S23 E17: BTS with BCM - Case & Community Updates with The BCM Production Team
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Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences. This season contains discussions of medical negligence, birth trauma, and infant loss, which may be upsetting for some listeners. For a full content warning, sources, and resources, please visit the episode notes.

Opinions shared by the guests of the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of myself, Broken Cycle Media, and Wondery. The podcast and any linked materials should not be misconstrued as a substitution for legal or medical advice. I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is Something Was Wrong. You're making on me, you don't You don't Until you don't

Hello, friends. I am very excited to record this episode today because I get to do so with the Something Was Wrong team. We're going to chat about some community updates, some happy updates. We're going to talk case updates. We're going to do a little Q&A. We're going to talk about new shows, new content we have coming your way, all sorts of things. I figured we'd kick it off with introductions. We'll go in alphabetical order because I'm a nerd. A

ABC, even though most of our listeners are probably very familiar with who you are, introduce yourself and a little bit about your background and how listeners may recognize your voice, Amy, and then a bit about what you do here at Broken Cycle Media. It's a whole lot. You might recognize my voice from season seven of Something Was Wrong. I was gifted the opportunity and honor to share my mom's story, my family history, and

That experience brought us so close, Tiffany. I think it was the tie that bound us in the beginning. And then it's been such a beautiful opportunity to continue to keep in touch, but also to work together. Now I am the host and co-producer of What Came Next, which is crazy because we're about to hit episode 126. It's my mom's birthday, so I can remember the number. So 126 episodes already. Insane. I think the work that you're doing is so important. It's so amazing.

Our friendship really blossomed after working together on season seven. And then Amy ended up returning the favor and helping me tell my story for season 16. And Lily was definitely a part of that as well. Lauren, you're next in terms of alphabetical order. You're the newest on the team. We love having Lauren on the team. If you're a newer listener, you might be more quick to recognize Lauren's voice.

Yeah, thank you guys for having me. I'm so honored to be here. My name is Lauren. I am the social media manager for Something Was Wrong. But as some of you have put together, I am on season 20 of Something Was Wrong. And I had the misfortune of meeting and living with Jessica Pauly. Lauren, we started working together on season 20. And then I started following her page and seeing the things that she does on social media and learning more about her business. And I was like, after the season is over,

can I low-key hire you? And it's been amazing. We love, here at Something Goes Wrong, hiring survivors. It's part of our mission. It's also just really great for me personally because I get to keep having these continual relationships with y'all and excuses to talk to you guys every week, which I love.

Lily has actually been on our team the longest. Lily, do you want to talk a little bit about that? And we have to shout out Suze and Jeff. Yes, shout out to my parents, Susan and Jeff. Great support systems of mine, but also of the show, my mom. I remember I showed it to her

I'm Lily. I am another associate producer here at Something Was Wrong. I think this is my three-year anniversary here. So I

I started out as an intern. I went to film school at Boston University, needed something to do over the summer. And I reached out to Tiffany and started out as an intern working on more social media. And then I was working part-time my senior year in a bit more of a production assistant setting. After I graduated, I'm here full-time.

Amy and I help out with the associate producing. So helping in all stages of production, organizing different documents we get, organizing the flow of the season, gathering the interview and turning them into transcripts and scripts, audio reviews, all of that stuff. I can't ask for a better team to work with. You guys are incredible. It really is the best team.

I love having you on the team, Lily. And it's crazy thinking that Lily was like the first time I allowed somebody to help me in life and business. Just kidding. It was so hard for me at first to even contemplate handing anything off because I didn't want it to ever be disingenuous. I just put so much insane pressure on myself. Always. I had to slowly build my trust.

And Lily was the best person to do this with because she is the type of person who goes above and beyond. I'd be like, oh, can you research this? She's like, say less, 65 page doc the next day. You made it as easy as possible on me. And I think that it just worked out so perfectly. We were able to slowly evolve that relationship.

I have a lot of workplace trauma that I talked about in my memoir season. I had a lot of toxic female boss relationships in my own life. It was hard for me at first, to be honest, like be a quote employer because I was so worried about hurting somebody who worked for me and making them feel that powerlessness. After a while, I had to be like, no, like I need you to assign me work basically in the sweetest way possible. That's your job.

I think it was also interesting for me starting as a huge fan of your work and huge admiration for that. And then to going to work together and work for someone that I admire so much, I was kind of just happy to be there. And I was excited to do anything that was given. And being a young, employed person, I had no other idea outside of my job at Sweetgreen. I didn't really know how a proper workplace functions. So I feel like

It was a nice learning journey for both of us. But it's worked out so well. Look at us now thriving. Our staff meetings, which is this quad here, our Monday kickoff meetings are one of the highlights of my work week because it's always like, what did you guys do for the weekend? But then it's always like, okay, what the fuck is happening in the world?

Sometimes these can go longer than planned, but it's sort of like a world debrief. And I just love that about our staff meetings because it's part therapy. It's so valuable. I just love every single person that works for Broken Cycle Media and that we have on our team. And we're super, super lucky to have, not that I'm biased, the best people in the world on our team. My favorite thing after those meetings is the AI captures. Oh, yeah. Especially during White Lotus season. Yeah.

It was like Amy had this opinion about White Lotus and Tiffany had this prediction. And then like, it's so good. That's perfect. But I also I do love those meetings, especially it's on a Monday and it kicks off the week in the best way. I don't really have Sunday scaries in the way that my other kind of more corporate friends have. And I feel like those sometimes three hour long meetings set it up in a nice way.

Yeah, I think doing this work, we get into so many deep topics with the people we meet with. I guess it makes sense that also like bonds our team and bonds us to the people that we work with. It's just good old fashioned human connection, which feels so rare sometimes.

So I'm excited to kind of bring like a recorded version of our weekly Monday chaos meetings. This is we're actually recording this on a Monday when we normally are having our regular meeting time. I also really wanted to add one of my favorite things, not only about Monday meetings, is also our group chat.

I live for that too, because it's like our update plays. Even if it's a text about work and it's like, can we investigate this really fast? It's always exciting and it's always a safe place. So I did want to give a shout out to the group chat too. I totally agree. It's funny. Sometimes I'll be texting you guys and someone sends like a GIF or just a funny bitmoji. And then my friend will look over and be like, are you texting your boss and your coworkers? And

It's a nice lighter way to approach this heavy work. Yeah, we take the work seriously, but not ourselves. And that's a really important distinction. The survivors and their privacy and the honor that we get and all the things that we work on, we uphold that with the most seriousness.

I think all of our personalities, we have a very like when it's time to get to work, let's get to work. But also we are fun people, humorous people, and we have had to learn to like use humor to cope with some of the shit that you're just exposed to and life itself.

The heaviness of the topics that we research and that we discuss brings us all so much closer in a way that it doesn't always feel like work. It's so rewarding and valuable. It doesn't feel like coworkers. It feels like family. That's really meaningful. It's a good group.

And shout out to Becca, who will be editing this, our audio editor, who is also an essential part of our team. And Steven, who works on What Came Next, and he'll be working on our new show, Credible Threat. We're thrilled that he's going to be working with us on that show as well. We could not do it without our audio editors. We also have a lot of other...

partners since we're introducing the team. Also shout out our business management team, Jason, Jennifer and Samantha, who are our partners on more of the business, HR, financial adulting side of things.

My lawyer, Alan, our other legal team partners, Wondery, as well as my agents at WME, Marissa and Travis, all the artists we work with that contribute their music. Sarah Stewart, who does our graphic design and often designs our flyers and things like that for us.

The listeners too. Everybody contributes to the communities and it's not lost on us. So just wanted to start by giving people a little bit of insight into what the team does. And then also just thanking everybody who like makes the dream work because it definitely takes a lot. Hoping that episodes like this will also help people get like a little bit of a peek behind the scenes and understand a little bit more about our process and things of that nature.

Amy worked alongside me closely with season 23. Everybody on the team works on every season, but Lily and Amy rotate seasons that they sort of take the lead on by my side. Amy was that person for season 23. I'd like to hear Amy as somebody who had worked on the scripting and a lot of the behind the scenes work, fact checking, research,

what it was like for you to hear the finale and hear the season back and just kind of what your general thoughts were.

I think season 23 was incredibly powerful. I don't even know if we'll ever know the ripple effects of the season itself and the women's actions and everything that they're doing to change the medical landscape. I feel so honored to have been a part of it. Personally, I realized that I had had birthing trauma in hearing their stories. And I think there's so much validation to come from naming things and

and sharing them and knowing that you aren't alone. It brought me personal solace. I had a girlfriend in my own life. She said how much validation was just brought. And I think that the finale, especially really, really highlighted the expansiveness of what we covered and the effects that it has across a profession, across families, across a state, the country, the world.

I think it was just really incredible what we encapsulated. It was a lot of hard work. It took us weeks. Yeah, that finale was a long time coming. And it saw a lot of forms. But I think that what we did was ultimately the best service to the season and to the survivors and to what we were accomplishing. It was not about taking down midwifery in any way. It was just a commentary on these women's experiences.

and how we all can work at placing better protections for mothers at large. Obviously, that's an oversimplification, but it was just such a deep honor. And it was also going to the Texas event, such an honor to meet some of these women, Amanda and her husband, such characters, Kristen and Thomas, and just to hug them and to know them as well as to support them through the process of sharing was really incredible. They're a huge inspiration to me personally.

So the whole team, we flew out top of March for South by Southwest. Something Was Wrong was nominated for the second year in a row for Best Crime Podcast at the iHeart Podcast Awards, which take place at South by Southwest. And so when I found out we were nominated again, we work our fucking asses off and we are constantly doing so much heavy shit all the time that

that I really wanted to do something that was fun and also like celebrate. We have to celebrate the wins. And that's something I'm working on in therapy. So this felt like the perfect opportunity. South by Southwest was fantastic. We didn't end up winning, but the award show was also great. Lauren sadly had to fly out that day, that morning, but Lily was able to attend the iHeart Awards with Amy and I. Amy, this was also your first iHeart Awards attending.

What did you guys think of the awards show? It was wild to be a part of it and to be in the room with some of the podcasters and entertainers and creators, including you. I'm constantly in awe of everything that you do for survivors and just for society at large. And that event just sealed it for me. It was such an honor to be there.

I love being able to include you guys in that stuff when I'm able to. We saw Payne Lindsey there. We saw Sabrina from Two Girls, One Ghost. Who else did we see? Andrea from Betrayal, who won the category. Congrats to her. She was lovely.

We saw Andy from the office. We saw Ed Helms. I didn't know what to do. So I was just like, oh my God, hi. And acted like I knew him. You actually said, nice to see you. Oh my God. If you had seen him and he said the same thing back to you and I was like, oh my God, when did you meet him? And you were, he were like, no, no, no. I was convinced that you guys had some fun time back a year ago. Like it was very convincing. Yeah.

Lily looked at me like, holy fuck. But it totally worked. So FYI, if you ever see a celebrity and you don't want to overwhelm them, but you know that they meet enough people that they just play like they know people, that's the way to go.

I had so much fun the previous year at South by Southwest and I had seen how different shows had hosted events similar to this. So I was like, I want to do something like that. So it was kind of our first attempt at doing something like this. Besides season one, we did a live show, but that was a bit different. The stickers that Sarah created and all the flyers and everything she designed, gorgeous.

Lauren also designed a bunch of gorgeous graphics for the event itself. We found this really great place called Vinyl Beauty Bar in Austin, Texas. Shout out to them. They were fantastic. Their team was great. They were so helpful. The venue was awesome. But it's like this black, white and pink Dolly Parton themed space during the day, a salon. And then it has also like a stage. And so they also have evening events, concerts. You can host private events. It's just awesome. And woman owned.

Once I found the space to, I was like, oh, wait, this could really be something. We didn't know exactly what it was going to be, especially because this was our first one. I wanted to make sure that we kept expectations low. It was free and we opened it up on social media for people. If they wanted to register, they could enter to win a ticket. I think we had close to like 100 entries and then we were able to invite 40 people and they were able to bring a plus one.

I think we probably had almost everyone show up from a winner's standpoint. It felt like around 80 people. I don't know, though. It was very vibrant. It was such a good vibe in there. And it was nice to connect with listeners, especially in light of season 23. It was awesome. We got to see Chris

Kristen and Amanda and their husbands showed up. So it was just a perfect time and place and an overall really nice vibe. Yes. And Thomas, who was a longtime listener, which was cool. Yeah, it was so great to meet the survivors. It was crazy meeting Kristen in person. Amy's like, this is Kristen. It just didn't click for me at first. First of all, she looks like a Disney princess in real life.

It's really wild to feel so close to people emotionally, survivors that I get to work with, and then like meeting them in person. I don't know, it's kind of like this out of body experience. It's like this realization that you feel so close to someone. And this is the first time you're physically being in their presence.

and how strange that is, but like in the coolest way possible. This was also like the first time the four of us, our production team, were all in person together. So that's really special and definitely hope to do more things like that in the future. It was on a Sunday afternoon-ish and we had treats and espresso martinis. We got to interact with the listeners. It was incredible. I

I can get really overstimulated in those sorts of environments. I've talked about that before and I did at times, but it was in a good way, like a so happy overstimulated type of way.

I definitely would do it a million times over. It was just so much more intimate getting to like speak to listeners face to face, hear their feedback, hear what landed for them, hear what it meant for them personally. It was really re-energizing, I think, but I really want to hear what you guys thought of it.

It was very surreal. Lily and I were together. She was checking their names and then I was giving people the rundown of what to expect and then launching them into the space. And like a couple of them, after I said, hi, I'm Amy, blah, blah, blah, they were like, Amy B. Chesler? It was an out, like you said, an out of body experience for people to know so much information about myself. They know my whole family history, but it was in like a loving way. It was like, they see me and feel me. It was such a beautiful experience.

space to be existing in for those few hours. And obviously it exists beyond with the community. But I will say one of the things that really, really hit home for me was a survivor came up to me and said,

You know, I loved Something Was Wrong from the get-go. I started in season one. I listened to every season. I connect with every season, but I didn't really know why until I got to season seven. And I realized I had never heard of someone who was a co-victim of familial violence, like a co-victim of murder by someone in the family until I heard your story. And I realized I wasn't alone. And that I'm literally covered in goosebumps in this moment. And in that moment, it just validated why.

I do what I do, why we do what we do, why we do it together.

Everybody we met was amazing. I loved how many couples came. I loved how many friends came. There was like a grocery clerk who was a middle-aged guy who was there with like his young Gen Z coworker because they talk in the break room about something was wrong every week. So when one of them won the contest, they knew instantly who they had to bring with them. And that was really sweet. Also, I was so focused on not messing this up.

I love hosting. My husband and I, we love having people over. Like, we're those people. And I love throwing a party and I love a fucking theme. But I was stressed. I was stressed. I was worried that things were going to go wrong. So I wasn't even thinking about how fucking cool it was until it started happening. And thankfully, I was tapped in enough to like allow myself to enjoy it by the time things were like happening. But people kept coming up and being like, oh my God, Amy's here. Lauren's here. They've heard you guys before.

On the show, sometimes we just don't realize how much people are following. It's just so refreshing to like talk to people that like you. And like the show, because I feel like a lot of the feedback I get, if it does filter down through to me, it's usually like not pleasant stuff.

Nobody's ever like, "Oh, I saw this really nice thing that someone said about you and sends that to me." Like, it's never that. No offense to anybody, but like, it's always like, "Oh, look at this horrible, untrue thing someone said about you." For me, that's what I found re-energizing about it. The people who get it, they get it and it means something different and they understand how it can be and that it's genuine.

It's vulnerable in a way that felt good. People knowing your story, knowing all these secrets that you're embarrassed of, it just puts things into perspective in a whole different way when people support you and they know you in that way. It's such a vulnerable feeling, but such a different type of vulnerable.

Yeah. And it's so lovely, not only getting to see like people show up for y'all, but then also like seeing the survivors and the people who are attending just having their own independent conversations and relating to each other. And that's when it clicked for me. These events aren't even just about us meeting the listeners. It's about the listeners meeting each other. What I kept hearing from people over and over was,

was it just feels so nice to feel like I'm in a safe space. And everybody who was there just had a heart of gold and I just thought it was beautiful. And so I definitely want to do more of them.

Credible Threat is a brand new show that will be launching 7-7-2025. We will be sure to link as soon as the feed is ready so that you can go follow and subscribe. Amy has been working alongside myself producing this first season of Credible Threat, and she has been there for all of the incredible interviews. So I'd love to hear from you, ABC, what it's been like to be a part of it.

It has been pretty incredible to be a fly on the wall for some very powerful conversations with credible experts from fields across all true crime and have decades of experience and or an immersion in the field. It's been really, truly incredible to watch Lenora and Chris work. They're both credible experts in many fields. They're just two really warm, open, honest, humorous,

humans who are really varied. Most of the people that they've interviewed, what's really struck me is that they've been witnesses to true crime history in America. Dr. Chris Mohandy is a forensic psychologist and Lenore Clare is not only a stalking survivor herself, she's also an advocate. You may have heard her on Something Was Wrong previously. She's been on What Came Next.

They bring decades of experience and so do all of their guests, people who have worked on cases like the Night Stalker, OJ Simpson, a

A lot of cases that listeners are going to recognize and the interviews really provide new insights into those cases as well as what goes on for the experts behind the scenes. I was going to say another striking thing that makes it so unique is it's really interesting to not only have these credible experts, but like experts in every facet of true crime you could imagine.

And we are hosting an event, shameless plug, July 13th at the St. Felix in Hollywood. There's two locations, so be clear. The one in Hollywood, St. Felix, Hollywood. We are having a credible threat launch party. The vibe is Hollywood goth, which is very like Lenora and Dr. Chris. It's the perfect space. So if anybody wants to plan their outfits accordingly, that's the vibe.

It is going to be invite only, but we will be opening up some tickets to listeners. So definitely follow us on Instagram at Something Was Wrong Podcast for those kinds of announcements. That will be where we're posting like the links to sign up or register and things like that. That's where Queen Lauren shines and does her social media goddess work. And she makes sure that everybody has the information they need.

and also helps coordinate details when needed. We're really excited that venue is also much larger. It is free, but we are asking people if they would like to donate to two incredible nonprofit organizations that are both featured on the first season of Credible Threat with Lenora Clare and Dr. Chris Mohandy. More about that soon. But the event will be benefiting Tending the Garden.

as well as Transdo Task Force, both which are featured on Credible Threat Season 1. Amy, can you talk a little bit more about that since you have been producing Credible Threat episodes and were there for the interview? Yeah. Transdo Task Force is a phenomenal nonprofit organization that helps support investigations into missing persons cases specifically related to the trans community.

They are genetic genealogists. They also work to educate police organizations and better serving the trans community.

They've created the first registry for missing people that are trans, but also they've created an initiative called If I Go Missing. They've created a registry in essence of trans people who would like to register with their own information in the way that they'd like to present in the media or in efforts to find them in the event that they go missing, which is just an

awful reality that the community needs such targeted support in that manner. But it is a reality that missing persons don't often get resources allocated and marginalized communities are often left to fend for themselves. The founders of Trans Do Task Force are incredible. The interview is incredible. Tending the Garden is another amazing nonprofit organization created by Jimenica Eborn, who is a multi-crime survivor. She's a co-victim of murder and

and sexual assault survivors. So she has created this nonprofit. Lenora is also a member of the board and that organization serves marginalized communities of color in terms of sexual assault survivorship and resources. Thank you so much.

The actual artwork of the show you'll see is by Mona Edwards. She's a prolific courtroom illustrator who has sat in court and drawn these gorgeous pieces of art on some of the most devastating and infamous trials, especially when it comes to Los Angeles trials.

I got her book as soon as Lenora told me about her. And I love the book. And I think her artwork is just so incredible. And so I was like, do you think she'd do like a drawing for the artwork for the show? And Lenora's like, it doesn't hurt to ask. So listeners, especially those who are interested in criminology, victimology,

science, true crime, will be definitely big fans of this show. So again, that starts 7-7-2025, and you can join us and celebrate its launch on July 13th, 5 to 8 p.m., St. Felix, Hollywood.

Moving forward, some other exciting updates that we had recently, Amy highlighted on the What Came Next episode we did with the survivor who we're calling Dara. At that point, the Senate bill, Senate Bill 151 in Indiana, that Dara has been working with various representatives on, it finally passed in the Senate on 4-30-2025.

Senate Bill 151 became public law, and this law specifies that a prosecution for rape as a level three felony that is barred by the statute of limitations may still be brought within 10 years from the discovery of DNA evidence. Dara has been instrumental in working with the representatives to help author this bill, support this bill. It was a very exciting day for Dara.

us here at Broken Cycle Media, and we just couldn't be happier for her. Dara is just amazing. She is a survivor who was on a mission to change the law in her state. Unfortunately, she did run into a few roadblocks. It was heard by the House. The last we had heard from her was it had not been carried through. The bill wasn't dead.

It's easy to become deterred in the system. There are roadblocks and there are hurdles at times, but she kept at it and here we are. It passed. All of her hard work came to fruition, which is symbolic of the mission of this show and the Something Was Wrong community and everything you do with Broken Cycle Media, taking our experiences and making change, whether it's directly legal change or it's awareness through listenership.

She has just been such an inspiration to me. Recently, we found out that Malik's law that we were discussing for season 23 in Texas, it did not get passed through in the House that session, which is not uncommon, even though obviously it can be very disappointing and discouraging for those who are working on these bills. I was able to share with them because of Dara's perseverance and what she's accomplished. We've had other survivors who have been met with these obstacles in the past.

they've stayed persistent. And sometimes it's a matter of changing some of the language, doing a little bit more research. There's different reasons. So again, just incredible work on her part, her family's part. And it was just really fun getting to see that from a distance. I hope we see more of it. Another incredible legislative win for survivors was the Take It Down Act that just recently passed. This was a bipartisan law. I

meaning both sides of the aisle supported this law. It's now illegal to knowingly publish or threaten to publish intimate images without a person's consent, including AI-created deepfakes. It also requires websites and social media companies to remove such material within 48 hours of notice from a victim. The platforms must also take steps to delete duplicate content.

Many states have already banned the dissemination of sexually explicit deep fakes or, quote, revenge porn or non-consensual pornography. But the Take It Down Act is a rare example of federal regulators imposing on Internet companies, which is something we have been fighting for. This is just such a huge win for survivors. So many nonprofits that we work with and follow were ecstatic to see this passed in

I hope we see more legislation like this that protects our citizens in the ways that tech companies need to be responsible for these products that they're packaging and they're selling to people, whether it be dating apps, social media, pornography sites, etc. They need to also be responsible for the harm that can be caused. And I think this is a great first step for many survivors. Switching gears to Something Was Wrong case updates,

Season seven featured Amy's story and her continued fight for justice has been spoken a lot about on both Something Was Wrong and What Came Next. Unfortunately, Amy's fight for justice truly doesn't end. And if you followed her story, you've witnessed that in real time over these last few years and what she's had to continue to fight for. Any updates you could share with us, Amy, about where things stand?

Hearing wise, are you having to go back to court anytime soon? Anything you feel comfortable sharing? Yes, thank you. I want to highlight the fact that it does feel like a continued battle for justice, but it's also become like a continued battle to lift the veil on the proceedings of the criminal justice system, how it actually happens and how victims are forced to navigate it virtually almost forever.

Listeners, I think the last time they got an update on what came next was it was a sentencing hearing where my brother received 36 years to life. There'll never be enough words to express my gratitude for your presence there that day and your continued presence and support. But

About five days before my 40th birthday, December 20-something, 2024, I did receive an update saying that he was up for parole in June of 2025, which was a huge gut punch. I didn't really understand...

He was sentenced to 36 years to life for new charges, but he's still up for parole for my mom's murder. And people do a double take when I say that because they don't realize that this is the process I'm stuck in. As much as I have comfort in knowing he's not going to get out of prison per se, I don't want him to ever be paroled for my mom's murder. If he is, then I'm not considered his victim in the system and I won't be notified if he gets released.

There are certain privileges victims are given, resources that I don't want to go away ever. And so I am going to fight for him to never be paroled. And then I received another notice not too long ago saying that unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, I have a very layered view of this action, but he has postponed his parole hearing for a third time. So

That 2025 hearing in June that he was supposed to have is now scheduled for sometime in 2030. So that is a good thing to a certain degree. There's five more years of his sentence for my mom's murder. But on the flip side, I do just have to kind of like persist in this system. And I have to keep writing my victim impact statement for five more years and psyching myself up. Just a wild, wild ride.

Is there anything that listeners can do to support at this juncture? Thank you for asking that. I still have a petition to keep him unparoled for my mom's murder. I'm sure we can provide the link in the episode notes. If anyone hasn't signed it yet over the last several years, I would really appreciate a signature.

And if you haven't shared it, a share really goes a long way. I do provide those signatures every time I go to a parole hearing. And every time I go, it's a little larger. And all of those names make a huge impact. They're deeply appreciated.

Thank you so much for sharing. You never cease to amaze me, Amy. Hadassah is so lucky to have a daughter like you and who continues to fight for her. And it's just a tragic reminder of how survivors fight. We'd never really get to rest and how these things really fracture and change us forever. That's a really sad, uncomfortable truth, but it is the truth and one we can help one another carry together.

I just appreciate you and we'll certainly do whatever we can to support along the way. So if you haven't signed the petition, please do. We will link it in the episode notes. Switching gears, we also have a kind of non-update update for season 18, Caitlin Braun, for those who are following. As a reminder, Caitlin Braun was originally sentenced for faking pregnancies and fraudulently receiving doula care. She was originally given house arrest.

And then, as we predicted, she reoffended within months of being on house arrest. So she was arrested and she pled guilty in January to two counts of obtaining by false pretense services under $5,000 and two harassment-related charges. This is a long-standing pattern for Ms. Braun, the assistant crown attorney Simon McNaughton told the court in January.

According to the CDC, Braun previously pled guilty to 21 separate charges, including fraud, indecent acts, false pretenses, and mischief after pretending to have experienced pregnancies and stillbirths between June 2022 and February 2023. She was then sentenced to two years of house arrest as requested by both the defense and the Crown, and despite a judge's concern that she would reoffend, she did.

Her latest hearing was on May 15th, 2025. But essentially, the joint submission that was presented at this hearing suggests that the time left on Braun's two-year house arrest should be served in custody, followed by an additional three years due to her reoffense.

They said they'll consider the submissions and they set a June 9th date where they will potentially sentence Braun. Again, a kind of a non-update update. But what I know is that the survivors deserved better and they should have done a better job sentencing the first time. I think it was really apparent to everyone that Caitlin was going to reoffend.

And unfortunately, that proved to be true. So we will continue to bring updates as we can. But it sounds like Caitlin Braun will be doing some time in prison.

Moving forward, a happy update related to season 20. After South by Southwest, Lauren and I both were able to fly to Iowa this past April to see Monica marry her sweetheart, Kenton. It was so beautiful. I was completely honored to be invited.

It was just wonderful being together again with the survivors and for such a happy special occasion. Lauren, I'd love to hear from you what your thoughts were on the day and the weekend.

Monica and Kenton are such a beautiful couple. And it was just so nice to see a happy ending come of it. I'm glad that we were able to be there for that. It was nice to see everybody, but I did not enjoy being in Iowa. I was going to ask if it was difficult for you to be back there. I didn't think that it was going to be, but I started recognizing like roads and having flashbacks of when I was there for the first time when Jess picked me up from the airport.

It was strange, very strange. I was scared she was going to pop up at the wedding. I think we've made so many more great memories that kind of just override Jess and her shenanigans. It was a fantastic weekend. And also, I have to say, Des Moines downtown, I thought it was so cute and lovely and I would totally go back and spend more time there.

We have had some non-update updates. We had a lot of people when we put up on social media asking what questions y'all had for the Q&A. A lot of questions about where things are at with Jessica and if any charges have been brought. Do you want to speak to that piece, Lauren, in terms of any further conversations you've had with police or any further action that's been taken?

Nothing has been done. We've went around in circles with a few different people and haven't gotten the results that we wanted or really just even the attention from police that could really benefit her and her family. I know we don't want to talk about the son, but that's a main thing that we're really concerned about. So there hasn't been any updates in terms of legal proceedings.

And just so everybody's aware, we often report things to like agencies, like let's say child protective services on cases. And we're not always going to like go out and advertise that. We are prioritizing the safety of children. And so that's why we aren't going to get into a lot of details about that element of all of this, but it is a huge concern. And I

And I think that's obvious just from what we've shared already about Jessica, that she's an unfit mother, in my opinion. As we shared in one of our previous update episodes, there was a tragic car accident that took place. And there was a lot of speculation about what caused that car accident, etc. If you want to hear about that, you can go to our previous community update. We'll link it in the episode notes to make it easy to find.

Since then, there hasn't been any traction with the police. I mean, there were some meetings that took place after the season had wrapped, but nothing went anywhere. I think part of it is like our laws are not necessarily caught up to technology and that maybe the police involved don't understand all of the working pieces at play here. But I also think part of it is that...

there was this person that worked at the courthouse that kind of did some shit they weren't supposed to do, which we also talked about on the season. I think he had good intentions, but I think there could have been some civil rights violations that happened, unfortunately, of the survivors. And so I think part of the reason, in my opinion, that some of this isn't being looked into is because they know they made errors on the case. That's my personal opinion. But really disappointing, unfortunately,

And a trend I'm seeing when we're recording seasons and working on cases, it's like the police will be responsive somewhat. But as soon as it's convenient for them, they kind of ghost. And that's really disappointing. And it's something I hear from survivors in a lot of different cases. I feel like we shouldn't have to fight for like basic communication from the person who's allegedly working on our cases. To me, that seems like just common sense.

There was two-year protective orders that were in place for a few of the survivors, and those recently expired, August 2024. And I just think that's important to note because Jessica did attempt to make contact with Lauren

in the last few months. But before that happened, there were some incidents. So essentially what happened is a woman who lives near Jessica started becoming friends with her, felt things were weird, started going down a rabbit hole, found the podcast, and then she went on TikTok and like posted about it. It blew up really fast. I spent hours with her interviewing her about things.

And what was concerning about it is what this person was alleging was that Jessica was still using some of the, quote, characters, these fake people that she used with the survivors and was trying to introduce them to this woman. That was obviously very upsetting for all of us to consider.

Then Jessica was like in the comments being generally awful as she usually is. And that woman's TikToks ended up going down. But before that went down, then another big TikToker picked it up. And so this podcast essentially started circulating again. People started listening to it again. And I think somehow on planet Jessica Pauly, she took all of that happening to think that she should then reach out to Lauren.

I try to put myself in other people's shoes and I consider their perspective as part of like who I am as a person. And I have tried so hard to like wrap my head around the way her fucking brain works. And it is hard to understand. It is deeply hard for me to understand because if it's me and somebody has accused me of stalking them, they have sought a do not contact order through the courts and

The courts have then said, yeah, don't contact this person for two years. And then you think I'm just going to like casually text this person. I just don't get it in any capacity. Like

for your own self-preservation, why you would continue to try to contact people who call themselves survivors of you or people they're connected with. If anybody has requested over and over for you to not contact them, don't contact them. Even just looking at her actions and what she did to me, if you use common sense, I don't want to hear from you ever. No one would want to hear from someone after that.

Nothing about what you've shared ever was giving, please reach out and act like we can be friends or have a conversation about this. I think it's just important to highlight, again, the survivors in season 20, your journey is not over. You have to continue to navigate this, including sometimes navigating communication from your abuser.

Yeah, I blocked her other number. So she has a new phone, she texts me. But looking back on it, it looks like she texted me on December 27. So I'm wondering if it had something to do with the holidays. And she still wanted to be that person that ruined the holidays for me like Brody did before. I don't feel like it's necessary to read the whole text. But I will just say like, it's not taking any accountability. She's basically thanking me for the role that I played in getting her help. I

I don't care how you're doing. Honestly, like you're not apologizing for the things that you did. It's not genuine. I can't wrap my head around her reasoning either. And,

And I was pissed because I was like, of course, Jessica is going to try and do this over the holidays because that's such a Jessica move to try and ruin everything. I think you, Lauren, pointed out that it seemed like it had been written by AI and it was determined to be like mostly AI. Am I wrong? Yeah, I mean, there's no way to know for sure. But I just looked up through ChatGPT and it said that it was pretty much guaranteed that it was written by ChatGPT. But even just knowing her as a person and knowing how she talks,

This is not like her at all. I mean, it sounds like an apology letter. Like, I want to express my heartfelt gratitude. And then most importantly, she sent me a song afterwards, just like Brody used to do. So creepy. Yeah, they didn't respond to any of it, but there was just no accountability at all. I wouldn't assume that her lawyer would tell her to reach out, but maybe she caught wind of potential happenings in the future.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because it has to do with the text that she sent one of Bree's friends, who was also a friend of Jessica's before all this came out. So Jessica has this close friend who we called on the podcast Bobby Sue. Bobby Sue claimed to be a victim of Jessica's, but it's unclear. And they're still friends and very much involved. Unlike the other survivors who have supported the other survivors of Jessica Pauly, this particular survivor is

has instead taken up for Jessica Pauly, so to speak, and been quite nasty, to be honest, to the survivors. People have put this together because I don't think Jessica has a lot of friends that she's probably interacting with on TikTok. Essentially, some screenshots were sent to us of Bobby Sue posting something about catfishing and like, can a girl just have hobbies?

And Jessica, like responding in the comments, laughing it up, like this is the funniest shit ever. And so it's just for the survivors, I think felt like confirmation that she's not sorry, even though she's like trying to send Lauren these AI texts about how she's sorry and with great gratitude. Then why are you fighting people in the comments on TikTok? Then why are you laughing it up with Bobby Sue about this really, really painful thing that you did to a lot of fucking people? And.

and honestly ruined your own life with your own behavior, it doesn't add up.

Christy Boschman, she goes by that documentary girl on Instagram and I believe TikTok. She shared about the season specifically and I felt very validated because she's like, all I do is watch true crime documentaries and this shit is the most insane catfishing shit I've ever heard. And so it was just great to have her support. She has a big platform and she also shared the petition. So we've been getting a little bit more traction on that. I think it's important to share that because then recently, May 9th,

After getting no response from Lauren, Jessica Pauly reaches out to Bree's friend on May 9th. She says, Hi, I've been meaning to reach out for a while now, but I wasn't quite sure how to start. I know things ended on a really hard note, and I completely understand why you stepped back.

I want to say upfront that I take full accountability for my actions in the situation with Bree. I've spent a lot of time reflecting and I carry deep regret for the part I played in how things unfolded. You played 37 parts, okay? Back to the text. That being said, I'm in a better place now, growing, healing, and trying every day to make better choices. While I know things can't go back to how they were,

especially with Bree. I've been thinking about you a lot and what your friendship meant to me. You were such an important part of my life and my son's too. He still brings you up from time to time and it reminds me of how much you meant to both of us. If there's any space in your heart to reconnect, I'd love to talk and catch up. I completely understand if you're not in a place for that, but I wanted to at least open the door and let you know how much I miss having you in my life. Take care, her name.

No matter what, I wish you nothing but good things. So obviously this was really upsetting to Bree. And Bree and her friend did give us permission to talk about this and read the text messages. But I think we all were, again, just like shocked at the audacity. Lauren, I don't know if you want to share any feelings you had about this similar text. It makes me upset to read it because she's weaponizing her son.

And it's just not fair to him. It just feels very disingenuine to me. And he's just been through so much already. It's sickening to know that she's just showing her cards and she's showing that she hasn't changed at all by sending that message. I mean, yeah, her saying the hand that I played in it, she she created it. She played every part. She was the puppet master. Yeah.

It's upsetting. And now Brie has to deal with this. And then she's sharing it with the other survivors and they're having to like think about, is she going to try and reach out to me next? It felt like she was clearly trying to like use this friend to like deliver a message to Brie. I do want to read, if you're comfortable, Lauren Brie's friend's response.

Yes, please read that. Okay. So Bree's friend wrote,

And what did you do in return? You completely psychologically fucked them for life. You are fully capable of making friends without catfishing them, as that's how we became friends. So stating that you did any of that to make friends is a full-blown lie. You have zero remorse per the things I've seen via social media. The things you said to them as, quote, Brody is fucked up.

Brie and the other girls cried so many nights over, quote, him. Over him being an asshole. Him threatening suicide. And it was you the whole time. You were there being two-faced, rubbing their back over the heartbreak. It was you. You can't deny any of it as we all witnessed the true person you are. Fake. You have no remorse and you just move on to the next victim. You caused all

all of the hurt and that is a fucked up thing to do as a quote friend you literally enjoyed manipulating people as you have done it for years mic drop it just makes me so happy that's a satisfying response oh it was satisfying the group chat was on fire we were like we are not worthy

So then her ass comes back and she's like, I won't argue with how you feel or try to change your mind. I regret that. I won't bother you again. But basically trying to say like, it's so hard for me that I'm such a bitch. And then Brie's friend just sends the screenshots of her laughing it up on TikTok about catfishing with Bobby Sue. And she writes,

Somebody who quote takes accountability and quote regrets deeply of the things you've done don't make these kinds of comments. You called your friends pathetic when what's pathetic is the torture you put them through for your own amusement.

Boom. I just have to say, thank God for people like Bree's friend who actually are willing to go to bat for people and say something. Thank God for those types of people. Agreed. We need that. We have to stick together against bullshit. 100%.

I think not enough people are looking into Bobby Sue still being friends with her. I think that's a huge issue of its own. Why are you okay with your friend doing that? And if you listen to the podcast, then you know all the gross, nasty details that she put us through and you're still fine with being friends with her. There's something wrong with you. Next time on Something Was Wrong.

What she claimed was that she found out Jessica was catfishing her because she had been sent some flowers. She called the florist and she demanded to know whose name was on the credit card. And they said it was Jessica Polly. And that's how she found out.

I think it says a lot that all these people are either meeting with Jess on dating apps or meeting her in person and very quickly Googling her and finding everything. How often do you realistically meet somebody on a dating app and Google them? Some red flag has to go off.

Talking about all these updates, I just can't help but come to all these similarities with them, despite having different methods or things that attract them to perpetuating this abuse. I mean, between Caitlin, Jess and Megan, it's a different kind of the same type of person.

Something Was Wrong is a Broken Cycle Media production created and produced by executive producer Tiffany Reese, associate producers Amy B. Chesler and Lily Rowe, with audio editing and music design by Becca High. Thank you to our extended team, Lauren Barkman, our social media marketing manager, and Sarah Stewart, our graphic artist. Thank you.

Thank you to Marissa, Travis, and our team at WME, Wondery, Jason, and Jennifer, our cybersecurity team, Darkbox Security, and my lawyer, Alan. Thank you endlessly to every survivor who has ever trusted us with their stories. And thank you, each and every listener, for making our show possible with your support and listenership.

Special shout out to Emily Wolfe for covering Gladrag's original song, You Think You, for us this season. For more music by Emily Wolfe, check out the episode notes or your favorite music streaming app. Speaking of episode notes, there every week you'll find episode specific content warnings, sources and resources. Until next time, stay safe, friends.