Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
在这集2007年的节目中，我们带您游览语言、音乐和声音的特性。我们探讨声音对我们身体、脑袋和情感的影响……并回到我们在Radiolab以这种方式讲述故事的原因。 首先，我们关注戴安娜·德意志（Diana Deutsch）在语言和音乐方面的研究，以及某些语言如何似乎促进人类的音乐性。接着，我们会见心理学家安妮·费尔纳尔（Anne Fernald），倾听父母们如何跨越语言和文化与他们的婴儿交流。最后，我们回到1913年的巴黎，潜入伊戈尔·斯特拉文斯基（Igor Stravinsky）《春之祭》首演的现场。 在这里查看戴安娜·德意志的《音频幻觉》（Audio Illusions）（https://deutsch.ucsd.edu/psychology/pages.php?i=201）。 我们的通讯每周三发布。它包括短文、推荐和关于其他与节目互动方式的详细信息。注册（https://radiolab.org/newsletter）！ Radiolab得到了像您这样的听众的支持。今天就通过成为实验室（The Lab）（https://members.radiolab.org/）的会员来支持Radiolab。 在Instagram、Twitter和Facebook上关注我们的节目@radiolab，并通过电子邮件与我们分享您的想法，邮箱是[email protected]。更正：该文章的早期版本错误地陈述了“春之祭”的两场演出的日期以及它们之间的时间间隔。引发骚乱的演出发生在1913年5月29日。我们讨论的第二场演出发生在1914年4月。音频已调整以反映这一事实。更正：该文章的早期版本错误地陈述了“春之祭”在电影《幻想曲》中使用的部分，实际上是在展示恐龙的部分使用的。音频已调整以反映这一事实。 Radiolab的科学节目得到了戈登和贝蒂·摩尔基金会、科学沙盒（Science Sandbox，一项西蒙斯基金会倡议）和约翰·坦普尔顿基金会的领导支持。Radiolab的基础支持来自阿尔弗雷德·P·斯隆基金会。 </context> <raw_text>0 Radio Lab is supported by Apple Card. Reboot your credit card with Apple Card. Earn up to 3% daily cash back that you can grow at 4.40% annual percentage yield, APY, when you open a savings account through Apple Card.
Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app on iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple Card owners. Subject to eligibility. Savings and Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Member FDIC. Terms and more at applecard.com. Radiolab is supported by Progressive. Most of you aren't just listening right now. You're driving, exercising, cleaning.
What if you could also be saving money by switching to Progressive? Drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average, and auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Multitask right now. Quote today at Progressive.com, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023.
Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations.
See Mint Mobile for details.
Making your cat happy is a number one priority. Priority number two is keeping a clean litter box. Fresh Step Outstretch Litter helps you do both. Fresh Step Outstretch Litter traps waste at the surface with less crumbles and absorbs more waste and odor compared to Fresh Step Multi-Cat. Find Fresh Step Outstretch Litter at a store near you today. Fresh Step is a registered trademark of the Clorox Pet Products Company. Certain trademarks used under license from the Procter & Gamble Company or its affiliates.
Listener supported. WNYC Studios. Hey, it's Lulu. To start today, I want to play you a sentence that I heard 20 years ago that changed the course of my life. Sound is kind of touch at a distance. I was 21 years old.
Living in Queens, working at a coffee shop, more than a little lonely, unsure what I was doing with my life, and boom. Those six eerie words floated out of the radio. I didn't know it yet.
But it was this brand new show called Radiolab that was doing something with sound and layering and music that almost no one was yet bringing to journalism. That episode would then go on to do this very meta thing of explaining how the words that were being spoken right then were just waves of vibrating air traveling across space and time into my eardrums.
which vibrates a few very small bones. And the little bones transmit the vibration into this salty sea where the hairs are. And the hair cells are literally bent by weight. They bend like trees in a breeze. And when these hair cells bend, charged molecules flood inwards and activate the cell. And it was like, I felt it.
This stranger's voice had just made contact, literal contact with me. And in that moment, I knew that was my path. I wanted to get into that world and use that medium to do that thing. 20 years later, I still feel so lucky to be part of this show where every week we send out sounds. And voices. I feel like screaming is coming.
And experiences. And emotions. That, you know, actually touch you.
And look, I think in a moment like right now, when so many of us feel divided across space, across geography, across ideology, I think sound's potential to sneak in and connect. I think it really matters. ♪
But the truth is, and the reason I am here yammering about all this, is that it's a really dire time in public media right now. And to be able to keep bringing you stories like this that are packed lovingly with sounds, sounds that we hope can help you not just understand a story, but feel it, we really need your support. We've run the numbers and found that less than 2% of you support Radiolab.
And if we could get that number up just a hair, just a little bit, it would make a huge difference. The best way to do that is to join our membership program, The Lab, where you commit to tossing in just a few bucks a month. It is super easy to sign up. To check that out, you just go to radiolab.org slash join. And to entice you...
We just made a brand new t-shirt that every single new member will get this month. And it has a great design. It is a reference to the episode you're about to hear some more on that in a little bit.
And if you join, you also get all kinds of other perks, special event invitations, extra interviews you can listen to. But really, it is just about supporting the show, keeping us going. So again, if you want to check out what the T-shirt looks like, see how easy it is to join, a few bucks, like a coffee a month, you can just go to Radiolab.org slash join and pick the amount that's right for you.
All right. Thank you for listening to all that. On with today's episode, which is actually that very episode that I heard 20 years ago. I hope you enjoy.
This is Professor Diana Deutsch. Diana Deutsch. And I'm a professor of psychology at the University of California, San Diego. Can you still hear me, Diana? Okay. Hello? Diana studies sound.
How humans perceive sound. She's a scientist. She has a lab. But every so often, she will also release CDs. Right. These CDs of audio demonstrations that she uses in her research. And that's why we called. Because it was in the production of her second CD that she stumbled onto the weirdest phenomenon. Well...
I'll tell you what happened is that when you do post-production, as you know, of speech, you loop things, loop things, loop things so that you can zero in on P's that sound too loud, you need to unpop, or S's that sound too sharp and so on. So you put things on loops in order to fine-tune the way the speech sounds. So I had this particular phrase
phrase on a loop and forgot about it. What phrase was this? It's a phrase that occurs at the beginning of the CD in which I say, "The sounds as they appear to you are not only different from those that are really present, but they sometimes behave so strangely as to seem quite impossible." Now, I had "sometimes behave so strangely" looped. "The sounds as they appear to you are not only different from those that are really present,
but they sometimes behave so strangely, sometimes behave so strangely. Just those few words. Sometimes behave so strangely. And forgot about it. Sometimes behave so strangely.
So here's what happened. Diana leaves her studio. She closes the door, goes into the kitchen to make some tea. All the while, this loop is whirring away in the background. As she's sipping her tea, she thinks, is someone singing? Who's singing? She realized, wait a second, that's not singing, that's me.
talking that very phrase. But at this point, it appeared to be sung rather than spoken.
Sometimes behaves so strangely. This is... Sometimes behaves so strangely. Right? Yeah. You still hear the words, but they're sung words rather than spoken words. It's weird. Like, it just switches at a certain point. Three or four repetitions in. Right. It's going, it's going, and then pow! It becomes music. And then now none of us can get it out of our head. Like, the whole office is like, sometimes behaves so strangely. Right.
Sometimes behave so strangely. And you know what? If you do this demo and then you go back to the original sentence, it sounds like, you know, speech to begin with. And when you come to that very phrase, I seem to be bursting into song. The sounds as they appear to you are not only different from those that are really present.
but they sometimes behave so strangely as to seem quite impossible. I have to say this can continue for months and months. It's sort of like your brain gets altered for that particular phrase and it continues to sound like singing for a very, very long time. All right, so here we have just one small indication that music is...
Well, it behaves very strangely. I mean, think about this. We started with some basic speech, repeated it a few times, somewhere along the way it leapt into song. How did it change like that? And if that's all it takes to turn something into music, then what exactly is music, really?
Sometimes behave so strangely. This is Radiolab. Today's program is about answering that question. Or trying to, in any case. I'm Jad Abumrad. Here with me...
This is Robert Kralwich, my partner in crime. It's a little hard to get out of your head. I know. It is really weird. I know, I know. Okay, so this hour, what are we doing? We are going to try... And we will probably fail. Yes, we will fail, but we will make an earnest effort to try to find the ingredients of music, both its basis in language, its basis in physics, its basis in your brain. We'll look everywhere we can. Software, trying to find out what music is made of, and why...
It touches us so intimately. Sometimes behaves so strangely. And touches us sometimes not in a good way. If you've ever had this experience of going to a concert, hearing some music, and it just made you upset for some reason, like irrationally upset, almost like you wanted to hurt someone. If that rings a bell, there's a segment later in the show you will not want to miss. Sometimes... This is Radiolab. Stick around. Sometimes they behave so...
All right, shall we start? Sure. Well, first, thanks to the LaGuardia High School Chorus and Robert Apostle. They were the voices you just heard. We'll hear more of them later. So let's explore a little bit more closely this connection between language and music. Yes. You think of them as separate. The thing is, they're really closely related, says neuroscientist Mark Jude Trammell. When we speak, we sing.
You know how to use the pitch of your voice to convey emotion and meaning. Like, I went to the store just because I raised the pitch, the note, if you will. You interpret that as an interrogative. A monotonic speech, you know, talking at the same rate and rhythm in the same pitch and loudness. I mean, that is not how humans talk.
But humans talk in all kinds of different ways, in different languages. Each language has its own musical personality. German is different than French, is different than Swahili. And if you look at those differences closely, there are all kinds of things we can learn about music. Take Diana Deutsch. Okay. She's recently been looking at tone languages. Just published her results, and the results are startling. Diana, before we start, what exactly is a tone language? Okay.
In tone languages, words take on different meanings depending upon the tones in which they are enunciated. For example, Mandarin has four tones, and the word ma in Mandarin means mother in the first tone, hemp in the second tone, horse in the third tone, and a reproach in the fourth tone. Could you say them?
Would you like me to? Yeah, could you demonstrate? I thought you were... Well, you know, I have them on CD, but I'd rather hear you say them. Well, okay, so excuse my bad pronunciation, but I'll try. Means mother, means hemp, ma, means horse, and ma is a reproach. So conceivably, if you screwed up the tones, you could call your mom a horse.
Yes, indeed. In fact, there are quite a lot of jokes where Westerners who don't speak the tones right say terrible things. You have to be very careful. See, this is a basic difference. In English, we don't really worry about pitch. We can say our words up here or down here or glissad up or bend it down. It's all the same. Not so with tone languages.
In any case, this is where it gets interesting. One day Diana is working with some Mandarin speakers and she notices something. There were these words, these words that they would say where they would all hit precisely the same note with their voices, not just close to one another either. Exactly, precisely, and consistently the same pitch.
Even on different days. In fact, would you like me to play for you one person reciting a list of 12 Mandarin tones on two different days? Yeah, definitely. First you have the first word.
words spoken on day one followed by the same word spoken on day two then you have the second word spoken on day one followed by the same word spoken day two and so on and that way you can see the consistency it's going to appear as though the words are being repeated immediately but in fact the repetitions occur on entirely different days
So each of those word pairs came out of the mouth of one person separated by like 24 hours? Oh, much more than that. Something like a week. Really? And it was a remarkable consistency. Well, that would be like us saying the word mom always at this note right here. Mom, mom.
Well, I concluded that basically this was a form of perfect pitch. I've never quite understood what perfect pitch is, to be honest. You don't know what that is? No. Should I? I mean, I know I should.
Whisper it to me. As a musician growing up, perfect pitch is like the thing. It's like the thing you wish you had. None of us have. Basically, it's like having a tuning fork in your brain. Here, I'll give you an analogy. Yeah. Okay, you see this coffee cup I'm holding? Yeah. What color is it? Brown.
And you knew that how? Through my eyes. Right. You didn't need me to put this brown coffee cup next to my blue jeans. No, I didn't. In order to see the brown. I mean, it's absolute brown. It's absolute brown. Perfect pitch people have that with pitch. They hear a pitch, they know exactly what note it is. The rest of us have to run to the piano. So if they hear a ding from an elevator, can they name the note? Yeah, that's exactly it. Anything with a pitch, like a horn honk, they could tell you that horn is an F or those church bells.
They're alternating between B flat and B. And if the faucet were dripping, they could say that faucet is dripping in a D sharp. They don't even have to think about it. They just know. It used to be that the note names would jump out at me. Diana Deutsch is actually one of these lucky people. To the extent that it would even be a nuisance. And why is that good? Well, it's...
Really rare. It only happens like once every 10,000 people here in America or Europe. Yeah, but so does turning your tongue into a U. Hold on, hold on. And of the people who have it? Yeah. Well, let's see. How should I say this? If you look in your music history textbooks, you will see that every famous composer, like the really big ones. Like Mozart. Bach. Bach.
Beethoven. They all had it. Well, really. Mendelssohn. The list goes on and on. So if you have perfect pitch, on some level, you are closer to them. You've got the gift. Anyhow.
Let's get back to Diana Deutsch. Okay. Okay, let's talk about your latest experiment. That's the one I'm really interested in. Okay, so you compared Chinese kids to American kids to see who has perfect pitch more. So explain how this works. You had a group of Chinese music students, a group of American music students at the Eastman School of Music here in New York. You play them a bunch of notes, I imagine, in a room and ask them to guess what those notes were. Right. No.
Now, how did that work exactly? Well, the test consisted of piano tones, which began on the C below middle C, that's this note, and extended up three octaves all the way up to that note. That's a big range. Yeah, 36 notes. Can you demonstrate? Sure, yes. Here are six tones.
such as were given in the test. So you would have played those notes to both sets of kids and asked them to name the notes without going to the piano. What were the notes really? What these notes were, D, E, G sharp, C sharp, D sharp, and G. What were the results? Well, it turns out the Chinese group far outperformed the Eastern group. Of those students who started musical training at ages four and five,
74% of the Chinese group show perfect pitch, but 14% of the U.S. non-Toran would speak. Wow, 74%? The Beijing group was nine times roughly more likely to show perfect pitch than the American English-speaking American group. Jesus, that's a staggering difference. It's a staggering difference. Whoa.
And it's your hunch that the difference is because they speak a tone language? That's my hunch. I mean, it's known that in the first year of life, say from age six months up to, you know, a little past a year, infants learn features of their native language. This is a very, very important stage.
Let's suppose that tone and the absolute pitch of tones is a feature which is potentially available to anyone. Babies who are exposed only to an intonation language such as English are not given the opportunity to acquire tones. Then they're going to be at a real disadvantage when they come later on to learn to take music lessons.
So you think that as they're learning their language, which includes inherently music to some degree, they are essentially learning two languages as they learn one. Is that right? As a matter of fact, if you take the first tone, it's a flat tone. It's really sung. Yeah. Compared with English.
English speech, it's really more like song. That's always been sort of the stereotype of the Chinese language is it's very sort of sing-songy. Yes. For example, the third tone in Mandarin, ma, is sort of like a J-type pattern. The second tone, which is a gentle upward gliss, ma. The fourth tone, which is a rapid downward gliss, ma.
I mean, these are all kind of musical relationships. Given the evidence on absolute pitch, one could speculate further and say, well, maybe other features of music are also enhanced for individuals who start off learning tone language. So here's my big question. Could this explain...
The experience that I had, and I think a lot of people have this experience, when they're taking music lessons and playing little piddly pieces like Frere Jacques. And here are these Chinese girls, right? Who are playing Rachmaninoff.
You know, they're brilliant. Is this why? Well, I think it's a viable hypothesis. I mean, evidently, it could be something else. There could be something else going on. Like what? I mean, one could argue that instead it might be genetic and so on. But that's such a boring theory, frankly. It's a boring theory. And furthermore, we don't have to assume that, knowing what we do about exposure to tone language in very early childhood. It's just not fair. Yeah.
And I think we can look at it another way around. Here we have a faculty that had been thought to be confined to a few rare individuals who are just extraordinarily gifted. Right. That might, in fact, be available to any individual provided they're given the right exposure at a critical period.
And that raises the question of what other sorts of abilities could be brought out if we only knew just what to do. There may be much more human potential than we had realized.
Diana Deutsch is a professor of music psychology at the University of San Diego. Music psychology? Music psychology. And as I mentioned earlier, she's also the releaser of two CDs. Yes, I forgot that.
And other curiosities. What would she put on a CD, exactly? She puts these little audio pieces that she uses in her research. The stuff, I guess, that she will play to subjects as she tests them. And she puts these on CDs because they're kind of fun to listen to. This is like an ear test? Yeah, sort of. We've actually put a couple on our website. Well, what do they sound like? Just a little sample. All right, I'll do some samples. There is the Chromatic Illusion.
Kind of has a carnival feel to it. There's also the Cambiata illusion. Oh, the Cambiata illusion. And of course, the phantom word experiments. Ah, the phantom word experiments. None of those pieces are going to make any kind of sense unless you visit our website, Radiolab.org, where all will be explained. Sometimes.
They behave so strangely Sometimes They behave so strangely Sometimes They behave so strangely Sometimes
We will hear more Radiolab in a moment. We will hear that phrase, sound is touch at a distance. Learn about what that means. Learn about how it can be such a powerful sound. It will make old French ladies throw things. But first, I wanted to just say that that song...
is still stuck in my head 20 years later. It has been one of the hookiest earworms I've ever encountered in my life. And I have finally used my powers as host to get it on a t-shirt. That's right. We just made a brand new t-shirt that says, sometimes behaves so strangely. I think that phrase is kind of a motto for what we are doing here. The magic of sound, the power of sound. And you know, if you wear it,
It might be talking about how sound works or it might be talking about the person inside the shirt who sometimes behaves so strangely. Anyway, it's really cool. It comes in four different colors. I'm so excited about it. And it can be yours if you join the lab this month and support us. So this is your moment. Get a great shirt. Support our little operation here of sonic investigation and tomfoolery. It would mean so much. The way you can do that, you can check out the shirt and consider joining. You just go to radiolab.org.
Join. Join. Radiolab.org. Join the party. Thanks. More Radiolab in a moment.
Subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple Card owners. Subject to eligibility. Savings and Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Member FDIC. Terms and more at applecard.com. Making your cat happy is a number one priority. Priority number two is keeping a clean litter box.
Fresh Step Outstretch Litter helps you do both. Fresh Step Outstretch Litter traps waste at the surface with less crumbles and absorbs more waste and odor compared to Fresh Step Multi-Cat. Find Fresh Step Outstretch Litter at a store near you today. Fresh Step is a registered trademark of the Clorox Pet Products Company. Certain trademarks used under license from the Procter & Gamble Company or its affiliates. It's Madeline Barron from In The Dark.
I've spent the past four years investigating a crime. When you're driving down this road, I plan on killing somebody. A four-year investigation, hundreds of interviews, thousands of documents, all in an effort to see what the U.S. military has kept from the public for years. Did you think that a war crime had been committed? I don't have any opinion on that. Season three of In the Dark is available now, wherever you get your podcasts.
This is Radiolab. I'm Jad Abumrad. And I'm Robert Krulwich. Our program today is about music. What it is, how it works. And what we want to do next is we want to stay on the subject, but we're going to explore this a little more deeply. Take a closer look at the connection between language and music. We're going to add touch. Touch. And that will take us to the ear. The ear. And then into the brain. The brain. And then to the big question, the really big question, why does music, or how does music
Or how does music become a feeling? The feline. Why do we get such deep pleasure or deep pain? We will have pain coming up, too. All simply because of air pressing against your ear. We're first. All right, well, there is a psychology professor I want you to meet at Stanford who directs the Center for Infant Studies there. Anne Fernald is her name. And she got it into her head that there is a kind of deep universal music inside language.
And she discovered it actually at a hospital. The Max Planck Institute in Munich has an obstetrics unit, which is very popular among expectant mothers. These mothers came from the wards of this German hospital, and so they were Turkish, they were Greek, they were Sicilian, they were the so-called guest workers in the German society. Of course, I didn't understand a word of what they spoke. As soon as they put the baby down...
and no longer had the physical contact, bodily contact with the child, they started to sing almost. In one language after another. I heard them use these melodies to reach the child, to remain in touch with the baby. So the next day I brought my tape recorder.
Anne Fernald took her tape recorder from that hospital and traveled all over the world recording parents as they talked to their very little babies.
And it didn't matter whether the parents spoke a romance language or a tone language. Everywhere she went, below the words, she heard consistently the same melodies. For example... I'll start with approval. When a parent wanted to praise a child... We would ask the parents to show the baby they were happy. Good boy, now you got it. Just using their voice, show them you're happy with that. That's... I'll show you how to do it.
Portuguese. And what these things had in common was that the melody was a kind of a rise-fall. Good girl. Good girl. You got it. Yeah. Good girl, sweetie. So it doesn't matter what words the parents are saying. It's always really about this melody. Yeah.
在这集2007年的节目中，我们带您游览语言、音乐和声音的特性。我们探讨声音对我们身体、脑袋和情感的影响……并回到我们在Radiolab以这种方式讲述故事的原因。 首先，我们关注戴安娜·德意志（Diana Deutsch）在语言和音乐方面的研究，以及某些语言如何似乎促进人类的音乐性。接着，我们会见心理学家安妮·费尔纳尔（Anne Fernald），倾听父母们如何跨越语言和文化与他们的婴儿交流。最后，我们回到1913年的巴黎，悄悄进入伊戈尔·斯特拉文斯基（Igor Stravinsky）《春之祭》首演的现场。 在这里查看戴安娜·德意志的《音频幻觉》（https://deutsch.ucsd.edu/psychology/pages.php?i=201）。 我们的通讯每周三发布。它包括短文、推荐和关于其他与节目互动方式的详细信息。注册（https://radiolab.org/newsletter）！ Radiolab得到了像您这样的听众的支持。今天就通过成为实验室的会员（https://members.radiolab.org/）来支持Radiolab。 在Instagram、Twitter和Facebook上关注我们的节目@radiolab，并通过电子邮件与我们分享您的想法，邮箱是[email protected]。更正：该篇文章的早期版本错误地陈述了“春之祭”的两场演出日期及其间隔时间。引发骚乱的演出发生在1913年5月29日。我们讨论的第二场演出发生在1914年4月。音频已调整以反映这一事实。更正：该篇文章的早期版本错误地陈述了“春之祭”在电影《幻想曲》中使用的部分。实际上，它是在展示恐龙的部分使用的。音频已调整以反映这一事实。 Radiolab的科学节目领导支持来自戈登和贝蒂·摩尔基金会、科学沙盒（Science Sandbox，一项西蒙斯基金会倡议）和约翰·坦普尔顿基金会。Radiolab的基础支持来自阿尔弗雷德·P·斯隆基金会。 </context> <raw_text>0 而为什么是那段特定的旋律？她只知道它有效。她说，这段旋律有某种东西让孩子保持某种行为。她发现了其他类别。现在，禁止的情况下，您的目标是阻止孩子做某事。这个类别表示停止。完全不同的旋律。它短促而尖锐。在音乐术语中，它是断奏的。断奏。
有一个类别是“看，注意那个。”母亲们经常使用上升的音调。“诺瓦，看看，亲爱的。”她们经常使用更高的音调。“独角兽，独角兽。”
到目前为止，安妮·费尔纳尔发现了四种普遍的旋律：赞美、停止、引起注意，当然，还有安慰的旋律。虽然如果您想一想，这似乎很明显，但这是婴儿在这个世界上刚出生时就能理解的音乐。但我们都知道它的意思。
我们都知道这些歌曲。我们习惯于将声音视为关于某事的。言语总是关于某事。但我觉得这更像是触碰。触碰并不是关于某事。如果你突然用力打我一下手臂，我会感到惊讶。或者轻柔的触碰则有不同的效果。我认为，实际上，声音在某种程度上就是远距离的触碰。
我是安妮·费尔纳尔，斯坦福大学婴儿研究中心的主任。当安妮说……声音更像是触碰。这实际上是字面上的情况。
这是我从我的朋友乔纳·莱赫（Jonah Lehrer）那里学到的。我的名字是乔纳·莱赫。此刻他正在写一本书。一部即将出版的关于艺术与科学的书，关于艺术与科学之间的联系。这里是露露。几年前，这集播出后，乔纳·莱赫的新闻报道出现了严重问题。本集中的所有内容都经过事实核查并保持不变。安妮说，乔纳，考虑声音作为触碰。更像是触碰。我问他，声音是如何进入或触碰你的大脑的？
带我们走上这段旅程。它只是振动空气的波浪。它只是你的声音。远距离的触碰。开始时你的声带压缩空气，那空气穿越时空。进入我的耳朵。小隧道。扩散的振动空气波浪聚焦并引导。进入我的耳膜，耳膜振动着几块非常小的骨头。
而这些小骨头将振动传递到这个咸咸的海洋中，那里有毛发细胞。毛发细胞非常有趣。当它们被重量弯曲时，它们会变得活跃。它们像微风中的树木一样弯曲。当这些毛发细胞弯曲时，带电分子涌入并激活细胞。因此，声音触发了骨头。骨头扰动了液体。液体摇动了毛发。
是的。然后毛发基本上引发电流？是的。嗯。这是神经元的语言。从波浪到骨头再到电流的所有变化，所有这些都是它们在被听到的路上的一次旅行。只有当电流最终在你的大脑中形成模式时，只有当它深入内部时，你才会听到某种东西。更像是触碰。
声音在某种程度上就是远距离的触碰。好了，现在我们已经把声音，任何声音，放进了我们的脑海里，让我问你下一个真正重要的问题。好的。为什么有些声音，让我们说是音乐，好吗？为什么音乐让我们中的许多人如此频繁地感到如此强烈？是的，就像我们刚刚听到的那样，所有从耳朵传到大脑的电流在下一毫秒是如何变成一种感觉的？
是的。好吧，让我介绍你认识一个人。马克·杜特拉莫（Mark Dutramo）。实际上，我们之前听到过他。他是一位神经科学家。我在哈佛医学院的神经学系。马克至少可以开始回答这个问题，这个感觉的问题。他做了一些非常有趣的事情。他能够
倾听电流如何从耳朵传入并通过这根粗大的神经传递到大脑。这是一种爆裂声。他实际上可以听到那根神经，听到电流。它比我用手指做的要快一点。
那是声音吗？那就是它的声音。所以你听到那是……他们是如何得到这个声音的？我实际上不知道。我想他们是通过某种方式连接到神经。这是声音进入大脑的声音。是的，这是声音作为电流进入大脑的声音，小脉冲。正如你所听到的，电流有一个计量器。马克发现，当进入你大脑的电流是均匀和规律的……这是规律的吗？这是规律的。那么我们为什么不保持……
是的，那是规律的。对。当电流的计量器是规律和有节奏的时，它会在我们的心中到达并被我们听到为我们通常喜欢的声音。像这样。好听的声音。在音乐中，这被称为完美的五度。来自完美五度的输入……
是非常非常规律的。像节拍器一样。然而，这里有趣的地方是，当从耳朵到大脑的计量器是不规律的、锯齿状的、无节奏的、不可预测的、奇怪的……等一下，让我听听。这是锯齿状的吗？这是锯齿状的。等一下，嘘。哦。是的，它是锯齿状的。是的，马克发现，当像这样的电信号从耳朵传到大脑时，它们会被我们、我们的心智听到为我们通常不理解的声音。
像那样。我不喜欢那个。那是小二度。来自小二度的输入是非常非常混乱的。好的，所以让我总结一下我认为你在说什么。
如果进入我大脑的声音是无序和意外的……从电的角度来说。从电的角度来说，那么这会让我感到不舒服。是的。如果它以熟悉和有序的方式进入，那会让我感到舒适。似乎声音产生的电流类型与我们对该声音的感觉之间存在某种关系。
他们有像花哨的名字吗？好吧，那是小二度，你刚刚听到的那个。但科学家们有没有愉快和不愉快的名称？和谐是愉快的。不和谐是不愉快的。那不是科学名称。那是音乐名称。哦，好的。这些在你耳朵里的位置是固定的。好吧，可能对科学家来说是固定的，但你知道，也许让我向你提出这个，人们觉得愉快和痛苦的东西是可塑的。可塑的。
我告诉你为什么。我现在要告诉你一个故事，一个真实的故事，它涉及一位音乐家。伊戈尔·斯特拉文斯基（Igor Stravinsky），现在被认为是20世纪伟大的作曲家之一，如果不是20世纪最重要的作曲家。又是乔纳·莱赫。乔纳讲述了两场音乐会的故事，相隔一年，在同一个城市，完全相同的音乐作品。第一次听到的观众和第二次听到的观众听到的东西完全不同。
那么让我们开始吧。首先，乔纳，这如何设定场景？这是1913年5月。是春天的夜晚吗？这是一个温暖的夏夜。黑色领带的服装，女人们戴着她们的礼帽。这是晚礼服。是的，这可是俄罗斯芭蕾。这是高雅艺术。节目单上写着这是关于春天的音乐会。
但当他们坐定时，事实证明，斯特拉文斯基心中所想的并不是像昆尼比斯（Cunnybees）那样的春天。不。斯特拉文斯基心中所想的春天是关于变化，关于激进的变化。仪式性的谋杀。字面上，这就是剧本的故事。这是一个异教徒的仪式，最后处女被屠杀。哦，天哪。
但音乐本身是迷人的。开头是非常迷人的巴松管。这是一首经典的立陶宛民谣。听起来确实像大地在回暖。这持续了大约一分钟。然后我们听到一些图提亚长笛。很美。变得有点令人不安。然后大约三分钟后，
一切都改变了。就像发生了地震。斯特拉文斯基弹奏了这个和弦。有一个伟大的故事，当迪亚基列夫（Diaghilev），俄罗斯芭蕾的负责人，第一次听到这个和弦时，斯特拉文斯基在钢琴上为他弹奏时，他问斯特拉文斯基，这个和弦会持续多久？斯特拉文斯基看着他说……
直到结束，我的亲爱的。它确实如此。这个和弦构建了音乐。这是你听过的最困难的声音之一。它简直是和声不和谐的典范。它让你感到痛苦。好吧，发生了什么？好吧，大约三分钟后，他们开始骚乱。他们什么？他们骚乱。啊！
这意味着什么？他们尖叫还是扔……他们尖叫。血流成河。老太太们互相用拐杖打。为什么老太太们……老太太们应该去用拐杖打斯特拉文斯基。但一旦她们开始尖叫，斯特拉文斯基就跑到后台，据一些说法他在哭。尼金斯基（Nijinsky）在舞台一侧对他的舞者们尖叫着保持节拍。哇。真是一场大混乱。问题是为什么？
这是感觉的问题。为什么对一段音乐有如此多的感觉？他们为什么会骚乱？你会认为他们骚乱是因为他们热，因为他们不喜欢那些声音，因为他们认为那些舞者做出奇怪的姿势。好吧，乔纳提出了一个不同的理论。让我这样说吧。这场骚乱被谈论和写作了很久。但据我们所知，没有人曾试图解释那天晚上发生了什么。
通过大脑化学的视角。大脑化学？是的，音乐对大脑的影响。你知道，如果你试着想象自己只听过瓦格纳（Wagner）和19世纪音乐的伟大浪漫主义，然后突然你听到这个。我是说，这些是你从未听过的噪音。
不，这一切都是全新的，但科学家们开始弄清楚当我们听到从未听过的噪音时，尤其是和声不和谐的噪音时，我们的大脑会发生什么。
我们发现，通常被判断为不和谐的和弦，会引发大脑活动的剧烈波动。这是扬·费什曼（Jan Fishman）。他是一位神经科学家，研究大脑中的这些剧烈波动。在大脑的一个区域，称为听觉皮层。让我们稍微放大一下听觉皮层，因为这基本上是听觉的中心。
当你在听音乐时，各种神经元在做各种事情。有一群特别的神经元是扬感兴趣的。没错。他怀疑当它听到像这样的声音时，这群神经元会变得非常激动。这些神经元可能是新噪音部门。
因为他认为它们的工作是接收每一个新的、奇怪的、无序的、不可预测的噪音，并将其理解。
找到模式。有一组神经元的唯一工作就是……这是乔纳的说法。……将那个不和谐的音符转化，剖析它，拆解它，试图理解它。我们是寻找模式的动物。这是扬·费什曼的说法。因此，在听觉皮层的层面上，大脑有这个艰巨的任务，必须能够解开这种复杂的声音混合。
大多数时候，听觉皮层中的那些神经元成功地找到了模式。但偶尔，也许那天晚上就是这种情况，它们失败了。
好的，所以罗伯特，想象一下在听《春之祭》的观众脑海中，所有这些神经元……是的，我能听到它们……试图理解新的声音却失败了。不仅仅是失败一两次，而是一次又一次。是的，因为《春之祭》始终保持不和谐，所以它们永远无法得到休息。当那些神经元反复失败时……
会有后果。化学后果。发生的事情是我们的神经元释放出一点多巴胺。那么多巴胺有什么作用？好吧，多巴胺让我们感受。一点多巴胺让你感到快乐。这就是为什么性和药物让你感到欣快。但稍微多一点。
而这种欣快感会变成字面上的精神分裂症。真的吗？是的。我不想以任何方式简化精神分裂症，但我们一些最有效的精神分裂症治疗方法是通过抑制大脑中的多巴胺释放来工作的。所以某种关系确实存在。过多的多巴胺在临床上已被证明会让人感到疯狂。是的。
也许这就是1913年5月29日那晚发生的事情。音乐爆发了。神经元反抗了。对。多巴胺在他们的大脑中泛滥。人们发疯了。字面上发疯。让我们去第二个晚上。这个作品再次回到巴黎，不是吗？是的。距离骚乱有多长时间？从5月到3月。哦。
所以几乎是一年后。是的。这次它没有伴随芭蕾。这次只是作为音乐作品演出。那么有人买票吗？哦，是的。它会售罄。它引发了几晚的暴力骚乱。你能现在设定一下情况吗，观众？是不同的观众吗？我实际上不知道观众是否不同。但我们至少可以说，观众带着不同的信息来观看它。没错。他们已经被警告了。
所以第一次他们实际上可以坐下来，真正尝试关注音符。通过愿意倾听，他们能够听到斯特拉文斯基在这部作品中隐藏的秩序和模式。他们能够听到音乐并找到隐藏在噪音下的秩序。这次有骚乱吗，第二轮？哦，不，正好相反。斯特拉文斯基成了英雄。他们把他抬起来。
真的吗？字面上？他被抬起来，媒体赞誉有加。在一年内？在一年内。仅仅一年，斯特拉文斯基从恶棍变成了时尚偶像。以至于警方不得不护送他离开音乐厅，以保护他免受崇拜者的伤害。
而这仅仅是个开始。如果你想讲第三个故事，那就是它变成了儿童音乐。它在1940年变成了迪士尼音乐。在斯特拉文斯基引发了一场暴力、血腥的骚乱后27年……
他正在与米老鼠谈判使用他音乐的权利，出现在《幻想曲》中。哪个《幻想曲》？是以河马和小芭蕾舞裙为主角的吗？不，是……是那个吗？是蘑菇吗，乔纳？是的，我想是蘑菇，不是吗？是蘑菇。实际上，我们后来查了一下，是恐龙的部分。那么这是怎么发生的？你怎么能如此迅速地从让人发狂的东西变成胜利……
变成儿童音乐。是的，我的意思是，《春之祭》是大脑惊人可塑性的完美证据。看，这对我来说是最酷的部分。如果你记住这整个事情中的一小部分科学，请记住这一点。我们之前遇到的那些神经元？那个有小声音的？我喜欢它们。结果发现这些神经元会学习。
而且它们学习得很快。我真聪明。因为它们实际上是一个更大脑细胞网络的一部分，具有非常技术性的名称。称为皮层下网络（corticofugal network）。这个网络的作用是，它总是监测、倾听进入大脑的声音，并调整这些神经元以更好地听到这些声音。就像试图调频收音机，刚好调到合适的位置。一切都会好的。
所以我们的神经元实际上会调整。字面上，我们在谈论生化工程的意义。因此，如果在那个第一晚你只是把《春之祭》听作纯噪音，从头到尾，如果你在倾听，如果你让你的皮层下网络发挥作用……
它实际上可以重新塑造你的大脑，让你在交响乐演变时更好地听到模式。可以说这是某种拔河吗？一个艺术家出现，创造出新颖、不可预测、奇怪的东西，或许在第一次听时像噪音，而艺术家对此感到兴奋。然后大脑……
慢慢但肯定地将其变得熟悉。好吧，大脑厌恶新事物。大脑不断想要将我们经历过的每一次体验同化到其他每一次体验中。我认为斯特拉文斯基意识到，艺术家的目的就是挑战大脑，打破大脑的保守循环。
令我惊讶的是，这里有一位像伊戈尔·斯特拉文斯基这样的艺术家，他故意想让人们坐在座位上，真正倾听音乐。而他选择的策略是，不是取悦他们，而是让他们感到一点不适，甚至是真正的痛苦。对。事实上，他们不仅倾听，他们还骚乱。但
在一年内，这对我来说是悲哀的部分，在一年内，听起来更容易了。突然间，它变得愉快。突然间，他们喜欢它。突然间，伊戈尔·斯特拉文斯基失去了他的创新性。你为什么觉得这很悲哀？好吧，因为这有点，我不知道。我从未想过大脑是艺术家的敌人。是的，但我可以给你一个不同的解释。我的意思是，这里有一个人提供了最……
不和谐、刺耳、打击感、痛苦的音乐，这是到那时为止任何人听过的。我们学会了去爱它。这难道不让你感到自豪吗？不。我的意思是，我们的大脑可以解码任何东西。我们学会去爱它只是因为它制作得很好。是的，但……这只是随机的汽车喇叭声。我认为你真的无法欣赏那种。 我不同意。你认为这会像……你听过斯特拉文斯基之后写的音乐吗？斯特拉文斯基？
比你刚刚做的还要糟糕。是的，但我的大脑从未适应过那种。但有些人喜欢那种东西。我的唯一观点是，如果在我们耳朵里有这些固定的极点，介于和谐与不和谐之间，这就是我们开始整个事情的方式，而现在我们最终了解到我们的脑可以在如此惊人的程度上覆盖这一点，那么……
文化胜利。文化战胜生物。这是事实，但对我来说，这很悲哀。这对艺术家来说是悲哀。对我们来说并不悲哀。这就像艺术家和大脑之间处于一种永恒的斗争。今天就到此为止。额外制作由萨拉·卡里（Sara Khari）完成，我们下周会给你带来一些新声音。Radiolab由贾德·阿布姆拉德（Jad Abumrad）创立，索伦·惠勒（Soren Wheeler）编辑。
露露·米勒（Lulu Miller）和拉提夫·纳赛尔（Latif Nasser）是我们的联合主持人。迪伦·基夫（Dylan Keefe）是我们的声音设计总监。
我们的工作人员包括：西蒙·阿德勒（Simon Adler）、杰里米·布鲁姆（Jeremy Bloom）、贝卡·布雷斯勒（Becca Bressler）、瑞秋·库西克（Rachel Cusick）、阿卡提·福斯特-鲁基兹（Akati Faust-Ruquiz）、W·哈里·福图纳（W. Harry Fortuna）、大卫·盖布尔（David Gable）、玛丽亚·帕兹·古铁雷斯（Maria Paz Gutierrez）、桑杜·尼亚南萨班南（Sundu Nyanamsambanan）、马特·基尔提（Matt Kielty）、安妮·麦基温（Annie McEwen）、亚历克斯·尼森（Alex Neeson）、萨拉·卡里（Sara Khari）、安娜·罗斯科·帕兹（Anna Roscoe Paz）、艾莉莎·琼·佩里（Alyssa Jung Perry）、莎拉·桑德巴赫（Sarah Sandbach）、阿里安·瓦克（Ariane Wack）、帕特·沃尔特斯（Pat Walters）、
和莫莉·韦伯斯特（Molly Webster）。我们的事实核查员是黛安·凯利（Diane Kelly）、艾米莉·克里格（Emily Krieger）和娜塔莉·米德尔顿（Natalie Middleton）。嗨，我是芬恩，来自康涅狄格州斯托尔斯。Radiolab科学节目的领导支持来自戈登和贝蒂·摩尔基金会、科学沙盒（Science Sandbox，一项西蒙斯基金会倡议）和约翰·坦普尔顿基金会。Radiolab的基础支持来自阿尔弗雷德·P·斯隆基金会。