Isabelle Hof and Laura Hof on the Secrets of the Icewomen | EP 598
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Find your degree at snhu.edu/passion. That's snhu.edu/passion. Coming up next on Passion Struck. When my mother died, it was one of the most dramatic, impactful moments in our lives as a family and also my father, because it really made him want to go out into the world and just

do things, right? Act to almost soothe this hurt that he was feeling. It was a way for him to escape, but then it became a way of healing. But it was also the reason that he went into these extremes.

Like sitting in a bucket for two hours. Who does that? Well, a person maybe that is super driven. It made my father driven to the point that he went into these extremes, doing marathon bare feet, climbing a mountain, even the Mount Everest up until the death zone, 7,800 meters in shorts. This practice that my father used to heal himself

Later on, we also, we love to practice for different reasons. We see it as one of the best modalities to regulate yourself, to really come to a center point of yourself where you can go through life in a balanced way. It healed him.

But then he brought it out into the world. He has a purity of heart, of mind, of being. That is my father. That's a childlike purity. And he gave it to anybody who was willing to listen, anybody who needed it.

Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the passion

Hey, PassionStruck fam, welcome to episode

Whether you're new to the show or have been on this journey with us for a while, thank you. Passion Struck isn't just a podcast, it's a movement, one rooted in helping you live intentionally, unlock your full potential, and build a life of deep meaning. Now let me ask you, what if the cold wasn't your enemy, but your greatest teacher? What if true strength came from not pushing through, but from learning how to pause, breathe,

And listen, that's exactly what today's guests, Isabel and Laura Hoff are here to share. As daughters of the legendary Wim Hof, known globally as the Iceman, Isabel and Laura are not just continuing their father's legacy, they're rewriting it through a deeply female lens.

In their new book, Secrets of the Ice Women, they explore how breathwork, cold exposure, and mindset training can radically transform the way women approach hormonal balance, stress, beauty, immunity, and resilience. In this powerful conversation, we'll explore how women's bodies uniquely respond to the Wim Hof Method. Welcome.

We go into the real science behind cold exposure and inflammation. We discuss what it means to regulate your nervous system and become your own healer, and why strength doesn't have to look loud to be life-changing. I have a very candid discussion with Isabel and Laura on their upbringing, the lessons learned from their father, and how they've applied these teachings in their own lives, especially in the context of raising children and navigating personal hardships.

This message is so much more than cold therapy. It's about reclaiming our inner stillness in a world that won't stop moving. And before we dive in, a quick highlight from last week. On Tuesday, I spoke with Humble the Poet about his new book, Unanxious, and how overachievers can break free from the stress spiral to reclaim calm. On Thursday, I interviewed Dr. Emily Falk on the neuroscience of value, identity, and why some ideas stick, while

while others fall flat. And on Friday, Dr. Gordon Flett joined me to discuss the hidden epidemic of not feeling like we matter and how we can start to change that narrative from the inside out. If any of those episodes resonated with you, or if you're new and wondering where to start, check out our curated episode starter packs on Spotify or at passionstruck.com slash starter packs. And I have big news coming later this week. So keep an eye on your inbox in the podcast feed and

for an exciting passion struck announcement and if you're based in tampa i'll be doing a live in-person interview with the one and only gretchen rubin this thursday april 17th at the beautiful oxford exchange to celebrate her newest book the secrets of adulthood

There are still a few tickets left, so if you want to be part of this special evening, now's your chance. Details at OxfordExchange.com or our show notes. Now let's get into today's episode with the inspiring Isabel and Laura Hoff. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin.

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I am so excited today to have Isabelle and Laura Hoff on the Passion Start podcast. Welcome to both of you. Thank you. Thank you, John. And so happy to be here. I feel really fortunate this week. I have had someone call into the show from Singapore, and now you're calling in from Netherlands.

And I feel like I needed a couple more continents this week to come in. Well, which one are you missing? I think Africa. Maybe you can do Africa. That would be an interesting one. Yeah, I had North America. So I'm missing South America and I'm missing Africa. And Oceania, I think. And Oceania, yes. Oceania, yeah.

We are happy to present Amsterdam now. Europe. If we have time for it, I'll tell you my first story about the first time I went to Amsterdam. But I want to open up with a question that I love to use. We all end up having defining moments that shape us into the people we become. What was a defining moment for you?

Yeah, that's a good question. That's a beautiful question as well. There are many divining moments for me personally, but one of the last ones is actually becoming a mother.

And you can think about these things about the head, you get a baby, you get a child, how is it going to change it, you can think about it, you can maybe fantasize it or think or have it in your mind. But you can think about how what an impact it has on your life.

And for me is that before I had a very structured life, like next to the structured, I as well, some freedoms have freedom moments in that structure, but it was more disciplined. Okay. This morning I'm going to wake up early. I am going to read and doing math, doing some sports. And then, yeah, I had it all together in a sense. And then you get a child. So a child just changes everything because it's a bulk of energy that it's

is not regulated. So you are the one who needs to regulate it. So next to yourself, you need to regulate a child.

and regulated in the sense of he doesn't hurt himself. Like you guide it. You're the big guider. And so one of the things is that you are working with a certain energy, that is your child who has needs, who wants things, who needs to do as well. Yeah. Who needs to go somewhere. So a lot of energy is redirected to the child. But at the same time, of course, you're a person.

So both still need to find the balance between your giving that energy, the attention that it needs and the love it needs to the child, but as well to yourself. So the first things when a child enters your life, it's overwhelming. It's like everything goes to the child. So you need to find really a new balance between how are you living your life as a mother, but as well as an individual, as a person.

And then as well, how to be the best version of yourself for the child. So you really need to re-

Calibrate. Yeah, recalibrate. I like that word. Everything in your life. Also yourself probably. She explained it to me as being in love with her son. Being in love. Being more in love with her son than her partner. Yeah, that's the kind of love that will definitely change your life in all aspects. Yeah, a different kind of love. But yeah, it's just the impact is huge. It's just huge.

And so it's there, but you have to, yeah, I like the word recalibrate. It's a very defining moment, changes everything. That puts everything in a different order. And then you have to redefine yourself. Wow. I love that. Beautiful.

It is beautiful. And I will tell you, being a father of a 21-year-old daughter and a 26-year-old son, that you'll find over the course of their lives that you're going to have to continue redefining yourself and reinventing yourself. And they reinvent themselves too. It doesn't stop when they're 18. Oh my gosh, no. No, no.

Yeah, it continues on. It's a never ending process, I can imagine. The growth just changes, right? I'm still growing. Yeah, they're still growing. And you're still the guidance, of course, the guidance.

I love hearing how you guys describe your dad as someone who was a child as you were growing up. I think I heard you describe him as the fifth child in the family. Yeah, absolutely. This is always how I describe him because he was the one that was always ready to play, ready to invent a new game, doing that with us as children. And he played outside more than we did. So we knew

Always went outside playing. He was the kid even in the neighborhood. So everybody absolutely loved him because he used to put ropes around trees in the backyard and everybody could swing like monkeys there. So he just created sort of an atmosphere, a vibe where people just came in and out of the house.

uninvited, the door was wide open, there was no lock in the door. So this is, I would almost say, a little bit of a hippie vibe that my father definitely brings with himself. I think that he will do when there is a group of people, he will take the guitar and we're going to have a little party together. So he's very much into the play, into the imagination, into, yeah,

being a child is really playing, being free, not being tight, not being orderly. And that my father exemplifies like no other. And of course you could think, hey, but shouldn't a parent be very strict and full of rules and you need to make up the bed? Of course, it's also part of that. And I think we had less rules growing up than any other child. We really did. We really did. I don't think we really had any rules growing up. No, I don't.

We really didn't think about one. And I think it goes both ways. Sometimes order is very important for a child, but it's also beautiful the way that I see it. It has been a gift in that it has really given me, if I think from a personal level, the deconditioning of the mind. And that means that I really had to find out where are my own boundaries and

And what is really important for me in my life. And I am very comfortable with saying what I think. I'm very comfortable with just going and following my feeling in life. That passion struck. I'm very much like that.

My father, when I feel it, I just go and I don't think about it. I don't rationalize too much about it. And that's really the gift that my father gave us and gave me. And I really absolutely love it because it's,

In my life, during these very important moments when you are choosing a different study, when you are choosing if you want to go travel or when you're choosing a partner, anything, are you really choosing from a very deep seated feeling of who you are, a core of being that is just unaffected by the whole world? That's the way that I choose. And that means that I make very different decisions most of the time.

than other people would make and I understand that and I accept that and in the beginning I always thought that I was a normal child that had a normal childhood but actually later on I found out okay the way that I am yeah there there are some differences and I can point it back to the childhood that we had which my father really full of passion and it's

Full on passion. Whenever he gets into an idea, he goes 100%. There's no doubting. There's no thinking about it. He just goes. And that's almost like that childlike passion that you have. Can you really do that in life? A lot of times that with people, everybody is unique and everybody has passions to explore, to develop. But when we get into society, the schooling system, maybe even your parents, your friends,

You get these sort of rules placed on you and that makes sure that maybe you are not following your passion, but because everybody says that this is the type of job you should have to become happy or successful or et cetera, et cetera. But, and so you actually abandon your true calling your true gift that you have, that everybody has everybody. That's really what I believe. Everybody holds a unique gift.

And if we can really connect with that, it would make the world so much better because you act in the world and you go out into the world based on passion, on love, based on love. And that's on some kind of gain that there is. And at the end, I believe that when you follow what you want in life, your love, you follow it with love from the heart, you will be successful. And success...

We have to redefine what success is. It's being able to do what you want to do in the way that you want to do it. And really, every day, you're doing it with love. That's the way that we should live.

Yeah, I'm a talker. I can go on forever. I think that was a beautiful answer. And Isabel, I think she's putting you up to the challenge of are you going to be a helicopter parent or are you going to be more of a hands-off parent? I'm definitely a Spartan, probably a Spartan mom.

We both had the same beautiful dads that gave us great gifts, as what Laura said as well. I had a deep conditioning. It's like, there are no rules, but we also were very responsible. So in that sense, I think he sensed that already these are responsible children, so I can give them more freedom than others might allow them.

So in that sense, he did really sensed us as children. And there I saw as well, like a lot of freedom is good.

But at the same time, I also do think that a little bit of a framework for the child sometimes can be as well good. What are the boundaries? And I found them for myself with no problemo. But at the same time, I think that, yes, certain boundaries are as well good. And within that boundaries, you can play, you can have your freedom and to internalize it for a child.

you have to see as well where are they and how much boundaries do they need and how much freedom can you give and to have that interplay but as well like I'm as a mother as well I do like structure but as well like I give our child a lot of freedom I'm the auntie that is he can do whatever he wants

That's the type of auntie I am. She's amazing auntie. Every time when I come here, I'm very present. She lives above me. She's got an apartment above me. It's a mess here. So that's perfect for the child too. I have to tell you this story. When I was growing up, I had a crazy uncle Jerry who didn't have kids, but he was that uncle who would just let you do anything. Like when I was

Two years old, he took me to my first concert, which was seeing Led Zeppelin. Never told my parents. My aunt, who I love dearly, was more of the intense boundaries of, I got to be careful with what I'm going to do with them or his parents are going to kill me type of thing. And Jerry just didn't care. He's like, we're going to go out and have fun. Yeah.

He's like my partner. My partner is all of, I live and the child needs to follow me. I love Uncle Jerry. I think both are important, of course. But what I do think that a lot of time we give children a little bit too many rules. And we know about this creative genius of four-year-olds. They measured four-year-olds. Most of them, they're creative geniuses.

And what is that? Of course, the brain is developing, but it's also this playfulness and this imagination that we can still have that if we don't stifle it too much. And I really believe that we can do it through play, through openness, through...

See whichever choice you make some mistakes here and there. That's actually very important. And that's what I also find it very important to let the child as well make the choices, make sometimes a mistake. But of course, you're the one advising them as in the long run. This can happen that these are the consequences at a certain age, depending on, of course, the age where they are in. But let them make the mistakes as well.

So I do think that, yeah, give them just a sense of control, the sense of agency as well in that sense. And then sometimes it ends up a little bit different than they want it. But if it's manageable, if they can become then more resilient, for example, I think it's a very good thing to do. You know, the Spartans, I like this story. That's too much, the Spartans. But I like it. I like it. But they threw their...

children out into the forest at age seven. That's when their brains, their unconscious part of the brain have been fully developed. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. At that moment, they threw them out into the forest and then they had to survive for a whole year alone. And only when they survived that year, they could come back to the clan. Now that's building resilience.

And we know the Spartans are the primal war city so they wanted to have fighters. They had fighters for sure. I'm also wondering how many of those didn't end up as a fighter. What do you mean? As lovers? No, end up in the forest being not alive. Part of the wolves. Exactly.

That is definitely an early test of your courage for sure. It's very early, but I like that concept of building a little bit more resilience building towards our kids because nowadays really kids have been, they're raised in too much comfort and that also means that later on in life they cannot deal with the stresses of life. So it is very important to have that fine balance and I

Of course, don't throw them out into the forest for a year at age seven. But give them a little bit of agency. Give them a little bit of challenge in their life. Don't shield them from the challenges of life. They need to learn. And you can do that in a protective space as a parent. Yeah, that I agree totally. I'm not sure how it is in the U.S., but in the Netherlands...

We had an issue here with these generations of children that because the parents always wanted to do the best for the child and always were thinking ahead of, oh, this can damage the child in a short run. So they didn't became resilient anymore. So if there was something at the football field and something that happens that was a bit innocent, but hurt the feelings,

They couldn't handle with their feelings. So they were actually less resilient in their feelings. And it was actually an issue over here. So over there, they were saying, like, how can we make our children again, educate our children so they can handle better with obstacles in life?

And then so the parents, I think as well, parents need to redirect a little bit how they are teaching the children.

overcoming obstacles or facing dilemmas, facing problems, issues in life and not trying to want it or not wanting to solve everything for them. Because it's actually an opportunity to grow as well. It's also, of course, the way that children learn their sponges. So they will observe their caregiver. So if the caregiver is acting in a way that is stress resilient,

I bet that the kid also becomes more self-resilient. Oh, for sure. Yes. So that's important. Yeah. So we have the same issue over here in the United States. It's, I think it's something that is plaguing many cultures. And in fact, I have recently written a children's book. It hasn't been released yet. By the time it gets released, it's for four to eight year olds. It might be, it might come out by the time

Isabelle, your son becomes forward knowing how long these books to come out. But in the book, I actually threw a challenge in to the child's life just to show this whole concept of resilience and that we're all going to have suffering. We're all going to have struggles in life. And one of the reasons when I parented

I tried to be more of the parent who let the kids have freedom is because I think the earlier you make mistakes in life, the better, because who wants to start making mistakes for the first time when you're an adult?

then the gravity of your decisions becomes far greater. And the learning that you have to get could be so much more severe. So if kids are going to make choices to make bad decisions, I'd rather have them do it earlier, learn from those mistakes. So they build a foundation of making smarter choices that end up leading them over life to having a more resilient life and a more compassionate and kind one.

Absolutely. They're, of course, especially when they're children, what Laura already said, they are sponges. And all the experiences they are facing, they are experiencing, they are kept somewhere in the brain as well. And then if they are dealing it in the right way, or in the end, they find the solution, they...

Have that in their brain. So it's kept so for the next time it's easier to overcome that issue in their lives Yeah, and we know about epigenetics, right? So we already know that it really regards to stress signature. That's the signature that you have It's a blueprint it can change but we can literally give it to our children It's three generations long and that's what they have tested in studies. So

But I find it interesting. I think that stress signature, if it's not dealt with, if it's not changed its epigenetic signature, that's the way that I see it. You can change it through new experiences. Then you will give the way you deal with challenges in your life. If it becomes very stressful and overwhelming, the way that you respond, you give that to your children. Your children gives it.

to their children and the children, they gave it to their children. That's how far reaching this goes. And exactly like you said, we can build up a little bit more resilience by making these mistakes early on through experiences and to doing it in the comfort of the parent, which is also a master regulator of the mood of the child. You can suit them whenever they're making a mistake. You can explain them that there's always a next step.

time. That's the little cognitive part that also plays a role in understanding and placing that experiences in their brain in the correct manner. And so through these mistakes early on, we build up resilience and we build up a database by which they later on in life can

fall back on. They already went through these emotions maybe a couple of times. So whenever a stressful moment enters their life and whenever they're making a mistake, the emotion, the emotional trigger will just be less and that's, they become less stress sensitive. And so mistakes are absolutely beautiful and necessary in life to get to where you are.

We're not going in straight lines. That doesn't happen in life. I wish it worked, but that doesn't happen. No, we go in fluctuations and we have little downer times and up times. And to manage ourselves emotionally, regulating ourselves emotionally, it already happens when we are children. And that's the job of the parent. I'm not a parent, but it must be very difficult to find the balance, right, between...

some involvement but not too much involvement, some freedom but not too much freedom, order but not too much order. And so this is the beautiful exercise as a parent which is also one beautiful journey that you go through in life really.

really teaching your child this right because you are going through a transition you are going through many of these life lessons because you also have to question yourself and have these conversations yourself and yeah I must be beautiful I have no idea I'm not talking by experience but I can imagine she's got a lot of idea she drops in every day well I what I saw straw

Yeah, what I see and which is what I observe my little nephew, it's absolutely beautiful because I come in sometimes months later, right? They go on a vacation. I see my nephew again after a couple of months. I'm not having seen him. And what is that he goes through major shifts. But what I've also observed by just watching him, and it's a major life lesson for me, is that

Little children have these little days where they have total crises. They're crying, they are unsuitable and everything is wrong. And it's what is going on? And the way that I see it, every time when that happens, when I saw it with my nephew, right after these periods, they have a major cognitive shift or improvement. And so he becomes better after these moments or periods of chaos.

What does that mean? It's a rearranging of this neural circuitry that is going on with children very rapidly. And I see it with him every time and again in very short periods of time. But this happens all of our lives.

And we don't think like this. We think that it stops when we become adults or, you know, we are children until the last day when we die, because we also have this neural rearranging going on after these major, what we perceive as humans, crises. And so these are opportunities.

to really improve ourselves, to really make a shift and make that leap, improving ourselves, going to the next level. And that's why I say there is not a straight line in growing, improving. No, this goes in fluctuations.

I wanted to just hit on a couple of things here. So you talked about epigenetics and the epigenome. If you are a viewer or a listener of this and you want to learn more, I did four great interviews on this with Dr. Lucina.

Aaronica C. McDermott, Kara Fitzgerald, and Dr. Mark Hyman. And I also wanted to say something, Laura, about what you said earlier about using your innate skills to serve the world. And I had this guest on the show, Andreas Widmer, who's Swiss, and he ended up becoming a Swiss guard, really had no idea what he wanted to do with his life and

The tie-in here is he told me this story that he was one of the main guards for Pope John Paul II, and the Pope, sensing that he was a little bit lost in his life, started mentoring him. And he told him what you just told the audience, that the whole secret to life is really understanding what your gift is, honing that gift, and then finding a problem in the world that needs to be solved.

needs addressing and using that gift to serve others, to serve humanity. So I thought I would just tie those things in. And I wanted to make a bridge here because the whole reason you're on the show is to talk about your brand new book, Secrets of the Ice Woman. And I think a great tie-in here is we've talked a lot about your father. We've talked about now

You, Isabel, being a new mother and Laura, you being a new aunt, but this book wouldn't have been possible had it not been for your mom. And because of that loss, the role that your father ended up playing in your life. Could you just talk a little bit about that? Because you dedicate the book to your mom and obviously she was important to you, but your father wouldn't have taken on the role that he did had she not passed away.

Yes, absolutely. For those that don't know the history of our mother as well and father. So our mother died already 30 years ago because she committed suicide. She had schizophrenia and she had a lot of

mental issues there. So she couldn't really take the care of us. Our father was the constant person in our lives and our mother was there a few months with us and then she had to go back to Spain to our family to collaborate because yeah it's hard with mental issues and

educating or raising children. So our father was always there as the person being involved, but still loving our mother a lot. So we saw a lot of love in our childhood from him towards her and of course vice versa, but she had more issues. So 30 years ago, she committed suicide after she already had different attempts to commit actually suicide.

the voices in her head kept on being bigger, told her, yeah, do this, do that. And eventually she jumped from the balcony of where our grandmother lived

And it was really there that he had to deal with his grief, with his pain. And we were there as four little ducks with him. And so he had to take care of us. So he couldn't really mourn. He did mourn, of course, but he had to care of the children because that's your priority.

And our father already did the cold exposure, the breathing, the mind select, but this was his practice. We saw him every day doing it in the winter, always going into the cold. But it was actually when our mother committed suicide after that he dived way deeper into this practice. And what he also say is that my children helped me survive, but the cold healed me.

And now we understand as well more about this practice because we dived into it as well years later, but now we understand as well the impact it has on our mental being, our physical being, our mental being.

And because of that, we practiced it as well. When we were children, we did maybe here and there some things, but later on, we really as well practiced because we saw him, he was explaining the method further. And there's where we started to practice as well, this method.

and to really understand what the impact it has on our psyche, again, our physical being. And it's huge. And it's really, it has a very deep imprint. So from there, we started to practice. At a certain moment, we started to work as well with our father because I studied psychology. I really see this as one of the best practices to change your psychology yourself.

without going to a psychologist. Like a psychologist can be great, of course, but it's mentally. This is changing your physiology. And by changing your physiology, you're changing your brain as well, your mental condition. So everything, all the systems in our bodies, they are connected, interconnected. So the impact is huge. And yeah, I just saw like the huge impact and I thought I want to work more with that.

And from there we started really diving into the practice as well, starting to organize the ice woman community. But next to that as well, had doing our workshops with many women. And there we saw as well, a lot of different questions about, can I do it for my menstruation? I'm in my period. Can I do it? I, but as well, best practices of women with very menopause or many parts is like, wow, after doing the methods, my hot flashes goes down.

So there we thought, wow, this would be a great entry to write about it, do more research about it. And as well, like, how can it impact a woman? What are the best practices? How can it impact a woman positively? But as well, about which topics does a woman need to be a bit more considerate? So this is actually the birth as well of the book. Yeah, and I think really, if you think about pain and purpose,

This is really finding your purpose. Often it happens in those moments when you experience the greatest loss, experience the greatest pain. And I think really when my mother died, it was one of the most dramatic, I think impactful moments in our lives as a family and also my father, because it really made him

want to go out into the world and just do things, right? Act to almost soothe this hurt that he was feeling. So it was a way for him to in some way also a little bit escape, but then it became a way of healing. But it was also the reason that he went into these extremes.

like sitting in a bucket for two hours. Who does that? Well, a person maybe that is super driven. And it made my father driven to the point that he went into these extremes, doing marathon bare feet, climbing a mountain, even the Mount Everest up until the death zone, 7,800 meters. And of

People that have climbed the Mount Everest. But did you do it in shorts? And did you do it without any oxygen? I don't think so. And so these kind of crazy feats. You have to go crazy sometimes. When you are in that moment. To really pull yourself out of that. And so I don't think that we would have been here. Wouldn't have been without the loss of my mother. And now this practice that my father used. To heal himself.

Later on, we love to practice for different reasons. But we see it as one of the best modalities to really regulate yourself, to really come to a center point of yourself where you can go through life in a balanced way. And for him, it was a way that it healed him.

but then he brought it out into the world and he really believed that what he could do with it, which was influence his autonomic nervous system. He saw people healing from depression and he gave it already when he was doing these practices

Well, it was not a method yet. He did it his whole life. That was why people were so drawn to him. He has a purity of heart, of mind, of being. That is my thought. That's a childlike purity. And he gave it to anybody who was willing to listen

Anybody who needed it, you gave it to them. But it wasn't yet applicable in scientific studies. It wasn't studied yet. It was really because he was doing these crazy feats, science became interested in him. And that really started rolling the ball. That was really when everything lanced off. Because then you could see what an impact these simple exercises had. And now it has become a method that is wall

worldwide i love to travel i can't travel anywhere anymore without people not knowing the wim hof method i'm now trying to see if i can go there incognito like my second now my name is sylvana or something like this why because everybody knows it everybody at a certain moment i thought i'm not going to call it wim hof method because that's also a bridge to say like yeah that's my dad

I'm going to call it cold presses and breathing exercises. And even then, women are always saying, oh, we have. So it's impossible. But what it does show is that the impact that it has had, and it all came from a very pure point. It really came from a pure emotional impact, which my mother's death really was the catalyst for.

And that's why I really, and we really wanted to dedicate this book to my mother, who had a lot of mental health issue. And I am really convinced that if she would have done the method,

then that she would still be here and for my father as well that's also a good one to mention is because he because the mental issues she had and now he understood as well that this method is so good for the mental health for my father actually

For him, the most important group that he can reach is people with physical or mental issues. That is what he wants to change. Because the impact is direct. It's immediately, immediate. There's not a waiting of six weeks or months. It's immediate. And that's why it's so beautiful and effective. And the graver your condition, this is how I see it.

But the bigger the impact there is to see. And so even in one session of four hours, people come, they leave transformed from a workshop. And of course, four hours only. It's of course, it's an integration afterwards. You have to keep continuing because if you're depressed or if you're bipolar, it's not the cure in one session.

But it's definitely in one session you can feel the deep impacts on an emotional level and as well on a physical level, even spiritual level. Yeah. And it's chemistry. But you're also giving them hope that things can change. And it's a big changer. The chemistry changes. So your biochemistry changes.

A lot of times these conditions, and especially with mental health issues, it has a lot to do with the biochemistry not being right. And it's almost like a huge reset. And of course, it can take some time. If your condition has been going on for a long time, it won't be maybe a quick fix.

But the impact is immediate. I remember with, I love that one that you say it's increases the hope again, especially if you had a mental issue and it was going on for a long time and nothing helped. Then if you have something, if you found something that gives you a direct impact,

then you want to continue. And I just remember now as well, somebody coming to me with lung COVID. She has, well, a family of three children. She was a doctor, three children, but her nervous system was disbalanced. You saw it a lot with people who had COVID.

And she thought, she said, I'm coming home and I just want to go directly to my bed. I can't even play with my children anymore or be with them. And I feel guilty to my partner. And then she came and then she did the exercises and then she

She felt the tremendous impact it has on her body, on her mental being. And later on she said, "Wow, this was the entry point where I felt the hope again." And then she continued the practice. Yeah, the way that I always explain it, it's one of the best tools to gain more sovereignty. It's sovereignty, this is how I see it. Because I think Wim Hof Method, it's as strong as medicine. This is what I believe.

And it just gives you more sovereignty over your happiness, health and strength. And that's really what it is. And we have this self healing capabilities of ourselves. It's our inner body. It's already there. We just need a little bit of help to ignite those. And when they're ignited, it just goes on by itself. And this is really what it does. So mentally giving you more reins, more control over

over your own health, that is impact. And as I said, it's hope. Mentally, you're giving them some hope, but it's also physical. You feel it immediately. It's a tool. You're always carrying your backpack.

called life so you can if you're feeling down if you're not feeling well then you can always start doing the breathing exercises this is just like laying on the ground so you don't have to go anywhere you just can lay on the ground sitting on a couch and start doing the breathing exercises and it will transform your being immediately

It is a little, but it will transform. Yes. I was going to say, I have a great book for you. A friend of mine, Emma Sapella, who's a professor at Yale University, wrote a book called Sovereign last year, and it ties into exactly what you're saying. She's herself a Buddhist and does a lot of work on breath work.

and how all these modalities lead to happiness and feeling more significant in life. Well, I wanted to go a little bit into the Wim Hof Method for those who might be listening and don't know the keys of the modality. But I wanted to do this through an angle you bring up in the book. You talk about Dr. Marion Hopman at the beginning of the book, who's

a professor of physiology studying chronic disease and their underlying mechanisms. And she did this really interesting study

in 2010, where she gave 112 people E. coli bacteria, an injection of it to try to see the inflammatory response. And when your father was given it, he reacted quite differently from the rest of the participants. He didn't show fever or fatigue. In fact, even after a week of

he was showing strong, high concentrations of white blood cells, much higher than the other participants. And it really laid the foundation of studying his method that you write about in the book. And if you could break it down, do all components of the method need to be done together? Or is there value in also using them broken apart as well? Good question. Love the question.

Yeah, so we did a follow up. So it started with Wim and is one they saw this effect on the these are not the real E. coli bacteria, but these are parts of a dead bacteria, the E. coli bacteria, because I think that E. coli could even kill you.

But there's a part of that bacteria, E. coli, that they injected in these people. And normally, you see a fever, a lot of headaches, etc. And with Wim, you didn't saw it, but you saw it as well that he had a low inflammation in his blood.

And even after six days, when they withdraw the white blood cells or when they analyze the white blood cells, it still had an increase. So Wim was just one person. So they wanted to first see if others as well had the same effects after practicing the methods.

So they took 28 people and the half of them went to Poland, trained with my father, did four days. They went, they did the breathing exercises, cold exposure, and they climbed up a mountain in their shorts. Okay. Freezing their butts off.

And what they saw when they went to the hospital, that was 10 days later. So after four days, they came to Holland, they trained six days, six more days, and then they went to the hospital. So they injected them again with the bacteria.

And they saw the same results as my father. So that was the first thing that they saw that other people could as well influence their autonomic nervous system and their immune response. So it's a huge finding because it was actually the first time in history that they saw that your autonomic nervous system can be influenced. And normally they say you can't influence your autonomic nervous system. That's why it's called autonomic.

Okay, so that was a huge breakthrough. Later on, Dadao University, they wanted to as well see which component actually had that effect.

And so they broke it down. Mindset is a bit different to measure, although we find it very important. I think without the mindset, it's very important. So they left that out. So they did the breathing exercises and they did the cold exposure. So in the end, there were four groups, one only doing the breathing exercises, the other one, the cold exposure.

one group breathing and cold and it was a control. So what they saw is that the group with the breathing exercise, who did the breathing exercises, you saw again a lowering of the inflammation with the group of the cold exposure as well, but not so much as the breathing, but the best results were in the group of the breathing and the colds.

So yes, both components have an effect on the inflammation, but the breathing and the cold were the most potent ones. And then they didn't add on the mindset, but we know that, yeah, mindset, how you're approaching the cold, how you're approaching the breathing exercises, it has a very big effect.

So there is a synergetic effect between the components themselves and it seems that combined

they make each other stronger. So it is the reason also, I think that my father, naturally speaking, he's a prophet. He goes out into the nature, comes back with the answers. He already found out just by his practice, why these three components work so well. Right. And so we know about the power of the mind through placebo, nocebo,

How important the mind is. Just by visualization, you can increase your muscles. What is that? People can improve on their tennis just by watching tennis matches. That's actually what I did when I was younger and playing tennis because I knew it would improve my play.

As a kid, I was doing that. And so next to the practice, that is. You need to practice. And then as well with visualization, with the help of the visualization, you can actually as well enforce that neurological pathways and the circuitry that enforces you do the next time a better hit.

So this 2010, and then it was also the follow-up study with 12 others, where 100% proven everybody could do exactly the same as Wim did, which was to influence their autonomic nervous system and their immune system at will, whenever you want. And that was simply just...

Four days of really going deep into the breathing, the mindset, cold exposure, and then six days of practice at home all by themselves. In 10 days, they were able to replicate the exact results. And that's revolutionary. And usually in science, it can take weeks, months. I don't know how long it takes before you have these really drastic results.

And so it's almost that this, it shows how impactful it can work like a medicine. These inflammatory markers, they just went down immediate after one breathing session and some conditioning with training, of course. But after that breathing session in bed, and you even saw this master regulator of inflammation. And I like this one, the TNF-alpha, X-alpha. It was reduced by 53%.

Now for me, that is major through a natural, it's a natural method. You're doing it with your own breath. And for me, that's crazy if I think about it that way, right? So I always like to think like a normal person walking down the street, I'm not a medic, but when I hear these numbers,

I go berserk because you have medicine, they promise like one third of improvement of inflammatory markers. And that what after six weeks maybe or months of being on the medicine and then you don't know if they work. And so for me, this was one of the great,

groundbreaking studies that I see that it really changed the way that we have to look at healthcare, that we have to look at what we as humans are capable of. And of course, how much influence we do have, how much autonomy, how much sovereignty we do have. And we get to play in that just by tapping into these healing capabilities again.

of our own being. And we have those. We just need those keys to ignite them. One thing I wanted to get into was stress response. And something that really piqued my eye as I was reading the book is back in 2016, 17 timeframe, I had a real major incident happen when I walked into my house and encountered a burglar pointing a gun at me.

And I found this research in your book pretty interesting that although that event was horrible, it doesn't have the same impact that the tiny stress responses that impact us every single day have.

And it was interesting in the book that you put out that the vast majority of people, when they're going into a doctor's office, are going there not necessarily because of a physical ailment, but because of a stress response. And I think this is a really important thing to talk about because stress is causing so many things to go wrong with us globally. And it's affecting our health in so many ways, physical health, emotional health, mental health.

How does this method help that stress response? First of all, I do want to note that if you have a gun pointed to your face, you can as well get a PTSD. That's an entry for post-traumatic stress disorder. So hope you're good. You look good.

So in that sense, but it can be the difference between stress response, which we really want to point out is that you have this acute stress. The acute stress is indeed if at that moment you're facing a gun to your head.

And you know perfectly how to handle. You run, for example, you can run. The adrenaline goes up. You are in a flight of flight mode. And if you run successfully, run or successfully fight the guy, if that is possible. And you manage to overcome that situation. And afterwards, in the long run, you feel psychologically OK. That's a perfect way to.

that a stress response can influence our bodies and our minds and being. That's something that we want. The same as with a deadline or same as if you're avoiding something in the street that can be very dangerous. You want to have this quick stress response. And we actually don't have to think about the stress response. This is going automatically. And in many cases, it can help us.

But the thing is, in our society, these big triggers are not the main stress responses we are facing. Actually, what now happens is that you have a lot of little stresses here and there. It's psychologically, it's physiologically, it's from the environment. There are many things coming to our door, little stresses that eventually it can turn to long-grade stress and lower-grade stress.

And this lower grade stress has an impact on our bodies. So at the start, in the beginning, your adrenaline, when something happens, your adrenaline goes up. And if the stress or the stressor in this case is not going away, then the adrenaline, another stress hormone takes over because adrenaline, cortisol is taking over because cortisol is a more longer lingering hormone.

response of the body. So cortisol for a week is okay, for two weeks is also okay, but if it turns to longer than months, months or years, then that leads to low-grade inflammation. And your body is actually saying, there is something happening outside. We have to be in an alarming state of being. So there is inflammation, constant inflammation in the body.

And that constant inflammation, that can lead to diseases because you are deregulating the immune system. And this can lead to diseases as autoimmune diseases like thyroid, for example, thyroid issues, but even as well in our opinion, mental diseases, because your brain can't heal himself anymore. We are either in a restorative state or in a stress state.

So stress is good if it's getting balanced with the restoration. If you're long term in a stress state, your body can't restore and this eventually leads to deregulation. And that is the danger in our society because nowadays we have way too much stressors around us, which in the long run can lead to diseases. If you think about it,

We wake up and we have this upsurge of cortisol, which really is an activating hormone, but it's also a stress hormone. And it goes up and in a very healthy line of a day, it goes up when you wake up because you need to be active. You need to go out into the world, right? Meet your deadlines now or facing a lion or whatever what it is.

And then it really, in a natural state, you go home and then cortisol goes down and then the melatonin goes up so that you can go to sleep. Nowadays, actually, we have a constant mode of little stressors all around. It's our phone. It's the boss that's sending you a late email in the night. And that creates stressors.

stress in the night when you actually should be socializing, relaxing, metabolizing your food and then going to bed. But with these constant stressors, this constant cortisol flooding, flooded in our bloodstream, yeah, that means that we are on high alert. We're running from a tiger.

The whole day long, even when we're in bed, and then we wake up again. And if that happens for a long time, these constant stressors, modern day stressors, that creates a lot of problems in the long run. Because cortisol, if there's no clean, it also makes sure that we have a little bit of inflammation, which is absolutely okay when we come into the restorative phase.

phase of our day, which is in the night, and then we need to go to sleep. It's a restorative phase. That's when the inflammation gets cleaned up. That's when the rearranging in our brain is being done. And so when this doesn't happen, you get a build up of

of this inflammation because you're stressed all the time, no restoration going on. And that built up, that creates all of these different problems that we have. And we know inflammation is pretty much the basis of all modern conditions. And this is my statement.

We had to look at, okay, what, where does it say? Well, there are a lot of physicians and at least 95% of chronic conditions, for example, there are based on inflammation. But for me, it really comes down to inflammation. If we deal with that, and what is it? Just being in the restorative phase

state of our body, which is our natural state of being. We shouldn't be in a stress state all of the time. That's not how our body has been built. We have been built to deal with short-term stressors and then to go home,

relax so that we kick in the restorative part of our bodies, our self-healing capabilities, so that we can again restore and deal with the next stressors coming in. And that's when we also built up some resilience. The resilience is being built up after the stressor and it's even on cell level. This is why, for example, you stress,

What we do with the Wim Hof Method is use stress. So it's a short burst of stress. And that's actually how our bodies have been built. We like a little bit of stress.

But then it has to stop. So we like to run from the tiger and then to hide from it or we're being eaten. It's one of the two. But when we are hiding and then the tiger goes away, okay, everything calms down again. The system calms down. We can clean up the mess, the inflammation. But also on cell level, the cell understands, oh my God, what was that?

Okay, for the next time we need to be a little bit stronger. And so it begins a little bit of a house cleaning inside of the cell, it begins to wrap itself around a little layer, a protective layer and so we become stronger for the next bout of stress, and that is building stress resilience.

We're not built as modern human beings to deal with this constant short-term stressors. We're not built. Yeah. And this is why this method is so great as well as regulating stress. So at one hand, Laura said it very beautifully, eustress, hormetic stress, it gives a big stress point.

Yeah. The elderly goes up and it goes down and then like emotions, et cetera. When you're facing an issue, your cell has that as well. Afterward, it becomes more resilient.

Okay, more resilient. So that is just one entry. And the other one of the Wim Hof method, what we are doing actually with inducing controlled stressors, because these are controlled stressors, is that, yeah, you get a big bounce of stress, and then you're relaxed.

And then as well, what we have seen in research while doing the method, so they put some people in fMRIs, they checked the brains, did some research, brain research, and then they saw actually that this endocannabinoids, the ECB1 receptors, endocannabinoids says receptors 1, increased.

And what it means, actually, these are widespread in the brain. 10% of the cells are, you have these receptors on the brain. When you have more of these cells, you actually are increasing your stress response. Because these receptors, if you have more of these receptors, they act as a stress buffer.

So for a next time, if you're practicing it for a long run, they did this measurements for during six weeks. So they measured just one week before the methods and one week after. But there they saw an increase of these receptors and it means a better stress response. So that means actually when stress comes in, you are less reactive. You're more responding. So stress hits you.

less harder. It's also the endocannabinoid system, opioid system. It's the same system that we actually also give a boost when we use painkillers. So actually Wim Hof method, it's a natural painkiller. Well, I love all that explanation. The last area I wanted to spend a little bit of time on is we started this whole conversation about

purpose and talking about your dad and some of the feats he did and how his method led him to become passion struck given the title of the show and this sense of agency and empowerment that he has. But a lot of what I've been talking about lately is I think there are a lot of people out there who keep going through the motions and they don't feel that their actions and their lives matter, that people really see them.

How does the Wim Hof method help people reconnect with their sense of self-worth and empower them to feel that agency, to feel that sense that they belong in the world? Wow. Well, for that, I really think you need to have this deep connection with your inner self. And if you lost that, then you can

not understand what actually your road is or what you want to be or what you believe in, what is important for you. If you don't know those things that are important for you, how can you act on it? And that deeper self is for me intuition as well. So connecting within the self and what we have seen and noticed a lot with practitioners is that they really can connect with a deeper layer of themselves.

What is important? Well, you have to know that. And with the breathing exercises, I don't know if you have done it, John, but with the breathing exercises, with one good session, you go deep in that system. And what is important for that moment, what is important, like it comes out. You feel, first of all, very connected to the body, a lot of love.

and a clear sense of direction as well. So the noise that can be created by the external us, like all these demands in society, that falls off. Those layers are gone. So you can really connect with that deeper self of you.

Once you're very good connected with that deeper self of you, what are your values? What is important for me in life? You don't have to have always a clear plan, I think, but you do need to have that connection. That's that connection. And then once you're connected to that, you know the direction better. And that gives the purpose. You don't have to be the president of the world. Sometimes people want to be very big. But what...

impact from you in life? What is the impact from you for yourself, for you, the people around you, the circle around you? And then if that is completed, if that is more clear, then you can think, oh, actually, this is already it matters. And then you can see as well, what more impact do you want to have? But first, start with yourself.

and then as well with the people around you. Yeah, there's such a thing that is called interoceptive focus and that is really the deeper connection within that we get to sense what is happening within our body, that we have an internal world which you cannot see from the outside, right? And we get constantly triggered from the outside and that means that our brain is going on, yeah, repeat, start, it's like a monkey mind that cannot be still.

And actually with this method, what you really do, well, try to sit in an ice bath and think about your problems. It's impossible, right? You really have to really connect with the body, mind, body in that moment to really center yourself and go through that transition in the ice bath, coming out unscathed and professionalized.

Preferably with a feeling of bliss. That's what I have. I think an iceberg for me, it's a complete feeling of Zen. And so it stops you thinking about the past. It stops you thinking about the future. It puts you in the here and now. And I think that is a instant meditative practice. You can do that through meditation, but it's very difficult for a modern human being to sit still.

And meditate for 15 minutes. It's very difficult. But this is what we do also with an ice bath. You go into the ice bath, you sit in it for two minutes and there is no way. You either connect with yourself, a deeper connection, or you disconnect and you go out.

yeah there's no cheating there and that's why i find it so beautiful because it almost for it's like forcing but once you get there it's a deeper connection deeper that i cannot explain you can only experience you can only feel and sense it while you're doing it you can explain all you want but just do it and you feel a deeper connection that it goes through all of these conditioned layers and

The conditioned layer is also this rumination. And so we put ourselves in the here and now. And in the here and now, that's where you find acceptance. That's where you find peace. That's where you find clarity. That's where you find a deeper connection with yourself and a deeper knowing. And there, there are no outside voices. It's only you.

And not even your persona. I think it's even you and your soul. I cannot explain it any other way. Yeah, you and your soul. And that means that anything that is unimportant, it just falls away. And of course, when you have that deeper connection with yourself,

and you bring that out and you are in a state of bliss after, then it's so much easier to connect with the world. You just are relaxed. There is nothing to gain. There's nothing that you need. You're at ease. You're at ease. I love that explanation. And it's that connection with one of us. But I also believe that we are creative beings.

We are people who strive for growth. So that is by doing the things that are important for us. Where do you want to create in? Creative is not just painting. It's as well solving an issue or excelling in another area that is important. But first, you need to understand what is important. Where do you want to create in? And where do you want to go then? And then have the discipline as well to make the proper steps.

Because by that creating, it gives that sense of wonder as well and that sense of purpose and a sense of accomplishment. And then you want to continue. Once you're in the flow, I think that there you find the very big passion.

and that you also understand and have the confidence to follow that path. That's actually, I have to remind, we have women that come to the workshop. I have the funniest stories actually. Sometimes they're anxiety ridden, right? They come in the workshop, they have no idea if they want to do the ice bath. Like, is it okay if I just sit in the workshop? But the ice bath? No, not the ice bath. Is that okay? No worries. At the end,

I make sure that everybody goes into the ice bath and they love it. But I remember a woman that came to our workshop and she was very shy, didn't really talk a lot, but she had a major breakthrough. This was a woman that was doubting so much in her life, actually busy with so many rumoration. And she wrote us a letter afterwards that this workshop, this couple of hours gave her

the resolve the empowerment to go after her dreams she quit her job and started her own company and these type of stories we hear all of the time and why because it gives you just that clarity and that empowerment to really go after what you want it is with this clarity and this empowerment together coupled together then you go on your purpose

The shedding of these layers, this conditioning, that's what we're talking about. And then that's where your purpose lies. What you both said was beautiful. And thank you so much, because I think it's exactly what the audience needed to hear. I wanted to end today on this book was really written in many ways to create

and Ice Woman community. How do you envision this movement evolving to further support and empower women globally? And where can listeners learn more about the movement and how they can become part of it?

For me, this book, and this is how I see it, it's our way of really helping this balance of male and females out into the world. We know that women struggle much more than men with all kinds of different stressors, their different societal expectations, and

I just wanted to give women these tools that make them aware of what it means, what is stress and how does it affect women and what they can do with it and how the method can support their hormonal balance, which is a major one. And that all ties in the way that I see it with stress.

And so when you give a woman these tools, it just makes sure that they get more sovereignty over their happiness, health, and strength. And we know that there's so little research with regards to women and health, while it is absolutely necessary,

Just because we have a different hormonal profile and so medicine will have a different effect. This book was really to actually explain what we are already seeing in our communities with regards to the Wim Hof Method. Women that have more regular periods, women that all of a sudden can get babies, women that are using it for the symptoms of their menopause.

This book was a culmination of all of these questions of which we just had to deduct the reasoning based on information out there and what we have experienced as experts. And so I think this book is going to help so many women around the world. And that is why it was so important for me to

to give them really tools to deal with whatever they're dealing in their lives. That is first very practical hand on tools, give them more sovereignty over their stress management and going after their goals. That's also one thing that I think is very important. This empowerment of woman from a very beautiful feminine place, but that they can do anything that they set their mind.

too. That is important for me because we need strong men, we need strong women, because both will build up communities and really raise this consciousness of this feminine masculine divide that I see up into the world. And I want to make sure that this happens with all women around the world and then for next generations, all of the little girls out there that all have mothers.

So that is why it was so important for me. Yeah, that's beautiful. Okay, a beautiful set. And for us, yeah, both is to bring more women to this practice because we can imagine that when you see Wim as a role model, you think, ah,

There's nothing for me. The cold and then adding on the cold is nothing for me. But it brings so much power. And with that power as well, the intuition, but as well, the vulnerability, it goes all hand in hand. And by really practicing this method and try it out for yourself and then see what it does for you.

So for us, this book is really to empower women and to answer the questions we have seen many times. So the book is out there. It is April 29. And yeah, we think it's a very valuable book for a lot of women who are curious about the methods, but as well about women's health in general. So there is a lot of things that we still need to understand about

And we did quite some research as well in women's physiology, the hormonal influence on our state of being and how you can be stronger, become stronger, more resilient and feeling more empowered. Yeah, this is I think it's really a fantastic book and it should be in the hands of every woman. And if you are a man, give it to your partner, give it to your mother.

Give it to your neighbors. I don't know. And read it yourself as well, because it's, I think it's a really beautiful book with so much information, science backed where possible and a lot of expertise of decades long. So we condensed it all into the book and yeah, April 29th. And it's,

We got through Barnes & Noble, Amazon, major outlets. So please get the book and make sure that we can continue with this revolution and this beautiful movement that we try to ignite and support in many ways in this world. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was such an honor to have you. And to answer your question, Isabel, I've been doing breathwork since I was in my early 20s. I first

Discovered it when I was working with Navy SEALs.

And we used it to help regulate our bodies so that when we were in stressful situations, we knew how to calm ourselves. That's when the whole journey started for me. And yoga has been a practice that I've done for decades. Amazing. A Navy SEALer. I actually trained the Navy SEALs as well. I was there, yeah. Oh, man. You have to win the war within. Yeah, there's a lot of them.

Tough guys, very tough guys. The Navy SEALs, isn't that the four square box breathing? Yes.

Beautiful, beautiful. I thought so. I thought so. That's amazing. Breathwork is just because we have this tool within and by tweaking that, it changes your whole physiology. And that's beautiful. It's revolutionary. Well, something so natural, so simple can have such a big effect. So it's beautiful. And we hope that with this book, yeah, many more women will do cold exposure, breathwork and learn to use their minds.

That's awesome. Well, thank you again for coming on the show. Thank you so much, John. Thank you, John. It was a pleasure. And that's a wrap on today's conversation with Isabel and Laura Hoff.

and what powerful when it was one of my biggest takeaways that healing doesn't always happen in warmth and ease sometimes it takes cold it takes discomfort it takes learning to breathe in the storm rather than waiting for it to pass whether you're navigating burnout emotional pain or simply seeking more clarity in your life is about and Laura story shows us that resilience is something we can cultivate breath by breath

Moment by moment. So here are a few reflection questions to sit with this week. What discomfort are you currently avoiding that might actually be calling you towards growth? Where can you slow down and breathe?

especially when life feels so overwhelming? And what might happen if you give yourself full permission to reclaim your power, your softness, and your stillness? If this conversation sparked something in you, I encourage you to check out their book, Secrets of the Ice Women, links in the show notes at passionstruck.com. And before we go, make sure you're subscribed because this Thursday, I'm sitting down with Dr. Stephen Gundry, world-renowned cardiologist and best-selling author of The Platt Paradox and Gut Check.

we're diving deep into the science of gut health longevity and the everyday foods that may be silently sabotaging your energy immune system and cognitive clarity if you care about living longer feeling better and thinking sharper you don't want to miss this one and don't forget if you're in tampa

I'll be interviewing Gretchen Rubin live this Thursday evening at the Oxford Exchange. There are just a few tickets left for what promises to be a rich and inspiring conversation around her newest book, The Secrets of Adulthood. We are truly a symbiotic organism and bacteria have been around for three billion years.

the most successful life form ever. We've only been around in our current form for about 100,000 years. A lot of us now think that this bacterial part of us, the passengers are driving the bus and they're driving the bus for a really good reason because they've had a lot of experience with living

And again, I make the argument that they are sentient beings. They see, not with eyes like we see, but they can read the barcodes on neighboring bacteria. We've known this for many years. It's called quorum sensing. They know who's in the house. And you go, well, what the heck? How could that be? Well, they carry messages.

Thank you for being part of this community, for showing up to do the work, and for choosing to live intentionally. If you found today's episode meaningful, please share it with someone who you care about and leave a five-star review. It helps us reach more hearts and minds like yours. Until next time, stay strong, stay curious, and stay passion-struck. With the Chase Inc. Business Cash Card, you can earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials, so your business can go from here to Possible.

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