Secret Lives of Toasty Wives with Jessi Ngatikaura: Thursday, June 5th, 2025
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It's the top. It's Jackson. It's your favorite show. The fast five things you need to know. We'll start your day off swirly. It's the toast.

they sound amazing welcome back to the toast i am joined by jessie from secret lives of mormon wives today and this is the episode that i think everyone's been waiting for that i've been waiting for because i've been bursting with secret lives of mormon wives thoughts since i watched it two weeks ago but we never did an official recap because claudia and i were on break so your job here today is so important welcome jessie

and a toaster. Thank you. Yes, this is a dream come true for me. I love you guys. I've been listening to you every day for two years. Like you're part of my daily routine. So it's so weird to be here. Oh my God, that is so fun. We knew you were a toaster because you are often spotted wearing merch on your Instagram. And like sometimes you'll use our sounds and like people send it to us and they're so excited. People are always tagging you guys like she's wearing your merch. I'm like, no, like it's a big deal for me, not for them. Like I love them. No, and I just want everyone to know the connection was established long ago and like

We are proud. - Did you know I was supposed to go on Good Guys first? - When? - I was supposed to, 'cause I met Josh at an event in September. - Okay. - And I was scheduled to go on, so they were like, "You can reschedule." And we tried and it just didn't work out, so I'm kinda glad I got this one first, though. - This was meant to be.

Sorry, good guys. You hate to see it. You got us first. I just, I'm so sad for you that it didn't work out. But here you are today. We have such a fun show because we need to talk about Secret Lives of Mormon Wives season two, which I think for the first time in history, we had a better season two than season one, even though season one was a cultural shift. Yes, which is crazy because yeah, usually it's like...

I thought it was going to be a flash in the pan. Like season one did so well, how can we live up to that? No, like two was nuts. - Did you guys feel pressure going into season two? What was the energy like?

I didn't feel pressure. I feel like it all happened so fast. Like season one came out, we were promoting it. And then three weeks later we were filming too. So I actually don't feel like we even had time to process it. Oh, that's so good. Yeah, it was good. And our, our friend group is a real friend group. So like our dynamic continues even when the cameras are off. So it's not like it was like, okay, cameras are up. Let's put on a show. It was like a just

continuation of our lives. - That's where other shows suffer when you can tell they don't hang out in the off season, they need to get back together. It takes a few weeks to drum up drama, but like you guys, cameras went up and now we need to get caught up on everything that happened in the past few months. - That's what scares me about having time off with our show. Like CMA's drama that happened while the cameras were down.

So like she can't go Taylor can't go away for one night. No, she can't let her life alone like keeps us, you know, afloat. But yeah, it's crazy how much drama happens like even now like things just never slow down. No, it's so good. Do you guys all have this mentality of like, we are giving everything to this show like

we're not going to hold back because I feel like that's how it comes off. Like people aren't too precious about like not wanting to be liked. They're like, this is, we have the show, like let's make the most of it. Yeah. I think the difference with our show is if you look at most like housewives or anyone on reality, they didn't have a following before they built it after. And we went in kind of like having followings, being influencers, we're kind of used to just putting it all out there. So I think we just kind of like continued that into it. I think that

No, and also it like helps with the success of the show after the season because then like viewers can go to your Instagram. There's so much there on your TikToks and feel like they're keeping up with you until we get next. Like we're constantly fed. It's a perfect formula for a show. And it's funny because I see so many comments like you're just doing this to get attention for the show. Like all this drama online. And I'm like, genuinely, you guys, it's real. Like it's embarrassing to admit that, but like it's real. No, the drama online is...

After I finished season two, I needed more. Like I seriously went through withdrawals. I messaged you that I'm depressed. It's over. Like I can't think about anything else. So like I started like watching drama videos of being like, well, Jesse commented about Demi saying this and that. And it's like every single day there's new information like that. Now I've sort of weaned myself off of being addicted to the drama. And now I'm just waiting for season two, part two.

I don't know exactly. I know that we got renewed for 20 episodes and that's what we've filmed and 10 came out. So the next 10 are coming soon. Okay. But I have an exclusive for you. Do you want it? I would love an exclusive. So we actually filmed a reunion and it's coming July 1st. So it's soon. When did you film it? It was before the season came out. So that's what sucks is we didn't see like everything that unfolded. We lived it. Yeah. But like we did a lot of press in the reunion before we saw it, which is kind of hard. But did you see the episodes?

No. So you didn't get to see what people said in their confessionals. And you also didn't get to see how the audience reacted because you'd be like, well, yeah, I'm actually even madder. Now, like sometimes people rile you up and you're like, well, yeah, I was right. Well, like one of my biggest regrets is I had no idea like while filming what Jen was going through. So I've gotten a lot of backlash about being mean to Jen, which is totally understandable. But I had no idea. Like New Orleans, when she sent us that video was the first time I realized it. And that's when I started to like

Okay, shift my mindset. - Yeah, let's back off. - Yeah, but I wish I would have known at the time or seen how I came off so I could talk about that in the reunion. But Jen and I are good now. Like she was texting me this morning, but the audience doesn't get to see that. But hopefully in the reunion, they see that a little bit. - Yeah, I hope so. When we think about people who are like super unkind to Jen, I actually don't think of you. 'Cause you actually had a really interesting arc in the second season. So I feel like you and Demi came into season two like being fan favorites. - Yeah.

easily, as that was my experience. And then we start to question like, what's the truth? Not even just about you and Demi, but like about Jen and her husband. And it's like, wait, are we team Zach? No, living it, I was like, what is happening? But there's literally no way we could be, that Zach is the good guy. We saw the text that he sent Jen in Vegas. Like that's just not what the good guy does. No. But perhaps there's like more to the story. So we're like watching it all unfold. And then I feel like as soon as things unfold,

start to turn like you were quick to be you're very quick to be like actually no actually like you you don't have to be so stubborn like Demi who like took it all the way oh in New Orleans when she reacted that way to the video like sorry I just think it's cringy to cry I was like oh whoa whoa we're going two different directions yeah and at that time we had already had some drama so I was starting to separate myself from her yeah and it's funny because I

I had no idea what her reaction or the like viewers reaction to Demi was going to be. I didn't know she was going to be so hated. Right. But in real life, I was already separating myself and I actually think it was like the best thing I could have done. Oh, for sure. For sure. Because in the beginning of the season, like you two are like a dynamic duo, which we love. Yeah.

but then she's doing all these things and it's like, okay, Jesse, like, are you going to make a run for it? Please do save yourself. No, literally like get away while you can. Well, you know, what's so interesting about the internet too, is I think that she went into season two being like, oh, people love that. I told the truth. I stood on business. I think she like, that's who she is, but I think she really leaned into it thinking people were going to love it even more. But I think she just, a took it too far and B went against the wrong person, which is Taylor, which is Taylor because,

In season one, my feelings about Taylor just are constantly changing. How do you feel? Because I only see love and that's deserved. I love her. And having watched season two, I love her. In season one, I felt bad for her. But like the way that she operates, she's just like this agent of chaos in her own life. And like I...

can't really like relate to that. And it's just hard for me to completely like sympathize when like you're the cause of a lot of the issues that you have. And like, so I'm sorry that you're going through a hard time, but like you keep making mistakes and like, there are people like that who just like can't get out of their own way. And it's just, it's frustrating to watch. So I didn't have like so much love for her, but like then by the end of the season, she was like super pregnant. She wasn't even in the drama. She was so chill in the first season. Yeah. Because like she was so pregnant. Like what is she really going to do? So she kind of just like,

was out a little bit and then throughout season two I just like developed such a love for her I don't even know where it like came from really but I loved when she put like Demi in her place like I love how like she's kind of on the outside but when she like I said with KFC she's

slaps her dick on the table. - That was amazing. - Everybody's listening, you know what I mean? And it's not just 'cause she was the OG, but it's 'cause she's also saying something correct. So she's a complex character, this Taylor Frankie Paul. And now having known her for two seasons, I love her. - And I would say season two, Taylor is who Taylor is. Season one, yeah, she was pregnant and tired, but that's accurate. My favorite was when Layla tried to speak up in that dinner and Taylor just shut her down and then she was like, "Nevermind."

Yeah. No, everyone thinks they're big and brave until Taylor comes and puts them all in their place. It's funny because I thought I was going to be intimidated by Taylor before I met her. Me and her connected right off the bat. We have similar backstories. And I've never been scared of Taylor. I'm scared of Demi, which is so funny. But Taylor is just

she's like the nicest, most loving person, but then can have that side to her where she'll tell you how it is. But I'm never intimidated or scared because she's quick to forgive. She's super loving and Demi's like a little rougher around the edges. - And Taylor's not vindictive. - No, no, even though she's like petty and stuff, like she's not mean. - She was the only one to vote Whitney back into the group. That was the craziest scene. Everyone standing around, like should we have a vote, a quorum?

Yeah. And they vote no. And Taylor's the only one who votes for her. And then when it comes down to it, Whitney chooses Demi's side at the end of the season. That was shocking for all of us. Even in real life, we were like, what are you doing?

- And it's funny after season one, like of course I was so anti Whitney. Like she was the villain of season one, but like when season two started, I'm like clean slate. Like I don't even remember why I disliked her. And I really liked that about the show. I feel like you guys are really quick to forgive, which is a good quality to have in general, but also as a reality TV star, because like we can't just all not film together and like all just try and silo someone out like,

We have to move forward. And you guys are all on the show for the reason. You bring a lot to the show, each one of you. So trying to push someone out like that, it's just not going to work. It's frustrating for the viewers. So I like that. Also, if Whitney had come back doubling down on her behavior, it would have been different. But she did come back and try to apologize. She did what she had to do. Yeah. And I actually really like Whitney. We've spent a lot of time together recently. And-

She's Whitney. She does things that are funny and dramatic and maybe annoying at times, but she's harmless and she's really fun. And I agree with you that she kind of deserves that redemption arc. Her friendship with Demi is questionable at times. I'll give her that. But other than that, I do feel like she redeemed herself. Yeah, I was rooting for her the whole season. In fact, the villain of my season was Mikaela. Really? Yeah. Okay, I need to hear this. Just being like super...

so anti-Whitney, like nobody, nobody, Mikaela. Whitney can't come back into MomTalk. Just not letting it go. And I just, I wasn't about it. And so I was rooting for Whitney, 'cause it's like, okay, she paid the price, now let her back in. - Yeah, I agree.

But then when Whitney at the end of it took Demi's side, that was the oddest thing to me. And now they're back on the outs. And I'll be interested to see how I feel whenever season two, part two comes out. Like, do I have that same grace for Demi? Because of course, after season two, she's not my favorite. But I'm fluid. Things can change. Do you feel like if you compare Demi and Whitney's behavior as like the villains, that Demi's was worse? Because I feel like it made Whitney look harmless. I agree. I genuinely can't remember what Whitney did. She left a group chat. Yeah. I mean, in real life, it was more so like she did like,

isolate herself, left the group chat, didn't communicate with any of us, but like it wasn't really anything crazy. No, that's not crazy. But your first season of reality TV, everything seems like the end of the world. Yeah. And now it's like, eh, you know. Yeah. What's that? Exactly. No, it's so, it is really funny to me. It's like the best thing to happen to Whitney. Maybe that's why she likes her so much at the moment.

Yeah. So where do the girls stand now? Oh, gosh. So I will say right now, everyone's like pretty good with each other. You guys are all like doing press together. You're doing a live show in Vegas tomorrow together. Yes. You do podcasts together. Yes. So things are good. Yeah. I mean, we have our press tours and I think that's probably the most awkward thing about

fighting is we were filming season two while doing press, our reunion, our premiere, everything. So it's like we have to come together and be professional. Did you see like the Entertainment Tonight interview where a fight broke out? Yeah. Who was fighting? It was Demi and Jen and then Demi and Miranda and then Demi and Taylor a little bit. Like it was all of them.

Oh, I saw Demi and Taylor fighting on Entertainment Tonight. It was so bad. And I'm like, guys, like we have to be professional. This isn't our show. This is a live interview. Like, yes, but just know like it was the best thing that ever happened to Entertainment Tonight. No, they loved it. They're like, keep the cameras rolling. But that's the thing is like we have to do those things together and that can't happen every podcast or interview we go on. So we all are good right now. I will say like with Demi, like I'll never be friends with her again. Like we'll never be what we were.

- On the show, you guys were best friends in the beginning of the season. Was she also your best friend in real life or just your mom talk best friend? - Oh no, real life. Like we went on vacation together. We spent Easter with our families together. Like it was like, we were really, really, really close. That's why it hurt so much. - Yeah, and that's why you're not so quick to be like,

done with her. A couple things happen where you're starting to see, but I understand why you could be forgiving about, I want to ask you about the salary thing. How did that go down? What was she basically saying? That she'll absorb your salary and you don't have to be on the show? I think so. It's weird because in the show, it does look like I brush over that quickly. And the reason is I didn't know half the things she had said about me at that time.

So I was like, oh, you know, it's a misunderstanding. Later I found out more and I was like, oh yeah, that's not good. But basically we were negotiating for season two and we were about to film. It was in a few weeks. And we, at that point, like we're one season in. Like I said before, my point of view is this could be a flash in the pan. I know how reality works. I've watched it forever. You don't just like get to jump up

by thousands and thousands of dollars, like they'll replace you, you know? So I also had like management and my lawyer who was giving me advice on how to handle this. So I was going off of what they were telling me. And basically we were on a call and I had been doing a virtual podcast. So I joined late and it was all the husbands and wives with our lawyers and managers. And it was a call that like bounce ideas, ask questions, because that's our representation. We can say whatever we want to them and then they take it to the network.

And basically on that call, they had all decided we're going to join forces and basically say like, hey, all of us are going to walk if we don't get X amount. I didn't know that because I joined late. So I joined the call. And the first thing I hear is Brett telling our management, if we don't get X amount, then the whole cast is walking. Like we're done. And that was shocking to me because I'm like, first of all, I don't want a husband speaking for me. Second of all, that's not what I'm going to do. So I said that.

And they lost their minds. Brett was so mean to me on the call and so demeaning. And then afterwards, they called everyone behind my back like, if Jessie doesn't want to do this, if she's going to be selfish, then she's off. That way there is more money for all of us. Interesting. Yeah. And then the things I didn't know were Demi saying I had no morals, no values. I was fame hungry. I would do anything to be famous. She's like, I don't want to be a pawn in Jessie's hair scheme. Things that

just took it way too far. So I didn't know any of that until later on. But when we talked, it was very much like she ghosted me for a week, wouldn't talk to me. Finally, she came around. But it was very much like, you need to earn my trust back. I'm so disappointed in you. And it kind of put her on a pedestal in our friendship where she was here and I felt like I had to beg for her forgiveness. And that was our dynamic. And even though we were good again, I never felt like...

good in that. So then when more and more started coming out over the season, I was like, oh, she's not a good friend. And I need to let this go. Understood. How did the other girls feel? Were they ready to band together for more money? Was everyone on board with this plan? I think they were in the beginning because they're like, yeah. I think Demi had read a story about Jersey Shore doing it. And so she was like, they got a million dollars, so we can do that. And everyone was just like, OK. And

But then as time went on and we started to see how aggressive Demi was, how much she was asking for, I think some of the girls were like, oh wait, like I'm all for making more money, banning together, but like you're being a little too excessive to the point where like we had heard whispers that maybe she would not get rewarded for that behavior. And we don't all want to be a sinking ship. No, you don't want to overplay your hand. Like sure, negotiate and like you guys have earned it, but like there. Well, after

a few seasons like we have to earn our stripes is how I feel you know so and Taylor was right in that conversation if anyone deserves the most it is Taylor and she's not asking for it so do all of you get paid the same that's good I think that's great that's good for the health of the show it is yeah then that's not like oh well she brought more to the table because we all film six days a week if not more and we're putting in the effort it just sucks because then like they choose what makes it and what doesn't like I've had full weeks of filming that like none of it made it into the show

But that's the price you pay and you choose to do that. But we're all putting in the same amount of effort. It's just whose story kind of gets priority. But Taylor got us a show. She should always deserve more. But what I love about Taylor, she's really humble. She doesn't care about money. And she's like, no, like, yeah, I got us this show, but like it wouldn't be what it is without all of us. Like she couldn't have it alone. And that's what's the difference is she is so amazing that way. She's very magnanimous, this Taylor Freaky Paul. She's great. How did you feel when Layla showed

Taylor the text messages in the airplane. Who made that airplane? Okay. Do you want to hear a funny behind the scenes story? I was like, I know Taylor didn't want to go to the party. So I was like, can't you just act like your flight was delayed and you didn't make the party? Well, if it had been up to Taylor and Layla, I don't think they would have come. But me and Macy had thrown that party and we put so much time, money, effort into it. And I had thrown a party for Jay-Z Styles in season one that never made it. So me and Macy, our own biz,

Like we put our money in we were like what if this gets cut and we also needed to talk to Taylor about all the drama Right, it was a big everything was building up to when girls would be together Which would have been this party and Saints and sinners is like the perfect backdrop for it So we literally were like they have to come like you guys are letting them go do this brand deal in New York Like they have to be there and at first it was like they can't make it they can't make it We were like no they have to make it so they got them a private

plane. Like who the network did? Either that or management. I'm not sure exactly, but like whoever the powers be made it happen. And we were so grateful. Oh my God. They like got two hours of sleep, like did the photo shoot, flew the plane, came to Saints and Sinners. Oh my God. Because when I saw that, I was like, damn. I know. Go off. Everyone's like, Taylor like chartered that jet. Like look at her. I'm like, Taylor is so amazing.

not high maintenance. She would have been in the back row of a plane. She would not spend money like that. Trust me. No, you could tell it was like someone pushing the show forward. Like they needed to be at the party for the storyline. Which thank God they were because it made the party so much better. And also like I found out that information about Demi, I didn't know. And I just think it was iconic, the Satan center of it all. Yeah. No, it was, it was a necessary, like it would have just been...

I don't know how things would have played out, but it wouldn't have been like, it wouldn't have been as explosive. Much of a moment. And also Taylor walking with her angel wings, like so big. It was very dramatic. It was amazing. So when Layla showed Taylor, your guys' group chat and like, it was pretty like mean. Yeah. Yeah. Like, were you cringing? That's like my worst nightmare. Yes. Luckily, like I obviously knew about that in real life, so I didn't see it for the first time on the show. Okay. When did Layla told you or Taylor? Who?

Taylor told Macy and then Macy told all of us and we actually confronted her in New Orleans but didn't show. Layla. Yeah. It was at one of the dinners and it just never showed and Layla fell on the sword and apologized and it was fine. I understood why she did it in a sense but it was still like okay are you willing to like lose these friendships and

do that portrayal for this and then also not stand up for Taylor even though you told her you would, you know? So like it was murky, but the way I feel. - Right, it was like, not stand up for Taylor. - Yeah, it was one thing if she was like fully team Taylor, but I'm like Layla.

- No, no, no, no, no. - She's young. - She's like halfway there. She is young and that does come through. And as a Taylor Frankie Paul stan, I was rooting for her in that moment when like, you know, everyone was against her. I was glad that she had seen the text messages, but it's also like not fair to show someone things that you've said about them when you never thought they would see them. - No, and we were all annoyed in the moment and there was so much more to that story.

Honestly, though, Demi was the only one who took it to the next level. All of us were like annoyed and upset. And me and Taylor had had many conversations via text and phone, like one-on-one talking about it. After a few days, blown over, we're good. I was mostly upset because I had publicly posted her on my story twice for CMAs, commented on every TikTok CMAs posted about her. But I just happened to have not seen that exact post she did. I was in Mexico with my kids, but everything else I've

I promoted on my story. What did she say to that? She realized that. And she was like, you're right. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have lumped you in with everyone else. And I was like, thanks. That's all I needed because I did publicly support you. Because I was going to ask, like, it is weird if someone does something big and you guys comment on everything. That's like, for sure. That was what mom talk is. That nobody commented that everyone happened to be too busy that day. Yeah. Is odd.

odd. No, it is. And I'll give her that. Like that is so true. I had said to her, I wish she would have just come to the group chat and been like, Hey guys, there's something going on. Cause in Taylor's head, she genuinely thought we planned it. So that's why I stepped in and I was like, Hey, I posted you on my story when you were announced. I did a TikTok watching the CMAs. I posted, like I commented on every TikTok CMAs did. I just literally, I was in Mexico and I missed that one, but I did give it to her. I was like, it is so weird that we all missed it. I get that.

Maybe some of the girls did it on purpose. I don't know. Right. But you personally weren't not being supportive. I think it was a, I think it was the fact that we were all on Thanksgiving break and we were trying to just be off our phones. Um,

But still, it's weird. And I told her that like it is weird and I apologized. But I think it just blew up into something that Demi took to the next level and then it got out of hand. Yeah, because like she didn't like, I guess how Taylor like goes online and just starts like having an emotional reaction. That's like she calls her liability. But that's also the thing that got you the show. Like it's a sword that cuts both ways. Like, yes, if you think of MomTalk as a business, which I'm having my hard time wrapping my head around, like MomTalk, like when you guys are like, this is what MomTalk stands for. I'm like,

What would that mean without the show? Okay, so...

The way I think of MomTalk is MomTalk is secret lives. It's just like a code word. Thank you. But also our group of friends. We are women who are working, whether it's the show or Instagram, TikTok. We all bring in income through social media. I own a few businesses. So does Macy. So we are women who are the breadwinners and showing that like, hey, most of our husbands are stay-at-home husbands and dads. And we are the breadwinners. And I think that's what we mean by like we're showing that is that women can do it all and have it all.

and whatever, but it is the show. - I understand. No, the way that you just explained it makes perfect sense to me. And you and I were talking before this, and I think that you guys set a really good example for women. 'Cause a lot of the girls are really pregnant right now. And like they're like on press tours and they're like doing the most and they're dancing with the bellies at stagecoach. And I feel like a lot of the times, like when women are on reality television, it's either like before they're gonna have kids or are married and it's like fun times or it's after like Real Housewives. - That's a good point. - Yeah. - It's Summer House or Housewives. - We don't really get this

moment of like while you're having, while you have a young family, when you're starting a family, when you have kids and are pregnant. And it's really refreshing to see these girls like out there so pregnant, like still working, like on the number one show on TV right now. Like I think it's great for pregnant women and just like moms and young moms too. Not just like when you're 40 and your kids are in school and you can get back to work.

Yes, I agree. And we've had five pregnancies in the two seasons we've been on, which is crazy. But it's showcasing the season of life we're in now. Yeah. And all of the girls like, yeah, they're pregnant and tired, but they're hustling. We're doing press tour reunion, our premiere, filming the show. We have so much going on. And if it was like a reality show that was like, oh, it did well, but whatever, we probably wouldn't have as much going on. But because it's number one, we've gotten so many amazing opportunities. So they've had to hustle. No, and it's like, don't count out the

pregnant women. I feel like a lot of your career sometimes does slow down when you're pregnant, just because you're slower and like, that's how it is. And people are sort of like, okay, we'll wait till you're back. Yes. But no, I think it's so great what you guys are doing. And you guys kind of like cycle through it. Like, like Whitney was pregnant. She was sort of like, you know, wasn't at the top of the

like in the front of every video, she's like taking her time and now she's back and she's like-- - That's why there's so many of us. We can like help each other out, you know? - And I think that's great for women. - And also Taylor and Whitney both showcasing postpartum on the show. - Oh, true. - That's hard too. I actually think postpartum is sometimes harder than pregnancy. - Agreed. - And showcasing that on the show,

like Whitney breast pumping every fight we're in. Like it's so relatable. I personally, because that's the stage of life that I'm in. I love it. I was also saying this about the Valley too. And I feel like there are now a couple more shows that are focusing on this era. And even as they talk about like what's going to happen with summer house and like Lindsay Hubbard. And it's like, I don't need her to be on the house as of New York, but I would like a show about like young families. Like I think that's interesting. Like a Valley spinoff or summer house. I agree with that. Exactly. Cause there isn't much you're right. The Valley has kind of been the first we've been

leapfrogged over. Suburban family with kids show. Yeah. And you guys are doing it too. Which is crazy. I didn't think about it that way. No. So like, thanks for your service. You're so welcome. What I also didn't realize is that you had a one-year-old when you filmed season one. We were just talking about this. So like, that's a hard time. That's like an intense time. Yeah. I actually filmed or sorry. I, when was it? I auditioned for the show when I was three months postpartum.

- That's so great. - Yes, and then we obviously took a while to film and then we filmed her first birthday party in season one. So she was one. I guess I didn't think about it that way, but you're right. You're postpartum the first year and you're going through all of this hormonal change and then you have a reality show. That's why with Taylor and Whitney, I'm like, how did they do that?

crazy. Yeah. And like the physical, I feel like to me, I also think about like the way, like not to be like vain, but like the way you're going up and down and being on camera, like typically it wouldn't be like the forefront in my mind, but it's like hard to like see yourself changing so much. Taylor says all the time about like our season one headshots. She's like, I was like,

a week postpartum. Like I hate them. I'm like, I would feel that way too. Like you look so different. You're swollen. Like you're not yourself. It's so hard. She's feeling like herself again. Oh yeah. Taylor's back. Like just wait for the next season. Like I feel like each season we're going to see more and more of her and all of us. Do you know when you start filming again? So I actually don't know. We filmed all 20 episodes. So we are done with what's coming next. And that'll be

When was the last episode filmed-ish? We just finished, like two weeks ago. Oh, so the things that are happening in real time will make it. Oh, yeah. Okay, so even though they're not on the reunion, we're going to see it all play out. But the reunion's good because we did bring a little bit of what was going on in real time because people are seeing it online. And then also they showed us clips at the reunion. So we saw some things. Yeah. So we could talk about it. But yes, like the next season. No, and we just need more of you guys. Like seriously, I'm going through withdrawals. No, Jackie. Even talking to you today, like it's all...

I have put it all out of my mind. I'm like, I don't even remember. - You're like, this is actually bad for me. - No, I'm like thinking, I don't even remember the season, like what am I talking about? I'm like, why didn't you support Taylor at the CMAs? - Exactly, it's all coming back to me. But no, the next season, like if you thought this season was crazy, the next season is like insane. - Okay. - Like every season gets crazier. I don't know how, it's wild.

Okay, well, I seriously can't wait. Thank you for indulging me in this recap and for the toasters. We've been waiting for this one. And now we're going to do the Fast Five Stories. Because you're a toaster, you know the drill. I do. We've got a lot to talk about. So without further ado, here are the Fast Five Stories that you need to know. Today's episode of The Toast is brought to you by Huggies Snug and Dry. The new Huggies Snug and Dry are luxuriously soft,

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Our first story was a video that dropped yesterday after we finished recording that sort of broke the internet as much as one video can. I'm sure it broke Claudia's brain as well. I saw her story and that's how I saw it. It broke my brain, honestly, because Meghan Markle posted a video of her and Prince Harry in the delivery room while she was waiting for the birth of their daughter, Lilibet, in 2021. Yesterday was Lilibet's birthday. She posted like a lot. Oh, that's why. I was like, this is so random. Yeah. She posted like a couple like sweet tributes.

to her daughter and then also posted this moment from her pregnancy in 2021 where they're dancing to the Baby Mama dance song. That was a trend there for a minute. Yeah, but you know what I saw this morning? And I don't want to give any credence to any rumors because you just mentioned it. This song came out in 2021, a month before this video was filmed. But it wasn't a trending song until 2023. Like,

Oh, yeah. So did she start the trend? I don't know. But she just posted it for the first time. Right. But if she took the video in 2021, like, but the song wasn't really popular. I don't know how she found it and knew every word. Especially because she's not like the most like skilled with like social media. Yeah, she's like a millennial social media user. Like not on the forefront of trends. So yeah.

I just want to say that it came out in 2021, a month before the video. So the song was out. I don't know what people are alluding to with that. I think people like have weird conspiracy theories about her pregnancies. I don't buy. I'm literally not bought into any of that. I want to talk about the video at hand. Yeah. Take out the timeline. Yes.

They're dancing to Baby Mama's song in the delivery room while she's like trying to induce labor. She's like a week after her due date and she's breaking it down. She's an amazing dancer. I love videos of people dancing. Especially that pregnant. Yeah. Like that's insane. I loved watching this video of her. Like she's got the moves. Yeah. He,

He is like petering in and out. Like I just know Claudia's dying. Like look at me, look at me. Yeah, no. And it's so, it's just so weird. But I really was like so shocked by this video. Not a lot shocks me anymore. Like and scandalized by it. Like it's just so like regular. It's so mom talk. Like this is something Whitney would do. You're so right. That's why it felt familiar. Literally. And it's Meghan and Prince Harry. Yes, I know. It was very like normal of them.

But also why post it four years later? Yeah. Well, now she's in her content queen era. You're right. And she's going into the archives. She wasn't posting anything before. Oh my God. And also like the queen was alive. I'm sorry. You couldn't have been doing that. You're right. No. This would have been removed in 10 seconds. But isn't it funny that she thought to set it up? The queen would have had a heart attack.

and film it knowing she wasn't posting it. That was just for them. Yeah. Does that show like their personalities a little? I think so in a good way. Yeah, me too. That's just like fun stuff that you do with your husband. You're silly in the waiting, like triage. And I think it's a really cute video, but I'm just like shocked that she posted it, that that's how they are sometimes. Because it's so not the public persona they put off.

- No. - So it is shocking. Also, I wanna know, did it work? Like did her water break after? - Oh, I don't know. Probably. - 'Cause her caption was like, "We tried everything, spicy food." - So then we had to get to this. - Yeah. - It's like a really long video too. It's like, she knows the whole dance, all the words, him too. He's like on the beat. Harry's got the beat. - He's got the beats.

It was interesting for sure. I was like, okay. I just want everyone to know, like, I was seriously shocked by this video. Like jaw on the floor. Yeah. In a positive way. And also just like thinking about Queen Elizabeth, like I'm not. No, I kind of wish it would have dropped three years ago. Like just to see, you know, what would have happened? Queen Elizabeth would have dropped. Watching her grandson. Baby mama, let me see. Like I can't. No, no. But you know what? That's why they left is they want to do things like this. But I think they need to lean into that.

Yeah, I think more and more they will. Especially like I think they've gotten their feet wet and like they're doing a lot of content. Now she's posting like much more. So I think they'll be doing more of this and in real time too. Does he post a lot? I don't even know. I don't think he has an Instagram. I think it's just like the Sussexes. They're like official Instagram. Which I've always been curious. Maybe you know. Why do they keep the royal titles if they're not in the royal family? That's a really earnest question. Do you think about that? I mean...

like i think a lot of people are like they don't say it in such an earnest way they're like why do they keep the titles yeah i'm like yeah i mean maybe they have to no oh they don't okay it's like clout it's cloud like would you renounce being a duchess just because you didn't get along with the family such like a big fuss about leaving the royal family that it's like you would think if that was the case they'd want to like drop every tie you know it's a bit contradictory yeah

- Eh? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Interesting. - But I, like, I would, you couldn't pry the title from my cold dead hands. - No, totally. Like, I want the title, I don't want the work. - Yeah, but I think I would've been up for the work. - Yeah. - I don't really know, like, just knowing like how I am, like, I just think,

I would have been up for the challenge or I just would have, if I'm not that sort of person, like I would have stayed away. - It's a lot of like philanthropy events. - It's not glamorous. - No, it's a lot of work. - I think people go into it like, oh my God, I'm a princess, like slay. And no, you're like at a local ribbon cutting for the opening of a library. Like it's not. - And she was a working actress. So that's kind of like a fast paced life on like a really popular show. So maybe it was just jarring for her

to go to a different type of work? I don't know. - I think it was just not what she thought it was gonna be. And like, she's not getting along with everyone. Like, let's get out of here. - Yeah, I hate my life, let's leave. But I just am curious, like what made Harry like follow suit? - Well, that's the bigger question. 'Cause I feel like her actions are understandable. Like this isn't for me, I want out. And the fact that like, he just like high tailed it and turned, and then the like, not even just leaving the family, which I think was like really,

But like then airing all the dirty laundry, writing the book, just not in the best way. Like you can leave the family business without like burning all the bridges. Right. You know, but maybe in royalty you can't. Maybe that it's all or nothing. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I think the bridges were burning and then he really just –

Instead of, but like you could have repaired the bridges. Yes. I wonder if they ever will. No, at this point, no, no, I'm sorry. The book I think was the final straw. You're right. People forget about it, but William doesn't. No, it'll never happen again. Yeah. It's kind of sad. It is sad. Like you're so close with your family. I am too. Like, I just can't imagine getting to that point, but not all families are like that. Yeah. It's

It's sad. It is sad. It's very sad. Our next story is a little unhappy couple news. Dakota Johnson and Chris Martin have split after eight years together. I believe she ditched her engagement ring while shopping in New York City after her and Chris Martin have now called things off for good.

That's so sad. It is sad. I feel like we've been prepared for this because they kind of are on and off again. And like, this isn't the first time there's been like rumors about them. But I thought they were a great, cute couple. I know. And eight years is a long time. What I thought about is like his kids. Like, I'm sure they see her as a stepmom. Gwyneth Paltrow gets along with her, she said. Like, it's a really good family unit. So it's also sad that now there's like a gap that might be filled by someone who

It's not as harmonious as Dakota. Because that's really hard to blend a family. Like, we co-parent with my husband's ex-wife. And it's really great. But I know it can go sour so quickly. So, like, it sucks that they had, like, this perfect unit. Yeah. But have you seen, like, how she's, like, really close with, like, Pedro Pascal? No. That she's filming a show with? Like...

like there's been like photos of them spotted together and people are saying rumors. So I almost think the timing's kind of weird. Oh, that's weird. I hadn't seen that. Thanks for the tea. Yeah. Have you ever seen the movie blended? No, you have to watch it. Is it good? Oh my God. It's so good. It's one of my favorite movies and it's about a blending. Wait, is it Adam Sandler? Andrew Barrymore. Yes. I've seen like things of it, but I haven't seen the movie. It's,

such a great like starter kit for blending a family. It's so cute. Like I need to go watch. I should have watched that five years ago. Every family that's like blending. I'm like, watch blended. Okay. That's good to know. Maybe we should tell Chris Martin like for your next relationship. Oh yeah. Definitely watch blended toast movie of the week. But it's just sad. Cause like, I remember like, was it like three or four years ago he had done a concert and it was like, I dedicate this song to my whole universe. And it was her and she was in the audience. Like

when you see things like that, it is sad when it ends. I agree. And when you're with someone for eight years, it's more than a breakup, even though they weren't married or they didn't have kids. It's like a divorce. Aren't you married like,

if you're together seven years, like a common law marriage. Yes. Like basically they were. Yes. It was not just like a two year relationship. That's like, yeah, you know, but I guess we should have known like they hadn't gotten married and they were engaged for how long? Like that's usually not a great sign. Yeah. But then I just chalk, it depends on the person, but sometimes with like someone like Dakota, I just chalk it up to like her being different, you know? Yeah. You're right. I could see that. Yeah. But also Gwyneth's a little different too. So probably he

- He's a little different. We're like, no, we're not having a traditional marriage, but like, I'll give you a ring because you're my partner and like. - Yeah, it's a promise ring. - Yeah, yeah, it's like a commitment. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I will be curious to see who they both date next.

- Yeah, especially him just because he dates really fabulous women. I don't know like who she's typically dated. - What's her type? I don't know. - I don't know either. - It's very interesting. - Yeah. - Yeah, it'll be. - That is good. I can add them to the list of eligibles. - Yeah, add her to the list. - I think I will. - And him. How old is he now? He's gotta be like near his fifties, right? - Yeah, that's true. - 'Cause they have like an 18 year old daughter.

She's 35. Oh, okay. He is 48. Oh, okay. Gotcha. A huge age gap. No, not a huge age gap. I saw something so weird this morning. Speaking of

age gaps in reality television like on the bachelor in paradise i think they're sending like golden bachelors down there with the young the youngins i saw that and then jesse palmer was like we hope that there's an age gap relationship i'm like what and then when people push back on it he was like no like like bill belichick like it's all the like rage what like that's not a great example that's not the takeaway no that's not a couple of goals it's not like more of this please and also i just feel like sometimes it works sometimes it really doesn't like

usually it's one of them taking advantage of the other. - I think that's so weird and I don't understand how they're like getting away with that. You would think the powers that be would just be like, that's an awful idea. - Yes, I think it's 'cause they are so desperate to like keep it,

And people love Golden Bachelor, but like not on the beach. I thought when they announced that it was going to be like the Goldens are here and the Youngens are here and they come together for activities and that's it. Yeah. That's going to be interesting. I will say I want to watch it just to see what happens. Are you kept up on The Bachelor? Not really. I did watch last season because I met Grant before he went on and he was really nice and I liked him. So I was like, okay, I'll watch. How'd you meet him? At going to the Golden Bachelorette finale.

Oh, he was already like in the world of Bachelor. Yes. So he was like already like slated to be The Bachelor. And you're Hulu ABC family. Yes. So we kind of have a lot of crossover. And then Latia, who was on his season, is one of my friends. So she's like a Mormon wife or not Mormon wife, but a Mormon hope to be wife someday. So I feel like it was kind of like...

You know, like the same vibe and everything. So I watched that season, but before that I hadn't watched it in years. I also feel like Love Island has like taken over. - Are you gonna watch the season? - Love Island? Yeah, I watched the new one on the way here. - I'm going to be watching, but I got really sick last night, guys. I don't know if I told you that. - Like pregnancy sick? - No, I thought it was at first 'cause I was just like feeling really off and unwell. And then I like took a nap for like late, like by seven.

And I woke up, I was like, I'm going to throw up. I literally threw up all my guts up, which I, like I gag all the time. And like maybe would like throw up like in my mouth, but not to be gross. Yeah. But not like spill my guts up. Like I had a little bit of a bug or something. Was it like food poisoning? I think, I think, I think like food poisoning, not just something like, I don't know. And that on top of pregnancy is like the worst.

Oh my gosh. So last night I was just like focused on recovering. Okay. Yeah. How do you feel today? I feel good. Good. Okay. I've been like losing my voice. So between us two, we're just sick. And I was like, I'm not fucking missing Jessie. So you better get it together. I would have waited. I'm just like, okay, I'll just wait until she shows up. No, no, no. I was like, we can keep it together for a few hours. But Love Island's a long watch. It's like almost two hours. Right. And it's every day, right? No, it's really crazy. But I will endeavor to.

I will get into it this week because I know like it's. It was good. I think they had big shoes to fill. That's what scares me. Because it did so well that I think if anyone comes in trying to like recreate that, it's not going to go well. But I think Ariana being the host is great. I think that she'll bring that same energy. But I just think that like Bachelor and Bachelor in Paradise have a lot to compete with now. Yeah. So they've got to keep it fresh somehow. So maybe that's how. And this is their big idea. Bill Belichick. We'll see. We'll see if it pans out. We'll see.

Our next story is a little reality TV news because Kim Zolciak and Corey Bierman's daughter, Ariana Bierman, who is now on this new Bravo show, Next Gen NYC, she claims that her parents spent all of her money amid their divorce.

So on the new episode of the show, on the premiere, she said, I've been on TV since I was five years old. I did reality television with my family and then I started posting on Instagram. I got my first brand deal when I was 14. I feel like we were all there. We all remember this time. Express Mile Atlanta. Yes.

She said, I was doing like three posts a week and you get paid astronomical to do a story or do an Instagram post. And I made quite a bit of money. But unfortunately, my parents took my money. She said she can't say exactly what her parents used the money on, but found out that it was gone two years ago. She said, I don't even know how much money I made over the time period. Nobody was honest. There was no transparency. And I have no idea where it actually went. How old is she? She is now...

- 23. - So why did she not get it when she turned 18? - Oh, I don't know. - Right? Like you would think that's how it works. - Yeah. - And this opens up a bigger discussion about influencers, kids who are working in that realm, parents, like isn't there laws against this?

Definitely. And I think like the most recent conversation people were having about it was like family channels that kids should get paid when they are in their parents content, which is like, yeah, that's a good idea. Like allowance. This is even crazier because it's not even like she's getting residuals from her mom's job. This is like a child actor. Yes. And then parents are managing the money and they blew it. Yeah. It's terrible. It's terrible, especially because she doesn't even know what they spent it on. It was probably just like.

Uber Eats and like nothing you can even see. - Like isn't she the one with like a wig collection? Like it was probably all the wigs. - Yeah, no and Claudia has always said for years, like the level of wealth that they live at, like just doesn't seem to be consummate with how much money they could potentially be making. So she's also like wiping the bank's accounts of her. And she also has another daughter, but I wonder if because Brielle's older, if like,

if Kim didn't hit this desperate time before Brielle got her money. - That could be it. - Yeah. - How about how sad that like the older one gets it all and then you're just like, "Shit, out of luck." - No, that's really sad. - Do you think that there's like, do they talk? Are they, is there animosity? - I think that they do talk because in the show, like in the preview, like she's dropping her off in New York, like giving her a hug, saying goodbye. - So like, is this gonna create issues? Like that's crazy. - I don't know. But I also feel like for Kim, she would be like, "Yeah, honey, like air it out on TV." - You're right. - Like that's the job. - It's true.

But it doesn't make Kim look good. No, no. That's what's shocking to me is like, this isn't like reality where you're fighting with your friends. Like when you have your family involved, that's what like scares me. Like, how do you come back from that? Like your mom stole from you. How much do you think their brand deals?

- As kids? - I feel like a couple thousand dollars for stories and posts. So what was in the account? Maybe at least $200,000. - Yeah, 'cause it adds up quickly. - Yeah, and they're doing it for years. - And they're doing the work. That's so awful. - That's so awful. - Is this the one that keeps getting divorced and then not divorced? - With Croy, yeah. - Yeah, okay. There's probably a lot of legal fees too that this money went to. - Imagine if all this money went to lawyers. Seriously flush it down the toilet and they're not even getting divorced or they are. - Yeah, who knows?

That's really, really sad. Yeah. But I think that's like the horror stories you hear about families and the media, especially when kids start out young. And like when your family is on display like that, it does scare me. Like I would never do this to my kids, but it scares me about putting my kids in the limelight because it can just some people take fame and money and it just like turns them into different people. And I feel like that's like a prime example. Yeah. Do you find that with any of the cast members on your show?

Maybe one or two. One specifically. I mean, it's really like, it's intoxicating. It is. Like the fame and the money. I think the crazy thing is like our show was so successful overnight that it was like, yeah, like this huge thing. And with Demi specifically, like overnight fan favorite. She got so much love and praise and

that can't not go to your head, right? But I feel like she took it to that level. And then the weird thing for me is that she stood on like, but I don't care about any of this fame, money, none of it affects me. But she was the one who was probably the most affected by it. Right. While also like making fun of Taylor for not caring about money. Yeah. Like she said that and then said, I was fame hungry. And we're like, both me and Taylor are like, what? Like it just didn't make sense. But I will say-

I think you'll see more of this next season. But since the season has come out, I do feel like watching herself back humbled her a little bit. I feel like that could happen. I cannot hold space for someone that they see that and that they aren't like apologetic because to see yourself is different than like to live it from your own experience. Yes. But then when you see other people's like what they're going through and their testimonials and like it just...

you realize like not everything is just from your point of view. - And in real life, you never get to like live your memories back like that and be like, oh, I can look at this from another angle. So I think it was beneficial for her because she was like, oh, I did this wrong, I did this wrong. And I think it did humble her a little bit. And I will say like, I've seen a different side.

So that's good. But you also feel like it's the fan's reaction. That's like, well, whatever I did didn't work. Let's try something new. Yeah, it could be. Like, oh, if I'm apologetic and I'm friends with the girls again, like the public will like me. Yeah. I've thought about that. And that's why for me, I'm good with her. She's going to be my coworker. I can be friendly and civil, but I will never trust her and let her in the same way as I did before. And I'm sure some of the other girls too. It's like. That's how we all feel. Yeah. You have to like question, at least in the beginning, someone's intentions when they're apologizing. Yeah. Because they've gotten in trouble. Yeah.

Why are they apologizing? Exactly. It's like you didn't reflect on your actions before. Yeah. But you are now. Like the podcast she had done talking about me and Taylor was a week before the show came out. So she was clearly very firm in her opinion still. And then the show came out and it flipped. So yeah, like you have to take things with a grain of salt for sure. But this world's weird. Like everyone's like opinions and behaviors change on a dime. Because the fan reaction is like an unpaid character in the show.

- It's so true. - It's crazy. Like we all have it in our heads, you know? - Yeah, and what's funny about your show is there's not really a split audience reaction. It's not like people really being like, "Team Demi, Team Taylor."

- And even last season, like with Whitney, it's not really, like it's very- - It's like, we hate Whitney, she is the villain. And like same with Demi this year. - But I kind of like how you guys don't take it so seriously. Like, it's like, okay, I'm the villain today. I'm gonna play into it. I'm gonna do the TikToks. They made like villain TikToks. - Yes. - Cool. - That's the only thing you can do, I think.

I will say like I go back and forth on this because I think that Demi and Whitney both gave villain energy in real life. Like they said and did things that gave the producers material to be the villain, right? I don't think that like

Macy could have been painted a villain by example. You know, like you have to do certain things. But I will say that with time, things change and you can evolve as a person like in real life. Like that's how life works. So like I will leave space for that. But I just don't think people can blame it on editing. Yeah. And I think a lot of villains try to do that in reality TV. So I'm glad they're at least leaning into it. But I hope there is like evolution and like change. And I saw that with Whitney. So I will say like Whitney is a good example of like seeing her behavior, correcting it and trying to be better. And I hope Demi does that too.

Yeah. It'll be interesting to see because it feels like Demi's a little more hardheaded. She is. She's very opinionated. She's a Leo. So she's like fiery. But I could also see her having like a fire apology. Like totally. Like because she's well-spoken. She's like really smart. I could see her and me being like, okay, Whitney, I'm sorry. Yeah. No, she's very passionate. So like no matter what she does, she does it with passion, which is like admirable. Yeah.

But like, yeah, like even apologizing, you're right. Like I think I said on the show that she speaks like a therapist. And I think that's why I'm scared of her at times because she's so well-spoken that she can convince you the sky is green. And you're like, no, you're right. Like, yeah, that's what's hard about her. But it's such a good quality to be that well-spoken. So she definitely has strengths and I hope she plays into those in like the best way and not like the worst way. I'm laughing so hard thinking about me next season. Like to me is really changed. Okay. I don't think you will think that.

maybe season four oh my god and then what was so crazy is like this whole season was like a season you know and then the last five minutes like i'm watching a whole nother show i know i know that's a little sneak peek into what you're gonna get okay i like can't even go down that road yet and i'm seeing like marciano making tiktoks i'm like okay i'm like you're not even part of the story no he's being so thirsty and it's actually ruining it like can you stop like give us a

little mystery because right now when I see all these TikToks, I'm like, okay, you are so thirsty. Whatever you said in that hotel room, I don't believe. Well, good. I'm glad. Yeah. And it seems like the way things are playing out after the show, like nobody believes that. That's like clearly not what happened. I think the reunion will give a little more into the real story and the next season will give

obviously the whole story. But I do agree that I think for him, he should have like laid low. Yeah. I just want everyone to know we are not affiliated with that. Like we did not say like make this content. Oh, I don't think so. Yeah. I think people think we all have this master plan together. Like to me and Marciano, then me and Marciano, like we all planned this to get relevancy for both shows. Like that is not what happened. But yeah,

for himself and his like brand, he should have just like been mysterious. - Mysterious, like who is this guy? Oh my gosh, somebody's secret lover. And then like when it's really about you, like come out and tell your side. But like all the videos I'm seeing against my will, I don't trust you and what you're saying.

which I guess is good for me. - Which is good for you. Like, I don't even, when I think of it, I'm like, I did not even remember that fact until now. - It's so crazy because I obviously knew. - Like, did you freak out when you saw that? - Well, I knew it was coming. - Okay. - So like, I knew. I, for a month, was like, my life's over, I'm panicked, like, people are gonna hate me, I'm the real villain.

like panicked and then it happened and like no one talked about it like nobody moved it's like we were all hung up on the rest of the season like to me being the villain and like I like thanks to me like she took like that spot for me but like I've seen obviously a little bit but mostly people are saying what you're saying like we don't believe this man so yeah that's great for me but I will say there's like so much more to that story and I I look forward to like the whole truth coming out because there's so much your guys's episode of Vanderpump Villa

It's not that exciting. It was supposed to be better. It wasn't. But you can. Maybe it'll give you a little backstory. I like to have the whole story whenever I'm judging a thing. Okay, watch it before the next season. Like right before. Okay, I will. You don't need to watch it right now. Yeah, I have to watch Love Island. Yeah, you have other things on your contemplate. You're good. My contemplate. Today's episode of The Toast is also brought to you by Everyday Dose.

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Our next story, someone who can actually convince you that the sky is green, the Wicked Part 2 trailer, Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo put Glinda and Elphaba to the test in a dazzling first footage from the sequel. So Part 2, Wicked for Good, is the second part of the movie coming out. And the trailer just dropped. Plus, earlier this week, um...

John M. Chu, the director, said that they're actually writing original music for this movie. And they're working with Stephen Schwartz, I think, is the original composer who wrote the first song. So they will be in line with the elk of Wicked music. Which is more exciting for this show. I mean, this movie is going to do great regardless, but that makes it even bigger, right? Yeah, especially because they used all the good songs on the first movie. The only song we're still waiting for is For Good. And then I guess some reprises of...

The old ones. The old ones. Because those were in the trailer. Yeah. Yeah. Even like, I'm like, where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, Wicked that I just watched. I will say the trailer like did make me realize why they split it into two parts. When they first announced it was two parts, I was like, why? Like, why? But now I'm like, yeah, each version of this story needed to like have its moment. That's generous of you. Really? I'll save my like thoughts on that until I see the whole movie. Okay, true. Because right now it does still feel like

a money grab and like they're just like so long-winded they take themselves so serious that they can't make them as long it will probably be long but they can't they seriously can't make a movie less than six hours like are you okay this first one was what like three and a half or something yeah and so like to do so and I loved the first movie so I'm like I'm trusting them I'm trusting the process but seeing this the second trailer made me excited again it's like good party content like the music is fun to have like a moment in time it's fun so I'm not mad at it but

I'm still not convinced it needed to be two movies. I agree with you in that sense. I think what made me realize that was when they brought like the Dorothy and like the Tin Man. Yeah. It's a whole other world. Yeah. And I hope they, it's not five seconds. I hope that they like have a little bit of that. I agree. Like we almost need it to bleed into Wizard of Oz movie. And then do you think they'll redo that? I think so. I think I,

saw something people were rumors were swirling about who's playing Dorothy in yes they don't show the face they don't show the face yet but I had seen I think she was in Matilda the musical on Netflix something like that because she was at the premiere of the first movie and they were like saying I think that that but then they could build a whole world around that about around Dorothy that's what they're doing and do a new Wizard of Oz because we were set for we're due for a new Wizard of Oz movie it's been how many years like 500 yeah exactly

- Exactly, it's about time. No, I agree with that. I think that that's why I was interested as I was like, oh, there's gonna be more story here. - Yeah, I agree when you think about that 'cause otherwise it's just like they're split in. It's like the penultimate scenes in the movie when like they're not getting along. - Which it was really just them two in the trailer. Like it's really just about them. - It's really just about them. So we'll see what they do with it, but I'm excited.

To get back in, like Wicked was such a fun time. I even have been listening to the music again recently. It was just so good. It was amazing. Like it is a pop culture moment in time. Yeah. So they filmed all of it at the same time, right? So why do you think they're a year apart? Just to drag it out? I think so. To have that like Christmas movie box office moment. You're right. You're right. It's actually crazy that we're what, like six months away from that? Yeah. Because it comes out in November? Yeah. Time flies. That's insane. Like it just happened. I know. Wow. That's crazy. That's crazy.

Last November, I think it was like the weekend that came out was the CMA's drama. So I feel like that was yesterday. Is that what you associate with Wicked? No, literally. You're like at Wicked with your kids and your phone's blowing up. Like Taylor posted a video. Yeah, 100%. Like I remember going to see Wicked and I didn't know that Demi was going to see it. And she had parked right next to me and I like sent her a picture. I was like, you're at Wicked too. And we were texting about the movie and then texting about Taylor right after. So like-

Hopefully nothing happens when Wicked 2 comes out because I have PTSD. That's so funny. My Wicked movie going experience is associated with that was the week that we switched my son to a toddler bed. Oh. And so the whole time I was just like, is he in his bed? Like I literally, did he fall asleep yet? Was he home in the bed? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yep. And it was all fine. But the whole time I'm like, did he fall asleep? Is he staying in the bed? Did he fall out? He fell out.

No, it can happen. Has he? No, he has like the rail. It's like a crib converted. No, my son still fell out of that. Like terrible. Oh, thanks. Great. It's been six months. You're good. You're past that. No, no, no. And so I wonder maybe when part two comes out, my younger one will be converting. It's so true because what's their age gap?

A year and a half. Oh, yeah. Like, you're just gonna be on that cycle. And he already does everything, like, faster because he wants to be like his brother. And then when, like, Wizard of Oz comes out, it'll be your third in the bed. I'm cracking up. That's, like, I still remember when I saw Hannah Montana, the movie, which was, like,

the most exciting thing that ever happened to me as a young girl, obsessed with Hannah Montana. We saw the movie at midnight and the whole time I was worried I left my hair iron on. - Oh no. - And it like really, I wound up seeing the movie three times in theaters, but like I will never forget that. - That's like your brain. - The whole time I have a pit, like did I leave on my hair iron? - Isn't it funny how like a scent, a sound, a memory can like correlate with something and you remember it always? - Yeah. - That's crazy.

Like I remember seeing the Lizzie McGuire movie. It was the same thing as Hannah Montana. Like in theaters, I remember the outfit I wore because I was so excited. Like it looked like Lizzie McGuire. Were you a Lizzie girl? Yes. Well, I was both. Like I loved them. But it's funny how you correlate those things. It is so funny. Core memory.

Core memories. I feel like so many childhood moments were ruined by thinking I left my hair ironed on. Are you OCD like that? I guess. Because I am. I still do that. I've gotten to a place where I've realized that even if I leave my hair ironed on, it's okay. Not that I do it, but like, it's just not. Do you have one that shuts off automatically? That could change your life, honestly. Exactly.

Who changed my life? I have the Baby Bliss Pro. Oh, okay. Those are really good. What do you use? I have my own hot tools, so I use mine. But I've used Babalus, everything else. Is that what it's called? Babalus? Well, I've always heard Babalus. Not Baby Bliss? It's Baby-less or Babalus, but I actually don't know. So one of us is right. I mean, I would say the hair expert is right. I would assume I'm right because that's how I learned it in hair school.

Yeah, when you went, when Babalus came to your salon and told you about their new product. Probably. You were right. But watch BB wrong. And like, they reach out to me and they're like, you're so embarrassing. That is so, no, let's just see. Yeah, how do you pronounce Babalus or Babyliss? Babybliss is what I called it. But it's like, you're pronouncing it the way it's spelled. Like, that's right. No, no, wait. Is it even a label? It's B-A-B-Y-L-I-S-S. Yeah. But the second B is capital. So it's Babaliss.

- Oh my gosh, I didn't even pick up on that. Babaliss. - I'm seriously cracking up. I've been using this iron since, like I've been using a Babaliss since college, calling it baby bliss. - That's hilarious. - Hilarious. - Keep it. It's like the elk thing. - That's classic Jax. - It is, like just keep going. You need to get a brand deal with them, that's iconic. - Oh my God, totally. We haven't even talked about hair yet. - Oh yeah. - I wanted to ask you to do my hair, but that would have just been really annoying. - Is that your natural color? - It is. - I am so jealous. Like never change that. - Thank you. - That's insane. Are you worried about like when you do go gray?

um, cause you know, I guess the only worrying thing is like, if I want to keep my color, like how will I find it? That's what I'm saying. Like you would have to color it to keep the red, but it probably won't be for 20 plus years. So you're fine. No, for me, it's like, I love my hair color, but more than that, I love like not having to color my hair. Like, I feel like it's like a level of maintenance that I don't even realize I'm so privileged to not have to experience like every what six weeks. Yes. Well, for me, I can't even look at my nails. I can't

even get a manicure. No, right? And when you're so busy and you're a mom, like I'm so jealous of you. My natural hair is platinum blonde. Like I am very blonde. Yeah, you would never know. But I like to be darker. So I have to do my roots every two weeks. Like I am blonde. Like it looks gray when it comes

So I'm very, very jealous. But you recently went this dark. Yes. But I've been darker for like two years. Yeah. But my whole life I was blonde. And it's funny because I look back at photos now and I'm like, ew. Like I hate it. No, the dark. What is it called? You're a moon or something? Yes, I'm a moon, not the sun. But I'm so jealous because I have so much maintenance. But I mean, I do hair. It's like easy. I can do it myself. But-

style you're so but you've had to learn yes yes that's like people who have like naturally like beautiful wavy like yeah blow out looking hair like never actually learned how to style hair that's true yeah you're right like i've been doing my hair or i do like now it's like more wavy just like it's dead okay mostly yeah but like i've been doing my hair since the hannah montana movie came out like that's why i left my hair iron on yeah right i'm dead do you ever wear it curly

No. Okay. No. Like maybe sometimes like on the weekends, but then I just put in a slick back bun. Like I don't even. Well, cause here in Florida, it like, does it frizz up? Like even when I blow it, if I like, I'm trying to do a blowout, but it's like a humid day. Then like, it will get a little like puffy. I don't mind puffiness though. Like it's volume. Like it's something. Today I have no volume because. Like the sleek look though.

Because I was going to wear my hair up because it's a Thursday. So usually in my cycle, I go hair up. Yes. But you're the hair queen. So I just felt like, I don't know. I gotta wear it. What if you came here and like asked to style my hair? Like I gotta do it live on the show. So no, we can't be wearing a bun. We need to get the Jay-Z Styles look. I know. Which is changing. It is a little.

It is a little bit. I used to do like a lot of curls. That was like the Utah curl look. But I feel like the girls are evolving. Like we've been doing more blowouts. So I kind of feel like each season we have like a signature look. Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see what season three is. I love a blowout. But I also love the signature. Like I feel like you guys, the hair was a cultural shift of first season. Kate, so weird. So great for my business. But I was not expecting that.

Like that's just how we look and how we get ready and everyone in Utah does it. Yeah. And I'm like, it's just curling the hair. Beautiful wavy hair will always be in style. Always. It's so classic. And we like kind of fell out of it and everyone's like doing a million other cool things.

- Like, bobs and everything. - Love, love, but like, it's a timeless look. - I agree. - And you guys brought us back to that. - Yeah. - So the show, season one was good for your business? - Oh my gosh. - I imagine. - We sold out of our curling irons in like two days. It was crazy. - Wow. - Yeah, it was nuts. So it's been great. Like even season two, having like the hair drama with Demi, I was like so not okay with that when it happened. And I was like, this sucks, but.

it's been great for the business. It has been. I wouldn't think that it would really derail because the proof is in the pudding. All your eyes, his hair looks great. And like, and to me, he's in your salon getting her hair done, being like, they do bad hair. I know. I'm like, what was that? And then the box she gave Taylor, we've had like at the Christmas party, like the present, we've had so many people like, where can I buy the box of goodies? And so I'm like, oh, I need to like sell those on my website. It's all my products. Like the Taylor box, like just things like that. Yeah. No, so smart. Yeah. Crushing it. Yeah. Thank you. Our fifth and

My final story is some TV news that will lead into a little TV recap because Summer House reunion part, no final part, they took their shots of milk. Oh, so it's two parts. It's two parts. Good. Cause you know what? Even when I went to turn it on last night, I'm like, this show is still on. Like I've still moved on from it. I've had a long week and you know,

I had to do the redheads and I got sick. And then I'm like, I literally threw my guts up. I'm like, I have to watch Summer House? - Yeah. And reunions are sometimes hard to get through. - Yeah, but I was just glad for it to be two parts 'cause every part, like everything that they talked about was like core stuff and now there's no third part. - 'Cause sometimes housewives do like four or five parts. - Yeah. - It's like, that's too much. - You know what I feel like now everyone's moving on to like Love Island,

But some summer house season is over and it is so good timing. Put a pin in all of it. But Paige then announced this morning that she's not coming back to summer house after seven seasons. She put out an Instagram story saying that she's like so thankful for her time on the show, but she has a life update. She made the decision not to return to summer house.

I feel like this is the first in a series of dominoes that are about to fall as the show changes. You watch Summer House. Yes, I do. I'm not surprised at all. I think Paige has outgrown Summer House. She's on to bigger and better things. I think she has like, you know, to give up all of her weekends for the summer to go film the show. Like, there's better things you could be doing. Like, she's friends with Ciara and Amanda, but like, it's not like this is what she would be doing if she wasn't on the show. Right, like in a share house with a bunch of kids. I think that

Kyle will hold on until the wheels fall off. I don't think he'll ever leave. Like it's his livelihood. It's his whole life, it feels like. But I feel like Paige, it was time. Like seven years, I think is a good run. And I also think that like, you don't want to stay on a show until it's done. You kind of want to like leave while you're ahead. Yeah. And with like the wind at your back

Like I think it's a good time to go. - She just opened her brand, like Daphne, she just announced that. Did you see that? Like it's a good time to, also it's making news about her. So it's good. - Yeah, and I think like Lindsay's obviously her role is gonna be changing. They're gonna obviously have to cast new people who are gonna be younger. Then like the schism continues to grow of like people who go out and people who don't. And it's like, we need to go back to like the Jersey Shore template of like young people, single in the house, like DTF.

like I loved her being in the bed but like that's not what we need to be watching yeah and I feel like her with like Giggly Squad is like way more a better format for like girly chit chat yes I agree but you're right we need like feral young people in this house we only had one couple like hooking up in the house and that was what the whole story was because of it why isn't everyone single in Summer House like right that's what it should be I know but like you said that Kyle's not leaving the show no so don't you think no I mean even after last night which uh

we'll recap the reunion. So many things about the reunion rubbed me the wrong way. Even the beginning, like they were talking about like Lexi and Jesse and like everyone's just like gaslighting Lexi into being like, oh no, we never didn't like you. Like Jesse didn't say these things. Meanwhile, they can like barely look at her when they're talking to her. And it's on camera. They're like totally just like dismissive of her. And then they'll like try and say, oh, give all that smoke to Jesse. You know, when you're mad at him, like don't bring Sierra into it.

But then like they don't give any smoke to Jesse. Like every joke he makes, they're laughing so hard. Like, oh, Jesse, you want to date Sierra? Jesse, you want to date Paige? And it's like I felt really sad for her. And she had like tears in her eyes because at one point like when they like were on a break, Gabby was like, are you okay? And she just like got emotional. Like, no, she's it's a really weird spot for her to be. And I feel like people are being like unfair to her for no reason when she seems like a nice girl who came into the house. She doesn't really have like an ally.

- Right, and she has Gabby, but Gabby's not full on in the cast. I feel like she's supportive as a friend, but she's not gonna get in there. - It's different than having Paige on your side or Lindsay. - A heavy hitter. - Yeah, exactly. And I watched your interview with Lexi and I thought she was so sweet and down to earth and well-spoken. I mean, she's way too good for him, for sure. But I just felt bad for her because he's that charming, doofus guy that just gets a pass for being dumb 'cause he's funny and cute.

I don't like that. And she said, she's like, he's not as dumb as you guys think that he is. Like he's smart. And she, the whole season she's been saying like he could sort of like manipulated situations to isolate her. Yeah. And I remember I had said, I don't think he manipulated them, but I do think he inadvertently isolated her. Yeah. But after last night, I think like things might be a little more nefarious than I originally thought. Like, I think he is a little more intentional about,

And I don't know exactly what happened, but like, I don't think this just like all happened by accident. Cause like Jesse's a big dummy. Like he's really starting to lose points in my book. Like he's looking calculated? Yeah, a little bit. I don't know to what end, but I could see him maybe just to the end again of being an idiot, but I could see him like during the week being like, these girls aren't your friend. You know, don't trust anyone in the house because like,

that's decent advice on a reality show. You shouldn't really trust anyone in your first season. But also like, then why trust him? But right, then it just makes her cling to him more and it like creates fertile ground for this environment that was like not good for her. Exactly. So I felt like sad for her and I was just like getting a pit. I didn't like how it was all playing out. And like, I just felt like everyone's like goofing around with Jesse when like he's the villain in this story and they'll say, yeah, you're the bad guy. But like, if you're chumming up to the bad guy, how bad do you think he really is? No, I agree with you. I...

That's what sucks is like I wanted the girls to be girls' girls and it felt like certain scenes of the season, like around the pool at parties, they would be girls' girls to her and then they would just like go to Jessie and like forget all of that and,

I don't know. It's like, it's confusing. Like, how do they really feel? Do you think there's a part of them that's like, oh, Lexi's a newcomer. Like, Jesse's been here. So we have to side with him. I think they just like him, you know? So it's like, it's also weird. It's like, they like him and they're friends with him. And they're also telling her when they're being girls, girls by the way, they're telling her not to date him. But it's like, wait, but you like him as a friend. So why isn't he good enough to be my boyfriend? Exactly. And you would, you're joking around that he should date Sierra, but why not me? And they would support it if she dated him. They really would.

- They really would. They say like it's a joke, but like it's not, we all watch the season like- - Do you think they've hooked up? - I don't because Ciara had said like, she said in last reunion, like we did worse, but she was talking about to them kissing by the pool. So I feel like if there was worse, that would have been the time for her to say it. - Oh, you're right, you're right. Unless they just like made a blood oath, like we're not telling anyone. - Yeah. - 'Cause I think about this shows on, you know, they're filming for three months. Like there's, you know, so many months that like they were hanging out together the night of Lexi's birthday party.

- Yeah. - That things have happened. - And like, Sierra made Lexi feel so bad for bringing that up on a podcast. - I know. - But I don't think Lexi, like she just said what happened. I had a birthday party, I invited two people. Those two people didn't come and they hung out together that day. - That was true. - Right. - She didn't say their intentions. - There's no shade. Like that's just what happened. So it makes you feel like those two people. - Like why get so defensive? You know, like there's just a part of me that's like, did they? - And then like even when they went on break, Lexi's like groveling to Sierra, like, I'm sorry that I put you up. Like I really didn't mean to like. - No. - And it was just really,

- It was icky to me. - So do you think that next season they're gonna like recast or like, do you think Lexi will still be there? - So there was a do more blind item like a few days ago that Paige is, well, you know, she used code names, but like Paige is leaving Summer House. - Oh, they knew. - And that like Lexi, Gabby and a bunch of people are out.

- So far, half of the item is true because Paige just left. - Yes. - But I think anybody could have told you Paige just left. - Yeah. - I will be shocked if they don't keep Lexi. I think she is perfect for reality television. I think she's like all in on season two. I feel like- - She was the most relevant storyline. - We're just getting to know her. It'll be interesting to see her and Jesse in a house together. - Yes. - To see how she is as a single person without him, like where she meets someone else.

So I have a hard time believing that blind item, but we shall see. No, I think she did so good. She's also like been on a press tour. I feel like they wouldn't prop her up if she wasn't relevant to them. Yeah, I think that she's valuable. I don't know how you get a better casting than her. She like obviously has millions of followers. She's very beautiful. She's a warm heart and a big personality and like is only getting more comfortable on reality television. I don't think this is the time to like cut her. No, I would be shocked by that.

And I hope Gabby stays on. I think she's a value add, even if she's not a heavy hitter. What makes you feel that way? Because for me, she kind of feels like she's just there. I feel like she's supportive for the girls who need support. Like even last season, like Lindsay was on the outs with everyone and Gabby was just like, you need, even if you're isolated and feeling like the villain, like you need a

friend it's a very like for your mental health but also then we get to see you talking to someone and sharing your side like I just think she's a really good sounding board I think she gives like sound advice that's what she is you're right and I think that's necessary not everyone is gonna be high drama like slinging insults and hooking up with people you're right you're right we need that grounding effect yeah how did you feel about Danielle like popping in after like leaving

Danielle cracks me up. She's like the world's worst best friend. Yes, that's so true. I'm like every time she comes around, I'm like, what? But the less she's on, the more I forget like all of the things about her that bothered me. And then she comes on and she does something like so classic Danielle, like telling Lindsay she can't be on the show anymore. And it's like, girl, you're not on the show anymore. But you came back. Lindsay can do whatever she wants. Exactly.

So she just like actually cracks me up at this point. Yeah, no, I agree. Like she's very true to herself. I'll give her that. But it's just funny that she like left and then like popped in. I'm like, what? Yeah. Then also they talked about like Kyle and Amanda, like their journey to parenthood and like if it's going to happen. Yeah. And it's funny because it's like,

Kyle and Amanda seem like they're in a good place and they've said they're in a good place, but they always are like that at a reunion. They're like, seriously, the world's worse summer. And then they're like, we've talked and we're good. Like we're understanding. But I do feel like in real life, like Amanda is so fed up with him to the point that she doesn't care to like talk trash about him on the show, which is like good for the show and that she's being honest. But it's like, she's just like slinging insults. Like you don't come home, you're out, you come home and then you start working and then you have dinner with me and then you go back to work and then you wake up early and you work out. And it's like,

that seems like personal business like i feel like she's like big mad about his lifestyle choices do you think this will work out in the long run i want to say yes because every time that i thought that they would or should break up they don't so but do you think it's because of summer house like they're this couple on the show like what if the show ends or they leave like do you think that would like dissipate i feel like for a

- I feel like for Amanda, she's not so driven by that. You can make that argument for like other people and other relationships on TV. Like it's good for them. - You're right. - Like even bachelor couples. But like, I don't feel like she's so driven by the show. - Kyle is, but not her. - Yeah. I feel like she's sort of like fallen into reality TV and like, and not every season is like about her and she like, she's just sort of.

there and doesn't like make her choices yeah by what's good for the show the fact that this year she was like oh I don't know if I want kids anymore I think that says more to the relationship than it does like what she really wants yes and that's what they were saying on the episode last night she said like he said well you're are you ready for kids and she's like well I'm ready for kids for someone who wants kids yeah that's what it is but I also feel like it's a little bit of like

each one wanting to like, like play chicken with each other. Cause like if I'm ready for kids and I have a husband, like, and even if he's not acting, like you will act right. Like I'm going to have my kids. Yeah. You're not putting your life on hold. Right. I feel like it's a little bit like whatever reservation she has, she's like making it seem like, well, it's because of Kyle. You know what I mean? Okay. I get what you're saying. Like she could be using that as like a front. Yeah. And cause you're already said like, maybe she's not ready for kids, but I feel like

it's not like if she were so like adamantly i want kids right now like you would go and have kids and like you start to figure it out if that's your person you didn't leave him all the other times that like you could have left him like then you will figure it out yeah that's true i'm interested to see what happens with them they are one couple i can't figure out yeah so i am interested as well and then they talked about craig and paige and lover boy and spritz they talked about like all the drama in light of now paige not being with craig and they were like

Do you regret defending him? Or like, do you see it differently? And then what they had pretty much said was like, Paige didn't really know the details of what Craig was doing or telling her because she...

she they feel like Craig didn't even know what he was doing or telling her. Yeah, it was not a good episode for Craig. But that conversation also rubbed me the wrong way. Of course, it's like a co owner. Yeah, in Spritz, just because like they were making Craig out to seem like so bad for like what he did and how he lied. Why? What's wrong about it? I don't get it. Yeah. So first of all, he has an opportunity to collaborate with a ready to drink brand. There are a million. The idea that he has to go and run it by Kyle is

- Kyle's not even on his cast. - Right, he's on a separate show from a guy on this show who has a business too. Like, "Hey, can I do this?" Like, what is Kyle king of the world? - The weird, weird. - If Amanda wanted to do like a home care collab or a home like brand, nobody would think, "Well, what does Craig think?" So I think just in general, like Paige being like, "Well, you have to talk to Kyle."

is so far-fetched but the fact that he even did talk to Kyle was like nice of him yeah I don't know exactly what happened in their conversation and I think that's where like the liar thing is coming in I know we talked about it like literally a year ago and that's when we did like Craig 20 so I'm sure I could go back and listen but just on its face it's like why can't Craig

do a partnership with a drink brand. The only reason it wouldn't be okay is if he was ever in a contract with Loverboy, which he wasn't. Kyle owns the company outright. He's very proud of that. He doesn't even pay or give percentages to the people on his show who shill for his brand every single week. Wow. For years now. It's the Loverboy show. He gives no one anything. So why would Craig think that he could go and have a partnership with Kyle when he won't even give partnership to the people that actually work with him? No, that's crazy. And it was so crazy because they were making Craig out to

to be, and like, you know, the spritz collab, like just to all be like nefarious. But the previous segment was all about like Kyle's toxic work relationship with lover boy and how he literally can't start a family because of lover boy and how he's all in on lover boy all the time. And it's like, okay. And you guys are knocking this like thriving family owned business. And we bring in family and we bring in friends and we bring in partners and we're team lover boy. Like I'm not T that's creating a big issue in your marriage. And you just said that toxic, toxic,

The toxic thing now in the next conversation is like the end all be all. Meanwhile, that brand is the reason why Kyle's wife can't even go see Paige perform at Radio City with Hannah. Like, so the fact that history is repeating itself. Yeah. No one's like well enough to be like,

maybe this wasn't right the first time let's not do it again yes so it was just it was so was the whole cast on kyle's side yeah that's weird and also like craig's not there to defend himself so that sucks yeah and it's just like so he came out with like a collaboration with an another spritz brand like is it weird to see like your like well it was weird to be watching and i'm like wait is this play about us exactly because

Cause it, cause it is. And like, they don't talk, they don't say like spritz directly, but they're like saying team lover, which is anti spritz. So I'm like, Hey, yeah, it's funny because even though we had all that drama a year ago, whenever I watch the show, I literally forget. Yes. Yeah. But then I'm watching last night. It just like bothered me. I'm like,

Wait, you're talking about the same brand that's literally ruining Kyle's life that he exploits his cast members for, doesn't pay anyone, and he's mad that Craig is working with another drink brand. It just doesn't make logical sense. Like, he has no right to be mad. No, and that it became this, like, big thing when the original sin is actually not that bad, but now you guys want to, like...

clown on him for doing it and then like how he did it when it's like we're having fun here. So even Paige was like yeah Craig. I don't know that people over there are having fun. No. Yeah well Paige you know won't defend Craig. Yeah you're right she's not going to you're right. Yeah. So I guess that makes sense but still. And then she shared like other stuff about their relationship and like times that like she lied for him like even that he was asked to leave Kyle and Amanda's wedding. Oh yeah what was that about? So it turned out to be true and then she was like

When Danielle fed that story to the magazine or whatever, like it was more so I was mad that she would feed a story. None of us would do that about one another. But she was saying like there were a lot of times with like his drinking that like she had to, you know, tell like little lies to like get them out of stuff. But Craig had said that on Southern Charm this season. He said like that he was like, he's an addict. And that early in his relationship with Paige, like she was the one who like helped him like come out of that and like get help and like be a better person. And he's, he's, um,

he's not in, he's sober from hard alcohol, but like still drinks like wine and beer. Still drink spritz, you know, still drink spritz. No, literally like same. So it's just, yeah, no, it's just like him not mixing well with liquor. Yeah. Like the harder stuff. And, and like ever since whatever, I don't know what his rock bottom would have been. Maybe, maybe there were some, no, Shep's was BravoCon. Oh yeah. Shep was, yeah. But,

But I don't know what it was for him. But like in the last few years, he's been like so focused on like cleaner living. And that was actually an issue on Southern Charm because he was like shutting out all his friends. He's like, I just want to be in my backyard. And so and be with my bees because like it grounds me and I don't like feel temptation. So I felt like we started to understand what Craig's been going through, which is good. So now Paige is like talking more about like

The Dark Time. Yeah. But it wasn't so surprising for people who have watched Southern Charm who, like, knew that he went through a lot of that. He put Paige through a lot and, like, she helped him through it. And he owned it. Yeah. That's good. But it sucks that it's now coming up again because he doesn't have a voice in it. Right. So now, I don't know. We have to wait till...

Craig's on toast. Yeah. He's got to come back and give his side now. Yeah. But that's what's frustrating about the two shows. It's like even at the last Southern Charm reunion, Craig talked a lot about what happened with Paige. And when you're watching it, you're like, oh my God. Were they broken up for his reunion? Yes. Oh, I didn't realize. Okay. And then we don't get her responses till this reunion, maybe four months later. Yes. And even

the way Andy recapped it, you know, I have such beef with Andy. Do you really? He's so bad at his job. Oh, I didn't know that. Give me the details. I need to know why. He's always in a bad mood on Watch What Happens Live. I don't watch that. He's so impatient with his guests unless it's someone he's like obsessed with and then he's so up their butts. Oh, it's like a stark contrast. Yeah, like you could tell when he's in a bad mood when he's like annoyed if someone's taking too long to answer or like thinking about their answer. This is my perception. And

I just like... I need to go watch with like a different angle. That's crazy. Some episodes he's happy to be there. Like last night I watched... Oh, last night he was on one I watched with Amanda and Kristen Cavallari. Oh, okay. Because her show... This is like the week of reality TV. That's why I'm like, I'm still watching Summer House. I have to watch Very Cavallari, the podcast tour. The first two episodes come out. I want to watch that. She's awesome. She's awesome. So it was a really fun episode. He was...

not bad mood Andy. He was like because it was them. Maybe because it was them. I don't know. Like he also had a beard. So and everyone. Oh, OK. Something's going on. They always say that he like favors men, too. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard that. Yep. That's so shocking to be in such a good mood around two women. Yeah. Like interesting. Very interesting. But they played this like new game called Truth Bomb where like he has to like

It's very physical for him. He's like, what? He holds his bomb and he's like the truth bomb. And it's like, what are you going to do when you guys are playing truth bombing? You're in a bad mood. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he must've like known like, okay, I'm doing this today. I have to be in a good mood or something. Or like, we'll only do truth bomb when I'm like feeling it. And I took my happy pills. Yeah. Okay. That's actually funny. Cause is it every night?

- Most nights, yeah. - So, I mean, you're just seeing an up and down constantly. Okay, I need to watch and like pay attention. - Yeah, you could just like tell when he's like impatient. I know he worries about like getting to the commercial breaks. He's got a lot to fit in. - Is it actually live? - Yeah, most of them. Some days aren't. It depends if there's like a show on that night. Like last night was live. They're recapping the show. - Okay, okay. That's a lot of pressure. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That would be hard. - Yeah, but he's enjoying it forever. - But still, like it's your job.

Do you not know how to fake it? Yeah. No, I don't know. It just like really bothers me. He's like, sometimes like rude to people or like if he's not interested in the guests, cause they come from a show he doesn't watch. He just like doesn't ask follow up questions. Oh, that's awful. I don't expect him to know everything under the sun, but like,

I don't know. Sometimes it's just like not the vibe. But anyways, I always joke about it. But last night when he was like saying what Craig said on the reunion of Southern Charm, he was like to Paige, well, Craig said you guys like broke up and got back together and then you broke up again. Like that's not what Craig said. And what Paige said, like that was just like a misrepresentation. What Paige said was the same impression that we got from Craig, which is that they broke up right after Thanksgiving.

Then like it was over the phone though. So like they needed to have like a final conversation. I think maybe Craig held out hope that it would be different. Yeah. And then when he came to New York for Watch What Happens Live, the beginning of the Southern Charm premiere, they had a conversation in New York and that was the official breakup. Okay. So in those few days, they had only broken up over the phone. So it's probably still like a new and also, you know, let's talk this through. It doesn't mean we're on and off again. Yeah. And then he went on Watch What Happens Live and of course didn't say they broke up because either they were breaking up that night or that night.

that morning but like they had also broken up she said they broke up once last February or something oh okay so like if you tell us every time you break up like we don't need to know the minute you break up no you never know what could happen and also like then people have opinions and you're like oh but wait we're good now like you don't need to get people involved I that I completely understand yeah like take a few weeks make sure it's real and if they broke up in February was a few days a few weeks she said a weekend oh oh no one needs to know

- I know about that. - Right, right, right, right. Like until now it like adds color to the fact that like there were rocky times. - Yes. - But if you broke up on a Friday, you don't need to tell us on Instagram and then on Sunday be back together. - No, it's the Taylor and Dakota effect. Like if you follow them on TikTok, it's like we're back together, we're broken up, we're back together, we're broken up. And it's so toxic for your actual relationship because then everyone's involved. - Yeah. - I actually think that that's for the best that they hid that. - And like that, when you're breaking up, then you worry, like what are people gonna think? But it's like, if you don't have to worry about telling people yet,

You can process how you actually feel. Yes. Who do you see Taylor ending up with?

I think about this a lot because I think Taylor needs to be alone for a while. Like I think she needs to like process like her trauma. I need her to have like a businessman. But that's what I was going to say. She needs someone older in like finance or like just like a real business daddy. Like she needs someone like that who's like grounded, mature. She can't have someone who's like playing these stupid games. Yeah. But I guess she needs to be alone so that when that person comes along, like she's ready because the Taylor of today, I don't know her, but like

she's got a lot going on. And even if like Prince charming, like,

swept her off her feet with a billion dollars, like she might not be able to even like recognize that it's right for her. - Yeah, I think she's also so used to the up and down cycle with Dakota that I think when you're in a relationship like that, you take those habits into the next one. - Time for healing. - Yeah, she creates the chaos. - That's so boring, but like-- - I know. - It's necessary for the next chapter. - Well, when you have three kids and you're like in your 30s, it's like that is the next chapter. Like you need peace. And I think once she gets the peace and accepts it, she's gonna be so happy.

So I can't wait to see who she ends up with. Me too. But I guess we'll be waiting a little bit, but that's what will be better for the longevity. Yes. Of the next person. Not great for TV, but like great for her real life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. Well, thank you so much for joining me and doing the work of the fast five and recapping. So fun. The best show on television, reviving reality TV and like showing everyone like, my God, we can still make good reality TV. I feel like people thought like, well,

everyone knows too much people are jaded they come on they want to protect all their interests but then like secret lives and Mormon wise said hold my beer hold my what are you drinking dirty soda what are you drinking for coffee outside of Utah um so I had Dunkin this morning okay but that's just because that's what was on DoorDash yeah but it's like yucky yeah it's just like an ice latte yeah it wasn't amazing but what do you drink like is it like local coffee shops here um

- Not for me, I do Nespresso at home. - Okay, yeah. - I would love a Pargy coffee, but I just feel like everywhere, every time I meet, I also think I just don't like coffee 'cause I'll have a coffee, I'm like, this is gross. - Yeah, no. - But it's coffee. - I'm the same way, I like to drink white coffee. Have you had white coffee? - No, I need to come. - It doesn't taste like coffee. - Well, we come to Utah all the time. - You do? - Yeah, we love like,

spending like Christmas break in Utah. - What? Where at? - Park City. - Oh, duh. Park City's the best. - We've been there like five times. - Okay, so next time you come, we have to take you to Swig. Like we'll take you on the Mormon Wives tour. - Yeah, no, we're going on the tour. We need a bus.

I'm dying. That's so crazy you've been. Yeah, we love it. I hope to be back soon. Yeah, you should come back. Park City is where I want to retire. Like I would love to live up there and like it's just quieter up there. It's so nice. It's so nice. But even like we've also stayed like out in Caymus. Oh, yes. That place is great too. Rural Utah. Do you just rent houses? Oh, that's so good. I love that. We love Utah. So you were a Mormon wife before we moved.

- No, I'm like seriously, it's also the most beautiful state. Like even when Whitney and Miranda took their kids to the park and like the mountain backdrop. - Oh yeah, it looks like a snow globe. - It's insane. - Mountains everywhere. And I'm so used to it that when I travel, I'm like, well, this is so weird, but I do love Utah.

It's so beautiful. Like, even Rach Parcell, Utah queen. We have a lot of, like, Pargy influencers there. The vibes are so Pargy. It's hard not to be. It breeds, like, everyone from Dancing with the Stars, like, entrepreneurs. Like, it is crazy. Yeah. Like, Utah's, like, a little bubble of, like, I don't know. No, I love it. I love, like, being there. I love...

watching it it's so great thank you for coming it's so nice to meet you where can everyone follow you and mom talk yes so it's underscore just Jessie and it has like four eyes at the end um but just Jessie if you type that in you can find it anywhere TikTok and Instagram and then

We actually don't have like a mom talk Instagram or TikTok, which we should. But everyone just kind of has their own. Everyone has their own. Yeah. But Secret Lives on Hulu is our tag for like Instagram and TikTok. And that's where you can get all the updates. The reunion's getting announced today. So hopefully that'll get a little buzz going and people will get excited. Can't wait. But you were the first to know. I am so excited. That will tide me over until part two. Yes. Yes, exactly. Thank you so much. We love you. Bye.