"No One's EVER Seen This" James O’Keefe BREAKS Epstein Files, FBI RAID Plot & Project Veritas Split | PBD Podcast / Ep. 591
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This is not public. Someone inside the United States government gave that to you. That's correct. The FBI pointed guns at me and took my reporter's notebooks. Because I have to call my lawyer. And the moment that I unlock my phone, they snatch the phone out of my hand because I unlocked the phone. Now the FBI has access to all of my signal messages. Do you know what's in my signal messages?

all the people in the government that come to me with information. And then they raid your house. Correct. That is the justification for the raid against James O'Keefe. So they can do whatever they want. That's a question that Dan Bongino and Kash Patel need to answer. They need to answer. If you want something that is revolutionary breakthrough, it's Diddy because he's alive.

What is the thing that needs to be on video in your mind? Oh, it's very easy for me. Tell me. I've never, ever talked about it on any podcast ever. Just the first time. I commit to you that I will do this. This is also very dangerous, wouldn't you admit, to do these stories? Well, you subscribe to this lifestyle. I almost feel like they're concerned that I'm going to record them trying to bribe me, which I would. Of course. Of course.

Oh, he is. Oh, you got to be kidding me. Yes, he is. Positive.

I'm certain of it, yes. We're live right now, though. We're live. Yeah. So he is part of the Skako family. Correct, yes. So, okay, folks, first of all, if you're tuning in, James, the last time we sat down was February of 2022, roughly three and a half years. Yes. Obviously, nothing's happened since then for you. Life's been the same. It's been normal. Boring. Everything's going good. But last night, you sent me this documentary. Yes.

and I'm leaving town, so I'm going out of the country. And I said, listen, let's see if we can do a podcast before we leave. And then last night, I sit there, I'm going through, it's called The Truth of Project Veritas Part 1 that just came out this week. And the more I'm watching it, I'm like, you got to be, so this is what happened here. Because originally, when the whole scandal took place, everyone was like, oh, you know what, James O'Keefe,

What was he up to? He was spending money. He was doing this. He was taking helicopter rides. He was taking one too many Ubers and black cars and all this stuff. This is what you kind of see in your apology letter. But walk us through what happened with Project Veritas. Thank you for having me. This film I've released, The Truth Inside Veritas, takes you inside of Project Veritas, which fired me two and a half years ago.

And it shows you what happened at the board meeting where they were throwing all these grievances out at me. You hear the grievances, you see, you meet the employees and you meet this, this board member in federal court because they sued me. So they fired me and definitely suspended me without pay, AKA terminated me. So I just started a new organization called OMG O'Keefe meeting group, which I've been doing. And then they sued me to try to shut OMG down.

So in this deposition footage, in the videotapes from federal court, depositions are public proceedings. I took the depositions, I put them in the movie, and you see what happened. And it's an insane story. It's a crazy story. Yeah, so the events, the sequencing of the events, which is kind of weird, is when you got the big Pfizer, one of the directors that talks about what they were doing, Rob, if you want to go through the timeline,

So the sequencing was kind of weird. When you first are, I want to see if I got the dates here or not. Let me see. Yeah, right there. January 2023. You know, we hear about the, under your leadership, release an undercover video featuring a man identified as Jordan Tristan Walker. This is the one that he's running out.

This is the biggest story ever. This is the biggest story, guys, at the peak. The director, the mRNA director of scientific research at Pfizer talking about mutating the virus at Pfizer. This video was viewed an insane amount of times. I confront this guy, if you remember this, I confronted him with a microphone and he physically assaulted me. That's right, I remember that. And he took the iPad out of my hand and he smashed it on the ground. This is the gay date, the gay guy at Pfizer.

YouTube took it down. It's still on X. And he's talking about directed evolution at Pfizer, something that Pfizer denies. But he says it. He's a director at the company. And we released this video. And I confirm in a restaurant in New York City.

And a week later, I was removed from Project Veritas. So conspiracy theories were abound. Did Pfizer bribe somebody? Did they put pressure on people? This is the guy, Jordan Walker. There he is right there.

Change your music. I remember this guy. Yeah, this is a Yale-educated doctor, director, high up within Pfizer Pharmaceutical. And there he is freaking out. Grabbed the iPad out of my hand. My cameraman had to, in self-defense, push him away because he was physically assaulting me. You can probably find a better video there. Oh, there's the one of him undercover. Click on that.

Pfizer ultimately is thinking about mutating COVID, the undercover journalist asked. And he said, well, that is not what we say to the public. No, no, no. Don't tell this to any. Don't tell anybody what I'm telling you. Promise me you won't tell anybody. Can we hear the audio of this guy saying this, Rob? Go back a little bit. Yeah, this part. I hope there's no Titanic music in the background, but go ahead.

Not sure if you have audio on the clip. And James, while he's looking for this, how in the world can you expose something like this, this guy, plain and simple, and then nothing happens? Like nothing happens. To him or to me? Let's stay on this. Let's stay on this. So while this is happening, while this is happening, this is being released. Do you have the audio, Rob, or no? I do. Let's see.

Our undercover journalist asked. So you're on a date with him or somebody else's on a date with him? COVID vaccines are ineffective against virus variants.

What he said is disturbing. Listen to this. We're exploring, like, you know how the virus keeps mutating? Yeah. Well, one of the things we're exploring is, like, why don't we just mutate ourselves so we can possibly develop new vaccines, right? So we have to do that. If we're going to do that, though, there's a risk of, like, as you could imagine, no one wants to be having a pharma company mutating vaccines.

Yeah. Okay. So we're like, do we want to do this? So that's like one of the things we're considering. Okay. Like the future, like maybe like create new versions of the vaccines and things like that. Okay. So Pfizer ultimately is thinking about... So now to the audience who may not remember this. Okay. We reacted to this multiple times. Okay. But...

How high ranking of a person is it? Pretty high. Okay. At the time when I released this, the mainstream media were like, well, we don't know if that's really a Pfizer director. They denied that this guy was who he was.

I got internal Microsoft Teams messages from sources within Pfizer that confirmed he was who he said he was. He's a director. High up in the company, two below the chief executive officer. And, yeah, high-ranking guy. Okay. So when that happens, you release that. What happens? Give me the sequencing of what happens with Project Veritas trying to fire you. There are 25 employees. Yeah.

That turned against you. What happened then? Yeah, so this was released January 26, 2023. January 25th, pardon me. The confrontation was released the very next day in Brooklyn. It was filmed in a pizza restaurant in Brooklyn. And then I was, board meeting was on February the 6th.

where they brought in a six and a half hour grievance session out of 75 employees, about 12 employees spoke with these grievances, which is what you watched in the documentary.

And then on February the 10th, they indefinitely suspended me without pay, a.k.a. fired me from Project Veritas. Now, the claims they made is you fired a CFO and you fired, is it Hinckley or what's his person? Yes, Barry Hinckley. Barry Hinckley. So he was the chief strategy officer, if I'm not mistaken. Correct. So walk me through what their concern was. Because you don't have the right to fire the CFO or the chief strategy officer. Like, I'm the CEO, the founder. What do you mean I can't fire you? They said that it was wrong for me to fire the chief financial officer. Who is they? The board? The board.

the board, these individuals that you saw on the film, right? They, uh, it's got the, their names, Matthew Tiermond, George Skakel,

other individuals who no one knows their names, Joe Barton, but these board members said, James does not have the authority. And it turns out I did have the authority. And the chief financial officer sent me a message on February the 2nd saying, we're going to have an emergency board meeting to remove you, James O'Keefe, as CEO. I was like taking off on an airplane at the time. I was like, this is the twilight zone. I said, what are you going to say to the public?

Do you have a press release written? They said, no, the public doesn't need to know. So for me, it was like, are you kidding me? Like this was like the twilight zone. Were they using counsel to threaten you to follow every order they were giving you or else? Is that kind of what they were doing to you? Intimidation or no? No, it was just a...

Well, it's it this is the story of what this is such a crazy story. They weren't threatening me. They were just informing me that they were going to remove me as a CEO of the company. So my my number three guy saying we're going to remove you and restructure the company. I said, OK, you're fired. This is not going to happen. I'm not going to let you I'm not going to let you do this because it's going to destroy the organization if you do this.

And this is the phone call we're having as the airplane is taking off from Nashville, excuse me, to Nashville on February the 2nd. All of this is in this film I just released. You can hear some of the audio of what transpired. And then they have this board meeting on the 6th. That's Monday, February the 6th, 2023. Some a week or so after you just video you just watched. And and that's where you had this bizarre event.

struggle session, Maoist struggle session where they brought, they marched in employees and it was almost like employees went on strike.

And so we don't like James O'Keefe. He's a mean boss. He works us too hard. And they have these weird grievances. And you could hear all the grievances. Yeah, one time apparently you ate an eight-month pregnant woman's sandwich, which she later on came back and talked about. Yes. The pregnant lady said it didn't happen. Yeah, she said it didn't happen. But they literally said you ate an eight-month pregnant woman's sandwich. I stole a pregnant woman's sandwich.

I took Barry Hinckley say took a black SUV is around he said you shouldn't be transporting the CEO around like this. A bunch of really strange accusations which never made a sense to anybody anybody watching this is insane.

And questions are, how could this happen? Why could this? So many things to dive into here about what went down. So on George Skakel, Rob, if you can pull this up. Now, the George Skakel I keep pulling up is Ethel Kennedy's father. Ethel Kennedy married RFK, Bobby Kennedy's father, the gentleman.

AG who got assassinated. So you're saying that George Skakel family is related to the George Skakel that was one of the board members. Yes. To be clear, Ethel Kennedy, the Kennedys and the Skakels are two famous families. Kennedy's Democrats, Skakel's Republicans. Ethel Kennedy is the mother of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.,

This same Ethel Kennedy is the aunt of that man right there, George Skakel. So they are in fact related. So they are in fact related. Okay, so George Skakel. One, when the conversation comes about at the end of the documentary, when he says, hey, you can never have a house like this. Is it all about money? How much money do you make? Is it all about money for you? Yeah, I bet you can never have a house like that. And it's got a nice house that's to the side. How did he make his money? Um...

That's not exactly clear to me, but his father's grandfather founded a company. I forgot the name of the company. Big company. Probably find it online here. Was it Carbide or Union Lake Carbide? Some type of coal processing company.

So it's generational money. So it's like a third generation, fourth generation money. Correct. Okay, I got it. So when he said the – when they asked the question and they said, so how much money did James O'Keefe steal or whatever the question was? And he said $785,023. So $785,023. Yes.

And he asked the question, so how'd you come up with that number? I can't tell you. What was he talking about? He literally just made it up under oath. He was flippant. It's a remarkable piece of footage. He's under oath. This is a federal deposition.

Your audience might be asking, how can O'Keefe play courtroom videos? Depositions aren't under seal, meaning they're public proceedings. It's videotaped. He's under oath in a federal courtroom proceeding. And the attorney asks, you allege that James O'Keefe owes you money or stole money. How much did James steal? Right here. He has it. He found it. Watch this clip. I'm interested to know how much James O'Keefe owes you. Yeah, sorry.

Playback speed to normal. There you go. Watch this. $785,000.23. How did you arrive at that figure? With a very, very complicated algorithm I cannot reveal because it's confidential. And it's based on the employment agreement? Obviously, it looks very honest here. How many violations did you identify? 27. 27 violations in the employment agreement? And that led you to what figure? I just told you I'm not repeating my answer.

Is that analysis in your documents? No, it's not. Is it done in your head? Partially. Where else? Well, I'm not allowed to disclose that. I mean, these people were just impeaching all of their credibility. Okay, so this guy, George Skakel, when he's saying that,

Prior to them coming after you, you dropped the Pfizer thing. It talks about four companies he's invested in. One of them, I don't know how many of them was Pharma. What was his link? If there is any theories to say, well, the reason why he did this is because they got a phone call saying this. What are some speculations that you have that caused them to want to fire you right after the biggest story you guys ever dropped?

with Project Veritas. Well, there was another clip in the deposition. You could pull it up here in a minute, but he says that these companies could, this is his quote, could be sold to Pfizer. That's right. That's what he says. And these companies, now when you're in a nonprofit organization that investigates these things,

We have to sign a conflict of interest policy. And this is very important in my business, infinitely more important than any other business. If you have financial investments in these companies, you have to disclose that. I did not know this, but every one of my board members were co-investing in these companies without my knowledge. They were soliciting money from each other to put into these companies to

And I didn't know it until I got to this lawsuit. And this is an ongoing lawsuit. He found it. This is the clip. If you want to play that clip, Rob, about three or four companies, you just had it. Go for it. The only thing that has changed is that we broke the biggest story in our organization's history. It was a story that was so big.

that it was a combination of the board thinking they finally could do this without James O'Keefe, but also maybe some conflicts of interest per their own words. Is it fair to say that three of the four companies you've invested in you would consider to be in the medical field? Or Petrogen could be sold to a big pharma. Like Pfizer. Like Pfizer. You agree with me, what, Pfizer could be a candidate for... Maybe, potentially, yeah, I mean, you know...

I think if I was a banker, you'd be crazy not to let Pfizer know that it was available. Yeah, it turns out I was up against all these people who were financially aligned. We can pause it right there, Ron. Yeah, so three or four companies. James, the board members that you had, if you can give a one, how did you find them? Two, profile, because if I'm on your board,

And you're having to raise $2 million a month because this thing takes a lot of work. The whole $24 million you were talking about, they said, well, we want you to stop raising money. How the hell do you want the company to run if we can't raise the money? That's precisely right. Yes. So if you bring these guys in, don't they have to be 100% locked in to realize who you are? Yes.

Everybody knows what you're going to do and what you're not going to do. You're an acorn guy. When you drop that whole acorn story, going to an event with an underage hooker that you showed up to as a pimp. Awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on in. Come on in. Come on in. And I think you were with Breitbart at that time, if I'm not mistaken. That's right. Yes. Don't these guys who are part of your board members know anything?

Who they have as the product that they're marketing? The problem was nobody was willing to be on my board. The people that I trusted and respected the most said, I can't be on your board. I'll write you a hundred thousand dollar check. I'm just not going to be on the board. This is a nonprofit tax deductible money. Someone even wrote us a half a million dollar check, but he says, I can't be on your board because I, you know, it's too risky for me. The liabilities, Pat, the liabilities of what I do approach infinity. Yeah.

I've been sued dozens of times. There's no, at least not yet, I hope to make it sustainable and profitable. There's no profit in this. You can't become wealthy doing this. Why? Because you get sued so much.

And the legal fees on the balance sheet, the liabilities always outweigh the assets. So you have to be a little nuts, at least in the right way, to do this. You're fully nuts. No, you are. You're qualified to be a little nuts. In certain ways, I am. But the problem is self-interest is a very powerful motivator for people. And the instinct for self-preservation is extremely powerful. So when you get raided by the FBI, which we were in 2021, a year before this happened, and you're getting sued by everybody...

The problem is, is if you're not messianic, if you're not mission driven, you'll corruption. Why would you let them be on your board? So that was my mistake. That was my mistake. I did not discern this. And I and I had a founder's board. I knew these guys from 10 years prior. Right. When I was scrapping, when I had nothing and they were willing. So so the mistake that I made is they were willing to be on the board. And I said, OK, OK.

And I couldn't find anybody. The hardest thing about what I do. How many do you need? What's that? How many board members do you need? 501c3s require a minimum of three, but you really should have five optically. How many did you have at the peak? I had three at Project Veritas, 501c3, and then I had three at 501c4, and they combined the boards when they did this. They just put everyone on the same board. So six. That's an even number, though. Is it...

Is it a six equal voting or the one that votes on a 501C4 doesn't have influence over the 501C3? There were only three board members when they did this, and it was a two-to-one vote. Just a two-to-one vote. Who was the one?

Well, I was the third board member, so I was opposed, of course, to this. So it was T. Armand and Garvey, John Garvey. And then they combined the other board, which was George Skakel and Joe Barton and a man named Steve Alemik, who's now deceased. So it became four to one. It became five to one. Five to one. Okay, so profile of those guys. Excuse me, four to two, when Steve Alemik voted against it. He's the one that passed away. Correct. So he was with you. He actually committed suicide.

You can't make this stuff up. It was a four to two vote when they combined the boards and they voted to indefinitely suspend. He committed suicide? Correct. What was the timeline of when he committed suicide? Um...

It was within the year after this happened. And is there any stories of why he came? Is it not related to this event? This event caused so much trauma that he just didn't want to deal with it? I don't know. It may be unrelated. I don't know. Okay, maybe unrelated. Of the four board members that were against you, we just learned a little bit about Skakel. Can you tell us a little bit about the other three? Absolutely. And there should be some clips in this film.

To back up what I'm saying, as you know, I like to make factual statements. Matthew Tiramond was the number one orchestrator, the top guy. And I want to take you through a little bit of each of these guys. Matt Tiramond, I was on a boat in the Bahamas, Pat, about eight, nine years ago with a big, big supporter, big philanthropist. And he said to me, you have to be aware of this man. I said, why? He said, because this man is incredibly jealous of you, James. And he wants to be you.

You need to get him off your board. Now, at the time, I didn't know what that meant. I was like, oh, what does that mean? He admires me. I didn't have any life experience to inform me what could happen to someone who wants to be you. But apparently people saying this guy was very envious. He wanted to, you know, to to to be me or to have what I have, whatever that we could talk about that. That's Matthew Tiermont, the guy who orchestrated everything.

And there are some insane, pornographic, obscene messages he sent me. Now, Matthew Tierman was soliciting the board members to put money into his companies, that he was his for-profit Wall Street. He worked on Wall Street. He has an economics degree from the University of Chicago. His father was a famous Polish anti-communist dissident.

A lot of these guys had fathers who were wealthy and famous. So one theory is that they lived in the shadow of their fathers. We could talk more about him in a minute. There's George Skakel, who we've been talking about. There's a man named Joseph Barton. There's federal deposition clips of him in the film.

Joe Barton said some pretty crazy things in his deposition. He said, I'm not entitled to a private life. So these guys were publishing messages about my personal life with my girlfriend. There's a man named John Garvey who is about to be deposed. He hasn't yet been deposed. And then there's Steve Alembic who committed suicide. Those are the board members.

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Of the four, how many of them have you had communication with since they fired you? These guys have been obsessively, I mean obsessively, posting and tweeting on X about me nonstop for the last two years. Crazy stuff. Demonic stuff.

You wouldn't even believe me unless I pulled it up on the screen. One of the ones, which one was the one that kept texting you, I love you, listen, I feel so bad about what's going on, and then afterwards, you're a motherfucker, you know, all this stuff. So how often did that happen? Was that board members or were those employees? You're referring to in the film, these are some of the employees. Now again, at Project Garners, people don't realize when I came on your show, we had like 65, 70 employees. That's a lot of people. Yeah.

And you saw about 12 or so were acting in this demonic way. You're referring to a couple of the younger employees who were behaving like this. So they came in the boardroom. They said, O'Keefe's a mean boss. He yelled at me one time. He's a power drunk tyrant. And then a week later, they would send me an Instagram. I'm so sorry. I feel horrible for what I did. I never should have done this. And then like a few months later, they're calling me...

I can't even say it on the air, but horrible, you know, expletive words on DMs. So now are you at a point that, because to us when it happened, the first thing I said is, I don't know what Project Veritas is without O'Keefe. And I know they don't like to hear that. You know, a lot of times people think, you know, certain organizations can get the same kind of results without the face. Right.

most companies can survive without a face. Most companies could. And you're like, oh my God, Apple will never make it without Steve Jobs. Apple goes from a $100 billion auto company when Steve Jobs dies. Tim Cook did a great job. It's a $3 trillion auto company. He 30X what Steve Jobs had, right? But this is a small nonprofit that, like when I said you're crazy enough to do stuff like this, the average person doesn't wake up saying, let me go expose Pfizer in the middle of all the shit that's going on. Let me go expose Acorn and have...

The guy I work with suddenly have a heart attack that nobody knows what's going on. And then Michael Cormier, who is the leading investor, I don't know what role he had. And then he all of a sudden dies and they don't know what he died from. They're saying arsenic poisoning in the L.A. coroner's office. The average person doesn't want to do your job. The average person just wants to consume the content you create. So Project Veritas, we saw one of the recent clips. And the most common question everybody asks is, wait a minute.

Why is it say Veritas and OMG, right? O'Keefe Media Group. What was that all about? Are you at a point right now where Veritas is coming back under you or not yet? Yeah, so they're on the verge of bankruptcy. When I was raising $2 million a month,

24 million dollars a year it's a a lot of money to raise as a non-profit remember there's no annuities you have to ask people for money constantly and when they got rid of me the donations just stopped everybody wanted their money back and in that board meeting i had one trump card because these guys were it was like a struggle session they just wanted to make me feel abused it was a lot of envy and just petty human things that this is not unique it happens in a lot of organizations but to your point

What are they going to do if they get rid of the guy who's raising all the funds? They didn't have an answer and they didn't care. Now, in the movie, I noticed your producer had that 54 minute movie. If you can find this moment where it's about three quarters of the way through towards the end of that board meeting. That's the guy, Matthew Tiramon. You just saw him on the screen right there. There was a quote that's incredibly important. And I said, point of order, what are you guys going to do?

Because that's the trump card I had. What's your plan? Okay, you want to lash me. You want to crucify me. You want to make me feel abused. And Tierman says something, and I hope he can pull it up, that same guy, he goes, we have 65 employees. We're going to be fine without James O'Keefe. They actually believed, or they wanted to believe. Not for a product like this. But you see, that's so interesting about human nature, isn't it? Because when you're that envious, when you're that resentful, when you're that deluded,

Cut.

There it is. So they actually believed that there wouldn't be any lost output on the margins. Literally the exact opposite happened. Every donor wanted their money back. Nobody trusted anything they had to say. Now they believed, but content is king. Our journalism matters. But the problem, what they failed to understand is investigative journalism is all about trust. And if you behave like this, nobody's going to trust anything that you report.

And I think that's what they failed to understand. But Matthew Tiramont actually believed that Project Veritas didn't need James O'Keefe anymore. So they also apparently lost 200,000 followers, like within days of us, you know, the audience finding out that you're no longer tied to them. So even the Veritas account, I don't know what it was, but I saw somewhere that they lost a couple hundred thousand followers as well. So what number did that $24 million go down to?

The revenue, you mean? Yes. Zero. Negative equity. There was one individual, I can't name the donors under the Freedom of Association under the First Amendment, but one donor said, I want my $1 million check back. The chief financial officer said, it's unlawful for us to return your check. That's not true. The donors wanted their money back, so they went deeply into debt. So when I left, there was somewhere around $10 million in cash and no debt left.

No debt. And now they're like $2 million in debt with no cash. Is it going to come back to you? Is that where you are? Eventually. And your audience might be wondering, well, why can't O'Keefe talk about the specifics of the negotiations? Because I promised the court...

I won't, and I'm a man of my word. On settlement negotiations, you can't talk about the details. I can talk about the proceedings. That's public. I just can't talk about the details of the so-called settlement, the talks of acquiring or getting the information back. All I can tell you is that I'm in talks to reacquire Project Veritas. When you put that Project Veritas on the back of that most recent video that you did, why did you do that?

Because we had filmed a video in front of that brick wall, brick wall backdrop. We literally brick by brick rebuilt the Project Veritas studio here in West Palm Beach, Florida, where I now live.

because I was about to imminently about to announce that I'm reacquiring Project Veritas. Oh, so it wasn't finalized yet. So did you have permission from them to use that? Can you use that? Was that a conversation you had with them? There's no trademark of the logo. In fact, I've applied for the trademark myself.

So I'm allowed to use it. Okay. I'm allowed to report. The same reason I'm allowed to report on the court proceedings for sure. Well, I mean, look, the work you do and did is not everyone's work. It's not something everyone wants to do nor can do in the manner that you do it because you...

Stay poised and calm in the moments that you're in. And you get in the faces of people yet still stay respectful. That's not easy for people to do. Because some people in that moment, they get so emotional. And then they don't know how to calm down. You stay calm.

So you can't even train somebody to be like that. You either have it or you don't have it. One can get better, but you can't just train someone and say, why can't you do what O'Keefe does? It's not a skill set. It can teach anybody. So hopefully to go to that direction, because I think your job is a very important job to move on. Is there anything else you want to tell the audience before we move on from this story? Because obviously we're going to put the link below to go watch a documentary. Yeah. But any final thoughts on this story? Uh,

A couple of things. Number one, you can watch the movie O'Keefe Media Group dot com. It's nine dollars. People say, why are you charging for journalism? Well, most of the most of the journalism I don't charge for. But I think this movie is incredibly cinematic. I know you watched it yesterday. It's it's an incredible experience. And it's a really story about human nature. This is about human nature.

How do I build an organization? It's not really a business. I mean, it is a business, but it's a mission. How do you create a sustainable entity, a team of people going after the most powerful people in the world, which I will continue to do? We're about to talk about Epstein, all these other things I'm doing right now. How do you build that without it getting corrupted, without people...

lying about you to the FBI to protect their families, right? These are really hard questions that I haven't yet fully figured out yet. I'm learning. I'm experimenting. Nobody does this. So I'm trying to create a sustainable organization that can do it at scale.

And to be fired from the company that I created and to build something from nothing, you mentioned in the film, George Cagle says, you can't afford my house. That statement said so much about him, didn't it? Anybody who says that you can't afford my house. It I don't know if you can play that all the way at the end. This is the thing that actually struck people of all the things in the film. It's the very last like thing that happens in the movie.

This really struck people. And it says so much about the character of these people. It's about like 30... Yeah, they're literally standing... That's right there, right there. Play it. They're loyal to each other. George, were you an investor in the same company as Matt Kierman? Some of them. You didn't disclose that. But I wasn't an investor in the companies while I was on your board. While you were on the board?

Yes, I think I was on the board then. You weren't? No. When did you become an investor? After I left your board. Is that right? How much did you invest in each of Matt Tierman's companies? I don't think that's any of your business. I think it is. How much did you... We have a disagreement.

Are you refusing to answer the question? Yes. I want to talk about your investments in medical companies. I want to talk about you. How much money did you spend on private helicopters? I wasn't particularly concerned about the financial stuff. There is no reason for me to disclose anything. My personal investments? Yes. That's ridiculous. Well, you said you're a businessman and Pfizer could be a buyer. What did you mean by that?

what did you invest in businesses that's not news it's about making that's how i made yeah it's all about making money isn't it how do you think i paid for this is it all about money too bad you can't afford that there it is right there so you're a liar yeah well it's all about money isn't it it's all about money

Because I'm not a business guy. It's all about money, isn't it? This was one of my closest associates. It was almost like an uncle to me. And unfortunately, Pat, I think I would say the last comment is, I don't know whether the commercial imperative, the profit-making mechanism, is compatible with absolute truth-telling. When I watched the people closest to him, I mean, this guy was an uncular figure. His wife was like my second mother.

And money just unfortunately tends to corrupt. So that's a deeper, more philosophical concept. I just wanted to get that out and tell you that I'm working on it. And I think the solution is to find really strong people with really strong convictions who are not for sale.

And unbreakable. And if I can surround myself with those types of people, I think we'll be okay. That's a perfect transition into the one video clip, Rob, if you can, about your life. Right? We've all seen this clip. Vinny, you love this clip. I love it. Rob, is there music in this one? I think there is, right? I believe there is. Is it going to be okay to play it with the music? As long as we comment. Okay, go for it. It's on YouTube Shorts without music, too, whichever your preference is. What is the message of it, Rob? If the price isn't your life. Then you're for sale. Yep.

Let me see if I can find it on YouTube without the music. See if you can find it. It's YouTube Shorts. It's without music. I mean, the music adds a... It adds something to it. You feel like you want to cry. Yeah. There it is. Is that the one? That's it without music. Okay, go for it, Rob. Is it $10 million? Go back to the beginning because you clipped out the first two seconds. What is your price? There you go. Is it $10 million? Is it $20 million? Is it $100 million? What is your price? Because if your price is not your life...

Then you are for sale If your price is not your life, then you are for sale So if you're gonna be a truth teller your price has to be your life I can't surround myself with people whose price is not their life because the enemy whatever the enemy is whether it be physical legal spiritual will will will attack the vulnerability of the person who can be compromised so you get real spiritual real fast and

if you're going to do this type of work. What is your price? James, and I've seen this multiple times. I've shared it with people. We've played it on the podcast. I think what you're doing, you're hands down the best journalist. You don't give a shit. You even said right now that you're not in the... What money are you making from exposing the truth? I know it's going to be...

Damn near impossible to trust every single person because what you said about the money situation. But in regard to this video, James, with the price of your life, has anybody, I'm pretty sure they have, approached you of any people of power that have tried to offer? Maybe a Soros, maybe somebody to tell you like, James, shut up. Here's money. We'll give you this. Disappear. Leave us alone. It's a very interesting question.

Yeah, this one, and I remember, Vin, you DMed me. I appreciate that very much. You were very touched by this. Yeah, big time. At the time, people were, you could hear the murmurs in the crowd. These are men twice my age. Yes. Just a simple statement. They're like, whoa, what a concept. Whoa. Yeah. I mean, this is not, you know, these are, there have been a couple times in meetings where people have, the closest thing I could say was a person of wealth would ask me to do something.

And I would say, I can't, I can't, this is not an exchange of goods and services. I can't do something in exchange for you paying me to do it. That's not how I work as a journalist. I have to operate impartially without fear.

And when the person realized where I was coming from, they kind of backed off. They're like, oh, no, that's okay. I almost feel like they're concerned that I'm going to record them trying to bribe me, which I would. Of course, that's who you are. So when they realized, when they danced on that precipice and they realized where I was coming from, I think they realized, oh, Keith could expose me.

And to their credit, they back off. And there's that interesting dance where they're maybe they're in their minds trying to corrupt me, but they then realize I could expose them. Yeah. So there's been that. Yeah. So, so, you know, you hear a message like that with life and, you know, your life's on the line and some of the stories you pursue. Now, here's the thing. Politically, James, what would you say you are politically? Yeah.

I don't even know anymore. I say the truth. I did a story on Pam Bondi. That's exactly what I'm doing with this. I took a hit. I think I tell stories by way of example because I think it's better than abstractions. I did a story on the Attorney General of the United States. That was hard for me because I don't dislike her or like her. It's not about whether I like someone or dislike them. It's about whether the public has a right to know the information I'm exposing.

I tend to have been branded as a conservative only because I felt the legacy media in the last decade and two decades has been

not telling the truth. And if you do tell the truth, then you're branded as a right winger. But I don't even know what these terms mean anymore. I really don't know what it means to be a liberal or conservative anymore. Do you? I don't understand. I think conservative values are pretty clear. I think liberal values are not today. They're confused. But conservative values, family, country, America first,

Making sure we're not going for nonsense wars where people's kids are fighting a war that's unnecessary because somebody's making money on the back end and deals are getting done. Faith, freedom of speech. Those are conservative values, right, that I would say they're there. And watching you, I would say you have— Well, constitutionalists. I'm a very strong First Amendment, perhaps one could say absolutist, on the First Amendment, with some exceptions.

So I would say I believe in, for example, one of my values and virtues is I believe in equal justice before the law. I think the law should – I know that it's impossible, but we should try to emulate this. We should – the law should treat people equally. Some would say that's a conservative value, right? That's an American and quite conservative value. And I also believe in the freedom of speech issue.

And I'm an absolutist when it comes to that. Yeah, and where I'm going with this is the following. So video comes out because a lot of conservatives were told on day one, week one, you know, we're going to find out about Epstein, 9-11, MLK, John F. Kennedy. We're going to find all that stuff out. And we've been wanting it for a while to see what's going on with this, who's behind it, especially the last few years at a whole different level. And we're going to find out who the assassination attempt was. Was he tied to anybody? Was Thomas tied to anybody? Yeah.

And then we all see the same clip that you've seen, right? It's the clip with Bongino and Kash Patel. Yes, yes. If you can pull that clip up, Rob. And, you know, these are two men that almost anybody who knows, I think that's the one right there, almost anybody that knows them would call them patriots, right? Yeah. They've served their country. They've given their lives to the country. Dan has at the highest level, so has Kash Patel.

And then we see this clip here that throws a lot of people off. Go for it, Rob. You said Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide. People don't believe it. Well, I mean, listen, they have a right to their opinion, but as someone who has worked as a public defender, as a prosecutor who's been in that prison system, who's been in the Metropolitan Detention Center, who's been in segregated housing, you know a suicide when you see one, and that's what that was. He killed himself.

Again, you want me to... I've seen the whole file. He killed himself. I know it's hard work. You said... And you saw people that have done body language, you know, Dan looks uncomfortable saying what he's saying, the way he answered it. You can tell they've role-played that and, you know, now this is purely what people are speculating, right? And then you...

have this one clip with Pam Bondi. Correct. If you have the Pam Bondi one. I'd like to play that. So maybe walk us through what's going on here before we play. I don't know if you want me to narrate live as opposed to watching me on the screen narrate. What's better to do? Perhaps we go to the beginning of where you see Pam Bondi on the hidden camera. So I'll just talk live what I said on the camera. Okay. So there she is at the White House. Go back to the beginning of that clip of her at the White House. So...

That was a tough one for me to publish because I, I, I, you asked if I'm political and I think I'm, you know, you have to decide who you want to be. Are you a political operative or are you a journalist? And to be a journalist, it's hard because you have to do things like this. Pam Bondi was caught in a restaurant telling a stranger, a nanny,

on April 28th or so, that there are tens of thousands of videos involving little children. Now, I didn't target her. I didn't seek to get this. People send me stuff. Sometimes I've undercover people all over the country and they happen to get a conversation in an airport.

I get sent this. I'm like, holy shit. This is not public. The Attorney General of the United States, and by the way, Cash, I believe the FBI reports to her, so this is the top dog, is saying to a nanny...

in a restaurant, something that no one knows. And to me, I'm like, well, that's an interesting story, is it not? So I do what I have to do. I reach out to the attorney general's office for comment. I say, you know, Pam Bondi, the attorney general of the United States, was caught in a restaurant saying, and I actually wonder whether I should have done that. I probably did him a favor by giving them the exact quotes. And then...

A few days later, she says the exact same thing publicly that I emailed the Attorney General's office for comment saying and played the clip of her at the White House. This is what she's in.

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Thousands of videos of Epstein with children or child porn. Now this is the first time an official has publicly acknowledged that videos of Epstein and his victims exist.

What you may not know is just nine days prior, the Attorney General had a very similar conversation with a total stranger in a restaurant. Do you know when the Epstein files are going to get released? We hope soon. Okay. Any dates? No. You know what it is? There are tens of thousands. Hitting those? Yeah. And it's all with little pins. So they have to go through every line. Pause. Pause.

So it's interesting because she said it privately in a restaurant to publicly, publicly, publicly in a restaurant, not privately. And to me, it's like that's something something. So I felt like I had to publish this. Now, if she hadn't gone publicly and said this and I had released this clip in the restaurant, it would have been a much, much, much bigger deal. But it does raise questions, doesn't it?

Why is this? Why are they not being transparent with the American people? Why are they telling a nanny in a restaurant? So it raises questions to your point about cash. I know cash a little bit. I think he is a good man. I mean that I based upon what I know about him. I don't know Dan as much, but I also think he's a good man. I don't trust the bureaucracy that reports to them.

And if you put any good man and the most ethical person at the top of that bureaucracy, I think you're setting them up for failure. Let me give you a specific example of where I'm coming from. I was raided by the FBI shortly before I met you. The FBI pointed guns at me and took my reporter's notebooks. They just recently closed the case against me a few months ago. The FBI.

in February of this year. And they gave me back my phones that they had for three and a half years. When you get a search warrant to conduct a raid, you have to go to a judge, right, with a reason. Oh, we have this probable cause, the reasons why to raid. When you close a case, which is very rare for the FBI to execute a search warrant and not bring charges. It hardly ever happens.

You are required by law to give a copy of the probable cause. That is the reason why you conducted the raid. Guess what they did? They redacted every single word of the probable cause used to raid my newsroom. Every word. Maybe your producer can pull it up on Google or something. Every word. There's a black bar, Pat.

through. It's ridiculous. It's literally black bars. We're not talking about terrorists. We're not talking about Jeff Epstein. We're not talking about child molesters and drug traffickers. We're talking about James O'Keefe, the journalist. So if our FBI, our Attorney General's office, can't be transparent about why they raided a journalist's newsroom, why do we have any faith in

and the FBI to be transparent about these other, these other issues. That's where I'm coming from on this. And this is, this is this in regard to the Ashley Biden diary. Correct. This is it, right? Cause you exposed, cause somebody contacted you and told them that they found the diary of the daughter of the president, United States staying a bunch of stuff. And also claiming that her father showered her with her probably at inappropriate ages. And then they raid your house. Correct. Yeah. It's an affidavit. It's my, uh, go, go, go down, go down. Uh,

It's Roger Paradise journalist detained devices seized. This is not it, but it's on my X page. There's a there's a there's on page 47 of the affidavit. Every word is redacted. I mean, I I was enraged.

The AC, the American Civil Liberties Union, which is a liberal group, came to my defense. This is like this is crazy. You take if if another country like Ukraine or Russia or North Korea did this, our State Department would. So my point is, I don't have a lot of faith in these institutions. I just don't. What do you think happens when they get in?

That's what I want to know. Because to me, there it is right there. I apologize. I apologize. Could you just I apologize. Is that real? That's a real that's a real document. Can you zoom in, please? Well, it says probable probable cause justifying search of O'Keefe's person and premises. Every single word is redacted. They even redacted the footnote.

So this is insane. There's more of this. So they can do whatever they want and they don't have to show you why they came in your house. It's literally look at that. It's a violet. Look at this. Look at this. The whole thing. Keep going, Rob. Like, OK, I see what they did there.

Okay, wait, wait, wait. There's something unredacted. Read the bottom. What's the bottom? Read that. Based upon my... This is an FBI agent. I have learned, among other things, that cell phones are capable of sending emails. Great. Are you kidding me? I'm shocked they didn't redact that. This is not Saturday Night Live.

And then it goes on to the rest of the affidavit. But the previous three pages are the probable cause. That is the justification for the raid against James O'Keefe. And James, if you don't mind, what were they looking for? The diary? They weren't looking for the diary. They already had that. They had it.

What were they? Well, that's a loaded question. Were they really trying to do? Were they really trying to? They were really trying to get inside my cell phone because people in the government come to me with information, which as a reporter, I have a right to receive. And they don't like that. Of course. Now, if you think about it. Did you give them the password to your cell phone? This is another very interesting story. Because you know what happened with Ron Johnson, where when they walked up to his house and they took his phone.

And the rule of thumb, if you ever hand your phone over, you're not supposed to give the password. How did they get into your phone? This is a crazy story. They bang on the door, and it's the loudest pounding. You know it's the feds. You just know. And I go to the door. I'm like, I'm opening the door because they're going to shoot me. And then they open. They put me in handcuffs. I think I'm under arrest. They say, no, this is a search warrant.

I say I want to speak to my lawyer. I say over and over again I want to speak to my lawyer because I learned I was arrested 10 years prior. Don't talk to the FBI. Just don't, even if you're innocent.

They say, would you like to use the iPhone on your nightstand? I said, yes. And then I unlocked the phone because I have to call my lawyer. And the moment that I unlocked my phone, they snatched the phone, not get out of here. Holy shit. They snatched the phone out of my hand because I unlocked the phone. And then the FBI agent, like almost to torture me in front of me,

He goes to the settings and he changes the settings to make it not go to sleep. Wow. And then they put the phone in an evidence bag. Now the FBI has access to all of my signal messages. Do you know what's in my signal messages? All the people in the government that come to me with information. So the Department of Justice, this is the Biden Department, or the month before Trump was elected in 2020.

Excuse me. Biden was elected in 2020. Now they have access to all of my sources. So this is what's considered to be a constitutional raping because the American Bill of Rights have special protections for reporters. And you're talking to the only newsroom that has ever been raided by the FBI. We're the only ones that have ever been raided. And they did it just to get the information.

So what's behind all those black bars? I believe confidential FBI informants. Of course. People who lied to the FBI to set me up. So I could tell you so many war stories, guys, but you ask me questions about cash and Dan Bongino. They're great guys. I think they mean well. But if you put me in charge of the FBI, I wouldn't know what to do. I mean, how do you trust a bureaucracy like that? By the way, that is totally illegal.

You can't take a gun pointed against your forehead and say, give me your reporter's notebooks. If that happened in Eastern Europe, our State Department would be issuing sanctions against that country.

But it happened in New York. So, guys, one question, James. So they promised all this. Day one, we're going to do this. Day one, we're going to do that. What do you think happened? Meaning they're in now. Donald Trump is the president. He's told them, go ahead, you guys, do whatever you want. What? Who? Who?

Who makes a Pam Bondi, a Dan Bongino, a Kash Patel all of a sudden change their tunes and not release what we know because, James, at the end of the day, she even said tens of thousands, I'm assuming, James, is let's say 30,000 hours of

grown men having sex with children. And James, I don't know if you're familiar in the movie JFK, Jim Garrison says, and I quote, let justice be done though the heavens fall, which basically means going after truth, no matter how powerful the people and no matter what happens to the system. So what happens? What, what do you think they go in and who, who tells them you are not releasing any of this because our friends and blah, blah, blah are attached to it. I,

I don't know if anyone tells them. I mean, some have said they put you in a skiff. This is more of a, this is not a fact, this is speculation, but a funny notion that might illustrate what could happen is, you know, that image of JFK getting shot? Yes. Do they put the leaders in a skiff? That's a secure, compartmentalized information facility. Do they show the Zapruder film of JFK getting shot and said, you better do what we tell you to do?

Or that could be you. Now, I'm not saying they did that to these gentlemen. And I actually genuinely mean this. I've met Cash. I think he's a genuinely good man. I just don't. I think the system is institutionally corrupt. And everyone says, you know what they say to me, Pat? Oh, call Cash. He'll help you out. Call Bam. Call Pam. Like I got him on speed dial.

They're getting asked for 10,000 favors a day. I don't have any money to give them. The system is so broken when you need the guy at the top to be so influential. It's the system. It's the Article III judges. It's the courts. It's the line prosecutors. The agents in my apartment. Do you know that when the agents were in my apartment, I could tell by the looks on their faces that they didn't want to be there? They're like, this is crazy. This is wrong.

But they did it. Well, speculate a little bit. What do you think happens when they get in? Because they tend to change when they get in. Are you talking about the FBI agents? Anybody and everybody. The moment they get in, and the whole quote by Mario Cuomo, people campaign in poetry, but they govern in prose. Once they go in...

You know, they used to communicate and talk to you. Now the only way they talk to you is with emojis. You know, hey, when they were campaigning, they wanted to talk to you regularly. I want to come on the podcast. I want to do this. I want to do that. And then all of a sudden they're in. They're more quiet about it. Good question. What do you think happens when they get in? Politics. I'm working on a story right now.

One of the directors of the agency, they mean well, they go into FEMA or they go on the IRS. They have all these notions of freedom and prosperity and eliminating waste, fraud and abuse. But then they get in there and there's such snakes in these entities. Just, you know, I mean, D.C., it's a land of phonies and narcissists. They're not attracted to do the right thing. They want power and money and sex.

Are we under some delusion that the people in Washington want something other than power and money and sex? What percentage of the people in Washington inside these agencies are actually there to do the right thing? What percentage? For real. Are we naive and foolish enough to think that people are in these places? I think they start off wanting to do the right thing.

And then through peer pressure, they get forced to filter out their statesmen in them. Or there's a few people that are there who do the right thing, but there's so many snakes and manipulative. Look at what happened to me. Look why I'm on your show. I started my own institution because I didn't want to be part of the snakes. And the snakes infiltrate. And I think in some regards, it's human nature.

And this is a really good question you're asking. I'm learning in real time. I started an institution in

Because I didn't trust institutions, and then I'm removed from my own institution by snakes. Yeah. Hello, everyone. I'm James O'Keefe. Been doing this journalism thing for about 20 years. Truth, justice, exposing corruption, everything that comes along with it. If you want to connect with me, talk to me about any of this, you can connect with me through MNECT. You can see the QR code below. Look forward to hearing from you. Yeah, but what I want to know is,

You have a creative mind. Okay, go ahead. So let's say out of 100 people that get in there, okay, let's say 50 of them are in there because they're driven by power, fame, prestige, you know, narcissists, all that stuff. Okay, let's say...

20% get in because they're statesmen, they love America, they just really want to go out there and make a difference. Let's say 30% get in because they think it's a good job. It's like, it's a pretty good job. I'm going to go try it out and see what I can do. I'm going to go be a lawyer. Okay, the 50% are the ones that found a place where they can use their evil tendencies and do that. I understand what you're saying. But once the 20% gets in, the 20% are the ones that are getting in that I'm a statesman.

I love America. Got it. You know, it's bigger than this. What do you think happens for the 20 percenters to flip? What I think is you as you say, 20 percent statesman get in there, something like that. 20 percent is making up a number. I think that's accurate. I think that's accurate. I think there are probably 20 percent. I was probably embellishing. The problem is, is if you're an institution, you have leakers or one or two people at the top. All it takes is a couple.

that are sabotaging your campaign, that are leaking your confidential informants to the press, it completely sabotages your operation. So the problem in these institutions, if you don't have your team, which is like 100% loyal and high integrity, even a few of these snakes can destroy the entity.

So that is the problem in my view, is that you have a couple people at the top who are engaged in gaslighting, destructive campaigns. Maybe Bongino, here's another thing, they're getting fed information that is not true. And they're put in a position, an untenable situation.

Where it's difficult for them to be successful. That's what I think. Well, James, here's my question, though. If they're from her words, we all everybody heard it twice. One to a stranger, one in front of a camera on the White House lawn. They have tens of thousands of hours. That's mind boggling of grown men having sex with children. OK, so.

Who has the power, James, to not let them expose those people right now? Because those people are still walking around. Pedophiles, sexual assault, pedophiles that belong in prison. And to me, I believe they deserve to die.

OK, that's my thing. I agree. Stopping them, James, from releasing one of the names. We know the whole backstory would have seen. But you mean to tell me you guys are watching these videos every single day and nobody's been taken off the street? That's a question that Dan Bongino and Kash Patel need to answer. Will they need to answer? Will they do they have the courage to answer it?

Why aren't they answering it? By the way, people expect me to answer that question. I don't have any power. I mean, I'm other than the authority that sources give to me when they give me. I'll tell you something. I released some videos in the last week inside of Epstein's bedroom.

In the British Virgin Islands, excuse me, the American Virgin Islands. I'm releasing images inside of his temple. Some interesting stuff on the chalkboard, by the way. There's a weird picture of a baby in his dining room. There's his chalkboard. The FBI had those videos, but you know who released it? O'Keefe Media. Yep.

So why can't they release the binders? Remember the binders they released? Yep, yep. Why can't they release this stuff? Why am I releasing it? Yeah. I mean, there's no sex of children in there. That's something you could show the public. That's Epstein's writing, by the way, on the chalkboard. Mm-hmm.

Some mysterious and cryptic messages there. I think our government... Would you say power, deception, music? Mirror in face, either dank brain or dark brain. The public is deciphering these messages that Jeff Epstein... This is video, by the way, if you're wondering what this is, this is days after he was raided, shortly after his arrest there in 2019-2020.

And that's the penmanship to show that it was, in fact, Jeff Epstein's writing on the chalkboard. So we released this video. And my point is someone inside the United States government provided that to me. Someone inside the United States government gave that to you? That's correct. That you're in communication with? That's correct. High ranking or mid-level? I can't say. Okay. Okay.

But they gave it to you because they knew that the government wasn't going to release it. So let me have it released by an OMG. They gave it to me because they don't trust the FBI. And they work for the FBI. I can't say. Okay. And some of the stuff that I saw, the statues, the angel statue, right? The...

girl in the bathroom sitting there. That's a strange statue here. It's like eyes wide shut sort of stuff there with the weird... There's a woman doing something to her private parts there. It's a freaking demonic house, bro. There is some...

A book regarding Satan in the bookshelf. We got some books there. So yeah, this was provided to me. You're looking at the library, the bedroom of Jeffrey Epstein and the little St. James, the Epstein Island. This is inside of his library. No one's ever seen this before.

Some people attacking me for publishing this. Oh, we want the names, James. We don't care about his library. But my other it is Satanic Verses and some other books there. Satanic Verses by Salman Rush. Salman Rush. Right. That's that's different. But people were attacking me because they want the names. And my philosophy is that if I continue to publish all these things, sources will continue to come out. OK, so let me let me ask this question to to go to the next level.

Your method on how you get it, right? Your method on how you guys gather intel. It seems to be a pattern that a lot of these, like it's almost like if I was to audit you to see what your game plan is, you tend to target people that work in the office that are gay that, let me just say it and then just flush mine out and call me out and say, no, I disagree. So through Grindr dating sites, you'll go in,

Step number one, let's identify anybody on this administration that is gay. All right, great. Step number two, go on Grindr and see if you see their profile that matches this. Great.

Let's make 20 different profiles and let's see if one of the ones he'll fall for. Great. Four, schedule a day to go out and put the camera and the recording on you and nonchalant ask, what are you doing? Act like you don't know what they're doing. You don't have a clue who they are and act dumb. And then step number six, let's have a couple drinks, loosen them up, make them feel like you're ready to go home and have some fun with them. Step number seven, say, let's follow up. I have to go home. I'm so sorry. And then number eight, release the information.

Is that pretty spot on on the system and the approach you guys take? Or am I missing a few steps? You might be missing a few, but I think that's not 100% of what we do. That might be like 30%. That's one technique to get information, yes. Okay. So if that's the case, if that's the case,

How come have you had any or have you tried? Maybe the better question is to say, I am sure you've tried to get Fauci. I'm sure you've tried to get his people. I am sure you've tried to, you know, see how you can find him to get him in a place to open up and talk.

The question would be, one, have you two? Why have you not been that successful with Fauci? Specifically Anthony Fauci. I am specifically talking about Anthony Fauci. The man, not his staff, for example. Well, anybody that's his lieutenant, that would be his staff as well. That's still a very valuable asset because what you did with Pfizer was very powerful. Why haven't you been successful with Fauci? You know, I don't have a legitimate excuse there. I suppose...

I like to say this to my staff that, and I hate to refer to myself in the third person, but O'Keefe, O'Keefe Media, my organization,

We always get the story. Sometimes it just might take longer for us to get it. So I would say we haven't gotten him yet. Have I made the attempts? I mean, we did so many stories about Pfizer specifically. But to your point, why haven't we gone after this man in particular? Oh, I remember about two, three years ago, I did some everything I'm talking about is legal. But I did some a lot of surveillance on him for a number of days and

Moved on to the next story. So I suppose I don't really have a good excuse there. And that's something that I should get him to open up. I don't know if I told you last time we were together, there was a story of an insurance guy who had a couple prostitutes on his payroll. And this guy sells big insurance policies, something called premium financing. And one day, one of his competitors steals a give or take a $5 million insurance policy away from him.

and he finds out that he stole that $5 million insurance policy and coerced the client to go with him instead of the other guy. Anyways, this guy's step number one. Someone's computer keeps going. Can you lower the audio? Yeah. So he sends first a private investigator to see patterns. For about a month, they measure his patterns, what restaurants he goes to at what time, where he sits, what he orders, who's his waiter, who's his waitress. A month later, after doing a private investigation and seeing his patterns, he sends the girl.

The girl goes, sits at the bar. She knows where he's going to be at what time. And right next to him, she gets emotional and she smiles at him. He starts talking and say, what's going on? Is everything okay with you? I'm so sorry. I'm just really going through a really hard time. She starts crying. She opens up to him. She says, I'm so embarrassed crying here. He follows her, goes upstairs to a room. Boom. They have the recording, the footage. He sends the footage to the other agent and says, hey, this is what you did. You need to send that client back over to me. Do you go as far as that?

To measure patterns of an individual to see what restaurants and places to go to to be able to track it or, you know, is that one of the other 70%? That's an extreme example, but we have done things like that. There is something that we're working on right now where we were tracking down corruption in D.C.,

which you'll see in a month or so, which is serious, serious story. And we had to find a specific individual or a specific organization. So you can't do a dating app thing. You got to do it a different way. You might pretend to, and we don't do exactly what you just said, but you might create an alias. Let's say you're a headhunter or you're hiring. Whatever a person needs, someone needs something.

Undercover work is about identifying what that need is and providing that thing to them so that you can get access to them. Undercover work is all about access. How do you get access to someone? The easiest way is a dating app because everyone needs love and affection and so forth and so on, or they believe the person they're meeting with could be a possible future partner.

That's the easiest and most expedient way. But you make a really good point about Anthony Fauci. And frankly, I don't have a good excuse. And I usually don't do this on live television, but maybe I should send a team to get him to open up. It's a good idea. I don't think me saying this will stop him. That's the other thing. These people are so arrogant.

That people often say, how do these people keep talking to you? And the truth is because I'm not a psychologist, but for lack of a better word, they're all narcissists. They think they're untouchable. That's right. And they don't even look at us. It's almost like they're confessing. They just don't even think. It's impossible for them to think they could be held accountable for what they're saying.

And we have a whole bunch of what we call swipers. We call them the American swipers. And these are girls, some guys. I do this sometimes, you know, and I go on these lunch meetings, dinner meetings, and they just spill the beans. A lot of guys in the deep state in Washington that work for these organizations, the Pentagon, Department of Defense, and they're talking about they're resisting Donald Trump from the inside. Don't tell anybody I'm doing this. And they'll always say it within the first 15 minutes. And some of them have security clearances.

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right? To kind of say, let me tell you what I know. Wink, wink. Let's keep it between us. I'm cool. You know, it goes back to Jonah Mendez, the chief disguise officer I had on the podcast. I interviewed a writer in front of the white house. And I said, what's a good quality of being a CIA agent? I said, is it charming? Is it, is it great in sales? Has it been great persuader? Is it being this? Is it being that he says it's all of that. And then some, however, there's one quality we look for. What's that? If you just got the information, uh,

that you know you're watching TV, you just saved the free world, you don't need to brag about it to anybody else. That's the quality of a good CIA agent. What a freaking perspective. So for me, if you're bringing guys in, like you almost have to size them up to see how much are you trying to be cool. Like, for example, Scott Besant gives me a lot of good vibes of a guy that could give a shit about being cool. Makes sense because this guy worked on the roof for 15 years, almost 14 years.

First term was, I think, nine years under Soros. Then five years as his chief investment officer, if I'm not mistaken. Prior to him going up there, the average person didn't know who he was. They kind of knew, but they didn't know who he was. It was like, whoa, who is this guy, right? And then he goes in, but some of the guys that get in there, they're really, really ambitious with fame. And fame tends to get a hold of you and corrupt you in ways because behind closed doors, you want to be sitting in a room saying, let me tell you what I know. That's very hard to find people like that on the inside.

Very hard to have people around you that know information on what things you guys are working on and they want to brag to nobody. When I was running my insurance company, we'd always have big announcements. Like first time I had Kobe Bryant as a keynote speaker, the late Kobe Bryant, I didn't tell anybody. At that event, I announced him and George Bush as keynote speakers. Until the very end, only two people know that those two were the keynote speakers. I didn't tell anybody. And when we announced, my own wife didn't know. Nobody knew. When we announced, everyone's like, what? Yes. Yes.

But I could only tell two people. You didn't tell your wife. Nobody knew because it's exciting news. It's not even like for some people that they want to say it. They can't control the excitement. Oh, my God, I can't wait to meet him. Oh, my God, I can't wait that he's coming down. Right. So for some, it's from purely from an innocent excitement standpoint. For some, it's about let me tell you what I know. Don't tell anybody. Right.

Dude, that filtering process of getting people like that on your team. That's almost impossible. That's almost impossible. But that is the mission of how to surround yourself with good people. Ooh, that's a tough thing to do. The only way you can do that is if you've never had a run rate with them, to accelerate the testing.

Because your character has to be tested. It takes about a couple of years. How do you do that? I'm just curious your thoughts on how do you do that? You test them. It takes a couple of years. You test them with level three information and see if that gets leaked. It's easy. Go ahead and leak that. I don't want you to leak it, but if you do, I now know who you are. And then once I do that, I know I can never have you on level two type of meetings. I can only have you on level four type of meetings. I can't invite you to level two type of meetings because you leak information. That's the part where a little bit here, oh, you can't know.

A little bit there or you cannot. Like you have kids. You know how you're like, let me test to see if this guy can handle some bad news at this age. You give it to him, he panics and has anxiety. Like I can't give you bad news. But you give this other guy some bad news about what's going on with family, he can handle it. You're like, this guy's a gamer. He's not there yet.

Because this guy gets distracted. This guy with bad news, he knows how to keep it to himself. Stay strong. Okay, good. I can handle talking high-level conversation with this level of my kid, but not this one. Like a controlled leak almost. It's a controlled leak to test what the individuals know. This is a very difficult thing to do, and I bet at a job with Donald Trump when you're at that level, all you can do is, James, what do you think about John? James, what do you think about Cash? Let's say you don't have a relationship with him.

Let's say you don't have a relationship with some of these guys. What do you think about him? I think he's good. And you're hoping the person I'm asking is a tier one person that can filter out a person that's a tier four. Do I make this person a tier two? I don't know if this is making sense. Like you have to almost like lean on somebody else you trust to filter them out. So the reason why I'm going here is to see, you know, how for somebody to get to the level of the president where you saw the first term, how many people he hired that turned on him, flipped on him.

What did his methodology for phase two in 2024 change? How do you think about the team and the people that he's put together? I think they're a good team. I think they're loyal. In full disclosure, I've hiked with Bobby Kennedy in the Santa Monica Mountains, and I found him to be a brave man. When I say brave, I mean there is no incentive for him to do what he has done. He's a Kennedy guy.

So I agree with Tucker that Bobby Kennedy is probably one of the bravest people to have done what he has done. But I think going back to your point about incentives, in my case, I speak from personal experience. Let me give you a thought experiment. I've been arrested by the FBI. I've been raided by the FBI. I've been sued 50 times. I've been through all these things. Haven't been shot yet. And what Trump has gone through is at the highest level. And...

I find that there is an incentive to betray people like Trump. Look at all the goodies you get if you go to the New York Times and there's an incentive there. And I find that when you are pinched by the FBI, which I have been, and by the way, totally falsely accused. That doesn't matter if you did it or not. You're an innocent man. Forget that. They did this to Michael Flynn's son or something to the effect of, you better sign this form.

saying that your boss committed a crime or you won't see your family for 10 years. How many people would take that deal? In other words, how many people would do the right thing even if they suffered? That's a really terrifying and you hesitate to answer that question because this is where things get really deep. Because when you're going after the most powerful people in the world, which we are doing, which Trump is doing, um,

You have to find people, not Pat, who just won't leak information. But if the FBI were to point a gun at you and said, you better sign a form saying that James embezzled money, they say, I will not do that because I fear God, not man. Or whatever, if you're a Christian, you say that. If you're something else, you say something similar. I fear God, not man. I will not bear false witness because it's the wrong thing to do. Well, then you're not going to see your family for 10 years. Okay.

You have to find people like that. That's hard. It's hard to find those people. I go back to my original point. The instinct for self-preservation is an extremely important human behavior. And if you're going to do what Donald Trump is doing, or to a certain extent what Project Veritas is doing, going after Anthony Fauci and these types of people and Pfizer and BlackRock and the FBI, you have to find people who are completely unbreakable.

And that's just what we're talking about. How do you find that? Very, very difficult thing. Very difficult thing to do. And Donald Trump, I'll say one quick story about Donald Trump. I was with him a year ago in his apartment in New York City. And this was like right around the week he was getting indicted for some stupid stuff with the porn star. And he was signing a hat to my father. And this is I had done a story on the CIA, exposed the CIA guy on tape who was

I'm one of these dating apps giving away information. I'm resisting Donald Trump. I'm not giving information to the president. And he was and Trump wanted to make a video with me about reacting to this. And I said, how do you deal with it? I said, I'm serious. How do you? And he goes, he's signing this hat to my dad. And he goes, I just don't care. I just don't care. I was like, you don't care. He's like, I don't care. Maybe he doesn't care.

But he has been able to develop a way perhaps where he just got thick skin, you know, but it's tough. It's really tough to, to face these attacks and I can be strong, right? I can not bear false witness, right? I can say, I will not talk to you. Screw you. But my people around me have to be really, really strong. Yeah. It's not everybody's job. You know, it's not, it's not everybody's job. And when you go up,

to that position. You have to also know that your own family is not going to understand the job. Your voters are not going to understand the job. There's some decisions you have to make that's going to make 80% of people unhappy. And then you're going to be also in positions where your character is going to be tested. You're hoping that part you don't fall for. But sometimes you wonder when these guys get in, another reason why they flip or change or any of that.

Who's more valuable to a U.S. government? Somebody that I have information on, that I can control when I give them the job, or somebody I don't have information on? I don't know if you understand the question, what I'm saying. I said that again so I understand. Who is more controllable?

Somebody I hire that I have information on them, some intel on them that's maybe sensitive, that they wouldn't want to be public. Am I better off hiring somebody that I have something like that or am I better off offering a job to somebody that I have no intel on them? That's an interesting question. And it depends on your style of leadership. Interesting. And whether you have something on, I mean, people, everyone has skeletons in their closet, correct? Maybe something we've done that we're not proud of. Would you agree with that statement? Mm-hmm.

Maybe not illegal, although maybe you stole something when you were a teenager. But isn't it true that we all, every single one of us has something that we're not? No one walks on water. Everyone sins in a different way. We sin. And I mean, myself included. These board members of my company were trying to leak like intimate messages between me and my girlfriend, which made them look bad because everyone has an intimate relationship.

a life, a consensual life in your bedroom. But I think your point is interesting. What I would say in response to that is that, yeah, the motivation, the incentive for people not to have those skeletons leaked is extremely high. People will do anything to avoid being publicly shamed. And this is where this blackmail and this extortion thing comes in. My philosophy, if you want to know what I said, I said, go ahead, make my day, leak it. I don't care, I don't give a shit.

Publish everything. And they did. Evidently, they don't have much on me because the FBI went through every message in my phone for five years and all they could get was some kinky messages between me and my girlfriend. But I do think that the what do you what is your answer? Which of those do you think is an employer you'd focus on between those two? No, to me, it depends what type of a leader you are. Depends on what type of leader you are. Depends on what type of a leader you are, because I've watched.

how some of our guys led their guys and some of my competitors led them. I was in a previous company and I watched how one guy led one of his guys who he held them hostage because every month that guy under the table was giving him cash for loans and stuff like that, mortgages. And then all of a sudden the day it stopped, that guy lost all his licenses. So he liked having information on his guys to hold them hostage.

But deep down inside, that relationship is a dark relationship. And you don't have the loyalty. It's kind of like, imagine, you know, Anna Nicole Smith marries that billionaire, whoever the guy was. 90-some years old. And he was 88 years old, whatever his age was, right? She marries this guy, old as hell, and...

You think all the money in the world is going to win her love over? No. You just win her sex over. You don't win her love over, right? Whoever this J. Howard Marshall was that she ends up with this guy, and next thing you know, he dies, she's wealthy, and then she dies from overdose, right? You can, you know, win someone's sex over, their body over. Love, you can't win love with money. That takes a lot of work to get someone's love, right?

So I think the part with Trump which made him one of a kind is, do you realize we now know about Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal, grab him by this. We know all of that stuff. And you know what people say? No one gives a shit. No one cares. No one gives a shit. Which, by the way, if you remember...

The moment Herman Cain, 13 years ago, whatever the timeline was, he's in the bus. He's not coming out because apparently him and his wife were fighting in the bus. And they found out while he was the CEO of this pizza company, he had a lover or he had a, what do you call it, a mistress or something like that. Because of that, he stepped out. While Trump would come out and say, listen, it's my personal life. It's between me and my wife. We're moving on. What do you want to ask me?

So Trump was the guy that because he was so trained in New York to go up against these gangsters and tough guys and manipulators and media, he has been trained to get to this position. That's not everybody's job. So I think for him, he got so much moral authority today that if you cross him, you're

The world is going to defend him, not you. Not the world. I'm not talking mainstream media, but the people that are his supporters. So I don't know if he needs it today. I don't know if he needs it. I think an average, regular president that got up there, the traditional go be a lawyer and go be Congress and Senate and bullshit, bullshit. Yeah, that person needs a lot of that. I think from Trump's standpoint, Trump is like, look,

If you're in, you're in. If you're not, let's go. If you're going to roll, you roll. But I don't give a shit about what mistakes you made. I mean, I know what I've done. I'm like, let's go. I think my concern as an employer would be, I don't know if this falls into your dichotomy, but okay, information on people. Will the enemy, will the person allow the enemy to use that information as leverage?

And I'm the type of person where they may have something on me. I don't care. Publish it. But do my employees, are they able to be strong enough? Or will the enemy come and say, we have this information upon you. Now betray your mission. Well, by the way, you know what that is? What? That's a pure test to find out who was loyal and who wasn't. So it's an awesome situation. It's a tier one test. Tier one. Because that's a real test. That's a real test. Then you're like, oh.

So it wasn't. It was because it's, you know, you're just benefiting from what you were getting. I got it. Cool. It's good to know now. I got it. No problem. You know, we're good to go. You know, these moments where you're tempted to steal money, where you're tempted to do certain things, where you're tempted to go through, you know what things we're investigating somebody right now. It's been going on for a few months. The stuff I found out yesterday of one of these guys that we've been investigating has done. You're investigating a former person that used to work with us. Yeah.

Do you know what things we found? And by the way, you have to hear what he used to say. All the lines. James, you're like a father figure to me. Crying while behind closed doors, taking money and taking all this stuff. But these are beautiful situations because you know what happens when the investigation is over with? We're going to publicly report it to everybody here, to our employees. You know why? It's the same thing we did in the insurance company. If anybody at all sold insurance doing forgery, we told everybody.

We told everybody and said, that guy's insurance license is lost for 10 years. He can never do insurance again. Go ahead and test it and see what happens to you.

If somebody went out there, did any kind of stuff that was bad, we publicize it so people wouldn't do it again. Accountability. It's a form of accountability and it's a form of awareness. It's like, you know, you ever seen the mom or the dad is trying to feed the kid and the kid is not eating and he puts it in the dog, the doll's mouth and then goes to the kid, goes this way, goes this way. And this guy's down there, bam, hits the face of the little doll and then goes with the foot of the mouth. It's a form of accountability.

don't make this effing mistake, right? Which is what our FBI is not doing. Which is what our FBI is not doing. So that's the part where some people are not happy with us not seeing the accountability that we were promised. Correct. I would say people are enraged about this. I would say they are. I would say the part that they're, what's the word? Battling with?

I'm battling with is, look, there's so many great things that happened, but I really wanted to know what's going on over here. So do I compromise these two things that I really wanted to know? Because what are you doing to these kids and innocent kids? These are someone's daughter. They're someone's granddaughter. They're someone's sister. Are we not going to find this out? Are we just going to go hush-hush to this side? To this group that voted specifically to find out what's going on with Epstein and the kids?

They're not the type that are going to forget about it. Nope. They're the type that's going to keep bringing it up until you either reveal or you have to deal with it. We're going to keep for five years in. People are still enraged. Yeah. I don't think that's going to change. Any other items right now that is going on where for you politically, what's going on with White House right now or politically for you you're a little bit confused with? Well,

Tell me what you mean by that, the White House decision. Some of the decisions. There's a lot of victories right now. You're seeing a lot of victories. You're seeing the big, beautiful bill. You're seeing Russia, Putin, Trump talking. You're seeing China. You're seeing tariffs. Before we move on from the Epstein thing real quick, if we could go to this, this is present day. This is the...

John Daly clip with Prince Andrew, the guy on undercover camera. Didn't you cover this on your show? Yeah, we did. Oh, you did? Okay, you guys covered this. Yeah, we did. Basically saying he didn't like the fact that Prince Andrew, the brother of the late, I mean, not the late, of the king, was having sex with underage girls and he didn't like it. This is someone who's quite...

loyal and a confidant to Prince Andrew. I got a lot of heat for this too because people say this doesn't prove anything. And I think one of the challenges here is that you're confirming suspicions. You're getting them on video, admitting it.

He's having sex with underage girls. And then this guy goes on Piers Morgan. I don't know if you're... I just think it's hilarious. I don't know if your producer could find that clip. And then he says, I think O'Keefe's great. This girl that he said, man, she was beautiful. No shame. And what did you think about what he said? I regret saying it. I regret being...

He admits that he was giving you credit for the girl. And credit to Piers Morgan for grilling him. Big time. Grilling him. I was actually shocked that it's going to be hard to find this clip, but Piers Morgan was just grilling him. So that's that's I've been I've been honest to Pat. I've been so heads down in my reporting. I mean, heads down on this Epstein reporting. I have not.

I have not been as follow the news right now in the world. So let me ask, make the second request. So my first request was Fauci. My second request is Diddy.

Have you at all thought about doing anything with Diddy? Or you guys haven't focused on that one yet? I think these are great ideas. No, no, I think there's, I am and I should and I will. And I did get some sources with Diddy a year or two ago, but I think your idea, let me ask you a better question. What is the thing that needs to be exposed? What, if exposed, would change things? That's helpful to me. Yeah, I mean, if you think about, okay, so if you want to be part of something legendary, right?

I'm talking legendary, is in the 70s, 60s, 50s, 40s, 30s, J. Edgar Hoover, all these guys, when the FBI first started with him, there is no such thing as, you know, Italian, the crime family. That doesn't exist, right? Organized crime family doesn't exist. All right, now they know they had intel on them with the cross-dressing stuff, but...

In the 80s, Giuliani was able to bring down the mob with the help of the RICO law by this professor from Rutgers that all of a sudden we saw a couple hundred mob bosses, underbosses, conciliary, handcuffed, walking out, getting arrested. That was un-freaking-believable.

It was something that everybody around the world heard about, the news. Them being perp walked. Of course. If you, James, if you want something that is revolutionary breakthrough, revolutionary breakthrough, it's Diddy because he's alive.

The people are alive. With Epstein, you know, Epstein is, yeah. But if you get something from Leon Black, Rob, is Leon Black still alive? I believe so. If you go get something from Leon Black, which I don't know if you pursued or not. Yeah, 73 years old. Okay, Leon Black is the one that apparently paid Epstein $150 million in consulting fees for tax purposes. Rob, can you type in tax purposes or tax Epstein? Just type tax Epstein.

So right there, Leon Black gave $170 million to Epstein for a click on a rap so we can read the story. So Leon Black, according to ESN, a finance, he transfers $170 million to Epstein's accounts. And when they asked him why you did that, he said he paid the accused sex trafficker for tax advice.

This is the most expensive tax advice anyone's ever given in the history of mankind. Leon Black, the billionaire financier and former CEO of Apollo Global Management, transferred $170 million to the Epson covers for the course of five years. U.S. Senator Ron Wyden said in a letter that U.S. Justice and Treasury Department this week, not $158 million as previously reported. An investigation commissioned by Apollo's board appeared to have missed $12 million in transfer, which were discovered by investigators working with the U.S. So Leon Black, some of these guys are around, right?

Some of them are around on what Epstein did. But with Diddy, you're talking about Epstein. You're talking about Diddy, Hollywood, sports. You're talking about talent agencies, producers, countries. I mean, Diddy's is...

And it's going on right now. So if you did something while the hearing is going on, it's like you finding out something while OJ Simpson's thing's going on. Right. And you leak something during the entire investigation. It's like you're doing something and you drop it during Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.

Right. You know, but Diddy to me is the comparable of an OJ Simpson. And what do you think the thing if caught on video that would change thing? I can't I mean, I'd love to see people perp walk. I don't have the power to arrest. But what is the thing that needs to be on video in your mind? Oh, it's very easy for me. Tell me. It's very easy. It's a gay sex with, you know, men that, you know, play straight.

I see. And that is released? In other words, these men have internal conflicts and they're blackmailed over this. Oh, and I think those video footages, believe it or not, I believe exist in different people's phones because I think these guys are so... Diddy thought he was so untouchable that no one was ever going to lose and they would airdrop a video to each other. Like iPhone, iOS, just in the photos. I am willing to bet that in some kind of a folder it's sitting there with these footages

You know, that people save, that's got a specific code that the video is all the way in and say, watch what I have with what we did here. I think that too. And also the, the, the so-called blackmail. How do you, how do you think it, it, it, it actually works? Like what is the conversation like in your mind, in your imagination? I'm just curious. You guys, because that helps me as an investigative understand what I'm trying to, to catch. How do I think Diddy's model works? Correct. What's your hypotheses? Well,

I mean, it's very simple. You come to the house. You party. You have one of the girls that locks on to one of the guys who's one of your workers. They go upstairs. There's 17 cameras in there. He says, hey, man, can I get a room? Yeah, bro, just go use my room. Goes to the room, leaves. She's 17. She's 15. Or there's a guy in there, and I record it. I have it. And the next day I say, hey, I just want to let you know, here's what I got.

It's very simple. Moving forward, anything I ask from you, I need you to do. That's the thing that needs to be on video. Yeah. What you just said. Yeah. That would change everything, in my opinion. I think that would be in text, not in video. In a text message. I think it would be in text messages. But I think that video...

Well, he's dumb enough to say it. He's dumb enough to say stuff like that. He's capable of saying stuff like that. But he might have hearsay. In other words, and this is what happened with Prince Andrew, another guy close to him said that this is what happened, which is still powerful. Well, those guys are out there. The Gene deals, the security, those guys have come out. They've done their part. There's a lot of people that have said stuff like that, like Suge Knight talking about his link to Clive Davis and all this other stuff. That stuff is coming out. But...

If you can get him tied to a few other people, I think this will be the biggest story you'll break. I am working on this and I will work on this. Okay. Especially with some of the stuff that was dropped this week. Some of the ecstasy pills. With Obama's face on it. Some very weird stuff going on here, James. Just with Obama and...

Yeah, Obama, because he was hung out with them a lot. He was at the rock the vote thing at his house, hanging out, partying. And then you have videos of like Christy Tijan with John Legend. And they asked Christy Tijan, where's the craziest place you've had sex in public? And she goes, there was that Obama thing. And John Legend's face looks like he saw a ghost.

He looks like he saw a freaking ghost. Did you see that, Pat? Yeah, of course. Okay. Of course. Robbie, I sent it to you in the Slack. I just think, you know, the part with what world we're living in today, we're living in a world today where we're not sure the U.S. government is going to drop these stories because these are stories you can use to get intel.

I mean, this is, I commit to you that I will do this. And I usually do get the story. Sometimes it takes me a little longer than I'd like. But this is also very dangerous, wouldn't you admit, to do these stories? Well, you subscribe to this lifestyle. I certainly did. I remember you said about a year ago, you said, James O'Keefe has chosen a tough life. And it was a very, I think it was a more profound statement than even you intended to.

Not tough in the way that most people... Usually they use the courts against me. Legal, lawyers. That's a whole other conversation. But this is very dangerous. And the people that have come before me, like the... What's the movie? To Kill a Messenger? With...

about a reporter in California who reported on the CIA and the drugs and the CIA and they were given, and he committed suicide. I think he shot himself in the head twice, by the way. Yeah, this guy. It was based upon Gary Webb, To Kill a Messenger. These are the reporters that came before me. Gary Webb managed to shoot himself in the head twice. Twice.

That's a really impressive thing to do. Holy moly. You'd think the gun would fall out of your hand the first time. You would think. Yeah, he did some stories on the CIA. It was a great movie. And Gary Webb has a remarkable quote, an incredible quote, that I would like to read on the air in front of all of you. And it's from this book that was written called To Kill a Messenger. And I'm going to paraphrase because I can't pull it up, but it's...

Gary Webb says, you know, I was winning. I'm going to paraphrase. I was winning awards. I was getting accolades. I was giving speeches. I won the Pulitzer Prize. And then I broke some stories. He's talking about the one about the CIA that made me realize how misplaced my bliss had been. I started messing with with the wrong people.

And I began to realize I misplaced my value in what I actually value. And I'm butchering the quote, but it's a profound quote. And then he committed suicide. So my point to you is that this is very dangerous, man. No, the job you've chosen, it's tough because if you, okay, here's the next part. If you have a lot of friends,

In high places, James, you're not doing your job right. That's correct. But you need, you know what everyone says in the conservative movement? Do you know Cash? Do you know Pam? Do you know this guy? It's all about rubbing elbows and people doing favors. I don't do that for a living. No, that's not the profile of this job. No. The profile of this job

is exactly what you're doing and it's not for everybody. It's just not for everybody because you're not a popular cool person. For you to keep the T word for as long as possible, you can't have a lot of friends. And you know what the T word is? - The trust. - Trust. - Yeah, to keep trust, you can't have a lot of friends at high places.

at high places. - That's right. It's a tough thing as a journalist to navigate the relationship between what I call autonomy and access. There's a tension in journalism because on one hand you have to protect your sources. And on the other hand, you have to investigate and it's very difficult. That's a very, it's an art form. It's an ethical line. At what point do I, I'm gonna burn this, in business you call it burning bridges.

In journalism, you burn bridges every day. You report on powerful people. So it's very tough. Well, Jake Tapper, look at what happened with Jake Tapper, right? Like with all the stuff that he's going through right now. Okay, why is he losing respect from other journalists? Because we all knew what he's now reporting. He's acting like it's news. He's acting like it's news. James, question before we finish it up here because we've got a few minutes here left. So in your opinion, you spent a lot of time with Breitbart. What happened to him?

You mean like how did he die? What happened to him? The timing of it is very strange. I don't, I don't have any inside information. I know, I know his wife would always say to me, don't tell people that he was killed. Andrew had a heart condition. He had an enlarged heart, I believe. And the doctor said, you gotta, you know, you gotta stop, you know, you know, eating all the steak and drinking all this wine. You have to stop traveling. And I think he just truly pushed himself. That's my belief.

I don't have, I would share with the audience if I had any evidence of foul play. All I have is circumstantial evidence. I have no direct evidence. He dropped dead of a heart attack at 43. This was March 1st, 2012. I was 27. He was my mentor. Did you ever meet him? Never. Andrew was a remarkable man. He edited the Drudge Report at the time. He would tweet like a thousand times a day. He was filled with righteous indignation.

This is a different world 12 years ago. The media was different. You could like engage with legacy media. You could tweet back and forth. You could have conversations. And, and he was a mentor of mine. It was, we were very different people. He was more of an extrovert. I was at the time, much more introverted. Um, but, but he had a way about him. He was a warrior and that's what we shared in common. I think what I would characterize myself, I'm a journalist. I'm also a warrior. I'm at war all the time, constantly, constantly.

And he was too. But it aged him. Like I'm now 40 years old. He died at 43. And in the last few years of his life, he just seemed to age. And he took things personally. And he was angry and furious and righteous and indignant and tweeting every tweet at the reporter and holding them accountable. I've never met anyone like him. I still haven't met anyone like him.

But I don't have any information about his death other than I know he had a heart condition.

That's all I can say. And it was kind of – I mean, and God rest his soul because, I mean, I was a huge fan. And, James, that's how I found out about you. It was just weird that he was on stage claiming that he had tapes on Obama. He would call him a radical. I remember another time, the camera in his face, some reporters holding him. He's yelling at the guy's recorder, and he's saying, we're coming after you, John Podesta. We're coming after you, Big Soros. There's this moment where Andrew Breitbart is –

Talking to Dave Weigel. I know this well. And this is really, this is a perfect, perfect story. And the reporter's got his little pencil and paper. I don't know if they do that anymore. Writing down, and Andrew goes, and Andrew is talking to the reporter, and he screams into the reporter notebook, fuck you, John Podesta. Fuck you.

Only Andrew Breitbart. He's talking to the reporter notebook, not to the guy, but to the masses the reporter's writing to. That is a quintessential Andrew Breitbart moment, and I understand him because I am similar in that particular way. He was righteously indignant taking on this mainstream media. Watch this. Watch this. ... politics of personal destruction...

Fuck you, John Podesta. Watch, watch, Big Soros. Look, watch this, watch this. Yeah. What's in your closet, John Podesta? He's talking to the reporter notebook. Big Podesta, Big Soros, do you want us to play these games? Because we're playing to win.

This is Andrew Breitbart. Dude. And then think about it, James. He has this attitude. I love the righteous indignation. I read the book. The guy's, like you said, he was going 100 miles an hour because he's just, he has the same, you guys weren't the same, James, but the message and getting the truth out there. No, we spoke. I mean, Andrew, him and I, this man you just saw, him and I spoke 10 times a day. I mean, he was constantly talking to me. And then he died and I was alone. I found the quote. I need to read this on the air, please. Quote,

This is the investigator reporter who exposed drug trafficking with the CIA and getting drugs in America, Gary Webb. I was winning awards, getting raises, lecturing college classes, appearing on TV shows and judging journalism contests. I won the Pulitzer Prize. And then I wrote some stories that made me realize how sadly misplaced my bliss had been.

The reason I'd enjoyed such smooth sailing in my career for so long hadn't been, as I'd assumed, because I was careful and diligent and good at my job. The truth was that in all those years, I hadn't written anything important enough to suppress. Gary Webb, to kill a messenger, shot himself in the head twice. Everyone that has come before me

And who extreme truth tellers have been like, you think of even historically, like in a much larger scale, they've been assassinated. That's why, that's why the Breitbart story is different. If you, and I understand your respect for the wife and, and I'm sure she's sick and tired of hearing all this stuff because she just wants to move on. So you can take that position. But Rob, if you can pull that thing up, it's a little weird when you read about it and you see stuff about, um,

You know, let me see this. Yeah. So this is the corner, right? Yeah. So you got Michael Cormier, a forensic technician with LA County office died on April 20th, 2012. The same day Breitbart autopsy results were released.

Cormier had complained of severe stomach pain and vomiting before being hospitalized, where he later died. Initial reports indicate that arsenic poisoning was a possible cause of death, and the L.A. Department did not immediately rule out foul play. What are the odds? A little weird. What are the odds that the day that... That's a little suspicious. That's a little suspicious. The proximity of Cormier's death to the release of Breitbart's autopsy report led to online speculation about a possible connection between the two deaths.

However, officials clarified that Cormier was not involved in Breitbart's autopsy. Deputy Sheriff Edwin understand that Cormier had nothing to do with the autopsy or the investigation. As of now, no definitive public finding has been released regarding the cause of Cormier's death and no official connection has been established between his death and that of Anthony.

Andrew Breitbart. If you have to say the odds, Pat, what are the odds that because some people were saying that he ran out, Andrew ran out and turned a completely different color as if he was choking on something, that when the autopsy of him comes out, a guy in that same...

L.A. coroner's office dies of arsenic poisoning. He didn't get hit by a car. He didn't fall off of a bridge. He's died. Somebody poisoned him. The problem, and this is, Pat, this is extremely suspicious. And God willing, if anyone has proof, if there's someone in the hospital, if there's someone with knowledge, I'd love to report. The problem is I walk a fine line, too, because if I come out and make a statement that I can't prove, then I lose credibility.

So I have to be careful. But I hear what you're saying. This is incredibly suspicious. And I don't even know what to say about it, except I hope that...

It's 13 years later here. Yeah, exactly. We're still talking about JFK and who shot JFK. Yeah, but the point here is the reason why I've never talked about Breitbart and how I've never, ever talked about it on any podcast ever. This is the first time. I don't know how many hundreds of interviews we've done. We've never brought it up. The only reason we bring it up is because to me, he was a true believer. I think you're a true believer.

And I think there's a handful of guys that are true believers, not mainstream, because you can't be mainstream. You have to compromise to be mainstream. Correct. And, you know, for you to go work for any of the big platforms, pick any one of them, you would have to compromise. And I don't think you're going to be doing that. So for guys like that, you need additional protection to be aware. You know, it's like the other day, Trump was in Saudi and they offer him a drink and he just keeps holding it like this.

I don't know if you saw that. He's just keeping a whole drink like this. He's going to hold a drink like this. So I think for a guy like you, as you're going through everything that you're doing with your circle, with your community, with people that maybe, you know, yeah, is this the one? Look at this one here. It's classic. It's like, oh, what do you want me to do with this? So MBS drank it, but he's not drinking it. He's just hanging on to it. It's like, oh, it's great.

He looks down at it. Yeah, just give him the respect. But he's not going to drink it. And one more reporter, Michael Hastings, died in a fiery car crash. He reported on Stanley McChrystal. So I'm well aware of the dangers, but, you know, I mean, what do you really want to know? Am I afraid to die?

Um, not really. I've lived a good life. I believe in what I'm doing. And I, I'm also a spiritual person. I believe in God. I know there's that saying, you know, no weapon formed against me shall prosper. It's an Isaiah. I genuinely believe I wear it around my neck. Border Patrol agent gave to me. I rode the train of death in Mexico. I should have died. I didn't, you know, so I believe in what I'm doing and, and, and, um,

Maybe I'll be the one that got away. That's all I can say.

The Truth Inside Veritas Part 1. It's 54 minutes. It's going to feel like five minutes to you because that's exactly how I felt when I watched it. It went like this. Boom. And I'm like, wow. Intense. The energy is going to be high from the beginning to the very end. I really enjoyed watching it. James, great having you back on. Appreciate you for coming down. Thank you. Anytime. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

Hello, everyone. I'm James O'Keefe. Been doing this journalism thing for about 20 years. Truth, justice, exposing corruption, everything that comes along with it. If you want to connect with me, talk to me about any of this. You can connect with me through Manect. You can see the QR code below. Look forward to hearing from you.