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cover of episode 'Diddy' cleared of sex trafficking and racketeering but guilty on other charges

'Diddy' cleared of sex trafficking and racketeering but guilty on other charges

2025/7/3
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Adeline Morris-Jacobs
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Arunade Mukherjee
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听众: 我认为判决总体上是公平的,考虑到案件的严重性和受害者,他应该服刑。我也为他感到高兴,我认为对他的许多指控是虚假的,他得到了应有的公正对待。当然,我也有些震惊,因为我之前认为他有罪,但我并没有全程关注这个案子。 Doug Vigdor: 作为卡桑德拉·文图拉的律师,我们很高兴他终于为两项联邦罪行负责,但他仍然面临大量的监禁时间。我们当然希望看到他在性犯罪和 RICO 方面的定罪,但我们理解排除合理怀疑是一个很高的标准。 Nomia Iqbal: 对肖恩·迪迪·科姆斯来说,这个判决是一场彻底的胜利,陪审团裁定他无罪,免于最严重的敲诈勒索阴谋指控,如果他被判有罪,他可能面临终身监禁。他被判犯有两项罪名,即以卖淫为目的的运输罪,涉及卡桑德拉·文图拉和另一名女性。他被判无性交易罪,对他来说是一大胜利。在审判中,辩方承认肖恩·科姆斯在个人关系中存在暴力行为。因此,法官在做出决定时引用了这一点,认为最好将肖恩·科姆斯关在监狱里,等待 10 月份的判决。这两项指控最高刑期均为 10 年,但法律专家认为他不太可能服刑那么长时间。此外,他还面临多起关于多名女性指控他性侵犯的民事诉讼。 Mark Anthony Neal: 毫无疑问,这件事损害了科姆斯先生的声誉。近年来,他作为高端产品的品牌大使非常成功,在某种程度上,他超越了嘻哈音乐和嘻哈文化的主流。这件事损害了他的声誉,也损害了他的遗产。在 20 世纪 90 年代,他的遗产意义重大,因为在 20 世纪 90 年代初,当嘻哈音乐从美国的贫民窟走向美国主流,走向全球主流时,他是嘻哈音乐最有效的宣传员。肖恩·科姆斯愿意将这种文化推销给大众。近年来,最成功的说唱歌手,如 Drake、Kendrick Lamar 和 J. Cole,都没有特意与 Diddy 合作。审判刚开始时,迪迪的音乐突然开始大量涌入或播放。很多人只是从未听过他的音乐,希望通过音乐了解这个人。无论他作为商业艺术家、制作人还是大亨多么成功,这不是迈尔斯·戴维斯的音乐。这不是我们 100 年后还会回去欣赏的艺术。

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Sean "Diddy" Combs was found guilty on two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution but cleared of more serious sex trafficking and racketeering charges. The judge denied him bail, citing his violent past. He faces substantial jail time but legal experts believe he's unlikely to serve the maximum sentence.
  • Diddy acquitted of sex trafficking and racketeering
  • Found guilty on two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution
  • Bail denied
  • Faces substantial jail time, but unlikely to serve maximum sentence
  • Multiple civil lawsuits pending

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This is Shirley Strawberry from the Steve Harvey Morning Show. Toyota has been building a legacy of excellence for years, from developing hybrid technology to upping the standards of safety and efficiency. Toyota is always innovating, always making progress. And with a superior lineup of in-stock SUVs, including the adventure-ready RAV4 and capable, affordable Corolla Cross, you can experience the legacy of Toyota for yourself. Visit

The official website for deals to find out more. Toyota, let's go places. Residents at Brightview Senior Living Communities enjoy enhanced possibilities, independence, and choice. Brightview Dulles Corner in Herndon and Brightview, Great Falls, offer vibrant senior independent living, assisted living, and memory care services through various daily programs and cultural events.

chef-prepared meals, safety and security, transportation, resort-style amenities, and high-quality care. Everything you need is here. Discover more at brightviewseniorliving.com. Equal housing opportunity. This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service.

I'm Julia McFarlane, and in the early hours of Thursday, the 3rd of July, these are our main stories. The American music mogul Sean Diddy Combs has been denied bail following his conviction for prostitution-related offences, even though he was cleared of more serious charges. President Trump says Vietnam has agreed a trade deal to reduce tariffs, making it one of only a handful of countries to do so ahead of a deadline next week.

DNA testing of bones of a multi-ethnic ancient man has offered clues about how Egypt became a great civilisation. Also in this podcast... One day it could be chicken with Malagasy wild pepper, tonka beans and a creamy polenta. The next day, pulled beef with black garlic and smoked vanilla. Foie gras in orbit, lobster bisque in space. France's new astronaut plans to blast off in culinary style.

For nearly eight weeks now, the world has watched the trial of Sean Diddy Combs, one of the biggest names in rap and hip hop. On Wednesday, he was acquitted of sex trafficking and racketeering, the more serious charges against him. He was, however, found guilty on two charges of transportation to engage in prostitution.

As the judge read out the full verdict, Combs dropped to his knees and prayed. He then rose and faced the courtroom gallery saying, I'm going to be home soon. But that was not to be. The judge presiding over his case has denied Sean Combs bail. His family had put up a bond of $1 million. Outside the court, a large crowd of critics and supporters reacted to the verdict.

I think it was overall a fair verdict. I think he definitely should do some time, in my opinion, just given the severity of everything, the victims. I'm kind of happy for him. I always felt like they had, you know, a lot of bogus charges against him. Maybe some were substantiated, others weren't. And, you know, I feel like he got rightfully his just due today.

I'm a little bit shocked. I get a little bit of goosebumps on my arm because I thought he was guilty. But of course, I'm not a juror. I didn't follow the whole case.

Doug Vigdor is the lawyer for Cassie Ventura, a key witness and former girlfriend of Sean Combs, who gave harrowing evidence throughout the trial, accusing him of violence, coercion, blackmail and rape. We're pleased that he's finally been held responsible for two federal crimes, something that he's never faced in his life. He still faces substantial jail time.

Of course, we would have liked to have seen a conviction on the sex crimes in Rico, but we understand beyond a reasonable doubt it's a high standard. Well, in a moment, we'll hear from our correspondent from outside the court. But first, the BBC's Neda Tawfiq looks back at the trial. For seven weeks, this Manhattan courthouse has pulled back the curtain on the private life of one of hip-hop's most iconic figures. Sean Diddy Combs, in appearance and dress, was a far cry from his public mogul image.

It was undisputed by his lawyers that he had a dark, violent past. But the question for the jury was whether it amounted to crimes of sex trafficking and racketeering. On the trial's first day, a video of Diddy beating and dragging Cassie was shown to the court. The security guard at the L.A. hotel testified that Diddy told Cassie, who had a black eye, that she couldn't leave and that Diddy tried to bribe him with cash to stay quiet.

Later in the trial, a hotel security officer said Diddy and his chief of staff contacted him and then gave him $100,000 for the video.

This incident was just one of many detailed by an eight months pregnant Cassie over four harrowing days. She accused Diddy of 11 years of physical sexual abuse including rape and blackmail. She said freak-offs or prolonged sex acts with male prostitutes that Diddy directed and sometimes filmed became a weekly job and left her feeling worthless.

Rapper Kid Cudi briefly dated Cassie and backed up elements of her testimony. Cudi told the court that Diddy, angry about their relationship, broke into his Hollywood Hills home in December of 2011. And an L.A. police officer testified about seeing a black SUV registered to Diddy's company, leaving the scene. Cudi also said he was sure Diddy was behind the firebombing of his Porsche 911 weeks later. Several of Diddy's former personal assistants detailed a brutal work environment.

They also said they were tasked with picking up drugs and stocking Diddy's hotel rooms with specific items, such as a copious amount of baby oil. Prosecutors accused Diddy of sex trafficking another woman who was with him for three years. Fighting through tears and emotion, she testified under the pseudonym Jane and said reading Cassie's claims was like reading her own sexual trauma. The burden is on the government to prove its case, but the defense throughout tried to undermine the witness's credibility.

They showed dozens of loving and explicit messages between the women and Diddy. And Jane revealed under cross-examination that she went to a hotel gathering with another iconic rapper and his girlfriend, where they all watched a male escort have sex with another woman.

Diddy said the freak-offs were consensual and part of his swinger lifestyle. The defence did not call any witnesses and Diddy decided not to testify. Ahead of the trial, he rejected a plea deal, betting the jury would set him free. Nada Tawfiq reporting. Our correspondent, Nomia Iqbal, has been following the trial in New York and she spoke to us shortly before we recorded this podcast. This...

This verdict was a resounding victory for Sean Diddy Combs. The jury coming back and clearing him of that most serious charge of racketeering conspiracy that if he had been convicted on that, he could have faced life in prison. He was convicted on two counts. And this was transportation with intent to commit prostitution. That related to Cassandra Ventura, his ex-girlfriend of more than 10 years, who was one of the witnesses, and to another woman.

She was in court. She gave evidence under the pseudonym Jane. He was cleared on sex trafficking charges too. So a big victory for him. But just now in court, we had the bail hearing. His defence team said that he should be released on bail. He's been in jail since last September when he was arrested, but that was denied by the judge. The judge said that...

At trial, the defence conceded Sean Combs' violence in his own personal relationship. And so the judge cited that in making the decision that it was best to keep Sean Combs in jail to await his sentencing, which will happen in October.

And Normia, just looking at the live feeds from where you are outside the courthouse in New York, we're seeing a steady trickle of people leaving. Are we expecting to hear anything outside the courthouse? I don't think so. His family, they come and go. I've not heard anything.

I'm not sure if they've left yet. There's usually a big black van that pulls up in which they enter and leave and they don't talk to the press. Of course, if Sean Combs had been released and that was an expectation earlier today, the roads would have been closed off. I mean, there's a huge police presence here because it's not just the media, like the legacy media here. You also have lots of influencer types, people with their own Instagram, TikToks,

YouTube accounts with their phones and selfie sticks recording every single minute of this. And it's New York. New York is pretty hairy anyway. But Sean Diddy Combs is this huge, iconic hip hop star. And there's so many people invested in this trial and its outcome. But we're not expecting to hear from anybody today. And as I mentioned, he will now await his sentencing, which is due to take place in October.

which will take into account those two charges he's been convicted on. Both of those charges carry a maximum sentence of 10 years each, but legal experts do not think he is likely to serve that time. Also to mention, he has multiple civil lawsuits against him regarding many women who have accused him of sexual assault.

Nomiya Iqbal. Mark Anthony Neal is Distinguished Professor of African American Studies at Duke University in North Carolina. So what does this mean for the reputation of Sean Combs? There's no doubt that this tarnishes Mr. Combs' reputation. It's been a while since he's been at the center of energy in hip-hop in the United States.

He had become really successful as a kind of, in recent years, as a brand ambassador for really high-end products. And really, in some ways, was above the fray to what was happening in terms of the mainstream of hip-hop music and hip-hop culture. But there's no question that this is damaging to that reputation. It is damaging also, you know, to his legacy.

You know, which in the 1990s was significant because, you know, he was hip hop's most effective hype man in the early 1990s as hip hop moved from the ghettos here in the United States to the mainstream of America, to the global mainstream.

That happened in large part because of the willingness of Sean Combs to sell the culture to the masses. What's his reputation now, leaving aside this case, both for the generation who grew up with him, men like me now in our mid-50s, but also for the younger African-American men who may still like the music, but have watched the whole nature of that music evolve and move on to much younger artists?

You know, it's difficult. I think about the fact that when you look at some of the most successful rappers in recent years in the U.S., the Drakes, the Kendrick Lamars, the J. Coles, you know, they weren't going out of their way to do collaborations with Diddy. You know, those kinds of artists 25 years ago that were in the industry would have been dying to be able to have that kind of opportunity. I also think there are younger audiences that

were aware of Diddy, but not necessarily of his music. I think folks pointed out the fact that when the trial first happened, you know, there was suddenly this upstream or streaming of Diddy's music. And a lot of that was because of young folks who just had never listened to his music before and were hoping to get some keys and understandings to who this person was via the music. But the reality is that however successful he was as a commercial artist, as a producer, as

As a mogul, you know, this was not the music of Miles Davis, right? And I make that comparison deliberately, right? It's not art that we're going to be going back to 100 years from now. What about attitudes to women? We have seen plenty of cases, obviously most recently Harvey Weinstein cases, the whole Me Too movement, which grew out in many ways out of the entertainment industry. Hip hop has had a bit of a reputation for some accused of being a misogynistic art form. Do you think in any way that has changed?

You know, the reality is that for whatever misogyny and patriarchy gets expressed within hip hop, hip hop is not an outlier. Yeah. You know, patriarchy and misogyny, at least in the U.S. context, is as American as U.S. context. You barely have to just look at the sitting American president for some example of that. You know, that being said, you know, there have often been the attempts and really, you know, pretty sustained over the last 25 years to

to hold hip-hop accountable for its representation of women. Sexist, misogynist, all those kinds of things. The Me Too moment really was a different moment because it caused us to really think about how practices were occurring within the industry and relationships that were problematic. So in this case, R. Kelly, going back a few years ago, and now Sean Combs, is kind of a reckoning that's occurring within hip-hop culture.

Mark Anthony Neal speaking to my colleague Sean Lay. Now, two of the biggest stock market indices on Wall Street, the S&P 500 and the Nasdaq, ended trading at record highs on Wednesday after President Trump announced a trade deal with Vietnam. The country is one of the few to reach an agreement with the U.S. three months after he introduced punitive tariffs on foreign goods sold to America.

Vietnam was threatened with levies of 46%. And while these have been lowered, the agreement appears to favour the United States. American goods sold to Vietnam, on the other hand, will have zero tariffs. I heard more from Arunade Mukherjee in Washington. Donald Trump talking about how it will be a great deal of cooperation between the US as well as Vietnam. According to the US president, Vietnam will be paying the United States a 20% tariff on any goods sent into the US.

and this is critical, a 40% tariff on any trans shipping. In return, Vietnam gives the US total access to their markets for trade, is what Donald Trump said. Now, Vietnam, well, we had a government statement where they confirmed that there was an agreement, but they did not provide any details of that. But Donald Trump's announcement comes a week before the threatened trade

a U.S. reimposition of tariffs on several countries, many of them still trying to stitch those deals. Just to come back on that 40% tariff on any transshipping, this is significant because it is seen as the Trump administration trying to address some of those concerns that countries like Vietnam are used as transit points for Chinese manufacturers to try and bypass U.S. tariffs and send goods into the U.S.,

The US has also been trying to push Vietnam to buy more from them and be less import dependent on China in an aim to try and reduce Beijing's influence. So all in all, a very significant development. Interesting. Arunade, Vietnam is a huge player for American consumers. Lots of retailers have factories in Vietnam, but it doesn't appear that Vietnam itself has gained that much from this deal. Well, it remains to be seen. You know, there will be two lines of thought.

But having said that, you know, let's just look at how Vietnam is structured in terms of its trade. It's a country that is largely dependent on exports. Its widely admired economic development over the past three decades has largely been driven by this success in selling products to various countries around the world, in particular to the U.S., because exports to the U.S. contribute around 30 percent of Vietnam's GDP. Their exports consist primarily of electronics, footwear and apparel.

In fact, interestingly, we're already seeing shares of Nike and other apparel companies rise after this announcement. But what's also going to be interesting is how Vietnam continues to tread a very fine line. It remains in that unique position. It's always tried to balance diplomacy and its economic ties between, on one hand, its proximity to China and also, on the other hand, trying to get closer to the U.S. Now, this entire deal is likely to also impact countries like China.

Arunade, you mentioned earlier that there is a deadline looming. So will this spur on other countries to try and strike their own deal with President Trump? Well, they're certainly feeling the pressure for sure. It's imperative that they reach some form of a deal. Countries beyond China are struggling with the threat of very high tariffs.

which could significantly impact their economies and trade. Donald Trump, in his typical style, has talked about being close to some of these deals with some countries, but we still haven't heard of any concrete deals. But the big one to watch out for will be what they can strike with a country like India, for instance, given it's one of the fastest growing economies in the world. Arunadev Mukherjee.

New analysis of DNA from a four and a half thousand year old skeleton has provided fresh insight into how ancient Egypt transformed itself into one of the great civilizations on earth. Samples taken from the inner ear and teeth of the remains show some of the DNA matched those of people from Mesopotamia, the other great society of that time, in a region known as the Fertile Crescent, located in what's now known as Iran, Syria and Iraq.

The findings have been published in the journal Nature, as our science correspondent Pallab Ghosh reports. Archaeological evidence indicates that ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia may have been in contact at least 10,000 years ago, when people in Mesopotamia began to farm and domesticate animals, and so making the transition from hunter-gatherers to an agricultural society.

Many scholars believe that this social and technological revolution may have influenced similar developments in ancient Egypt, but there's been no irrefutable proof of direct contact between the populations until now. Adeline Morris-Jacobs of Liverpool John Moores University says that her findings provide clear-cut evidence that there was significant migration of people and information between the two centres of civilisation.

Scientists have been using ancient DNA analysis to track changes in human evolution over millions of years.

But refinements of the technique mean the technology now has the potential to show more recent historical events in a new way. Pallab Ghosh. Still to come. There were 80 different species of moth that appeared that evening, so there was a lot of sounds that I had to play with. If it wasn't for the moths, that piece would not happen. We meet the composer who's using moths to make music and to highlight their dramatic decline.

Thank you.

This is Shirley Strawberry from the Steve Harvey Morning Show. Toyota has been building a legacy of excellence for years, from developing hybrid technology to upping the standards of safety and efficiency. Toyota is always innovating, always making progress. And with a superior lineup of in-stock SUVs, including the adventure-ready RAV4 and capable, affordable Corolla Cross, you can experience the legacy of Toyota for yourself. Visit

buyatoyota.com, the official website for deals to find out more. Toyota, let's go places. When you're driving, nothing's better than binging on a podcast.

Well, except maybe binging on rewards from Marathon. That's because you can earn at least five cents a gallon in rewards every time you fuel up, saving up to a buck a gallon. Plus, signing up is easy. Do it straight from the pump or at MarathonRewards.com. So start binging on savings with rewards from Marathon today. And don't miss the Thomas Rhett Better in Boots Tour this summer, fueled by Marathon. I participate in locations. Terms and conditions apply.

Residents at Brightview Senior Living Communities enjoy enhanced possibilities, independence, and choice. Brightview Dulles Corner in Herndon and Brightview, Great Falls, offer vibrant senior independent living, assisted living, and memory care services through various daily programs and cultural events.

Chef-prepared meals, safety and security, transportation, resort-style amenities, and high-quality care. Everything you need is here. Discover more at brightviewseniorliving.com. Equal housing opportunity. The Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has reiterated his aim to destroy Hamas in his first public comment since President Trump said Israel had agreed a 60-day ceasefire in Gaza.

Meanwhile, Hamas has said it will study what Mr Trump described as a final proposal. Mr Netanyahu is due to visit the White House next week. From Jerusalem, here's Ione Wells. The pressure from Donald Trump for Israel and Hamas to reach a deal is there. Whether there are proposals that both sides will accept is another matter. Israel will want the release of all hostages remaining in Gaza as part of a deal. About 20 of the 50 still there are thought to be alive.

Hamas says it is ready and serious to reach a ceasefire agreement if Israel commits to an end to the war, something it has so far refused to sign up to. Israel's bombardment of Gaza has intensified this week, killing and injuring dozens of people.

The Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, speaking publicly for the first time since Donald Trump's post, did not suggest he'd changed his position, that he wants complete victory over Hamas before ending the conflict. There will be no Hamas. There will be no Hamastan. We're not going back to that. It's over. We will release all our hostages.

We will eliminate them to the core. Hamas's senior figures have been killed, but Mr Netanyahu is under pressure from the far-right members of his coalition not to end the war. Polling suggests most Israelis want him to, as do the families of the remaining hostages and Donald Trump, who he may feel indebted to over the US's recent intervention in the Israel-Iran conflict.

Officials have told the BBC that Hamas representatives do not seem optimistic yet about the prospects of a truce, saying there are no new proposals that would meet its demands to end the war or for Israel to withdraw its troops.

The European Commission has proposed setting a new interim target of a 90% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2040. That's measured against levels recorded back in 1990. The target is seen as crucial for the EU's legally binding objective of having no net emissions by 2050. Our Europe regional editor, Danny Eberhard, has more details.

At a time when some nations, notably the US, are weakening or gutting climate commitments, the EU Commission is sending a very different political signal. Its head, Ursula von der Leyen, said it was standing firmly behind decarbonising the EU's economy.

Currently, the EU has two self-imposed, legally binding targets. The most immediate is that, by 2030, it must reduce greenhouse gas emissions by at least 55% when compared to 1990 levels. Then, it must go carbon neutral by 2050. That's a flagship, globally significant policy. This latest proposal would provide a further staging post for getting there.

The 90% goal by 2040 would, the Commission argues, give predictability to investors and businesses. The goal, it says, is realistic and will help the planet create more jobs and improve energy security at a time of great geopolitical uncertainty and when Europe is spending billions importing energy. That, too, will boost economic competitiveness. Opinion surveys indicate Europeans are strongly in favour of climate action.

Heat waves such as the current one, which has seen Spain register its hottest ever June, underline the problem. Here's the European Commissioner for Climate, Wapke Hoekstra. It is about protecting our people from extreme weather events and from global warming. And the Eurobarometer, which was just cited, published on Monday, shows that 85%, 85% of Europeans are actually worried about climate change.

I've said to you before, and I think that we need to manage the paradox, that many of those same citizens also worry what climate action might mean for them. And bringing them along, making this fair for them, is therefore of the utmost importance. As well as stressing the need for a socially fair transition, the Commission also wants to give nations more flexibility in how they'd hit the target.

Some political groups, including on the populist right, oppose ambitious climate policies, arguing they can threaten jobs, especially in energy-intensive industries, and increase the cost of living. Environmentalists disagree, pointing to the fact that renewables such as solar and wind can generally provide the cheapest electricity.

Now, when France's newest astronaut blasts off to join the International Space Station next year, she'll face months of being fed freeze-dried nutrients. But Sophie Adno will also be able to look forward to the occasional special treat of lobster bisque, crème de foie gras, velouté of curried parsnip and haddock, all prepared by her favourite Michelin-starred chef. Presumably he's not also going with her.

From Paris, Hugh Schofield reports. Most of the food on the space station is standard packaged fare, full of goodness, no doubt, but lacking that culinary je ne sais quoi, which any self-respecting French astronaut so badly needs. But astronauts can bring with them a certain quantity of their own food. And so Sophie Adenau has teamed up with the multi-Michelin starred Anne-Sophie Picque

to draw up a list of items to help her through those long, dawnless days in weight-free orbit. One day over the Atlantic, it could be chicken with Malagasy wild pepper, tonka beans and a creamy polenta. The next day over the Pacific, pulled beef with black garlic and smoked vanilla. And for dessert, how about a chocolate cream with crushed hazelnut?

Sophie Adeneau says she will share the haute cuisine with her colleagues on board. It is, after all, an important moment. French gastronomic culture becoming, for the first time, extraterrestrial. Hugh Schofield.

Now, if you're annoyed by tiny holes appearing in the clothes stored in your wardrobe, as a knitter and someone with an extraordinary amount of wool in my house, I certainly live in fear of them. Before you reach for the mothballs, a different perspective on the pesky little fabric munchers.

Now what you're hearing there are the movements and behaviours of moths represented by musical sound, put together by composer and moth enthusiast Ellie Wilson. She tracked the night-time journeys of certain moth species in the south-west of England for her project,

and she says it's left her more fascinated by the creatures than ever before. Moth x Human is due to be performed in London this weekend. My colleague James Menendez asked Ellie how this unusual collaboration was hatched.

I was put in contact with scientists at the UK Centre for Ecology and Hydrology, and they had created these new automated systems which they use to monitor moth activity across the UK. And so it's that data that I have then sonified to use their movement to create a piece.

And the way I did that was they gave me spreadsheets and then I chose one day of activity from midnight through to 4 a.m. on a location called Parsonage Downs, which is in Salisbury in Wiltshire.

And being able to bring that data into some software that I use called Ableton, I was able to assign different notes and sounds to the individual species of moths that were flying around in that evening. And so because I was able to give them sounds, what the music then does for us is that the movement throughout that evening creates the music. So every time, for example, an elephant hawk moth appeared,

throughout that evening, I'd given that elephant hawkmoth a sound and therefore every time that moth appeared and landed on the moth monitoring system, that sound would appear. And so you're getting that kind of ebb and flow of the movement of that night but through music. And the ending point of the piece, I think things go quite quiet.

They do. It was really important for me to use this piece as a way of exploring declining biodiversity and highlighting the fact that just like bees and butterflies, moths are in significant decline due to all the usual things like climate change, habitat loss.

And I wanted to explore that, but in music form. So what I wanted at the beginning of the piece was to show a really good location that was full of biodiversity, lots and lots of moth activity, which is the bit that I've just been talking about. But at the very end of the piece, I used data from a different location and

farmland that use pesticides and is a monoculture and the contrast is audible. You know, you can hear that there's very, very little movement. It's very sparse. There was only 19 different species of moths that appeared during that same four hour period. They get a bit of a bad rat moth, don't they? I mean, compared to, I mean, bees and butterflies sort of get all the attention. Yes, I think so. And I think it's because we don't see them because they come out at night when we're asleep. Some people find them a bit creepy, don't they?

I think they do. And I think it's sort of the unknown or we think about the ones that maybe eat our jumpers. But that's only a couple of species that do that. Doing this project has made me even more fascinated with them because I didn't realise that there's 2,500 species of moth in the UK alone. And the fact that...

that butterflies actually evolved from moths. So moths came first. So I think we need to put them up high and celebrate them. Absolutely fascinating. I think I'm going to keep my mothballs though. Ellie Wilson speaking to James Menendez.

And that's all from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or any of the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk. You can also find us on X at BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod.

This edition was mixed by Caroline Driscoll and the producers were Alison Davis and Stephen Yensen. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Julia McFarlane. Until next time, goodbye.