Serial S02 - Ep. 10: Thorny Politics
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Bank tok. Com to get started today. Equal housing lender member F, I, C. One of both lawyers sent a letter to downed d trump about a week a half ago regarding a possible deposition of trump or a possible appearance as a witness during both court martial.

Dear minister, trump a request to interview you as soon as possible that trump been doing this bit about boat. On the campaign trail, i've watched video of IT about how crappy the trade was, how bose a trader, how these taliban terrorists are back in the fight, about how in the old days we shot people like bow on the battle field. Nothing sometimes does this stupid right attack thing with his fingers. None of what trump says about bow is true, not in the way trump implies, but the audience. So always gives a big media role when he does IT.

In the old days, deserters.

the share.

Ever since i've been reporting this story, when i've asked people, people on all sides of the thing, what bothers them in the most about those case, we'll say, I wished hadn't gotten so political, sucks that got so political. And usually I just not like air politics, this trade for boys. Just one more thing for democrat and republicans to yellow each other about. But then when I really looked at IT, I was like, going a minute. Was IT inevitable that I got this combat tive, because maybe I could have gone another way.

From this american life and W B E Y, chicago, it's cereal, one story told week by week. I'm sarana. The day of the trade, president obama makes this big announcement. He's leaked by bob and Jenny bergdoll. He hugs them, kisses them.

And even though the president never called by a hero the heft of announcing IT at the White house in the rose garden, the pump of IT in front of all those cameras, IT felt like the president was communicating something heroic, a triumph which, if you're someone who served in the military, maybe someone who went looking for both, say that message was bad enough. But then the very next day, national security adviser Susan rice went on T. V.

SHE was on one of the sunday news shows, and the host to George Stephens asked her about the, finally, on this point, I surgeon burger rather red, a lot of questions about how he originally was capture and whether or not he had deserted, had left his post. Is that going to be investigated if it's found that he did? Indeed, I leave his post. Will he be disciplined or paid the Price?

Certainly.

anybody who's been held in those conditions in captivity for five years has paid an extraordinary Price, but that is really not the point. The point is that he's back. He's going to be safely reunited with his family.

He served the united states with honor and distinction, and will have the that wow. Honor and distinction to a lot of military people. IT was like the administration had reached out of their televisions and given them the finger right in their living rooms. And then IT became this, like, oh, he's a hero who served with honor and distinction. Ba blood really made me .

angry that talked about, and I started honor instincts that that had pretty hard. I was.

I read is just like, wow, wait a minute. Some government officials were saying that the circumstances of sergeant bergdoll capture weren't clear, and the soldiers were like, oh, the circumstances are clear. He walked away.

That feels so shitty to be told, well, we don't really know the truth. That's mark mercury, who's in both batan IT took us, you screaming into the internet to be heard. Some of the guys from both former unit got in touch with each other. Immediately someone started, if he's not a hero, facebook group people started tweet. One of them was cody full, who'd been in both botton code, actually roomed with bow back in training.

And he didn't wants to talk to me on the record for this story, but his weeks got the attention of a media guy named brad chase and of a guy named rick, or now a public relation strategies who's worked for some big name republicans. Chase and great work together. And they said to code, do you want to go on TV get a wider audience for what you want to say? Join me first tonight.

Former army specialists cody foll and Jerry sutton, who are both first stop with fox news. Cody, let me start with you. Do you believe that bob g. Doll deserted?

Yes, I do believe he deserted without a double.

In my mind. The other guy on TV with code that day was jerold sudden. He was also in both botton, his friends with bow.

He told me cody had contacted him and said, we hata do something. Will you help me? Years before, jill said he had tried to tell people what had gone down.

That boat walked away. He wrote something on the internet. Few others had to, but he said nobody seemed to pay much attention back then, and he worried the same thing would happen.

Now I didn't think anyone actually take us seriously. And please, I guess like the reason why we had somebody, people behind us is that if one of us just came out and set IT, then people just be like, I use the disgruntled son. So maybe if the entire books you in came out and said, say, on r and that maybe you would be taken seriously for once.

Or we are joined now by six members of bober doll of patton's guys. Thank you all so much for being here. So the group got bigger few days later, fox, again.

This time a panel of portunus soldiers made other TV appearances CNN. A, B, C, M, S, N, B C. We're hearing a lot about him from his fellow plan on members you serve with him, and from what you like to see a dishonorable.

able discharge for him. Yes, yes, he needs to be held one hundred percent accountable .

for what he is served with. Him in afghanistan have chAllenged his account. The fact the matter is, is he deserted us in the middle of afghanistan to go and find the taliban among the latest.

They were a lot more like eloquent when .

we had to say that just .

sun again and more precise. And they seem more entertaining to about me. So i'm very blind.

Geral didn't want to go on any more shows. He knew his limits, and he wanted to stick to the facts. No opinion, no speculation.

And I want, even though it's like thirty second, if so, one of here in there, I gott want someone just to be like you just going. He is to shut up. I somebody had to say you .

and that was that the problem was that maybe gerold was like bow, a fact based dude, but he was just no match for the juggle that was now up and rolling. Fox news, especially, was all over IT. In fact, just before they had that panel of six guys from second platoon on they're aid, an exclusive report breaking.

Tonight we are learning exclusive and dramatic new details about surgeon boo bergdoll time in captivity, including reports that he became a muslum and at one point declared himself a warrior for islam. The story was based on, Frankly, bullshit intel from a to credited source. But now he was out there and was repeated and repeated.

Next, the politics of IT. All that became the story. The obama administration was using both trade for political purposes.

Note the right was using this for political purposes, using these former polton's tes for political purposes. After all, rick renal, the media guy helping them, he was a big republican strategist. Again, for guys like jerold, none of that was the point.

They weren't trying to attack the president. They weren't even trying to attack bow, even cody full, who spoken early and often on the topic of bow. He testified at a congressional hearing saying, you want to make sure bow was held accountable for what he did but even he resisted obama bating by republican congressman.

If you could say anything to president obama regarding this trade, what would you say?

I'm not to answer that.

Fair enough. Mister walls, you're four warned same questions.

but at the same hearing, mike walls also testified. He told the committee he was there before them, in part because of the rose garden mixed utinam kernel in the army reserves of former Green bery. He'd been commander of army special forces, but he said went on lots of missions looking for bow.

Before that, he worked in the bush White house as a special adviser to dick Cheney on south asian counterterrorism. When I read mike testimony and codes are like, all this is because of a five minute ceremony in the rose garden, just because of how IT looked. I asked mike about that, and he kind of schooled me. Are you saying like like none of us would even be talking about this if basically, you know, the president had done that rose garden thing and .

and then tried to politicize IT? I will answer out well.

yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean, is this all about the optics in other words, or is this like, know what I mean? Are you just sing like I won't even be I wouldn't gotten my life. Father's are thought about this if there .

had been I can. I don't want to speak for for anyone else. I don't believe that I would have been as vocal. Um that was was a just an an incredibly tone death move on the part of the White house. I think that shows how disconnected they are from both the pentagon and I think and is truly lack and understanding the military culture. And when you have the national security advisor in a civil military system or who the military has to listen to, essentially nine, handing on national television, sending the signal that this man was honorable, um I was afraid that I would all be you a forgotten that this was going to be politically swept under the carpet to .

mike into a lot of people watching and listening to the president that day. IT wasn't just what he's said where glad boys back were committed to ending this war, we support reconciliation, were committed to closing gmo. It's not just that he said all of that. It's what the president didn't say. That's what was glaring.

no recognition or even mention of we understand there were some irregularities or some question about his disappearance and I want to assure all veterans, all former P O W. And everyone involved with a search that we will objectively, unfairly get to the bottom of what happened. I I felt that um justice was not going to even be attempted to be served.

I've asked, many people know these many months in other parts of government, what was the White house thinking? Why they do IT? And everyone i've asked that, like, I don't know what happened over there that day, but sure, they were rett IT.

Now, well, they do regret IT because this rose garden event that kicked up so much anger and resentment, evidently, IT was put together kind of spur of the moment. One of those things were you like, I know, let's have a party. IT would be great, except big fat mistake.

None of IT, the president speech, the podium, the rose garden. None of IT was the original plan for how to announce his trade. The original plan was a much quieter affair.

No one would talk to me on tape about this, but off tape, I talk to several people who worked in the White house at the time. They all told very similar stories about what happened that day. So this is their version. Here goes.

Both rescue Operation was touching. Go for several days. Remember the sea? Seventeen sitting and sitting at guantanamo. IT was highly ire, the whole thing, and they all went smoothly in the end.

But leading up to IT, you don't know if the special Operations guys, helicopters gonna crash, if they going to get into a firefight, you don't know if boys going to get hurt, killed during the rescue. And IT had to be stone secret the whole time. The guitar I had made IT clear, if even a word of this gets out beforehand, the deal is off.

And people, the White house, thought this might be the last real chance to get bow back, and was stressful for much of the week before the trade inside the White house and the national security offices. They've been working around the clock. If I see the scene in a movie, what does that look like? Mostly I was sleeping under my desk for four days of the total recovery.

That's jeff eggs. He was a special assistant to the president for national security affairs. He is also a retired navy seal. He deployed to iraq. He had worked in afghanistan.

He'd been helping coordinate both recovery with the D, O, D and the state department because IT started to gain momentum that week and IT was, are you are you being you for mitic? You're sleeping in your desk or you are actually slept on your desk? No, I was actually sleeping under my desk.

Well, I actually is next to my desk for four days. I think that was also the week that the president made some significant announcements about troop decisions in afghanistan. Was actually a big week.

Was the timing of that just coincident president obama had already done a more solum rose garden event that week, may twenty seven and twenty fourteen, he announced a big draw down of troops by the end of the year and a plan to get out of afghanistan fully by the end of twenty sixteen. Quote, americans have learned IT is harder to end wars than IT is to begin them, he said. And now a few days later, may thirty first, they just gotten word, the Operation to rescue boat had worked.

He was alive. He was safe. The national security folks and the White house press folks knew I was gonna be lumpy. This news that trading five taliban was gona be controversial, that the circumstances of both capture were going to be a topic. They knew the people I talked to in the White house weren't strangers to military culture.

Some of the people who worked on this exchange had been in the military, such as jeff eggs, or had worked closely with military, had worked in war zone. They thought I was important that the president owned the decision to make this trade, that he explained the policy behind IT. So the original plan for how to announce IT release a written statement from the president, the pentagon would also release a written statement at the same time done.

But then, well, bob and Jenny bergdoll happen to be in town. Theyd come to dc for some meetings that have been scheduled long before with the administration. No one told this was about to take place.

Their visit to D. C. Was not planned to go inside with both return.

They were in a park playing with some friends, little children, when they got the car. And IT seems to make sense. They're in town already.

Instead of just a phone call, the president will see them in person. And now here's where i'd argue. There was a blind spot about how all this would look, and that no one in the White house seemed to catch IT.

Some of the people on staff had been working on this for years, first the talks with the taliban, then the Operation to get. Though the'd met with both parents before some of them. And so what people told me is that for them, it's not that they were oblivious.

It's just that day, that moment, they felt so happy they'd been on tender hooks for days, weeks, even. And now this horrible soga had come to an end. No one had gotten heard, and you've got both parents right there.

You can see their faces. They are crying. It's affecting meanwhile, there are some very good reporters in washington and at guantanamo, as i've and a few of them had known, this was gna go down, but had held off reporting IT.

And so now the White house press people thought, well, we need to play ate them to please them, because if we have the burg dols here with the president, and we don't let some photographers catch that scene, give them what called camera spray, are going to be pissed. So maybe let's arrange, at least for that, maybe a shot of the president walking and talking with the bird dolls, for instance. And then, well, IT was such a Sunny day. I was such good news for once.

Why not just do the whole thing in the rose garden? So in the space of a few hours, he went from a simple statement to a rose garden ceremony in the idea, both parents talking at all from the podium, much of less BBS, speaking some words in past, too, in arabic, those ugly and prompt to, as for the Susan rice thing, ambassador ice politely declined to talk to me for this story, but the White house people I talked to told me they craned when he said IT, they said, talking to the press is not her forte. SHE got a little defensive, and this clay tumbled out honour and distinction.

Few days later, rice explained herself, saying SHE just meant that volunteering to serve his country in a time of war was an honorable thing to do. But by then, honour in distinction was already caught in Amber. There wasn't going to be any shaking at lose.

You're pretty isolated when you work in the west wing. That's what one person used to work there told me. You're pretty cut off from the Normal work at a world.

And it's easy to forget how iconic IT all is the columns, the podium with the presidential seal. They told me there wasn't a concerted effort to make bober doll into a hero to White wash. What happened in afghanistan? They say, they know that looks that way, but there really wasn't a grand political calculus.

They say they were just tired and abuzz with relief, and they thought everyone will feel this joy, right? They got Carried away. In hindsight, one former stafford told me we should have thought about IT more, that there were other audiences who are watching people who suffered. Quote, the rose garden, put a target on our back. The thing is, and this is me talking, I think I also put a target on bose back.

Just walk with me now, along this path from the White house, up the street, ways to capital hill. I swear we won't stay there too long. But this is the next place where the politics of this trade hardened and intensified. And I get IT it's congress.

There are in a constant state readiness to hate anything president obama comes up with but this time, ww, first off, no one from the White house or diode or the state department, no one told congress this trade was about to go down. So members heard about IT on the news basically, like everyone else by law, the administration was supposed to notify congress thirty days before any detainee was transferred out of guantanamo, but this time they didn't. And that was on purpose.

The White house didn't want members to get mad and to try to stop the deal from taking place by leaking into the press, for instance. Why did they think congress would get mad? Well, because the administration already knew that congress thought its stunk this deal back in twenty twelve when the trade was still linked to peace talks with the taliban.

And IT really seemed like you might go forward. The White house had arranged in classified brief ings and special rooms on capital hill where the stuff happens aren't and members had made themselves pretty clear at the time their reactions to a proposed trade of five taliban guys ranged from skeptical to horrified. For instance, then senator saxby chambless, republican from georgia, at a brief ing of the senate intelligence committee on january of twenty twelve, almost two and a half years before IT actually took place, talking about trading these top guys for bow.

I want to stay publicly as strongly as I can that we should not transfer these to tines from gann tono. So the administration worried.

understandably, that if they thought IT up again, IT would get crushed, they might not be able to get go back at all. The decision was made. Don't say anything. So by twenty fourteen, a lot of people in congress assume the deal was dead, which was a reasonable thing to think because that's more or less what they've been told over the years.

You can see in state department memo s in january, in february of twenty fourteen, even as the administration was working to revive the deal, officials called around to certain offices on capital hill to certain members of congress about the bergdoll situation. And the calls ended with quote. We told them we would keep them updated and continue to consult before taking any action on quote, but they didn't consult congress because here congress was hearing IT on the news.

All of that was was a surprise.

Just how bladen.

yes, how how big an intentional misleading congress was as part of this.

That's mac thornberry, texas republican. At the time of the trade, he was a member of the houses armed services committee known as ask. Now is the chairman.

Ask oversees the department of defense. And ask staffers on the republic lan side told me that that relationship with dod has traditionally been pretty solid CoOperative straight forward. Now they realized D O D had been the lead on hammering out this final girl deal, and he told them nothing.

For instance, just three and a half months before the trade happened, the washington post publish a story quitting. Unnamed sources talked about the five taliban going to doha was pretty detailed. And so some asked staff, they say they asked the D, O, D about IT he is or anything to this.

And they say they were told, nope, it's possible, probable actually, that the person they called wasn't lying. They weren't in the know. Meanwhile, emails are singing among all these other government officials who are in the now quote, who's this very accurate info? These leagues are killing us.

We need to talk about getting control back. Tony, blinking at the White house, sent one around about his dismay and discussed over the leaks since IT could derail the deal. Simply put, whoever is responsible should look him or herself in the mirror and ask, by what right did I jeopardize the life of a fellow american? Here's stone berry. Again.

we had specific questions. You are these press reports, right? They denied, denied. In looking back now, we know that in some instances, they were too cute by half by saying we were not in negotiations today when the guy was about to get on a plane and and go to the middle to have negotiations tomorrow.

What he's talking about is a congressional hearing in late April, just a month before the trade, a state department official was asked about efforts to recover about, and he gives this kind of cryptic update. He says that agencies across the government were striving in the most, quote, energetic and creative ways we can devise unquote to secure bo's release. Unfortunately.

the taliban broke off at contact with us in january of two thousand and twelve. We would very much like to return to dragon contact with them. And if we do, at the top of our agenda will be surging bergdoll IT is certainly not the case as as was reported that somehow the taliban micron I network are seeking to release him and and that interagency squabbles within the united states government are preventing or delaying them.

Bong, thank you very much. I continue to be impressed .

that same guy was in doha by the next day for a meeting about the bergdoll trade. So yeah, the administration wasn't exactly forthcoming with congress. On the other hand, that wasn't open hearing and he's talking about a deal so fragile still.

He doesn't know if it's gona fall apart like the others before IT, regardless, once ask staffers on republican side went back and trace exactly what they were and weren't told. Once they investigated the whole trade, issued a strongly worded report about IT. That report then entered the political frame.

Democrats, called IT an expression of shrill demography, accused the republicans of using the trade to push their national security agenda. Republicans accused democrats of exactly the same thing. I talked to some hack suffers again on the republican side about this whole thing. And they sounded to me surprisingly, genuinely upset by what had happened to their one's collegial relationship with D, O, D.

If that's going to be the relationship going forward, then there is nothing. What can we rely upon um but they are telling us about any given issue.

Like you just feel like you don't trust those guys anymore.

yes. Is this a .

bigger like this is the biggie that you've seen where you're just like I cannot believe how this went down? Or is this just like, oh my god, there's like this happens like three times a year on different things.

We view this is .

unprecedented. This staffer said we're not just foot stamp here that you guys didn't tell us.

Actually a profound concern about .

national security .

risk and the risk to um are in particular not exclusively but in particular our .

force and deployed overseas .

and in the afghanistanis.

So if we're worried, she's talking about the taliban five. They felt like the president and the D O, D had done an end run around the approval process for gtm o transfers.

And you know, who are these five talent guys anyway? How can we trust you that they're safe to release that they won't rejoin the battle who signed off on this this part of the fight over bose trade? I just want to talk about IT for minute because IT mirs a deeper bear nuckles fight over guanta omeo the president wants to close guantanamo o most republicans in congress, even though president bush wanted to close IT too, they've opposed the idea since obama took office.

And one of the arguments they make is that some of the prisoners we've released from gemma have rejoined the fight. And that's true. Most happen, but some have.

So it's a fair question, right? What about these five taliban guys? Where are they safe to release from guantanamo? There's probably nobody, including the military, who knows the ins and outs of gemma Better than carroll rose enberg from the miami herold. I've actually asked military people questions about guantanamo, and they've referred me to Carol rosenberg. Carol explained that these five guys were what's known down there as forever prisoners.

They hadn't been cleared for release and they hadn't been and wouldn't be charged with crimes, but they also weren't going through the administration's new review process, an inner agency board meant to assess each detainee who was still down there and figure out whether they could be cleared for transfer or should still be held. By all accounts, this review process is a much more rigorous and more rational. Look at the intelligence that has been done in the past.

But again, these five guys weren't on the list for review. Here's Carol three. These guys got there on the first day. You would have thought that they'd get the first reviews, but they didn't. And i'm watching through the years.

Why are they reviewing these guys? Why are they are reviewing these guys? And I started asking questions really early wired these guys me because my instinct was my thought was we know that they're trying to trade with you think they're trying to push him through the board to get them in position um and then um they're not. They're not. And i'm like, I wonder if they think that the intelligence people won't clear .

them right on .

the right. If you have an on paper, then I would look even worse for the president, right? yeah.

Imagine if they've been rejected for released by the board and the U. S. Had traded them anyway.

Since there wasn't a review, we don't have in any public way at least a recent intelligent assessment on these five guys. However, I talk to someone who should know that I, Nathan, not his real name. You heard him back in episode five.

He's the guy who was close to the recovery effort for bow, and he worked with both parents. Nathan is not a lefty, his former military, and he was an intel analyst at gemma. The specialty was afghanistan, pakistan.

He did two stat antonomasia for a total of three years ending in twenty thirteen. So he knew all about these taliban guys. His office that give me was a stone thrown from where they, they were being held.

Navin reddy admits that he is biased. And so far as he wanted boat to come home and he was working toward that very goal, but he was not happy about this trade. He doesn't hate IT like a lot of his peers in the analyst world, he just wishes IT hadn't come to that.

But the only option left for the president was the skip mall option. There wasn't the political will to do anything else, but he also thinks these five guys, they are okay to release. They're being watched closely in cutter their high profiles so they can't hide.

Everyone knows who they are and what they look like, Nathan says. There's just not much they're be able to pull off even if they want IT to they're value to. The taliban in afghanistan, he said, is pretty much limited to a rally .

and cry yeah was very familiar with them. And honestly, I didn't feel that IT was that big of a danger to release them. I really .

didn't know even even the sort of guys a ni and fossil who were the kind of biggest fish that seems like ah yeah definitely they're .

not going to be that they're not going be trouble like they if they're ending up being trouble is because you know we let them be trouble because we drop the ball on you know keeping an eye on them.

Do you feel like you guys had cleared or I know it's not your jo B2Clear som eone for rel ease but had rec ommended rel ease or had see n peo ple rel eased who wer e on par wit h the se guy s?

Sure sure yeah um and you know we've released guys that we always shouldn't have. We didn't even know who they were. yeah. I definitely we definitely released some not so good guys that were pretty close to these in level with these guys.

right? So it's like you didn't see the names and just like freak out, like I can't work.

There's only like one or two people that get more that would freak me out if we like K.

S, M. If you were on the list, that might be way .

that's going to be a problem. Yeah that's definitely gonna a problem. Oh really .

so but it's you're being serious like they're really only a .

few who yeah okay you know and Frankly, we got to do something with get them leaving, get more. They would have laugh anyway, at least we make use of them yeah so so .

the hot react to this trade. Nathan says he understands IT, but he also says it's not exactly based on the facts.

The the anger over releasing those guys comes down to a lot of the same reasons why people are, you know, still mad at above or walking on the best like it's it's it's very personal thing like you know you know they feel very strongly about what these guys i've done and know what kind of people they are and you don't negotiate, you don't make trades, you know so they're wrapped up in a larger moral question.

So obama released these five guys. Congress didn't like IT. And to be clear, congress doesn't get a vote on individual, get no transfers like this. They're just supposed to be notified right after the trade. The White house explained that the secretary of defense had followed all the requirements for the detainee transfers, that the thirty day notice could have endangered bose life, and that they believed the president had the constitutional authority to this decision.

But he agreed, all around republicans and democrats, the administration had pulled a fast one by not giving the thirty day notice, and the government accountability office, which is non partisan, found that the D O D broke the law by doing the transfer the way I did, which that happens sometimes. President obama, definitely not the first to claim executive power in order to make a move like this. But when a president does that, a rankled congress tends to push back with whatever power IT has.

In this case, one way to do that, get my legislation. So here's a fairly tangible effect of the trade for bow. There's this massive annual defense bill is put together by the house and senate armed services communities and talked inside IT for the past five years.

Is language specifying what the secretary of defense has to do before he can sign off on any foreign transfers of gmo detainees? After the bird doll trade, republicans decided to change that language to make IT harder to transfer anyone. Adam smith, the democrat from washington state, was one of four lawmakers trying to come to final agreement on that bill last year.

I talked to him over the summer when he is still in the thick of arguing with republicans over the harsh or transfer language. Smith has been a big proponent of shutting down get now here. I were both on the phone when I ask him about IT.

Both of us travelling in cars actually. So the tape isn't great. How much is the the bird doll trade for the taliban, those five taliban guys? Is that a shadow over what you guys are doing right now like or in how bigger shadow .

it's a pretty the invasion of? I said that I don't think we would be having the discussion of further foreign transfer restrictions.

Really well .

yeah well.

so that .

they have in the discussion to one again .

and yeah republican mac thorne berry, who was also one of the four lawmakers negotiating that bill, said it's true. The bird down thing is corrosive. They were not gonna budge on that stricter standard for letting people out of get mo.

No, there's no question. I mean, there was a direct result of uh, the burg gold trade and the not telling congress the truth.

Another result, less tangible, maybe, was that outrage and suspicion over the trade spilled over onto bow himself. June eleven, thousand and fourteen, the house armed services committee held a packed hearing on the bird doll trade.

At the start of this hearing, i'm pleased to welcome members of the public who have such an interest in these proceedings.

The chairman opened by saying, we are not gona talk about regal personally.

Let me be clear up front on the focus of today's hearing. IT is not my intention to dive into the circumstances of the disappearance of so then.

of course, IT came up testifying before the committee was defend secretary chuck hao. He had to answer all the who knew what when questions that we're pissing congress of. Representative jeff milla, republican.

took a turn at the mike, did you or did you not notify congress within the third day time frame? Yes or no? No, no. What I was now. So yes or no, does the administration intend to violate the?

And then Miller started asking questions about, well, why are we hearing from him? Why was he still in american military hospital in germany?

And what we are doing is we are allowing what mr. dr. dr.

no. mr. Carry way a minute, way a minute. Why hasn't even returned to the united states? We have seriously wounded soldiers that are returned to the united states almost immediately after they are stabilized.

How long to just ask a lunch? Wait before he was returned to the united states, are trying to tell me that he's being held at, launched to germany y because of his medical condition contest. When I hope you're not implying anything other than that.

The fact the question, mr. Secretary, i'm going answer like the application IT. The .

implication.

I think, was that maybe something fishy was going on with bell, something embarrassing to the army, that maybe this bergdoll fellow, an american soldier whom we had just brought home at enormous cost, had walked off to join the taliban, and now they were hiding him away in germany. He go ended all of this off.

This isn't just about a physical situation, congressman. This guy was held for almost five years, and god knows what kinds conditions. We do know some of the conditions from our intelligence community, not from, by the way, burgle, this is not just about Kenny, get on his feet and walk and get to a plane. So because he cannot be questioned because of his condition, i'm telling you is that the medical professionals who rely on their judge his health.

So what was going on in germany at an army hospital in lunch store, but he was undergoing this really pretty profound transition. The official word for IT is reintegration. At first, as you can imagine, every single thing is weird for him.

He can't talk really. He's blinking and squinting. For five years he'd had only a few things, a bow, a blanket of water bottle.

He says his mind had adapted to the simplicity of that. And now of the sun, there are all these people. He's got to interact with them.

There's all this stuff. Ff, around furniture. He's not used to. For instance, one of the first things that happens is they bring him into this room and their chairs and a sofa, and they tell them, where do you want to sit down as fine?

You know, I heard the work fit basically. I just that because that's what I was used to doing, squatted down and plop down in indian cross leg and style on the floor.

Yeah and so all these commanders, they follow suit.

Everybody was sitting down on the floor and we're talking like cap and we're talking like goes like a general there. There are currently, or something this now that I think about this kind .

of pony for the seer community, that the militaries survival, evasion, resistance and escape training for them this moment, getting back A P O W, who had been held for that long alone and survived IT was huge. IT hadn't happened since vietnam. Am, the military had been practicing for both, returned for months.

For years, really. They cleared out two entire wings of launcher forum. In one wing would be bow in a few seer folks.

In the other way, all the intel administrative people, commanders, computers, bow, is interacting with just a small team. But everyone involved was so over excited. I guess all these commanders and cycles are are supposed to take over when bogus to san antonio.

They all showed up in germany, and then they just hang out, sit around in the hospital wing. Nothing to do. Apparently, one psychologist from europe arrived on his own dime, offering his services.

They set the poor guy away. One person who was on the germany team told me that all these people IT was like, they wanted to be holding you to meet him. They wanted to touch the stone.

I spoken to several .

people who were involved with both real integration and debriefing. They told me I was all planned down to the smallest detail, how to walk boat from the plane to the bus that were taken to hospital, how to speak to him that explaining exactly how the day was gonna food will come at ten. There's a strategic debriefing at one that okay. If it's not okay, we don't have to do IT you want your food at eleven? That's okay too.

They're trying to remove the helpless feeling by giving me complete control over everything, asking me everything even if they we're onna move a socks off the bed. Data IT was OK to move the shot off the .

bed and they asked him, are you comfortable sleeping in the bed? Oh, couldn't really talk IT. But he had to let them know he was not comfortable sleeping on the bed. His body was in pain, especially the spots that had been in contact with the floor for so long, but somehow he couldn't deal with the softest of the bed either, plus the hospital bed was out in the open, open on all sides in the room.

Somebody could be very easily get to me. So is this like this very, yeah uneasy feeling? So what I had to do was I had to move over by the bathroom, where there was like, a little hallway, yeah, and sleep on the like first night, I slept in the bathroom because they're the door, and I slept in the bathroom.

I shut the door. So I I could others also distance between the front, the door of the room and the bathroom. So I knew that there is that allowed me to hear for all steps coming.

Boden end up being a model soldier, but he'd been, by all accounts, a model P O W. And now a model returnee CoOperative. Eager to be helpful to the seer team, to the intel li briefers, he participated in debriefs for weeks.

His progress was being watched very, very closely by lot of people, but especially at the pentagon every day, all the questions, all the follow up questions, the intel people were asking them. They had to clear them all the way up to the joint chiefs and then all the way back down again. The team is updating all these marketing Marks from so calm, sent calm J P R A by video every day.

And the buckey Marks are asking, is boat telling the truth? Does he have stock home syndrome? Is he really trying to help us? All reasonable questions, but again, IT seemed as if the people dealing with bow in a daily way had such a different, such a softer view of him than the highest did at one point.

For instance, someone gave him a compass, but he always kept compass before. And one person told me that when the army chief of staff found out, he went, quote, fucking ballistic. I would give a deserter a compass.

They had to take IT away.

About a week a half after both came to germany, the same time that members of congress made IT clear publicly in that hearing with truck go that they're also watching this process very closely.

Wait, and why hasn't even returned to the united states world .

comes down at launch door. They gotto speed IT up. Move IT along to santa ono. The army wanted him back, wanted more command and control over their soldier is still unknown entity who was an ocean away. This was communicated rather forcefully to the reintegration experts in launch.

All we are like way a second.

That's Michael olivo s. He is a former air force seer psychologist. He was in charge of the psyche for party about reintegration.

IT really started feeling like IT wasn't about the reinagle tion person anymore. No, IT wasn't about his overall well being. IT was much more started becoming really political, administrative IT just felt like wrong, you know. And we would have liked to of of maybe had him stay a little bit longer. But they were other competing interest.

Someone else who is there in germany told me they started seeing these charts about, though, with categories from medical psycho intel in the charts, had colors red, yellow or Green, Green met, cleared. They're got the picture. They had to show progress.

They're supposed to set specific goals for them, such as is bergdoll able to deal with negative media attention every day at for a clock. They need to brief the commanders to report whether they were meeting their targets everyday. More and more Green boxes turned up on the charts.

Of course, part of bringing bow back to the modern world was letting him know gently that he become popular. Volvo s has been in contact with bow recently. They've talked about this.

He didn't know that he was on T. V. He did know that this was uh that he was the subject of um national interest. He didn't know that his parents had been on had met the president .

so weird to know not only like does the whole country know about you but then yeah like it's it's not aren't having parades yeah .

no he IT was IT was really hard. IT was really hard because there was so much of IT coming so fast and IT was all bad like telling somebody that and just, you know, how do you prepare somebody that's gone through something like he did and and then by the way, let him know, hey, do your home. You can relax now um but he seems to walk at that door. Get ready because there's a shit storm, you know and it's not going away anytime soon.

Back to that congressional hearing with chicago one last time, representative jim langevin, a democrat, he agreed that questions about sergeant bergdoll conduct should be addressed with due process at the appropriate time. But he asked he go, could you at least answer this one thing.

but could you settle one, uh, conflicting report that these in terms of regarding the number of the loss of soldiers who may be invoked in searches for sig burg down egle started .

by noting that any soldier who dies is a terrible loss to their family, into their country. Then he got down to business. He knew this was coming.

I've personally gone back and ask that question inside, depending on in the army, in all of our reports, I have seen no evidence that directly links any american combat death to the rescue or finding or search of sergeant burdon hao.

said IT once, then right away, he said, IT again.

I've asked the question. We've all asked the question. I have seen no evidence, no facts presented to me. When I asked that question.

hague had to known. That question was the consequential heart of both story. Did anyone die looking for him? And I have to think hague also knew that his answer would not settle this question, not by a long shot.

Soldiers were talking about IT. Commanders like my walls were talking about IT were testifying about IT that people did died looking for bird. That's part of what was so galling to them about the rose garden in the first place, why we're those families being recognized by the president?

I asked my walls about IT. Why is the army saying the opposite then of what you're saying? Why are they saying nobody .

died in the search? I'm not sure who did the investigation and not I haven't seen from you or any other journalist a real dig into how the army came to that conclusion. What did they look at um what was the basis of that statement? I don't know. I can only speak to my own experience.

Okay, then let's find a journalist, await. We are journalists. We put one of our staff with any danger field on this question.

How's there have been an official investigation into whether people died looking for bow? Is there record of people who got injuries looking for about SHE started with army public affairs, and they told her to ask force calm, U. S.

Army forces command. A guy there pointed her to the investigation by army major general Kenneth doll, the general doll. He didn't look into this question of whether people died, got hurt in the search. That wasn't his mission.

At hearing on both case, ince september was attorney, asked all about IT, and doll said he'd heard a lot of discussion about IT in his own interviews and just in the press allegations when we were another, but he didn't pursue IT, he said he was told, quote, no, you don't need to do that because central command is gna. Take care of that. Unquote, okay, interesting.

So witness our witney went to central command and sent com, wrote back to her quote, there is no official report or investigation that we are aware of, directed or conducted by U. S. And com.

I would direct you to the U. S. Army for any records they may have and quote, so army to force calm to send com, which sent her back to the army, also known a square one.

Unless we're missing something. The U. S. Military hasn't done an official investigation into whether any soldiers died because they were looking for bow. Here's the other thing general doll said about this question.

When he was on the stand back in september, he said, quote, I had asked the appointing authority, you know, should I investigate this? Because really this is something that at the end of the day, is going to have to be answered. I mean, if I was a parent, I would wanna know, everybody should wanna know.

We really want to close that out on. Yeah, I agree. Next time i'm cereal.

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on the next epo .

de of real. It's certain there is no double in my mind that you have soldiers died looking for bother.

though. And this gases, I want to let you know what fiction to back this story.

People are going to get hurt. People are going to get killed. And I just see the first truck just explode. But what was the mission?