Endless Shiny New Clients
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Welcome to the I Am Charles Schwartz Show. Today we're diving into the world of Instagram marketing with Jenna Warriner, a former bartender who transformed her casual knowledge of social media into a thriving business empire. In this episode, Jenna shatters every preconception about what it takes to succeed on Instagram, revealing how she turned a reluctant $300 gig into a flourishing agency by focusing on authentic engagement over vanity metrics.

She exposes the raw truth about the algorithm anxiety plaguing business owners and how traditional social media strategies often lead to burnout and frustration. Get ready to discover how Jenna proved that finding joy in social media isn't just about having fun. It's about building a sustainable business, as evidenced by her ability to land 10 sales calls in just three hours using a single strategic post.

If you're ready to learn how one marketer's accidental start in social media led to a complete reimagining of what Instagram success looks like, this episode is your blueprint. Jenna shows us how questioning conventional wisdom and focusing on genuine connection over follower counts can create sustainable growth and meaningful impact, transforming not just social media presence, but entire businesses. The show starts now. Welcome to the I Am Charles Schwartz Show, where we don't just discuss success, we show you how to create it.

On every episode, we uncover the strategies and tactics that turn everyday entrepreneurs into unstoppable powerhouses in their businesses and their lives. Whether your goal is to transform your life or hit that elusive seven, eight, or nine figure mark, we've got the blueprint to get you there. The show starts now. Hi guys, welcome back. I'm excited about this one because this uses Instagrams on a level that I haven't used in a really long time. But before we get into all that, thank you so much for joining us for the show.

Thanks for having me. Fun to be here all the way down in Florida. All the way down in Florida and you up there. And thank you for coming on with your arm being broken. That is unbelievably sweet of you. And again, I'm so sorry that your arm had a moment, but I'm glad you're handling it as well as you are. Yeah, it's okay. I'm like really tough unless it comes to putting a messy bun on the top of my head, in which case I'm not capable of doing that at this time. Well, then we have that in common, except that I am not tough, nor can I do a messy bun on the top of my head. It just doesn't work out very well, but we'll get there.

So tell me a little bit more about you and how you got here and all the magic stuff that you've done with Instagram as well. Yeah, so I was a bartender and an actor over in Toronto, Canada. Hi Canucks, I'm Canadian.

And I started volunteering at this yoga studio to get free classes. And I would like bartend all night and then bike to a yoga studio at like 9 a.m. and be just the worst customer service agent for them, to be fully honest. I'm not very good at that job. And one day the owner asked me if I would help him with his phone. And I helped him with his Instagram account.

And I think I was the only person in his life that knew how Instagram works. So he got it in his head that I was some sort of Instagram social media person. And I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm just like a tired woman who is trying to make a career of being an actor while bartending. And he wouldn't let it go. He was like, can you come run the social media for the studio over and over again?

And I said no a billion times. And eventually he was just like, Jenna, what's a good day if you know NLP? He like kind of like talk ninja'd me and he goes, what's a good day this week for you to come in and discuss your rate? I'm like, oh, God, fine. Thursday.

So I go in and I agree for $300 to run all the social media for this whole studio, the Facebook, the Instagram. Next thing you know, I am bringing influencers in from all over the city. I'm borrowing lighting equipment and taking it on the streetcar over and like running photo shoots and running contests at the front desk if you follow us on Facebook. And I'm just like loving it, like loving it. So then I go to my bar and I'm like,

Like, can I run your social media? Because that's like a thing I do now. And I blew it up, like made it huge. Was taking pictures of all these like celebrity comedians because it was a comedy club and

And so then it just became a thing and I resisted it for so, so long. And then I couldn't resist it anymore. And now I, here I, here I freaking am with this agency, teaching it, living it. It's my, my whole life is social media now. God bless you for doing that. I mean, so I started back with my social media.

Four or five years ago, I wasn't on Instagram in any way, shape or form. And we grew a hundred thousand followers in 39 days, which was amazing. But what existed and worked four years ago doesn't even, doesn't even matter what happens now. So I'm completely out of touch with that because what happened even six months ago has changed so much.

So as you go into this and you're trying to get clients and do all these things, there's so much that's changed. I'm excited for you to say, hey, this is what works. This is what doesn't work as we go into this. So if someone's trying to grow this and they're trying to obviously monetize their social media, how do they do this? How does it, when people come to you as clients, what are the biggest things you run into? Okay. So monetizing it and growing it, kind of two different conversations. Let's start with growing it. So growing it first, that you're going to be best

You're going to be in the best situation if you don't blame the algorithm as this like third party entity that has control over your life. Like when as soon as you blame the algorithm, you give up your own control of growing. And I know it's so easy because it's so easy to like buy into the drama and it does change. Right. But we've never like back when you grew so rapidly over 100,000, we knew as much about the algorithm then as we do now. Like we've never known exactly how it works, but we do know one thing.

So if you know this one thing, you will hack the algorithm always. We know that the platforms want us on the platforms longer. And because they're robots, they're taking cues to know if people are interacting with your posts and they want people touching your posts and spending time on your posts. That's it.

Get people to stay on your page for longer and get them to touch your post, right? So people go, yeah, you need engagement. You need engagement. Yeah, you need engagement because you need people spending time on your posts. And watch time is really important, like the retention someone spends on your video and making sure they watch like as much of your video as possible because they're staying on the platform for longer, right? So then you start to build things in your posts like what we call engagement attractors, right?

making sure that you're designing the post to be touched, not just hoping someone touches it. And that can be as simple as asking a question in your caption because you're designing it for somebody to then respond and answer the question down in your comment section. What are some of the questions? So having them engaged is a complicated process. When you're starting to do this and when you teach your clients how to do this,

What are certain questions? What are certain practices? What are certain techniques that they're like, Hey, this works really well based on specific industries. Cause I know you work with some industries versus other industries. Which one have you found to have the most success with?

So the people that I work with mostly are service providers and mostly women. So, but I mean, I'm fine being here with you, Charles. That's fine. I know. I don't, I'll allow it. So no, it's mostly women. A lot of like wellness practitioners, tutors, people who don't sell a product, but sell a service so that their personality is a huge selling factor, right? Like people don't just sign up to get a massage from, you know,

like so-and-so's hands. They like so-and-so. They like the way so-and-so talks to them, right? So then it's pairing this personal branding element with the business element and being the face of your business and really utilizing your own personality and making that be like one of your industry differentiators, just how you talk, right? So B2B businesses have a really easy time because so many businesses have...

have social media accounts. So when you're really in the weeds and you're trying to grow your account, it's easy to go like, okay, I got followed by at RMT Michelle because RMT Michelle has an Instagram account. But it can be a little bit disheartening when you're selling B2C because...

sees customers, random people. They use Instagram really differently. They have a lot of private accounts. They have an account that just has two pictures of their grandkids and no context. And you're like, is this a real person? So both work. Obviously, there's billions of people. There's billions of customers on there. But it can be easier for your brain if you're a B2B business sometimes because you can actually see the businesses that you're talking to. Like in my case, right? Like I'm selling to small business owners. And so it's

they are really active on my account and I can see them and I know that they exist. I don't just need to trust the process. So if you're working, because most small business owners have a lot of resistance to social media.

because they're so busy doing everything else. If they're still in that middle to high six-figure range, they're still the jack of all trades. They're just using this through brute force. They haven't gotten to the point where they're scaling because scaling when you're at six figures is very different from going six to seven, seven to eight. It's a very different ballgame. And most small business owners are just overwhelmed and they don't have the time or the energy to learn everything in social media. So when they come to someone like you,

what are some of the things that they can prepare early on saying, okay, I don't want to do my social media. I don't like social media. How do I do this? Just like you were talking about earlier, just because you knew the phone, your boss was like, Hey, you're, you're the social media person. Here's 300 bucks. Things have changed. What are some of the things that small business owners can start preparing and doing in order to get this effective enough before they even show up to your door?

Yeah, I mean, not wanting to do it and hating it are two very different things because I like one of my brand values is fun and fun. I credit a lot of my success to fun, finding fun in it. Right. And.

If you hate it, I would probably tell you not to do it. Like I would tell you to go to find a platform that you love or that you can at least a little bit enjoy because they all work, right? You could put all your eggs in an SEO basket as a small business owner. If you can only choose a few things, you could just go, oh, fledged website. I'm going to make a blog. I'm going to optimize it for SEO. Great. I'm going to go to YouTube. I'm going to do that. Like you don't need to be on every platform. So deciding on the one that you want to commit to right now, master one of those social media platforms and then

add in others later or like repurpose your content in a smart way later, I think is probably step one. If you really, really hate it or you have like a lot of mental blocks around it and it makes you feel bad about yourself, don't, I would say don't do it and don't feel like you need to do it because there are no rules. Gotcha. And if they're going to do this effectively, if they've decided, yes, I, you know, this is part of business. I need to have this as a digital billboard. This is how I show myself.

How does one start increasing those engagement where they do stay on platform longer? Because there's a lot of people I've seen who try to off-platform people very quickly. They're like, hey, click here, click the link in my bio, go get my book, go get this, go get that. And you're being off-platform. They're like, why am I not getting engagement? I'm like, because you're breaking the rules. How do you get someone to stay? What are some of the practices they can do to keep that engagement going? Okay, so...

You kind of alluded to this, like they're sending people to go buy something right away. So that would be sales content, right? So we have the sales content. Sales content typically is going to have lower engagement than anything else. Anytime you're trying to sell something, you can expect the views on that to be lower. Typically, right? Sometimes there's anomalies, but the views on that to be lower, the engagement on that to be lower, but the website clicks to be up.

which is great. And that's them leaving the platform to go to your site. So we want to think of our content in three different camps. We want growth content, nurture content, and sales content. So a growth post is going to be a post that is

quick. It's short. It's maybe like a seven second reel. It gives somebody a tip or, or make somebody laugh, elicits an emotional response. It's like bite-sized and it's kind of like you just like reaching out with a handshake at a networking event or waving at someone from across the room and you hope that they come over and you're not going to, when someone comes across the room to you at a networking event, they're not going to walk up and you go, here's my card. You should call me. Like, don't do that though.

Yeah. Don't sell to them in that growth content. Nurture content is where you're really building trust. So this might be where you sit down with someone in a long form carousel. Also a carousel meaning when you see a hook on a graphic and then you swipe sideways through it and it kind of tells a story or teaches you something. We're like three things to learn if you need to know these things.

It was a really good hook to start. And then it takes them a little bit longer to like read that. You know, they're not as distracted as they could easily be while watching a growth reel, but they're really getting to know you and they're really learning that you know your stuff. So we can't expect a stranger to sit down with you for quite that long.

So we use the growth content, the quick, easy, fun stuff to attract them. Then once they're there, we serve them the nurture stuff. We teach them something. They now psychologically owe us something. They trust us more. We look like the expert. And then the hottest people see that sales content and are ready to go to your link and buyer or whatever.

So when they're doing this, we get so many different types. I love that you brought up carousels. There's carousels, there's reels, there's videos, there's this post, there's pictures of people with their dogs. When they're doing that and they're having all of these and they're trying to decide what they should do, is there a proper ratio of like, hey, you should have this many reels and you should have these many videos and so on and so forth. What are the things that you have found have been the most effective to build that audience so you can actually ultimately engage with them and sell?

So that's a really good question. The way that my clients look at it is we zoom out on their year with the bird's eye view and we kind of look at the sales cycles. So everybody's business is going to be different and everyone sells in different cycles. So maybe you have like if you're a course creator and you live launch two or three times a year.

So those are like your big sales pushes. Maybe if you're a maker, you sell a lot during Christmas. So you know you want to like sell a ton during Christmas. Okay, let's work backwards from that. Right before that sales push, we want to make sure that we up the ante on that nurture content. And before that, let's just grow. Let's just get eyeballs. Let's just get all these people on us. We know the sales are coming in December. So maybe October is mostly growth.

Now, on a more micro scale, I guess, you could do that every month. You could have a sales push at the last week of every month, or you could do that every week. So everybody's going to be different. But what I like to do is I live in the woods. I live in Canada. Summer is so short. I don't want to work. I don't want to work in the summer. So...

I'm with the, I don't want to work period, which is why I retire and build residual income. That's my entire purpose. But I feel you. Yes. It's nice to have summers where we here in Florida would like a little bit of your coldness every once in a while. It would be nice to have some of the winter down here when it's a hundred degrees with a hundred percent humidity. Your experience is completely different. I was just in, I was speaking in Florida like a month ago and I went outside, like I mostly was in the resort, but I went outside and I was just like,

Fascinating. My skin inside is same temperature outside. Exactly. You walk outside and you're completely drenched in sweat. It's brutal down here in South Florida some days, but hey, it's August. You got to do what you got to do. Crazy. Anyway, so for the summers...

a couple of years in a row, last year and the year before, I just did growth content. And I loved it. And we called it a growth sprint. And it like culminated in some viral videos. The first year I did it, it culminated in a very successful launch because I

When you're focusing on growth, you're focusing on serving people, right? You're like, can I make you laugh? Can I make you cry? Can I teach you something really quickly? And it takes the onus off of yourself and your own ego. And if you're not putting pressure on yourself to sell, typically your content will be better.

Right. Because what happens with a lot of people is they they mix up these buckets and you can do that once you're good. But it's kind of a learn the rules to break them kind of thing. But like if you're trying to grow, but there's a voice in your head that's like, I need to make 10 sales today, then you're going to put that into your growth content. And then you're going to be selling to someone when you first meet them at the networking event. And it's just weird.

So it sounds like it really doesn't matter if it's a reel or a carousel or a video. It sounds like the value or the way that you're approaching the individual is more important than the, okay, I need to go live seven times today. I need to have 16 reels today. I need 15 posts. That seems to be not as important as the value and how you're presenting yourself to the audience. Does that kind of resonate? A hundred percent. Yeah.

Yeah. Like what is the point of my post? What am I trying to do here? My clients will decide, is this growth, nurture, or sales? Just so your head is already like in the right bucket. And then what engagement attractors am I putting on this post? So how can I design this to be touched? If it's a carousel, a really strong hook on the first page and then a big arrow because people see the arrow and they need to swipe, right? So as soon as they swipe, great. We now have engagement. That might look like a hook in the first line of the captions. So

so that they click read more or see more to read the rest of the caption. Great, that counts as a hook. So the two things in your head are, what's the point of this post? And like, am I trying to grow, nurture, or sell? And then how can I design it to be touched?

And you were talking about those engagement hooks to increase engagement. You talked about different ones with like, you know, arrows sliding over or, you know, something of that nature. What are the ones that you've used and your clients have used that you're like, you know what, these are really good. This is something that someone can right now, you know, pull over, make a post right in their car. Please don't do it while you're driving. Please don't get in a car accident if you're listening to this when you're driving, which

Awesome. But what is something they could do where they could do something really quickly to kind of increase that, even knowing that the season right now isn't for sales. Maybe the season is just for growth. Maybe the season is just for nurturing. You're knowing the different seasons are in is, you know, as you've said is vital. What are some of the hooks, the engagement hooks that you have found out? Hey, these are beautiful. We really. Yeah. So like no matter what type of post it is, we want, well, no matter what type of

If it's growth, nurture or sales, but for a video post, we want a hook at the very beginning. So let's talk about like a talking head hook, like a talking head reel. When you're talking to the camera, those first like three seconds are really crucial. We used to say the first seven seconds are crucial, but now it's like the first like millisecond. It really is. It's not even three seconds. It's like, ha, and then you better get in with that, ah, you better get in with that first, ah.

If not, you're in trouble. Yeah. So how does someone do that? Not the breath before the hug. Exactly. Cut out the breath. Pretend you don't. Just coming up. So what are the ways, because people are, obviously, they're trying to figure this out. They're trying to cut through the noise because they're competing with puppy dogs and kitty cats and everything else that's scrolling through their feed. How do they cut through the noise? How do they become that lighthouse against the fog? What are some of the ones that they could use that do do that?

Okay. Well, how about, let's talk about pointing out a mistake. So in marketing psychology, like if you're, especially if you're nervous about giving things away, because sometimes that takes people a little bit of mindset work to be ready to just give tips away for free. So let's talk about, instead of telling someone what to do, let's tell them what not to do that they are currently doing. So a mistake. So if you want result without thing they think they have to do to get it,

You're in the right place, right? That could be your hook. If you want to grow on social media without spending all day glued to your phone, let me help you out. If you want to get more Instagram followers without selling your soul, let me help you out. I'm just making these up. They're not amazing. Can I do that? Can I get Instagram followers without selling my soul? I didn't know that was an option. I thought I had to give away my firstborn child. Did you already sign for that?

For that? I did. I did. But nobody wanted it. I got rejected. They're like, we don't even want your soul. You poor, poor man. Just go away.

Too black, too dark, too dark of a soul. Dark soul, dark soul. So being that differentiator that comes in and you're like, you're trying to buck the system and you're trying to talk to their pain has always been important. We talk about this all the time. Don't sell multivitamins, sell painkiller because people won't be able to hear you until you get the pain to go away. So I love doing those. When you're doing this, how important are Instagram lives? How important are captions? Because I know it's two totally different things.

I always, because of just who I am, it's easier for me to go live and just talk to people because I enjoy talking to the audience because that's just normal. How important are lives now compared to how they were years ago? Okay. So I can give you tips for lives. And I think it's also important to address that we don't want to, like you are not your client right now.

You are not them. Even if you're selling to someone who is an archetype of where you were, you are not them now. And everyone absorbs content differently. So someone might come in and tell you, oh, don't do lives. I never watch lives. And it's like, okay, that's great for you, but there's billions of people on this platform and everyone absorbs it differently. Put captions on your videos because 80% of people or whatever, I don't know if that's a real stat, but you always hear like 80% of people watch without the sound on. So always have your

captions on. Some people have the time to put a live stream on while they're cooking dinner. Other people don't. So in terms of the importance of content, I would say it would behoove you to create reels. But also if you like writing long captions, if you like going live, like again, go towards the fun, go to the thing that you like doing because there's going to be other people there who are into it. So lives, I think, aren't as popular as they were a few years ago. But

but maybe that means that that's your time to shine, right? Maybe them not being popular becomes an asset to you. I did lives every Monday morning with such a puffy face. I would roll out of bed and do the live every Monday morning for six months. It really helped me. That was two years ago. I didn't even realize people were looking forward to them. So putting them onto a schedule, like,

I thought like I won't ever tease my lives. And like if I miss one, nobody will notice. And people noticed. And I only, I did not have what I have now. I had like between 2,000 and 5,000 followers there.

By the way, you don't need a million followers to make this work for you either. But I had a relatively smaller audience then and people started looking forward to my lives and like setting a timer for them and they did notice when I didn't show up. So that's one thing. Also, you want to like structure your live for the replay because a lot of people are going to be watching the replay. They're not going to be there in the moment, which means we still want to start with a hook. We want to start strong. Even if nobody's watching, we want to pretend that they are. We want to tell people to comment like,

One of the things that I did is if you're catching this live, drop a coffee cup emoji in the caption. If you're watching the replay, drop a wine glass. So I would say that all the time. And then people are commenting on the actual live stream, but they're also commenting on the replay and it's fun. And then people would just start and I would get in and they would start dropping coffee cup emojis if they were there live. And they just automatically do it. Yeah, because you're building the culture.

People pay to build communities like that, right? And here it is sitting there for free. All you need to do is click go.

What are some of the, you know, we talked about seeing the mistakes of what not to do. We talked about that. There's these different seasons. What are some of the stakes that people run into? Cause everyone's like, Hey, I need a million followers or I need to spend all this money or I need to do did it. They make these mistakes. And you know, one of the things you're really good at is using social media to get clients and having this convert without having to spend an absolute fortune to do it or be stuck on your phone. What are some of the things that people are doing that are just categorically guys, you

Stop doing that. Please stop doing that. Don't post pictures of your dog on your Instagram all the time if you're selling cars or whatever that is. How are you doing this? And what are the things that people do that mess up and that they can stop doing right now? Yeah. Well, I guess I have a kind of a strange answer to that because in my program, I teach marketing strategy, messaging, copywriting, content creation, all of that. And what I really just want to

what I really want people to deal with is the mindset around it, but that's not my expertise to teach. So I talk about it a little bit on my podcast and I'll bring like mindset people in, but that's the spot where people get stuck. Like,

Like, that's where people start looking at only vanity metrics. Well, we call them vanity. They look at their metrics and they're like, oh, I had one realist, 17,000, and this one's 500, and now I have 200, and what do I... And so I suck now, and I guess I should just give up. The number of times people DM me and be like, oh, my numbers are down. I'm thinking of giving up. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, you can convert one of those 200 people. So you've got 200 views. I promise you could convert...

you could convert one of them. And how many clients do you actually need in your business? When you're talking about a service-based business and a solopreneur, which is my target audience, like you really only need what a hundred people a year. If you, if you really are set up to hold that, you can claim those people. Like you can find them, you can serve them, but we get in our own ways in our head, you know, and then we start playing the numbers game and we start, we start getting attracted to these huge accounts. And then we think that,

We're not relevant if we don't have these numbers. Or we look at our competitor, quote unquote, and they have big numbers. So we think they're better than us. And it's like, you came here to get clients. You didn't come here to win a popularity contest. You came here to get clients. So use it to get clients. Be strategic. And then just take one outreach letter, like DM, to the

to the right person and you can close them because you've done all of the work. You know, there's a huge difference between followers and conversions. I would rather have no followers and five conversions than 500,000 followers and no conversions. And people, people don't get that. I'm not here to be popular. I'm here to convert. And it's social media became this, as you said, vanity metrics, because that's just people think that all the time. It's about building relationships, understanding the mindset and going from there.

I would actually love to hear your take on one thing that kind of has been like on my mind is I see so many people obsessed with scaling before they...

do the ABCs. And then they're like sabotaging their business a little bit because they want it to be set up to scale. But like, you could just bring in three clients right now, I'll make $3,000 and serve them and then like be paid while you kind of scale in the background. Like, how do you know when you're ready to start taking those next steps? So there's a lot there. So there's a couple of different things. First off, most people have no concept how to scale.

The second thing is the biggest problem when it comes to scaling is not your SOPs. It's not your processes. It's not, it's not your system. It's the business owner. It's the Tarzan complex. When Tarzan swings through the jungle, he grabs one vine and then swings to another one and he lets go of the other vine. And then that's the way you create movement. Most business owners don't do that. They run into a situation where they continue to hold on what got them there. And then they grab the new one, but they won't let go of the old one. And I'm like, listen, Mike, you've hired me to create residual, automated residual income for you, which means you've hired me to fire you.

I need you to get out of my way. I have to fire you. So if you're not to the point where I can take the business owner and say, I'm going to go put you on a plane and send you away for the next six months and you're going to make more money, that's the biggest problem with scaling is that ego. It's that I understand this better. I put the blood and guts and goo into this. So that's probably the biggest problem. The second problem that I run into with business owners is they think that what they want is a successful business and they don't.

Because if I go and say, hey, you've been running this agency that's been helping people with Instagram and you're making $500,000 a year and you're working 80 hours a week, which is a light week as an entrepreneur, and you're doing that, that's option A. And you're going to do that for the next five years and maybe you might double the income.

Option B is you're going to sell cat dildos. I don't care whatever it is, but you're never going to use it on purpose. You talked about NLP earlier. That's NLP. And you're going to work four hours a month versus 80 hours a week. And you're going to make half as much, but you never have to answer your phone ever again. Which one do you want? Do you want your agency or do you want to sell cat dildos? And 90 something percent of the people are like, this one, I don't care about my business anymore. I'm like, great. Then let's stop talking about that. You're your company.

That's the biggest problem when it comes to scaling. Because I can give you all the strategies and all the systems and all of that, it doesn't implement, it won't work unless you pivot. So when you're running into scaling, those are some of the hurdles. But for a lot of people that I run into, when they are trying to scale, there's so many things like with what you do that they just don't know how to do it. They're like, "How do I... I know I need Instagram. I know I need social media. I know I need these things under control. I don't understand how to write copy. I don't understand how to do this. I need someone who's proven that, who can do these things and can give me something tactical."

So you talked about how getting the mindset's important and you talked about how writing copy is important. What are some of the tools that you've been using that are like, hey, this is, I use ChatGPT to do this, or I read this book, or this is what I teach my clients in my mastermind. What are some of the things you're doing and teaching with your clients in order to help them write better copy and create more of that higher level of engagement?

Yeah. So since, first of all, I do that Tarzan thing at every like quantum leap I've had in my business, I'm Tarzan just like gripping onto the past. Everybody is everybody. Yeah.

It's a byproduct of spending eight years in a hospice watching people die. You will get away from that ego very quickly. You're like, I don't matter. I don't even care. How can I have as much freedom as I possibly can as quickly as I can? And that's what happens when most business owners get to that $700,000, $800,000 a year mark and they're trying to get into the next level that I don't want to be involved anymore. I want to be with my family. I want to be with my kids. I want to be with my wife, my husband, my dog, whatever it is. And fire me. Please, for the love of God, fire me. And that's when I normally show up.

That's amazing. So one of the big ones is people are busy and they don't have time and they're like, I don't have time for social media, but then it's like, we need, we need it, right? We need marketing irons in the fire. So, and they know, and that's when they come to me because they know that they need it. So I try and teach them through content creation. So for instance, one of the things in my program is like templates. So a post template. So actually I have a free one that your people can have. It's called, um,

10 sales calls from 10 sales calls in three hours. And it was like, uh, we made a post for one of our retainer clients. She got 10 sales calls in three hours. Then she had to turn off her calendar because she was overwhelmed. And then we made the post into a formula and now we give it away.

So you're going to go through that, fill it out and be creating content. So that little voice in your head that's like, I don't have time to sit and learn something because I'm busy can be quiet, but you're going to be learning marketing while you write the post, right? We might have a line in it about the consequence of not working with you, which is seeding this idea. Oh, what is the consequence of not working with me? Or like three things you're going to get the feature and the benefit, like

when you buy my offer, whatever it is. So you're learning these skills while you're simultaneously creating content. And as little as possible, sometimes I have to, but as little as possible, do I want somebody sitting there watching a lesson and then going, oh, I guess I have to apply that now. Like I want them to just be creating content

And then I'm actually restructuring my program right now so that you can create even more content before you make your strategy because I find that people are making their content strategies from their current level of ability. And so I want them to create all like try some B-roll reels, try some talking head reels, try some carousels, like experiment with a bunch of different things.

Have fun with it, and then let's create your strategy based on the stuff you can make the fastest and the stuff you had the most fun doing, the stuff we think is most important.

And, you know, we're seeing also what your stuff's been, uh, your audience has reacted to like, Hey, all these wonderful reels. And I love that you make reels, but they hate reels. They don't like carousels. Guess what? We're making carousels now. It's like, Oh, okay. So don't, you know, people get these mistakes all the time in marketing. They go up and they yell at the ocean. Like I'm going to tell you when to come in and come out. No, no, you're not. You're never going to tell the market what to do. The market's going to tell you what to do. Adapt around it with your strengths.

And so when we talk about tools, I know there's like Canva out there or there's for old people like me. What are some of the tools that you found that's like, hey, I wish more people knew about this program, this app, this whatever it is? Are there specific tools for people like me who have to start doing social media again who have been quiet for over a year? You know.

Honestly, I'm so lean with it because I was really tech averse for a really long time. So Canva, great. Like pay for Canva. Just it's going to save time. Editing things right inside Instagram, editing your video right inside Instagram or TikTok, like it's pretty much the same. I don't recommend a ton of gadgets or a ton of software. I

I have a ring light and stand and the stand is what's most important because if you spend like half, you know, 10 minutes piling your phone up on a pile of books to like prop it up, then you're wasting time. I'm not supposed to do that? Yeah, no, get a stand.

You can also drag it over to the best natural sunlight. That's always going to be your best bet is the natural sunlight. Diffused sunlight is better than direct. So like under the shade of a tree or closing like a, like a sheer curtain is going to be your best lighting. But yeah, I don't,

recommend a ton of like, there's apps to tell you like what hashtags to use. I don't even like hashtags. I don't care. I care about your messaging. I care about your marketing. I care about you following the fun and showing up as yourself. That's what's really going to do the trick. I mean, sometimes we want to buy a gadget because we feel like we're taking action. Go film B-roll and just put some crap on it.

and rip off the bandaid of posting something that's only a C+, that's going to do you better than buying a microphone in most cases. I love that you said buying a gadget so that way you feel like you have done something. Buying gadgets is not doing something. Doing something is doing something. When you talk about posting, how important, and this is just me being selfish because I want to know, how important is the time when you post versus two, three o'clock in the morning versus five in the afternoon or whatever it is? How important is that and how do you measure that?

Right. So again, like, are you an analytics, like a data person? You must be, you'd have to be. I'm a little bit of a data dork. Yes. I'm a little bit of a data dork. Yeah. I'm not, I'm your type B friend. So I will always like schedule a content around the convenience of the person who's creating the content. So I recommend later.com is the scheduler that I use if you're going to be automating your content. But for a lot of people, that's like,

scary and just getting it set up is a whole thing. I teach it in my program. But like, you know, for now, we're not, most of them are not doing that. So if

if you always know your toast is in the toaster at 9 a.m. and you have 15 minutes to post that post, then it's 9 a.m. That's when it's going to happen. It's better than waiting until the next day. If you have a bright idea and you want to just create the post, just create the post. Until you have a system in place to do it a little bit more structured, when it's convenient for you is the time to do it. That said, think about when your ideal clients would be online. If it's mom's,

of like little kids, then they're probably scrolling like...

after the kids go to bed, right? Like I bet eight o'clock is going to be like a good time. And if, you know, we almost all look at our phones, like as soon as we roll over a bed in the morning, you know, that's really, yes, we do. Yeah. So like, think about, think about real life and those real life people. Chances are when you get your data, like after you've posted a ton and you look at your data, it's going to be pretty even across the board of when people are online now, because we're just always all online.

It used to show us more. I'm never online all the time. Shut up. Yeah. Like the day is going to look pretty much the same. Like if you have a really Christian audience, probably don't like post it like 10 AM on a Sunday. Like they're busy. Not a good idea. You know, like think of that and don't post in the middle of the night. Cause everybody's sleeping, you know, just like stupid stuff like that. Just, you know, like it just posts, like just do the thing. What is this sleep you speak of? I'm an entrepreneur. I don't know the sleep you speak of. What is it?

So you've talked about your program a lot. I'm curious, what do they cover? If someone's interested and they're like trying to learn about what they're covering the program, because most people run into the social media as, hey, I just log in and there it is. There's so many idiosyncrasies and there's so many things that, you know, I always tell people it's either out of pocket or out of hide. It's either going to cost you a ton of time to learn this on your own, or you're going to engage with someone who's an expert, hire someone smarter than you and get the hell out of their way. If someone comes into your program, what are some of the things you cover in that, in your program?

Yeah, I really like Out of Pocket or Out of Hide. I've never heard that and I love it. I usually go with the boring, it'll cost you time or it'll cost you money. But here's the true answer. The true answer is it is a marketing program disguised as an Instagram program. So-

I could sell a list of post ideas and hand them to you and you would have them and you would get stuck on a million different things and you probably wouldn't be getting your clients down a path toward actually buying from you. And I'm actually a marketing nerd. I don't know when it happened or how it happened, but you're a data dork and I'm a marketing nerd. And so when you like the program as it's structured now is like, okay, choose your ideal client

some of that, like make sure your link is optimized, stuff like that. And then there's a module on Instagram. It's like, here's everything you ever need to know about Instagram. And then there's a module on messaging. And like the rest of it is just marketing. The rest of it is like marketing psychology and copywriting and messaging and like sales psychology and reversing objections in like a more feminine sort of approach way. We don't do like masculine sales tactics really. It's like a little bit gentler. But yeah, it's a... So it's more... I'm not gonna...

Yeah, I'm not going to teach you how to... I'm not going to give you the fish and want to teach you how to fish type of thing. You're going to know how to do this long-term on how to... If someone's trying to convert and they're like, listen, this is great. Thank you for all the advice. I really appreciate it. I need to close clients in the next two weeks. I just... I can't pay my bills. What can someone start doing now over the next 14 days? Like, hey, I got to close a client. What is something that they can start moving forward with? I know pressure. I just made a post about this. Oh, so...

If you need to close a client in two weeks, organic isn't your ballgame. You could try and it might work. Huge chance it works, you know, but I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket if it were pressing. I would go to like Book Yourself Solid, that book. He talks about a lot of like

quick things you can do right now to close a client, like DM a lead. Like look to that person. Go back to your, if you're on Instagram, I guess, go back to a sales post where somebody commented something kind of juicy. It seemed like you had their ear and DM them and start a conversation and see how you can help them further. Reach out to past clients. Like go to your email, reach out to past clients, see if they need more work from you. Like really do those like one-to-one connections. If I needed to close somebody quickly, that's what I would be doing.

And if people want to track you down, if you were like, listen, okay, I want to learn more about this. I need to understand marketing, not just how to post, not just when to post. How do people find you? How do they get ahold of you? What's the best way to do that? Yeah. So I'm at Jenna's page on Instagram and TikTok, J-E-N-N-A-S-P-A-I-G-E, because it's my middle name. Yeah.

already been teased for before we started recording. Yes, I need to spell it every time I say it, Jenna's page. And if we can link them to that free sales post template, and maybe that'll lend you a client. Actually, you know what? Someone recently told me, she's like, I posted your sales post template and I made $1,000. So I'm like, great, do that. Go do that. Give it away. It'll be perfect. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it for all the nuggets and the tidbits and all that. Thank you so much for coming on.

Oh, it's been my pleasure. It's nice to see you. I hope your arm gets better very soon. Good luck. We'll see.

And that's a wrap on our masterclass in Instagram marketing with Jenna. We hope you're as inspired by the possibilities of combining strategic content with authentic engagement as we are. A massive thank you to Jenna for pulling back the curtain on her remarkable journey from reluctant social media manager to marketing innovator. Her transformation from a bartender to a sought-after Instagram strategist proves that the most valuable asset in social media isn't your follower count.

It's your ability to create genuine connections that convert into real business results. Want to implement Jenna's strategies for building a more effective and enjoyable Instagram presence? Head over to podcast.iamcharleschwartz.com to download our free companion guide. Inside, you'll find Jenna's complete framework for creating content that engages, nurtures, and converts followers into clients. Remember, sometimes the greatest growth comes from embracing what feels natural.

From challenging our assumptions about social media to creating content that truly resonates, Jenna shows us that building an Instagram following and building a business aren't separate goals. They're part of the same journey. Now go out there and create content that transforms engagement into income.