OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
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Coming up, NBA Cup, NBA, and a lot of NFL next.

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for The Watch and for my podcast and for the rewatchable. So stay tuned. If you like listening to podcasts on Spotify, you'll be able to watch the videos as well as we keep going, heading to the end of 2024 into 2025. Coming up, we waited for these two NBA Cup games to end on Tuesday night because especially OKC Dallas had to see what was going on there, wanted to break it down. So

I reserved, almost like you could reserve an Uber black car or something, I reserved Dave Jacoby and Kirk Goldsberry to be on call after the NBA Cups, so they're gonna join me, and then,

Craig Horoback and Kyle Branton and I, Kyle and I did a rewatchables that we recorded for later this month. And then I made him stick around yesterday and me and Craig and Kyle just talked about NFL. And it went a whole bunch of directions. I had a great time. So this is a three man podcast all the way through with two different three man teams. It's all next. First, our friends from ProJet.

All right, we're taping this. It is almost nine o'clock Pacific time. Dave Jacoby stayed up late on the East Coast. Kurt Goldsberry, sloppy seconds for getting you today because you were doing some alt casting. Hopefully you have enough energy momentum back. Guys, I'm going to start here. OKC beats Dallas. Jacoby, is OKC like a borderline lock for you in the West or is there somebody else you're afraid of? Because the more I watch them, the more I just wonder who beats them in the West.

It's the defense. It's just, it's on a different level than every other team. I don't want to play against this team. You can just see the frustration on the body language of the Mavs. They can't throw basic passes without being harassed. Like, you remember that lively rebound he got and the cruiser just knocked it out of bounds? It's just annoying. They're just swarming wasps. And it's so frustrating because I was rooting for the Mavs because I wanted a close game. And it's just impossible to do anything against them. It's awful.

What do you think, Goldsberry? Yeah, they're the clear favorite now. And I know Dallas is going to sit here and say, oh, we didn't have P.J. Washington and we beat him last year and this. Fine, they should be confident. But from what I'm seeing, Bill, their net rating, their defensive rating, like Jacoby just said, and then the eye test.

Oh, my God. Yeah, Luka threw a lob. I think it was to Lively near the end of the game that he's thrown 100 times. And all of a sudden, there was two Thunder guys, and they were playing small, and they intercepted it. I think they had 12 steals, 31 points off turnovers. But more importantly, they just frustrate the hell out of everybody. And I feel like they're so far and away better than anything else I'm seeing in the West through the first quarter of the season that, yeah, I'm going to say they're the favorite to come out of the Western Conference.

FanDuel agrees with you, but the odds for the OKC Thunder in the West, I thought they'd be a minus, but they're plus 190 in the West. And they just seem too athletic and too fast for maybe any team except the Celtics.

Because I think at least the Celtics, it's the perimeter guys. Like you watch Dallas and Dallas was on a good run. They'd won 11 and 12. They really felt like they were starting to turn into something. And they just look slow tonight compared to OKC. You put Luca, you put Kyrie, you put Clay Thompson. Najee Marshall, who was really good in the first half. Those are good players. Those are guys, this is the top five team in the league. And OKC just seemed faster overall.

and younger and more athletic. And Luca, I don't know, what was going on with Luca Jacoby?

What was your take? One of the things that analysts always say about Luka is like, you can't speed him up. You can't speed him up. There's a part of me that's like, hey, Luka, can you speed up? It's like, oh, you can't speed him up. He's always at his own pace. It's like, cool, cool, cool. How about you move a little bit off the ball? There's a couple of sessions he was just in the corner. He's kind of getting that James Harden off-ball energy. They're like, oh, someone else has the ball, so I'm just going to stand here with my arms at my sides, straight up and down. It was a frustrating moment.

Luka Day. They were doubling him early, which I think was smart because they doubled him early and kind of got the ball out of his hands and didn't let him catch a rhythm until the second half for like a brief spurt. You know what, though? I still think they're the number two team in the West for me if I had to say who can actually make the finals. I still have Dallas second. I don't think this is a great matchup for them. And I was trying to think of like the rock, paper, scissors thing with the West. I don't know if you guys saw the OKC Houston game. Maybe it was 10 days ago.

Houston, I think, is the team in the West that can go toe-to-toe on this crazy, young, hungry pit bull, just speed, athleticism all over the place. I think that's the only way in the West. Nobody's gonna overpower them. There's not gonna be like a, obviously not the Lakers, but the LeBron AD type situation where it's just, oh my God, they just got bully balled. They got out-rebounded by 10 rebounds. I don't see that happening this year. I almost feel like you have to beat them

with what they do. Is there anybody else you see, Kirk? Houston, I think, you know, we'll see tomorrow if they can beat Golden State here in this quarterfinal. I don't see anybody else because Minnesota, I think, coming in to the season, Bill, was that other team for me. And they have just been off to an awkward start. So I don't see the Randall piece really fitting in there to put them in that category. And Dallas was the hottest team in the league, period, before tonight. And I think they...

clearly deserved number two status. They won the conference. They beat this team in the playoffs last year in six games. So I think until further notice, it's OKC, Dallas, then Houston. And then actually, I don't know who I'd put it for. So you'd have Houston third or just to beat OKC? Would you just have Houston third in general?

I love Houston at three and I want to see what they do in this tournament. I know some people think it's silly, but I think this is a catapult for them. If they beat Steph and Steve Kerr tomorrow and they get to Vegas and they play the Oklahoma City Thunder, I think it really starts to feel like they're not just a flash in the pan. Like OKC, Bill, their defensive indicators scream contender. They are not

Just like Orlando. Orlando, OKC, and Houston. Three young, pain-in-the-ass defenses that nobody wants to play against. And Ime has really built that team up. So I would put them at three. I don't know if there's somebody I'm forgetting. The other thing, well, you're forgetting Memphis. And we have to mention that because Jacoby does a podcast twice a week on the mismatch.

With somebody who's like, how the fuck can Kurt Goldsberry not mention Memphis for eight minutes there? What the fuck is he doing? That might be intentional. I might have heard that he fast forwards the minutes that I speak on this show. Is that true? He does the 15 second fast forward. Memphis right now is fifth offensive rating, seventh defensive rating. The per 36 stats are crazy for them too. Like Ja, who's,

really only playing like 28 minutes a game, but he would be 28 and 11 if he played 36. Brandon Clark looks great. So from a speed standpoint, maybe, but I'd kind of like to see those guys play for 20 games, Jacoby. And I'll tell you this, they're dining a lot off that Celtics game on Saturday where the Celtics had played five and seven. They'd played Milwaukee the night before in this like heated. My dad was saying it was like a, like a

third round playoff game kind of intensity. And then the next day, the Celts have to run it back and they had no legs, they were dead, and Memphis kind of steamrolled them. But I don't think they should take too much out of that, Jacobus. I don't think any of these teams would be a favorite in a series against the Thunder. And watching the Thunder tonight, watching them just

fly around and watching SGA be like a true go-to weapon on offense the way that some of the Rockets don't have, to be honest with you. And then every once in a while, they cut to this guy in a velour sweatsuit in the second row with a big beard who looked like he leveled up. Chet, obviously I'm talking about, it's like he's coming back.

Like, they have, like, a major weapon. He looks like a UFC fighter. Like, he's, like, this UFC middleweight hanging out outside the octagon waiting to see who he's going to fight in the next UFC card. But it's Chad Holmgren. He's 7'1". Yeah. I think that people sleep on the fact that they're doing all of this without him. And a lot of teams are missing players, but he's, like, I don't know, second or third best player. Probably the third best player. Yeah, we haven't seen their...

I mean, what we did get to see tonight, especially was the Hartenstein piece, the whole, the kind of rebounding center rim protection guy that they just haven't had. Like we were talking about some of the matchups with them. One of the things that's interesting with Houston is,

is Houston's first in the league in rebounding. They're almost averaging 50 rebounds a game. You know what? Sometimes I like the counting stats. I know the fancy kids, they love the advanced stats, and Kirk's got his efficiency map. I love all that stuff too, but sometimes I like to know who gets the most rebounds every game. And Houston's getting 50 a game. So to Jacoby's point, Kirk, like,

I do feel like they need Chet and Hartenstein in a Houston series. But the flip side with Houston is I still don't really know who their go-to guy is. I watch them game to game and it's like, because they're my favorite league pass team. And it's like, really? We're doing the Fred Van Vliet step back? That's our shot with 50 seconds left? I don't think they know. They'll go to Shangoon sometimes, depending on the matchup. But it's kind of like a last shot by a committee team, which makes me nervous in the playoffs.

Yeah, I think that's valid. And I think that we went too long not talking about what we saw from SGA tonight. And I think he really is the differentiator in the top of the West because he is legitimately the MVP candidate over there right now. When you look at those three teams we talked about, you throw in Memphis, maybe John Morant, but SGA is on a different plane than what we saw tonight from him on both sides of the court.

nearly scoring 40 points and then just putting up crooked numbers. Made some threes. Five for nine from three. Five for nine from three and then just sets the tone on defense too. Like he is a truly, truly impressive two-way superstar, Bill Simmons. And I think

No other team has that. And if it does get to sort of crunch time at the end, you know that the guy who has the ball in his hands can score in an isolation situation. By the way, he's isolating more than anybody else in the league. And Houston doesn't have that.

That is fair to say. And I think that is one of the things that separates the Oklahoma City Thunder from everybody else in the West right now is that their best player can be that guy at the end of a big game like we saw tonight. Houston does have Dylan Brooks doing Dylan Brooks stuff. I think SGA would be the best

guy in the West, if Jokic wasn't averaging a 56.1 a game, points, rebounds, and assists. He's in the 56 club right now. It's like him and Will Chamberlain. It's just the two of them. They're hanging out.

Who do you have in the MVP ladder right now? Just between those two. Yoak is just having the greatest statistical season of our adult lifetime. I agree, but does it matter to you that OKC is emerging as a clear number one and they're sort of dropping down to maybe play-in status? Does that factor into the Professor Simmons model?

Yeah, it's early, right? I mean, Denver hasn't won two straight games for a month. I don't know what's going on with Jamal Murray. Jokic, I promise you, isn't like, oh, cool, I scored 104 points this weekend. That's not what he's about. But I don't know if he has a choice. I want to see if it's 47, 48 wins is kind of the cutoff for me. But if you're a six seed or a seven seed, I think it gets tough if there's some...

some real candidates. I think Tatum's a candidate. SGA is absolutely a candidate. Chicoves, I think that thing that would really clinch it for SGA having an argument, maybe even becoming a favorite as if OKC just becomes like a 65 win team, which I think is in play as hard as the West is. It seems like an accident when they lose. I'm always surprised when they lose, right?

I think 65 might be a little high, but I think they're going to run away with the number one seed in the Western Conference, which is obviously the stronger conference. They're 19-5 right now for the record.

I try to stay away from the MVP stuff. You know what I mean? On December. In game 24? Yeah. Yeah. But what Jokic has done has been very impressive. And what he did this weekend, as you mentioned, I'm sure he's like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to take 39 shots in a basketball game.

You were like that, Jacobs. When you were taking a lot of shots, you were never happy. I know. I know. You wanted to do no looks and you wanted to do good entry passes and just play team basketball. That's like Jokic. Exactly. Exactly. Hey, what did he do this weekend? Lose to the Wizards? Is that what caught your eye? Lost to the Wizards. Lost to the Wizards and beat the Hawks. Yeah. He scored 104 points. That's true. Killed the Hawks. It is crazy. It is crazy how little he has around him. The...

What really jumped out at me about those two games was the Westbrook-Jokic connection.

Westbrook was just feeding him Westbrook was like the best player on the planet is on my team let me just get him in a position to score it was really impressive I was impressed by Westbrook this weekend yeah cause Murray is kind of like Jokic's basketball wife and with Westbrook now he's kind of flirting with the office assistant who just kind of moved into the office and it's like whoa Jokic Jokic just went to get coffee with Westbrook does Murray know about this?

That's our second game. The SGA thing, I always say this every year. It's just crazy to me after going to some of those games when he was a rookie that this is the guy he is now. That he's in a game with Luka where he just completely obliterates Luka and Luka's team. They have no answer for him. If I'm Dallas Kirk, who's my guy that's going to be guarding SGA if I'm seeing them in round two or round three?

Who's my stopper for SGA? You know, I think P.J. Washington is a huge part of that equation. And I don't know if that's the correct answer, but it's not going to be Kyrie and it's not going to be Luka. I think we all know that. And then they have the big. And, you know, I think P.J. would be my answer. But, dude, who can guard this guy? Nobody can guard this guy. So Dallas...

I think beat them last year on both sides of the ball. And I think that it was really PJ who, if you look back at the stats from that series, did a lot on both sides. He made a lot of threes. Yeah. So I think...

I'm hard. I can't talk myself into what I saw from Dallas beating Oklahoma City, but I have very, very, very big recency bias right now because of what we just watched. I think if I zoomed back out seven game series, yeah, if PJ is going to be 20 and 10, like kind of like he was, I think it was 18 and eight in that series and shooting threes and playing great defense and they have their bigs and Luca and Kyrie, obviously at the end of games, they could, they could win four games against that team if they broke their way.

Last year, they were too small, and they almost won the series anyway, OKC. And it came down to that play in the corner when SGA, the foul, when he played perfect defense, and they lucked out with that one. But they also didn't have Hartenstein last year, and Chet got overpowered in that series. Or Caruso. And Caruso was great tonight. It was great tonight. A different team, and yet they almost beat them last year. So I'm feeling great if I'm OKC. The other thing...

And who knows? Like Shams wrote this piece today about, you know, could Jimmy Butler get traded? Zach Levine. I know Jacoby has some thoughts on it. I'm like OKC to me is the perfect type of team that could make trades because they have all these movable contracts, cheap contracts. They can add stuff together. They're not getting crushed by the apron. They have a million picks they could trade.

I'm so confused by the trade rules. And I've read everything. And as you guys know, I'm the trade machine Picasso. Like, I take this seriously. I am just absolutely flummoxed by these rules. And even that thing today I read where it's like, yeah, Jimmy Butler. It's like, I'm not sure anybody can add Jimmy Butler. From what I understand about these rules, it feels like they made him too hard, Jacoby. And I'm going to be useless at the trade deadline. I don't like it.

Exactly being a Jimmy Butler, I don't think would be true. And I think to bring Jimmy Butler, you have to match the salary. So you're giving up whatever, $40 million worth of players to bring in Jimmy Butler who wants a new contract and has a $52 million player option that he might exercise. It just seems like who is Jimmy Butler away from contending? And if you're the Thunder,

You're going to add a player later. Chet Holmgren, your third best player and your second big. If you were the Thunder, why would you ever even think about picking up a phone call from Miami? I would not. Well, you're not doing that. Golden State's the team. I think it would be Golden State. Are they Jimmy Butler away from contending? Well, I think Shams put in the Texas team's

San Antonio would be super interesting for that, but I think they would have to resign them. And I don't know if that's on their timetable, but Golden State, I think has real urgency with, you know, I'm not just a body language guy, but I'm also the trade detective. And I did notice this weekend, all of a sudden they're pushing Kaminga.

They're there. Put them in the starting lineup. Draymond Green's like, you can have my spot. When has Draymond Green ever been this magnanimous? Just, there was a lot of red flags where I was like, hi, what are you guys doing? Are you almost feels like you're trying to showcase coming up for somebody that I'll take my spot. Draymond Green, the guy who punched Jordan pool. Now he's Mr. Magnanimous. Take my spot. Um,

I don't know, something that feels like the team because they're on a specific window with Curry, right? If you feel like you can contend for a title with Curry at age 36, he's already wearing down over the first five, six weeks. Butler makes sense for them. Kirk, you're nodding.

Yeah, I think they've been sort of showcasing players all year. I think it helps explain why Steve Kerr has been playing 12 players a night. Oh, look at all these guys. Like you could read into it. And I think they're one player short of being. So you're saying they're like the farmer's market?

Come on over. We got pistachios. We got Kyle Anderson. There's some chicken. Got chicken over here. Free sample. It's a full chicken. Some fruit. Farm-raised Kyle Anderson over here. But I think...

But Jimmy Butler to Houston intrigues me, too, because of something you said earlier, Bill, which is like, who's their guy at the end of the game? We don't have that guy. And Jimmy's from Texas. You could see E-May talking himself into Jimmy Butler. I'm not sold on it. The other thing that I would say is the trade machine Picasso is coming into hard times. This new CBA has pretty much cut the number of teams that could make a trade.

into half, if not more, because so many teams are limited into what kinds of trades, the financial rules, what they can and can't send out or take back are so punitive or prohibitive that just the trade market itself has shrunk. And I think that's going to sort of

limit the amount of Picasso-ing you can do between December 15th and February. - I think it's beyond limiting. I think it's gonna really, really harm it. So selfishly, I'm mad because I love making up fake trades and they're just gonna be super unrealistic, but Jacob's, there's this flip side to it where I kinda like it, where guys who are in situations they might not love, to me, it's like if we're driving, say, Jacobi, you have your three kids in the car,

And you're like, we're driving all the way to Washington, D.C., and we're not stopping. But your kids are like, Dad, can we stop? Can we get something? Can we stop? Stop. And they just wear you down and you eventually stop.

This, all these apron rules are basically like the kids are trapped in the car for the entire ride now. Like if you're Brandon Ingram, it's like, I want to get off. Can we stop it? You're like, can't, sorry. Can't trade. We're not stopping until we get to uncle house's house. But everyone's trapped in the car and you kind of have to make the best of it. And this is what the NBA used to be like. You're like, Hey, you're stuck on your team.

It was also like the Jimmy Butler thing from Shams earlier this morning was like, oh, here are the teams that he wants to go to. I mean, it's like, cool. Right. It's kind of like the NFL. They're like, go find yourself a trade. Go ahead. Find one. Just because you want to go to those teams doesn't mean there's a deal between us and those teams. And to put that out publicly, it almost feels like they don't really understand the implications of the new CBA. It's not happening.

That's a great point, dude. The whole trade demand ecosystem, the whole science of the trade demand from the player's perspective has to get updated too because you can't just say, oh, I want to trade and make sure it's the Phoenix or whatever. But look at Zach Levine's situation. He's playing well for Zach Levine. He's 22-5-5. I've watched a couple games where in the fourth quarter, he's as good as he's ever looked.

And he could have checked out or been like, well, I'm going to nurse an injury until you guys trade me. But he's not going to get traded. So he might as well make the best of it. It's a little reminds me of what happened in football. Or in football, there's like never trades, right? Nobody's like, we traded our left tackle today for somebody starting outside linebacker. It's just everybody's kind of stuck on their team until the end of the year. And maybe that's what basketball is becoming, which is bad for podcast content, but it may be better for basketball, right?

I think so. And I think there's one more layer of it, which is like the moneyball era of pro basketball is so intense. Like we know so much about how bad, bad contracts are, particularly in this new CBA, that those were the contracts the teams used to be able, hey, take this guy. Maybe you can deal with the contract for a year or two and win a title.

No, like I was trying to think of who the best team with a terrible contract is, and there aren't many. And so it's like, okay, do you want this Levine deal or this Beal deal? The answer to that question is smaller than ever, not to mention the point we already made. The rules to get that player in a trade are more sort of strict than ever. So yeah, I think we're in a brand new era and it is bad for podcast content. It might be Jamal Murray.

Like his extension hasn't even kicked in yet. Well, if he's going to look like he's looked, I mean, there's some other ones like Nurkic. I'm sure Phoenix would be dying to trade him in five seconds. Right. But yeah, if you look at the best three teams, the Celtics, OKC and Cleveland, none of them really have like the, oh man, I wish we didn't have this contract guy. All the contracts are pretty good. But I also feel like it seems like people knew this era was coming.

and the smarter teams were very careful. Even that OKC deal for Hartenstein, they overpaid him for three years based on what his market was, but it's actually a smart deal. That's how they got him and it's not gonna kill them down the road unlike how Juan Soto's gonna kill the Yankees in the last five years of his deal when he's just destroying them for 60 million a year. - That's brutal. - Or the Mets, I meant the Mets.

Let's take a break. I have some NBA Cup questions for you, big picture, whether we actually like this or not. That's next. The NBA season is flying and FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook, wants to catch all the action. Right now, FanDuel giving everyone three months of NBA League Pass. All you have to do to catch every tip-off from Buzzer Beater is place any $5 bet on the NBA. You can trail me on Fridays. I've been pretty hot with these 30-on-30s we're doing on Fridays with NBA 30-point scores.

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NBA Cup, does this work? Jacobs, it's year two. Here's my case for maybe it doesn't work. I didn't want the Celtics to make the quarterfinals or semifinals and have to play the two extra games. I wanted the rest for them. So that tells me fundamentally, maybe this doesn't 100% work, that I wanted my team not to make it.

Okay, that's a fair point, and I totally understand that thinking. I think the cup works, but I'll address your question, and I'll say this. How upset are the Mavs right now, after being on the road for like a month, having everyone be sick, and they're like, oh, we don't have to go to Vegas, and we get, what, seven days off in the middle of the year to sort of get healthy? I think the Mavs are on the plane being like, yeah, it kind of sucks. I wish we won, but...

I don't know. Like, I don't think they're like really bummed tonight. Yeah, Luka was like 100,000 we didn't get. Yeah, but it's four teams. To me, it's four teams like the Hawks, the

the Rockets, and the Thunder. Like, I think that it's really for up-and-coming teams to get sort of like one-and-you're-done experience. So I don't think it's broken, but I think there are certain teams like the Celtics coming off a championship, like what, we get to win the Emirates Cup? Like, no, I'm good. I'll take the time off. What do you think, Kirk?

I think it's working, but I think those are valid points. In fact, I talked to one Western Conference executive who's like, oh, I'm kind of glad we don't have to go play at Oklahoma City tonight and maybe play Houston and Vegas. And I think I'd much rather have the time off or these lesser opponents. I think the league...

I also think it's really cool that we had these two games tonight and the whole league was watching them. And I wish we had more of that, that sort of community feel where it's not just like league pass overload, where these games are meaningful in December. Like, let's not forget, like this time of year is really hard. I do think, and I think we talked about this last time, they should use the divisions for the groups and just bring some spice and meaning back to those teams.

groupings of teams. I think there's some little stuff. I'm glad we have it. But I think it is fair to say that some teams are kind of not disappointed they're not going to Vegas this weekend. I know Embiid's disappointed. He wanted to get those two extra games in. I like the NBA Cup, but I think that's the criticism. I was thinking, should there be a couple other things that you win if you win?

beyond just the money. What if you could get un-aproned for the rest of the season? I don't know why the players would care about that, but the fans, I think, would be...

Like the Phoenix Suns all of a sudden be like, wait, we're out of the lock separate apron for three months. It's like a get out of jail free card for the apron. What if you guaranteed the six playoff spot? That's what I think they should do. You can't fall lower than six. If you win. You got to move it later in the season then because like if you're locked into six, like what are we doing?

Well, you could think about the season a little differently. It's an advantage, right? You know you don't have to be in the playing game. You know you're going no lower than six. You can rest guys a little differently. It's a real advantage for the season, I think would be the appeal. But then if you're a team like Atlanta or even Houston, who's probably going to be a top six team anyway, but I think that would be...

Or Orlando, who's losing their entire team to torn obliques. You kind of want the sixth seed. I like that. The other one, that's really it. You could do a draft pick thing, but I don't know why the players on the team would care. It's like, oh, we've locked down the 15th pick.

No, it would be like an insignificant draft pick thing. You get like an extra second rounder or something. It's like, okay, great. With Jacobes, we both have the reality background. You once upon a time were the czar of reality TV. Is there a reality thing we could steal for this? Like you win and you get to use that power to fuck over another team in some way?

Like you could say, I'm using by you get your cross and it's like the Celtics now lose a game seven at home and you just like stick them with some sort of terrible competitive disadvantage. Like a rule changes like TJ would just come out at halftime and be like, all right, guys, here are the four point shots. Right. Three circles. Yeah. No corner threes.

I think they should use it as a testing ground for like rule changes. Like, I think that'd be kind of fun if they were just like no three point line and not a four point line or there's no corner threes. I think, I think that'd be fun. And I understand like there are reasons you couldn't do that, but just while we're spitballing, I think sort of experimenting about rule changes or court changes you've been considering in these games because they are different. It could be a playground for that.

Yeah, like the Elam ending. Wait, one more thing on that. The Elam ending would be great. And I know they got rid of it from the All-Star Game, Bill. But like tonight, the end of that first game was like 25 minutes, the last two or three minutes. And it bled into the second game. It's like, what are we doing doing this free throw, free throw thing? Like just let somebody win. So say the NBA Cup quarterfinals, semis and finals are all Elam ending. We just hit a certain score and the game's over? Yeah.

I mean, every pickup game we've ever played ends with a bucket, dude. And then we watch these free throw contests. The worst one I saw this year was Celtics-Cavs, and it was like 30 minutes. And it was back and forth, back and forth. And now, because I always say this, the team that's ahead is now fouling a lot of times. So it's just adding to it. Yeah, so I'm a big Elam ending guy, but I like Jacoby's idea. Make it feel special. Do something else. Elam ending is the best I got for that one.

Jacoby, would SGA be fun to play with? Absolutely. Be fun to play pickup with? Okay. He leads the league in unassisted baskets. So it's kind of one of those situations where you don't feel needed.

I know, but here's the thing. But if you're like in a pickup game and you're down six, you want SGA on your team so you stay on the court. You know what I mean? It's like you always associate guys you want to play pickup with with guys that move the ball and get teammates involved and sort of like put people in spots. No, I want to stay on the court. Yeah, but you have SGA just to stay on the court. Like that's why he's good to play pickup. Yeah, we had, when we played, we had that one guy who was the stay on the court guy.

where we knew we would basically just have to rebound and play defense, and he was going to score nine of the 11 points. I can't remember what his name was. Jalen Rose. I think it was Jalen Rose. Jalen was unfair. He was unfair to play it. Let's talk about the other game and whether we believe in Milwaukee Bucks yet. I thought they played really well against the Celtics on Friday in a game that was about as intense as you get in December.

There's no love lost between those two teams, Kirk Goldsberry. There's some Giannis Jalen stuff. There's some Giannis Al Horford stuff, I felt like. Tatum has a little bird in his saddle against them. I don't feel like anybody really likes playing against Dame that much. I always feel like people get annoyed by him. But that was a really intense game on Friday. But the Celts won. But what struck me was I thought the Bucs hung with them and could have won the game. And...

Now that Green and Prince have been getting them three-point shooting, now that Portis, who looked like he was going to be out of the league first month of the season, now he's back. Now they have Middleton back. Giannis is averaging a 32, 12, and 6. I still don't feel like they're at that top echelon and maybe not even in the second echelon, but they're at least lingering.

because of Giannis now, right? I don't think they're lurking, but I would go lingering for them. Is that fair? I think they're 11-3 in their last 14 games after starting 2-8. And what you just said, one of the sort of deep cut takes is like, yeah, AJ Green, Gary Trent, Torian Prince, Bobby Portis. They're getting really efficient three-point shooting from those dudes. And then Giannis stopped shooting threes.

He stopped shooting threes. Today, he shot his first three in six games, I think. He shot another one at the end of the game, but he'd gone five games without shooting a three. He's attacking the rim, and then they're surrounding him with shooting. Tonight, they played a smaller lineup. They took Brooke out, and they put these aforementioned shooters. Chris Middleton's back in the lineups. Damian, obviously.

spacing starts at the rim. Yannis pressures the rim better than anybody in the league right now. And he can make passes. If they can make those shots, they're very good. The Bucks were always supposed to be this good. The other thing weird was they were two and eight. Do I trust them to be better than the Boston Celtics? No, but it looks like they've righted the ship and look like they're a viable Eastern conference contender now. Yeah.

because Giannis is putting up scoring title numbers and they're getting this three-point shooting from the supporting cast. And now they're whole. So they have Chris, Damian, and Giannis. They were supposed to be good. I'm a little worried about the Lopez piece of it. He looked really old in the Celtic game and I thought he was the biggest reason they lost. And it feels like there's a Giannis, Portis, shooters, and Dame. And whether Middleton's in that or not, we'll find out. But that seems to be...

Probably their most successful lineup, which is weird because Lopez was so essential to what they did. I don't know, Jacobs. I still don't feel like the Giannis-Dame thing is perfect, and maybe it will never be, but it almost feels like Dame, it's like, hey, Giannis isn't going to play tonight, Dame. You're going to have to take a lot of shots. I don't feel like he's shedding tears. You know what I mean? I don't feel like they've totally figured it out yet, but they're kind of scotch taping it and duct taping it together now.

Body language doctor doesn't love that duo as much as I wanted to when he signed. But we always, like, I think people are critical of Dame. It's like he scores 25.7 points a game and gets 7.5 assists a game. Like... He's like 37% from three now. Is that so bad? Yeah. Like, is that so bad? Like, is that... What are we being critical of, really? And, you know, Derry Bird... Torian Prince is shooting 54% from three on, like...

3.6 attempts or something like it's not it's not fake like they're they're surrounding two of the biggest offensive weapons in the league with shooting defensively we can just pass over that they're not stopping anybody yeah for that when they wanted all they were great on defense to Tatum against the Bucks he's like this is awesome

Sorry, Kirk, I interrupted you. No, I was just saying when they were great, when they won it all, they were great on defense. Like this was a defensive juggernaut too with Brooke and Giannis protecting the paint. And then, you know, Drew and Chris and the role players all seeming like, you know, these younger Thunder Rockets teams that we're seeing the more like, yeah, they were a great defense. I don't see that happening. And for that reason, I'm out to quote Mark Cuban on their ability to compete with

with Boston, and maybe even Cleveland at the very top of the Eastern Conference. Are you a believer? Ime said this like three weeks ago about, he's like, if you look at all the teams that have won a title or made the finals, they're all like top five defense. Yeah, it's like something crazy. I think he's right. I actually think it's that simple. Yeah. And like even tonight, Suggs had Dame in front of him

And he dribbled between his legs like four times, then just like shot a three. And it was like, Suggs, that's Dame Lillard. Just put your shoulder down and go past him. And a key point, I was really disappointed in that particular possession because I think there's a reason that when Dame is guarding somebody that there's no screener. There's a reason.

Right. Well, and then when Dame wasn't on him, he was getting the switch button. They were asking a lot from Suggs in that game. In fact, this is a good time to bring in Steve Cerruti for two seconds because we have a very important Orlando Magic question. So at halftime, were you on Expedia or wherever looking for Hartford to Vegas tickets? Were you thinking about it? You were, weren't you? I definitely was. And

It was like... I saw Gladiator 2 on Friday. And I had really low expectations for it. And I really enjoyed it. I liked the movie. I don't know if it needed to be made. It was kind of the same as the first one, just with a new thing. I had really low expectations. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know if we'd hit 90 points. Because I'm just... I don't know where the scoring comes from. And then, yeah, that first quarter happens. And I'm like, I'm in. This team, they're going to win the game. And like...

You get the halftime. I think they're down one at halftime, but anything's on the table. It just sucked because that Suggs injury in the third quarter, they were down one at the time. He goes out for a couple minutes, and I think he comes back in. They're down eight, and they have to climb back the rest of the game to get there. But without that, at the end of the day, when they're fully healthy, I think they're capable of beating anybody. They're capable of beating anybody. I'm not saying they'd be favored against any of these teams, but they are capable of beating anybody.

My friend, Sean Grandy, who is the radio guy for the Celtics, who's I think a good basketball kind of thinker with this stuff. Orlando is the team he's afraid of for the Celtics when they get everybody back because he thinks they're defensive upside. And they didn't have Isaac tonight either. He thinks their defensive ceiling is the high. Some people would say it's Tibbs and Nix, but I just think it's going to be too easy to get

point the knicks are in a weird position where it's their offense is probably going to be more dangerous than their defense in the playoffs but i think orlando uh so the case for them would be the defense giving franz all those reps without palo and now sugs turning into like russell westbrook 2017 light like just doing everything on the on the magic jacoby are you buying sug stock yet

I bought a lot of Suggs stock preseason because of defense. I didn't see this Suggs, but it is. This is Gonzaga Suggs. It just seems like Paolo's playing so well. And then Franz steps up and plays so well. And then Franz is out. Now Suggs steps up and plays. If Suggs has a legit hurt hand, it's going to be like Mo Wagner scores 30 and 12 and 10. It's like, what is happening? It just seems like someone on that team is going to play like an all-star no matter what happens.

Anthony Black is next if Suggs goes down. Yeah, I was nervous. You got to get some K-tape or whatever. Get his obliques taped up so he can't get... There's some oblique epidemic breaking out in Orlando. But yeah, when his thumb got hurt, I was like, you got to be kidding me. Because that's the thing about the NBA Cup. It's like, cool, this is fun and all. But if we're really going to lose Suggs for an extended period of time, pass on the NBA Cup. Well, the other piece with the Orlando that's been interesting with these guys going out is... I don't know. They took the...

They took the training wheels off Anthony Black a little bit. Yep. He got, what's the hairdo he's rocking these days? He moved some hair stuff around. Yeah. And he's got, there's like a little bun in the back. Totally different player. Totally different player. I was shocked. He's like a new guy. Like, I didn't know who it was. Who's that? Oh, Anthony Black.

But there's a lot of stuff to like with him. And I don't really know what his ceiling is. And I'm sure when we get to like game four of a playoff series and he's in the corner, teams are going to be like, go ahead, take that. But the fact that he's not a bust feels like a win. So really. So,

It was kind of an uncharacteristic game from him. He was weirdly bad defensively tonight. He got lost like a couple of times, but he actually scored way more than you think he was, had assist rebounds. And a lot of that was just like, you know, because they just need an extra ball handler. I would say too, like I'm not nervous, like the panic meter is not going off, but like $22 million a year, like KCP seven points.

Kind of hoping for more than that in a situation where you kind of need a veteran to step up. Honestly, all these young guys, even Tristan Silva, he started tonight, started a lot of games since Franz and Paulo have been out, and he's been fine. And I really like the two big lineup. Wendell playing the four,

kind of like it's it's it can't really work whenever when they're fully healthy but in this version of the team without Isaac he's actually really good at getting those spots like kind of top of the key throwing those lob passes like being a facilitator I think he had the best plus plus minus on the magic tonight he was awesome Kirk what do you see from the magic

Yes, Rudy should be thrilled, man. I was talking to Vince Carter and Jalen. We were watching this game and we're like, holy crap, like these guys are going to be a problem. And I'm with Sean Grandy. I don't think anybody wants to play this team in the playoffs. I'm not saying they would beat the Celtics, but they're a pain in the ass to score on. And like Oklahoma City, they're a pain in the ass to pass on and get rebounds on. I love the two big lineup.

I love that it's Moe and Goga and Wendell. They're playing bigger than almost any. Da Silva, too, when he's at the three. They're just big. And yeah, the biggest point here is they didn't have three or four of their normal rotation pieces. Gary Harris, Jonathan Isaac, but obviously... Gary Harris.

Phil's favorite guy. Paolo and Franz, who, you know, Torn Oblique Club, like, stand up. And as a holder of Suggs coin for years now,

You guys should be thrilled. I know you didn't get the result tonight, but it looks like you're built for war for a long time and you're the Orlando magic. You guys should be thrilled. And two games you didn't have to play. It's not like the NBA Cup was going to do anything for you. It's two more games where nobody's getting hurt. Cody's got time out. Hold on. This is just too much like...

too much for me. They don't have a player that can hit a three-point shot in 2024. They don't have one. So can we just address that? They don't have a player that can hit a three-point shot. It's tough. They're 30th in three-point shooting, 31%. They're 28th in corner threes.

Is that so scared to play? I'm so scared to play him in the playoffs. Like, okay, the worst shooting team in the league. But Paolo Suggs and Franz are all fine. Why'd you have to do that to Cerruti? He's got like, he's the best two guys that have torn a bleach. I'm sorry. No one wants to see this team in the playoffs. He said their defense is hard.

But I think those corner threes come from good movement elsewhere. Corner threes are created when their best offensive players are doing other shit somewhere else on the court. Those guys aren't playing, particularly their best offensive player. And now Franz isn't playing, who's also great at offense. So those are like indicator species. Yes, their three-point shooting personnel, Jacoby, does lack. KCP is underwhelming. But some of these are sort of byproducts of the offense itself just not having

It's alpha and beta creators. - Oh, I like how you used the alpha and beta. So Rudy, did you know where your oblique was five weeks ago? - No idea, I thought it was a leg injury. - Thought it was a part of your hip? Where did you think it was on your body?

I thought it was like an inner quad thing. I don't know. Do you know where it was? Yeah, because they're called love handles. That's all you have to do is for us, for athletes, they're called obliques. For us, they're called love handles. That's what they are. They're your love handles. Right above your rib? Your love handles are your obliques. It's a love handle injury that is sweeping through the magic locker room. Love handles. I wonder if they even knew how to diagnose this in like the 80s.

Like Bob McAdoo had a torn oblique for an entire year and had no idea. Because he's like, oh, my side hurts. They're like, Bob, take some aspirin. Slept on it. Yeah. But how did two guys, I know everyone's asking this, but it is fucking weird. How did two guys get the same injury? It's like a haunted house. I don't understand it. I guess Fran said he doesn't even know what he did it. I heard that. They were showing him different plays and he couldn't even know what the play was. So maybe he doesn't even know where his oblique is either. He's like, what's hurt?

Really weird. Rank your three teams you're afraid of in the East. Boston, obviously, one. Who's two? Cleveland. And I guess I'm buying the Milwaukee. The Milwaukee. Oh, please.

Die easy Knicks fan, Dave Jacoby is upset. No. Number one offense in the league. You just kicked our ass the other night and scared the crap out of me because if we had lost that game by 37, we would have been out of the NBA Cup and that would have been one of the most embarrassing losses of my life. It was very much on the table in the third quarter. And against Tibbs, that's the one guy you don't want to be against. But I don't know. I'm still... I mean, the Cap Brunson thing is incredible offensively right now, but they're not the same team defensively. And I just... I'm a little...

I'm a little worried about the playoff thing with the playoff cat defensively. How's that going to look? What's the Mitchell Robinson minutes? Like, I don't know. I'm just like, I'm with Bill to the bridges thing. Listen, we're picking hairs. They're, they're a good, they're a good team, obviously, but I, I don't know. There's something about this next team. I'm not ready to fully go all in on.

Kirk, were you seeing 25 and 13 with 46% three-point shooting from Towns this year? Was that in your bingo card? Dude, yeah. He is incredible. I didn't know that Tom Thibodeau was an offensive genius until this year. I think that they're... Just found that out, yeah. Yeah, I just learned that. 25 and 13, though, I think I would have put him around there. The 45, 46% number from three-point is crazy, dude. I thought it was going to go the other way. I thought it was going to be like, oh, they...

They got to figure out how to get in the ball more because there haven't been enough. Instead, it's like this him and Brunson as a combo have been crazy. And then it seems like the Knicks fans really like them too. That's the other thing that I think was up in the air.

They're going to get Precious and they're going to get Mitch Robinson back. And I don't think we've seen what their defense really could be. But I'm with Cerruti. I definitely go Celtics, Cavs, Knicks. Then I go Bucs. But I do think the Knicks offense deserves respect. They can score against anybody in a

in a variety of ways. It's just like their shooting is great and then Brunson and Cat. I do love the geometry to borrow Jalen's basketball geometry phrase. I love what the Knicks have spacing the court right now. Yeah, I think I'd give Sledge to the Bucs because of just how crazy Giannis is this year. Yeah. It just seems like anytime he wants to go downhill, he turns. So my daughter went to the game on Friday because my dad got a COVID shot and

First of all, why did he get a COVID shot? What? Second. What? He's like, I don't know. Did he get injected with COVID? Is that his COVID shot now? I was like, nobody. Dad, it's 2024. What are you doing? So he got a COVID shot. And then go figure, him and my stepmom both felt like crap the next day. So my daughter got to go with her boyfriend. And she hadn't seen Giannis in person. So she called me after. And she was like, Dad.

Is he like the best player of all time? Like, where does he... What's going on with that? It just seems like every time he wants, he could just bulldoze over everybody and get a layup or a dunk. And I'm like, yeah. It's kind of... No, it's this fat guy from Serbia, actually. Yeah, that was it. He's this fat guy. This fat guy is going to have 104 points this weekend in two games. But I think we've been watching the honest thing for so long, we forget just fundamentally how insane it is that he could just...

basically get to wherever he wants, no matter what the defense is. Middleton is the thing with them. To me, it's a 3A, 3B thing. And I want to know where we are with Middleton in March. And then Orlando's kind of lurking as the who knows team. Miami, it's interesting. And I don't think they have any chance to move up into this ladder, but they do seem like they've figured out something over the last two weeks with their team. Like Kiro carries the offense for three quarters.

Butler kind of takes over late. Bam's having a really weird season. All his field goal stuff and stuff around the rim is terrible. It's really uncharacteristic. But for some reason, I could see them maybe upsetting somebody in one round, but not more than that. And that's really it. I don't even know who else we would have in the East. Sruti, you seem serenely confident, just focused on March and April.

It just sucked. The Franz injury sucks because it takes away the potential all-star, the potential most improved. All that stuff is kind of not there anymore. Well, it took away the supermax, though, which is good for you. I guess that's going to be true. That could have been a salary cap nightmare to have two supermax guys. Speaking of contracts, I need to say this. To the people who this summer were criticizing the Jalen Suggs deal, what was it, five years, $150 million for a guy that scores 12 points a game. Who criticized that? Yeah, who's that? People did.

A lot of people. Yes, yes. A lot of a lot of a lot of our friends border. Maybe some Raptors fans were still a little upset about how that how that draft. By the way, the 2021 draft is my favorite draft in recent history. It's incredible. I go down the list of just every like week. I feel like you change the order of what guys you want. Yeah, obviously, Fran Suggs. What do we got? Cade Mobley, Shankoon, Jalen Green, Barnes, Jalen Johnson was in that draft. Yeah, unbelievable draft.

Pay sucks. The man's worth the money. He's one of the best winners in the league. He does things that other guys, like he is, he is the ultimate winning player and whatever you need him to do. And you saw it tonight. Like he doesn't, he doesn't need to be a 30 point a game score, but he was tonight. I think he's a third guy on a championship team and maybe even potentially has the, the ceiling of being a second guy. If he was with somebody incredible.

Right. Like being like the Jamal Murray drew holiday spot. If you get to play next to a Janice or Yoko. All right. Thanks for stopping in. So Rudy. Thanks guys. Appreciate you. Congrats on your, on your heroic effort tonight. Yeah. Hopefully we see in, in, in April, May, before we go, Jacoby, you want to talk about Embiid? I do. What do you got? What the fuck is going on? What is going on? Like I, my questions for you, Bill are what is the plan for,

Do his teammates like him? And all I hear about is like how little he communicates with the team about his availability, how he's late all the time. Like Verno knew some guy who said he missed the team buses like the day after the report came out that he was late. It's just all like,

He's become, in the last three years, he's turned from one of the most likable stars in the league to someone who I'd like less and less and less every three months. And we're there right now. So here's where I've landed, Goldsberry.

I, to me, remember we said that joke about Twitter, like you, when Twitter was really like a place, a lot of people went to that. You just wish you could have certain stories and just not even see them, but you could meet the story. If the story was happening, you just wouldn't even know about it. That's how I feel about it. And bead by play tonight and beads not going to play tonight and beads going to rest tonight and bead has some swelling again and beads feeling better. I just,

I'm just out. I'm tapping out. I can't do it. The chronic swelling was the most disturbing part of that story I thought this weekend. It's not even like he re-injured or anything. It was like, yeah, it's maintenance because he has chronic swelling. What does chronic swelling mean?

None of it sounds good. Goldsberry, you were at San Antonio when this was going on with Kawhi. It was a little different. There was more mystery and Kawhi was younger. He wasn't seven foot three carrying a bunch of weight, but this just has a stranglehold over your franchise after a certain point, right? Yeah, that's a perfect word. It really is just like a black cloud or a stranglehold. I'd actually compare it to Tim. A lot of people forget that Tim Duncan had a really bad knee his entire career. Yeah. And

the scourge that is known as load management has a lot to do with Tim Duncan's knee and Greg Popovich and the staff really making sure that they could get everything. But that also meant that Tim had to be very serious about his nutrition and his sleep and all this other stuff. And I think as Joel and

enters sort of the later stage of his career, if he wants to keep playing at this level, he has to be more serious, more professional, not just about being on time to the bus, but taking care of his body. Like the reason LeBron is LeBron at this age is because he was really careful about his body and respected that stuff. And unfortunately, this is what it looks like

when somebody doesn't do that kind of thing, in my opinion. And I'm not quite sure where this is going. I do think Philadelphia has reasons to be more optimistic than the last time we talked about these guys on the podcast. I still think the East, what we just went through, is like, oh, maybe Miami's the five seed.

Unfortunately, there needs to be eight playoff teams in the Eastern Conference. And I think Philadelphia will get one of those slots. And so I think they could be pretty patient here. I just agree with what you guys are saying. This is really troubling, like the lack of communication, the lack of clarity, the weird Timmy Bontemps quotes from this week.

It's depressing. I don't even know it's injured. It's just inflammation. These are bad signs, guys. Yeah, this happened to the Celtics in 09 with KG. I don't know if you remember. KG got hurt. They were like 31 and five. They had some crazy record. And it was like, KG's coming back. And then it was just, is he coming back? And then it was like, team not sure. Still feeling pain. Nobody's saying anything. And it just turns into this

that like you said, a black cloud where you don't know game to game. We tweak. What's weird is that I guess he looked pretty good in that bowls game. I didn't watch it. I just saw the highlights. I watched the game. It was, it was weird. He like,

He started out terrible. He was 0 for 7 or something. And everything was short. That Memphis game was the same thing where everything was short. And he has this brace, his full-leg brace on. And they started to get warmed up. And they're spamming this high pick and roll with him and Maxie. And Maxie would just give him a pocket pass. And he would just shoot from 16 feet. And Busevic just didn't do anything about it. And even if Busevic was on him, he would just jab step and then shoot over him. And he was like...

I don't have the numbers for him. He's like eight for 10 from like around the foul line, which is where, in my opinion, when he was best, when actually Doc was coach, he would just like operate from the foul line, but he would do a lot of distributing and like driving. But they really, it's just like, it got to the point where like the third quarter, he was just absolutely wet from the mid range. Like he scored like a, like a ton of points after starting, starting over seven, looking like he might as well just like go back on the bench. Yeah. It's like, it's like when you see, um,

Like in a sports movie, there's like the, the fat old washed up guy who wanders on the court and just starts hitting like 20 footers. It just seems like a bead. He's so skilled from 18, 19 feet. It doesn't matter. They hadn't played for a month. All of a sudden he could just hit nine straight 20 footers. But,

Not to be a party pooper, but they're in this stretch. Hollinger called it the NBA bye week, basically, where everybody has one or two games over the course of eight days. They're playing Chicago, then they have all this rest. He can have a game. He's playing Vucevic. He's playing the Bulls, who are a bottom five defensive team. He can go out there, get a good run, get his points, not have to worry about playing the next day.

it's hard to feel optimistic after that is my point. Like I want to see what their schedule starts to get harder. I think at the end of the year, they've got, did they have a road trip? Is he going to be on the road trip? Is he going to play? Then there's the part that you mentioned about the teammates being asked about it. What do you think about Joel? How much do you guys miss Joel? It's just day after day. And,

You know, it's not awesome, especially when you're competing against teams like OKC, where it's like everybody's young and hungry and they're all doing the post-game press conferences together. And they're hanging out and they're ready to go. So I don't know how it plays out. I'll tell you this, though. The extension, that's just a wow.

That is a very debilitating contract. And we talked about this earlier. It's like you don't see a lot of good teams with this new cap bill with any bad contracts, let alone a max contract with a guy who's not playing. That hasn't even kicked in from the extension part yet. 100%. It's like how do you build a team when you have that much sort of money locked up in a player that may or may not even be able to play most nights?

Jacoby, who's your favorite rookie? My favorite rookie? Yeah. In terms of like to watch or like I would want on my team. Because I mean, my favorite rookie is obviously Jared McCain, just like as a vibe. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because he's so much fun and just sort of like so himself off the court. But I am also on Reese's Shea Island.

I wish he made threes. He's like 28% from three, but everything else is there. He's fluid. I know. I like him. That team of Johnson, Daniels, Risa Shea, it's like Trey or no Trey, that is a core that I really, really like. I'm much higher in Atlanta than I should be, and I'll admit that, but I feel the same about Risa Shea. He had a huge game. I forget who it was against. It was early in the season. He had like 30 points or something. I was like, this dude looks like a number one pick in the NBA draft.

He's good. He knows what he's doing. I had over under, but I had over bets for them before the season. When I was in Denver last week, I doubled down because the over was still too low. Cause I think that's a over 500 team. I think my favorite rookie is castle. Yes. Um, for what he is going to do, I think this year is, I think they're going to have real trouble keeping them out of the lineup. And there's a chance like he's their second best player by the end of the year.

I just like him. I like how hard he plays. He seems like the kind of guy OKC would have. Just like a really, really, really gives a shit two-way guy. He can't really shoot yet, but I thought he was my favorite guy heading into the draft. I thought he's the guy I would have taken number one if I was Atlanta and everything I've seen from him.

I would not waver on that one. I want to see more. Reed Shepard is the one I think I'm the most interested by because I don't think Van Vliet's had a good season and the shooting stats back it up. Like they're not good. And I wonder, you know, I know they have like a, I forget if it's a player option or a team option next year, but Reed Shepard within two years will probably be running that team. But I almost, that's one of those where you want like,

you know, Van Blee to have some very minor injury for three days or three games just to kind of see Reed Shepard get to drive the car out of the garage a couple times. He's one. It's weird. I like this draft more than I thought, Kirk. Mm-hmm.

There's a lot of guys, they're not superstars, but there's a lot of guys where I'm like, I kind of like that guy. Even Klingon on Portland. I like Zach Eadie. There's a bunch of them. I'm going to come back to you on Eadie because I need to know how the surf has been over at Eadie Island, if the seawalls are holding up. But I want to know, yes, Castle is the answer for me and it's not close. And I'm obviously close to the Spurs.

They are very excited about all the stuff he does. I love the description of a Thunder-like player. He is that kind of dog in him stereotype, but he does the stuff that doesn't show up in the box score. They love this guy. He's adding sort of an edge to their group. I think Jeremy Sohan is kind of like that too. And I think it could help them

They're destined to build a great defense in San Antonio, and I think he could be part of that. Like Lou Dort, another potentially great defender, he needed to get a shot, and Louis figured that out. So I feel like Castle could get a little of that. Dalton Connect obviously needs to be mentioned. I know he's older, but I think he's been fantastic defensively

given where they got him in the draft. I'm still on Richer Shea Island. I'm not giving up on that anytime soon. But for me, I'll say Reed Shepard, I think, is going to be great in this league for a long time. But I'm going Castle has really won me over in the last few weeks specifically. But tell me, Bill, Zach Eadie, was he everything you dreamed of? Or are you a little bit let down at this point in the season? Well, I think Memphis is so deep that I thought he would actually...

be this important, like weird, just kind of, you know, throw a cannonball in the pool just to shake it up kind of thing, but they don't need it. They just have too many good bench guys. Their bench is crazy. And the fact that Aldama is actually good now. Yeah, you can't take minutes away from Huff and Aldama. What are you crazy? He's also not available. He's just not available right now. We haven't seen him too much. Yeah, true. Yeah, Sar...

that's probably the worst possible situation for a guy like that. It's like your team's going to just be awful and you're just going to learn some bad habits, but too early to, uh, to say what we talked about him. I mean, one other thing with Memphis, like another reason that Edie's probably not even going to play that much is that Brandon Clark, uh,

has, uh, I, I was so impressed with him in the Boston game, but just, it feels like he's got his explosiveness back and he's a really unique player. Like that crazy undersized energy guy that always seems to be on good teams. So yeah, I liked the draft. Um,

We'll see with Dillingham. That was the other one I was super duper intrigued by, but it feels like they phased them out a little bit because they're trying to get their defense going. So we'll see what happens with that. Who's your most disappointing team, Jacoby? Indiana? I mean, you're leading the witness, so I'm going to try to go with another team. Oh, you're going to zag on me? That's fine. I'm trying to.

But, I mean, obviously the most disappointing team is the Sixers, but I think there's a reason for that. It's just availability. I think the Sixers will turn around and end up being a playoff team. Let's not forget they were in the play-in last year and ended up in a really good series against the Knicks. But it has to be the Pacers and the Halliburton. Remember this time last year, during the in-season tournament, it was called at the time,

They were the bell of the ball. And Halliburton was this rising superstar. They put him in this stupid commercial with Rosario Dawson. He's not even a factor whatsoever. And his home road stuff is really strange. I don't think I've seen anything like that. But yeah, I would say the Pacers because the expectations were at a point where they're just not reaching. It's probably Tommy Elcher's fault. Who's your most disappointed team, Kirk?

Oh, this one's for Chris Vernon. The Memphis Grizzlies. I've been very disappointed. I'm just kidding. He passed for it and he didn't hear it. Yeah, that's right. I would say the Minnesota Timberwolves because I thought the Randall trade was good. Dante DiVincenzo too. It hasn't worked.

It has not worked. They went from having a very strong identity with great defense and good offense to not really having an identity and looking like a middle-of-pack team in the Western Conference when most of us thought they were going up a level, not down a level in this exact season, Bill. So for me, I think the Pacers have a very strong claim to this conference finalists. But I will say Minnesota because I really want Anthony Edwards to be...

the face of American superstars in the next five, 10 years. I love everything about him. So I've been particularly disappointed with that team's performance after what they did last year. Those are two great choices. Congratulations to both of you. But the answer is the Phoenix Suns. They don't have KD. Okay. They don't have KD. Make excuses for big shot Bob Sarver. They're 13 and 11. They're like one in nine without KD. Okay. But guess what?

They traded all their first round picks. They traded Mikael Bridges. They traded Cam Johnson. They traded DeAndre Ayton. They traded all their second round picks. They traded everything to have basically a three guy team. And one of the three guys has been in the league since 2007 and has a bunch of injuries and has gotten hurt twice. And I don't know why I fell for it. It made me mad.

They were one of my favorite overs. I picked them to win the division. I thought they were going to be a 50 plus win team. And I forgot the fact that they're built around this guy who's been in the league for 18 years, asking him to be the rim protector, their crunch time score to put, do 30 a game, nine rebounds a game, make 50% of your shots and 45% of your threes do everything. And it's like, Oh, guess what? He lasted a month before he got hurt twice.

And I'm just mad at myself more than anything. But you have to be disappointing when you trade literally a decade of stuff for the team you have in your 13 and 11. So that's my answer. They've made the Beal trade where you're like, that's great. Well, no one liked that trade.

Yeah, especially now with all the apron stuff that happened, that trade looks even 100 times worse. Like you would much rather have the flexibility now. But when you just consider all the assets they sent out for the team that they have now, and it's all hinging on, well, when Durant's healthy, might not happen. You know, he's 7'1", and he's had a lot of lower below the hip injuries at this point. And they put a huge burden on him and play in big minutes. And I would just be nervous if I was the Suns.

Yeah, I can see it. Counterpoint. You don't want to draw them in the first round of the playoffs. Let's imagine KD plays well, gets back. They're going to climb in the standings. Right now, I think they're 10th or whatever. They're going to climb in the standings, and then you see them in the first round, and you're like, man, Booker and KD can get on a heater.

It feels a little bit like they're basically the Sixers. But counter, doesn't everybody have two good guys at this point? No. No, the Rockets have zero. They're one of the best teams in the league. But they can play defense, though. Yes. I guess for me, Kirk, with Phoenix, there's always going to be, now that Nurkic is pretty much unplayable, so they're leaning on Plumlee now as their center, and Tyus Jones. These are like bench guys.

These are guys that would be like 10th or 11th players on the Celtics or the Thunder. And these are two of their crunch time guys. Yeah, it goes back to our theme earlier. It's like, there's not a lot of old and overpaid great teams in the NBA right now. And they're best players older, as you pointed out. Devin Booker's certainly not old. I'm not mad at his contract. The Beal deal, to me, sticks out like a sore thumb on their cap sheet. Nurk, like...

you have to have pretty much a perfect roster. And I kind of agree with you. Doesn't everybody have at least one superstar that we're talking about winning at all? Yeah, pretty much. I think that is fair. And to me, the differentiating stuff is now lower down on your depth chart. And that's where this team is just really not great. And I don't think they'll ever be able to play defense well enough to keep up with the top teams in the West. But I keep going back to that Bradley Beal thing

decision because that was a lot of depth they traded essentially for one other player that might have sort of a repetitive role next to Devin and Kevin. 70 plus million for Bradley Beal and Nurkic and Bol Bol. Is Bol Bol still on the team? Yeah. Smells like new owner decisions. Guys, thanks for staying up with me. It's a pleasure seeing you. Great seeing you in your weird, weird, undisclosed New York City location at one in the morning.

We don't know where you are. Be careful walking home, Jacobs. Kirk, great to see you. Even though we were your sloppy seconds tonight, I had a great time talking to you guys. I will see you soon, I'm sure. Thanks for coming on. This episode is brought to you by Bank of America. Money decisions don't have to be either or. With Bank of America, they can be yes and, as in yes to grabbing the latest merch and building up your budget for next season's tickets.

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Who we haven't been together in a long time. Yeah. Really since Super Bowl with the Giants and the Pats that I never really talked about. Craig Horlbeck is here too. Let's talk football. All right. There's no reason for this. We just turned the mics on. Come on. Sal brought up last night on the podcast about whether if you were, granted, it's like a generic talk show segment, but it really got my brain turning about Josh Allen versus Mahomes. Mm-hmm.

Mahomes, the resume versus what we're actually watching week to week, game to game, like the shit that he's doing, the shit when they're down 35 to 13 against the Rams. And you're just like, not turning this off. I feel like Josh can bring this back. You've been on the bills thing forever. So is anything different this year or is, is,

Are the toys better for him? Is it just the experience? What is it? What's different? Between the ears. It's like the happiest he's ever been in his life. And I mean, like, in all different ways. Is that a Stefan Diggs subtweet? A little bit. Yeah. It's funny to think about. Like, can you even remember the last Bills loss? It's been so long.

before the Rams game. Yeah. They lost to the Texans that night and the take was like, wow, Diggs got over on the bills and there was this viral moment of Diggs like side-eyeing him and we haven't heard from Diggs since he got hurt and Allen's taken over the world. But loves his offensive coordinator, never more comfortable, loves the guys in the room and I don't think this is irrelevant. Like, he's engaged to a movie star and a pop star and his personal life is out of control, like over the hill, over the moon, amazing. And he has a good run game and a good offensive line. Like, what do you want as a quarterback?

My line's awesome. My running backs are awesome. I have like a really cool girl that I'm with. And like my receivers are cool guys. And I know they're not Calvin Johnson, but like they make plays for me. I think he's so happy and so confident. I think it's great. Yeah, we joked last week on the Fantasy Pod that last week was Josh Allen's Apex Mountain, right? Engaged to Haley Steinfeld. Had the big night game whole thing. Literally a week later, he already beat it. Even though he lost to the Rams, I would say now this is his Apex Mountain. He had the greatest day in fantasy football history, basically. 52 points. And he locked up the MVP.

You think it's done? Yeah. I think he did, yeah. I can't count out Lamar yet for some reason, but I think it's like, FanDuel would say it's done. It's like he's like a minus 500 favorite. In a regular year, Lamar. There's still a month left. There's Lamar fatigue. He's already got it a couple times. Yeah. And listen, I want Saquon to win a batter. Just be cool. He would have to have the perfect campaign. Like, he'd have to break the Dickerson record. He'd have to have the touchdown, everything. Allen just took it away. I'm not sure it can be Saquon.

Oh, really? It's hard. Two years ago, the Eagles made the Super Bowl with Miles Sanders. Yeah. And so it's like, I just... I'm out. I did this last week. I'm out on the Saquon. I just think like... I want it to. It would be cool, but I don't think they can do it. This is the dumbest way to think about it, but I also think it's the best way to think about it. When somebody gets hurt, what happens to the line? Mm.

Like if Josh Allen got hurt, the Bills line moves by nine points. If Barkley gets hurt, the Eagles line moves by like two and a half points. Again, they were like the best team in the league with Miles Sanders too. Yeah. So that's what I hate that it has to be a quarterback pretty much every year unless the guy's having the most amazing season ever or there's no like awesome quarterback.

But for the most part, this is the most, it's like saying like, no, the pilot's not the MVP of this airplane. It's actually the third flight attendant. Got those peanuts. She's killing it. It's like, you know who's the MVP? The fucking pilot. Because we're crashing if the pilot doesn't make it. But I think as the Allen thing, especially as it pertains to Mahom, my concern is that that Rams game,

20 years from now when you tell your kids, your grandkids about Josh Allen, that's the Josh Allen experience. He's unbelievably cool superhero action star and the Bills lose. Right, and they have the dopey play with the QB sneak where they waste the time out. Is that this era? What are you doing? I just worry that he's...

like Dominique Wilkins or something. Like, it's just so awesome. Incredible talent. What did it amount to? He's even said it. He's like, he said it. I'm sick of winning t-shirts. He has a whole stack of t-shirts that are like division champ t-shirts. And he's like, I want to get them out of my closet. I don't want these anymore. That's what he's known for at this point. Because if they lose in the playoffs, if they lose in the playoff this year to the Chiefs,

What do you think if you're a Bills fan? Like, this Chiefs team sucks. We can't even beat this one. It's a big, big playoff year. That's why it'll be the Steelers that they lose to. It might be. I know you're big on the Steelers. I am. I am stunned that the Steelers have not gotten more credit this year. I don't get it. I don't know what else they have to do. I'm holding my breath a little bit. They have a really tough— Crazy Steelers fans. I'm a Steelers fan. I'm being super careful. This is a tough four-game stretch they're heading into. And it's been pretty easy the last four weeks. Now they're Eagles, Chiefs, Bengals—

Bengals? No. Eagles, Chiefs, Bengals. It's a tough stretch. They're playing Christmas night too. Yeah. The Josh thing, the way you laid it out really makes me think of Peyton Manning first half of the 2000s where he had reached this point where he was the best regular season quarterback. He was the guy you would take first in fantasy, all that stuff. But you never felt like he was actually going to win.

And then they end up winning in 06, partly because the Pats choked away a 21-3 halftime lead. In the dome. Marlon Jackson interception sealed it. And it was like, holy shit, they beat Brady. And this is my test for the Chiefs right now. So we're picking away at all of them, and they barely win, and all their numbers are terrible, and the offense looks legitimately bad except for one drive every game. Let's say they get the one seed. They get the buyout.

The division round, you're watching on your couch, and the Chiefs lose to Pittsburgh or Baltimore or Houston or somebody like that. Are you surprised? Because I'm shocked. I'll fall off my chair if they lose the division round, even as bad as they've been. That's my respect for them. I agree completely. It's every week. You'd be shocked? I'd be shocked if the Chiefs lost. I was like, oh, you know, if the Bills play the Chiefs again in the playoffs, this is what we see every year. The Bills beat Mahomes in the regular season. Mahomes beats Allen in the playoffs.

It's the same thing every single year. The problem for the Chiefs is sometimes you can pass the point of no return with weapons. Because, and I said this last time on the pod, like,

This did happen to Brady a couple of times where like 06, he was awesome. And we just had nobody. We had Lawrence Moroney and starting running back and Rashay Caldwell and Jabbar Gaffney and Ben Watson. And it's like, you just didn't have enough weapons when we needed third downs. There was that one guy to get open. There wasn't that awesome running back. I don't think the chiefs weapons are that bad, but there's been some Brady seasons where he was better than the team.

And I wonder with Mahomes' shot, I thought he took a lot of hits on Sunday night. It's so weird. I feel like last year was the year the Chiefs were supposed to lose. And then the criticisms would come. What did they go? 11-6. And it was like, yeah, you know, this is what we were saying. You can't do this again. Not with these weapons. Yeah, the Raiders killed them on Christmas. Yes, it was like a super weird year. Or should they have lost and...

Allen missed that one throw to Diggs. There was one other play. Like, if you really watch that game closely, it was kind of amazing the Bills didn't win that game. Yeah, I don't think anybody knows what to do now, now that they come out of this weird 11-6 year where they shouldn't have won the Super Bowl, but they did. And now they're 12-1, and they've won 16 straight games that were one score. Yeah. It's the most improbable run. I mean, can you think of anything like this in the last 20, 30 years in the NFL? No, it's nuts.

Now there, there were some weird Patriot years wondering like how we were doing it week after week, but this is different because they're almost adding this degree of difficulty to the wins. And I'm not a lucky person with football. I never really bought into that because clearly they're good. Clearly like the plays that he was making yesterday, especially in the last drive, that third and 15 was crazy. Cool. Yeah. Right. The third and seven, you know, he's going to get it. So that that's its own skill.

I thought what concerned me if I was them was the charges. I thought were really physical with them in the second half. In a way that I don't remember seeing with the Chiefs. Yes. But you always felt like the Chiefs were going to lose. It was because they…

you know, they dropped the key third down pass or something. I thought the Chargers were like pushing them back without their best running back. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the Chargers are built like Michigan without their best receiver. No, definitely. I think the Chargers are going to win a playoff game. I like them still. I'm not jumping ship on the Chargers. Yeah. Without the best receiver, without the best, they play great defense. So there'll be a six seed, right?

They'll be whatever behind Baltimore and Pittsburgh. So 16 would put them probably against either Buffalo or Pittsburgh. Yeah. And I don't like that match. I don't like the Chargers. But the distinction, I think, with the Chiefs' weapons, it's like, I think there's having players that are just kind of average. But then there's having players who are just kind of average the way they're playing who are made guys. Yeah.

like John Hopkins and Kelsey even Juju those are guys who've been around who've been in playoff games who've won those are the guys who are like oh shit we turned on the division around Kelsey had nine catches and two touchdowns right like they've done it it's

It's not average players who just suck and have never done it. These guys are all a friend of ours. You know what I mean? They can turn it on. Well, that's why I'm so cautious with the Chiefs because of the Kelsey keeping him in the garage with the tarp on thing. Yeah. Like they're just clearly doing that. Yeah. We didn't see him for two hours in the game yesterday. And you know, in fantasy, like people are still paying for him in fantasy. Yeah. He was still fringed. First guy who went off the board in drafts. It was like him and Laporta. Yeah.

But then you watch Bowers, although Tampa was able to take him out a little yesterday. And Bowers is just like Gronk crossed with Kelsey, crossed with like a sports movie tight end. He's open all the time. He's just crushing everybody. And Kelsey could probably do that in January in round two, but I don't think they're using that skill now. So I don't know if I had to rank them. I honestly think Pittsburgh's the safest bet out of the three because of the defense. More than Buffalo.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think they could be Buffalo in Buffalo because they can get some explosive plays, but I think Buffalo has a better chance of beating Casey.

Because the thing with KC that I can't wrap, I feel like if you can get 24 and up on them points-wise, you're probably beating them. Right? Buffalo beat them 30-21. Yeah. But Pittsburgh is more likely to play the 18-16, 19-16 type Kansas City game, which is better for KC. So I do feel like there's some rock, paper, scissors. Yeah. I think Arthur Smith and Russ...

are really starting to work well, especially last week without Pickens, which I do think Tomlin held Pickens. I think Pickens could have played in that game. And I think they knew they had this gauntlet coming up. They held them against the Browns. I 100% agree. They were at home. I think that was a very smart move by Tomlin. They knew they could beat Jameis. There were more open guys in that game than there've been all season for Pittsburgh. So I do think Arthur Smith and Russ are really starting to gel. I just worry that in January, they're in Buffalo. They need to score 35 to beat the Bills. They're doing too high. They're taking off all the top end stuff for Russ.

You really got to rely on like Najee Harris having a good game running the ball. And then if it's not Pickens, it gets real thin real quick. I'm a little worried. I almost wonder if like they could muck it up with the Chiefs and win a game like 1970. That's where I feel. Yeah, but Kyle knows the way to beat the Bills is what the Rams did yesterday. You're just

Blake Cuomo. Five-yard run. Four-yard run. Seven-yard run. Seven-yard pass. Three-yard run. Five-yard. You had Stafford throwing up. Chipping away, chipping away, chipping away. Lock a punt. You get this big play. Yeah, big defensive play. And then, Jesus Christ, Nakua and Cooper were just doing anything they wanted. They looked bad. I mean, Stafford, Nakua, and Pukar is like the highest degree of difficulty offense in the league.

Like, it is so hard, but they do it because they're so good. And I'm like, I don't... I will worry a little bit. But what did they run for? The running game, I thought, was the most interesting part of that. Because Buffalo, I wouldn't say they're like a...

giant defense. No, not really. It feels like you can push it backwards. They thought that, okay, so Matt Milano's back now. Like he was the heart and soul of their defense. He's back there going to stop it. And Terrell Bernard's amazing in the middle. But like they did this Blake Corum thing that we haven't seen a lot of them this year. And then obviously Kyron. My, I have a little bit of a spicy take on the Bills-Rams thing is I actually think that loss was good for the Bills. And I'll tell you why. Like,

Everybody was just on their nuts across the whole country because they did a lateral play and they won in the snow and they're the best team ever. They go across the country, they get their ass whipped a little bit. Now they play the Lions, which is one of the biggest games of the regular season. I think they need to have their shit humbled a little bit, just a little bit. They were so good.

such a darling for about three or four days. And then they weren't that good. And I think that get that loss out of the way now, maybe, and have a little bit of a wake-up call. I actually was not shocked that they lost that game because McVay is amazing. And when Cup and Nakua are out there for the Rams this year, the Rams are 6-2.

Like, they're a very, very good team. And their defense is, like, super young. Super doesn't give a crap. I'll hit Josh Allen late. Talk shit to him. Don't care. Like, the Rams are... If I had to pick a team that, holy shit, a team that's in the Super Bowl, I'd pick the Rams as, like, the holy shit team. Your holy shit team? My holy shit team is the Rams. Like, that is a dark horse, Cinderella, all that. Like, they have the quarterback and...

I think they have the best coach in football and they have this crazy young defense who doesn't know they're not supposed to be that good yet. They're my holy shit Super Bowl team. I think the holy shit team has to be AFC. Okay. Just for me. But I like that pick. But I think... Like the Chargers would be a holy shit AFC team. I just think that Detroit-Philly talent pedigree is going to be really... Especially if you have to go into Detroit round two, round three and try to take those guys. Whereas the AFC, I don't really love any team. And I could... I feel the best about Pittsburgh. I certainly wouldn't feel...

like awesome about Russell Wilson winning three straight playoff games. Yeah. And if this is the year to go against KC. My holy shit playoff team would actually be the Chargers. Because... I'm with you on that. They can block...

And they can chase the passer. And once we get into January, if you can just do those two things, make a couple plays, not turn the ball over and win a couple ugly games. That's what the Chiefs did last year. You know, I was really impressed by that mystery. I think they're the Chargers in a loss. I thought they, I thought they really handled the Chiefs defensive line. I was surprised. And like Herbert misses wide open touchdown, right? He missed another guy like 35 yards down the field.

Their running backs are among the worst in the league without Dobbins. Yeah. Gus Edwards and Vidal. Like, come on. They're overachieving this year. Like, it's impressive already what Harbaugh's done year one. This was supposed to be kind of like, all right, we'll get our line and we build from the inside out, see what we got. We'll see what we have in Ladd McConkie. He's already one of the better rookie wide receivers in the league. You know what's funny? We talk about football all the time.

And we always look for these angles on what makes the team special, who's going to be the sleeper. This was the first year where I was like, all I care about are coaches and QBs. Smart. I did all my over-unders and I was like, if you have a coach or a QB, I'm not even worried that the Chargers don't have receivers. I'm going over. I'm picking them to make the playoffs. They have Harbaugh and Herbert. Doesn't matter. That should be enough. Whereas like flip side,

I don't know. Vegas. I don't understand their quarterback situation at all. I don't know what we're getting into. I'm out.

And I wonder sometimes is football just that simple? Is it all about the QB and the coach and the rest of it is like periphery? Yeah. In retrospect, looking at Rogers and Sala, it's like, I, you know, I like Robert Sala. Were you big on them? Yeah. I think everybody was a little bit. That was my big mistake. I had the Jets over Buffalo in the division. That was my biggest regret. But Rogers is washed. Like he's, you know, if you knew he was going to be the 41 year old wash Rogers, I wouldn't have picked that. I know. My big thing in fantasy this year was like, try to eliminate, uh,

as much randomness as you can like only bet on things that you can depend on that you know are going to happen and quarterback and then i just was completely blind to the jets like a 40 year old quarterback coming off a torn achilles i just biggest miss i got so deceived by all the buffalo dead cap space stuff and transition year i just they they snookered me i think they snookered themselves i don't even know if they expected this yeah i really do think it was all right this would be a year and we'll lose in the wild card or whatever but

just Allen's been that good and defense has been that good. Can I give you like a surprise disgruntled team right now? Yeah. I'm kind of with you. Like I have a couple of friends,

And they're Philly guys. And they're like beside themselves right now. They hate this team. They're like, we're going to lose. We're going to go one and done. They're panicking. But like six days ago, everybody was thinking Detroit's defense is so banged up. Philly, the season parted for Philly. That's how I was feeling. The Eagles have won nine in a row. Yeah. They're like, nope. Hurts doesn't have it. Their kicker keeps missing. That freaks people out. He can't make one from 50 plus. He hasn't made one all year.

after this game, this last game. The problem is, all right, they barely beat the Panthers. And people have to update their expectations of the Panthers. The Panthers aren't the Panthers of September. They're actually kind of good. They're frisky. Like, they almost beat the Chiefs. Yeah. They're exactly frisky. They had a 98-yard drive almost to win a game with three minutes left. I mean, Bryce Young won that game. We'll get dropped. Yeah, I know. And so Eagles fans are like, first of all, the Panthers are pretty good. But then right after the game, A.J. Brown, after a win...

the ninth in a row. They're like, AJ, what do you think you need to work on? He's like, passing. You got to get better at passing. Jesus, AJ, you won nine in a row. Like, there's some issues with Hurts. And I think there's Eagles fans still don't totally believe in him. Just my friends. I think he's a really good player, but there's my friends. And I think also- And they don't really believe in Sirianni either, right? Definitely not. So coach and quarterback.

And also, I think A.J. Brown is like, I'm tired of this Saquon shit. Like, we passed the ball the least in the whole team. They're ranked last in the league in pass attempts. They run it. They have an MVP running back. I don't know if he's liking that either. This reminds me of, I was talking to an MVP. There's nine in a row they've won, and they're like, they're pissed. Are they waiting for the collapse? Because remember, the Eagles were like 10-1 last year, but it was the weirdest Super Bowl hangover where everybody was miserable, but they were 10-1. No, they're supposed to be good. Their defense is awesome. It's amazing. They retooled immediately. This is a theory I heard about the Nuggets.

You made me think of about like AJ Brown being pissed. Yeah. Like that. It was like, why isn't Jamal Murray playing better? It's like, cause Jokic does everything. This person I know was, was saying how, uh, NBA, it was just a theory. It's like, those guys are tired of just being like Jokic's towel boys. And, and,

Everything's Jokic, Jokic, Jokic. Oh, what a miracle it must be to play with Jokic. Oh, he gets all the stats. And like Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr. Where's mine? I want you too. Because they already won a title. So A.J. Brown's like, enough with the backwards hurdle. We get it. Enough with the sequence shit. Enough with the tush push. I don't know. It's probably easier when the star is the quarterback. When it's the running back, it probably rubs A.J. Brown the wrong way. He's like, I'm just as good as that guy. Look, I can't play quarterback. That's true. It's the running back? Really? It's true. I mean, counter...

Is there a wide receiver who's gruntled? I don't know. We have a lot of disgruntled receivers. Do we have gruntled receivers? Jefferson always seems pretty gruntled. Even when he wasn't putting up numbers. Yeah, he seemed happy for Addison. Huge contract. Huge. Plays indoors. Like, everybody loves him. I think Jefferson's gruntled.

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Do you buy Minnesota yet? I know that's been a, we, we, for three months, all of us who do podcasts and content, we're all just assuming this was your classic Viking season where the stats say they should have been nine and eight and they went 14 to three, but every week, but yeah, the same Donald conversation.

I, it's nuts. So my background in Sam Darnold is okay. We're supposed to be the number one overall pick fell a little bit. Baker rises up and steal it from that point. Every single coach slash guru, all the McVeigh's and Shanahan's and like Jordan Palmer types. They all swear that Sam's the man. Oh, Darnold's incredible. Darnold's got it.

And as a fan, you're like, he mostly sucks every time we see him. It just feels like when somebody keeps recommending the show, you got to watch this show. It's so good. It's so good. And you're like, it's not that good. They're like, watch another episode. I promise. Watch another episode. That was Schitt's Creek for me. Yeah. Keep, you know, you got to watch. I mean, dude, I'm on three seasons in. I don't like the show. It's a sitcom. The show is finally amazing. And all those coaches were like, he's amazing. And yet,

They may just cut Baitland this year. I was going to ask. I don't know. What do they have to do in the playoffs where it becomes a problem for the Minnesota front office thinking, well, now what? I say to Sal. They're in the NFC Championship. What happens now? I say to Sal on Sunday's pod, I don't know how they let him go at this point. Like when you have a quarterback that you're built, your team's built around these two awesome receivers that you have, right? You have a quarterback who's clearly clicking with them in a real way, who's made big plays over and over again down the stretch.

why do I have to start JJ McCarthy next year? Why can't I just trade JJ McCarthy? He's the eighth. It was seventh or eighth pick. What was he? Seventh? Seventh pick. I don't know where he was. Top 10. I know he's coming off a torn ACL. Yeah. But you loved him. But you think like I'm trading him for a high second and I get to pay Sam Darnold. I think Sal and I went through all the teams that need quarterbacks. There's probably four legitimate plus maybe Seattle if they don't pay Gino, maybe Purdy. Sure. Six total. Yeah.

I just think if I'm Vegas, I'm paying them. They're like the anti-Chiefs because no matter how bad the Chiefs look, I think to myself, I'm still going to bet on the Holmes. No matter how good the Vikings look. It doesn't matter how good the Vikings look. I'm like, hey, in the playoffs, I'm going to bet against them. Yeah, we did million dollar picks Thursday and the house was like imploring me to put the Vikings in a parlay.

And I was just like, it looks too easy. Something's wrong. I don't know. It makes me nervous. Nobody likes cousins. And we ended up doing it. And Falcon scored seven, nothing. And I'm texting house like motherfucker. Why did I listen to you? Fucking dick. They were good early. Listen, same organization Vikings few years back. They're in the NFC title game. Their quarterback is case Keenum. Right. Killing it. Making miracles. That's a fun day. He's like, Oh my God, Keenum. Yeah. Moved on. Went to cousins. It was the right move. Yeah. But here's the difference with Darnold.

If you're just talking about what, if I have a franchise quarterback, what do I want? Do I want size? Well, he has that escapability. He has that cannon arm, has that. Is he pretty good down the stretch or when you need him to make some plays? He's done that all year. Also, he doesn't say shit. It's like a model citizen, great reputation. Teammates like him. Yeah. I don't know what he's missing. I watch quarterbacks for 10 to 11 hours every Sunday and most of them are bad and he's actually pretty good.

The take is very insulting to him. Here's the take. Okay. You have Jefferson and Addison and Aaron Jones and Hawkinson and KOC is your coach.

of course you're succeeding right it's the it's the brock purdy we put somebody in there it's the brock purdy and you know how it's gonna go because when he leaves and signs a four-year 160 million daniel jones contract somewhere else he's not gonna be good because it's the kevin o'connell system of making josh dobbs good for three weeks and it seems like kevin o'connell is like the guru quarterback whisperer now and i just know darnold is gonna go sign a deal with like god forbid the giants or something and be terrible it's gonna happen and we've seen cousins went 11 and 1 as

as a Vikings quarterback. And they won every... And they lost to Daniel Jones. So that's part of the reason why everyone's like, I don't know, Darnold. I feel like we've seen this shit before. That's why you're saying no matter how much they win, you don't believe in them. Because we could look up and they lose in the wildcard round. We said this about Baker last year and then they signed him and he's been good this year. That's true. The best thing with Darnold is how young he is. What is he like? He's very young. 27, right? If I were them, I would try to sign him for like...

100 for four years, something like that. Try to get him like 25 a year and then try to trade JJ McCarthy. But supposedly he hurt his ACL again. So maybe he doesn't even have the same. It's just that to me, that feels like the disaster is like we had this guy. Mm hmm.

Now we let him go because JJ's ready. And then what if JJ's not good? And those receivers are like, what the fuck? I know. Darnold had 40 touchdowns. Imagine the other way, though. They trade their top 10 pick, JJ McCarthy, who goes off and has a great career. And then next year, Sam Darnold turns back into a pumpkin. And it's like one of the worst front office moves of all time. Yeah. To your point, though, let's say the Vikings are like, we love Sam, but we have a very bright future for JJ. We want to be in bench. What?

what is the line that the Vikings get to where they're like, well, we're in the Super Bowl. We can't get rid of Sam Darnold now. Do they have to win it? I think you have to get to the Super Bowl because already Case Keenum was in the title game with them. They've already been that a few years ago. I think if he gets to the Super Bowl, I guess you're coming back. You know, as a fan, I was in a situation once with a guy by the name of Tom Brady in 2001. Bloodsuck gets hurt. Brady keeps his job, and we're kind of like –

is he going to be the starter? And we'll be like, I don't see what happens. And all of a sudden he won the Superbowl. This is the first time getting traded. The first Tom Brady, Sam Donald's comp. Yeah. I just, you never know. I like it. The thing is Detroit, Detroit's defense mess. And I don't see how it really gets better. Right. So at least there's a little bit of a hole there. Philly has all the chemistry stuff.

Green Bay, I'm not sure I trust Jordan Love. And just in general, I wouldn't pencil them in. Minnesota can play with all of these teams. Those three teams in the North, they're 28-3 outside of the North. They beat everybody. They might be the three best teams of the week.

they're up there. I think they're all top five teams. Who knows? They're 28-3 when they're not playing each other. So they kick the shit out of everybody. I think the Lions' defense reputation is down right now because of what we just saw. I think they'll be better. I think they'll be back. I still think they're going to win the Super Bowl. I still think it's the Lions. I would at gunpoint pick them as well, but I don't feel great about it. Lions over Pittsburgh, you think, maybe? Or Chiefs? No, I would still. Life depends on it. I'm still doing Lions-Casey. But I just think right now,

Mid-December. Is it mid-December? It is. Well, yeah. I think Pittsburgh is the most complete all-around team right now. I don't know what that's going to mean. Where are you at with Russ? Isn't this weird for you to be saying that? Every fucking week, Russ makes three 40-yard plays or gets a pass interference. There's a play that moves the ball 35 to 50 yards, three times a game with him. And it happens every single week.

And at some point, that's what they do. Yeah. Whereas the Chiefs get none of those plays. The Chiefs had 130-yard play to Hopkins and he dropped it. It seemed like a miracle that they almost completed it. Russ is cocky right now. He's doing this like, you know. Yeah, he does. He's talking a lot of shit. He gets down on one knee and like points to the side. Has he always done that?

or is that a new move? I never saw it. He does a lot of like running over to the sideline and barking at the OC and shit like that. Have you, have either of you, have you done the Russ pop culture comp? Like what, what this is? Because like I was doing it the other day with Peter. I think it's, it's, it's, it's Travolta.

- The comeback. - Seattle was all of the 70s and 80s and he's a superstar. He's the coolest rock star ever. Denver was, look who's talking, it's pathetic. And then like four and two, Mike Tomlin put him in and it was just Pulp Fiction. And like, he's like the coolest guy ever now and can't miss. It's an amazing- - I would go Lady Gaga. - You go Lady Gaga. - What? - Yeah. - Explain. - Really strong start. Considered a diva pretty early on. - Yes. - Did some good stuff.

faded a little bit, and then A Star is Born was her Pittsburgh. That's big. That's the 4-2 Pittsburgh. But then is it going to end with Joker 2? That would be a bummer. Oh, yeah. Craig, you should have brought the house down next year. But, I mean, you root for Russ every week. Yeah. He's surprisingly good. There's just no other way to say it. He's been doing this now for two and a half months. I'm enjoying it one week at a time. He makes plays over and over and over again. I'm not looking ahead. I'm not looking into the future. I'm just every week I'm having a good time. I always would think that Tomlin wouldn't be here for it.

the Russ theatrics that we used to see. - Tomlin's good at that. - He seems so affected. Like I guess he's worked with every problem. - Tomlin likes weird. - Yeah. - I mean he works with Pickens who's ready to start a giant fight at the end of every game. - The list goes on and on. - Pickens is great. - The other thing with Pittsburgh,

Their kicker. Is there another kicker you feel better about during any playoff game in bad weather than Boswell? He's like the new Tucker. He lined up like a 54-yarder yesterday. He's making that. He's been that guy. He's been the best offensive player in the Steelers for the last five years. I think he leads the league in points. Tomlin, Boswell. I can't find the holes. It's really like who's going to be that second receiver on third and nine. But Mike Williams had a couple of good plays yesterday. Yeah. And Fryer-Muth. They're really good.

They're amazing, Tim. It's like the rest thing, you see comebacks, like they suck. You never see when someone's a superstar-

then sucks. And then as a superstar, again, the only ones I can think of are Kurt Warner who went St. Louis with Arizona and then the giants was like just weird. And then Arizona is a Superbowl again. And then even a slightly less version of that. Carson Palmer was with the Bengals. It was with the Raiders. And I don't even remember that. And then he was with Arizona and was also in a title game, but the, the, the good shit. And then good again is really hard to, but especially happens with quarterbacks. Cause it feels like the wrong offensive line, the,

the wrong coach, the wrong team, and they could just get the shit kicked out of them for two years and just completely lose their confidence, right? It's funny. Russ has never been paid the right amount based on what his talent is at the moment. Like when he was on Seattle, when he first got drafted, he kind of like started that rookie quarterback model thing. He was making like 700 grand a year and leaving them to Super Bowl. Then the Denver thing happens and he's making $43 million a year and he's terrible. And now he's great again on Pittsburgh making $1 million a year. I know Denver's still paying him, but.

And then he'll probably, I think the plan is, and I think this is what the Steelers envisioned the whole time. I think they are going to definitely resign Russ. No question. They just don't want to pay more than 10 to 12. I'm guessing they have a whole thing. We also might get Pittsburgh Denver in the playoffs. That'd be pretty fun. You talked about the comeback though with him and how unusual that is. The other thing that's unusual for me, I always feel like quarterbacks hit that point of no return.

It just doesn't seem like they want to get hit anymore, which Rogers was clearly the last seven, eight weeks. It's like, that guy doesn't want to get hit anymore. Roger Wilson last year to me just seemed like anyone could hit him more. That's why when he's a free agent this, this summer, I was just like, well, who cares? The guy doesn't, you know, he's made enough money. He won a Superbowl. He doesn't want it anymore. I know.

but it seems like he's okay with getting hit again. So I don't know whether Tomlin, I just think Tomlin, Tomlin and Reed to me levitate over everybody else. Coaches and quarterbacks. Yeah. When we do playoff picks to start the season, about four years ago, I learned this. I always pick Pittsburgh no matter what. Picked them this year to make the playoffs. And everyone's like, you're an idiot. They have no quarterback. I'm like, I know, but,

but just always pick Pittsburgh they get in the playoffs always and I pick McVay now too every year the Rams just don't that was another one that was another guy with the futures I just did over on the Rams I get that they only have seven players doesn't matter just pick them as long as they have the QB and two receivers they can move the ball yeah we always joke that McVay is the chef on chopped and he's making bolognese out of mayonnaise and who's your holy shit team

I have the Chargers. Kyle. Who did I say? The Rams. You said the Rams. Holy shit, this team is in the Super Bowl. Can I have the holy shit, this team, there's no way this team is going to make the Super Bowl? No, that's not the question. You hate the Texans, right? I hate the Texans. No, they're not good. The Texans are definitely going to play a Saturday playoff game like they always do, and it'll be like 1 o'clock. Everyone's going to pick whoever the other team is. It's probably going to be the Chargers. She's going to be like that Browns game last year. Everyone's like, black, oh. Yeah, Slaloc, I think, is super overrated. I think Stroud's...

in his own head, big brothering every quarterback at midfield and it's completely failed on him. Yeah. Stroud's had a tough second half of the season. Great guy, I think. The Ringer fantasy show hates Stroud big brothering. One of the most, the Caleb moment? The Caleb moment. He's done it multiple times. Yeah. Who else did he do it to? He did it with Drake May too. Yeah, three straight weeks after the Caleb thing and then he finally got off of it.

I missed the Drake May one. Yeah, he's been terrible. He's weighing in with his big picture thoughts on everyone he plays against. And it's like, dude, you're in your second year. Settle down. Yeah. I might go with the Chargers as well, probably, I would say. Just because of their ability to play cold weather. Herbert's so good. The only thing with Herbert is I'm worried that he's going to get hurt sometimes. Herbert is almost too good of a player. I kind of...

I think he's kind of like the Puka Nakua of quarterbacks where I'm like, you actually play the game with too much honor. You don't go out of bounds ever. If there's a throw and Herbert needs to make it and he knows he's going to get drilled, he will get drilled to make the throw. Nick Bolton put a huge hit on him in that Chiefs game. He had that leg in it, but he had to step in to make the throw. So I worry about that. They're 8-5. Baltimore's 8-5. Denver's 8-5 for the 5-6-7.

So the key for the Chargers would have to be to somehow get that five seed and try to play Houston. But I don't know how realistic that is with their schedule. But if they can somehow get, what do they have left? Houston's just dog shit on this. Tampa, Denver, home. Oh, another third and 10 in Houston. Tampa, Denver at home for the Chargers. Then at Pat's home Vegas. Like they could sweep that. Definitely. And Baltimore, I think is going to have a lot of trouble.

sweeping because they had that weird Christmas situation. Isn't it crazy we've talked to playoffs this long and we haven't even mentioned the Ravens? The bloom is off the rose. I know, but what are they going to do when they get there? I don't have them in the Super Bowl. Does anybody? Their stock's low now. It's funny that people get mad about the January Lamar thing. It's like, okay, when is it not going to happen? It's just until he doesn't do the January Lamar thing, that's the way it is. The Raven fans are very touchy about it. Lamar media is weird. Tua media is the worst though. The Tua fan base sucks.

The two people who think he was good yesterday, he was 23 for 37. No picks. It's like, all right, I watched the game. Like I, he had 10 terrible throws. Like stop. I don't trust Tua. Dolphins fans are frosty for sure. No, my, the two, when I think of a Tua play in my head, it's Tyreek Hill turning around to catch an underthrown defense. Who's your fantasy MVP this year, Craig? Uh, fantasy MVP. We all overthought Saquon so much.

Him going in the second and Derrick Henry, the two of them. Both of them going in the second round. Everybody was afraid of the veteran on the new team thing. Now it's going to go the other way. Everyone's going to overvalue it in next year's draft. It's also one of the most unusual fantasy seasons in history because of what happened with McCaffrey. That was so strange. And Bruce Hall who just died of natural causes. Also, just in general with fantasy, this is the healthiest running back season outside of McCaffrey which

That happened before the season, kind of. In-season injuries for running backs, this has been the healthiest season in forever. And I think there's definitely... You know, it was always get a wide receiver in the first round for the last five years. Next year, it's going to swing way back. Everyone's going to be backing on getting all these running backs in the first round. And it will probably regress back to the mean and guys will start getting hurt again. I'm in the camp of... And I have three teams. Two that did badly and one that's doing well. But I just...

I just want to have a good QB. That's all I care about. I feel like I can patch together everything else, but like anyone who has Lamar or Josh Allen or Burrow in any of these leagues, you're just like, fuck, that guy's probably going to win. That's why you play fantasy because of that Allen game against the Rams. Yeah, 100%. The key point is getting a guy who can move. I'm so done with pocket passers. I drafted Goff, who's been good.

He's been solid. Stroud's like this too. It's been so tough because you basically need 280 and three touchdowns that'll go off every single week just for him to get by. Lamar, Josh. Mahomes has turned into that too for different reasons. Mahomes is terrible as a fantasy quarterback. You can't start him. He's the biggest bust at quarterback in fantasy. Before we go, New York, because you're in New York, Giants versus Jets. Yeah.

Which team is more down? Which franchise fan base is more down in the dumps right now between those two? I think the Jets fans are a little in shock.

Whereas the Giants fans are like, I don't know. Like when I run into people on the street and they're like, oh, you're on the football show. And I go, yeah. And the thing I always say to them, wherever I am, I'm like, oh, who's your team? Cowboys, Texans. The Giants fans always go, Giants. Like they're so apologetic. They paid that point where they're apologizing? Oh, no. Yeah. It's just like our show that we do on NFL Network started in 2016. Every single year, the Jets and Giants have sucked.

They've always sucked. The only one that didn't suck was the Giants team when they went on the boat with the Odell thing. Like that's the only glimpse. What about the Danny Dimes playoff win in Minnesota? That was a fever dream. Yeah, but that was, they were like nine and eight that year or whatever. But so I think the Giants fans are like, we know we're terrible and we're embarrassed. I think the Jets fans were like,

They bought some lottery tickets and before they won it, they like put a down payment on a mansion and a boat and they're like, I'm going to win this shit. And then match one number on their lottery ticket. And I think so. I think they're like, their mental health is in question and they're in shock. It sucks. Yeah. It's tough because the Red Sox fans used to be like this too, before we won the world series where it's this rare combination of fatalism and

and thinking things aren't going to go wrong. But then before the season, like this crazy optimism, it's like, how are these two things the same? Where it's like March spring training in 2000, like this is it. Here we go. We're winning this year. Got a great rotation. The Vegas, the odds for the Boston team, they could always put them down because they knew all these dumbasses would come from Massachusetts and bet it.

And the Jets have those fans too that they actually think it's going to work out. And then there's people like Fennessey who's like, this is going to be a beautiful disaster. Well, Sean has the best tweet ever. And when he keeps retweeting about it was the day the Jets Niners were going to play. I love it. I just want to go on record. I think this will be a complete disaster. Everyone will be fired and Rodgers will retire. And he's probably going to be right. That like the Jets season. It might've been the last great tweet. It might've, it was a great tweet. We talked about that on our show. We even brought up Fennessey's tweet.

But this season for the Jets is not like a D or a D. It is an F. Yeah.

it is as bad as it could go short of like a tragedy happened off the field like it is an F they basically had what seven one score games that they had the ball yeah in the last three minutes but somehow didn't win any of them I don't know how they fixed it either Rodgers tried his best you know he has that doc coming out in two weeks yeah you can see he was trying he had his first 300 yard game as a jet this week he's on the press tour he's trying to get viewers now what

A 3-11 Jets team? Yeah, the funniest thing, I watched that whole Jets-Miami game because they had Miami in a parlay. Okay. Miami was terrible the whole game. They looked like they didn't want to be there. They looked like they were the team that was 3-10. Rodgers looked good for a couple quarters. And the Jets were into it. They were trying to win. They were moving the ball. Their offense was better. And somehow Miami still won the game. And it was basically because the Jets, as usual, just fucked up completely with three minutes left. F-.

Pretty brutal. Yes. So what would you rate this season from A plus to F minus? What's a grade for the season so far through 14 weeks? Oh, just as a whole? Yeah, just as a whole. For content, storylines, excitement, everything.

I think it's like a B plus because we have just some really good teams. Like I mentioned that thing, the NFC North is fun. That Bill's Rams game we just watched was amazing. That Lions game against the Packers was 34-31. Like we've got some Rembrandts. We've got some, like when you say what's the game of the year, we have like eight or nine games of the year. And I like that the quarterbacks aren't hurt.

Right? That's really what I care about. Allen's out there. Mahomes out there. Even Burrow on a losing team. You get to watch those guys. You don't have to turn on the Thursday nighter and it's Taylor Heineke versus Mitch Trubisky. I mean, we did lose Aiden O'Connell. We lost Aiden, but I heard it's not as bad as we thought. Maybe he'll be coming back. Maybe he'll be back. Preventative air cast for Aiden O'Connell, yeah. What do you have for a grade? Probably A-. See? I think it's been really fun. I mean, the Lions storyline is amazing. I feel like everybody in America wants the Lions to win a Super Bowl. Also, they're the rare...

public team that's actually really fun to watch every week. I genuinely enjoy watching their offense. When Jamar Gibbs is in the game, I'm like, I don't even know if I'm on a fantasy team. You feel like you do. The golf storyline's great. The weird 12-1 Chiefs is fun. Saquon going to the Eagles and then maybe breaking the rushing record is unbelievable. I think it's been a really fun year.

I would be at an A-, but the Drake May thing puts me at a solid A. I'm just out of my mind about how fun this Drake May thing is. I can't believe he's this good already. I just can't believe it. It is really cool. It's crazy that he's this far along and...

You know, I've had terrible quarterbacks and I've had the greatest quarterback ever. Like, and you just, I don't know if he's going to be even in the ballpark of somebody like Brady, but he's clearly a franchise guy. Like worst case scenario, I feel like he could at least be like Herbert. All you care about is you think you got a guy. We have a guy. Who knows what a man we got a guy. Well, I can't believe I did the B plus then without mentioning it. I mean, I think like they are huge. There's two massive blemishes on the season. The Jets, just complete disaster. Yeah.

and the Bears. I mean, the Bears are a massive disappointment from start to finish. If the Jets are an F, the Bears are a D+. Well, I thought, new coach, I thought you guys bumped back. Oh, no, that was the opposite. You're supposed to get the bump. Like, the Saints got the bump with that guy. The Clogger bumped you back. That Niners-Bears game was maybe the worst game of the year. I mean, it was an unbelievably terrible, pathetic game. I think that was the only pick I lost, and it was over five minutes into the game.

You thought the Bears were going to win? I did. I was like, new coach bump. Definitely. They figured out Caleb just getting rid of the ball fast. They were way worse than they were under Matt Eberflus. Think about that. They looked way worse. They should have brought Eberflus back. They would have had a better performance. Well, it's like Eberflus leaves, the defense probably gets worse, and then you promote the guy running the offense, and now you have a different person running the offense. Right.

gets messy quick. Did you get suckered by that though? Yeah. The locker room was so excited about the new guy and they're going to be ready to play. They were so bad in that game. Well, that was like when Antonio Pierce got the job and they were smoking cigars after the first win. And then within nine months, Devante Adams is like, give me the fuck out of here. I'm glad you brought that up. Put up with the cigars. Because like I have landed on this take and I say it all, never hire an interim coach. I don't care what happens. The interim coach is you,

You get out of a miserable marriage. You're just so pissed. And the next girlfriend you meet, you fucking marry her. You don't take her to Cabo. You marry her. It never works out. Have her fling. Do it. Fine. She made me tune this out. It was incredible. Watch the Saints win a couple more games. And they'll be like, I don't know. Darren Rizzi gets them to compete. Don't hire Darren Rizzi. Do respect him. The only interim coach who actually should have been hired was Pit Boss Rich, the Raiders guy.

Oh, Rich Persuccia, whatever. Oh, Visaccia. Yeah, Visaccia. Special teams coach. Pit boss Rich. He'd come in with like, all right, guys, I'll be back in 20. Damn right. Changing out 200, their car. They were in the playoffs that time. Yeah, like pit boss Rich. And then now he's the special teams coach again. But no, don't ever hire the interim coach. You're marrying the fling after the marriage. It's terrible. My dream is Drake May, year two. Yeah. Vrabel, Brian Dayball, offensive coordinator.

Let's go. Who do you want to receive? It's not a head coach opening though, Bill. What are you talking about? Well, there might be if we lose these last four games. The problem is we're going to go to Arizona and he's probably going to throw for like 360 and beat Arizona and then Mayo will keep his job. Do you want a tackle or a wide receiver in the draft?

Thanks for asking. Because I've obviously studied a lot. My dad is now wading into the draft waters as well. Just finding out about this TMAC character, this wide receiver. It doesn't feel like they're going to be a top five team, but there's no top five left tackle, which sets us up for the trade down, which I'd feel great about.

If we had an owner that wasn't 83 years old and we had an actual GM and not an interim GM. But it feels like they have to trade back. I'm in the camp of, I would take Hunter if we had the third pick. Really? If he's there.

He just seems like he's going to be a superstar. I'm going to change my mind on this a hundred times, but like, it just seems like sometimes these guys get in the draft and everybody's just like, that guy's special. And he just seems like that guy's special guy. You could have said this about Marvin Harrison last year though. And he hasn't turned into the best special, but there's no left tackle. This is the one draft where there's like no, even like a Joe alt. Yeah. Probably not one worthy of a top three pick. No. Who's the defensive line guy.

There's like an awesome defensive tackle. That's another one. When it goes wrong to have an awesome defensive tackle, it's like...

Craig, have you had some takes on where Shador is going to go? I mean, he certainly feels like a Raider to me. The father-son Vegas thing feels like a Raider. It's a perfect fit. It's so Raiders-y. What if the Giants get the number one pick? Because the worst fit of all time is the Mara family and the Sanders family. Oh my God. Not at all. But what if they get the number one pick and he's the guy? Raiders feels perfect. The Giants might get it though.

Well, they almost screwed it up yesterday and then the kicker missed. There was a conspiracy theory that Shador was tweeting, thank you, Lord, every time the Raiders lost because he wanted to go to the Raiders. It happened for 11 weeks. It was perfect. Even when they were on a bye, he didn't tweet it that week. But the Raiders...

I think one, and then he tweeted it. And so it turns out not true. But there was a while there where I was like, Shador and Dion are angling to get to Vegas. It is the most fun destination for those guys. Yeah. Because the team's a disaster every year anyway. So we might as well have the same. And Bowers is sitting right there now. Like he already has a stud. And like, let's just have a carnival. Make Dion the coach. Why not? Have Shador be the quarterback. It'd be great content. I had somebody who knows stuff tell me about the Pats.

Like if that job did become available, they were like, they said, you know, it's actually like a destination job now. Cause yeah.

because of Drake May. I was like, I need a cigarette. Six to midnight, Bill. Just give me a lighter. I just need a cigarette. I just want to reflect this. But I think with Vegas, the fun part would just be having some sort of personality with that franchise. Well, we had it in Pierce. Like, that's the guy. We smoked cigars. I won a Super Bowl. But he just looks miserable now because they hired the interim coach. You don't do that. Right. Can't do it. I like your theory. Thank you.

All right. I'm going A, A minus, B plus. Kyle Brands, great to see you as always. Thanks, Craig. Pleasure. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jacoby and Goldsberry. Thanks to Kyle and Craig. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti and Jesse Lopez. Thanks to Gahow and Jack. Thanks to you guys for making it through our second podcast of the week. I'm going to have another one on Thursday.

I'm going to have an NBA six pack. I'm going to have million dollar picks. I'm going to have a guest. Stay tuned. Get ready to buckle up. I'll see you on Thursday.

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