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Trump blocks Ukraine weapons deliveries

2025/7/2
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Global News Podcast

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A
Alex Ritson
C
Casey Smith
C
Celia Hatton
D
David Knott
E
Elizabeth Hodgson
F
Fedor Venislavsky
G
Gideon Saar
H
Hugo Remy
J
James Waterhouse
J
Jared Towers
K
Katie Smith
K
Kerry Nicholson
L
Lobsang Sange
M
Madeleine Halpert
M
Matt Johnson
M
Mohammed
N
Nomia Iqbal
O
Oleg Bykov
P
Paul Adams
R
Rachel Cummings
S
Samira Hussain
S
Serhii Maksymenko
T
Tim Noblett
W
Wira Davis
Topics
Alex Ritson: 美国暂停对乌克兰的武器运输,原因是担心美国库存过低。乌克兰外交部已邀请一位美国外交官进行会谈。这一决定对乌克兰造成了打击,因为乌克兰一直迫切需要更多的爱国者导弹来保护其城市免受俄罗斯的袭击。俄罗斯对这一消息表示欢迎,称这将使战争更接近结束。然而,乌克兰警告说,任何延误只会助长莫斯科的胆量。 Fedor Venislavsky: 我认为美国的这一决定对我们来说当然是非常令人不快的,并且在俄罗斯对乌克兰发动恐怖袭击的背景下,情况更加糟糕。每天都有乌克兰平民死于这些恐怖袭击。 Paul Adams: 乌克兰官员一直强调需要加强空中防御,俄罗斯近几个月来增加了无人机的使用,对乌克兰发起了大量的空中攻击。暂停武器运输可能会影响“爱国者”导弹系统,这将引起乌克兰的严重关切,因为保卫乌克兰的天空是一项持续的任务。任何影响乌克兰自卫能力的事情都会受到莫斯科的欢迎。在东部,俄罗斯军队的进展非常缓慢,而且是以巨大的人力和军事装备损失为代价的。俄罗斯夜以继日地攻击乌克兰,乌克兰也在对俄罗斯境内进行有效的空中攻击。几乎每天都有乌克兰无人机远程袭击俄罗斯武器工厂、油库的消息。

Deep Dive

Chapters
Ukraine summoned a US diplomat due to the White House's decision to halt weapons deliveries amid low US stockpiles. This move is seen as potentially emboldening Russia, while Russia itself welcomes the news. The situation highlights the ongoing need for air defenses in Ukraine and the intensity of the aerial attacks.
  • US weapons shipment suspension to Ukraine
  • Concerns over low US stockpiles
  • Ukraine's urgent request for more Patriots
  • Russia's welcoming of the news
  • Impact on the ongoing war in Ukraine

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
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This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

This is Steve Covino from Covino & Rich. Here to tell you Toyota's legacy has been standing tall for generations. From pioneering hybrid technology to redefining the standards of safety and efficiency. With each innovation, a commitment to progress. And with a legendary lineup of in-stock trucks, including the ultra-rugged new Tacoma and heavy-duty half-ton Tundra, you can experience the legacy of Toyota for yourself. Visit BuyAToyota.com, the official website for deals, to find out more. Toyota, let's go places.

Residents at Brightview Senior Living Communities enjoy enhanced possibilities, independence, and choice. Brightview Dulles Corner in Herndon and Brightview Great Falls offer vibrant senior independent living, assisted living, and memory care services through various daily programs and cultural events.

Chef-prepared meals, safety and security, transportation, resort-style amenities, and high-quality care. Everything you need is here. Discover more at brightviewseniorliving.com. Equal housing opportunity.

This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Alex Ritson and at 13 hours GMT on Wednesday the 2nd of July, these are our main stories. A blow to Ukraine. The Foreign Ministry invites a US diplomat for talks after a decision by the White House to suspend vital weapons shipments.

President Trump says Israel has agreed on the conditions for a 60-day ceasefire in Gaza and tells Hamas to accept the deal. The elderly Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, says he's in charge of the process of choosing his successor, but China doesn't agree.

Also in this podcast... In these cases, killer whales actually approached people and stopped directly in front of them and then dropped the food and waited for their responses. Would you take a snack from a killer whale?

Let's start in Ukraine, where Kiev has summoned a US diplomat over a decision to suspend weapons shipments. On Tuesday, the White House confirmed that some US deliveries had been put on pause over concerns that US stockpiles are too low. The US hasn't said which weapons would be affected or the scale of the rollback, but it's believed to include Patriot air defence missiles and artillery shells. Ukraine has also said that the US has not yet decided which weapons would be affected.

Ukraine has been urgently requesting more patriots to protect its cities from Russian attack. Russia has welcomed the news, saying it would bring the war closer to an end. Kyiv has warned any delays will only embolden Moscow. Here's the reaction from one Ukrainian MP, Fedor Venislavsky.

This decision is certainly very unpleasant for us. It's painful, and against the background of the terrorist attacks which Russia commits against Ukraine, against peaceful towns, cities, villages, citizens of Ukraine that die almost every day from such terrorist attacks, it's a very unpleasant situation. I asked our diplomatic correspondent Paul Adams, who's in Kyiv, how serious this was for Ukraine.

The need for increased air defenses has been an absolutely constant refrain from Ukrainian officials throughout this war. And if you look at the sheer number of aerial attacks mounted by Russia in recent months with the increasing use of drones, I mean, sometimes hundreds and hundreds of drones in a single night, along with ballistic and cruise missiles, it's

Those numbers have been increasing dramatically with these large-scale attacks on Ukrainian cities. And so the need for air defences is as acute as it has ever been.

When Donald Trump met President Zelensky at the NATO summit a week ago, the two discussed this. And indeed, afterwards, Donald Trump said that he was going to try and see if the U.S. could make more Patriot interceptor missiles available. It's not clear whether that is going to happen, because even though the details of this meeting,

by the Pentagon have not really been fleshed out, it is thought that Patriot missiles will be among those weapons systems affected. So, you know, that is going to be a source of major concern because defending Ukraine's skies is a constant preoccupation. Presumably, this is going to be music to the ears of President Putin. Well, if it lasts, then it will be...

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

So obviously anything that has an impact on that, reduces Ukraine's ability to defend itself, will be extremely welcome in Moscow. And what is the latest on the fighting, Paul? Well, in the east, it remains a very, very slow grinding process. I mean, Russia's forces do continue to make progress, but it is glacial progress and it is progress that is still being made at

enormous cost in terms of Russian manpower and military equipment lost. So that kind of that situation hasn't really changed a whole lot. The air war, if you like, is perhaps the most one of the most important elements of this, because not only are the Russians attacking Ukraine night after night, but Ukraine is also mounting its own extremely effective aerial attacks,

deep, deep into Russia. And indeed, there was almost hardly a day goes past without news of some long range Ukrainian drone attack targeting, you know, Russian weapons factories, oil depots, sometimes hundreds, even thousands of kilometres from Ukraine's borders. And we'll have more on the war in Ukraine later in this podcast.

The Israeli Foreign Minister Gideon Saar has said no effort should be spared to free the last remaining hostages held by Hamas in Gaza captured during its assault on southern Israel in October 2023. Speaking in Lithuania, he insisted that Israel was serious about a potential ceasefire to free the captives.

Israel did not seek this war. Hamas started it and is responsible also for its continuation in Gaza. We are serious in our will to reach a hostage deal and a ceasefire. This war can end any day if Hamas releases our hostages and lays down its arms. President Trump has said Israel had agreed, in his words, to the necessary conditions for a 60-day ceasefire in Gaza...

and called on Hamas to reciprocate. On the ground, though, the Israelis appear to be ratcheting up the pressure, carrying out fresh airstrikes across the territory and ordering thousands of civilians to relocate ahead of possible fresh military action. Rachel Cummings of Save the Children International is in Deir el-Bala in central Gaza.

The situation here is desperate. There will always be hope in Gaza for a pause in hostilities, a ceasefire. But people are desperately in survival mode. They're trying to find food, water during a very live and kinetic conflict with constant bombardments and these evacuation notices coming.

I've been speaking to our correspondent in Jerusalem, Wira Davis, who says there's still huge uncertainty about any possible ceasefire, let alone any longer-term plan for peace.

We just don't know what is going to happen and how Gaza would be run after the war ends. Most European, most international countries would accept that the Palestinian Authority must be involved somehow. But the key thing first, of course, is there has to be a peace agreement. The fighting has to end. We don't know the details of what Mr Trump has agreed with Israeli negotiators.

But this 60-day ceasefire, as attractive as it may sound, it isn't, of course, a formal end to the war. And that is the one thing that the Palestinian negotiators, that's the one thing that Hamas will want.

if they're going to sign the ceasefire agreement. That's always been one of their main sticking points, the reasons that they haven't been to agree with the Israelis on a long-term truce in the past. So I think there's a lot to discuss in the short term before we get to the long-term future of Gaza. Yeah, and Donald Trump has used his social media megaphone to warn Hamas that things will only get worse if they reject this peace deal. But even that remains highly problematic.

Yeah, look, Donald Trump has made it clear, even to the Israelis, that he's tired of this war, 21 months of war. It's not what he campaigned on to get into office. It's not going to help him secure his Nobel Peace Prize. So, you know, I think he's been twisting everybody's arm behind their backs, particularly Benjamin Netanyahu. But let's not fool ourselves. No, the Americans have been very much on the side of the Israelis throughout this conflict ever since October the 7th and Israel's

right to respond to that. Of course, America providing most of Israel's arms that have been raining down on Gaza over the last period. But Donald Trump clearly wants an end to the war. He will have spoken now to Israeli negotiators who've been in Washington this week. Those details now will be passed on to the Hamas negotiators, probably via Qatar,

And it's the response of Hamas to that where everybody's waiting for. And, of course, the details. And we simply don't know the details yet. We're at Davis in Jerusalem.

The exiled spiritual head of Tibetan Buddhists, the Dalai Lama, has confirmed that he will have a successor after his death, chosen by the foundation he set up and ending years of uncertainty over what would happen next. The decision puts him at odds with China's government, which says it alone would choose the successor. China, which annexed Tibet in the 1950s, regards him as a separatist.

Lobsang Sange, the former president of the Tibetan government in exile, knows the Dalai Lama well. He says the Chinese government has no right to do so. They have no legitimacy and credibility in selecting the next Dalai Lama because Communist Party of China is an atheist organisation. They have criticised Dalai Lama for

or his entire life. And they have destroyed 99% of monasteries and nunneries, 99.9% of monks and nuns were destroyed. 75% of ancient artifacts of Tibet were completely destroyed under communist rule. So they have no legitimacy and credibility in choosing the next Dalai Lama. I got more details about the long-awaited announcement from our South Asia correspondent, Samira Hussain, who's in Dharamsala, where the Dalai Lama lives in exile.

Well, it was certainly very much anticipated. You know, we had heard from the Dalai Lama, you know, more than a decade ago that when he turns 90 years old, he would provide a succession plan. Now, there has been a lot of speculation in terms of what that plan would look like, whether he would bucket it.

buck tradition and perhaps do away with the entire institution of Dalai Lamas, or if he would select someone who is older rather than going with tradition and selecting someone that is usually three to four years old and is then groomed into the position. But he made it clear that he is going to keep with the tradition that has been ongoing for centuries and that the Dalai Lama, and it is the council,

of Dalai Lamas that will be selecting this next leader. Now, what's really interesting, though, is in this statement that was pre-recorded, the Dalai Lama made it very clear that it is only the Dalai Lama's federation or foundation, rather, that can make the choice for a new spiritual leader, really rejecting any claims that China may have.

And that was then followed up by his counsel, who then said that they actually strongly condemn any idea or any notion that the People's Republic of China could unilaterally appoint any future Dalai Lama for its own political gain. China's going to be furious, isn't it?

And it has already come out swinging. China has already said that it strongly rejects the claims that are made by the Dalai Lama and his council. And they have said that if there is a new Dalai Lama, it has to be someone that is selected within China and it has to have the approval of the Chinese government.

And there is speculation that the successor will come from somewhere else entirely. It is. One of the things that the Dalai Lama has said in the past is that, you know, the next Dalai Lama will be born free. Well, Tibet is still under China's control. So the possibility is that, in fact, it will be born outside of Tibet. Samira Hussain in Dharamsala in northern India.

Tackling gangs of people smugglers who help migrants cross from France to the UK in small boats has long been a political sticking point, with the current British government promising to, as it puts it, smash the gangs.

However, its own figures show a record 20,000 people successfully made the journey in the first six months of this year, a year-on-year rise of nearly 50%. Our correspondent James Waterhouse has been investigating and found the people smugglers are thriving. The inhabitants of this makeshift camp north of Calais are used to urgency. This morning, it's to receive a hot lunch of bread and pasta from local volunteers...

These people from Eritrea, Iraq, Kuwait, Iran are part of a larger game of cat and mouse between local police, you see them, and the gangs who've promised to get them to the UK for thousands of pounds.

It's not so easy to pick out the people's smugglers, but there's an air of organisation here. The camp will likely be demolished by the authorities, but relocating is a part of life here. Next to the main canal in central Calais is this camp. It's surrounded by a rocky terrain and litter. It's partially emptied because of a successful crossing last night. Mohammed here...

was on that boat, but had to jump off to rescue his children who were struggling in the water. Syria is totally destroyed. Our country is destroyed. There is no life, no houses, no water, no electricity, nothing.

It's not possible to have a future there. Syria is dead. Immigration laws are tightening across Europe. The UK is no different, but is still seen as the last chance of a better life. It's why, with no outward fear, migrants fill local buses to locations close to the beach. They then get instructions of where to hide and wait for their boat. My name is Ahmed.

How many times have you tried to cross to the UK? Why has it failed for seven occasions?

So you're going now to hopefully get a boat? He's just moving away where a load of men are cramming into a chartered bus. It says Boulogne-sur-Mer, which is on the coast. So let's see where they're going to go.

As we try to catch up, we realise a local patrol car had the same idea and it goes down very badly with Ahmed, who makes it clear he doesn't want to speak with us anymore.

So the guys have asked us to stop following them. They thought we had tipped off the police. We had not. But you notice a definite mood shift. And when you trawl this part of the northern French shoreline, you realise that it's not just about those who successfully cross into the UK, but the vast majority who repeatedly try and fail. And clearly there is a motivation, a drive behind

to reach the opportunities as they see it across the English Channel and to escape the horrors left behind at home. With the arrival of this clear dawn and high tide at around 4am is an opportunity for the migrants to make the final stage of their journey across the Channel to the UK. We've seen police higher up by the sand dunes patrolling. It's where people tend to hide before dashing to

meet a boat that might be collecting them out at sea and it's once they are there that the police on this side tend to leave them be. We see two small boats inch out into the vast English Channel. This is just a part of the record number of asylum claims the UK is seeing but the crossings have long been a symbol of what's seen as a struggle with illegal immigration.

There is talk of tougher sentences for gangs, sending some migrants back to France and giving police here more powers. But the numbers of those making this final leg of a long journey will likely keep rising before any fall. James Waterhouse.

The jury in the sex trafficking trial of the rap star Sean Diddy Combs has reached a verdict on most of the charges against him. But at the time of recording this podcast, they're still deadlocked on the most serious count of racketeering conspiracy. The judge in New York has asked them to resume their deliberations. Sean Combs has denied all the charges against him. Our reporter Madeleine Halpert was in court as the judge received the note from the jury...

and she spoke to the BBC's Nomia Iqbal.

The mood in the court was really tense. We weren't sure what the note was. We never know before the judge actually reads it out loud. But soon we could tell something's up here because Combs was seated in his chair. He had a really stressed expression on his face. And his lawyers started to huddle around him, like touching his shoulder. His children, who weren't there this morning, were suddenly seated behind him. So we could tell something serious seems to be happening here, even if we weren't expecting a verdict necessarily. So we have a partial verdict on four of the charges, but we don't know what that verdict is yet, right?

Right. We don't know what the verdict is. We know that they've reached an agreement on counts two, three, four and five. And count one, they seem to not be able to reach an agreement on because some people have unswayable opinions. And so they've been sent out to continue. Well, they've gone home for the night. Just to remind that charge, racketeering conspiracy, that's a really complicated charge. Even when you look at the verdict sheet, there's so many different parts to it.

It is the most complicated charge and also the most serious charge. He faces life in prison, potentially, if he's convicted of it. So it makes sense that this is the charge that the jurors are taking the longest time to kind of go over. It's a hugely complicated charge that is difficult for the average person to understand.

And I also want to mention Madeleine's been covering this case for seven weeks. We're in the eighth week now. It's the final phase. Can you just sum up what it's been like? It's definitely mayhem, I would say. I've covered several court cases, but this is like nothing we've seen before. The characters inside and outside of the courtroom, lots of influencers, supporters of Diddy. We've just seen a massive amount of activity inside the courtroom like we've never seen before. Madeleine Halpert and Nomi Iqbal outside court in New York.

Still to come in this podcast... Corporations and big organisations are pulling funding, some of these being American organisations or international organisations who have lost their DEI budget. What is the future for pride celebrations in a Donald Trump world?

This is Steve Covino from Covino & Rich. Here to tell you Toyota's legacy has been standing tall for generations. From pioneering hybrid technology to redefining the standards of safety and efficiency. With each innovation, a commitment to progress. And with a legendary lineup of in-stock trucks, including the ultra-rugged new Tacoma and heavy-duty half-ton Tundra, you can experience the legacy of Toyota for yourself. Visit BuyAToyota.com, the official website for deals, to find out more. Toyota.

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To Australia, where a four-year inquiry in the state of Victoria has found that European settlers committed genocide against its indigenous peoples. Celia Hatton has the details. Eleven British ships arrived in Australia in 1788, marking the beginning of European colonisation and the oppression of indigenous peoples who now make up just 4% of the population.

Australia's first truth-telling commission said mass killings, disease, sexual violence, child removal and forced assimilation had led to the near-complete destruction of indigenous communities in Victoria. The report said current economic gaps and barriers to First Peoples' prosperity were direct legacies of colonialism and state-sanctioned exclusion. Celia Hatton.

Superstars of women's football are in Switzerland for the much-anticipated Euro 2025 tournament. The opening game is between Finland and Iceland. England will be defending their 2022 title, but Spain, the current world champions, are the favourites. The organisers are hoping that the global increase in popularity in the women's game will get more people watching. BBC's Casey Smith says excitement is building.

From what I gather from the journalists that have been out and about so far is that it's, yeah, it's certainly going to be this festival atmosphere. It's going to be fun. They have fan zones. They want it to be incredibly inclusive. And I think there's a real hope that they've watched what happens in the Netherlands in 2017. They watched what happened to England and the boom of football popularity after the win three years ago. They want something similar. And actually, if you look at it, incredibly impressive. They've sold out 22 of the 31 matches so far. They've sold more tickets than

than went in Euro 2022. The prize money has gone up 156% since three years ago. Still, you know, a shadow of what the men's Euros was last year. 331 million for the men's last year. This time, 41 million for the women's. But,

all moving in the right direction. And there's certainly some real excitement. Switzerland, there is a real chance for them if they can bring something together, if they can use the host atmosphere and the party atmosphere of all their fans behind them, potentially could get out of the groups for the first time. And that could be really positive for the tournament.

The way that the new Nations League has been structured over the last few years means that these teams actually play each other a lot more often and consistently than we saw in previous tournaments. So what it does give us is quite a good form guide as to how this might go. And if you look at 2025...

I think you've got to be looking at Germany with a serious threat. The finalists last time had a shocker at the World Cup a couple of years ago, but they've got a change in manager. They are a free-flowing type of team. Olympic bronze medalists now from last summer in Paris. I think the Netherlands and France as well. That is why we're calling it the group of death. Katie Smith.

Medics in Ukraine say shrapnel wounds now make up 80% of battlefield trauma, with many on the front line suffering near-fatal injuries from fragments of bombs or other devices.

But a new magnetic device made in Ukraine is changing the face of frontline medicine. Designed to extract fragments from wounds quickly and safely, it's now being distributed to hospitals and frontline medics across the country, as Anastasia Gribanova reports. I can feel something here. I can feel a fragment here.

Veteran war medic David Knott is holding a large pink artificial heart. Inside the heart he has placed a metal fragment, which he is trying to remove. Fragment and shrapnel wounds are extremely difficult to treat. David is demonstrating a new tool.

It was used on Ukrainian serviceman Serhiy.

We meet him in Lviv, western Ukraine, and he shows me a small rusty piece of metal with dried blood still visible on it. This fragment grazed my kidney, pierced my lung and my heart. I didn't even realize what it was. This sharp fragment nearly killed him. We traveled to Dnipro in southern Ukraine to speak to the doctors who operated on Serhiy.

to find out more about how they used the device. Serhii Maksymenko shows us the video of the surgery. I just make a small incision, insert the extractor and it pulls the shrapnel out. Magnetic extractors made life so much easier as we don't need to cut the heart precisely. This concept isn't new.

Magnets were used for removing metal from wounds as far back as the Crimean War, in the 1850s. But inventor Oleg Bykov and his team have modernized the technology. Our devices are unique because they enable medics to extract fragments from limbs and tissues even in the trenches, not just in hospitals.

He shows us a pile of rusty shrapnel, some as big and as sharp as a shark tooth. All had been removed by the magnetic extractors, which, despite their popularity, have not been officially certified. We have around six different factories involved. This is all run by businesses, ordinary Ukrainians and volunteers. We receive no state support.

The Ukrainian health ministry told us that while the country is at war, certification can be overlooked. David Nott agrees. Sometimes in war it's not really necessary. You do the things which are important to save lives and you can forget the certification. Anastasia Gribanova with that report.

Is the golden era of funding for pride events from major corporations coming to an end? UK pride events say they're facing a critical funding crisis with 75% seeing a decline in corporate sponsorships this year.

The drop is being attributed to the trickle-down impact of Donald Trump's slashing of diversity, equality and inclusion policies in the US. So what does this mean for the events which celebrate LGBTQ plus communities? Here's the BBC's Elizabeth Hodgson.

The second Trump administration has brought with it a rollback of diversity, equity and inclusion policies, as well as restrictions of rights for trans and gender non-conforming people.

The political and policy climate has led to some big names cutting funding for Pride initiatives and parades, and not just in the US. Tim Noblett is Director of Marketing at Pride in London, the UK's biggest Pride event. So what we've seen here, both directly in Pride in London, but also at a wider UK level, is that corporations and big organisations are pulling funding. Some of these being American organisations or international organisations who have lost their DEI budget.

And I think there's also been an opportunity for some organisations to use this cultural shift to step away. There's long been a concern that big names have used pride sponsorship and the rainbow symbol in general as a quick way to sell products to the LGBTQ community. Kerry Nicholson, who identifies as non-binary, is Chief Operating Officer at marketing consultancy Brand Champions. You can't just put a rainbow on something and expect it to sell and expect...

If you're a big company sponsoring a pride event, will your dollars actually translate into extra sales? Dr.

Dr. Matt Johnson, a professor of marketing and psychology at Holt International Business School in Boston, isn't sure. Certainly members of that specific consumer group may be more likely to buy from a brand that openly espouses those values. But consumers tend to be very, very habitual with their spending. They tend to be very price sensitive, especially in times of inflation. Yeah, of course, we like in the abstract sense, a company that maybe espouses certain values. But

we also love a deal. Despite the wider challenges, there are companies that are still keen to get involved in Pride events. Hugo Remy is the boss of Pride Pay, a finance app launching later this year. It's the new lead sponsor of Pride in London, and Remy has a very pragmatic approach to corporate funding in general. Even the best public initiative will fail without proper funding, you know, and everything in our life costs money right now.

I'm bisexual myself. I feel free and secure in the UK. I can talk about this. In my home country, I still can't. I always try to be honest with myself, first of all, and with other people. I know that when you have an opportunity to change something, you should use this opportunity. So while some corporations have stepped back from contributing to events, others are relishing the opportunity and representation Pride presents. Elizabeth Hodgson.

Killer whales, as the name suggests, have a fierce reputation as predators and in recent years as being fond of trying to sink boats in the Med. But a new study has found that orcas seem to have a softer side and offer to share their food with humans. Researchers from Canada, New Zealand and Mexico recorded more than 30 instances over two decades where the whales offered up prey-like seabirds and jellyfish to

There's a tasty snack. Richard Hamilton spoke to the lead author, Jared Towers, from Bay Cetology, a marine biology research team in Western Canada. It began for me personally in 2015 when a killer whale offered me a dead bird. And in 2018, a different killer whale offered my colleagues and I a dead harbour seal.

And through conversations with other colleagues, I started to find out that killer whales in different parts of the world, including California, Argentina, New Zealand, Mexico, Norway, had also engaged in this kind of behavior with a wide variety of prey species, from different kinds of fish to marine mammals, including sea otter and gray whale, to even sea turtle in one case.

Killer whales are well known for being curious and sometimes they'll kill a prey item and they'll swim past a boat or a person with it and show people their prey. But in these cases, killer whales actually approached people and stopped directly in front of them and then dropped the food and waited for their responses. And that's the difference really. Rather than just killing something and showing a person what they have, these cases were very deliberate.

And the key question then is, what do you think they were trying to do? Well, I think prey sharing is really foundational to the evolution of killer whales, just like it is for us. You know, it's probably the reason that they've evolved to be so clever and they're very social animals.

And so I think pre-sharing is just a way to practice learned cultural behavior for killer whales, while also engaging in interspecies exploration. In this case, investigating the capacity of humans to engage in reciprocity. Is it almost like a film, like aliens coming to Earth and offering us something instead of turning up with guns? Yeah.

You know, it's a really good way to make that comparison because we are species of completely different biomes and we're both very advanced in our cognitive abilities. Yeah, perhaps us being on the water is very alien to killer whales and these cases may represent

instances of them trying to investigate more about who we are. Killer whales and people have been known to form relationships in the wild. An example of that is whaling in Australia about 100 years ago, where killer whales would lead whalers to whales.

People would kill them and then let the killer whales feed on the tongues before hauling the rest of the carcass back to shore. And this relationship went on for decades. So interactions could result in relationship forming if there were benefits to both parties. So do you think this changes how we view killer whales? Yes.

It definitely does. A lot of people realize that killer whales are very evolved to begin with, but this really spells it out and provides just another example of exactly how alike we are in some cases. Marine biologist Jared Towers. ♪

And that's all from us for now, but there'll be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk. You can also find us on X at BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod.

This edition was mixed by Davith Evans and the producers were Stephanie Prentice and Muzaffar Shakir. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Alex Ritson. Until next time, goodbye.