S7 E7: WCN Presents: [Amy B. Chesler] SWW S7 Updates
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What came next is intended for mature audiences. only. Episodes discuss topics that can be triggered, such as emotional, physical and sexual violence, suicide and murder. I am not a theriere, nor am I A doctor.

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A, E, B, chesser is an award winning writer, producer, victim advocate and survivor of domestic violence from calias is california. SHE and I first met at a writing conference in two thousand and eighteen. IT wasn't until we discovered our mutual passion for creating ethical, responsible, true crime content that we got much closer.

Eventually, SHE shared about the abuse SHE and her mother hates faced at the hands of amy's brother in season, and seven of something was wrong. Since then, her content has been seen on I, D, T, V. Evil lives here, chicken soup for the soul, scary mommy and many more major media outlets.

Her experiences after being on something was wrong, is a piece of what compelled us to create what came next. When we first began discussing the creation of the show, we knew IT was important to keep the integrity of something was wrong style and mission, while still allowing our guests to tell their stories as they choose. With that said, we also felt IT was important for amy to update our listeners first on what came next for her over the last very commotion ous year and a half of her advocacy. Thank you so much for listening.

I just want to start off by saying a massive thank you to you and the something was wrong community for allowing me to share my story on season seven. I don't think people realized that that that was only released a year and a half ago or so, and so much has changed in that last year. Before I go into that, I really do want people to keep in mind my experiences last year or so inspired us to create what came next spoil alert.

By of the way, for anyone who hasn't listened to something was wrong. Season seven, my brother murdered my mother on september twenty fifty, two thousand, that happened to become the national murder victims. Remember this day in all of america? Coincidentally, I didn't find that out until about twenty twenty.

Maybe, I guess the algorithm sent me other posts about the day, and I realized that my mom's murder anniversary, i'm also joined with everybody in the country whose lost to love one to murder. I joined in that grief that become even more fuel in my fire to share my story. So just updated on the last year.

Let's begin with when something was wrong. Season seven came out. IT was released, I believe, in february two thousand twenty one. And IT was completed around late march.

That was officially, like the first time I had really publicly, on a grand scale, shared my story all the intricacies of IT. I've written about what i've gone through on my blog. Although IT took me several years to even get to that.

At first I was just talking about grief in parenting. I didn't really have this support to share my full story, to be honest. Eventually I had to free myself of a relationship, maybe a couple of them, that kept assigning me their beliefs.

If you push IT down and you stop talking about IT, IT goes away. The person was marry to wasn't comfortable with me sharing all the time. Once I freed myself from that, I had to get IT out.

Am a writer by nature. I ve always been a reader and a writer. And I love movies, and I love T.

V. I love stories. I love helping people tell their stories. In essence, I had heal first, and then I had to released my story. I knew that about myself.

My degree is in psychology, and because i've done a lot of therapy, I knew that in order to get to that step of really divulging everything, I had to bash in myself with tools and the right people around me. So february of twenty twenty one, something was wrong, was an incredible experience for me. I can't thank you enough, tifany, for opening your heart and your platform to my story.

That was the first really big step. The support that I received was immense. Your community is beautiful, supportive and loving. I think that they have their hearts in the right place when they consume true crime for the most part.

And that just made me feel bashed going into my book release, my book came out April six, twenty twenty one, to be exact. I was greatly received. My first book review ever was for my nights grade english teacher.

I was so touching. I got so many people that found the story because they were friends with mom. They me for writing. Even my dada's brother reached out to me. He was one of those people that I was really worried about receiving our story.

I didn't know how he would feel about how honest I was about my dad, but probably with in the first week of IT being released, he contacted me and said, thank you for writing your story, things that you shared and named like sibling abuse, with something I faced the hands of your dad. And I didn't even know there was a name for IT. So that was so cathos IT was blowingly validating.

And then April sixteen and twenty twenty one, I receive notification of my brother's first spiral hearing. Ten days later, exactly. I received notice that my brother served eighty five percent of his fifteen to life sentence.

He was given the ability to see a and be heard for perl. I was given that notification IT saying, hey, it's coming. I'll give you a date soon.

That perl notification was the largest slap in the face for me. I realized this journey that i'm going on, on sharing and everything. That was just the tip of the iceberg for things.

I realized that this story, quote on, quote, our family history, this situation that i'm stuck in legally, criminally in the media, it's a forever. And that started heating home with that purl hearing. I heard within the next month that August third, twenty twenty one, would be the actual hearing in preparation.

I obviously applied to speak there. I had never been able to be heard before then no victim impact statement. That's another reason why I do all these media interviews, podcast interviews.

And I was sharing our story because I never have been heard in all of this. Mom never got heard. Obviously, before I was approved to speak at the pole board hearing, I got an email a few weeks before saying, hey, you've been approved and I found in an error.

I know that sounds absolutely made up, but I have the receipt. I found that I was approved for the wrong poor board hearing. I caught the error in email and I wrote back to the lawyer, and I was like, excuse me, know that's the wrong inmate.

I don't know that person and they went up, sorry. So I wonder what what have happened if I didn't catch that anyway, the day came August third, two thousand twenty one, and I had to face the man I was on zoom in the middle of cover. The pro hearing itself absolutely the most traumatizing thing outside of my mom's murder and the abuse that I faced beforehand.

It's actually on level with all the abuse that I faced throughout the years. I will give you a run down of the highlights of the Pearl hearing my aunt was with me. Think my mom, sister, my brother is already on the screen talking when I get into the room after maybe ten minutes of technological issues, which was so unnerving and patrimony, to be honest, I get inside the in the chat room, my anted next to me, and I been cleared.

I considered having someone there to record, but I just didn't alive in time. I had to rely and just assume they're recording right off about IT, like this meeting is being recorded. bliss.

I love that. I always love proof. Everything that I go go through.

I just had no idea what proof I needed of that day. They kind of just dig, write IT. And my brother is talking.

They allow him to speak first. So he starts by saying, I came here a bad guy and i've just gotten worse. I've stabbed over ninety more people.

He said, you know, it's good, mostly for money, as if that justified IT. I'm fuming. I'm angry. I'm sad. I can't believe he's allowed to speak first.

I can't believe he's saying these things and he's up proper l so I actually interjected, even if I shouldn't have i've said your body to the worst thing you possibly could you murdered our mother at which point he said, oh, I could do a lot worse and he recited a former address of mine, which means he obviously has kept tabs on me somehow he said, I could have your whole family killed, which was shocking and gutting. I started crying. Obviously, the pole board asked me to mute and turn off my camera at that point, which I did not.

They're not to comply. I'm just to make some valid. I I haven't been able to make yet. He also was slicing his stem across his throat over and over and over again, and pulling down his mask and sneering at me camera.

Then he says, I hear there are some things that are happening and covered the poll hearing. This is changing little. I hear that I can postpone my hearing.

Is that possible? They said, yes, you can postpone IT for six months, a year or two years. I believe those were the time frames.

And he said, cool, L, C, N. Two years he starts waving a of letters. He says, I have a little bit support.

I just wanted move up north. I would love to move prisons. They sent suing, you know, why not? Then they said, okay, well, your sister still gets to make a statement.

He said, what do I have illegally listen to IT and they said, no, to my understanding at this point, it's because he postponed is hearing, not because he doesn't have to hear an impact statement. He'll have to hear is gonna hear IT at like sixteen seventeen years after murdering her mother. After he asks if he has to listen to me, he gets up and he walks out.

That was the poor board hearing. I was sobbing, obviously. But the rewards educates knowledge.

Turn to talk. I said, I don't want to. That's crazy. He's not here to listen and they said, we still have to listen.

We will file your statement to get a transcript and he can read IT. I'm assuming he didn't. After that poor hearing, the poll world said off the record quote, yeah, he could have stopped ninety more people. But you know, once you're in prison, people can turn a blind and they let you get away with things like that because no one wants to be the proton pope red.

So i'm left with, oh, okay, well, that's that after my book just came out trying to talk about all this abusive face in the legal system here, I was being reinjected into the abuse and victimised all over again. And my brother was being empowered, moved prisons. IT was just crazy.

I didn't stop promoting my book though. I felt like now I have an for all of these platforms to help me share a lot of the questions I get from producers or people in the media. But what's the urgency of sharing your story? And I think there's plenty of urgency in the process.

I was gifted some more support in the media. I had a wonderful woman from the new york post, reach out and cover our story. I hate saying the word story because it's not a story.

It's our lives. But a lovely woman reached out and SHE covered my book and gave a lovely review. That article LED to a couple more opportunities, including some newspaper articles that supported the book a little bit more and talked about sibling abuse, especially in our community.

And then also, I was gifted the opportunity to be on evil lives here on investigation discovery. That was a very shocking experience for me, too. I think that this is where we started really getting inspired with what came next.

Once I shared my story on evil lives here, that was my largest scale, telling of what we went through you on a show that gets consumed by all kinds of true crime consumers. I say that because people receive victim stories in such a different way, and a lot of people are really responsible with our content, and some people are not evil, lives here. Air at least ten times.

IT also aired all over the world. I had people reaching out from so many different countries, continents. Each time I have an influx of people, I have to start by saying, some people that reach out to me are amazing.

Just like the community in something was wrong. They are supportive. They're saying, thank you for naming something i've gone through, or saying you made me realized what I feared all along is really possible.

This is why i'm doing this. I want to give people tools. I want to be an example, however, in that i'm also example of how cruel consumers can be.

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After evil lives here came out initially, I hopped on all the social media platforms because I, A social media person as well. I like the power behind these things because they can do very good. But in the wrong hand sometimes, or with the wrong active IT can be really harmful, like the people on twitter who were saying, oh my god, h her lips are so chap SHE must be on drugs.

The lights are really harsh. I'm crying. I'm parched and i'm thinking, i'm a mother. I'm a murder victim. How dare you say things like that to me?

How dare you say things like that about anybody really like chap lipps equated drug use. I'll be honest when I read those comments about my lip spin. Chap, guess what I did, I hope to the fuck on to that comment.

And I corrected that person. I said, excuse me, i'm a human. I'm right here. My lips are trapped because the lights are hot. I was crying for a long time, and I was really overwhelmed. And who are you to make a comment about me being a druggie when I, A mother, and I have a career on the line, whether that person's comment is out of nowhere, not or not, no one should be making that comment. No one should be putting that into the universe.

I also found a facebook group where someone in the group was saying my mom had actually known my brother was going to hurt her to a certain degree and got in the life insurance that only protected me. And the woman in this facebook group was sure I had murdered my mom because of the money. He also went on to save SHE hopes that carmo was real.

So I found that comment and actually hoped on IT too. I said, I hope carma is real. Two, number one, number two, I think the fact that you think I would kill my mother, my best friend, for any amount of money, I don't even give if if IT was the little amount that I got or one hundred million dollars, I don't give a fuck what the amount is.

IT would not be worth killing my mother. But the fact that you think I would speaks more volumes about you and your intentions with people and what you need out of them than I do. There was another person who reach out to me an instagram after the show came out and literally wrote to me saying, I am a sadness.

I watched your show and I believe you deserve to die. How somebody stepped away from our episode, thinking that, or having the empty to send that is just insane to me, whether I was just dumb trolling or not, as simple as victim when they don't realize that, like, oh, man, why didn't SHE call the cops? Well, we did.

Like lots, i've even had men reach out to me that watch the show, and then they hit on me. My favorite response was a man that message me, are you married again now? Because I mentioned that I was divorce at the end of evil lives here. I said, no.

He said, okay, so will you go on a date with me as if there are only two options? I M. They're married, taken by someone or free for him.

Like, no, i'm a human, not a person on T, V, and not a character. This is not a story. This is me, and I have choices. Another thing that happened is that there is somebody who is making a fake account of me, and they've actually created relationships with men that have devoted their time.

And I think some of the money, in order to be in a great relationship with me and I was not even IT, was somebody who is cat fishing them using my persona because they know people feel for me i'm in this vulnerable state of sharing about murder and they're taking advantage of that. It's pretty fucking sick on the same side of the coin. Facebook and instagram refuses to verify me.

So these accounts just keep popping up. These people keep victimizing other people by using my name. And that's what makes me totally fuck and sick because i'm trying to be a victim advocate.

People are just overall kind of careless with their consumption of true crime. And I think that's because a lot of true crime is relatively careless. At times i've, I like evil lives here, was responsible with the way they told my story.

For the most part, I kept calm to act with the producer. I really adore her SHE. Let me even film a little update on the hearing, which meant a lot to me because then people are like a gosh, I am going to find her and i'm onna.

Sign a petition if there is one out there. That was another thing that I did was my kind of leveraged all of this attention for a petition that I finally started a month or so ago to continue with the updates. Even after all of this, I received an email, two emails, actually, in the last several months about my brothers being moved prisons.

So when he requested that move, he was in that move twice over. Actually, when I hit me and I saw that email, IT was A C upside the head. I'm getting a notification.

He's being moved prisons. And i'm thinking, this is not fucking right. The weeky wheel gets the Grace.

What can I be doing? The proof board, I feel, should have educated me on what I could do with that threat. But if they're not, I Better.

That's one thing I learned through my guests. And what came next? I've had the beauty of recording with some really powerful people and some people that just didn't take no for an answer sometimes.

So I reached out to the prison that he's wanted to find out some more information about the station in life. Could I file something? Give me some help, at least maybe next time there's a poor hearing, I can be media at that and record IT myself.

Let's do this. What am I gonna to bash on myself? IT took me many calls, to be honest, to hear back from the investigative services unit from the prison.

Many calls like I was calling day after day after day after day, leaving messages, the people were, say, oh, well, he said he'd call you back. Bb, but he pull you back. Never did they should be advocating for me and filing something for a death threat.

That same day, I actually spoke to somebody in the investigative services unit. Once I told people that I am gonna be fAiling to be media next peral hearing, and i'm going to record at myself. Things shifted a little bit.

People started advocating for me more. It's just shocking how our system work sometimes. Finally, I found somebody at the person who, ironically enough, for name is Karen.

Karen was finally like, you know what, i'm sick of hearing all this should words exactly? Not with that anger towards me, but he was, I hear you. This is not fair.

I'll tell you this. I highly debt. Your brother will get out.

You should keep doing everything you're doing. You have to write all the letters. You have to file everything. But just see, you know, your brothers actually under investigation for attempted murder. Right now on ym people, I found out that he was up for attempted murder.

That's exactly virtually fifteen years to the day of my momma's murder, which was getting and shocking to find out he was confirmation. I had a feeling I knew this about my brother. I had always hoped that maybe prison had been rehabilitated.

Him IT wasn't clearly, it's just been an experience. So at this very moment, i'm actually filing something against him for that additional death threat. Hopefully something will happen before the powl hearing he has.

I'm trying to do all this now and really make myself safer stepping into that parole hearing because I didn't realize something before. All of this leg of our criminal justice journey. This shit doesn't end, goes on forever.

It's kind of always, ever changing as well. The laws are changing. People are getting out. People are going in. Just everything is changing. And so the healing and the process of getting through IT is always changing too, unless somebody y's got hundred twenty years in prison. And sometimes, as will hear, so many people had the comfort of a sentence and then didn't.

And all of this, I really just came to realize how media can be used IT was shocking for me to find the intersection of justice and media. If there is something happening, then the media can cover us more, and justice will even be kicking in more. I'm finding in my experiences that the media and our criminal justice system are often leased together.

I think that the way people receive our stories in the true crime sphere is heavily affected by the way these stories are told. A lot of productions like to put this nice, neat little bow on things they love for people that are consuming this story to feel like I can't happen to that. And that is all over.

There is a safety in that story telling, or they're gLori fy the perpetrator and they're telling us why he did IT. As much as we need to know why people do things, what the warning signs are and how we can Better equipped ourselves in the future, I think that only a portion of the story of any story, one of my guests has some ingrat lian, he said more n. Jeffs, the leader of the F L D S.

Church, who often these documentaries are about, he's the villain of the story, just a small portion of the story. We, the victims, from my perspective, Carry the valuable lessons, but they're getting lost in the content. Many of the documentary of the capable in highlighting all of these aspects of what IT takes to really survive.

After all, all that comes next for us, I think the true crime space has to change. IT took me thirteen years ago. My story out. I wanted to heal. Peeling gave me the ability to consume me contact again. I am a fan of the genre of true crime because I think it's important my mom and I will write a lot of true crime. I think that I took a long pause because of the trauma I went through, and the side of that I had to face consistently and stances something .

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New customers, month only taxes. Exec, give A B C detail. So when I finally was able to get the story out and I healed enough, I was able to consume true crime content again. Watch the documentaries, listen to other people's stories. IT was a comment actually from a something was wrong fan that said to me, I actually thought I was really sweet.

They said to me something like, I think what you're doing is important when you you're gona try to help other people tell their stories and I thought, wu, I might have to be a good space for that too. I have to be done talking about my shit to help other people talk about their shit in a responsible and thoughts way. Otherwise i'll be too trigger.

So finally, being in that space to consume stories, I saw all the holes. I saw the documentaries that gave things from the perpetrators perspective. I saw the documentaries try to glorify the perpetrator. I saw documentaries that gave half a second of important people's stories that need to be their experiences, need to be heard. And then I saw really great documentation or documentaries that I needed more of just because they were so powerful.

And that's what LED us to create what came next with all of those pieces of two crime and our experiences coming to the light as more victims share their experiences in these documentaries, I had to share these people's aries. I had to get some of people's perspectives on their journey from the back end, meaning how did sharing their story in the media really affect them? I said, IT took me fourteen years to heal, but most people don't have that luxury, right? Most people have to pursue legal things while pursuing things in the media just to get justice.

Meanwhile, they're trying to heal the same time. And I just think that these people are fucking amazing. That's the lesson from true crime that we need to be taking away all the time where people were victims.

We've gone through hell and we go through hell, even more hell. Some of us sharing our story. All of that needs to be honored and recognized so we can heal that.

Note that I got from that supporter saying when you're going to help other people story, I didn't see IT as like a you're not doing what you should be doing now. It's more of like you could help people, victims of all types of crimes or situations. These story that we're gna share IT on what came next are incredible.

They're all very different. Their experiences are different. But at the heart of the mall is that mechanism of coercive control that we need to be acknowledging and knowing how to survive after.

Some of these people that share their stories are going to be shocked by the things that they've gone through in the legal system, probably even more shocked by the things we've gone through in the media, in the court of public opinion. But the first step to all of this is awareness. We need to be able to tell that last piece of the story to make legal change, to make emotional change, to keep this trend of making society Better. I'm really, really, really excited to share this show with you all because, to be honest, it's a piece of my healing, too.

I love that what came next will continue broken cycle media's intention of bringing survivor stories to the forefront and uplifting and amplifying survivors voices, hearing about their stories directly from them. And I love so much that we are building this sister podcast to something was wrong together, and I can't wait to see how many survivor stories get told through but came next and how we continue the mission together.

I just thank you so so much for all your hard work and how much thought and care you have put into these episodes. You've done an incredible job. I am so thankful. I know you have given a hundred and ten percent, and you care so deeply about the survivors, their stories and your approach and telling them. So thank you so much.

I love you. Thank you. Tiffany E, I really, really love you. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode.

What happens after the experiences of true crime survivors have been shared with the world? Does the media truly capture, all entails to survive such tragedy in the public eye? What comes after the convictions are in the cameras stop rolling and the court of public opinion has spoken.

Can sharing our stories lead to justice? And is there are ever really justice? These questions and many more are answered on the new true crime document series podcast what came next co created and produced by something was wrong, Tiffany race with host winning rider, victim advocate and true crime survivor A E.

B. chesser. This season, on what came next, you'll hear first hand accounts and behind the scenes insights about what came next for survivors of some of the world's most infamous crimes, such as elisa wall of keep sweet, pray and obey.

So much has been told about warn jeff and the horse inside of the cold. A lot hasn't been shown of life after and what IT really takes to adapt to cobo .

ballots from our father. I shouldn't have to pipe a part of myself because i'm not ashamed of how I came here on the earth rung nacton berg of dirty money. This conversation is only the second conversation i've had on IT, and it's only the second conversation where someone didn't offer me money.

I didn't feel like IT was a moral thing for me to benefit off of the backs of people that were defrauded, the vows. Sarah edmonson, we woke up. We figured out what was going on enough to the york times to read article about IT call your laundry from a murder in mansfield.

I'm trying to answer a question that has haunted me my entire life. Why did you murder my mother? Dirty john's tera newall.

There's all these people that don't believe me, basically screw you. IT happened. I'm going to tell my story and i'm not going shame for IT.

P. J. Maston from the secrets of the IT was very trigger ing, really hard to watch. And every week we have to tune in to see what we said, charcot laws of the most hated man on the internet, whether IT was media, politicians, bond force, meta, ordinary people. Everybody was blaming the vet dms.

So I ended up calling the FBI coa Johnson from the housewife and the shot shocker will continue that healing process even up to now where she's played guilty. That's another step to healing. And coming to a point peace with myself, you'll hear how incredible survivors find purpose in adversity and how they're leveraging the spotlight light to a licit social change.

Subscribe now to what came next wherever you get your podcasts. What came next to a broken cycled media production co produced by amy b. Chesler and Tiffany race?

If you'd like to help support what came next, you can leave us a positive review, support our sponsors, or follow broken cycle media on instagram. At broken cycle media, check out the episode notes for sources, resources and to follow our guests. Thank you again for listening.

If you like something was wrong, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining wondering plus in the wonders y APP or on apple podcast, prime members can listen. Add free on amazon music before you go tell us about yourself by filling out a short service at wondering dot com flash survey.

They say hollywood is where dreams are made, a seductive city where many flocked to get rich, be adored and capture america's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune and lives can disappear in an incident when TV producer roy rain was found dead in a canyon near ala in one thousand nine hundred eighty three, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was li j. Ops, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the holly with a together, they were trying to break into the movie industry, but things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash when missing from wunder comes a new season of the hit show hollywood crime, the cotton club murder, follow hollywood and crime, the cotton club murder on the wonder APP. Or wherever you get your podcast, you can bge all episodes of the cot club r early and add free right now by joining wondering plus.