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I'm Nate Silver. And I'm Maria Konnikova. We're journalists who moonlight as high-stakes poker players. And on our podcast, Risky Business, we bring an analytical lens, thinking about odds, incentives, and outcomes to the choices shaping our democracy. Because every move in politics is a calculation, and sometimes our leaders can make bad bets.

You don't say, Nate. If you want to understand what our politicians are thinking and what's at stake with each decision they make, this show is for you. Listen to Risky Business wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, Los Angeles? Welcome to Love It or Leave It, live from Dynasty Typewriter. Great day. We've got a great show for you tonight.

Drag race icon whose name is a rare pun that only works in an accent. Court. I gotta fucking do it. Courtney Act is here. Courtney Act. That's how you have to do it. Courtney Act. Because Courtney Act doesn't do anything. Doesn't make any sense. You have to say Courtney Act. Survivor legend Parvati Shallow is here. Also of Traders fame. Three of us are going to talk about our equally successful reality careers. Then we take our favorite reel for a villainous spin. Hmm.

But first, let's get into it. What a week. On Saturday, President Trump deployed 2,000 California National Guard troops to Los Angeles after protests against ICE sweeps in the city led to instances of vandalism and violence. LA's been in the news too much this year. Deadly wildfires and a military deployment were collectively too hot for this. The LAPD made clear that as one of the largest police departments in the world, with 17 helicopters, including one that I believe is assigned above my house...

It did not need and would not have requested the assistance because if we don't use these rubber bullets by the end of the summer, they go bad. They get soft and then it starts to feel good. Too good. Trump's obvious goal was to sow chaos, which is exactly what he got at protests in downtown L.A. on Sunday. A group of demonstrators set several Waymo self-driving taxis on fire. Jesus. Still got to Bestia just fine, though. So don't worry about that.

We got an email. We talked about this on the pod whenever we recorded the pod earlier this week. And we joked about the fact that there were reports that people were calling Waymo's to the protest to set them on fire, which is very kind of Wally. You know, it's like, why are you doing this? I'm here to help. I know nothing of ice. We got an email from like PR at Waymo saying, actually, there's no evidence that that happened. But I know you guys just like to joke around. It's like, OK, OK.

How'd they get there? Meanwhile, National Guard troops who were deployed at an estimated cost of $134 million arrived without lodging and were photographed sleeping on floors. Hang in there, fellas. That was Jacob Elordi before Euphoria. Hold on to the dream. Trump went further Monday, mobilizing another 2,000 National Guard troops and more than 700 Marines. Semper Fi, more like Semper finally gonna try that Haley Bieber smoothie. I love that joke. I don't care.

Except we're finally gonna try that Hailey Bieber smoothie. As the escalation continued, Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, threatened to arrest anyone who obstructed immigration enforcement and wouldn't rule out arresting California Governor Gavin Newsom or L.A. Mayor Karen Bass. Good luck, Dick, because if I know Mayor Bass, she'll be out of the country at the first sign of trouble. Newsom had this response. He's a tough guy. Why doesn't he do that? He knows where to find me. But you know what?

Let your hands off four-year-old girls that are trying to get educated. Come after me. Arrest me. Let's just get it over with. And then Newsom added... Let me in! Kill me! Come on! Do it now! Kill me! And then on Tuesday... Standing in front of uniformed members of the military, Trump accused Newsom and Bass of paying protesters in our own city. In Los Angeles, the governor of California, the mayor of Los Angeles...

What's sad is how much cheaper it is to protest in Vancouver. Like, even if it involves...

sending the agitators that are from Los Angeles. It is cheaper to bring the whole protest to Vancouver. We have got to bring protests back to Los Angeles. Some kind of a tax thing. We've got to fix it.

Later that very day, before seeing Les Mis of course, we got this stellar moment with Trump and his wife of many years, Melania.

My contract for tonight very clear I am not speak

J.D. Vance was also in attendance, and he tweeted this before the show. He said, So just for those keeping track, knowing what Les Mis is, gay. Knowing what a Sondheim musical is, straight as hell.

Remember when he was talking about the essence of masculinity? Yeah, me too. Speaking of miserables, on Thursday, Democratic Senator Alex Padilla crashed DHS Secretary Kristi Noem's L.A. press conference and got physically wrestled from the room. I'm Senator Alex Padilla. I have questions for the secretary because the fact of the matter is a half a dozen selling criminals that you're rotating on your...

See, that's what makes Gaga amazing. She can sing while doing the moves. Anyone can do a studio album. I also, when I saw this, I didn't realize I had a separate deeper chamber of stress diarrhea to unlock. In the full video, you can see Senator Padilla forced to the ground and handcuffed by police. This is now the second most badass Alex Padilla clip right after his smooth tortilla rolling technique.

That's cool as hell. Padilla had to deal with all this just for asking a question and the question wasn't "Who wants to see this Waymo burn?"

DHS spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin blamed Padilla for the row tweeting, "Senator Padilla chose disrespectful political theater and interrupted a live press conference without identifying himself or having his Senate security pin on as he lunged towards Secretary Noem and Secret Service thought he was an attacker and officers acted appropriately." But we hear him say in that video out loud, "I'm Senator Alex Padilla."

He does not lunch. They're lying about something we can debunk with our eyeballs and our ear holes. In some way, that's even more ominous than shoving and handcuffing a senator. But in other ways, is it? Anyway, this is a comedy show. Padilla spoke with the press afterwards where he said this. I was there peacefully. At one point, I had a question. And so I began to ask a question. I was almost immediately, forcibly removed from the room.

I was forced to the ground and I was handcuffed. While on Fox News, Noam stuck with the unidentified lunger theory.

And this man burst into the room, started lunging towards the podium, interrupting me and elevating his voice and was stopped, did not identify himself and was removed from the room. So as soon as he identified himself, you know, appropriate actions were taken. They keep describing a 52-year-old senator and software engineer announcing himself while speaking calmly as lunging. Next, they'll tell us that a second Alex Padilla has collided with the podium. LAUGHTER

Do I need to say it? A second Alex Padilla has hit the podium. But hey, if you're gonna march into authoritarianism, why not do it in style? The military parade for Trump's birthday on Saturday is expected to cost at least $45 million, of which $16 million has been set aside to repair D.C. roads that will be damaged by heavy tanks rolling through town. But when Cory Booker runs out in front of a tank Tiananmen Square-style and announces a book called Stand Two, Stand Harder... Priceless.

If you're hearing this Saturday morning, go out and fucking protest. Do it right now. Go to votesaveamerica.com slash no kings and you can find one near you. Let's make sure everybody gets out there. Everybody here going to be out there? Yeah, good.

Speaking of fucked up roads to be on, Health and Human Service Secretary RFK Jr. announced Monday that he was retiring all 17 members of the advisory committee that reviews vaccine data and makes recommendations to the CDC. Bad news, among the eight new advisors chosen to replace the old panel are a number of vaccine skeptics and deniers. Good news, shorter lines at the toy store this Christmas. LAUGHTER

Speaking of people who don't go to the toy store, on Tuesday, Elon Musk tweeted, I regret some of my posts about real Donald Trump last week. They went too far. Sad. It seems last week's ketamine is wearing off, allowing Elon Musk to see his actions in the cold light of this week's ketamine. And speaking of feuds, on Wednesday, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul told reporters that he'd been uninvited from the White House picnic over his opposition to Trump's big, beautiful bill.

You'd think someone like Rand Paul would have built up more of a tolerance to being left out of stuff. Just so everybody knows.

That was a very brief excerpt of Rand Paul's full remarks about being uninvited to the White House picnic, which continued for over seven minutes. Trump later posted a message clarifying that of course Rand Paul is invited to his picnic. What a roller coaster. My heart is fucking pounding.

wrote Trump, of course Senator Paul and his beautiful wife and family are invited to the big White House party tonight. He's the toughest vote in the history of the U.S. Senate, but why wouldn't he be? The only thing more embarrassing than getting uninvited from a big party is getting re-invited after you make a big public stink about it. Hey, so good to see you. It's me from the tantrum. But hey, a pity invite is still an invite. How do you think I got invited to the White House for the first time? Pope Leo XIV?

Went full Chicago Pope and donned a White Sox hat during an appearance at the Vatican on Wednesday. Said a Cubs fan, we'll get the next Pope from Chicago. British researchers examining the vet records of over 2 million dogs found which breeds were most prone to diarrhea. Turns out it's something called the gallon of liquid shih tzu. That's...

In fact, the wrist was actually hired for six breeds, the Maltese, the Miniature Poodle, Cavapoo, German Shepherd, and Yorkshire Terrier. I'm not sure why the researchers would refer to those breeds as the John Lovitz of the dog world, but any press is good press, I guess. A lot of diarrhea material today. Plus the jokes about it in the show. A federal judge. Yeah, shut up. Shut up. Still got it.

Still got it. A federal judge on Monday dismissed Justin Baldoni's $400 million defamation suit against Blake Lively, her husband, Rylan Reynolds, and the New York Times.

The deal was you can do anything you want to me as long as the suit stays on, said Ryan Reynolds in his Deadpool costume as the judge did his stretches. Costume stays on. Speaking of getting around, Brian Wilson, legendary member of the Beach Boys, died this week at the age of 82. Said Rhonda, hanging up the paddles, I did everything I could. You get it.

Coming up, it's Courtney Act and Parvati Shallow. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. This is an ad by BetterHelp. There's a lot of stigma around mental health and the strength that comes from maintaining a healthy mind. Men today face immense pressure to perform, to provide, to keep it all together. Unlike women who have had it easy for far too long.

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But to me, you know, there's all these like, you know, you watch these Fox News people who say, oh, masculinity means you can't drink from a straw. You can't talk about your feelings. Why is it stronger to be able to do less? Wouldn't it be stronger to be able to do more? Like get the help you need without feeling embarrassed? Isn't that what strength is? Go to therapy, bring a straw. Yeah, that's right.

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The Essential Mango Coconut Freeze. It makes its appearance at the dinner party, right when the night could go either way between nice evening and legendary. Served in eight perfect stoneware bowls to the sounds of circa 1950 bossa nova. Seconds, a good debate, and an impromptu round of never have I ever follow. It's gonna be a late one. The Essential Evening Extender, made possible with Vitamix.

And we're back. At the risk of getting voted off my own show and deserving it, please welcome to the stage two absolute queens of reality TV. It's Parvati Shallow and Courtney Act. Hi. Hi. Nice to see you. Oh my gosh. Get in here. Courtney Act. That's how you say it. Popped a button as I sat down. Courtney Act. We heard a lot of jokes about diarrhea when we were back there. I forgot that. I forgot that you both could hear that.

I have a question for you. Were you on Survivor long enough to... On his own show. I'm so excited to find out what this is. Choose violence. But this is actually a real question and it relates to diarrhea. So I feel like we're really on topic. Were you on Survivor long enough to have had a relationship with coconuts such that you understand that coconuts are a natural laxative? I will say...

Yes. Only, yeah. Well, it, yeah. Yes. That's all we needed to know.

Courtney. Yes. Parvati and I have actually talked at length quite recently, and so we wanted to catch you up. And that'll start by just showing you how I did on Survivor. Let's roll the clip. Looking at my tribe, I'm realizing I'm not getting to know a group of people. I'm getting to know a group of young people. I am 41 years old.

Okay, so I'm old now. No, I really like that. There's so much back in my day stuff coming out of my mouth, but being a speechwriter, I learned that you need to be able to put yourself in other people's shoes. I'm addicted to TikTok. So good. All the boomers were like, we gotta make TikTok. And I'm just like, I need my videos of like dogs getting adopted. I'm realizing that I'm the oldest person here, but I'm not gonna let that stop me from trying to build things with these people.

Was that like Survivor Junior or something? It was really cute. It was so cute. They were all 12. They were young. Yeah, well, people keep getting younger as you get older. Isn't that strange? It's so weird. It's so strange. I used to be the youngest. I know. Do you know? Well, there's somebody who, a quote, which is, there's no such thing as a 30-year-old prodigy. Remember that? The...

I interviewed Mamdani, Zora Mamdani today for Pod Save America, and I was like, oh my God, he's 33? Are you fucking kidding me? He's running to be mayor of New York. He's 33 years old. That's what we need, fresh representation. Woo!

But not too young. Because like, no offense 20 year olds, but you're idiots. Do you know what I mean? Like I was 20 once. I can say that. But like really, like you hear like, I love and am passionate and I love the energy and I love the vibe. But sometimes I'm just like, yes, yes. Yes, yes. Well, it's so hard to know the difference, right? Because sometimes it's...

Like, am I... Are you young or am I old? Right? You know what I'm saying? Like, are you saying something that I can't... Like, is a person... Like, it's very hard to tell the difference when you're 20 or when you're 40 if a 20-year-old is bringing an interesting and fresh perspective that I'm not ready to hear, or they're stupid. Well, I think you know if you had the same idea at your 20, but now you're old enough to be realistic like every other godless, money-hungry, miserable, backstabbing so-and-so. LAUGHTER

Yeah. You know what I mean? But if it's like a new idea that you're like, oh, I should have thought of that when I was 25. Let's do that. Let's do what that 25 year old says. Then it's a good idea. I would do what you're saying. I would do it. You're ageless also. I feel like you're from Death Becomes Her like you drank. Thank you. Now a warning. I could be the oldest person here. I'm not sure.

I would never know. No, we would never know. Well, we could know by asking and finding out. Apart from that, we could never know. Let's poll the audience. Every single one of you, starting with you. Wait, Courtney, you hosted E! The Bi Life, a dating show made up entirely of bisexuals.

Wow. Yeah. Were most of them truly bisexual? Oh, we're going to bi-erasure now, are we? No, I'm kidding. See, bisexuality is a spectrum. We can't erase bi people because half of crooked media would disappear. Boom.

You could be like, I don't know at what point it stops being a spectrum, but like, if you're like, see, I have sex with people of different genders, and one of my friends, who's a gay man, was like, you're just gay, you just sleep with women because you want to get with their hot boyfriend. And I was like, well, let's just say that's true for a minute. When was the last time you slept with a woman to get to her hot boyfriend? And he was like, never. And I was like, yeah, so it's different, right? Right. It's such an important point.

I'm opportunistic sexually. Greedy. Thank you. Nothing wrong with being greedy. Thank you. Oh, the show's going to get... Hi, Hallie. Hallie, everybody. Oh, you can't... Here, let me do it. Please, let me host. Thank you. It's like Phaedra on Traders. She couldn't... She just had boiled eggs. She couldn't... Just eating boiled... Wait. I got a boiled egg. What happened? She just loved boiled eggs. That can lead to diarrhea. Yeah.

Well, yeah, but I didn't know about anyone's diarrhea on Traders because it's not a talked about thing. Right, because there's just bathrooms there. There's just bathrooms. So it's like the normal world where you don't talk about it. Exactly, yeah. Huh. And regular food. It's just regular food. Straight up food. How was the food? No, it was weird. It was like a combination of every night it was low main, mashed potatoes, and beef wellington.

Yeah, because you're in Scotland. Scotland. So it's still not going to be... They're not known for their... Cuisine. Cuisine. Yeah. Yeah. I lost a survivor amount of weight. Really? Yeah. Wow. Because you didn't like the Scottish cuisine? I couldn't do it. It was like a plate of grey. Oh, yeah. That's the UK in general, really. You know what's an interesting difference between... Yeah. An interesting difference to me between the...

the UK version of the traders and the American version of the traders is in the UK version of the traders, everybody just leaves through the house and just goes, leaves and goes to wherever the hotel is. But in the American version, they have everyone pretend they're sleeping in the house. Does that mean at the end of every day, everybody shoots walking up the stairs and then you go back down the stairs and leave? I don't know what you're talking about. We live in a castle. We all sleep in the same bedroom with a silk duvet. Yeah.

And we all read the same book. She wants to be on All Stars. Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. There was one moment of the show where someone says like, someone started walking towards the door and somebody tapped them and was like, no, we're going to bed. I like that Traders doesn't take itself too seriously. Yeah,

Yeah, I like that too. I like that too. The cast was leaked today. I saw that. I saw that. I saw that. We got some survivors going out there. Yeah. Any thoughts on the cast? I love... Well, the survivors that are going out there is Jam Jam, Natalie Anderson, who I love and I think is going to be so good in the castle because she's so fierce.

And such a competitor and she's going to crash at the round table. That's what we need. And then Rob Sestranino. Yeah. The Rob Sestranino. Who has a podcast. Who has a podcast and has had a podcast for decades. It would be odd if somebody didn't have a podcast these days, to be honest. Yeah. Well, Rob was the first person who had a podcast. He's one of the greats.

Who's going to do his podcast? I've been on his podcast. How's it going to go when he's in Scotland doing Trader? Pre-record. He's thought this through. We don't have to worry about this. So wait, Courtney, you do have a podcast. I do. It's called R&R. It's called... R&R. You say in an American accent the letters R-N-R. R&R. And it sounds like R&R. R&R.

Thank you. I'm so glad you laughed. In your podcast, you go deep with guests like Nicole Byer and Margaret Cho. Parvati, your last name's shallow. It is. It always has been. So it's time for a segment we call Deep and Shallow Questions. So we have a mix of deep questions and shallow questions.

That's it. That's the format. Well, I try to go deep. But, you know, you come up with the concept for the podcast before you actually film it. And then you realize sometimes going deep is a real challenge. You try and go deep. But then you realize that it's kind of odd to talk to your friend of 15 years about like their childhood or... Their trauma. Yeah, because you've got too many jokes that you're making. You're having too much fun. But I think I got there.

It's cool to joke about trauma. Yeah. Yeah. Or die trying. You'll never die. You drank the potion. Some people are shallow.

They just don't have it. You scratch beneath the surface and you just get air down there. Is that a personal attack? No, no, no. You are a shallow, but we've had a long conversation. I think you're many layers to poverty. That's my thinking about it. I know I wasn't talking about you. I don't think you're shallow. I really don't. I genuinely don't. I'm not. I won't vote you out. I'm not going to re-traumatize you. Man, got out first.

I never even got to. You're the pork chop of Survivor. All right, so we have deep questions and we have shallow questions. Let's start with a shallow question. What do you think of the return of the tankini? Oh, she's pretty hot. She's famous. Oh, that's Bella Hadid. It says it there. Yeah, I mean, she's selling me the tankini right now.

Is that what a tankini is? Dorothy, Wizard of Oz. What is a tankini? Tank top bikini. Oh, this was like early 2000s, right? Yeah. Or 90s, late 90s. Deep question. Moving on. What will... Do you think there's something you're going to look back on from this time in your life and regret? No.

doing this podcast no i mean i'll get deep so there's a gentleman that i have sexual relations with i love drag in drag he's an olympian we actually met in hotel quarantine because remember during covert australia had those like the two weeks you had to lock down in a hotel before you could get into the country

So he is a heterosexual identifying Olympian who decided while in hotel quarantine that he would download Grindr. And I was also in hotel quarantine on Grindr and we matched and then we started chatting and then it came to Friday night and I had to get into drag to like film some content from inside hotel quarantine. And so we like

I ordered, you could like order cocktails. Oh, my pants popped again. You could order like cocktails and have them delivered back in that time, like pre-mixed margaritas. So I ordered him like a bottle of margaritas and then we FaceTimed and like had a date because we couldn't see each other because we're in quarantine. But you're in the same building. We're in the same building just across the hall. This is so hard.

I was like, what level are you on? Because I could make a dash for it. Like, it'd be worth it. This guy's fucking hot. It's not a prison. Were there guards in the hallways? Oh, yeah. I mean, it was quarantine. It was like, not guards with guns. It's not America. Sorry.

No, what am I thinking? Just Irish nurses, actually. But we still are in contact and, you know, hopping on the good foot and doing the bad thing occasionally. And we were messaging last night and he was like, I won't get to see you till September. Like, send me some photos or videos. Now, I don't send, you know, nudes as a rule, but I have taken some artistic content that doesn't involve my genitals and...

I sort of went through and I found it and I was like, do you know what? I need to take more videos of me looking like a hot slut now while I look like a hot slut. Because later all I'm going to have is this like Snapchat video from 2000 and whatever. It's sort of like the Moira Rose thing.

Take a lot of naked pictures of yourself and make sure you publish them on the internet or one day your children are going to go looking for them and they won't be there. That sort of thing. There's nothing wrong with Moira Rose. Everything is right with that woman. That was so beautiful. Are you inspired? You'll never be as young as you are right now so take naked photos and videos and look back at them with glee. Write this down in your notes app. No. No.

No. I think it's beautiful. I don't think I can. And I think you're right that I'll regret it. How do you feel about your naked body? Is that too deep? I don't think about it much at all. Take your vagina to a restaurant of its choice. Yeah.

John, you have a hot bod. Oh, thanks for saying that, Parvati. Well, I can tell. I've been doing Pilates and taking experimental pancreas medicine. They're both kind of working. But there is something very hot to a physical boundary. Like in COVID, where you couldn't get on a plane and you couldn't go meet someone. It's like something ramps up the heat and the passion there. This is what the TV show Catfish discovered a long time ago.

Whatever happened to that show? Yeah, no, that's what I took away from it too, that it's beautiful and inspiring, what people do when they can't see each other.

What's the status of you and the Olympian? Are we going for the gold? Top podium. We've gone for the gold. But he has a partner now. And so we don't do the thing. But he has told her about me. And I've gone on a date with them, which was kind of fun. It was very modern and progressive. I was like, work. Oh, I love this.

I want to be like the Heidi Fleiss. I picture my apartment in Sydney. I want to host exploratory heterosexual couples who are looking to dip their toe into the world of polyamory and bisexuality. This is a very important topic. Yeah, and deep. Very deep. This isn't small talk. These are not icebreakers, people. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.

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And I will also, I'll add to that my own thing about regret because I think this is the probably first point in my life because I'm releasing a book. I've written a memoir, which hopefully I don't regret because it's so deeply personal and raw and vulnerable and exposing and

And a lot in my life has changed since I completed that book. And so now I'm like, I want to live my life with no regrets because I was in a marriage that didn't work for such a long time. And the reason I got out of that marriage was because I sat with myself and I was like, if I did this for the rest of my life and then I died, would I regret my life not having actually...

left this thing and created a life that I loved. And I was like, yeah, I can't. So that's when I really encountered the regret. And now at this point, I'm like, let's explore. Like, I'm divorced. Let's explore. So you want to come to my apartment in Sydney? Is that what you're saying? I'm going to be wearing fuzzy leg warmers and a thong. Romance love. Crystal thong. Shallow question. What?

What Austin Powers movie is your favorite? There's Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery, Austin Powers, The Spy Who Shagged Me, and Austin Powers in Goldmember. That's the one with the little mini evil. I think that's The Spy Who Shagged Me. And then maybe all of them. Mine's the one with Beyonce. That's Goldmember. Also Heather Graham. Heather Graham. On roller skates? Or is that Boogie Nights? That's Boogie Nights. Sorry.

Yeah, my favorite Austin Powers movie is Boogie Nights. She'll forever be wearing roller skates in my mind. Yeah. Deep question. I'm glad you got to be here for such a weird episode. This is not what your episodes are normally like. Nah, it kind of is. Kind of. Do you believe in true love? Yes. Yes. Well, I mean, isn't that like what life is about?

Well, that's one perspective. Well, there's cheering, so I think... Yes, I'm correct. I think that we are here as humans, too. I think true love is... I'm a yogi, so it really is uniting with the oneness and source of cosmic creation that sparked life in the beginning, Big Bang, and keeps sparking life, and that's what true love is. And when you find that spark...

You should write this in your notes app. This is my gift to you. When you find that spark, it could be for pickleball. It could be for bisexual love fest at a party. It could be for diarrhea. Whatever the spark is, like, just throw yourself at it. Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. What an impression I make. Do you believe in true love? Sigh.

Mean I don't believe in one true love like I don't like this idea of one person or even like one person forever I Do believe in love?

What is the difference between love and true love? I guess that's up for me to decide. I would say that I believe I have been in love and I still love that person and he still loves me but that was like 10 years ago and we don't want to be together but I love, I guess this is what you're saying about it could be love of pickleball like I love my parents, I love my friends and those are all true love but I think the question means do you believe in one person for you forever? No. Okay.

Is that what you're interpreting for the question? Isn't that interesting? What a thing to project onto the question. But yeah, probably. Yeah. I feel like what I have come to realize as I've gotten older is we're trained by the culture around love.

to view it as an unstable equilibrium where like love is a marble balancing on an upside down bowl and you're trying to keep it at the top of the bowl. Oh, survivor challenge. 50-50. I'm batting 500 on my survivor challenges.

Marble on bowl. Marble on bowl. So the marble's on top and you're like desperately trying to keep it from sliding over. But then what I've come to realize is that, oh, that's what a romantic comedy tells you and that's what like dramatic movies or kind of, that's what culture and entertainment will tell you. But actually like the great loves of your life, it's more like a marble sitting in a bowl. And like,

If it's the right people, you can go the wrong way. You can say the wrong thing. You can have a fight, but the marble is going to stay in the bowl if it's the right people for you. Oh my God, that was the best wedding speech. That was so good. For your own wedding, you should use that. Yeah, I should try that. I feel so settled after that story. Shallow question. When's the wedding? Yeah, true love. He's found it. Have you found true love? I think so, yeah.

No, I... Definitive. I've not. I've actually... No, I have. It's very hard. But it's so interesting. We'll take that out in Photoshop. Don't worry. He'll never hear it. No, for sure. No, we'll do a little Photoshop. He'll hear it. No, I know that I have. It's funny that I'm creating ironic distance from a truth that I know. Right? Not saying just yes. Because I haven't thought about it. I was just asking the question to put it on to you. But now you're asking it back to me. And...

So I will tell you when I, this is why I'm sort of shut up. So when I met my fiance, they presented as a woman. I present as this. I'd only dated boys, cisgender men, and they had really only had relationships with women.

And we were friends. And then they transitioned. But we had a connection before they transitioned. We were friends. We were buddies. And we worked together. And we were friends, but there was no anything beyond that. How could there be? We just weren't in the right category of people. But then something very strange happens, which is as we become closer friends, they transitioned. Now, when you build... Sometimes...

a romantic attraction can come from intimacy. Sometimes an intimacy can come from a romantic attraction, right? Like sometimes like you can hook up with somebody and you have no feelings, but over time, a real relationship develops. Sometimes over time, like a sexual attraction or true attraction can develop between two people out of that intimacy. But usually you stay looking about the same through that process. But it is deeply strange to be very close with someone as friends as they slowly evolve into the kind of person

that is suddenly inside of the bounds of the kind of person you would be attracted to. And over time, that happened. And for a time, it didn't seem like we were going to be together. And I made my peace with that because I knew that if it could happen, it would happen. And so then we went for a walk and I said, a long time ago, we decided not to pursue this because...

You date women and I date men. If there's a chance that's wrong, I think we should take a chance on it. And then we did. And that was it. I got it.

Are you crying? We're all crying. And isn't that also, you talked about them, their form sort of changing, but I guess there could also be something said for them coming into their own physically, which then also changes how attraction works, not just from your side, but in their confidence, in their own body, in their own person. And it feels like a beautiful...

not a metaphor, what's the right word, like a beautiful advertisement for identity and gender and people being who they truly are. Yeah, authenticity is the hottest. Yeah. Aw, see, look at that. That was very beautiful. Thank you for sharing.

What kind of snack do you like to get at the movies? Wait, this is actually great because back there in the green room is every snack you could ever want at the movies. And I'm into the Sour Patch Kids and the popcorn. Well, I devoured that popcorn. Yeah, you went for the popcorn. I really did. And I was getting a good story too, so I was like... Are you afraid of dying? No.

Oh my God, what a good question. My daughter asks me this a lot. Well, she's like, are you going to die? How old is she? She's very morbid. She's six years old. And she's afraid everyone turns into a skeleton when the moon comes out or something. Is that not true? You and I talked about this. When you get your torch snuffed on Survivor, it feels a bit like a death.

It's like a very ceremonial kind of ritual where it's like when your fire represents your life and when your fire goes out, that's it. You're like lights out. You're dead. And it does kind of feel like that. And then you walk down the path and you're greeted by the producers and whoever. And it's like, okay, well, from everything I've read, I get very into like lives between lives and soul family and all this kind of stuff. I'm really, I geek out about this kind of thing.

So from what I know, there is a soul family out there waiting for us. It's just a veil. This is like an illusion. We can only see what's here physically because we have these special eyes. Like a cat sees something completely different. A grasshopper sees something completely different. If we're dead... Because everything's so big. Yeah, they're like in a little... They're like a little tiny grasshopper. And we're in human bodies. But when we lose these bodies...

Now we can see everything. So the thing that freaks me out about dying isn't necessarily like dying. It's like, what? I'm so attached to my body. I feel like where will be home? Where's home when you die? Because home is in my body. So if I don't have my body anymore, where am I going to go? A lot to think about. I'm not afraid of dying.

I am a godless atheist who doesn't believe in anything. And I think that sort of... I guess along the lines of what you were just saying... ...if I were to interpret that through I guess my belief system and lens... ...I would say that I can believe that when I die...

the consciousness me stops being individual and like in almost like a physics kind of way the energy that I was joins back into the collective. I don't believe that that is a well I don't believe that I'll have a conscious awareness of that. I think it's more like I think my thinking mind is

Kind of like this feeble narcissistic thing that thinks... The ego thinks it knows and understands what it is. But I think ultimately like when I die... My body will just be like a dead sack of flesh. And my consciousness will stop. And that like quite literally... My body will decompose and become a part of the earth again. And that's sort of like, you know, the circle of life. But what I do fear...

the part that leads up to you dying, the pain. Like I saw this play called Cleansed. Does anybody here see? Yeah, it's, I can't think of the playwright's name, but there was all these warnings outside the theater saying like, just so you know. And I was like, it's a play, like whatever. Like it's not real. And like 15 minutes in, I was like, huh.

Oh God, I'll make it stop. And it was sort of, it's about torture. And it was one of those plays where I was like, that was horrible. I wish that never happened to me. But then I kept thinking about it. And I was like, wow, I was sitting in a play. A piece of art made me consider how I want to die. The fear of torture, the fear of pain and like thinking like I need a piece of jewelry that will allow me to kill myself.

If I ever get into that situation where you can't kill you... I've always thought, what's the worst thing that can happen? You can just kill yourself. If it all goes... Not in a suicidal way, but if the sea levels rise and if, I don't know, an authoritarian dictator comes to power and tries to round you up, you can find a way to kill yourself. But I was like, what if you're being tortured and you can't physically kill yourself because you've been restrained? I was like, I need like a...

cyanide earring that I can do it with. Cyanide earring? Have I gone too deep? What if you accidentally hit that at night when you're... Well, that's because it's got to be like, it's got to be like, you know those like security passes where you're like, zzz, swipe? It needs to be like that so you can like, zzz,

that can't happen voice activated voice activated cyanide what if they cut out your tongue that's what happened in this play I never want to hear I don't want to see this that sounds like a fucking awful play it is but like here I am talking about it you know not Sweeney Todd have you heard about Wicked I mean that was good you just cry and applaud and you remember the songs after that's a nice part about that okay well one last question

Wait, wait, wait. Before we move on. Are you an agrony person or a martini person? Listen to R&R wherever you get your... I can't tell if I ruined this podcast episode or not. No, this is great. This is great. It's awesome. This is exactly what we wanted out of the segment we called... Love it or leave it. Deep in the gala. Also, I was so grateful on Traders that I didn't have to get buried alive.

They buried people alive. That's a crazy thing to do. That was a crazy moment on that show because you're sort of like, I will say like,

I trust the production of Survivor. No, no. Like for Survivor, like they've been making Survivor for a very long time. Survivor, yes. They know what they're doing. They are like fucking pros. They've been at it a long time. But that traitor show, like I'm sorry. It's like I love traitors, but it's like at the end of this challenge, you get an extra 15 grand. Like they're making it up as they go. There's like, oh, there's scorpions, there's snakes, there's rats. They're like, just be nice to the animals. Let's get a couple housewives in that grave and bury them. What? What?

That's a crazy thing to do. Would you be buried alive? No, I want to be dead when they do it, for sure. I've thought about that. For money, on television. Yeah. Okay, we'll be right back. But they shovel the dirt. They shovel the dirt. You can see the dirt cracking through the crack in the coffin. So you're standing while they're doing it. I wasn't there. That was season one. Oh, they didn't do it again. That tells you something. Someone died. Who is the survivor that got buried?

Stephanie LaGrossa got buried. Yeah. A lot of people got buried. A lot of people got buried. Poverty, Courtney, stay right there. We'll be right back to ask some more deep questions and some shallow ones. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.

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Odoo. Exactly what every business needs. Sign up at Odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. And we're back. Carpenter, you have a book. What's it called? Nice Girls Don't Win. How I Burned It All Down to Claim My Power. What a brilliant title. Very aggressive. It's so good. Now, it's interesting because I feel like when you were first on Survivor, like you were... Basically...

most women were just villains, just sort of culturally. She seems to be nice. I don't trust it. Villain. She was wearing a ponytail up top. Villain. Guys, I think that's called misogyny. Two braids? Two braids. Villain. Villain. But you like, we were talking about the book a bit yesterday. You just tell people about it.

I've written a memoir. It starts at my childhood. I grew up in a commune, a Hindu spiritual commune run by a very charismatic, very controlling guru. She named me. We lived there for a bit. My sister, who is also in the audience out here, Sadashi, was also born there. And we grew up there. We moved to Atlanta. It goes through my whole life story. Moving to L.A., getting cast on Survivor.

playing Survivor multiple times. It just details everything. And I wrote it as an offering, right?

For myself, first of all, to really help me to understand myself because once I got divorced, I was like, how did I get here? I feel like I'm a pretty smart person, but I ended up in a situation that wasn't healthy for me. And the book was an exploration of that. And as I was writing it, I am a service-minded person. I'm a life coach. I like helping people. I want people to take...

away from my story, something that helps you in your life. But yeah, it really goes through. I deep, deep, deep excavated my soul for this book. So I really hope you'll buy it, read it, and enjoy it. And don't tell me if you don't like it. I won't tell you. But what I like about it too is it's like, I feel like you've sort of embraced the lessons of what it takes to be a villain. Yes. Yeah.

And bringing that into what you learned over time from having kind of... In Survivor, about what it means to kind of... Basically, being a villain is another way of kind of like in these shows, kind of just taking up space. Being a villain is not only taking up... It is taking up space and it is also...

playing to win and using every tool in your toolbox to do it. And if you're like me, a woman who is a flirty girl who has that kind of power, I'm going to use it. It's the thing I think for many women, it is the thing that we have over men. The only thing in a lot of circumstances that we have over men. And I'm like, use it. Like, don't be slut shamed. Don't be embarrassed. Don't be

or shut down, like use every ounce of power that you have. Use your voice. Stand up for yourself. Put yourself first because I was like conditioned to be a people pleaser. I was born into a commune where everyone attended to the needs of this community

controlling guru. So that was in my DNA and my blueprint as a child. And I think a lot of people were born into that kind of family dynamic with their parents. Very controlling, dictator-y kind of parents out there in the world. And that creates people who tend to put themselves last. And on these reality shows, what we're seeing is a very upsetting trend of people wanting to play an honest game. And it's so annoying. Thank you. Thank you.

I feel like we're on Oprah now. When did this switch? That's been fun. I liked it. I learned a lot. We had an interesting conversation. Learned about a play to avoid. It's a lot. It's a good play. It made me question my life. And that is powerful art. I am so glad it did that for you. Sarah Kane cleansed.

And speaking of cleanses, we're going to take turns spinning the wheel and defend whichever ne'er-do-well it lands on. Okay? Oh, what a... Oh, my God. Look at that cute little photo of you, John. You host Wheel of Fortune there. What is that? Interesting. We're on Wheel of Fortune. All right. We're going to spin the wheel. Whatever villain it lands on, we have to defend for a minute. Parvati, you're up first. Oh, my God. Me first. Okay. Ursula. Oh. Ah!

Oh, we got Ursula. Oh my God, actually, she's my favorite villain of all time, I think. She was a drag queen. Yeah. She was based on Divine. Yes. She's a sexy mama, va-va-voom. Okay, I don't know if you guys are into this, but I know there is a whole genre of porn that's like octopus porn.

Wait, with real octopi? It's like Ursula Tentacle porn. I think it's animated. Oh, okay, thank you. I saw My Octopus Teacher. You know he was diddling that octopus, though. You know what the problem is with that movie, My Octopus Teacher? It's too much teacher, not enough octopus.

Every time I'm above the waterline, I'm like, what am I doing here? Get underwater. This is a movie about an octopus, not a weird dude. Show me that pussy. Can I see a show of hands? That octopus-y. Can I see a show of hands who thought that the octopus teacher was having...

Some sort of inappropriate sexual relationship with the octopus. It's a real question. It's just you and me. No, one, two, three. Three of us. Okay, I'm in the minority. I've just had a life experience. It's okay. The octopus only lives for one year, so he has to get it while it's hot. Is that it? Yes.

That's the whole thing. Well, Ursula is one of my favorites. I play this character consistently with my daughter. She likes to be Ariel. And I'm Ursula and I do a mean Ursula. And I really get into it and like wiggle my arms and stuff. So I relate.

So obviously she can't be bad. Yeah. One of the great villains. It's also like, I'm sorry, but let's remove King Trident or whatever his name is and have a democracy, you know? Right. Let's off with his head. Another controlling dictator father. Yeah. Oh, he becomes a benevolent authoritarian. That's the lesson. There's too many Disney movies where the lesson is the king learned their lesson. It's like, who cares? The Queen of Hearts, I also could defend.

Don't be painting my white roses with red paint. Plant red roses in the first place. Yeah. Do it right, idiots. Idiots. Idiots. Idiots. Let's spin it again, but next up, it's Courtney. Am I saying that okay? Oh, gosh. Michelle Visage. Michelle Visage. She's not a villain.

Oh, she's a villain. She looks like Cruella de Vil. She looks like a villain there. Okay, I'm defending Michelle Visage. So Michelle Visage provides a really important service on RuPaul's Drag Race and probably in many other places, like to her family. Okay.

But on Drag Race, you need an antagonist who says the things. And also like RuPaul is the elite figurehead, you know, the needs to have a certain amount of decorum. But Michelle, she can go in and do the dirty work. And they're friends. And I think they share the same brain a lot of the time. And so she says the things that RuPaul also thinks. And she does say things that...

you know, help raise drag queens to a high level. If you go back and you watch like the early seasons, the tone of the things that Michelle and the judges, but particularly Michelle say has changed a lot. Like the things that you comment on then you wouldn't comment on now. Sort of like going back and reading someone's old tweets.

Delete it. Just delete your account. You cannot delete seasons one through ten of RuPaul's Drag Race. They're more conscientious. Not politically correct, but sensitive or empathetic. And empathetic to people's needs. Look, I think that

I think like as a product of the times, she always like pushed the envelope of like what you could or should say. And I think that like she's a formidable force in drag race lore. And I think she's really like, she's, yeah, she's an icon for a reason. Yeah. I like that. I think she would enjoy that. Yeah, I like that. That was nice. All right, let's spin it again. It's my turn. Oh!

It has landed on Mark Zuckerberg. He's a ghost. Ghosts are real. Travis, did you just shout, you look like him? Was that you? Can I borrow your glasses for a moment? Oh, hi, Michael. Can I just borrow your glasses? Oh, no. There you go. Pop those on. Yeah, you know that. Boom. We needed the prop. So you don't need glasses. These are a look.

You just, you literally, wow. And I, you, you, these are not real. You have, I'm sorry. Wait. Don't expose this person. There's no prescription in these glasses. Are they a prescription? For what? For what? A slight astigmatism. From a doctor? You have a slight astigmatism? Is that true, strictly? Hmm. Wait, John, are you seeing more clearly? Have you just learned that you need glasses? Do I have a tiny astigmatism? Maybe. Maybe.

Let's get some numbers in the back. Just raise your hands in the back, fingers, and you can point out. What do the letters on that sign say? I could see that. I do have trouble reading the teleprompter a lot of the time. That's an iconic sign, the exit. What if I have a tiny little astigmatism? Better late than never. Yeah, they have treatment for that. So I think the decision that this is similar is anti-Semitism, first of all. But look. Do the pose. Do the pose. Look, the...

Yeah. Somebody get a thumbnail. That stinks. We have the same stylist, which same, same stylist, which is the person that, that styled Harvard Westlake kids for their bar mitzvah in 2006. Yeah.

So yeah, Mark Zuckerberg gets a bad rap, but because of everything that's gone on, like the ethnic violence and slow degradation of our social bonds and the fact that he built a system that kind of destroys human connection, creates vast amounts of loneliness, and then announces he's creating AI so that people can have friends again. Yeah.

And then every once in a while he gives a speech about how much they're trying to help the world and always part of that speech is explaining how they got it so wrong for the previous time. You know, it's always like, what we learned the last time was, no, bad. We're not going to do that again. We have a whole new thing we're going to try. Oh no, we did it again. But I love what he's doing in Hawaii.

Let's spin it again. Wait, so he's basically King Trident is what you're saying. Yeah, it's a lot of, yeah, I don't, the, oh, should I give these glasses back? I'll do it. I got it. I got it. You're right. I should give these back. Thank you. Thank you. I believe you. It's a real prescription. You look great in the glasses. You look great. I do, I do, like, it's a, I, like, I see why you've chosen it as part of your look. She's like, I'm never cleaning these glasses again.

That's like a nightmare for you, in a sense. Like, oh my God, everyone's going to find out these aren't real glasses. What are the odds? Like, oh, we'll sit in the front. What could happen? It's like being naked in your dream at school. When you saw Courtney going for the glasses, did you know that I was going to discover that there's no prescription in them? It's a real prescription. That's true love. Oh my God, what a good guy. That's love. That's love. True love. However, if it was true love, he could have thrown himself under the bus and offered up your glasses. His own. They're definitely a real thing.

They're definitely real. They're more real. His look real. I trust you. They're even more real. Well, we can tell yours are real. Okay. Let's... What's happening? Let's spin the wheel. Let's spin the wheel. Spin the wheel. Is it my turn? Yeah. Let's see where it lands. It's Poverty's turn. It's landed on Tyson. Okay. Well, people...

People get it wrong about Tyson. Tyson Apostle, if you don't know him from Survivor fame, he and I were at odds on heroes versus villains. I wanted to play with him because Tyson has a very sharp wit. He's,

pretty brutally honest. He's honest in like the most meanest, darkest, cruelest way. And it's so funny. He really makes being mean and being a villain hilarious. And I, I for one, want this, I want his like

to grow. I want there to be more Tysons. Like, there's a lot of Parvati's going out and playing Survivor. They're like, I'm going to play like Parvati. I want people going out and playing like Tyson because he elevates villainry to, like, an art form with the honesty and with the humor. And right now, he's currently filming House of Villains. So, he's really settling into his name. He also kind of evolved. Like, he was much meaner

And less empathetic earlier. And he kind of grew up when he came back. Well, he's a dad. Yeah. I think him having kids changed him completely. Made him soft. Yeah. Like when Steven Spielberg took the guns out of E.T. Let's spin it again. Only lightsabers. E.T. has lightsabers, right? Yeah, no, for sure.

Courtney, defend. That's Mr. Freeze. From Batman Forever? One of the Batman. No, Batman versus Robin. Is that Arnold Schwarzenegger? Batman versus Robin, right? Batman versus Robin. With Chris, what's his face? Yes. The hot Robin. Yeah, and she's trying to kill you, dick. That's Harley.

Remember that? I do. He was hot. Wait, is that the one with Vicki Vale, Kim Basinger? That's just Batman 1989. I loved her. Whenever I get carded at a bar, I say, I saw 1989's Batman in the theater. And they're like, go on, sir. Even without your glasses, we'll let you in.

I have to defend. Yeah. I can't remember what he did or why he wanted to do it. His wife was frozen, right? He had a frozen wife. He was doing it all for love. For true love. She was a frozen wife.

So he had a frozen heart? His heart was frozen? Why did he get so cold? Oh, they don't like it. They don't like it. They're revolting. Where's the rubber bullets? I want you to know something. Nothing makes me want to sink into this more than you trying to fucking move this show along. Let's talk more about Arnold Schwarzenegger's performance as Mr. Freeze.

Let's talk about that. Did he have an iconic line? Yes, he says something like, you're so cold. You're so cold. You're frozen. I met Patrick Schwarzenegger. I'm going to put you on ice. I'm going to put you on ice. Yeah, that's pretty good. Patrick Schwarzenegger. Is he a villain? Not Patrick. White Lotus. I met Patrick. I think he's going to be typecast like a villain if he's not careful. Yeah, I think, well, that's his dad, Mr. Freeze. Mr. Freeze. Let's spin it one more time. Governor Kelp.

It is landed on Deidre Miro, who we all know from Andor. What? Who are these people? Go, John. You defend her. Yeah, please. I want to defend this character because it is inconceivable to imagine this woman kind of like laughing and like having a good time because the character is so unhappy.

I like that. I bet if she comes to your sex party, she'll get a little... Still thinking about that. It's lodged itself in my octopus brain. Guys, stop. I was going to say... This audience is so horny. It's not me. They're so... They're so horny. They're such freaks. Who is horny? Show of hands. I knew it!

More people are horny than thought that the octopus teacher was having sex with the octopus, so. I've got my finger on the pulse. You're a better judge of character than I am. Anyway, I really like the Andor. You guys see Andor? So good. You know what's cool about Andor? What is Andor? Andor. Courtney. Show of hands, who knows what Andor is?

Oh, wow, actually a lot of homies, so keep going. Here's the thing, there's two kinds of people in this world. There's people who have a kind of queer, polyamorous thing going with Olympians and people who got really into Andor. I'm into Andor. Andor, Andor.

I'm not on Grindr, I'm on Andor. So Andor's an app. No. A grumpy one. It's a riveting drama set in the Star Wars universe created by Tony Gilroy. What? This is the nerdiest thing I've ever heard. Well, stick around. I love Andor.

And what's great about Andor is there's now, this is what I want to tell people. It's important that people know this, that now there's a new trilogy. If you think about it, you can go Andor, Rogue One, A New Hope. That's it. It's a whole new trilogy for you. But it's like I'm watching Andor. No, no, no. It's one word, Andor. It's both a place and a name of a person. Spell it. No. A-N-D-O-R.

Oh, it is and or. But do they mean and? No, it's unrelated. It's unrelated. I'm watching this and or. And or. That. They, them, this, that. And or. And or. Shut up. Get up here. I cry basically at every episode, which actually doesn't make sense. That's sweet. That's sweet. We've seen your heart many times. Yeah, we have seen your heart tonight on stage. It's really beautiful. Thank you.

I'm going to go home and watch Andor. Can't wait. How do I watch it? We'll watch Andor. It's on Disney+. The plus is for the stuff they make. Specifically Andor. Other things. All right. Let's leave it there. Let's end this show. Everybody...

We'll head in sometime. We're having fun. Everybody, check out R&R. R&R. Very nice. Everybody, get Parvati's book. Get the book. Wait, you know I'm doing a drag show on my book launch day? And there might be a very special surprise happening. Do you want to come? When is it? July 8th in Brooklyn at $3 Bill. I love $3 Bill. Come. I'm going to be at a commune in Northern California on July 8th. Oh my gosh, it's like Parent Trap. Oh my gosh.

Freaky Friday. Two ships passing in the night. Let's do calendars later. Okay. That's our show. Thank you so much to Courtney Act, Harvard E. Shallow. We'll see you next week right here at Dynasty Typewriter. There are 507 days until the midterms. Have a great night and have a great weekend. Thank you.

If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, TikTok, and all the other ones for original content, community events, and more. You can also find Love It or Leave It on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube-exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review. Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad-free Love It or Leave It and Pod Save America episodes, subscriber-exclusive pods, and more.

Sign up at crooked.com slash friends. Love It or Leave It is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer. Bill McGrath is our producer. And Kennedy Hill is our associate producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Coffin, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre, and Will Miles are our writers. Jordan Cantor is our editor. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis provide audio support. Stephen Colon is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Shershark.

Thanks to our designer, Sammy Coderna-Rees, for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And thanks to our digital producers, David Tulls, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman, Dilan Villanueva, and Rachel Gajewski for filming and editing video each week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroat, and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. ♪

It's love it or leave it.

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