Karen Salmansohn on How to Live a Life You Would Die For | EP 632
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Coming up next on Passion Struck. We all tend to procrastinate until something is really due and until we know there's a deadline looming. And death is the ultimate deadline. And in some ways, I wonder if death is the universe's sassy way to get us to stop procrastinating. Because imagine if we lived forever.

we'd be like, you know what? I'll tell her I love her in a millennium or I'll finish writing this book maybe in a couple centuries from now. So when you realize the time is limited, it puts fire under your tush to really do things. And really, instead of like fear of failure, you have fear of regret that you didn't do it. It switches things up.

Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles, and on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the

power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become

PassionStruck. Welcome to PassionStruck episode 632. I'm your host, John Myles, and this is the show where we ignite change from the inside out so that you can live with greater intention, deeper meaning, and a life that's truly to die for. This month, we're continuing our brand new series,

The Power to Change, a collection of conversations exploring what it really takes to evolve, not just in your habits or routines, but in your identity, beliefs, and personal narrative. On Tuesday in episode 631, I spoke with Dr. Bob Rosen, bestselling author and global CEO advisor about how real transformation begins from within. We talked about ego, fear, and the emotional attachments that keep us stuck.

and why lasting change requires letting go of what no longer serves us. And last Friday in my solo episode, I closed out our Connected Life series with a personal tribute to Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys and shared a framework for realignment through the lens of congruence, the invisible force that makes connection possible. If you haven't yet, grab the congruence workbook that goes with it. Available now on theignitedlife.net.

but today we're shifting gears and turning toward another powerful force emotional healing because if transformation starts with interchange what happens when you've spent years living someone else's version of your life what if the scariest thing isn't dying but never really living my guest today is karen somenson

best-selling author, psychology-driven self-help expert, and the voice behind the new book, Your To Die For Life, How to Maximize Joy and Minimize Regret Before Your Time Runs Out, which releases July 22nd. In this episode, we unpack...

while your next choice, not your past, defines your future. How to break free from negative dominant narratives. We go into the to-die list that replaces the old to-do list and why your soul, not your schedule, should lead the way. Karen brings a one-two punch of science and soul

And I think you'll find her blend of vulnerability, wit, and wisdom unforgettable. And remember, if you want to go deeper, don't miss The Ignited Life on Substack, where I'll be sharing a takeaway of this episode and tools to help you reclaim your story. That's theignitedlife.net.

And of course, full-length interviews, episode shorts, and behind-the-scenes content are all streaming now on our YouTube channels at John R. Miles and PassionStruck Clips. So let's get into it. Here's my conversation with Karen Salmonson. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. ♪

I am absolutely thrilled today to welcome Karen Salmonson to the Passion Struck Podcast. Welcome, Karen. Oh, it's so great to be here. I'd love to open these conversations with this question. We all have moments that define who we become. Karen, what's a defining moment for you?

I think it was when I was in advertising. My first career startup thing was I was a writer and a creative director in advertising. And I was making money and being successful, but I was not inwardly happy. And there was a saying that we used to say that our boss would say, if you don't come in on Saturday, don't bother coming in on Sunday because he made us work weekends and everything.

So I kept threatening to quit. And my parents at the time thought that was crazy because I was doing so well. How could you quit? You're doing so well. And I was like, that's how I can quit. Ironically, if I was doing terribly, I'd probably stay. But I figured whatever I'm doing here that's making me so successful, maybe I could take that and apply it to my passions and do what I want. Like the zen of my being would just apply to the next thing, you know?

And after they told me to quit too many times, I was old enough that I thought it's not up to my parents. It's up to me.

So I quit and didn't tell them for a little bit. And then I wrote my first book. That's why I wanted to quit. And it came out, I sold it to St. Martin's Press, and then it got optioned to be a movie by Marisa Tomei with Miramax. So trusting my inner self and being brave and not listening to my parents or society, what you should do, it got rewarded. And here we are today.

I have to ask now, have you ever gotten a chance to meet Marissa? Oh, even that was a strange story. What happened was my first book was a novel and my literary agent had never sold to the movies. But when we sold it to St. Martin's Press, he asked for a chance to sell it himself to the movies.

So I felt so grateful to him and loyal to him. I said, you know what, give it a shot, even though that wasn't his area. So he spent a year trying to sell my novel to the movies and he couldn't do it.

So about a year later, he and I got together and we decided to get a real movie agent. So we got one that was at CAA and we showed him the novel and he said, okay, yes, I'll represent you. I love your novel, but you know what? Now it's too late. It's been a year. Write something new. I didn't want to write anything new. I love my novel. I wanted it to be a movie. So I

occasionally I'd call him up and I'd say, Hey, how about sending it to this actress? How the, and he kept saying, write something new, write something new. So I saw that Marissa Tomei was performing at a theater here in New York, where I live, a theater called Naked Angels. And

So I took my novel and I wrote a little note on a piece of paper and put it all in an envelope and left it. I gave it to somebody at the door of the theater. And I said, could you pass this on to Marissa Tomei? And they said, sure. So I told all my friends about this and they thought I was like wildly optimistic and that it was ridiculously hopeful. And then a couple months later, I was eating, I remember I was eating a bagel.

And some woman calls on the phone and says, "Hi, this is Marisa Tomei. I read your novel and I love it and I want to option it." And I thought, "Oh my gosh, this is probably one of my friends mocking me for being so wildly optimistic. Do I bother to stop chewing my bagel in this obnoxious friend's ear?" And I thought, "Well, just in case it's Marisa Tomei, I'll stop chewing." And it was really her.

And that's how I wound up getting my novel to Marissa Tomei. I met her, spoke to her. She's the one that brought it to Miramax. And that's how the deal got struck. What an amazing story. So I have to ask, I loved her and my cousin Vinny. I think she made the movie. What is she like in real life?

just as adorable, just totally adorable and real and down to earth and just great. But the movie didn't get greenlit. It didn't get greenlit. But Miramax did give me some other opportunities to write TV show stuff and do other things. But the movie itself didn't get greenlit, unfortunately. I remember one of the things they said was they didn't like I used voiceover in the background. It was very modern and it was before Sex and the City.

And my book had some Sex and the City type of humor and elements. And then Sex and the City came out and they kept using that voiceover in the background. And I was like, oh, grumble. Because that was something they said. It's a little too, I don't know what it was. But it was a little ahead of, a little more feisty ahead of its time. Well, it sounds like it was their loss.

Well, thank you. Thank you. Yes. But, but that's how that's one of my, and I actually, I do believe that if I look at everything that has ever gone forward in my career,

It's because I did something a little ballsy that I did something that was I didn't just give 100 percent. I gave 150 percent like I dropped it off at the theater or I made that phone call or I just did something out of the ordinary. That's how each of my career moves have happened because of that. Absolutely love that because that's what this whole podcast is all about. And I think it goes right into the book.

that you have coming out that leads right into what you were just describing. The book is titled You're to Die for Life.

how to maximize joy and minimize regret before your time runs out and before we get into the book i just have to ask i i've written two novels now i have a children's book coming out later this year which for me was a significant learning curve and a big departure from what i've done previously but i'm really proud of what it's shaping up to be but i've thought about writing a fiction book

Like you did, but I'm wondering, do you find it more difficult to write the fiction books or the nonfiction ones? The answer is it depends how much it's in your craw. Like this novel, I couldn't wait to write it. Like it wasn't even discipline. It was, I had to get it out of me. So if it's in you like that, then it will be easier. But the second novel I kept trying,

delaying because I didn't really know. I didn't know the ending on the second one. Maybe that's it. Maybe you have to know, you really have to feel like, oh my God, this ends well. And you're like, I have the killer ending. And then you can write it because I just kept delaying because I was, I didn't really get the ending exactly right. And with nonfiction, that doesn't happen. You know what the gist of the book is and you keep writing. So I think that might've been why I didn't finish the second novel.

And I did other books. I've written a gazillion different kinds of books, humor books, business books. I've written kids' books, stuff like that. And my answer is how much is in your craw?

and how much you can see the full vision of it. And also getting excited. Oh my gosh, people really need to hear this. People really need to read this. That pushes you when you're ready to procrastinate. Like I had a book, The Bounce Back Book, which is a resiliency psychology book. And I wrote it after a bunch of really my terrible year

And like very one weird thing happening after the other, weird is a euphemism for traumatic. And like, I remember thinking to myself that I kept waiting for like a candid camera crew to pop out behind the planter in my living room and say, surprise, you're on a reality show because I was like, so many bad things happened in a row. And then I wrote the bounce back book and

And every time I would hesitate, I would think, "No, people really need these tools." And I kept thinking about that.

And I remember that helped me with some of my procrastination. And with the novel, which was my very first book, I would, anytime I felt like a little bit hesitant to keep going, I had this thing where I would go to Barnes & Noble and I would look, go into the fiction section of the store. And my last name is Salmonson. And I would envision my book on the shelf. And I saw I would be next to Salinger.

be Salinger Salmonson. And that kind of gave me a giggle and a little extra keep writing, like I'm going to be next to Salinger. So I would visualize it like that. One of the things I talk a lot about on this podcast is my own life and that there were moments of it when honestly I should have been on cloud nine because professionally I was killing it. But

I really felt like I was living adjacent to my life, but like I was a spectator to it. And you open your to die for life with a bold twist. And it's not a near death experience, but a near life one, like I just described. What was your personal moment of realization that you were also living life adjacent? And that is exactly how I write the book that I recognize that

I was having a near life experience, which is when you're on autopilot or you're looking at your phone so much, or you're worried about the future, regretting the past. And my wake up call actually was when my dad died. So that snapped me out of my autopilot slumber, so to speak, and made me realize that we don't have forever.

our lives like we know there's this thing called death but it's amazing how strong our death denial is and when you wake up to realize that we're here and then we're not you want to do everything you can to make the here part as meaningful as possible and so

When my dad passed away, I realized that although I was very happy with where my career was going, that I kept putting off starting up a family till someday, to someday. And I thought, you know what? I don't really have all the time in the world. So I have my dad's death to thank for my son's birth. And in fact, my son, oddly enough, was born on August 27th.

four years after my dad passed on August 27th. My dad's death day is my son's birthday, which I kind of love. It's like a wink from my dad to me. Good going, Karen. I see you. So I really do believe that mortality awareness creates urgency and urgency creates action. I love that. And I'm sorry about your father's loss, which you write about in the book. Isn't that incredible how the same birthday...

I know. So this really gets us to something you really talk about in the book, that death is the ultimate life coach. And when I hear that, it's provocative, but it's true. How do you think that death awareness helps us cut through the noise and clarifies really what matters in our lives?

I think that we all tend to procrastinate until something is really due and until we know there's a deadline looming. And death is the ultimate deadline. And in some ways, I wonder if death is the universe's sassy way to get us to stop procrastinating. Because imagine if we lived forever. We

We'd be like, you know what? I'll tell her I love her in a millennium or I'll finish writing this book maybe in a couple centuries from now. So when you realize the time is limited, it puts fire under your tush to really do things. And really, instead of like fear of failure, you have fear of regret that you didn't do it. It switches things up. Death puts things into perspective.

And gets you to hurry up and stop dragging your feet and do all those things that you want to do. Yeah, I agree with you there. And it's interesting because oftentimes we have a bucket list, but we could also have a to-die-for list, right? Yes, yes. In the book, I talk about how I have a to-die list, which is different than a bucket list and different than a to-do list. It's like a to-do-what-matters-most list.

Because you can check off everything on your to-do list and get to your end of your life and think, oh my gosh, what did I do with my life? Because there's a difference between being productive and living a meaningful life.

And so I write a to-die list every morning, which has to do with actions that have more meaning and purpose and love and core values in it. And I'll back up and explain that a little bit more. So before I decided on the to-die list, the reason why I decided on creating it was after my dad passed away and I gave his eulogy, I started thinking about what I wanted my life to be.

And I thought, you know what, I'm going to write my own eulogy. And so I wrote out my big long-term picture from my life. And then I thought, well, what does current me have to do to become aspirational eulogy me? What bridge habits do I have to do to make sure I get from current me to aspirational eulogy me? And then I reverse engineered it.

And in my book, I help people to write their eulogy, which is something that I know a lot of people might have like some creepy, cruelly feelings about, right? So I make it easy on you. I created like this template, this Mad Libs type template where you fill in the blanks. So it's very easy to write your own eulogy. And then I'm going to give you a little spoiler here, which you can still read the book. It's just a slight spoiler that the blanks in the eulogy are core values, right?

Because when you get to your end of your life, the way that you're going to think, yes, I give my life a 10 star Yelp review is if you've done everything you can to be your highest potential self. And the way you get there is with core values. So my to die list has core values in it. It has identity based habits based on core values. So I think about what my

top core values are. So for me, it's being authentic, being brave, being curious. I have a whole bunch of them. And then I asked myself the following question, who do I need to become to get everything I want in my life? And that could be based on the eulogy or

If I'm having a goal that's more in my present, like what I need to do that month or problem, like who do I need to become to stop fighting with my son? Who do I need to become to finish that second novel? Who do I need to become? Right. And then I think about the core value, loving. I want to be loving. I want to be disciplined. And then I add that to the habit.

And the reason why I do this is my background, after I quit my job in advertising, I learned everything about behavioral psychology. So my books that I've been writing before this one, and including this one, include behavioral psychology techniques in it. And so there's this whole study around identity-based statements, that when you link your identity to a habit, you're more likely to do it.

And we do it right now without even knowing we're doing it. For example, if you think I am sloppy, you're going to do the habits of a sloppy person. If you think I am neat, you're going to do the habits of a neat person. If you think I am brave, you're more likely to do the habits of a brave person. And if you don't, it creates what's called cognitive dissonance.

So you want to remind yourself of your core value, and then that will motivate you to do the habit more. For example, in my book and with my clients, even I really talk a lot about being loving. That's a big core value. And if there are some difficult, complicated relationship you have with a parent,

You remind yourself of your core value. I am loving. And so I call my mother, father, sister, brother once a week or whatever. And you remind yourself to try to be that core value. Then you're more likely to do the habit. And those are the things that go on your to-die list. You might not be aware of this, but the whole foundation of this podcast is based on behavioral science.

So I really look at choiceology and that it's the choices that we make, the micro choices, I call them, really are the ones that determine the outcomes that our life amounts to. And so I've had at this point over 75 behavioral scientists on the show, from Angela Duckworth to Amy Edmondson to Annie Duke to Brian Lowry to Katie, I might've said Katie Melkman already, but

A lot of those folks, because to me, behavioral science is

A little bit different than neuroscience in that I think it can change your direction much quicker if you take action on the principles. Yes, I completely agree with that. And then this is, I'm so now I was glad to be here. Now I'm extra wildly glad to be here. And my book has a lot of behavioral science in it, psychology and how to, because I was, it's funny. I was doing an interview like a day or so ago and,

And we were talking about once death wakes you up to what you need to change, then you have to change it. And I was thinking to myself, what's scarier than death is the fear of change. Oh my gosh. Okay. Now death woke me up that I need to make this change. Now I'm afraid of making the change. So I thought that was like interesting as I was talking about it. That was a new thought for me that change is actually scarier than death itself.

So how do you make change more inviting? So I have little baby steps to do that in the book as well. I'm going to talk about one of those here in just a second. But before that, I just wanted to reiterate why this book is so important. There's a Cornell professor named Tom Gilovich. I'm not sure if you've heard of Tom. Yeah, and he has ended up studying thousands of people in their third trimester of life. And he looks at what their biggest regrets are. And 76% of them

all have the same regret and it's not fulfilling becoming their ideal self. And it really coincides with the work of Bronnie Ware and other people who've been in palliative care who write about the same thing as the number one regret of the dying. What you're writing about really coincides with both

real research like Tom Gilovich's and actual experienced research like Bronnie Ware's. Well, I mentioned Gilovich in the book. He's in the book. And I talk about the regrets of the dying in the book also. So I'm right there with you on this. So yes, completely.

So one of the other things you talk about in the book is the concept of a dominant narrative. And you listed some examples of this previously, but I'll list a couple more. These are the repeated stories we tell ourselves. I'll always attract the wrong person or I'll never get ahead in life. From your perspective, what's the first step someone should take to recognize when they're trapped in a dominant narrative that's negative and what helps them to start rewriting it?

Okay. Well, the first thing I do when I'm working with somebody or even a friend, anybody, even myself, if you're feeling in a dark negative mood, I have people hunt for their always and nevers, which is what Seligman calls permanent and pervasive thinking to see where that is. Because that's usually at the root of a lot of depression or anger. And once you figure that out, then you have to soften those always and nevers and put them up on, be like a

lawyer to them and go, oh, really? Oh, really? Always? And then like prove that always is a liar and never is a liar because they usually are.

And I actually never say they always are because then I'm falling into the same trap. In the book, I have a bunch of steps that you can do. One of them is something called chronological mapping, which I don't know if you saw that part of the book, but it's interesting. And chronological map, I like to make things visual. I did. It is interesting. So I'd love you to go into it. Okay. Okay.

so after you figure out what your negative dominant narrative or even this could be what reveals it because you might not even know it until you do the chronological mapping so i don't know which would come first with people but if you found it you want to undo it or if you want to figure out what's at the root

What I suggest is people get really long paper, like a butcher roll of paper, or you could tape together in half by 11 sheets. So they run across the table and then draw one long line through it. And that line is your life.

And then what you do is you start to make little dots on that line and little notations that are about what they call inciting incidents in the screenplay business or in the novel business, like things that are the moments, like first fall in love, first big breakup, first big job, first lose a job, health issues, fight with someone, whatever it is.

and you mark it down and then you have fun with it. It should be fun. You color code it. You can put like little doodles of like hearts where something is or broken hearts or make it colorful, make it interesting and look for the patterns.

And then also I have people look at how something could be either a gift, a bridge or a zigzag where it took you to something else. What did you learn from that? How, because you lost that job, did that take you to something better? And you start to look for the patterns in it. And the other thing that happens is,

If this is your life, and I want you to draw the line until you're 100. I want people to think very optimistically about being 100. Look how much more life you have left ahead of you. Because when you're in the middle of a trauma or a challenge of any kind, we can start to think that my life is ruined from this one thing and nothing is everything.

The part cannot be greater than the whole. You have your whole life that is a part of your life. When you see this long line ahead of you, you realize there's more opportunity. There's more runway. And some people, when they hear I wrote a book about death, they think I'm an end of life doula, but I'm more like a middle of life doula or a beginning of life doula because here we are, you're still here. There's still time to change it as far as we know.

And you should use that time to make those changes and start thinking about what you want the rest of the dots on that timeline to be like. Thank you for sharing that. I think that is a fantastic example. So I'm glad you went through it. I also loved your identity-based habit example that you had in the book. I'm discerning, so I choose food that honors that. It's clever, but it's also backed by research. Can you unpack the science behind research?

identity based habits and why Bidubidubi works better than doobie do. Yes.

In the book, I say that Frank Sinatra is a great singer, doobie doobie doo, but he's a backwards thinking personal development author because if you want to accomplish your goals, you have to sing and be do. You have to think about who you want to be and then that will affect what you do. That your identity is the puppet master of your habits, not the other way around.

So that's part of why I have the core value, what I create, I am, and so I do statements, the identity-based statements. And with the discerning one, that happened by accident. After my son was born, I'd gained a lot of weight. I was in denial. I kept calling it my pregnancy weight, but my son was like two years old. So it was my, I eat too much crappy food weight, but I was not really aware of that.

And I remember one day I was on the phone with my publishing house and I was working on a book with them that had photographs and illustrations in it. And I noticed that the colors were somewhat coming through the paper on the first spec spreads that they showed me. And I said, can we get thicker, toothier paper? And I realized I'm so discerning in the books that I do and the fonts and the colors and the paper.

value, the core value of being discerning. And then I thought about it and I thought, I haven't really been discerning with the foods that I'm eating. And this created the I am and so I do. I am a discerning person and so I eat healthy foods. I eat in a discerning way.

By owning the core value of discerning, when I looked at the pizza or the macaroni and cheese or the cheddar cheese goldfish, I thought a discerning person would not eat that. And it helped me to resist it because again, it creates like this kind of cognitive dissonance, like,

If you're not, wait, I value discerning. Oops, I'm not being discerning, but I value discerning. And then you wind up eating like a discerning person. It really does work. And it creates a ripple effect into other areas of your life. Once you really become aware of what your core values are and how important they are to you, you start to be discerning about your time or discerning about how you spend money. It really does, it changes your habits. Your identity is different.

your puppet master of your habits. I just wanted to go a little bit off topic here. Sure. Talk about core values, but in a way that my people think a little bit differently. And I'm going to talk about company core values. So I used to work for both Lowe's Home Improvement and I worked for Dell. And when I worked for Lowe's, although at the time they were like 48, 50 billion in revenue, it still felt like a family run company.

And I remember you would walk into headquarters and the core values would be right in the entryway of the waiting area everyone was at. They were also in the cafeteria. They put them up on walls. You would walk down. And I was a senior executive there. And I remember that the CEO, every time he would speak, would highlight core values, especially ones that he wanted people to

to be aware of, and he would always ask us to pass them down to the teams. And I remember when I was at Lowe's, people were so proud to be there, whether it was wearing Jimmy Johnson, the race car drivers shirts who we sponsored, or people just wearing shirts that had Lowe's logos on them. I would say about half the people you would pass were wearing something about Lowe's and

I really think the core value played a big role in that. And then I transitioned to Dell, and although they had core values, they didn't really instill them in the same way. And it really showed up in how people felt about the company. And I remember I could go for days without seeing someone at Dell wear a single piece of Dell apparel.

It was just a completely different feel. And I'm wondering if that is a good analogy for ourselves thinking about our own core values and when you make them presence, like you were talking about, even when they come down to our food choices versus when they're more invisible as they were at Dell. And if that makes a difference in how they show up in our lives. Absolutely. The more you look at that word, the more you're aware that matters to me. That's why you write it down on your to die list.

But I even wonder if you're wearing the company logo, if that makes you feel closer to the company, identify like a tribe member, a family member of the company, and thereby it makes you subconsciously care more about the company because you identify so strongly with the company because you've emblazoned it on you. So you feel like you are...

family there. And so thereby you care more. And that kind of makes you

You try harder or something for the sake, cause you identify you're wearing it. I think a part of it was that, and I think the other big part, at least when I was there is that they were constantly talking about the customer. That was a CEO removed. So I can't speak to the gentleman who's there now and what the culture is. But I did notice that as we switched from Wilkesboro, which is where the company started to Mooresville, just north of Charlotte, where it's now based, things started to shift.

with the culture. So it's been a decade removed. So I'm sure it's much different now. Yeah. Well, going back to the book in sections that you have in chapter seven, eight and nine, you go through your daily life. And in chapter seven, you go into the morning routine. And in chapter eight, you go into the midday integrity slump and you call it the number one enemy of a fulfilling life. And I want to start here.

here instead of the morning routine, because I think this is an important one. You write that most of our biggest regrets come not from ignorance, but impulse from choosing what's easy in the moment instead of what's meaningful in the long run. How can people start recognizing those small silent decisions that I referenced as micro choices in real time and what's helped you the most in strengthening your own greater than muscle? Okay.

I love this. I love this whole topic. I love Aristotle. I'm just kidding. I love him.

And I love Aristotle's philosophies and stoicism and all of that. And Aristotle, he actually makes a lot of, I write about him a lot in all of my books, and he makes a big appearance in this book in particular. And I talk about how he believes that you should begin every project with the ends in mind, including that gigantic project called your life. And he says that

He thinks that everybody should think about how they want to feel on their deathbed and then reverse engineer it. And he said that a lot of people, the reason why they're unhappy is they confuse pleasure for happiness, hedonia for eudaimonia.

And pleasure, hedonia, is about impulse-driven joy. And it's more of the enjoy now, struggle more later. And eudaimonia is more about fulfillment and it's more about struggle a little now, but enjoy a lot more later. So in order to really live a meaningful life,

you have to really tap in more into the eudaimonia. Now, Aristotle was not against hedonia. He was more about doing everything in moderation. So he definitely believed that we are sensory creatures and our soul needs pleasure. It needs some hedonism, but in moderation.

So when you're in the moment during your day, the problem is we start off our day strong thinking like I have it planned. I'm going to be my best self today. But then life throws things at you. It's like an obstacle course and you can forget about what you agreed to in the morning.

So you have to, I use what I call the greater than sign. This is in the book, the little greater than sign. It looks like this in math where the little pointy tip means less than and the open part was greater than.

And you ask yourself in the moment, which is more important to me, which is greater for me. So let's say it's Netflix or writing that second novel of mine. I bring out my little handy dandy greater than sign, which is more important than

me, who important to me? And you ask yourself those questions throughout the days and you make you pause and it's about pausing. So there's speed bumps. You have to create speed bumps in your day to slow down. Otherwise you're going to keep doing the impulse driven thing. And if you create these speed bumps by stopping and asking yourself, which is more important to me. And then that actually drills in what your core values are.

Yeah, I love that. I was going to ask you to follow up on that sign of the greater sign, so I'm glad you brought that into it. And I also wanted to touch on chapter nine, how to end your day aimed in the right direction. And this is where you go into depth into your nighttime reflections framework. But you describe at the end of the day, not as a crash landing, but as a chance to hand the mic to our inner stoic, or maybe even give ourselves an Oscar. And I think

looking at it through those lens is such a memorable image. What inspired you to blend those seemingly opposite lenses, which I look at as rigorous self-reflection and joyful self-congratulation into a bedtime ritual? Well, because I do think we should be gentle with ourselves as well as wanting to look at our lives in a realistic tough love manner, not just tough love, love as well. The stoic lens is to really see

the truth of where you did well and maybe where you stumbled and what you could have learned from it. And

One of my big beliefs on life and Aristotle's too, and stoicism's too, is that we are here to learn lessons to become our best possible self. So every little stumble can be used as like a learning aid. And so this is where you end your day thinking about analyzing. And then the Oscar lens is where you talk to yourself about what you're grateful for.

and you celebrate the things and the people. And then you think, maybe I want more of that. So it helps you to recognize that as well. So one of the most poignant lines I found in this chapter is when you say we lose authorship of our lives line by line. And I think it's a powerful reminder of how our days slip away when we don't pause. What's one question a listener could ask themselves each night that helps them reclaim that authorship? What did I learn today?

How can I learn from something that happened today would be something. And also, what was my most meaningful moment today? What was something that I'm grateful for today? Who am I grateful for? Who do I need to let know that I'm grateful to them? What do I need to do to celebrate this person even more so? Things like that. Thank you for that. And Karen, I recently did a solo episode where...

I was saying so many of us get absorbed with trying to measure our lives in a return on investment. And I made the case that I think we're starting to measure the wrong things and that what we should really be looking at is a return on our energy, which gets into our emotions. And I'm using this as a lead into your chapter 20, which is titled Love in the Time of Emojis, Seeking Emotional Death in a Busy World.

And you write in this chapter that deep quality relationships are not just the icing on the cake of life. They're the whole damn cake. So in a world where we've replaced heart to hearts with heart emojis, what do you believe is the most overlooked but transformative daily practice for rekindling real connection? Active listening, really listening. Too many people talk. I think it was Fran Lebowitz who said the opposite is

of talking isn't listening. The opposite of talking is waiting. Like you're like waiting to get our turn in there. And also even now that I'm thinking about it,

It's not just the waiting part, but it's the trying to impress part. Too many of us are wearing masks or we're doing our, with the same version of what we do on an Instagram highlight reel. We're like showing up for coffee and we're bringing like the promo folder of our lives and setting it down rather than really talking vulnerably from our heart. And you shouldn't be talking vulnerably to everybody, but your inner circle, you should be. And in the book, I realized that

In the very beginning, when we spoke about writing a book and knowing how the book's going to end, like I knew how this book was going to end. But as I wrote it, it became more and more clear to me that what makes for a meaningful life is meaningful relationships. That is one of those things that, and you know that, like you could know you are what you eat if you think that. But when you really know it, that's how I walked away from writing this book.

Meaningful relationships are really that's the whole everything of life. And then from there, being of service is also and meaningful experiences and self growth. But meaningful relationships are so key that we really have to put more effort into it.

I couldn't agree with you more. And I have been focused for the past few years on art and science of mattering because I think we are facing a mattering deficit and the repercussions of it are loneliness, hopelessness, and a whole list of other symptoms that we're seeing become huge epidemics across the world. I love that phrase, mattering deficit. I love that. And I agree with you completely. Definitely.

If I have it correct, Karen, the chapter I was just quoting is where you brought Ronnie Warren, who we discussed earlier. Because as you rightly pointed out, three of the five regrets of the dying are about connection, about our relationships, which is why this matters so much. Yes. Actually, I interviewed a bunch of end of death people.

doulas, and came up with a list of more than five end of life regrets. And I referenced a bunch of different people that are experts in end of sitting with people at the end of their lives. And I have a whole chapter on that, on looking at those most common regrets, and then reverse engineering them and figuring out which core values can best

make sure that you're applying regret, resistance, zeal into your life. And I reverse engineer those. And then I give people, I am and so I do statements to help them. Like pre-written, I am and so I do statements for them to put on their to-die list to make sure that they're doing them, that they're living a life with purpose.

that they're spending time and really listening to the most important inner circle people in their lives. And I give them their own in case they can't brainstorm it. I make it easy on people because some people like to read a book and use it as a workbook and journal. And some people are just, just...

Give it, make it simple, please. What are some things I put on my to die list? So I do it. I have both. I have prompts if you want to do it yourself. And then I have my suggestions in case you just want me to give you what's been working for me and for my clients. If a listener right now feels like they're stuck in a near life experience, but they don't know where to begin, what's the smallest possible first step you'd offer them? I actually have something in the book about doing a life audit.

and seeing where the, what I call the crap and clutter in their life is. And I have journaling prompts for that because they have to really figure out where are the areas that they're most stuck in a near life experience. So is it at work? Is it at home? Is it with friends? And try to figure out what those areas are. That reason, one of my favorite core values is the word curious, right?

Because if you're curious, then you're going to want to look at things like, why am I stuck in a near life experience? What can I do to break out of this? What am I supposed to be learning here? Why am I programmed this way? What happened in my past? So it really does involve a lot of what I call contemplation. So one of the things that I think is really important if we're going to live the life that we've been discussing today is

is to figure out a way to forgive ourselves when we make mistakes. And you have a whole chapter on this. And in this chapter, you bring up the story of Lynn, and it's both humorous and heartbreaking. I was hoping maybe you could go into Lynn's story and use this as a way to describe forgiveness.

With my story with Lynn, I was at a restaurant with my family and I went to the restroom and I saw it written on the bathroom wall, Lynn plus men who don't love her. And I looked at that and I thought, oh my gosh, Lynn has a negative dominant narrative problem. Lynn plus men who don't love her.

So I was tempted to write underneath it, Lynn plus men, who she is programmed to revisit each time because she needs to finally repair some underlying issue or something like that. But I didn't write it, but I thought about doing something like, so what you have to do, if you have a pattern in your life, you have to take time to dig down and understand where that pattern is coming from. And I feel like a lot of people,

think, and this goes back to Hedonia and Eudaimonia, that a lot of life, that happiness is so important that life is supposed to be this den of pleasure. But life is not just a den of pleasure. It's a laboratory for growth. And you have to figure out if you have a pattern of pain

You have to be brave, embrace the core value of brave, embrace the core value of curious, tell yourself those core values and dig deep and understand where your patterns are coming from. And that's where also chronological mapping can help the exercise that I spoke about earlier to try to see where the patterns of your life are coming from.

And then from there you apply, I am. And so I do statements to break it. You tell yourself, I am brave. I can move. I can stop doing this. Whatever the, I am, I am brave. And so I choose new habits. I am, whatever it is, your core value is, who do I need to become to stop this bad habit? Brainstorm the core values and then create, I am. And so I do statements based on those answers.

So it's a tailor to you situation for most of these things, but not all of them. Some of them are general to die. I am. And so I do statements that I think everybody should have on their to die list that have to do with meaningful relationships and having a life where you have meaning and purpose. Karen, I wanted to end in your last chapter and you write, you know, that expression, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

And you say, well, Aristotle, who you brought up previously, said it first, but he said it in his own particular style. He believed that the universe was in a state of constant motion, you're right, always changing, always evolving. However, there's one thing that never wavers, what he calls intellect. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it correct, but it's your unique to you highest potential, something that's always waiting for you to tap into it.

So my question for you is your book isn't really about death. It's about fully living, playing into what Aristotle said. If you had to sum up your message in one tweet for the audience, what would it be? Well, just from that, do actions your soul can be proud of that. Oh, here's one that I do say in the book. This is memorable. The soul is your G spot for happiness.

that we're really here to grow who we are. So that way, no matter what happens to you, you tell yourself, this is for the education of my soul. And if you don't like the word, not everybody responds to the word soul. And quite frankly, I'm a little more psychological than I am spiritual, but I still love that word soul. But you could call it core self. It doesn't have to be soul, whatever your core self. This is the education of your core self.

And so no matter what happens to you, it can help you to grow into your best self. And the end of your life is not going to be about all the mistakes you made. It's going to be about all the growth you had and all of the lessons that you learned. So it's a reframe in that direction. I love it. Karen, I know you've had millions of books sold and everything else and people know where they can buy the books, but where can people learn more about you?

Thank you. Well, my last name is Salmonson. Everybody mangles it and says it. So to make things easy, my website is not salmon.com and my Instagram is not salmon. And then I do have a website based on my book called you're to die for life.com because that's the name of my book. You're to die for life and you're to die for life is available everywhere. Bookstores are sold and even in some places like gift stores and all of pretty much everything.

Target and Urban Outfitters, all of those places. I love it. Thank you so much for joining us today. It was really an honor and really aligned with a lot of what we love to discuss here on the show. I'm so glad to be here. I love everything that you're doing and everything you're talking about. It's right up my alley. I love it.

Thank you so much. And that's a wrap for today's episode with Karen Solmanson. And I hope her message stuck a chord with you just like it did for me. Because this wasn't just a conversation about death. It was about authorship, about writing a life that's meaningful before your story runs out of pages. Here are a few truths that I hope you carry with you that stuck with me. Your past is just a chapter. It's not your whole story. Change doesn't start big. It

It starts with tiny identity-based shifts. And you don't need more time. You need more clarity on what really matters. If you want to explore this further, then pre-order Karen's new book, You're to Die for Life, and visit notsalmon.com to explore her courses, books, and more. As

As always, links are in today's show notes at passionstruck.com. If today's episode inspired you, share it with someone who needs that nudge to come back to life. And don't forget to subscribe to theignitedlife.net. This week's newsletter will include a special takeaway from this episode, plus tools to help you build your own to die for list. For organizations, teams, or leaders looking to reignite their purpose, I'm currently booking keynotes and workshops on intentional leadership, transformational change,

and the power of mattering visit john r miles.com speaking to learn more and coming up next tuesday in episode 634 don't miss my conversation with kayla shaheen new york times best-selling author of the shadow work journal we'll dive into the healing journey behind her viral success and what it really takes to move from brokenness to breakthrough you have to be intentional to protect yourself

In this digital age, because nobody else is going to do it for you. The ISP, your Internet provider will not do it for you. They're trying to help with certain things. But the fact is your Internet provider is sucking up all your personal information with everything you do back and forth. They're part of the game. You've got big tech. Right and big business constantly looking to suck up our personal information, which.

invariably ends up in the wrong hands and goes sideways eventually. You have the government that really has not been a proponent down to the individual level, certainly on a national level or an enterprise level or a military level, but not on a consumer individual. You must take the initiative yourself on behalf of yourself as a head of household for your family,

Until then, live boldly, lead with heart, and remember, ideas don't change your life, you do. Live life passion-struck.