probably get the win if they retroactively made him second this is exactly how it is that five-year-olds would do this with toy cars

Except they're going 200 miles an hour. If you believe that most social settings that you're in are still high school, no matter your age, 50-year-olds, you're in social settings, it's all high school, everything is high school. If you believe that, combined with if you believe that men of all sorts evolve more slowly than women, so largely your 50-year-old friends are still kind of 18-year-olds in some ways, then

That sport at the end of a race is the best of all that testosterone nonsense, which is I'm in fourth place and I can't get there. I know what I'll do. And then just wreck them. Yeah. Oh, there's somebody in the playoffs. There's that.

Look, it is the same thing that heads out to Sunrise on Sunday and watches the monster trucks that were here this weekend. It's just sort of like, yeah, I can go fast. By the way, Dwayne Johnson making a Monster Jam movie. That was just announced at D23. A lot of great announcements, especially for adults at like Disney World. You've got to get a Villain's Land trailer.

At Magic Kingdom. I wanted to ask you guys what was happening with monster trucks because they were in town this weekend. It's better on baseball and football seasons, on football fields. Yeah, I hate it inside the arena. They don't really do much and it's just like extra loud. That's not true monster jam. Everyone knows the true monster jams at a football stadium.

But what is Pluto doing as a channel where they have a monster truck channel, they have a Tosh channel, they have like the monster truck thing seemed, it felt to me like something that might be getting smaller now. Yeah, I love Pluto.

Fast channel networks like Pluto. We're on a fast channel on DKN on Samsung TV+. I have it set as my default. So whenever I'm not playing CFB25, it automatically switches over. Great interview you had with Chris Fowler. Really enjoyed that, Dan. Got an opportunity to see it. It also lets me keep an eye on Mystery Crate, which is normally used to just talk shit about me. As if I don't listen. Well, now I listen.

He was a part of Mystery Crate this week. If you haven't listened to Mystery Crate, the one and only came through. We review sugar. We spoiled it. Lest you think that I'm not listening to Mystery Crate to find out what you guys are saying about

me as well, all of you, you ruined sugar for me. We gave you warning. I have been three episodes in and I keep falling asleep during the fourth episode trying to get to this sixth episode that you now have ruined for me because you've told me what it is that I don't have to watch for. I ruined it for you. Imagine how I felt after watching episode six.

It was ruined for me as a whole. But now I kind of dig it, honestly, because it's what I remember about the show. Otherwise, if it would have just told its story and just been cool and noir, I would have been like, all right, cool. Maybe I don't need to see a second season. Now I kind of do. You ruined Sugar for me. I was trying. I was fighting through. I think your nutritionist did. You can't ruin Sugar.

So do to our friends at Max 2, but dragons, get it together. Put it on the poll, please, at Levitard Show. Can you ruin sugar at Levitard Show?

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summertime, go outside. I record a lot from my office with you and you've noticed it's sitting there yet. It hasn't been used. Well, now's the time. Summer's the best time to start that push. Right. Can we do it together? Not on the same bike, but we could join a class together. I used to do that. We used to have Guillermo Tan. I'd invite people. We'd all take a class together. Okay. So I think you're starting to get concerned about my health and my age, Billy. I,

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She was on it once and an instructor who was playing Grateful Dead tunes. Let's do that. Okay. Why don't we go for a run outside? Guided run. Peloton. Me and you. That's something we can do together. Okay. Turn on the app. Me and you go outside. Enjoy the summer. Call yourself a runner with Peloton at onepeloton.com slash running. All right. A musician with technical knowledge can play all the right notes, but one who cares enough to play from the heart gives music soul.

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